Caption: Taylor Swift, wearing a black turtleneck, holding her dinner.
Many people say she was born in Haiti. Why won’t she show her birth certificate?
I'll show her mine if she shows me hers first.
sir, close your trenchcoat, we're talking about documents here
Oh certificate, I thought you meant mark.
Yes citizen, roll up your sleeve and show me your trump nft tattoo
This tattoo's gonna gain so much value. To the moon!
lol really it was just a way for Putin to donate to trump’s campaign but here we are
Fun fact: genitals are jokingly referred to as documents in Brazil.
Haiti's gonna hate hate hate
Pretty solid response, all things considered. I hope it resonates with new voters to register and be engaged since the older folks are far too entrenched to move the needle.
The cat is like "What is going on? Put me on my bed, I have to sleep".
that cat looks actually really unbothered by what's happening
Yeah well played, they got a bunch of millions for promoting politics and they are going to chill in their private jet and buy groceries with it. Have fun today working to death to afford rent and cheap food.
Cool whataboutism
That's the reality
I cannot imagine being this mad about a win over Trump.
A post on the frontpage of lemmy with so many upvotes about a scummy pop celebrity endorsing the red and blue party is a lose for humanity and a win for any billionare or politician.
Not sure I've heard Swift described as "scummy" before.
And if you're so against billionaires and politicians, why are you for the billionaire politician from the party who wants to cut taxes for billionaires, and not the candidate from a working class background who wants to increase taxes for billionaires?
They'll say they aren't for him, of course. But consequentially, they are.
If you vote and support people with blood on their hands you are directly evil. If you push a two side narrative when it clearly not you are misleading people
Not sure I’ve heard Swift described as “scummy” before.
Scummy is a kind word for someone who fly his private jet to buy groceries. We are talking about one of the biggest polluting individual on the planet.
And if you’re so against billionaires and politicians, why are you for the billionaire politician from the party who wants to cut taxes for billionaires, and not the candidate from a working class background who wants to increase taxes for billionaires?
I'm neither for a billionare or for a genocide supporter. If you believe calling these out is showing them support you are probably a victim of their propaganda.
I don't believe Swift buys her own groceries, or that anyone on her staff takes a jet to the grocery store. That's just dumb.
I think it's ridiculous that we have a system where someone can make billions singing songs while people providing essential functions have troubles making ends meet, but I haven't heard any credible evidence that Swift exploits her staff.
a system where someone can make billions singing songs while people providing essential functions have troubles making ends meet
You just described how the exploitation works these days. By definition no billionare is kind: if you and me or the average person would turn into a billionare we would give so much money away that we wouldn't be billionare anymore. A billion is more than 999 millions, imagine wanting more than that. Don't expect anyone who seek that much wealth to be kind to others, their charity is the equivalent of the average person tipping 10 cents, probably less if you do the math.
Plane flights are tracked and public even for private jets, you can search for her rides. A quick search show they once did a minute flight to avoid a traffic jam...
Yet it's a loss for the billionaire-politician Trump... which is all that matters.
Wow, Trump is having a really bad day.
It’s delightful.
They own a skyscraper in new york and have enough wealth to afford all sort of commodities. The average person is going to have a much worst day and it's not delightful.
I dunno if Trump can enjoy his skyscraper from prison. With a windowed cell, maybe.
Ah yes the criminal who is soon to be president is going to jail any day now. Just you wait, any day.
Not with that attitude. "Is soon to be"?
Politicians don't go to jail
Chicago?
Many downvotes but no example.
Fine. Reference basically every Illinois governor since, well, ever (hyperbole).
Maybe you meant that no Republican politicians go to jail, only Democrats hold each other accountable? Not sure.
It's not their fault you ignore history. The burden of evidence is not theirs, but yours 👌
They "own" a skyscraper in new york and have enough wealth debt to afford have someone else pay for all sort of commodities
You made a few factual errors there, I took the liberty of fixing it
Could you be more triggered?
And he had all that before he got all this bad news about his only chance to avoid accountability.
And its Joever.
Was honestly never any doubt Taylor would support Kamala. She is pretty publicly Liberal with a capital L and tends to care about things like autonomy for women and all those crazy things. She probably would have stayed quiet for ticket sales but then the trump campaign deep faked her and...
Said it before and I'll say it again. If you have to fuck with a frothing at the mouth fandom? Go after k-pop before you go after T-swizzle.
And in case anyone isn't aware and is taking advice from this post, don't fuck with K-pop. They'll fuck you up.
Oh. K-pop stans will fuck your shit up and destroy any online infrastructure you have.
Swifties will fuck your shit up, burn down your home with you inside it, and piss on the ashes. All while their parents (and randos who got Swifty pilled by stuff like The Fall Guy) are grooving in the street and waving off hte cops.
She probably would have stayed quiet for ticket sales but then the trump campaign deep faked her and…
She might have done something more subtle like she did with Joe Biden cookies 4 years ago. I agree, in this case she had no choice but to share her opinion loud and clear.
Shit I wouldn’t go after K pop or the Beehive either.
8 believe they call themselves the "Beyhive"
Idk, the recent pic of her chummy day/night out with Brittany Mahomes planted quite a bit of doubt for me. There was a lot of speculation after those pictures released that she'd come out for Kamala, to get ahead of any backlash.
Just being nice to the wife of her boyfriend's buddy, not asking him to turn away from his friends, even if they're fools. As my daughter said, those football guys get hit in the head a lot...
I personally think the company you choose to keep says a lot about you. There's being polite with your partner's friends and then there's being all over someone like a bestie. It's amazing how well her PR machine works that she gets white knighted so much, even on Lemmy. May I remind everyone that she is a billionaire and didn't get to be one accidentally. She's just as bad as the rest of them, she just pays people to make her seem not as threatening, and it's clearly working based on all the free defense she gets on the internet.
She's not your friend. Arguably, she's Brittany Mahome's friend.
Yes. The company she keeps is her boyfriend. Her boyfriend who is a tight end (hee hee) on the same team that Mahomes is a quarterback on. That means he only "looks good" if Mahomes throws to him.
Welcome to being an adult. Yes, there are thresholds where you say "Fuck off, I don't care". But when it can potentially ruin your partner's career to not smile and nod? You act like an adult and smile and nod. And then you go off on them during the car ride home (well... plane ride for T-Swizzle).
Nobody (sane) is going to argue that Taylor is a secret leftist or anything. But she has consistently shown that she cares about LGBTQ+ rights and Womens' Rights (whether as part of her brand or as herself, it doesn't matter) and quietly endorsed Biden. The only question was whether she would stay silent, quietly endorse Kamala, or release a press release. She chose the press release.
But hey, feel free to continue making deranged purity tests that just alienate everyone else. That totally leads to electoral wins and change.
It's not deranged. There are degrees and nuances to all human relationships and situations but this was and is a pretty public one. These are hard choices for anyone but they do still matter. I don't think smiling and nodding is acting like an adult, I think it's cowardly. There is no maturity in avoiding things.
They waited for the contract
She wouldn't bother with the pennies they could afford to pay her.
Billionares are money addicts with a mental disorder, they would still lower themself even for 50 dollars. Being endorsed by the establishment is how you become a pop star and how your albums magically top more skilled artists than you.
She's a billionaire you dolt.
Couldn't give two shits about all these Pop Star positions. I do delight in this specific one because Trump's campaign fucked with her, and drew a line in the sand with regard to Generative AI bullshit in a campaign.
They deserve all the negative press that comes from this, and much more. I don't care for Taylor Swift, but I like this move.
It's the Hive Mind Stans phenomenon that fascinates me, meme-activated collective action that is a very modern social body.
Some of the stuff BTS ARMY got up to was fantastic and a bit scary. Also large numbers. Very large.
So the Swifties haven't been weaponized yet. But they could be, soon. Having deepfake A.I. impersonation of fans made by fascist followers of a reality TV star be the thing that raises their state of collective power to Ready is just... well, I am living in a Gibson novel.
Look, I am not a billionaire loving guy anymore than some of you are.
But has anyone here considered that Musk has made an impact on the views of young white men (whom also happen to be Republican and Conservative or Proud Boys?
Does it bother us that these men follow a billionaire who doesn't give two shits about them? Yes.
Do I care that Taylor Swift is the opposite of that and encourages young women and men, be it black, gay, trans, etc to be opposite end of that spectrum. Fuck yes, we shouldn't base our views off the rich but has it ever occurred to anyone here that it is using those billionairs to represent and have them be vocal with the power they hold with our views instead?
I will absolutely take Taylor Swift speaking up and saying what she believes in and her giving that voice to 100000+ people whose only voice is heard in a vote if her speaking up also encourages people to say fuck Trump and and Musk and every fucking dumb ass on this post that thinks Taylor speaking out is a bad thing by comparison to it somehow being worse then what they already do with Musk.
Fuckem, fuck billionaires, but God damn keep fucking roasting them TSwiftie.
If I had a platform that millions of people listened to (which I don't), and strongly held beliefs about how the country could be made better for everyone (which I do), why wouldn't I use my platform to share those beliefs? How could I not?
No one MUST obey what either of them says, just like no one would be compelled to obey me in my hypothetical. But I don't really have a problem with any person using whatever platform they've found themselves with to express their own beliefs and desires. I don't think people lose the right to free expression just because they are rich and/or famous and/or powerful.
Edit: And if you piss a lot of people off and lose all your advertisers because your opinions are repugnant and awful - well hey, that's the choice you made.
Ironically, Taylor Swift was, up to this point, trying very hard NOT to use her platform. Just read her post. She's BEGGING the reader not to blindly follow her in voting, and do their own research and make their own choice. She'd said she'd wait until after her tour to endorse a candidate (which would have been after the election 🤣 ), but she says in her post that the AI DeepFake Endorsement she 'made' of Trump compelled her to give up her secret ballot and outright state she's voting for Harris.
Great point and apologies for glossing over that. I guess my reply just blurred into my general opinion about people dismissing or being grumpy about "celebrity" endorsements or political statements.
I hear ya. Yeah, I do agree with 'you shouldn't make a political opinion based on what a celebrity does,' but the reality is that people might waiver until they hear someone they like and trust (like a celebrity) makes a decision. Sad fact of life in this popularity contest we call a political system. ;)
why wouldn't I use my platform to share those beliefs?
I think it's perfectly valid to say "the system that gave me this platform is unfair and I shouldn't have benefited from it to the degree that I have, but I have the platform now so I'm going to use it for good."
I'm not down with billionaires either, but at least she's using her fame and money towards some good things.
It's one of the very few ethical ways to become a billionaire I think. If you sell an album or book for $10, and you're a global sensation, it's reasonable you'll get 100 million people buying it. It just falls on you then to use that money for his good reasons and adequately compensate people who support you. And Swift has generally been really good about that.
