Imagine looking around that classroom and thinking "All is right with this".
Not just "all is right". They see this and think "this is what God wants."
That's the thing with religious people. They don't think. They're told this is what God wants and that's the end of it. That's why it's so important to keep churches out of government.
Allah wants.
If you didn't know, they're the same thing.
I know but I think it is important to emphasize. God as an abstract concept is not as bad as God as the personal total micromanaging god of Islam.
Neither is an abstract concept. They are the same exact deity from the same story and the same origin.
No they aren't. There is a lot of difference between an Enlightenment era diest god, a local tribal god, and a triomni god.
What do you care anyhow? It isn't like Islam is monotheistic. They have Satan and dijins.
You're talking about God (such as the god of Islam and Catholicism, which is the same god) and gods, as in the concept of a god, which encompasses sun gods, Aztec gods, etc etc.
Usually I find how you capitalise matters here. God with a capital is a name, and talking about the "God" most people talk about.
A god, on the other hand, well you get the idea.
Anyway in this case we're talking about the god of Islam, Christianity, Catholicism, etc. This god is the same god, and in English we would call that god "God". Allah is that god's name in another language. But it's the same deity.
It really isn't. The Christian god is the threefold Trinity which is not at all like Allah.
Islam's Allah is a fanfic of the Christian Trinity, though reduces it back to a single entity and demotes Jesus to prophet. The Christian Trinity is a fanfic of the Jewish god Yahweh.
The members of the three groups disagree about what is canon, but they refer to the same entity.
They really don't. I don't know what the motivation behind this reasoning is but there just isn't a basis for it.
I especially like that guy in the back. That could be the teacher, but I guess that it's someone who observes that the God is feared enough and nothing disallowed happens.
Makes me wonder how one makes such career choices, too
"Welp, time to suck off the people who put me in this position!"
I'm pretty sure that's against the teachings of Islam.
They must thank Allah every day for America's Oligarchy gifting the military industrial complex trillions of dollars of tax payer money, and occupying their country for decades, to end up stuck in the same prison as their parents... Instead of the darkest timeline — universal healthcare and climate action!
At least it was a chance. We certainly fucked up in Afghanistan but it's not like the Taliban came back from nowhere.
People act like the Afghani army that the US spent years trying to rebuild didn't just up and run away.
If you raise your kids to believe in Allah you are setting up your grandchildren to live like this. Oppose religion, wherever you see it.
You can't just equate religion with fascism. Not that I think religion is ethical or even separable from fascism, but they aren't the same. Plenty of people practice religion without resorting to extremism.
I don't think I did. Cancer and heart disease are not the same despite both having very similar results given enough time.
You implied that religion necessarily results in fascism.
If I did I am sorry. There is no way I can make a claim like that. If nothing else the world could end long before the process finished. There is a link between the two but it does not mean that a society with monotheism will have to, 100% of the time with no exceptions, eventually become a fascist one.
Not just exclusive to Islam. This is what Christians are actively working to make happen in the US.
All organized religion is ripe for abuse by its uncontrollable masters. It's almost like communism in that!
Allah is the God in Christianity though
What?
Not the commenter, but I assume they talk about the nature of Abrahamic religions.
Technically, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are just three updates of the same religion. First came Torah, then it got transformed into the Old Testament and completed with the New one to get the Bible, and then Bible itself got completed to get Quran.
With that came one abrahamic God - referred to as Yahweh in Judaism, Trinity in Christianity (note: Islam goes back and denies Trinity and godly nature of Jesus, calling him a prophet, not element of God, and rolling back on Holy Spirit, too, reinstating Father God as the only source of godly power), and Allah in Islam.
Thereby cancelling Allah means also cancelling Trinity and Yahweh, as they're actually one and the same.
Before mankind was rebooting film franchises it was rebooting religions.
Well that's pretty reductionist, and bigoted. If you're going to judge Muslims by their extremists then you can't leave out the Christians and Jews. Hell Jewish extremists in Israel are committing genocide as we speak.
Yes those as well.
They said religion, not just Islam.
And yet they specifically reference Allah. And elsewhere in the comment section they try and say Allah is different from the Judeo-Christian "God".
You're allowed to use a specific example to make a general point.
Funny how that seems to happen with minorities and Islam but not white people.
You're the only person concerned about race here. Stop being racist.
That's literally a line used against people protesting for minority rights. It's not racist to call out problematic stuff.
You're the problematic stuff and we're calling you out.
Oh right, because you know me? I haven't said a damn thing about women's rights but to demonstrate how easy it is to lay fears of bigotry to rest... I believe all humans are created equal and should be treated equally. I also believe using extremists to paint entire groups is bigotry.
See? Super easy. Instead y'all seem to be going all in on Islamophobia.
Literally nobody mentioned race.
And aside from that, you're wrong anyway. People criticise "white" religious beliefs too. A lot.
Like, you've never heard people hating on the catholic church and the people who support it for turning a blind eye to sex abuse scandals? Seriously?
Or about the religious Christian crazies in the US? You've never heard about that?
Or the cult that is Scientology? Is that something you're unfamiliar with?
Fuck off with this trying to frame criticising a religion or pointing out its harmful effects as being racial bigotry.
It's not racism, and you know it isn't. You're just indirectly supporting actual bigotry that Islam pushes against women, LGBT people, and non-believers.
Yes. Specific things about Christianity are complained about. That doesn't mean bigots aren't out there spreading islamophobia.
Oh look an example of someone using an extremist group to paint all Muslims. And trying to cover it with the weird religions in there once.
And if you think race is the only kind of bigotry going, I have a bridge to sell you.
Bullshit. People openly disparage and mock Christianity all the time. The difference is that nobody ever gets killed for it. Islam is in dire need of reform. Pointing that out is not a form of bigotry.
Specific things about Christianity are complained about.
Everything is complained about. More widely than Islam, too.
That doesn't mean bigots aren't out there spreading islamophobia.
Who said they weren't? This is a complete strawman. I never said nobody hates Muslims, I said complaining about Islam is not bigotry, and you bringing race into this and playing the "if you criticise this you're a RACIST" is pathetic.
And if you think race is the only kind of bigotry going, I have a bridge to sell you.
Never said that. That's another strawman.
I think you'll find I explicitly mentioned homophobia, misogyny, and hatred of infidels in my comment. All things absolutely rife in Islam. And yet, here you are indirectly condoning those viewpoints.
I'm a bisexual Indian immigrant. I'm very, very well aware of bigotry. And complaining about backwards hateful religious rhetoric isn't bigotry.
What a disgusting bigot you are. Throwing groups that are treated as subhuman by Islamic institutions under the bus just so you can have some falsified moral high ground by calling everybody who doesn't like Islamic extremism a racist.
White people can't be Muslim?
Christianity is literally the most critiqued religion in the west lol
As they control Congress?
"The West" != southern/middle USA.
Nice try.
In a post about Muslims oppressing people, someone references Allah.
Who the f cares? Allah and Jahweh and trinity are all just made up feel good stories to ABUSE HUMANS
Because most Islamophobes are religious extremists themselves.
Nope, not at all. All of France Holland Germany Nordic are NOT religious and we have some decades of experience with the islamites. Blegh
Lmao. I'm sorry, your argument is you're not religious extremist, you're just a racist?
Oh God, that's the laugh I needed.
Especially because there's still 10-20 percent depending on your country. And you're just falling into the propaganda created by the extremists among them.
No, 10-20% are religious but those coincide with dumb ppl who make up 30-40% of nay population and include racist AND ZIONISTS and extreme leftist etc.
Yup all religious people are dumb. Sure thing. Just keep digging that hole.
Well, yes.
But the Muslim, Christian, and Jewish god is the same deity. So "Allah" refers to the god of all 3 religions.
The evidence of religion ruling people's lives is right in front of you and you act like we are drawing conclusions from nothing.
hur dur religion bad
read a book
As long as its not a fucking religious text.
Religion can be toxic, but so can non-religious nations like Russia under Putin.
The real shit is money and power - those are what kill and lie and steal from the billions of us who haven't yet got to the point of revolution.
If nothing else we know it's coming ... and when it does it'll be massive and worldwide.
Putin embraces the Russian Orthodox Church as part of his nationalism. Also, Russia is only 13% atheist. Hardly a non-religious nation.
But, you're right, power is the real point. Religion is just one of the most hateful methods of justifying and maintaining power.
Democracy with socially regulated capitalism, in our experience, has a lighter touch and has thus far provided a lot of benefits to the vast majority of people.
You mention revolution, but don't specify from what or to what? Revolutions have a way of not going quite the way the idealists hope they will.
Russia is 72% Eastern Orthodox by population. The US is estimated to be ~63% split between flavors of christianity, for comparison.
So, you’re close but wrong country. Russia tried to get rid of religion but failed. The Russian Orthodox Church just kind of became part of the government. That’s why you see the priests blessing Russian weapons and stuff.
China on the other hand did get rid of religion pretty successfully. The reason communism strives to get rid of religion is because when people aren’t arguing over who’s imaginary supernatural friend loves his people more. It’s easier to get them to agree on things.
Now, I’m not going to pretend that this is a perfect plan. After all successfully getting rid of religion comes with a whole new set of pitfalls. But, I personally think the pros outweigh the cons.
Religion can be toxic, but so can non-religious nations like Russia under Putin.
You can die from snake venom. That doesn't mean cancer is harmless.
I get what previous commenter said: the problem is the people with power wanting to control the population, religion is just the means to an end (sorry if this is not the correct way to say it).
