A lot of conservatives think trrmp is a traitor, too.
I mean, they should. The evidence provides.
But they usually think he betrayed the extremes of their bigotries rather than the country and general decency.
That's good news for the coming election. But I still fear he won't ever be punished for his numerous crimes, the biggest yet to come, the pedo rape connections from the Epstein papers.
He's half a billion in the hole and is a historically convicted felon, he's definitely facing consequences. Also, his own zealots are shooting at him.
I want to see what happens with the election from fraud scheme.
My largest concern is the supreme Court granting the President actual immunity.
I keep hearing about some
pedophile case with Twermp here, but I don't know what everybody is talking about, did something new come out?
A judge released the Epstein papers recently, with the names all numbered 'doe', to protect the rich and famous pedophiles from the public eye. Sleuthers on the internet have match trumps movements and actions up to 'doe 174' as most likely as trump. Some suspect the shooter motives might be because of this reason.
Maybe what I saw was fake but I saw what seemed to be a legal document laying out that Trump and Epstein competed to see who could rape a 12 year old first, and Trump won.
I saw the same document. It was thoroughly disgusting and more or less describes what you said. I'm not making excuses for anyone, but they're also just allegations. I would very much like to see them demonstrated in a court of law, but I don't know that that's really possible at this point.
I thought that was a couple months ago now, but having been hearing a couple specific references and thought there was something new.
Thanks.
A judge released some grand jury files from the Epstein case recently, which brought new scrutiny on all the files from different related investigations. Trump is mentioned in many of them and some flight records show he flew on Epstein's plane several times. Apparently nothing that's conclusively incriminating.
I remember that from a little while ago, I've just been hearing so much specific pedo stuff about Trump that I thought there might be something new and more incriminating.
He was accused of raping that 13-year-old on Epstein Island, but even under anonymity her identity was discovered and apparently the woman who brought the suit received so many threats that she withdrew the lawsuit.
My father, a lifetime Republican before Trump, and still a rather fiscally conservative man, was actually conflicted on whether or it would have been better or worse if Trump had died on that stage. He openly calls the man a Fascist these days.
Trump may be a Republican, but it's actually rather generous to call him a Conservative.
It wouldn't surprise me if someone would think Trump's death might return us to the Conservatism of the past, but I think that's flawed. The Republican party has always been on the wrong side of social politics, and there's no turning back from the stain of fascism on the party.
The Republican party has always been on the wrong side of social politics
I mean, in 1865 they were pretty OK.
As weird as it sounds, I believe keeping trump alive is the best bet to win for the Democrats.
Agreed. Right now trump is a flailing baby. If he was dead they could use him as a symbol and say anything they want.
The shooter was supposedly a fan of history, a history buff. Let's assume the meme about men thinking about the Roman empire was true. The guy might've been a fan of democracy, looked at the fate of the Roman republic, saw the writing on the wall, and decided that he wanted to prevent that, and also make history in some way too.
Yea, he's definitely a nominal 'pub, but can't be conservative since he changes his political will constantly.
Twermp is liberally fascist.
Any strategy that will allow him to wield authoritarian power is worthy of pursuit for him.
They also said he was a terrible shot.
I'm not even kidding. He tried out for the school shooting club and they asked him not to come back because they considered his poor shooting and gun handling dangerous.
school shooting club
Maybe they should name it something else...
No, I think that's an accurate description
LMFAO! I had a feeling he was conservative. It don't know about a terrible shot, he got damn close but if his school had a shooting club he was probably still better than someone untrained but could still be bad enough not to make the team. Like when I got cut from golf, a no cut sport, half way through the first day
He's a bad shot because anyone with any bit of training or even youtube experience knows to aim center mass. More chance of hitting. I picked up shooting for sport in 2017 and can hit center mass with iron sites at the distance this kid was. With my cheapo scope, I can hit out to 300 yards.
He tried lolz x-gamer headshot and failed miserably.
Maybe he did aim for the center...
And that would be even worse for a stationary target.
He had a lot of shots, at least three, so I'm not even sure he aimed at the head. If the story about the policeman distracting him is true, it means a boy on adrenalin tried his best to keep his aim straight in a hurry. I believe hitting Trump at all was an accident.
This. I'm guessing that police man actually saved trumps life because the attempt had to be carried out in a rush and with at least a mild shock still in the system.
Trump was almost certainly wearing a vest
A hit to a vest definitely has a real chance to kill him. Vests distribute the impact, but they're still massive chest trauma for a 70-something dude.
Absolutely it could. Vest or no vest, I don't want to get shot. But "aim for center of mass" is only the rule of thumb when the center of mass is unprotected. Otherwise, it becomes "aim for the material specifically designed to stop bullets" which is not a great rule of thumb.
It also depends on the bullet and rifle, I kinda doubt there are many bullet proof vests that can br qord under clothes that can hold up against a .308.
But im gonna hazard a guess that some 20 year old trying to do an assassination was probably using an AR-15 chambered in 5.56. Which I would coin flip on if the vest could handle it or not.
No way would USSS be able to get his fat ass to wear a vest consistently, let alone the plates needed to stop a rifle round. In this heat?
Though I'm sure now he may reconsider, or be forced to.
Like all bullies, trump is a coward. Wouldn't blow my mind if he wore a vest before he even ran for president.
I believe their entire suit is probably lined for events like this.
Edit: so people stop with the dumb ‘scifi isn’t real’ BS about body armor, I was merely stating that there is definitely a possibility that he could be wearing small arms rated Kevlar under his suit, or have it sewn into his ridiculously oversized suit, and be wearing higher caliber plates protecting his center mass.
It isn’t unreasonable to think this, and it could make sense to take a headshot if you suspected the possibility of something like this, over going for the one shot chance of a center mass hit to kill your target.
Sure, I could have worded it better, but he COULD have small arms sewn into that terrible suit, and he COULD be wearing plates protecting his center mass.
There is no bulletproof tuxedo like in the movies. There is 5.56 ammo that will go through any soft armor.
… I’m not a foremost expert of anything, but I regularly work with some of this stuff. Nothing highly advanced or obscenely expensive, but enough to know that he could absolutely be wearing something that would make, at least, handguns to the center mass ineffective. Having not seen the guy naked and not knowing what his chest looks like under his oversized suit… I couldn’t tell you exactly, especially since I’m normally and regularly not interested in what protection he’s wearing, if or if he isn’t wearing a vest with a higher caliber plate.
It’s not ‘sewn’ in shit, scifi or bad story writing, armor I’m talking about. Do you really think the president of the US can’t have small arms rated Kevlar in his oversized suit, and a vest with a plate on underneath? He’s fat enough, and his suit is ill fitted enough, as it is, you wouldn’t even noticed.
Nothing that would line a suit and still have it look anything like a suit wouldn't protect against anything worth being protected against. A bulletproof vest isn't magic armor that makes you invulnerable. A shot from anything realistic would easily break multiple bones and cause internal damage. And that's with the bullet stopping at the vest.
A shot from anything realistic would easily break multiple bones and cause internal damage.
That seems marginally better than getting shot with no protection at all. It wouldn't blow my mind if they had some sort of protection on him.
