Should half naked pictures of anime characters be marked NSFW on Lemmy?

Rade0nfighter@lemmy.world to Ask Lemmy@lemmy.world – 263 points –

I’m talking about this sort of thing. Like clearly I wouldn’t want someone to see that on my phone in the office or when I’m sat on a bus.

However there seems be a lot of these that aren’t filtered out by nsfw settings, when a similar picture of a woman would be, so it seems this is a deliberate feature I might not be understanding.

Discuss.

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As a huge Anime fan, with some catching up to do, I've blocked every anime adjacent community, because NSFW filtering isn't applied as strictly as I would prefer, on the Anime communities here.

I enjoy a good sexually charged image as much as the next person, perhaps more.

But I scroll Lemmy in front of my impressionable daughter sometimes.

I would like to catch up on Anime recommendations, here.

But, to me, it's just not worth the risk of suddenly needing to explain to my daughter why Faye Valentine's parents didn't love her enough to buy her full sets of clothing.

Op, if my HR dept saw me scroll by that pic... It would be an annoying conversation. Like while I'll agree, there's no nudity... I would get in trouble. I've left some chatroom due to this... People just don't understand that I don't care but the folks cutting my checks will make a thing of it

4 more...

As much as I like looking at pictures of anime girls I think they should be marked as NSFW if they are barely clothed.

I think if you wouldn't use it as your wallpaper at work because it is inappropriate for work, that's NSFW. So yeah at my job that would be NSFW.

I am of the opinion that there should be more granularity to NSFW than a simple binary.

I'm a fan of how e621 does things:

rating:s (safe)

rating:q (questionable)

rating:e (explicit,)

But I would add another:

rating:t (traumatic, known elsewhere as Not Safe For Life)

Call it "purity" and allow users to filter posts to allow or block any arbitrary combination of purity levels (wallhalla, formerly wallbase, does this if you want to see how it could work).

It would be great if everything could be classified in this way, but is it practically possible to apply a more complex system like this across instances, given that we struggle with the simpler NSFW tag?

The reason why people are struggling with one tag may also be exactly because it's only one tag.

It's difficult to categorize gray as black or white, after all.

Imo, the real issue is how not to go overboard, adding more and more tags, and keeping things easy to filter.

Perhaps. I'm not expert but I'm just not convinced you'd get good compliance across instances.

After all, even minimal non- compliance makes the whole thing pointless

Can't the same be said about what we have right now, though?

No system is flawless, but you'd be surprised the lengths people will go to uphold the ones that work.

Moreover I don't think these need to be on a single scale. Like, trauma isn't "more" than pornographic, it's just something completely different (ideally).

There can be a scale of safe to unsafe for a variety of reasons, and people might be able to filter what they see more proactively based on their own tolerances (and interests).

But then again complexity can be a deterrence. Tagging and cataloging can be a big content management problem and I think most want to do the simplest thing possible.

But maybe content advisory could be a crowd sourced effort, using a up/down ranking on explicit categories just like we can do on posts.

I feel like the Internet needs more tags:

  • Explicit (rude language, nudity, etc)
  • Porn (nsfw legacy tag)
  • Violence
  • Not safe for life

Something like that.

These aren't even enough.

The tag for this particular problem would be something like "mildly suggestive" because it's literally just skin that some people don't want to see.

Yeah, I agree. I do sort of understand op's consternation. I don't browse Lemmy on my work PC, but sometimes on lunch or in public I pull it up on my phone on All communities and I'm suddenly conscious that everyone beside me can see the "sfw" furry and anime art that I scroll past.

However, that's kinda my fault. I don't want to ban those communities because I like that stuff. It's just a little odd that we call it sfw when, to be honest, I have a hard time picturing most work places where I live happy to see that on my desktop.

I’ve seen sites that have something similar, including a “suggestive” tag for pics like OP’s.

Yeah, that would be great. Many instance admins already use CSAM classifier models on all incoming images. It'd be great if they could add additional models that could put meta tags on images automatically like "suggestive" and "gore" with the option for the poster to modify the tags just in case it was a false negative or positive. Like a lasagna getting gore, for example.

I wonder if Lemmy could easily do content warnings like on Mastodon. I don’t know if it’s part of the ActivityPub spec but it’s definitely a thing that’s been implemented elsewhere.

The answer to "is it part of the activityPub spec?" is more often than not a strong No.

Of course it should. NSFW doesn’t mean too hot to handle. It means, I don’t want coworkers or customers seeing this on my screen, as a matter of professionalism.

I just want posts or communities to have category tags for me to block by tag. So I can block all anime and every non-English community.

I have nothing against them. They’re just not of interest to me and I don’t want them on my feed. Blocking a community is mostly useless because there are so many of them it’s like playing whack a mole.

I completely agree... Most of my block list are 'moe' communities, and it is only getting longer

Which half?

