Is lemmy.ml turn into authoritarian?
I just realised, I can't post anything on lemmy.ml
So, I checked https://lemmy.ml/modlog, there's a new moderator.
All posts and comments talking about China, Jinping, Russia, and Putin have been deleted and users banned
Coming from Reddit, the very existence of this thread is a breath of fresh air. That there are mod logs at all to be able to document this, that there is a place where it can be posted that is not under control of the mods being criticized, is an enormous improvement over an unaccountable centralized platform.
The other beautiful thing is that if you aren't satisfied with the behavior of mods and admin on one instance, there are literally hundreds of others to choose from. You aren't stuck dealing with bad actors if you want to participate. And if moderation of a particular community upsets the users, they are free to move to or create a similar community on a different instance.
The major downside of this is that it's going to create echo chambers, but that's unavoidable. It's not like this is a new problem. Communities that reject outside ideas outright have existed long before the internet.
[This comment has been deleted by an automated system]
A meme I just saw mentioned Tiananmen Square on lemmy.ml, the comments were an absolute dumpster fire
I think this is bad for Lemmy as a whole, as a community but only due to misunderstanding and generalizations... People are going to equate the "censorship" on the server lemmy.ml as censorship on Lemmy, the platform/software. That is just NOT THE CASE. Please, whenever someone mentions lemmy.ml and its censorship or the likes, be fast to mention that that is a specific lemmy server and the beauty of lemmy is its decentralization and the fact that it is open source. There are plenty of other servers.
I fear that this kind of thing drives people away from Lemmy, when it should not.
Well, the situation is a bit more complex. Admins of this "specific Lemmy Server" are creators and main maintainers of the Lemmy project as such.
So, generalization you are afraid of makes some sense.
I have replied to someone else further down with my opinion on this topic. I think it also fits in a reply to you, so I will just copy paste it here:
You have many good points here. Still, I have a feeling that Lemmy as a platform and as a software is still very coupled with its creators.
Yes, there are other contributors as well. But these guys currently own the official repo and make key decisions. And if you donate to Lemmy you pay a salary to these two guys (afaik, Lemmy is their full-time work these days).
So, for me, it is still rather complicated.
I don't see a problem about their work, just because of their political orientation. And frankly, neither should you.
They develop good software, which is open source and everyone can inspect it. There is nothing wrong about them getting paid for it. Not giving donations to them because of what they believe would be the same as an employer running you through a political evaluation before actually employing you.
Don't get me wrong: there is nothing wrong about not donating (i did not). But not donating, solely because of some ideology a developer of open source Software has (which does not reflect in the code), seems quite stuck up to me.
I guess lemme ask this. If the devs of lemmy were open Nazis, went to rallies, openly promoted it, etc, would you still feel the same way?
What are you asking about? I don't support extremist ideology - be it left or right. Extremism and violence was never beneficial to the political discourse or greater public. So i disagree with those ideologies. I vote on laws and elect people which i believe will keep extremism out of our system.
If it comes to the quality of someones work, private conviction does not matter. Sure, they might let personal beliefs bleed into their work. But there the beauty of Open Source comes into play: I can check it myself and if i don't have the capability to do so, many others do.
So if they are on the far spectrum of something i disagree and i am very greatfull for good quality of work they provide for free, i might still give a small donation. If they are actually extremist, i prefer to let the authorities deal with it. Where i come from the police actually cracks down on this kind of people and they probably are better at doing so than me myself.
Just because there will be people who ask about freedom of speech... Someone way smarter than I said something like: "Your freedom ends where someone else's freedom begins". This should be the base rule to identify extremism. So to stay with NAZIs: A far right person who doesn't want Jewish people owning a store infringes on someone else's freedom. Therefore that person is an extremist, should not be protected by his freedom and authorities should deal with them.
Yes yes, the authorities should deal with them but would you support them? Would you recommend their software if it was good, would you use their products?
Right now I am using their software - so are you. Even though there was again a post about one of the devs. In the very best case those where some rather controversial statements about how the Chinese government treats Uyghurs. I strongly disagree with those statements and am still using lemmy and suggest it to friends. IMO the technical solutions is sound and much better than reddit.
I mean, you didn't answer the question though. My post was literally just two questions and you didn't answer either.
You actually have no guarantee that any given deployment doesn't harvest and sell data. They probably don't, but it's not guaranteed.
The data is public. It doesn’t matter.
Only if it's actually having an effect on the Lemmy project.
From what I've seen, the Lemmy devs recognize that their opinions aren't welcome everywhere, and that Lemmy should not have any biases.
That might still have secondary effects such as in what kind of moderation features they develop and support
Hint: the moderation tools they are choosing to develop are none.
They are intentionally refusing to develop any moderation tools despite current moderation tools not working and it being the biggest issue instance admins are facing.
"Intentionally" is a bit overdramatizing, don't you think?
It's just not as much of a priority, which is still questionable.
It also has the largest worldnews community, which bans you for discussing a literal war in Europe
psssst... check out !worldnews@sh.itjust.works
Fuck these tankies man. I'm as leftist as they come and I HATE what these people are doing to the cause. We want healthcare and equal rights, and these loonies are dragging us all down with their fascination for those horrible fascist regimes (it takes 2 braincells to realize the CCP is 1984 incarnate).