No one said armor prevents any damage at all,
You're pulling that out of your ass. In fact other posts in this thread are talking about how even without penetration, the distributed force from armor stopping a bullet could still be fatal for a 70+ year old.
Back on the actual topic, Hacksmith made a bespoke suit that could stop small arms with publicly accessible materials for $100k. And all of their testing was at pretty close range.
It is not infeasible for a former President and current candidate's suit used during outdoor public events like this to have some sort of material to mitigate embedded in it, even if it isn't obviously won't provide the same protection as full armor. Every little bit helps.
Lined with what? As far as I've seen that's not really feasible with current materials.
Have you seen Trump's suits? Dude could be wearing half inch plate under that monstrosity.
Have you opened up standard Kevlar body armor and seen the Kevlar pieces? It’s entirely feasible to put those same pieces in his oversized suits. Obviously, those are for small arms. For his center mass they’d put higher caliber protective plates, as well.
People act like a bulletproof vest/suit is outlandish when we're talking about a guy who has a bulletproof car and like 25 snipers watching his back lol. When he was president he had anti aircraft guns on the roof of his house. The secret service takes their job really seriously.
I'm perplexed by the lack of a scope. I honestly think it was a machismo move. Wanted to try n headshot him with iron sights so people would talk about it or whatever. Maybe it was all he had, but I doubt it. There are articles saying he was a member at a local range and practiced there all the time. I'm sure he owned a scope. Maybe he didn't think he'd have time to line up a shot with a scope? Idk, it was just weird.
What merit is a person's political affiliations if they're mentally ill?
In this context, young men with mental health issues are the exact kinds of people to fall down the alt-right propaganda pipeline that the social media grifters are spewing, most commonly.
In my opinion though, his political affiliation is more important in the sense that it gives the copycat shooters and cultists less justification for the uptick we'll see in the coming weeks of attempted assassinations, death threats, and mass shootings (especially against democrats and minorities), though that's never stopped them before.
Actually, super relevant. It shoots down (pun intended) any attempt to blame this on Dems.
Straight to finger pointing, classic. Yes, let's figure out what political party the mentally ill child belonged too so we can blame it on that sides politics. Lol
They specifically said it was to refute those claims, not use them as a weapon.
Imagine if his motivation was to prove he had great aim and that they did him wrong. Maybe he just wanted to become the most well known sniper-assassin in the modern world. Maybe that's the reason he didn't use scope, he wanted his memory to be that of the rifle maverick. I wonder what went through his head after he realised he missed. I mean, other than a bullet.
He didn't use a scope?
I've heard that "no scope" detail elsewhere too. But would love to confirm it or have it disproven.
It is the detail that I keep coming back to that would indicate something about his state of mind, lack of rationality, lack of time, something.
Nope. He used an ar style rifle and nailed that shot 300 yards away. A fly fart could have been the difference between Trump's loss of hearing and his loss of brain.
I heard it was shrapnel and not a bullet that got Trump's ear.
It's like if Hitler was allowed to become an artist, except it's a kid wanting to shoot guns.
Do you have a source on the 'no scope' detail?
I'm not sure where exactly I've read or heard that, sorry. Those past 2 days were very information dense. I'm sure I've heard it being referenced a few times though, along with the gun having only iron sights.
Maybe he was aiming at a suspiciously Antifa-looking person in the crowd and missed?
"Those damn Antifas and their damn anti-fascist ways."
I need the sauce cause that's hilarious if it's true.
Yeah, I was discussing this with a friend. It's been 15 years since I fired an assault rifle, but 100 meters with iron sights was pretty easy.
He must either be an awful shot, or his sights must've been screwed up.
The first shot was pretty good, almost headshot at 100m+ is not bad at all with an iron sight, moving target and in "not firing range" condition. If he tried a headshot on purpose thats pretty good, not the smartest decision but still good accuracy.
“It makes me wonder why he would carry out an assassination attempt on the conservative candidate.”
Trump is the Republican candidate, but anyone young enough to actually believes in conservative talking points would not see him as a conservative candidate and would see him as a threat to the party.
If you believe the covid shot was deadly trump signed off on killing millions of people and even if he was tricked that means he's too dumb to be trusted
Are you saying the gunman believes that or is there something else covid relevant to the topic that I'm missing?
just that it's one reason a republican could dislike trump
That is true of some conservatives, which is obvious due to trumps continued popularity.
Some conservatives see trump as a bad conservative. Many see him as a good or even the best conservative.
Who's to say he didn't just want to die and take someone important out with him. In the mental state he was in at the time, he may not have even cared about politics.
I was thinking there's no proof he didn't do this to impress Jodie Foster. We may never completely understand
Narrator:
Jodie Foster was not impressed.
Are we sure?
Can somebody get her on the phone please, we need to get to the bottom of this...
He did it... for Johnny. This is like that movie Citizen Kane where you later find out Rosemary was a sled, but we'll never find out who Johnny is, cause, like, he's dead.
Context It's quite prescient because he did indeed catch the bullet right in the ear.
Rosebud
Crazy that that song was made before school shootings were even a thing
Hopefully he wrote something down somewhere that gives us an idea to his motivation, but you're absolutely right. We may never know. From the little bit that has come out about the shooter, it sure seems likely to be a typical case of a young man feeling isolated and angry at society. I'm certainly not convinced that politics had anything to do with it at this point.
He left a note saying it was to impress Taylor swift according to fox News proving is was a psyop
It was a horrible incident and there is no room for violence in politics…
That said, I am relieved to know that the shooter is neither an immigrant nor a person of color, or a trans person. And not someone on the left. The violent backlash from the right would be unbearable/unthinkable otherwise.
But, rifles are an old way of doing things, and predict that there will be more political violence through the next years.
It won't matter though, they'll still blame the left and say it was a false flag etc. Biden even connected this to the Gaza campus protests.
And not one Republican or prominent journalist will point out that this is mostly due to the decade of rhetoric from the conservatives that political violence is the answer.
First: As conservatives love bible quotes: Hosea 8,7: "They sow the wind and reap the whirlwind." Boy, did Trump sow wind everywhere. And Thomas Crooks simply was the whirlwind this time.
Second: Each and every year, about 50,000 people in the US die from guns, and politics f-ing does not care. Because they love the money from arms manufaturers and votes from the gun nuts more than the mostly innocent people who die. But once the wrong asshole gets his ear nicked by a bullet, they suddenly fall over themselves condemning violence.
I prefer to quote the profit Weir, in Estimations:7, quote "If you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind"
You're intentionally conflating suicides--which account for about 2/3 of gunshot deaths annually--and the violence that Trump has repeatedly called for. Both are concerning, but they're not the same, and should not be considered as such. "Simply" banning the tools of suicide does nothing to reduce the misery.
But gun prevalence increases suicide rates. People who would otherwise not commit suicide end up doing so because a quick and relatively easy way out is available. Should those guns not be so easily accessible, some percentage of those suicides wouldn't happen.
Those gun deaths are a problem regardless of whether they're suicide or homicide. And the gun lobby/Trump is perfectly happy with all that death as long as they get their sales/status quo/money. The deaths don't need to be the same for it to be relevant.
Different root cause, different way to correct the problem. Removing the tools doesn't solve the underlying problem. Perhaps the suicides don't happen; but that doesn't reduce the misery that leads to someone killing themselves.
