Fuck Nintendo. All they have done is ensure I never buy one of their products again.
Same! In fact, I have a switch, but tears of the kingdom was the last thing I bought for it.
I’ve skipped everything else. It’s not worth supporting an evil company.
I will always say this in these "Nintendo shuts down beloved fan project" threads: why don't the people working on these projects operate anonymously and release via torrent? I feel like I've been reading the same story for 20 years. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone at this point that Nintendo will come after you.
Because emulation is legal. It shouldn't have to be hidden. This was taken through the courts in 2001 with the Sony vs Bleem lawsuit.
What appears to be happening is Nintendo is abusing its power and money to make threats of legal action that these groups just can't afford to fight, even though they haven't done anything illegal. It should be coming as a surprise that Nintendo is coming for them, because this is completely legal, and not some fan game using Nintendo IP (which is what they normally shut down).
Legal in the US. I think this guy is in Brazil.
Is nintendo the source of the "come to brazil" meme? 🤔
The Sony verdict didn’t establish emulation as legal
At most you find that it established using mods/creating derivatives is illegal
And on the low end it found that using pictures from competitors in advertising as comparison isn’t illegal
What Yuzu was doing was unquestionably illegal.
This is like if a pedestrian gets struck by a car while on a crosswalk. Yeah, they were allowed to be there... but they should have looked both ways before crossing the street.
This is a case of people being idealistic rather than practical.
Incidentally, this is a perfect example, because the automotive industry ran a series of ad campaigns to change public sentiment after cars got more common and children and elderly citizens started dying in the streets.
Nintendo is working equally hard to change public sentiment against the innocent.
You're talking about blame assignment, but I am instead referring to the fact that in both the Nintendo and the automotive example that somebody got smacked because they weren't careful enough.
Somebody got smacked because they were told that this was a safe area to be in. Then they get hit, and are blamed for not being careful enough in the area they were told was safe to be in.
Like I said above, everyone coming through here is so obsessed with talking about blame and fault. That's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm saying that if Ryujinx wanted to avoid this outcome, they should have done things differently.
See, no mention of blame at all. How else do I need to spell things out for the extremely autistic and pedantic crowd here?
if Ryujinx wanted to avoid this outcome, they should have done things differently
How do you not read this as blame? Or, is this not the same as "they had it coming, wouldn't have happened if they'd been dressed in armour or hadn't gone down that street alone" which is often known as victim blaming.
Oh, there's a wiki article on that. It has a section on the thing you're arguing about, with cars and pedestrians Neat. Maybe this is why people are talking about it.
I'm fully ready to get torn apart for this. I get victim blaming is wrong. But sometimes you can make better choices based on available information, regardless of whether it's your fault if something happens.
If there's a street called Drag Race Avenue where every person that lives on it drag races up and down it all day and every week there's a news story of someone getting hit using the crossing on Drag Race Avenue, maybe you shouldn't use the crossing on that street. Sure, it won't be your fault if you get hit, but how much comfort will that be when you're injured or dead?
It's possible to make choices that are objectively morally/legally/ethically right that are still stupid choices. Unfortunately we don't live in a world where as long as you do the right thing, so will everyone else and nothing bad will ever happen to you.
Hazards are a part of life. In many if not all workplaces there are hazards. Due to this there are hazard controls, along with a widely accepted list of most effective to least effective ways to deal with a hazard. First is to get rid of it entirely (stop people drag racing on that street) but if that's not possible, the next 2 are replace the hazard then isolate the hazard. In other words, if something exists that you can't stop from existing, your best course of action is to stay away from it / out of its way if possible.
These controls aren't about victim blaming, they're about making hazards as safe as possible. It's not illegal to carry a box that's too heavy for you, but you still may be injured by doing so. There's a reason workplaces have 100s of policies that aren't illegal but they decided you can't do there. Because there are many things that exist that you can do that are entirely legal but could still harm you.
Emulators might not be illegal, but Nintendo is a hazard to them that can't be eliminated.
I guess it depends on whether you care more about being right, or more about being safe.
These people could make the choice to be safer if they wanted to. They could be more anonymous if they wanted to. They could stay out of Nintendo's way. But if being right that they're not doing anything wrong is more important so be it. Maybe they consider it worth being shut down in order to draw attention to the issue. That's up to them.
Being right and being suddenly under a car are not mutually exclusive.
ITT: people not understanding the difference between BLAME and OUTCOME and downvoting you because of it. Incidentally, I also read a thread earlier today that talked about declining literacy in adults....
Emulation might be legal, but it's software specifically designed to run illegal copies of the games.
I dislike Nintendo, but I can't blame them for taking down that kind of software development. They're still selling many of their old games through their own store for their own emulators. They're perhaps charging way too much for it and/or lock it behind a subscription wall, even if you ever bought the original copies. Absolute garbage business practice, but from the corporate point of view I can see why they go after emulators. Especially since it's easier to take those down than trying to go after all digital emulator copies of the games (if not impossible).
They're probably gonna try and set an example to scare off others trying to make new emulators too.
Edit: lol people really are shooting the messenger here.
Also, the amount of excuses that people have to make backups of their already purchased games is very weak. You damn well know that a vast majority of people don't use it for such reasons, the amount of people that still own original copies, and also have the hardware to even extract software for personal use must be like less than a percentage of the entire community using emulators. They're just people pirating games they never paid for. It's very naive to assume otherwise.
That may be the main reason why people use or even create emulators, but there are still legitimate uses for emulators. It's like banning couples from riding the same motorcycle because two people on a bike is usually a robbery.
Nice metaphor, is it your original?
Is it illegal to copy your own Nintendo games?
It is not illegal to make backup copies for yourself of games you have purchased and own.
As shitty as it is, yes.
To be fair, it's software specifically designed to run digital backups of what's supposed to be personally owned media. It just so happens that it's very easy to obtain a copy otherwise, but there's nothing inherently illegal about it or the games.
Strong arming independent projects, and individual developers especially, that are very careful to not endorse that, effectively holding them accountable for others, is morally questionable at best.
From a theoretical point of view, emulators of modern consoles may actually be illegal. Under the DMCA, emulation for preservation is protected as a periodically-renewed exemption list defined by the library of congress. But, (paraphrasing) "creating or distributing any hardware or software device—or component of such—designed to circumvent DRM technology" is still illegal irrespective of any exemptions. A reasonable (and bullshit) interpretation of that means that any emulator which is capable of bypassing any DRM features (such as decrypting ROM using user-provided keys) is a violation under the act.
I say theoretical because it hasn't ever actually been tested in a court. Nintendo v. Tropic Haze LLC nearly gave us the answer, but the latter chose to settle instead.
I can’t blame them for taking down that kind of software development.
Your not being able to blame them is completely irrelevant. Nintendo can not like stuff all it wants. The question is if it is LEGAL. If it is, and it is, your defense of their actions is a defense of the argument that they should be above the law because they don't like something, and that's an absolutely TERRIBLE position to take. You don't need to white knight for Nintendo. They have more money than God and taking up their fights for them against your own rights as a consumer is so far beyond Stockholm Syndrome that I don't think we even have a word for it yet.
Feel like you failed to read and grasp what I said.
Never said I agreed with what they're doing, I am not white knighting them. I frankly don't give a shit what Nintendo does and doesn't and what they'll lose over it.
I was just stating an observation from a business point of view.
It's also legal to own guns in some countries, doesn't make it legal to use it to just shoot at anything, and it's even more ridiculous to assume that everyone buying/owning guns has good intentions. There are many countries where owning a gun isn't legal, as well as making copies of products you've bought, even for personal backup.
