Teary-eyed John Oliver begs reluctant voters to back Harris
thedailybeast.com
Summary
In an emotional monologue, John Oliver urged undecided and reluctant voters to support Kamala Harris, emphasizing her policies on Medicare, reproductive rights, and poverty reduction.
Addressing frustrations over the Biden administration’s Gaza policy, he acknowledged the struggle for many voters yet cited voices like Georgia State Rep. Ruwa Romman, who supports Harris despite reservations.
Oliver warned of the lasting consequences of a second Trump term, including potential Supreme Court shifts.
Oliver said voting for Harris would mean the world could laugh at this past week’s photo of an orange, gaping-mouthed Trump in a fluorescent vest and allow Americans to carry on with life without worrying about what he might do next.
Imperfection should not make the undecided voters give up on democracy, how can we have progressive policy when the people who want it don’t vote?
Exactly.
We cannot afford to fall victim to the Nirvana fallacy.
We must work within the system to change the system or we risk being excluded entirely.
Nirvana fallacy, also know as "perfect solution fallacy" is suggesting that no solution is better than an imperfect solution. If I can't have nirvana, I don't want anything.
I see it all the time in online arguments. "Oh, you advocate for housing the homeless? Well then why do you have empty rooms in your house? Just fill it with homeless people." this is an example of the fallacy. It suggests that my solution, "house the homeless" should be discarded because it is not a perfect solution, which would be filling my house up with strangers. The goal is to make me say, "oh, I'm not willing to do that, so we should do nothing instead."
I don't think that's an example. People housing others in their own homes isn't an example of the perfect solution to homelessness. I don't know if we have a name for that fallacy but it's kind of a "put your money where your mouth is" fallacy. If you aren't willing to give up a lot for the solution, you must not really believe it is a problem/solution.
People being against the ACA because it isn't single payer health care is an example of the perfect solution fallacy. Or people being against a $15 minimum wage because it really should be $25 now.
It's a bad faith argument and a strawman. They don't actually think it's reasonable for anyone to do that or think the other person is suggesting that. They are setting a person up as a hypocrite despite that obviously being an insufficient and inefficient solution to the housing crisis.
It's also a false equivalence. The government helping to house people is absolutely not the same as private individuals sharing their homes.
Is this a "fallacy" or is it an "angle"? Probably it is little more than straw-man attack, because you know even homeless people need actual homes not just places to crash, and it is also a form of ad hominem attack that typically targets progressive/social change demands (do you really hear that often the opposite, like "if you hate homeless people that much, why don't you support gassing them?"). I don't know if people call those fallacies these days, I tend to see them as tactical conversational attacks. A fallacy is sth you can easily fool yourself with.
Well, fallacies originally were not meant to fool yourself, but to win argument by any means. So you are describing a fallacy, even if it's not called that
Fallacy means sth in the effect of "cognitive illusion" as in "logical fallacy", not a rhetorical strategy. The difference is the intent of the speaker. A rhetorical strategy can be deceptive, or tactically motivated, a logical fallacy is more like a form of apparent naivete and common paradoxes. When there is intent to deceive and/or win at all costs, there is "prevarication" or "sophistry" instead of "fallacy".
You're right, I mixed up sophistry and fallacy. Better check next time
it does have some qualities of Nirvana fallacy in that it implies my support for a policy is inadequate unless I provide a perfect, personal solution. but thanks for your response.
This may be a mixture of a bunch of different arguments. There is the anti-Nimby argument which calls out Nimbys who want an end to homelessness but vote against the construction of housing for them in their neighbourhoods. “Why don’t you house homeless people in your house?” is a much more extreme, unreasonable, and therefore less efficacious version of that idea.
There is also the more general argument (from the right) that government shouldn’t be in the business of housing the homeless. The above line then proceeds by saying that your unwillingness to invite homeless people into your house is an indication that your solution to the problem is to get other people to solve the problem for you. This may also incorporate the anti-Nimby line by further claiming that what you really want is an “out of sight, out of mind” solution to homelessness.
I misread "being executed entirely".
Oh. Wait.
In the paraphrased words of an old white dude
Don’t judge her against the Almighty, judge her against the alternative.
Alternatively: don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
By moderating our online discussion boards to better weed out posts, comments, replies, etc. from foreign interference and domestic Astroturfing that present themselves as far-left in order to convince people that perfect should be the enemy of better. I swear, nobody comes to the conclusion "Esteemed prosecutor Kamala Harris isn't as bad as convicted felon Donald Trump, but she still has flaws and isn't worthy of my vote in a competition for the most influential job in the world that will certainly come down to one of the two of them" on their own. That idea has to be planted by someone arguing in bad faith, and repeated in many forms for someone to begin to believe it.
Some of us are old enough to have heard the lies decade after decades about preserving democracy while watching it get tossed out the door. Talking about progressive policy is all they've ever done then blame someone else when they end up doing nothing.
The delusion that you have to work within the system to change the system is pure fantasy because the system is operating as designed. And those in power will do everything they can to ensure it continues this way.