And, again, this is wildly different from the violence that Trump supporters are being called to.
Removing the tools doesn’t solve the underlying problem. Perhaps the suicides don’t happen; but that doesn’t reduce the misery that leads to someone killing themselves.
Often times it leads to better outcomes though, which in the end solves the underlying problem. When people don't have an easy out and stick around long enough, usually the underlying problems get solved.
And, again, this is wildly different from the violence that Trump supporters are being called to.
Cool. I know. But it is irrelevant. Gun deaths are still gun deaths, and they should be prevented.
usually the underlying problems get solved.
That was not my experience. My experience is that I was hung out to dry and left to figure shit out on my own. I got hospitalized, released three days later, and then had two years of absolute hell. Most of the people I've known that were involuntarily held had much the same experience; as soon as the immediate crisis has passed, there's no support.
But sure, tell me what it's like being suicidal and how it's so much better for everyone around me that I'm still here.
EDIT: I'll keep my guns, thanks. Going out to shoot and compete is one of the few things that I have in my life that I really enjoy.
But sure, tell me what it’s like being suicidal
Nah, if you're gonna be antagonistic and gatekeepy like this, I'm not inclined to share my own experiences. You'll just find some reason to invalidate my own experiences and feelings. So I'm not gonna bother.
EDIT: I’ll keep my guns, thanks. Going out to shoot and compete is one of the few things that I have in my life that I really enjoy.
And in doing so you have significantly increased your chances of suicide.
Weird how it works in literally every country in the world, keep lying to yourselves though
Hangings, knives, carbon monoxide, jumping ... The means are still there.
Yes. But none of those are as easy. Hanging is a long slow death if you fuck it up. Knives are pretty slow too and require pain as you go. Carbon monoxide poisoning requires a car. Jumping requires guts. A gun is a nice easy button to end it. Few things can compare with how easy that is.
Regardless of how you want to rationalize it, the statistics show that I'm correct. Simply having a gun in the house increases your chances of suicide.
I wonder how many of your downvoters upvoted suicide nets without a thought toward improved working conditions and wages?
So…. Why then? Was he one of those rare conservatives that don’t like Trump? I think I’ve only ever met maybe one or two.
There is a growing movement within conservative groups that want Trump out of the way so a more competent politician can enact their crazy goals more effectively. Nick Fuentes is one example.
It is though any groups of people is not a monolith who perfectly toe the line with each other.
They usually don't talk about it because either they are lumped into trump supporters or attacked by the former for being a liberal pansy.
His Twitter page preached hate for Epstein and pedophiles.
Definitely not a Christian Conservative then.
that's reductionist and turns Christian conservatives into a one dimensional monolith. my parents are extreme conservative Christians, creationists, maga, the whole stupid 9. they hate pedophiles with a burning passion, my mom and i were both victims of them.
there's a whole problem with conservatives hating LGBT people because we've been lumped in with pedophiles for some reason, it's their whole schtick
We're not here to think or be reasonable, the goal is to be the most outraged.
fuck. i forgot
This is an online forum, not a political debate, do y'all not understand the social contexts and how figures of speech work? Everyone posts the same sad tired comment to appear like they've actually contributed something meaningful to jerk their own ego
You're just agreeing with me, but that makes me the bad guy for pointing it out.
The irony being that me saying be as outraged as possible is, of course, a figure of speech and not meant to be taken literally.
He had a twitter page??
Sorry, I saw a screenshot of Twitter. Seems to be Instagram, but so far unverified.
That's not him. the pic is a troll that immediately regretted spreading his own pic and posing as crooks.
This looks much more like the 'comedian' who was posting pretending to be him, and not actually the guy.
a comedian pretending to be the shooter, my god how thirsty for attention can you get
I've met the "I don't like Trump, but he's a Republican, so..." Variant.
That would be a big chuck of them. It seems many support him only because they fear retaliation from the anti-democratic red hats.
If he passed, how long before the red hat movement collapsed without him as its figurehead? How long before many conservatives started shifting/distancing themselves from his memory? I would guess not long at all.
The movement would collapse near instantaneously, as a slee of people would try to take his place and 20 heads would all try to control the hydra at once.
Problem with American politics is there tens of millions of people on both sides of the party split who abhor the candidate they've voted for but that's the candidate that won the primaries. So their options are vote their party, or waste their vote not voting, voting third party or voting the opposition party.
A conservative that hasn't been brainwashed. You don't see that very often these days.
I imagine there are a bunch of conservatives who dislike trump, especially ones whose family members have been completely sucked into the cult.
I think, looking at what has been published on him, it's pretty clear as to why he shot Trump. For one, his personality lended itself to a
hero complex. He was really nice, shy, intelligent, informed, and helpful. He clearly had respect for the Republican party, but given the info on his friend group, it was likely due to peer pressure. This is mostly made obvious by his political donation to the Progressive Turnout Project he made. A project that no conservative really should want to encourage.
In all likelihood, this guy saw the direction the States was headed in and realized there was no way to stop it from imploding without resorting to extreme political violence. I imagined he was upset with the fact that he wouldn't be able to do much through official channels in his life, so he made the ultimate sacrifice to will the change himself. That's why this guy's a hero in my books, not because he took a shot at Trump, but because he realized there's nothing any of us normies can do about the States' political situation through normal means, so he went above and beyond. He probably spent some time weighing the options as to whom to shoot, and realized Trump was the better pick.
Cynicism will definitely lead you to civil war. Go read up on the Spanish civil war. Their experience might come in handy. Political violence won't help you get out of this polarized mess, it will drag you in deeper.
If radical change is what's necessary. Then civil wars should be on the table. Besides, I'm sure the shooter's goal wasn't to depolarize the masses.
"civil war" in this country = the US military vs the side that gets obliterated inside of 1 week. the question is which side they will pick
Still, that sort of sacrifice should be expected if you want to make changes in your country (the US)
it's the people who are trying to STOP change, or undo it, who are talking about civil war.
Yah I mean, if your narrow understanding of what war is is Trumpets trying to take over the white house than yah, I guess one would hate the idea of using violence for the greater good.
so...given the implication that you have a broad comprehensive understanding of war, your solution is that we should just assassinate people we disagree with? make them martyrs?
gtfo dude
Side note, he didn't make that donation. It would have been illegal as he was 17 at the time, and the donation came from a 60+ year old in Philadelphia with the name Thomas Crooks, not his town of Bethel Park.
Apparently that little bit of trivia doesn't actually apply to the story, and the shooter did make the donation.
Thanks, I had seen the posts that they referenced floating around Lemmy
Yeah, it would have been nice if he hadn't done the donation.
Need a source on that or I'll just assume you're lying through your teeth. As literally every major news outlet is reporting he made that donation
I saw some posts about it yesterday on Lemmy, but apparently upon further digging there is a 69 year old Thomas Crooks of Pittsburgh, but he didn't make the donation. The donation was marked as coming from Pittsburgh which is close to Bethel Park. I've edited my post.
Your edit correct (most of this is directed at the user you are replying to) the kid from this weekend was 20 and the donation was made 3 years ago. It would have been illegal for him to make a campaign contribution at the age of 17, there is also a PA gov website that you can look up public campaign donations on (Its where this info came from). Im not able to locate the exact page, but screenshots have been circulating for a bit. In addition, there are updates that the FBI has gotten into his phone and the investigations interviews with his friends and family are starting to hit the news cycle.
