Please, for the love of God, VOTE!locked
I don't like Biden either, but anyone with half a brain knows there are two choices in the 2020 election. If we had a sane voting system, voting third party might be worth it, but as it stands, no one but you knows your favorite candidate exists and unless you want to become their campaign manager that will still be true in November. Even if you did, and even if you convinced two thirds of the people who would otherwise have voted for Biden to vote for your chosen candidate instead, Trump would still win because half the country voted for him and your guy only got a third. If you vote third party you might as well stay home.
Not voting isn't going to stop the genocide in Gaza. The US will continue to funnel them arms no matter which candidate wins this November. Trump practically campaigns on how much he hates the Jews and he's publicly told Israel to "finish up their war". He'll also make life a living hell for anyone who isn't a straight cisgender male back here at home.
A vote for a candidate is not an endorsement of them or their policies, it's a statement that you like their policies more than the other guy's, and "sticking it to liberals" and "refusing to support genocide" (that's not what voting for Biden is doing, by the way -- a vote for either candidate is a vote for genocide and a vote for neither is an endorsement of both) is not more important than keeping the furthest right politician America has ever seen out of office.
How incredibly privileged do you have to be to see an entire national election as what will happen in the Middle East and ignore Trump's campaign promises to wipe transgender Americans off the map, and further, to not realize that the same thing will happen in the Middle East regardless of which candidate wins?
I hate Biden as much as every other leftist here. But I'll still vote for him because Trump is worse. If there's a single bone in your body that cares about the lives of your trans friends you will too.
Also, trump appointed 3 supreme court justices, who will be there FOR LIFE.
Assassinate'em, you say?No, just kidding.
I'm just someone watching from Europe, getting a little concerned đ
Same here. Watching from Europe, and going "hmm, I think we had a few very bloody revolutions to solve these kinds of problems"
Thanks to leftists who wouldnât vote
Do I hate the two party system? Yes. Do I hate the fact that centrists like Joe Liberman who literally killed universal healthcare in the US are revered and embraced by Biden's party? Yes. Do I hate the fact that Democrats are always dismissive of liberal ideas and often act like complete jackasses and can't admit that when Obama was running there were a ton of Clinton supporters that didn't vote for Obama in a blatant act of pure hypocrisy? Yes.
Do I fucking hate Nazis and Fascist? Fuck yes.
Hence why even if I don't like the Democrat running, I'll vote for them and honestly, Biden isn't too sucktastic. Except for kyrsten sinema, she can fuck right the hell off forever.
I hate how so many critics talk about they when criticising a political party. Get involved. Run for local office, become a part of the inside of the party. How can Democrats ever represent younger leftists, when so few of the younger leftists let their voice be heard outside of anonymous forums?
Yeah lemme get like $2,000,000 so I can go run for office.
Hey are you involved in your political party? Have you run for local office?
You aren't also being a hypocrite by telling other people to get involved while not doing it yourself right?
Joe Biden explicitly said he would veto any legislation involving universal healthcare. You oppose universal healthcare, but you're hiding behind the spectre of "centrists".
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/10/facebook-posts/when-biden-was-asked-if-he-would-veto-medicare-all/
And again, as a minority in America, I would take Biden over a Nazi any day. Doesn't mean I love him to death and would take him into my arms and give him a reach around but fuck anyone who would vote for a Nazi.
Do I hate everything going on in this country? Yes. Do I still keep voting to have the same shit happen over and over? Yes.
I mean if you want to vote in a bunch of fucking Nazis and fascists just for some change , well feel fucking free to do so, I'm just going to consider you stupid and a Nazi.
Liberals would rather blame leftists than actually fight fascism.
Leftist here. What are you doing to "fight," brother?
If you look at how many times liberals staged a coup and put a dictator in charge because a country decided to democratically elect a vaguely leftist president you start to realize they much prefer fascism to leftism. Now they're just doing the same thing domestically.
Indeed, you've spelled it out plainly: there is no vote option to end the U.S. funding of Israel's genocide in Gaza.
I can either make a vote that won't end it, or I can make a vote that won't end it (and may actually make it worse, as you alluded) and will also lead to significant negative consequences for many groups of people here.
Not just trans, but homosexual, non-white, non-religious, women.
THANK YOU.
Buddy, friend, gamer. Itâs march. Can you bring this out in six months? There is no reason to fill everyoneâs feed up like this and sow political division on the left over seven months before itâs relevant.
Plus, the pressure looks like itâs working, so a vote for Biden might be a lot more palatable then. A lot of your work might get done automatically
Anyone who doesnât vote immediately loses the right to complain for the next 4 years.
Donât like it? Shouldâve done your duty and put in a vote.
Fuck you, fence sitters
Are the fence sitters in the room with us now?
Ok I'll be voting 3rd party.
Ok, Iâll blame you as well if Trump wins
I'll blame Biden for refusing to make material compromises with leftists and progressives in order to get the votes he needs.
Iâll blame you when the nazis legislate me and my brethren out of existence. You could have helped to stop this, but instead you decided to sit by and throw a tantrum like a fucking child.
You could help stop this by fighting Biden instead of fighting me.
Anyone that isn't voting for Biden is helping someone get into office that will implement wildly homophobic and transphobic policies. People in this thread are really showing their cards.
I'm a disabled veteran. I know exactly what Trump thinks of us and exactly how he fucked us last time he was in office. But I will not let myself or others be held hostage for our country to support Genocide. If you think you're helping anyone by showing politicians they have no accountability then you're in for a rude awakening.
Anyone who doesnât push for the Democratic Party to support policies that will convince those people to vote are actively doing the same. It takes two to tango, and moderates need to work with the left if they hate trump as much as they claim too.
It's amazing that the vast majority of progressives always come around and vote for the lesser evil, yet we have to listen to this ranting every single time.
You are right that they should be pushing the Democratic establishment to do better, but there is a reason they don't. They know that progressives are willing to make compromises, but the establishment is not.
Biden would choose Trump over a progressive candidate. We know this because he did. When the Democrats moved the first primary to South Carolina from New Hampshire, they probably threw away the NH electoral votes, and they know they will never win SC. They would rather Trump win than face another progressive challenger.
So many dumb Americans here not voting. Cutting off your legs so you can hold the moral high ground. Moronic.
Why is the onus on the left? How come itâs never on moderates for being such poor coalition partners that knee cap their proposals at every opportunity?
Why is the onus on the left to vote left to promote left values? Because that's how voting works?
I'm not sure how to answer that question. Reword it as "Why is the onus on the right to elect a right-wing candidate?" maybe to see.
The onus is on us all to keep democracy alive.