I find this point amusing because the people who don’t vote out of protest usually don’t do anything else either. They just sit back and let whatever happens, happen.
I know exactly one person who doesn't vote but does phone canvasing (in primaries mostly) and writes his representatives often. Last I checked even he is voting this election. I've always described him as the most black pilled leftist I know and even he is voting Harris.
Not voting is an act of renouncing your voice and your rights. It's not a protest. It's at best complicity with the status quo, and at worst going to support a candidate that will be far far worse for the issues you are "protesting". You don't get to complain when you don't vote. All you get to do is sit down, shut up, and continue your inaction.
Individual politicians and political parties routinely use count a vote as approval. In that way, if no other, voting does serve to support the existing system.
But, even if you believe there must be revolution and the current system CANNOT be reformed, voting is still harm reduction, unless revolution will happen before the results of the election can influence the system.
I don't think that tracks.
The highest turnout in any US election since 1908 was 62% in 2020, and at no point has a party won an election and been like 'look at all the people who didn't vote, I guess we don't have a mandate to govern'
Parties win elections and govern in power with less than 50% of voters backing them all the time, it's literally the standard. A low turnout will not change the way any party acts once in power.
I never claimed they would use non-voting as a signal for anything, only that they count votes as agreement, not mere tolerance.
I saw an anecdote here the other day on why it is important to vote for Harris even if you disagree with Harris politically.
I'm pretty sure the anecdote is fake but the general story goes:
In 2000, someone attended a rally for Al Gore in Florida. They ended up deciding that the democrats didn't represent their voice. They felt (correctly) that the environment was an important issue and that Gore wasn't going to do enough to save the environment, so they voted green party instead as a way to punish the Dems and make them see the light.
We all know what happened after, but think of what might have been if just a few thousand Floridians voted for Gore instead of... well, anyone else.
You can "what if" and project this election forever, but I think its important to remember that if shockingly few people voted for Al Gore instead of a third-party candidate, or protest voting, the global war on terror probably would never have happened. Maybe the 2008 housing crisis too. We would likely be reaping the benefits of decades of green energy research, instead of just getting started.
Why would that anecdote be fake? Nothing about that is hard to believe, there were likely thousands of Floridians in 2000 that had that exact experience. It's literally why Bush "won."
Specifically because its told from the POV of someone attending a Stevie Wonder rally in Florida. But as far as I can tell Stevie only opened for Gore in Washington State or something.
It doesn't really matter if the story is true or not though. The core truth is the same: your vote matters, don't throw it away. Anyone who tells you your vote doesn't matter or that your voice is unimportant is actively working against you.
Just found this post, seems likely to be the same thing: https://lemmy.world/post/21602581
Different post, same story.
So then why did we get further environmental destruction and more war on terror under Obama? Why was Hillary Clinton, a notorious war hawk set to succeed Obama instead of someone with genuinely progressive positions?
The US has a fascist far right and a far right with gay rights party up for election. And the far right with gay rights party has become more reactionary on issues like immigration and also in many places violently cracked down on peaceful anti-racist protests. It is currently violently cracking down on anti-genocide protests. Maybe there is a chance to reform that party. But this requires a mass uprising against the entrenched party elite. The party elite that has used the fascist far right as a boogeyman threat to not question their power. A threat that they rather accept bringing into power than to provide non-genocide, non-racist, non-exploitative policies.
Hysterical and immature.
Because Al Gore didn't win and because the global war on terror happened and the 2008 housing market collapse happened. Obama might never have been president.
Like, what point are you even trying to make? The world you describe doesn't exist in a timeline where Gore wins.
The amount and percentage of non-voter signals to most politicians that people tacitly approve of the entire system. After all, if they disapproved of something about it, they would've at least bothered to show up and vote, right?
There's no better "the status quo is fine" indicator than not even giving enough of a shit to show up at the polls (or in some cases return a slip of paper through the mail).
In what world is refusing to participate in a system you see as irreparably broken considered condoning its existence?
For the record, I voted for the lesser fascist because a complete redo of our system will be slightly harder under the rule of greater fascists.
In a world where refusal to participate is indistinguishable from being too lazy, complacent, or satisfied to participate, and that is the one we live in.
Do you think politicians are going to go check why you didn't vote? It's basically as if you don't exist to them.
Edit: I find it hilarious that when people disagree with my argument here, they downvote this post to signal that. Why do that? If I'm wrong, I can just look through everyone's viewing history to see all of the people who didn't vote on the post at all instead. 😆
When someone that would normally vote blue goes third party, they are giving their vote to trump. That is practically Jill Stein's while entire purpose.
that is why I tend to submit an invalid vote. I vote for exactly none of them.
calm down, I'm not in the US
Would you be happy for a republican to renounce their vote in protest?
Na, I like to stand up and shout my inaction and why.
"All you get to do is sit down, shut up, and continue your inaction."
So how is that any different from what the centrists will be doing? Seems like the same outcome for the peasants either way, especially if you dont live in a swing or red state.