And to believe that people use emulation exclusively for their own backups is insanely naive.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt that maybe I didn't grasp what you said, but reading your reply it seems like I grasped it fine.
Here's the thing. People use emulators for piracy. That is also COMPLETELY and totally irrelevant to the discussion. The right to developing emulators is well-established, and game preservation isn't even the most important consequence. The right to developing emulators is what allows virtualization that forms the backbone of server architecture, as well as running legacy code from old architectures on modern hardware, alleviating the need for thousands of man hours in rewriting tried and tested code. 20 years in the future, when the IoTs stupidity litters millions of homes with inaccessible, useless plastic garbage, emulation of no longer supported control units will be a panacea.
Nintendo is totally free to not like the law, but it is the law, and this pressure to shut down these projects is a flagrant violation of the developers' legal rights, which regardless of the morality of piracy is a disgusting flouting of the legal system.
People use guns to murder, yes. But whether you or I think it's correct or not, the law does not hold gun makers liable for the things their users do with them. We can't just DECIDE that there are exceptions to the law and begin prosecuting or acting as if they are liable. That requires either a new law or an interpretation by a court to set a precedent - not lawyers sending a cease and desist to Smith & Wesson. That is a slippery slope to an absolutely nightmarish dystopia.
There is no justifying this in a "Well, I can see why they did it..." sense any more than in a murder case. The law is clear. The established rights of the developers are clear. The right to make a Switch emulator is NOT Nintendo's right to give or deny like a trademark dispute or the ability to make a fan game. They don't GET a say. The right to make an emulator is explicitly YOURS by LAW. And a giant corporation has taken their money and used it to violate established rights with threat of bankruptcy in violation of that established law. If you believe in the rule of law, no matter what you think of piracy, that should be utterly haunting.
If guns are sold legally, it means that there is the assumption that everyone buying them has good intentions.
What do you think emulation is?
Copying your own copy of a game and using tools for compatibility is what we're talking about, is protected, and already has the case law demonstrating so.
It is made for various things like game development. When my company was working on remastering a GameCube game, Nintendo themselves handed us a devkit, and we used the dolphin emulator to play the original game and compare gameplay and performance.
They're still selling many of their old games
And yet many more that aren't.
Nintendo didn't put legal pressure on emulator devs for decades at this point, which made devs less cautious about preserving their pseudonymity.
Now it's too late and they can't stop Nintendo from finding out who they are and which mistakes they did at some point over the years.
Maybe a new generation of emulator developers will be more protective of their identity, by using hosting providers like Njalla or privacy networks like i2p. The latter would limit access (as it requires i2p), which isn't desirable for most users.
While that's true, it's incredibly reductive to a baseline of "nintendo should win because they are powerful and others aren't"
How many of these emulators were shut down through legal action or threat of legal action? I mean, the list goes on and on
Nintendo is using every action possible to stop switch emulation, because, unlike other console companies, they don't produce any advanced or specific hardware anymore, and they purely survive through their IP.
And because these are never finished projects. People can rant and rave about cloning the git all day, but without active, knowledgeable developers with the knowledge of the original dev team, these projects are dead. It's not about using the emulators as they exist today... it's about continuing to keep them working going forward. Anything that releases in the last year or two of the Switch's life is now at risk of being lost forever into Nintendo's archives.
Anything that releases in the last year or two of the Switch's life is now at risk of being lost forever into Nintendo's archives.
Somebody will archive it, for two reasons: 1) data hoarders and 2) hacked Switches.
Sure, it will be as playable as it is right now, right as the project shuts down. Any updates or improvements? Any new games? Only if someone else takes up the mantle and risks having world police nintendo suing them
I assume emulator development will continue eventually. Who knows when that will be, though.
The thing that sucks is that I'm in the middle of a couple of games, so if something upgrades and Ryujinx isn't compatible, I'm hosed.
This is the first time they've been suing emulator developers.
There were so many Nintendo apologists when Yuzu was taken down because "Yuzu used actual nintendo source code, so that's why they were taken down, it won't happen to Ryujinx." Yet here we are. Nintendo is by far the shittiest company when it comes to protecting their IP, because it's all they have. Turns out, Mario is a fucking bootlicker
I don't understand how people think getting rid of emulators is good. Having emulators is better as a consumer than not having them at all, since it can give gamers more ways to play their games and might incentivize Nintendo to add features to compete with emulators (think better res and fps, mod support, save states, no online requirement).
Because a subset of people are and always will be idiots. Remember: some people think unions exist to steal your money, socialism is communist dictatorship propaganda, and privatization of government services is good for everybody.
Nintendo fanboys are a special breed of stupid, arguing with them about Nintendo's policies and anti consumer practices is just a wasted effort.
Yuzu did not use "nintendo source code".
They simply hosted decryption keys in their repository. But that still was not the focus of Nintendo's move. It was that Yuzu and its company profited directly from the release of The Legend of Zelda.
Well he is always saving the monarchy. Should have been kinda obvious 👑
Saving one monarchy from another.
Yeah but Bowser at least gives his subjects free healthcare. Sometimes even brings them back to life. When have you seen a skeletoad?
True. The only time we've seen a Toad's skeleton is when they're electrocuted in Mario Strikers Charged.
because it’s all they have
I'm not quite sure you fully understand what you said here, given your surrounding arguments. Nintendo literally cannot exist if they allow emulators without becoming just another Sony/Microsoft. And they cannot realistically compete against those two.
fuck Nintendo and fuck fanboys who defend them at every turn. breath of the wild was a 7/10 game
All the more reason to buy their next system at V1.0 with 0 games.
...keep it in the box for a year and keep an eye on a hack hitting the news.
Botw is easily a 9/10 for me . Totk too. I really like Nintendos take on open world. However, I still appreciate the other Zelda games a lot and I hope they don't completely abandon that linear formula
The world is interactive but bland. Except a few scenic vistas, there's nothing interesting about the botw's open world.
I desperately wanted a switch 2 and been gaming on my mac using emu and a handful of native games until release.
But at this point I'll probably pick up the ps5 or steam deck just to avoid these folks ^
The Steam Deck is a great option, I have a hub to be able to play on my TV, and don't tell Nintendo, but a lot of Switch games run nicely.
I have an SD full of every NES-N64 game with a bunch of GameCube thrown in too, it's a beautiful thing. Plus gyro on old GameCube games is pretty funny
Lol great advice, probably runs them better and SD card sounds like a dream
I actually hated BotW 😂
Its insanely repetitive and I got so tired of watching the same cut scenes over and over with no way to skip them...
I know it's a hot take but don't downvote me for my opinion haha.
I've hated every cartoony zelda ever made. I will die playing LttP over and over again.
You're entitled to your opinion, but it objectively is not a 7/10.
You know ratings are inherently subjective right?
yeah I probably overrated it
BOTW is not a real Zelda game IMHO.
'offered an agreement'
So bribed them?
Probably more of a "Do x, y, and z and we agree not to sue you about it"
If Nintendo is smart, they should offer a job. Those guys most probably know more about those systems than many of their employees. And also Nintendo develops emulators for their online service. They could clearly profit by hiring them.
Make good sense
They sent people to his house
I'm Brazil
motherfucker had goons sicced on him
I'm Brazil
hi Brazil, I'm Dad!
Hi dad, I'm Brazil 💪😟💪
FWIW Brazil has the largest population of Japanese people outside of Japan.
