I just realized that the shitty software on the other side of the divide is casting null to ”null", which absolutely explains that issue. What a cluster
Yeah, I love to rag on languages with weak typing, because of the potential for a bug, but seeing it play out in reality, directly with user input, that's certainly something else.
shudders in NodeJS
He is being too nice. He needs to get a lawyer and sue that shitty company for harassment and whatever else.
ETA: The US isn't overly litigious. We are under litigious if anything.
Large corporations are overly litigious. Individuals can't afford to be litigious enough.
they should have just used rust smh
Yeah, this is his daughter
Ca\r\rie
Hey "java.lang.NullPointerException" can I borrow your pen?
asking questions like this is how i found out that one of the allowed characters in names in my country is ÿ, which is fine in Latin-1 but in 7-bit ASCII is DEL.
This sounds like it would create a whole list of fun and irritating edge conditions for some poor bugger to debug. Love it.
If someone else has to debug the problems caused by a parent naming their child with a special character, does that make the parent the bugger? 🤔
I can tell you that buggering is not how you become a parent.
How about featuring?
that's amazing! Aren't codecs fun
I have an apostrophe and it's super annoying as some companies see it as a SQL injection hack and sanitize it.
So I've received ID with Mc%20dole or they add a space in it. Or I'll get a work email with an apostrophe but I cant use it anywhere because sites have it disabled. And I've missed my flight because I changed my ticket once to add the apostrophe and the system just broke at the gate.
Worse yet many flight companies have "you will not be able to board if your ID doesn't exactly reflect your details" but their form doesn't allow it. Even most forms for card payments don't allow it even though it's the name on my card.
%20 is encoded space if I remember right, so even then they were already incorrect
It sounds like maybe they sanitized the apostrophe to a space and then encoded it
I have an apostrophe and it’s super annoying as some companies see it as a SQL injection hack and sanitize it.
My surname contains a character that's only present in the Polish alphabet. Writing my full name as is broke lots of systems, encoding, printed paperwork and even British naturalisation application on Home Office website. My surname was part of my username back at uni, and everytime I tried to login on Windows, it would crash underlying LDAP server, logging everyone in the classroom out and forcing ICT to restart the server.
you will not be able to board if your ID doesn't exactly reflect your details"
Do they care about an apostrophe though? I can see any punctuation being a problem for systems.
I had to convince people to let me on board a plane because my name contain a swedish letter (å). Their computer system translated it into "aa", which then didn't match my passport.
That one I can actually see, having an extra letter that doesn't match. Dropped punctuation or symbols (whatever the flair is called) though personally I wouldn't care.
That's the wrong way of looking at an å.
It's not just an a with decoration. It actually has different pronunciation and is typically replaced with aa if no å is available. (I'm neither Swedish nor Norwegian, so not 100% sure, but it's what happened to Erling Haaland).
Similarly, you would replace a German ä with ae.
So if my name was Bäcker, it would be wrong to spell it Backer on a ticket. Baecker would be the way.
Yes I'm aware it's not an a with decoration jfc. I'm saying for computer entries that garble things, I wouldn't care about matching it up so perfectly (with dropped whatever those things are called) as to not allow someone to board a plane.
Your name is transliterated in your passport? That's on the Swedish authorities then.
No, my passport has my real name of course, with "å". In the airport system and on the boarding pass my name was spelled with "aa".
I'm amazed that none of your family members have run into the same problem. If I were you I would compare passports with my family.
I have an apostrophe
Scottish/Irish?
some companies see it as a SQL injection hack and sanitize it.
Which kind of apostrophe?
A straight apostrophe, fine - that can and does get used in valid SQL injection attacks. I would be disgusted at any input form that didn’t sanitize that.
But a curly apostrophe? Nothing should be filtering a curly apostrophe, as it has no function or use within SQL. So if you learn how to bring that up in alt codes (Windows, specifically), Key combos (Mac) or dead keys (Linux), as well as direct Unicode codes for most any Win/Mac/*Nix platform, you should be golden.
Unless the developer of that input form was a complete moron and made extra-tight validation.
Plus, knowing the inputs for a lot of extended UTF-8 characters not found on a normal keyboard is also a wee bit of a typing superpower.
Spent lots of effort to get names for my kids that avoid this. Swedish/French. It's harder than it sounds.
... why are you putting an apostrophe in McDole? The O-apostrophe in Irish names is an anglicisation of Ó, eg. Ó Briain becomes O'Brien. Mac Dól would become MacDole/McDole.
Yeah fuck this guy for spelling his name the way it was given to him what an asshole
Probably some bureaucrat decades ago making an incorrect assumption that passed down through generations. Happened to my family. No Irish roots whatsoever, yet somehow we ended up with the annoying form-breaking apostrophe in our 'legal' name just because it begins with the letter 'o'.
"Oscar??? Surely, you're mistaken. I hereby decree your name to be O'Scar!"
~Arsehole circa 1937
Yep also happened to my family. There is a y in my family name, but that’s very uncommon in the Netherlands, my last name is of French origin. So some bureaucrat changed it to a Dutch y which is an ij and there was no time to correct it since my grandparents had to catch the boat to flee the former Dutch colony. Now my last name is constantly pronounced wrong. I’m probably going to change it in the future but in the Netherlands you are not allowed to change your name except for a few exceptions. And applying for a name change cost a lot of money and you won’t get it back if they reject it. So I probably have to get a lawyer to do it.
Yeah, I've considered a name change myself. Decided not to bother as it would mean every time I need to prove my identity to a government organisation I'd need to provide additional change of name documentation.
Government is hard enough to deal with as it is without adding an extra thing that needs to be assessed.
