What does the world think of India?
I am an Indian and I have noticed that Indians are way too proud of their country for some reason and at the same time lack any civic sense towards it, they are extremely loud and extremely proud. We feel like the world revolves around India and our culture is superior to that of others. Also, a considerable chunk of the population has been sold the "India is a world-leader" myth and they think India is somehow leading the world in innovation, science and technology, human development etc.,
Now, I know for a fact that this is not true, when I try to gauge the perception of Indians abroad on Twitter, I get pretty negative results, but Twitter has nothing good to say about any group of people, so... I kinda wanted to know what you people though of India, don't base it upon the etnic Indians who might be your friends and are decent people, but base it upon the news you read, the stories you hear from those Indians, etc.
It was the loudest and smelliest country I’ve ever been to.
I’ve never seen a country where the cross-country sleeper train bathrooms had literal holes on the floor to shit and piss out of. You saw the tracks wizz below you from the toilets. No plumbing, just excrete onto the tracks.
Chennai train station had the strongest most overwhelming diarrhea smell I ever experienced in my entire life.
Dudes were creepy as hell. They see you’re white and then you’re swarmed everywhere you go. People trying to scam, trying to appoint themselves as your tour guide and won’t stop following you and trying to guide you to “the mall”. Calling you Harry Potter because you wear glasses. I couldn’t imagine what would happen if I was a woman there. I shudder to think.
Crossing the street means walking into oncoming traffic and hoping and trusting everyone to just drive around you. Absolute fucking chaos. The people are not warm or friendly. They stare and get too close and touch you all the time. I kept having people touch my shoulders and try and touch my face when I was in public or queuing.
I never ever want to return to India ever again. I don’t recommend any of my friends go there. There were very few positives about that trip other than it being an eye opening experience as to how over 1 billion humans on the planet live.
This is more of a culture thing, I used to do it a lot when I was younger (it's considered friendly)
Thank you for being genuinely interested in the opinion of others and for explaining culture differences.
To someone from my culture and to me when I was there, I hated it. It felt the absolute opposite of friendly. It felt predatory. I didn’t feel safe, I felt uncomfortable, I felt I was a freak and an oddity and it made me embarrassed to go anywhere. And this was with Indian-American guides who were familiar with which places to go to and which to avoid for tourists.
I say this to you with no disrespect to you as a person. I’m just trying to state things without sugarcoating them. I appreciate you explaining the cultural perception.
I feel no connection to this culture whatsoever, I would happily follow your cultural norms if ever am lucky enough to visit the West, so you are not offending me, and I appreciate the honestly too :)
Train toilets dumping directly on the tracks isn't excessively unusual, we still have trains here in Austria that do that although it is definitely being phased out.
At a risk of downvote oblivion, this is what comes to mind to me. Keep in mind that this is just what I perceive about India through all the media I've consumed so it can come across as a bit prejudiced. I'm sure there's more nuance.
The good:
The bad:
I feel combining this with @PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca likely creates a fairly accurate sense for the place.
India is, well...despite their historical advances in medicine and continued strong cultural fascination with academia, at some point they became nothing but call centers, distribution points, and scam centers. There is certainly more to India, though when I think of hacking, I think of China and Russia. When I think of scams, unfortunately India is top of the list.
India is big in software. Hardware has to be imported from China / Korea / Taiwan, and we have to pay them what they demand.
So from the perspective of being in the United States. Remote Indian work it's cheap but of extremely low quality. This ranges from call center workers to programming and engineering work.
This is usually a sign of the company trying to cheap out and having poor products in general. So it's kind of a compounding problem.
Politically India seemes racist, nationalist, and terrible on climate change. I'm from the USA so yes I know we are not great on these topics as well.
Having been to India a few times from inside here it's what I've noticed in the country.
The poverty and wealth gap between Indians and westerners means almost everybody wants money from you and to up charge you. From beggars, to chai vendors, to high end stores and hotels. They also love hidden fees and you have to be vigilant about details. This puts me on a constant tense alertness when dealing with people that gets very draining.
I've also spent time with an indian family during holy. My western friend was dating a member of the family and we went for a visit. The family was very generous and welcoming. It was the only time in India when I was relaxed and able to chat and enjoy the company.
Racism and classism abound. The ways different ethnic groups treat each other and try to force the use of their language on the other group. For example a Hindi and Malayalam language standoff when I was in Kerala.
Or when at a store that sells stone art has two clearly miserable lower cast people working a human powered cutting tool for the tourists when you can hear the sound of high speed electric tools from the back room.
Animals other then cows are treated horribly. Elephants in particular always looked miserable and broken.
People with government jobs are arrogant and lazy. From customs and immigration to the national parks. I arrived 20 min before closing at a national park to buy tickets for a late night tour that was latter that evening. The ticket both was empty with one other person waiting. Two minutes before closing the guy came to the window in a towel because he had been showing before getting off work.
The belief in crap science abounds. I got an ayurvedic massage that wasn't a very skilled massage and then the guy tried to give me medical advice. Several people tried to explain that the ayurvedic guys were just as good as doctors. On way out another of the ayurvedic "doctors" tried to sell me a medicine that he assured would remove belly fat and regrow hair. This from a fat bald man.
The fiet time I was in India Modi had just won his first term as Prime Minister while I was there. There was a huge procession of angry young men yelling and pushing people out of the way. I assumed they were from the losing party. My driver informed me that no they had just won the election.
It was clear that this wasn't a jubilant celebration of success. It was a angry group that now had the power to do what they wanted.
