The """alpha male's""" masculinity is so fragile, they threw a conniption when seeing a picture of a fit woman.
I have a personal hypothesis that self-proclaimed alpha [males] may feel the same gender dysphoria that trans folk do, only it is the sensation that they present less masculine than they actually do, so in their effort to attaining a little bit of machismo they go way overboard.
It's similar I think to the way Donald Trump can be President of the United States, and still feel fragile and unworthy.
Lol, so if I'm hearing you right, people who yap endlessly about "being alpha" are "beta to alpha trans"?
I do think there is some element of gender disillusionment if not dysphoria in very insecure men. I don't think calling them some stage of trans has the right implications though. They are men that want to stay men. But their internal views of men are constantly challenged by their culture and environment.
Nothing says women can't have muscular bodies or else they must be men or being a woman wrong in some way. But that dissonance obviously irritates the type of guy that unironically wants to be an alpha gigachad. So they impose their own standards on others, unknowingly outing their insecurities.
If I'm being really honest though even if I thought all of that was likely, it's way more likely that people on the Internet just love to start flame wars about anything if they're bored enough. Especially when the target is a woman.
I think an argument could be made that since gender is a social construct anyways, the idea of "alpha", "beta", and "sigma" males are different genders.
I'll just copy-paste what I said last time:
The idea that gender is entirely socially constructed is easily the greatest misconception about gender that gets repeated time and again ā almost always by cis people, who never think too much about it because theyāve never had to reconsider their own gender.
Gender roles and gender stereotypes really are socially constructed, like the idea that some clothes are feminine and others are masculine, just to name one example. Gender identity, however, is not. If that was true, like the previous commenter was saying, conversion therapy for trans people would work, when itās been shown it absolutely doesnāt. Gender dysphoria isnāt a social construct either. Many trans people see their own lives improve considerably after taking HRT (hormone therapy) and having gender-affirming surgeries ā how can that be explained socially? Also, we know there is a genetic component to being trans as well, because of twin studies. All of which shows there really is a biological component to gender ā just not in the āgender = genitalsā way that transphobes think.
Your quote reminds me of one of the biggest misconceptions about Judith Butler's work who wrote so much about gender....
People constantly misquote them and say that Butler wrote that "gender is a performance" and assume that Butler meant that gender is fake.
What Butler Butler actually wrote is that "gender is performative", ie. it involves a performance that communicates our gender identity to others without the performance being the end-all-be-all of gender.
Iām gonna guess you get push-back on this, depending on how youāve phrased it before, because saying gender is not a construct is a strong/radical statement in the context of theory.
I imagine your point is that, for an individual, gender is not some arbitrary choice. It is very real. I agree. That is consistent with the idea of finding oneself on a dynamic gender spectra that is collectively defined; i.e., a social construct.
The people who try to deny an individualās gender, who they are, by using social construct as a synonym for ānot real,ā do not understand the term and, more importantly, will always find some other reason to do so until they learn to be better people. That is, the term itself is not to blame.
saying gender is not a construct is a strong/radical statement in the context of theory
To be clear, I'm saying gender identity isn't a social construct (gender roles definitely are). And that's hardly a radical statement given that there is a genetic factor to being trans, as evidenced by e.g. twin studies like this one which found a much higher amount of cases where both twins are trans among identical twins (who have the same genetic code) than non-identical twins. Also, like I mentioned before, a lot of trans people feel considerable relief to their own gender dysphoria upon seeking hormone therapy and gender-affirming surgeries, which is quite hard to explain on a social basis.
To be clear, Iām saying gender identity isnāt [entirely] a social construct
Then Iām with you 100%.
Sorry for going straight to pedantic bitch over semantics, but sometimes itās injected as a wedge issue by bad faith actors with local clout, and then burying the lede is a mistake.
Coherency on the gender constructionism thing is a phalanx for everyone in the space (protecting mostly trans folk now, others later) because the potential contradiction in the gender [identity/expression] distinction and the resulting confusion (quickly seen here) is continually weaponized by phobes in an old but still popular have-it-both-ways narrative about wokism.
Thanks for coming back to reply to everyone.
ETA clarity and context
Why does gender identity being a social construct mean conversation therapy would work? I don't follow the logic behind that assertion.
I see no reason why you can't be biologically predisposed to identify as things that are socially constructed.
The rationale that many people follow is that if gender is socially constructed, it can be socially changed as well (through conversion therapy) to make your kid align with their assigned gender at birth, which doesn't work in reality.
Those people should probably read more. While a social construct does not have an absolute origin, that something is a social construct has never implied that itās āfake.ā
Especially at the level of the individual, where the gender āconstructā becomes a monolith and internal and external perceptions belong to one person, it contains the entire definition for that individual at a point in time. So for the individual at a point in time, the construct is not only real, itās literally all there is.