Hey Militant Left, just because every question directed at you assumes you are an asshole, doesn't mean the same applies to questions to other people
Mc'Dole is what they said, not McDo'le.
That's easy, just call it Jhon\nDoe
John\0Doe will fuck with all C (and C based derivatives) software that touches it.
Nah, it will end up simply as "John" in the database. You need "John%sDoe" to crash C software with unsafe printf() calls, and even then it's better to use several "%s"
C and C derivatives will be fine unless they're fucking up encoding.
Which rarely, if ever, happens. Especially with US software.
With an address in 's-Hertogenbosch to help people who are lazy about escaping.
There are a frightening number of systems that don't allow "-", which isn't even an edge case. A lot of people - mostly women - hyphenate their last names on marriage, rather than throw their old name away. My wife did. She legally changed her name when she came of age, and when we met and married years later she said, "I paid for money for my name; I'm not letting it go." (Note: I wasn't pressuring her to take my name.) So she hyphenated it, and has come to regret the decision. She says she should have switched, or not, but the hyphen causes problems everywhere. It's not a legal character in a lot of systems, including some government systems.
It boggles my mind how so many websites and platforms incorrectly say my e-mail address is 'invalid' because it has an apostrophe in it.
No. It is NOT invalid. I have been receiving e-mails for years. You just have a shitty developer.
worst thing is, the regex to check email has been available for decades and it's fine with apostrophies
Well, and remember: If in doubt, send them an e-mail. You probably want to do that anyways to ensure they have access to that mailbox.
You can try to use a regex as a basic sanity check, so they've not accidentally typed a completely different info into there, but the e-mail standard allows so many wild mail addresses, that your basic sanity check might as well be whether they've typed an @ into there.
The regexes are written to comply with RFC 5332 and 6854
They are well defined and you can absolutely definitively check whether an address is allowable or not.
Yeah, I'm just saying that the benefit of using such a regex isn't massive (unless you're building a service which can't send a mail).
a@b is a syntactically correct e-mail address. Most combinations of letters, an @-symbol and more letters will be syntactically correct, which is what most typos will look like. The regex will only catch fringe cases, such as a user accidentally hitting the spacebar.
And then, personally, I don't feel like it's worth pulling in one of those massive regexes (+ possibly a regex library) for most use-cases.
There are many regexes that validate email, and they usually aren't compliant with the RFC, there are some details in the very old answer on SO. So, better not validate and just send a confirmation, than restrict and lock people out, imo
The article you just mentioned in the comments includes both a completely reasonable and viable regex and binary and library alternatives that are in most languages.
Reasonable and viable ≠ RFC compliant
This quote summarises my views:
There is some danger that common usage and widespread sloppy coding will establish a de facto standard for e-mail addresses that is more restrictive than the recorded formal standard.
Yes! Hyphens and "+" are also legal, and while most will accept a dash, many don't allow '+'. But it's explicitly allowed in the spec!
Ugh and that happens a lot if your email domain has an even slightly unusual TLD too.
And you'd think a simple solution is just leave out the hyphen when you put you name in, but that can also lead to problems when the system is looking for a 100% perfect match.
And good luck if they need to scan the barcode on your ID.
Then the first part is interpreted (in the US, anyway) as a middle name, not as part of the last name. I did run into a recently married woman who did that: dropped her middle name, moved her last to the middle, and used her spouse's last name.
More commonly, places that don't take hyphens tend to just run the two names together: Axel-Smith becomes AxelSmith.
Programmers can be really dumb.
As someone who's mexican I encounter that more than one would think since I have 2 last names and it gets weird sometimes since I also have a middle name.
God, the French. My friend has two first names, two middle, and thankfully only one surname.
Something that could happen in Mexico for a name is Juan Maria as a first, Guillermo David as a middle and Gonzales De Mercado as a last name. Technically 7 words and totally a thing but not common at all, anymore at least.
My mom didn't hyphenate, but she does include her maiden name when writing her full name, after her middle name. It never even occurred to me that that's uncommon.
So she writes 4 names? Does she put her maiden and married names both in the "surname" field? Or middle and maiden together in the "middle name" field?
I have come across a shockingly large amount of people who not only have a hyphenated last name but also have a hypenated first name! Dealing with every new computer system is like a new adventure
You'd think by now Jean-Luc Picard would be a well known example and systems are able to deal with it.
There are also fringe externalities from this too. I have my mom's last name for my middle name and my dad's for my last name. But back in the 90s, my state would erroneously handle that scenario as having no middle name and both names hyphenated for a last name. I didn't find this out until I turned 18 and tried to get a retail job and they wouldn't hire me until it got fixed.
First I had to go to the Dept of Health and get a new birth certificate, then I had to do the same at the social security administration for a new social security card. Hours and hours over multiple days just so I could earn minimum wage folding and selling used clothing. Ironically, the name mixup never was a problem when I did taxes previously.
Not legal in Canada. Your legal name must use Latin characters only. This is a sore point for indigenous people.
Hello my name is JohnDoe. My name only contains Latin characters, no spaces allowed.
Ah, but you see, "John" and "Doe" are two names - first and last - and when you say "My name is", you're really listing out your names, with spaces inbetween!
But then there's hyphenated names, and I have no idea how those are treated.
"John Doe" vs ["John", "Doe"] vs {"firstName":"John", "lastName":"Doe"}
console.log(Object.values(name).join("\n"));
Could be..."Jondo" like, a mononym hahaha.
The Romans also had spaces in between words
But did they have lowercase?
EDIT: Hello my name is JOHN DOE. Only latin characters allowed
But did they have lowercase english language?
Salve! John Doe nomen meum est.
