This is actually a super fascinating example of the way data can be displayed in a technically correct way to lead the viewer to completely invalid conclusions.
It’s even more fascinating how everyone is seriously debating over this meme
Fever is not 100F. A fever is defined as 100.4F. Why 100.4 when 100 is a much easier to remember and handle number? Because fever is defined in humans as 38C, and that converts to 100.4F.
It's been a while but I think they tried to establish 100F as the average human body temperature. But after they established that baseline turns out they were off by 1.4 degrees and couldn't change it.
People's body temperature used to be higher a century ago, but I think it was less then 1°C.
EDIT: Apparently since the early 1800s, men's body temperature changed about 0.59°C and women's about 0.32°C.
That's really interesting. Does anyone know why?
I believe there's a theory that the average person had at least one source of inflammation in their body.
Hasn't the fever temperature changed recently or something
That's a sigfig error. A fever is 38C, which is 2 significant digits. Converting to 100° F goes up an order of magnitude so you get a free sigfig, but unless the original number was 38.0C, you don't get that 0.4, you're implying precision that the original measurement never gave you.
Wow that's funny. I've seen so many people complain about extreme heat below 100 F.
I get that what you're not used to is difficult but like 38 degrees is a relatively ordinary (now) summer day for me.
From how people spoke about it I thought 100 F was more lile 45
I think that if the air is moist enough 38 degrees will overheat the body and kill it. Because the human body sweats to lose heat.
So some regions on earth are probably less pleasant when the temperature rises. While other regions are more tolarable for humans.
So there might be a reason why some people complain that they suffer from the heat. There could also be other reasons like their living conditions. A lack of ac and water, or living in a urban heat hell.
Lets not trivialize experiences of people who suffer.
Oh yeah they open up libraries near me cause otherwise people might cark it.
I'm not trivialising anything, but outside of the tropics you don't need AC to survive those temps. Just keep wetting yourself down and stay out of the sun and you'll be right. Unless you're not in a good state prior.
That's why we're starting to use wet bulb temperature to measure these things. This is the temperature measured with the measuring bulb of the thermometer wet, so it accounts for wind and humidity, and it reflects how humans would feel and survive.
38°C wet bulb is a deadly temperature. Not like you may die if you are unlucky or have specific condition, but like healthy you adult humans die in this weather. Because wind and humidity are such that your body cannot cool itself.
In more temperate or dry places the heat should not be an underestimated danger either. But indeed the danger comes more at 40°C and higher and specific circumstances (stupidity being one of them).
you could still survive by immersing yourself in cool water but yeah.
I think we had a 48 the other year with like 70% humidity and that was interesting. At one point I tried to get something done in the sun and almost immediately started experiencing heat stroke. I ended up going into the bush and lying down in a creek for a while. A surprising number of people had the same idea, it was almost nice except for the whole "wow the Apocalypse is starting" thing.
You can survive with many external means. But that's the thing: you need external means to survive because you cannot survive otherwise in this environment.
And yes, even in dry weather doing work in direct sun when temperature is over 40C is madness. Even a healthy adult can die in this environment. You should at the very least have proper garments and drink a lot.
Keep in mind that a large chunk of the United States is considerably closer to the tropics than Europe is. Washington TC is on roughly the same latitude as Lisbon or Ibiza is. It's not tropical, but climatically it's still considered sub-tropical, and large chunks of the country have the summer heat and humidity to prove it.
I'm not from Europe. I'm from Australia.
ATM I live in temperate rainforest, have spent time in tropical heat up in northern QL.
Until the air gets saturated a lot of ability to cope is a combo of adaptation and conditioning. I wear jeans all year round pretty much and generally don't run into problems as long as I'm drinking water. People less use to heat don't move as much blood to their perpheries, probably don't drink anywhere near enough water, and aren't used to feeling comfortable in wet clothing (from sweat or from wetting yourself down).
I spent some time in Thailand and felt like I had found my people when it was a 30 degree day and I put on a jumper, went outside and saw many others doing the same!
Actually Europe's weather is pretty analogous to the Midwest, thanks to an ocean current dumping lots of warm water to their north. Although that might be changing soon idk
Fun fact. -40 degrees is the same in both C and F, and is also called "January" where I live.
I live in a place that has -40°C winters and +40°C summers now 👍
God I sure do love global warming
yikes. My house is about 6 degrees in winter and that's cold enough for me
You shouldnt let the house go below 14-isch degrees since that would create kondensation that might hurt the structure or promote fungal growth. My house is between 15 to 20 degrees in winter and at 15 I can feel my body stiffen due to cold
If I had a choice mate I wouldn't let it haha. I live in Australia, we make houses that don't qualify as tents in the rest of the world.
No real insulation (tiny amount in roof but downlights punch a hole through it), single glazed windows, doors that don't seal. Power costs too much to run heating :') it's good shit.
I have no more idea where those places are than you have about port Douglas and Jindabyne ;)
Had to do a double take when I read Jindabyne. Nobody ever mentions Jindy online
There are like 1000 permanent residents :p
Nice place but, good lake, near good mountains, pleasant bushland around.
I stay sometimes, it's very timeless. Doesn't feel like it's changed much from when I was a kid.
Houston is the opposite of all those things. Its beaches consistently rank as having the highest fecal contamination in the country. Be glad you know nothing of it.
It really depends on humidity. Humid heat is typically worse and can be really draining both mentally and physically. Dry heat is much more tolerable for humans. As a person who's experienced both I can concur, the 100F humid heat was borderline horrific.
38C/100F is probably fine (relatively) in Arizona but in Florida it'll be pretty terrible. Like when I was in the south for a week it was 98F and the walls were sweating.
Good morning on this beautiful day, 2023-W47‐2T10:26
2023‐325T21:11+00:00
it's extra handy because it taught me how to better visualize the chronological position of minecraft snapshots! 2023w47 has kinda sucked, from what i hear second-hand, due to some accidental features people were excited about being removed as "bugs".
just give me 2023-11-21T21:45:53.02Z and call it a day
Damn, y'all are nerds.
what do you expect on lemmy
Is it just me or do neither ISO8601 nor RFC3339 contain any timestamp formats that are windows file system compliant? There doesn't seem to be a time format that doesn't contain a colon.
I think you're right, but also windows file system is a dumpster fire
When used in casual speech, you drop the year most of the time, so the month comes before the day. just like Americans would say. Don't tell the people that hate how Americans do things, though.
so the month comes before the day. just like Americans would say
Sez you. 1st of January. 14th of February. 25th of December. This is the way and the truth and the light.
Shut up. If you don't know how many buckets there are to a hogshead, that's not our fault.
Smartest statesian
That's medieval units for you. At least they use the same units in the whole country, which is progress compared to how it used to be in the rest of the medieval world. They just didn't take the last step to modernity.
It's not even our system. We adopted the system of our oppressors that kept it long after they abandoned it.
Imperial is not American, some might call it unAmerican
Tbh I don't really get why people get upset about mm/dd/yyyy vs dd/mm/yyyy. Is it a little weird? Sure, but personally, saying "July 4th, 1776" feels as natural as "the 4th of July, 1776". The former is more formal, the latter is more casual.
People don't get upset about saying the date in whatever format. They get upset when you write it in that format without specifying, so that you don't know if 07/04/1776 is July 4th or April 7th.
I love it when someone sends me a message like this:
Hey there! What are you doing on 4/5?
????
What's especially bad is things that are meant for an international audience. Like the 2023 Miami Formula 1 race was held the weekend of the 5th to the 7th of May. But, say you didn't know that and you see that the date is specified as: 05/07/2023. Is that a race in May or July? It's Formula 1 so the audience is probably mostly European so the European order makes sense. But, it's a race in the USA so the US order makes sense.
It really sucks when to decode a date and time you have to first figure out who the target audience for the information is, then use that to help decode the information.
One word: Ambiguity. We need to either have a standard and stick to it, or a small handful of standards that cannot be confused for each other. DD/MM/YYYY and MM/DD/YYYY can be confused for each other, so the nonsensical MM/DD/YYYY should move over and make room for DD/MM/YYYY, or we should drop both and just use YYYY-MM-DD.
ISO 8601 ALL DAY EVERY DAY BABY
While it's fine now, it used to be pretty disgusting too
Fooking disgusteen
ISO 8601 for life.
Or DD-MMM-YYYY. Like 05/OCT/2005, which is my favorite if I don't need it to be entirely numerical.
That's fine because it's unambiguous. If I'm using another standard and you're using that, I can correct it without having to think about it.
It's not about saying it. It has to do with ordering it by size of time unit. Like I don't write the time as 43:12:19 to denote 43 minutes and 19 seconds past midday do I.
If it’s about size of time unit surely it should be 2023/11/20?
ISO8601 is the best format and the international standard to denote date and time.
2023-11-21T00:34:2
I'm not sure I would agree with that. ISO-8601 is ambiguous, and very difficult to parse. For example, here are a couple valid ISO-8601 strings. Could you let me know what they mean?
Taken from here. My favorite is the last one (20). If someone just wrote 20 and told you to parse it using ISO-8601, what would you get? Hour? It could even be century (ie. 2023%100)!!
So I would argue that ISO-8601 is just a wee bit too flexible. Personally, I like RFC 3339 just a bit more...
Edit: that said, I would definitely agree that something along the lines of 2021-07-27T14:20:32Z is better than any regularly accepted alternative, and I pretty much format my dates that way all the time.
to be fair, you don't parse "20" without first passing "%C"
A period of one day and one hour.
A period of one year, ten times, from the 208th day of 2021.
Ten hours and 18 minutes pm (I'm not sure about this one) on UTC+08:00 (China, for example).
IDK.
The 2nd day of the 30th week of 2021.
Same as above, but at 22:00 in China, probably.
A period of one year.
IDK.
Don’t think my bank will like it if I date forms with that.
Mine doesn't care. It actually never occurred to me not to.
Yes, and it is used only with dashes instead of slashes. This is also how date is written when you want alphabetical sorting to work on the date, too
Not necessarily. Size of time unit doesn't explicitly mean largest to smallest. For human comprehension day first makes sense because that's the most significant piece of data usually. Likewise for time of day the hour is the most significant piece of data.
Though for computer comprehension, absolutely yyyy/mm/dd is best hands down.
I don't understand why it matters how you say the date vs. how it's written with slashes.