I know i've been negative and there is a fair amount of nice things in India but they always are fleeting and overshadowed by something. In the multiple times i've been to India i've never had a bad meal and there are a lot of nice people. I just think they are constantly at odds with each other.
The most Indian moment I had was drinking tea while enjoying the smell of the spice fields. Then the wind shifted and all I could smell was the stench of shit and diesel from the cesspool over the hill.
India is one of the last places I'd like to visit. This is based on how India has been portrayed in various travel shows over the years (Amazing Race, Top Gear). It looks crowded, dirty, and the locals often aren't very friendly, especially towards women.
One of your main exports to the west is scam calls. It's a huge PR problem and your government refuses to address it. Your other main export right now is Russian oil.
Indians used to have a fairly large online presence in English-speaking spaces with mixed results. There were a lot of helpful tech bros on YouTube, but also a lot of horny dudes on Facebook. I don't really see much of either of those anymore though.
My wife works in software testing and has regular interactions with Indians. Some are really nice, but others are really not. Misogyny is far too common and when Indians are rude they are boldly rude.
The things that come to my mind are
-The country has a set goal to improve in tech industry, aiming to rival big countries like China.
-The people definetly know their spices. While they use it a bit too much at times, it certainly works well.
-The country is overpopulated, leading to talented people having harder time to succeed.
-If you're watching an Indian man's tutorial on any topic, you can assume it'll work well.
-It has a noticable split in religious beliefs.
-fuck the remote scammers operating from Kolkata. The people in India also hate these people.
Can second the comment about tutorials. It's amazing how your very very specific problem has a great tutorial, with the worst possible audio, that is perfectly solved by some random dude in his bedroom in India.
Can second the comment about tutorials. It's amazing how your very very specific problem has a great tutorial, with the worst possible audio, that is perfectly solved by some random dude in his bedroom in India.
I wouldn't view India as a world leader in any field but may be ignorant of some specialities? I know there is innovation but nothing major springs to mind. I'm being lazy though - that can likely be looked up and verified with stats.
Technology wise, it appears to depend on western countries outsourcing work, which isn't necessarily a bad thing but isn't a good thing either since the draw to using India isn't skill but cost. If the cost goes up, the west will stop outsourcing there and go to some other low cost base. (I'm not saying Indians aren't skilled, just that's not the primary reason why outsourcing there is happening, it's all about exploitation from the west in search of more profit).
Politically it seems to have been a dumpster fire for some time and looks like it's trending towards more national extremism. Though that doesn't seem to be unique at all - feels like the world is shifting to more fascist tendencies.
The caste system is especially cruel and I regularly read stories that it's going strong with no signs of stopping. I find that morally repugnant.
The amount of scams against innocent people that originate from India is shocking, and it really appears as though corruption is so high that it's not going to get better any time soon.
Professionally, I deal with Indians semi regularly and it's overall positive. Personally, I've come across a few assholes but the majority have been decent people and none of the issues above ever come up.
There is NO INNOVATION. There are no discoveries happening here. R&D budget and the budget for education is peanuts, there isn't much innovation happening in India and the innovation that does happen, happens in handful of universities by students who could not afford to move out to a better country which would fund their research.
I know India has a booming tech sector and produces tons of great engineers which is cool. I hate their scam call centers its disgusting.
I've never been but I've seen traveling vlogs and the news and it looks so unbelievably polluted and gross. With all the money and education I would expect basic infrastructure to be in every city. The country still has a lot of natural beauty and historical sites well preserved, big respect for that.
As for generalizations about the people. I see a lot of videos of indians mobbing and doing crazy acts. When they are abroad they tend to mostly interact with other indians and shut others out but generally follow the law and arent violent. Women's rights are pretty awful. Sellers are too pushy.
In general my perception of Indians normally comes from the ones I've met who grew up in New Zealand and I have a good perception of them. When I have to exclude that and only think of India as a country my perception is very negative.
interestingly, almost everyone in the comments have been as calm headed and rational as you. There is not one emotionally charged reply which is devoid of real answers. This is pretty good!
Echoing what other people have said, it's great that you're looking for this type of knowledge and taking the replies so well. Awareness of how you (or a group you're a part of) is perceived is a valuable thing to have, but people don't often say these types of observations publically.
India gets my respect for its very long history, and the fact it invented buddhism.
But Indian code is terrible. It degrades my respect for the country because it’s just consistently really bad.
A lot of Indian code seems like someone tried to fix a broken car window by caulking a fish tank into place. You confront them and they’re like “What? It’s glass isn’t it? It’s exactly the same”
Now I haven’t seen a lot of Indian code. I’ve seen the output of maybe ten different devs in India, and of that sample it’s all bad. Like really bad.
They work hard and get shit done, but it’s always some kind of hacky kluge made from copy-pasted code.
It’s unclean. It’s full of tech debt. It’s redundant. It’s often not even indented correctly.
Western countries employing Indian coders are generally looking for the cheapest coders they can find who speak passable English. All of that sounds like you got what you paid for.
It’s probably true that the examples I’m thinking of were all from that general notion. The attitude of “We’re going to India to get this done cheap.”
Yep and when they pay for better they tend to ship the engineer to their base of operations. Huge brain drain.
Siddhartha was born in what is now Nepal.
I went back and forth thinking you meant code like Building Code, or Traffic Code. But you literally mean programming code.
Honestly, I agree.
I will argue that the only code I ever saw from India was from coding firms hired by American companies thinking they can save a few bucks. But then people like me are paid 10x more to fix it.