Only latin characters allowed
(That's all the latin I remember from school back then)
I was under the impression that that was actually a medieval invention
What was used to delineate words before the space character, then?
Nothing but understanding of words and sentences. It was kind of a whole thing. The space character was revolutionary to increasing the spread of literacy. Relevant
Blank spaces arent characters by definition as they're the space that allows the letters to exist
Deep. Is Python a form of Jazz?
Yes, and YAML is a war crime.
No, they didn't even use the space to separate words. Take a look at any Roman inscription in Italy, there are no spaces between the words (just like there are no silent pauses between spoken words).
boustrophedon must make a comeback
Which is both entirely understandable, and also tragic because Canada's indigenous written characters are so cool. :D
But also, it's gotta be neat having a name among your people, that "the state" has nothing to do with...
Once I was tasked with doing QA testing for an app which was planned to initially go live in the states of Georgia and Tenessee. One of the required fields was the user's legal name. I therefore looked up the laws on baby names in those two states.
Georgia has simple rules where a child's forename must be a sequence of the 26 regular Latin letters.
Tenessee seemed to only require that a child's name was writable under some writing system, which would imply any unicode code point is permissible.
At the time, I logged a bug that a hypothetical user born in Tenessee with a name consisting of a single emoji couldn't enter their legal name. I reckon it would also be legal to call a Tenessee baby 'John
'.
Sounds like you did a thorough job as a QA tester. As a software engineer, I love to see it.
By the time the app was due to go live, we'd only reported bugs with the signup and login flows. This was misinterpreted as there only being issues with the signup and login flows, and the app launched on time. In reality, it was impossible to get past the login screen.
And then let me guess... Of course the QA testers get the blame, when in reality it's either management or marketing that wanted to pushe the app out.
Blaming us would be too close to root-cause analysis for them even to consider. We weren't normally QA testers, but they'd left it until too late to hire internal QA, so roped in the developers (us) from a SaaS vendor their app replied on as emergency QA.
im sure the devs tasked at fixing that bug loved u ;-)
Is it missing an apostrophe and a dash? Or they registered the wrong name?
Anyway, the use of quotes seem to have backfired. I blame Excel.
Apparently they didn't include the single quote at the beginning because they wanted to hint at the exploit without actually triggering it.
(and Lemmy seems to combine two dashes into one)
Sibling of Bobby Drop Tables
Y'all need to learn how to sanitize your inputs!
No, cause "John\nDoe" messes up my regex. Sorry, out of the question. I'm not good with regex.
no one is "good" with regex.
Then who's coming up with all the bits that I copy/paste off the internet? The regex dragon?
From what I've seen, it's Cthulhu.
There was only one, we're all still copying from him or her.
Can I kill someone who wants to do this? How do I legally get away with it?
Plead permanent sanity. If I was the judge I would let you go.
Plead permanent sanity.
temporary sanity is the best I can manage these days.
Thanks bro
I gotchu
Of myself of the now dead purpetrator?
Not legal in Sweden. Our "IRS" must also accept the name and deem it legal.
I for one like this. As it stops some very stupid people to name their children some very stupid names. Such as "Adolf Hitler".
And yes. Someone did try to name their child this and they were appropriately stoped from doing it.
If only Sweden invaded the rest of the world instead of Russia... *le sigh*
Eh, if they went imperial they would be subject to imperial needs leading to all the usual imperial problems.
What, inconsistent units? /s
Funny enough. Sweden already went through that problem. We call it "Age of Greatness". (Stormaktstiden)
Basically. Sweden got too big too fast, couldn't maintain an army large enough to secure everything. If i remember correctly, we couldn't produce enough food, and we lost a bunch of territory.
I accept our new Scandinavian overlords. But I would rather have it be Finland.
Akchtually, Finland is not a Scandinavian country properly.
Fuck that, we think it is in the US. And we're the only people who matter on the internet.
Should have went with Adolf Olivernipples
ugh literally 1984
If elected president my first order of business will be to make all birth certificates fully unicode compatible.
Probably have to escape it so it will work properly: John\/nDoe
\n already is an escape sequence, consisting of \, the escape character, and n, the code that is responsible for the new line. Together they form an escape sequence.
This person unicodes
Sure, but if you don't escape the \ then you likely won't even be able to get the name into the first system. You need the name to contain \n so that it gets passed correctly to other systems, otherwise his name may wind up just being "John" .
I want the char 8 that makes a beep.
"John $(tput bel) Doe"
Frontend devs hates this guy.
NaN,
Not a Number, and now Not a Name
NaN: „Hey Nanna, can you call the nanny?“
Ask Robert'); DROP TABLE Students; 's mum how it went.
Na, names are about pronunciation (how you call someone). Written letters are an approximation of that. You can't pronounce a newline, so there's that.
John
(long pause)
Doe
Just pronounce \n as a glottal stop.
Hawai
i
But differently spelled names are legally distinct.
i think they mean that pronounciation matters for determing validity, not for the actual record or distinguishing between names
But that doesn't really address the original question, does it? You don't have to pronounce all the letters in a name, so the fact that you can't pronounce a newline isn't sufficient to demonstrate that it can't be part of a name.
How do you pronounce the hyphen in double barrelled names?
The hyphen can provide indicators on how to parse the letters on either side. "Pen-Island" would be pronounced differently from "Penisland."
There's a guy I follow on the internet called "penusbmic", and he claims it's supposed to mean "Pen, USB, Mic".
Whatever you say, Penus B. Mic.