Yes, agreed. I do think overall that being a billionaire necessitates someone else (lots of someone elses) getting the shaft. But there are degrees of... billionairism, and she is on the right side of that, albeit still a billionaire.
I think overall that is very much so the case. This is the exception, not the norm.
It's almost like people have attributes other than their net worth.
every fucking dumb ass on this post that thinks Taylor speaking out is a bad thing by comparison to it somehow being worse then what they already do with Musk.
If your political opinion is swayed by either a pop star or a billionaire, you're kinda a dumb ass. Full stop.
Good thing dumbasses can't vote...
I think you forgot the /s.
You'd be surprised.
.... what? Are you serious? 80% of voters are dumb asses...
That's just how people work. Belief is social. We all value input from people we see as members of our in-group more than outsiders.
First, thank you for your comment without personal attacks, I'm getting torn up over here, but its me that is getting reported and comments removed for "incivility."
Anyway, what you say is true, but I believe we need to be discerning with respect to our political influences and sources. I don't think it's necessarily wrong to consider the opinions of others (pop star or not), but it should not have the weight to sway our voting one way or the other
If only people were more logical and calm, like men! /s
Your political movement is impotent if it can't seduce. Here's an underrated short tube essay on the political power of bimbos:
https://youtu.be/FeRIE6JDhCQ
I love the focus on the 'childless cat lady' line.
I think that line epitomises the pointless spite that characterises MAGAism. The constant bullying and insults are entirely unnecessary to their agenda but they just can't stop themselves, and if we end up post-November with them wondering how things might have gone had they not insulted tons of voters this way then I'll find that delicious.
I suppose the counterpoint is that the insults and bullying might well be necessary, that their 'othering' and painting opponents as lesser, more ridiculous, less human enemies is a core part of how such populist fascist movements gain traction. "The cruelty is the point," as some say.
It's totally the point. The problem is they are running out of "outsider" groups they can demonize effectively so they have turned towards their own potential voters (mainly women).
As much as they want to turn transgender people into the new jews, most people just don't have that much of a problem with them.
IMHO it's harder to demonize a group that might include your son or daughter. Their racism persists because there are no white people who discover that they've actually been black their whole lives.
Although, I bet if those racist assholes took DNA tests many of them would find they did have some African-American blood, especially if they were from the South.
The constant bullying and insults are entirely unnecessary to their agenda
The constant bullying and insults are the very core of fascist strategy.
So of course Musk immediately threatens to “give her a child”. Like a normal not weird person.
Her statement was impeccable. She mentioned the AI generated fake image which appeared three weeks ago. This is the response that had to be made by her. She signed it Childless Cat Lady. Perfect.
Instead of letting Trump pick the time, she picked the time that hurt him the most.
I'd bet my left testicle all these millionaire and billionaire celebrities are actually voting Republican.. they're just too afraid of the backlash to admit it... lol.
Now the Biden administration needs to follow through and declare election day a federal holiday.
Isn’t that power assigned to Congress?
Average Americans and thinking the President is all-powerful, name a more iconic duo.
Average americans and thinking that a national holiday means anything. I've worked the majority of the holidays for the past 10 years. They don't even count for overtime unless the policies (sort of contract) of the employer state they do.
Yes, it happens, but the majority of American workers still had Labor Day off this year.
It would have a measurable impact on voter turnout.
The people who can get holidays off are generally the people who have the means to vote otherwise.
Until the last few years, the only time I had holidays off were if I could get someone to switch with me, meaning at least someone was working that day.
Labor day didn't mean shit to me working at fast food, and retail has sales instead of closing.
Walmart ain't closed on labor day and neither is McDonald's.
That's the first and second largest employers in the world, not respecting the holiday literally made for their employees.
Yeah, I sorta think people who have to work on Labor Day might eclipse people with office jobs.
True, however worst thing they could do is impeach him and make Kamala President.
If Taylor Swift spearheads voter registration drives in swing states and Pennsylvania specifically, the race could be over.
I don't imagine most of her fans are of voting age, but the exposure certainly can't hurt.
I mean...Trump has a 60-something year old retired wrestler, and a 50-something trashrock star for his celebrity endorsements.
One seems more significant than the other, especially for women.
Fun fact: Swift's first album is old enough to vote.
Why would you make me face my mortality in this way
Listen. And understand. Time is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.
I'm the same age as Taylor and I see at least one of my peers attending her concerts every week on social media. Her reach right now is insane.
Sure, I get that. I'd just like the obvious sane choice to be made more than a celebrity endorsement. Feels pretty shitty that we're at this point.
Our last president was a celebrity, and that's the second actor we've had as president alone. What point are you referring to?
Taylor is 34 and has been popular for over a decade. There are young fans, but she has millions of fans of voting age
All of my coworkers are Swifties who attend her concerts and constantly play her music. Most of them are in their 30s and 40s. Her audience isn't as young as you'd think, she's been making music for decades now.
Perfect. Now she'll do a voter registration drive.
Also if you've been sitting on a donation for Harris between now and the next 24 hours will give Harris another big news cycle bump.
Puttin your money where your Kamouth is
But I saw PICTURES that she SUPPORTED Trump! Her LITERALLY SAYING SHE ENDORSES KAMALA is Fake News! Trump would NEVER lie to me!
-Republicans who do their Own Research!
Some folks here really seem to think that her fans don't have any political opinions without her. This is actually as much about her politically engaged fan base wanting her to use her platform for good, than it is about swaying people who might be very young or unsure about voting.
Lots of swifties are millenials who lean left and liberal and some have criticized her in the past for not speaking up or for leaving her views ambiguous in a way that left room for the right to coopt her image. This is not about silly pop fans needing to be told what to think. People aren't ignorant. It's exactly because she's powerful and very wealthy, that it's important for her to use her power to be very clear about where she stands. Especially in light of the ai thing and the Brittany Mahomes weirdness.
obviously a lot of them are engaged, but the US is famously bad at actually voting, so this might make a significant difference in who votes.
NEW: A General Services Administration spox tells NPR that as of 11 a.m. ET today there have been 306,422 visitors to http://vote.gov referred from Taylor Swifts’s URL she shared on Instagram last night
ideally it should, we saw something similar after kamala harris took over biden.
and some have criticized her in the past for not speaking up or for leaving her views ambiguous in a way that left room for the right to coopt her image.
This seems important to her, especially considering her timing – she mentioned that the right has been circulating deep fakes of her falsely claiming she endorsed trump.
Can't wait for Trump's reaction. I guess the pictures of support for him were fake, huh?
No shit.
As fake as his blonde spray over his 78 year old gray hair
Very doubtful that that's even his real hair at this point.
Dear Trump
We, are never ever ever, getting back together.
Sincerely, The White House
Been waiting for this since Trump decided to attack her and her fanbase, and misuse her image without her permission.
Go on, you MAGA idiots, start shouting at Taylor Swift. I dare you.
Why on earth would he poke that bear?
Taylor Swift absolutely can drive voter registrations at levels that would easily supersede the 10-20k that swing states will be decided by, just based on her word. And her fanbase spreads across multiple demographics.
I'd be shocked if her announcement alone doesn't drive 100k registrations nationwide in the next 48 hours.
Let flip some red states swifties
It’s gonna be brutal when she’s one-upped by er … Kid Rock.
No! Wait, Ted Nugent.
Yeah, suck it Swifters.
Instead of posting a screenshot and a link, they posted a broken Instagram embed instead. Come on.
Hey it's a small indie publication cut them some slack.
Nail, here is the coffin.
Friendly reminder - don't stop and go vote.
"Kamala, obviously."
It’s over now right?
Nope. Go vote.
Agreed! And go register and plan your vote. Make a plan now. Especially in some states where there's different degrees of voter suppression, you need to take extra steps to make sure you get your vote counted. There's an army of MAGAts and right wing lawyers trying to stop certain voters, kick them off the voter rolls, or make up rules to keep you from voting. Don't let them stop you.
I'm voting BLUE! Won't you?
You relay on people who listen to popstars to vote instead of just making tiktoks about how they vote?
I mean she is probably the most popular pop star in the world, so I think it is breaking news if it helps the disenfranchised youth vote for Kamala over Trump.
Unfortunately celebrity worship is influence, and influence is the key in elections. No influence, no vote. It is power. And the amount of influential power Taylor swift has is absolutely staggering. I wouldn't be surprised if her endorsing kamala brings in tens if not hundreds of thousands of voters to register.
I'm skeptical that the kinds of people that would be swayed to vote for Kamala solely due to Taylor Swifts endorsement, are the kinds of people who see breaking news on NBC.
It's not breaking news, which was my OP LOL. She could probably have the intended effect on tik tok and Twitter.
But still, I don't really care, if it gets more votes against trump I'm all for it.
It ain't breaking news though LOL. Putin launching a nuke is breaking news.
Yeah, the fact that I keep seeing this as breaking, or important, news makes me want to break into a broadcast center and pull a "The Network".
::: spoiler NBC News - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for NBC News:
Well of course she did... it's easy being a Democrat celebrity....
Agreed. It sure is easy to publicly not be a cunt.
Have a downvote with that salty wine
lol you say that as if Trump didn’t get away with everything forever
"Breaking News" 🤦♂️ Ugggghhhh.
*I guess nobody else is tired of celebrities holding the US political system hostage.
I mean.. one of the most influential people on the planet just endorsed a candidate for President. That is pretty breaking news.
More importantly, she was waiting for the best time to do it. I would hate to be the guy who has to tell Trump.
He’s currently standing awkwardly in the spin room hoping that people will talk to him.
Who would want to talk to a felon and adjudicated rapist? Gross!
I’m sure some reporters talked to him. There are some pretty amusing clips of him just sorta standing around awkwardly.
There is a non-zero chance that some reporter told him about the Taylor Swift endorsement. I truly hope he responded with the grace and elegance he had on display all night 😂
Trump’s left brain cell: “Woman no agree with me so she ugly!”
Trump’s right brain cell: “But woman blonde like Ivanka! I want to sex her!”
bzzrtPOP
[system malfunction]
(Second brain cell added for artistic license)
while I personally don't like when people use clout for things like this, some people don't realize how big politically she can be. She outright had governments fighting for show exclusivity just so she would choose their country for people to travel to. Her influences has whole damn governments fighting each other.
I’ll take it!!!
There's always something to complain about
It actually is though. When they use the same header two days from now....
Why do we care what a rich entertainer thinks?
Maybe we don't, but she's got a huge fanbase and they probably do.
Just let her and ja rule decide who's the next president. Why the extra steps?
Why do they assign weight to her perspective?
Because they admire her
Is it wise that they assign her perspective value because they admire her ability to sing and dance?
it's not, but they do anyway
This story has nearly 600 upvotes, so far. Does that imply that we care about winning more than we care about the the wisdom and agency of others?
yes
Is that moral and ethical?
