Russia has 'right to war' with 'each and every' NATO country - Medvedev
euronews.com
“Whether you like it, or not, history is on our side. We will bury you,” he said quoting former USSR leader Nikita Khrushchev.
Russian politician Dmitry Medvedev said on Tuesday Russia could have a right to go to war with NATO.
I wonder… does medvedev have enough wits left to understand that if Russia has that right… then everyone … has that right?
They’re finding Ukraine difficult enough. Sure we’re sharing some toys (a lot of toys)… but they don’t have carriers or attack subs or missile destroyers…
Threatening nato is not a sane decision to make. We might just take them at their word.
The toys we're sharing are our older toys from the 80s and 90s even. Its not even the more deadly stuff we have...and they're fighting against a force that's getting a few weeks training on these toys and sent out into the field. If russia truly wants a 72 hour war...all it would need to do is attack NATO.
Yeah, Ukraine is excited about maybe getting some F-16s and how much that could help with the air war and meanwhile a couple of F-22s could take down a whole squadron of them.
A squadron of f-22s could take down most air forces.
An air wing of f-22s could probably beat all other air forces combined, with the possible exception of china, though damn they would need to figure out how to keep reloaded.
The USAF is the strongest air force in the world.
The second strongest is the US navy Air wing.
Think the marines are 4.
Edit: this is an old listing, and russia was #3, so I think we actually have the trifecta.
At one point I believe the Navy had more aircraft total than the AF, but they had them beat in specialization. AF does the heavy lift jobs, stealth, and up until recently, space launches and satellites. I think Navy and Marine F-18's fly more sorties though.
Yea I feel like all the charts with russia on them need to be redrawn... it's clearly noticable at this point they've been a paper military.
Potemkin military.
Is the F-22 that much more capable?
What about the F-35? Did its issues ever get resolved?
Yes. And yes. Article on the F-35.
Yes, it is.
The most successful jet fighter of the modern era is the F15 with a combat record of 104-0.
In combat against F15s, the F22 is 41-1.
72? Pretty generous. I'm pretty sure we have more HARM missiles than they do S400 SAM batteries.
It’s not the war, it’s the keeping.
In any case, we’d probably bog down around the same time China and everyone else on that side got involved. I don’t think it would be as clean or as quick. But, yeah. We could definitely screw them pretty harshly without ever landing troops
China and Russia have no military alliance, Xi is just taking advantage of the fantastic business opportunity that opened up for him for cheap Russian imports. If Chinese troops became militarily involved in Russian territory, it would probably be to acquire their claims over eastern Siberia, dating back to the Qing Dynasty. Otherwise he's just be supporting a state that competes with him for the dominant regional position.
The Tsar took that land from them, back in the day though. If you look at their current claimed territories, they never forgot. Maybe if Russia agreed to become a subject state of China, then they'd help militarily, but they're certainly not friends or allies.
Russia does have actual allies, but not many. And China isn't one of them.
So what you’re saying is we could Jalta Russia at the Urals with the Chinese and set up Cold War 2 on a really big scale?
That's what everyone wants, we get west russia, China gets parts of Siberia with resources, and with it we buy peace for another 50 years while everyone consolidates.
We don't need to occupy Russia to stop them from continuing a war that they start. We can just destroy their equipment and manufacturing locations to make them surrender.
I was just gonna say, destroy the vodka and cigarettes.
That falls under equipment!
There isn't anyone really on that side . China and NATO have differences, but China doesn't have anything to gain from helping Russia, and nthey lose a lot is NATO loses. They will sit out. Similar with India, they will stay out . Iran or a few other small counties might consider joining, but I doubt it as most are smart enough to know that is suicide.
Idk, China might see the spread of resources as a good opportunity to try an invasion of Taiwan.
Maybe, Xi seems just sane enough not to try, but who knows. China and Russia can't really win against NATO though they make things harder. India likely hates China enough to join NATO as well.