I thought it was touching where he discussed his worries about using his last opportunity to speak before the election, and that he could be left wondering if there was something else that he could have said to change the outcome if it ends up going bad. I imagine there has to be a good bit of pressure when you have such a large platform.
For a show that points out so many wrongs with our country, it's easy to look at things negatively. But for now, at least, we are able to point out those wrongs and still have a hope we can do something about them. Not even 5 years a citizen, I imagine it could be scary as well that if a re-elected Trump goes for a type of "media reform," Oliver is likely going to be high on the list of people to be looked at.
I hope tomorrow goes well for America. I've been disappointed the last few elections that the comedians have been more critical than the mainstream journalists, but right now, I'm glad we've had them if nothing else, motivating us to still be our best.
Ukraine went and elected one of those TV comedians, and, while imperfect, he's been a pretty inspiring leader over the past few years.
I had him in my mind writing my original comment. I don't know much about him before the war, but he seems to be doing admirable if anyone had concerns at his election.
It's fun to turn back the clock and read old news:
BBC: Ukrainian comedian Volodymyr Zelensky has scored a landslide victory in the country's presidential election. 22 APR 2019
NPR: Comedian Wins Ukrainian Presidency In Landslide 22 APR 2019
Maybe laughter and self-reflection is what the world needs right now. The comedians seem to be picking things up when everyone else is dropping the ball.
Comedian just means empathetic person with enough sadness about the topic to make it funny to make it easier to talk about.
It's why conservative comedians don't often work cause their comedy is not aimed at being relatable but about how much it pisses someone else off.
Living in the US as a person who grew up in Western Europe must be most masochistic way of life possible.
The best way to live in the US is to work at an European company and be send out long term to the US branch, you get European paychecks with the European taxing system and have European health insurance. You can receive your pay to a bank that allows global withdrawal with a miniscule currency transfer fee, for everything else you can use a Visa or MasterCard. Sure, this only works for a couple of months to a couple of years max, but you don't have to deal with so much US bullshit and when shit is about to hit the fan, the company is going to pull you out anyway.
You lost me there, sorry. That's the worst way to live in the US.
Software engineers in the US make like 5x what they do in most of Europe. For that money you can get pretty good health insurance too.
If you're working for an European salary in the US, what's the point even.
Not really. A lot of people have this personal accountability mentality which supposes we all need to man up and deal with our own problems or suffer in silence. Which is all hypocritical and hardly ever do you find the people who espouse these views live up to them. Be it the self made millionaire trust fund baby who got a job at dad's dealership after dropping out when he burned through all his college funds. The drowning in debt college grad who doesn't work in the field they majored in because there wasn't any attractive jobs. The self made man who came up from nothing but now is completely burnt out or swindling people to amass a fortune.
You show me an American who claims they don't take hand outs and work harder then any one else could manage; and I'll show you a self centered prick that got lucky once and sits on their ass the rest of the day consuming conservative media.
That's my major point, though. By and large Americans are lazy self serving jerks who couldn't stop consuming if they were only selling turds. They like to binge after they binge and no amount of alcohol or weed is enough to make them contented.
No we aren't masochists. We are children who want loud orange man to make it so we can have more F150's and we get to play beer pong every single day.
Wtf is this even? How does this address what the other commenter said? Did you just reply to a top comment for visibility?
At the end of that word salad he says something regarding masochism, so I think he actually meant to reply, but his reading comprehension left him hanging so he didn't catch OP was talking about John Oliver (being the Western European living in the US).
(That, or they are just the fevered ramblings of a syphilitic brain. either way, your 'wtf is this even' applies)
Sorry, I commented when it was like 6 points and top of new but whatever.
Let me know if there is something I can explain to you.
I am so ready for this election to be over
“Forever elections” are the new normal, imo.
I fucking hate it too :(
If only Citizens United v. FEC could be overturned, because it's so very obviously terrible😅
Don't worry, once Democrats win 2024 MAGA will just give up forever and stop trying to implement American fascism.
We won't be trapped in a cycle that can only end with the death of the boomers and Gen X or a civil war for the next two decades.
Unfortunately the alt-right disease isn't limited to some arbitrary birth date brackets. It spreads to younger people all the time. You can't just wait it out, you have to fight it, and keep fighting it.
This is true but it does seem more limited. If it was just millennials and zoomers voting in this election the Republican party would lose its power to threaten democracy on a legal ground tomorrow.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/319068/party-identification-in-the-united-states-by-generation/
Of course, if that "something else" is all Libertarians it might create the cyberpunk dystopia but what's the difference between that and the current Republican takeover by the tech billionaires anyways?
Cyberpunk dystopia at least has a good aesthetic...
yep, and Israel will reliquish their hold on both parties, because thats the right thing to do, and they are the most moral country in the world.. And we'll eliminate the electoral college and make sure our politicians can no longer take bribes, especially from foreign governments. Also, we'll jump in with both feet on climate change.
But if it means that I don't have to give a shit about what Donald Trump says or does ever again....