But something has to be written on the birth certificate and social security card, and that's what everything else will expect you to use. I think just due to technical limitations (e.g. of the printer/template for those things) it wouldn't be allowed, but I dunno about legally
This sounds like the start of another sovcit "loophole"
why settle for \n when you can go for the stylish carriage return
so John\r Doe ? depending on the software, when it gets printed, the carriage return will moves the cursor to the start of the line without moving a line down, becoming \x20Doe.
This is the ideal rendition, I would say. On a related note, I just love it when there are backspaces in my filenames
¿Porqué no los dos? A nice \r\n, Windows style.
Gotta band it Windows tho, it just feels right, I want to enjoy my fake typewriter
A line break is a non-printable character. So it would only work in the scope of electronic storage. The minute it hits other media, the line break character is subject to how that media handles it’s presence, and then it is lost permanently from that step forward.
Plus, many input forms make use of validation that will just trim anything that isn’t a character or number, removing the line break character.
A line break doesnt have to be electronic only. You just... start a new line on the paper.
If it were somehow legally allowed, the sanitization would be incorrect.
As someone with a very mildly unusual name, I can tell you that it doesn't matter whether a system could or could not meaningfully represent the name. Often the people or systems just refuse to acknowledge any deviation from what's expected. Sometimes databases are written to enforce arbitrary grammatical rules that make my name impossible to write, or the people using the systems will just "correct" the "error" without telling me. I don't mind that much but our normative systems just love to homogenise us.
Because sadly we live in a society, and normal names are required for the functioning of society.
No they're not. They're required for us to be catalogued and managed by a state, to our detriment and the enrichment of the ruling class.
"Normality" is a fucking scam that keeps your imagination in check, so you never look outside your assigned box and realise you don't have to belong to anyone.
You have no idea how much genocidal violence has been done to condition our society to accept a dystopic phrase like "normal names are required for the functioning of society".
Your mind has been caged.
You're right.
I just want to say that my last name is three syllables and spelled exactly how it sounds. In fact it's two common english words stuck together. It was Americanized/Anglicized from Germany.
Three syllables will break brains on people here. I state it clearly. They're like haha what?
For the last 9 years I've just been handing over my work ID badge so they can type it.
I probably said it too dramatically, the kinds of people that need to hear it will just knee-jerk dismiss me, but seriously think about the phrase "normal names are required for the functioning of society". What a wild-ass thing to say. Required why? Is society really that fragile? Sounds like maybe it should be replaced by something that can handle the occasional mildly spicy letter. Mine isn't even that spicy, it's like whole-egg-mayo levels of spice.
It's hard to believe but it's just a couple people being shitty. Many probably agree sadly, but damn, get with it people !
I understand all the crashes database, Bobby Tables arguments. But shit, just update your system to accept Unicode and we'll live happily ever after. At least my child 🍆💦ヾ(⌐■_■)ノ♪ will be finally recognized. 🤙
That's a beautiful name.
It's time to log off and get a vasectomy
What about an open bracket? (
)
Found Satan
( it will be fine with enough upvotes
Teehee )
Downvoting in order to bring it below @whynot's comment.
( 😀
))<>((
It's impossible to represent that on paper. It could be misrepresented as a specific number of spaces. Depending on the position on the paper, it may also be hard to tell if the carriage return comes with the line feed. Unless you want the document to be in ASCII or EBCDIC hex, it's like writing an ambiguous math problem where the answer is different depending on how you were taught about the order of operations. Don't do this to your kid, Abcde.
Always sanitize your Data inputs.
Am I allowed to include sql command words such as drop table in my child's name?
Anyone remember when Chrome had that issue with validating nested URL-encoded characters? Anyone for John%%80%80 Doe?
Unix or dos format?
Anyway, you probably need to put a backslash before it to indicate line continuation.
But wouldn't it be better to use something more traditional, such as <br>?
HTML is more traditional than \n?
True, poor choice of phrase.
But I was thnking of something like
#define my_macro does not fit\
on one line
I'm not american and I'm glad I'm not but intended if someone could enter a bunch of zero width spaces
I really can't even begin to properly explain this because it's just so many layers of intuition. No, you absolutely cannot have a line break in your name. That's not a letter. That said, I'm fully prepared for someone to give me an example of some writing system that uses line breaks for unique purposes apart from spaces.
Chaotic neutral response: A line break is just white space.
Most languages use white spaces
its not just a white space.
Sometimes it entails a white space, when theres still space on that line.
Sometimes it does not.
apart from spaces
😎🤙
Good luck with that.
Most computer nayetems will trim the crap out of that name, the white spaces like space, tab, \r and \n will be gone by the time it's in the database
Be funny as fuck if Canada started extradition procedures when he landed
"We call her Carrie, because of the carriage return."
You can also try to give the child NULL as middle name for additional fun.
someone tried that with their license plate, it turned out well: https://www.wired.com/story/null-license-plate-landed-one-hacker-ticket-hell/
edit: archive link
I just realized that the shitty software on the other side of the divide is casting
nullto ”null", which absolutely explains that issue. What a clusterYeah, I love to rag on languages with weak typing, because of the potential for a bug, but seeing it play out in reality, directly with user input, that's certainly something else.
shudders in NodeJS
He is being too nice. He needs to get a lawyer and sue that shitty company for harassment and whatever else.
ETA: The US isn't overly litigious. We are under litigious if anything.
Large corporations are overly litigious. Individuals can't afford to be litigious enough.
they should have just used rust smh
Yeah, this is his daughter
Hey "java.lang.NullPointerException" can I borrow your pen?
asking questions like this is how i found out that one of the allowed characters in names in my country is ÿ, which is fine in Latin-1 but in 7-bit ASCII is
DEL.This sounds like it would create a whole list of fun and irritating edge conditions for some poor bugger to debug. Love it.