I'm at the same time horrified and fascinated by them. I saw a comment that accused NATO of causing he war to "drag on". When I brought up that Russia could just leave, I got people unironically replying that Ukraine was the aggressor in the war and that it was Ukraine committing genocide and attacks on civilians. I understand that I could be trapped in a western bubble... but really? I didn't bother asking for a source because I'm sure the only source for that misinformation is the Kremlin. What's crazy is that you would think the Russian shills would be spread out trying to infect other communities with disinformation, instead they all flock to this echo chamber apparently, so it seems likely that they genuinely believe this stuff.
They know it's bullshit. The United States in this instance is doing the largely correct thing. However historically that hasn't always been the case. Were usually the ones attacking and destabilizing other countries. South America, Hawaii, the middle east, Korea, Vietnam and on and on. Anyone that opposed US homogene as pushed by wealthy oligarchic fascist throughout American history. Has historically met and unfortunate end.
Realistically in this instance Russia is much closer to what the United States has been historically. Than they are any Ally of leninist regimes. But to leninists. They are the enemy of their enemy and an ally of convenience. Because overall outside of World War II etc. The United States has been the biggest constant enemy to much the rest of the world.
I'm a progressive who thought I was moderate for the longest time because tankie rhetoric on the left. I fully recognize now though that the tankies are a laughable minority. They're just a bunch of loud people on the Internet.
You ironically have a post saying that Muslims are culturally terrorists and all Muslims need to fall in line with French cultural authoritarianism. Totally not tankie behavior, just regular normal, "leftist as they come" behavior, right?
https://lemmy.world/comment/2941761
You sound like another run of the mill racist, bigoted liberal who wants to smear the leftist label by LARP'ing as one for the sole purpose of attacking leftists.
this thread is just you stalking people and copying their comments. can you do me? maybe the one where i enjoy watching mobiks getting blown up in drone videos, that seemed to upset a few tankies
What?
Muslim is not a race, just as Socialism is not a race. The idea that religion deserves special treatment needs to die.
It was always a tankie den. The Lemmy developers are very openly tankies.
They held their heads relatively low during the whole Reddit exodus, but that's about it.
Here are some examples: https://raddle.me/f/lobby/159606/is-lemmy-still-a-tankie-platform-or-are-there-actual
Reading this really troubles me. I don’t like the implication that using lemmy is pushing authoritarian ideology.
If I was born 50 yrs earlier I would literally have been put in the gas chamber. I tick several qualifiers for it.
Yes, it might sound worrisome, but I dont think you are pushing authoritarian ideology by using Lemmy. The code itself is fine. The code is not authoritarian. The server which hosts your account is also not authoritarian.
Lemmy is, right now, the best alternative for a reddit-like platform. It is something created for the users, by the users. By using lemmy, you are not enriching the wallets of the shareholders. By using something like reddit, you provide content and a select few get to buy a new yacht.
Also, plenty of people are contributing code to lemmy. It is no longer just these 2. The code is also Open-Source. Anyone can fork it and create a new version of lemmy, with compatibility with the current version of lemmy. By using lemmy, you are allowing the possibility that, at any time in the future, someone else comes and says "I have some ideas to improve lemmy, let's do this on my own terms", forks it and continues the work without massively spliting the community.
I really enjoyed reading your explanation. Thank you very much.
This calms me down quite a bit. :) have a good day.
I think you mean 80 years. Unless there were genociding gas chambers in 1973 I haven't heard about.
(And I would have been put in one too, just not in 1973.)
Haui@discuss.tchncs.de: >If I was born 50 yrs earlier
FlyingSquid: >I think you mean 80 years
You presume to know his/her age?
Actually, I just misread.
Yeah, that happened to me once too.
OK maybe twice.😋
Hah I'm in that screenshot. I just caught my second ban for suggesting that mass deportation of children might qualify as genocide.
It's infuriating, because if you talk to actual survivors of genocide, they use words like "vigilance" and "never again." Meanwhile, tankies literally just want to gatekeep the word to protect their ability to simp for tyrants.
Mass deportation of children is literally (one of) the dictionary definitions of genocide.
Not if done by Communists. According to tankies.
Not if done by anti-west authoritarian dictatorships. Russia isn't communist.
Power to you. I feel like whenever I say anything trying to inject some form of "genocide is bad" into one of their conversations, I get about 20 comments telling me I'm a shitty person for saying that. Or like, a copy and pasted book that they want me to read and then I'll understand why genocide is "justified."
It's fucked.
So yeah, thanks for your effort, you aren't alone 😅
They don't seem to understand that genocide, as a term, does not exclusively mean a violent purge nor Holocaust. The erasure of a group of people can happen with minimal violence too.
It's hardly surprising though, considering the USSR regularly practiced genocide with "Russification". This wasn't so much the violent kind, but more trying to erase a people's culture and make them assimilate into Russia's.
To tankies, that's not genocide, even though it is erasing a culture to impose your own.
Your removed post does talk about genocide, but it also talks shit about Hexbear users. Which I get, I won't join instances that federate with them, but it's not exactly comporting with their Rule 2 of "Be respectful, especially when disagreeing. Everyone should feel welcome here."
Like to some extent yeah, tankies kind of provoke it because apologia for oppressive regimes actively invading their neighbors is itself offensive, but you're conveniently spinning this to be about genocide rather than the aspect of the comment that would run risks of removal in most communities trying to not foster flame wars. And since you've been banned before, it's hard to believe this isn't your first time doing it.
Obviously a bit thin skinned, but IMO lemmy.ml can do what they want with their moderation. It is not anybody else's decision how they moderate, except of course keeping it legal.