Changing the social definition of the concepts of gender, and how people view themselves are completely distinct.
I can paint new directions on the face of a compass , but it's still going to point where it was going to point regardless.
North is a social construct, but no amount of conversation therapy is ever going to move the north star.
hey! the idea that gender is entirely socially constructed is also advanced by agender enbys like young me who simply never experienced a feeling of gender in their lives, and thus agreed with fellow enby Judith Butler that gender is a funny silly game we play for no reason. do not go around presuming those people are cisgender or that everyone biologically feels gender like you do
I can see why this idea would seem appealing to agender people. But that's taking one's personal case and turning it into a statement about gender as a whole. Gender having a biological component isn't at odds with agender or NB people, but claiming gender is socially constructed is indeed problematic, like I said before.
That's toxic masculinity in a nutshell. See also the author of The Game describing sex in the most mechanical terms - coming reeeal close to acknowledging he does not actually desire women sexually, he's just conditioned to see them as a goal.
This is an understatement. History tells many tales that have passed through the ages that men in this instance have still not learned.
I'm pretty sure it's dysmorphia rather than dysphoria. Dysphoria is rooted in an accurate picture of yourself and dysmorphia in an inaccurate one. If a guy starts going to the gym because the idea of not being able to bridal carry his girlfriend makes him feel unmanly, I'd agree that's some flavor of gender dysphoria. On the other hand, someone like the liver king thinking he still doesn't have enough muscle is definitely body dysmorphia.
But I'd agree that (similar to dysphoria) the so-called alphas often have dysmorphia of more than just the body - they worry they come across unmanly in all ways of their presentation, regardless of how much "masculine energy" they're already putting out.
Yeah this is a favorite pet theory of mine as well, partly because I like imagining guys like Andrew Tate protesting being labeled ātrans alphaā or whatever, but also because itās just a fact that many cis people experience a form of gender dysphoria and commonly seek hormone therapy for it at early ages.
Iāve found that comparison usually clicks with uninitiated cis people immediately, even when theyāve only heard othering and alarmist narratives up to that point.
What part of this great picture got them scared?
I thought it was a little unsettling that their legs appear to be on backwards.
I guess, because its very hard for biological women to get abs like that. The muscles are just different. Not impossible, but way, way harder then for men and therefore quite rare.
And we all know, its very scary for bigots to even look at trans people. They might have to wash their eyes with soap now.
just wanna add that it is easier to get them with testosterone. i think it makes sense to make that distinction here since there are literal cis women body builder who take it as performance enhancing drugs.
Interesting. I wasn't sure if it gets harder for trans women, when they are on estrogen. Do they loose the abs?
There is absolutely some muscle loss when on hrt. A study suggests transfems are comparable to cis women after about 2 years on hormones. Dunno if transfems have an easier time having visible abs, though.
depends on the order. if you build abs on testosterone (t) then go on estrogen (e) then you just can with relatively easily upkeep them. if you went on e before working out, its just as hard as for cis women. so hardcore cis women body builder go on t for a short time (some weeks) to get big muscles easier before retuning to e.
I'm gonna ask for t for totally cis reasons now. I'm definitely a body builder and absolutely not an š„.
So, itās not exactly easily available for workout purposes, but, much like antibiotics, aquarium and fish farm suppliers are not bound by the normal laws of pharmaceuticals but are bound by food safety to make sure the stuff is pure and uncontaminated.
(source: I have family who work in fish farming)
I think it's less that the muscles are different, and more about body fat percentage and maybe distribution. You could have the strongest core in the world, but if there's a layer of fat on top of your abs, they won't have this visible definition.
Also... Really rare to have boobs that big AND such low body fat, but all sorts of women get implants.
I thought it was just regular old sexism; woman getting stronk has the men with fragile egos feeling scared.
Could you clarify for a sec what you actually mean by "biological women"?
People with XX chromosomes and no hormonal therapy.
What's not to understand?
The simple fact that you don't know people's genetic material, maybe. Just use ācis womenā if you want to talk about cis women and avoid heavily transphobic wording. Gender isn't related to (assumed) chromosomes
We are talking about sex, not gender here! What did you gain with this comment?
The first comment used "women" which is a gender identity
I interpreted ābiologicalā in this context to refer to women whoāve been impacted by the difference i hormones, i.e., a cis woman with average amounts of estrogen / testosterone would qualify, as would a trans woman who has been on estrogen for a couple years. Sort of a āpeople for whom the following statement is relevantā kind of an adjective.
In future I'd advise using the term cis woman instead of biological woman because biological woman has a history of being used as a transphobic term by TERFs to delegitimise trans people, especially in the UK.
Yeah, I wasn't sure about how to differentiate it. English is not my natural language.
I disagree about using "cis" in this context though. I wasn't sure how much of the effects are hormonal and if it is the same for trans men. And its also true for non binary and genderfluid persons. So cis seemed to exclude many.