If someone else has to debug the problems caused by a parent naming their child with a special character, does that make the parent the bugger? 🤔
I can tell you that buggering is not how you become a parent.
How about featuring?
that's amazing! Aren't codecs fun
I have an apostrophe and it's super annoying as some companies see it as a SQL injection hack and sanitize it.
So I've received ID with Mc%20dole or they add a space in it. Or I'll get a work email with an apostrophe but I cant use it anywhere because sites have it disabled. And I've missed my flight because I changed my ticket once to add the apostrophe and the system just broke at the gate.
Worse yet many flight companies have "you will not be able to board if your ID doesn't exactly reflect your details" but their form doesn't allow it. Even most forms for card payments don't allow it even though it's the name on my card.
%20 is encoded space if I remember right, so even then they were already incorrect
It sounds like maybe they sanitized the apostrophe to a space and then encoded it
Always worth posting this classic.
There's also the version with examples if you want to know exactly what and why it breaks.
And the git that collects all of these in one place, if you want to really nerd out.
Also relevant: https://www.wired.com/2015/11/null/
This is going to be bobby tables isn't it?
Edit: It wasn't?!
Lol I went through the exact same process.
My surname contains a character that's only present in the Polish alphabet. Writing my full name as is broke lots of systems, encoding, printed paperwork and even British naturalisation application on Home Office website. My surname was part of my username back at uni, and everytime I tried to login on Windows, it would crash underlying LDAP server, logging everyone in the classroom out and forcing ICT to restart the server.
Do they care about an apostrophe though? I can see any punctuation being a problem for systems.
I had to convince people to let me on board a plane because my name contain a swedish letter (å). Their computer system translated it into "aa", which then didn't match my passport.
That one I can actually see, having an extra letter that doesn't match. Dropped punctuation or symbols (whatever the flair is called) though personally I wouldn't care.
That's the wrong way of looking at an å.
It's not just an a with decoration. It actually has different pronunciation and is typically replaced with aa if no å is available. (I'm neither Swedish nor Norwegian, so not 100% sure, but it's what happened to Erling Haaland).
Similarly, you would replace a German ä with ae. So if my name was Bäcker, it would be wrong to spell it Backer on a ticket. Baecker would be the way.
Yes I'm aware it's not an a with decoration jfc. I'm saying for computer entries that garble things, I wouldn't care about matching it up so perfectly (with dropped whatever those things are called) as to not allow someone to board a plane.
Your name is transliterated in your passport? That's on the Swedish authorities then.
No, my passport has my real name of course, with "å". In the airport system and on the boarding pass my name was spelled with "aa".
I'm amazed that none of your family members have run into the same problem. If I were you I would compare passports with my family.
Scottish/Irish?
Which kind of apostrophe?
A straight apostrophe, fine - that can and does get used in valid SQL injection attacks. I would be disgusted at any input form that didn’t sanitize that.
But a curly apostrophe? Nothing should be filtering a curly apostrophe, as it has no function or use within SQL. So if you learn how to bring that up in alt codes (Windows, specifically), Key combos (Mac) or dead keys (Linux), as well as direct Unicode codes for most any Win/Mac/*Nix platform, you should be golden.
Unless the developer of that input form was a complete moron and made extra-tight validation.
Plus, knowing the inputs for a lot of extended UTF-8 characters not found on a normal keyboard is also a wee bit of a typing superpower.
Spent lots of effort to get names for my kids that avoid this. Swedish/French. It's harder than it sounds.
... why are you putting an apostrophe in McDole? The O-apostrophe in Irish names is an anglicisation of Ó, eg. Ó Briain becomes O'Brien. Mac Dól would become MacDole/McDole.
Yeah fuck this guy for spelling his name the way it was given to him what an asshole
Probably some bureaucrat decades ago making an incorrect assumption that passed down through generations. Happened to my family. No Irish roots whatsoever, yet somehow we ended up with the annoying form-breaking apostrophe in our 'legal' name just because it begins with the letter 'o'.
"Oscar??? Surely, you're mistaken. I hereby decree your name to be O'Scar!" ~Arsehole circa 1937
Yep also happened to my family. There is a y in my family name, but that’s very uncommon in the Netherlands, my last name is of French origin. So some bureaucrat changed it to a Dutch y which is an ij and there was no time to correct it since my grandparents had to catch the boat to flee the former Dutch colony. Now my last name is constantly pronounced wrong. I’m probably going to change it in the future but in the Netherlands you are not allowed to change your name except for a few exceptions. And applying for a name change cost a lot of money and you won’t get it back if they reject it. So I probably have to get a lawyer to do it.
Yeah, I've considered a name change myself. Decided not to bother as it would mean every time I need to prove my identity to a government organisation I'd need to provide additional change of name documentation.
Government is hard enough to deal with as it is without adding an extra thing that needs to be assessed.
Hey Militant Left, just because every question directed at you assumes you are an asshole, doesn't mean the same applies to questions to other people
Mc'Dole is what they said, not McDo'le.
That's easy, just call it Jhon\nDoe
John\0Doe will fuck with all C (and C based derivatives) software that touches it.
Nah, it will end up simply as "John" in the database. You need "John%sDoe" to crash C software with unsafe printf() calls, and even then it's better to use several "%s"
C and C derivatives will be fine unless they're fucking up encoding.
Which rarely, if ever, happens. Especially with US software.
With an address in 's-Hertogenbosch to help people who are lazy about escaping.
There are a frightening number of systems that don't allow "-", which isn't even an edge case. A lot of people - mostly women - hyphenate their last names on marriage, rather than throw their old name away. My wife did. She legally changed her name when she came of age, and when we met and married years later she said, "I paid for money for my name; I'm not letting it go." (Note: I wasn't pressuring her to take my name.) So she hyphenated it, and has come to regret the decision. She says she should have switched, or not, but the hyphen causes problems everywhere. It's not a legal character in a lot of systems, including some government systems.