Seems to me almost all those comments are somewhat offensive, for instance calling people tankies, claiming they should go back under their stone, and frequently use the word fuck, as if those are some sort of argument. I'm guessing rule 2 is something about not being rude. Personally I find that perfectly OK not to allow rude comments.
OP should "read the room" and terms better, then maybe they could have a proper debate.
PS:
Rule 2 of lemmy.ml includes: "Be respectful, especially when disagreeing. " Clearly that rule is ignored over and over again by the above user.
I'm shocked the statement that lemmy.ml can moderate as they want is in any way controversial, yet here we are, and this post has about a third downvotes.
Lemmy dot ml is like, one step away from becoming another Lemmygrad.
and I think thats probably by design, Since lemmygrad is defederated from a lot of the better instances, what better way to get back into them than to take over a federated instance.
Especially when the admins and lemmy creators are down with your tankie ideology and support you taking over the instance.
lemmy.ml defederated lemmygrad.com ages ago
I mean, if you're gonna lie about it, you could at least lie in a way thats not provably false. https://defed.xyz/check/lemmy.ml
also, dot ml is one of the lemmies i frequented (well, used to, until the tankies became such a fucking problem), so I can tell you from personal experience that lemmygraders are there, in droves, and posting constantly, from their lemmygrad accounts.
um... but it's listed under blocked instances right here... https://lemmy.ml/instances
Theres literally posts from lemmygrad on the front page of lemmy dot ml local right now right now.
Just use the period. It's so weird you keep saying "dot".
Anyways, notice what I said vs what your post contains:
That's .com. I've never even heard of lemmygrad.com until now. I have heard of .ml though.
Seems .com's no longer up. I guess .ml's just where they migrated to, is my best guess?
They are literally run by the same people and everyone can look and see they are not defederated. Why are you blatantly lying about something that is easily verifiable?
Again, lemmygrad.com is literally on the blocked list, and it's easily verifiable. I did not know that lemmygrad.ml was where it was at now. Sue me ig.
Uh, lemmygrad.com isn't the URL for lemmygrad. It's lemmygrad.ml.
But you already knew that and are being intentionally disingenuous. You should stop lying.
This is also up to them. If the admins are ok to get corresponding consequences - they can do this.
Posts like this posted here from time to time.
And I think the main problem is: the fact that an instance has a very strong political view and even a censorship becomes a big surprise for people using this exact instance.
It looks like an instance and community policies must be somehow better visible.
No it's not, they may walk the line, but if they cross it, the law will ultimately be enforced. So in the long run, a service can only exist if it is kept legal.
I'm not sure what you mean, but yes there are repeated attacks on lemmy.ml, and it's getting tiring, because it always turns out to be very speculative, and not really an issue.
They are moderating according to their own rules. Rule 2: "Be respectful, especially when disagreeing. Everyone should feel welcome here." Clearly the above poster violated this rule over and over.
That's a completely different debate.
That rule is enforced capriciously and randomly. I just caught a rule 2 ban (I'm in the screenshot) for using the word "genocide" in a way they don't like.
Meanwhile, I've reported literally dozens of hexbears for posting their pig shit memes and not a single one got removed. Apparently that's more respectful than wrongthink.
Yeah, so lemmy.ml moderation sucks for you. So what? Go somewhere else.
Lemmy allows you to do exactly that.
Let me get this straight. You defend the moderation by suggesting that most of the removed comments were offensive or rude. But when someone provides a counterexample to that, you tell them to just go somewhere else if they don't like the moderation?
Yeah it's pretty fucking obvious you're not acting in good faith here. You don't see anything wrong with what their mod team does, even if it's to ban dissenting opinions.
This is the only good take I've read on this thread so far. People are mad their opinions, vitriol, and/or FUD aren't tacitly approved by the mods of another instance.
Thank you. I find it sad that so many people don't seem to understand that their right to free speech, is not a right to dictate other people, or force themselves on whatever forum they want.
Yeah the first ban I got was warranted, but this time it was just using the word "genocide" consistently with the UN definition. That's chilling as fuck and goes way beyond simple "stated moderation standards." That's straight up information warfare.
"Don't worry, if you correctly call this a genocide, hexbear will ban you for genocide denial without a hint of irony."
If you were already on thin ice, this shouldn't have really been a surprise. Like most internet dwellers who get banned somewhere you're dressing up your offending comment to make it seem like persecution, but while it's not a heinous comment on its own, but if you have history I can absolutely see a mod not wanting to deal with you trolling the hexbears. And it certainly wasn't just "using the word genocide".
But they are taking away free speech!!! \s
Truly sad to see a majority is down voting this, meaning they believe free speech includes how a lemmy instance is moderated?!
About 30% (just my estimate) of the people here from Reddit had a problem with mods having too much freedom granted to them by Spez. There is an irony that such people would be attracted to a decentralized network where instances have even more freedom to shape their communities, but as you said- it doesn't really matter what people think when anyone can go start their own.
Genuine question, is that 30% a real number with a source?
Just my estimate based on observation. It's been my experience that most of the people on the Fediverse seem to want strong moderation tools, but there's definitley a contingent that would prefer a looser form of moderation (or none at all). The cool thing about the Fediverse is that both can peacefully coexist.
Ya I love this feature of the platform. Some instances can be strict on what content they want to have (e.g. beehaw and exploding-heads) while others can be the libertarian platform of their dreams (e.g. personal instances).
