Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez warns anti-Biden Democrats about what comes next if they succeed
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., has issued a dire warning to her party about the chaos that could ensue if they succeed in pushing President Joe Biden off the ticket. And she criticized Democrats who’ve given off-the-record quotes that suggest the party has resigned itself to a second Trump term.
In an Instagram Live video on Thursday, Ocasio-Cortez warned liberals that a brokered convention could lead to chaos, in part because she says some of the Democratic “elites” who want Biden out also don’t want Vice President Kamala Harris as the nominee in his place.
“If you think that is going to be an easy transition, I’m here to tell you that a huge amount of the donor class and these elites who are pushing for the president not to be the nominee also do not want to see the VP be the nominee,” she said.
Ocasio-Cortez claimed none of the people she’s spoken with who are calling on Biden to drop out — including lawmakers and legal experts — have articulated a plan to swap out the nominee without minimizing the serious legal and procedural challenges that are likely to ensue.
Ocasio-Cortez also highlighted the racial, ethnic and class divisions that appear to have formed between the majority of those pining to blow up the ticket — led mostly by white Democrats and media pundits — and those elected officials who feel they and their constituents have too much at stake to upend the process at this point and so are willing to do the work to re-elect Biden-Harris. She alluded to this cultural divide in her video when she spoke out against anonymous sources expressing a sense of fatalism on behalf of Democrats about what might happen if Biden remains on the ticket:
What I will say is what upsets me is [Democrats] saying we will lose. For me, to a certain extent, I don’t care what name is on there. We are not losing. I don’t know about you, but my community does not have the option to lose. My community does not have the luxury of accepting loss in July of an election year. My people are the first ones deported. They’re the first ones put in Rikers. They’re the first ones whose families are killed by war.
AOC and Bernie are both saying this and I agree 110%. In all occasions. The most important thing is we all make a plan to go out and vote. Talk to other democrats and make sure they fight that demoralization and go out and vote. There is so much at stake with Project 2025 that I dont even care about these headlines anymore.
Agreed. She also pointed out that early voting ballots go out in September. A new campaign would have an eight week runway if it started now.
His health is declining fast and way too many people think he looks too old (both candidates are) and too mentally busted to last 4 more years. Let alone him even staying coherent another 6 months. He is 100% unable to coherently and quickly speak anymore and it's not going to magically get better. The real issue is that they should have done something about it 4 months ago so a better candidate could have been picked and it could have looked like Bidens choice to no run for a second term.
I still think the best chance is to put in someone else, but it's pretty much too late for them to get their shit together.
This whole issue is happening because he decided to try for a second term. That is the origin of this cluster fuck. Because he said he wasn't going to.
He never said he wasn't going to. A media outlet reported on rumors he'd only committed to one term and everyone took that as gospel. Turns out he sort of maybe signaled it one interview with Slate as a maybe, he never said he'd only do one term.
I’m beginning to think the play is for Joe to only last till the election because there’s no fucking way the country is going to learn about and be excited by one single person with the amount of time the completely incompetent DNC has left us with. If Joe decides he’s too banged up on day one, he can leave the office then.
Likely, but the problem is that people don't want to vote for the guy that may have alzheimers, and Harris isn't very liked. They needed to do something months ago. Either a different candidate or a shit ton of good PR for Harris.
Thank you. I’ve been saying this for years now and usually get downvoted for it, which makes me sad – not because I care about downvotes but because so many people seem not to understand that this is 1933 and we need to be all-in against fascism right now.
Biden just stepped down, so it’s even more important that we unite against the threat. I don’t care who’s on the Democrat ticket – whether it’s Kamala or anyone else, even Biden’s bitey dog – this isn’t the time to debate policy. We need to vote and convince everyone who isn’t a fascist to vote against this. If we don’t, they will kill us, and that’s not hyperbole.
Please vote.
This is a good fucking take, have to say. She very obviously knows what she's talking about extremely well, has the best interests of those she represents at heart, and knows how to express it all clearly for the average layperson. You don't get a lot of politicians of that caliber.
No wonder the Republicans hate her so much!
I can’t understand the people who dislike her. My sisters don’t like her either and think she’s “dumb” but every time she speaks, she makes what seems to me to be well thought out, rational arguments.
Because she's actually left and they know it. Most Democrats are centered left or even right.
I see a lot of people who hate her for not being left enough. Whilst I sympathise with that stance to an extent, from the perspective of someone in the UK, the US seems so shockingly right wing that I'm surprised that a figure like Ocasio-Cortez exists at all. That is to say that I wish America had more left wing politicians, but given the current lack, AOC is a refreshing presence.
The dumb person is your sister.
Because they're gobbling up the mainstream media narrative that labels both progressives, and women who are politicians, as irrational and naive. AOC gets the whole venn diagram of bullshit thrown at her.
Yes, even women can internalize misogyny. You only have to go as far as your local fundie churches to hear women saying FeMaLEs are too emotional to be president or that women should be subservient to their husbands because women just no brain good compared to men.
AOC for President.
It'd be nice to have a competent candidate for once.
Met her briefly at a Sanders campaign rally. Would vote for her in a heartbeat.
see, I have hella respect for Bernie and his heartfelt endorsements (i.e. local, state reps) carry weight. national endorsements are usually more political and harder to guage.
this genuinely creates an internal, personal dilemma.
edit: the deed is done and, I imagine, Bernie is released from any obligations owed for what he got into the biden agenda. will be interesting to watch.