That code seems to lack any sort of creative thinking or big picture. It's loops within loops. It's using stuff like letters for variables, or abbreviations. It's duplicating code in 3000 line files.
At first, I thought it was just laziness or trying to get it done asap. But then I felt sad when I gave them a lot of feedback, got the changes back, then the next set of code, saw the same issues over again. Like they really don't see a problem with this.
Unfortunately this is my experience as well. It's probably something in the way that it's taught over there? I do love my Indian coworkers-- they're nice and willing to help or collaborate, and are good people as far as I can tell-- but some of the architectural decisions are something that I can only describe as baffling.
I'm in a Western country and 9 out of 10 phone calls I recieve are scam calls from India. Right now in my country, there are Indians with temporary working visas protesting because they don't want to return to India.
India does not seem like a place I want to visit.
In all honesty, I think most people can't tell an Indian accent from a Filipino accent. I've heard primarily Filipino voices on customer service calls for decades now
You can see where the caller is calling from. I've gotten calls from Indonesia but never Philippines. Good to know there's a whole new country of scams I've yet to experience
Like any place, there are pros and cons, and since I've never visited, I haven't been exposed to enough to form a proper opinion. However, here are some of my thoughts:
Norwegian here. Not that often I think of India tbh, but here is a short bullet point list
Last show I saw about India was that James May show on Amazon
To be fair, every country believes their culture is superior in some way, partly because it’s beneficial for governments to instil a sense of nationalism in its citizens. India’s not alone in that.
I agree, but we have crossed a limit between self-love and self-obsession. It's hindering progress because people in India are not even ready to acknowledge what's wrong with our priorities, culture and way of living and are calling anyone who questions their way of life anti-national. Sometimes, it feels like I am living in Eritrea or something!
You see that everywhere. Even within countries that aren’t classed as developing nations. The UK massively shot itself in the foot with the disaster that was Brexit thanks to nationalistic propaganda and outright lies from campaigners, and US liberals have faced “anti-American” backlash for their views.
I can attest to that. I was born and brought up in India, and right now in the US for education. It's kind of the same here as well, just expressed differently due to cultural differences. The fact that the US is actually the world leader at this time makes these people much more dangerous imo.
In any case, I'm more hopeful about my country after the last election. They seem to be rejecting religious fundamentalism to some degree. It'll take time, but I think we're finally starting to see through BJP's lies. I hope I can go back to India soon enough. (It's hard to get good jobs in my field there at the moment. Counting on it changing at some point.)
Fantastic food. Entirely too rapey.
I don't see much about India in the news. I have a friend who worked in a small town for a month during medical school and talks about the poverty and the number of people she saw sleeping on every flat surface in the city.
I work in public education in the US. With Indian families I've seen two very different attitudes, which leads me to believe that culturally they either serve others or expect to be served. Most are kind, pleasant, and very appreciative of anything we do for their kids. Others expect us to bend every rule for them- start and end times, attendance, bus times/routes, etc. Our Indian families tend to carry and feed their kiddos longer than others and it seems like little kids (especially boys) 'rule the roost' as parents often say things like - he won't go to bed, won't stay at the table to eat, won't get up in the morning, etc. You want to say, "He's 5. You're the mom. Set some rules."
Ohh yes, that's a nice observation. I have seen people who would just crumble when they encounter someone they perceive to be of a higher class (not caste), but I have also seen people who are "I own this place guys"
It probably talks a lot abt the socio-economic circumstances of their upbringing. Most including me belong to the people who become servile when they encounter authority/class, I am trying to change that tho.
I hate the servility I see around me, people think so less of themselves and way too highly of the corrupt bureaucrat, I have seen what kind of people this culture creates and it's pretty gloomy!
As an Indian it's amazing how you perfectly hit the nail on the head considering how limited your exposure has been. Most Indians themselves never realize this tendency of theirs throughout their lives.
no joke dude, I hate this. Indians (including me) become slavish when we encounter authority. I need to change this in myself or leave! This is too fucking gloomy! It's like our bones melt and we become liquid! ughh...!
When I think of india, I think of scam centers disguised as tech support.
Talking of tech support, I must mention that your McAfee subscription has expired and at a low cost of $40 you can get lifetime access :)
I've been working with many Indians remotely who were in India and on site in Sweden and Germany. None of them ever said anything like you describe, most of them were very humble and hard working. Sadly often they would just keep their head down and work into the wrong direction sometimes for a long time not reaching out to others.
But if I'm honest, the people from India were as diverse as any other group of people. From very religious from small villages to atheists from rich families. The division between them was bigger then between them as a individual and me a European. They didn't even speak the same language and had to use English.
Warning: sweeping generalizations ahead. These are the kinds of opinions I would normally keep to myself.
Based on what I've heard from my Indian coworkers, I think India has a culture of ignoring rules that leads to a lot of government corruption. They praise the ability of many people to hire domestic help, but of course they're the kind of people who can afford it and not the ones providing it.
Based on what I've seen in the news, India has a huge problem with Hindu nationalism, which is basically just Indian flavored fascism from what I can tell.
Based on news about the US, I gather the caste system is so pervasive that rules against caste discrimination are being put in place in some parts of the US with large Indian populations. The caste system appears to be a sight variation of overt racism.
Culturally I view India a lot like I view Brazil, The Philippines, Hungary, and Turkey. Economically I view it as similar to China, only a decade or two behind.
I'm not surprised Indians are irrationally proud of their country; Americans are the same.
I'd like to visit, but Thailand, Vietnam, Bali, and Japan look more enticing.