It is on us to take all available paths towards alleviating the situation. Voting is the easiest and least u can do. Past that, theres mutual aid and direct action. Take as many paths as u can, but any and all leftward movement must be embraced.
The "moderates" u mention are the future right wing of the country. The gop is on a sinking ship. Their base is dying (of old age and at twice the rate due to covid), and the youth lean increasingly left. Our time is upon us, but right now trump represents an existential threat to life as we know it. He is a hostile foreign agent and those paths open to us will suddenly close under him.
It is on both the moderates and the left? Because neither group is enough on its own to win?
You keep asking this question and I find it very hard to believe you don't already know the answer.
Hey hi, it's me, your trans friend. And you need to put this energy towards protesting Biden instead of leftists. I honestly feel like you are low key getting trolled and missing the point?
Like, seriously, we all know "shithole countries" Trump would be worse on every single issue, including and especially Gaza. But it's six months till the election, PLENTLY of time for a course change by Biden. Absolutely a second Trump term scares the đŠ out of me. So i appreciate where you are coming from, but until it's November, I think pressing Dems and trusting leftists to do whats right day of is the most good y'all can do.
i can't trust leftists because leftists are stupid. look how they lost italy, the leftists splintered and refused to work together because of petty shit which allowed the right including literal fascists to take over the government. this is the same type of dumb stuff that happens everywhere with leftists, because of their "holier than thou" attitude.
i will not leave the election's outcome in the leftists' hands because they always fuck it up when that's the case. they always refuse to cooperate with the enemies of their enemy because they don't see them as left enough, despite it being the only option to not have their long-term goals permanently blocked off, and the country always devolves into diet fascism afterwards. it has lost us many nations throughout history, so no thanks.
This is actually straight up revisionism, it was the Liberals who sided with fascists, rather than working with Leftists to stop the fascists, that directly allowed for Hitler and Mussolini to come to power.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the Liberals" but I'm not referring to pre-WW2. I'm referring to right now. The current state of Italy. The one where leftists had the government, and then completely screwed up in the face of a rising right-wing threat because they decided they don't agree with some of the things the other leftists were doing.
Ah, fair. I am not as familiar with modern Italy, but it sounds like refusing to work together is a two-way street, though I would love to see an example of what you're specifically referring to.
The easiest (although not best) example for Italy is the PM. The previous center-left politicians in office were by no means perfect PMs, but the left's infighting and the ensuing breakup of the coalition of various left and center-left parties caused Draghi to resign, and the next (and current) PM is Giorgia Meloni who is an actual fascist who has on multiple occasions reminisced of the good old days with Mussolini in charge and a good economy. Nowadays with hindsight people miss the preceding leftist PMs and think they were actually pretty good after all, but it's too late for that. The country has already started a tumble towards the right and it'd be extremely hard to get it out, especially considering that the left still is refusing to work together.
There were other factors, such as the left in Italy generally tending anti-Ukraine and the population's concerns about immigration, as well as the right focusing a lot on anti-LGBTQ rhetoric/paranoia (Italy is a very catholic nation so this was an effective strategy), but the most important factor and the ultimate killing blow was the left breaking apart.
There's definitely a lot more to it, than that. I'd have to research more, because historically it's always the Liberals who refuse to work with Leftists against fascists.
Step 1: defeat Trump Step 2: help reshape Democratic party
Because the fact is, if we don't do step 1 first, we'll have our work cut out for us the next four or more years just being back in 'The Resistance'. Which you know isn't going to make the Dems more liberal, it's going to pull them to the right as more dissatisfied Trump voters finally peel off.
On the other hand, the more resounding of a defeat we can dish out to the GQP and MAGA, the easier it will be to send them into the wilderness to regroup politically so we can focus all of our energies on the Democratic party.
We defeated Trump in 2020. Nothing changed and Biden spent his entire term catering to liberals and moderates.
And republicans and fascists and corporations and Wall Street.. hmmm but he did almost cancel a lot of student debt, but actual trying to cancel most peopleâs student debt was âtoo highâ. No cracking down on predatory lending or anything. Plenty of other countries have free college, but its just too damn hard in the worlds richest country, you know jack.
Earn the vote Biden.
He can't do it because Congress is too divided because you didn't fucking vote.
Who didn't vote? What senate races were reasonably within reach that people didn't show up for? Same question for the house.
Sorry if I am missing your point - did you think he'd cater to conservatives?
Lol! I expected him to make material compromises with the millions of progressives and leftists who held their nose and voted for him. The fact that you seem completely unaware of these factions Democrats depend on to win elections is just... a perfect example of how out of touch liberal and moderate voters are. They can't win elections without our votes. They need to start acting like it.
Not advocating for voting third party, but how do you genuinely plan on reshaping the democrat party, and how would this time be different, compared to the past?
This is my question too. I'm old (Gen X), and I've never seen the Democrats acting progressive. The last time I had hope was in 08 when I volunteered for the Obama campaign, only for him to out himself as yet another conservative wearing progressive clothes once he took office.
The correct answer is that politicians are not simply groups of "good" and "evil" people, but people acting in the interests of the US state, and by extension the wealthy Capitalists that guide it.
Democrats are not a party of positive, incremental change, even if that's how they position themselves. They act swiftly in the direction of liberalism, and only make concessions to leftists and progressives when they become threatening, not when leftists cooperate.
Waiting and voting harder for the least worst candidates just continues their existing trends, if the Dems had overwhelming support they would continue to do the bare minimum.
It's not a coincidence that the GOP is far more radically fascist, that's where they get their votes! That's why the GOP manages to do a lot of damage, because if they didn't, they would get tossed aside for another party. They cling on with barely enough support to occasionally get elected despite Democrat majority.
I wish I could upvote this one more than once. This is spot on, I think.
Sorry I wasn't clear - I'm saying if you care about reshaping the Dems, you do it after we defeat Trump.
There is no guarantee it will be different this time, that's politics. But giving up on it isn't an option - politics happens to us whether we are active or not. But if you're hoping for change, it'll be a lot harder to see if Trump gets reelected. I promise you that.
That same line was told during 2020, 2016, 2008, 2000, and so forth. Where is the leftist concession? Where is the Democratic party being pushed? How are you planning on achieving change?
The moment Trump was defeated in 2020 liberal and moderates did exactly what they always do: demand priority over leftists and progressives in every policy disagreement and Biden was happy to oblige.
No. Moderate voters, liberal voters, the DNC, establishment Democrats and Biden will all reshape now or lose to Trump. Make a choice.
I'm sorry but this is basically the same argument that I got multiple others in this thread so instead of answering again, I'm going to ask you a question.
What exactly is y'alls game plan then? How do you think you'll benefit by punishing Biden and helping get Trump elected?