She turned me around. I'm riding with Biden. I'm serious. I hope the Democrats don't fuck this up even more. If Kamala can't taker her rightful place without the donors get in the way then fuck them all. I'm voting for a mentally compromised candidate. I hate this system.
Dammit Marvin you depressed dipshit, I hate it when you’re right.
Samesies, thank you.
Not if they yank him off the ticket, first. That's been half the joke of this election.
Biden was never seriously primaried, even as people like Dean Phillips were screaming about his collapsing mental state. Now we're days out from the Dem convention and suddenly people want to do a quicky re-vote? Its too late you assholes. You blew it.
I'm with AOC that a contested convention will almost certainly produce some kind of horrid ghoul like Joe Manchin at the top of the ticket. Curious to see how disposable the party has Kamala. But the idea that Biden is somehow worth defending is asinine. Backing Biden as he deteriorates in real time is a bad move by AOC and won't be repaid even if Biden does win the election, because he's always been a corporate creature with no love for a couple of Brooklyn leftists like AOC and Sanders.
A Manchin that wins is better than an ideal candidate that loses.
Man... I don't even know anymore. Manchin has only remained a Democrat due to the deep history of unions in his state. He's the definition of DINO.
If he no longer needed to only worry about the votes of West Virginians, he could drop the farce altogether, and switch parties as soon as he's sworn in (or at the very least, rule as a Republican would have, and cripple the Democrats in our legislative branch).
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/21/opinion/biden-west-wing-aaron-sorkin.html
But there’s something the Democrats can do that would not just put a lump in people’s throats with its appeal to stop-Donald-Trump-at-all-costs unity, but with its originality and sense of sacrifice. So here’s my pitch to the writers’ room: The Democratic Party should pick a Republican.
At their convention next month, the Democrats should nominate Mitt Romney.
Nominating Mr. Romney would be putting our money where our mouth is: a clear and powerful demonstration that this election isn’t about what our elections are usually about it, but about stopping a deranged man from taking power. Surely Mr. Romney, who doesn’t have to be introduced to voters, would peel off enough Republican votes to win, probably by a lot. The double haters would be turned into single haters and the Nikki Haley voters would have somewhere to go, Ms. Haley having disqualified herself when she endorsed the leader of an unsuccessful attempt to overthrow the government.
Does Mr. Romney support abortion rights? No. Does he want to aggressively raise the minimum wage, bolster public education, strengthen unions, expand transgender rights and enact progressive tax reform? Probably not. But is he a cartoon thug who did nothing but watch TV while the mob he assembled beat and used Tasers on police officers? No. The choice is between Donald Trump and not-Trump, and the not-Trump candidate needs only one qualification: to win enough votes from a cross section of Americans to close off the former president’s Electoral College path back to power.
I trust AOCs judgement, although it might just be both options are equal as long as the party can commit to one. The worst possible outcome is non-commitment, as it's the worst of both worlds.
Stick with Biden, you rally 100% with a flawed candidate and highlight all the good he's done with a flawed Congress (a majority in name only on progressive issues). Can win if you don't repeat 2016 mistakes, which at this point I don't think we'll be taking the rust belt for granted.
Abandon Biden 100%, you quickly side with an obvious choice and build a campaign. Time isn't on your side but you aren't dealing with a much baggage. Can win if the big tent party can agree on things and rally behind the choice even if it's not their first choice. Kamala is boring but probably would be the pick with least resistance.
The problem is neither is happening, so you get Biden with sub-100% support and buying into the age narrative rather than pivoting to his strengths, which is very much a losing strategy. Those resigned to losing probably know this is our trajectory unless something big happens (e.g. Biden sheds the age narrative somehow or drops out leading to a clear successor.)
My hope? We get a 2016 surprise in our favor: polls say Trump wins 99% odds yet Biden pulls off an upset. Wouldn't that be sweet irony...
The Trumpanzees are going to screech about the election being rigged regardless what happens, I'd rather not give them any extra ammo for people to take them seriously about it. I'd like to see Trump absolutely blown the fuck out with votes, I want a 98-2% split in favor of Biden. The only votes I want going toward Trump are Guilty votes from his jury.
Yeah, I'd love a blowout but we know that's not going to happen. Let them whine, if they want to take up arms I just want to be on the side that still gets to control the drones.
if dems, indies, and the few remaining "sane republicans". go out and vote, you will see a landslide. binden is not inspiring a groundswell. if the groundswell comes it will be due only to public terror. I would rather get a vote_based_on_terror + passing_of_the_torch_to_our_young_victims_cuz_we_sure_fucked_up vibe from the US population at large
Fuck that. They've already proven that they will scream rigged regardless of the outcome.
It'll be 98-2 in popular vote, but it'll be 49-51 in electoral college.
Americans have a 2 week memory. There is plenty of time to replace Biden.
That situation won't happen as Trump would sue and the Supreme Court would agree there is fraud with no evidence to back it up.
I think that'll more likely be Congress, unless it's as close as 2000 was. A margin like 2016 would be harder to override through courts, but if GOP gets both chambers I can see them just overriding the vote somehow, January 6 style.
Well they just succeeded. So what now?
Probably Kamala.
Not ideal but then again the Democrats have a history of making stupid-ass decisions.
Now we get to find out if she's right or not
This is illogical. That's impossible to know unless you have a looking glass into the alternate timeline where Biden doesn't drop out, as well as the timelines of different people replacing him.