Is derping to get Trump elected moral or ethical?
Is perpetuating false dichotomy?
It's not a false dichotomy at all. The choice in this national election, like basically all national elections preceding it, is between the two major party candidates.
Since that's the reality, any actions you're taking regarding the election and its discussion can be correctly regarded as support for one candidate or the other.
So I ask you again, is derping to help get Trump elected moral or ethical?
I care about one thing above everything else -- Keeping Donald Trump away from the levers of power. And I have good reasons for this:
My wife is a Black bisexual Goth Pagan. That's at least three hates from Team Trump.
I have Student Loans. I can repay them at 5% of my income, but 10% will become too much of a burden. And I'd really like to get my 120 payments in to get the rest wiped out.
I care about the future of the planet. Having a guy raging against Solar and Wind for stupid made up reasons in office doesn't support that goal.
I care about keeping Russia out of Ukraine and Israel out of Palestine. While I also care about keeping Hamas out of Israel, I think Trump is bad for ALL those goals.
And that's just the short list.
I support Biden and his successor Harris on the merits, too. The Chips Act is a great win for really getting microchips made in the US. Biden's done a damn good job on investing in US infrastructure, which is an important thing to me. His attempts to deal with Student Loans are a big part of why I have stopped taking night classes and reentered repayment. And he's doing a damn fine job overall. But again. My goal above all other goals is keeping Trump away from the White House.
A vote for RFK Jr. is not going to accomplish this. Not only is he an anti-evidence candidate pushing BS conspiracy theory positions and only a few steps to the left of Trump et al, he's also not going to win, and the most he could do is poach enough left-leaning votes with his last name to get Trump in office.
A vote for Jill Stein is not going to accomplish this. Not only is she a sycophant for Putin and a peddler of disinformation herself (reasons alone to vote against her), her position as an alternative to the Mainstream Left-Most candidate is just another way to steal enough left-wing votes to ... get Trump into office.
A vote for Cornel West is not going to accomplish this. While I admire the man, the reality is that he doesn't have enough access to have even a remote chance of winning the Presidency, and his run only ensures that votes that would have gone to Harris end up going to him, lowering the threshold at which Trump can steal the Presidency...getting Trump into office.
Staying home is not going to accomplish this. All it does is lowers Harris' vote count, making it easier for Trump to steal the Presidency...getting Trump into office.
My goal is to ensure my Black bisexual goth pagan wife doesn't get ground under the bootheels of Trumpian Authoritarianism. One of the ways I do this is by debunking posts like this. I don't care about winning. I care about Trump losing. And I don't see wisdom here. I see...well, Rule 3 so I can't say what I exactly see here, but it's not wisdom or any of its synonyms. I see a willing dismissal of truth here, a poster arguing to give the election to Trump because the Democratic candidate isn't EXACTLY what they demanded. And agency? Pal, nobody's holding a gun to your head and saying you MUST vote Harris. Do any of the options I mentioned above, or go ahead and vote Trump, or any other silly 'protest' vote you want. We're just here saying that you're gonna get Trump for all of us and screw over a whole bunch of people you claim to support.
I'm also a triple minority. I'm not afraid of Trump. I've suffered his kind my whole life.
Perhaps the way to progress is to put the platform you want on every Presidential ballot in 2028. You know how that's done, right?
This poster took one bullet point out of four to nitpick on, while ignoring everything else I posted. I wonder WHY, and you should to, dear reader.
Again. My sole goal is to get Trump away from office, and yes, if I have to work with Progressives, Moderates, Mainstream Democrats, Conservative Dems, and even moderate Republicans, I think we make that work. Actual Progressives feel that we've made real progress on a variety of issues, including Student Loans, Green Energy, and minority rights that will be reversed and reversed hard by a Trump admin. Rather than let this poster spew this nonsense unchallenged, I am here articulating where it is wrong and why you shouldn't listen to it. Please keep this in mind as you read our exchanges, dear reader, and remember: There ARE factions out there trying to get you to throw your vote behind a Third Party or stay home, for the express goal of allowing Trump to steal the election and tear down everything you love. Remember that as you read posts that tell you vote Third Party or just stay home.
This poster assumed bad faith maliciousness instead of asking questions. They can't tell friend from foe. But, they've certainly lots of words to express the status quo reasoning prevalent among you.
express the status quo reasoning prevalent among you.
They admire more than that. But, like, there’s an implication in the fact that you are posting on Lemmy that you believe people should assign a nonzero value to your perspective; why is that? I would assume that you make your arguments and believe they have value based on their own merit, regardless of the fact we have no idea who you are. Well, Taylor Swift made a post where she stated her position and gave arguments too. Is there any reason her perspective should not have any value but yours and mine should?
Furthermore, if someone does know who she is and wants to also take into account that they admire her music and songwriting, her personality, her perspective, and/or her various life accomplishments, why shouldn’t they? We’re talking about politics here, where everyone is making it up as they go along. She’s not trying to use her celebrity status to get a paper published in a physics journal or something.
I've done little more than ask questions about why someone should respect her political perspective because she's rich singer and dancer.
Yes, I noticed you were asking that question, hence my reply which took your question into account. If you get a chance, you could try doing the same.
There's so much bullshit here that I acted as if you also posted bullshit. I apologize. I've read your post in full and more carefully.
I can't seem to find her post in full, only snippets of her conclusion. Mass media sucks that way. Do you happen to know where I can find her post, unedited and without making an account?
So you replied to my post without reading, still didn’t address the questions I asked after acknowledging this, and are now shamelessly saying you also never even read Taylor Swift’s post in the first place before making all your comments. And yet your thesis is that there’s no reason to place any value on what she says?
Is there any reason her perspective should not have any value but yours and mine should?
She provides nearly no reasoning for her perspective.
Furthermore, if someone does know who she is and wants to also take into account that they admire her music and songwriting, her personality, her perspective, and/or her various life accomplishments, why shouldn’t they?
She's rich, a marketed character. She shouldn't be trusted by default.
We’re talking about politics here, where everyone is making it up as they go along. She’s not trying to use her celebrity status to get a paper published in a physics journal or something.
This ridiculous comparison, and being outright incorrect in it, is why your questions weren't answered. I've rectified that.
And yet your thesis is that there’s no reason to place any value on what she says?
No reason? I didn't say that. I said the implied reasons to value her perspective aren't meritable.
Now that I've read her post I find I was entirely correct. She's chosen what's safe, politic, and popular: conclusions without reasoning. She could've risked what her conscience should've told her was correct. But, she predictably didn't.
So, let's break down her post, because I'm sure you didn't read it.
She watched the debate, and asks for all voters to research the candidates and make their own conclusions.
Literally, her first paragraph is an appeal to each and every American to research the issues and the candidates and come to their own conclusions. Nowhere does she opt to tell you how to vote. In fact, she says repeatedly to do your own research and make your own choice.
An AI DeepFake of her endorsing Trump encouraged her to come out and make her voting choice clear.
She explained the problems with DeepFakes and AI bullshit, and used that as a justification for revealing what is normally a secret ballot. She didn't want to endorse anyone. In fact, it was stated she'd keep her mouth shut about her politics to protect her fans until her current tour was done (elsewhere, not in this thread) which meant she was initially planning on not revealing her choice at all, which most voters actually do, since our ballots are secret and all. But when Trump claimed her (fake) endorsement, she had to stop and set the record straight, despite not wanting to bring the backlash on her fans.
Her voting choice is for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz. She's even listed some of her reasons, including Walz' support for LGBQ rights, women's rights, and other choices he's made for decades, and keeping the chaos of Donald Trump and the GQP away from the levers of power in the US.
She doesn't go deeper into this, admittedly and maybe even unfortunately, just saying she believes Harris/Walz is the better choice to run the country for the next 4 years. She basically just lays out what motivated her to pick the team she did, and why she didn't pick the other team (Team Chaos). But there's a reason for this!
She implores you to do your research and make your choice, like she did her research and made her choice. She reminds you that whatever choice you make, you need to make sure you are registered, and says she will link registration processes to her story in the future.
Nowhere in any of this does she tell you who to vote for. She doesn't want to. She just asks you to do your research, both on the candidates and issues, AND on how to properly cast your vote this election. I'm sure if you popped up on her thread and said you were going to vote for whatever candidate, she'd say 'good on you, make sure you are making the right choice, and check these links to verify you can actually vote!' She seems to be the kind of person that lets you make your own decisions.
Will Swifties see her voting for Harris as a justification for voting for Harris? Probably. I hope she continues emphasising that people should make up their own minds based on their own research, while advocating for harm reduction and de-chaosing. That seems to be in line with how she functions. And you should never base what your vote is going to be on how someone else votes. I would have liked to have seen a more detailed breakdown of her decision and a link to the sources she made her decisions off of, but let's get real. MANY people don't have an academic background and know how to cite their sources, so...yeah. I won't expect it from Taylor Swift.
In conclusion, she's not giving 'reasoning for her perspective' because she's not telling you who to vote for. She's saying who she's voting for because AI put words in her mouth that the major candidate most opposed to her positions used to claim her endorsement. That's all.
She's at least as qualified as one of the candidates to have a perspective, and has an edge because she hasn't bankrupted any casinos, sabotaged a nation's pandemic response, or raped any kids that I know about. Not that qualification is necessary to have or state a perspective.
I strongly question the judgement of anyone who questions the judgement of someone advising voting against Trump.
She's at least as qualified as one of the candidates to have a perspective
Your measure of merit is "relative to shit".
I strongly question the judgement of anyone who questions the judgement of someone advising voting against Trump.
You don't care for facts and reason, only agreement.
That's not a perspective that deserves respect.
You have yet to demonstrate any facts or reason.
"Don't vote for the shit candidate" otoh is reasonable.
"Don't vote for the shit candidate" otoh is reasonable
I agree. That's why I won't vote for Trump, Harris, or anyone else that funds their campaigns with corporate money.
You could just as well ask why people assign weight to Trump's perspective, but instead you're asking about Taylor Swift.
I'd rather they not vote at all if they're just basing their choice on what some billionaire entertainer says.
It's about sending a message, setting a signal. People should think for themselves, I agree, but come on. Do you ignore all other forms of influence people experience or what weird world do you live in?
what weird world do you live in?
The one where shitloads of people let celebrities influence how they think.
I hate to break it to you, but Trump himself was a celebrity turned president. So we've no choice but to live in a world where celebrity seems to be important as some kind of qualification. His other qualification was "businessman" aka used-car-salesman.