Of course we are talking nuclear armed countries so everyone loses is possible.
Putin made his move because Xi sounded like he was going to go at the same time.
Xi was closing on HK and planned to switch immediately to Taiwan, even started the domestic pivot, then his navy told him they needed at least 5 years (honestly its more like 15, they are just starting carrier flight ops on the Liaoning and their newer ones aren't shaken down yet).
Putin had made his preparations, Xi hinted he might go anyway once the west was distracted.
If daddy z hadn't stayed in kyiv history would look really bad right now.
This sounds like a job for science!
There’s also the option that it’s going to be a 30-ish minute war. 50-ish if the other side manages to get their counter value force airborne.
Or the big guns. If they start attacking the nuclear powers, things are going to get very spicy very quickly.
America is not giving Ukraine the most advanced weapons and that is stopping Russia.
Imagine if America used their pre advanced weapons.
It’s posturing. Russia wants to look tough. They’re a paper tiger.
Total posturing. A few hundred of these would end the war overnight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-158\_JASSM
These aren't even classified. Poland and Finland have them, today.
Ukraine is keeping Russia in check with cardboard launched grenades. It's pretty amazing, honestly; both how innovative Ukraine has been under duress with almost nothing, and how bad Russia has performed in this mess they've dumped themselves in.
A few too many toes over NATO lines would decapitate the Kremlin, probably before anything could be done in response.
I have been highly impressed with the Ukrainian spirit and ingenuity.
I have also been surprised at what a cluster fuck Russia has been on the battlefield. I expected them to perform better than they did. It shows how much they have declined from being a super power.
The only issue I have is Russia has nukes and Putin is dumb enough to use them.
That stealth missle I linked, there's a CHAMP payload designed for it that fries any electronics...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-electronics\_High\_Power\_Microwave\_Advanced\_Missile\_Project
Launchers, guidance systems, communications, all of it. Should be able to be handled, if any of it even works anymore.
I just don't understand why the americans can't decide their stance while sitting on these wonderful advanced weapons. Either give Ukraine enough equipment to win or tell them to get lost and give up territory in exchange for peace. One risks escalation with Russia or if things go too well collapse of russia, the other risks discrediting the rules based international order (lmao).
But the status quo with delayed/half assed aid shipments is costing thousands of Ukrainian (and Russian, but who cares lol) soldiers' lives for pretty dam questionable outcomes.
And at full scale. This is definitely typical Russian posturing, ie total bullshit that everyone knows is bullshit but they say it anyway.
He is a puppet. It's hard to think with Putins hand so far up your ass.
Good news then: If you go to war with one NATO member you get war with the rest of them absolutely free!
For 4 Easy payments of 19.95 you too can get your shit pushed in by 31 different countries, with the added bonus of having someone else raise your children.
They have the right to, but not the capability
And we've seen what third tier NATO gear did to Russia. Wait until they see the second string stuff.
not to mention russia spent the whole time complaining about NATO helping ukraine
Can’t even take on Ukraine, you want to come at every other western country? Lol
Russia is the irritating kid down the street who just broke his nerf gun so he's threatening to throw the darts at you instead and tell his mom you're not invited to his birthday party...
Maxim Katz has explained that these kinds of deranged declarations are not directed at us. They are a kind of symbolic self-humiliation of Medvedev to prove to Putin that he is still loyal. It's "look I am willing to appear so wretched and ridiculous to the foreigners, I could not possibly be a threat to you, I am not some kind of alternative that could replace you, I am such a silly man, please don't throw me out of a window".
Speculation runs that Dimi has been told by the Tsar that if he acts like the tough guy he isn't with enough bravado, he'll be allowed to sit in the big boys' chair and pretend to be president again.
Because we all know the Soviet Union and Russia are exactly the same thing and the Russian military is definitely as powerful and as capable as the Soviet Union, no doubt. Please pay no attention to the complete lack of victory in Ukraine.
When has either the Soviet Union or Russia “won” anything in the last 150 years?