Or you can look at basic probability. I could totally end up being wrong, but I find it incredibly unlikely that the DNC will nominate anyone but Kamala. They (hopefully) realize they need to get their shit together and choose a candidate ASAP.
Even if Kamala is the only alternative, my point is that Kamala losing doesn't mean Joe would have won, and her winning doesn't mean he would have lost.
Probably lose after they put themselves in the untenable position.
Whoever replaces Biden will still immediately get the "I would vote for a literal hamster instead of Trump" crowd which is like 40% of the nation.
Oh you mean reasonable people
Confirmed, would vote for a literal hamster at this point.
That was the only vote that Biden had sewn up. Everyone else was fleeing for the exits.
Yeah, because the "Anyone But Bush" strategy worked so well.
That's an absurd comparison. This election has nothing in common with Bush's second election. Bush never would have survived a 10th of Trumps bullshit, he nearly got impeached for politicizing the DOJ using a litmus test. Fairly insignificant in comparison to Trump trying to blackmail Ukraine, and starting the jan 6 insurrection.
Keep deluding yourselves that simply going "Republican is bad" as your only strategy while offering nothing, you're going to continue to lose election after election because the American electorate has never responded well to that.
But yeah, Democrats have some such a bang up fucking job of losing the House and now leading America down this absolute shit show of political genius here mid-election. Some great political strategy at work.
It worked in 2020.
Can you hear other people when they talk, or are you just waiting for your turn?
That was pre-Tea Party
I'm just stating the absolute floor.
Yeah, sticking with the guy who is losing in all the polls and can't speak would have been a much better option.
Democrats pretty much put America in a lose-lost situation here. There's is no good option here.
No arguments from me. I wonder how long Biden's ego has been an impediment to Dems. Definitely for the past month but I suspect it's been a lot longer.
Switching to someone with a 40% chance is better than sticking with a 26% chance.
What untenable position?
They have no idea, just doomer division talk
Boooo
She ain't wrong.
I'm willing to admit that I also wanted this situation sorted out and handled before now with someone energetic and capable of getting people excited to vote. I've since decided that this is a problem for the Democratic party to handle, not me. Their candidate could be Minnesota's very own dog mayor for all I fucking care.
If Biden stays in and loses, AOC doesn't want centrists to blame the left. They will anyway.
If he stays in and wins, centrists will consider it a mandate to continue moving right from a position that includes Trump's border policy and genocide.
You’re acting like Centrists don’t want climate change legislation, or didn’t support the Inflation reduction act. Or that they don’t support a wealth tax.
Sinema and Manchin do not represent the full body of Centrists. There are hundreds of them in Congress that supported all of these initiatives.
The Problem Solvers Caucus has 32 Democratic members. And they were notably opposed to keeping Build Back Better intact. They very much do not support a wealth tax and are always shaky on climate change. Centrists are a small problematic sliver of the Democratic caucus.
Centrists? Ooohhhh, republicans who would “have a beer with Obama”.
Nah, you all vote straight R. Own your bullshit.
Y'all gotta start thinking strategy instead of getting all emotional.
Humans are surprisingly easy to manipulate. If you come across a centrist, that's a perfect candidate to hit em with communist propaganda and get them thinking critically about how Republican bullshit is bullshit.
The blame and shame strategy doesn't work cuz it's just reactionary.
It's a little more effort dragging the centrists to the left, but we can do it with a bit of kindness and understanding. Unless they prove to be unwaveringly intolerant, in which case blame and shame into oblivion.
(I say this from experience. I have been pushed from right leaning as a teen, to pretty far left from first seeing how shitty Republicans are, and then from kind internet strangers explaining different leftist ideologies to me)
In the USA at least, they are not centrists.
A centrist here is someone who votes Republican but won’t admit to it. They are worse than republicans because they are cowards and won’t own up to voting for the racist fascists.
I wonder how people like you become so far gone. It’s like you must be extreme left or it doesn’t count. I would love to walk a mile in your shoes and see how you got here.
In my 20 years of voting, I’ve voted for a republican precisely twice, one that was the only judge on the ballot and he was recommended by our state union. The other was a local moderate mayor in a sea of further right whackjobs, there was no dem on the ticket.
Keep an open mind, brother, you’ll learn a lot more in life.
See this is your problem, you think anyone who isn’t progressive is a republican. Nice job adding to their tent and limiting yours.
Nope. Just less than adequate.
If they vote dem, they're adequate.
I'm not super happy with "adequate", but that's why we call it "adequate".
Lemme clarify: There are a whole host of issues we need to keep in mind as we do our little part in the hopes of directing our own country:
We have a list of basic minimums, and for me they look like that quick list above, but surely with a few more I'm not thinking of right now.
I will judge the character of governments, governors and people according to the completeness of their support for that list. So there's a long spectrum of increasing inadequacy between progressive people and republicans, and people who are fail the test are just somewhere on that spectrum.
And that's okay: everyone gets their opinion. Some people aren't fit to lead, though, nor to manage our consolidated and shared resources (taxes), and those people need to be retrained for a role where they CAN work effectively.
You vote straight R, you are a Republican. What you pander and pretend online doesn’t matter.
If Sinema and Manchin hadn't stepped up to represent the full body of all centrists to perfection, some other centrists would step up to do so.
I think you’re buying into the Right Wing kool-aid just a little too much.