Your question attempts to hold progressives and leftists to a different standard than moderates and liberals.
What is the game plan of moderates, liberals, establishment Democrats and Biden? How do they think they'll benefit by refusing to make material compromises with leftists and progressives?
Except step one is repeated every. damn. time.
Its never time to reshape the Democratic Party. If the democrats win, it will be too early to fix the Democratic Party for millions of reasons. And four years pass and every campaign promise is ignored, and all of a sudden itâs back to 1. Beat the new threat to âdemocracyâ 2. Fix the Democratic Party⌠ad nauseam forever.
Fuck that, pass electoral reform so people can vote 3rd party with no spoiler effect and leave these dinosaur political parties in the past where they belong.
Do you think it'll be easier or harder to get electoral reform passed if Trump is elected?
I think that the threat of losing to trump is the most powerful leverage progressives and leftists have at getting actual reformation of the party, and this election is the democrats race to lose.
So right now everyone who is pissed at Biden or the democrats, should be letting their anger known and be as loud as possible about it
This will be the most important election in the history of the united states. You have two choices, Dictator, or Democracy. A no vote is a vote AGAINST Democracy.
I hear this every single election.
Dems - "democracy is at stake! THIS IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION IN YOUR LIFE"
Me - *Holds nose and votes for the lesser evil"
Dems - "thanks guys that was close" Proceeds to sit around with a thumb in their collective asshole for 4 years.
...
Dems - "Democracy is at stake! REALLY guys - THIS is the most important election ever!"
It's fucking exhausting. If the Dems really wanted people to come out and vote, they would spend less time begging for our votes, and more time representing our collective interests.
They don't sit around at all! They are out there working hard. Suckling the teet of major donors. Pretending they oppose the Republican party.
Yeah, weird, it's almost like we've been on a slow march towards fascism for decades and as republicans get more and more radicalised they vote for worse and worse candidates as their nominee every election.... or something.
Because as we move into the future with a larger population and worse environmental destruction, the stakes become greater.
Because we've been on the verge of losing our democracy for a couple decades now. I'm almost 50, we've been on the verge since the presidency was taken from Al Gore. It was not this way before that in my lifetime.
You think one election is going to take a nation on the brink to being in safe harbors? This is a battle for democracy that occurs over multiple elections, why is that so hard to understand? You can only repeat what your friends say?
You'd think if they really believed their own bs that democracy was at stake, they would do everything to court votes in swing states, such as, idk, the enormous Arab population in Michigan? Biden clearly prioritizes dead Gazan babies over "democracy."
Lmao typical DNC advertisement regurgitation. This election is not 'the most important election in history'.
Third party of bust
Oh wow you're the guy from OPs meme
We looking at different memes, or should I clarify my stance further?
Vote for third party or bust. A vote for Democrats or Republicans is the same path we're already on, and nobody likes this path
You're gonna get Bust. Vote third party if you want, that's your right (assuming you're a U.S. citizen of course), but a vote for third party is lowering the bar of victory for the worst human alive to hold that office.
You don't have to understand the consequences of your actions, but that's what they are. More genocide, foot on the accelerator towards climate catastrophe, pouring gasoline on what's left of women's rights and setting them on fire.
It's easy to write "fuck literally everyone except the enemies of my enemies" on a piece of paper and throw it in the trash, I don't understand why you'd go through the trouble of voting if that's all you want to do. There are FAR more effective methods of protest.
You may as well be saying "MAGA or bust".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_splitting
MAGA is "bust". OsrsNeedsF2P is saying he is ok with MAGA because he is personally wealthy enough to weather the storm.
How do you expect Trump to do as President if he wins?
Every fucking election in my lifetime has been âthe most important in historyâ
You all have cried wolf too many times. If you get eaten, itâs liberals fault.
If it's so important then why isn't Biden doing everything he can to compromise with leftists and progressives? Dude should be standing at a podium begging us like "Please! I'm sorry I blocked the rail strike I won't do it again. Federal workers can continue working remotely. I won't raise the defense budget again. I will fight to block weapon shipments to Israel. Please help me."
Or is this democracy not worth that to him?
Demanding people vote for genocide as a lesser of two evils is where we are at now.
Remember Biden isn't actually the one doing the genocide. That's Netanyahu and the other Israeli politicians. Let's not delete their blame by including Biden who has been putting in /some/ effort to stop it (not enough imo, but undeniably some). And remember that even if he stopped weapons shipments the day of the invasion, it wouldn't have changed the outcome at all.
Remember Charles Manson wasnt the one that actually did any killings, therefore he must be innocent. Biden is providing the money and weapons to kill, therefore he is responsible, and has done nothing to stop it.
See youâre just being factually incorrect now.
Israel has always been days or weeks away from running out of ammunition and bombs. If shipments stop the bombings would stop. They've reupped and reupped and Biden even bypassed Congress to continue supplying bombs.
He's completely enabling it. The UN would have already stepped in if we weren't blocking anything above saying the words, "Please Stop."
The criminal justice system recognizes this. It charges the driver, the lookout, and the trigger puller with Felony Murder.
Either vote for harm reduction or watch as the former president implements a final solution.
How is genocide harm reduction? Is Trump gonna genocide harder or something?
I mean.. yes... yes he would definitely support escalation of the killings. He has stated he thinks they aren't going far enough so trump would 100% just encourage full genocide openly
Biden is at least turning on this issue, though obviously it's way too little and too late.. but he is at least reachable and is now saying there needs to be a ceasefire.
Is biden doing enough? Fuck no.
Should he step down and let other dems run? I think yes... I would feel so much better if we had a candidate who hasn't been supporting this for as long as biden has.
But would trump be worse on this issues? Absolutely things can get so much worse..
Yes he would in fact genocide harder, maybe you should pay attention to what he says.
You can vote for The guy who says Tut Tut to the genocidal madman or the guy that says, "finish the job".
There are also other issues at play. They are both a vote for genocide but one of them would like to bring that here there and everywhere!
We need to make it personal.
Vote for Biden so I can keep my job.
As I see it, the genocide is not up for a vote since neither candidate will stop it. It's the other issues that are up for vote.
They've decided to do genocide regardless of what the voters want.
Why are you trying to pressure people to vote for the guy facilitating genocide, instead of for Biden to stop facilitating genocide?
The only explanations I can come up with are either that you support what he is doing, or on some level, you understand we have no influence on policy and so trying to get Biden to do things that will get people to vote for him is a waste of time.
This same shit happened when Obama did fuckall about Bush's policies and endlessly compromised. Of course, the voters were blamed when Obama lost the house and senate, and in 2016 too.
OP explicitly states a vote for Biden isnt a vote for genocide.