In my way of seeing it, religion as always been a cover to interests of the powerful, a way to keep the population controlled, or dumbed down. In the example of this thread, they are openly using this strategy by cutting access to education.
Bad people do bad things.
But for a good person to do bad things, that takes religion.
But for a good person to do bad things, that takes religion.
This sounds like it's a prerequisite to be good before becoming religious ... which historically is not the case.
Child molesters who entered the priesthood were not "good" before using the shelter of the Church to rape children.
Being "good" or "bad" is a conscious, moral decision which is maintained by every person choosing what is of the utmost importance for their life ... selfish fulfillment or altruism.
... this is, ofc, setting aside mental health issues that do not allow some to make rational conscious decisions.
This sounds like it’s a prerequisite to be good before becoming religious … which historically is not the case.
No, it's saying if you are good, religion can make you do bad and that bad people will do bad regardless of religion.
read a book
Bible, Koran, Torah, Book of Mormon, The Vedas... you know there’s actually a lot of objectionable shit in all of these.
I wonder if you meant some other books that support your ideals, jokes on me for reading the source materials instead I suppose.
Like the ones the Afghan schoolgirls won't be allowed to read?
Yeesh, I'd recommend the same to you.
Yes sir! Only Bible!
Anyway, pretty fucking weird society where they have to wrap 6th grade girls from head to toe to avoid feeling attracted to them.
Religion is bad and what book would you have us read?
Religions are as dumb as the people who believe them?
Religions can be harmful for certain dumb people who believe them. It’s not a given, but with the interconnectivity of today these dumb people can organize and create echo chambers, and be much more harmful to both themselves and others. A stark, anti-religion stance seems harsh, but it’s likely the most effective way to avoid these pitfalls.
casually thinks back ONLY these last five years
remembers all the excuses and acts committed whilst hiding behind religion
religion sucks, conservatism sucks. that shit is so old.
Absolutely reprehensible and repulsive. Sick fuckers are so scared of women that they will not let them be educated. Fuck those backwards ass sexist monsters. Indefensible
Fucking incel losers, this Taliban.
learning is never over. No matter how hard authoritarians try.
I'll never forget, a few years into the war I asked what my Afghani colleague thought of the war. He told me "I hate the Taliban. When I was a boy they came to my village and slit all the men's throats. NOT a few of the men. ALL of the men." Leaving those people to suffer that regime was a greater crime than any we committed in the 20 years of occupation.
Leaving those people to suffer that regime was a greater crime than any we committed in the 20 years of occupation
This doesnt make any sense lmao.
We tried. We failed. So we stopped.
This is exactly what the alt-right Christian fucks want. I'm surprised that they don't realize how much in common they have with the Taliban.
religious fanaticism in all regards
religion sucks dude
And at this pace it will happen.
Time is favoring the extreme, maybe that will change but right now every decade marches in that direction.
[Citation needed]
Source: Da South
Correction: your bigotry
You're kidding, right? They're open about their intentions and have actively worked towards it
So provide your citations. If it's so obvious, then it should be trivially easy for you to show examples of people in the US working to ban women from going to highschool
... Nationwide statistics based on publicly available data are bigoted...?
No words to describe this stupidity.
My initial thought experiment on this was "could these girls migrate to the west on a visa to complete their studies and return?", and then I went down the rabbit hole of the demographics of Afghanistan. Of a population of around 40m, 46% are under 15, which is mad! That's potentially a lot of girls that will lose an education.
I wonder if a remote education could be the way forward? Let these girls study remotely online, assuming they have some form of internet access available, and create a worldwide visa that would allow any Afghan girl that can pass a standard entry exam to attend university. While we have no need to provide children from another country an education, this would probably be a low-cost solution, and one that I imagine many rich philanthropists would happily provide as a grant.
This solution sort of implies that the Taliban would allow it. Like the whole system over there isn't designed to crush these women as a form of control. It's not a lack of ability to educate them this is by design of their government.
For a visa like this to work you'd need the government and the Men of the country to be in agreement with it happening. That currently isn't the case. Providing a visa that almost no one will be able to use even if they wanted too would not only not help but could easily be something that's pointed to as "we're already providing a way for them to get educated and we don't have to do anything else."
True, under current laws women obviously can't travel without a man present, so it would basically mean sending a full family over, or at the very least, a parent or partner with them.
My main point of highlighting it was that it's not a small number of people, and that the young population of Afghanistan isn't anywhere near as small as I thought. A remote education might help, as it's something that women can access without having a man present.
It kind of makes sense because I bet the life expectancy in Afghanistan is not very high at all, so a higher percentage of the population would tend to be younger because of that.
there's also the whole issue of, you know, not letting them in cuz they have no education or marketable skills
we don't just let people in
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In September 2021, a month after U.S. and NATO troops withdrew from Afghanistan following two decades of war, the Taliban announced that girls were barred from studying beyond sixth grade.
The Taliban have defied global condemnation and warnings that the restrictions will make it almost impossible for them to gain recognition as the country’s legitimate rulers.
Last week, U.N. special envoy Roza Otunbayeva expressed concern that a generation of Afghan girls is falling behind with each day that passes.
Last week, an official in the Education Ministry said Afghan girls of all ages are allowed to study in religious schools known as madrassas, which have traditionally been boys-only.
In another part of Kabul, 13-year old Setayesh Sahibzada wonders what the future holds for her.
Analyst Muhammad Saleem Paigir warned that excluding women and girls from education will be disastrous for Afghanistan.
The original article contains 327 words, the summary contains 141 words. Saved 57%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Only on religion.
terrible
Ahh, the taliban, or the brave mujahideen fighters, of course, are being religious fanatics again! Who could've guessed! I'm sure when I look into this comment section, I'm going to see lots of people doing historical and contextual analysis, and maybe even some religious analysis, as to why this is the case! I'm sure I won't see bigotry directed at muslims in general for being the victims of politically conservative radicalizing oil wars! I'm sure everyone will have a totally rational opinion on this!
they spent decades fighting off two superpowers playing around in their backyard
FAFO portion of messing around with Afghanistan for decades.
the taliban suck, for sure. that said, i’d have been thrilled if i’d not had to go back to school, even tho i got good grades. i certainly wouldn’t have been “in tears” more like having a tiny party,
shut the fuck up
sucks to be you then
Courtesy from Western civillization : supporting reactionnary elements world wide to exploit humanity...
An interesting idea. Was there no oppression before the West's influence was felt? Do you consider Russia to be part of the West?
Fucking moron, of course you’re from lemmy.ml
For the bigots out here, this is just the Taliban being incels. Nothing related to religion, if anything a lack of religious knowledge.
Religion is like comunism, the idea is good!
But the execution is always dependant on the human factor, who abuse these systems without control.
How is the idea of religion good? Sure, it may provide some people some comfort, but it can't tell you things that are true.
As you said, Desperate people need hope.
The organized part is where the trouble comes in.
I guess the Americans Genocide in Palestine is just a very religious crusade. Must be Jesus's fault!
I cannot tell if this argument is for, against, or just dumb
It's about as logical as I'd expect from someone trying to defend religion.
Who knows. All these secular nations are the most moral until they do evil stuff then it's religion's fault.
America is not a secular nation lmao. The entire language of the Bush administration during the Iraq war was one of a 'holy war' -- they wanted it to be a new crusade.
America just wanted a base in the middle east to extort and terrorize other countries with and steal their oil. Bush was as religious as Donald Trump.
Hypocrites abusing religion as a pretense for their misdeeds are described in pretty much every religious book.
Now defend the CCP and China. Are they religious too?
I'm not arguing that secular people (or, indeed, nations) can't be evil. While you bring up China, though, it's a bit of a myth that they're not religious; approximately 80% of the Chinese population practise cults of gods and ancestors or belong to folk religious movements.
My point was that it's a bit odd to pick the US as your example of a secular country when it is at the moment de facto Christian.
With regards to Bush being 'as religious as Trump', that's just simply not true. He's a pretty devout Christian, and has put it in a prominent position in all his campaign rhetoric, more than any other president of this generation. If you just Google George W Bush religion you'll find plenty of news articles from a variety of sources saying that (e.g. this or this).
They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.
nothing related to religion
You have got to be kidding with this one right? No one can be that dense
What's the relation? Nothing in Islam forbids female education.
The only point of contention you can have with it is that it enforces segregated male and female schooling but it doesn't ban female education. Since schooling was already segregated in Afghanistan there is no religious reason for the Taliban to close those schools.
The Taliban sadly has heavy elements of tribalism that are not religiously but culturally motivated.
The relation is that if a girl in Afghanistan now dares to seek out higher education, she will be denounced by the Talibanis as an infidel trying to defy Islam.
Islam is the base they use to enforce this cruelty. The fact that the religion originally didn't intend this is immaterial.
You're missing the point where religion is always (ab)used to control the masses for whatever point you want. Want to go to war? God hates the enemy and wants you to fight! Oeipoemdie due to poverty caused by government mismanagement? It's gods will. Want to stop girls from attending school? That is just the way that god wants it baby, sucks to be you!
Some people will do anything to lick the Taliban's boots.
Oh yes, it's "religion is not a at fault" right here.
As well described in another comment thread, Quran literally encourages everyone to learn, with no gendered distinction made.
You may easily write off bigotry on religion, but it's literally them doing some crazy shit and covering with religion that clearly says not to do this.
That's same as many American Christians literally ignoring the Bible, but this time way more consequential. Bigots will stick to religion as an instrument of power and hope nobody actually reads the sacred books, because they never said all those things. Should there be no religion, they'd use something else.
That is not to say religions are flawless. But bigotry just uses religion as a cover, it doesn't come from it.