Obama was able to pass the ACA even with the Centrists. Biden was able to pass the largest green bill in history after concessions were made for Manchin, who particularly didn’t like the stick part of the act, which would have impacted him personally.
This aged like milk
Aging like milk implies that she isn't right about what she said.
Give it until November. If the Biden replacement wins by a landslide, then sure, it will age like milk.
Otherwise, so far, it's aging like fucking fine wine - and I'm not liking it.
That is to be determined.
On paper, her argument is sound. There are plenty of moderates who are still not down for a female president, let alone one as outspoken as Kamala Harris.
I personally think her no-bullshit attitude is exactly what we need, but we will have to see how many people agree
I live in deep red country, and work in a deep red career field, a lot of today's Trumpers have never forgiven Obama for being black, popular, and competent. They took it personally. Harris is going to mobilize the fuck out of them.
I think she's the right pick, I think she can govern well, I'm voting for her 100%. But the Dems need to be prepared. This was a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't situation for them. But replacing Biden isn't even a fraction of the work they're gonna have to do, and AOC is on point for speaking up about it.
It's a good thing Diane Feinstein died, with the DNC's history of acting under pressure she'd have been their #1 pick
Good lord, they absolutely would have gone with her.
Those Trumpers were going out to vote for him regardless of who his opponent is.
I think they were referring to if Harris beats Trump
Ah. Well, same deal either way. They're already enraged at the world.
No bullshit attitude?
The only person that spews more bullshit than Harris is Trump.
Don't get me wrong, I'll still vote for her.
She is a shitheel, though.
Can you articulate which part you think aged like milk?
Nah she specifically said that Biden being forced out and Kamala not being supported by the establishment would be bad - which makes sense because incumbency is a huge advantage
More like hydrogen-7.
Fucking finally a progressive with some sense (I say this as a progressive myself).
We need to be real here, this isn't a fucking joke.
‘Could lead to chaos’. Ma’am, that ship has sailed. When even high ranking party members openly doubt the president’s ability to get elected, much less actually lead, you’ve clearly lost control of the situation.
Will replacing Biden at this stage be easy? Of course not. But he shouldn’t have been in the Oval Office in the first place. Running a candidate this frail once was a gamble… doing it twice is suicidal.
Democrat leadership only has itself to blame for this predicament.
When I voted in the primary, there was one name on the ballot: Joe Biden. Anybody who thinks that was a free and fair election is on crack.
There were states with multiple people on the ticket and Biden won them hands down.
Why did some states have multiple people and some only one?
Because there were no serious candidates who filed because the message from party leadership was clear: the incumbent is running, it's his.
Every state has their own way of doing primaries, is the short answer. Probably people were eligible to run in some states but not in others for varies reasons.
Hopefully someone else chimes in with a better answer than I could give.
It's annoying that she put this on Instagram where there's no scrobble function, and she then spends so much time leading up to it.
For those not willing to sit around listening to off-the-cuff meandering, AOC's points:
Ohio requires political parties to submit their candidates' names before the Democratic convention. If the convention is contested, Democrats likely won't be able to vote there effectively.
AOC says that swing states might have enough legal ambiguity in the electoral code that Republicans can challenge any voting results, and then let it escalate to the Supreme Court who can throw out the Democratic result.
Democrats are divided on who would be the replacement candidate, with many of the people calling for Biden to step down opposing Harris as well.
The Biden/Harris campaign has $100M of campaign funding that will not be able to be transferred to another ticket. (Maybe it can be transferred to Harris? She mumbles a bit there).
Anecdotally, when AOC sat "in rooms with those people" that call for Biden to step down, they didn't seem to have a proposed game plan for any sort of replacement. This includes lawyers who ought to know whether this creates legal trouble and people in the legislature.
There is a risk that if the Democratic convention is contested, it won't be concluded before the deadline to submit the ticket in more states, which is two days after the scheduled end.
There are no candidates that poll way better than Biden.
Many mail-in votes can already be made in September or October. A new candidate would have to have a succesful campaign by that time.
Biden is systematically underestimated (by Democrats and fianciers?) in his ability to rally 'demographics typically not cared for'.
Biden does great with elderly people, which may not transfer to other Democrats.
Democrats opposing Biden seem to be mostly concerned about big donors, not popular support.
Democratic party members speaking anonymously to the press is both strategically stupid and undemocratic. They should have either spoken out publicly or kept it behind closed doors. The fact that they did may be why Biden is polling so bad.
Biden gets energized from having people around him, which was not the case for the debate with Trump.
My personal opinions:
So from everything AOC says, all that seems reasonable to me is (1) the observation that there is no good Democratic alternative plan, (2) the worry that the convention might run long so the alternative candidate can't appear on the ticket, (3) the possibility that a succesful Republican coup is significantly more likely with a candidate that might provide loopholes for the Supreme Court to work off of than with Biden, and (4) the possibility of losing Ohio if Biden would otherwise have won it.
However, even here, the parts of the alternative plan she is most worried about seems to be the legal trouble, which she seems most worried about only if the Democrats aren't on time with selecting a candidate. It seems to me that if only the Democrats are able to rally behind a new candidate before the Ohio deadline two days before the convention, none of her concerns apply more to the new candidate than to Biden. If it happens after the Ohio deadline, it only matters if there is a technicality that disqualifies the new candidate and Biden would otherwise have won Ohio and that technicality determines whether a coup succesfully occurs.
If you view it as a full screen reel and not a regular post in a feed then you should be able to select a time. Instagram is stupid.