NSFW is not safe for work, so if it wouldn't fly at work.... it should be marked.

what if someone works in a sex shop? (asking for a friend) /s

Sure, sex workers, morticians, first responders, doctors, AI Gore artists are all interesting corner cases

NSFW to mean implies the content that wont get anyone in trouble or fired.

You know damn well how NSFW is applied on the internet.

Clearly we have a different understanding, how do you apply Not Safe For Work?

I've often seen NSFW used as basically just "contains nudity". You could have a woman in skimpy clothing shaking her everything in a manner clearly trying to evoke sexual thoughts, but because her nipples and genitalia are technically covered, it would get posted as "SFW".

Sure, so you want a nudity/sex tag instead of a NSFW tag.

NSFW would be a superset of nudity.

Just because some people don't know how to use NSFW doesn't mean it means something else than "Not suited for work". Anything that a colleague, boss etc could see that would result in awkwardness, "the talk", is NSFW. Same thing for gore.

I 100% would not want an image like that to pop up in front of a coworker. I'm on board with you, OP.

Yes.

The tag is Not Safe For Work. I'd say that if you were to look at this in most work places you'd probably be speaking to HR within the hour...

I wish there was strictly an amine tag so I could filter all that shit out like you can with nsfw. Blocked countless weirdass communities that randomly popup.

That would be perfectly acceptable where I live and work. No nudity, no tits, no genitals, move along...

On the other hand, anime in general is relegated to teens more than not here, so any anime would raise eyebrows if seems browsing from my phone by others given I am definitely not a teen by large.

YMMV, but different cultures different sensibility.

Should Lemmy be a MCM or a MCD? I think this should be the question.

On the other hand, anime in general is relegated to teens more than not

Does anyone else find this creepy?

Where the NSFW line is drawn varies depending on the moderator and community. If there are communities that are either not moderated actively enough or draw that line too far to one side for your taste, then don't subscribe or block those communities. Those tools exist there for a reason.

I would not consider the post you have linked to as NSFW. I also think that the NSFW tag has evolved over time, so perhaps my definition of NSFW just doesn't line up with what today's standard should be. There are plenty of anime characters in very popular shows that have a character design similar to that. There are big billboards of them some places to promote the show. Just because it might be NSFW in your work environment/region, does not mean it is everywhere.

Just because it might be NSFW in your work environment/region, does not mean it is everywhere.

Yeah. It's not a question of right or wrong, it's a question of whether a moderator (or community) is willing to put into the extra effort to allow folks in sensitive reading environments (or sensitive readers, I suppose) to participate.

I am constantly, personally, under the impression that there are no Anime communities on Lemmy, even though I frequently read "new/all".

I genuinely think there aren't very many. That's true right? I haven't blocked like 700 of them already? I don't give much thought to blocking an unmoderated community, so it could be.

(Sarcasm) Which is tragic for those communities, because my Anime hot takes are on fleek.(/sarcasm)

I think anime has become one of the more active niche interest communities on lemmy. The most active general anime community is !anime@ani.social (shameless plug).

In general, myself and some of the other more active posters have been migrating and encouraging other related communities to be located on the ani.social instance. Part of the reason behind that is that it lets users that just really don't want to see any anime content (see this thread) simply block the instance and move on.

I know all about anime hot takes though. I have previously professed to hating Clannad so much I couldn't watch past the first couple of episodes.

I have previously professed to hating Clannad so much I couldn't watch past the first couple of episodes.

Damn, that sure is a hot take

I just block the people that post them, and the sub it's from. I almost never see that shit now.

I do the same but there so fucking many, it seems. Why are people so into the cartoon porn? It's fucking weird.

Yeah, there seems to be some disconnect with those people. I look at the people's history before blocking them, and the ones posting that content often have some mental health issues.

Probably resulting from an inability to find healthy love or the feeling of being loved, as most mental health issues seem to stem from.

Love is all we need, and when it's lacking, shit gets weird.

NSFW has become code for porn, effectively. My friend and I use NSFO for 'not porn, maybe not even nudity, but not necessarily appropriate for the office'. Maybe that's what we need. A second filter.

I see plenty of memes labeled NSFW. I sometimes assume they're porn and keep scrolling. Sometimes I recognise the image even through the filter and I'll click on it. I find this very confusing. It's not a bad idea to have two different terms. But I feel that that might get lost in the sauce as the term has already gone critical mass. People will probably start to use them interchangeably.

Yes, they should be. For the same exact reason anything that is taboo but socially acceptable but definitely unprofessional should be. Real boobs, cartoon boobs, it doesn't bother me at all but it makes me very much less likely to browse lemmy in a public setting. Setting morals completely aside, if you want this platform to thrive, you'll have to be compassionate to the consumers of it, the user base. The community can definitely make this thing not usable if they want to. It's about being practical.

Yes, you could get in trouble at work for viewing it just like you said a picture of a real woman would be

Why do these anime girls always look like they're in their teens? Extremely creepy.

Because the target audience is usually teens.

I recently discovered Korean manga.