Regardless, Trump would be an absolute nightmare for the Palestinians...so your argument is not in good faith and just want to invoice emotional responses.
OP recognizes the system there is right now in the US is badly flawed, but since nobody did shit about fixing it these last 4 years you have a choice of pinching your nose and swallowing bad medicine or never have a voice again.
Well in that case, I'm explicitly stating that a vote for Biden is a vote for a dog taking a crap right in your mouth...
That's not how it works, if you vote for the guy doing a genocide, you are voting for genocide.
I am highly doubtful trump would be worse. All his rhetoric is about ending the conflict, and he was significantly more peaceful than every other president dating back to Reagan at least. He got us out of Afghanistan and didn't start a new war, unlike every other president since Reagan.
Lol.
Israel is already getting all they want from the US, you really can't call a side participating in ethnic cleansing a lesser evil, we're already at 100% evil.
But this misses the point, to even be posting this shows that you have no hope that Biden will stop the genocide. If you expected the democrats to listen to the people whose votes they need, you'd be telling us he's gonna do the thing we all want and stop the genocide any day now, and begging the dems to not fuck this up.
You can make the same argument as a christofascist about abortion, they consider all forms of birth control genocide and are single issue voters.
Politicians, like corporations, will never change unless forced to, I really dont expect anything from the democratic party except the status quo until enough incremental changes at the local and state level finally start pulling the countey back to the left...the other option is absolutely worse.
Being a single issue voter is ridiculous, but you do you.
Do you honestly think Trump would even try to negotiate a ceasefire?
Trump will do whatever people pay him the most to do as long as it's not upholding his oath of office.
People need to understand that it's possible to vote against genocide.
No, it doesn't matter that he's an active participant in the apparatus that's creating the genocide, because if he's in office there's less genocide. Which is the important part, and pretending otherwise is sophistry. If you abstain from voting, you are increasing the likelihood of more genocide and if you discourage others from voting, you are an active participant in the overall social apparatus that is probabilistically increasing the amount of genocide.
The utility calculation is dead simple: more votes for Biden in key states makes more genocide less likely, and discouraging people from voting for Biden makes more genocide more likely. Therefore, discouraging people from voting for Biden is a pro-genocide strategy and voting for Biden in battleground states is an anti-genocide strategy. I live in a solid blue state, so I reserve the right to vote third party, but I will also encourage other people to vote for Biden.
You should vote for Biden unless you live in a solid blue state, and even then it's not a bad idea.
Edit: grammar correction
Even if you're in a solid blue state, vote for Biden. Because you don't know if it's your vote that pushes your state over that line.
I think your stance on the issue is entirely reasonable.
The endgame of your utility calculation is genocidal. 30 years from now, I suspect you'll still be blasting this "vote blue no matter who" nonsense when the choice is between a dem supporting 5 genocides and a repub supporting 10 genocides. You've been anchor biased hard as fuck.
What's your plan that makes the endgame not genocidal? Remember to make it fit reality.
You say "make it fit reality", but why do I feel like what you really mean is "make sure it does not at all challenge US hegemony".
If your ecocidal political project whose institutions were devised a blink ago by 30 year old slavers starts going genocidal, your project has lost the right to exist. To put it plainly, I think we all have a duty to start thinking about what dismantling the genocidal US empire would look like: reading marx, getting armed, building networks, embracing anti-capitalism, and preparing for this country's undeniably inevitable backslide into fascism.
In your hypothetical 30 years in the future scenario, this would still be a "more genocide" and "less genocide" pick. We should never have genocide but there's no way to express that in the US binary voting system, so the choice would have to be tactical.
What do you propose instead?
Let's suppose there are going to be genocides, what's better, 5 or 10?
Thank you for defining anchor bias in such a succinct comment.
Thanks for not answering a very simple question.
Let us not forget how much Trump hates environmental regulation. He will auction off America's treasures for whoever sticks enough money in his pocket. Biden has done a pretty decent job of maintaining the old guard mentality of preservation and conservation (as imperfect as that may be).
I wish more people cared about the environment.
Anyone who isn't brainwashed by government propaganda and who is in good faith knows that supporting corrupted criminals is never the smart thing to do and that keeping voting for the "lesser evil" is exactly how sooner or later you end up with a dictator in power.
Not supporting these fueling the genocide is indeed a way to stop the genocide. The US will continue to do as it please them and aid israel government because they are confident that neither red or blue will lose the elections and they will not lose any power. Unsupporting these parties will force them to change their policies not to lose any votes and lose their monopoly on power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Israel_in_the_2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war
There's a genocide happening right now where thousand of kids already were murdered and keep getting murderer as we speak. For these innocent people and not for the love of any god people should overthrow and fight the corrupted criminals that are making it possible, not supporting scum is already the smallest thing you should do.
Do you have a source for this claim? The US has been voting this way for 250 years, and it's citizens have more rights than ever so forgive me for being a little bit skeptical.
How's those rights to bodily autonomy going?
I think these parties would sooner abandon no-voters who want change rather than actually change.
I'm voting for a third party instead of the slightly less evil fascist. I recommend y'all do as well. Dr. West and Claudia La Cruz are good options.
If you're not in a swing state I recommend you do the same.
That's your right. You aren't even required to understand that the consequences of your actions are that you're making it easier for a guy who said he wants to be a Dictator, a guy who said he "wants to finish the problem" with regards to Palestinian genocide, a guy who has probably just been outright purchased by a conglomerate of foreign influence.
You're giving that guy a helping hand.
And that's your right.
100%. Blue MAGA's going to come out in force on this thread. If you're in CA or similar "will go blue no matter what" state, there's no reason for principled leftists to vote for Biden. Same with "will go red no matter what" states.
There is this notion that most states are "solid red or blue"... except we keep getting surprised in elections, and polling has been shit since at least the 2016 election. I don't want people in TX giving otherwise Biden votes to some 3rd party when the state as a whole has been trying to become more blue.
Trump's new slogan is going to be "Take America Back". You can buy the merch on AliExpress right now. His followers don't interpret that to mean "by voting".
Save the 3rd party virtue signals for a time when we're not on the verge of a civil war. The message we should all be sending right now is unified support for the guy who can keep Trump out of the oval office.
It's a good time to not be American and not having voting for one of those pricks on your conscience
It's a bad time to not be an American because that country holds far too much sway over the rest of the world and you can't even help picking the lesser poison.
Jill Stein and Cornel fucking West are also on the ballot.
I've had "leftists" here on lemmy act like Stein and West are legitimate candidates. She hasn't gotten any traction any other time she's run and I'm not sure why this time would be any different.
The traction she got in 2016 is the reason we're having this conversation.