Their “win” in WWII was throwing as many bodies as possible and starving their own cities to delay the Germans long enough for winter to set in.
Soviet casualties were 4.5x higher than Axis casualties in operation Barbarossa. They lost 21k aircraft to 2800 for the Germans. 20k tanks destroyed vs 2700 for the Germans. And 4.5 million casualties compared to 1 million for the Germans.
I wouldn’t call that “burying” anyone. The biggest effect it had was weakening the Germans enough for the Allies to finish the job on the Western Front and bail the Soviets out.
The Soviets lost in Afghanistan in the 80s because of the US funding the Mujahideen.
Their biggest victory in the last century was taking Crimea because nobody else stepped up to help Ukraine like we are now.
Russia has nukes. That’s it. Beyond that they’re worthless militarily.
Hey, now. If not the capabilities of the soviets, at least they're still using the same tech.
Russia doesn't need a victory, it needs a long running war. Because this war is bringing Russia shitloads of money.
Ah yes it's making Russia so much money which is why their economy is in perfect condition and the ruble is worth more than ever!
I think they're at least partially right, Russia's strategy appears to be throw as many men at the problem to keep the front line stalemate going in the hopes the Western donations eventually dry up, then throw even more men at Ukraine until they can win. An obvious pyrrhic victory to most, but when did hundreds of thousands of deaths and a decimated economy ever trump expansionism for Putin and his cronies?
Ruble worth is irrelevant, especially since they don't neeed to buy stuff from EU and US anymore. But Russian economy is in a healthy state.
What sources do you have to back that up?
IMF says Russian economy will grow by 1.5% in 2023 - https://www.imf.org/en/Countries/RUS
For comparison, their projection for UK is 0.4%, US 1.8%, and Germany should drop by 0.3%. Yeah, sorry, Russia is doing fine.
Is it a good enough source for you? Do you need more sources? I can give more.
US GDP: $76339 per capita. x1.8% = 1374.102
UK GDP $45850 per capita x 0.4% = 183.4
RUS GDP $15607 per capita x 1.5% = 234.11
RU can expect growth, but their GDP is still shit. 1.5% growth puts the UK economy at just under 3x the Russian one. I know which currency I'd trust more and where (all other things being equal, which they're not) I'd invest.
It's not about your investment. The reality is that the war doesn't have any negative impact on Russia at the moment. And if the oil war will continue to progress the way it goes right now, the Russian economy will only get better.
We need to think about other measures if we want to help Ukraine, because sanctions don't do shit.
I disagree with your assessments - Russia is experiencing negative impact on a national level (they just grew NATO!) and on the personal level. Sanctions could be working better but are still effective, nonviolent methods to effect change. Add other measures to them, sure, but don't take them away as some sanctions (including older legislation like the Magnitsky act) target the exact people being dicks.
That's not my assessment. Russia is doing ok, that's just a fact.
1.5% of zero is still zero. It's like you practice being this stupid.
Wishful thinking. Well, enjoy being dumb.
No, it's basic mathematics. But you're too simple for even simple maths.
Where are you bots coming from? Primary school?
Where are you idiots coming from? Russian 'think' tanks?
Your denial is incredible!
Russia.
Is that why they now talk about war with NATO? So they get even richer?
No, they just talk bullshit to score points with Russian sheeple. But that doesn't mean Putin's regime needs a victory.
I thought they didn't want a victory. More war, more profits!
They don't want a victory indeed. As I said already.
So the Kyiv offensive was a feint after all. Genius!
The second greatest army in Ukraine wants to mess with Nato? LOL
War has fuck-all to do with rights. If you're going to attack a NATO country we will beat your ass back into the stone age without mercy, your nukes won't save you if you dare cross that line.
No but they'll sure kill a lot of us, whichever ones still fire and hit their marks at least. Who's to say if they've maintained their stock over the decades.
And the citizens will be told the whole time about how it's some plot to destroy them as people, to stoke the flames.