Ohhh I gotta see if that's why I feel like "randomly" I can't scroll on videos there
Thanks for the synopsis.
In regards to a few of your points:
AOC makes solid points and so I take a few things differently from you and say she is precisely right in her analysis. I think if the Dems switch then we get a Humphrey/Mondale mashup where the Democrats are absolutely trounced in the general.
The time for this crap was 2 years ago, not the past month. Democrats need to find a stiff upper lip and back Biden with all their might.
Too late. He dropped out.
Time to see who was right. Im damn positive it will be those who are cheering today who will be crying in November.
It's going to be a hot mess, that's for sure.
Is it not called "scrubbing"? Scrobble is music
If Biden can't make the case for his cognitive ability to fulfill the requirements of the office internally to his own party, how does he expect to stand up and fight the shit storm that the GOP will escalate in the coming months?
Media has already decided the case. It's a rigged court. Any other Dem candidate will get the same treatment.
I'm sure one who isn't a senior citizen wouldn't struggle to justify their cognitive ability for the role.
No, they'd likely find some other avenue of bullshit to peddle.
I mean, did they really have to try that hard? The man said he was proud to be the first black woman vice president.
And Trump has said...damn where do I even begin?
But all the media focuses on is Biden's gaffes.
So yes, they try REALLY hard.
When he followed up the debate by calling Zelensky Putin and confusing his own VP with Trump, there’s really nothing else to be said. You can’t make those mistakes. Not in that office. There’s simply no denying those clips.
Are people here finally understanding the consequences of removing Biden? Will I continue to be berated for asking for evidence of the claims around him?
If Biden is on the ballot, I will vote for him. I also want him off.
But, frankly, we need to scare the pants off the Democratic party if there is going to be any chance they change their behavior.
Where are the five great younger candidates they have have been fostering to be ready for something like this? Nowhere, because they keep putting all their effort into one entrenched candidate and then force them through no matter what. Look how disastrous it was when they kept pushing Hillary when Bernie was doing so well, she lost. Now so many people are saying "no" to Biden, what should we expect will happen?
If history is our judge, we're going to lose, whether we can afford to or not. Because even if we supported Biden right now with solidarity, a lot of people are going to not vote for him, whether we like it or not.
Would it be better if the Democratic party didn't see how unhappy people were and we all pretended it would be ok and told them we would just vote for any candidate they give us no matter how bad?
What could possibly go wrong when the higher ups in the party completely sabotage the candidate and use the results of that as justification for telling him to get out?
People have understood. Biden is a sure loss, he literally cannot win. So the next best option is Harris. The question mark is, as AOC points out, will these wealthy donors realize that or will they sabotage the party.
Biden still needs to go. No question. Biden attempting to campaign will put Trump into office.
"Biden is a sure loss, he literally cannot win"
Since you have your crystal ball handy, can you let us know next week's winning lottery numbers?
did you ever get them lottery numbers?
All those polls of him losing are within the margin of error, not to mention that polls are, while not completely unreliable, not completely trustworthy, either. Remember when all the polls showed Trump losing?
Bullshit. This was bullshit yesterday, it was bullshit a month ago, it was bullshit at the beginning of the year, and it was bullshit in 2020.
I wanted Bernie to win. I wanted Biden to decline seeking reelection. I wanted Biden to take a harder stance on Gaza, I want the democrats to be better at messaging. However, there is scant evidence that Biden is likely to lose, and this claim that it's a "sure" thing is absolutely fucking wrong because it's far from certain. Fuck you, fuck every single one of you liars pushing this absolutely shit unsupported narrative.
Every single poll that shows Biden losing shows young people voting for Trump, and that's a clear indicator of unreliability. Every other method of prediction put Biden in the fucking lead, but conviently no one's talking about that. I fucking wonder why?
You might not like to admit it, but voters do not like Biden. The reason Biden finally stepped down now is because devastating polling just came out of Michigan, ontop of all the other polling you want to deny is there.
Trump is not gaining votes, Biden has been losing them. Trump already has basically all the votes he's going to get.
I ain't arguing if people like him or not! If so, good; I hope everyone hates his guts but that's not the question being asked, is it? The question is "How likely is Biden to win?" and I'm saying your answer of "0%" is unsubstantiated.
See, that's a decent argument (assuming it's true) of Biden having a disadvantage. It still doesn't justify your stated position, but at least it's relevant.
This makes sense, fits roughly with what I've seen, and is consistent with my view of things if I modify it to put more weight in the polling data.
Show your work or delete this bullshit.
We all saw the debate
I didn't, and frankly none of what I've heard was particularly surprising or concerning, and my decision of who to vote for would never be effected. Biden was a low-energy flubster, Trump told obvious lies, the sky was blue, the ocean is salty, and bears shit in the goddamn woods. Everybody stop the presses! Bear shits in woods! Forest Rangers contemplate the potential necessity of eurhanizing bear due to woods-shitting incident.
The last few weeks have been a fucking clown show.
I didn’t and didn’t need to. I’m voting for his administration. Not him. I’m voting AGAINST Trump. Not FOR him.
That's great and that's what every committed Dem voter is doing. Given that the race is more about stopping Trump than anything else, wouldn't the best way to approach that be to back the candidate who is most likely to beat him?
If you watch the debate, it's abundantly clear that Biden is not that candidate. Things like optics and vibes shouldn't matter in an election, especially when the other side's policy positions are as abhorrent as Project 2025. Unfortunately, when it comes to courting votes in battleground states, they do matter.