A lot of comics and protagonists are college age or in their 20s, compared to Japan's 10 yo saving the world.

The most optimistic explanation I have been able to arrive at is that they are less intimidating for fragile male egos. However, I concur wholeheartedly: Extremely creepy.

This whole problem would be solved by adding more tags as per this proposal: https://github.com/LemmyNet/rfcs/pull/4 and enabling more filtering.

but @dessalines@lemmy.ml and @nutomic@lemmy.ml didn't look at it for months and I don't know what is their stance on it. The dev that wanted to implement it doesn't want to spend energy to push forward for a green light.

I have no idea why is this such a debate.

NSFW is such a loaded term.

There is no need for any "green light", if there was a problem with the rfc we would have said so from the beginning. From what I can tell the rfc is not completed yet, and when it's completed someone still needs to step up to implement it. Even my own rfc which was finished months ago is still not merged and not implemented.

What would need to be done to complete it?

Well someone has to write the code.

I know someone that is willing to implement this feature, but they are waiting for merge of rfc to open a Pull Request with initial implementation.

As I understand the RFCs are for defining scope and design requirements for specific feature. And when the design is finalised RFC is merged. Then someone opens a PR to implement it.

If you were imagining some other process it would be beneficial to acknowledge change of development phase from designing to implementing.

P.S. The readme in the repo is supporting my view.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. We are currently making some last improvements to the RFC, and it should get merged within the next days.

block .ml, problem solved =D

No, that doesn't solve the problem. You have to have a merge accepted by the owners of the repo, unless someone wants to start a new fork and maintain that.

Yes. Problem is that NSFW has lost its original meaning to a lot of people. NSFW was originally to hide things that might be controversial to be visible on your screen in a workplace, so it should be fairly conservative. Beachwear would 100% not be safe to look at in a work environment.

But now a lot of places are using it to determine what is safe to look at not in front of your boss, but in front of your kids or in public. That is a much different thing. NSFW flags should not be used to restrict kids from seeing it, just your boss. There needs to be a separate flag for hiding things from kids. And because social norms are different in different societies, there should be even more granularity in the flags. Nudity is just one thing that is NSFW.

NSFW should be reserved for blocking things that I don't want to suddenly appear on my screen when I'm browsing the Internet on my break at work when I'm allowed to browse the Internet, but it wouldn't be good for a naked picture to show up on my screen suddenly.

When browsing in All or similar, there's a non-zero chance of coming across things that can be offensive, explicit, or disgusting. You shouldn't encounter anything pornographic or where people die or get horribly injured, but that is my only expectation.

I browse in thumbnail view for that reason. It's enough to see if I want to see a full image, if it's not something I want to see, I didn't get hit full blast by it, and if it's something I don't want people around to see at that moment, it's much harder for them to see it and faster to scroll past.

When you select a sort that pulls from every community, it's you asking to see everything. Death, injury, and private parts are about the only things the bulk of society can agree are at least somewhat offensive, so those are the only things you should expect to see blocked by a NSFW filter. Lewd, gross, and offensive are still free to pass, for better or worse. That's the Internet culture has existed for most of its existence and feels pretty universal in my experience.

If the NSFW limit was put on "image of a woman wearing shorts and sports bra", would you run to shut down the break room TV when they showed such obscene NSFW things like the Olympic games with their skimpy track and field and beach volleyball outfits? All of those communities would obviously need to be marked NSFW on Lemmy too.

And while NSFW indeed does come from the words "Not safe for work", it isn't "blur everything that wouldn't be appropriate for my coworkers or boss to see me browse during work time".
Getting caught watching episodes of My Little Pony would be pretty inappropriate and embarrassing during working hours as well.

And while NSFW indeed does come from the words “Not safe for work”, it isn’t “blur everything that wouldn’t be appropriate for my coworkers or boss to see me browse during work time”.

Why not????? That's surely exactly what NSFW should mean.

Your "there's no clear boundary between appropriate and inappropriate" is bogus. You could use the same argument to remove NSFW tagging altogether or allow CSM on the platform. It's not a useful or sensible contribution.

Nudity, gore, violence - explicit materials. Stuff you wouldn't be allowed to plaster on a giant billboards in the middle of the city or on the side of your office building or have run on daytime TV in the breakroom. If an image of a clothed female is NSFW then obviously a man wearing nothing but a towel in a shower is as well.

You start making a list of everything everyone takes offence into and finds inappropriate and you end up with a list with literally everything on it. Some people in this thread have used "If I couldn't use it as a wallpaper at work, it should be NSFW". Plenty of people would find this picture absolutely disgusting and inappropriate, so should it and everything like it be NSFW tagged as well?

That's the same argument again. It claims that something is sometimes hard to do therefore should never be done. It claims that some people might disagree therefore no decision can be made. It's fallacious.

Some people would get in trouble at work if they were caught browsing Lemmy. Period. Therefore every post, and the entire website, is NSFW.