I got curious and looked into it and there were some helpful comments too. It turns out it's mostly about the estrogen. So this means cis women, xx-chomosome non binary and gender fluid people (as long as they are not substituting hormons), trans women on estrogen and trans men who do not substitute testosterone.
So that would mean instead of "biological women" it would be "hormonal female" I guess, or what is the correct for that?
If the West falling means we get more fit women with abs, good. Let it all crash down.
I don't find abs in women attractive. But if women want to have them, and others want to admire them, who am I to stop them?
If more people had this attitude towards harmless things that don't suit their tastes we'd live in a far less hostile world. Thanks for being a decent person!
I find abs in women damn attractive. Actually surprised me as I didn't used to. I think something in me changed on my own journey which has made me respect and admire the qualities that lead to their abs more than it being a superficial "that looks good".
Because the woman makes an effort to take care of herself and it makes them feel shitty about being lazy.
Some guys feel emasculated when they can't make a beautiful woman like them. So the only way they can feel like they've taken some power back is to belittle and talk down beautiful women.
because they won't touch their peepee
Because they can choose whose peepee, if any, that they want to touch. And yes, they choose not to touch said podcaster.
Because they are afraid she'd absolutely dominate them? Freaking AlPHa MalEs.
gender
Yup, reinforces my love for women.
the west IS indeed falling, just not for the reasons the chud podcaster types think it is.
the irony of it is that its probably more to do with the aforementioned podcasters than with [shuffles cards] women who go to the gym.
Women who go to the gym will save us from the system collapse with their mommy muscles š¤
I think the podcasts are a more a symptom of people attempting to rationalize how real issues are the fault of anything but the systems they are personally invested in.
If this is the fall, I am ready for the fall.
Falling in love, maybe.
Love both the usernames here
What is so crazy is that a lot of these folks look up to Sparta because of its dedication to physical conditioning. But of the people that traveled to Sparta we know that they wrote of watching the women of Sparta exercise because they were known to be strong, fast, and beautiful because of their exercise and physical conditioning was expected of them even as slave owning elites.
This person should be lauded for their dedication to conditioning and feared for their ability to Kegel a steel girder asunder. And they probably don't even own one slave outright so it is even that more amazing.
Spartan men where also known to be regularly fucking each other. It was seen as a way of bonding between men when training.
You fight harder for the man next to you when he gives good dick.
i'm a gay man but that's hot as fuck
I'm a bi/pan woman and yes, that is an objective truth.
Because it looks manly.
It's like when they show a man with perfectly round manboobs. Something primal in me would say "I'd motorboard those!"
Why are muscles manly?
Testosterone. I mean as a straight guy I love strong women but like, there is definitely a correlation between testosterone and muscle mass.
Scientifically yes, but it is society that has taught us to dislike muscular women. And frankly I love this look on a woman, it tells me about her values....values I find damn attractive.
She has an absolutely statue-esque physique. These chuds are so fragile. This intimidates them.
I miss being fit. Muscle mommies are underrated. All the endorphins. First thing I'm going to do off a grad student salary is get a personal trainer. Fitness makes me feel normal and happy. I lost my six pack here, foo.
If I may ask, what stopped you? Because being fit isn't only for the rich....you can do bodyweight and still be damn fit!
I tripped on stairs and my foot got stuck on carpet staples during apt rennovations. They can't find what happened to the soft tissue yet, it is still purple on the side. I can walk and even hike a bit but I really feel it later. I didnt break anything, my foot was stronger than most from sports, so I basically got really bad turf toe plus something is damaged mechanically. It throws off my balance a bit too, otherwise I'd be doing yoga. They thought it would heal but it's not... It's been a few years of waiting and trying different things and tests; but I have a specialist seeing me in a few months if they don't reschedule again (the healthcare here is great, just not enough workers)...
That being said I hate, hate, hate the gym, it feels too voyeuristic and crowded. I'd rather be outside doing something fun. I know I'll go if I'm paying for a trainer. If all else fails I'll get a little Pelican kayak or find a heated pool in the next place I live and do my thing when I'm not worried about money haha.
I will say that feeling your muscles atrophy is fucking wild. Fortunately my partner is a trained masseuse that has worked on a lot of athletes!! :)
Hope you get to the bottom of it soon!
Sounds like you still have lots of options for maintaining fitness:
pretty much any upper body exercises
bodyweight single-leg squats?
if you can get to a cheap gym you've got a myriad of resistance machines available they don't need balance etc..but maybe cost is an issue.
Anyway I'm sure you've thought of all of this - just know this one stranger wants you to be able to lead a healthier life soon!
I'm going to be honest: I will not do any of that lol. It does not keep my brain busy therefore, it doesn't happen. I've got that internal ADHD.
Never heard of it, but I can imagine what you mean!
