Is my girlfriend gaslighting me? (Edit: No, she is not gaslighting me, but may have some other issues.)
Today, before taking an Uber home, she sent me a text wanting me to be downstairs on the street to greet her as the Uber arrives. I read it and told her that yes, I'll be there. I didn't notice any further text because I was in the middle of something.
Later, I hear the door opening and went to our door to greet her, she was furious and refused to talk to me. I realized I forgot to turn my phone back from silent mode after work today. I told her that it is my bad, she still refused to talk to me. At this point, things are still normal for our relationship, she would usually become willing to talk after a while.
I usually go to sleep at 22:30 and she knows, so I thought we'd sort things out tomorrow and went to bed. I woke up in the middle of the night (later I found out it was 1a.m.) to her standing next to my bed (we sleep in separate bedrooms), and she began asking a series of pointed questions: "What would you do if you found out that I was gone?", "What would you do if the CCTV on our street is broken by chance?", "What would you tell my mother if I went missing?", "If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?"
You know, the usual. I thought she's just angry at me still and wanted to vent, so I went along with her for the time being: "I'd be very worried and look for you everywhere", "I'd sue the city", "I'd tell your mother exactly what happened and say I'm sorry", and "I'd kill the guy who kidnapped you".
She grumbled and asked a few follow-up questions, like "if you're planning to kill the guy, what would you do with our cat?" But at this point, I think she's finding it difficult to stay angry at me. I tell her again that I'm sorry I missed her text, and that next time this happens, she should just call me to make sure I see her text, but she left soon after without acknowledging my apology.
I know I'm in the wrong for missing her text. Not trying to argue otherwise. My question is, am I really responsible if someone kidnaps her between getting off the Uber and getting into our apartment complex? Is she trying to guilt trip me into thinking her anger is justified or am I really a horrible, kidnap-facilitating bad person for missing a few texts?
Edit for context: we live in a pretty safe city that ranks top 10 in the world on low crime rate. Also, thank you all for educating me on what gaslighting actually means. It was 2 in the morning when I posted this, I did not have the energy to find the answer myself.
I don't think it's gaslighting. Gaslighting is manipulating someone into questioning their perception of reality. This is being angry at someone.
I can't really relate. Is it really that dangerous where you live? We probably live in different countries but I don't have CCTV in the residential area where I live. And usually in the summer, it's still bright enough at 10pm an people are still around and it's safe enough for women to walk home alone. At least in most places.
It's pretty safe where we live afaik, also CCTV is everywhere here especially in and around the big cities.
So, London?
I get that you're trying to get more info to help OP out better, but I think that it's better to drop this "where are you from?" talk. Privacy-wise it's rather problematic, you know? [Sorry for the uncalled advice.]
Lmao it was a joke because London is known for their extremely extensive CCTV network
Then I derped. My bad!
Asking someone their country of residence is privacy intruding? Lol
In the strictest sense perhaps, but I dont think a criminal could make something of the knowledge that I am from Germany.
As a wise man once said, "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't after you." Oh wait, that was Kurt Cobain, not a wise man.
Jokes aside, don't assume that a piece of info about someone else is fine to share, because it is for you. OP likely has their reasons and that's to be respected. (NB: this is coming from someone who doesn't mind even sharing their city online.)
If you were really from Germany, you'd never have given that much personal information up voluntarily!
Eh, at best you could create a shadow profile of me. I scrubbed the internet of my actual identity years ago, but you could probably piece together a semi accurate john doe of me from various bits of information I shared on here over the time.
U ain't wrong...
While info is useful, it ain't worth breaking opsec for it
OP gave some clues, though. I think the comment with "London" was meant to be a joke. But it's true that this kind of surveillance is common in Britain, some parts of Asia and some random big cities. And OP knows how to write the time of the day properly, so they're certainly not from the USA. š
Haha, our city has a much lower crim rate than London actually.
Yeah, sometimes perceived reality and the real reality are two things. And there are places where you can't walk on the streets as a woman. I'm not sure if it's about fear in your case. Or just because you broke your promise but there isn't any fear involved.
Anyways, in relationships general advice is to talk to each other. Ask her what's bothering her. Maybe it's a pretend reason and there is something deeper that's bothering her. Maybe this was the proper reason. Maybe she's a resentful person. Maybe she just had a bad day.
Unless it happens regularly or there are other factors to it, I wouldn't necessarily attribute it to malice or be a manipulation strategy...
This is a pretty massive red flag right here, IMO. I wouldn't stick around any person that asks this question. If a person is kidnapped there are like a million other steps you can take that lead to the kidnapper rotting in jail and the victim's SO not being put in jail for murder.
I hope she (out of anger) autofilled āthe worst thing I can think ofā as an attempt to match for āone of the worst things I can think of happening to meā.
A desire for extrajudicial revenge is something Iād expect from really immature people. (In contexts uncommon for me, perhaps Iād expect it from those whoāve been wronged by the justice system, or for those whom the system doesnāt seem to play a productive role in their environment.)
Wonder if thereās a test of sorts that could reveal more here - if someone insults her, would she expect him to ādefend her honorā at risk the personal safety of them both?
and that's missing the fact that the kidnapper usually doesn't leave a business card behind, so he wouldn't have clue who to kill š
Eh.
It could be just her going thru possible consequences out loud. Maybe intentionally to drive the point home about what could have happened.
Like, this is some real shit that women do always need to be aware of, and men just never fucking think about, because we don't have to.
OP could live in a super sketch area where this level of vigilance is warranted and this shit could be going thru her head.