Religion in reality is defined by the action of its adherents. The books are just pieces of paper, that the holy book doesn't condone this cruelty is immaterial when the adherents are overwhelmingly indulged in it. There are definitely Islamic sects around the globe that are socially good, but Talibani Islam is filth that needs to be eradicated.
Sure, and here we can agree.
Just saying that Talibani Islam is as far from actual Islam as Greenland from Australia.
No, it DOES have to do with religion we are NOT in politically correct feel good land here. Welcome to reality where religion and communism is USED to TERRORIZE human kids and adults.
That's just the multipolar world kicking in.
No. The world may be multipolar, but this is clearly a low point on the moral landscape.
Yes, that's the joke. When people say they want a "multipolar world" what they mean is that we should not use global institutions to influence global values and we should tolerate all sorts of human rights abuses in the interest of some odd idealistic parity.
I laughed.
I feel like when people say multi polar world, it still benefits China and America with their space programs etc but quite literally leaves Australia, NZ, EU and Russia in a pickle.
Just religion
USA should have never left and should return to end terrorism of taliban
Yeah because the twenty years we spent arming and training the Afghani military did sooooo much last time.
We should fuck off and stop destabilizing countries is what we should do.
But only the specific countries, right? …right?
I'm sure that millions of Afghan women would disagree with this. The nation building in Afghanistan was fucked from the start because it completely ignored Afghan tradions of life and government, and the Western-style government was horribly corrupt and failed to inspire any sort of loyalty, but just leaving was incredibly destructive too.
Being consistent in your isolationism is hard when you also have a big military huh? See Chinese naval build up soon to become a big waste of money without serious fast movement towards reeducation or alternatives e.g. large scale island fish farming and maybe brink style wargames simply for entertainment lol
Should have armed and trained the women tbh
Well... The ones that aren't brainwashed into thinking they should be enslaved. There's a lot of internalized misogyny in Muslim countries because the women have been raised to believe they should be submissive to patriarchal forces.
That's the issue with control over education, once you get your hooks in you can make the slave believe being a slave is honorable and noble. They'll fight against their own interests. I've even see it on lemmy. Where they talk about the evil west and our damn equality for the sexes, how awful we are for letting women do what they want.
Man, we spent 20 years trying to end it. Arguably we could have had success if it wasn't for the Iraq War interrupting things, but that's besides the point now - we don't have the political capital to go back in, we don't have a reason to go back in (as bad as Afghanistan is, oppression is not actually grounds for intervention despite what Bush will tell you), and we have limited resources. We have to use our limited resources on objectives that are obtainable, justifiable, and have a good outcome relative to investment. Right now, that's the Ukrainian War. After 20 years in Afghanistan? Afghanistan is at the very bottom of the fucking list, man. We can't just say "Here's another trillion, let's try again"
The guys we supported let the practice of bacha bazi happen. So with our guys we get the systematic rape of boys and with the Taliban we get what is happening now. There is no good side or lesser evil in this situation.
You do realize bacha bazi was a pre-existing practice, and bacha bazi is a practice that still happens under the Taliban, right
It is true, apparently they hate homos but really love little boys. Gross little pedo hypocrites.
Should be raining switchblade drones on their leadership until they learn to behave. Let them play 13th century games on a modern battlefield without the courtesy of putting ourselves in AK-47 or exploding vest range.
Because if it didn't work the last 20 years the US was doing it, it'll work the next.
Drones are effective at killing people, but they're dogshit at killing ideology.
Ideas have to have heads to live in.
So kill em all then?
Y E s
More than that, drones are bad at constructing infrastructure, but they're really good at destroying it. If you're tearing through a housing complex to kill a terrorist, you're going to make a lot more disillusioned people out of those who are now homeless. It's really epic how people don't understand this, and don't understand how people might not look kindly to a military occupation generally, especially one that isn't helping much to build out their infrastructure, or, maybe more importantly, position them in a way where they're actually well off in the global market, since that's something they have to worry about now in a neoliberal, globalized society. And then instead everyone's just like, yeah, well, they don't want our help, but they're still a threat, let's kill everyone, and then we can save the little girls that are never going into the classroom again after they're fucking dead.
I hate this place, bro.
If you kill enough of the right ones, it'll work. When their leader's first act in office is to hose what's left of the last guy (and it will have been a guy) off of the floor and walls, I think they'll gain some perspective and make better choices. Can't be as polite and delicate as we were over the past couple decades.
You're right, what I've described above is the same as what you're talking about. Good job not noticing the differences which were clearly meant to mislead.
The US has caused this shit, why don't you guys fuck off and stay out of conflict...just for like a week and see how it goes.
The US is merely the latest to try and control the region. And their attempt didn't end any better than any of the previous attempts.
The US caused radical Islam?
During the cold war, the US armed and supported radical islamist factions called mujihadeen because they were opposed to the communists. This didn't help, but ofc there were other factors. When the US began its wars in the middle east in earnest, they killed a lot of people including civilians. As a consequence, they were probably the most effective recruiters for radical islam (when a foreign government kills your friends or family, you'd feel positively incluned towards fundamentalist groups fighting them too). Throughout the iraq war and the related conflicts analysts warned that us intervention was fuelling islamic terror. I was under the impression that by now this was common knowledge.
I recommend the book "Charlie Wilson's War" for those who want some insight into the funding of the Mujahideen.
What an ignorant take. Radical Islam existed long before the US went there. Salafism and Wahhabism have been around for more then century at this point, to name two of several fundamentalist movements.
Muslims have been infighting with fundamentalists and more secular members of Islam for centuries.
The US surely didn't help, but they are so, so far from being the sole or main cause for the turmoil in Afghanistan and the middle east in general.
There is radical islam existing, and then there is radical islam being the dominant force it currently is.
For a big part, yes. Overthrowing democratic governments, funding radicals and bombing civillians tends to make people join the side that is seen as the enemies of the culprits of these crimes.
What? This country didn't allow education for women long before the US ever set foot there
That's some mental gymnastics. I dislike the US going abroad with their military as much as the next non-US person, but if I had to choose one instance where they weren't the biggest dicks on the battlefield, it would be Afghanistan.
It's too late. Americans have adopted the 'brown people need to solve their own problems' mantra for this generation.
Come back in 20 years when things are so shit we can no longer look away.
Yes, because achieving lasting positive change by killing people has worked SO well in Afghanistan of all places 🤦
Should have spent 20 years establishing islamic-free zones. You can only enter if you curse the prophet. Build up fortresses of civilization.
Or just the dark mosque where young men pray and literally learn to box with blindfolds in the dark to take out their rage.
Now imagine the next big movie, the transporter but next level badass, with beards, tattoos, swords, guns and straight up ICI the killer levels blood and Michael bay camera works. All in some middle eastern version of Bruce Lee but where the main character winds up fighting terrorists, Rambo, some random corrupt guy, his friends asshole neighbor and a whole gang of dudes who are all rapists or something strange like that, then there's some GTA bad guys, some Russian mobster guy, the Wagner guys, then the final boss is like Bin Ladens paedophile friend/cousin whose secretly an o.g traitor, and also an MMA fighter, a kamikaze pilot and a bomb maker guy who has an entire harem of children and even a secret chapel hidden in the mountains where he prays to an evil alternate Allah for more children or something.
The lore combined with the action would be enough to make a whole trilogy of badass
That's funny because they think the same thing about the United States, as clearly indicated by bin Laden's letter to the US.
Bin Laden was Saudi. And the 9/11 attackers, well, they very much put themselves in range of an exploding vest, metaphorically.
I'm just saying that he speaks in the exact same tone as this commentor and we should take note of the danger of this rhetoric.
Why should you give a shit what they do? I’ll hunt down anyone who commits acts of terror against the US, but I don’t give a fuck if these people want to repress their own people. It’s their choice how to live, not mine. One man’s repression is another’s freedom since religion makes people do dumbass things. They’re not worth the cost of a switchblade nor any of the other expensive shit we lobbed at that country for 2 decades. Once we had the guy that coordinated 9/11 we should have pulled out. They don’t want western style “civilization” they’re perfect happy (definitely not all of them) with their value and political system.
Guess I'm one of those weirdos who wants humans to have rights even if we don't share a flag or similar genitals.
Interesting thing about Afghanistan is that according to the UN, each government of a country is well within their rights to how they run their country within their own borders.
Yes, genocide and loss of freedom are frowned upon and sanctions are called - but as it is the religion and view of the country they are left to it. We can't push western values on another country.
Ah, yes, remember when the Taliban was democratically elected by the people of Afghanistan?
... oh. It wasn't?
Exactly - internal matter within own boarders.
No other government claims they are in Hargett.
Ah, it's just an "internal matter", like genocide.
I remember when the Afghanistan army folded in a week.
Is that what an election is?
No but when they spent 20 years helping the Taliban it pretty well reflected what the majority wanted
The idea that half of the people in a country are still people even if they had the audacity to be born without a penis shouldn't be a "western value". Read the article again and find a book or two about what goes on over there before suggesting that we follow the UN version of Starfleet's Prime Directive.
Interesting thing about Afghanistan is that according to the UN, each government of a country is well within their rights to how they run their country within their own borders.
The argument for other country to everstretch itself can be that other country's problems leak over their borders. What is the reasonable limit there? Instead of 'we want oil', there can be another case of a biological weapon, or that Afganistan is the source of a world illegal drugs trade etc, or whatever. Even plain cultural or religious antagonism can be faned into a fire, sold to a public as good and just. Now, after what happened to Afghanistan after 20 years is discouraging, but in twenty years? With corrupt guys like Trump, a military lobby and other conflicts in acive phase?
