'Eco-friendly' paper and bamboo straws contain PFAS chemicals, study finds
Amarok@kbin.social to 
nbcnews.com
Researchers found low concentrations of so-called forever chemicals in various "eco-friendly" straws, raising doubts about whether they're an appropriate alternative.
Disposable products are gonna have problems to keep them cheap. The solution to straws is non-dispossble straws, always was.
Also this is still a silly topic, straws won't save the planet.
Or stop using straws all together. Cups/lids can be made differently, so they are more like a sippy cup. You don’t NEED straws. Humans are totally capable of drinking directly from a cup, even without a special lid.
Single use bendy straws were literally invented to help keep bedbound and other disabled people alive.
Which is the only legitimate use case, but I bet >99% of straws produced aren't used for that.
And you can buy bent straws in multiple materials, which are not intended to be disposable.
But no one is going to make straws to serve only 1% of the population. Accessibility features need to become mainstream (or forced into effect by the government) for it to actually benefit people with disabilities.
Everyone needs to use wheelchairs or wheelchair bound people can't benefit! What a silly argument. Costs will be higher, but the niche will be filled if it's needed.
Anyone can buy a wheelchair...
And wheelchair ramps were made legally required in many places.
Could be declared a medical product.
So US hospitals can charge $37 for a single straw?
No, no straws for anyone, and take away their special ramps too. It's all or nothing because that's the only way my argument works. Color spectrum, exceptions? All I see is black and white.
To be fair, drinks with ice in them are still miles easier to drink with a straw.
No doubt. But something with a smaller hole in it, like the newer Starbucks (I’m sorry I hate using them as an example) cold cups works fine with ice too. Hell, something shaped like the top of a soda can would do it, no more difficult to make than the straw accepting lids, and then no straws.
Those stsrbucks cups are fairly thick, like more than the amount of plastic in a straw thick. Is that really better overall?
Did you read what I said? I said I hate using Starbucks as an example. It just happened to be the first thing that came to mind, that everyone would know what I was talking about. Yes, Starbucks sucks, and so do their plastic products, BUT as I said, that STYLE is what I was talking about. In fact, I said something more like the top of a soda can would be good.
The style requires thicker plastic.
Not really. Everyone seems to forget we used to make things out of shit other than plastic for some reason.
They’re not difficult to make, but they do require more plastic. Probably about the same amount of additional plastic as a straw, really. It’s funny to me when people only consider part of the equation and not the whole thing.
As far as I’m concerned, plastic lids/cups should go away too. I’m simply pointing out that straws are useless, and if anyone cared enough, it would be pretty simple to resolve the straw issue.
Calling straws useless is a bit much. They’re usually excessive, but not useless. Ask your grandmother who can no longer drink from a glass properly. Or a quadriplegic.
There’s nuance in everything, my friend. You’d serve the world better to acknowledge it rather than speak in absolutes.
so, people who existed before the advent of the plastic straw just all died of dehydration? GTFO of here with that shit.
Yes, straws are convenient, and can be helpful to people with certain disabilities. However, that's a small subset of the population, and they can use reuasble straws, if they need them. Plastic/disposable straws are useless.
This isn’t even a fair argument. The subset of people I refer to who benefit from straws would have had a whole host of different things working against them pre-straws. Sort of a silly strawman because that’s not my point. I honestly think you just forgot to qualify a previous statement by emphasizing that you think plastic straws are useless and not all straws are useless. I was responding to your blanket statement that straws are useless.
I agree that disposable straws are useless, no disagreement there. It’s why I own metal ones. I disagree that straws themselves are useless. They are useful.
This comment thread is about disposable/plastic straws. I have been talking about getting rid of plastic/disposable straws in every comment. I never implied I was talking about reusable. I didn’t know I needed to be so pedantic.
Jesus man, ok. Let’s get pedantic about this. I’m sick, I’ve got time.
Parent comment of this thread is:
So, on the table are both forms of straws. In fact, the immediate response to the parent comment leads with
A few comments later you say
To which I call you out and point out that they do, in fact, have a use. Instead of just conceding that they do have a use for a subset of the population, and aren’t totally useless, you pivot to disposable.