It boggles my mind how so many websites and platforms incorrectly say my e-mail address is 'invalid' because it has an apostrophe in it.
No. It is NOT invalid. I have been receiving e-mails for years. You just have a shitty developer.
worst thing is, the regex to check email has been available for decades and it's fine with apostrophies
Well, and remember: If in doubt, send them an e-mail. You probably want to do that anyways to ensure they have access to that mailbox.
You can try to use a regex as a basic sanity check, so they've not accidentally typed a completely different info into there, but the e-mail standard allows so many wild mail addresses, that your basic sanity check might as well be whether they've typed an
@into there.The regexes are written to comply with RFC 5332 and 6854
They are well defined and you can absolutely definitively check whether an address is allowable or not.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5322
Yeah, I'm just saying that the benefit of using such a regex isn't massive (unless you're building a service which can't send a mail).
a@bis a syntactically correct e-mail address. Most combinations of letters, an @-symbol and more letters will be syntactically correct, which is what most typos will look like. The regex will only catch fringe cases, such as a user accidentally hitting the spacebar.And then, personally, I don't feel like it's worth pulling in one of those massive regexes (+ possibly a regex library) for most use-cases.
There are many regexes that validate email, and they usually aren't compliant with the RFC, there are some details in the very old answer on SO. So, better not validate and just send a confirmation, than restrict and lock people out, imo
The article you just mentioned in the comments includes both a completely reasonable and viable regex and binary and library alternatives that are in most languages.
Reasonable and viable ≠ RFC compliant
This quote summarises my views:
Yes! Hyphens and "+" are also legal, and while most will accept a dash, many don't allow '+'. But it's explicitly allowed in the spec!
Ugh and that happens a lot if your email domain has an even slightly unusual TLD too.
And you'd think a simple solution is just leave out the hyphen when you put you name in, but that can also lead to problems when the system is looking for a 100% perfect match.
And good luck if they need to scan the barcode on your ID.
Then the first part is interpreted (in the US, anyway) as a middle name, not as part of the last name. I did run into a recently married woman who did that: dropped her middle name, moved her last to the middle, and used her spouse's last name.
More commonly, places that don't take hyphens tend to just run the two names together: Axel-Smith becomes AxelSmith.
Programmers can be really dumb.
As someone who's mexican I encounter that more than one would think since I have 2 last names and it gets weird sometimes since I also have a middle name.
God, the French. My friend has two first names, two middle, and thankfully only one surname.
Something that could happen in Mexico for a name is Juan Maria as a first, Guillermo David as a middle and Gonzales De Mercado as a last name. Technically 7 words and totally a thing but not common at all, anymore at least.
My mom didn't hyphenate, but she does include her maiden name when writing her full name, after her middle name. It never even occurred to me that that's uncommon.
So she writes 4 names? Does she put her maiden and married names both in the "surname" field? Or middle and maiden together in the "middle name" field?
I have come across a shockingly large amount of people who not only have a hyphenated last name but also have a hypenated first name! Dealing with every new computer system is like a new adventure
You'd think by now Jean-Luc Picard would be a well known example and systems are able to deal with it.
There are also fringe externalities from this too. I have my mom's last name for my middle name and my dad's for my last name. But back in the 90s, my state would erroneously handle that scenario as having no middle name and both names hyphenated for a last name. I didn't find this out until I turned 18 and tried to get a retail job and they wouldn't hire me until it got fixed.
First I had to go to the Dept of Health and get a new birth certificate, then I had to do the same at the social security administration for a new social security card. Hours and hours over multiple days just so I could earn minimum wage folding and selling used clothing. Ironically, the name mixup never was a problem when I did taxes previously.
Not legal in Canada. Your legal name must use Latin characters only. This is a sore point for indigenous people.
Hello my name is JohnDoe. My name only contains Latin characters, no spaces allowed.
Ah, but you see, "John" and "Doe" are two names - first and last - and when you say "My name is", you're really listing out your names, with spaces inbetween!
But then there's hyphenated names, and I have no idea how those are treated.
"John Doe"vs["John", "Doe"]vs{"firstName":"John", "lastName":"Doe"}Could be..."Jondo" like, a mononym hahaha.
The Romans also had spaces in between words
But did they have lowercase?
EDIT: Hello my name is JOHN DOE. Only latin characters allowed
But did they have
lowercaseenglish language?Salve! John Doe nomen meum est.
Only latin
charactersallowed(That's all the latin I remember from school back then)
I was under the impression that that was actually a medieval invention
This comment made me learn. Thank you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriptio_continua
What was used to delineate words before the space character, then?
Nothing but understanding of words and sentences. It was kind of a whole thing. The space character was revolutionary to increasing the spread of literacy. Relevant
Or for those that just want to read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriptio_continua
Did the Romans not use line breaks?
Blank spaces arent characters by definition as they're the space that allows the letters to exist
Deep. Is Python a form of Jazz?
Yes, and YAML is a war crime.
No, they didn't even use the space to separate words. Take a look at any Roman inscription in Italy, there are no spaces between the words (just like there are no silent pauses between spoken words).
boustrophedon must make a comeback
Which is both entirely understandable, and also tragic because Canada's indigenous written characters are so cool. :D
But also, it's gotta be neat having a name among your people, that "the state" has nothing to do with...
What's the answer? I need the link
Edit: I found it
Once I was tasked with doing QA testing for an app which was planned to initially go live in the states of Georgia and Tenessee. One of the required fields was the user's legal name. I therefore looked up the laws on baby names in those two states.