You’re literally calling for raining bombs on a country of people who don’t want that… you’re not asking for human rights. You’re pushing your ideas of right on them. Have you learned nothing from what the middle eastern people have been telling western civilization over the last several years? They don’t want our ideas. They have religious texts that they believe sets up how to live and act for them. Just leave them the fuck alone and focus on our own countries.
Is there really no middle ground between "I don't give a fuck about them" and "Bomb the country" ?
In logical thinking there is, but not in US foreign policy.
No. Clearly only two options
I'm calling for raining bombs on a select group of people who can't seem to navigate their way out of the dark ages. Advocating for the "sit back and watch" position puts a higher value on the lives of tyrants than the rights of the people they oppress. If we kill the ones in charge who turn out to be assholes, they'll either run out of assholes or get the message. Both outcomes are fine.
So if Russia wants to bomb your leaders because your country allows slaves in prison like a middle age shithole, you wouldn’t mind do you? You should actually welcome it.
And then when your leaders keep ruling as tyrants by refusing to give universal healthcare to your people, the EU should execute your leaders immediately, you agree?
And when your police keep murdering black people, your leaders should once again get blasted, you’ll get the message eventually, right?
You wouldn’t disagree with these rightful bombings, would you? It’s all for putting you out of your oppression and the dark ages.
I am fine with that. If all the politicians in the US were put on show trials and hung tomorrow I would go to work same as normal. You can do that for the Wall Street fuckers as well, plus the health insurance people, the lobbyists, anyone who sits on a think tank.
Pretty much anyone who claims they get to rule over me and not provide people with a service. Go do whatever you want.
Pretty much anyone who claims they get to rule over me and not provide people with a service.
The problem is that these two things aren't, you know, unrelated. You say, the health insurance people, right, and I would generally agree they can go fuck themselves, but I think if we kill a bunch of them, the power vacuum will probably just fill itself with the exact same shit, while people slowly get radicalized and possibly become nationalistic because everyone's getting killed by a foreign government, you know, especially as the government that's getting bombed to shit starts cutting propaganda about it. You need to actively be providing an alternative that people will flock to, when you go and kill these people, otherwise, you'll just be eliminating infrastructure in the form of people, and you'll be turning everything into a dark age political radicalization hellzone.
: shrugs
really omega level convincing stuff, there.
I am not trying to convince anyone. I have my opinion.
Doesn’t fly very high.
You have made an accurate and fitting comparison, Vladimirovich. Definitely the same things going on in both cases.
You’re a clown. The US has literally banned abortion and you want to take the high moral ground. Lmfao.
Whatabout some more please.
their own people
This might come as a shock to you, but those are people just like you.
They're still worth saving even if they aren't from your country.
You'll understand when you're older, maybe.
They don't want to be "saved"
Really? You speak for all of them?
Obviously not for all, but demonstrably for the majority
Oh? When was that vote taken?
It's obvious when you listen to anyone outside of Kabul
It's a well documented fact that only people who live outside of cities count as people.
I see you have heard of the E.C.
Just because you're more exposed to them doesn't mean that the people in Kabul are worth more.
What about the ones who you don't speak for?
What about them?
Are they worth saving?
That depends on what you mean by saving
Lol. It didn't "depend on what I mean by saving" when you said "they don't all want to be saved."
Whatever you meant by saving, it's obvious that most Afghans don't want that kind of intervention.
Do you even know what you meant yourself?
The linked article suggests otherwise.
The linked article, like the vast majority of articles about Afghanistan, exclusively covers Kabul.
So the people in Kabul are not Afghan?
Go troll somewhere else
How am I trolling when you're the one claiming the people in Kabul don't count as Afghan?
Your reading comprehension is lacking, I never claimed such a thing. I talked about the majority of Afghanis and the vast majority of them to not live in Kabul.
You said nothing about the majority of Afghans (Afghani is a currency). Here is our entire conversation, starting with the comment I replied to:
I'm not sure what the point of this attempt at gaslighting is.
True, I confused you with a different comment chain. Doesn't change the bad-faith nature of your comments though
I love when you lemmings end your shit with “maybe when you’re older” like as if you’re some all knowing creature because you’re old as shit (boomer).
Maybe when you’re older you’ll learn to leave people the fuck alone that want to be left alone. We’ve tried world building enough. The Soviets, the British and the US. How many dead Middle Eastern people will it take before your colonial ass realizes it’s not what they want.
They’re only worth saving if they want to be saved. Keep worrying about your $1 food, I’ve got bigger things to be worried about that don’t involve making kids terrified of clear blue skies.
Gods, I'm probably going to regret this, but...
I agree with your overall point, but the unempathetic way you're expressing it is really off-putting to me. For example...
I’ve got bigger things to be worried about
People say things like this all the time about problems that don't affect them and that they can't control (some other examples are homelessness, addiction, etc.). It always strikes me as being super uncaring and cold. No one's asking you to help them directly or to let it spoil your day or whatever -- but it takes absolutely zero effort to just briefly recognize systemic problems like these. In fact, I think it's important that we do so. Why? Because that shit could happen here as well. That 6th-grade girl could be me, or my nibling, or my neighbor, and there but for the grace of god go I. (It's an expression, I'm not being religious here.)
Yeah, yeah I know "thoughts and prayers" and all that noise, but I think it's more than that. There are oppressive religious entities here where I live in the US. Seeing what this leads to ... nothing we can do to stop it, right. And FFS the US sending our military to try to fix anything is absolutely ... "colonial" is a good term for it, as you said. Even non-military intervention, like when we send politicians to Latin American countries to lecture them on instability that we created. So wack.
But I can at least recognize the humanity here, and what it must feel like to get one of those girls. It doesn't really constitute "worry" to just care about another person and to express that.
While I disagree with your view on "happy" and "choice how to live", it is a very interesting discussion that a country never successfully developed democracy and equality without their own citizens fighting for it.
We can push our values all we want, but until people die for how they want to live it won't stick. Unfortunately America is declining for the same reason.
So I guess we should just take in the citizens who don't want to live in that environment.
There's plenty of room over here in the USA!
I’m not saying I’m happy, or that I think they’re objectively happy. They just don’t want anything else or can’t conceptualize anything else. The people of Afghanistan have a way of living that they’re comfortable with since they don’t show much resistance to the status quo. We spent trillions on that country trying to make it “western” and a “democracy” like the US when the reality is that they don’t want that. They also don’t know anything different other than when we brought them “freedom” it meant the sky occasionally rained death and explosions. I don’t have an answer for them, and as history has shown for that region no one has an answer. I just know I don’t want to spend my tax dollars blowing up random people on the other side of the planet because I don’t give a fuck about them and I don’t want them to actively hate me in the future.
Dude wtf are you on about. This is literally a thread about 12-year girls crying because they’re not "comfortable with…the status quo". They clearly do "know anything different", because that’s what they’re upset about.
I am sorry for those girls that their parent's were god fearing and as a result they have to suffer
Ok, we can go back to bombing random civilians then. I guess if we guise it under “human rights” this time it makes all the bad stuff go away. Y’all realize you’re literally asking for people to go in and bomb a sovereign nation solely because you disagree with how they’re living?
I feel for those girls and the future they want. I hope they can make it to a country that supports them and fosters the same ideals they hold. Sometimes the country or culture we’re born into doesn’t align with us. However those girls aren’t a majority. I can find Americans saying things the majority of us don’t agree with, I can find Iranians saying things the majority of Americans agree with. These don’t make those things true of each others cultures. You’re wanting to change a culture because it doesn’t align with your ideals rather than realizing that sometimes that’s exactly what people want.
I’ll leave you with this: The monarchy in Britain has centuries of human rights abuses, and is something I think is completely antithetical to Democratic principles. Yet 62% of Briton's support the monarchy. Should I be able to drone strike them just because I disagree or think it goes against human rights? Where does that line get drawn except in all y’all’s Weird brains of assuming you know what Afghani people want and should get.
That's a lot of words which you could have summarized as "I don't know how to compare things, 10 equals 10,000,000 because they're both numbers".
Oh, and P.S., "Afghani" is a currency. Not a people.
Oh dang, thanks for the catch!
To repeat a comment you got 3 hours ago:
Is there really no middle ground between "I don't give a fuck about them" and "Bomb the country" ?
Not when they’re content and approve of the way things are, and spare me the “but here’s a video of a person unhappy about it”. I guess I’ll shift back then so the people of Lemmy can be happy to my true American roots and say we should bomb them again randomly. I mean, it worked for 20 years apparently so why did we stop.
The middle ground is to be friends with them. They don’t want that either (can’t blame them on that one), so leaving them alone is our best course of action. Bombing their leaders because of “human rights abuses” is exactly what created Osama Bin Laden, ISIL, and every other terror group in the last 20+ years. I’m sick of fighting and being at war. My country, the US, can build some of the greatest infrastructure on the planet. I’d rather build that and spend money on humanitarian relief to help people after natural disasters.
Next go around at trying to colonize Afghanistan can be done by Australia if you want. I’d hope you all would have opened a history book by then, but probably not considering the thirst for blood in this thread.
The people of Afghanistan have a way of living that they’re comfortable with
Do those crying girls sound comfortable with their way of living to you?
People in America are ready to die for almost anything and that's unironically a bad thing
Imagine looking around that classroom and thinking "All is right with this".
Not just "all is right". They see this and think "this is what God wants."
That's the thing with religious people. They don't think. They're told this is what God wants and that's the end of it. That's why it's so important to keep churches out of government.