Just be open minded that this is a developing story and that the general narrative will change.
That’s why this guy’s a hero in my books, not because he took a shot at Trump, but because he realized there’s nothing any of us normies can do about the States’ political situation through normal means, so he went above and beyond. He probably spent some time weighing the options as to whom to shoot, and realized Trump was the better pick.
I do wonder how much improvement there would be in the political situation in the US if Fox and the other channels spewing right-wing lies and fearmongering garbage went off the air?
While I'm sure there would be a net positive, it's also a completely absurd hypothetical. To get rid of hateful and rightwing propaganda networks, you'd have to completely change the political donor system in the US. You'd have to change the political landscape, you'd have to change the population, the rules on election and numerous other things.
You can't just get rid of something that's so beneficial to those in power. You have to completely remove that power in its entirety.
There's a Dr Who episode "The Long Game" from 2005 that kinda covers this.
this kind of speculation is pointless until more evidence is revealed.
Your opinion isn't based on anything... The conversation around that single, small donation to a "Progressive" cause is developing. Last I heard, speculation was that it was a known very spammy PAC and it was asking some ambiguous, more centrist survey question and then you could donate. People will turn their backs to a mountain of evidence to focus on a Pebble on the ground behind them.
Now reasonable assumption is A) he was tricked into donating to a cause he would never knowingly support B) He meant to graze and wound, but not kill to try to make trump a martyr C) He actually wanted to kill trump to incite a civil war or race war and figured trump would be down to be the pin on the grenade because he was delusional D) he was straight up mentally ill and he wanted trump to go meet Jesus quickly to get a medal or some shit.
What are you talking about dude? Have you read anything regarding the shooter?
Please update your mental narrative or stop wildly speculating and let the investigation run its course. If you want to sluthe yourself or "do your own research" here is the site to look up PA political donations, it was a simple google search away.
The donation in question was not made by the shooter, but by a different individual with a similar name 3 years ago. The shooter would have been 17 at the time, and thus unable to make such a contribtion.
One good deed does not redeem the entire sect
Was it really a good deed though? Because by missing, he gave Trump a shit load of political ammunition.
Trump is going to take this crisis and abuse it for every vote it gets him, and it's gonna get him a lot.
Trump is going to take this crisis and abuse it for every vote it gets him, and it’s gonna get him a lot.
So what you are saying is that Trump is a "Crisis Actor" lmao
Given that he is essentially unscathed, yes.
It's an interesting question. If someone could go back in time to try to shoot Hitler but ended up missing, would it still be a good deed?
Hardly an if, that's essentially what actually happened:
Fascists will always use a crisis to gain more power. If the Rechstag fire had actually killed Hitler, then yeah, it probably would have been a good thing. But in the end it didn't, it just gave Hitler more power. This situation with Trump isn't much different.
Granted, hindsight is a big factor here. But I think I've made my point.
He hasn't though. He buried this story with his VP pick and the documents case.
Trump burying news about him with more news about him is to his advantage. And I guarantee you Trump will continue milking the assassination attempt. It isn't buried by a long shot.
Yes it was a good deed even though it failed.
I think it’s more accurate to say it would’ve been a good deed. Rn it’s just good intentions.
If Trump were to trip down the stairs and break his neck, that would be one thing. Becoming a martyr is another. And becoming a martyr while still alive is even worse.
Hes only a martyr to the imbecilic koolaid drinkers. The rest of us see him as a cancer that needs drastic excision
OK but there are a fuckin lot of koolaid chuggers
Fair to Midland. His first election was because they didn't think they didn't need to show. Hopefully we convince people to show.
Yeah but half of Americans stand behind him lol
My money is the kid saw the 2025 agenda and despite being a conservative leaning person was still appalled at the idea people would vote for a fascist again.
My guess is it was the Epstein document releases.
I mean, possibly you'd have to be living under a rock to not have seen all the images of Trump and Epstein together.
But the investigators say he “had no strongly held political beliefs”.
IOW he’s republican and they don’t want to broadcast it?
Not saying the guy wasn't, but I'm pretty sure my former classmates would recall me as very conservative, and I changed a lot.
From like 2-3 years ago? My friends from that long ago would not get that info wrong. Former classmates from almost 2 decades ago might get it wrong.
Guy was 20, so if we're talking high school senior classmates, that's only 2-3 years of growth.
I changed a ton just the first 2 years of college. I had a real shitty time in high school and didn't come out of my shell until I got into an environment where I wasn't getting fucked with every time attention was focused on me. I didn't stay in touch with anyone from high school but the times I ran into people from then they often commented on how different I was. I definitely became a lot less conservative after I got out of that environment where I felt like almost everyone was my enemy.
I don't know anything about this dude but that's what happened with me.
That's why conservatives hate people getting educated at college. Being better educated tends to make them better people. Excuse me, I mean "more liberal".
This guy wasn't in college.
For me it wasn't really the college so much as not being in that environment where a lot of people treated me like shit at every opportunity and the rest stood by while it happened. Going into the workforce also helped and I would say either of those by themselves would have been sufficient. I went to technical college so there wasn't a lot of exposure to liberal ideas, just people treated me like I belonged instead of bullying the shit out of me or shunning me and that helped me become a much more well-adjusted individual. I'm not arguing one way or the other about the shooter because we have very little information. I'm only saying that it is possible for someone to change a lot in that timeframe.
Why are you arguing so hard that the registered Republican and gun nut who tried to kill Trump be on the left?
Are you trying to claim credit, or are you trying to assign blame? Either way, consider not carrying water for the MAGA conspiracists, and listen to the people who actually knew the guy.
Neither? I'm waiting for more of the story to come out. One kid he went to high school with isn't a reliable source. All I'm saying is my personal experience of changing a lot after I got out of a shitty high school. I know next to nothing about the shooter so I'm not making any claims as far as what his beliefs were one way or the other. It doesn't really matter what side he was on to me, the actions of one person don't reflect the whole group.
At 20, were you completely different than you were when you were in High School, or are you being generous to yourself because a lot more time has passed?
same. once the world starts to roll you, you get better perspectives.
When the years start coming, they don't stop coming. Kid may not have been the sharpest tool in the shed but he tried to be an all star. He got his game on and went and played.
His brain got smart but his head got dumb
So much to do, so much to see, so what's wrong with taking the headearshot
HEY now…
Hey now... don't dreeeam iiiiiit's over
I'm not sure why Trump-scale neofeudalistic reformist would be called conservative.
Thats just reaganism though.
Yeah. That's why he tried to assassinate the conservative candidate, right? Trying to associate someone who was mentally broken enough to attempt murder to an entire political bloc is missing the entire point.
You do know that he could have been a conservative that didn't like trump, right? They do exist. I mean from the 34 felony charges, his links to Epstein, his talking about being a dictator for a day, calling to terminate the constitution a few years back on a truth social post, and his violent rhetoric, there's a lot of reason for people who identify as conservative (The shooter's father is libertarian and he very well may have also been libertarian but registered as a Republican in order to vote in the primary) to not like trump.
It wouldn't be the first time a conservative did something violent for political goals. It won't be the last.