Honestly that in itself sounds illegal. What was the emulator's license? The guy taking the money isn't the only code contributor.
People think emulator protections in the law are stronger than they really are. Sony vs Connectix made emulation legal, but it wasn't heard by the supreme court. PS1 games weren't encrypted and relied on other methods like disc wobble to prevent piracy...so without proactively violating any measures you could just not include that check in your competing emulator and play retail discs without breaking any laws.
In steps the DMCA anti-circumvention laws for bypassing video game / console encryption measures, which is an even bigger untested minefield without precedent in favor of emulation. And since games are default encrypted on new consoles and arguably not subject to exemption (at least while still supported) it really might be a disaster to fight it.
Nintendo is a dick but it's not in our interest or theirs to really push the boundary on the status quo. The get to slap suit whatever they want taken down, we get to play the emulation hydra game where it's still legally grey.
Personally I don’t give a flying Fuck what the law says, breaking copyright is the only thing preventing the world from being more of a dystopian nightmare with subscription mice and trains that break down if you take them to a mechanic and I can’t wait for someone in china or India to take the Open source code and make a better emulator.
I care what the law says if it's wrong.
I don't much care of what is said, when it is just. I'm more concerned with those who claim to know the difference
If they had an actual plan or history of preserving games I'd not care about emulator development. But with the industry track record being so poor we need emulators if for nothing else for preservation.
So much culturally interesting data has already been lost to time which I bet future historians would absolutely love to have access to. The internet archive is missing much of the early internet, while old iPhone and Android apps are largely unable to be run even if you have the APK/IPA required,
As with Yuzu, I won't be buying any more switch games. I'll still be playing switch games, and so will my friends, but we won't my buying them.
Honestly, I've lived watching emulators for decades. They can come and go and there's always more, even ones that aren't forks. Just today I was reminiscing on my first emulators, zsnes, no$gmb and nesticle. Y'all remember the peaceful zsnes snowfall? Good times.
I own a Nintendo, and I haven't used it in years. I bought some games which were ridiculously priced compared to what I was used to on steam. I'm rather annoyed they keep their games console exclusive for this reason, they have like a monopoly of a market they control, it feels.
I was gonna get some more games to put on it, but with then shutting down these emulators, I think I'll use one of those instead. Fuck Nintendo.
Yeah I haven't used my switch in a long time. I think I might have power surged it, but I don't really care enough to even double check.
I have a switch emulator on my external HD along with a bunch of other emulators. When I get my next PC I'll just play whatever switch games I want on that.
Even having a switch, I still prefer to dump the games and play them on steamdeck. That way, I can just bring one device for gaming.
Even is emulation is not perfect on the steamdeck, I’m still happy to play at lower performance or with some graphical glitches for the convenience.
I have a bunch of emus. Does the deck let you put them in your library as a non steam game and play them? That's how I have them setup on my PC.
Yes. There are a couple different ways to do that.
Ok cool. That's one of my main concerns with it.
Just hack it
It's supported by LineageOS lol. You could repurpose it as a tablet to stream steam games.
No need to install Android for that, there is a native Moonlight port for the switch. Will get you better performance and battery life than trying to do the same thing with Android
Obligatory fuck Nintendo, but I also blame the selfish dumbfucks who keep posting videos of themselves playing unreleased games on YouTube and Reddit. If you want nice things contingent on having software which exists in a legal gray area, don't openly poke the litigious hornets' nest.
That's inevitable though, blame them all you want those people will always exist
I need to remind some people here who don't seem to understand something.
Forks may be dead and development may not be as fast as the original.
However - you must think about the future and not the situation right now. Yuzu and Ryujinx sources will be invaluable information for people making emulators later down the line.
It's a matter of when and not if someone picks it up again.
Agree. Was thinking exactly the same this afternoon. If there would be a new generational console evolution (like it happened from the Wii to the Switch), then the when would be much faster. However, since it seems Nintendo is going for a Switch 2, I am just sad that Switch emulators will be halted for several years :/
I know it's not happening, but I'd love it if Nintendo went the way of Sega, and just made games. They've always been hit and miss with their consoles anyway, it's the games people love. Just fuck it, start releasing games for multiple platforms and focus on what you're actually fucking good. Pipe dream, I know
I imagine Nintendo could make a tonne selling Zelda games for PC for 1.5x what they normally charge, simply for performance and controller compatibility.
Right?
If they hate emulators so much, why aren't they selling native x86 versions?
they could even sell a VM image as they've proven it still runs better virtualised on other machines than it does native on theirs
"Hey we released this new game buuuuut you’re going to need to purchase an entire separate computer system we call a ‘console’ because we refuse to compile the game binary for PC OSes, nor provide the source for you to do so yourself”
I interpret distributors and publishers treating me as a second (or third) class citizen as carte blanche to acquire your content and make the necessary changes to make it work on my environment of choice.
Don't switch games already cost more than PC games, I kinda doubt people would be willing to pay even more.
Depends on your country but switch games range 50-70 € and pc games are more like 10-100€ but with ones comparable to Switch games mostly 30-60€. So yes mostly, but they're not that far off that they would definitely do poorly.
I don't think a lot of people would buy e.g. BotW for 100 bucks.
Nintendo DS and Switch are the second and third most sold consoles ever, respectively. Gameboy and GB Colour comes in fourth of you count them together. Wii is sixth or seventh depending on if you group the above.
it's in the repo for basically any linux distribution too so the source and executables are mirrored on literally thousands of servers and easily downloadable, so absolute worst case scenario it's version froze at 1.1.1388 for the time being.
all that happened to yuzu is a slight name change so i don't expect much more here.
all that happened to yuzu is a slight name change so i don't expect much more here.
All of the commits for Suyu, the most active yuzu "fork" this year is like 20 different readme/URL changes, lol. Nintendo 100% succeeded in killing it.
@nichtburningturtle@mr_MADAFAKA confirmed, the full git history up to yesterday is preserved and already mirrored all over, so it's all good 👍
More like may the one with actual development and updates win
What kinda question is that? Mobbing the developers out of switch emulation.
The only two options where you and ryujinx and they are both taken out, all the forks are jokes because the developers that had real abilities worked on the main projects.
Yeah, this is dumb.
I own original hardware and buy 100% of my games but sometimes you just wanna run games that aren't originally crossplatform on your Steamdeck for convenience, or on a PC with resolution upscaling, or for ease of streaming the gameplay, or tons of other legitimate reasons.
Nintendo has some great IP and gameplay, and I guarantee you their sales are not meaningfully hurt by people who pirate/emulate games. Those people were never their customers anyway. If anything the emulation community enabled streamers to boost the popularity of their games. (People like PointCrow did more for the sustained popularity of BOTW than all of Nintendo's marketing efforts combined)
A lot of people resort to emulation simply so they can play mods too.
That's a perk of emulation, but it isn't the reason why someone would pirate over purchasing it. People just want free shit, but they have a weird mental block in admitting it.
Yep, sure do.
keeps pirating
Those are two different situations.
There isn't enough paying for shit that's gonna make a mod run in an unmodified console. You can find people who have bought every single Pokémon game ever, and they still want to play romhacks and randomizers and such.
There's something to be said about how willing people are to pay and whether they admit it or why. But sounds more like you don't want to believe there's any other reason to do it.
I own original hardware and buy 100% of my games but sometimes you just wanna run games that aren't originally crossplatform on your Steamdeck for convenience, or on a PC with resolution upscaling, or for ease of streaming the gameplay, or tons of other legitimate reasons.