An actual war with Russia wouldn't end well for anyone short of having an internal coup with an actual plan for government afterwards instead of this slow handoff of power from one authoritarian dictator to the next.
an actual war with russia wont end well for russia, thats about it. even russia isnt dumb enough to try nuclear war
Don't confuse the requirement of lack of intelligence with the willingness of a person willing to drag the world to hell as they're being taken down.
So has Denmark.
Though it would be funny ig Russia didn't. Imagine Putin declaring war on Poland and Poland just saying "no, it's against the law."
Being invaded? Just say no - they legally cannot take your territory without your consent.
Poland is chomping at the bit to kick Russian teeth in right now, the first legit opportunity that comes up they’re taking it
It will be the special special operation.
Special Operation 2: Electric Nazi-loo
I mean... he's not wrong? They could have a war with NATO any time they wanted it. Russia could have war with NATO whenever they want it. They've been very careful to not actually DO that, of course. Last thing they need is to start losing another one with someone who won't have any difficulty in bringing the full conflict right to them.
But do they have the ability to war? 🤔
They can't even fight a small country like Ukraine and they want to test the might of a fully armed and optional
BattlestaionNATO alliance? Do they believe that anyone really believes them?Ukraine is no small country, either in terms of area or population.
And foreign aid
Lol what?
Ukraine is tiny. It's roughly the same size as Texas and has roughly the same population as California. Alaska is larger than Ukraine.
Its the functional equivalent of Russia trying to invade Texas and failing. It's a massive embarrassment for a former super power that likely can't ever be recovered from.
I'm going to guess you are European, as I've found most Europeans don't understand the size of countries outside of Europe.
My brother in Christ, we, as a nation, have really big states bruh
Most countries around the world have a population smaller than California. The US is just really big. Even then, California alone has about 12% of the entire population of the US, the third most populated country.
TIL that Texas is tiny.
Listen buddy, you seem to think that if we say that Ukraine is not a small country, that somehow gives Russia glory or something. That's silly.
PS. I'm Canadian, if that means anything in this context.
Texas IS tiny when you compare it against the size of a country that isn't in Europe.
As to the rest of your message... I have no idea what you are even trying to say
Gotta love those optional
battlestaionsNATO alliances.History's on their side? Boy do I have news for him...
Well, recent history involves a lot of wars kicking Russians ass. Afghanistan, Chechnya, Ukraine...
And everyone has the right to shoot back. Not sure why such a declaration comes across as so one sided.
Nobody is stopping them from exercising that right against any NATO country. What about Poland? They have been a historical nuisance, Dimi. Just shoot a rocket at a farm somewhere, but make it intentional this time.
A right to war? Are you fucking high?
I mean... I can't see any issue with NATO not stopping Ukraine from invading its own territory... the territory the UN recognizes as part of Ukraine... and which Russia signed three separate treaties promising to respect as part of Ukraine.
Not doubting you for a second, but can you point me to the treaties? I seem to have to convince people over and over on this service that Ukraine is an independent country with recognized international borders.
Yes of course... Russia acknowledged Ukraine's borders and territorial integrity when:
Ukraine was admitted to the UN in 1945 with its current borders (which Russia could have vetoed).
Ukraine's sovereign status and territorial integrity were guaranteed in the Belovezha Accords in 1991, which recognized the dissolution of the USSR and the borders and sovereignty of the former member states.
Ukraine agreed to transfer control of its 4,700 nuclear weapons to the Russian Federation in exchange for guarantees by the US, UK, and Russian Federation that they would not threaten to use (or use) military force against Ukraine... in the Budapest Memorandum in 1996.
Russia specifically recognized Ukraine's sovereignty in Crimea when Ukraine agreed to lease it military bases there (and split the Black Sea fleet, stationed in Crimea, 50/50 in 1997) in the Partition Treaty.
The two countries agreed not to declare war on one another, to treat each other's territory as inviolable and to prohibit the use of military force to resolve any future territorial disputes in the same year's Treaty of Friendship.