Like from her POV OP didn't take the risk serious enough to meet her, if he's not willing to do that, her mind is running thru where the line is on what he would do. You zero into that by asking big questions. And again, it could be to try and set in the possible consequences.
Like, her wanting to know what level of commitment he has to her safety. I doubt it was extrajudicial executions in her mind, and more Liam Niessons style rescue as a rhetorical device.
For a woman a partner who values their security and safety is important both on an instinctual and sadly still practical level. They have a lot more threats then the average dude will ever think about, especially when young and in the dating stages of life. Even married men sometimes don't learn about it till later when they have kids their responsible for.
... Nah. As a woman, this is not a question I would ever think to ask anyone, regardless of how unsafe I felt. How does agreeing to murder someone AFTER something happens to you help you feel more safe? It doesn't, at all. Besides, she could have called him from the Uber when she didn't see him outside. It's not like they just kick you out of the car immediately.
OP described this behavior as "the usual," which means this is a thing she does regularly. I would say this isn't normal for most people to do regularly. If the location is actually not safe, then the conversation should be centered around "when are we going to move somewhere safer?" rather than "how would you murder someone if they hurt me" and especially getting into the specifics of "what would you do with the cat while doing the murder...?" I think this might be some kind of recurring "daycare" or maladaptive fantasy that keeps playing out in her imagination. There are certainly steps she could take to keep herself safe. But because she doesn't, she feels powerless and then blames OP for her perceived lack of safety. OP cannot be responsible for her safety 24/7. That is an unfair expectation to have of anyone.
I agree with everything you said here except you're read on that question. There's a huge area between expecting your partner to take your personal safety seriously, and expecting your partner to kill for you. One of those is a reasonable ask, the other is a reasonable excuse to leave.
Some questions are hypothetical or even rhetorical
And honestly on a deeper level there are reasons for women to suddenly go down these hypothetical scenarios related to safety, on a fairly regular basis.
There's just too much context and subtlies that we can't know for anyone to give a 100% answer on if a reaction like this is warranted.
Hypothetical and rhetorical questions designed to evoke contemplative but reasoned thought, or absurd hilarities, or a plausible future scenario are one thing.
Its completely different when its an absurd loyalty bullshit test that only has wrong answers.
Answer with loyalty to the point that it endangers your own life?
Ok, status quo.
Answer reasonably, or ask why such ridiculous questions are being asked?
Anger, grief, ammo to use in future arguments.
This scenario was extremely and needlessly combative on the female partner's part.
Even if this person was legitimately traumatized by past or recent events, that does not make her behavior acceptable.
None of that is gaslighting. However, it's a red flag.
Agreed. Sounds like Borderline Personality Disorder. Get her some help, or get far, far away.
No, it doesn't. Nothing here screams fear of abandonment. It screams insecurity, it screams anxiety, it screams mentally unhealthy, but this doesn't say anything that could highlight BPD, or any other disorder.
It absolutely does, and I'm getting the vibe this is personal for you. This is not about you.
It absolutely does not. I'm not sure what you guys aren't reading here, but the very first paragraph is about her wanting HIM to greet her when she arrived home in the Uber.
Being scared of being kidnapped is not fear of abandonment.
Y'all aren't helping him if you're telling him the wrong reasons to do the right thing. That ends up hurting both.
I have first hand personal knowledge of Borderline disorder. You don't know what you're talking about.
Jumping in, I also have a lot of BPD experience (example, a marriage of well over 10 years).
This is very BPD-adjacent. I'm not saying OP's gf has it per se, because there is no way we can know from here, but this is definitely on brand.
If you read between the lines, the social conversation could written as this:
"Heading home, I need support"
"I'll support"
RyanLiu@lemmy.world read through this comment chain, therapy is the answer here.
I'm sure it's been said already, but there is nothing usual about what you described. She sounds unstable and you should reconsider this relationship.
But to be pedantic, nothing about what you described sounds even remotely like gaslighting.
Just to clarify your second statement, gaslighting is when person A tries to convince person B that person B did not see/hear/experience something that person B did in fact see, hear, or experience.
In OPās situation, their girlfriend might be gaslighting OP if she texted āIām getting an Uber home, see you in a bitā and then got mad and insisted she had told OP to meet her at the door.
All that said, I will echo many others in this thread and say that just because it isnāt gaslighting doesnāt mean OP is in a healthy relationship. OP, please insist on relationship counseling at a minimum.
It is absolutely needless, unreasonable guilt tripping, though.
She is emotionally abusing you.
I can't relate as well, as I live in a city where things are really really aafe. But there are places where a women are afraid to walk alone in the dark, even for a few steps. (And even in safe places some people are quite afraid)
I'd be very careful with remote diagnosis. You. might be right, she needs therapy. She might just be afraid, because something bad happened to her some time.
The only way is for OP to have a good talk with her what's bothering her - and then he may come to a conclusion. As of now, there's just not enough information.
Yes, I'm hedging it off her making up a new reason, the cat, to stay angry.
And that he already has a whole sentence of things he knows he has to say.
It's true that the place may be dangerous. However, if it were, (1) you'd think OP would have known that already and not made the mistake of letting her walk in alone, and (2) she didn't have to start with the absurd questioning in the middle of the night. She could have waited for a time when both of them were more mentally available.
I've been in dangerous cities and situations. You either address issues in the moment or if it's no longer an immediate issue, whenever it's a good time. They sleep in separate rooms, yet was standing over him in the kiddle of the night, then once he woke up, she started with an angry guilt trip disguised as fear. That was 100% her punishing him so that he wouldn't ever not make her the priority at all times again.
You are not.
Source: 20 years of a successful marriage.
Your partner has some issues she seems to need to work through. Entertaining her delusions probably won't help her.