As you read through these comments, note that anyone using the phrase "the liberals", followed by some condescending remark, are voting for trump.
None of them are voting for Trump. Some may be voting for a third party, some will vote for Biden.
I've never heard an actual human talk that way who wasn't deeeep into MAGA.
Have you ever spoken to a Leftist? The Left hates Liberals, especially because historically Liberals have sided with fascists against Leftists.
Iâve never heard an actual human talk that way who wasnât deeeep into MAGA.
So you have never spoken to a Leftist, got it.
Then please go out and talk to any ppl other than your WoW clan lmao
Now is the time to pressure Biden. This is the tender time where leftists can actually force consessions, and those won't happen if you "Vote Blue no matter who" the situation as Biden is actively facilitating a genocide. Even if you ultimately plan on voting for him, you must pressure him now as though you may not, or you will be spinelessly contributing to even more genocide.
Biden supports genocide because Israel is a valuable ally to the US empire as a foothold in the Middle East, and will only go against that if it looks like it may cost him the election. Do not assume Biden is a good person that just needs to "see reason," that's utter Utopianism. Biden has his interests, and we have ours, so to steer him we need to fight hard, now.
Please save this sentiment for after Leftists have successfully pressured Biden into ending the genocide, not while he is actively arming Israel.
Fucking hell, the liberals are using trans people as an excuse to throw the palestinians under the bus.
Look, if you're going to disregard the palestinians' human rights, then there will come a time when you'll do the same for trans people, and they are amart enough to know that.
The queer people's greatest strength is solidarity so spoiler alert, this won't really fly, how about you use your vote as a bargaining chip instead of sTrATegIcALly voting no questions asked?
I'm trans. You're not helping anything.
Neither are you.
Great comeback, I'm sure Trans people are lining up to thank you for your internet comments.
Neither is voting blindly, which can be used as a justification for Biden doing nothing against the genocide. Being passive is making things worse.
See what happens to the Palestinians when Trump gets elected you lazy piece of shit. I'm done with you self-serving assholes.
See what's happening to the Palestinians now under Biden.
A bargaining chip backed by what? "Clean up your act or you'll lose one of your approximately 100 million votes?"
Oh, but no, we should get all our friends in on it too, so they'll lose maybe 10,000 of their 100 million votes if they don't clean up their act.
No one but you knows your favorite third-party candidate exists, and unless you want to become their campaign manager that will still be true in November. Even if you did, and even if you convinced two thirds of the people who would otherwise have voted for Biden to vote for your chosen candidate instead, Trump would still win because half the country voted for him and your guy only got a third. If you vote third party you might as well stay home.
Not voting isnât going to stop the genocide in Gaza. The US will continue to funnel them arms no matter which candidate wins this November. Trump practically campaigns on how much he hates the Jews and heâs publicly told Israel to âfinish up their warâ so that life for Israelis can go back to normal. Heâll also make life a living hell for anyone who isnât a straight cisgender male back here at home.
A vote for a candidate is not an endorsement of them or their policies, itâs a statement that you like their policies more than the other guyâs, and âsticking it to liberalsâ and ârefusing to support genocideâ (thatâs not what voting for Biden is doing, by the way â a vote for either candidate is a vote for genocide and a vote for neither is an endorsement of both) is not more important than keeping the furthest right politician America has ever seen out of office.
I'm a trans person. Here's what I'm most concerned about: the dehumanization of Palestinians and immigrants. Biden has gone along 100% with the dehumanization of these groups
how the fuck am I supposed to trust Democrats that claim to support trans people when this is how they support Palestine? This is a president thats supporting an ongoing genocide while persuing draconian immigration policies. Am I supposed to just throw those groups under the bus for my own personal gain?
You've made it abundantly clear that if Biden was pushing anti-trans policies, you'd still support him. You've made it clear there is absolutely nothing Biden could do that would lose your support.
It's not about support. It's not about 100% agreement with Biden's policies. It's about using your vote as a tactical choice to influece the government as best you can.
Each US citizen has three options: vote for Trump, vote for Biden, or don't vote. For me it's clear what the only viable choice is.
By all means protest. By all means vote undecided in the primary. Of course we should use other means to put pressure on someone like Biden to change his policies. But at the end of the day he's playing the tactical game too. And so is Israel, btw. They know that the US is weakened by the election cycle, that Biden's hands are tied right now by the need to retain centrist votes.
It's a practical decision, that should be made not based on an ideal world, but based on the real world in which we currently live and the options we actually have.
How does commiting to voting for Biden this far out from the election influence his policy? If he knows he has the leftist vote, why would he change? Why would leftists give up the only leverage allowed to them to continue genocide and liberalism, rather than protest and force concessions from Biden?
I just want to add: this isn't only a leftists thing. This is a Michigan thing. It's Muslims and Arabs who are watching their brethren slaughtered.
Yeah you're right, trump is better. /S Don't let perfect be the enemy of progress. Trump will ensure to help Israel, and he will look for more ways to hurt trans people.
Yeah you're right, genocide is not a deal breaker. /S
How is Trump who supports genocide abroad AND at home better?
In September 2023,, did you think you'd be supporting a candidate that you acknowledge is committing a genocide? Because my expectations for liberals in 2023 were already very low. But this is some Nazi Germany shit that we're living in now.
In September of 2023, I was prepared to vote blue in my State of Virginia, where we had a Red governor, a Blue Senate, and a Red House with the legislature seats all up for grabs. Now the legislative branch is Blue and the Governor is kept firmly in check and unlikely to run for President any longer.
And I never acknowledged Biden supported genocide; merely pointing out your fallacy in supporting actual genocide. In fact, the actions of the Biden administration to Palestinians in the US is contrary to your claims of the administration supporting genocide: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-protects-palestinian-immigrants-in-u-s-from-deportation-israel-hamas-war/
Doing minor shit while paying lip service to the idea that maybe you'll actually do something about your closest ally committing a genocide is WEAK. Especially when it's almost 6 months after this shit already started.
It's very clear that Biden supports this genocide and is only now doing something about it because the commoners are actually reacting to it
This is an honestly insulting thing to say. We have eyes. We know where the missiles are made. We know that a convoy of trucks can deliver more aid than air drops and a dock built out of rubble and corpses. The Biden administration supports genocide in palestine. Full stop. No amount of gaslighting can change that fact.
Why dont you pressure Biden to stop genociding people then? I have a hard and fast rule about genocide, sorry but present day me doesn't make the rules about who I vote for.
Do you believe Trump/Republicans will decrease, maintain, or increase the current genocide levels?