TBF, maybe that is it, as stupid as it sounds...maybe we have to maintain this shitty status quo and only prevent sliding down an unrecoverable hill until the boomers die. The next gen mostly gives me hope. I don't like them and their damn skinbidi toilets, but, for the most part, they are less tolerant of 80's sales tactics and are more likely to doubt and then learn, instead of fallingnfot every dumb thing.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/2015/01/29/from-the-archives-frederick-douglass-on-the-republican-party/
Frederick Douglas on voting at a time when both Parties had shafted Reconstruction.
I suggest watching the entire video from GA State Rep. Ruwa Romman that is embedded in the article. Not so much for her reasoning about why she is voting for Harris, but for her comments of how to accomplish things politically in this country, how it works, how to actually move the country forward bit by bit. It's hard and takes work and time but it can definitely be done, and her thoughts about the Green party, how it doesn't do those things and thus never accomplishes anything.
This sounds like my dad. He's kinda a Republican, but doesn't like Trump, and asserted that Trump would just go away after the last election.
Trump and Trumpism are not going away. If Harris wins, even by a lot, it's only going to validate his follower's fears, if it doesn't start an all-out conflict.
Well, I dont think Trump can survive another loss politically. He basically only survived because he moaned about election fraud and refused to accept the results.
Truth is that, the older he gets, the less likely he'll be able to run and the less convincing his "charisma" will be. I think we already see this in effect today to some degree.
Putting aside all other anxiety, I'm fascinated to see if Republicans will finally flee his sinking ship as he fades to history. A lot of them only support him for survival... They're all spineless in the end.
He's already said he won't run again. He probably physically can't.
It's not a political problem though, he's all but god to so many people. Honestly I don't know what's gonna happen to a void he leaves behind when he passes away.
My impossible hope is that it destroys the Republican party so the Democrats are the conservatives and a new progressive party emerges.
2028 will likely be a Republican rout, at least.
I get your fear, but my optimistic side thinks that trump is special in his ability to self promote to gullible fools. And while the reality denial of trumpism will never completely go away, Republicans will return to some sense of normalcy after he loses his grip.
I don't believe so. Trump has only further enabled them and taught them that what they say has no bearing on votes received.
The video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWZAbKU-JzE
Imagine becoming a citizen only for the US to be destroyed by a shitbag reality tv cunt a few years later. Let’s not let that happen.
The thing is that shouldn't be an option.
It shouldn't be but it is, and it's terrifying.
It being an option is gated behind voter turnout.
I submitted my paperwork as soon as it was clear Trump had lost the last election, and I naturalized the following summer (with no record of that man on my official documents). I live here, this is my home, this is where my chosen family are, this is where I have created my best memories and plotted my best future life. I love speaking to friendly neighbors, being part of a rich and vibrant community of all different flavors and colors of Americans and guests. This will all be destroyed if the orange fart wins. A Trump America is not the fun happy safe place, it will break up these communities, create hate, purposely divide the people that represent this country just for the sole fucking purpose of a few people gaining power, control, and money.
C'mon you lazy people. I already voted by mail almost two weeks ago or three. Do that next time if you're going to be lazy like me. But now go out there and face the consequences of your inaction....bad weather, MAGA idiots, fake electors.....fake date if you are prepared to vote Jan 6th or some other date, etc.
Go now! Vote or we're going to have Trump as president again and he's gonna be crazier than before.
But if I vote today, I get a deal at Krispy Kreme!
(I voted two weeks ago too, but we have to do it in-person here.)
I have friends who will not vote for trump for obvious reasons but not for kamala as well, because they don’t vote for a cop!!!!!! Sad stuff
Are they forgoing voting in down-ballot races as well? Undervoting is a thing, and most electoral shifts start at the local level.
They will vote a random candidate besides the aforementioned 2. Pathetic
so they'll be voting down ballot. excellent good for them. you should encourage this. its not their fault kamala is a horrible candidate. spend more time trying to fix kamala to the point they'll vote for her. it'll be easier on you.
Another interesting question is if they vote for one of their local DA or sheriff candidates or just obtain.
I never vote for soil and water commissioner! They never have a good answer to what happened to Sandy Loam!
Have you tried to explain to them that prosecutors are not cops? Maybe showed them the intro to Law & Order?
I think the first 35 seconds of his "Election 2024: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)" clip are a very strong argument against the Citizens United v. FEC ruling. Same for voting for judges, including marketing at RealCapitalismTM levels in politics is not good, because eventually it will be worth it for sooooo many corporate entities to just pump large portions of the GDP into politics. Nothing can compare with that, so corporations are favored to win, because marketing works. Fatigue is just one of the symptoms that go across the isle, i'm sure.
Great.Fucking.Speech.
I expect sales of that shirt to go through the roof now.
There needs to be a proper primary system. This choosing the candidate months in advance of the convention by some sort of fiat, no discussion of policies that candidate endorses, then having an eleven month campaign is fucking ridiculous.
If nominees have to get up, espouse their willingness or not to commit genocide in the name of middle east oil interests, and then maybe pay a price for that by not being nominated, might have brought all this to a different end. The DNC's certainty that they know what's right for the people that support the Democrats is the reason Trump even got a first term, let alone why this race is a nailbiter.