Yes, my opinion on that is consistent with my previously stated opinion that people should not be listening to celebrities in regards to politics. The same goes for Reagan. Neither of those fuckers should have ever been taken into account but because morons just believe whatever the TV tells them too here we are. Just because the celebrity in question happens to be supporting our side this time doesn't make it a good thing.
But whether you like it or no rich entertainers like Taylor Swift get lots of media and views. Which parleys into influence and bringing attention to a candidate or an idea.
This is the reason why anyone that wants to grow a brand and/or an idea will try to get a celebrity to endorse it.
Edit: This doesn't mean they know more than the average joe it's all about marketing
Why do others assign value to her perspective? Is she especially qualified to decide whom others should vote for?
Probably because they feel aligned with her values and see her success as an indicator that she is smart. Therefore, she is someone worth emulating.
Does the rich singer and dancer represent her values honestly, is it marketing, or is there some of both? Is it wise to assign her perspective value?
If people used logic, Trump would never have made into politics to begin with.
If the majority was logical then we'd have been revolting for the repeal of Glass-Steagall and the passing of the Interstate Branching and Banking Efficiency Act.
I think it's far more important to encourage wisdom than pretend to play whack-a-mole with bank-owned politicians.
What do you think?
How do you propose we go about changing this? How do we effectively encourage it?
I think that purely logical thought is impossible, and believing we are a logical person can lead us to assume all our opinions are logical, inherently. Which leads to using after the fact logic to justify initial gut reactions. Is that what you mean by wisdom? The ability to understand your own emotional reaction and decide if it's based on anything useful? Or is it something else?
I think, at this point in time, celebrity culture is important to be aware of. Trump was a reality tv star, after all. I think a better world could be made if society didn't care about celebrities, but that is not where we live, and observing reality seems an important step to understanding it. And understanding it can help us determine if there is a way to alter this. If that's the goal. Is that the purpose to your questions?
Now that the main glut of whatever has passed, I want to express that your post above, particularly your question, made my day. It's perhaps the best question I've been asked engaging with .world. Thank you.
How do you propose we go about changing this? How do we effectively encourage it?
You're witnessing one very small act of praxis right now. But, my best results are always IRL, personal, in a recurring one-on-one or small group discussion. And, I'm not to lead that discussion, instead following where the others lead, the only boundary logical fallacy.
A poor summary would be "Agency at all costs." But, a good answer to your question would require a very lengthy response. My greatest influence in means is Pedagogy of the Oppressed by Paulo Freire (1968). But, there's so many good tools, from the New Testament to the emotional delivery of Malcolm X. Being able to adapt is critical. Perhaps most important is to risk making it personal.
I'm going to take a stab at interpreting Crashhumbc's post.
Politics is a popularity contest. You're imploring Swift to write a fully cited research paper with academic rigor to justify her vote. Most people just go into the ballot box and pick the name that appeals the most to them. You are unrealistic in your evaluation of people, and hold major influencers (aka Celebrities) to standards that nobody else will.
Taylor Swift is a pretty blonde girl with a hot body, and a rocking singing voice and dancing skill to make the most of that hot body. Her original plan was to withhold her voting choice until after the election so she could focus on her current tour and not get right-wing agitators harming her or her fans. But then somebody made a DeepFake of her endorsing Trump, and she had no choice.
She explicitly does not want to tell her fans how to vote. She starts with that, reiterates it throughout her screed, and ends with it. But she makes it clear she's NOT endorsing Trump, but instead, voting against him.
Will her fans change their votes based on what she's said she's going to do? Yes. Unfortunately. They'll not read the three+ times she says "vote for who you think the best choice is, not who I think the best choice is", and only see her "I am voting Harris/Walz." You can't expect her to be responsible for her fans' poor choice in decision making, though. She's not telling you how to vote, and she doesn't want you to vote with her. That's a huge part of why she said she'd not release her voting choice 'until after her tour' (which ends after the election). Had the Deepfakers not made a video of her endorsing Trump, we'd still probably be guessing at who she supports.
Your research is all yours to do, and the choice is yours to make.
Swift quote from the article. She is telling people to make their own decisions, whilst announcing her own choice and making no claims about qualifications. What is wrong with this?
What is wrong with this?
Her reasoning isn't communicated in adequate nuance to earn respect for her perspective. She's chosen what's safe, politic, and popular rather than risk what her conscience should tell her is right.
Oh geez, I'm guessing you are the one who knows what's right and speaks the true wisdom of all our consciences.. Let us all bow down in respect to Sir Derpy of the correct nuance
My standards are high relative status quo and average relative very basic moral and ethical analysis. I'll encourage you to choose to also set a higher standard. As a human you deserve better.
She doesn't decide who they vote for.
Why does anyone care what a singer and dancer thinks about political representation?
You're asking more questions in this thread than anyone. I'd be curious why you care so much about who this celebrity endorses. I'm guessing it has more to do with who they endorse than their lack of political background.
I'm guessing it has more to do with who they endorse than their lack of political background.
That's because it's convenient and comfortable.
I don't care what people choose. I only care about the comprehensiveness and quality of their facts and reason.
You're asking more questions in this thread than anyone.
Isn't it meritable to ask questions?
Isn’t it meritable to ask questions?
not when your questions amount to "why would people listen to her?!?!" when you know full well why - its the same reason Trump already used AI Taylor Swift to endorse himself.
You write like a freshman who has been enjoying debate club starting back up.
I don’t care what people choose. I only care about the comprehensiveness and quality of their facts and reason.
If you ultimately didn't care who they choose, and instead just their line of thinking surely you wouldn't be so riled up by something you knew was coming? The Richest man in the world bought a social media platform that now has a main purpose of getting Trump elected.
Your tired "just asking questions act" would be better suited for Facebook in like 2015
You write like a freshman
I must meet my audience where the are.
She's not allowed to or qualified to have an opinion according to you?
My point is that not everyone's opinion deserves respect.
For example, you've resorted to strawman instead of asking a question. It'll be quite difficult for me to respect anything else you've to say on the topic.
Why on Earth would you say that, unless you think your opinion is important and valid and worthy of being heard? Yet you out here arguing other people's opinions aren't. Wow, great mind. Cry about strawmen a bit more.
I say it because it's the truth of your actions. It's an error you're now continuing to make.
That won't work out well for you, not even online. Best of luck.
That's some cringy shit.
She stated in her post a major motivation for her was the fake AI pictures Trump and Co circulated a few weeks ago, so they definitely care. I actually admire that she is simply stating she plans to vote for Harris, rather than outright endorsing her. Swift advises people to be politically informed and to vote. I think that's a pretty good message for anyone to say.
She stated in her post a major motivation for her was the fake AI pictures Trump and Co circulated a few weekss ago
That's definitely a part she should've left out.
Why? Again it was her motivation for the post?
Inclusion implies that if she'd not been targeted then she'd not have spoken up.
I won't doubt that there is some intention there along those lines. Maybe she wanted it to be read that way. I see it more along those lines than a full-blown endorsement.
I perceive its appeal to MLK's "white moderate".
Why do we care what you think?
Because you subscribed? If you don't care what people think here just unsubscribe and move on.
I don't recall subscribing to sirderpy's Tucker Carlson questions simulator. Where do I unsubscribe?
Because she has a ridiculous number of fans and this may spur some of them to vote that might not have otherwise.
Hopefully she reiterates it shortly before election day to stir people into action.
Is it wise to want others to choose based on propaganda instead of fact and reason?
No, but it's what we get. Reality and what is wise do not often go hand in hand.
Should we attempt to change that or upvote 600 times to propagate the nonsense?
We don't, this is propaganda
Do you even know what propaganda is?
You know, like Trump basically fabricating Swift's support though bullshit AI and forcing her hand
Do you even know what propaganda is?
This post: the government giving money to pop artists to make them more famous and to do ads for them, also the government spending millions to advertise in online platforms.
There's almost 600 upvotes so far. If this is propaganda then that fact speaks for itself.
If you are a fan of this pop celebrity you are most likely a victim of propaganda and marketing.
She's an incredible singer and dancer. I've respect for her talent and hard work. If she ever decides to create content for adults and take some risks in composition then I'd probably even enjoy her music.
But, she's targeting adolescents and young adults. I agree that the majority are victims of propaganda and marketing.
This sub is propagating that nonsense. That's not good.
she’s targeting adolescents and young adults.
Sound like their are more of a salesman than an incredible artist. Do you have any videos of their best performances? So far what i've seen on youtube is far from incredible.
I'm not sure of what to recommend as I'm not a fan. I've only seen a smattering of what was popular over the years. But, I also don't think it's difficult to recognize a strong vocalist or dancer. I admit she's not Whitney or MJ, that "incredible" was exaggeration of my perspective.
I'm also curious. I'd like to see what her fans consider her best.
Yet another reason to note vote for that parrot drone of a politician. Ignorant person endorsing an ignorant person.
And when did it become important who a pop star "endorses"? Should it really help sway opinion?
Gtf outta here.
What sort of direct action do you endorse?
Probably some delusional fantasy of revolution
Lol... this is the problem though. My "endorsement" doesn't matter much, and it shouldn't matter to you. I'm a random person on the internet, I hope my endorsement wouldn't sway your opinion. (Facts backed by sources and corroboration is what should should sway opinion, not pop stars and billionaires)
Weird world where people respect the opinions of people they respect in general.
Wait, that's not weird at all.
Go somewhere else 🤷
Oh, you respect swift? She has earned your respect? Lol. This million pop star, who you haven't ever met, has earned your respect enough to convince you to vote a certain way?
You don't hear how utterly ridiculous that sounds? Please tell me you understand how ridiculous that sounds...
I'm really trying here... I feel it's a losing battle. I just want yall to use common sense...
Why would I care about your initial criticism but not your proposed course of action? I'm down to collaborate, give me a source.
Month old account that has spent its entire time on Lemmy being a contrarian asshole. Nothing of value to read here, folks.
Lol. Oh, I have opposing opinions, so I am a contrarian asshole? So you would like to silence any contrary opinions and just live in a liberal echo chamber?
I'm not surprised... it's what people do here. Your views are so fragile that you can't handle an opposing view.
I'm doing yall a favor here, I'm trying to expose yall to the other side of the arguments. I want you to understand the scope of things. Don't hate on me brother.
Yes, like a monkey throwing shit exposes the surrounding victims to e coli, you are exposing us to your views. Thank you brother
Lol. Good one.
I have opposing opinions
Please do share some opposing opinions rather than just shitting on someone else daring to add their voice to the great chorus of democracy.
I'm sure everyone will have a lot of time to indulge your certainly well-informed and nuanced political opinions.
"The great chorus of democracy"....
Sorry if it just seems like im shitting on opinions, but like this, it's just bad... this "great chorus of democracy" is called an echo chamber. It is a chorus. Everyone is reaffirming each other's opinions with no one able to say contrary without ridicule and insults. No one with opposing views wants to be here because of this. Thus, it turns into an echo chamber.