And I’ll back whoever they put up against Trump. I don’t care about Biden. I care about not having Trump.
Yes, Harris is articulate and assertive. She is clearly a better choice. The public wants someone sharp and focused. While I believe Biden is a capable president, public image affects votes whether we like it or not. Currently, his image has many Democrats feeling discouraged, though they would likely still vote for him. However, I think Harris can change that once she starts campaigning.
It isn't about who you vote for. It's about who everybody else is voting for.
The Democrats were never worried about the "vote blue, no matter who" crowd. They're worried about independents, and the polls were saying that Biden would lose. If there were enough voters who would vote for anybody with a D next to their name, this wouldn't even be a question.
The MAGA trolls here pretending to be leftists won’t ever see the reason in this.
IMO; Biden shouldn’t be forced out.
That way does lead to chaos, and a worse chance in November than with Biden.
Though Biden sucks as a candidate and is very unlikely to win as things now stand.
So, imo, best-case, is Biden choosing to step down. and choosing to stump and campaign full-hog whoever does become president.
I wish our political leaders were rational enough to listen when everyone tells them their wrong and that their putting ego before their responsibilities.
Everyone isn't saying that about Biden. Monied interests are saying that about Biden.
Biden cannot be forced out. It is Biden's decision. There is no harm in discussing this topic while we're waiting for the nomination. Biden has until the virtual convention that is scheduled for the start of August to make a decision. Either option, Biden staying in or dropping out of the race has risks. We need to rally around whoever the candidate ends up being.
I think it makes strategic sense for Harris to takeover and pick Whitmer for her VP. My opinion is a moot point, because I have no say in this. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like Biden is thinking about odds and strategy. He's thinking about his ego.
Sure he can be forced out.
There’s lots of ways. Like the DNC deciding “nope”.
Even if they don’t go that way, donors pull out, party backstabbing.
Plenty of things to do.
Biden cannot be forced out based on the Democratic Party's rules as written. The Democratic Party changing the rules to dump Biden would be a historic first. It would be a bashed-slammed-bomb-cyclone-fire-tornado-buzz-word news story that would be the only headline for days, maybe weeks.
Donors are already pulling out. Fundraising is down. Obama signaled Biden should drop out. There will undoubtedly be more in the next two weeks. edit: typo
Based on a court ruling from ‘16, “they’re a private group. They can do what they want.”
Sure, they can do whatever they want. See how doing whatever they want plays with voters though. This would be taking the nuclear option for political parties. If the Democratic Party forced out Biden, angry and/or apathetic Americans would be talking about it for at least the next two election cycles, possibly longer. That's assuming we win of course and the Republican Party hasn't killed us all in death camps.
edit: This would be different than Bernie. Biden has won the primary based on the DNC's rules. edit: typo
Donors have already pulled out saying they want a new candidate. They aren't stupid enough to throw away their money on a candidate that will 100% lose.
And the Trump campaign hasn't even started the big spending.
Doners don't want Biden's tax hikes, it's not about electability.
They would have demanded Biden to step down far earlier if this was the case.
And they would never have backed 2020 Biden to begin with.
They waited until they saw weakness.
Well, congrats I guess
No shit. The time for not backing Biden was in the last primary. If the Democrats weren't so fucking short sighted and power hungry, they would have had a primary all of last year instead of now having to back this geriatric horse against a geriatric, racist, fascist, horse in this race.
That said, I'll be voting for the geriatric horse because the alternative will end up getting my minority ass killed.
Biden just stepped down for elections
Yeah, just saw that on my news feed. While I applaud and massively respect him stepping down, it's way late for this I'm my opinion, especially with this dragging out.
Democrats put themselves in a no win situation with this and while I'm still going to vote for not the geriatric, racist, fascist, cocaine addled horse, the rest of America probably won't after Republicans tar the entire Democratic party as incompetent.
i've decided to turn around. i'm ridin with biden!
Even before today's news of Biden stepping down, I feel the public party infighting about him/trump/ect instead of getting anything of substance into the news stream is an indication the current democratic party is over. As in effectively not a party.
Thus to add to AOC's comment: A very bad time for this as our system has two semi stable states... 2 party rule.. Or one party rule. (Sure outside groups/parties can and do help mold the main parties to their actual policy goals, but and if are popular enough get merged in or replace a main party)
This means can a new party grow out of the ashes of current one and actually organize in time for the election. (Obviously this "new" party gets to use the name/infrastructure of the one I'm calling over so may just look from the outside a shuffle of administration if fast.. And it needs to be fast)
And while I was happy to vote for Biden, and now presumably Harris, the lack of strength I see from Democrats on policy very much concerns me. (Not even it needs to be as far left as many on here seem to want it but it must be functional.. So those more left can debate actual policy.. Not that issues even exist.. Or ignoring it all together)
One sliver of hope is this can be used to pivot the talking points back on track.. But given the media climate I am not hopeful.
The Democrats seem to be in better shape than the Republicans. The only thing that's keeping their party together is Trump. Democrats have several candidates they could run. Republicans have only one. They've become the cult of Trump.
Not sure I agree republicans are worse off (as much as I might wish they were.)
But hopefully Kamala Harris picks a good running mate and with them gives a proper voice and direction to the party. (My concers aside I want to see the government work for the best interests of the people at the end of the day.. And not for specific groups of people, or corporate interests. (And this includes calling out business owners when they put their business of any size over the needs of the people and community)
Uhm... Well the news just came in.