Their fucking arrogance and complete lack of awareness outside the oligarchic bubble they inhabit needs to have some consequences if Harris doesn't pull their pickles out of the garbage disposal and then perhaps lay back on the brown-child-murder-endorsement thing.
Passions are too high right now; say the same thing after Harris wins and maybe people will hear you. It's like how everyone was on board with freedoms lost during the Bush-era (after 9/11). Years later we wonder wtf happened.
So wait till it's too late and be blamed for being against the obvious issues and path of pain we are on? As if our statements and warnings are what made them true instead of a desperate plea from clearer exterior perspectives?
Cause that makes it seem inevitable and that the oracle Cassandra is not a fluke but a constant of humanity to have the prophetic ignored and hurt for it.
It's already too late, what with it being the first Tuesday in November.
Now that Harris lost, it seems like people are agreeing with you.
crying on cue has its uses
Ugh. It's always so cringe when late night hosts pull this kind of crap. They have literally become a mouthpiece for their corporate interests. That's your entire job! You are a breathing advertisement for Hollywood and big media agencies!
And you expect me to see your actors tears and think, hmm...yeah, they are like real people!
Give me a break.
Isn't john oliver a political satirist? Isn't his whole thing politics?
Who would you have take the role of pleading with people to vote a certain way?
The coastguard, perhaps?
The coastguard is clearly the first line of defense in the battle of hearts and minds......
Hasn't Jon Oliver on more than one occasion fired insults at the company that owns the network he's on?
Are actors capable of crying out of genuine emotion or is that something they lose after being in the business a certain number of years?
maybe he should tell kamala how important it is and to do everything possible to gain voters.
Either Trump will win, or Harris will win. Choose one to help.
Clearly, obviously, Harris stands a better chance of helping Palestinians than does Trump.
harris being better is a low bar and i can't support the same system & people that genocided my ancestors out of existence in this country; especially after claiming to abhor it for decades once the trail of tears footnote/paragraph became standard in american history books.
i don't want to be a party to re-legitimizing genocide as acceptable political collateral damage, so i'm voting third party in a solidly blue state and doing so ensures that my vote could never support trump in any way thanks to the same electoral college that gives trump a chance of winning; i'm using the system against itself and i hope others do the same.
Respectfully, what you wrote doesn't change the binary choice at play:
Trump or Harris will become President no matter what you do.
You could at least help my daughter, my mother, my sister by ensuring the one who supports women's rights gets elected? Who supports LGBTQ+? Who supports climate change initiatives? That's even pretending Harris is equally bad on Gaza or that things couldn't obviously get worse for Palestinians.
Don’t be silly, those things don’t matter because reasons. But the genocide which we can’t directly control in any way? That is the only thing that truly matters.
What's funny is their action here means they're condoning genocide in Ukraine.
Leninists 100% unironically do. Though I'm sure they'll try to convince you that it's not a genocide somehow. Despite supporting it.
They matter, they're also protected by numerous laters in various states. trump won't change that and I have an easier time taking up efforts here to counter anything he does do than I do for those in gaza.
The only person that is at fault is harris for failing to listen to voice of her base; I suppose people like you as well. since apparently emailing and telling harris and your reps to cut it out was too difficult for many of you.
every single one of my identities is targeted by project 2025 and i'm not afraid of it because i benefit from the experience of surviving the aids/hiv crisis in the 1980's. like it is in gaza right now; my government also did little more than make public displays of support while they idly let people die by the thousands back then and that experience has taught me how to recognize that they're doing it again. (it's easy to recognize it this time around since it's literally being done by mostly the same people).
mutual aid was the only thing that helped anyone back then and we'll be going back to doing it again once we enact the few remaining parts of project 2025 that we haven't yet enacted since 1981. your daughter, your mother, your sister, my mother & my husband will not be (and was not) helped by anything trump or harris or any genocider does unless it's by accident and putting faith in them isn't going to help matters since they're clearly hellbent of repeating history.
I'm glad you're willing to throw that all away, but you're also throwing it away for my family, too... So thanks, I guess...?
And for what? To get Trump elected? You do understand mathematically you're supporting Trump's chances, correct?
Let's also not forget that if Harris is complicit in genocide in Gaza, then you're not voting for Harris means you condone and are complicit on Russia's genocide in Ukraine.
Edit: Bernie Sanders says the choice is clear; to vote for Harris despite Gaza.
man you really like tokens. bernie doesn't speak for everyone. hes a great man, and hes 100% correct harris is a better option. but hes not a blungeon you can use to beat people with. she won't get votes from individuals like myself until she commits to stopping a genocide. if she loses thats her fault.
she has known what she has needed to do for at least 6 months. every single one of you absolutely know what she needs to commit to publicly to secure those votes.
you're just unwilling to do it. either because you support what israel is doing or your too panic stricken to pressure harris to do the right thing because you don't know how many voters are for what israel is doing; but you know exactly who you can target if she stays the course and loses. you're disgusting and craven individuals.
i live in a solidly blue state and i'm voting third party. i could never help trump even if i wanted to because of the same electoral college that's helping him win; i'm using the system against itself, as you should do every chance you get.
my ancestors where genocided out of existence in this country so i'm 100% sure that they would agree with me that being party to the same system & people that have a history of repeatedly using genocide as acceptable political collateral damage is a bad idea and anything good that comes from it is an accident.