If someone asks you the time, and you look at your watch and it says 11:45, you could just answer "eleven forty five", but depending on the context you might just say "It's noon" or "It's almost noon" or "It's a quarter to noon". 11:45 is how you get the information into your brain. How you process that information and how you pass it on depends on the context.
The best date format is clearly ISO-8601, YYYY-MM-DD. In that format, US independence day is 1776-07-04. But, you don't need to say it as "seventeen seventy six, seventh month, fourth day". You can say "July 4th, 1776" or "The 4th of July, 1776".
Because when usually dates formatted on number follow a descending or ascending order. Year -> Month -> Day or Day -> Month -> Year.
mm/dd/yyyy is:
-- Month <- Day | Year <-
It's not only strange but is also not easy to parse and can be confused with dd/mm/yyyy
Because they're teenagers. In the real world nobody actually gives a fuck. Call me weird, but the different formats have never caused me a single instant of confusion in my entire life.
As a developer, this has been an annoying and oftentimes confusing source of additional work for me.
You must do a lot of business with overseas people. It causes confusion pretty often
Possibly not even outside their county.
Nope. Never. Every time people are easily able to figure it out in a matter of seconds.
In the grand scale of things it's probably one of the least important things I can think of.
Ok, what date is 05/05/2024? Figure it out. And you have to pay me by then.
Simple, just pay it by 04/04/2024, that way it has 31 days of processing time
Crap I see what I wrote, misfire. Meant 05/03
Yup. I use ISO 8601 for any record keeping, but much like how I don't bother with good spelling and grammer it doesn't matter in comments on the internet
As an American immigrant in Germany, I encounter it somewhat regularly and it still doesn’t matter.
It was a bit of a problem when they thought I forged my covid vaccination card, because I got a shot on January tenth or something. I would then explain that I’m American and we do that. 80% of the time, they had no more questions, 20% of the time I’d show my drivers license birthday for proof (luckily I was born after the 12th).
The things that are actually problematic are the unknown tools used for my dental work (my implant screw is going to need to get a custom screwdriver made for it), and understanding temperature at an intuitive level. I understand the common weather numbers, but do I want coffee that’s 55 degrees or 70 degrees? No idea until I convert. Luckily, it’s the easiest conversion to do.
Not once on my life have i known what temperature my coffee is or should be.
That’s fair. I work at a bakery and make a lot of coffee in Celsius
I don't really care which way it goes, it just gets confusing if both month and date are 12 or lower and the format wasn't specified ahead of time
Yeah. Had issues getting ID when I first came to US. They mixed up my date of birth, and I needed to go get it corrected. I didn't even notice it until I almost missed a flight trying to use that ID, which didn't match with their system. Fortunately I also had my passport with me.
Different languages. In German you never say "Juli der 4." it's always "der 4. Juli". (I am sure someone will proof me wrong by digging up some weird old text, but it's still never used in day to day conversation)
I assume it's similar for other languages as well.
So when you need to guess what 10-04-2024 means, it matters a lot
I think the two points missing from most debates are
The imperial system does a damn good job at measuring things the way a human would. A foot is roughly the length of a big foot. A single degree farenheit is just big enough that you could guesstimate it with enough practice. If the temperatures are negative, you dump sand on the roads instead of salt.
It's like seven units of measurement in a trenchant. You never have to convert gallons to cubic miles. You never have to convert from dots to angstoms, and nobody has ever had to convert the surveyors mile to the nautical mile. It feels schizophrenic because claiming it's one singular system is like saying Italian, French, and Portuguese languages are all regional dialects of Europeanese.
My point isn't "it's not a bug, it's a feature", I'm saying for the average non-scientist there may be a logical reason why we like it so much
Yeah. You're used to it
No no. The rest of the world is constantly out of sorts on what common measurements are. It's like how monolingual non-English-speaking people are constantly aware they're not speaking the natural language of English.
The temperature measurement is true though. F describes the temperature scale that humans interact with much better than C does.
Kind of, but not really. 0F doesn’t mean anything special in relation to human interaction, it relates to the freezing point of some random salt and water mixture (not seawater). 32 is a random number for the freezing point of freshwater which humans do care about, and 212 is nonsense for boiling temp of water which humans also care about and routinely use. The only part pertinent is that 100 is close to, but higher than human body temperature, but not quite where it counts as a fever… just the temperature of a sub-feverish human… how is that helpful! Sorry I really don’t care for the Fahrenheit system and I’m prepared to die on this hill
0 F is really cold to a human (but still livable), and 100 F is really hot to a human (but still livable). I honestly don't really care what temperature water boils at in my every day life. I know that if I put fire under a pot of water, it will boil eventually. Why would I need to know the exact temperature?
Cooking
Do you add pasta when the water is boiling or do you add pasta when it's 100°C? Because right now the boilng point of water for my location is 95.23°C. If I were to go skiing and wanted to boil some instant Ramen does it matter that the boiling point is 90.04°C in Leadville, CO? Or do I just put some water on the stove and wait till it boils?
Coffee brewing, if I used boiling water my coffee would taste "burnt", but if I use 80°C or so of hot water, it tastes perfect.
huh. I use an expensive coffee maker precisely because it heats just shy of boiling, 202 degrees/like 94c, and it turns out way better coffee than the 85 ish degree machines.
Depends on your coffee, brewing method, etc
For coffee machines the temperature doesn't matter as much, but for pour over, and some other filter coffee methods it can be important to measure water temperature.
It absolutely matters, it's why I paid so much. Walmart was selling a 50 dollar machine did the same thing, but the machines broke inside of 2 weeks. It made such good coffee I just returned it over and over till the customer service lady told me (she knew my name at this point) they'd returned what was left of the pallet. 300 dollar Zojirusha does the same thing and its a few years old now. Tried a few machines in between, just made mud it felt like, I've been ruined for crappy coffee tolerance.
Fair enough, there actually are a lot of terrible coffee machines available, especially in the US I guess. I am much more limited in what I can get, and so I end up having to do a lot more research (I do mean months of research), especially as the culture here is different for purchasing and returning things.
I'm not American, did some research, ordered it off Amazon.
You mentioned Walmart, so I assumed that, sorry.
Explain how it's useful in cooking. Considering it doesn't actually boil at 100 degrees unless there's very specific environmental conditions
Hard disagree. 0°F is colder than the pont it stopped being cool, but not yet really cold. 100°F is many degrees into dying of melting, but also a few degrees short of a fever worth noting.
I don't think I've ever seen either 0°F or 100°F used in any way to refer to actually temperature. It's always defining the scale or comparing to °C. Maybe once when checking for a fever.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen either 0°F or 100°F used in any way to refer to actually temperature. It’s always defining the scale or comparing to °C. Maybe once when checking for a fever.
What? Are you actually from somewhere that uses F? Because what kind of argument is this? You're saying that 0F isn't "really cold"? That's a very specific take likely based on the very specific region you live in. The vast majority of the world would call 0F "really cold".
And likewise, as someone from arizona, 100F is hot but not "really hot". That doesn't start until after 110 or 115. So in general, out of the entire world, 0-100 is a pretty good range of "really cold" to "really hot". Only the people who live in the specific places that regularly get much colder or hotter actually care. To most people, it doesn't really matter if it's 0 or -10 or -15, it's all too fucking cold. Just like to you 100 or 110 or 115 doesn't matter, it's all too hot.
The limits of "hot" and "cold" change with location and personal experience. 0°F is shorts weather for some, while 70°F is jacket time for others. Both live in my neighborhood.
There are hundreds of millions of people who see negative double digits every year, and billions of people who have never seen snow (Mumbai has never seen below 50°F!). There is no scale that can claim to cover human's experience of temperature in general, but some scales can be useful.
The exact numbers don't matter to people anyway, no one sees 70°F and estimates 70% hot, just like most of the world knows what 22°C means, even if it never freezes there. We could measure in yoctojoules (40.7) or simply relative to what the pope feels is hot and cold (85?). For daily use all temperature scales are arbitrary. Why not use one that's useful?
0°F is shorts weather for some
Only for those with medical issues or those being obstinate. It's not a relevant data point when trying to agree on a scale. 99.9% of people will agree 0F = cold as fuck.
There are hundreds of millions of people who see negative double digits every year
So? The difference between 0F and -10F and -25F aren't THAT significant. The VAST majority of people will treat those temperatures as similar unless they're preparing for an outdoor adventure or something. But the difference between 65 and 75 is HUGE to most people that WILL impact how they prepare for interacting with the environment.
For daily use all temperature scales are arbitrary. Why not use one that’s useful?
This is just not accurate and is pure cope. A scale that's 0-100 for the most important temperatures that humans interact with is an objectively good scale. With 10 degree bands that align pretty well to general human comfort and indicate the type of preparation required. Sure, some people might consider 60s t-shirt weather, but the point is the band is still relevant. 60-70, 70-80, 80-90. Those are useful, meaningful temperature ranges where the temperature inside those bands is similar enough
0 F is really cold to a human (but still livable), and 100 F is really hot to a human (but still livable)
Oh wow two numbers with a really fuzzy meaning, how convenient
I honestly don’t really care what temperature water boils at in my every day life
How about freezing? Super useful info in places that have snow and ice
32 is a random number for the freezing point of freshwater which humans do care about, and 212 is nonsense for boiling temp of water which humans also care about and routinely use.
Humans care about the fact that water boils or freezes. Not the temperature at which it happens
Sorry I really don’t care for the Fahrenheit system and I’m prepared to die on this hill
I'm prepared to die on the Farenheit system is better for describing environmental temperature hill
Friend, what in Sam Hill are you on about? Celsius is obviously better for boiling water: It takes a lot more degrees to reach 212 than it does 100, so I get my ramen a lot sooner when boiling water in Celsius!
::: spoiler since text loses the emotional content of speech
this is a joke
:::
No no, this guy's got a point!
Humans care about the fact that water boils or freezes. Not the temperature at which it happens
What? Humans care a whole lot about the temperature at which both those things happen.
When I go outside in the morning, I know if road conditions are dangerous based on the freezing point of temperature.
When I cook something, the boiling point of water is something I can easily recognise just by looking, which allows me to use temperatures around and below it for many purposes.
What? Humans care a whole lot about the temperature at which both those things happen.
Explain how
When I go outside in the morning, I know if road conditions are dangerous based on the freezing point of temperature.
You're getting a false sense of security. Do you think -1C = dangerous and 1C = safe or something?
When I cook something, the boiling point of water is something I can easily recognise just by looking, which allows me to use temperatures around and below it for many purposes.