I don't think most here get out into the real world much because people here think the opinions shared here are shared by everybody... but no, the reinforced opinions here are not litmus test of reality.
I'm sure everyone will have a lot of time to indulge your certainly well-informed and nuanced political opinions.
I'm not inclined to take you up on that offer as it seems very disingenuous. I'm not going to express my political opinions so you and your crew can team up and harass me. I'll give you this, our options for POTUS are pitiful. It nearly makes me sick, considering either as our next president. Having said that, Harris is a weak puppet. Biden was senile puppet. Between the 2 options, it sucks but I think Trump is the better choice. He isn't going to end democracy or destroy America like dissenting voice claim. He'll be in office for 4 years and then be gone. Thank God. Many Conservatives have shamed and disgraced the party by turning into the trump party.
Having said that, everything is going to be fine. With either candidate, there will be ups and down, but we're going survive. America will be fine. Every needs to chill out, we need to quit with all the division and hate, that's what they try to do, they try to divide us. It's hard not to fall into it, I'm a victim of it myself. Anyway, I didn't mean to rant. Let me just say that echo chambers are real and very bad. Like it or not, lemme is an echo chamber, reddit is an echo chamber. The dangerous part is not to understand that one is in an echo chamber. I believe most here don't realize that they are in an echo chamber. Its unhealthy... anyway.. geez. Sorry
Well played, Tay Tay, well played.
Caption: Taylor Swift, wearing a black turtleneck, holding her dinner.
Many people say she was born in Haiti. Why won’t she show her birth certificate?
I'll show her mine if she shows me hers first.
sir, close your trenchcoat, we're talking about documents here
Oh certificate, I thought you meant mark.
Yes citizen, roll up your sleeve and show me your trump nft tattoo
This tattoo's gonna gain so much value. To the moon!
lol really it was just a way for Putin to donate to trump’s campaign but here we are
Fun fact: genitals are jokingly referred to as documents in Brazil.
Haiti's gonna hate hate hate
Pretty solid response, all things considered. I hope it resonates with new voters to register and be engaged since the older folks are far too entrenched to move the needle.
The cat is like "What is going on? Put me on my bed, I have to sleep".
that cat looks actually really unbothered by what's happening
That cat is drop-dead gorgeous.
It's a Ragdoll!
Context
Yeah well played, they got a bunch of millions for promoting politics and they are going to chill in their private jet and buy groceries with it. Have fun today working to death to afford rent and cheap food.
Cool whataboutism
That's the reality
I cannot imagine being this mad about a win over Trump.
A post on the frontpage of lemmy with so many upvotes about a scummy pop celebrity endorsing the red and blue party is a lose for humanity and a win for any billionare or politician.
Not sure I've heard Swift described as "scummy" before.
And if you're so against billionaires and politicians, why are you for the billionaire politician from the party who wants to cut taxes for billionaires, and not the candidate from a working class background who wants to increase taxes for billionaires?
They'll say they aren't for him, of course. But consequentially, they are.
If you vote and support people with blood on their hands you are directly evil. If you push a two side narrative when it clearly not you are misleading people
Scummy is a kind word for someone who fly his private jet to buy groceries. We are talking about one of the biggest polluting individual on the planet.
I'm neither for a billionare or for a genocide supporter. If you believe calling these out is showing them support you are probably a victim of their propaganda.
I don't believe Swift buys her own groceries, or that anyone on her staff takes a jet to the grocery store. That's just dumb.
I think it's ridiculous that we have a system where someone can make billions singing songs while people providing essential functions have troubles making ends meet, but I haven't heard any credible evidence that Swift exploits her staff.
You just described how the exploitation works these days. By definition no billionare is kind: if you and me or the average person would turn into a billionare we would give so much money away that we wouldn't be billionare anymore. A billion is more than 999 millions, imagine wanting more than that. Don't expect anyone who seek that much wealth to be kind to others, their charity is the equivalent of the average person tipping 10 cents, probably less if you do the math.
Plane flights are tracked and public even for private jets, you can search for her rides. A quick search show they once did a minute flight to avoid a traffic jam...
Yet it's a loss for the billionaire-politician Trump... which is all that matters.
Wow, Trump is having a really bad day.
It’s delightful.
They own a skyscraper in new york and have enough wealth to afford all sort of commodities. The average person is going to have a much worst day and it's not delightful.
I dunno if Trump can enjoy his skyscraper from prison. With a windowed cell, maybe.
Ah yes the criminal who is soon to be president is going to jail any day now. Just you wait, any day.
Not with that attitude. "Is soon to be"?
Politicians don't go to jail
Chicago?
Many downvotes but no example.
Fine. Reference basically every Illinois governor since, well, ever (hyperbole).
Maybe you meant that no Republican politicians go to jail, only Democrats hold each other accountable? Not sure.
It's not their fault you ignore history. The burden of evidence is not theirs, but yours 👌
You made a few factual errors there, I took the liberty of fixing it
Could you be more triggered?
And he had all that before he got all this bad news about his only chance to avoid accountability.
And its Joever.
Was honestly never any doubt Taylor would support Kamala. She is pretty publicly Liberal with a capital L and tends to care about things like autonomy for women and all those crazy things. She probably would have stayed quiet for ticket sales but then the trump campaign deep faked her and...
Said it before and I'll say it again. If you have to fuck with a frothing at the mouth fandom? Go after k-pop before you go after T-swizzle.
And in case anyone isn't aware and is taking advice from this post, don't fuck with K-pop. They'll fuck you up.
Oh. K-pop stans will fuck your shit up and destroy any online infrastructure you have.
Swifties will fuck your shit up, burn down your home with you inside it, and piss on the ashes. All while their parents (and randos who got Swifty pilled by stuff like The Fall Guy) are grooving in the street and waving off hte cops.
She might have done something more subtle like she did with Joe Biden cookies 4 years ago. I agree, in this case she had no choice but to share her opinion loud and clear.
Shit I wouldn’t go after K pop or the Beehive either.
8 believe they call themselves the "Beyhive"
Idk, the recent pic of her chummy day/night out with Brittany Mahomes planted quite a bit of doubt for me. There was a lot of speculation after those pictures released that she'd come out for Kamala, to get ahead of any backlash.
Just being nice to the wife of her boyfriend's buddy, not asking him to turn away from his friends, even if they're fools. As my daughter said, those football guys get hit in the head a lot...
I personally think the company you choose to keep says a lot about you. There's being polite with your partner's friends and then there's being all over someone like a bestie. It's amazing how well her PR machine works that she gets white knighted so much, even on Lemmy. May I remind everyone that she is a billionaire and didn't get to be one accidentally. She's just as bad as the rest of them, she just pays people to make her seem not as threatening, and it's clearly working based on all the free defense she gets on the internet.
She's not your friend. Arguably, she's Brittany Mahome's friend.
Yes. The company she keeps is her boyfriend. Her boyfriend who is a tight end (hee hee) on the same team that Mahomes is a quarterback on. That means he only "looks good" if Mahomes throws to him.
Welcome to being an adult. Yes, there are thresholds where you say "Fuck off, I don't care". But when it can potentially ruin your partner's career to not smile and nod? You act like an adult and smile and nod. And then you go off on them during the car ride home (well... plane ride for T-Swizzle).
Nobody (sane) is going to argue that Taylor is a secret leftist or anything. But she has consistently shown that she cares about LGBTQ+ rights and Womens' Rights (whether as part of her brand or as herself, it doesn't matter) and quietly endorsed Biden. The only question was whether she would stay silent, quietly endorse Kamala, or release a press release. She chose the press release.
But hey, feel free to continue making deranged purity tests that just alienate everyone else. That totally leads to electoral wins and change.
It's not deranged. There are degrees and nuances to all human relationships and situations but this was and is a pretty public one. These are hard choices for anyone but they do still matter. I don't think smiling and nodding is acting like an adult, I think it's cowardly. There is no maturity in avoiding things.
They waited for the contract
She wouldn't bother with the pennies they could afford to pay her.
Billionares are money addicts with a mental disorder, they would still lower themself even for 50 dollars. Being endorsed by the establishment is how you become a pop star and how your albums magically top more skilled artists than you.
She's a billionaire you dolt.
Couldn't give two shits about all these Pop Star positions. I do delight in this specific one because Trump's campaign fucked with her, and drew a line in the sand with regard to Generative AI bullshit in a campaign.
They deserve all the negative press that comes from this, and much more. I don't care for Taylor Swift, but I like this move.
It's the Hive Mind Stans phenomenon that fascinates me, meme-activated collective action that is a very modern social body.
Some of the stuff BTS ARMY got up to was fantastic and a bit scary. Also large numbers. Very large.
So the Swifties haven't been weaponized yet. But they could be, soon. Having deepfake A.I. impersonation of fans made by fascist followers of a reality TV star be the thing that raises their state of collective power to Ready is just... well, I am living in a Gibson novel.
Look, I am not a billionaire loving guy anymore than some of you are.
But has anyone here considered that Musk has made an impact on the views of young white men (whom also happen to be Republican and Conservative or Proud Boys?
Does it bother us that these men follow a billionaire who doesn't give two shits about them? Yes.
Do I care that Taylor Swift is the opposite of that and encourages young women and men, be it black, gay, trans, etc to be opposite end of that spectrum. Fuck yes, we shouldn't base our views off the rich but has it ever occurred to anyone here that it is using those billionairs to represent and have them be vocal with the power they hold with our views instead?
I will absolutely take Taylor Swift speaking up and saying what she believes in and her giving that voice to 100000+ people whose only voice is heard in a vote if her speaking up also encourages people to say fuck Trump and and Musk and every fucking dumb ass on this post that thinks Taylor speaking out is a bad thing by comparison to it somehow being worse then what they already do with Musk.
Fuckem, fuck billionaires, but God damn keep fucking roasting them TSwiftie.
If I had a platform that millions of people listened to (which I don't), and strongly held beliefs about how the country could be made better for everyone (which I do), why wouldn't I use my platform to share those beliefs? How could I not?
No one MUST obey what either of them says, just like no one would be compelled to obey me in my hypothetical. But I don't really have a problem with any person using whatever platform they've found themselves with to express their own beliefs and desires. I don't think people lose the right to free expression just because they are rich and/or famous and/or powerful.
Edit: And if you piss a lot of people off and lose all your advertisers because your opinions are repugnant and awful - well hey, that's the choice you made.
Ironically, Taylor Swift was, up to this point, trying very hard NOT to use her platform. Just read her post. She's BEGGING the reader not to blindly follow her in voting, and do their own research and make their own choice. She'd said she'd wait until after her tour to endorse a candidate (which would have been after the election 🤣 ), but she says in her post that the AI DeepFake Endorsement she 'made' of Trump compelled her to give up her secret ballot and outright state she's voting for Harris.