In context of this conversation, you absolutely need to qualify if you are talking about all straws or just disposable straws. That’s literally the conversation being had. You just seem to not like that someone pointed out a flaw to your logic. It’s fine to have someone offer different perspectives that cause you to refine your position. Nothing wrong with that. That was my whole point about acknowledging nuance.
You just replaced a straw with a lid.
cups already had lids
Not in the restaurants where straws are used.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but they already have plastic lids on them, which are bad, but no extra with my suggestion.
If it's in a paper/plastic cup you can pop the lid off and squeeze the cup to make a pitcher-like shape at the rim. Keeps the ice in and makes for easy drinking. I don't see why we can't just make all disposable lids like coffee cups, honestly. They even make ones that close to avoid spilling
I just bought like a dozen metal straws that are in rotation. Also, coffee cup lids require slightly more plastic to mold. You’re not really saving too much with that trade-off when you think about it. Metal straws work great.
I have some metal straws I keep in my car, I was speaking more to people who don't have or use them or forgot them and don't want to use a disposable straw. I agree that metal straws are the way to go. We honestly need to normalize and allow people to bring their own bottles/cups/whathaveyou into restaurants over disposable products. They should just charge a flat rate for beverages and call it a day. The profit margins on drinks are absurd so the restaurant will still be making plenty of money even if someone brings one of those huge 64 oz bottles in. They could even rig soda fountains to dispense pre-portioned amounts so that the restaurant maintains it's margins. That tech has been around for ages, I'm sure it would be easy to retrofit fountains that dont already have it
Woah woah woah, will someone please think of the cocaine users?
People have been using money forever, they’ll be fine.
That's gross. Paper straws are the way 🤌
Ivory for an extra dose of cruelty!
Quick edit: do not use paper straws for cocaine. Porous material will absorb your product. Also heat your surface before chopping, to make the product as fine as possible.
Stop making it complicated. Just line it up on someone's ass and get your nose down in it like god intended.
That one’s checked off my bucket list, and I cannot be more happy.
People carrying cash now are worrying.
(I'm kidding, though I don't carry much anymore. Enough for some gas or something if there's an emergency and my card doesn't work for whatever reason.)
Straws are an accessibility need for some humans, not everyone is actually physically capable of drinking directly from a cup.
That’s fine, they can have their own non disposables for their own needs. We do NOT need to keep polluting the planet (yeah I know there are plenty of other ways we do it) with EVERYTHING being disposable.
Single use bendy straws were literally invented to help keep bedbound and other disabled people alive. There are also many reasons people can't use different alternatives.
You personally not using something, doesn't mean others don't, and to deny access to a literal lifeline for the sake of 0.003% of the plastics in the ocean (literally a drop in an ocean) because it makes you feel better and requires zero effort or sacrifice (from you), instead of actually acting to resolve the problem (like being anti-capitalist rather than just trying to apply band aids to its symptoms) is not only gross and ableist, but also a colossal counterproductive waste of time.
There is a lack of non-plastic materials that are suitable for every disability while also being affordable. This chart lists common problems with non-plastic straws for some people.
Complete plastic straw bans have a poor reward to risk ratio. It fixes almost nothing while putting some disabled people in danger. Just make it mandatory for restaurants and fast food to only give them out on request instead of by default and that will cut down on a huge portion of the straw waste while keeping them available for those who need them.
I'm not in disagreement regarding moving away from disposable goods, especially plastic based ones. Just trying to point out the problem isn't as cut and dry as you suggested. Straws are popular partly because they are more accessible so any solution that involves getting rid of them should take that need into account.
No, straw are popular because that’s what we have always been given, and people want convenience. Yeah, a small subset of people may need that assistance, but let’s not pretend that most people are being altruistic.
My mother is up there in age, every time she drinks from a cup she ends up spilling it on herself. Im not saying she NEEDS straws, but it sure makes it easier on her.
I wouldn't say that nobody ever should use straws, but there are definitely a lot of people who use straws even when it's not necessary, like when they're just sitting in a restaurant eating.
I can agree that having a straw is easier for takeaway eaten on the go or in the car too, for example.
Costco food court lids come to mind. They have a hole near the side where you can either use a straw or drink directly.
I've never seen those in person, but after an image search, yeah, exactly. I only used starbucks as an example because they are everywhere, and most people have seen them before.
How are you going to drink bubble tea without a straw?