Wtf? Explain how
Explain how
You mean the way I did in the parts you quoted after writing this?
You're getting a false sense of security. Do you think -1C = dangerous and 1C = safe or something?
No? Did I write that? I know the freezing point of water, so I know when I have to be careful. That's not strictly at the freezing point of water, but it is around that.
Wtf? Explain how
You should try to write actual questions, because I'm not sure what you're confused about. Say I want to water around 80-90°C - I heat water to boiling and then wait a bit. What's so difficult?
212 and 100 are both equally random numbers. There's nothing special about either. Besides, water boils about 205/95 on my hill.
No, 212 and 100 are not equally random. Unless you're trying to say that literally all numbers are equally random, 100 in the decimal system is much less random that 212.
Assigning the number 100 to the temperature pure water boils at sea level under specific conditions is as random as it gets. At least Farenheit numbers were based on a chemical concoction that exhibits the same temperature output regardless of elevation or pressure that they used to calibrate.
Assigning the number 100 to the temperature pure water boils at sea level under specific conditions is as random as it gets.
No, it's literally not. 212 is much more random. Any number like 10, 100, 1000 etc. is less random than any other number, simply by virtue of our decimal system. Just like 2,4, 8 etc. are less random in a binary system.
This isn't kilometers, area, volume, distant measurement. It's temperature. What that 100 is based on is random as fuck, and having the temperature of one elements boiling point at sea level divisible by 10 doesn't really help anything. There is a 100 degree point in Farenhenheit too, you could simply use that for...well whatever reason you need ten to go in evenly.
My guy, I'm not arguing whether the boiling temperature of water is a random point (because it isn't random in any way, and I'm not interested in arguing that). I'm arguing one simple thing: assigning something on a scale to 100 is much less random than assigning it to 212.
I don't think you have a very clear grasp on what random means, and 212 wasn't assigned.
You have no understanding of randomness if you think that 100 is equally random as 212 in our decimal system. No, not every number is equally random, no matter how often you repeat it.
I understand you have a fetish for numbers that are multiples of ten, but that doesn't make them special. Picking a number out of a hat is as likely to be a 9 as a 100.
Acknowledging that powers of a number systems base are special in that system isn't something I ever thought people would disagree with.
Why do you think we have concepts like "percentages"?
F describes the temperature scale that humans interact with much better than C does.
Only because you grew up with it.
I have only had the temperature described to me in celcius so Fahrenhite makes no sense to me.
I have only had the temperature described to me in celcius so Fahrenhite makes no sense to me.
What doesn't make sense to you. You can think of F as a percentage of how hot it is. 0 is 0% hot, meaning cold as fuck. 100 is 100% hot, hot as fuck. Things in the middle are are in the middle. 85 is 85% hot.
So 50 F is the ideal temperature?
Why do you just assume 50% is the ideal?
If 0 F is 0 % hot, and 100 F is 100 % hot; shouldn't 50 F be the Goldilocks ideal of neither too hot or too cold at 50 %?
And if 50 F isn't the Goldilocks ideal, then where on the scale is it?
That would depend on personal preference. Somewhere around the 70-80 mark most likely.
You're assuming humans have no preference for it being hot or cold. That's the only way 50% would make more sense. But most people prefer it warm
My assumption was that a temperature scale for the human experience would place the ideal temperature around the middle, and not towards too hot. Would it improve such a scale if the 0 F was closer where 20 or 30 is currently, so that 70-80 is more centered? Is 0 F the perfect point for where it's unacceptably cold for a human, or could it have been shifted up or down the scale?
And -5 farenheit is.. just a bit colder than fuck? I understand what temperatures I start feeling cold perfectly well in Celsius, I know roughly when I'll need a jacket, when I'll need a hat and scarf... Farenheit tells me nothing because I don't know about it. Sure, 0 is very cold, but where is "cold enough to wear a jacket"? It's most likely never going to reach 0°F where I live, and it won't reach 100°F outside of very rare summer days... Beyond those extremes it's not useful to me because I don't know it.
Sure, 0 is very cold, but where is “cold enough to wear a jacket”?
This is going to vary depending on everyone. I start wearing a jacket at around 60. My wife starts at like 75. So neither system is going to be able to tell you that information
Checks temp converter
Lol. 80F is approximately 26C. That's considered mild where I live.
So yeah. Makes fuckall sense to people who've grown up with temperature mentioned in Celcius everywhere.
How does this refute anything in my comment? 80% is fairly "mild". When 100% i "as hot as it can be", and 0 is "as cold as it can be", 80% is a pretty good temperature.
5/7 comment
Lol can't tell, is this 85% stupid or closer to 100?
Are percentages too hard for you?
Not nearly as hard as you are working to represent F in chat about personal preference
I WILL die on this hill. But preference is just what you do with the information, not the usefulness of the scale. 0-100 is the scale. Whether you wear jackets at 50-60 or 60-70 doesn't mean that the scale isn't objectively better.
Oh yea I think I do agree with you that the C scale is objectively better.
Cope harder. F is objectively better for environment. C is objectively better for scientific calculation
Oof you really trying to get others to die on that hill with ya huh?
You're objectively dumb
What about 102? Or 3000 (for metals)?
102%, aka hot as fuck. The whole point is that it describes human environmental temperature. If you're dealing with melting metals, that's a scientific application and C would be the better choice
The fever temperature, maybe. But the rest makes more sense in C. It's so much easier when 0C is freezing and 100C is boiling. It works with cooking. Counting in increments of 5 or 10 also works for weather.
<0C = below freezing
0-10C = cold
10-20C = cool (sweater or hoodie)
20-30C = t-shirt weather
30C and above = hot
It’s so much easier when 0C is freezing and 100C is boiling. It works with cooking.
Explain how this is useful in cooking
20-30C = t-shirt weather
68 to 86 is a GIGANTIC difference. 68 is cold for many many people, certainly not "t-shirt weather". and 86 is hot, much more than "t-shirt weather".
Who bundles up in 68F? It's literally room temperature
Also it's useful in cooking because it's an actual, useful scale. You know when it's 90C it's about to be boiling, just makes no sense why you gotta memorize 212F. Random number and all
Never said "bundling up". But that 10 degree range is so big as to be useless. 68 is not in the same category as 86.
You know when it’s 90C it’s about to be boiling, just makes no sense why you gotta memorize 212F.
What? How often are you putting thermometers in whatever it is you're boiling? You just heat it until it boils. It doesn't matter what the number is.
Thank you for making sense lol. Who's putting a meat thermometer in water to make sure it's boiling? It's boiling when it's boiling.
people actually use boiling water to calibrate their meat thermometers, but they always forget to check their elevation. boiling point here is 205 degrees, and 7 degrees matters when say chicken is safe at 160 but you actually pulled it off at 155
i dunno, 68F on a cloudy windy day isn't as pleasant as 68F and sunny.
But then again I'm from Ohio and I won't bother to put on so much as a vest until it hits 50s
100 is absolutely a random number, just fetishized.
68f is for sure t-shirt weather. 86f is for sure T-shirt weather.
Who TF bundles up if it's 86 deg.
Super confused, you bundle up at 68f for normal ideal summer temps? Or is 68-86 Gigantic enough you need long sleeves? Or like just low keyed afraid are you of the outdoors at 20c? Spoiler alert... It's nice?
68f is for sure t-shirt weather.
68 is not t-shirt weather for a lot of people.
What is this about "bundling up"? Literally no one said anything about bundling up. But 68 and 86 are just fundamentally different temperature categories.
you bundle up at 68f for normal ideal summer temps? Or is 68-86 Gigantic enough you need long sleeves?
68 means you may or may not need a jacket, depending on the wind, fog, etc. It also means you should probably carry a jacket because it's likely to drop down below "t-shirt" weather when the sun goes down. 86 means you'll likely not need a jacket at all, even at night. And it means the wind will be refreshing rather than biting. And it might mean shorts as well.
Like, I just don't believe that you can't understand how 68 and 86 are fundamentally different temperature categories
68 is shorts and T-shirt weather in my part of the world. No one carries a jacket around if it's that warm. Maybe it's cold to you if you live between the tropics? I can't speak to that
20-30c is a cool shortcut that F doesn't really have. The original comment is just a decent guideline and "I just don't believe that you can't understand" what a guideline is.
But if you need all this stuff to exist outside in nice weather maybe a quick guideline is not for you...
20-30c is a cool shortcut that F doesn’t really have.
What kind of shortcut? 68-80 are so massively different. Even if 68 is shorts and t-shirt for you, that means 86 is "uncomfortably hot". And even if 68 is t-shirt weather, it means at night it's going to drop probalby 10 degrees. So 68 is "tshirt weather right now, but bring a jacket", and 86 is "tshirt weather but leave the jacket at home". and the 10 degree bands of F are perfect for that. 60s is "cool, may or may not require a jacket depending on your preference". 70s is "nice right now but prepare for cool when the sun goes down", 80s is "warm, don't bring a jacket", etc.
So sure, we don't have the "20-30c" shortcut (again, way too big to be useful). We have EVERY 10 degree band as a shortcut
68-80 are similar temps. I'm comfy at both. I wear the same thing outdoors at both temps.
I'm sorry you don't I guess and are offended that someone else is different than you.
20-30 is easier to understand than 68-80 for most people (obviously there's an exception)
Yes, 68 to 80 are somewhat similar. I obviously meant 68-86.
But 68-80 IS similar, and it's exactly why F is better, because we have the 70-80 band. But that's exactly the point, 68 and 86 are NOT similar temps, hence being in separate 80-90 band.
Yes obviously.
If you read the discussion that you were actually having to me, we were obviously talking about 20-30c, which is 68-86F. And it was mentioned several times in this thread. And the context of my reply made it abundantly clear I meant 68-86
Yes I mistyped 80vs86. but that percentage of 100 is similar enough that I can't really tell the difference.
I was agreeing that 68 and 86 are both T-shirt weather. Still is to most folks. I get it you're not most folks.
I'm imagining your place as just filled with coats and thermometers that you care about this to such an extent.
This is a funny argument I see from Yanks all the time.
Someone teach these Yanks about negative numbers, please!
What do negative numbers have to do with anything? -1F = cold as fuck
. F describes the temperature scale that humans interact with much better than C does.
Usually this silly argument is about 0-100 thing. But Yanks don't seem to understand that you can do negative numbers, you don't have to be within 0-100 range.