I hear this a lot but:
I'd argue that driving up the support for Harris in the popular vote is critical. If Trump wins Electorally, it's still rhetorically important to stifle the notion of a mandate by not letting him get 50%.
Blue states have fallen in the past or can shift purple if the line isn't held.
That said, I'm glad you're not in a swing state at least.
Reminder that it was Biden who just recently issued a forceful formal apology to the indigenous people of America. GOP didn't it. Trump mocked it by having a rally on their sacred grounds no less.
it was another public display of the same "shallow understanding" from moderates that MLK jr wrote about; but i think he can be forgiven for it since the native americans in canada and united states seem to have similar understanding.
and the blue states conversion is going to happen at the same rate as democrat's conversion into diet republicans.
Yet for all of MLK's grievances, who ultimately provided the pathway to lawful change in Congress in 1964?
waiting for election to end before taking action to stop a genocide sounds too much like the definition of that timetable MLK jr was referring to and voting for an genocider enabler to help maintain negative peace is something he actively warned against.
moderates have a "shallow understanding" of MLK jr's efforts because americans are indoctrinated against all it of it except for his nonviolence and it's relevance along with my experience is saddening since i'm literally watching history repeat before my eyes as it's enabled by the overwhelming majority who never bothered to reach out past that indoctrination.
All due respect, you didn't answer the question.
Pyrrhic victories are meaningless. In the end, who actually followed through with change?
Obama himself, the first black President, sympathized with you that change never seems to come quickly enough. Partly because people like Trump are so damaging and disruptive to progress. In their absence, we'd be far more free to advance more quickly. Alas, that's just dreaming.
So in the end, it was those liberals in Congress who passed the monumental change. And without question, MLK had more allies among them than he did the Confederate successors in the KKK, obviously.
In the end, some change is better than no change is better than regression through entropy.
So you're ignorant to what you're doing? Are you just acting like a lost kid or do you not realize trump winning will push the world closer to ww3. Stop bitching, honestly you are contributing to a real threat of the end of the world. Hold harris accountable after we defeat the nazis. The good guys shouldnt fight each other before the main threat is gone. Anyone who continues too isnt really a good person. You can die on your hill all you want, but dont drag others onto it.
what will the good guys win if they fight together for a system that doesn't tolerate dissension and has a centuries long history of genocides as acceptable political collateral damage?
Not being killed emtionlessly. Trump will allow the slaughter of people around the world and not just in the country you care about.
that's literally what's happening right now and the people who could put a stop to it immediately, wont unless we vote for them.
No hun, neither are great choices for that fact. But one of them is saying they'll kill everyone, while the other kinda agrees sometimes while pandering to Isreal for whatever reason the people will never know.
So which do you want. The guy who will kill you and many more, or the ex cop who might do something maybe good.
https://psychology-spot.com/basic-laws-of-human-stupidity/?origin=serp_auto
Doing anything else other than voting for Harris in this regard is firmly in the stupid category. Trump would be worse in this regard. You are not only hurting yourself but others as well.
Stupid people really don't like being called stupid, and in my experience, will be stupid harder just to show you.... Something!
Lost cause anyway then. Fuck them.
fun fact: we're more likely to fuck you for not behaving like decent human beings. 🤷 you live here too. next time learn to think less politically and more doing whats morally correct. its far easier and the outcomes tend to be better.
i live in a solidy blue state and voting third party so my vote could never support trump in any way thanks to the same electoral college that's helping trump to win; i'm using the system against itself as you should too whenever you have the chance.
i'm also sure that my ancestors would agree with me that being party to re-legitimizing genocide as acceptable political collateral damage and at the hands of the same system & people that genocided them out of existence in this country is a bad idea.
Wanna guess the number of people that thought that same thing in 2016?
wanna guess how much democrats learned from it in 2016?
Obviously not nearly enough, since you’re literally repeating the same mistake.
there's a meme from a protest sign floating around asking why it's easier to accept that hundreds of millions of people lazy rather than accepting that it's a few 100 people creating the problem.
similarly, harris is one person and her changing her strategy will have a bigger impact than millions of people changing theirs to suit hers before the election and she doesn't even have to mean it:
she could literally just pay lip service the day of the election where it can do the least amount of damage when it comes to moderate voters and that would gain the support of people like me; but she won't
She has to take current strategy, because people like you are not voting, so in order to win she has to rely on votes of people that you don't agree with.
i live in a solidly blue state and voting third party. i couldn't help trump win even if i wanted to because of the same electoral college that's helping him win; i'm using the system against itself and you should too every single chance you get.
You keep saying that, as if the people with more sense who live around you excuse your poor decisionmaking.