Vietnam is wonderful. You also poop directly onto the train tracks in Vietnam (someone else commented about that), but somehow it's much cleaner than I imagine India is (though I've never been to India).
South East Asia is an awesome place to travel. Highly recommend Thailand.
One of the largest countries in the world and a hell of a lot of ethnic diversity, so it's hard to make generalizations. Kerala and, say, UP are very different. But here's my attempt.
Geopolitically as an entity it's currently suffering from some of the same things the world's other largest countries (China, US, Indonesia) are suffering from - namely: populist leaders and a large group of poorly educated people in the population propping them up.
Consequently there is way too much militant nationalism and complacency about aggression towards other nations, territorialism, persecution of certain ethnic minorities, religious fundamentalism. All the biggest countries have those traits at the moment, so it's not specifically a reflection on India.
In terms of resource and development it's dealing with a similar situation to other ex colony LICs - years of resource exploitation left it with a low GDP per capita and consequently major challenges when it comes to provision of infrastructure (eg pollution management), health, education, living standards etc.
India has made huge strides in the past but the current wave of populism relies on leveraging social conflict (as it does elsewhere in the eorld) so I think that growth has slowed. For the same reason the fault lines along ethnic, religious, caste lines - which colonialism entrenched or deepened within the region - are still a big aspect.
My personal experiences with Indian people is that just like from anywhere else there are good and bad. Cultured, well educated people are easier to deal with because there is more shared knowledge. Statistically speaking, many of the world's worst arseholes you are going to meet are going to be from India, China and the US, and that holds up.
I am not sure of assholes. I think they distribute evenly across all nations. On the other side those countries tend to be specifically nationalistic. Russia would also go in this cluster, but it is much more seldom to meet Russians these days in Europe or the US. I just want to add that India has the huge advantage that a lot of people can speak some kind of English. Most with a strong accent, but the percentage of English speaking Indians is very high compared to china, Korea, Japan.
I think arseholes are distributed evenly too.
If 5% of all people are arseholes, everywhere, then a country with 50 million people has 2.5 million arseholes. But a country with 1,428,000,000 people has over 71 million arseholes. This is why they seem to be over represented by the large nations.
You are right that we are more likely to notice them if they travel near us or communicate in a language we understand. This is why Estonians are more likely to think badly of Finns whereas South Africans are more likely to think badly of Nigerians.
On India itself, its impressive that it's the world's largest democracy. Indians are well educated relative to similarly poor countries and have high English literacy, which is why many believe it could outpace China.
I admire their charitibility. My local area has a large Indian population as I live near a large hindu temples in the US. There is always cheap, high quality food for those in need (1$ for a large plate of food). The kitchen is operated by volunteers and rely on donations and food banks. I Believe this is also common practice in many temples within India proper.
There are plenty of unsavory things such as the caste system but overall harbor a lot of respect for the country and people.
Here's a great little mini-documentary on that I saw on exactly that a few months back. Sikh temples seem amazing in terms of the sheer numbers of people they feed with no limiting criteria.
I am myself Indian
I think most Indians don't realise how large and diverse India is. Most Indians underestimate how foreign parts of thier own country are in terms of economy, culture, language, food etc.
I grew up in India's abusive ex (UK). My impression was that people have a
Most people have no problems with Indians and British culture is pretty heavily influenced by India (or at least more so than other countries). Most Brits like Indian food and everyone drinks tea. Vindaloo is especially popular with people who are very drunk, and also happens to be my favourite meal generally (they might ban it in Denmark soon). My experience is that Indians are pretty chill people.
All the news we get from India paints the north as being full of insane zealots/rapists. Stories about whole villages pinning a man down so they can saw off and steal a man's "holy leg" or young girls getting brutally gang raped etc. I know this probably isn't the whole story but you need a decent pr team.
Narendra Modi is a twat.
Indians are stereotypically seen as either doctors or corner shop owners. Indians are typically seen as hard working. All tech support and telemarketing is outsourced to India and people don't typically enjoy those things.
That said the UK does have it's fair share of racist morons, who will always have a problem with Indians, but that's because they weren't raised right.
The caste system and arranged marriage are terrible. It doesn't strike me as a good place for women.
Wait, they might ban vindaloo in denmark? Why?
I'm joking, Denmark recently banned a variety of instant ramen for being too spicy not joking
This seems ridiculous but a kid in the US died recently after eating a 'one chip challenge'. He had a heart issue.
People should be able to eat whatever spice level they like. My 5 year old takes bites of my 3x spicy noodles that were banned in Denmark yeah she needs to rinse her mouth, but she enjoys them.
Dude should be in jail but he's the PM ? Nuff said.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/jun/15/the-architecture-of-modern-empire-arundhati-roy-review
bunch of daredevils that can somehow cross roads WHILE CARS ARE SPEEDING BY in expert fashion
I just show hand LOL. Also we never use Zebra Crossing
I feel called out!
LoL
Generally, I think of India positively, but your march towards authoritarianism worries me. The last election lessened that worry a bit, but I still feel nervous about a regional nuclear war* between you and Pakistan or a land war with China, particularly as the region dries out.
As long as India strives to be a democracy and outlooks between you and Pakistan lighten, I feel pretty good about you guys.
*a regional nuclear war could cause seasonal disruptions to the entire planet, like some massive volcano eruptions that have dimmed the planet for a decade or more.
My background is US.
Neither will happen. Both our politicians and Pakistani generals love sabre-rattling. Both also love their wealth and status too much to do anything stupid. And while China can really hurt us in a potential war, they can do at least as much damage by stopping exports to us.