Yes, negative numbers exist, and numbers beyond 100. But they're not that important. 0 is basically the lowest temperature that matters in day to day life. If it's colder, you don't do anything different unless you're preparing for an outdoor adventure. Same with 100. 100 is the hottest temperature that makes a difference. Beyond 100 it only matters if you're preparing for an outdoor adventure. The 100 degree scale is about describing the normal range that humans interact with their environment in. Even if it can get extreme beyond that, that doesn't mean the 0-100 scale isn't useful.
Yes, negative numbers exist, and numbers beyond 100. But they’re not that important.
They kinda are though lol.
The 100 degree scale is about describing the normal range that humans interact with their environment in
But what about sauna. What about really cold weather. What about cooking. Hell, what about my PC. What about when I have a fever. What about really hot weather... The temperatures are about much more than the fuzzy idea about normal-ish weather in certain places on earth.
Even if it can get extreme beyond that, that doesn’t mean the 0-100 scale isn’t useful.
It just means it doesn't have much benefit to it at all. The whole argument for it is silly.
Ps I'm starting think Fal is losing it in this comment section...
They've started a holy war to preach the benefit of staying between 0-100. I admire their conviction, even if I think their argument is nonsense.
Ehhhh conviction isn't super admirable if it's something stupid.
I don't think a flat earther's conviction is admirable.
But at least theyre less stupid than flat earthers... So far...
It's admirable in the "I love internet drama" sense. I love it when people feel super strongly about something that doesn't matter.
Oh I gotcha now, agreed
They kinda are though lol.
Not really. Explain what you do differently in -10F temperatures that you wouldn't do in 0F temperatures in normal life. I don't want to hear about how you would choose a different sleeping bag or prepare your snow shoes differently or some shit. When your day consists of commuting to work, going to the grocery store, then going home, what meaningful difference do any values below 0F have.
But what about sauna.
What about it?
What about really cold weather.
What about it?
What about cooking.
What about it?
Hell, what about my PC.
What about it?
What about when I have a fever
This is actually the perfect example. Above 100 is a fever. Below is fine
What about really hot weather
What about it?
The temperatures are about much more than the fuzzy idea about normal-ish weather in certain places on earth.
Not in 99% of how people use the temperature.
And your examples of cooking and your PC are not what we're talking about. We're talking about human environmental temperature. But in fact, cooking is another good use for F. You generally only care about a few specific temps. 350F and 400F. Anything else is nuance but basically only matter on the 25 degree marks. So 375, 425. It's actually a pretty great scale for cooking, with broiling generally maxing out at 500 (unless you're talking very specific application, like pizza ovens or some shit)
Yes, negative numbers exist, and numbers beyond 100. But they’re not that important.
The 100 degree scale is about describing the normal range that humans interact with their environment in
"Well what about all these things outside of this range people use in their daily life?"
What about it?
LOL
And your examples of cooking and your PC are not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about human environmental temperature.
I'm making the case that your "human environmental temperature" is a shit reason to pick Fahrenheit because we have all these things that surprisingly don't conform to it. So you'll have to go outside the 0-100 range anyway. So you won't get any "benefit" from it, even when the "benefit" was dubious to begin with.
But in fact, cooking is another good use for F. You generally only care about a few specific temps. 350F and 400F. Anything else is nuance but basically only matter on the 25 degree marks. So 375, 425. It’s actually a pretty great scale for cooking, with broiling generally maxing out at 500 (unless you’re talking very specific application, like pizza ovens or some shit)
Wait till you see international ovens and cooking manuals. It's gonna blow your mind.
I’m making the case that your “human environmental temperature” is a shit reason to pick Fahrenheit because we have all these things that surprisingly don’t conform to it. So you’ll have to go outside the 0-100 range anyway. So you won’t get any “benefit” from it, even when the “benefit” was dubious to begin with.
It's better to pick the scale that does conform to it for the vast majority of applications, and then just deal with the others. Either by using C or just dealing with it. For every 1 time you need to deal with temps of your computer, you'll interact with the environmental temperature a thousand times. And neither C or F are inherently better for describing CPU temps.
Wait till you see international ovens and cooking manuals. It’s gonna blow your mind.
Oh, I forgot to pull out my cooking manual. Yeah C is MUCH better.
Okay we can all go home. Fal says "C is MUCH better." Argument over
Fal has released us poor souls from this torment. Blessed be.
It’s better to pick the scale that does conform to it for the vast majority of applications, and then just deal with the others. Either by using C or just dealing with it. For every 1 time you need to deal with temps of your computer, you’ll interact with the environmental temperature a thousand times. And neither C or F are inherently better for describing CPU temps.
I mean neither conforms very well, that's the whole point. And what's the deal with 0-100, why is that so beneficial in your opinion?
And neither C or F are inherently better for describing CPU temps.
Well yeah, it was simply about the 0-100 thing.
Oh, I forgot to pull out my cooking manual. Yeah C is MUCH better.
Wait till you see the ovens. It's incredible. There's usually few temps you need to care about and it changes in 20 degree marks. Incredible, I know.
Wait til you learn that there are other things to do in life than bitch about temperature systems.
This would probably be more impactful if you didn't just jump into a discussion that didn't involve you to make this observation lol
I like how you respond to somebody saying you're bitching by bitching more. Continue crying about it by yourself, please.
You replied to me, unprompted. Can't go complaining I replied after that, that'd be silly
You forgot to consider that people interact with ovens and freezers
Explain how interacting with ovens and freezers requires knowledge of the specific temperature at which water freezes or boils at standard conditions
Same with feet and inches for distance.
Rubbish. The rest of the world understands temperatures in Celsius perfectly well. You're confusing familiarity with superiority
Mother tell the children not to check the temps. Tell the children not to read my books what they mean what they say.
Sorry i read Danzig so I though of the band
Glenn was named after Gdansk, not the other way round 🤘
WHAT THE FUCK IS A KILOMETER 😡😡😡😡
Communists.
Americans saying that F° is a more human and relatable temperature measurement, how many times have you been to Dantzig in the 18th century again? Do you even know where Dantzig is?
Because i've seen water freezing quite a few times before.
I thought 0F was the freezing point of brine.
Nope, it's -6°F, or -21,1°C.
Hard agree with metric for the most part. I forever stand by Fahrenheit for temperatures you experience, and Celsius for science. I don't want to have to use decimals in my everyday life, but that's just me
And really, K is the ideal temperature unit for scientific purposes, since there's actually a hard starting point, rather than picking an arbitrary state change at an arbitrary pressure of a kind of arbitrary compound.
The measurement for temperatures you experience really does not matter outside of what you're used to, do you think non-Americans get confused about how cold 6°C or 23°C is?
Temperature scale doesn't matter in daily life, so I hate that there's always this argument about which scale makes more sense. Knowing what a given temperature feels like is no more difficult than remembering that water freezes at 32 degrees fahrenheit and boils at 212.
I'm all for a system based around multiples of 10, but for temperature, even Celsius isn't done that way, other than 0 and 100.
Which is why Kelvin is superior.
Every temperature scale in our usual range is pretty arbitrary at the end of the day, but you have to admit that the fixpoints of Fahrenheit are particularly useless in everyday life.
Americans always say they prever Fahrenheit over Celsius because the measurment is more exact. Also Americans: "The weather is in the fifties today.“
They just like to find excuses why they prefer the things that they are used to. It's human nature.
Celcius. Water freezes at 0 and boils at 100
Pretty good frame of reference
It gets way easier for "feel" of weather too! In most habitable places in the world, 0°C is around as cold as you'll regularly see (also a handy number for when you need to watch for ice). Similarly, 40°C is around as high as most habitable places get, also a nice easy number to work with.
In fahrenheit, these numbers are 30 and 105, I mean I can get rounding down for ease of use but you're moving the reference points a lot to make it 25 to 100 for what you usually see and that's certainly not more intuitive than 0-40
Consider it as a general scale from 0-100. First third is freezing, second third is alright, the rest is kinda bleh. Above or below the scale, take caution when you're outside
Especially considering we are water
You forgot about the arbitrary "standard" pressure part and missed the point by a light second.
I didnt forget, i said pretty good frame of reference because it didnt feel necessary given the context of people using it for real world everyday things. Which is typically at "fuck it, close enough" for most people to not have to worry about
If i said perfect, excellent, amazing, the best then i might concede your point, but i didnt so i dont however correct you are that there are other factors that can change the points of reference
I don't want to use decimals in my everyday life
Don't you use decimals for prices already?
They do but they don't matter because of sales tax and tips.
Yup. Being at the store is just a guessing game until the tax gets added. And then I just swipe the card lol
1776-07-04 gang
Logic of America
Like most things we have it's not even ours.
I hate it
I'll grant that farenheit has merit, but for me, the foot/inches distance works a bit better for casual measurements, and stuff that doesn't have to be very precise.
Beyond maybe someone's height, I'd rather work in metric. I'm also very much in favor of celsius and I still have trouble converting between the temperature scales. I grew up with temps in degrees C, and height and some sort distances in feet/inches. IDK, I'm weird.
The date thing drives me nuts though.
I've adopted year month day as the superior sorting method
This is the only way. DD-MM or MM-DD is confusing when it's something like 12-03-2023. Is it December 3 or March 12?
It's confusing because of USA, if they applied what everyone in the world uses it wouldn't really be a problem.
Beer was the only drink you could get in prole pubs. The proles were supposed not to drink gin, though in practice they could get hold of it easily enough. The game of darts was in full swing again, and the knot of men at the bar had begun talking about lottery tickets. Winston's presence was forgotten for a moment. There was a deal table under the window where he and the old man could talk without fear of being overheard. It was horribly dangerous, but at any rate there was no telescreen in the room, a point he had made sure of as soon as he came in.
"E could 'a drawed me off a pint,' grumbled the old man as he settled down behind a glass. 'A 'alf litre ain't enough. It don't satisfy. And a 'ole litre's too much. It starts my bladder running. Let alone the price.'
'You must have seen great changes since you were a young man,' said Winston tentatively.
The old man's pale blue eyes moved from the darts board to the bar, and from the bar to the door of the Gents, as though it were in the bar-room that he expected the changes to have occurred.
'The beer was better,' he said finally. 'And cheaper! When I was a young man, mild beer -- wallop we used to call it -- was fourpence a pint. That was before the war, of course.'
-1984
this is bait. picking arbitrary points of comparison where one looks clean and the other sloppy. who cares about 8.3 feet or Danzig?
