China’s Youth Are Quitting the Rat Race to ‘Let It Rot’
wsj.com
Young people in China are becoming more rebellious, questioning their nation’s traditional expectations of career and family
Young people in China are becoming more rebellious, questioning their nation’s traditional expectations of career and family
So.. there'll be a lot of great Chinese punk music soon?
There was an explosion of Chinese punk/alt bands late 90s/ early 2000s but they gave way to hip hop/pop. Still a decent scene in Beijing. One of my favorite bands from that era is called Wood pushing melon (木推瓜).
https://youtu.be/j\_dq-tQuNrA?si=3tEzKqRpgVUlm2yn
The lead singer left that band and started an incredible tribal folk group called Dawanggang next
https://youtu.be/toaZqu\_4hMw?si=1XQP0yKpz3rsGTD0
Yep. There's a lot of Chinese punk, post-punk, goth, New Wave etc etc etc. sadly, outside of China you don't hear much about it because of the old firewall and of course language barriers.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/j_dq-tQuNrA?si=3tEzKqRpgVUlm2yn
https://piped.video/toaZqu_4hMw?si=1XQP0yKpz3rsGTD0
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Yeah. China's speed running to true communism at a pace I wasn't expecting. There's a legitimate chance for the elimination of scarcity of basic goods in China "soon", which would lead to a flourishing of the arts.
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about?
Surely this is sarcasm.
That would be awesome
Got any good examples of this?
I do know that between 1950 and 2000 poverty and starvation dropped like a stone. I havent been watching closely enough to tell for the past couple decades. I don't mean to sound cynical, but it can be hard to tell what's slavery and what's improvement of living standards through the media and on such short timescales
I know theyre installing a ton of solar/wind. Superbundance could happen there and that could be great. I got my fingers crossed.
How's agriculture doing?
I think they're very well positioned with electric cars and are going to take marketshare from everyone else in that industry.
I hope they quit killing the sea and bossing around their neighbors
Their effots in Africa are probably going to benefit them greatly. I hope they arent doing to Africa whatthre US did with South America in early/mid 20th century... with the saddling of unpayable debts, extracting resources and installing viscious dictators
I read recently OPECy folks are openly conspiring to flood Africas market with cheap and shitty fossil fuel power plants and cars to expand the oil market. It'd be rad someone flooded it with cheaper and better electric cars/heatpumps and renewable power. I wish the US/Europe would
Lol! This piss-take xD
It's interesting because people are people and it doesn't matter where you are born.
If you look at it from a birds eye view you will see a younger, smart generation trying to fight it's own governments.
It's not USA vs China vs Russia vs Europe etc. it is the younger generation vs the old generation. Currently each generation is fighting it's own government and slowly realising how poor they have done in the last decades.
Nobody wants war.
No, it's owning class vs working class, anything else is a distraction in service of the owning class.
Workers of the world, unite! ✊
(edited in image. If you need image description - source)
Even marxists don't simplify the classes as much as that diagram suggests. It's missing peasants, artisans and the petty bourgeois. It's also never been as simple as capitalist vs working class. Capitalists regularly fight amongst themselves as do the working class. This whole idea of class struggle being the only struggle is so oversimplified it's kinda silly.
I don't think it's honest to frame it in generational language either btw. Though that is a component of it.
Imagine that - an infograph gives a concise summery of a larger idea.. 🤯
Either way - it is really that simple and splitting the working class in to splinter groups is just another division, which again - only serves the owning class. Them fighting amongst themselves is irrelevant, they've been united enough to maintain this system for centuries because they have the same goal - stay in power, make as much money as possible. If that happens via collaboration one week, then they'll collaborate that week, if it means they need to go to war the next week, then they will, and have been, doing exactly that.
In contrast, as long as the working class stays divided (along race, gender, ability, and even "work level" or whatever you'd call the division you've brought up) we will never be free.