Going to be a superpower soon if they manage to create a robust middle class and get some nice institutions up and running. India is doing good but it's hard to manage a country on that scale without being, like, China.
If i m being honest I've been told and also it looks like it - Never go to India. Its filled with Diseases , Poverty and unhygienic people.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/jun/15/the-architecture-of-modern-empire-arundhati-roy-review
Had a talk with some friends a while back about this. Used to be this big far away country with wonders and crappy things. And it's turning into scam center galore because the only contact we have these days is the weekly scammer. To the point we've come to associate he accent with the situation. It's really an undeserved fate.
I'll share my perspectives on Indian colleagues. Not Indians raised Americans (who are more Americanized), but Indians who are from India.
Like others, I feel like this is a general sweeping comment that can be seen as racist and inaccurate. I agree. I try my best to keep it in check.
Indian women come off as entitled. They are both strong because men in India have been rude/off-putting to them, but also demanding. I recall one Indian woman tell me how she used to get catcalls and even had some pretty rape-y language thrown her way and she shrugged it off, calling those men pathetic. But then in her own words, "Would have been treated like a queen" by those toxic men.
Indian men come off incel-y. Not just the young ones, but the married ones too. My one "friend" made a pass at my 14-yo cousin. I now keep him at arms length. The married couple, the husband was a total creep to my wife. Then he defended himself saying that's normal Indian men behavior. His wife was upset, so maybe it wasn't? Either way, I didn't appreciate it.
I only know about a dozen Indian folks in my circle. And again, Indians born in America are completely different.
I really respect the area of Kerala and its commitment to their public. Very robust educational system, healthcare, and a focus on access to clean water. That's just from stuff I've seen and read though, I've never been to India, I'm American.
I hope the best for India's future, but it seems worrying from what I hear. I would hope for greater collaboration with China and an easing of tensions with Pakistan. India is a massively diverse place though, with multiple languages and even multiple writing scripts, so sometimes it's amazing it's a functional country at all.
Most of what I hear though is about India dominated by very right wing movements, but there's a strong history of Indian working class movements as well. I'll try to be optimistic about the future. Also as an American I am fully aware of my country's horrifying exploitation of the Indian people. The Union Carbide disaster is still the worst industrial accident in history and its impact should never be forgotten
I view India as a rising power that has the potential to rival China and the USA. I think the culture is backwards in many ways and advanced in others. I don't like your current administration, but I do think India overall has interesting politics. I mean, you guys have an active Maoist insurgency. Pretty wild for the 21st century.
I tend to get along well with Indians I meet in the states. I appreciate India long history and cultural impact (Buddha came from India for example). There were democracies in India before Athens was a thing.
All in all India's a rising power with a lot of potential. Unfortunately I don't think they will reach China-status anytime soon because they don't exercise as much central control as China does.
In some ways this is good, Cultural Revolution wasn't exactly a great experience for a lot of people. But in other ways it means the Indian government doesn't have the power to reshape India in a way where it can successfully rival the European powers.
Too many cultures/languages in a large space, they should split into smaller countries, it's like judging Europeans from knowing some Brits, but
– People with money are very arrogant, selfish and wasteful – Many clingy/creepy people that keep talking to you when no longer appropriate – Headbobbing – Mostly friendly, sometimes too polite – Workaholics – Always complaining about their parent's high expectations – Lots of IT workers who know what they learned to do step by step but it's like they don't know why they do what they do – Pretty condescending to other Indians from other regions – The usual: good but spicey food, hot weather, corruption, expensive weddings, overcrowded but still mass producing babies
no thanks, we are fine.
So speaking as an American, the Indian diaspora here is typically thought of positively, at least in the sense they tend to be responsible members of the community.
Unfortunately, Americans are pretty geopolitically ignorant, and so end up developing views on countries based on the behavior of their American communities.
So I would say most Americans impression of India is “vaguely positive”. This notably includes at least tacit approval from American conservatives, in that Indians are left off their “which minority group are we targeting today” bingo card.
This is probably mutually reinforcing with America’s geopolitical priorities, which is essentially deepening ties with India as a counterbalance to China.
As to your “too proud of your country” comment, obviously as an American I sympathize, but they’re not wrong in that because of your country’s size and growth, India will become more prominent in global affairs.
Unfortunately as you’ve noticed, that leads to some people having an inflated view of themselves. It’s just something you have to live with as a world power.
Anyway, the below article actually answers your question, and overall, generally positive is the answer (but what did you guys do to South Africa though?)
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/08/29/international-views-of-india-and-modi/
From afar, I love the food. I’d love to visit and learn more about the country but as a woman I don’t feel safe going there.
I think it has a rich history and culture. That being said, I've never been, but the news that comes from there doesn't make me form a good opinion. I always hear about horrific sex crimes against women, or gang rapes, or murders. I'm certainly not going to say that's all they do, but that's the bulk of news I hear about it. I hear about the scam centers that seemed to be baked into society. I hear about the caste system, the lack of cleanliness and infrastructure, I hear about the overcrowding. Yes, I hear that they work towards better tech, but the news I hear from there has places India squarely on the "Do not visit" list.
I'm pretty indifferent to India. They do have cool stuff, but they also have... not so cool stuff. All in all, it's India.
I wonder in what ways does India believe they are the world leader of anything? India is just another country America outsources things to. Its way over crowded, weather is insane and the people seem to be stuck in the past in terms of acceptable hygiene and women's rights.
That being said, i still would love to eat some indian food and witness India's culture as a tourist.