Are you ok? Blink twice if you're ok
the usual? what the fuck kind of people have you dated so far that asking a series of gone girl fantasy questions in the middle of the night acting like Kathy Bates from Misery is usual?
I was thinking the same thing.
She asked me to murder someone. You know, couples stuff.
I have dated exactly 1 (one) girl. I am her first relationship as well. Maybe we just don't know what is normal lmao
If there is one lesson I could teach my younger self, it would be to have several low commitment relationships while I was younger to learn what is "normal". Once you start making murder pacts, it's usually too late.
Oh well, 7 years too late for me lmao
Itās never too late to break up. People get divorced with really complicated lives and theyāre both better off. It will only get worse if you stick around. You should consider therapy together, although I think she really needs it on her own. She has to be willing to change her behavior.
I dated in high-school but now I have been single for like 10 years, I feel so lost now it's insane
I wish I had good advice for how to connect with people after the school years, that's just difficult.
Being paralysed by adhd and thus playing video-games all day didn't really help, I'm hoping to land a job soon and meet new people this way
It's not, she's crazy. Like "GTFO and block her ASAP" crazy.
This ain't it. I can smell the batshit from here.
Yeah, this is seriously manipulative. I actually wouldn't consider it gaslighting per se, which is a much more specific thing where a person is trying to make you think you're losing your mind. This is just bog-standard manipulative behavior.
As someone who is in a long-term relationship with a partner who struggled with these kind of issues when we met...
She has to be willing to understand this is a problem, and even if her fears are justified, she needs help, because berating you and being manipulative by asking super loaded questions (especially in the middle of the night, wtf. she needs some work on boundaries, too) is in no way shape or form a normal or healthy aspect of any functioning relationship.
Be ready to accept that sometimes things like manipulative behavior come from things like fears of abandonment. It doesn't make them okay, but it should give us pause and consider that people aren't doing it because they want to hurt us. It took me a while to understand my partner was doing things that pushed me away because she was scared of losing me, because it's totally backwards in my mind. It just means you have to consider the possibility that this isn't because she's selfish, but actually potentially dealing with other kinds of mental health issues. She still needs to work on it, and she still needs help for it, but please have a little compassion.
Be willing to go to counseling with her if you want to try to make it work, but she has to be able to see what she has done, show sincere regret, and want to change. It can take time, and everyone deserves that chance, but only if they're willing to put in the work.
If she's unable or unwilling to accept how hurtful and manipulative what she did was, and that she at the very least needs counseling, then you need to consider ending it.
EDIT: I should be clear that "putting in the work" means up to and including: getting a mental health diagnosis, getting medication, getting a psychiatrist, getting a counselor whose field is focused on helping people with specifically this diagnosis, and then working through their problems.
The bitch is crazy, get rid of her asap
Your girlfriend is an immature child and manipulative.
You can't make somebody like that happy. It won't get better either. You can try reason with her but maturity issue will prevent her from out growing it.
She will need a few more boyfriends if she is ever to to learn why this clown behavior is no good.
Only if you were involved in the kidnapping, like paying them to do it.
She is trying to guilt trip you for missing her text by using emotionally ever the top hyperbole which is not gaslighting. Gaslighting requires intentionally lying about something that did not happen to make you question your own experience.
Reading this I'm not sure I'd fault him even if that were the case.
Still rampant manipulation, though.
Iād say at least on the level of gaslighting
Gaslighting is not a level, just a different technique. It can be done at varying levels of severity.
Agreed itās just a different technique, but Iād suggest some techniques are more objectionable than others- both of these are on about that same tier.
This is absolutely manipulative.
Whether she realizes it or not, refusing to engage or talk about it, except in her own time frame- is not a good sign for a healthy relationship, and when she did decide to talk about it, put you into a compromised position- being unable to think clearly.
The questions sheās asking are meant to elicit fear and massive guilt. Though to be blunt, Iām going to assume thereās no real danger of any of that happening, I assume the neighborhood is fairly safe. Because usually it is.
As for what youād doā¦? Call the cops. Duh. You (probably) donāt have the resources to find any one and kill them, and besides which, if sheās really asking that you do, uhmā¦ dodge that bullet.
Haaaaaaaaaard disagree. People need time to process and self regulate before engaging with things like this. The silent treatment isn't the right play, and neither is stewing in it, not trying to reach an emotionally grounded state, and reapproacing the situation.
A much more healthy response, from either individual, would be to set a timeframe for when they can reengage. Either him saying "clearly you don't want to discuss this now. That's okay. How about the morning?" or her saying the same, essentially. It's healthy to admit that you just do not have the emotional capacity to have a conversation respectfully.
There's a pretty good chance the questions asked were only asked because she was still very emotionally high. The fact that it occurred in the middle of the night, suddenly, after OP being asleep, says that she has probably not been regulating. Not good times to be having emotional discourse. Every person has said weird, gross, or straight up untrue things when they're emotionally charged. Stuff you don't believe or wouldn't act on, and never would have said in a normal state.
None of this is to excuse any of the actions or words said. She clearly has some emotional issues, and needs actual, professional help. I'm just picking at the "refusing to talk" bit. There are healthy ways to refuse to talk, and many benefits to not just butting heads immediately.
Edit for clarity: the only thing I disagree is the bit I quoted. The bit about engaging outside of a timeframe comfortable to you. I feel like some people are thinking I'm defending the GF - to be clear, I am not. Again, I am JUST disagreeing with the bit I directly quoted.
So she gets to unilaterally decide when they talk? including, when the OP is in a vulnerable mental state? I think you're focusing too much on what the GF needs and denying the OP the same you'd give her. The fact that he was sleeping would definitely suggest he's not ready to have the conversation.