It would be interesting to see some polling on this, but I'm no statistician and wouldn't be able to perform it in a way that wouldn't be bias, nor could I account for that bias. 😔
I prefer looser mod powers
Reddit mods were capricious and drunk with petty power
Always has been.
It's one of the reasons why lemmy never really took off until the great reddit migration despite having a decent software product.
Curious to see how this develops
tankies + fedidrama = classic lemmy
Fascists aren't morally healthy humans. Authoritarians can't cope with social reality, where different people can have different opinions and loyalties and yet support each other. They always seem to end up succumbing to patriarchal cults, where Lenin-Hitler-Mao-Trump gets to do whatever he wants to your sons and your daughters, and you and your working class have no recourse.
Remember children, anything authoritarian (especially when talking about the left) is now "fascist." This totally isn't a maneuver in the right-wing fascist playbook to water down the term "fascist" to push for greater acceptance in the idea of fascism in the general public that we're seeing today.
...Dude. Do you want to, I dunno, read about the purges of loyal communists by Stalin in the 30s and 40s? Can you explain to me how that's significantly different from the Night of Long Knives?
Well obviously one was done by fascists and the other was done by communists.
Comparing two really different ideologies with just one aspect / event and saying they are essentially the same is not really the way to go. Coming from a country that has a history with liberal capitalism, state socialism/communism and fascism I feel like its really unsettling how you are throwing together the different ideologies.
Communism and Fascism are really different in as many aspect as they are similar. Especially because fascism and communism both really vary from the specific context they got to power. Like fascism in austria was different from fascism in germany or communism in china is different than it was in poland.
I you want to talk about how they got to power, well, fascists usually got there by votes, and communists by revolution. It's rare--but not unheard of--for a communist gov't to be voted into power.
But the end results end up being remarkable similar; they're both dictatorial, and both use state-sponsored violence to suppress or eliminate competing political ideology. (I want to be clear that I'm not talking about Marxism specifically; Marx was opposed to the existence of a state. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro, et al. were authoritarian.) As long as you are part of the political in group, you're golden. Once you're out, you're an enemy of the state.
Stalin wasn't a communist. He had the Bolsheviks assassinated. He was an imperialist.
He got into power through the Bolsheviks however. A wolf in sheep's clothing. There was similar with the Nazis in Germany, but I see that more as left wing infighting making them blind to a far right threat.
Nothing in my post is defensive of Stalin, you fucking buffoons.
Dude, you're just as transparent as you are shallow.
You’re acting like this is a right wing play, but the tactic of using fascism as an insult toward left wing parties actually has precedent even within left wing politics. [Before world war 2, even.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_fascism#:~:text=Social%20fascism%20(also%20socio%2Dfascism,dictatorship%20of%20the%20proletariat%20and)
Replying to everyone's comments, comment history stalking, being a tankie, bro, literally go touch grass.
From my experience it was the leftists who started to call everybody and their mother fascist.
So there could be no different outcome from this.
The creators are known to lean towards tankie rhetotic and I‘ve read they chose .ml because of Marx and Lenin before. That rose concerns from the beginning so it‘s hardly surprising a moderator there would do this. It is very concerning nonetheless and threatens to throw the creators‘ work into jeopardy because at that point you might as well use twixxer or whatever it‘s called now.
In typical internet fashion, rather than read these mod logs and decide who was right, I'm just going to say "down with the CCP" a bunch of times there and see if I get banned.
I laughed
The real, cool, interesting content that isn't worthy of deletion at all
Obviously I'm going to post it when relevant, not in reply to beef stroganoff recipes.
Oddly specific. I'd like this to become a new meme please. The beef stroganoffadors will have no idea what's going on.
CCP delenda est
Noticed that majority of tankie and genocide defending users are from lemmy.ml, grad of hexbear.
Lemmy.ml and Grad are the same
I had no idea what a tankie was until I read the comments here.
I can't Ctrl+F on my phone, can you tell me?
People who support fascist governments - specifically, Russia, China, North korea.
They will also rightly say things about how America does bad things too. And that is true. It's ok to admit that.
They, on the other hand, will never admit that Russia or China is ever doing something unethical or wrong.
They have a critical logic mistake they always make:
US bad = not_US good
They're effectively obsessed with America in a negative way, where they have to hate anything the US likes and like anything the US hates. They find themselves defending oppressive regimes and, instead of having a realization, dig in further. All the news about NK being bad is just propaganda, and China isn't doing anything bad to the Uighurs even though they have official government statements on it.
It's just like nationalist patriotism in a way, just the negative of it. One's obsessed with what the US likes, the other is obsessed with what the US dislikes. The US can do no wrong to one, and everything it does is bad to the other. It's an incredibly childish logic.
Great nuanced definition you provided to ignorant people who are looking to learn. You totally don't have an agenda here.
Thanks for your nuanced take, @KillAllPoorPeople
Your own comment above basically supports the definition of tankie. Specifically, this:
I would take issue with the single word 'fascist' that @figaro@lemdro.id is using, as the government doesn't need to be full-on fascist to it qualify for tankies to defend it. It only needs to be illiberal with a socialist legacy or nominally left-leaning government. So the definition is more broad than what figaro defines. But all the elements of Figaro's defintion are literally there in your own linked Wikipedia article.
I'm sure you're above board. It's literally the definition of Tankie.
Just read the Wikipedia page. Don't listen to people pushing their Joseph McCarthy-"esque" views.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
Tankies literally are history revisionists. There is no justification for the Cultural Revolution or Stalinism, even in the face of Western hegemony.