Same way I already do, tear the plastic “lid” off and dump it down my throat.
I too enjoy gargling little black balls
How do you get pearls that are at the bottom of the cup? You drink the tea first and then use a spoon for pearls? Bubble tea requires a straw to properly enjoy. Otherwise you can't get a mixture of both tea and pearls.
Swirl the cup? You can get them evenly dispersed evenly pretty easily.
Have you ever had bubble tea?
Yes, I have, have you ever used your brain?
That’s an incredibly stupid suggestion.
Enjoy the deluge of balls.
I started making my own boba and I got a set of big glass boba straws.
Metal straws have gotten very popular in Taiwan, the home of bubble tea. It's not that inconvenient to take a metal straw or other reusable straw with you.
I'm not going to keep a metal straw on me for the odd time I want bubble tea.
Totally ignored his last point.
Slurpie with icecream would like a word
As I said, I hate using Starbucks as an example, but they have drinks that are roughly the same consistency, and they are fine to drink out of their newer lids sans straws.
No
No but the plastic ones actually did harm the plant.
Yes, but some people actually depend on them to live, and considering jut how little of the plastics they made up, the crusade to get rid of them is nothing but a superficial feel good endeavour that has absolutely zero impact on the crisis we face, and just leaves disabled people lacking access to a literal life line.
It can't have zero impact if you replace 50-300 million straws per day in de US alone. Could we do more? Of course we could but a start is a start and this is better than nothing.
Besides that I don't get how and why someone's life might depends on plastic straws but I'm sure we could find an alternative for that poor person.
We really need to change the way that consumers consume things. People need to stop acting entitled to everything they want immediately and with every convenience available.
Maybe people should start travelling around with their own straws. Have a craving for an iced coffee?? Well either bring your own metal/silicone reusable straw or deal with drinking straight from the cup. Be responsible and stop expecting corporations and government to solve every issue and maintain the lifestyle we have had the past few decades.
Things need to change in order for the world to get better, and maintaining the same level of convenience and consumption is unfortunately not something that we can afford.
Single use bendy straws were literally invented to help keep bedbound and other disabled people alive. There are also many reasons people can't use different alternatives.
You personally not using something, doesn't mean others don't, and to deny access to a literal lifeline for the sake of 0.003% of the plastics in the ocean (literally a drop in an ocean) because it makes you feel better and requires zero effort or sacrifice (from you), instead of actually acting to resolve the problem (like being anti-capitalist rather than just trying to apply band aids to its symptoms) is not only gross and ableist, but also a colossal counterproductive waste of time.
Yeah nah. Non disposable straws are just going to become disposable straws that take up more material and are more expensive. Just like the "reusable" plastic bags they use at the grocery store now.
Maybe but a metal or glass straw that got disposed has a very different impact on the environment than a plastic one...
Strongly recommend hay straws (like, made of "straw").
They're better than paper in that they don't sog up. They're inconsistent in size but that has never bothered me. A little flimsy, but I stir iced drinks with them all the time.
Or just drink from the cup?
Or steel straws. I've been using those for about 5 years now
I had metal straws but I switched to glass because I can see if they’re clean easily and they feel better imo.
Can't use those with toddlers
I can't do metal, I HATE the feeling of metal on my teeth. There are ones with silicon nubs on the end, but then that's more plastic...
Teeth? You are using straws wrong. They are supposed to only touch your lips
You've NEVER hit your teeth by mistake with a straw or fork or something?
Of course not never, but not often enough to even recall once really.
It sounded like you are chewing on straws or so. Sorry for the misunderstanding!
I believe silicone is its own natural material, not plastic
Petty sure its made from oil same as plastic, resin, etc.
It’s made out of the element, silicon, hence the name.
I use a metal straw with a silicon bendy bit on the end, and it's not like I throw away the bendy part.
Doesn’t work well for thicker beverages like milkshakes or iced coffee’s. But for most drinks i agree no straw is best.
What do you mean you can't drink ice coffee without a straw?
The best milkshakes I've had didn't use straws -- too thick.
That's called ice cream
I do that too. There are plenty of subthreads going arguing straw-use is an accessibility issue, but in my case, I just want them for specific drinks -- mostly cocktails.