I voted third-party out of protest in 2016, in a solidly blue state, and it was one of the dumbest things I've ever done. I'd love to convince you somehow to not repeat the same mistake I did, but I can't say anything that others in this thread haven't already, and you seem very unwilling to listen to any of it.
you can convince me and people like bernie & obama have convinced me several times over the decades.
present a new argument that's divorced from american popular indoctrination or give a new perspective that doesn't originate from american propaganda or; at a minimum; give a stronger argument than "trump is worse".
and i keep saying that because people keep coming up w the same arguments.
Kamala has campaigned to protect the bodily autonomy of women and to protect gay marriage, which are very much at stake in this election.
That should be enough, if you're sincere in only seeking an argument that isn't just "Trump is worse."
That the far left vote is fickle and that it's better to try to cater to Dick and Liz Chaney and hope for the solid neoconservative vote instead??
Yeah, abstain from voting harder. Let's see where that gets ya. If you want to pull the party left, the. Prove to the party that there is a left they can pull to.
Is accepting someone’s support with literally nothing in trade really “catering to” though?
I mean the "trade" is just the implicit alignment of platform, really. Kamala offers stances that are not entirely disagreeable to moderate Republicans who feel more alienated by the neofascist shift the GOP has taken now.
I wish Kamala was further to the left in general, but I can't confidently say she'd gain more leftist votes than she'd lose centrist votes.
i live in a solidly blue state and voting third party. doing so guarantees that i could never help trump thanks to the same electoral college that gives trump a chance at winning; i'm using the system against itself and you should too whenever you have the chance.
also republicans take direct action to work around issues that prevent their base from winning and democrats would benefit by taking similar actions; but don't since leftists platforms drive away campaign donors so it's a self made rock and a hard place for democrats.
Oh, so are you pushing for a Senator or a Representative who can more seriously push the party left?
i left the democrat fold after dadt & doma and the ensuing decades have proved to me that it was the right decision for my circumstances and i made it easy for myself by moving into a solidly blue state where my choices would be drowned out by the voting masses who generally align with my views most of the time.
i will have to make decisions once the democrat's conversion into diet republicans starts to effect their palatability in my state and i'll have an answer to your question at that time.
So you gave up on Democrats over a generation ago and expect them to try courting you as a potential voter now?
Good luck with that.
Edit: and both of the reasons you cite have since been overturned... by Democrats.
i became twice bitten; thrice shy when i let bernie fool me into thinking that democrats could change in 2016 & 2020, so i don't think the democrats could ever successfully court me again; but they could court the millions of their most fervent base to help them win elections instead of driving them away while becoming diet republicans.
So you're literally admitting that your entire narrative is in bad faith.
At least you (finally) admit it.
What are you trying to accomplish by posting this stuff? What are you actually accomplishing by posting this stuff?
experience has taught me that you can't change people's minds on anything and i don't think you can accomplish anything in this system unless you have enough money or sufficient collectivism to affect change.
i'm old enough and am member to enough vulnerable minority groups to have experienced a few forms of enshitification and i'm sharing my experience because i can see it happening to both the lemmyverse and this country; if there's anything that can be accomplished by my efforts it would be the this.
"Trump couldn't possibly win anyway, so I'm going to make a protest vote."
Why does that sound so familiar?
because people will forever fail to see the reasons why we're forced to vote in this manner if they continue to collectively make no attempt to look past their indoctrination.
Wise words. Hopefully you read them.
My my, the display of privilege and ignorance. Especially predictable from an ML domain.
Then you should find someone in a swing state to vote swap with to get Harris a vote where it matters and keep Trump out.
i saw that and i'm wondering how i can leverage it; it's a FANTASTIC idea!
We all know that she needs to do. They have the power.
Instead we're going to end up like the 2016 elections when there were these "Bernie or bust" voters that basically gave away the election to Donald Trump instead of voting for Hillary.
Except this time it'll be over Israel and their genocide.
What's even stupider is Trump would more than likely be worse in this regard.
There's no need for "more than likely" in that sentence.
I was one of those Bernie guys but I learned my lesson after 2016, I voted for sleepy Joe and I already voted for Kamala.
So not only she didnt completely refuse to listen to them, she also repeated lies to their faces, brought Israeli family on the stage to speak about how they feel and refuse electoral Palestinian to speak. And now let Clinton say that Palestinian,” the people of the land”, have no right to exist.
How hard it is to say something along the line:
How hard it is to meet with Muslium or Arab or Palestinian, snd say something to make them trust her?
And then there are the other things that i found fucked up.
Screaming women rights and then letting Clinton, a known predator to endorse and speak in her event.
I don' t get this. Why promise something you are sure you can't commit to? Why desire for a politician to lie to you?? Politicians are already dragged for false promises on things they've actually tried (but failed) to accomplish. But you want them to whisper sweet nothings in your ear about an incredibly politically-complex issue...for what? I don't want her to say it unless she means to do it.
So if her whole campaign was " ignore the genocide trump is bigger threat to the US" I will expect her to do everything in her power including lying because the alternative is worse than a genocide.