Can't wait until our courts decide that, due to the prevalence of "remasters" that are just upscaled ROMs running on emulators, that this is no longer considered "fair use."
I agree with you, but Nintendo's sales are definitely hurt meaningfully by piracy. Over a million people downloaded TOTK when it leaked.
I was one of them but I also had my physical game pre-ordered so....
I would expect the people that bought a physical copy but pirated it anyway to be the minority, but we'll never know.
And I guarantee a lot, if not most, of those people didn't even have Switches. If Nintendo had released a PC version they would have sold a ton more.
So what you're saying is not only did they not buy a game, they also didn't buy the system the game was developed for. So it definitely hurt Nintendo's bottom line.
No, because if they wanted a Switch, they would have bought one.
But that's on Nintendo. For those people the game doesn't cost $70, it costs $200+ even if they buy a used Switch lite. Nintendo is deliberately leveraging their games to make people buy their console when those people just want to buy the game.
They want to have their cake and eat it too, and that is most likely one of the biggest reasons people pirated TOTK.
Go to hell Nintendo. I will never buy anything from them again and I will advise gamers I know to do the same.
And then nobody ever made another emulator for Nintendo products again and this definitely does not foreshadow an endless game of whack-a-mole powered by spite.
Surely not.
Is there still an alternative left for the switch?
Both ryujinx and yuzu are open source, there are loads of forks
were they able to do some work on emulation already?
Suyu was mismanaged and died very quickly. Sudachi was excellent and has an Android build but the dev is taking a break.
Wow... I had a look at the commit history and it doesn't seem like any actual development is taking place. Just changes and removal of text here and there.
Why put all this energy in to making a website and host a fork when you don't do anything with it?
A major rewrite is pending. He stated this on his Twitter I think.
5 minutes of internet fame.
Steam Deck.
Knew that was coming, at some point... I wonder if anyone grabbed copies of the git repos.
Archive org has it
If anyone has the git repo downloaded, they have a copy of it (from when they last pulled)
I've seen a few floating around.
I'm a bit salty this was apparently announced through Discord. Was it even posted anywhere else?
The future of social media is fragmented siloes, I guess.
I wouldn't have an issue with many different communications platforms if they didn't all require an account (also Discord not being indexable sucks).
Yeah, why don't they send an owl to each interested party?
Some of us like to be contacted via cute and fluffy snow owls...
Imagine not developing a controversial emulator anonymously...
I've always wondered that. Why not just throw a git repo behind I2P or onto IPFS? It's like they want to be attacked.
Attention and recognition.
The last version released is 1.1.1403. Easy to find with a google search.
I'm now pretty sure we got our last Nintendo switch game. I'm not going to buy out kids anything Nintendo anymore. They are the most recent RIAA.
You were buying Switch games but because of something unrelated to your gaming and purchasing habits, you're going to stop your unrelated behavior?
that is typically how boycotts work yes.
Nestle isn't poisoning their bottled water but some people still refuse to buy it.
Yup
I don't even have a single Nintendo or game of any sort. My kids got dupped by YouTube and so now it's either cry or pay for that shit.....a few years ago.... Today though, they are old enough to get pissed at things. I shall explain what Nintendo is doing so that they make better choices in the future.
What doesn't make sense though is why now all of a sudden? They were content to buy Nintendo games up until yesterday, but the Ryujinx takedown, which was amicably agreed upon between Nintendo and the devs, that was the final straw? This just screams disingenuous en vogue Nintendo bashing to me.
People refuse to buy Nestle products because Nestle is a wildly unethical company and its behavior directly affects which products are available to purchase. Nintendo protecting their IP, while sucking for pirates, doesn't violate any known ethical principle. Apples and oranges.
Are you suggesting that no one is allowed to see Nintendo do a new bad thing and say "I'm no longer willing to give them my money"?
Not to mention there's nothing 'amicable' about a massive corporation, infamous for their lawsuits, approaching a single programmer with a deal that is obviously the only way to avoid being sued, despite the fact that emulators are legal.
If someone purchases a Switch game they have every right to back it up and use an emulator to play it. Instead of strongarming these projects into submission, the ethical thing would be working with them to sell legal access to ROMs.
Never give Nintendo money.
Still on Flathub though.
Yuzu was like that soon after being taken down. I assume Flathub has some sort of delay.
Flathub is still available to whoever needs it
Well that sucks.. I'm still pissed at Roblox for their DRM rug pull on Linux. Didn't stop the bots and hackers for more than two weeks anyways - bet Ryujinx 2.0 will be out soon too.
Anyone know if DRM is cracked on Roblox yet? Just a yes or no I can find it nevermind I'll go look
These asstards really hate fun.
The SWITCH, is my last Nintendo product I will own.
The Steam Deck is the last nintendo console I'll need
And now I regret not copying their repo to our Forgejo instance.
Why is Nintendo in particular this aggressive against emulators? Why haven't we heard of Sony going after PCSX2 and RPCS3, or Microsoft going after Xenia and Xemu?
It is likely due to age and popularity. At this point PCSX2 is the only widely popular emulator you've listed, but is older, in the same way Dolphin is old and less of a concern of harming their limelight. That isn't to say those other emulators aren't making waves lately, but there is a window between age and popularity that makes this software a prime target. Especially emulators for current gen, which has been historically very rare, and when it did exist were no where near as good as CEMU, Yuzu, and Ryujinx were.
I think this also shows how underpowered Nintendo consoles are; the Switch is essentially a slightly upgraded Wii U, which itself was only marginally better than the PS3 and Xbox 360! If Nintendo really wanted to combat piracy, all they had to do was beef up their flagship console to the point where it's hard to emulate.
Because none of those emulate current generation systems.
People act weirdly entitled about Nintendo product, throw shitfits when Nintendo reacts exactly like Sony or Microsoft would to them doing the same thing, then act extra hurt that Nintendo did it.
Now and then I bought Nintendo games for my nephew. This stopped right now.
I mean. I understand the sentiment but I don't think your nephew will understand 😅 you should keep buying games for your nephew bro. I'll stop buying games in his place
How about a link to it instead of a discord screenshot jfc
It's the Ryujinx discord. You're looking at a primary source. You linked a secondary source.
Well at least paste the text of the message
I can't wait until you kids grow up and realize you're not entitled to everything.
Ok Boomer
‘Free’ always tastes better. It’s my favourite word. Free. It’s free. For free. 0 dollars. Gratis. Free of cost. On the house. Never had buyers remorse from acquiring something for free
My second favourite is ‘Cheap’
Especially when the cheap or free service is better than the expensive service.
I agree. We should realize the following:
There are things we are not entitled to.
There are things we are entitled to.
There is Nintendo's opinion on which is which.
There's someone else's opinion on which is which.
There's law which should be a dignified compromise between these.
The law may or may not be such a compromise.
Our obligations before law mirror our rights.
Our engagement with law mirrors our participation in forming it.
We have been robbed of that ability and raise our voice where it matters.
Hence Nintendo's opinion and said law don't matter shit.
who said they where entitled to this. Nentendo is the one who is acting entitled, Netendo did not put in any work, employees at nentendo did, but they where not payed the full value of their labor. Copy right for ever and ever was only 20 years now its essentaly forever, no way for these to legaly enter the public domain.
Given the 2 sides I would say Nentendo, who has more money than god, is the entitled ones
Entitled? Nintendo didn't produce this code nor did they make this, what exactly do you think is being demanded of Nintendo?
Fuck Nintendo. All they have done is ensure I never buy one of their products again.