The head on a Ramos Gin Fizz practically requires a straw to enjoy. Especially as someone with a mustache.
Yeah!!! Straws suck!
When you’re driving?
I've had similar, but they smelled like... hay.
Do these have any smell?
They don't have any taste even if you chew on them a bit. The box does have a slight shrub odor, but it doesn't seem to be present when using them.
Holy shit why didn't anyone think of this before lol
Well straw can easily split. Don't know how I feel like spending $5 on grass. 🙄
Also sugar cane straws
Do we really need more sugar? We already have too much sugar in our diets. Why make straws into sugar too?
They make the straw from parts of the sugar cane plant that don't contain sugar. (After using the other parts to make sugar.)
Correct :)
It's basically made of wood pulp.
I do love people's knee jerk reaction at the word "sugar". I don't think they've ever seen a sugar cane, they're probably imagining this:
Now they're making canes out of sugar?! /s
Sugar cane, silly, not candy cane :)
It's wood pulp, there is almost zero sugar in a sugar cane once they're done extracting the cane sugar out of it, which is when it can be re-used to do other things.
It's made of bagasse (sugarcane fibers, basically wood pulp) and binders like PLA and is entirely compostable.
I'ma eat it anyway
I figured it was made from the sugar from sugar cane, but it seems that it is just the cane from the sugar cane. I have seen sugar straws, so my bad.
I agree
No comment on the level of PFAS aside from
This is just feeding the outrage machine to get clicks. If it was a story they'd be citing concentration guidelines and telling you what concentrations were found in the products. It's not a story, it's rage bait.
I agree 99%. The 1% left is that, honestly, it is shitty that they contain any kind of PFAS to begin with. If PFAS in any kind of concentration are part of the production process, then it just isn't sustainable in the long run.
But the question is why do we need straws at all. I doubt that back in 1970 anyone would drink a latte macchiato with a straw. I found it strange just 15 years ago. If you fancy straws, you can get one high quality reusable one (steel, bamboo whatever) and carry it with you - I find this proposition much less offensive then expecting me to always carry a huge reusable cup with me. And for the most part you can consume drinks without a straw.
Now, there is people who have disabilities that require them to use a straw. For them, have some in store as a vendor, and hand them out if requested.
It really depends on the levels, they are called forever chemicals because they last forever. In many cities you can detect cocaine in drinking water...
But then it doesn't depend on the level actually. If something toxic has a half life of a billion years then it shouldn't be used in production, no matter in what amount/at what levels. Cocaine will degrade at some point and also not stay in your system forever so I would argue that there can be a safe level of cocaine in drinking water. (I mean it still shouldn't be there, but it doesn't cause trouble on the grander scheme of things.)
How's cocaine got in your comment?
(using secretive slightly agitated conspiracy voice) That's how they getcha man.... Cocaine in the water man... it's in there on purpose.... they get you hooked on the coke and to get it you keep drinking the water to get mooooore! EVERYONE THAT EVER DRANK WATER HAS DIED AT SOME POINT!!!!?? (walks away mumbling about tin foil hats and mind control)
Agreed. If it was "intentionally added" PFAS, it would say that, and that might be a big deal. I read through the article and didn't see that. Just speculation that it might be. PFAS is everywhere.
Once in a restaurant I got some longe macaroni pasta as a straw and I still think this was genius.
Unless you have a gluten allergy, or need to drink something hot.
skill issue
To the gluten allergy or shotgunning scalding hot liquids?
Gluten free pasta exists.
Also love the idea of having to quickly drink your hot drink before your straw becomes a limp noodle (literally) 😂
If I'm not mistaken, manufacturing facilities spray PFAS agents on various conveyor parts to prevent pulp from sticking to them and therefore require stoppage and cleaning. In other words, PFAS reduce the time and money spent on cleaning manufacturing equipment. Congratulations shareholders!
I'm glad someone is thinking of the shareholders. It's about time we focus on them and not such pesky abstractions like "the environment" or "the future"
/s
It's all about doing the least while charging the most.
We have a couple metal straws and washable plastic ones. The metal ones probably have lead and the plastic ones are made of baby kittens.
We've got a bunch of glass ones. Probably has puppies in it or something.
Yeah but those are crack pipes so naturally you're less picky.
Oooh, is that why there were little roses in them?