Do you have any idea how many abortion clinics have been bombed/shot at by conservatives?
A lot of conservatives think trrmp is a traitor, too.
I mean, they should. The evidence provides.
But they usually think he betrayed the extremes of their bigotries rather than the country and general decency.
That's good news for the coming election. But I still fear he won't ever be punished for his numerous crimes, the biggest yet to come, the pedo rape connections from the Epstein papers.
He's half a billion in the hole and is a historically convicted felon, he's definitely facing consequences. Also, his own zealots are shooting at him.
I want to see what happens with the election from fraud scheme.
My largest concern is the supreme Court granting the President actual immunity.
I keep hearing about some pedophile case with Twermp here, but I don't know what everybody is talking about, did something new come out?
A judge released the Epstein papers recently, with the names all numbered 'doe', to protect the rich and famous pedophiles from the public eye. Sleuthers on the internet have match trumps movements and actions up to 'doe 174' as most likely as trump. Some suspect the shooter motives might be because of this reason.
Maybe what I saw was fake but I saw what seemed to be a legal document laying out that Trump and Epstein competed to see who could rape a 12 year old first, and Trump won.
I saw the same document. It was thoroughly disgusting and more or less describes what you said. I'm not making excuses for anyone, but they're also just allegations. I would very much like to see them demonstrated in a court of law, but I don't know that that's really possible at this point.
I thought that was a couple months ago now, but having been hearing a couple specific references and thought there was something new.
Thanks.
A judge released some grand jury files from the Epstein case recently, which brought new scrutiny on all the files from different related investigations. Trump is mentioned in many of them and some flight records show he flew on Epstein's plane several times. Apparently nothing that's conclusively incriminating.
I remember that from a little while ago, I've just been hearing so much specific pedo stuff about Trump that I thought there might be something new and more incriminating.
He was accused of raping that 13-year-old on Epstein Island, but even under anonymity her identity was discovered and apparently the woman who brought the suit received so many threats that she withdrew the lawsuit.
So there is an actual case tied to him as well.
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/federal-judge-orders-hearing-in-donald-trump-rape-lawsuit-case/
My father, a lifetime Republican before Trump, and still a rather fiscally conservative man, was actually conflicted on whether or it would have been better or worse if Trump had died on that stage. He openly calls the man a Fascist these days.
Trump may be a Republican, but it's actually rather generous to call him a Conservative.
It wouldn't surprise me if someone would think Trump's death might return us to the Conservatism of the past, but I think that's flawed. The Republican party has always been on the wrong side of social politics, and there's no turning back from the stain of fascism on the party.
I mean, in 1865 they were pretty OK.
As weird as it sounds, I believe keeping trump alive is the best bet to win for the Democrats.
Agreed. Right now trump is a flailing baby. If he was dead they could use him as a symbol and say anything they want.
The shooter was supposedly a fan of history, a history buff. Let's assume the meme about men thinking about the Roman empire was true. The guy might've been a fan of democracy, looked at the fate of the Roman republic, saw the writing on the wall, and decided that he wanted to prevent that, and also make history in some way too.
Yea, he's definitely a nominal 'pub, but can't be conservative since he changes his political will constantly.
Twermp is liberally fascist.
Any strategy that will allow him to wield authoritarian power is worthy of pursuit for him.
They also said he was a terrible shot.
I'm not even kidding. He tried out for the school shooting club and they asked him not to come back because they considered his poor shooting and gun handling dangerous.
Maybe they should name it something else...
No, I think that's an accurate description
LMFAO! I had a feeling he was conservative. It don't know about a terrible shot, he got damn close but if his school had a shooting club he was probably still better than someone untrained but could still be bad enough not to make the team. Like when I got cut from golf, a no cut sport, half way through the first day
He's a bad shot because anyone with any bit of training or even youtube experience knows to aim center mass. More chance of hitting. I picked up shooting for sport in 2017 and can hit center mass with iron sites at the distance this kid was. With my cheapo scope, I can hit out to 300 yards.
He tried lolz x-gamer headshot and failed miserably.
Maybe he did aim for the center...
And that would be even worse for a stationary target.
He had a lot of shots, at least three, so I'm not even sure he aimed at the head. If the story about the policeman distracting him is true, it means a boy on adrenalin tried his best to keep his aim straight in a hurry. I believe hitting Trump at all was an accident.
This. I'm guessing that police man actually saved trumps life because the attempt had to be carried out in a rush and with at least a mild shock still in the system.
Trump was almost certainly wearing a vest
A hit to a vest definitely has a real chance to kill him. Vests distribute the impact, but they're still massive chest trauma for a 70-something dude.
Absolutely it could. Vest or no vest, I don't want to get shot. But "aim for center of mass" is only the rule of thumb when the center of mass is unprotected. Otherwise, it becomes "aim for the material specifically designed to stop bullets" which is not a great rule of thumb.
It also depends on the bullet and rifle, I kinda doubt there are many bullet proof vests that can br qord under clothes that can hold up against a .308.
But im gonna hazard a guess that some 20 year old trying to do an assassination was probably using an AR-15 chambered in 5.56. Which I would coin flip on if the vest could handle it or not.
No way would USSS be able to get his fat ass to wear a vest consistently, let alone the plates needed to stop a rifle round. In this heat?
Though I'm sure now he may reconsider, or be forced to.
Like all bullies, trump is a coward. Wouldn't blow my mind if he wore a vest before he even ran for president.
I believe their entire suit is probably lined for events like this.
Edit: so people stop with the dumb ‘scifi isn’t real’ BS about body armor, I was merely stating that there is definitely a possibility that he could be wearing small arms rated Kevlar under his suit, or have it sewn into his ridiculously oversized suit, and be wearing higher caliber plates protecting his center mass.
It isn’t unreasonable to think this, and it could make sense to take a headshot if you suspected the possibility of something like this, over going for the one shot chance of a center mass hit to kill your target.
Sure, I could have worded it better, but he COULD have small arms sewn into that terrible suit, and he COULD be wearing plates protecting his center mass.
There is no bulletproof tuxedo like in the movies. There is 5.56 ammo that will go through any soft armor.
… I’m not a foremost expert of anything, but I regularly work with some of this stuff. Nothing highly advanced or obscenely expensive, but enough to know that he could absolutely be wearing something that would make, at least, handguns to the center mass ineffective. Having not seen the guy naked and not knowing what his chest looks like under his oversized suit… I couldn’t tell you exactly, especially since I’m normally and regularly not interested in what protection he’s wearing, if or if he isn’t wearing a vest with a higher caliber plate.
It’s not ‘sewn’ in shit, scifi or bad story writing, armor I’m talking about. Do you really think the president of the US can’t have small arms rated Kevlar in his oversized suit, and a vest with a plate on underneath? He’s fat enough, and his suit is ill fitted enough, as it is, you wouldn’t even noticed.
Nothing that would line a suit and still have it look anything like a suit wouldn't protect against anything worth being protected against. A bulletproof vest isn't magic armor that makes you invulnerable. A shot from anything realistic would easily break multiple bones and cause internal damage. And that's with the bullet stopping at the vest.
That seems marginally better than getting shot with no protection at all. It wouldn't blow my mind if they had some sort of protection on him.