You define it that broadly and it's meaningless.

There's a world of difference between "some people" and "most people" that you're ignoring. Obviously the NSFW tag is useless to people who aren't allowed on their phones in their break time, but that's absolutely no reason to exclude scantily clad people from the not suitable for work tag.

I'll go with, if you are browsing an Anime related channel, then that's not to be NSFW'd.
When x-Posting, it would be NSFW.

But I don't use Lemmy or social media at the workplace anyway, so what would I know

CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

when they showed such obscene NSFW things like the Olympic games with their skimpy track and field and beach volleyball outfits?

You seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of context

Did you look at the image?

She's not being sexual or suggestive.

Are you serious? She's mostly naked. Look at the body language and facial expression.

And it's just the woman in a void, unlike the Olympics where they're people doing stuff.

If a smile and blushing is suggestive to you, I suggest that you never leave your house. Too many temptations out there my guy.

And if a bra and shorts qualifies as "mostly naked" then I suggest that you don't leave your house between the months of May and October.

I see your other reply below, so I don't know if this is before or after the other one (which is an honest take).

Good luck explaining that to HR or trying to come up with a non-creepy reason for viewing that on your computer at work.

Solution: Don't look at Lemmy at work.

I don't look at Facebook, use Google for non-work needs, and I don't use social media.

I check my email but honestly I shouldn't even do that.

I work in IT. They can see everything you type, everything on your screen, and can silently record video and audio. It's not your computer, it's theirs, and they are completely within their rights under the law.

My guy. Do I have to explain to how "I was reading about the olympics" is a whole other category than "I was looking at anime girls"? Maybe it shouldn't be, but that's not the world we live in.

Where do you draw the line?

The platform has its own governance.
Personally, I feel like social media at work is inappropriate.

If you're watching the Summer Olympics, and only watch the events where they're scantily clad (and commonly underage), maybe not watch that at work either.

As far as the tag? If it's not showing nipples, isn't sexual in nature, or suggestive, I personally don't see why it should unless you go back and puritanically apply the tag anything anyone could be offended. And at that point - what do we have left?

Look, I can't control what people define as sexual. It is possible to block communities. Tailor it to fit your preferences. Heck why not make a second profile that is specific to when you're not at work? And one that blocks out all but the news and wholesome content for work?

I don't see why this should be a one-fits-all process. We're trying that out right now, with the supreme court. (Assuming that you live in the US)

Honestly I lost track of what the original context was (irony) and was just mad that people are like "no, no, half naked anime girls are totally on the same level as Olympic athletes"

It's up to the community what they want to mark as NSFW. I personally think stuff like the linked image are on the far side of NSFW.

Eh I will admit there are places where wearing a bra in public is odd and sexual there are also places like Florida where women were bras out in grocery stores

Yes. All academic points aside, it's not socially-acceptable to view stuff like this in public.

I would have no problem if that popped up in my feed while I was in a public place.

That said, I don't think it would be safe for work, so the nsfw would apply. But I would not be browsing Lemmy at work either.

Having looked at your referenced image. No. She is appropriately clothed for summer.

In certain states in the US, a woman can choose to be topless anywhere a man can be. This woman is not topless.

Also maybe not visit Lemmy or any social media at work.

As far as on the bus? I guarantee that there's a woman on the bus in similar atire off it's summer.

Also, Americans are usually more prude, especially when it comes to the female body, than what is healthy (I understand that you would not want to make an attempt at social change starting in the workplace though).

As maybe the main culprit behind such content, I can comment.

I'd love to err on the side of caution. Unfortunately that isn't how the NSFW toggle is used, and erring on the side of caution any more than necessary comes with drawbacks in terms of post visibility and community growth.

Posts like the one you linked perform orders of magnitude better when not marked NSFW, which means they reach more people who want to see them when un-tagged, than didn't want to see them.

And tagging them, in fact achieves the opposite.

This is because people scroll past content marked NSFW regardless of what it is. Because they can't see what it is. Except when they are looking for porn.

So while I didn't stop using the NSFW tag, I pushed the needle a bit and stopped marking everything even slightly revealing as NSFW "just in case" because it was literally hiding it from the people who wanted to see it, and leaving just the porn enthusiasts to check the actual images, who'd then down-vote it because it wasn't actually porn.

I am myself completely uninterested in actual pornographic content on Lemmy, yet as someone who doesn't mind it, I actually do not hide NSFW content, and even disable blurring it by default.

Because the binary tagging of NSFW is utterly useless as a tool for curating away content I do not want to see, as a SHIT-TON of content I DO want to see would go with it.

Instead I use the list view in Thunder with its small thumbnails, making the occasional porn very difficult to spot over my shoulder, but allowing me to much more properly vet what posts I open and view in full size.

I am fairly certain that a lot of the people who engage with my many "moe" communities, are, like me, quite uninterested in actual explicit content. As such they do not engage with posts marked NSFW, or perhaps even disable it entirely on their accounts.