Great point and apologies for glossing over that. I guess my reply just blurred into my general opinion about people dismissing or being grumpy about "celebrity" endorsements or political statements.
I hear ya. Yeah, I do agree with 'you shouldn't make a political opinion based on what a celebrity does,' but the reality is that people might waiver until they hear someone they like and trust (like a celebrity) makes a decision. Sad fact of life in this popularity contest we call a political system. ;)
I think it's perfectly valid to say "the system that gave me this platform is unfair and I shouldn't have benefited from it to the degree that I have, but I have the platform now so I'm going to use it for good."
I'm not down with billionaires either, but at least she's using her fame and money towards some good things.
It's one of the very few ethical ways to become a billionaire I think. If you sell an album or book for $10, and you're a global sensation, it's reasonable you'll get 100 million people buying it. It just falls on you then to use that money for his good reasons and adequately compensate people who support you. And Swift has generally been really good about that.
Yes, agreed. I do think overall that being a billionaire necessitates someone else (lots of someone elses) getting the shaft. But there are degrees of... billionairism, and she is on the right side of that, albeit still a billionaire.
I think overall that is very much so the case. This is the exception, not the norm.
It's almost like people have attributes other than their net worth.
If your political opinion is swayed by either a pop star or a billionaire, you're kinda a dumb ass. Full stop.
Good thing dumbasses can't vote...
I think you forgot the /s.
You'd be surprised.
.... what? Are you serious? 80% of voters are dumb asses...
Nvm... I struggle without "/s"
It was sarcasm.
Oh.. shwoosh. My bad sry.
Poe's Law
That's just how people work. Belief is social. We all value input from people we see as members of our in-group more than outsiders.
First, thank you for your comment without personal attacks, I'm getting torn up over here, but its me that is getting reported and comments removed for "incivility."
Anyway, what you say is true, but I believe we need to be discerning with respect to our political influences and sources. I don't think it's necessarily wrong to consider the opinions of others (pop star or not), but it should not have the weight to sway our voting one way or the other
If only people were more logical and calm, like men! /s
Your political movement is impotent if it can't seduce. Here's an underrated short tube essay on the political power of bimbos: https://youtu.be/FeRIE6JDhCQ
I love the focus on the 'childless cat lady' line.
I think that line epitomises the pointless spite that characterises MAGAism. The constant bullying and insults are entirely unnecessary to their agenda but they just can't stop themselves, and if we end up post-November with them wondering how things might have gone had they not insulted tons of voters this way then I'll find that delicious.
I suppose the counterpoint is that the insults and bullying might well be necessary, that their 'othering' and painting opponents as lesser, more ridiculous, less human enemies is a core part of how such populist fascist movements gain traction. "The cruelty is the point," as some say.
It's totally the point. The problem is they are running out of "outsider" groups they can demonize effectively so they have turned towards their own potential voters (mainly women).
As much as they want to turn transgender people into the new jews, most people just don't have that much of a problem with them.
IMHO it's harder to demonize a group that might include your son or daughter. Their racism persists because there are no white people who discover that they've actually been black their whole lives.
Although, I bet if those racist assholes took DNA tests many of them would find they did have some African-American blood, especially if they were from the South.
The constant bullying and insults are the very core of fascist strategy.
So of course Musk immediately threatens to “give her a child”. Like a normal not weird person.
Her statement was impeccable. She mentioned the AI generated fake image which appeared three weeks ago. This is the response that had to be made by her. She signed it Childless Cat Lady. Perfect.
Instead of letting Trump pick the time, she picked the time that hurt him the most.
I'd bet my left testicle all these millionaire and billionaire celebrities are actually voting Republican.. they're just too afraid of the backlash to admit it... lol.
Now the Biden administration needs to follow through and declare election day a federal holiday.
Isn’t that power assigned to Congress?
Average Americans and thinking the President is all-powerful, name a more iconic duo.
Average americans and thinking that a national holiday means anything. I've worked the majority of the holidays for the past 10 years. They don't even count for overtime unless the policies (sort of contract) of the employer state they do.
Yes, it happens, but the majority of American workers still had Labor Day off this year.
It would have a measurable impact on voter turnout.
The people who can get holidays off are generally the people who have the means to vote otherwise.
Until the last few years, the only time I had holidays off were if I could get someone to switch with me, meaning at least someone was working that day.
Labor day didn't mean shit to me working at fast food, and retail has sales instead of closing.
Walmart ain't closed on labor day and neither is McDonald's.
That's the first and second largest employers in the world, not respecting the holiday literally made for their employees.
Yeah, I sorta think people who have to work on Labor Day might eclipse people with office jobs.
True, however worst thing they could do is impeach him and make Kamala President.
If Taylor Swift spearheads voter registration drives in swing states and Pennsylvania specifically, the race could be over.
I don't imagine most of her fans are of voting age, but the exposure certainly can't hurt.
I mean...Trump has a 60-something year old retired wrestler, and a 50-something trashrock star for his celebrity endorsements.
One seems more significant than the other, especially for women.
Fun fact: Swift's first album is old enough to vote.
Why would you make me face my mortality in this way
I'm the same age as Taylor and I see at least one of my peers attending her concerts every week on social media. Her reach right now is insane.
Sure, I get that. I'd just like the obvious sane choice to be made more than a celebrity endorsement. Feels pretty shitty that we're at this point.
Our last president was a celebrity, and that's the second actor we've had as president alone. What point are you referring to?
Taylor is 34 and has been popular for over a decade. There are young fans, but she has millions of fans of voting age
All of my coworkers are Swifties who attend her concerts and constantly play her music. Most of them are in their 30s and 40s. Her audience isn't as young as you'd think, she's been making music for decades now.
Perfect. Now she'll do a voter registration drive.
Also if you've been sitting on a donation for Harris between now and the next 24 hours will give Harris another big news cycle bump.
Puttin your money where your Kamouth is
But I saw PICTURES that she SUPPORTED Trump! Her LITERALLY SAYING SHE ENDORSES KAMALA is Fake News! Trump would NEVER lie to me!
-Republicans who do their Own Research!
Some folks here really seem to think that her fans don't have any political opinions without her. This is actually as much about her politically engaged fan base wanting her to use her platform for good, than it is about swaying people who might be very young or unsure about voting.
Lots of swifties are millenials who lean left and liberal and some have criticized her in the past for not speaking up or for leaving her views ambiguous in a way that left room for the right to coopt her image. This is not about silly pop fans needing to be told what to think. People aren't ignorant. It's exactly because she's powerful and very wealthy, that it's important for her to use her power to be very clear about where she stands. Especially in light of the ai thing and the Brittany Mahomes weirdness.
obviously a lot of them are engaged, but the US is famously bad at actually voting, so this might make a significant difference in who votes.
I really hope that it does.
Good news!
https://x.com/ElenaMMoore/status/1833936170301960507
damn holy shit, big if true.
She did it in 2023 and I'm not one for bets. :) https://www.npr.org/2023/09/22/1201183160/taylor-swift-instagram-voter-registration
Heck yeahh
ideally it should, we saw something similar after kamala harris took over biden.
This seems important to her, especially considering her timing – she mentioned that the right has been circulating deep fakes of her falsely claiming she endorsed trump.
Can't wait for Trump's reaction. I guess the pictures of support for him were fake, huh?
No shit.
As fake as his blonde spray over his 78 year old gray hair
Very doubtful that that's even his real hair at this point.
Dear Trump
We, are never ever ever, getting back together.
Sincerely, The White House
Been waiting for this since Trump decided to attack her and her fanbase, and misuse her image without her permission.
Go on, you MAGA idiots, start shouting at Taylor Swift. I dare you.
Why on earth would he poke that bear?
Taylor Swift absolutely can drive voter registrations at levels that would easily supersede the 10-20k that swing states will be decided by, just based on her word. And her fanbase spreads across multiple demographics.
I'd be shocked if her announcement alone doesn't drive 100k registrations nationwide in the next 48 hours.
Let flip some red states swifties
It’s gonna be brutal when she’s one-upped by er … Kid Rock.
No! Wait, Ted Nugent.
Yeah, suck it Swifters.
Instead of posting a screenshot and a link, they posted a broken Instagram embed instead. Come on.
Hey it's a small indie publication cut them some slack.
Nail, here is the coffin.
Friendly reminder - don't stop and go vote.
"Kamala, obviously."
It’s over now right?
Nope. Go vote.
Agreed! And go register and plan your vote. Make a plan now. Especially in some states where there's different degrees of voter suppression, you need to take extra steps to make sure you get your vote counted. There's an army of MAGAts and right wing lawyers trying to stop certain voters, kick them off the voter rolls, or make up rules to keep you from voting. Don't let them stop you.
I'm voting BLUE! Won't you?
You relay on people who listen to popstars to vote instead of just making tiktoks about how they vote?
Screw the debate. The real news!
/s
Bwah hah hah hah hah!!
my queen
So I'm going to go out on a limb and say this debate went better for Dems. Bold, I know.
Seriously, though. Wow. At least I'll be able to sleep tonight.
Praise Tay
"Billionaire endorses politician" 🙄
lol
haha
♠️
🂡
This is not "breaking news" under any circumstances.
Glad she's supporting kamala and using her influence, but that being said the celebrity worship nonsense is silly. Not breaking news.
Well, we are talking about a pop star with absolutely staggering amount of influence and reach, specifically with a young demographic. If she were able to motivate her fan-base to vote, that would be a huge deal.
Edit: Holy shit.
I mean she is probably the most popular pop star in the world, so I think it is breaking news if it helps the disenfranchised youth vote for Kamala over Trump.
Unfortunately celebrity worship is influence, and influence is the key in elections. No influence, no vote. It is power. And the amount of influential power Taylor swift has is absolutely staggering. I wouldn't be surprised if her endorsing kamala brings in tens if not hundreds of thousands of voters to register.
I'm skeptical that the kinds of people that would be swayed to vote for Kamala solely due to Taylor Swifts endorsement, are the kinds of people who see breaking news on NBC.
It's not breaking news, which was my OP LOL. She could probably have the intended effect on tik tok and Twitter.
But still, I don't really care, if it gets more votes against trump I'm all for it.
It ain't breaking news though LOL. Putin launching a nuke is breaking news.
Yeah, the fact that I keep seeing this as breaking, or important, news makes me want to break into a broadcast center and pull a "The Network".
::: spoiler NBC News - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report) Information for NBC News:
::: spoiler Search topics on Ground.News https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/taylor-swift-endorses-kamala-harris-rcna170547 ::: Media Bias Fact Check | bot support
Cult of personality vs cult of personality.
Yep that's how humans work
Well of course she did... it's easy being a Democrat celebrity....