-esque
I am all for a temporary defederation.
.world has power. It has the people and the content. Flexing a little in support of human rights is 100% a good thing.
This is great news. It's their way if encouraging you to swap instances! You shouldn't stay on the main popular instance, it defeats the entire point of decentralization.
Never thought the official lemmy instance itself would have to be part of a temporary defed
As soon as the tankie stuff started coming out, I figured this was the inevitable result
Do you just call everything you don't like "tankie"? Like every post in this thread is you calling everything else "tankie." I don't think you have a good grip on what the word means.
no just the actual tankie stuff
He's not though. Look at his post history. Use your brain.
I'll leave the sad post history stalking to you, seems you've been doing a lot here
If I punch kids, but publicly I am against punching kids, then I don't punch kids!
Dude Dessalines has essays on his github where he thinks gulags were a good thing and that the holodomor was fake.
The creator kept a low profile during the reddit emigration. And since there were posts and comments about China, CCP and Jinping too. I thought it will be fine 👀
He brought in Hexbear in an attempt to silence the criticism towards China, but they quickly defederated themselves--So now I suppose he's just banning things outright.
Their "anti-Orientalism" (read as pro-tankie) policy has been known for a good while.
Hang on what. Could you expand on this?
Sure, there was a post back in June posted in !worldnews@lemmy.ml about a dam in Ukraine being destroyed. Obviously a contentious topic. There were several threads speaking poorly of Russia and its administration, many such threads were deleted and users banned, with "Orientalism" typically cited as the reason in the modlog.
It's the admins' right to dictate what is or isn't acceptable. Generally they are hands off on most topics, but Anti-Russia, anti-China sentiment is looked down upon by admins and often removed/banned within lemmy.ml. Just saying that this choice of new moderator doesn't change their moderation philosophy, it only complements it.
That's a weird description to give it in the mod log.
Anyway it's fairly obvious to anyone who isn't a tankie that their leadership bans dissent and wrongthink. Imagine if places banned you for calling someone a lib like .ml folks love to.
Ofcourse it's a Makima pfp
Yeah, it's hard to come up with a more tone-deaf or ironic character to pick.
::: spoiler Chainsaw Man manga spoilers Literally the control devil in a world where the entire population can forget tragic events if the correct creatures are permanently killed. :::
I was initially sus of lemmy.ml since they defederated from nsfw instances
Go to !worldnews@lemmy.world for less censorship
Meanwhile dbzer0 is still federated to Hexbear, despite having a strict "no tankie" policy.
OOTL what are tankies?
Someone who's so anti America, whether justified or not, that they make the mistake of thinking anything the US likes is bad and anything it dislikes is good. Hence, its rivals can do no wrong.
communist because u want a commune = communist
communist because u want tanks and gulag = tankie
Red Fascists, basically.
They only want authoritarianism and violence. Check out meanwhileongrad for examples of their extremism, which is fully supported by the developers of lemmy.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
The problem is that lemmy.ml is the front page of the lemmy project, and I knew that dessalines are politically leftist.
Since reddit emigration to lemmy, the guy keeping a low profile and there were posts and comments about China, CCP and Jinping but they were not deleted. And there are c/technology and c/privacy communities on lemmy.ml, someone might post high-tech surveillance over activists or Uyghurs.
And this move doesn't look good for the lemmy project itself.
Created my first account on Lemmy there before I know what the admins were like.
Just deleted that account.
The Lemmy devs are tankies so of course the instance the devs run is gonna follow tankie ideology
It didn't immediately click with me when I joined that ML meant Marxist Leninist even I used to be one.
Well it technically means Malaysia, which is pretty funny given they're a Muslim monarchy.
Malaysia is .my
I've been lied to
So .ml is Mali which isn't as funny because they're a junta
Reality is disappointing
What’s the problem here?
All the stuff is listed as rule 1 and rule 2 and they seem to fit the description even without the helpful context.
There’s one ban evasion in there too.
Sounds like the Marxist mod is doing a good job.
A Marxist is the only thing that can defeat a Tankie.
Ladies and gentlemen, the CIA!
give it up for our brave intelligence assets risking their time to implement all of the ideas presented in the Simple Field Sabotage Manual!
They'll be here all week, so make sure to come on back for the floor show tonight, i hear they have a real ripper planned ba-dum-tiss!
Seriously folks, enjoy your meals, tip your servers and stick around for the rest of the night.
Take it away boys!
In my country we have antifa for antifascists. Are you here some kind of anti-tankies? Because I see far, far more posts about antitankies fighting supposed tankies than I see people fighting fascists.
Tankies wpuld literally support the reincarnation of hitler if he said "america bad" they worship genocidal dictators on the sole grounds they oppose America. They hold literally no leftists values. They just like authority
Thing is, I've never seen a tankie. I've already talked to many fascists here on lemmy though.
Depends on what subs/instances you frequent. Since the reddit migration brought a lot of liberals and centrists to lemmy, many of the tankie types have been drowned out by sheer numbers and have retreated to hexbear and lemmygrad etc.
However, there's also a decent number of fasicsts and neocons who came from reddit and are all over exploding heads, shitjustworks etc
I don't really see those users much because I don't frequent their spaces. I tend to be in more leftist spaces so I see more tankies.
And of course there was that one disastrous week or so where we gave federation with hexbear a chance and they just flung tankie shit everywhere.
Again, that's anti-tankie memes I see every week. Not tankie ones. It's the anti-tankies who are very active, not the tankies.