The NSFW toggle isn't enough, and its purpose and exact threshold varies wildly depending on your sensibilities.

This content isn't porn, yet if I run my communities as if it is, they don't get traction.

If I run my communities like they're for porn, they'll mostly be frequented by people who post and look for exactly that. But they won't fit in because I don't allow nudity, and the stuff I do allow isn't the kind anyone settles down to actually get off to, despite some of it being arousing. So, my communities don't belong on that side of the fediverse, but at the same time they don't entirely belong on the SFW side of a lot of people's feeds either.

Yet, to reach the people like myself, but who unlike me don't make the insane effort of checking every NSFW post to see if it's not porn, that's where they have to exist.

I'll reluctantly back you up since I feel like you're right, and while I also have eyes over my back at times, I don't mind those in-between images because yes, I'm not going to click the NSFW ones in front of my family but I can easily shrug a half naked anime girl or something because it's the Internet and that exists. And besides, I can appreciate a well drawn image, lewd or otherwise.

Plus, while I've got a young daughter, but if any one actually goes outside, you're going to see worse just on a billboard somewhere. Or if you're terminally online, you'll also see it in ads. As far as I'm concerned it's about as hard to avoid as someone saying fuck. I'll just have that conversation when I get there.

Sorry those who have stuck up jobs, though. The ones most likely to punish you because of an image are the ones you should most slack off during! Fuck those people, I hope we can move on to a tiered censorship system so everyone can just be happy and not fired over bullshit.

hey, just wanted to ask, how on earth do you maintain your rate of posting??

I threw together a helper tool using python. Whenever possible, it automates all the various steps of creating posts, such as crediting the artist, including links to their socials, shrinking large image files, uploading the image to a host...

It also doesn't actually post at the same rate that I find things to post. I was having to stop myself or I would go on spammy posting sprees when doing it manually, because I usually find hundreds of pieces worth sharing at a time. The tool lets me queue up all those posts with very little of the tedium of copy pasting links and artist names, and instead of me making a hundred posts all at once, it spreads them out over time.

I think this is a good conversion to have. I enjoy images of women, but everyone doesn't. I also don't feel it's fair to compare these images to porn and play morality police.

It makes sense to break NSFW into a handful of tags and allow more granular control. The problem historically was that the number of tags kept growing and became hard to classify.

The number of tags wouldn't be much of an issue, but then it comes down to the OP to tag appropriately. Even with generic NSFW filter turned on, I still occasionally see genitals in my feed.

We could allow users to tag, but I see brigading and other abuses possible here. Appointing power users also might work, but that has its own list of issues. That also would mean that all this information would need to synch with the post.

I vote for "NEP" to be the tag in between SFW and NSFW. It stands for "Not Exactly Porn"

It's for things you could still get off to and would likely get you in trouble at work, but hopefully wouldn't get you fired

I feel like, if done right, we could have a system of tags we could assign a comfort level. One could select the tags that they don't want to see, and possibly set their preferences to see what they want. Maybe a slider from absolutely not to always ok, and then move things as they see fit.

Done right, a person can control the content as they prefer.

Implemented poorly, and we have 4chan at the reigns of the MPAA.

I like the idea, but getting everyone to add the tags would be a nightmare unless the culture majorly shifts in favor of adding them

I think some communities might suggest tags, but you wouldn't be able to catch still of them. We don't have the resources for object recognition, but that is all I can think of for a fourth option.

Maybe a forced pop-up whenever you submit content. I know people are gonna hate it, but putting the option right in front of their face makes them far more aware of it.

If you wanted to make it optional, you could allow users to filter untagged posts. I think that with a combo of the popup could work to make it a thing people actually used.

Basically what were discussing is a less crap version of reddit tags, hashtags, forum tags, etc. The big problem with those, especially on reddit, is getting people to use them and use them properly. Every sub handled them differently (hell, on the 2 subs I modded, both used them differently and I ran both of them). Some subs let users apply, some were mods only, some were bots, etc. The other problem is getting people to use them properly. Hashtags aren't a bad system, but easily abused (look at Tumblr tags. They're essentially useless half the time).

Maybe community assigned tags could work. Have the poster tag from the start, then allow users to report if it should have a different level. It seems like a good idea, but I'd want to have something like a trust score behind it to filter errant reports and trolls, which I don't think is currently something lemmy supports, but idk.

Anyways, just throwing out ideas

Not bad ideas, but the forced pop-up asserts that there must be something sensitive about a user's post. I think maybe providing a few categories of sensitivity with their own drop-down boxes to select from.

These are terrible options, but for sexual they could be: Suggestive - from making sexual motions or comments to our model above Nudity - non-pornographic, but nipples or genitals are seen Porn

Violence seems to be a major category. Now sure about how to break it down

Gore Minor Injury Medical procedure Violent - these are bad options, I said

Politics is something people complain about, but I don't know if that should be considered sensitivity or if we should attempt to break it down.