Russia agreed to "final borders" in January 2003 (which include Crimea, Kherson, etc)
As you know, Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014; they signed a ceasefire in 2015 once again confirming Ukraine's territorial integrity, but this was almost immediately violated, so I'm not sure I'd even count it.
Hope it helps. The three that were top of mind for me were 1991, 1996, and 2003.
One of them is the Budapest Memorandum
Not sure which are the other to. Perhaps https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisbon_Protocol
It's always fascinating to hear Putin talk about "history", and "denazification". You know the truth, so you can observe a mad man lying, and perhaps believing it. Like a child telling an obvious lie, convinced he pulled it off. Except, much less cute and a lot more terrifying.
The point of the lie isn’t to convince. Everyone knows it’s not true. The point of the lie is to make others repeat it, proving that they value your favor more than they value the truth.
It’s a loyalty test.
I listed them in another comment in reply to the question... i wasn't even including the Lisbon protocol, wild.
These dumbfucks can’t manage a war with Ukraine. To state the obvious.
They're managing the war just fine.
Are you enjoying your Lada?
No Ladas in the UK, only Jags, me very sad...
Mate, you can't even win against a non-NATO country, that happens to be the poorest in Europe.
But sure, you have the right to have a war with everyone. Even if we all know you can't.
“Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?” - Mr. Blonde.
"Mister Krushchev said, "We will bury you" I don't subscribe to this point of view It'd be such an ignorant thing to do If the Russians love their children too"
-Sting
Michael Madsen is awesome as Mr Blonde. Such a fucking psycho.
A house cat has the right to attack a lion as well...
Well, yeah. Everyone has the right to make bad decisions
Oh no, we're all gonna be totally dead in 3 days. Remember how they took Kiev in 3 days? Flawlessly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KyivNotKiev
Ya got me, my point is rendered completely irrelevant by this spelling error. I will now go die in a hole like the dirty subhuman that I am.
I am ready to be buried, sir.
I was not trying to insult you, sorry for bothering you. I'm just a regular Kyiv citizen trying to make the world better :)
That's fair and I appreciate it, but I am still squatting in this hole waiting to be buried..
Sure. And the mouse has the right to war with the elephant. But it's not a very clever thing to do.
... I mean, ok?
Come get some.
Oh don't bother. Medvedev is a joke. Always has been. I tell you this as a Russian.
You know, it makes me wonder if we'd even need troops in the conflict zone. We probably can use drones and satellite to find the enemy, then use drones to elimate them. It's not asymmetrical warfare like Afghanistan or Iraq.
How are they gonna have time to bury anybody when they're busy burying hundreds of thousands of citizens they force to go to war for them?
Just claiming you have the right doesn't mean you actually have the right. Ask January 6 trumpers for more information on that subject.
On another point: just because you can doesn't mean you should. You can kick a Lion in the balls but that doesn't make it a great idea.
Then again, I'm sure Russia's leadership knows this and right now is just posing like an 8th grader bragging about his uncle being a navy seal because holy shit, Russia is fuuuuuuucked.
For the next decades it will be busy pulling itself together, trying to rebuild an international economy that doesn't rely 100% on unsustainable practices of just selling all it's minerals, getting rid of the reputation that Putin gave it, trying to rebuild a military that isn't the laughing stock of the world... And all that is assuming that the country doesn't fall apart, doesn't dove into civil war and that say, china doesn't decide it likes the taste ofmsome of the pieces that are left.
Russia is fubar, and right now Ukraine is the victim, butt within this decade, the innocent Russian citizens will be the victims of it all
Are the Russian citizens all that innocent? Those that are born into it, of course. Is it all paid shills and fear that results in 80% approval rating for Putin and this war?