They're active in comments, but they're also a small minority
Source?
"Believe me, bro"
Source: Hexbear, Lemmygrad and Lemm.ml
In the US, antifa vs. fascists is the actual conflict bubbling up in real life. Only online do people care about tankies. They're a test for moderation and decentralization so people can keep them from being disruptive, not a real concern for freedom of expression. Critical support for Russia's invasion (or disruption of support for Ukraine) is way more likely to come from the alt-right fascists than pseudo-left online tankies.
That's because we're on .world and the main tankie instances are blocked. OP is talking about leaks into other instances. It's a bad faith argument. Fuck tankies.
Tankies are more of a problem on Lemmy than fascists.
I guess you're half a fascist.
oh yeah? Well you're a terrorist, so there, take that!
it's probably because most instances have defederated with 'tankie' instances like lemmygrad or hexbear, so all you really see is ragebait screenshots of tankies saying stupid things. although most of these posts seem to be coming from one user
The only posts I see about tankies are from anti-tankies.
Yes, like they say, because the tankie posts are blocked.
Is it really that difficult to understand?
The why is there so much anti-tankie propaganda? Like so much more than antifascist propaganda?
Tankies and fascists are just as bad. What are you trying to suggest?
I'm not suggesting anything. I'm pointing out a bias: eventhough fascism is rampant in the west, to the point there was a coop attempt in the US a few years ago. Yet people on lemmy are very hard fighting tankies where ever they can find them, even baiting with anti-tankie memes on a very regular basis.
Tankies are not treated like fascists. There is a war waged against them on lemmy eventhough tankies don't exist in the west.
Tankies don't exist in the west because, as it was said, tankies and fascists are the same kind of extremists, but in the west we have fascists already. You don't have both tankies and fascists in the same place.
So here we are, with western people on the hunt against tankies. To me they are fascists waging a cultural war on social media.
Because people aren't familiar with them and need to be made aware of what they really are. Too many people don't see the damage these trolls cause because they get blocked and only see the complaints and I'm realizing that defederation has worked in their favor. If anyone actually read the shit they post they would realize they are conservatives trying to make the left look like psychopaths. They appropriate LGBT and other social justice causes in order to attempt to infiltrate the left and rot it from within. Also, they use liberal as a slur.
Because like all true "moderates/liberals" they love attacking the left.
That's mostly because pseudo intellectual "leftist" tankies are almost exclusively found online. There's no real presence irl
These aren't leftists. They're trolls.
Agreed.
Tankies ARE fascists! Like all communists.
So Trump is communist? Since when?
Us VS them totalitarian mentality. Doesn't matter how you call these fucks, they all are the same.
Not all fascists are communist, but they say all communists are fascist
What does this even mean LMFAO
They're using "fascist" when they mean "authoritarian" or "totalitarian".
In all fairness, there's very little difference. Communism isn't supposed to be authoritarian, but paint enough murals of someone and see what that does to their ego.
Yet, but specifying this, you focus the discussion on the flaws of the left, rather than the actual fascists who are training, arming, and preparing coops in the western world, like they did in the US not so long ago.
Yet here we are talking about how communists are also fascists...
They ARE actual fascists, that's the thing.
Lemmy seems to have drifted to the fringes of the spectrum politically over time.
"Cake day: July 27th, 2023"
I never had a reddit account but joined lemmy when I heard the commotion and liked what I saw. Although I've never had a reddit account, I have lurked there, and you and many others here remind me of the typical reddit users who basically think the left begins and ends with the US democratic party and anything outside of that is "fringe".
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Except I can look at your profile and see your first comments were four months ago no matter what you did on your profile in that specific instance to set your cake day.
My lemmy.ml account is meanwhile 3 years old without shenanigans.
It's not becoming. If anything, Lemmy became more milquetoast, Reddit liberal with the boom in .world accounts from the Reddit migration.
Not dissimilar to what happened with Reddit after the Digg migration where more "centrists" popped up and /r/conservative eventually grew, though Reddit was never leftist, just liberal with some right libertarian.
Correlation is not necessarily causation. A platform getting popular means people holding more mainstream opinions getting into the space, a lot of whom get offended when confronted with the unfamiliar. Now, when it comes to nazis, fuck them, they can get the fuck out with their hateful ideology, but I don't see why people are so strongly opposed to communists other than buying into propaganda vilifying them.
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Except the fervent "anti-tankie" movement here is quick to label anyone to the left of a US democrat as "tankie" and is really aggressive about wanting to defederate from any instance they think leans in that direction.
I find it incredibly annoying. As you implicitly point out, calling everyone to the left a tankie is a great way to dilute the meaning of the word.
Someone who defends Russia for their actions in the Ukraine War and says the US/West or Ukraine is to blame deserves to be relentlessly derided. But communism in itself is hardly focused on something like that. It's just a subset of individuals who we should all be calling out.
You remind me of typical reddit users who think their echo chamber is the norm
Not sure how I reminded you of that because I don't think leftist thought is the norm at all. I welcome opposing thought, I just don't care for mindless spam of "tankies", which has been so broadly applied as to become a meaningless label. These reddit types swarm in and demand instances defederate in order to cultivate their preferred echo chamber.
Lemmy was always on the fringe. The founders are literal hardcore unironic "China did nothing wrong" communist tankies.
Is this a mod or modteam of a few communities, or is it a global mod outside of community mods?
I'm not shure how to read the modlog.