I didn't say he couldn't also choose to pick a better time. It's a mutual thing. They both need time to process the new information, get into a more healthy state, and readdress this thing. That can only happen when both say as much.
I'm pretty sure I said as much in the rest of the post, if you want to go back and read the other 80%.
She gave him the silent treatment.
She did not say: "Look, I'm really angry/flustered/sad/whatever right now, please give me some space and we can talk about this later."
She then was just standing there at 1 am at his bed, implying either she'd been standing there for a while (weird) or she woke him up (rude).
The situation as described has nothing in common with two partners who understand themselves and their boundaries well and set aside a time to discuss things in a mutually agreed upon time and place when they both expect to have more emotional bandwidth.
Again, did I say she did things perfectly? Nope. In fact she did them pretty fucking bad. Go back to my first post and read it again, please. I said those things were bad BECAUSE she was doing them.
I only ever had an issue with the person I replied to saying that you have to engage in the conversation, possibly before you're ready. No. That's wrong. You engage with the conversation when BOTH PARTIES feel comfortable.
Both people can be right, or wrong. They both handled it pretty badly. I'd say she probably handled it worse. Again, the ONLY THING I'm commenting on at all is the implication that someone MUST engage with a conversation before they're ready to.
Nuance and reading comprehension are hard.
Edit for clarity: the only thing I disagree with from the original comment I replied to is the bit that I quoted. The bit about engaging outside of a timeframe comfortable to you. I feel like some people are thinking I'm defending the GF - to be clear, I am not. Again, I am JUST disagreeing with the bit I directly quoted.
Abandon ship, my dude.
So, fair warning, I am autistic, but also, I've had several multi year relationships with people of differing similarities to this person, here's my read of this:
This is extremely manipulative and abusive behavior toward you.
You forgot about a text after a hard day of work.
She got angry and refused to speak with you for hours because you missed a text.
And you say this is apparently normal behavior.
That is fucking absurd, to be frank.
Before any of the rest of the story, that alone is bonkers.
Just do the reverse situation in your head. You're out late for some on location work event, text her and ask if she can be there when you get back home. She forgets.
Would you be so angry or disappointed that you would refuse to speak to her for 3 hours, would that be something she would accept as normal behavior from you, and would she be inclined to blame herself and totally accept this punishment from you as appropriate?
The rest of this story is she wakes you up in the middle and questions you with absurd nonsensical questions that are all specifically designed as loyalty tests.
I had a 3 year relationship with a person like this.
She was schizophrenic, massively physically, mentally and emotionally abusive toward me.
I am of course not going to say your partner is schizophrenic based off of this alone, I am just saying that reading your story immediately sent me back into the mindstate and memories of my own.
It is however clear to me that your acceptance of this kind of behavior as normal, up until the middle of the night nonsense questioning, to me this indicates that she is utterly dominating you into total submission, and you think this is normal.
It is not.
Fucking bail out immediately is what I would do.
It is completely absurd to think that she could somehow have been kidnapped in the 30 seconds between getting out of an uber and walking to your door.
If she actually believed she was in real danger of being kidnapped, she almost certainly would have told you why, and would have asked you to evaluate her why and what to do to prevent it.
Shes fucking grooming you when she guilt trips you into saying you'd murder someone on her account in a totally hypothetical situation that she is taking extremely seriously.
She is trying to make you feel extremely guilty for things that 1) are not and would not be your fault if they occured and 2) have almost 0 chance of actually occurring.
Maybe there is a 1% chance she will open up later and tell you, wow ok, i was really on edge last night, here is why: and then recount an actual, unlikely but possible extremely unnerving situation.
Or, she is cheating on you or has done something you would be greatly displeased with if you found out, and this is all a reflection/distraction technique. She felt guilty so she leaped at any chance to make you into the bad guy.
Again, I obviously cannot say with any certainty that is what is actually going on, but I can certainly say that she is a highly manipulative and abusive person if you find it normal for her to just completely give you the silent treatment for hours for an inconsequential error.
If she consistently behaves like this when you make a mistake, then you are being emotionally abused.
Run.
Fucking run, bro.
I'll add to the chorus. No, by definition this isn't gas lighting, but the behaviour is extreme and no less concerning. I'll not try to give amateur psychological diagnosis over the internet like some here are apparently willing to do, but you don't need that to know that she's acting in a really fucked up way.
I wouldn't say you were "in the wrong" for missing her text, I mean, you missed it, it's not like you chose to do that, but I can see why from her perspective it felt temporarily frightening and it made her angry to be put in that situation (I'm assuming she was just frightened and that that's justified where you guys live, because where I am, her request is strange in the first place and getting mad about it not being fulfilled is ludicrous). How she's dealt with those unpleasant, but temporary emotions that had a perfectly reasonable explanation and resulted in no actual harm is unreasonable, unfair and ridiculous.