Georgia has simple rules where a child's forename must be a sequence of the 26 regular Latin letters.
Tenessee seemed to only require that a child's name was writable under some writing system, which would imply any unicode code point is permissible.
At the time, I logged a bug that a hypothetical user born in Tenessee with a name consisting of a single emoji couldn't enter their legal name. I reckon it would also be legal to call a Tenessee baby 'John '.
Sounds like you did a thorough job as a QA tester. As a software engineer, I love to see it.
By the time the app was due to go live, we'd only reported bugs with the signup and login flows. This was misinterpreted as there only being issues with the signup and login flows, and the app launched on time. In reality, it was impossible to get past the login screen.
And then let me guess... Of course the QA testers get the blame, when in reality it's either management or marketing that wanted to pushe the app out.
Blaming us would be too close to root-cause analysis for them even to consider. We weren't normally QA testers, but they'd left it until too late to hire internal QA, so roped in the developers (us) from a SaaS vendor their app replied on as emergency QA.
im sure the devs tasked at fixing that bug loved u ;-)
Just noticed that the listing for ; DROP TABLE "COMPANIES"; -- LTD has been redacted by the government website‽
Is it missing an apostrophe and a dash? Or they registered the wrong name?
Anyway, the use of quotes seem to have backfired. I blame Excel.
Apparently they didn't include the single quote at the beginning because they wanted to hint at the exploit without actually triggering it.
(and Lemmy seems to combine two dashes into one)
Sibling of Bobby Drop Tables
Y'all need to learn how to sanitize your inputs!
No, cause "John\nDoe" messes up my regex. Sorry, out of the question. I'm not good with regex.
no one is "good" with regex.
Then who's coming up with all the bits that I copy/paste off the internet? The regex dragon?
From what I've seen, it's Cthulhu.
There was only one, we're all still copying from him or her.
Can I kill someone who wants to do this? How do I legally get away with it?
Plead permanent sanity. If I was the judge I would let you go.
temporary sanity is the best I can manage these days.
Thanks bro
I gotchu
Of myself of the now dead purpetrator?
Not legal in Sweden. Our "IRS" must also accept the name and deem it legal.
I for one like this. As it stops some very stupid people to name their children some very stupid names. Such as "Adolf Hitler".
And yes. Someone did try to name their child this and they were appropriately stoped from doing it.
If only Sweden invaded the rest of the world instead of Russia... *le sigh*
Eh, if they went imperial they would be subject to imperial needs leading to all the usual imperial problems.
What, inconsistent units? /s
Funny enough. Sweden already went through that problem. We call it "Age of Greatness". (Stormaktstiden)
Basically. Sweden got too big too fast, couldn't maintain an army large enough to secure everything. If i remember correctly, we couldn't produce enough food, and we lost a bunch of territory.
I accept our new Scandinavian overlords. But I would rather have it be Finland.
Akchtually, Finland is not a Scandinavian country properly.
Fuck that, we think it is in the US. And we're the only people who matter on the internet.
Should have went with Adolf Olivernipples
ugh literally 1984
If elected president my first order of business will be to make all birth certificates fully unicode compatible.
How is your son
X Æ A-12?Screw everything about Elon musk
"It sounds like a password"
(ノ-_-)ノ~┻━┻ Miller
Y̴̥͉͕͌̀ǫ̴̗̅̕u̵̱̾̋͐̚ ̷̡͕͈͛̇h̴̳̱̘̆ä̶̼́̕ṽ̷̬͕è̷͓̰̔̌ ̸̪͋m̷͍͎͙̂́̔ͅy̷̰̘̎́̉ͅ ̷̳͒v̷̭̕o̷̢͚̟͇͒̃͐̕t̴̪̙͗̐͆́ë̶̦͗ ̵̗͌̅p̶̰̫͛̑r̷̨͛̏̈́͝e̷͇͍̋̚͜s̸̳͙̒͘î̶̞̍̍̋͜ͅd̴̰̭͚̞͗ě̶̯̖n̶̩̿̕t̶͎͉̂ ̵̦͂̍̀Z̵̧̲̦̹̾͋a̴̒̑ͅl̷͇̘̝̬͒̊͝ǵ̴̹̣͖'̷͂͜o̴̢͔̱̔ò̷̧͛!̷̦̎͑͆͘ ̵̺̼̜̃̑
Howdy friend, I'm ▒⟪♶⳽Ⰶ⮫☲Ⰱ∓✑ⲍ␝ⅼⓑ⊯⛝≋ⱚⵯ⿳➡⸷⋘⎋⛏⍫⣺⨼⛜⧄ⅈ⎥⦶⋣⩥⮯⨏⼧⁹⟤.
Oh, poor thing. It must be terrible to be one of insufferable Elon Musk's progeny
I govenment site I visited recenly made a point of how it accepts emojis in passwords!
C programmers would ask whether a null-terminated name would be acceptable
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/exploits_of_a_mom.png
Little Bobby Tables
Easy,
John\nDoeProbably have to escape it so it will work properly: John\/nDoe
\nalready is an escape sequence, consisting of\, the escape character, andn, the code that is responsible for the new line. Together they form an escape sequence.This person unicodes
Sure, but if you don't escape the \ then you likely won't even be able to get the name into the first system. You need the name to contain \n so that it gets passed correctly to other systems, otherwise his name may wind up just being "John" .
I want the char 8 that makes a beep.
"John $(tput bel) Doe"
Frontend devs hates this guy.
NaN,
Not a Number, and now Not a Name
NaN: „Hey Nanna, can you call the nanny?“
Ask Robert'); DROP TABLE Students; 's mum how it went.