Same! In fact, I have a switch, but tears of the kingdom was the last thing I bought for it.
I’ve skipped everything else. It’s not worth supporting an evil company.
I will always say this in these "Nintendo shuts down beloved fan project" threads: why don't the people working on these projects operate anonymously and release via torrent? I feel like I've been reading the same story for 20 years. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone at this point that Nintendo will come after you.
Because emulation is legal. It shouldn't have to be hidden. This was taken through the courts in 2001 with the Sony vs Bleem lawsuit.
What appears to be happening is Nintendo is abusing its power and money to make threats of legal action that these groups just can't afford to fight, even though they haven't done anything illegal. It should be coming as a surprise that Nintendo is coming for them, because this is completely legal, and not some fan game using Nintendo IP (which is what they normally shut down).
Legal in the US. I think this guy is in Brazil.
Is nintendo the source of the "come to brazil" meme? 🤔
The Sony verdict didn’t establish emulation as legal
At most you find that it established using mods/creating derivatives is illegal
And on the low end it found that using pictures from competitors in advertising as comparison isn’t illegal
What Yuzu was doing was unquestionably illegal.
This is like if a pedestrian gets struck by a car while on a crosswalk. Yeah, they were allowed to be there... but they should have looked both ways before crossing the street.
This is a case of people being idealistic rather than practical.
Incidentally, this is a perfect example, because the automotive industry ran a series of ad campaigns to change public sentiment after cars got more common and children and elderly citizens started dying in the streets.
Nintendo is working equally hard to change public sentiment against the innocent.
Source: https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history
You're talking about blame assignment, but I am instead referring to the fact that in both the Nintendo and the automotive example that somebody got smacked because they weren't careful enough.
Somebody got smacked because they were told that this was a safe area to be in. Then they get hit, and are blamed for not being careful enough in the area they were told was safe to be in.
Like I said above, everyone coming through here is so obsessed with talking about blame and fault. That's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm saying that if Ryujinx wanted to avoid this outcome, they should have done things differently.
See, no mention of blame at all. How else do I need to spell things out for the extremely autistic and pedantic crowd here?
How do you not read this as blame? Or, is this not the same as "they had it coming, wouldn't have happened if they'd been dressed in armour or hadn't gone down that street alone" which is often known as victim blaming.
Oh, there's a wiki article on that. It has a section on the thing you're arguing about, with cars and pedestrians Neat. Maybe this is why people are talking about it.
I'm fully ready to get torn apart for this. I get victim blaming is wrong. But sometimes you can make better choices based on available information, regardless of whether it's your fault if something happens.
If there's a street called Drag Race Avenue where every person that lives on it drag races up and down it all day and every week there's a news story of someone getting hit using the crossing on Drag Race Avenue, maybe you shouldn't use the crossing on that street. Sure, it won't be your fault if you get hit, but how much comfort will that be when you're injured or dead?
It's possible to make choices that are objectively morally/legally/ethically right that are still stupid choices. Unfortunately we don't live in a world where as long as you do the right thing, so will everyone else and nothing bad will ever happen to you.
Hazards are a part of life. In many if not all workplaces there are hazards. Due to this there are hazard controls, along with a widely accepted list of most effective to least effective ways to deal with a hazard. First is to get rid of it entirely (stop people drag racing on that street) but if that's not possible, the next 2 are replace the hazard then isolate the hazard. In other words, if something exists that you can't stop from existing, your best course of action is to stay away from it / out of its way if possible.
These controls aren't about victim blaming, they're about making hazards as safe as possible. It's not illegal to carry a box that's too heavy for you, but you still may be injured by doing so. There's a reason workplaces have 100s of policies that aren't illegal but they decided you can't do there. Because there are many things that exist that you can do that are entirely legal but could still harm you.
Emulators might not be illegal, but Nintendo is a hazard to them that can't be eliminated.
I guess it depends on whether you care more about being right, or more about being safe.
These people could make the choice to be safer if they wanted to. They could be more anonymous if they wanted to. They could stay out of Nintendo's way. But if being right that they're not doing anything wrong is more important so be it. Maybe they consider it worth being shut down in order to draw attention to the issue. That's up to them.
Being right and being suddenly under a car are not mutually exclusive.
ITT: people not understanding the difference between BLAME and OUTCOME and downvoting you because of it. Incidentally, I also read a thread earlier today that talked about declining literacy in adults....
Emulation might be legal, but it's software specifically designed to run illegal copies of the games.
I dislike Nintendo, but I can't blame them for taking down that kind of software development. They're still selling many of their old games through their own store for their own emulators. They're perhaps charging way too much for it and/or lock it behind a subscription wall, even if you ever bought the original copies. Absolute garbage business practice, but from the corporate point of view I can see why they go after emulators. Especially since it's easier to take those down than trying to go after all digital emulator copies of the games (if not impossible).
They're probably gonna try and set an example to scare off others trying to make new emulators too.
Edit: lol people really are shooting the messenger here.
Also, the amount of excuses that people have to make backups of their already purchased games is very weak. You damn well know that a vast majority of people don't use it for such reasons, the amount of people that still own original copies, and also have the hardware to even extract software for personal use must be like less than a percentage of the entire community using emulators. They're just people pirating games they never paid for. It's very naive to assume otherwise.
That may be the main reason why people use or even create emulators, but there are still legitimate uses for emulators. It's like banning couples from riding the same motorcycle because two people on a bike is usually a robbery.
Nice metaphor, is it your original?
Is it illegal to copy your own Nintendo games?
It is not illegal to make backup copies for yourself of games you have purchased and own.
As shitty as it is, yes.
To be fair, it's software specifically designed to run digital backups of what's supposed to be personally owned media. It just so happens that it's very easy to obtain a copy otherwise, but there's nothing inherently illegal about it or the games.
Strong arming independent projects, and individual developers especially, that are very careful to not endorse that, effectively holding them accountable for others, is morally questionable at best.
From a theoretical point of view, emulators of modern consoles may actually be illegal. Under the DMCA, emulation for preservation is protected as a periodically-renewed exemption list defined by the library of congress. But, (paraphrasing) "creating or distributing any hardware or software device—or component of such—designed to circumvent DRM technology" is still illegal irrespective of any exemptions. A reasonable (and bullshit) interpretation of that means that any emulator which is capable of bypassing any DRM features (such as decrypting ROM using user-provided keys) is a violation under the act.
I say theoretical because it hasn't ever actually been tested in a court. Nintendo v. Tropic Haze LLC nearly gave us the answer, but the latter chose to settle instead.
Your not being able to blame them is completely irrelevant. Nintendo can not like stuff all it wants. The question is if it is LEGAL. If it is, and it is, your defense of their actions is a defense of the argument that they should be above the law because they don't like something, and that's an absolutely TERRIBLE position to take. You don't need to white knight for Nintendo. They have more money than God and taking up their fights for them against your own rights as a consumer is so far beyond Stockholm Syndrome that I don't think we even have a word for it yet.
Feel like you failed to read and grasp what I said.
Never said I agreed with what they're doing, I am not white knighting them. I frankly don't give a shit what Nintendo does and doesn't and what they'll lose over it.
I was just stating an observation from a business point of view.
It's also legal to own guns in some countries, doesn't make it legal to use it to just shoot at anything, and it's even more ridiculous to assume that everyone buying/owning guns has good intentions. There are many countries where owning a gun isn't legal, as well as making copies of products you've bought, even for personal backup.