The questions themselves are as manipulative as they are pointless. "What would you tell my mother?" I hardly think that's a particularly important consideration "she's been kidnapped" probably, since that's what's happened in this scenario, the question is not asked to get an answer, it's asked to maximise guilt because she thinks it's your fault if some psychopath kidnaps her. The subsequent questions likewise are selfish questions to ask because realistic answers are implicitly unacceptable, she just wanted debasement and contrition. If the CCTV is broken then the police, who would be the ones investigating this, would have their investigation compromised, there'd be little you or anyone could do about that hence asking because she wants some kind of super hero saves the princess type of answer or for you to have no answer so she can pounce. She's extracting false or unrealistic promises on purpose as a kind of emotional salve. The worst and most concerning of all is the request that you kill someone for her, this is real life, not John Wick. I can only assume and hope that she doesn't really actually believe you'd do any of this nor really want it and it's just part of this stupid punishment where you've got to promise the moon over and over until she feels you've made an idiot if yourself for long enough. If she really is sincere about that request and wants to bring it up again in any serious capacity that really would be time to leave because the fact that she has a manipulative streak and is now apparently murderous as well raises a lot red flags, but most likely she was never serious to begin with and this will likely not be something that comes up particularly often. This was up to you but frankly I would have stopped the game of make believe at that point and not actually made a promise to kill people on her behalf even if it's all non-specific fantasy, it's not a prospect that should be entertained on any level. The thing about the cat was just funny and honestly would have been kind of sweet if it wasn't for everything that came before. It is evident from the order of questions and the fact that you had answers to everything at that point that she was reaching for a "gotcha" to prove you don't think about things because you're somehow inconsiderate.
This response to an everyday wrinkle in the fabric of life is something to keep an eye on because if she cannot deal with being temporarily made to endure bad feelings on occasion without having to make you pay then this is going to happen to you a lot and the things you're accused of or indirectly implied to be responsible for will be long and absurd. Let her cool off on this specific incident and if after there's been time to reflect, she still brings it up again with the same manipulative and guilt tripping approach I'd suggest to her that maybe it's not working out. If this single incident has shaken her faith in you so badly maybe she could take some responsibility for her own safety since apparently nothing you say will convince her that you'll be of any use in that regard.
My ex-wife would do very much the same thing and more and she was abusive as fuck. If this kind of thing is typical, it's a big red flag.
To answer your specific question, in this example, no she's not gaslighting you. Gaslighting is a special form of lying intent on having you doubting your own reason, judgement, and even memory, in favor of someone else's.
In this case, it sounds like she's afraid of her own neighborhood, and is depending on you to make her feel safe. Were I in your position, I would talk to her about looking for someplace to live she does feel safe.
No, this is abuse. Being scared of where you live doesn't justify abusing your partner. Missing someone's text doesn't justify this kind of behaviour. The silent treatment is abusive and not the way mature adults communicate with their partners. The fact that he calls the attention seeking follow up "the usual" also shows the extent of the problem, especially when it's pretty clear she expects him to provide the "correct" response. This post has so many red flags I thought it was a communist party parade.
Sure all of that is true. But also outside the scope of the direct question.
It's a response to your second paragraph which is "she's not gaslighting you and you should reward her abusive behaviour by moving to a nicer neighborhood".
"She not gaslighting" was the first paragraph.
Looking back I don't see anything I wrote, that says they should move, or anything about abuse at all.
My second paragraph recommended a conversation. One which I'm sure would illuminate more of her thoughts; Possibly exposing inconsistencies in her logic, if she is genuinely being manipulative and abusive.
Or possibly we're both wrong, and reading things that aren't actually written. You've certainly proven a tendency for that with what I've written.
This you?
Gaslighting me in a thread about gaslighting... Brilliant
That is me. Numerous people have called me "The most literal person I know".
I wrote only exactly what I meant.
And literally... Advocating Talking about something, is not advocating Doing that thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder
"Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined emotional abandonment."
Run. She may decide to do the old murder/suicide if she thinks you're going to leave her.
Holy shit you gotta love the Internet with people, based on this one story, thinking it makes sense to warn that she might be planning a murder suicide. Lol wow.
also why does it have 22 upvotes? very scary.
Really? No.
Borderline personality disorder is a special kind of crazy, yes, but it's severe abandonment anxiety at it's core. I hate how much BPD gets thrown around, because it's quite a bit more benign than people understand.
This situation doesn't tell us ANYTHING about any mental disorder she may or may not have.
IT DOES tell us that she is not a healthy individual and he needs to fucking run because we don't want to find out what really is wrong with her.
She wanted him to let her know when he got home so she could meet him at the door. To know he was there. And then punished him for forgetting, in a very irrational way. That is the definition of the fear of abandonment.
No, SHE wanted him to meet HER at the Uber when SHE got home.
can we stop villainizing a mental illness please? this is the most blatant overblown reaction ever.
also, his girlfriend is just batshit. just say that. it's obvious, but you don't need to insult those who suffer just because it's a convenient tool to use as a villain.
BPD sucks all the way around. don't use it as a catch-all for your hatred.
correct take
Motherfucker, Im Borderline myself. I KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I'M TALKING ABOUT.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU, NARCISSUS.
take it easy, dude. don't all caps me because I don't share your views on BPD.
also I love how you say "this is not about you" when literally you made it about you and BPD š and then fabricated some murder suicide plot for some reason.
lol.
So...this makes no sense. If I had to guess, I'd imagine your girlfriend exhibits this kind of strange obsessive behavior inconsistently, has occasional bouts of depression, and is no older than 30. Regardless of whether I'm right (but especially if I am), you should consider whether your girlfriend is suffering from something that requires a psych evaluation and get her one.
I feel like there might be a culture gap here. OP hasn't mentioned where he's from, or what his neighborhood is like. I've lived in places where women do NOT want to be alone at any time, and I suspect many of the commentors here have never experienced a place like that.
It might just be an unhealthy relationship, but depending on context, it might be a very reasonable and understandable reaction.
PS - none of this is gaslighting. OP, do you even know what it means?
Edit: Nvm, OP mentioned they live in a safe city in the comments. Proceed with the traditional calls for breakup!