Na, names are about pronunciation (how you call someone). Written letters are an approximation of that. You can't pronounce a newline, so there's that.
John
(long pause)
Doe
Just pronounce \n as a glottal stop.
Hawai
i
But differently spelled names are legally distinct.
i think they mean that pronounciation matters for determing validity, not for the actual record or distinguishing between names
But that doesn't really address the original question, does it? You don't have to pronounce all the letters in a name, so the fact that you can't pronounce a newline isn't sufficient to demonstrate that it can't be part of a name.
How do you pronounce the hyphen in double barrelled names?
The hyphen can provide indicators on how to parse the letters on either side. "Pen-Island" would be pronounced differently from "Penisland."
There's a guy I follow on the internet called "penusbmic", and he claims it's supposed to mean "Pen, USB, Mic".
Whatever you say, Penus B. Mic.
But something has to be written on the birth certificate and social security card, and that's what everything else will expect you to use. I think just due to technical limitations (e.g. of the printer/template for those things) it wouldn't be allowed, but I dunno about legally
This sounds like the start of another sovcit "loophole"
why settle for \n when you can go for the stylish carriage return
so
John\r Doe? depending on the software, when it gets printed, the carriage return will moves the cursor to the start of the line without moving a line down, becoming\x20Doe.This is the ideal rendition, I would say. On a related note, I just love it when there are backspaces in my filenames
¿Porqué no los dos? A nice \r\n, Windows style.
Gotta band it Windows tho, it just feels right, I want to enjoy my fake typewriter
A line break is a non-printable character. So it would only work in the scope of electronic storage. The minute it hits other media, the line break character is subject to how that media handles it’s presence, and then it is lost permanently from that step forward.
Plus, many input forms make use of validation that will just trim anything that isn’t a character or number, removing the line break character.
A line break doesnt have to be electronic only. You just... start a new line on the paper.
If it were somehow legally allowed, the sanitization would be incorrect.
As someone with a very mildly unusual name, I can tell you that it doesn't matter whether a system could or could not meaningfully represent the name. Often the people or systems just refuse to acknowledge any deviation from what's expected. Sometimes databases are written to enforce arbitrary grammatical rules that make my name impossible to write, or the people using the systems will just "correct" the "error" without telling me. I don't mind that much but our normative systems just love to homogenise us.
Because sadly we live in a society, and normal names are required for the functioning of society.
No they're not. They're required for us to be catalogued and managed by a state, to our detriment and the enrichment of the ruling class.
"Normality" is a fucking scam that keeps your imagination in check, so you never look outside your assigned box and realise you don't have to belong to anyone.
You have no idea how much genocidal violence has been done to condition our society to accept a dystopic phrase like "normal names are required for the functioning of society".
Your mind has been caged.
You're right.
I just want to say that my last name is three syllables and spelled exactly how it sounds. In fact it's two common english words stuck together. It was Americanized/Anglicized from Germany.
Three syllables will break brains on people here. I state it clearly. They're like haha what?
For the last 9 years I've just been handing over my work ID badge so they can type it.
I probably said it too dramatically, the kinds of people that need to hear it will just knee-jerk dismiss me, but seriously think about the phrase "normal names are required for the functioning of society". What a wild-ass thing to say. Required why? Is society really that fragile? Sounds like maybe it should be replaced by something that can handle the occasional mildly spicy letter. Mine isn't even that spicy, it's like whole-egg-mayo levels of spice.
It's hard to believe but it's just a couple people being shitty. Many probably agree sadly, but damn, get with it people !
I understand all the crashes database, Bobby Tables arguments. But shit, just update your system to accept Unicode and we'll live happily ever after. At least my child 🍆💦ヾ(⌐■_■)ノ♪ will be finally recognized. 🤙
That's a beautiful name.
It's time to log off and get a vasectomy
What about an open bracket? (
) Found Satan
( it will be fine with enough upvotes
Teehee )
Downvoting in order to bring it below @whynot's comment.
( 😀
))<>((
It's impossible to represent that on paper. It could be misrepresented as a specific number of spaces. Depending on the position on the paper, it may also be hard to tell if the carriage return comes with the line feed. Unless you want the document to be in ASCII or EBCDIC hex, it's like writing an ambiguous math problem where the answer is different depending on how you were taught about the order of operations. Don't do this to your kid, Abcde.
Always sanitize your Data inputs.
Am I allowed to include sql command words such as drop table in my child's name?
Simmer down, Bobby
https://xkcd.com/327/
Anyone remember when Chrome had that issue with validating nested URL-encoded characters? Anyone for John%%80%80 Doe?
Unix or dos format?
Anyway, you probably need to put a backslash before it to indicate line continuation.
But wouldn't it be better to use something more traditional, such as <br>?
HTML is more traditional than
\n?True, poor choice of phrase.
But I was thnking of something like
I'm not american and I'm glad I'm not but intended if someone could enter a bunch of zero width spaces
I really can't even begin to properly explain this because it's just so many layers of intuition. No, you absolutely cannot have a line break in your name. That's not a letter. That said, I'm fully prepared for someone to give me an example of some writing system that uses line breaks for unique purposes apart from spaces.
Chaotic neutral response: A line break is just white space.
Most languages use white spaces
its not just a white space. Sometimes it entails a white space, when theres still space on that line. Sometimes it does not.
😎🤙
Good luck with that.
Most computer nayetems will trim the crap out of that name, the white spaces like space, tab, \r and \n will be gone by the time it's in the database
Be funny as fuck if Canada started extradition procedures when he landed
John doe is invaild syntax.
It just be
(John \doe);