Abuse This one is hard because by only selecting over category you rule others out. Is my abuse less than yours?

Probably yes. As long as it's something that would reasonably not be ok to watch in public/family/work environment, it's always better to be on the cautious side.

There's a setting to just not blur NSFW tagged content, for people that are not concerned.

As a side note, if there can be a sort of tag that denotes things like half naked anime characters, I would be the first one to permanently filter them out of my feed because they contribute absolute zero value to my experience here. Not trying to be a downer but it's just not for me. I'm glad there are people who enjoy that and can have that.

While I don't really see that specific image as nsfw, you can point that out to the posters to mark it as such; or you can block communities or posters that you don't think adhere to it consistently.

Edit: Neptunia series do have their fair share of fanservice as in their original artwork, so you could feel free to block that community

No. That's just a fully clothed character. Any workplace where that would be considered "NSFW" is the kind of place where getting caught browsing Lemmy at all is NSFW.

Counterpoint I have a workplace where browsing Lemmy would not be NSFW but I don't want to deal with someone being judgemental if they happen to look over my shoulder.

That's a you problem, not a content problem, though.

Are we obligated to mark SpongeBob SquarePants as NSFW because you're worried co-workers are going to be judgemental if they caught you watching it at work?

Getting cross with people who want to use the NSFW tag is making a you problem into an other people problem. If you don't want anything blurred, change your settings and stop belittling people's perspectives who want to use the feature.

It's not belittling anyone. It's about having an actual line and not making NSFW into a meaningless term.

Seriously, if you define "NSFW" as anything ANYONE won't want to be caught doing at work, all of Lemmy is NSFW. Your personal definition of "I might get embarrassed by it" is equally meaningless and, again, would result in the entire website simply labeling everything NSFW.

Oh, what if I work in a conservative workplace and don't want to get caught browsing a liberal sub? Guess everything liberal or left leaning is NSFW!

Oh wait, I'd be embarrassed by people knowing I have relationship problems, so any relationship advice is now NSFW.

I don't want my co-workers to think I'm a dumbass, so anything like NoStupidQuestions or ELI5 is also inherently NSFW.

You want to broaden the NSFW term to the point of being meaningless, and have everyone else moderate their posts to your ill-defined benefit. It's so meaningless that the tag may as well not exist at that point.

No, you're the one making it meaningless. If something's not suitable for work, tag it NSFW. Scantily clad people are clearly not suitable for work. Simple.

Yeah this guy is making the most ridiculous slippery slope argument here. What context is there for you to be viewing a half-naked anime girl at work? It just makes you look like a creep. Viewing political posts is hardly comparable.

If you want to start your path down the reddit rabbit hole, yeah. Else, no

I would personally adhere to US Beachwear rules unless mods specify otherwise.

  1. No nipples, exceptions being for explicitly male, of photographs of cultures that generally do not cover breasts, or certain artistic or medical references.

  2. No pubic region that reveals any genitalia or anus.

  3. There is no third rule, literally anything goes, including the image you were wondering about.

So while some people might object to a lot of the content we see, I don't personally think it is problematic. Especially when your instance has images collapsed by default, except for thumbnails.

  1. Gratuirous inages of children not relevamt to the plot

Those don't require an NSFW tag because they're actually strictly illegal throughout most of the world. You should report those regardless of if it's got the correct tags, if not to the moderators then to the authorities.

This is a weird thread... Lots of people really give a shit about what others think about the content they consume. There's also a lot of strange presumptions about people who watch anime and how it's creepy when adults watch it. If you were just described above, maybe you should reevaluate some things.

If you would get in trouble for this image on your phone at work, then you really should not be on Lemmy at work. I'm sure there are perfectly acceptable threads for your workspace on Lemmy, but then again, people used to read the articles in playboy magazine. Also, the example image is only sexual if you sexualize it, which you are doing by saying it should be marked nsfw. If the local news stations are comfortable showing gymnasts and swimmers and volleyball players in their respective uniforms, then why should this be any different? Lastly, if that drawing is making you uncomfortable, I don't know how to help you because this is so so so incredibly far from the worst content you can find on this site. Maybe you shouldn't be on here at all if that's the case.

It's only weird if you make it weird and this whole thread is making it weird.

you were just described above, maybe you should reevaluate some things.

Error: Infinite Loop

People who want to watch NSFW links can click the links

People who want NSFW stuff in their feed can tick "Show NSFW content" and untick "Blur NSFW content". There's no reason to argue with other people for wanting to use the NSFW tag for exactly what it was designed and named for.

Yes, there is.

Should XY be tagged as NSFW is not asking about if the tag should exist on certain topics (that's indeed something you can ignore with your own settings) but about if people should be forced to flag stuff as NSFW. And I refuse to tag stuff as NSFW just because I can imagine someone, somehow, in some rare context wanting that tag. Because by then it lost all meaning and we should do an "Yes this is safe for 4 years olds"-tag instead.