They see the outliers in this system and think that is the norm. i.e., Out of 1.4 billion people, there must be many people who are extremely successful abroad (and are very famous) and Indians think that is the norm and the fact that there are some so many successful people abroad shows that our culture is superior. It really makes sense if you stop thinking about it lol.
And there are some random events happening in such a big country that if you are in an ecosystem of Indian uncles or you haven't really grown up from metal age of 12, you begin to think the world revolves around us and we are a superpower.
Haha the exact opposite of the comment I posted. America is not the centre of the world.
Far too overpopulated in most parts, with all negative societal and environmental effects. Huge disparity between poor country and rich city. Has a space programme and developed industry and science. Calls itself the biggest democracy but isn't one.
Is this correct?
Welll ok, i'm swiss and think so too. Probably most countries/cultures think this of themselves. I know from Manga that Japan and South Korea do too. And from Reddit/Lemmy for Americans.
Funnily enough, Romanians are the exact opposite in this regard. Romanians tend to think that Romania is terrible, backwards, and filled with awful people. That isn't exactly the case (like any country, it has it's pros and cons, and there's a lot we need to work on) but it is how they tend to see it.
Cracking goal against Ukraine just now mate
Lol, took me a minute to figure out you're literally talking about a football match happening now. I was re-reading my comment thinking "Wait, what's this got to do with Ukraine? Did the Romanian government do something that hit the news I don't know about? What does this mean?!?" xD
This is super refreshing to outsiders.
Reminds me a little of France. While France has a reputation in the US for being full of snobs and elitists, the French I know might be the first to complain about how awful France is (with an exception for their amazing food and the fashion, both of which, they absolutely are elitist about).
Yeah, pretty much. I am not sure what you mean by it isn't the biggest democracy, it kinda is the biggest democracy, but people place way too much emphasis on it. People don't seem to have a mind of their own, they act in groups and are very tribal, so it's probably not the most effective democracy.
being accepting of your own nationality is good, but I have a problem with people being too proud of shitty things. We are too ok with who we are as a country and that's not conducive to progress.
Something i read forever ago, i think about Modi or some other people really deciding things? Not sure anymore. Well, looks like it's wrong.
I can speak to an unfortunate trend where our country (US) imports poorly trained Indian medical doctors who provide poor people with shitty medical care. This is a whole industry. I was exposed to it while working in the medical imaging field and I'm sure that it kills poor people in this country every day. Both of the most blatant criminal abuses coming from medical doctors that I was personally close to (one committed insurance fraud by performing unnecessary heart surgery on patients who DID NOT NEED IT the other sexually assaulted women on his examining table) also were, sadly, Indians.
It's MUCH easier to get a medical degree in India than it is in America, if you're high caste. Meaning high caste students in India who would NOT pass medical school in America become doctors all the time and then immigrate.
Once you have that MD after your name, in terms of legally establishing a private practice in America, your Indian MD is just as good as one from Harvard or Colombia. And Insurance companies FUCKING LOVE YOU because you charge 70% what the guys from Harvard or Colombia charge. They have programs in the Insurance industry to help reach out to immigrating Indian doctors and get them into network with the Insurance providers.
So I had a job travelling all over the US setting up, repairing and supporting medical imaging computers for private practices and what I saw in 4 out of 5 Indian owned clinics was
I also saw
I got to contrast this with a couple of black doctors in the South who had shabby clinics in old buildings and old poorly maintained equipment but ENTIRELY different attitudes towards their patients and LOTS of white and Asian doctors who run the kind of clean, modern clinics I myself as a white collar professional from a privileged background had previously taken for granted.
I want to be VERY clear this is NOT a race thing. It is a socio-economic / cultural problem.
I visited India back in 2008 and I loved it! However, since then I have realized that I am transgender, so I probably won't go back unless the culture shifts toward being more friendly to queer people. That sours my taste for the country, unfortunately. I also escape fundamentalist Christianity, so I am very suspicious of fundamental and conservative religion, which I perceive as having a strong presence in India.
I don't see India leading in innovation or technology. I see China, Japan, South Korea and the US as being leaders that way. I do see India as up and coming due to its population spike, it definitely feels like development is happening fast!
On paper, India has a lot of protections for transgender people (including reservations in many government jobs). Enforcement is another question.
They try to scam you on the phone and their movies suck or are impossible to take seriously. Is a parody of Hollywood. And Hollywood is already a parody of former Hollywoodland.
I find Bollywood movies to be quite enjoyable if you go into it with the expectation that it's basically live-action anime.
Extremely dirty. Why does nobody care about all the shit and litter out there? What caused such ignorance to form?
I hope that India doesn’t make the same mistakes my county (America) made, such as trying to be a major international player while ignoring the people in need at home. They’re already going that way, but there’s time to change course.
Also, I’d like them to fix their issues with Pakistan. That border was drawn by the British specifically to cause problems, and falling into that trap is letting the previous colonizers win.
The two things that I think of when I think of India are that it's way too overpopulated and also way too hot.
Aside from that, there are a lot of academics I've seen from India that are genuinely helpful on YouTube but also a lot of scams. Speaking English with an Indian accent almost instantly creates a sense of distrust in Americans simply with how many times we each personally have received scam calls or talked to someone in an Indian call center who swears their name is 'Derek Johnston' or other similarly fabricated name.
My basic view of India is of a super diverse country with a fascinating history and cultures, and really great food. Politically I see a country that unfortunately is leaning in a more authoritarian direction as time goes one, and one that is getting increasingly unequal to its inhabitants. I really think India has so much potential but little will to actually improve.
I really like the food, movies and most people I've met from India are extremely nice.