I can understand not being into commercial gyms for a variety of reasons. Would you be open to a home fitness setup (given the space etc)
Tiny European houses are tiny.
I feel this (south east england). I'm fortunate enough to have a little space in my garage for a half rack, incline bench, Olympic gear and accessories. I got into the idea of how little equipment (and floorspace) you can get by with for a comprehensive setup, it sort of became a little research project over the pandemic.
In the interim, I stumbled across some excellent body weight exercises that can be performed with minimal equipment (piston/pistol squat, Nordic and reverse Nordic curl, single leg hip thrust, handstand press, etc). I was most surprised to find out how well you could train your legs without additional gear. A set of resistance bands and a pair of small dumbbells can go a very long way
I won't do it regularly myself because it is boring. That is why I need to pay someone to force me; otherwise, it is another chore I do not enjoy. and am not keeping up with. I would waste far less money seeing a trainer for a bit. I also need to be very careful of old disc injuries in my spine so I am leery to do lifting without a trainer. I have a plan, I am almost done. :)
That's understandable. I have a close friend who feels very much the same way. Their approach to fitness is far more functional than mine (rock climber), and he gets a great deal of enjoyment from it.
Yes, I was a climber too! :)
Ah, then I understand your viewpoint well!
Climbing is wonderful. Hope you get back into it someday.
Bruh, I got stuck in bed for a few years and the first few months were so weird, feeling my knee joints becoming less stable thanks to less muscular support.
That being said I hate, hate, hate the gym, it feels too voyeuristic and crowded. Iād rather be outside doing something fun. I know Iāll go if Iām paying for a trainer. If all else fails Iāll get a little Pelican kayak or find a heated pool in the next place I live and do my thing when Iām not worried about money haha.
I also have a hard time going to the gym. I bought a set of adjustable dumbbells so I can just work out at home. They even have a bar that screws in between them to make it into a barbell (I don't have a rack to really load it up safely but it's still useful). Since I got those my workout schedule has stayed pretty consistent. It seems the "having to go somewhere" part was what was always tripping me up before.
Once you find those blocks and what makes them, it helps the guilt a ton!
Dood, Have you done grad school for the sciences? Man, my last 2 years had me hunched over researching/working for 60hr a week minimum, then the study and class time.
I don't know what grad school is - I have a masters degree in astrophysics and I have to say it required nothing like what you've described, so I suspect you're aiming for a PhD or something?
Balancing life and fitness can be very challenging these days, especially the kind of commitment required to achieve the lean and strong body shown here.
Good luck in your studies, I hope you find time for a healthier lifestyle soon!
BTW- the original poster mentioned the affordability, not the time issue. Hence why I said what I did.
Muscle mommies are underrated.
Oh I don't know about that. We worship you.
More muscle mommies please.
Edit: realized this is a lgbtq groupā¦ Iām a straight dude and love this pic.
* Increased demographic of physically fit people *
āServies: REEEEE
Is homosexuality still politics? Because Iām definitely feeling a lot of that at the moment
Username checks out
Well, to be fair, everything is politics. But yes, the ownership class is looking to displace responsibility for mass scarcity and precarity away from them and are choosing the usual suspects of marginalized social groups. LGBT+ and uppity women are high up on the list along with immigrants.
Beautiful end of western civilisation. Being a doomer finally paid off.
My excitement for the fall of western civilisation cannot be overstated
Also looking forward to the fall of Eastern Civilization... And Central Civilization...
finland and argentina eating popcorn as they watch the world burn
The west has fallen, my forefathers died fighting against outie belly buttons.
Hey, it's just an innie with nowhere left to go.
Would.
Penis or not. That's a rockin bod. End of discussion
You see how tight those abs are? It'd be like blowing into a milk carton.
Two things here:
Unrealistic body standards are a known issue. Yes, fit women exist, but I'm betting there aren't plus-sized mannequins in yoga pants next to this one. But there absolutely should because, hey, exercise is good for everyone.
The "west has fallen" angle cracks me up. It's so full of dissonance, I can't even.
Edit: the weird lighting had me thinking that was a plastic mannequin and not a real person. That's just incredible.
That's not a mannequin. It's just a lady showing off her awesome abs.
In that case, that's super impressive. But that skin doesn't look right. Is it the lighting?
The lighting, the angle, and the fact that she appears to have just finished working out (and is thus very, very sweaty).
Unrealistic expectations are absolutely a thing and we should promote normal physiques.
Also, being fat is absolutely a thing and we should promote not being fat.
Caveat: some people say "plus size" to mean healthy weight. Some people say "plus size" to mean fat/overweight. Being overweight is a significant health risk, and I say this as someone who is overweight and trying to fix it.
i wanted to make a chain by posting on raddle š
š„ŗšš
Yup
The """alpha male's""" masculinity is so fragile, they threw a conniption when seeing a picture of a fit woman.