And to believe that people use emulation exclusively for their own backups is insanely naive.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt that maybe I didn't grasp what you said, but reading your reply it seems like I grasped it fine.
Here's the thing. People use emulators for piracy. That is also COMPLETELY and totally irrelevant to the discussion. The right to developing emulators is well-established, and game preservation isn't even the most important consequence. The right to developing emulators is what allows virtualization that forms the backbone of server architecture, as well as running legacy code from old architectures on modern hardware, alleviating the need for thousands of man hours in rewriting tried and tested code. 20 years in the future, when the IoTs stupidity litters millions of homes with inaccessible, useless plastic garbage, emulation of no longer supported control units will be a panacea.
Nintendo is totally free to not like the law, but it is the law, and this pressure to shut down these projects is a flagrant violation of the developers' legal rights, which regardless of the morality of piracy is a disgusting flouting of the legal system.
People use guns to murder, yes. But whether you or I think it's correct or not, the law does not hold gun makers liable for the things their users do with them. We can't just DECIDE that there are exceptions to the law and begin prosecuting or acting as if they are liable. That requires either a new law or an interpretation by a court to set a precedent - not lawyers sending a cease and desist to Smith & Wesson. That is a slippery slope to an absolutely nightmarish dystopia.
There is no justifying this in a "Well, I can see why they did it..." sense any more than in a murder case. The law is clear. The established rights of the developers are clear. The right to make a Switch emulator is NOT Nintendo's right to give or deny like a trademark dispute or the ability to make a fan game. They don't GET a say. The right to make an emulator is explicitly YOURS by LAW. And a giant corporation has taken their money and used it to violate established rights with threat of bankruptcy in violation of that established law. If you believe in the rule of law, no matter what you think of piracy, that should be utterly haunting.
If guns are sold legally, it means that there is the assumption that everyone buying them has good intentions.
What do you think emulation is?
Copying your own copy of a game and using tools for compatibility is what we're talking about, is protected, and already has the case law demonstrating so.
It is made for various things like game development. When my company was working on remastering a GameCube game, Nintendo themselves handed us a devkit, and we used the dolphin emulator to play the original game and compare gameplay and performance.
And yet many more that aren't.
Nintendo didn't put legal pressure on emulator devs for decades at this point, which made devs less cautious about preserving their pseudonymity.
Now it's too late and they can't stop Nintendo from finding out who they are and which mistakes they did at some point over the years.
Maybe a new generation of emulator developers will be more protective of their identity, by using hosting providers like Njalla or privacy networks like i2p. The latter would limit access (as it requires i2p), which isn't desirable for most users.
While that's true, it's incredibly reductive to a baseline of "nintendo should win because they are powerful and others aren't"
How many of these emulators were shut down through legal action or threat of legal action? I mean, the list goes on and on
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_emulators
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_2_emulators
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_3_emulators
https://www.ppsspp.org/
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_Vita_emulators
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Xbox_emulators
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Xbox_360_emulators
Oh right, this happened https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Computer_Entertainment,_Inc._v._Connectix_Corp.
Nintendo is using every action possible to stop switch emulation, because, unlike other console companies, they don't produce any advanced or specific hardware anymore, and they purely survive through their IP.
And because these are never finished projects. People can rant and rave about cloning the git all day, but without active, knowledgeable developers with the knowledge of the original dev team, these projects are dead. It's not about using the emulators as they exist today... it's about continuing to keep them working going forward. Anything that releases in the last year or two of the Switch's life is now at risk of being lost forever into Nintendo's archives.
Somebody will archive it, for two reasons: 1) data hoarders and 2) hacked Switches.
Sure, it will be as playable as it is right now, right as the project shuts down. Any updates or improvements? Any new games? Only if someone else takes up the mantle and risks having world police nintendo suing them
I assume emulator development will continue eventually. Who knows when that will be, though.
The thing that sucks is that I'm in the middle of a couple of games, so if something upgrades and Ryujinx isn't compatible, I'm hosed.
This is the first time they've been suing emulator developers.
Yeah! And they've been so cool and supportive of the gaming community thus far, <3 nintendo https://www.thegamer.com/a-snapshot-of-nintendos-convoluted-legal-history/
There were so many Nintendo apologists when Yuzu was taken down because "Yuzu used actual nintendo source code, so that's why they were taken down, it won't happen to Ryujinx." Yet here we are. Nintendo is by far the shittiest company when it comes to protecting their IP, because it's all they have. Turns out, Mario is a fucking bootlicker
I don't understand how people think getting rid of emulators is good. Having emulators is better as a consumer than not having them at all, since it can give gamers more ways to play their games and might incentivize Nintendo to add features to compete with emulators (think better res and fps, mod support, save states, no online requirement).
Because a subset of people are and always will be idiots. Remember: some people think unions exist to steal your money, socialism is communist dictatorship propaganda, and privatization of government services is good for everybody.
Nintendo fanboys are a special breed of stupid, arguing with them about Nintendo's policies and anti consumer practices is just a wasted effort.
Yuzu did not use "nintendo source code".
They simply hosted decryption keys in their repository. But that still was not the focus of Nintendo's move. It was that Yuzu and its company profited directly from the release of The Legend of Zelda.
Well he is always saving the monarchy. Should have been kinda obvious 👑
Saving one monarchy from another.
Yeah but Bowser at least gives his subjects free healthcare. Sometimes even brings them back to life. When have you seen a skeletoad?
True. The only time we've seen a Toad's skeleton is when they're electrocuted in Mario Strikers Charged.
I'm not quite sure you fully understand what you said here, given your surrounding arguments. Nintendo literally cannot exist if they allow emulators without becoming just another Sony/Microsoft. And they cannot realistically compete against those two.
fuck Nintendo and fuck fanboys who defend them at every turn. breath of the wild was a 7/10 game
All the more reason to buy their next system at V1.0 with 0 games.
...keep it in the box for a year and keep an eye on a hack hitting the news.
Botw is easily a 9/10 for me . Totk too. I really like Nintendos take on open world. However, I still appreciate the other Zelda games a lot and I hope they don't completely abandon that linear formula
The world is interactive but bland. Except a few scenic vistas, there's nothing interesting about the botw's open world.
I desperately wanted a switch 2 and been gaming on my mac using emu and a handful of native games until release.
But at this point I'll probably pick up the ps5 or steam deck just to avoid these folks ^
The Steam Deck is a great option, I have a hub to be able to play on my TV, and don't tell Nintendo, but a lot of Switch games run nicely.
I have an SD full of every NES-N64 game with a bunch of GameCube thrown in too, it's a beautiful thing. Plus gyro on old GameCube games is pretty funny
Lol great advice, probably runs them better and SD card sounds like a dream
I actually hated BotW 😂
Its insanely repetitive and I got so tired of watching the same cut scenes over and over with no way to skip them...
I know it's a hot take but don't downvote me for my opinion haha.
I've hated every cartoony zelda ever made. I will die playing LttP over and over again.
You're entitled to your opinion, but it objectively is not a 7/10.
You know ratings are inherently subjective right?
yeah I probably overrated it
BOTW is not a real Zelda game IMHO.
'offered an agreement'
So bribed them?
Probably more of a "Do x, y, and z and we agree not to sue you about it"
If Nintendo is smart, they should offer a job. Those guys most probably know more about those systems than many of their employees. And also Nintendo develops emulators for their online service. They could clearly profit by hiring them.
Make good sense
They sent people to his house
I'm Brazil
motherfucker had goons sicced on him
hi Brazil, I'm Dad!