Currently only on world news lemmy.ml
I unsubscribed from world news on lemmy.ml as soon as I heard about them being tankies. Lemmy.world has the same community with mostly the same posts anyway.
I mean this really upsetting since they have c/technology and c/privacy communities. Someone might post something like high-tech surveillance of actvtists or Uyghurs
There's a reason I don't mod any communities on that instance. I don't understand why other people would either.
Too bad It's impossibe too see wich mod is doing what.
It could be a general lemmy.ml policy, it could allso just be that the first worldnews mod is opiniated , and chose his own modteam for worldnews.
Can't users see which moderator/admin removed content in the modlog?
It just says mod/admin on lemmy.ml , on kbin you can see the mod-username.
So what's the problem? It's a ban-happy three-person mod team shaping a community. There are other communities with the same explicit subject. When a community's mods move it in a direction you don't like, you join or make a different one, and the nature of Lemmy means they haven't even camped an important community name.
It's not even a particularly tankie sub, there're posts calling Russia warmongers still up and at +82. Seems like most of the removals were posts trying to pick fights. And while tankie bashing is often fun and warranted, it's not really extreme censorship to say that's breaking a rule saying "everyone should feel welcome here".
This way, I just found out I've been banned on lemmy.ml for this comment which surely is snarky, and technically disrespectful. They did not ban Krause (parent comment). So I guess spreading lies is fine as long as you do it "respectfully". Speaking up to that gets you banned.
Yea, that's just a proper response to the parent post. Now I agree that lemmy.ml is an instance to avoid.
My ban shown on the screenshot is a site ban
Oh fuck thats on lemmy, i thought it was reddit.
We gotta fix that, of course when a discussion gets out of control/racist we ought to lock it, maybe a warning and disclaimer. but i see no justification for fully removing these.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali%E2%80%93Russia_relations
Which specific communities on lemmy.ml are you referring to?
Sorry to say that it always was authoritarian. Lemmy was created for authoritarian tankies and bigots to spout their hatred.
Originally written by EnglishMobster@lemmy.world
See their post announcing Lemmy: https://www.reddit.com/r/communism/comments/cqgztr/fuck_the_white_supremacist_reddit_admins_want_me/
https://web.archive.org/web/20230626055233/https://old.reddit.com/r/communism/comments/cqgztr/fuck_the_white_supremacist_reddit_admins_want_me/
The instance that post mentions at the end became Lemmygrad. Lemmy.ml and Lemmygrad are the same people, and the creators of Lemmy hosted Lemmygrad (and are thus admins there).
This was their first post announcing Lemmy as a real thing you could go use. (It's also why a good chunk of the Threadiverse is absolutely infested with tankies.)
Feel free to check out meanwhileongrad for countless examples of this hateful content--fully encouraged and even repeated by the developers of lemmy themselves.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
I'm not surprise by this. Seeing how Lemmy has a hard coded wordfilter specifically to discourage "right-wingers" from using it. They did remove it. But still, it's not a good look.
From the first link:
So basically some developers working on a pet project took a shortcut at a time when other features were being prioritized. Let's not make this particular item out to be more than it is. I think it serves the conversation better to focus on what the post is about which is widespread bans on certain content.
This part is a lie. There are no good mod tools, only buggy non-functional mod tools.
The true scandal in all of this 😁
Okay. Why didn't they say that in first place? Why say, "because we dont want to make it easy for right-wingers to use Lemmy."? It's like they edited the comment to make them and Lemmy look better.
I'm not saying their original statement wasn't what they meant when they said it. My only point is that hard coding things is a common development shortcut. Everyone knows that it's bad practice, but when you're developing software for basically your own use it doesn't really matter.
Not only that, but Lemmy is open source. So anyone that is so inclined could remove the filter on their own instance if they really wanted to.
My opinion might change if I saw the list of banned words and it contained things other than common curse words and slurs, or only included slurs for one group. But without that, this just seems like a development decision in spite of the poor reasoning behind why they implemented it in the first place.
They hardcoded it because there were no mod tools back then, and the repo was basically lemmy.ml.
I don't think we should look at this anymore.
They did once. They totally not going to do something like it again. /s
Beauty of FOSS is anybody can just remove it.
If someone removes it.
EDIT Just don't do it in the first place. So some third party don't have to remove the shit from it.
But they're not doing it. You're just freaking out because they could, hypothetically do it. And then you're getting angry because your hypothetical admins - who are in your head - are doing it, which you MADE them do - because, again, this is all a scenario in your head.
How is it "not a good look" to not want bigoted scum like yourself to use the platform they developed?
ooo yeah such a bad look when we can't say slurs, that is what freeze peach is all about!! Not a very welcoming environment for cishet white dudes, the main characters of the world
To be clear, I agree with lemmy.ml on this, but I'm not interested in arguing that stance.
Instead, I think the more important piece of this is that this just further validates the fact that people should be using smaller instances. A more diverse set of Lemmy instances allows defederation to be used more freely as an actual moderation tool.
Someone who posts something an admin on another instance dislikes may see themselves banned from appearing on that instance, which when you have just two or three large instances serving all the content, is an effective shadowban on 1/3rd of the platform. More smaller instances minimizes the impact of defederation, banning, etc.
Anyways, stop only using lemmy.ml, lemmy.world, kbin.social, and lemmy.ee. It's fine to start out there, but find a niche and an instance that fits that niche, then move over there. If you're making a community, consider putting it on a smaller niche instance that would more specifically fit your content and federating it to the bigger instances manually.