Allah wants.
If you didn't know, they're the same thing.
I know but I think it is important to emphasize. God as an abstract concept is not as bad as God as the personal total micromanaging god of Islam.
Neither is an abstract concept. They are the same exact deity from the same story and the same origin.
No they aren't. There is a lot of difference between an Enlightenment era diest god, a local tribal god, and a triomni god.
What do you care anyhow? It isn't like Islam is monotheistic. They have Satan and dijins.
You're talking about God (such as the god of Islam and Catholicism, which is the same god) and gods, as in the concept of a god, which encompasses sun gods, Aztec gods, etc etc.
Usually I find how you capitalise matters here. God with a capital is a name, and talking about the "God" most people talk about.
A god, on the other hand, well you get the idea.
Anyway in this case we're talking about the god of Islam, Christianity, Catholicism, etc. This god is the same god, and in English we would call that god "God". Allah is that god's name in another language. But it's the same deity.
It really isn't. The Christian god is the threefold Trinity which is not at all like Allah.
Islam's Allah is a fanfic of the Christian Trinity, though reduces it back to a single entity and demotes Jesus to prophet. The Christian Trinity is a fanfic of the Jewish god Yahweh.
The members of the three groups disagree about what is canon, but they refer to the same entity.
They really don't. I don't know what the motivation behind this reasoning is but there just isn't a basis for it.
I especially like that guy in the back. That could be the teacher, but I guess that it's someone who observes that the God is feared enough and nothing disallowed happens.
Makes me wonder how one makes such career choices, too
"Welp, time to suck off the people who put me in this position!"
I'm pretty sure that's against the teachings of Islam.
They must thank Allah every day for America's Oligarchy gifting the military industrial complex trillions of dollars of tax payer money, and occupying their country for decades, to end up stuck in the same prison as their parents... Instead of the darkest timeline — universal healthcare and climate action!
At least it was a chance. We certainly fucked up in Afghanistan but it's not like the Taliban came back from nowhere.
People act like the Afghani army that the US spent years trying to rebuild didn't just up and run away.
If you raise your kids to believe in Allah you are setting up your grandchildren to live like this. Oppose religion, wherever you see it.
You can't just equate religion with fascism. Not that I think religion is ethical or even separable from fascism, but they aren't the same. Plenty of people practice religion without resorting to extremism.
I don't think I did. Cancer and heart disease are not the same despite both having very similar results given enough time.
You implied that religion necessarily results in fascism.
If I did I am sorry. There is no way I can make a claim like that. If nothing else the world could end long before the process finished. There is a link between the two but it does not mean that a society with monotheism will have to, 100% of the time with no exceptions, eventually become a fascist one.
Not just exclusive to Islam. This is what Christians are actively working to make happen in the US.
All organized religion is ripe for abuse by its uncontrollable masters. It's almost like communism in that!
Allah is the God in Christianity though
What?
Not the commenter, but I assume they talk about the nature of Abrahamic religions.
Technically, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are just three updates of the same religion. First came Torah, then it got transformed into the Old Testament and completed with the New one to get the Bible, and then Bible itself got completed to get Quran.
With that came one abrahamic God - referred to as Yahweh in Judaism, Trinity in Christianity (note: Islam goes back and denies Trinity and godly nature of Jesus, calling him a prophet, not element of God, and rolling back on Holy Spirit, too, reinstating Father God as the only source of godly power), and Allah in Islam.
Thereby cancelling Allah means also cancelling Trinity and Yahweh, as they're actually one and the same.
Before mankind was rebooting film franchises it was rebooting religions.
ThorSquint.jpg
I don't get it. Thor is not the same as Allah/God, even though he is a Norse god.
Well that's pretty reductionist, and bigoted. If you're going to judge Muslims by their extremists then you can't leave out the Christians and Jews. Hell Jewish extremists in Israel are committing genocide as we speak.
Yes those as well.
They said religion, not just Islam.
And yet they specifically reference Allah. And elsewhere in the comment section they try and say Allah is different from the Judeo-Christian "God".
You're allowed to use a specific example to make a general point.
Funny how that seems to happen with minorities and Islam but not white people.
You're the only person concerned about race here. Stop being racist.
That's literally a line used against people protesting for minority rights. It's not racist to call out problematic stuff.
You're the problematic stuff and we're calling you out.
Oh right, because you know me? I haven't said a damn thing about women's rights but to demonstrate how easy it is to lay fears of bigotry to rest... I believe all humans are created equal and should be treated equally. I also believe using extremists to paint entire groups is bigotry.
See? Super easy. Instead y'all seem to be going all in on Islamophobia.
Literally nobody mentioned race.
And aside from that, you're wrong anyway. People criticise "white" religious beliefs too. A lot.
Like, you've never heard people hating on the catholic church and the people who support it for turning a blind eye to sex abuse scandals? Seriously?
Or about the religious Christian crazies in the US? You've never heard about that?
Or the cult that is Scientology? Is that something you're unfamiliar with?
Fuck off with this trying to frame criticising a religion or pointing out its harmful effects as being racial bigotry.
It's not racism, and you know it isn't. You're just indirectly supporting actual bigotry that Islam pushes against women, LGBT people, and non-believers.
Yes. Specific things about Christianity are complained about. That doesn't mean bigots aren't out there spreading islamophobia.
Oh look an example of someone using an extremist group to paint all Muslims. And trying to cover it with the weird religions in there once.
And if you think race is the only kind of bigotry going, I have a bridge to sell you.
Bullshit. People openly disparage and mock Christianity all the time. The difference is that nobody ever gets killed for it. Islam is in dire need of reform. Pointing that out is not a form of bigotry.
Everything is complained about. More widely than Islam, too.
Who said they weren't? This is a complete strawman. I never said nobody hates Muslims, I said complaining about Islam is not bigotry, and you bringing race into this and playing the "if you criticise this you're a RACIST" is pathetic.
Never said that. That's another strawman.
I think you'll find I explicitly mentioned homophobia, misogyny, and hatred of infidels in my comment. All things absolutely rife in Islam. And yet, here you are indirectly condoning those viewpoints.
I'm a bisexual Indian immigrant. I'm very, very well aware of bigotry. And complaining about backwards hateful religious rhetoric isn't bigotry.
What a disgusting bigot you are. Throwing groups that are treated as subhuman by Islamic institutions under the bus just so you can have some falsified moral high ground by calling everybody who doesn't like Islamic extremism a racist.
White people can't be Muslim?
Christianity is literally the most critiqued religion in the west lol
As they control Congress?
"The West" != southern/middle USA.
Nice try.
In a post about Muslims oppressing people, someone references Allah.
Who the f cares? Allah and Jahweh and trinity are all just made up feel good stories to ABUSE HUMANS
Because most Islamophobes are religious extremists themselves.
Nope, not at all. All of France Holland Germany Nordic are NOT religious and we have some decades of experience with the islamites. Blegh
Lmao. I'm sorry, your argument is you're not religious extremist, you're just a racist?
Oh God, that's the laugh I needed.
Especially because there's still 10-20 percent depending on your country. And you're just falling into the propaganda created by the extremists among them.
No, 10-20% are religious but those coincide with dumb ppl who make up 30-40% of nay population and include racist AND ZIONISTS and extreme leftist etc.
Yup all religious people are dumb. Sure thing. Just keep digging that hole.
Well, yes.
But the Muslim, Christian, and Jewish god is the same deity. So "Allah" refers to the god of all 3 religions.
Not to islamophobes it doesn't.
ALL religions
Cool. Now have the commenter up there clarify that.
I'm not saying I agree with op but their comment is very clear already
Obviously I disagree.
Then don't specifically mention Allah. It's one of the older propaganda methods. We don't like the general group but fuck those guys specifically.
Funny how all the commenter needs to do to clear things up is edit their post. Instead you guys are all trying to make excuses.
How dare they use Allah as an example of a god, in a submission about the harmful effects of Islam!
Sure, breed more islamophobia. Most Muslims don't want this. It's like using the FLDS as an example of all Christians.
Which is why "oppose religion" means all of them. No exceptions
Yes, allllllllll of them abuse their fake man on the cloud to rape and kill children. No joke.
wtf do you know
The evidence of religion ruling people's lives is right in front of you and you act like we are drawing conclusions from nothing.
read a book
As long as its not a fucking religious text.
Religion can be toxic, but so can non-religious nations like Russia under Putin.
The real shit is money and power - those are what kill and lie and steal from the billions of us who haven't yet got to the point of revolution.
If nothing else we know it's coming ... and when it does it'll be massive and worldwide.
Putin embraces the Russian Orthodox Church as part of his nationalism. Also, Russia is only 13% atheist. Hardly a non-religious nation.
But, you're right, power is the real point. Religion is just one of the most hateful methods of justifying and maintaining power.
Democracy with socially regulated capitalism, in our experience, has a lighter touch and has thus far provided a lot of benefits to the vast majority of people.
You mention revolution, but don't specify from what or to what? Revolutions have a way of not going quite the way the idealists hope they will.
Russia is 72% Eastern Orthodox by population. The US is estimated to be ~63% split between flavors of christianity, for comparison.
So, you’re close but wrong country. Russia tried to get rid of religion but failed. The Russian Orthodox Church just kind of became part of the government. That’s why you see the priests blessing Russian weapons and stuff.
China on the other hand did get rid of religion pretty successfully. The reason communism strives to get rid of religion is because when people aren’t arguing over who’s imaginary supernatural friend loves his people more. It’s easier to get them to agree on things.