Asking people online if your partner is gaslighting you is serious concern for your situation, whether her behaviors were actually gaslighting or not. Your intuition is telling you something is wayyyyy off. Also, that you had to ask us and not close friends, family, or her herself is another major red flag. Either you are socially isolated and have no one to ask or you are protecting her reputation because you know that those behaviors would be judged quite poorly by people that care about you.
As someone that has dated something like that before, I know my words will not mean much to you. You will undoubtedly rationalize her behavior as her being justifiably triggered, reacting to childhood trauma, making a good point, cute because that's how she communicates love, etc. Regardless, make a note of what everyone here is telling you. Her behaviors were not acceptable at all. There is no justification for them, and that you said it was the usual is troubling.
The best anyone can do for you now is be a voice of reason and direct you to learn about psychological and emotional abuse so you can see it and decide for yourself. Here are 2 resources that I found helpful when I was in your situation:
Save Your Sanity is a series of videos/podcasts on being in a relationship with difficult people. She has all sorts of topics that are relevant, including how to spot gaslighting.
The other is the book Should I Stay or Should I Go? Surviving a Relationship with a Narcissist by Ramani Durvasula. I like this one in particular because it has a questionnaire in it you can take to help you notice of you're in a toxic relationship. Taking that questionnaire was the catalyst that started my escape. Check it out and be truthful. If she's okay and this was just a unique experience, then there is nothing to worry about and the book will help you confirm that.
I highly recommend that you don't tell you partner you are looking into this. Ask anyone that's been in an abusive relationship. Shoot, make another AskLemmy post asking this. Telling a potential abuser/narcissist/manipulator that you are on to them is a HUGE mistake. Instead, look into it on your own during your free time. If she accidentally catches you, say you ran into this online and it seemed interesting. A healthy partner won't even think about it anymore. If she starts with an interrogation, gets upset, or suddenly becomes the best girlfriend ever, that's manipulation.
Certainly, she will commit more odd and questionable behaviors in the future. I urge you to maintain a secret log of her behaviors so that you can stay sane and notice. Please feel free to reach out. Don't stay isolated. You can make another post, and you can even contact me directly via Matrix (see my profile). Good luck!
everything was already said in this thread, except for one thing: it is pretty normal that the taxi driver waits for the woman to enter the building; she can always ask to make sure he will do that.
so there really isn't factual problem in the scenario that was described.
You're using rationality to defend your behavior instead of connecting emotionally around a fundamentally emotional issue. This doesn't mean that her behavior was justified either, but rationality will only get you so far in solving this problem. Arguably, there's an intimate and emotional reason you're together. If you're both not engaging in protecting and growing that first, then you'll end in a you vs her situation.
Girl is crazy and you're telling him that him being RATIONAL is problematic? Get the fuck out of here.
It's true enough advice, though. She has an emotional problem, not a rational one. She probably knows full well that her response isn't rational, but she still feels the feelings she has. Explaining the rationale and logic she seems to be missing is only going to make her more upset. Versus, instead, figuring out what her actual problem is. Maybe it's a long standing issue, having texts ignored. Maybe she has some past trauma, or something specific happened that day that just set them off.
It's not always about being right or wrong. Her response, we all agree, was a wrong response. It's one that I'd be considering the relationship for. But it's also one to learn from, for all parties. Someone having a problem stemming from an emotion often isn't going to be made better by logicing the situation into submission.
People, it's not this black and white either.
If you think issues in a relationship can be solved with logic/rationality only........ good luck!
Having said that. Yup, she's got issues that go beyond "the usual."
Edit: Downvoted by armchair relationship coaches.
This is not gaslighting, but it is odd.
What would have happened if you had just said "sorry I'm really busy with work today and won't be able to meet you at the drop off"?
If this would cause her to act the same way, then there's something wrong. Maybe she recently did a true crime binge and is feeling insecure about her safety? Or maybe she's showing signs of mental illness. If you guys are in your early 20s, that's when schizophrenia typically shows up, and can definitely have some paranoia to it. But, you'd need to get a professional to diagnose something like that.
If it wouldn't cause her to act like this, then she's probably just pissed you didn't do what you said you would do. Maybe you have a track record of this kind of behavior and she's starting to get tired of it?
Just run.
You might want to X-post to c/relationshipadvice as well. That being said, the only one responsible for kidnapping anyone is the kidnappers. And no one should expect their friends or lover to kill their kidnappers. It would likely get you killed in the attempt. On top of this, these are all hypotheticals.
Someone who is using hypotheticals that they made up in their head against you is more worried about themselves than you.
It is not my place, but this person sounds like someone I wouldnāt even want to be friends with, let alone date. Friends are there to build each other up, not tear them down and add anxiety.
Yeah these sound like tests.
Of course not.
The kidnapper is responsible. Maybe an instigator, too.
But not random persons who could maybe have done random things differently.
The ābe on the street to greet her as her Uber arrivesā is a giant red flag by itself. Itās about her controlling you. You should run, believe me.
Classic coercive control, what used to be called brainwashing. It's emotional abuse.
It sounds like she was concerned about the Uber driver and didn't feel like you didn't make her feel safe. I think it's an overreaction on her part but it's still real feelings.
You can't win those arguments, you just have to stay calm and say that you're sorry for not coming down as she was arriving. Then maybe ask if the driver made her feel uncomfortable or whatever.
She doesn't want answers, just empathy and a feeling that you care about her safety.
speak Faroese.
Speak Icelandic
speak both and slowly devolve into gibberish
Speak Finnish and then slowly devolve into Estonian
My god, the amount of language I have to learn is monumental it seems
Faroese and Icelandic are mutually intelligible so you can cross one off. :)
yes you would be responsible!!!!1!1!! you'd be sent to jail with the same sentence as the kidnapper whether they catch it or not!!!