Check the community, mate.
yes it's 196 where people post random shit and it's blohaj zone so we're all gay. still bait 🪤
Wooooooosh
If the USA wants a system of measurement based entirely on water for temperature and mass, and distance as one millionth of the distance from the equator to the pole, then I'm sure they'll call.
How many meters are in 13.2 km?
13,200
How many feet are in 13.2 mi?
Break out a calculator
Why is my country so arrogant that they will argue for an objectively worse measurement system?
This is actually a super fascinating example of the way data can be displayed in a technically correct way to lead the viewer to completely invalid conclusions.
It’s even more fascinating how everyone is seriously debating over this meme
Fever is not 100F. A fever is defined as 100.4F. Why 100.4 when 100 is a much easier to remember and handle number? Because fever is defined in humans as 38C, and that converts to 100.4F.
It's been a while but I think they tried to establish 100F as the average human body temperature. But after they established that baseline turns out they were off by 1.4 degrees and couldn't change it.
People's body temperature used to be higher a century ago, but I think it was less then 1°C.
EDIT: Apparently since the early 1800s, men's body temperature changed about 0.59°C and women's about 0.32°C.
That's really interesting. Does anyone know why?
I believe there's a theory that the average person had at least one source of inflammation in their body.
Hasn't the fever temperature changed recently or something
That's a sigfig error. A fever is 38C, which is 2 significant digits. Converting to 100° F goes up an order of magnitude so you get a free sigfig, but unless the original number was 38.0C, you don't get that 0.4, you're implying precision that the original measurement never gave you.
Who defines it like that? I'm asking because I wouldn't be surprised if the definition differs between orgs
It's actually an irrational number, but for most purposes 100.4159F is a perfectly reasonable approximation.
No I was wondering who defines it as 37C/100.4F
IUPAC
°F and °C, unless you're speaking of Coulomb and Farad.
“Inches in 8.33 feet”
“Mm in a foot”
Fool, the scientist in me is infuriated. Good work, mate!
This is one of the most stupid things I've ever seen. Good job.
Saturday Night Live actually had a good sketch about this a few weeks ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYqfVE-fykk
Washington: "We fight for a nation where we choose our own laws... choose our own leaders... and choose our own systems of weights and measures.
I dream that one day, our proud nation will measure weights in pounds, and that 2000 pounds shall be called a ton."
Rebel: "And what will 1000 pounds be called sir?"
Washington: "Nothing. Cause will have no word for that."
...
Washington: "Distance will be measured in inches, feet, yards and miles. 12 inches to a foot!"
Rebel: "12 feet to a yard..."
Washington: "If only it were so simple. 3 feet to a yard."
Rebel: "And how many yards to a mile?"
Washington: "Nobody knows."
Rebel: "Ok, how many feet to a mile?"
Washington: "5280, of course! It's a simple number that everyone will remember."
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=JYqfVE-fykk
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
wait 100 F is only 38 degrees?
Wow that's funny. I've seen so many people complain about extreme heat below 100 F.
I get that what you're not used to is difficult but like 38 degrees is a relatively ordinary (now) summer day for me.
From how people spoke about it I thought 100 F was more lile 45
I think that if the air is moist enough 38 degrees will overheat the body and kill it. Because the human body sweats to lose heat.
So some regions on earth are probably less pleasant when the temperature rises. While other regions are more tolarable for humans.
So there might be a reason why some people complain that they suffer from the heat. There could also be other reasons like their living conditions. A lack of ac and water, or living in a urban heat hell.
Lets not trivialize experiences of people who suffer.
Oh yeah they open up libraries near me cause otherwise people might cark it.
I'm not trivialising anything, but outside of the tropics you don't need AC to survive those temps. Just keep wetting yourself down and stay out of the sun and you'll be right. Unless you're not in a good state prior.
That's why we're starting to use wet bulb temperature to measure these things. This is the temperature measured with the measuring bulb of the thermometer wet, so it accounts for wind and humidity, and it reflects how humans would feel and survive.
38°C wet bulb is a deadly temperature. Not like you may die if you are unlucky or have specific condition, but like healthy you adult humans die in this weather. Because wind and humidity are such that your body cannot cool itself.
In more temperate or dry places the heat should not be an underestimated danger either. But indeed the danger comes more at 40°C and higher and specific circumstances (stupidity being one of them).
you could still survive by immersing yourself in cool water but yeah.
I think we had a 48 the other year with like 70% humidity and that was interesting. At one point I tried to get something done in the sun and almost immediately started experiencing heat stroke. I ended up going into the bush and lying down in a creek for a while. A surprising number of people had the same idea, it was almost nice except for the whole "wow the Apocalypse is starting" thing.
You can survive with many external means. But that's the thing: you need external means to survive because you cannot survive otherwise in this environment.
And yes, even in dry weather doing work in direct sun when temperature is over 40C is madness. Even a healthy adult can die in this environment. You should at the very least have proper garments and drink a lot.
Keep in mind that a large chunk of the United States is considerably closer to the tropics than Europe is. Washington TC is on roughly the same latitude as Lisbon or Ibiza is. It's not tropical, but climatically it's still considered sub-tropical, and large chunks of the country have the summer heat and humidity to prove it.
I'm not from Europe. I'm from Australia.
ATM I live in temperate rainforest, have spent time in tropical heat up in northern QL.
Until the air gets saturated a lot of ability to cope is a combo of adaptation and conditioning. I wear jeans all year round pretty much and generally don't run into problems as long as I'm drinking water. People less use to heat don't move as much blood to their perpheries, probably don't drink anywhere near enough water, and aren't used to feeling comfortable in wet clothing (from sweat or from wetting yourself down).
I spent some time in Thailand and felt like I had found my people when it was a 30 degree day and I put on a jumper, went outside and saw many others doing the same!
Actually Europe's weather is pretty analogous to the Midwest, thanks to an ocean current dumping lots of warm water to their north. Although that might be changing soon idk
Fun fact. -40 degrees is the same in both C and F, and is also called "January" where I live.
I live in a place that has -40°C winters and +40°C summers now 👍
God I sure do love global warming
yikes. My house is about 6 degrees in winter and that's cold enough for me
You shouldnt let the house go below 14-isch degrees since that would create kondensation that might hurt the structure or promote fungal growth. My house is between 15 to 20 degrees in winter and at 15 I can feel my body stiffen due to cold
If I had a choice mate I wouldn't let it haha. I live in Australia, we make houses that don't qualify as tents in the rest of the world.
No real insulation (tiny amount in roof but downlights punch a hole through it), single glazed windows, doors that don't seal. Power costs too much to run heating :') it's good shit.
Montana, here.
Nothing quite like when it hits -45°F and you have to start closing off rooms and stuffing blankets into registers and doorway cracks.
Any kind of outdoor airflow can burn so bad that skin necrosis can begin in just 5 minutes.
Summer in Arizona is shitty. Winter in the Northern Rockies will straight up murder you.
Ah yes the obligatory smug comment whenever anyone brings up temperature even tangentially.
Oh relax, it's just funny. You're welcome to have a giggle when I bitch about it being 18 and you're like 18? that's 64! I only heat my sauna to 66!
100F in Houston is a completely different beast than 100F in San Diego. Shade will actually help you San Diego. Nothing will help you in Houston.
Leaving
Leaving will help you in Houston.
I have no more idea where those places are than you have about port Douglas and Jindabyne ;)
Had to do a double take when I read Jindabyne. Nobody ever mentions Jindy online
There are like 1000 permanent residents :p
Nice place but, good lake, near good mountains, pleasant bushland around.
I stay sometimes, it's very timeless. Doesn't feel like it's changed much from when I was a kid.
Houston is the opposite of all those things. Its beaches consistently rank as having the highest fecal contamination in the country. Be glad you know nothing of it.
95 in Denver feels like 75 in South Carolina
It really depends on humidity. Humid heat is typically worse and can be really draining both mentally and physically. Dry heat is much more tolerable for humans. As a person who's experienced both I can concur, the 100F humid heat was borderline horrific.
38C/100F is probably fine (relatively) in Arizona but in Florida it'll be pretty terrible. Like when I was in the south for a week it was 98F and the walls were sweating.
fuck BOTH these date formats.
ISO-8601 OR DIE.
Good morning on this beautiful day, 2023-W47‐2T10:26
2023‐325T21:11+00:00
it's extra handy because it taught me how to better visualize the chronological position of minecraft snapshots! 2023w47 has kinda sucked, from what i hear second-hand, due to some accidental features people were excited about being removed as "bugs".
meh, I prefer RFC 3339
In case people need a nudge to convert:
https://ijmacd.github.io/rfc3339-iso8601/
tbh they both have way too many options.
just give me 2023-11-21T21:45:53.02Z and call it a day
Damn, y'all are nerds.
what do you expect on lemmy
Is it just me or do neither ISO8601 nor RFC3339 contain any timestamp formats that are windows file system compliant? There doesn't seem to be a time format that doesn't contain a colon.
I think you're right, but also windows file system is a dumpster fire
When used in casual speech, you drop the year most of the time, so the month comes before the day. just like Americans would say. Don't tell the people that hate how Americans do things, though.
Sez you. 1st of January. 14th of February. 25th of December. This is the way and the truth and the light.
USA's measurment system dosn't make any senses.
Shut up. If you don't know how many buckets there are to a hogshead, that's not our fault.
Smartest statesian
That's medieval units for you. At least they use the same units in the whole country, which is progress compared to how it used to be in the rest of the medieval world. They just didn't take the last step to modernity.
It's not even our system. We adopted the system of our oppressors that kept it long after they abandoned it.
Imperial is not American, some might call it unAmerican
Yeo but you decided to kept it
1776-07-04
Sorting algos all agree.
I hate how wrong, yet accurate that is.
amerikanarane
Lolz. It's funny because it's so stupid.
Tbh I don't really get why people get upset about mm/dd/yyyy vs dd/mm/yyyy. Is it a little weird? Sure, but personally, saying "July 4th, 1776" feels as natural as "the 4th of July, 1776". The former is more formal, the latter is more casual.
People don't get upset about saying the date in whatever format. They get upset when you write it in that format without specifying, so that you don't know if 07/04/1776 is July 4th or April 7th.
I love it when someone sends me a message like this:
????
What's especially bad is things that are meant for an international audience. Like the 2023 Miami Formula 1 race was held the weekend of the 5th to the 7th of May. But, say you didn't know that and you see that the date is specified as: 05/07/2023. Is that a race in May or July? It's Formula 1 so the audience is probably mostly European so the European order makes sense. But, it's a race in the USA so the US order makes sense.