I have a personal hypothesis that self-proclaimed alpha [males] may feel the same gender dysphoria that trans folk do, only it is the sensation that they present less masculine than they actually do, so in their effort to attaining a little bit of machismo they go way overboard.
It's similar I think to the way Donald Trump can be President of the United States, and still feel fragile and unworthy.
Lol, so if I'm hearing you right, people who yap endlessly about "being alpha" are "beta to alpha trans"?
I do think there is some element of gender disillusionment if not dysphoria in very insecure men. I don't think calling them some stage of trans has the right implications though. They are men that want to stay men. But their internal views of men are constantly challenged by their culture and environment.
Nothing says women can't have muscular bodies or else they must be men or being a woman wrong in some way. But that dissonance obviously irritates the type of guy that unironically wants to be an alpha gigachad. So they impose their own standards on others, unknowingly outing their insecurities.
If I'm being really honest though even if I thought all of that was likely, it's way more likely that people on the Internet just love to start flame wars about anything if they're bored enough. Especially when the target is a woman.
I think an argument could be made that since gender is a social construct anyways, the idea of "alpha", "beta", and "sigma" males are different genders.
I'll just copy-paste what I said last time:
Your quote reminds me of one of the biggest misconceptions about Judith Butler's work who wrote so much about gender....
People constantly misquote them and say that Butler wrote that "gender is a performance" and assume that Butler meant that gender is fake.
What Butler Butler actually wrote is that "gender is performative", ie. it involves a performance that communicates our gender identity to others without the performance being the end-all-be-all of gender.
Iām gonna guess you get push-back on this, depending on how youāve phrased it before, because saying gender is not a construct is a strong/radical statement in the context of theory.
I imagine your point is that, for an individual, gender is not some arbitrary choice. It is very real. I agree. That is consistent with the idea of finding oneself on a dynamic gender spectra that is collectively defined; i.e., a social construct.
The people who try to deny an individualās gender, who they are, by using social construct as a synonym for ānot real,ā do not understand the term and, more importantly, will always find some other reason to do so until they learn to be better people. That is, the term itself is not to blame.
To be clear, I'm saying gender identity isn't a social construct (gender roles definitely are). And that's hardly a radical statement given that there is a genetic factor to being trans, as evidenced by e.g. twin studies like this one which found a much higher amount of cases where both twins are trans among identical twins (who have the same genetic code) than non-identical twins. Also, like I mentioned before, a lot of trans people feel considerable relief to their own gender dysphoria upon seeking hormone therapy and gender-affirming surgeries, which is quite hard to explain on a social basis.
Then Iām with you 100%.
Sorry for going straight to pedantic bitch over semantics, but sometimes itās injected as a wedge issue by bad faith actors with local clout, and then burying the lede is a mistake.
Coherency on the gender constructionism thing is a phalanx for everyone in the space (protecting mostly trans folk now, others later) because the potential contradiction in the gender [identity/expression] distinction and the resulting confusion (quickly seen here) is continually weaponized by phobes in an old but still popular have-it-both-ways narrative about wokism.
Thanks for coming back to reply to everyone.
ETA clarity and context
Why does gender identity being a social construct mean conversation therapy would work? I don't follow the logic behind that assertion.
I see no reason why you can't be biologically predisposed to identify as things that are socially constructed.
The rationale that many people follow is that if gender is socially constructed, it can be socially changed as well (through conversion therapy) to make your kid align with their assigned gender at birth, which doesn't work in reality.
Those people should probably read more. While a social construct does not have an absolute origin, that something is a social construct has never implied that itās āfake.ā
Especially at the level of the individual, where the gender āconstructā becomes a monolith and internal and external perceptions belong to one person, it contains the entire definition for that individual at a point in time. So for the individual at a point in time, the construct is not only real, itās literally all there is.
Changing the social definition of the concepts of gender, and how people view themselves are completely distinct.
I can paint new directions on the face of a compass , but it's still going to point where it was going to point regardless.
North is a social construct, but no amount of conversation therapy is ever going to move the north star.
hey! the idea that gender is entirely socially constructed is also advanced by agender enbys like young me who simply never experienced a feeling of gender in their lives, and thus agreed with fellow enby Judith Butler that gender is a funny silly game we play for no reason. do not go around presuming those people are cisgender or that everyone biologically feels gender like you do
I can see why this idea would seem appealing to agender people. But that's taking one's personal case and turning it into a statement about gender as a whole. Gender having a biological component isn't at odds with agender or NB people, but claiming gender is socially constructed is indeed problematic, like I said before.
That's toxic masculinity in a nutshell. See also the author of The Game describing sex in the most mechanical terms - coming reeeal close to acknowledging he does not actually desire women sexually, he's just conditioned to see them as a goal.
This is an understatement. History tells many tales that have passed through the ages that men in this instance have still not learned.