No one said armor prevents any damage at all,
You're pulling that out of your ass. In fact other posts in this thread are talking about how even without penetration, the distributed force from armor stopping a bullet could still be fatal for a 70+ year old.
Back on the actual topic, Hacksmith made a bespoke suit that could stop small arms with publicly accessible materials for $100k. And all of their testing was at pretty close range.
It is not infeasible for a former President and current candidate's suit used during outdoor public events like this to have some sort of material to mitigate embedded in it, even if it isn't obviously won't provide the same protection as full armor. Every little bit helps.
Lined with what? As far as I've seen that's not really feasible with current materials.
Have you seen Trump's suits? Dude could be wearing half inch plate under that monstrosity.
Have you opened up standard Kevlar body armor and seen the Kevlar pieces? It’s entirely feasible to put those same pieces in his oversized suits. Obviously, those are for small arms. For his center mass they’d put higher caliber protective plates, as well.
People act like a bulletproof vest/suit is outlandish when we're talking about a guy who has a bulletproof car and like 25 snipers watching his back lol. When he was president he had anti aircraft guns on the roof of his house. The secret service takes their job really seriously.
I'm perplexed by the lack of a scope. I honestly think it was a machismo move. Wanted to try n headshot him with iron sights so people would talk about it or whatever. Maybe it was all he had, but I doubt it. There are articles saying he was a member at a local range and practiced there all the time. I'm sure he owned a scope. Maybe he didn't think he'd have time to line up a shot with a scope? Idk, it was just weird.
What merit is a person's political affiliations if they're mentally ill?
In this context, young men with mental health issues are the exact kinds of people to fall down the alt-right propaganda pipeline that the social media grifters are spewing, most commonly.
In my opinion though, his political affiliation is more important in the sense that it gives the copycat shooters and cultists less justification for the uptick we'll see in the coming weeks of attempted assassinations, death threats, and mass shootings (especially against democrats and minorities), though that's never stopped them before.
I'm very glad LGBTQ* Pride was last month.
Actually, super relevant. It shoots down (pun intended) any attempt to blame this on Dems.
Straight to finger pointing, classic. Yes, let's figure out what political party the mentally ill child belonged too so we can blame it on that sides politics. Lol
They specifically said it was to refute those claims, not use them as a weapon.
Imagine if his motivation was to prove he had great aim and that they did him wrong. Maybe he just wanted to become the most well known sniper-assassin in the modern world. Maybe that's the reason he didn't use scope, he wanted his memory to be that of the rifle maverick. I wonder what went through his head after he realised he missed. I mean, other than a bullet.
He didn't use a scope?
I've heard that "no scope" detail elsewhere too. But would love to confirm it or have it disproven.
It is the detail that I keep coming back to that would indicate something about his state of mind, lack of rationality, lack of time, something.
Nope. He used an ar style rifle and nailed that shot 300 yards away. A fly fart could have been the difference between Trump's loss of hearing and his loss of brain.
I heard it was shrapnel and not a bullet that got Trump's ear.
It's like if Hitler was allowed to become an artist, except it's a kid wanting to shoot guns.
Do you have a source on the 'no scope' detail?
I'm not sure where exactly I've read or heard that, sorry. Those past 2 days were very information dense. I'm sure I've heard it being referenced a few times though, along with the gun having only iron sights.
Maybe he was aiming at a suspiciously Antifa-looking person in the crowd and missed?
"Those damn Antifas and their damn anti-fascist ways."
I need the sauce cause that's hilarious if it's true.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/classmate-trump-shooter-thomas-matthew-074729136.html
Thank you CaptianKickass!!
Oh that makes it even funnier holy shit
Yeah, I was discussing this with a friend. It's been 15 years since I fired an assault rifle, but 100 meters with iron sights was pretty easy.
He must either be an awful shot, or his sights must've been screwed up.
The first shot was pretty good, almost headshot at 100m+ is not bad at all with an iron sight, moving target and in "not firing range" condition. If he tried a headshot on purpose thats pretty good, not the smartest decision but still good accuracy.
Trump is the Republican candidate, but anyone young enough to actually believes in conservative talking points would not see him as a conservative candidate and would see him as a threat to the party.
If you believe the covid shot was deadly trump signed off on killing millions of people and even if he was tricked that means he's too dumb to be trusted
Are you saying the gunman believes that or is there something else covid relevant to the topic that I'm missing?
just that it's one reason a republican could dislike trump
That is true of some conservatives, which is obvious due to trumps continued popularity.
Some conservatives see trump as a bad conservative. Many see him as a good or even the best conservative.
Who's to say he didn't just want to die and take someone important out with him. In the mental state he was in at the time, he may not have even cared about politics.
I was thinking there's no proof he didn't do this to impress Jodie Foster. We may never completely understand
Narrator:
Jodie Foster was not impressed.
Are we sure?
Can somebody get her on the phone please, we need to get to the bottom of this...
He did it... for Johnny. This is like that movie Citizen Kane where you later find out Rosemary was a sled, but we'll never find out who Johnny is, cause, like, he's dead.
Context It's quite prescient because he did indeed catch the bullet right in the ear.
Rosebud
Crazy that that song was made before school shootings were even a thing
Hopefully he wrote something down somewhere that gives us an idea to his motivation, but you're absolutely right. We may never know. From the little bit that has come out about the shooter, it sure seems likely to be a typical case of a young man feeling isolated and angry at society. I'm certainly not convinced that politics had anything to do with it at this point.
He left a note saying it was to impress Taylor swift according to fox News proving is was a psyop
It was a horrible incident and there is no room for violence in politics…
That said, I am relieved to know that the shooter is neither an immigrant nor a person of color, or a trans person. And not someone on the left. The violent backlash from the right would be unbearable/unthinkable otherwise.
But, rifles are an old way of doing things, and predict that there will be more political violence through the next years.
It won't matter though, they'll still blame the left and say it was a false flag etc. Biden even connected this to the Gaza campus protests.
And not one Republican or prominent journalist will point out that this is mostly due to the decade of rhetoric from the conservatives that political violence is the answer.
First: As conservatives love bible quotes: Hosea 8,7: "They sow the wind and reap the whirlwind." Boy, did Trump sow wind everywhere. And Thomas Crooks simply was the whirlwind this time.
Second: Each and every year, about 50,000 people in the US die from guns, and politics f-ing does not care. Because they love the money from arms manufaturers and votes from the gun nuts more than the mostly innocent people who die. But once the wrong asshole gets his ear nicked by a bullet, they suddenly fall over themselves condemning violence.
I prefer to quote the profit Weir, in Estimations:7, quote "If you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind"
You're intentionally conflating suicides--which account for about 2/3 of gunshot deaths annually--and the violence that Trump has repeatedly called for. Both are concerning, but they're not the same, and should not be considered as such. "Simply" banning the tools of suicide does nothing to reduce the misery.
But gun prevalence increases suicide rates. People who would otherwise not commit suicide end up doing so because a quick and relatively easy way out is available. Should those guns not be so easily accessible, some percentage of those suicides wouldn't happen.
Those gun deaths are a problem regardless of whether they're suicide or homicide. And the gun lobby/Trump is perfectly happy with all that death as long as they get their sales/status quo/money. The deaths don't need to be the same for it to be relevant.