Now, I’m not going to pretend that this is a perfect plan. After all successfully getting rid of religion comes with a whole new set of pitfalls. But, I personally think the pros outweigh the cons.
You can die from snake venom. That doesn't mean cancer is harmless.
I get what previous commenter said: the problem is the people with power wanting to control the population, religion is just the means to an end (sorry if this is not the correct way to say it). In my way of seeing it, religion as always been a cover to interests of the powerful, a way to keep the population controlled, or dumbed down. In the example of this thread, they are openly using this strategy by cutting access to education.
Bad people do bad things.
But for a good person to do bad things, that takes religion.
This sounds like it's a prerequisite to be good before becoming religious ... which historically is not the case.
Child molesters who entered the priesthood were not "good" before using the shelter of the Church to rape children.
Being "good" or "bad" is a conscious, moral decision which is maintained by every person choosing what is of the utmost importance for their life ... selfish fulfillment or altruism.
... this is, ofc, setting aside mental health issues that do not allow some to make rational conscious decisions.
No, it's saying if you are good, religion can make you do bad and that bad people will do bad regardless of religion.
Bible, Koran, Torah, Book of Mormon, The Vedas... you know there’s actually a lot of objectionable shit in all of these.
I wonder if you meant some other books that support your ideals, jokes on me for reading the source materials instead I suppose.
Like the ones the Afghan schoolgirls won't be allowed to read?
Yeesh, I'd recommend the same to you.
Yes sir! Only Bible!
Anyway, pretty fucking weird society where they have to wrap 6th grade girls from head to toe to avoid feeling attracted to them.
Religion is bad and what book would you have us read?
Religions are as dumb as the people who believe them?
Religions can be harmful for certain dumb people who believe them. It’s not a given, but with the interconnectivity of today these dumb people can organize and create echo chambers, and be much more harmful to both themselves and others. A stark, anti-religion stance seems harsh, but it’s likely the most effective way to avoid these pitfalls.
casually thinks back ONLY these last five years
remembers all the excuses and acts committed whilst hiding behind religion
suddenly falls into a wormhole and lands in 1095
I dunno, seems fishy.
Stuff.
More than them.
Nice take.
religion sucks, conservatism sucks. that shit is so old.
Absolutely reprehensible and repulsive. Sick fuckers are so scared of women that they will not let them be educated. Fuck those backwards ass sexist monsters. Indefensible
Fucking incel losers, this Taliban.
learning is never over. No matter how hard authoritarians try.
I'll never forget, a few years into the war I asked what my Afghani colleague thought of the war. He told me "I hate the Taliban. When I was a boy they came to my village and slit all the men's throats. NOT a few of the men. ALL of the men." Leaving those people to suffer that regime was a greater crime than any we committed in the 20 years of occupation.
This doesnt make any sense lmao.
We tried. We failed. So we stopped.
This is exactly what the alt-right Christian fucks want. I'm surprised that they don't realize how much in common they have with the Taliban.
religious fanaticism in all regards
religion sucks dude
And at this pace it will happen.
Time is favoring the extreme, maybe that will change but right now every decade marches in that direction.
[Citation needed]
Source: Da South
Correction: your bigotry
You're kidding, right? They're open about their intentions and have actively worked towards it
So provide your citations. If it's so obvious, then it should be trivially easy for you to show examples of people in the US working to ban women from going to highschool
... Nationwide statistics based on publicly available data are bigoted...?
No words to describe this stupidity.
My initial thought experiment on this was "could these girls migrate to the west on a visa to complete their studies and return?", and then I went down the rabbit hole of the demographics of Afghanistan. Of a population of around 40m, 46% are under 15, which is mad! That's potentially a lot of girls that will lose an education.
I wonder if a remote education could be the way forward? Let these girls study remotely online, assuming they have some form of internet access available, and create a worldwide visa that would allow any Afghan girl that can pass a standard entry exam to attend university. While we have no need to provide children from another country an education, this would probably be a low-cost solution, and one that I imagine many rich philanthropists would happily provide as a grant.
This solution sort of implies that the Taliban would allow it. Like the whole system over there isn't designed to crush these women as a form of control. It's not a lack of ability to educate them this is by design of their government.
For a visa like this to work you'd need the government and the Men of the country to be in agreement with it happening. That currently isn't the case. Providing a visa that almost no one will be able to use even if they wanted too would not only not help but could easily be something that's pointed to as "we're already providing a way for them to get educated and we don't have to do anything else."
True, under current laws women obviously can't travel without a man present, so it would basically mean sending a full family over, or at the very least, a parent or partner with them.
My main point of highlighting it was that it's not a small number of people, and that the young population of Afghanistan isn't anywhere near as small as I thought. A remote education might help, as it's something that women can access without having a man present.
It kind of makes sense because I bet the life expectancy in Afghanistan is not very high at all, so a higher percentage of the population would tend to be younger because of that.
there's also the whole issue of, you know, not letting them in cuz they have no education or marketable skills
we don't just let people in
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In September 2021, a month after U.S. and NATO troops withdrew from Afghanistan following two decades of war, the Taliban announced that girls were barred from studying beyond sixth grade.
The Taliban have defied global condemnation and warnings that the restrictions will make it almost impossible for them to gain recognition as the country’s legitimate rulers.
Last week, U.N. special envoy Roza Otunbayeva expressed concern that a generation of Afghan girls is falling behind with each day that passes.
Last week, an official in the Education Ministry said Afghan girls of all ages are allowed to study in religious schools known as madrassas, which have traditionally been boys-only.
In another part of Kabul, 13-year old Setayesh Sahibzada wonders what the future holds for her.
Analyst Muhammad Saleem Paigir warned that excluding women and girls from education will be disastrous for Afghanistan.
The original article contains 327 words, the summary contains 141 words. Saved 57%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Only on religion.
terrible
Ahh, the taliban, or the brave mujahideen fighters, of course, are being religious fanatics again! Who could've guessed! I'm sure when I look into this comment section, I'm going to see lots of people doing historical and contextual analysis, and maybe even some religious analysis, as to why this is the case! I'm sure I won't see bigotry directed at muslims in general for being the victims of politically conservative radicalizing oil wars! I'm sure everyone will have a totally rational opinion on this!
they spent decades fighting off two superpowers playing around in their backyard
FAFO portion of messing around with Afghanistan for decades.
the taliban suck, for sure. that said, i’d have been thrilled if i’d not had to go back to school, even tho i got good grades. i certainly wouldn’t have been “in tears” more like having a tiny party,
shut the fuck up
sucks to be you then
Courtesy from Western civillization : supporting reactionnary elements world wide to exploit humanity...
An interesting idea. Was there no oppression before the West's influence was felt? Do you consider Russia to be part of the West?
Fucking moron, of course you’re from lemmy.ml
For the bigots out here, this is just the Taliban being incels. Nothing related to religion, if anything a lack of religious knowledge.
https://en.vogue.me/culture/afghanistan-taliban-women-school-ban/
Religion is the vehicle of monstrosity
It truly is. In all it's forms and shapes.
Religion is like comunism, the idea is good! But the execution is always dependant on the human factor, who abuse these systems without control.
How is the idea of religion good? Sure, it may provide some people some comfort, but it can't tell you things that are true.
As you said, Desperate people need hope.
The organized part is where the trouble comes in.
I guess the Americans Genocide in Palestine is just a very religious crusade. Must be Jesus's fault!
I cannot tell if this argument is for, against, or just dumb
It's about as logical as I'd expect from someone trying to defend religion.
Who knows. All these secular nations are the most moral until they do evil stuff then it's religion's fault.
America is not a secular nation lmao. The entire language of the Bush administration during the Iraq war was one of a 'holy war' -- they wanted it to be a new crusade.
The one positive aim he had in the Middle East, driven by religion, was achieving a state for Palestine and security for Israel, so he's at least 0 for 2
America just wanted a base in the middle east to extort and terrorize other countries with and steal their oil. Bush was as religious as Donald Trump.
Hypocrites abusing religion as a pretense for their misdeeds are described in pretty much every religious book.
Now defend the CCP and China. Are they religious too?
I'm not arguing that secular people (or, indeed, nations) can't be evil. While you bring up China, though, it's a bit of a myth that they're not religious; approximately 80% of the Chinese population practise cults of gods and ancestors or belong to folk religious movements.
My point was that it's a bit odd to pick the US as your example of a secular country when it is at the moment de facto Christian.
With regards to Bush being 'as religious as Trump', that's just simply not true. He's a pretty devout Christian, and has put it in a prominent position in all his campaign rhetoric, more than any other president of this generation. If you just Google George W Bush religion you'll find plenty of news articles from a variety of sources saying that (e.g. this or this).
"God chose him" huh.
Titus 1:16
You have got to be kidding with this one right? No one can be that dense
What's the relation? Nothing in Islam forbids female education.
The only point of contention you can have with it is that it enforces segregated male and female schooling but it doesn't ban female education. Since schooling was already segregated in Afghanistan there is no religious reason for the Taliban to close those schools.
The Taliban sadly has heavy elements of tribalism that are not religiously but culturally motivated.
The relation is that if a girl in Afghanistan now dares to seek out higher education, she will be denounced by the Talibanis as an infidel trying to defy Islam.
Islam is the base they use to enforce this cruelty. The fact that the religion originally didn't intend this is immaterial.
You're missing the point where religion is always (ab)used to control the masses for whatever point you want. Want to go to war? God hates the enemy and wants you to fight! Oeipoemdie due to poverty caused by government mismanagement? It's gods will. Want to stop girls from attending school? That is just the way that god wants it baby, sucks to be you!