Of course not. I would brush this off thinking your GF is probably not even 20 years old yet. The situation sounds a bit immature. I would be concerned if she's older than 25 and making that scene though, it sounds like a very large red flag. Now, perhaps she's been through some trauma that would explain the behaviour, if that's the case you may want to consider professional help.
You're probably better off trusting your guts, and the guts of people around you, than what anyone in the internet says about this matter. Including me.
That said: I don't think that she's either gaslighting or guilt tripping you. I think that she's simply feeling insecure.
Totally wrong to have your own life. Youāre not her legal guardian. You do have responsibilities but constant undivided attention is not one of them.
My main question is why are you already sleeping in separate bedrooms at this point?
One of many reasons; people are shift workers and keep different hours and donāt want to disturb each others sleep when alarms go off/they get out of bed.
I worked night shift for a year or two, that is indeed why we started sleeping in separate bedrooms. Right now, our schedule is still a 1-2 hours apart, enough for us to want to sleep in separate bedrooms.
Absolutely wild lmao. I understand how it starts with opposite schedules but damn. My girl clocks in an hour earlier than me but also wakes up at least a couple before me for her morning ritual. I literally don't even hear her alarms at this point. You know I'm getting them cuddles.
Although hard to be encouraging getting them cuddles here -- your tolerance for intolerable behavior from your significant other is beyond what I'd endure. Obviously just seeing a small slice of the relationship, but yeah nah I don't play like that.
After a few relationships my tolerance for bullshit drama is mighty low. Love my chill gal who down to earth and behaves like a reasonable adult.
It's not like we're constantly at odds with each other as well, normally I'd go to her bed, or she'd come to mine for a while before I sleep to "get them cuddles" as you put it.
For sure, you definitely know your relationship better than I do. Keep an eyeball on how much the drama and loyalty tests, etc, pop up tho.
No shade, rooting for ye, all the best š¤
Her standing by your bed and behaving like that is childish and she's demonstrating manipulative behaviour.
She was trying to rattle you. Next time answer ridiculous questions with ridiculous answers
Rekt
Has any of you guys commenting even thought that they live in an overly dangerous place and she was genuinely scared?
Of course, waking him in the middle of the night was over the top and maybe a red flag, but anxiety can do that to you.
Who has CCTV in a residential street, that isn't dangerous to walk through? Nowhere where I live, but I've been to some sketchy parts of Manila for example where my local friends would freak out at the thought of walking home from the corner alone. ("Oh my god, do you have a death wish? You can't let them drop you anywhere that isnt directly your actual door! Someone will kidnap or kill you!")
I think her behaviour was somewhat understandable if she was genuinely scared and felt let down by him because he seemingly didn't care for her safety.
We all act irrational sometimes when we are scared, that doesn't mean everyone has a personality disorder or someone even suggested schizophrenia. Seriously people! Cut others some slack for some irrational emotions every now and then.
OP, tell your girlfriend that you love her and care about her and that you'll make an effort to be more thoughtful of her safety and her fears in the future. Because this just might be it. She felt unsafe and that you didn't care if something happens to her. She probably had these thoughts on a loop in her head since she got home.
I'm generally pretty generous when it comes to realizing I'm hearing one side of the story and that it's always much more complicated.
But, dear God man, if what he says is even remotely true and she was hovering over him while he was sleeping, and then when he awoke she asked if he would murder someone for her, and then what he plans to do with their cat after the murder, that's not just being "genuinely afraid" and acting irrationally when in the middle of being very afraid.
She might be suffering from some anxiety that she needs to address, but let's not play down how disturbing this is...especially because he called it "the usual."
I'll leave the psychological analysis to others but when I'm in a text discussion that needs synchronization (e.g. pick someone up at the train station), I usually respond to incoming texts as soon as I see them, e.g. with "ok", unless I'm driving and the person is expecting me. Even if I'm driving, I'll hear the incoming text buzz the phone, so if I think it needs immediate attention I'll pull over and look at it. So lack of such a text response within a few minutes could indicate "follow up with a voice call".
That's legitimately not gaslighting.
And gaslighting is 100% real thing, but I always think of this Rick and Morty clip now when someone brings it up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFM5E93NOF4
Is she Asian ?
We are both Asian.
Yeah I'm sorry if this is insensitive but a lot of this sounds like common cultural expectations for women from east Asian backgrounds. You guys could probably have a discussion about how you understand gender roles and how her upbringing might have informed her.
Texts are not synchronous communication. If a response/action is needed, a voice call is better suited.
I can't tell if this is a joke post. Assuming that it's not, there's a lot of missing context. If she wanted you to meet her and you got that text, why didn't you? Do you live somewhere that human trafficking is that much a part of daily life that this is an issue? You make comments like a lot of her irrational actions are normal things, which they probably shouldn't be. She wants assurance that you'll track down and murder a trafficking group like Liam Nesson and then switches gears immediately to what about the cat? I hope this is a joke post.
Context: I got the text but that the time, she didn't know when she'd get home so I was waiting on a follow up tesxt with the time she'd be home (again, my bad for not making sure I can hear them), and we live in a pretty safe country, where even robbery is rare.
So you're saying it is pretty irrational for her to be so extremely worried about being kidnapped? Is she a very anxious and nervous person? It sounds like she was dropped off very close to home. Is she one to turn nothing into something like this? From an outside perspective, her reaction seems way out of line.
She's not normally like this, and yes Ubers usually drop people off right at the entrance of our apartment. Aside from Uber, she would also take the bus or train into the city, both of which requre a five minute walk through our neighborhood which she has no problem doing.