Different root cause, different way to correct the problem. Removing the tools doesn't solve the underlying problem. Perhaps the suicides don't happen; but that doesn't reduce the misery that leads to someone killing themselves.
And, again, this is wildly different from the violence that Trump supporters are being called to.
Often times it leads to better outcomes though, which in the end solves the underlying problem. When people don't have an easy out and stick around long enough, usually the underlying problems get solved.
Cool. I know. But it is irrelevant. Gun deaths are still gun deaths, and they should be prevented.
That was not my experience. My experience is that I was hung out to dry and left to figure shit out on my own. I got hospitalized, released three days later, and then had two years of absolute hell. Most of the people I've known that were involuntarily held had much the same experience; as soon as the immediate crisis has passed, there's no support.
But sure, tell me what it's like being suicidal and how it's so much better for everyone around me that I'm still here.
EDIT: I'll keep my guns, thanks. Going out to shoot and compete is one of the few things that I have in my life that I really enjoy.
Nah, if you're gonna be antagonistic and gatekeepy like this, I'm not inclined to share my own experiences. You'll just find some reason to invalidate my own experiences and feelings. So I'm not gonna bother.
And in doing so you have significantly increased your chances of suicide.
Weird how it works in literally every country in the world, keep lying to yourselves though
Hangings, knives, carbon monoxide, jumping ... The means are still there.
Yes. But none of those are as easy. Hanging is a long slow death if you fuck it up. Knives are pretty slow too and require pain as you go. Carbon monoxide poisoning requires a car. Jumping requires guts. A gun is a nice easy button to end it. Few things can compare with how easy that is.
Regardless of how you want to rationalize it, the statistics show that I'm correct. Simply having a gun in the house increases your chances of suicide.
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-ownership-associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html
I wonder how many of your downvoters upvoted suicide nets without a thought toward improved working conditions and wages?
So…. Why then? Was he one of those rare conservatives that don’t like Trump? I think I’ve only ever met maybe one or two.
There is a growing movement within conservative groups that want Trump out of the way so a more competent politician can enact their crazy goals more effectively. Nick Fuentes is one example.
It is though any groups of people is not a monolith who perfectly toe the line with each other.
They usually don't talk about it because either they are lumped into trump supporters or attacked by the former for being a liberal pansy.
His Twitter page preached hate for Epstein and pedophiles.
Definitely not a Christian Conservative then.
that's reductionist and turns Christian conservatives into a one dimensional monolith. my parents are extreme conservative Christians, creationists, maga, the whole stupid 9. they hate pedophiles with a burning passion, my mom and i were both victims of them.
there's a whole problem with conservatives hating LGBT people because we've been lumped in with pedophiles for some reason, it's their whole schtick
We're not here to think or be reasonable, the goal is to be the most outraged.
fuck. i forgot
This is an online forum, not a political debate, do y'all not understand the social contexts and how figures of speech work? Everyone posts the same sad tired comment to appear like they've actually contributed something meaningful to jerk their own ego
Reminds me of that key and Peele sketch
You're just agreeing with me, but that makes me the bad guy for pointing it out.
The irony being that me saying be as outraged as possible is, of course, a figure of speech and not meant to be taken literally.
He had a twitter page??
Sorry, I saw a screenshot of Twitter. Seems to be Instagram, but so far unverified.
That's not him. the pic is a troll that immediately regretted spreading his own pic and posing as crooks.
This looks much more like the 'comedian' who was posting pretending to be him, and not actually the guy.
a comedian pretending to be the shooter, my god how thirsty for attention can you get
I've met the "I don't like Trump, but he's a Republican, so..." Variant.
That would be a big chuck of them. It seems many support him only because they fear retaliation from the anti-democratic red hats.
If he passed, how long before the red hat movement collapsed without him as its figurehead? How long before many conservatives started shifting/distancing themselves from his memory? I would guess not long at all.
The movement would collapse near instantaneously, as a slee of people would try to take his place and 20 heads would all try to control the hydra at once.
Problem with American politics is there tens of millions of people on both sides of the party split who abhor the candidate they've voted for but that's the candidate that won the primaries. So their options are vote their party, or waste their vote not voting, voting third party or voting the opposition party.
A conservative that hasn't been brainwashed. You don't see that very often these days.
I imagine there are a bunch of conservatives who dislike trump, especially ones whose family members have been completely sucked into the cult.
I think, looking at what has been published on him, it's pretty clear as to why he shot Trump. For one, his personality lended itself to a hero complex. He was really nice, shy, intelligent, informed, and helpful. He clearly had respect for the Republican party, but given the info on his friend group, it was likely due to peer pressure. This is mostly made obvious by his political donation to the Progressive Turnout Project he made. A project that no conservative really should want to encourage.
In all likelihood, this guy saw the direction the States was headed in and realized there was no way to stop it from imploding without resorting to extreme political violence. I imagined he was upset with the fact that he wouldn't be able to do much through official channels in his life, so he made the ultimate sacrifice to will the change himself. That's why this guy's a hero in my books, not because he took a shot at Trump, but because he realized there's nothing any of us normies can do about the States' political situation through normal means, so he went above and beyond. He probably spent some time weighing the options as to whom to shoot, and realized Trump was the better pick.
Cynicism will definitely lead you to civil war. Go read up on the Spanish civil war. Their experience might come in handy. Political violence won't help you get out of this polarized mess, it will drag you in deeper.
If radical change is what's necessary. Then civil wars should be on the table. Besides, I'm sure the shooter's goal wasn't to depolarize the masses.
"civil war" in this country = the US military vs the side that gets obliterated inside of 1 week. the question is which side they will pick
Still, that sort of sacrifice should be expected if you want to make changes in your country (the US)
it's the people who are trying to STOP change, or undo it, who are talking about civil war.
Yah I mean, if your narrow understanding of what war is is Trumpets trying to take over the white house than yah, I guess one would hate the idea of using violence for the greater good.
so...given the implication that you have a broad comprehensive understanding of war, your solution is that we should just assassinate people we disagree with? make them martyrs?
gtfo dude
Side note, he didn't make that donation. It would have been illegal as he was 17 at the time, and the donation came from a 60+ year old in Philadelphia with the name Thomas Crooks, not his town of Bethel Park.Apparently that little bit of trivia doesn't actually apply to the story, and the shooter did make the donation.
Seems like he did it
Thanks, I had seen the posts that they referenced floating around Lemmy
Yeah, it would have been nice if he hadn't done the donation.
Need a source on that or I'll just assume you're lying through your teeth. As literally every major news outlet is reporting he made that donation
I saw some posts about it yesterday on Lemmy, but apparently upon further digging there is a 69 year old Thomas Crooks of Pittsburgh, but he didn't make the donation. The donation was marked as coming from Pittsburgh which is close to Bethel Park. I've edited my post.
Your edit correct (most of this is directed at the user you are replying to) the kid from this weekend was 20 and the donation was made 3 years ago. It would have been illegal for him to make a campaign contribution at the age of 17, there is also a PA gov website that you can look up public campaign donations on (Its where this info came from). Im not able to locate the exact page, but screenshots have been circulating for a bit. In addition, there are updates that the FBI has gotten into his phone and the investigations interviews with his friends and family are starting to hit the news cycle.