I deeply despise the nationalist gangsters that make up the Russian elite, but this blaming of "Russian citizens" is either incredibly stupid or downright fascist. What do you propose to do to 116 million people (80% of 146 million) as punishment for ...approving Putin? What kind of court are you envisioning? What kind of procedure for establishing what kind of guilt? And even if we do accept the utterly moronic idea that there is guilt in a population like that, how do you separate the guilty from the remaining 30 million "innocent" people? Or is the arbitrary "punishment" of 30 million innocents an inconvenient side-effect of your spite?
Is that 80% approval rating believable?
If 80% truly do approve, is it because they are "bad" or brainwashed with little to no choice?
Idk what the solution is either way though.
I think Russians justike being controlled with an iron fist. No other explanation why they seem to always go they way.
I think it's more like they don't and can't care. It's probably the same situation as in Hungary, where Orbán basically micromanages 90% of the news sources the average citizen gets to access, so they of course overwhelmingly approve him and "his valiant fight against the evils surrounding the noble Hungarian nation".
Krushchev is an interesting person to quote here. Wasn't he stripped of power by an empire that would utterly collapse within 20 years of his death?
Okay...? Why would you want to though? Just want to kill a lot of people for no other reason than, "but I have the right to!"
Freedom of
SpeechWar doesn't mean Freedom from Consequences!What consequences? The only consequence Russia has today is a booming economy.
Hahahaha
Imagine being as stupid as @Aux.
Haha what? Russian economy only dipped by 2% during 2022, that's less than during the pandemic. IMF says it will actually see a healthy growth in 2023. Also Russian government can run at deficit for decades to boost economy even further. Simply because they have one of the lowest debts in the world. And don't forget - most of the world don't give a heck about the war and continues to trade with Russia. Sanctions only made Russia a very attractive partner for many countries like India and China, which are now buying craploads of oil, gas and other resources.
Hahahaha
How much is the Ruble worth again? Fractionally less or fractionally more than a U.S. penny? I forget.
Going to war isn't about rights. Rights are a soft power thing while war is purely about hard power. What is he even trying to say here? Like if there was a right and lack of a right to war, what would they look like? What would the functional difference between the two be?
It's psyops, nothing more. They perceive it as "playing the west's game" in a double bid to stoke their own citizens and trip up NATO counterparts by using "western" language against them.
The right in this context is invented: A projection of hard power through the lip service of soft power.
You have the right to guzzle bleach if you choose also... just sayin'.
Ha! Your mouth is writing checks your ass can't cash.
I wish a motherfucker would tho.
🎶Dumb ways to die 🎶
Has everyone in Russia forgotten about mutual assured destruction? Or are they old and susceptible to COVID and just plan to take everyone else with them?
Surely they're not insane enough to think they could win at sea or land against multiple first world nations.
So Dmitry. Found something to say from the bottom of the bottle again, eh?
He knows Glasgow is part of NATO, right? No-one sane is offering that lot outside.
And not even 15 years ago this russkie was hailed as the dovish counterpart to Putler.
Given how reliable their "advanced weaponry" has been in Ukraine, I expect many of their nucks are non functional so if they go to war, Russia will become a giant radioactive hole while the rest of the world will escape annihilation. Can somebody please just take out Putin FFS?
Nah man. Nobody wants that. Are you willing to let it be you that gets nuked? Your family, your children, your home?
Read my last sentence??
So you first advocate for nuclear weapons to be used, and then you say just kill Putin. I'm not sure how the last sentence excuses the other sentence
Please learn to read. Where do I "advocate for nuclear weapons to be used"?
Please learn to be less of a cunt. "Russia will become a nuclear hole." And since you like downvotes, here's yours.
Just as I thought. Can't understand the simple word "if". Go fuck yourself.
You've been had. I love that I can hear your heartbeat go up in your response. You're a clown 🤡
As if
This guy called it a war! To prison with him!
If you go to war with one NATO country, you go to war with all NATO countries.