It really sucks when to decode a date and time you have to first figure out who the target audience for the information is, then use that to help decode the information.
You'll just have to compromise.
One word: Ambiguity. We need to either have a standard and stick to it, or a small handful of standards that cannot be confused for each other. DD/MM/YYYY and MM/DD/YYYY can be confused for each other, so the nonsensical MM/DD/YYYY should move over and make room for DD/MM/YYYY, or we should drop both and just use YYYY-MM-DD.
ISO 8601 ALL DAY EVERY DAY BABY
While it's fine now, it used to be pretty disgusting too
Fooking disgusteen
ISO 8601 for life.
Or DD-MMM-YYYY. Like 05/OCT/2005, which is my favorite if I don't need it to be entirely numerical.
That's fine because it's unambiguous. If I'm using another standard and you're using that, I can correct it without having to think about it.
It's not about saying it. It has to do with ordering it by size of time unit. Like I don't write the time as 43:12:19 to denote 43 minutes and 19 seconds past midday do I.
If it’s about size of time unit surely it should be 2023/11/20?
ISO8601 is the best format and the international standard to denote date and time.
2023-11-21T00:34:2
I'm not sure I would agree with that. ISO-8601 is ambiguous, and very difficult to parse. For example, here are a couple valid ISO-8601 strings. Could you let me know what they mean?
Taken from here. My favorite is the last one (
20). If someone just wrote20and told you to parse it using ISO-8601, what would you get? Hour? It could even be century (ie.2023%100)!!So I would argue that ISO-8601 is just a wee bit too flexible. Personally, I like RFC 3339 just a bit more...
Edit: that said, I would definitely agree that something along the lines of
2021-07-27T14:20:32Zis better than any regularly accepted alternative, and I pretty much format my dates that way all the time.to be fair, you don't parse "20" without first passing "%C"
A period of one day and one hour.
A period of one year, ten times, from the 208th day of 2021.
Ten hours and 18 minutes pm (I'm not sure about this one) on UTC+08:00 (China, for example).
IDK.
The 2nd day of the 30th week of 2021.
Same as above, but at 22:00 in China, probably.
A period of one year.
IDK.
Don’t think my bank will like it if I date forms with that.
Mine doesn't care. It actually never occurred to me not to.
Yes, and it is used only with dashes instead of slashes. This is also how date is written when you want alphabetical sorting to work on the date, too
Not necessarily. Size of time unit doesn't explicitly mean largest to smallest. For human comprehension day first makes sense because that's the most significant piece of data usually. Likewise for time of day the hour is the most significant piece of data.
Though for computer comprehension, absolutely yyyy/mm/dd is best hands down.
The best date format is ISO 8601 anyways.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601
ISO 8601. 1776-07-04. Everyone else is a heathen.
I don't understand why it matters how you say the date vs. how it's written with slashes.
If someone asks you the time, and you look at your watch and it says 11:45, you could just answer "eleven forty five", but depending on the context you might just say "It's noon" or "It's almost noon" or "It's a quarter to noon". 11:45 is how you get the information into your brain. How you process that information and how you pass it on depends on the context.
The best date format is clearly ISO-8601, YYYY-MM-DD. In that format, US independence day is 1776-07-04. But, you don't need to say it as "seventeen seventy six, seventh month, fourth day". You can say "July 4th, 1776" or "The 4th of July, 1776".
Because when usually dates formatted on number follow a descending or ascending order. Year -> Month -> Day or Day -> Month -> Year.
mm/dd/yyyy is:
-- Month <- Day | Year <-
It's not only strange but is also not easy to parse and can be confused with dd/mm/yyyy
Because they're teenagers. In the real world nobody actually gives a fuck. Call me weird, but the different formats have never caused me a single instant of confusion in my entire life.
As a developer, this has been an annoying and oftentimes confusing source of additional work for me.
You must do a lot of business with overseas people. It causes confusion pretty often
Possibly not even outside their county.
Nope. Never. Every time people are easily able to figure it out in a matter of seconds.
In the grand scale of things it's probably one of the least important things I can think of.
Ok, what date is 05/05/2024? Figure it out. And you have to pay me by then.
Simple, just pay it by 04/04/2024, that way it has 31 days of processing time
Crap I see what I wrote, misfire. Meant 05/03
Yup. I use ISO 8601 for any record keeping, but much like how I don't bother with good spelling and grammer it doesn't matter in comments on the internet
As an American immigrant in Germany, I encounter it somewhat regularly and it still doesn’t matter.
It was a bit of a problem when they thought I forged my covid vaccination card, because I got a shot on January tenth or something. I would then explain that I’m American and we do that. 80% of the time, they had no more questions, 20% of the time I’d show my drivers license birthday for proof (luckily I was born after the 12th).
The things that are actually problematic are the unknown tools used for my dental work (my implant screw is going to need to get a custom screwdriver made for it), and understanding temperature at an intuitive level. I understand the common weather numbers, but do I want coffee that’s 55 degrees or 70 degrees? No idea until I convert. Luckily, it’s the easiest conversion to do.
Not once on my life have i known what temperature my coffee is or should be.
That’s fair. I work at a bakery and make a lot of coffee in Celsius
I don't really care which way it goes, it just gets confusing if both month and date are 12 or lower and the format wasn't specified ahead of time
Yeah. Had issues getting ID when I first came to US. They mixed up my date of birth, and I needed to go get it corrected. I didn't even notice it until I almost missed a flight trying to use that ID, which didn't match with their system. Fortunately I also had my passport with me.
Different languages. In German you never say "Juli der 4." it's always "der 4. Juli". (I am sure someone will proof me wrong by digging up some weird old text, but it's still never used in day to day conversation)
I assume it's similar for other languages as well.
So when you need to guess what 10-04-2024 means, it matters a lot
I think the two points missing from most debates are
The imperial system does a damn good job at measuring things the way a human would. A foot is roughly the length of a big foot. A single degree farenheit is just big enough that you could guesstimate it with enough practice. If the temperatures are negative, you dump sand on the roads instead of salt.
It's like seven units of measurement in a trenchant. You never have to convert gallons to cubic miles. You never have to convert from dots to angstoms, and nobody has ever had to convert the surveyors mile to the nautical mile. It feels schizophrenic because claiming it's one singular system is like saying Italian, French, and Portuguese languages are all regional dialects of Europeanese.
My point isn't "it's not a bug, it's a feature", I'm saying for the average non-scientist there may be a logical reason why we like it so much
Yeah. You're used to it
No no. The rest of the world is constantly out of sorts on what common measurements are. It's like how monolingual non-English-speaking people are constantly aware they're not speaking the natural language of English.
/s
The temperature measurement is true though. F describes the temperature scale that humans interact with much better than C does.
Kind of, but not really. 0F doesn’t mean anything special in relation to human interaction, it relates to the freezing point of some random salt and water mixture (not seawater). 32 is a random number for the freezing point of freshwater which humans do care about, and 212 is nonsense for boiling temp of water which humans also care about and routinely use. The only part pertinent is that 100 is close to, but higher than human body temperature, but not quite where it counts as a fever… just the temperature of a sub-feverish human… how is that helpful! Sorry I really don’t care for the Fahrenheit system and I’m prepared to die on this hill
0 F is really cold to a human (but still livable), and 100 F is really hot to a human (but still livable). I honestly don't really care what temperature water boils at in my every day life. I know that if I put fire under a pot of water, it will boil eventually. Why would I need to know the exact temperature?
Cooking
Do you add pasta when the water is boiling or do you add pasta when it's 100°C? Because right now the boilng point of water for my location is 95.23°C. If I were to go skiing and wanted to boil some instant Ramen does it matter that the boiling point is 90.04°C in Leadville, CO? Or do I just put some water on the stove and wait till it boils?
Coffee brewing, if I used boiling water my coffee would taste "burnt", but if I use 80°C or so of hot water, it tastes perfect.
huh. I use an expensive coffee maker precisely because it heats just shy of boiling, 202 degrees/like 94c, and it turns out way better coffee than the 85 ish degree machines.
Depends on your coffee, brewing method, etc
For coffee machines the temperature doesn't matter as much, but for pour over, and some other filter coffee methods it can be important to measure water temperature.
It absolutely matters, it's why I paid so much. Walmart was selling a 50 dollar machine did the same thing, but the machines broke inside of 2 weeks. It made such good coffee I just returned it over and over till the customer service lady told me (she knew my name at this point) they'd returned what was left of the pallet. 300 dollar Zojirusha does the same thing and its a few years old now. Tried a few machines in between, just made mud it felt like, I've been ruined for crappy coffee tolerance.
Fair enough, there actually are a lot of terrible coffee machines available, especially in the US I guess. I am much more limited in what I can get, and so I end up having to do a lot more research (I do mean months of research), especially as the culture here is different for purchasing and returning things.
I'm not American, did some research, ordered it off Amazon.
You mentioned Walmart, so I assumed that, sorry.
Explain how it's useful in cooking. Considering it doesn't actually boil at 100 degrees unless there's very specific environmental conditions
Hard disagree. 0°F is colder than the pont it stopped being cool, but not yet really cold. 100°F is many degrees into dying of melting, but also a few degrees short of a fever worth noting.
I don't think I've ever seen either 0°F or 100°F used in any way to refer to actually temperature. It's always defining the scale or comparing to °C. Maybe once when checking for a fever.
What? Are you actually from somewhere that uses F? Because what kind of argument is this? You're saying that 0F isn't "really cold"? That's a very specific take likely based on the very specific region you live in. The vast majority of the world would call 0F "really cold".
And likewise, as someone from arizona, 100F is hot but not "really hot". That doesn't start until after 110 or 115. So in general, out of the entire world, 0-100 is a pretty good range of "really cold" to "really hot". Only the people who live in the specific places that regularly get much colder or hotter actually care. To most people, it doesn't really matter if it's 0 or -10 or -15, it's all too fucking cold. Just like to you 100 or 110 or 115 doesn't matter, it's all too hot.
The limits of "hot" and "cold" change with location and personal experience. 0°F is shorts weather for some, while 70°F is jacket time for others. Both live in my neighborhood.
There are hundreds of millions of people who see negative double digits every year, and billions of people who have never seen snow (Mumbai has never seen below 50°F!). There is no scale that can claim to cover human's experience of temperature in general, but some scales can be useful.