Honestly, I'll vote for whomever is on the Democratic tricket. Normally, I would seek the highest quality to be at the top of the ticket. But the other ticket is Trump/Vance. So, yes, I will vote for the ticket that runs against Trump. I vote for a party and for policies. Not a person.
Edit: Looks like Pres Biden left the race.
I think JD Vance is representative of where the moneyed interests are right now in regards to the election. They don't like Trumpism, but they see the Democrats as weak and compromised by economic progressivism. As much as they don't like Trumpism, they hate progressive economic policies, like increasing taxes for the rich, much more. Moneyed interests see that Biden is a weak candidate, that there's not really another Democrat who's stronger, and they want to distance themselves from progressive economic policies as much as possible, so they're going all in on Trump and just hoping they can get him and the Republicans to become less extreme and move nearer to the center.
I think Trump will win the election, with the support of these moneyed interests. However, I think they are taking a huge risk betting that Trump and the Republicans will moderate their politics. If they're wrong, they might be about to unleash a monster they won't be able to control. If Trump and the GOP generally do moderate, they will lose the support of the far right, who will feel betrayed and may react violently.
I don't think moneyed interest give a shit about progressivism as a whole, but the "tax the rich" components of progressivism scare the bejesus out of them.
I agree. Oligarchs are playing with fire here. If we go full fascism, money won't protect you from the violence of the state anymore. Your fortune 500 company, your mansions, your cars, your bank account, any and all can be seized to support the fascist regime. And if you protest, no matter how high your former social standing, you'll get sent to a camp.
Well hey, the roman empire had a pretty good run for a bit. Let's roll the dice and see /s
In all seriousness I don't know how America as a country can survive giving presidential authority to a insurrectionist figure head and open political pawn. There's a point where you realise the political institutions do not and have not ever served your best interests and that sh*t always ends badly.
It's not the "taxing" the rich that has them concerned. They see us sharpening our spoons.
No... They don't even see us as shadows anymore. We barely make an impact. Attempts to fight back are crushed by a self regulating system of oppression and order. They may commit to performative acts that make the rich look like they know what's going on but they couldn't be bothered to care to think about if we are actually coming for them cause they are so detached from it all. Just look at the panic on their face anytime someone actually slips through the cracks and gets even near one of their yachts.
They only see the big game being over and not being able to buy whatever they want and do anything they feel like to make a buck.
They aren't scared of us. Why should they be? Everything is designed to protect them.
Yeah, that's what I meant.
But... Now hear me out. I'm a mostly lifelong Democrat who is tired of seeing this system get more and more corrupt each cycle. Maybe this capitalist system needs a reboot. I'm losing hope that any candidate the DNC runs is going to fix any of what needs fixing.
It's almost as if they've actually already quietly conceded defeat and are just backfilling the position out of, fuck I don't know, adherence to decorum? I hope I'm just jaded but I have a bad feeling about it.
Go Joe Biden!
This gives me a moment of pause. I have grave concerns about Biden's ability to campaign, concerns that apparently seem to be shared by Obama after their June fundraiser in LA. I also have serious concerns that if the fundraising class decide to withhold support from Biden, and that between a lack of in person campaigning and a lack of funding, his whole campaign is going to be DOA. Biden can't lean on grassroots fundraising they way Bernie could, and it's now become clear that the reason Biden hasn't been making a lot of appearances is because they wanted to keep it under wraps until now so that there wouldn't be a real primary. But here we are in the real deal and Biden is struggle bussing through interviews. My assumption has pretty much been that he'd step down from the presidency and Harris would become the natural candidate in his place as his VP (Along with the hilarious side effect of making republicans waste all that money on "47" flair). But I guess AOC thinks this won't be the case. I wish I knew better what she seems to know.
She knows that the donors don't like the choice of Harris either and want either a perfect candidate that likely doesn't exist at this point or assume they can just wait it out and be fine because they are wealthy.
I think AOC is just scared of the oligarchy that is disconnected from the ground as well now and what it means when money wins an election and those with it aren't interested anymore unless it is to buy their new slave labor pool in a single election.
Yeah, I would never assume the DNC isn't capable of making a choice that's just utterly disconnected from reality, like somehow concluding that Pelosi is the best candidate to run.
Nancy came out as for an open primary. AOC is warning her ilk about why that's a bad idea, and making sure her constituents know it.
So you were saying?
Vast majority of AOC's support is from the acronym, AOC.
I thought the Republican Party was going to crumble first. Instead it is the Democratic Party that's falling apart, who thought genocide was a winning strategy?
Right? I've been told for decades that the GOP's descent into fascism was the "Screams of a dying party that'll stop soon enough"... but the Democrats apparently ARE the champions of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
I guess Biden is the ship and the rest of the party is going down with him.
Yeah, the fact that college kids getting beaten up by cops over Palestinian genocide didn't prompt this crisis of confidence in Biden but the donor class getting upset makes it dominate the airwaves is really annoying, but not at all surprising.
At the end of the day, whoever has the best chance of beating Trump should be our nominee whether it's Biden or somebody else
This was really well said and echoes my feelings exactly
Who accepts loss months before the election when the other guy is already saying they won't accept loss months after the election?
The average voter doesn't particularly care about Palestine. You don't have to like it but it's true. But when tens of millions of people watch Biden self destruct live on stage, that's a big deal (to both elites and everyday peoole).