What I don't like is the huge inequality, treatment of women and the lack of hygiene in the big cities.
It's definitely a country that has been on it's way up for a while now, things could be really good for India in the future.
I had my biases, due to the large number of tech support scammers from India... Until my mother got scammed by chiropractors, and my whole family (including me) got their teeth mutilated by a malpracticing dentist in the US trying to profit off unnecessary dental proceedures. Scammers are everywhere there's corruption; they just take different forms.
Speaking of unnecessary dental procedures: veneers… hoo boy, so many people (especially celebrities) get them unnecessarily, and permanently fuck up their teeth as a result.
My general impression is that India are really good at scientific innovation and so on but only because the incredible inequality allows India to channel its resources so that it can be on par with other countries a fraction it's size.
If they did the work required to lift the poor regions out of poverty, and sometimes just straight up feudalism, the country would become a proper superpower with far reaching cultural impact but right now India seem to slide further into Hindu nationalism so now it's more of a worry for everyone else if India became another dictatorship like china.
Sadly, I have nothing good to say, other than the food is delicious.
A massive tangle of diverse kingdoms that have never quite hit their full potential. Current political situation is grim and disappointing and I am not particularly optimistic for them.
I hear that India is fun for parties and weddings, but also that it's extremely dirty and a dangerous place to visit. I'm a man, but I especially wouldn't want to be a white woman visiting, I've seen videos of how they'll stare with no regard for how she feels - Indian men have a very poor reputation when it comes to how they act towards European/US women.
Culturally, not a fan, for many reasons others have mentioned - and the whole caste system thing tends to sour a lot of the otherwise positive aspects.
That said, the food is EXCELLENT, and that must not be overlooked.
BJP/RSS - right wing fundamentalist zealots have taken over India. It's gross, it's dangerous and frightening. It's what we hope America will not become with Trump and Heritage types.
All of this is IMHO so keep that in mind.
Politically it's pretty extremist from what I can tell. Not just that but support for that extreme political stance is also rather high. Neithe of which is a good thing in my book. Other news I get to know about also tend to paint a pretty grim picture when it comes to human rights, rich/ poor divide and acceptance of people who have different preferences. I also mostly remember having met people how you described in the opening.
To say how it is, my opinion is not exactly good. Primarily because of how they act a d their political choices. Though I chalk some of that up to a lack of education. And it's also not so bad that I'd rather not deal with them. Just that I have a healthy dose of " oh no, not one of those guys again. This will get exhausting, isn't it" whenever I see someone that fits the description.
Honestly, off the top of my head I often like the people who come to England but as far as the country itself I don’t really think about it much. First thoughts are that it’s a massive country that’s heavily polluted and kinda obsessed with making money without much care for how they do it, such as how much of the world is making sacrifices to stop buying gas from Russia but India’s just undermining their good intentions for profit. I think if Pakistan invaded they’d expect the whole world to rally around them.
I might disagree with most things this government does, but I can't deny the fact that's something overwhelmingly popular with Indians (including me)
We literally have people suffering from malnutrition in this country, people who still die of hunger, you can't expect us to not buy cheap oil from Russia. Sorry, we will buy oil from everyplace where it is cheap, we can alleviate suffering of our own people by money and we will try to do it as best as we can.
This is just business in general; it's not peculiar to one nation.
Why do you think the few countries that are stopping buying Russian gas are doing it? Coz it sounds like you're saying they're doing it out of moral reasons, which isn't very plausible.
Send bobs.
But seriously I can’t help but think of the good foods. I’m curious if India does food diplomacy like Thailand does.
I know very very little about India, but it seems like the country is going the neoliberal route of Amerika, bringing some limited wealth, but a heap ton of poverty and stress/competition for those who do have a job. I admire India for their educational system, how hard working and responsibly their citizens are, and how much their country has grown since independence (a difficult feat).
I know that not every Indian is a BJP member, but that's gotta be
embarrassingfrustrating as MAGA is in the US. I've seen some center-right Indian friends go hard right these last few years. This seems to be everywhere now, though, not just India.Don't at me, this is from a place of profound ignorance.
Edit: changed a word so I don't come off like a racist prick
I've no significant opinion of India beyond anti-Modi, and that's a product of John Oliver. Most of my engineering team are Indian and some I like, some I tolerate. And a fear of Indian traffic by reputation alone.
But you could swap "American" with "Indian" in that first paragraph, change nothing else, and it be largely (if not entirely) accurate.
that guy is almost always biased as hell and lies to make people he disagrees with seem bad, but damn, he went wayyy to easy on modi even though he dislikes Modi! Idk why!?. He attributed things to modi which weren't his own (like rations and the economic progress) and generally was misinformed. Terrible research team! I could have given him better points! and his delivery was subpar! The last Modi episode was better, maybe he was trying to gain a wider audience in India as otherwise we would have banned the show (We love Free speech here in India)
I'm sure thoughts are influenced by the fact that the company I work for has a sizable presence there, but the very broad view I've developed is 'outsourcing superpower'. It rarely seems that India is the owner or originator of things, but they end up doing a massive amount in supporting companies from the USA during what is our night hours. They also seem to have an exceptional dedication to their work despite from what I've seen the managers being kinda over-the-top with the demands on them.
I used to work with a young woman who left one of the wealthy families there to get out of an arranged marriage who had all kinds of interesting tales on how things worked there. Talked a bit about their 'gold room's where they stored all their savings and if they needed extra cash would just shave off a piece from a brick.