We're all power users in here, so it's not as if it's a big deal to move, though apparently 0.19 will have some tooling to assist in that.
The problem is that smaller communities have less content. Yes, they federate with larger communities, but they only pull data every so often. My first fediverse account was on kbin but the fact that it's so difficult to have active conversations there (plus the hard coded invisible porn filter) made migrate to lemmy.
People who crave activity will naturally centralize.
Meanwhile .world removes and bans digital copying posts and communities really hard.
Not exactly a 1:1 situation.
Digital copying posts?
Yes, ctrl+c with ctrl+v. Sometimes called piracy.
Never called piracy by fucking anyone who used the internet in the entire history of the internet.
Do everyone a favor and stop talking, your breath reeks of bullshit.
tldr: went to a to a pro-A community and post anti-A comments and got banned. Why is this so. I just want to populate the small communities on Lemmy.
What do you expect. I imagine, if some pro-commies go to and provoke the pro-Ukraine communities, they'll also easily get banned. What do you expect? READ THE Room. Proceed with caution.
Why would Communists provoke Ukrainian communities? Russia isn't Communist. Russia and China are authoritarian allies of necessity. Not ideology.
No idea, but you'll notice many lemmygrad users defending Russia anyway.
Oh I know that. And I can even tell you why. Even though I don't agree with their reasons I can understand them.
It's not about ideology. Leninism is a toxic irredeemable ideology. But not something they share anymore. It's more an enemy of my enemy thing. The United States has been a toxic destabilizing force throughout the world. Possibly worse than leninist regimes. Overthrowing or assassinating leadership that opposes US oligarch fascist hemoginy. Regardless of ideology. Russia and the US have far more in common ideologically. Which is part of why they're our enemy still. But now an ally of convenience to leninists.
Though I would like to point out that lennonism is a toxic ideology in and of itself. The United States is not and we could and should overthrow the wealthy fascist oligarchs that have been setting our policy for the last hundred years.
In general, to the not so educated or layman, commie=tankie=Russian. I know it is not accurate, but that how it is.
Sick of lemming shenanigans? Come to kbin.social. It's better here, like an internet Jamacia - a land of special people where champions grow. Aussie local instance at kglitch.social.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
It's better here, like an internet Jamacia
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Who cares?
Answer: no one!
Username Czechs out
Looks that way, and who cares?
Those of us who want to freely discuss geopolitics without fear of getting banned care.
Then do it from a different instance? Who cares what they do on one specific instance? Fuck them and all, but it’s their instance. Complaining about it flies in the face of what lemmy is entirely about.
Or do I not understand the entire point of lemmy?
Totally transferring to another instance and losing your post history is kind of a shitty solution when they could just not have authoritarian moderators instead. They're also Lemmy's developers.
You can always observe and research the instance you're about to create an account on to protect yourself from unpleasant surprises.
This is not a new development for lemmy.ml.
I joined back in June and lemmy.ml was absolutely doing all of this shit back then. Anything even mildly critical of China was banned for "orientalism." They've never been shy about the fact that their instance is run by tankies.
Users don't even need to leave lemmy.ml, they can just use their lemmy.ml account and post elsewhere.
You don't have to do that, though. You can just post on a different instance from your normal account.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe instance admins can remove your content that's posted to another instance.
They cannot. But, if you created a community on your instance it must align to the instance rules and admin can moderate it (does matter who posts there).
The second, smaller, issue people will associate you a bit with the instance you selected for your account (even if it was by chance).
And?
And I just explained it. Do you want it in Spanish or something?
I fail to see the problem after I explained that you’re free to post elsewhere. I too have a sign-in with them. But because of their dumb shit- I left and don’t post from there anymore.
That’s how lemmy works. That’s the entire point of it.
You're free to abandon your account and they're free to not hire authoritarian moderators. Why should it be on you and not them?
ROFL! So… to summarize, you think the moderators who put their own time, effort, and money into running an instance….
… are entirely beheld to a random tool that doesn’t like how things are run?
It’s not on them because they own the instance. If you don’t like it, fuck all the way off elsewhere. It’s what I did. Because I get how it works.
If I go to a mechanic and they put Nazi literature in my car, I have a couple of options. One would be to just switch to another mechanic and not say anything. The other would be to let everyone know about the car place that puts Nazi literature in your car to shame them into firing whoever it was that did it.
You would take option one. I consider that cowardly.
My god, you’re not very bright, are you?
For starters, you PAY a mechanic. So if they put “Nazi literature” in your car, yeah, you’d have a big problem with them and deservedly so-
How much did you pay to use their server?
Also- it’s THEIR server. Not YOUR CAR.
Additionally, you’re VERY bad at analogies. Please learn how to compare to similar things before you attempt to try one again.
Stopped reading at the insult. Not interested in trading insults.
And before you claim I called you a coward, I did not. I said you would take the cowardly option in the case I was mentioning.
I am not interested in Reddit behavior. You can either talk to me like you would if we were face to face, where you know you would not be hurling insults, or I can just block you. Your choice.
Dude, you sound like an absolute fool of a tool.
To move to another instance you have to be aware of the issue. To be aware of the issue you have to care about it.
Maybe just one half. True, one half is that every instance can do what it wants.
The other half is, that users can do what they want. In order to be able to do what they want, they need information about instances.
People speaking up about what many people would consider frown-worthy instance behaviour is an important part of that process.
We are free to warn each other.
There are multiple world politics communities and multiple other news/politics communities that also discuss world politics. One community going ban happy is irrelevant.