I'm pretty sure it's dysmorphia rather than dysphoria. Dysphoria is rooted in an accurate picture of yourself and dysmorphia in an inaccurate one. If a guy starts going to the gym because the idea of not being able to bridal carry his girlfriend makes him feel unmanly, I'd agree that's some flavor of gender dysphoria. On the other hand, someone like the liver king thinking he still doesn't have enough muscle is definitely body dysmorphia.
But I'd agree that (similar to dysphoria) the so-called alphas often have dysmorphia of more than just the body - they worry they come across unmanly in all ways of their presentation, regardless of how much "masculine energy" they're already putting out.
Yeah this is a favorite pet theory of mine as well, partly because I like imagining guys like Andrew Tate protesting being labeled ātrans alphaā or whatever, but also because itās just a fact that many cis people experience a form of gender dysphoria and commonly seek hormone therapy for it at early ages.
Iāve found that comparison usually clicks with uninitiated cis people immediately, even when theyāve only heard othering and alarmist narratives up to that point.
What part of this great picture got them scared?
I thought it was a little unsettling that their legs appear to be on backwards.
I guess, because its very hard for biological women to get abs like that. The muscles are just different. Not impossible, but way, way harder then for men and therefore quite rare.
And we all know, its very scary for bigots to even look at trans people. They might have to wash their eyes with soap now.
just wanna add that it is easier to get them with testosterone. i think it makes sense to make that distinction here since there are literal cis women body builder who take it as performance enhancing drugs.
Interesting. I wasn't sure if it gets harder for trans women, when they are on estrogen. Do they loose the abs?
There is absolutely some muscle loss when on hrt. A study suggests transfems are comparable to cis women after about 2 years on hormones. Dunno if transfems have an easier time having visible abs, though.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577.full?ijkey=yjlCzZVZFRDZzHz&keytype=ref
depends on the order. if you build abs on testosterone (t) then go on estrogen (e) then you just can with relatively easily upkeep them. if you went on e before working out, its just as hard as for cis women. so hardcore cis women body builder go on t for a short time (some weeks) to get big muscles easier before retuning to e.
I'm gonna ask for t for totally cis reasons now. I'm definitely a body builder and absolutely not an š„.
So, itās not exactly easily available for workout purposes, but, much like antibiotics, aquarium and fish farm suppliers are not bound by the normal laws of pharmaceuticals but are bound by food safety to make sure the stuff is pure and uncontaminated.
(source: I have family who work in fish farming)
I think it's less that the muscles are different, and more about body fat percentage and maybe distribution. You could have the strongest core in the world, but if there's a layer of fat on top of your abs, they won't have this visible definition.
Also... Really rare to have boobs that big AND such low body fat, but all sorts of women get implants.
I thought it was just regular old sexism; woman getting stronk has the men with fragile egos feeling scared.
Could you clarify for a sec what you actually mean by "biological women"?
People with XX chromosomes and no hormonal therapy.
What's not to understand?
The simple fact that you don't know people's genetic material, maybe. Just use ācis womenā if you want to talk about cis women and avoid heavily transphobic wording. Gender isn't related to (assumed) chromosomes
We are talking about sex, not gender here! What did you gain with this comment?
The first comment used "women" which is a gender identity
xx chromosomes is not the best predictor here, cis woman hormone levels would be closer. see de la chapelle
What do you mean by biological women?
I interpreted ābiologicalā in this context to refer to women whoāve been impacted by the difference i hormones, i.e., a cis woman with average amounts of estrogen / testosterone would qualify, as would a trans woman who has been on estrogen for a couple years. Sort of a āpeople for whom the following statement is relevantā kind of an adjective.
In future I'd advise using the term cis woman instead of biological woman because biological woman has a history of being used as a transphobic term by TERFs to delegitimise trans people, especially in the UK.
Yeah, I wasn't sure about how to differentiate it. English is not my natural language.
I disagree about using "cis" in this context though. I wasn't sure how much of the effects are hormonal and if it is the same for trans men. And its also true for non binary and genderfluid persons. So cis seemed to exclude many.
I got curious and looked into it and there were some helpful comments too. It turns out it's mostly about the estrogen. So this means cis women, xx-chomosome non binary and gender fluid people (as long as they are not substituting hormons), trans women on estrogen and trans men who do not substitute testosterone.
So that would mean instead of "biological women" it would be "hormonal female" I guess, or what is the correct for that?
sweaty 6 pack made their pants tight, and monkey brain confused as only men should have 6 pack abs...ergo they may have caught the gay
If the West falling means we get more fit women with abs, good. Let it all crash down.
I don't find abs in women attractive. But if women want to have them, and others want to admire them, who am I to stop them?
If more people had this attitude towards harmless things that don't suit their tastes we'd live in a far less hostile world. Thanks for being a decent person!