Some people will do anything to lick the Taliban's boots.
Oh yes, it's "religion is not a at fault" right here.
As well described in another comment thread, Quran literally encourages everyone to learn, with no gendered distinction made.
You may easily write off bigotry on religion, but it's literally them doing some crazy shit and covering with religion that clearly says not to do this.
That's same as many American Christians literally ignoring the Bible, but this time way more consequential. Bigots will stick to religion as an instrument of power and hope nobody actually reads the sacred books, because they never said all those things. Should there be no religion, they'd use something else.
That is not to say religions are flawless. But bigotry just uses religion as a cover, it doesn't come from it.
Religion in reality is defined by the action of its adherents. The books are just pieces of paper, that the holy book doesn't condone this cruelty is immaterial when the adherents are overwhelmingly indulged in it. There are definitely Islamic sects around the globe that are socially good, but Talibani Islam is filth that needs to be eradicated.
Sure, and here we can agree.
Just saying that Talibani Islam is as far from actual Islam as Greenland from Australia.
No, it DOES have to do with religion we are NOT in politically correct feel good land here. Welcome to reality where religion and communism is USED to TERRORIZE human kids and adults.
That's just the multipolar world kicking in.
No. The world may be multipolar, but this is clearly a low point on the moral landscape.
Yes, that's the joke. When people say they want a "multipolar world" what they mean is that we should not use global institutions to influence global values and we should tolerate all sorts of human rights abuses in the interest of some odd idealistic parity.
I laughed.
I feel like when people say multi polar world, it still benefits China and America with their space programs etc but quite literally leaves Australia, NZ, EU and Russia in a pickle.
Just religion
USA should have never left and should return to end terrorism of taliban
Yeah because the twenty years we spent arming and training the Afghani military did sooooo much last time.
We should fuck off and stop destabilizing countries is what we should do.
But only the specific countries, right? …right?
I'm sure that millions of Afghan women would disagree with this. The nation building in Afghanistan was fucked from the start because it completely ignored Afghan tradions of life and government, and the Western-style government was horribly corrupt and failed to inspire any sort of loyalty, but just leaving was incredibly destructive too.
Being consistent in your isolationism is hard when you also have a big military huh? See Chinese naval build up soon to become a big waste of money without serious fast movement towards reeducation or alternatives e.g. large scale island fish farming and maybe brink style wargames simply for entertainment lol
Should have armed and trained the women tbh
Well... The ones that aren't brainwashed into thinking they should be enslaved. There's a lot of internalized misogyny in Muslim countries because the women have been raised to believe they should be submissive to patriarchal forces.
That's the issue with control over education, once you get your hooks in you can make the slave believe being a slave is honorable and noble. They'll fight against their own interests. I've even see it on lemmy. Where they talk about the evil west and our damn equality for the sexes, how awful we are for letting women do what they want.
Man, we spent 20 years trying to end it. Arguably we could have had success if it wasn't for the Iraq War interrupting things, but that's besides the point now - we don't have the political capital to go back in, we don't have a reason to go back in (as bad as Afghanistan is, oppression is not actually grounds for intervention despite what Bush will tell you), and we have limited resources. We have to use our limited resources on objectives that are obtainable, justifiable, and have a good outcome relative to investment. Right now, that's the Ukrainian War. After 20 years in Afghanistan? Afghanistan is at the very bottom of the fucking list, man. We can't just say "Here's another trillion, let's try again"
The guys we supported let the practice of bacha bazi happen. So with our guys we get the systematic rape of boys and with the Taliban we get what is happening now. There is no good side or lesser evil in this situation.
You do realize bacha bazi was a pre-existing practice, and bacha bazi is a practice that still happens under the Taliban, right
It is true, apparently they hate homos but really love little boys. Gross little pedo hypocrites.
Should be raining switchblade drones on their leadership until they learn to behave. Let them play 13th century games on a modern battlefield without the courtesy of putting ourselves in AK-47 or exploding vest range.
Because if it didn't work the last 20 years the US was doing it, it'll work the next.
Drones are effective at killing people, but they're dogshit at killing ideology.
Ideas have to have heads to live in.
So kill em all then?
Y E s
More than that, drones are bad at constructing infrastructure, but they're really good at destroying it. If you're tearing through a housing complex to kill a terrorist, you're going to make a lot more disillusioned people out of those who are now homeless. It's really epic how people don't understand this, and don't understand how people might not look kindly to a military occupation generally, especially one that isn't helping much to build out their infrastructure, or, maybe more importantly, position them in a way where they're actually well off in the global market, since that's something they have to worry about now in a neoliberal, globalized society. And then instead everyone's just like, yeah, well, they don't want our help, but they're still a threat, let's kill everyone, and then we can save the little girls that are never going into the classroom again after they're fucking dead.
I hate this place, bro.
If you kill enough of the right ones, it'll work. When their leader's first act in office is to hose what's left of the last guy (and it will have been a guy) off of the floor and walls, I think they'll gain some perspective and make better choices. Can't be as polite and delicate as we were over the past couple decades.
You're right, what I've described above is the same as what you're talking about. Good job not noticing the differences which were clearly meant to mislead.
The US has caused this shit, why don't you guys fuck off and stay out of conflict...just for like a week and see how it goes.
The US is merely the latest to try and control the region. And their attempt didn't end any better than any of the previous attempts.
The US caused radical Islam?
During the cold war, the US armed and supported radical islamist factions called mujihadeen because they were opposed to the communists. This didn't help, but ofc there were other factors. When the US began its wars in the middle east in earnest, they killed a lot of people including civilians. As a consequence, they were probably the most effective recruiters for radical islam (when a foreign government kills your friends or family, you'd feel positively incluned towards fundamentalist groups fighting them too). Throughout the iraq war and the related conflicts analysts warned that us intervention was fuelling islamic terror. I was under the impression that by now this was common knowledge.
I recommend the book "Charlie Wilson's War" for those who want some insight into the funding of the Mujahideen.
What an ignorant take. Radical Islam existed long before the US went there. Salafism and Wahhabism have been around for more then century at this point, to name two of several fundamentalist movements.
Muslims have been infighting with fundamentalists and more secular members of Islam for centuries.
The US surely didn't help, but they are so, so far from being the sole or main cause for the turmoil in Afghanistan and the middle east in general.
There is radical islam existing, and then there is radical islam being the dominant force it currently is.
For a big part, yes. Overthrowing democratic governments, funding radicals and bombing civillians tends to make people join the side that is seen as the enemies of the culprits of these crimes.
What? This country didn't allow education for women long before the US ever set foot there
That's some mental gymnastics. I dislike the US going abroad with their military as much as the next non-US person, but if I had to choose one instance where they weren't the biggest dicks on the battlefield, it would be Afghanistan.
It's too late. Americans have adopted the 'brown people need to solve their own problems' mantra for this generation.
Come back in 20 years when things are so shit we can no longer look away.
Yes, because achieving lasting positive change by killing people has worked SO well in Afghanistan of all places 🤦
Should have spent 20 years establishing islamic-free zones. You can only enter if you curse the prophet. Build up fortresses of civilization.
Or just the dark mosque where young men pray and literally learn to box with blindfolds in the dark to take out their rage.
Now imagine the next big movie, the transporter but next level badass, with beards, tattoos, swords, guns and straight up ICI the killer levels blood and Michael bay camera works. All in some middle eastern version of Bruce Lee but where the main character winds up fighting terrorists, Rambo, some random corrupt guy, his friends asshole neighbor and a whole gang of dudes who are all rapists or something strange like that, then there's some GTA bad guys, some Russian mobster guy, the Wagner guys, then the final boss is like Bin Ladens paedophile friend/cousin whose secretly an o.g traitor, and also an MMA fighter, a kamikaze pilot and a bomb maker guy who has an entire harem of children and even a secret chapel hidden in the mountains where he prays to an evil alternate Allah for more children or something.
The lore combined with the action would be enough to make a whole trilogy of badass
That's funny because they think the same thing about the United States, as clearly indicated by bin Laden's letter to the US.
Bin Laden was Saudi. And the 9/11 attackers, well, they very much put themselves in range of an exploding vest, metaphorically.
Bin Laden's letter
I'm just saying that he speaks in the exact same tone as this commentor and we should take note of the danger of this rhetoric.
Why should you give a shit what they do? I’ll hunt down anyone who commits acts of terror against the US, but I don’t give a fuck if these people want to repress their own people. It’s their choice how to live, not mine. One man’s repression is another’s freedom since religion makes people do dumbass things. They’re not worth the cost of a switchblade nor any of the other expensive shit we lobbed at that country for 2 decades. Once we had the guy that coordinated 9/11 we should have pulled out. They don’t want western style “civilization” they’re perfect happy (definitely not all of them) with their value and political system.
Guess I'm one of those weirdos who wants humans to have rights even if we don't share a flag or similar genitals.
Interesting thing about Afghanistan is that according to the UN, each government of a country is well within their rights to how they run their country within their own borders.
Yes, genocide and loss of freedom are frowned upon and sanctions are called - but as it is the religion and view of the country they are left to it. We can't push western values on another country.
Ah, yes, remember when the Taliban was democratically elected by the people of Afghanistan?
... oh. It wasn't?
Exactly - internal matter within own boarders.
No other government claims they are in Hargett.
Ah, it's just an "internal matter", like genocide.
I remember when the Afghanistan army folded in a week.
Is that what an election is?
No but when they spent 20 years helping the Taliban it pretty well reflected what the majority wanted
The idea that half of the people in a country are still people even if they had the audacity to be born without a penis shouldn't be a "western value". Read the article again and find a book or two about what goes on over there before suggesting that we follow the UN version of Starfleet's Prime Directive.