Agreed. It sure is easy to publicly not be a cunt.
Have a downvote with that salty wine
lol you say that as if Trump didn’t get away with everything forever
"Breaking News" 🤦♂️ Ugggghhhh.
*I guess nobody else is tired of celebrities holding the US political system hostage.
I mean.. one of the most influential people on the planet just endorsed a candidate for President. That is pretty breaking news.
More importantly, she was waiting for the best time to do it. I would hate to be the guy who has to tell Trump.
He’s currently standing awkwardly in the spin room hoping that people will talk to him.
Who would want to talk to a felon and adjudicated rapist? Gross!
I’m sure some reporters talked to him. There are some pretty amusing clips of him just sorta standing around awkwardly.
There is a non-zero chance that some reporter told him about the Taylor Swift endorsement. I truly hope he responded with the grace and elegance he had on display all night 😂
Trump’s left brain cell: “Woman no agree with me so she ugly!”
Trump’s right brain cell: “But woman blonde like Ivanka! I want to sex her!”
bzzrtPOP
[system malfunction]
(Second brain cell added for artistic license)
while I personally don't like when people use clout for things like this, some people don't realize how big politically she can be. She outright had governments fighting for show exclusivity just so she would choose their country for people to travel to. Her influences has whole damn governments fighting each other.
I’ll take it!!!
There's always something to complain about
It actually is though. When they use the same header two days from now....
Why do we care what a rich entertainer thinks?
Maybe we don't, but she's got a huge fanbase and they probably do.
Just let her and ja rule decide who's the next president. Why the extra steps?
Why do they assign weight to her perspective?
Because they admire her
Is it wise that they assign her perspective value because they admire her ability to sing and dance?
it's not, but they do anyway
This story has nearly 600 upvotes, so far. Does that imply that we care about winning more than we care about the the wisdom and agency of others?
yes
Is that moral and ethical?
Is derping to get Trump elected moral or ethical?
Is perpetuating false dichotomy?
It's not a false dichotomy at all. The choice in this national election, like basically all national elections preceding it, is between the two major party candidates.
Since that's the reality, any actions you're taking regarding the election and its discussion can be correctly regarded as support for one candidate or the other.
So I ask you again, is derping to help get Trump elected moral or ethical?
I care about one thing above everything else -- Keeping Donald Trump away from the levers of power. And I have good reasons for this:
And that's just the short list.
I support Biden and his successor Harris on the merits, too. The Chips Act is a great win for really getting microchips made in the US. Biden's done a damn good job on investing in US infrastructure, which is an important thing to me. His attempts to deal with Student Loans are a big part of why I have stopped taking night classes and reentered repayment. And he's doing a damn fine job overall. But again. My goal above all other goals is keeping Trump away from the White House.
My goal is to ensure my Black bisexual goth pagan wife doesn't get ground under the bootheels of Trumpian Authoritarianism. One of the ways I do this is by debunking posts like this. I don't care about winning. I care about Trump losing. And I don't see wisdom here. I see...well, Rule 3 so I can't say what I exactly see here, but it's not wisdom or any of its synonyms. I see a willing dismissal of truth here, a poster arguing to give the election to Trump because the Democratic candidate isn't EXACTLY what they demanded. And agency? Pal, nobody's holding a gun to your head and saying you MUST vote Harris. Do any of the options I mentioned above, or go ahead and vote Trump, or any other silly 'protest' vote you want. We're just here saying that you're gonna get Trump for all of us and screw over a whole bunch of people you claim to support.
I'm also a triple minority. I'm not afraid of Trump. I've suffered his kind my whole life.
Perhaps the way to progress is to put the platform you want on every Presidential ballot in 2028. You know how that's done, right?
This poster took one bullet point out of four to nitpick on, while ignoring everything else I posted. I wonder WHY, and you should to, dear reader.
Again. My sole goal is to get Trump away from office, and yes, if I have to work with Progressives, Moderates, Mainstream Democrats, Conservative Dems, and even moderate Republicans, I think we make that work. Actual Progressives feel that we've made real progress on a variety of issues, including Student Loans, Green Energy, and minority rights that will be reversed and reversed hard by a Trump admin. Rather than let this poster spew this nonsense unchallenged, I am here articulating where it is wrong and why you shouldn't listen to it. Please keep this in mind as you read our exchanges, dear reader, and remember: There ARE factions out there trying to get you to throw your vote behind a Third Party or stay home, for the express goal of allowing Trump to steal the election and tear down everything you love. Remember that as you read posts that tell you vote Third Party or just stay home.
This poster assumed bad faith maliciousness instead of asking questions. They can't tell friend from foe. But, they've certainly lots of words to express the status quo reasoning prevalent among you.
🤣
They admire more than that. But, like, there’s an implication in the fact that you are posting on Lemmy that you believe people should assign a nonzero value to your perspective; why is that? I would assume that you make your arguments and believe they have value based on their own merit, regardless of the fact we have no idea who you are. Well, Taylor Swift made a post where she stated her position and gave arguments too. Is there any reason her perspective should not have any value but yours and mine should?
Furthermore, if someone does know who she is and wants to also take into account that they admire her music and songwriting, her personality, her perspective, and/or her various life accomplishments, why shouldn’t they? We’re talking about politics here, where everyone is making it up as they go along. She’s not trying to use her celebrity status to get a paper published in a physics journal or something.
I've done little more than ask questions about why someone should respect her political perspective because she's rich singer and dancer.
Yes, I noticed you were asking that question, hence my reply which took your question into account. If you get a chance, you could try doing the same.
There's so much bullshit here that I acted as if you also posted bullshit. I apologize. I've read your post in full and more carefully.
I can't seem to find her post in full, only snippets of her conclusion. Mass media sucks that way. Do you happen to know where I can find her post, unedited and without making an account?
So you replied to my post without reading, still didn’t address the questions I asked after acknowledging this, and are now shamelessly saying you also never even read Taylor Swift’s post in the first place before making all your comments. And yet your thesis is that there’s no reason to place any value on what she says?
She provides nearly no reasoning for her perspective.
She's rich, a marketed character. She shouldn't be trusted by default.
This ridiculous comparison, and being outright incorrect in it, is why your questions weren't answered. I've rectified that.
No reason? I didn't say that. I said the implied reasons to value her perspective aren't meritable.
Now that I've read her post I find I was entirely correct. She's chosen what's safe, politic, and popular: conclusions without reasoning. She could've risked what her conscience should've told her was correct. But, she predictably didn't.
So, let's break down her post, because I'm sure you didn't read it.
Literally, her first paragraph is an appeal to each and every American to research the issues and the candidates and come to their own conclusions. Nowhere does she opt to tell you how to vote. In fact, she says repeatedly to do your own research and make your own choice.
She explained the problems with DeepFakes and AI bullshit, and used that as a justification for revealing what is normally a secret ballot. She didn't want to endorse anyone. In fact, it was stated she'd keep her mouth shut about her politics to protect her fans until her current tour was done (elsewhere, not in this thread) which meant she was initially planning on not revealing her choice at all, which most voters actually do, since our ballots are secret and all. But when Trump claimed her (fake) endorsement, she had to stop and set the record straight, despite not wanting to bring the backlash on her fans.
She doesn't go deeper into this, admittedly and maybe even unfortunately, just saying she believes Harris/Walz is the better choice to run the country for the next 4 years. She basically just lays out what motivated her to pick the team she did, and why she didn't pick the other team (Team Chaos). But there's a reason for this!
Nowhere in any of this does she tell you who to vote for. She doesn't want to. She just asks you to do your research, both on the candidates and issues, AND on how to properly cast your vote this election. I'm sure if you popped up on her thread and said you were going to vote for whatever candidate, she'd say 'good on you, make sure you are making the right choice, and check these links to verify you can actually vote!' She seems to be the kind of person that lets you make your own decisions.
Will Swifties see her voting for Harris as a justification for voting for Harris? Probably. I hope she continues emphasising that people should make up their own minds based on their own research, while advocating for harm reduction and de-chaosing. That seems to be in line with how she functions. And you should never base what your vote is going to be on how someone else votes. I would have liked to have seen a more detailed breakdown of her decision and a link to the sources she made her decisions off of, but let's get real. MANY people don't have an academic background and know how to cite their sources, so...yeah. I won't expect it from Taylor Swift.
In conclusion, she's not giving 'reasoning for her perspective' because she's not telling you who to vote for. She's saying who she's voting for because AI put words in her mouth that the major candidate most opposed to her positions used to claim her endorsement. That's all.
OP posted a screenshot here:
https://lemmy.world/comment/12292155
Thank you.
She states her conclusions with nearly non-existent reasoning. As it sits it deserves very little respect.
She's at least as qualified as one of the candidates to have a perspective, and has an edge because she hasn't bankrupted any casinos, sabotaged a nation's pandemic response, or raped any kids that I know about. Not that qualification is necessary to have or state a perspective.
I strongly question the judgement of anyone who questions the judgement of someone advising voting against Trump.
Your measure of merit is "relative to shit".
You don't care for facts and reason, only agreement.
That's not a perspective that deserves respect.
You have yet to demonstrate any facts or reason.
"Don't vote for the shit candidate" otoh is reasonable.
I agree. That's why I won't vote for Trump, Harris, or anyone else that funds their campaigns with corporate money.
You could just as well ask why people assign weight to Trump's perspective, but instead you're asking about Taylor Swift.
I'd rather they not vote at all if they're just basing their choice on what some billionaire entertainer says.
It's about sending a message, setting a signal. People should think for themselves, I agree, but come on. Do you ignore all other forms of influence people experience or what weird world do you live in?
The one where shitloads of people let celebrities influence how they think.
I hate to break it to you, but Trump himself was a celebrity turned president. So we've no choice but to live in a world where celebrity seems to be important as some kind of qualification. His other qualification was "businessman" aka used-car-salesman.
Yes, my opinion on that is consistent with my previously stated opinion that people should not be listening to celebrities in regards to politics. The same goes for Reagan. Neither of those fuckers should have ever been taken into account but because morons just believe whatever the TV tells them too here we are. Just because the celebrity in question happens to be supporting our side this time doesn't make it a good thing.
You don't have to if you don't want.
But whether you like it or no rich entertainers like Taylor Swift get lots of media and views. Which parleys into influence and bringing attention to a candidate or an idea.
This is the reason why anyone that wants to grow a brand and/or an idea will try to get a celebrity to endorse it.
Edit: This doesn't mean they know more than the average joe it's all about marketing
Why do others assign value to her perspective? Is she especially qualified to decide whom others should vote for?
Probably because they feel aligned with her values and see her success as an indicator that she is smart. Therefore, she is someone worth emulating.
Does the rich singer and dancer represent her values honestly, is it marketing, or is there some of both? Is it wise to assign her perspective value?