I find abs in women damn attractive. Actually surprised me as I didn't used to. I think something in me changed on my own journey which has made me respect and admire the qualities that lead to their abs more than it being a superficial "that looks good".
Fellas, is it gay to think women are hot?
drooling, sweating, crying, moaning, throwing up, flying, levitating, spinning, turning inside out, achieving enlightenment, ...
Why do podcasters hate attractive women
Because the woman makes an effort to take care of herself and it makes them feel shitty about being lazy.
Some guys feel emasculated when they can't make a beautiful woman like them. So the only way they can feel like they've taken some power back is to belittle and talk down beautiful women.
because they won't touch their peepee
Because they can choose whose peepee, if any, that they want to touch. And yes, they choose not to touch said podcaster.
Because they are afraid she'd absolutely dominate them? Freaking AlPHa MalEs.
gender
Yup, reinforces my love for women.
the west IS indeed falling, just not for the reasons the chud podcaster types think it is.
the irony of it is that its probably more to do with the aforementioned podcasters than with [shuffles cards] women who go to the gym.
Women who go to the gym will save us from the system collapse with their mommy muscles š¤
I think the podcasts are a more a symptom of people attempting to rationalize how real issues are the fault of anything but the systems they are personally invested in.
If this is the fall, I am ready for the fall.
Falling in love, maybe.
Love both the usernames here
What is so crazy is that a lot of these folks look up to Sparta because of its dedication to physical conditioning. But of the people that traveled to Sparta we know that they wrote of watching the women of Sparta exercise because they were known to be strong, fast, and beautiful because of their exercise and physical conditioning was expected of them even as slave owning elites.
This person should be lauded for their dedication to conditioning and feared for their ability to Kegel a steel girder asunder. And they probably don't even own one slave outright so it is even that more amazing.
Spartan men where also known to be regularly fucking each other. It was seen as a way of bonding between men when training.
You fight harder for the man next to you when he gives good dick.
i'm a gay man but that's hot as fuck
I'm a bi/pan woman and yes, that is an objective truth.
Because it looks manly.
It's like when they show a man with perfectly round manboobs. Something primal in me would say "I'd motorboard those!"
Why are muscles manly?
Testosterone. I mean as a straight guy I love strong women but like, there is definitely a correlation between testosterone and muscle mass.
Scientifically yes, but it is society that has taught us to dislike muscular women. And frankly I love this look on a woman, it tells me about her values....values I find damn attractive.
She has an absolutely statue-esque physique. These chuds are so fragile. This intimidates them.
I miss being fit. Muscle mommies are underrated. All the endorphins. First thing I'm going to do off a grad student salary is get a personal trainer. Fitness makes me feel normal and happy. I lost my six pack here, foo.
If I may ask, what stopped you? Because being fit isn't only for the rich....you can do bodyweight and still be damn fit!
I tripped on stairs and my foot got stuck on carpet staples during apt rennovations. They can't find what happened to the soft tissue yet, it is still purple on the side. I can walk and even hike a bit but I really feel it later. I didnt break anything, my foot was stronger than most from sports, so I basically got really bad turf toe plus something is damaged mechanically. It throws off my balance a bit too, otherwise I'd be doing yoga. They thought it would heal but it's not... It's been a few years of waiting and trying different things and tests; but I have a specialist seeing me in a few months if they don't reschedule again (the healthcare here is great, just not enough workers)...
That being said I hate, hate, hate the gym, it feels too voyeuristic and crowded. I'd rather be outside doing something fun. I know I'll go if I'm paying for a trainer. If all else fails I'll get a little Pelican kayak or find a heated pool in the next place I live and do my thing when I'm not worried about money haha.
I will say that feeling your muscles atrophy is fucking wild. Fortunately my partner is a trained masseuse that has worked on a lot of athletes!! :)
Hope you get to the bottom of it soon!
Sounds like you still have lots of options for maintaining fitness:
Anyway I'm sure you've thought of all of this - just know this one stranger wants you to be able to lead a healthier life soon!
I'm going to be honest: I will not do any of that lol. It does not keep my brain busy therefore, it doesn't happen. I've got that internal ADHD.
Never heard of it, but I can imagine what you mean!
I can understand not being into commercial gyms for a variety of reasons. Would you be open to a home fitness setup (given the space etc)
Tiny European houses are tiny.
I feel this (south east england). I'm fortunate enough to have a little space in my garage for a half rack, incline bench, Olympic gear and accessories. I got into the idea of how little equipment (and floorspace) you can get by with for a comprehensive setup, it sort of became a little research project over the pandemic.