I claim that it's quite clear that this is not suitable for work. HR are not going to get cross with me for browsing memes in my lunch break on my phone, but if this comes up, it's clearly not OK, and I don't think I'm at all unusual in having a work environment like that.

I'm just asking that we try to use Not Suitable For Work to mean not suitable for work. You might feel that my workplace is weird, but that's not what you're arguing, so I think you're kind of missing the point of the tag. Yay internet freedom and all that, but tagging something that's very likely to get someone in trouble at work as NSFW is just being a considerate person. That's all. People are still free to see it, but it gives them the freedom to choose to filter it out and use their phone when they're on a break at work.

Again, I think you're on the wrong site at work then. Lemmy is not suitable for your workplace and you're asking us to make it suitable for your workplace.

You can say I shouldn't be on social media at work as much as you like, but until you're writing my pay cheques, it doesn't mean anything. We lead different lives, you and I. I'm sorry that your work doesn't allow you down time at lunch, but try not to hate on me for working at a place that does.

All I'm asking is that folks use the Not Suitable For Work tag on things that are not suitable for work. I just don't see that as a particularly big or bad thing to ask.

What makes you so keen to see this stuff at work anyway?

I didn't say that. And I am completely allowed on social media at work. But that image wouldn't get me any heat for being on my phone. You are not the authority on what is and is not suitable for all work places and I'm glad that's the case because your aim is to create a more censored internet. Just because you are sexualizing that anime woman, does not mean we all need to.

But the NSFW tag isn't censorship, it's filtering. You can turn off NSFW filtering in your settings. You can unblur it all. J

ust because your workplace is happy for you to browse scantily clad women, doesn't mean most workplaces do. We're not all the same as you.

Scantily clad? What are you 80? Woman regularly walk about in public wearing little more than I'd what is depicted. I'm sure you think they're all hussies too dontcha? Such a harlot that cartoon woman. You're not winning here. Like I said, the image is only sexual if you sexualize it. You're the one with the problem here.

Women can wear what they like on the beach, but they would absolutely be sent home if they came into my workplace dressed like that, it would be deemed highly inappropriate, and I can't be looking at pictures of all that on my phone in my lunch break, it would similarly be deemed inappropriate.

I don't dress formally at work because of my own preferences for clothing, or because I sexualise people who don't, I do it because my workplace has rules about that.

Memes, yes, midriffs, no. That is all. I don't get why you find a formal work environment like that so incomprehensible.

You’re the one with the problem here.

Yes. One easily and simply solved with the Not Suitable For Work tag. No need to get all cross and condemnatory about it, just use the tag as designed and we all win. We can filter and curate them whenever we like to whatever extent matches our own preferences and situational demands.

Sure? I'm not arguing against that?

Sorry, I could have been clearer that I was agreeing with you!

Oh, lol. Well that goes both ways : I misunderstand posts fairly often =) Sorry!

The difference between this and swimming attire is context. Seeing a swimming competition on the communal TV at work doesn't make you look like a creep but checking out drawings of a half-naked anime girl on your personal device does.

There is no social media that would consider summer clothes NSFW, you are taking it too seriously, it just means "not porn".

My solution is to have multiple profiles. Block that stuff on your SFW profile and not on your NSFW profile.

Half naked? Shes literally wearing a top and bottoms. Yall need to relax

Still clearly not safe for work.

Doesn't really seem like it. It's a belly button. It's not even a provocative or suggestive pose.

Try showing it off at work. Set it as the wallpaper on your work computer and see how "safe for work" it is then.

This would hardly raise an eyebrow. Again, it's a belly button.

The point is that if you are seeking consensus on this around the most conservative interpretation of the concept, you will likely not find it. You are responsible for curating your own internet experience.

Work culture, especially in the US, is very conservative. The fact that you don't understand that it's better to be more conservative here regardless of consensus is astounding. Understand that the NSFW flag is a curation tool. You seem to think it's a form of censorship. It's purpose is to deal with the ten per cent on the far end of the spectrum who would take offence. And if your retort is that the majority shouldn't have to accommodate the minority, that's just a terminally online opinion that fails to recognise the fragility of real human interaction. It's analogous to saying that bridge engineers shouldn't have to accommodate the heaviest ten per cent of vehicles when figuring out what its maximum load should be when accomodating "most" vehicles is enough and that those vehicles should either lighten their load or find an alternate route.

I'm not going to argue with you over this because I don't believe you have the foundational understanding of why things are what they are.

I work in the US. This is a belly button. Yes I am quite skeptical that a picture of an anime character would course any fuss just about anywhere.

You also don't have to show your phone to your coworkers. What's astounding is that you apparently cannot conduct yourself in public.

I just came in my snuggie, thanks a lot

No 100%

There is no NSFW about that picture IMO

I can't see why any reasonable workplace wouldn't even allow one to have a poster like that hanging there

I can't see why any reasonable workplace wouldn't even allow one to have a poster like that hanging there

If someone hung a poster like that at the office I would question their social understanding.