Yeah bruh, we’re totally fucked. Brandon could have saved us by fucking off voluntarily. But no, he’s just another cunt politician with a god complex.
Thanks for the fascist hellscape, Brandon. So glad you did your goodest.
Downvote away and continue wishing for the best instead of accepting what is obvious.
AoC self admitted she could be wrong and she is. She doesn't keep her finger on the pulse the same we do, she's off building solar panels in Puerto Rico. I like AoC, she's so far off the mark it'll fuck us over.
She argues that changing candidates this late could complicate the Ohio vote and lead to supreme court deciding the election.
What 'pulse' does that even matter about?
Also why do you write 'AoC' like that? Her name isn't Alexandria of Cortes
It's happened what, once? Twice? A meteor could hit the building both candidates debate at but it's as unlikely.
Knowing what's happening is a pretty important part of being a politian. Not knowing what's being said during a conversation is a pretty good way to say something stupid.
Autocorrect for a gaming acronym I use frequently and the laziness to not go back and correct it every time. Though there's something to be said about feeling it nessesary to use it as a point of attack even though it's unrelated.
Also, looks like Biden is dropping out. Sucks to suck.
Yeah, Biden dropped out. Fuck me sideways.
I didn't mean to attack you about the spelling, just curious since you did it more than once. and it made me think of Attack on Titan acronym, a funny juxtaposition
It seemed like a stronger and stronger possibility because allies within the party were urging it, not just the general public. I'm sincerely surprised he didn't just grit his teeth and push forward until it was way too late. We'll see what happens now I guess.
And no worries, been really into Ashes of Creation and it's a mouthful. To be fair I wouldn't trust Ashes of Creation on being up to date politically either.
You'll also lose primary voters. I voted in the primaries, there were multiple candidates, Biden lost the primary in American Samoa. If you throw away my primary vote by swapping in another anointed candidate, why would I ever vote in your primaries again? What is even the point? It's like the DNC learned nothing from the debacle of them trying to squeeze Bernie out of the race (thank you Wikileaks for revealing their corrupt BS and causing reforms to the primary process). They lost a lot of voters doing that.
I hate the RNC, but if they are the only party that will respect my primary vote, they are the primary I will vote in next election. Dems switching primaries like this may produce a more moderate republican candidate, which is bad news for dems, since they won't just be able to run on "The RNC is run by crazy christian fascists who want to take all your rights away".
"Hello, fellow Democrats"
The way ili see it is., the “far left” crowd are demanding sparkling water and refuse to drink from the tap with everyone else-
And not only this, but they intend to destroy the tap so no one else can drink from it because it doesn’t provide what they feel they are entitled to. Regardless of what everyone else feels or wants.
And the irony is- they cry and whine about how America should be a socialist system, but feel that their needs should be met by the government, and don’t care about what everyone wants as a whole.
And what they don’t understand is, whoever ends up in the White House- will be playing the same fucking game Biden did. Because that’s how politics work. It’s negotiation and co promise.
But they’d rather watch America burn than even try to accept this fundamental truth.
It's obvious you haven't taken even a moment to try to understand what the "far left" wants...
And as I’ve said before- I’m not talking about the legit FAR LEFT. I’ve no problem with them. I’m taking about the “far left.” By that I mean MAGA trolls that are here in bad faith to urge people not to vote I. Support of Trump.
There’s a HUGE difference.
Dudes mixed up his left and right..
People calling themselves left while being right isn’t mixing things up. It’s just knowing better.
it's being a moron.
Yep. Being right while calling yourself left isn’t very smart, I’d agree- but that’s where we are now.
How does this rant in any way relate to this story? I'm getting really big "old man yells at cloud" vibes here.
How does it relate? How doesn’t it?
We did it! You are welcome America!
This is the most I have ever felt that we as demographic have been heard and acknowledged. Strategically placing ourselves in swing states was a smart long term strategy :D The bananas have brought you O' monkey!
This is the first time I've ever started disagreed with AOC on something. If we stick with Biden we're definitely handing the White House to Trumplethinskin. As Democrats we suck at picking candidates.
Idgaf if they nominate Jimmy Carter, I'm voting against the Republican
I would vote for Jimmy Carter again in a heartbeat, that man had principles.
The issue is voters don't pick the candidates, the DNC does. Then the party will rally behind the hand picked candidate and the public follows behind
Yes you are correct. I was talking to the idea that if we have a brokered convention we still suck at picking candidates most of the time.
You are correct that this is different because the incumbent gets a free pass and we didn't have a real primary between equal candidates.
Same. It's the most out-of-step I've ever been with her and Bernie, a bit jarring for me. I mean, I get it, it's free political capital for progressives to voice support here. But still, as soon as the party started having this conversation through the media, Biden's candidacy became unviable.
Could be that they are doing this to keep them from dumping Harris too, which might be the necessary compromise for the party in the end.
Yeah, his campaign has been dead since a senator went public in opposition. You don't put in the visible performance he did at the debate, then publicly lose major Democrats, and somehow turn around an already losing campaign. I really don't get anyone who thinks there's some path for Biden to win. He didn't need to lose the faith of a majority of the party to be unviable (which he now has), losing any significant segment was enough to be crippling.
There's no way to put the genie back in the bottle and people trying to act like it just seem out of touch with reality. Whatever risks you think a new candidate has, at least there's a chance.