If people used logic, Trump would never have made into politics to begin with.
If the majority was logical then we'd have been revolting for the repeal of Glass-Steagall and the passing of the Interstate Branching and Banking Efficiency Act.
I think it's far more important to encourage wisdom than pretend to play whack-a-mole with bank-owned politicians.
What do you think?
How do you propose we go about changing this? How do we effectively encourage it?
I think that purely logical thought is impossible, and believing we are a logical person can lead us to assume all our opinions are logical, inherently. Which leads to using after the fact logic to justify initial gut reactions. Is that what you mean by wisdom? The ability to understand your own emotional reaction and decide if it's based on anything useful? Or is it something else?
I think, at this point in time, celebrity culture is important to be aware of. Trump was a reality tv star, after all. I think a better world could be made if society didn't care about celebrities, but that is not where we live, and observing reality seems an important step to understanding it. And understanding it can help us determine if there is a way to alter this. If that's the goal. Is that the purpose to your questions?
Now that the main glut of whatever has passed, I want to express that your post above, particularly your question, made my day. It's perhaps the best question I've been asked engaging with .world. Thank you.
You're witnessing one very small act of praxis right now. But, my best results are always IRL, personal, in a recurring one-on-one or small group discussion. And, I'm not to lead that discussion, instead following where the others lead, the only boundary logical fallacy.
A poor summary would be "Agency at all costs." But, a good answer to your question would require a very lengthy response. My greatest influence in means is Pedagogy of the Oppressed by Paulo Freire (1968). But, there's so many good tools, from the New Testament to the emotional delivery of Malcolm X. Being able to adapt is critical. Perhaps most important is to risk making it personal.
I'm going to take a stab at interpreting Crashhumbc's post.
Politics is a popularity contest. You're imploring Swift to write a fully cited research paper with academic rigor to justify her vote. Most people just go into the ballot box and pick the name that appeals the most to them. You are unrealistic in your evaluation of people, and hold major influencers (aka Celebrities) to standards that nobody else will.
Taylor Swift is a pretty blonde girl with a hot body, and a rocking singing voice and dancing skill to make the most of that hot body. Her original plan was to withhold her voting choice until after the election so she could focus on her current tour and not get right-wing agitators harming her or her fans. But then somebody made a DeepFake of her endorsing Trump, and she had no choice.
She explicitly does not want to tell her fans how to vote. She starts with that, reiterates it throughout her screed, and ends with it. But she makes it clear she's NOT endorsing Trump, but instead, voting against him.
Will her fans change their votes based on what she's said she's going to do? Yes. Unfortunately. They'll not read the three+ times she says "vote for who you think the best choice is, not who I think the best choice is", and only see her "I am voting Harris/Walz." You can't expect her to be responsible for her fans' poor choice in decision making, though. She's not telling you how to vote, and she doesn't want you to vote with her. That's a huge part of why she said she'd not release her voting choice 'until after her tour' (which ends after the election). Had the Deepfakers not made a video of her endorsing Trump, we'd still probably be guessing at who she supports.
Swift quote from the article. She is telling people to make their own decisions, whilst announcing her own choice and making no claims about qualifications. What is wrong with this?
Her reasoning isn't communicated in adequate nuance to earn respect for her perspective. She's chosen what's safe, politic, and popular rather than risk what her conscience should tell her is right.
Oh geez, I'm guessing you are the one who knows what's right and speaks the true wisdom of all our consciences.. Let us all bow down in respect to Sir Derpy of the correct nuance
My standards are high relative status quo and average relative very basic moral and ethical analysis. I'll encourage you to choose to also set a higher standard. As a human you deserve better.
She doesn't decide who they vote for.
Why does anyone care what a singer and dancer thinks about political representation?
You're asking more questions in this thread than anyone. I'd be curious why you care so much about who this celebrity endorses. I'm guessing it has more to do with who they endorse than their lack of political background.
That's because it's convenient and comfortable.
I don't care what people choose. I only care about the comprehensiveness and quality of their facts and reason.
Isn't it meritable to ask questions?
not when your questions amount to "why would people listen to her?!?!" when you know full well why - its the same reason Trump already used AI Taylor Swift to endorse himself.
You write like a freshman who has been enjoying debate club starting back up.
If you ultimately didn't care who they choose, and instead just their line of thinking surely you wouldn't be so riled up by something you knew was coming? The Richest man in the world bought a social media platform that now has a main purpose of getting Trump elected.
Your tired "just asking questions act" would be better suited for Facebook in like 2015
I must meet my audience where the are.
She's not allowed to or qualified to have an opinion according to you?
My point is that not everyone's opinion deserves respect.
For example, you've resorted to strawman instead of asking a question. It'll be quite difficult for me to respect anything else you've to say on the topic.
Why on Earth would you say that, unless you think your opinion is important and valid and worthy of being heard? Yet you out here arguing other people's opinions aren't. Wow, great mind. Cry about strawmen a bit more.
I say it because it's the truth of your actions. It's an error you're now continuing to make.
That won't work out well for you, not even online. Best of luck.
That's some cringy shit.
She stated in her post a major motivation for her was the fake AI pictures Trump and Co circulated a few weeks ago, so they definitely care. I actually admire that she is simply stating she plans to vote for Harris, rather than outright endorsing her. Swift advises people to be politically informed and to vote. I think that's a pretty good message for anyone to say.
That's definitely a part she should've left out.
Why? Again it was her motivation for the post?
Inclusion implies that if she'd not been targeted then she'd not have spoken up.
I won't doubt that there is some intention there along those lines. Maybe she wanted it to be read that way. I see it more along those lines than a full-blown endorsement.
I perceive its appeal to MLK's "white moderate".
Why do we care what you think?
Because you subscribed? If you don't care what people think here just unsubscribe and move on.
I don't recall subscribing to sirderpy's Tucker Carlson questions simulator. Where do I unsubscribe?
Because she has a ridiculous number of fans and this may spur some of them to vote that might not have otherwise.
Hopefully she reiterates it shortly before election day to stir people into action.
Is it wise to want others to choose based on propaganda instead of fact and reason?
No, but it's what we get. Reality and what is wise do not often go hand in hand.
Should we attempt to change that or upvote 600 times to propagate the nonsense?
We don't, this is propaganda
Do you even know what propaganda is?
You know, like Trump basically fabricating Swift's support though bullshit AI and forcing her hand
This post: the government giving money to pop artists to make them more famous and to do ads for them, also the government spending millions to advertise in online platforms.
There's almost 600 upvotes so far. If this is propaganda then that fact speaks for itself.
If you are a fan of this pop celebrity you are most likely a victim of propaganda and marketing.
She's an incredible singer and dancer. I've respect for her talent and hard work. If she ever decides to create content for adults and take some risks in composition then I'd probably even enjoy her music.
But, she's targeting adolescents and young adults. I agree that the majority are victims of propaganda and marketing.
This sub is propagating that nonsense. That's not good.
Sound like their are more of a salesman than an incredible artist. Do you have any videos of their best performances? So far what i've seen on youtube is far from incredible.
I'm not sure of what to recommend as I'm not a fan. I've only seen a smattering of what was popular over the years. But, I also don't think it's difficult to recognize a strong vocalist or dancer. I admit she's not Whitney or MJ, that "incredible" was exaggeration of my perspective.
I'm also curious. I'd like to see what her fans consider her best.
Yet another reason to note vote for that parrot drone of a politician. Ignorant person endorsing an ignorant person.
And when did it become important who a pop star "endorses"? Should it really help sway opinion?
Gtf outta here.
What sort of direct action do you endorse?
Probably some delusional fantasy of revolution
Lol... this is the problem though. My "endorsement" doesn't matter much, and it shouldn't matter to you. I'm a random person on the internet, I hope my endorsement wouldn't sway your opinion. (Facts backed by sources and corroboration is what should should sway opinion, not pop stars and billionaires)
Weird world where people respect the opinions of people they respect in general.
Wait, that's not weird at all.
Go somewhere else 🤷
Oh, you respect swift? She has earned your respect? Lol. This million pop star, who you haven't ever met, has earned your respect enough to convince you to vote a certain way?
You don't hear how utterly ridiculous that sounds? Please tell me you understand how ridiculous that sounds...
I'm really trying here... I feel it's a losing battle. I just want yall to use common sense...
Why would I care about your initial criticism but not your proposed course of action? I'm down to collaborate, give me a source.
Month old account that has spent its entire time on Lemmy being a contrarian asshole. Nothing of value to read here, folks.
Lol. Oh, I have opposing opinions, so I am a contrarian asshole? So you would like to silence any contrary opinions and just live in a liberal echo chamber?
I'm not surprised... it's what people do here. Your views are so fragile that you can't handle an opposing view.
I'm doing yall a favor here, I'm trying to expose yall to the other side of the arguments. I want you to understand the scope of things. Don't hate on me brother.
Yes, like a monkey throwing shit exposes the surrounding victims to e coli, you are exposing us to your views. Thank you brother
Lol. Good one.
Please do share some opposing opinions rather than just shitting on someone else daring to add their voice to the great chorus of democracy.
I'm sure everyone will have a lot of time to indulge your certainly well-informed and nuanced political opinions.
"The great chorus of democracy"....
Sorry if it just seems like im shitting on opinions, but like this, it's just bad... this "great chorus of democracy" is called an echo chamber. It is a chorus. Everyone is reaffirming each other's opinions with no one able to say contrary without ridicule and insults. No one with opposing views wants to be here because of this. Thus, it turns into an echo chamber.
I don't think most here get out into the real world much because people here think the opinions shared here are shared by everybody... but no, the reinforced opinions here are not litmus test of reality.
I'm not inclined to take you up on that offer as it seems very disingenuous. I'm not going to express my political opinions so you and your crew can team up and harass me. I'll give you this, our options for POTUS are pitiful. It nearly makes me sick, considering either as our next president. Having said that, Harris is a weak puppet. Biden was senile puppet. Between the 2 options, it sucks but I think Trump is the better choice. He isn't going to end democracy or destroy America like dissenting voice claim. He'll be in office for 4 years and then be gone. Thank God. Many Conservatives have shamed and disgraced the party by turning into the trump party.
Having said that, everything is going to be fine. With either candidate, there will be ups and down, but we're going survive. America will be fine. Every needs to chill out, we need to quit with all the division and hate, that's what they try to do, they try to divide us. It's hard not to fall into it, I'm a victim of it myself. Anyway, I didn't mean to rant. Let me just say that echo chambers are real and very bad. Like it or not, lemme is an echo chamber, reddit is an echo chamber. The dangerous part is not to understand that one is in an echo chamber. I believe most here don't realize that they are in an echo chamber. Its unhealthy... anyway.. geez. Sorry