The argument for other country to everstretch itself can be that other country's problems leak over their borders. What is the reasonable limit there? Instead of 'we want oil', there can be another case of a biological weapon, or that Afganistan is the source of a world illegal drugs trade etc, or whatever. Even plain cultural or religious antagonism can be faned into a fire, sold to a public as good and just. Now, after what happened to Afghanistan after 20 years is discouraging, but in twenty years? With corrupt guys like Trump, a military lobby and other conflicts in acive phase?
You’re literally calling for raining bombs on a country of people who don’t want that… you’re not asking for human rights. You’re pushing your ideas of right on them. Have you learned nothing from what the middle eastern people have been telling western civilization over the last several years? They don’t want our ideas. They have religious texts that they believe sets up how to live and act for them. Just leave them the fuck alone and focus on our own countries.
Is there really no middle ground between "I don't give a fuck about them" and "Bomb the country" ?
In logical thinking there is, but not in US foreign policy.
No. Clearly only two options
I'm calling for raining bombs on a select group of people who can't seem to navigate their way out of the dark ages. Advocating for the "sit back and watch" position puts a higher value on the lives of tyrants than the rights of the people they oppress. If we kill the ones in charge who turn out to be assholes, they'll either run out of assholes or get the message. Both outcomes are fine.
So if Russia wants to bomb your leaders because your country allows slaves in prison like a middle age shithole, you wouldn’t mind do you? You should actually welcome it.
And then when your leaders keep ruling as tyrants by refusing to give universal healthcare to your people, the EU should execute your leaders immediately, you agree?
And when your police keep murdering black people, your leaders should once again get blasted, you’ll get the message eventually, right?
You wouldn’t disagree with these rightful bombings, would you? It’s all for putting you out of your oppression and the dark ages.
I am fine with that. If all the politicians in the US were put on show trials and hung tomorrow I would go to work same as normal. You can do that for the Wall Street fuckers as well, plus the health insurance people, the lobbyists, anyone who sits on a think tank.
Pretty much anyone who claims they get to rule over me and not provide people with a service. Go do whatever you want.
The problem is that these two things aren't, you know, unrelated. You say, the health insurance people, right, and I would generally agree they can go fuck themselves, but I think if we kill a bunch of them, the power vacuum will probably just fill itself with the exact same shit, while people slowly get radicalized and possibly become nationalistic because everyone's getting killed by a foreign government, you know, especially as the government that's getting bombed to shit starts cutting propaganda about it. You need to actively be providing an alternative that people will flock to, when you go and kill these people, otherwise, you'll just be eliminating infrastructure in the form of people, and you'll be turning everything into a dark age political radicalization hellzone.
: shrugs
really omega level convincing stuff, there.
I am not trying to convince anyone. I have my opinion.
Doesn’t fly very high.
You have made an accurate and fitting comparison, Vladimirovich. Definitely the same things going on in both cases.
You’re a clown. The US has literally banned abortion and you want to take the high moral ground. Lmfao.
Whatabout some more please.
This might come as a shock to you, but those are people just like you.
They're still worth saving even if they aren't from your country.
You'll understand when you're older, maybe.
They don't want to be "saved"
Really? You speak for all of them?
Obviously not for all, but demonstrably for the majority
Oh? When was that vote taken?
It's obvious when you listen to anyone outside of Kabul
It's a well documented fact that only people who live outside of cities count as people.
I see you have heard of the E.C.
Just because you're more exposed to them doesn't mean that the people in Kabul are worth more.
What about the ones who you don't speak for?
What about them?
Are they worth saving?
That depends on what you mean by saving
Lol. It didn't "depend on what I mean by saving" when you said "they don't all want to be saved."
Whatever you meant by saving, it's obvious that most Afghans don't want that kind of intervention.
Do you even know what you meant yourself?
The linked article suggests otherwise.
The linked article, like the vast majority of articles about Afghanistan, exclusively covers Kabul.
So the people in Kabul are not Afghan?
Go troll somewhere else
How am I trolling when you're the one claiming the people in Kabul don't count as Afghan?
Your reading comprehension is lacking, I never claimed such a thing. I talked about the majority of Afghanis and the vast majority of them to not live in Kabul.
You said nothing about the majority of Afghans (Afghani is a currency). Here is our entire conversation, starting with the comment I replied to:
I'm not sure what the point of this attempt at gaslighting is.
True, I confused you with a different comment chain. Doesn't change the bad-faith nature of your comments though
I love when you lemmings end your shit with “maybe when you’re older” like as if you’re some all knowing creature because you’re old as shit (boomer).
Maybe when you’re older you’ll learn to leave people the fuck alone that want to be left alone. We’ve tried world building enough. The Soviets, the British and the US. How many dead Middle Eastern people will it take before your colonial ass realizes it’s not what they want.
They’re only worth saving if they want to be saved. Keep worrying about your $1 food, I’ve got bigger things to be worried about that don’t involve making kids terrified of clear blue skies.
Gods, I'm probably going to regret this, but...
I agree with your overall point, but the unempathetic way you're expressing it is really off-putting to me. For example...
People say things like this all the time about problems that don't affect them and that they can't control (some other examples are homelessness, addiction, etc.). It always strikes me as being super uncaring and cold. No one's asking you to help them directly or to let it spoil your day or whatever -- but it takes absolutely zero effort to just briefly recognize systemic problems like these. In fact, I think it's important that we do so. Why? Because that shit could happen here as well. That 6th-grade girl could be me, or my nibling, or my neighbor, and there but for the grace of god go I. (It's an expression, I'm not being religious here.)
Yeah, yeah I know "thoughts and prayers" and all that noise, but I think it's more than that. There are oppressive religious entities here where I live in the US. Seeing what this leads to ... nothing we can do to stop it, right. And FFS the US sending our military to try to fix anything is absolutely ... "colonial" is a good term for it, as you said. Even non-military intervention, like when we send politicians to Latin American countries to lecture them on instability that we created. So wack.
But I can at least recognize the humanity here, and what it must feel like to get one of those girls. It doesn't really constitute "worry" to just care about another person and to express that.
While I disagree with your view on "happy" and "choice how to live", it is a very interesting discussion that a country never successfully developed democracy and equality without their own citizens fighting for it.
We can push our values all we want, but until people die for how they want to live it won't stick. Unfortunately America is declining for the same reason.
So I guess we should just take in the citizens who don't want to live in that environment.
There's plenty of room over here in the USA!
I’m not saying I’m happy, or that I think they’re objectively happy. They just don’t want anything else or can’t conceptualize anything else. The people of Afghanistan have a way of living that they’re comfortable with since they don’t show much resistance to the status quo. We spent trillions on that country trying to make it “western” and a “democracy” like the US when the reality is that they don’t want that. They also don’t know anything different other than when we brought them “freedom” it meant the sky occasionally rained death and explosions. I don’t have an answer for them, and as history has shown for that region no one has an answer. I just know I don’t want to spend my tax dollars blowing up random people on the other side of the planet because I don’t give a fuck about them and I don’t want them to actively hate me in the future.
Dude wtf are you on about. This is literally a thread about 12-year girls crying because they’re not "comfortable with…the status quo". They clearly do "know anything different", because that’s what they’re upset about.
I am sorry for those girls that their parent's were god fearing and as a result they have to suffer
Ok, we can go back to bombing random civilians then. I guess if we guise it under “human rights” this time it makes all the bad stuff go away. Y’all realize you’re literally asking for people to go in and bomb a sovereign nation solely because you disagree with how they’re living?
I feel for those girls and the future they want. I hope they can make it to a country that supports them and fosters the same ideals they hold. Sometimes the country or culture we’re born into doesn’t align with us. However those girls aren’t a majority. I can find Americans saying things the majority of us don’t agree with, I can find Iranians saying things the majority of Americans agree with. These don’t make those things true of each others cultures. You’re wanting to change a culture because it doesn’t align with your ideals rather than realizing that sometimes that’s exactly what people want.
I’ll leave you with this: The monarchy in Britain has centuries of human rights abuses, and is something I think is completely antithetical to Democratic principles. Yet 62% of Briton's support the monarchy. Should I be able to drone strike them just because I disagree or think it goes against human rights? Where does that line get drawn except in all y’all’s Weird brains of assuming you know what Afghani people want and should get.
That's a lot of words which you could have summarized as "I don't know how to compare things, 10 equals 10,000,000 because they're both numbers".
Oh, and P.S., "Afghani" is a currency. Not a people.
Oh dang, thanks for the catch!
To repeat a comment you got 3 hours ago:
Not when they’re content and approve of the way things are, and spare me the “but here’s a video of a person unhappy about it”. I guess I’ll shift back then so the people of Lemmy can be happy to my true American roots and say we should bomb them again randomly. I mean, it worked for 20 years apparently so why did we stop.
The middle ground is to be friends with them. They don’t want that either (can’t blame them on that one), so leaving them alone is our best course of action. Bombing their leaders because of “human rights abuses” is exactly what created Osama Bin Laden, ISIL, and every other terror group in the last 20+ years. I’m sick of fighting and being at war. My country, the US, can build some of the greatest infrastructure on the planet. I’d rather build that and spend money on humanitarian relief to help people after natural disasters.
Next go around at trying to colonize Afghanistan can be done by Australia if you want. I’d hope you all would have opened a history book by then, but probably not considering the thirst for blood in this thread.
Do those crying girls sound comfortable with their way of living to you?
People in America are ready to die for almost anything and that's unironically a bad thing