Why?

I dont care if someone hangs a poster of their dog, their child, their partner or ozzy osbourne, unless the workspace is exposed to customers. Then i expect that there must be guidelines. I dont see how anime figures could offend anyone and i dont see how OP calls them half naked when they are fully clothed.

All I’m saying is that a person hanging a picture of an anime chick in their cubicle is far enough outside the norm of office behavior that said person probably doesn’t have a good sense of social cues. There’s absolutely a difference between pictures of your family and pictures of your cartoon waifu.

Maybe companies limit their options by establishing and maintaining a norm of office behaviour. Maybe letting people be people as long as they contribute with what they can and what they are good at, is enough to demand of your employees

Maybe companies limit their options by establishing and maintaining a norm of office behaviour.

Maybe. I don’t think those norms are enforced from above or anything. It’s one of those “read the room” type things. And that’s all I’m saying. Someone who would have a scantily clad anime poster in their cubicle at the engineering company I work at has failed to read the room. And thus I question their social understanding.

I also feel like it’s the sort of thing that makes a workplace less comfortable for some people. Like, I can imagine a woman working in the very male-heavy software and engineering departments who could find such posters off-putting. Just like it would be tacky to put up posters of a supermodel in a bikini on a muscle car.

Let’s maybe just not objectify people at work, you know?

Gives me the ick, like some guy with a pornstar poster. If you can't even go to work without having a sexualised image constantly in your eye line, you need to work on your priorities.

But isn't that their problem? Why bother what their personal priorities are?

Because they're working with other people?

So you have a problem with a persons priorities, based on their preferences when it comes to office decorations, because they are "working with people"?

As long as those preferences and priorities do not interfere with this persons performance at work, I don't see why you or anybody should have a say on this really.

Simply put, it's sleezy. I wouldn't want to hang around someone like that. Titillating anime pictures are on the spectrum of a mechanic's skimpy calendar. They've prioritised sexual gratification over social decorum, which the choice in of itself, I feel would make women uncomfortable. What kind of guy does that?

There's clearly a limit here, I'm sure you'd agree, perhaps your line is simply further back. Hardcore pornography is probably out, no? A fleshlight? A poster celebrating 9/11? Any number of these things wouldn't interfere with my ability to work, but I certainly wouldn't want to go near that person. You come to work to work, not to get a horn on.

Maybe expecting a community about women with huge tits and jiggle physics to not be a little risqué is the problem.

I browse by active and get this in my feed without having interest in it, so it's not just people specifically visiting certain communities.

Subscribed exists for a reason.

I don't want to live in a bubble for one but, more importantly, a new user will not have subscriptions.

Then that's the risk you take browsing unfiltered content. Especially on Lemmy, you are never going to get this consensus on how to tage content. So if you are in a place where you can't see sensitive content, then stick to more filtered content. This is like day 1 internet stuff.

Again, this fails to cover both the cases of someone who is checking out mbin/lemmy for the first time as well as someone who does decide it's maybe more than a sketchy site and doesn't have subscriptions yet.

Yes, and it also fails to realise that you can turn off NSFW filtering if you want in settings. Settings exist for a reason. If you want to view lemmy just in your subscribed communities that's fine. If you want to turn off NSFW filtering, that's fine. If you want to blur it all, that's fine. You do you. Fix the settings how you like, but there's no need for folks to hate on us for wanting to use the Not Safe For Work filter as it's designed.

The OP is literally about the images not being flagged as NSFW.

Ah sorry, maybe I replied to the wrong post. I agreed with your point!

So block that community and you wont see posts from it.

I mean it should be fairly obvious, but sometimes a person is at home while browsing, and might like to see these. Other times they are at work while browsing and could actually get into trouble for viewing them

This is about the "not safe for work" tag, isn't it?

If you wanna browse at work, use a different account then? As others said, 'NSFW' is applied differently by different people (I don't think the example provided is NSFW, it's skimpy, but not lewd), at some point you have to have some self responsibility.

and sometimes you have to accept that other people want to use the Not Suitable For Work filter as designed. If you don't like it, you can turn it off in settings.

As others said, 'NSFW' is applied differently by different people

But I think it would be an unusual workplace that would find this suitable to be on my phone screen in the canteen.

And it would depend on the workplace too, there's a lot of ambiguity, which is why you should just be responsible. If there's a risk an anime tummy might appear on your screen, then just don't browse on here at work.

Alternatively, just tag things not suitable for work as NSFW. Simple.

I mean, I do for a lot of porn and some other communities (I'm not personally into anime at all, so those are usually among them). There are still two issues remaining:

  • someone may be browsing and, through no fault of their own, have such a thing shown that can get them in trouble with their job or other community
  • it can impact first impressions of new and potential users who may just give everything a skip thinking it's only some shady/porn site.

I mean, congrats on finding content outside your bubble then. If you don't like it, use the tools available to you.