Hi dad, I'm Brazil 💪😟💪
FWIW Brazil has the largest population of Japanese people outside of Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_diaspora
Honestly that in itself sounds illegal. What was the emulator's license? The guy taking the money isn't the only code contributor.
People think emulator protections in the law are stronger than they really are. Sony vs Connectix made emulation legal, but it wasn't heard by the supreme court. PS1 games weren't encrypted and relied on other methods like disc wobble to prevent piracy...so without proactively violating any measures you could just not include that check in your competing emulator and play retail discs without breaking any laws.
In steps the DMCA anti-circumvention laws for bypassing video game / console encryption measures, which is an even bigger untested minefield without precedent in favor of emulation. And since games are default encrypted on new consoles and arguably not subject to exemption (at least while still supported) it really might be a disaster to fight it.
Nintendo is a dick but it's not in our interest or theirs to really push the boundary on the status quo. The get to slap suit whatever they want taken down, we get to play the emulation hydra game where it's still legally grey.
Personally I don’t give a flying Fuck what the law says, breaking copyright is the only thing preventing the world from being more of a dystopian nightmare with subscription mice and trains that break down if you take them to a mechanic and I can’t wait for someone in china or India to take the Open source code and make a better emulator.
I care what the law says if it's wrong.
I don't much care of what is said, when it is just. I'm more concerned with those who claim to know the difference
If they had an actual plan or history of preserving games I'd not care about emulator development. But with the industry track record being so poor we need emulators if for nothing else for preservation.
So much culturally interesting data has already been lost to time which I bet future historians would absolutely love to have access to. The internet archive is missing much of the early internet, while old iPhone and Android apps are largely unable to be run even if you have the APK/IPA required,
As with Yuzu, I won't be buying any more switch games. I'll still be playing switch games, and so will my friends, but we won't my buying them.
Honestly, I've lived watching emulators for decades. They can come and go and there's always more, even ones that aren't forks. Just today I was reminiscing on my first emulators, zsnes, no$gmb and nesticle. Y'all remember the peaceful zsnes snowfall? Good times.
I own a Nintendo, and I haven't used it in years. I bought some games which were ridiculously priced compared to what I was used to on steam. I'm rather annoyed they keep their games console exclusive for this reason, they have like a monopoly of a market they control, it feels.
I was gonna get some more games to put on it, but with then shutting down these emulators, I think I'll use one of those instead. Fuck Nintendo.
Yeah I haven't used my switch in a long time. I think I might have power surged it, but I don't really care enough to even double check.
I have a switch emulator on my external HD along with a bunch of other emulators. When I get my next PC I'll just play whatever switch games I want on that.
Even having a switch, I still prefer to dump the games and play them on steamdeck. That way, I can just bring one device for gaming.
Even is emulation is not perfect on the steamdeck, I’m still happy to play at lower performance or with some graphical glitches for the convenience.
I have a bunch of emus. Does the deck let you put them in your library as a non steam game and play them? That's how I have them setup on my PC.
Yes. There are a couple different ways to do that.
Ok cool. That's one of my main concerns with it.
Just hack it
It's supported by LineageOS lol. You could repurpose it as a tablet to stream steam games.
No need to install Android for that, there is a native Moonlight port for the switch. Will get you better performance and battery life than trying to do the same thing with Android
https://github.com/XITRIX/Moonlight-Switch
Oh I didn't realize that'd be an option. Where shall I start?
https://switch.hacks.guide/
Obligatory fuck Nintendo, but I also blame the selfish dumbfucks who keep posting videos of themselves playing unreleased games on YouTube and Reddit. If you want nice things contingent on having software which exists in a legal gray area, don't openly poke the litigious hornets' nest.
That's inevitable though, blame them all you want those people will always exist
I need to remind some people here who don't seem to understand something.
Forks may be dead and development may not be as fast as the original.
However - you must think about the future and not the situation right now. Yuzu and Ryujinx sources will be invaluable information for people making emulators later down the line.
It's a matter of when and not if someone picks it up again.
Agree. Was thinking exactly the same this afternoon. If there would be a new generational console evolution (like it happened from the Wii to the Switch), then the when would be much faster. However, since it seems Nintendo is going for a Switch 2, I am just sad that Switch emulators will be halted for several years :/
I know it's not happening, but I'd love it if Nintendo went the way of Sega, and just made games. They've always been hit and miss with their consoles anyway, it's the games people love. Just fuck it, start releasing games for multiple platforms and focus on what you're actually fucking good. Pipe dream, I know
I imagine Nintendo could make a tonne selling Zelda games for PC for 1.5x what they normally charge, simply for performance and controller compatibility.
Right?
If they hate emulators so much, why aren't they selling native x86 versions?
they could even sell a VM image as they've proven it still runs better virtualised on other machines than it does native on theirs
Don't switch games already cost more than PC games, I kinda doubt people would be willing to pay even more.
Depends on your country but switch games range 50-70 € and pc games are more like 10-100€ but with ones comparable to Switch games mostly 30-60€. So yes mostly, but they're not that far off that they would definitely do poorly.
I don't think a lot of people would buy e.g. BotW for 100 bucks.
Nintendo DS and Switch are the second and third most sold consoles ever, respectively. Gameboy and GB Colour comes in fourth of you count them together. Wii is sixth or seventh depending on if you group the above.
I think people like their consoles.
What do they think they achieve with this?
Forcing people to purchase the Switch 2 for their handheld needs, obviously \
@nichtburningturtle @mr_MADAFAKA not sure, there's already like 500 forks up, may the one with the coolest name win.
it's in the repo for basically any linux distribution too so the source and executables are mirrored on literally thousands of servers and easily downloadable, so absolute worst case scenario it's version froze at 1.1.1388 for the time being.
all that happened to yuzu is a slight name change so i don't expect much more here.
All of the commits for Suyu, the most active yuzu "fork" this year is like 20 different readme/URL changes, lol. Nintendo 100% succeeded in killing it.
@nichtburningturtle @mr_MADAFAKA confirmed, the full git history up to yesterday is preserved and already mirrored all over, so it's all good 👍
More like may the one with actual development and updates win
What kinda question is that? Mobbing the developers out of switch emulation.
The only two options where you and ryujinx and they are both taken out, all the forks are jokes because the developers that had real abilities worked on the main projects.
Yeah, this is dumb.
I own original hardware and buy 100% of my games but sometimes you just wanna run games that aren't originally crossplatform on your Steamdeck for convenience, or on a PC with resolution upscaling, or for ease of streaming the gameplay, or tons of other legitimate reasons.
Nintendo has some great IP and gameplay, and I guarantee you their sales are not meaningfully hurt by people who pirate/emulate games. Those people were never their customers anyway. If anything the emulation community enabled streamers to boost the popularity of their games. (People like PointCrow did more for the sustained popularity of BOTW than all of Nintendo's marketing efforts combined)
A lot of people resort to emulation simply so they can play mods too.
That's a perk of emulation, but it isn't the reason why someone would pirate over purchasing it. People just want free shit, but they have a weird mental block in admitting it.
Yep, sure do.
keeps pirating
Those are two different situations.
There isn't enough paying for shit that's gonna make a mod run in an unmodified console. You can find people who have bought every single Pokémon game ever, and they still want to play romhacks and randomizers and such.
There's something to be said about how willing people are to pay and whether they admit it or why. But sounds more like you don't want to believe there's any other reason to do it.
Can't wait until our courts decide that, due to the prevalence of "remasters" that are just upscaled ROMs running on emulators, that this is no longer considered "fair use."