I mean Biden spent more on the immigrant wall than Trump, so prob less genocide somehow, seeing as how there is precedent. Funny how none of the presidents tackle the corporation side of the âimmigrant problemâ by going after people hiring the undocumented if that is such a big problem. You remove the incentive that would slow it down more than trying to torture people at the border no?
maybe it will stop the next one though
if democrats learn that allowing a genocide to unfold on their watch is going to lose them elections, you can bet they'll put more effort into stopping it
if democrats learn that allowing genocide to unfold on their watch actually doesn't make that much difference, why would they bother themselves to stop it?
a vote for a candidate is an endorsement for all of their policies, whether you want it to be or not
your reluctant vote looks exactly the same on the tally as somebody else's wholehearted vote, and votes are what politicians base their platforms on.
this is just a misconception
if the democrats lose a million votes to a third party, then yeah, they're going to modify their policies next time around
Woah, calm down buddy. No reason why there should be a next time. Republicans are already creating projects as if there isn't.
if you think voting for biden this time is more important, then by all means do that
just understand the choice you're making, rather than pretending one doesn't exist
We understand we are voting for the candidate who realizes and disapproves of Israel's treatment of Gaza (the other one would triple down and encourage it harder) as well as the candidate who supports Ukraine (the other one would give it to putin for free) and also the candidate who won't genocide LGBT community within our own country.
Anyone who doesn't vote Biden does not care about Gaza. Not at all. They're just virtue signaling and afraid to admit they want to vote for Trump.
Biden has taken months to stop veto-ing UN votes on Gaza, and even when finally abstaining, his administration pulls its punches by claiming the vote is somehow "non-binding".
Israel is still bombing Gaza, even after the ceasefire vote.
Biden says he cares about Gaza. His actions say otherwise.
He's currently gambling that he can have his cake and eat it too, ie continue supporting Israel as a valuable foothold for the American Empire in the Middle East while also paying lip service to leftists.
We need to make sure he actually feels the heat of his actions and that they may cost him the election for him to meaningfully cease aid to Israel.
That's absolutely terrible analysis. Just because you personally believe something doesn't mean leftists that disagree with you want to vote directly for a fascist, and I say that as a leftist that is probably going to vote for Biden. I'm just not delusional about it, Biden hasn't stopped the genocide at all when everyone knew it was a genocide months ago.
Yeah, it always strikes me as being super in bad faith when people accuse leftists of supporting Trump if we don't pledge undying support to Biden. Keep that shit in places like reddit and lemmy.world imo (and actually, don't even keep it there either because it's bullshit)
If I reply with STOP will these "please vote" memes go away? Because I'm gonna vote the way everybody wants me to and they're almost as annoying as the texts I get from the DNC.
You seem mad at ME because THEY don't give enough of a shit
I've been saying it for MONTHS. If they run biden they WILL lose.
I do not WANT them to lose, I am just informing you of the outcome babe.
Good thing they got electable Hillary on the ballot.
Are you suggesting she wasn't electable? She had 3 million more votes than Trump, and only lost overall because of a few thousand votes in specific states. it was almost down to a coin flip. She was entirely electable.
Bernie would not have been close to losing. Appointing another typical Democrat to represent the party will only result in close elections that can swing either way. Trump took that small margin of a win because he was not your typical candidate.
If either party can choose someone who will stand against the oligarchic trend, then there will be no contest against them. Such a candidate in either of the controlling parties would allow voters to rise above their fear based decisions as well as energize disenfranchised voters.
So yes, I am suggesting she was unelectable for those reasons. A coin flip win is clearly not electability.
I just realized a good analogy. Our two parties are comparable to Nascar in that they are stock cars with little to no room for modification that would make them faster vehicles. Trump won because was giving the middle finger to the other drivers. Bernie was disqualified because he was cheating with rocket boosters on his car.
Except for his SOTU, Biden has run a horrible campaign. And it's not clear Biden can offer that SOTU energy as much as his campaign needs.
Liberals can't challenge the liberal order, so they end up punching down with memes like these. Basically mimicking the right. This is no way to hold the democratic coalition together.
Yeah, that's not what this meme is doing. I'm sorry you feel attacked by it.
It's the same attack as liberals did against Bernie voters in 2016. And whatever, we live in a center right nation, I get the Boogeyman left is a popular target. But this passive aggressive shit is transparent as fuck.
If moderates really donât want trump to win so bad, maybe they should make some real commitments to policy changes that the left want, not just half baked, watered down âmarket basedâ solutions that get shredded to a skeleton in committee.
Moderates can scream their lungs out all they want, but talk is cheap, and if they want the left on side they should earn that and not act so entitled to their support. Trump is bad, he shouldnât win, but why is it on the left to keep him from winning? Why is it never the moderates fault for failing to hold up their end of the coalition?
Bc the left has a really hard time coming together and we wont get another election if we dont.
Hard pass there, votes are earned, and Biden has given us thousands of reasons why we shouldnt vote for him and none as to why.
are you worried about what will happen if trump wins?
I'm worried about what happens if our political elite begin operating with zero accountability. It doesn't matter who that is.
He has forgiven student loans, reunited children it their families at the border, and he is the first president to so openly acknowledge and put forth anything towards climate change.
The other option is daddy big boot stamping down on anyone who doesnt think like he.
To push left, all increments of change should be embraced. Those who stage disruptive strikes will get the majority of my respect, but by diversifying efforts we reach further ends.
I like that he's doing more to fight climate change
It's also been nice to see money put towards public infrastructure, as opposed to the last guy who put all the money into tax cuts for the rich and racist border walls. We might even get some high speed electric trains soon.
He just gave us 1800 more reasons today.
I just can't believe it's gonna be these two losers again. This is our best and brightest?
Lame.
The best and brightest put them there because it made them more money. This problem won't go away until the system is changed.
Iâm voting for the people I most like on the ballot. Isnât that what youâre supposed to do?
No, not in FPTP. You vote for the candidate who you least disagree with out of those with a reasonable chance of victory, or you waste your vote.
So⌠by voting my conscience I donât get a vote? I was literally brought up with the idea that if enough people pressure one of the parties one way or the other they might start embracing your ideas. And that was supposed to be how this worked.
The time to advance your ideas is everywhen except the presidential election, basically. At this timing, voting your conscience will really only be contributing to the spoiler effect.
why on earth would any party listen to what you have to say if you preface everything you're campaigning for with "by the way, i'm still going to vote for you"
your vote is all they want in this scenario
it would be like opening a negotiation with "by the way, i'm absolutely going to pay whatever price you think is fair at the end of this, but i'd like you to consider giving me a discount anyway"
There are other elections, primaries, donations, and general social pressure. The sad part is you're right, committing to vote for the lesser evil every time does reduce pressure and influence. However, it's not a flaw in the voting strategy, it's a flaw in the voting system.