The plastic ones will be leaching pthalates, microplastics and PFAS into whatever you're drinking.
But then that's true of any plastic you're eating or drinking from so... cool cool cool.
But man, you can really taste the kitten
Drink directly from the glass.
Single use bendy straws were literally invented to help keep bedbound and other disabled people alive. There are also many reasons people can't use different alternatives.
You personally not using something, doesn't mean others don't, and to deny access to a literal lifeline for the sake of 0.003% of the plastics in the ocean (literally a drop in an ocean) because it makes you feel better and requires zero effort or sacrifice (from you), instead of actually acting to resolve the problem (like being anti-capitalist rather than just trying to apply band aids to its symptoms) is not only gross and ableist, but also a colossal counterproductive waste of time.
It's possible that we could reduce regular use, yet allow those with accibility issues to continue to use the alternative. This can work in tandem to help address the real problem accumulation of single use plastics. Not using a straw is a valid solution for the majority of use cases.
“All the straw manufacturers should take warning and say, ‘Hey, do we use this stuff?’ Because at the moment, they’re not even asking that question,”
That is kind of concerning!
PFAS is everywhere at this point. Unfortunately they're reeeeeally good at what they're designed for and they're cheap. We'll need viable alternatives so they can be phased out. I think they should be banned from products that don't really need them like dental floss and hopefully we come up with an enzyme or something that can cheaply break it down in the environment.
Side note, there has been at least one study that shows that donating blood regularly can reduce the amount of PFAS in your blood. This doesn't solve the problem of the stuff being everywhere but it's good to know you can remove it from your body over time.
Donating plasma is particularly good at reducing your blood PFAS, and they pay you for donating plasma in lots of places in the US
Yep, I think you can donate plasma more often as well. Oneblood will give you giftcards and swag for whole blood, not nearly as good a payout as plasma but it's also like 15 minutes where my experience with plasma was a couple hours, they did set me up with netflix during the process so I think it's worth the extra bit of time.
I don’t fuck with ANY straw that ain’t metal
I'd suggest not fucking with anything that lacks a flared base.
Okay, but what kind of straws do you drink with?
... metal ones?
(It’s a joke about being literal with peoples words)
I use glass ones personally - tried plastic ones but kept biting them 🤦♂️.
Have you had any issues with rust on your straws? I've noticed some stainless steel stuff goes rusty if it's been left on some other wet steel item for a while, although I have no idea why that happens
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Scientists in Belgium recently tested dozens of straws from supermarkets, retail stores and fast-food restaurants in the country, and found that the majority contained PFAS — a family of synthetic chemicals used in the manufacture of consumer products because they can resist stains, grease and water.
Thimo Groffen, an author of the new study and environmental scientist at the University of Antwerp, said it’s not clear whether the manufacturers of the straws he analyzed are intentionally adding PFAS as a waterproof coating.
Graham Peaslee, who studies PFAS at the University of Notre Dame and was not involved in the new research, said it's possible manufacturers aren't testing for the chemicals in their own products.
Keith Vorst, director of the Polymer and Food Protection Consortium at Iowa State University, said some of the straws in the study exceeded the proposed EPA concentrations for water.
Various states, including California, Colorado, New York and Oregon, have banned plastic straws from food establishments in the last five years, and chains like Starbucks have phased them out.
The main reason is that the straws generally can't be recycled, so they wind up in landfills, get burned in incinerators or become litter that contaminates oceans, rivers, lakes and streams.
The original article contains 958 words, the summary contains 203 words. Saved 79%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
sigh We can’t do anything right, can we?
This bot is terrible and I wish it would be banned. It's basically just randomly selects snippets and it leaves out very important details.
The actual article says that the concentrations are very low and they don't even know if the manufacturer is intentionally putting them there or if they're finding their way in from other sources during manufacture. Also says the bamboo straws may have been grown in soil containing PFAS.
They even found PFAS on most of the glass straws.
It's concerning sure but the levels are so low that straws are the least of our concern when it comes to PFAS exposure.
Thanks for the extra info!
It no longer uses ChatGPT for some reason, the algorithm it's using now seems to be picking what it thinks is most important (turns out in an article of 1k words, it's chosen the opening, introductions of important-sounding people, and a summary)
It could benefit from a delete-on-many-downvotes like system, where that also notifies a human reviewer to look at the article, ultimately with the aim of improving the summarisation algorithm.