The exact numbers don't matter to people anyway, no one sees 70°F and estimates 70% hot, just like most of the world knows what 22°C means, even if it never freezes there. We could measure in yoctojoules (40.7) or simply relative to what the pope feels is hot and cold (85?). For daily use all temperature scales are arbitrary. Why not use one that's useful?
Only for those with medical issues or those being obstinate. It's not a relevant data point when trying to agree on a scale. 99.9% of people will agree 0F = cold as fuck.
So? The difference between 0F and -10F and -25F aren't THAT significant. The VAST majority of people will treat those temperatures as similar unless they're preparing for an outdoor adventure or something. But the difference between 65 and 75 is HUGE to most people that WILL impact how they prepare for interacting with the environment.
This is just not accurate and is pure cope. A scale that's 0-100 for the most important temperatures that humans interact with is an objectively good scale. With 10 degree bands that align pretty well to general human comfort and indicate the type of preparation required. Sure, some people might consider 60s t-shirt weather, but the point is the band is still relevant. 60-70, 70-80, 80-90. Those are useful, meaningful temperature ranges where the temperature inside those bands is similar enough
Oh wow two numbers with a really fuzzy meaning, how convenient
How about freezing? Super useful info in places that have snow and ice
Humans care about the fact that water boils or freezes. Not the temperature at which it happens
I'm prepared to die on the Farenheit system is better for describing environmental temperature hill
Friend, what in Sam Hill are you on about? Celsius is obviously better for boiling water: It takes a lot more degrees to reach 212 than it does 100, so I get my ramen a lot sooner when boiling water in Celsius!
::: spoiler since text loses the emotional content of speech this is a joke :::
No no, this guy's got a point!
What? Humans care a whole lot about the temperature at which both those things happen.
When I go outside in the morning, I know if road conditions are dangerous based on the freezing point of temperature.
When I cook something, the boiling point of water is something I can easily recognise just by looking, which allows me to use temperatures around and below it for many purposes.
Explain how
You're getting a false sense of security. Do you think -1C = dangerous and 1C = safe or something?
Wtf? Explain how
You mean the way I did in the parts you quoted after writing this?
No? Did I write that? I know the freezing point of water, so I know when I have to be careful. That's not strictly at the freezing point of water, but it is around that.
You should try to write actual questions, because I'm not sure what you're confused about. Say I want to water around 80-90°C - I heat water to boiling and then wait a bit. What's so difficult?
212 and 100 are both equally random numbers. There's nothing special about either. Besides, water boils about 205/95 on my hill.
No, 212 and 100 are not equally random. Unless you're trying to say that literally all numbers are equally random, 100 in the decimal system is much less random that 212.
Assigning the number 100 to the temperature pure water boils at sea level under specific conditions is as random as it gets. At least Farenheit numbers were based on a chemical concoction that exhibits the same temperature output regardless of elevation or pressure that they used to calibrate.
No, it's literally not. 212 is much more random. Any number like 10, 100, 1000 etc. is less random than any other number, simply by virtue of our decimal system. Just like 2,4, 8 etc. are less random in a binary system.
This isn't kilometers, area, volume, distant measurement. It's temperature. What that 100 is based on is random as fuck, and having the temperature of one elements boiling point at sea level divisible by 10 doesn't really help anything. There is a 100 degree point in Farenhenheit too, you could simply use that for...well whatever reason you need ten to go in evenly.
My guy, I'm not arguing whether the boiling temperature of water is a random point (because it isn't random in any way, and I'm not interested in arguing that). I'm arguing one simple thing: assigning something on a scale to 100 is much less random than assigning it to 212.
I don't think you have a very clear grasp on what random means, and 212 wasn't assigned.
You have no understanding of randomness if you think that 100 is equally random as 212 in our decimal system. No, not every number is equally random, no matter how often you repeat it.
I understand you have a fetish for numbers that are multiples of ten, but that doesn't make them special. Picking a number out of a hat is as likely to be a 9 as a 100.
Acknowledging that powers of a number systems base are special in that system isn't something I ever thought people would disagree with.
Why do you think we have concepts like "percentages"?
Only because you grew up with it.
I have only had the temperature described to me in celcius so Fahrenhite makes no sense to me.
What doesn't make sense to you. You can think of F as a percentage of how hot it is. 0 is 0% hot, meaning cold as fuck. 100 is 100% hot, hot as fuck. Things in the middle are are in the middle. 85 is 85% hot.
So 50 F is the ideal temperature?
Why do you just assume 50% is the ideal?
If 0 F is 0 % hot, and 100 F is 100 % hot; shouldn't 50 F be the Goldilocks ideal of neither too hot or too cold at 50 %?
And if 50 F isn't the Goldilocks ideal, then where on the scale is it?
That would depend on personal preference. Somewhere around the 70-80 mark most likely.
You're assuming humans have no preference for it being hot or cold. That's the only way 50% would make more sense. But most people prefer it warm
My assumption was that a temperature scale for the human experience would place the ideal temperature around the middle, and not towards too hot. Would it improve such a scale if the 0 F was closer where 20 or 30 is currently, so that 70-80 is more centered? Is 0 F the perfect point for where it's unacceptably cold for a human, or could it have been shifted up or down the scale?
And -5 farenheit is.. just a bit colder than fuck? I understand what temperatures I start feeling cold perfectly well in Celsius, I know roughly when I'll need a jacket, when I'll need a hat and scarf... Farenheit tells me nothing because I don't know about it. Sure, 0 is very cold, but where is "cold enough to wear a jacket"? It's most likely never going to reach 0°F where I live, and it won't reach 100°F outside of very rare summer days... Beyond those extremes it's not useful to me because I don't know it.
This is going to vary depending on everyone. I start wearing a jacket at around 60. My wife starts at like 75. So neither system is going to be able to tell you that information
Checks temp converter
Lol. 80F is approximately 26C. That's considered mild where I live.
So yeah. Makes fuckall sense to people who've grown up with temperature mentioned in Celcius everywhere.
How does this refute anything in my comment? 80% is fairly "mild". When 100% i "as hot as it can be", and 0 is "as cold as it can be", 80% is a pretty good temperature.
5/7 comment
Lol can't tell, is this 85% stupid or closer to 100?
Are percentages too hard for you?
Not nearly as hard as you are working to represent F in chat about personal preference
I WILL die on this hill. But preference is just what you do with the information, not the usefulness of the scale. 0-100 is the scale. Whether you wear jackets at 50-60 or 60-70 doesn't mean that the scale isn't objectively better.
Oh yea I think I do agree with you that the C scale is objectively better.
Cope harder. F is objectively better for environment. C is objectively better for scientific calculation
Oof you really trying to get others to die on that hill with ya huh?
You're objectively dumb
What about 102? Or 3000 (for metals)?
102%, aka hot as fuck. The whole point is that it describes human environmental temperature. If you're dealing with melting metals, that's a scientific application and C would be the better choice
The fever temperature, maybe. But the rest makes more sense in C. It's so much easier when 0C is freezing and 100C is boiling. It works with cooking. Counting in increments of 5 or 10 also works for weather.
<0C = below freezing
0-10C = cold
10-20C = cool (sweater or hoodie)
20-30C = t-shirt weather
30C and above = hot
Explain how this is useful in cooking
68 to 86 is a GIGANTIC difference. 68 is cold for many many people, certainly not "t-shirt weather". and 86 is hot, much more than "t-shirt weather".
Who bundles up in 68F? It's literally room temperature
Also it's useful in cooking because it's an actual, useful scale. You know when it's 90C it's about to be boiling, just makes no sense why you gotta memorize 212F. Random number and all
Never said "bundling up". But that 10 degree range is so big as to be useless. 68 is not in the same category as 86.
What? How often are you putting thermometers in whatever it is you're boiling? You just heat it until it boils. It doesn't matter what the number is.
Thank you for making sense lol. Who's putting a meat thermometer in water to make sure it's boiling? It's boiling when it's boiling.
people actually use boiling water to calibrate their meat thermometers, but they always forget to check their elevation. boiling point here is 205 degrees, and 7 degrees matters when say chicken is safe at 160 but you actually pulled it off at 155
i dunno, 68F on a cloudy windy day isn't as pleasant as 68F and sunny.
But then again I'm from Ohio and I won't bother to put on so much as a vest until it hits 50s
100 is absolutely a random number, just fetishized.
68f is for sure t-shirt weather. 86f is for sure T-shirt weather.
Who TF bundles up if it's 86 deg.
Super confused, you bundle up at 68f for normal ideal summer temps? Or is 68-86 Gigantic enough you need long sleeves? Or like just low keyed afraid are you of the outdoors at 20c? Spoiler alert... It's nice?
68 is not t-shirt weather for a lot of people.
What is this about "bundling up"? Literally no one said anything about bundling up. But 68 and 86 are just fundamentally different temperature categories.
68 means you may or may not need a jacket, depending on the wind, fog, etc. It also means you should probably carry a jacket because it's likely to drop down below "t-shirt" weather when the sun goes down. 86 means you'll likely not need a jacket at all, even at night. And it means the wind will be refreshing rather than biting. And it might mean shorts as well.
Like, I just don't believe that you can't understand how 68 and 86 are fundamentally different temperature categories
68 is shorts and T-shirt weather in my part of the world. No one carries a jacket around if it's that warm. Maybe it's cold to you if you live between the tropics? I can't speak to that
20-30c is a cool shortcut that F doesn't really have. The original comment is just a decent guideline and "I just don't believe that you can't understand" what a guideline is.
But if you need all this stuff to exist outside in nice weather maybe a quick guideline is not for you...
What kind of shortcut? 68-80 are so massively different. Even if 68 is shorts and t-shirt for you, that means 86 is "uncomfortably hot". And even if 68 is t-shirt weather, it means at night it's going to drop probalby 10 degrees. So 68 is "tshirt weather right now, but bring a jacket", and 86 is "tshirt weather but leave the jacket at home". and the 10 degree bands of F are perfect for that.
60sis "cool, may or may not require a jacket depending on your preference". 70s is "nice right now but prepare for cool when the sun goes down", 80s is "warm, don't bring a jacket", etc.So sure, we don't have the "20-30c" shortcut (again, way too big to be useful). We have EVERY 10 degree band as a shortcut
68-80 are similar temps. I'm comfy at both. I wear the same thing outdoors at both temps.
I'm sorry you don't I guess and are offended that someone else is different than you.
20-30 is easier to understand than 68-80 for most people (obviously there's an exception)
Yes, 68 to 80 are somewhat similar. I obviously meant 68-86.