The alternative is to abstain or vote for someone with no chance, in which case you end up with the greater evil in office who has four years to inflict permanent damage on people and further corrupt the system. You may show the less-evil party that you don't agree with them and that they need to rethink some policies, but the point is moot if they aren't in power and now the greater evil can do things like appoint three SCOTUS justices, irreversibly damage the environment, and pass voting "reform" to lessen the impact of your future votes. Your message is sent, yes, but the overall impact is bad for everyone and reduces your future influence.
In a FPTP system, that's the sad reality we are given. There really is no better choice than to vote for the lesser evil in the presidential election. That's why ranked choice voting would be such a game changer, then you truly can vote for your favorite without helping your least favorite gain office.
You have more influence the smaller the election is, which is partly why it's so important to vote in every election, especially your local elections. Local elections also more directly impact your community and broad elections are impacted by them too! Nearly all higher-up politicians start local, and the larger parties look to local elections to see what gets people out to vote. Plus, if you hate all of your options in a local election, it's much more possible to run yourself and actually have a change at winning. You aren't just voting for candidates either, there's almost always projects, new laws, and funding allocations to vote for locally.
I donât have millions of dollars to advance my ideas, all I have is my vote. If they really want it they better buckle down and earn it.
I'm sorry, that is a ridiculous statement, but I'm not awake enough to go into it in detail. Hoping someone else can help if you were being sincere.
You were lied to. It should work that way but it doesn't, and that -really- sucks.
But now what do you do with that understanding? Do you continue to try and will the lie into being, or do you act according to the truth?
vote for the person you like the most
voting for the democrats come hell or high water is how you end up with two candidates nobody wants to vote for
Let's be real, this isn't about people not voting anymore.
Those of us who have resolved to vote Biden despite much of our displeasure towards the handling of Israel/Gaze were going to do so anyways. You won't convince those who have decided not to vote this way either.
Screaming at people to vote will not make them want to vote. Worst case scenario you piss them off enough that the spite vote against you. People aren't puppets for you to control by telling them what's in their bests interests and demanding they follow through. You have to work with them in a pleasant manner if you genuinely want to convince them.
But again, I don't think this is about people not voting anymore. Some people are genuinely unhappy that others are unhappy with their options for candidates. So many people on the moderate left can't be satisfied with the fact that they have such a firm grip on intelligent voters who understand the status quo. It's not enough for them to know that our options are bleak and that we have to vote for someone supporting genocide, versus letting someone who would openly participate in genocide get in office. You genuinely want us to shut up and stop complaining and to stop criticizing the current administration.
Also, the amount of people I've seen discuss implementing mandatory voting as if it wasn't a trait of an authoritarian government is insane. Maybe if our voting process had more options it wouldn't be authoritarian, but as it stands now making voting mandatory would be little more than coercion.
Mandatory voting usually just amounts to requiring people show up at the polls, they can spoil ballots or write in joke candidates.
Itâs not exactly authoritarian, but it wouldnât really change the situation like some think it would.
Really, the moderate left needs to get it through their fucking heads that the left arenât their fucking rebound date when the moderate right shits the bed.
If they want the leftâs vote, if they fucking want to keep trump from winning, they need to appeal to voters not just patronizingly talk down to them.
The onus is as much on the moderates as it is on the left.
I consider it more so authoritarian in this context due to the expectations of those demanding it.
Joke candidates/blank ballots would not stand with them. Part of voting is being able to withhold your vote, to utilize your vote as leverage to ensure your representatives work for you, and that's a big freedom that's would be stripped away here. You're right that it probably wouldn't change much though. You'd potentially do more damage by having uninformed voters who wouldn't otherwise show up submitting ballots.
You summed up most of my feelings rather nicely though.
Personally, I don't believe the moderates truly hate Trump as much as they say they do. In fact, they appreciate him. He is the perfect looming threat that they can use to coerce us into voting for them without them having to compensate or do any meaningful work towards addressing voter's concerns.
Either that, or they are genuinely tone-deaf and out of touch. Take your pick I suppose.
If we (leftists) want ranked choice voting, we should probably vote against the guy who doesnt want any more elections after this.
The democratic base is aging just as the gop is. The base they will have to cater towards to survive, is going to be more progressive. We need to survive til then to take that situation and use it to our ends to shift the overton window as far left as she goes.
I really don't see the point in voting when the executive and legislative branches are bought and paid for with candidates I don't approve of.
Bernie Sanders' constituents are incredibly fortunate. The candidates available for my districts oppose socialized medicine, returning stock market regulations (e.g. outlawing stock buybacks), and the 32 hour workweek mandate.
When I have someone I can vote for, then I'll vote. Otherwise fuck it, waste of my time.
And we get Trump again because of idiots like you. THAT is why you vote: to prevent a fucking fascist from getting elected.
It's very nice to have that luxury, but please try to think of the less fortunate who will be hurt most by MAGA policies.
I ask again, where is the democracy?
you guys just dont want to get it do you?
i dont care about making you feel better with your right wing democrat. go actually do something about trump if you care so much.
I don't want to get it?
Half the comments in this thread consist exclusively of arguments addressed in the original post, and when I reply explaining it more simply they admit point blank to not reading my response and insist on continuing to not vote... and I'm the one who doesn't want to get it?
Sweet lord, there is no talking to you people.
I don't feel good about the democrat. I don't want to feel good about the democrat. But unlike some people I could name I will not assist in putting a self-professed dictator back in power.
What do you propose I do about Trump? Assassinate him?
nobody is even advocating not to vote, but you guys keep insisting thats what we are saying. go vote if you want to.
we are just saying scribbling on a ballot and casting it for a right winger wont change any outcome. biden is just as fascist, hes just not bragging about it. the us is already not democratic, this is just theater.
they wont let you vote their power away. you want change go organize with any leftist organization at all, strike, disrupt and disobey collectively with them. socialism is the only thing that was ever capable of stopping fascists.
the rich seem to want trump anyway and its already too late to stop him, but he doesnt matter if you force their hand instead of just apathetically voting every 4 years like it will save you from fascism.
When morons like you throw around the word fascist it loses all meaning. Fucking too busy calling Biden a fascist to prevent the actual fascist from gaining office. The irony is palpable.
"Too late to stop him(trump)"
Really? Bc it sure seems like it aint.
The spoiler effect means voting for third party is essentially a vote for trump, so we must vote for the lesser evil. Look to the Spanish anarchists. Theyve a politically engaged political party since the late 1800s bc the second tenet they list is to make life more tenable under the current (in their eyes) transitory system.