In the interim, I stumbled across some excellent body weight exercises that can be performed with minimal equipment (piston/pistol squat, Nordic and reverse Nordic curl, single leg hip thrust, handstand press, etc). I was most surprised to find out how well you could train your legs without additional gear. A set of resistance bands and a pair of small dumbbells can go a very long way
I won't do it regularly myself because it is boring. That is why I need to pay someone to force me; otherwise, it is another chore I do not enjoy. and am not keeping up with. I would waste far less money seeing a trainer for a bit. I also need to be very careful of old disc injuries in my spine so I am leery to do lifting without a trainer. I have a plan, I am almost done. :)
That's understandable. I have a close friend who feels very much the same way. Their approach to fitness is far more functional than mine (rock climber), and he gets a great deal of enjoyment from it.
Yes, I was a climber too! :)
Ah, then I understand your viewpoint well!
Climbing is wonderful. Hope you get back into it someday.
Bruh, I got stuck in bed for a few years and the first few months were so weird, feeling my knee joints becoming less stable thanks to less muscular support.
I also have a hard time going to the gym. I bought a set of adjustable dumbbells so I can just work out at home. They even have a bar that screws in between them to make it into a barbell (I don't have a rack to really load it up safely but it's still useful). Since I got those my workout schedule has stayed pretty consistent. It seems the "having to go somewhere" part was what was always tripping me up before.
Once you find those blocks and what makes them, it helps the guilt a ton!
Dood, Have you done grad school for the sciences? Man, my last 2 years had me hunched over researching/working for 60hr a week minimum, then the study and class time.
I don't know what grad school is - I have a masters degree in astrophysics and I have to say it required nothing like what you've described, so I suspect you're aiming for a PhD or something?
Balancing life and fitness can be very challenging these days, especially the kind of commitment required to achieve the lean and strong body shown here.
Good luck in your studies, I hope you find time for a healthier lifestyle soon!
BTW- the original poster mentioned the affordability, not the time issue. Hence why I said what I did.
Oh I don't know about that. We worship you.
More muscle mommies please.
Edit: realized this is a lgbtq groupā¦ Iām a straight dude and love this pic.
* Increased demographic of physically fit people *
āServies: REEEEE
Is homosexuality still politics? Because Iām definitely feeling a lot of that at the moment
Username checks out
Well, to be fair, everything is politics. But yes, the ownership class is looking to displace responsibility for mass scarcity and precarity away from them and are choosing the usual suspects of marginalized social groups. LGBT+ and uppity women are high up on the list along with immigrants.
Beautiful end of western civilisation. Being a doomer finally paid off.
My excitement for the fall of western civilisation cannot be overstated
Also looking forward to the fall of Eastern Civilization... And Central Civilization...
finland and argentina eating popcorn as they watch the world burn
The west has fallen, my forefathers died fighting against outie belly buttons.
Hey, it's just an innie with nowhere left to go.
Would.
Penis or not. That's a rockin bod. End of discussion
Wait she has a penis? 11/10 then
I'm pansexual, penis doesn't matter to me at all.
The most erotic part of a woman is the abbies
Eh the west has always dealt with male fragility. I thought this article was interesting https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/what-historical-ideals-womens-shapes-teach-us-about-womens-self-perception-and-body-decisions-today/2019-10
So awful? That poor woman really did have a voice in her ear calling her fat!
That's hot
I sense alot of fragile male egos
The west has fallen, long live the west
So I scanned bolverk15's Twitter and could not locate that original photo and find the actual ab model for research purposes. Someone please help.
Actually, that took two seconds with reverse image search.
https://x.com/AphroditeFit20/status/1556194761048031233
Smh
I'm not convinced that AphroditeFit20 is the person in the photo. They post a lot of different fit women on their timeline.
It's la_ren.official_88
Looked at their profile and can't tell if it's the same person? It's the same type of poses.
Update: after more thorough investigation and analyzing each photo carefully, I have come to the conclusion it's the same person.
I will continue to do more research after lunch, after work, and maybe twice before bed.
Ah damn. Well to be fair, I don't have a twitter account so I couldn't check the profile.
Could be a selfie?
Disgusting outie belly button. Hard pass. 1/10. Would not bang.
B-but, how else do you grab her belly and pretend like you're blowing up the world's cutest balloon?? š©š©š©
You see how tight those abs are? It'd be like blowing into a milk carton.
Two things here:
Edit: the weird lighting had me thinking that was a plastic mannequin and not a real person. That's just incredible.
That's not a mannequin. It's just a lady showing off her awesome abs.
In that case, that's super impressive. But that skin doesn't look right. Is it the lighting?
The lighting, the angle, and the fact that she appears to have just finished working out (and is thus very, very sweaty).
Unrealistic expectations are absolutely a thing and we should promote normal physiques.
Also, being fat is absolutely a thing and we should promote not being fat.
Caveat: some people say "plus size" to mean healthy weight. Some people say "plus size" to mean fat/overweight. Being overweight is a significant health risk, and I say this as someone who is overweight and trying to fix it.
i wanted to make a chain by posting on raddle š