But 68-80 IS similar, and it's exactly why F is better, because we have the 70-80 band. But that's exactly the point, 68 and 86 are NOT similar temps, hence being in separate 80-90 band.
Yes obviously.
If you read the discussion that you were actually having to me, we were obviously talking about 20-30c, which is 68-86F. And it was mentioned several times in this thread. And the context of my reply made it abundantly clear I meant 68-86
Yes I mistyped 80vs86. but that percentage of 100 is similar enough that I can't really tell the difference.
I was agreeing that 68 and 86 are both T-shirt weather. Still is to most folks. I get it you're not most folks.
I'm imagining your place as just filled with coats and thermometers that you care about this to such an extent.
i literally set my thermostat at 69 because its t shirt warm.
This is a funny argument I see from Yanks all the time.
Someone teach these Yanks about negative numbers, please!
What do negative numbers have to do with anything? -1F = cold as fuck
Usually this silly argument is about 0-100 thing. But Yanks don't seem to understand that you can do negative numbers, you don't have to be within 0-100 range.
Yes, negative numbers exist, and numbers beyond 100. But they're not that important. 0 is basically the lowest temperature that matters in day to day life. If it's colder, you don't do anything different unless you're preparing for an outdoor adventure. Same with 100. 100 is the hottest temperature that makes a difference. Beyond 100 it only matters if you're preparing for an outdoor adventure. The 100 degree scale is about describing the normal range that humans interact with their environment in. Even if it can get extreme beyond that, that doesn't mean the 0-100 scale isn't useful.
They kinda are though lol.
But what about sauna. What about really cold weather. What about cooking. Hell, what about my PC. What about when I have a fever. What about really hot weather... The temperatures are about much more than the fuzzy idea about normal-ish weather in certain places on earth.
It just means it doesn't have much benefit to it at all. The whole argument for it is silly.
Ps I'm starting think Fal is losing it in this comment section...
They've started a holy war to preach the benefit of staying between 0-100. I admire their conviction, even if I think their argument is nonsense.
Ehhhh conviction isn't super admirable if it's something stupid.
I don't think a flat earther's conviction is admirable.
But at least theyre less stupid than flat earthers... So far...
It's admirable in the "I love internet drama" sense. I love it when people feel super strongly about something that doesn't matter.
Oh I gotcha now, agreed
Not really. Explain what you do differently in -10F temperatures that you wouldn't do in 0F temperatures in normal life. I don't want to hear about how you would choose a different sleeping bag or prepare your snow shoes differently or some shit. When your day consists of commuting to work, going to the grocery store, then going home, what meaningful difference do any values below 0F have.
What about it?
What about it?
What about it?
This is actually the perfect example. Above 100 is a fever. Below is fine
What about it?
Not in 99% of how people use the temperature.
And your examples of cooking and your PC are not what we're talking about. We're talking about human environmental temperature. But in fact, cooking is another good use for F. You generally only care about a few specific temps. 350F and 400F. Anything else is nuance but basically only matter on the 25 degree marks. So 375, 425. It's actually a pretty great scale for cooking, with broiling generally maxing out at 500 (unless you're talking very specific application, like pizza ovens or some shit)
"Well what about all these things outside of this range people use in their daily life?"
LOL
I'm making the case that your "human environmental temperature" is a shit reason to pick Fahrenheit because we have all these things that surprisingly don't conform to it. So you'll have to go outside the 0-100 range anyway. So you won't get any "benefit" from it, even when the "benefit" was dubious to begin with.
Wait till you see international ovens and cooking manuals. It's gonna blow your mind.
It's better to pick the scale that does conform to it for the vast majority of applications, and then just deal with the others. Either by using C or just dealing with it. For every 1 time you need to deal with temps of your computer, you'll interact with the environmental temperature a thousand times. And neither C or F are inherently better for describing CPU temps.
Oh, I forgot to pull out my cooking manual. Yeah C is MUCH better.
Okay we can all go home. Fal says "C is MUCH better." Argument over
Fal has released us poor souls from this torment. Blessed be.
I mean neither conforms very well, that's the whole point. And what's the deal with 0-100, why is that so beneficial in your opinion?
Well yeah, it was simply about the 0-100 thing.
Wait till you see the ovens. It's incredible. There's usually few temps you need to care about and it changes in 20 degree marks. Incredible, I know.
Wait til you learn that there are other things to do in life than bitch about temperature systems.
This would probably be more impactful if you didn't just jump into a discussion that didn't involve you to make this observation lol
I like how you respond to somebody saying you're bitching by bitching more. Continue crying about it by yourself, please.
You replied to me, unprompted. Can't go complaining I replied after that, that'd be silly
You forgot to consider that people interact with ovens and freezers
Explain how interacting with ovens and freezers requires knowledge of the specific temperature at which water freezes or boils at standard conditions
Same with feet and inches for distance.
Rubbish. The rest of the world understands temperatures in Celsius perfectly well. You're confusing familiarity with superiority
Mother tell the children not to check the temps. Tell the children not to read my books what they mean what they say.
Sorry i read Danzig so I though of the band
Glenn was named after Gdansk, not the other way round 🤘
WHAT THE FUCK IS A KILOMETER 😡😡😡😡
Communists.
Americans saying that F° is a more human and relatable temperature measurement, how many times have you been to Dantzig in the 18th century again? Do you even know where Dantzig is? Because i've seen water freezing quite a few times before.
I thought 0F was the freezing point of brine.
Nope, it's -6°F, or -21,1°C.
Hard agree with metric for the most part. I forever stand by Fahrenheit for temperatures you experience, and Celsius for science. I don't want to have to use decimals in my everyday life, but that's just me
And really, K is the ideal temperature unit for scientific purposes, since there's actually a hard starting point, rather than picking an arbitrary state change at an arbitrary pressure of a kind of arbitrary compound.
The measurement for temperatures you experience really does not matter outside of what you're used to, do you think non-Americans get confused about how cold 6°C or 23°C is?
Temperature scale doesn't matter in daily life, so I hate that there's always this argument about which scale makes more sense. Knowing what a given temperature feels like is no more difficult than remembering that water freezes at 32 degrees fahrenheit and boils at 212.
I'm all for a system based around multiples of 10, but for temperature, even Celsius isn't done that way, other than 0 and 100.
Which is why Kelvin is superior.
Every temperature scale in our usual range is pretty arbitrary at the end of the day, but you have to admit that the fixpoints of Fahrenheit are particularly useless in everyday life.
Americans always say they prever Fahrenheit over Celsius because the measurment is more exact. Also Americans: "The weather is in the fifties today.“
They just like to find excuses why they prefer the things that they are used to. It's human nature.
Celcius. Water freezes at 0 and boils at 100
Pretty good frame of reference
It gets way easier for "feel" of weather too! In most habitable places in the world, 0°C is around as cold as you'll regularly see (also a handy number for when you need to watch for ice). Similarly, 40°C is around as high as most habitable places get, also a nice easy number to work with.
In fahrenheit, these numbers are 30 and 105, I mean I can get rounding down for ease of use but you're moving the reference points a lot to make it 25 to 100 for what you usually see and that's certainly not more intuitive than 0-40
Consider it as a general scale from 0-100. First third is freezing, second third is alright, the rest is kinda bleh. Above or below the scale, take caution when you're outside
Especially considering we are water
You forgot about the arbitrary "standard" pressure part and missed the point by a light second.
I didnt forget, i said pretty good frame of reference because it didnt feel necessary given the context of people using it for real world everyday things. Which is typically at "fuck it, close enough" for most people to not have to worry about
If i said perfect, excellent, amazing, the best then i might concede your point, but i didnt so i dont however correct you are that there are other factors that can change the points of reference
Don't you use decimals for prices already?
They do but they don't matter because of sales tax and tips.
Yup. Being at the store is just a guessing game until the tax gets added. And then I just swipe the card lol
1776-07-04 gang
Logic of America
Like most things we have it's not even ours.
I hate it
I'll grant that farenheit has merit, but for me, the foot/inches distance works a bit better for casual measurements, and stuff that doesn't have to be very precise.
Beyond maybe someone's height, I'd rather work in metric. I'm also very much in favor of celsius and I still have trouble converting between the temperature scales. I grew up with temps in degrees C, and height and some sort distances in feet/inches. IDK, I'm weird.
The date thing drives me nuts though.
I've adopted year month day as the superior sorting method
This is the only way. DD-MM or MM-DD is confusing when it's something like 12-03-2023. Is it December 3 or March 12?
It's confusing because of USA, if they applied what everyone in the world uses it wouldn't really be a problem.
Correct.
ISO 8601.
https://xkcd.com/1179/
Beer was the only drink you could get in prole pubs. The proles were supposed not to drink gin, though in practice they could get hold of it easily enough. The game of darts was in full swing again, and the knot of men at the bar had begun talking about lottery tickets. Winston's presence was forgotten for a moment. There was a deal table under the window where he and the old man could talk without fear of being overheard. It was horribly dangerous, but at any rate there was no telescreen in the room, a point he had made sure of as soon as he came in.
"E could 'a drawed me off a pint,' grumbled the old man as he settled down behind a glass. 'A 'alf litre ain't enough. It don't satisfy. And a 'ole litre's too much. It starts my bladder running. Let alone the price.'
'You must have seen great changes since you were a young man,' said Winston tentatively.
The old man's pale blue eyes moved from the darts board to the bar, and from the bar to the door of the Gents, as though it were in the bar-room that he expected the changes to have occurred.
'The beer was better,' he said finally. 'And cheaper! When I was a young man, mild beer -- wallop we used to call it -- was fourpence a pint. That was before the war, of course.'
-1984
this is bait. picking arbitrary points of comparison where one looks clean and the other sloppy. who cares about 8.3 feet or Danzig?
Check the community, mate.
yes it's 196 where people post random shit and it's blohaj zone so we're all gay. still bait 🪤
Wooooooosh
If the USA wants a system of measurement based entirely on water for temperature and mass, and distance as one millionth of the distance from the equator to the pole, then I'm sure they'll call.
How many meters are in 13.2 km? 13,200
How many feet are in 13.2 mi?
Break out a calculator
Why is my country so arrogant that they will argue for an objectively worse measurement system?
There are 5,280 feet in a Mile
I'm sorry you suck at math to the extent that this is considered absurdly difficult for you. Sucks to Suck.
I'm going to pretend that that result was completely intentional lol