We must pursue direct action, establish systems of mutual aid, and we must vote to keep the russian agent from criminalizing leftists for thoughtcrime.
Every available avenue is to be taken, bc we dont get to be picky, and every leftward push should be embraced regardless of how far or little it pushes. Its the sum of parts that counts. You think MLK jr would refuse to stage disruptive protests bc the man standing next to him might not yet be disillusioned with capital as much as he? That is what solidarity means. Solidarity to even those that u disagree with.
Honestly? Posts like yours make me consider voting for Trump just to show the world the consequences of your attitude. Maybe after you and everyone you love end up hunted down by the death squads or put on a train, the idea that maybe, just maybe, you should've reconsidered while you still had the chance will enter your head. Fuck it, I already enlisted in the military, might as well wear the jackboot while I'm at it.
Least psycho boot boy.
Y'all were the ones saying not even to bother voting because the whole thing's rigged and hopeless, so if you can't beat 'em, fuck it, join 'em. As long as you're not in a position of power when the big guy gets taken down, it doesn't look like anyone ever cares, and you might even get a standing ovation in Canada.
Yes, vote! The Green Party needs to get at least 5% to qualify for funding.
The Green Party and the Libertarian Party are how we got Trump the first time around. The stakes are too high.
That's a bit disingenuous, don't you think? Hillary won the popular vote, but herself was completely unwilling to concede to leftists, and as such she lost some of that vote.
Toeing the establishment line isn't a good thing, nor is blaming dissafected voters the right place to blame. Blame Hillary and the DNC for fighting against progressives instead of working with them.
Why blame the Green Party and the Libertarian Party for the DNC's failure? The DNC always says we have to vote for the lesser of two evils. The DNC always says next time we can get a better candidate.
The parties are the same. The Dems just pretend to be better. When real issues come around, they have the same policies.
Third party or bust.
Anyone who says "bust" is a viable option is showing their extreme privilege, imo.
It's crazy to me that you don't have a mandatory voting system. Hopefully enough on the left gets out and votes. I do have a feeling that due to tRump losing a portion of his base, he may lose simply because of a lack of votes.
Don't be fooled by these posts. Plenty of us will be voting 3rd party but that's not what these people want either.
There aren't many people that call themselves leftist and elections are won for Democrats by getting disinterested voters to the polls.
This meme is trash and serves no purpose other than dividing people. Anyone worried about Biden to losing this election should hope he changes strategies and starts motivating voters like he did 2020.
Your strategy for stopping MAGA is... hoping harder?
Hoping is all any of us can do. There is only one leader that can fix Biden's campaign, and that person ain't me.
I've tried to message the campaign only to get ignored. I won't stop that, but one voter who doesn't live in a swing state doesn't actually have any say in the Electoral College.
We could also -- and hear me out on this -- vote for the candidate who isn't trying to make there be genocide in two countries instead of one
Switching away from first past the post voting allows people to vote for who represents them best while still counting their vote against those they dont want to win. Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoilereffect exists that makes third parties not viable.
Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.
So whatâs the hold up with the rest of the states? Consider starring a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.
I'm not okay with either of them having a second term right now.
Yeah, well, tough. One of 'em's gonna. And it might as well be the one who at least pretends not to be a genocidal dictator.
I'm much less okay with the Republicans having a first term. A vote not against Republicans is a vote to let the Heritage Society's Project 2025 move forward.
People think we have lived in a world of Democrats vs. Republicans. However, itâs always been a case of the rich vs. the not rich. The rich always wins, the rich always supports the rich, and the rich doesnât give a flying fuck about you if youâre not a millionaire or a billionaire. So we can argue over Trump vs. Biden until weâre blue in the face. And we all know Trump is a piece of shit, but if you think Biden will do anything in the next 4 years that he didnât do the previous 4 years you are delusional. I will vote for Biden, but I understand the outcome. Anyone that thinks Biden will do shit for them is either rich or lying to themselves.
Not voting is not a statement that either or is okay. Not voting sends a clear signal that you don't want voting rights, you don't believe in people having voices in how they are ruled.
If iâm being realistic with myself the reason I wonât vote is because itâs futile. The USA like to give you the illusion of choice and âDemocracyâ while at the same time having the most undemocratic two-party system any civilized nation can have. Going through the process of voting for either a genocider or a fascist is a waste of my time, and that time can be spent playing another game of league or whatever, at least Iâll have some fun. America wonât change because of my vote, or any of your votes. America will change because of coordinated, collective action from unions and when people decide to eat the rich.
And iâd even argue that refusing to vote IS democratic and not necessarily evil. Biden committed a genocide, he needs to feel the consequences of a disinterested and conflicted democratic base.
I think we should stop rationalizing and proselytizing the act of voting. Choosing to vote for red, green or blue, or not choosing to vote at all, is a personal decision. Rationalizing it wonât do anyone any favors, and demonizing people that donât vote or donât vote for your personal candidate because it doesnât fit in your ideology just makes you a bigot.
Are you participating in strikes? Have you set up a date to show up on Jeff Bezos' lawn with signs and refuse to leave?
Youâre a fool if you think that ânothing will changeâ under trump. You think youâll have a better chance affecting change after we slide even further towards fascism? You think lgbt and poc arenât going to be persecuted even more?
I like Biden and Harris and agree. They are the better choice by a wide margin. They've accomplished more in 3 years than decades worth of predecessors combined. Outstanding, really.
Well, it's fine as long as you're not voting for one of the genocidal candidates.
I worry what will happen if Trump wins or loses. If he wins, it will be terrible. If he loses, he will claim he won again and he will try another insurrection, but harder.
If I am an American voting in the election I wouldn't have voted for either Hillary or Trump in 2016 but I will definitely vote for Biden then and now.
Hillary is full of baggage which is too many to ignore. Trump, in my view at the time, isn't a fascist but a fascist-adjacent and I thought his presence sets a dangerous precedence. After the first four years, that proved correct. He became drunk with power and became a full blown fascist.
Biden definitely is a better choice in any elections against Trump. He has less baggage and still did surprisingly well that is favourable with the left.
I've still never seen or heard of any leftists who won't vote in the generals. It's like ya'll are screaming fire because you saw the mist which was the noncommitted votes in the DNC Primary.
I take it you haven't read any of the other comments in this thread, then.
Or any of the comments on the post this post is an edit of.
So! Much!! This!!!
I agree with you but can we please leave "This!" behind us?
No.
Yo you kids can't behave, I will look this now, it's Easter and I don't want to have this burning here
I understand their frustrations given how Biden was brazenly treating Israel until lately (almost like he realized there was an election going on).
Don't care, still not voting for either genocidal imperialist
So you're voting for tRump, got it