Since she's not normally like this, you really need to talk to her to figure out what exactly happened that set off this series of events.
It's probably she was upset that he didn't follow through with what he promised. In her anger she came up with a bunch of hypotheticals to grill him about. The real issue is she thinks he doesn't care enough to meet her where he said he would.
Possibly. Ultimately there needs to be better communication between both of them.
Hopefully
Either she's like the rest of us and sometimes does irrational and dramatic things when angry, or she has an undiagnosed mental health disorder involving paranoia.
Apparently those are the options.
When healthy people are angry they use healthy coping skills to deescalate and then approach the conversation in a calm and rational way. Regardless of whether this is a full-blown mental illness or not, assuming this was really her reaction, something is not okay.
If there's no situational cause for this change in behavior, there's a chance she's experiencing paranoia from an undiagnosed mental health condition. Look up the signs of mania (bipolar disorder), borderline personality disorder, and schizophrenia. If it looks like it might be one of those then you need consult professionals and family because it's not something you're going to be able to help her with on your own with advice from Internet strangers.
Take care of yourself, of she continues to behave abusively you need to get away whether this behavior comes from untreated illness or not.
The way that I interpret it, OP's girlfriend was simply being hyperbolic. I don't think that she's genuinely asking OP to kill her hypothetical kidnappers; specially given that, as OP mentioned, they live in a safe place.
Instead I think that she simply wants to be reassured that OP cares about her and her security. And then started playing around with the "but what about our cat?" thing because come on, if you're thinking on outrageous scenarios, might as well think on them properly!
I'm sorry, can you highlight anything from this story that aligns with the definition of "gaslighting"? I'm sure you looked up the definition and examples before you typed out this post
since op is asking questions like
i'd say she is pretty successful
That is not gaslighting holy shit
Not gaslighting, and from what you seem to describe, doesn't appear to be manipulative either. She just seems to be angry. Not to say that you can't be both angry and manipulative, but I don't see clear intent for her to try to guilt trip or gaslight you.
Gaslighting would be if she lied and said that she sent you a message when in fact she didn't. i.e., lying with the intent to make you question your judgment and perception
Guilt tripping would be if she pressured you into giving her a gift as compensation for ignoring her message. i.e., taking advantage of someone's feelings of guilt to get them to do something for you.
I don't see any lie, and I don't see hee trying to extract anything out of you. Worst case interpretation, she's being a bit petty. Best case interpretation, she's scared of being alone outside.
I noticed your final paragraph, and I would be cautious in general about saying that someone who's trying to convince you that their anger is justified is automatically manipulative. That's kind of just how anger works. People think that their anger is justified. Otherwise they wouldn't be angry. Manipulation occurs when you start to feel like you are being used for their own motives.
Either way, you should probably talk to her about it. It seems like she thinks the issue is more severe than you appear to think, and that is something that should be discussed with her
Standing by your bed while you're asleep and berating you isn't manipulative?
Nah, to needs to leave, now. No sense hanging around to see what this escalates to. Not worth putting in the effort for someone who's demonstrated they need to grow up.
Sleep deprivation is a form of torture.
This is absolutely manipulative.
Yeah this is manipulative as hell he needs to run like hell. Today. Not tomorrow.
What about being overly dramatic in the comments section about someone else's minor spat with his girlfriend. Is that manipulative?
It's definitively manipulative, but people on the internet like to take something like that and then sprint to the conclusion that the person exhibiting the behavior is entirely knowledgeable about what they're doing and is nefariously doing it on purpose in order to control the person and keep them locked in a position of weakness.
A lot of people exhibit behavior like this because they feel scared or upset and don't know how to healthily express or resolve it, or were taught by unhealthy homelife that the behavior is normal, even if it's not. I think people in the comments immediately rushing to leave her and anyone like her behind will either find it hard to maintain a relationship, or should count their lucky stars if they're with someone that is completely healthy and knowledgeable about negative human behaviors and willing (and able) to fix it.
Are you the gf? Do you know if they did? Or will?
Or are you just assuming?
Or are you suggesting that Iām being over dramatic? Cuz, she woke him up in the middle of sleeping at night. Sleep deprivation is absolutely a form of torture, and while itās probably not sleep deprivation (yet) itās absolutely manipulative as fucking hell.
I canāt know if OP is exaggerating or not, or if theyāre going to or not. Yes thatās an assumption on my part.
As related, though, the behaviors described are heavily manipulative.
As related: she decided unilaterally when to have that conversation. And she decided to do it when OP was near-comatose in sleep. An altered state that being roused from does not contribute to reasonable conversation.
Walking away is fine, but it could have (and should have,) waited until the morning.
Now look at what sheās saying is the problem- he missed a text, but also wasnāt waiting to escort her downstairs. Ultimately- if this is legitimate on her part itās āyou donāt care about meā.
Now look at the fears she is expressing- that itās literally unsafe to get dropped at the curb and walk in. While itās certainly possible, the reality is that if itās that unsafe, then asking what heād do- and she jumps straight to killing?!
And the CCTV stuff- which OP has no realistic way of knowing or resolving.
Yeah; no. All of this is meant to put OP on the defensive, in a state that OP is not able to think clearly. As relayed itās straight up manipulation, and if the most vile sort.
Maybe he should file a police report for the torture.
or maybe you could understand why it's a form of torture and understand what I'm trying to say.
Hint: because it put somebody into a vulnerable, easily manipulated state. whether she knew it or not, she was taking advantage of that vulnerable state. she brushed off prior attempts to talk it out, which is fine. But she doesn't get to unilaterally expect that conversation on her timetable. He gets to say 'no, I'm not in a place to talk about this,' too.