Just be open minded that this is a developing story and that the general narrative will change.
I do wonder how much improvement there would be in the political situation in the US if Fox and the other channels spewing right-wing lies and fearmongering garbage went off the air?
While I'm sure there would be a net positive, it's also a completely absurd hypothetical. To get rid of hateful and rightwing propaganda networks, you'd have to completely change the political donor system in the US. You'd have to change the political landscape, you'd have to change the population, the rules on election and numerous other things.
You can't just get rid of something that's so beneficial to those in power. You have to completely remove that power in its entirety.
There's a Dr Who episode "The Long Game" from 2005 that kinda covers this.
this kind of speculation is pointless until more evidence is revealed.
Your opinion isn't based on anything... The conversation around that single, small donation to a "Progressive" cause is developing. Last I heard, speculation was that it was a known very spammy PAC and it was asking some ambiguous, more centrist survey question and then you could donate. People will turn their backs to a mountain of evidence to focus on a Pebble on the ground behind them.
Now reasonable assumption is A) he was tricked into donating to a cause he would never knowingly support B) He meant to graze and wound, but not kill to try to make trump a martyr C) He actually wanted to kill trump to incite a civil war or race war and figured trump would be down to be the pin on the grenade because he was delusional D) he was straight up mentally ill and he wanted trump to go meet Jesus quickly to get a medal or some shit.
What are you talking about dude? Have you read anything regarding the shooter?
https://www.campaignfinanceonline.pa.gov/Pages/CFReportSearch.aspx
Please update your mental narrative or stop wildly speculating and let the investigation run its course. If you want to sluthe yourself or "do your own research" here is the site to look up PA political donations, it was a simple google search away.
The donation in question was not made by the shooter, but by a different individual with a similar name 3 years ago. The shooter would have been 17 at the time, and thus unable to make such a contribtion.
One good deed does not redeem the entire sect
Was it really a good deed though? Because by missing, he gave Trump a shit load of political ammunition.
Trump is going to take this crisis and abuse it for every vote it gets him, and it's gonna get him a lot.
So what you are saying is that Trump is a "Crisis Actor" lmao
Given that he is essentially unscathed, yes.
It's an interesting question. If someone could go back in time to try to shoot Hitler but ended up missing, would it still be a good deed?
Hardly an if, that's essentially what actually happened:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire
Fascists will always use a crisis to gain more power. If the Rechstag fire had actually killed Hitler, then yeah, it probably would have been a good thing. But in the end it didn't, it just gave Hitler more power. This situation with Trump isn't much different.
Granted, hindsight is a big factor here. But I think I've made my point.
He hasn't though. He buried this story with his VP pick and the documents case.
Trump burying news about him with more news about him is to his advantage. And I guarantee you Trump will continue milking the assassination attempt. It isn't buried by a long shot.
Yes it was a good deed even though it failed.
I think it’s more accurate to say it would’ve been a good deed. Rn it’s just good intentions.
If Trump were to trip down the stairs and break his neck, that would be one thing. Becoming a martyr is another. And becoming a martyr while still alive is even worse.
Hes only a martyr to the imbecilic koolaid drinkers. The rest of us see him as a cancer that needs drastic excision
OK but there are a fuckin lot of koolaid chuggers
Fair to Midland. His first election was because they didn't think they didn't need to show. Hopefully we convince people to show.
Yeah but half of Americans stand behind him lol
My money is the kid saw the 2025 agenda and despite being a conservative leaning person was still appalled at the idea people would vote for a fascist again.
My guess is it was the Epstein document releases.
I mean, possibly you'd have to be living under a rock to not have seen all the images of Trump and Epstein together.
But the investigators say he “had no strongly held political beliefs”.
IOW he’s republican and they don’t want to broadcast it?
Not saying the guy wasn't, but I'm pretty sure my former classmates would recall me as very conservative, and I changed a lot.
From like 2-3 years ago? My friends from that long ago would not get that info wrong. Former classmates from almost 2 decades ago might get it wrong.
Guy was 20, so if we're talking high school senior classmates, that's only 2-3 years of growth.
I changed a ton just the first 2 years of college. I had a real shitty time in high school and didn't come out of my shell until I got into an environment where I wasn't getting fucked with every time attention was focused on me. I didn't stay in touch with anyone from high school but the times I ran into people from then they often commented on how different I was. I definitely became a lot less conservative after I got out of that environment where I felt like almost everyone was my enemy.
I don't know anything about this dude but that's what happened with me.
That's why conservatives hate people getting educated at college. Being better educated tends to make them better people. Excuse me, I mean "more liberal".
This guy wasn't in college.
For me it wasn't really the college so much as not being in that environment where a lot of people treated me like shit at every opportunity and the rest stood by while it happened. Going into the workforce also helped and I would say either of those by themselves would have been sufficient. I went to technical college so there wasn't a lot of exposure to liberal ideas, just people treated me like I belonged instead of bullying the shit out of me or shunning me and that helped me become a much more well-adjusted individual. I'm not arguing one way or the other about the shooter because we have very little information. I'm only saying that it is possible for someone to change a lot in that timeframe.
Why are you arguing so hard that the registered Republican and gun nut who tried to kill Trump be on the left?
Are you trying to claim credit, or are you trying to assign blame? Either way, consider not carrying water for the MAGA conspiracists, and listen to the people who actually knew the guy.
Neither? I'm waiting for more of the story to come out. One kid he went to high school with isn't a reliable source. All I'm saying is my personal experience of changing a lot after I got out of a shitty high school. I know next to nothing about the shooter so I'm not making any claims as far as what his beliefs were one way or the other. It doesn't really matter what side he was on to me, the actions of one person don't reflect the whole group.
At 20, were you completely different than you were when you were in High School, or are you being generous to yourself because a lot more time has passed?
same. once the world starts to roll you, you get better perspectives.
When the years start coming, they don't stop coming. Kid may not have been the sharpest tool in the shed but he tried to be an all star. He got his game on and went and played.
His brain got smart but his head got dumb
So much to do, so much to see, so what's wrong with taking the
headearshotHEY now…
Hey now... don't dreeeam iiiiiit's over
I'm not sure why Trump-scale neofeudalistic reformist would be called conservative.
Thats just reaganism though.
Yeah. That's why he tried to assassinate the conservative candidate, right? Trying to associate someone who was mentally broken enough to attempt murder to an entire political bloc is missing the entire point.
You do know that he could have been a conservative that didn't like trump, right? They do exist. I mean from the 34 felony charges, his links to Epstein, his talking about being a dictator for a day, calling to terminate the constitution a few years back on a truth social post, and his violent rhetoric, there's a lot of reason for people who identify as conservative (The shooter's father is libertarian and he very well may have also been libertarian but registered as a Republican in order to vote in the primary) to not like trump.
It wouldn't be the first time a conservative did something violent for political goals. It won't be the last.
Do you have any idea how many abortion clinics have been bombed/shot at by conservatives?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer_kidnapping_plot
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/nancy-pelosi-husband-paul-attack/index.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tucson_shooting
https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/what-nij-research-tells-us-about-domestic-terrorism
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/far-right-violence-a-growing-threat-and-law-enforcements-top-domestic-terrorism-concern