I am biased in the sense that I like the bot, especially its ability to retrieve paywalled articles and negate the need to see cookie popups by visiting the site etc. With this article though it's blatantly missed the mark.
It's important to keep in mind that 75% of plastic straws also contain PFAS.
The truth is, the PFAS stuff is independent of the main material of the straw* (yeah there's an asterisk, sec on that). It just so happens that PFAS are really good when we need to have a material not stick to food stuff too well and become unhygienic during its intended use time.
*: Straws from glass and metal are an exception because those materials naturally do not bind well to grease, liquids and stains. They don't need an extra PFAS coating. But plastic, paper, bamboo, they virtually all do.
That is to say, I would split the problem: We got the main material part done now, we're no longer using plastic for it. Now to get the coating done and use something that degrades very quickly.
What about just plain beeswax?
Absolutely not someone in that or any adjacent industry, so I would not know whether that's a usable solution. Could work, I mean it is used for gummi bears. But there might also be a thing about how it only lasts in closed packs I would imagine, and unlike gummi bears - which are gone ~11,5 seconds after opening a pack - straws are often kept around for months after a few have been used. No clue. There's probably a better solution than PFAS coating though, granted.
Gotcha gotcha. Thanks for the extra info!
God i love my glass straws
Aww what a surprise... not
When the craze first started I remember seeing paper straws in plastic. Someone was close but didnt quite get it.
You do know that thin film clear "plastic" isn't actually plastic right? Most of that is cellophane, which is made from plants and is biodegradable.
That's why I used the word plastic and not "cellophane." There were and still are companies that use non-biodegradable, non-plant based plastics to package their paper straws. But thank you..? I know you were going for a big internet gotcha moment there.
Like 99% of people don't need straws they just want them. Learn to drink like an adult and you're good
Just use straw
Or iron
Or no straws.
Who tf uses straws anyway
Eh, bendy straws are kinda neat.
Climate debate over folks. "Kinda neat" trumps destroying the environment every day of the week. If they were just "sorta neat" or "not really neat" we could ban them, but putting a few hundre metric tons of plastics into the waste stream is a reasonable tradeoff when you're at the level of "kinda neat".
I kid, of course...kinda.
Straws are a rounding error and a scapegoat when it comes to climate debate.
straws are better for your teeth when drinking soda
Who cares about health when drinking soda?
Me when it's time to see the dentist. Straws do protect your teeth from a lot of the damage the soda would do. Even the citric acid in diet sodas and other drinks can wear down your enamel. I think you can want to enjoy soda while still trying to keep your teeth attached to your head.
tbh if you're drinking soda often enough where straws are the reason your teeth don't fall out, I don't think the health of your teeth is the biggest concern.
Yeah, that would be a problem, but It was also hyperbole. It doesn't take much soda to damage your teeth though.
If you’re drinking enough soda that the way in which you consume it concerns you and your dental health, you have a problem.
Most people, most people use straws.
Single use bendy straws were literally invented to help keep bedbound and other disabled people alive. There are also many reasons people can't use different alternatives.
You personally not using something, doesn't mean others don't, and to deny access to a literal lifeline for the sake of 0.003% of the plastics in the ocean (literally a drop in an ocean) because it makes you feel better and requires zero effort or sacrifice (from you), instead of actually acting to resolve the problem (like being anti-capitalist rather than just trying to apply band aids to its symptoms) is not only gross and ableist, but also a colossal counterproductive waste of time.
Shit man you got me, I want disabled people to die from thirst, I fucking love killing disabled people in the weekend it's my favorite hobby.
Calling me ableist because I make fun of straws is legitimately deranged, are you in the pockets of big straw or something?
(also the solution to plastic straws is easy, just use the ones that you can clean and reuse)
I knew I should have avoided the comments... The fact that defence of this bullshit ban still endures (and in the literal face of its failures) frustrates me beyond words.
The plastic straws also contain PFAS anyway so paper still may be marginally better, but it’s definitely money and time that could have been better spent on a different environmental initiative. I’m happy to see plastic bags go, though. Can’t win em all
Haha fucking idiot whoever came up whit this bullshit.