Regional power with powerful neighbours, has nuclear weapons, struggles with impacts of climate change, (completely?) electrified railway recently, doesn't take a stance on the war in Ukraine due to involvement with Russia, farmer's protests, BJP/Modi won't step down, religious conflicts.
My country's media don't report much about India, but occasionally they do features about specific topics.
India appears to be a country that contains multitudes and is hard to pin down. It has a problematically large contingent that is deeply islamaphobic. The country suffers from low regulation and prejudice as well as a shitty right wing president. But much of it is beautiful with rich culture. The prominent religions are pretty benign when compared to american christianity as far as I can tell
I like Ram V and his comics, I don't like all the bhenchods calling my phone.
I have never been to India and have no intention to travel there. My imagination is that it is overcrowded, the people there are mostly polite, hard working but not especially skilled. It is definitely a relatively poor country with a lot of inequality and crime.
Terrible education and bad priorities doomed this country. Having a billion people is useless if they are not well-educated. I know this tale way too well, this is the reason why people who can leave this country do leave it and most who can send their children abroad for education do send them there.
Fuck! who am I kidding, I will make sure my kids study abroad, the education in this country won't improve anytime soon.
edit: Good observation there!
the "news" i "know" about india is little, some historical "facts" written mostly by uncivilized brutish invaders compacted to youtube videos by part or fulltime streamers. Some other "facts" which sound often bad i sometims mostly have from official media known to promote any "nice" propaganda - that is, depicting other countries worse than the own one so that people do not hunt their own gov with garden forks just to stop the crimes. Well i really "know" nothing about India.
But beeing proud of culture usually is a good thing, but that is only if it is culture and as such does not(!) base on abuse or similar.
Maybe what you experience could be a crowd effect that protects the people from seeing what they (group, society) do wrong while at the same time it protects the worst wrongdoers from punishment or at least from getting stopped. Such as it could be a self-sustaining downwards spiral taking more and more and everything down with it slowly increaaing pace. At least what you wrote sounded a slight bit chilling like that.
It could be hormones and how culture tells you to act or not act on them, or a lack of culture about such, maybe a combination of culture to "support your group" while that support does not always protect integrity of the overall concept of what that culture was meant for. A group of people cheering to each other how good they are might not want to stop cheering for "minor reasons" because it just feels good. While doing wrong things they could "help" each other (which is supposedly a good thing but can do lot of harm too) with arguments that this wrongdoing would be ok or even "good' in this specific moment because of . alltogether spiralling downwards doing so more often every day. So all of them can go on wrongdoing while feeling well supported or even falsely feel superior in general.
however a figure (real/not real?) well known in india once said something like "it is better to calm down and just do your thing than to overreact". (this is the shortes version i've ever tried to compact it to but maybe you get the idea anyway).
i don't know the underlying things that make it a fact, plz share.
I love Indian culture and food, back in university I lived, studied and worked with quite a few Indian people and they all were kind, smart and very hospitable
I feel like quite large part of animosity towards Indian people (besides the usual racism) stems from the outsourcing of jobs there, especially with customer service, and even then going for the lowest offer
I've personally had both good and bad experiences with Indian customer service, but even with the bad experiences it's obvious that the problem is a lack of resources and not the worker
Unfortunately people are quick to blame the service worker instead of the organization, and this gives an acceptable excuse for their internalized racism
You said to not base the response on the people we know, but anything that I see from the news or read online doesn't reflect the people, it reflects the system
The only way to form an honest opinion of a group of people is to meet them, and even if all of those people somehow are the exception to the norm, they still represent and reflect their culture and where they come from
I have nothing wrong with it, my parents are from off the mainland.
India is a world leader when countries are ranked by population. It's time will come, as the middle class grows and imports from other nations increase, but that is not happening in the next 5 years in my opinion.
India's inability to remove the caste system leads IMHO to an equivalent of middle eastern country's inability to allow women a meaningful place in their society, and is a massive hindrance to reaching its potential socially and economically.
On the positive side, absolutely has the best cuisine in the world
Since no one else mentioned it, The Baha'i Lotus Temple in New Delhi is on my bucket list to visit. Absolutely gorgeous architecture.
An architect that was based in London when it was built said of the project, "such a building would be extremely difficult to build in London. In India it will prove impossible." Not only did you guys build it, but there were 0 workplace fatalities in the process of building it.
Horrible place and bad English.
hav darr yhou!? tbh I am working on improving my English much much more, I love the literary works and the poetry and I don't want my English to be a constraint while trying to read those works which require a higher level of English knowledge.
I heard your country outpopulated both China and my own country: The United States.
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/
I also hear the same things about those countries in particular, especially on Twitter anyway.
I don’t discuss world countries like that at all.
I’m religious, so I only believe what my religion (Christianity) says about the world itself.
I only believe what the Bible says only, but I do think it’s cool that your country is growing too.
It's one of the World's Great Civilizations, rather than just a country like Ireland is, it's got more historical importance and influence.
What's with the comparison?
Most countries are just countries. A few are major global influences.
I'm not sure why you have negative connotations towards your own identity. As an Indian myself, I love Celtic culture, especially revivalism of European paganism and witch-craft as an alternative sub-culture. And well, Irish people are based cuz they were anti-imperialist back then towards European colonies, have some really fascinating history with Native Ameicans, and even today, with how most ally towards Palestine. Ireland is probably one of the few countries I see in a very positive light. Oh, and Irish Coffee looks like something I'd love to try.
I don't understand why people are downvoting you, you are right!
I don't like people taking credit for something that happened in the past (they had nothing to do with it) but you are right in stating that.