The only interesting question here isn’t how the war will go, it’s how the NATO countries will get to divide up the spoils after Russia is crushed.
i dont think putin could window his way out of that loss if it where to ever happen
Sure Buddy
I'd like to see you do that, mr. Medvedev.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The former Russian Prime Minister - widely seen as a stopgap for Vladimir Putin - repeatedly takes to social media to write provocative and inflammatory statements about the Ukraine war and its Western allies.
In Tuesday's tweet, Medvedev warned the "apocalypse" was "drawing nearer", quoting biblical verse and old Soviet leaders.
“We are remembered until we stand in the others’ way,” attributed to Vladimir Lenin, who led the Bolshevik Revolution and was the first leader and founder of the Soviet Union.
Medvedev, Russia's Deputy Chairman of the Security Council, ended the tweet with a notorious quote from former USSR leader Nikita Khrushchev made to Western ambassadors in 1956, which reads: "Whether you like it, or not, history is on our side.
Most of Medvedev's past threats have rung hollow or provoked ridicule online from large numbers of social media users.
He added Poland was "temporarily occupied", alluding to NATO presence inside the country, which includes 10,000 American troops, according to AP.
The original article contains 629 words, the summary contains 160 words. Saved 75%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Good luck with that...
Oh god how I hope they fucking try it
Why do you want a third world war?
Because sometimes you just need to hit someone to get a lesson to stick. Like we did to Hitler.
Eh, maybe a nuclear winter will help stave off some of this global warming.
Lol, might as well change his surname to Kim Jong.
Except they really don’t. There’s no casus belli that passes the smell test.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_aggression
But do you have the ability?
The only way the Russian army would bury NATO is in the collective wave of shit which would emanate from their pants if they actually faced real Western military action
Sure, Jan
deleted by creator
Look who is back from alcohol coma
I'm torn between "oh yeah? that's crazy" and "oh god we're all going to nuke each other"
Technically he's correct about the right, NATO agreed not to expand east back in the day and then violated that. I haven't seen the evidence that they could bury everyone though.
There was no such promise.
Stop spreading Kremlin propaganda.
So yeah this is another case of russia bending history to fuel their victim complex.
Yes they did. Stop believing Social media trash propaganda you support.
It's written right in your article:
Read past the first line.
It's all that matters. Some random utterances, speaking off the record etc. don't count, aren't and cannot be binding.
How could we bind ourselves to something if we don't even know what exactly was promised?
Furthermore, were those people uttering those hypothetical sentences even authorized to make such promises? We'll never know, they were never written down, never vetted, nothing. It's all meaningless.
Nope. The article then goes on to describe his research into exactly how NATO discussed how there was a long history of informal agreements during the cold war. The Cuban Missile Crisis was resolved informally for example.
Well, US domestic politics isn't international, is it?
What did the other side receive? We'll never know, since it wasn't recorded, most people involved can't remember (Gorbachev couldn't recall any such promises) and/or are already dead.
It can be used to resolve an immediate problem. But it's absurd to think that an unrecorded agreement whose terms nobody knows will be binding for eternity.
Wars have been started for far less. Not like there's a world court that's going to rule if a claim is valid or not.
This is not why the war was started, this is just the excuse they're trying to justify it with. Don't be complicit.
Yeah I know. And in the end the reason doesn't matter, like at all.
Is it expansion if people are clamoring to join you?
no, but technically yes! Not like Russia needs to justify anything based on truth if that's what they decide to do anyway though.
Technically yes isn't yes tho. I mean Russia will do anything to justify itself. The difference between NATO expansion and Russian expansion, Russia engages military operations while countries are trying to join NATO to protect themselves from Russia
Oh yeah, and it's just propaganda. If your home is being bombed and country being invaded does it matter the motive? not really.
what? who is invading russia? NATO has invaded anyone else either
No one. Just the hypothetical. "I blew up your house because you are a nazi/fascist/commie!" Even if that's a lie it doesn't fix your house.
so to be clear on the original point, NATO hasnt broken any treaty and its 'expansion' is people wanting to join so that they dont get invaded by russia