I understand your point. But if you're American, will you vote for Harris? Or give away your vote to Trump?
I will most likely either not vote, vote third party or vote harries.
i'm expecting another 2016 too and; just like now; people were telling her campaign that rejecting your most fervent supporters to court voters who equate kamala's relative flawlessness with trump's ineptitude doesn't get you votes.
the one silver lining in this upcoming cloud is that they're using all of my identities to virtue signal as it pertains to project 2025 and; if kamala loses; that will become a failed political wedge strategy and help ensure that it will never be employed again.
when we enact the few remaining parts of project 2025 that we haven't done yet since 1981; mutual aid is going to matter in a similar way that i experienced it during the aid/hiv crisis the last time our gov't did little except make a public show of support while idly sitting by and letting thousands of people die and i hope that the future's younger vulnerability minorities aren't so easily manipulated by those same people who cashed in on ensuring that they're minorities.
Is this also you?
Pick a lane dude.
i left the democratic fold when they did dadt & doma.
i can't tell if you're willfully redirecting.
I was going to bury this lower in the thread but I think this deserves a top line reply.
So let's make this perfectly clear for everyone else: this person would sacrifice the rights of women/people of color/lgbtq+ people, accelerate genocide in Gaza/Ukraine/elsewhere, and completely doom any action on climate change.. because they want lip service on an issue they don't actually care about. Wonder why that is?
No, kamala is willing to sacrifice those rights to commit a genocide. trump will impact almost none of those things without support from congress or full of military dictatorship. get your facts straight. no one did this but the DNC and kamala.
Try telling that to the 18 year old who just died in Texas because Roe was overturned. If you want to try blaming Democrats for Gaza you're responsible for her, Gaza, Ukraine, and any lgbtq folks who die under trump because you decided your moral purity was more important than harm reduction.
And what has biden admin done to resolve it? How will harris be different? That is a congressional/texas issue; not a presidential one. otherwise it would have been prevented by the biden admin. unless you think biden hasnt done anything because he wanted those individuals to die.
learn to properly focus your efforts. if you want an abortion protection down ballot is far more important than harris.
Kamala Harris is not committing a genocide. If you don't vote against Trump, and he wins, don't think any of us will forget what side you're on.
yes, she is. she has known about and abetted a genocide for the last year and has committed to allowing it to continue. you are also culpable since its clear at this point she won't change course. congrats.
oh no, you won't forget I didn't support a genocide? oh dear. i'm horrified. maybe you should direct your anger at yourself first for not pressuring harris as I've been doing, and then harris next for being a monster who has been aiding and supporting a genocide for a year.
How nice it must be to go through life blaming everyone else for your own stupidity and bad decisions
ignorance truly is bliss and i envy you for it.
How much more stupid can one person be? I too would envy those with any semblance of intelligence if I was you.
i envy the intelligent who have the capacity to share their views without resorting to childish behavior; like your insults.
.ml moment
Man I'm so happy we can all agree we can ignore this class of people cause of their place of origin. It makes it so much easier to instantly be right.
Wait were you born on a website?
You are belittling and disregarding anything a group of people say because of an identifiable tag.
You tell me what that looks like.
Respond to their statement not on their appearance. I don't get why people think this is productive discourse. It's lazy segregation.
You’re acting like having an account on a particular instance is an immutable part of your identity that you are born with. It takes less than a minute and zero money to stop associating with idiots and concern trolls.
Also their statement has already been sufficiently responded to, unless you think there’s more to be added?
And you are acting like a basic act of signing up for a site let's you stereotype people without consequence. It takes only you to not only use that identity piece to immediately treat people differently.
And sure. Other people had a conversation. I'm just asking, what you added? Them not being like you doesn't make your response any different or more necessary.
Ignoring .ml is easier than facing the reality that democrats are doing everything they can to throw the freeest election in world history.
Can you expand on what you mean by “the freest election in world history”? Are you saying there has been no voter suppression and disenfranchisement?
It's obviously just not a priority and blaming voters is both lazy and wrong. The Democratic party has shown itself to be a structurally racist institution where subservience to lobbyists is prioritized over victory.
No one asked for any kind of hyberbole from Harris. We simply wanted some kind of a signal that she would be willing to enforce US law (you know, as a prosecutor and as the component of our federal government whose literal job it is to do so) around the use of US arms. We asked for a few minutes on a stages so that we could make the case for why Muslim and Arab voters should stay committed to the Democratic party, and were denied. We could even be afforded lip service by this party, some cheap lies to hold us over, so here we are
There has been nothing gained by this Democratic parties pro-genocide position. But those who are truly to blame for it's maintenance are here. It's the apologists, who blame voters for not accepting the onerous positions in the limited times we get access to political power, who blame those among us who dare try and wield it. Those who defended Harris's position, and argued that you, the voter should be moved to a more moral wrong, rather than the candidate: they own the genocide of the Palestinian people now. Because they demanded we give up our one chance where we have access to power, Election Day, to accept little and less from a broken political system that capitalizes and your willingness to be disappointed.
It's no longer on Harris, dear apologists. This is your genocide now.