I agree with you, but Nintendo's sales are definitely hurt meaningfully by piracy. Over a million people downloaded TOTK when it leaked.
I was one of them but I also had my physical game pre-ordered so....
I would expect the people that bought a physical copy but pirated it anyway to be the minority, but we'll never know.
And I guarantee a lot, if not most, of those people didn't even have Switches. If Nintendo had released a PC version they would have sold a ton more.
So what you're saying is not only did they not buy a game, they also didn't buy the system the game was developed for. So it definitely hurt Nintendo's bottom line.
No, because if they wanted a Switch, they would have bought one.
But that's on Nintendo. For those people the game doesn't cost $70, it costs $200+ even if they buy a used Switch lite. Nintendo is deliberately leveraging their games to make people buy their console when those people just want to buy the game.
They want to have their cake and eat it too, and that is most likely one of the biggest reasons people pirated TOTK.
Go to hell Nintendo. I will never buy anything from them again and I will advise gamers I know to do the same.
And then nobody ever made another emulator for Nintendo products again and this definitely does not foreshadow an endless game of whack-a-mole powered by spite.
Surely not.
Is there still an alternative left for the switch?
Both ryujinx and yuzu are open source, there are loads of forks
Suyu is a fork of Yuzu: https://suyu.dev/
were they able to do some work on emulation already?
Suyu was mismanaged and died very quickly. Sudachi was excellent and has an Android build but the dev is taking a break.
Wow... I had a look at the commit history and it doesn't seem like any actual development is taking place. Just changes and removal of text here and there.
Why put all this energy in to making a website and host a fork when you don't do anything with it?
A major rewrite is pending. He stated this on his Twitter I think.
5 minutes of internet fame.
Steam Deck.
Knew that was coming, at some point... I wonder if anyone grabbed copies of the git repos.
Archive org has it
If anyone has the git repo downloaded, they have a copy of it (from when they last pulled)
I've seen a few floating around.
I'm a bit salty this was apparently announced through Discord. Was it even posted anywhere else?
The future of social media is fragmented siloes, I guess.
I wouldn't have an issue with many different communications platforms if they didn't all require an account (also Discord not being indexable sucks).
Yeah, why don't they send an owl to each interested party?
Some of us like to be contacted via cute and fluffy snow owls...
Imagine not developing a controversial emulator anonymously...
I've always wondered that. Why not just throw a git repo behind I2P or onto IPFS? It's like they want to be attacked.
Attention and recognition.
The last version released is 1.1.1403. Easy to find with a google search.
I'm now pretty sure we got our last Nintendo switch game. I'm not going to buy out kids anything Nintendo anymore. They are the most recent RIAA.
You were buying Switch games but because of something unrelated to your gaming and purchasing habits, you're going to stop your unrelated behavior?
that is typically how boycotts work yes.
Nestle isn't poisoning their bottled water but some people still refuse to buy it.
Yup
I don't even have a single Nintendo or game of any sort. My kids got dupped by YouTube and so now it's either cry or pay for that shit.....a few years ago.... Today though, they are old enough to get pissed at things. I shall explain what Nintendo is doing so that they make better choices in the future.
What doesn't make sense though is why now all of a sudden? They were content to buy Nintendo games up until yesterday, but the Ryujinx takedown, which was amicably agreed upon between Nintendo and the devs, that was the final straw? This just screams disingenuous en vogue Nintendo bashing to me.
People refuse to buy Nestle products because Nestle is a wildly unethical company and its behavior directly affects which products are available to purchase. Nintendo protecting their IP, while sucking for pirates, doesn't violate any known ethical principle. Apples and oranges.
It's not new though, it has been happening for years. Selection bias might be skewing your view.
Are you suggesting that no one is allowed to see Nintendo do a new bad thing and say "I'm no longer willing to give them my money"?
Not to mention there's nothing 'amicable' about a massive corporation, infamous for their lawsuits, approaching a single programmer with a deal that is obviously the only way to avoid being sued, despite the fact that emulators are legal.
If someone purchases a Switch game they have every right to back it up and use an emulator to play it. Instead of strongarming these projects into submission, the ethical thing would be working with them to sell legal access to ROMs.
Never give Nintendo money.
Still on Flathub though.
Yuzu was like that soon after being taken down. I assume Flathub has some sort of delay.
Flathub is still available to whoever needs it
Well that sucks.. I'm still pissed at Roblox for their DRM rug pull on Linux. Didn't stop the bots and hackers for more than two weeks anyways - bet Ryujinx 2.0 will be out soon too.
Anyone know if DRM is cracked on Roblox yet? Just a yes or no I can find it nevermind I'll go look
These asstards really hate fun.
The SWITCH, is my last Nintendo product I will own.
The Steam Deck is the last nintendo console I'll need
And now I regret not copying their repo to our Forgejo instance.
Why is Nintendo in particular this aggressive against emulators? Why haven't we heard of Sony going after PCSX2 and RPCS3, or Microsoft going after Xenia and Xemu?
It is likely due to age and popularity. At this point PCSX2 is the only widely popular emulator you've listed, but is older, in the same way Dolphin is old and less of a concern of harming their limelight. That isn't to say those other emulators aren't making waves lately, but there is a window between age and popularity that makes this software a prime target. Especially emulators for current gen, which has been historically very rare, and when it did exist were no where near as good as CEMU, Yuzu, and Ryujinx were.
I think this also shows how underpowered Nintendo consoles are; the Switch is essentially a slightly upgraded Wii U, which itself was only marginally better than the PS3 and Xbox 360! If Nintendo really wanted to combat piracy, all they had to do was beef up their flagship console to the point where it's hard to emulate.
Because none of those emulate current generation systems.
People act weirdly entitled about Nintendo product, throw shitfits when Nintendo reacts exactly like Sony or Microsoft would to them doing the same thing, then act extra hurt that Nintendo did it.
Now and then I bought Nintendo games for my nephew. This stopped right now.
I mean. I understand the sentiment but I don't think your nephew will understand 😅 you should keep buying games for your nephew bro. I'll stop buying games in his place
How about a link to it instead of a discord screenshot jfc
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/10/switch-emulator-ryujinx-shuts-down-development-after-contact-by-nintendo/
It's the Ryujinx discord. You're looking at a primary source. You linked a secondary source.
Well at least paste the text of the message
I can't wait until you kids grow up and realize you're not entitled to everything.
Ok Boomer
‘Free’ always tastes better. It’s my favourite word. Free. It’s free. For free. 0 dollars. Gratis. Free of cost. On the house. Never had buyers remorse from acquiring something for free
My second favourite is ‘Cheap’
Especially when the cheap or free service is better than the expensive service.
I agree. We should realize the following:
There are things we are not entitled to.
There are things we are entitled to.
There is Nintendo's opinion on which is which.
There's someone else's opinion on which is which.
There's law which should be a dignified compromise between these.
The law may or may not be such a compromise.
Our obligations before law mirror our rights.
Our engagement with law mirrors our participation in forming it.
We have been robbed of that ability and raise our voice where it matters.
Hence Nintendo's opinion and said law don't matter shit.
who said they where entitled to this. Nentendo is the one who is acting entitled, Netendo did not put in any work, employees at nentendo did, but they where not payed the full value of their labor. Copy right for ever and ever was only 20 years now its essentaly forever, no way for these to legaly enter the public domain.
Given the 2 sides I would say Nentendo, who has more money than god, is the entitled ones
Entitled? Nintendo didn't produce this code nor did they make this, what exactly do you think is being demanded of Nintendo?