I'm the furthest thing from a class reductionist, and I think intersectionality is vital, but all of the systemic barriers we face (racism, sexism, ableism, querrphobia, and so on) exist to serve capitalism and those who benefit from it. That doesn't mean those systems don't need addressing, but part of doing that is understanding why they exist, and how they serve to divide us.
Seriously, what end could splitting hairs over "peasants" or "artisans" possibly serve (And are those hundreds of years old terms even relevant in our world with our technology?)? Even the petit bourgeois is oppressed by the owning class, the system convincing them that a "middle class" exists is part of the fucking con, and the whole fucking point is to see how irrelevant these semantics are and fucking unite so that we can have a better society for everyone.. 🤦♀️
You haven't read marxist or anarchist theories very well if this is what you think.
Artisans are any one man business. They don't have employers to exploit them that's why they are an important class in marxist analysis.
Petty bourgeois aren't middle class necessarily; it refers to small business owners. They are exploiters of the workers beneath them while being exploited by others. Small time land lords would be petit bourgeois for example. These people are in essence part of the "owner class" because they own a business or building.
Peasants are not considered to be a revolutionary class because they aren't the proletariat. Not a problem in western societies but some countries still have peasants.
You don't think racism affects business owners or landlords? Or sexism? Or anything else?
This is the kind of assertion given without evidence that made me leave marxists behind. I am sick to death of people claiming all these problems are because of capitalism. If anything capitalism has helped address some of these issues like sexism because women not working is bad for the system. In fact not fully utilizing people because of prejudice in general is bad for capitalism which is all about efficiency and exploitation.
Edit: also policy regarding peasants is one area where marxism and anarchism differ significantly from what little I understand of anarchism.
There's nothing wrong with a simplified model if it gets you the results you're looking for. And for the vast majority of the working class thinking in simplistic terms such as capitalist vs. worker would improve their lives tremendously.
The more complex models might be useful for explaining how things change and evolve. But mainly complexity is introduced by capitalists (or capitalist simps) to sow discord among workers and keep us from organizing effectively.
Why are all the marxists coming out of the wood work? Y'all can't run a society for shit. Why are you still here and existing?
China was one of your experiments that went wrong. Go and build a working model for a socialist or communist society and I might listen. Until then you have nothing to add. Anarchists had better luck than you guys and you killed them for it.
I mean, call me whatever you want. It's irrelevant. Do you need my vote or not? If you don't then ignore me. If you do then pay attention.
So are you a marxist or something else?
Which country do you live in? I live in the UK so unless you are here it's mostly irrelevant what you vote for.
You asked the question bud. Not my fault you don't like the answer.
So I will take it you don't live here and I don't need your vote.
If you only want UKers answering your question then say so in the first place.
You're the one who asked if I needed your vote lmao. I don't. You're just annoyed you don't have any leverage over me.
I'm waiting for Gen Z to realize that they've grown up interconnected and have the ability to coordinate like no one ever could before and when they realize that I expect them to flip the monopoly board.
This is exactly why the billionaires are dismantling the current social media platforms. Organizing is the only threat they truly fear.
As phrased in a recent anti-union campaign by Amazon: Watch out, your co-workers might be "vulnerable to organizing".
Can you expand on how billionaires are dismantling social media?
did you miss what happened to twitter?
No. I don't see how it was "dismantled." Can you explain?
Rate limiting and heavily pushed “premium” options have made Twitter near useless for large scale organizing.
600 posts a day makes it nearly useless for organizing?
Have you attempted to use the platform since the rate limiting? It’s approximately 2-3 searches before you’re rate limited out of the app for 24+ hours.
You’re also unable to view comments unless you’re logged in, so you’re required to give them semi-accurate information for an account too.
It’s literally useless for organizing unless you pay for it, which defeats the entire purpose of wide spread reach like it used to have.
Okay so twitter is useless. What about all of the other social media sites out there?
None ever had the organizational reach Twitter did. FB/Instagram require more personal data and are much worse for discoverability. Mastodon and BlueSky have the issue of nobody using them (in the grand scheme of things). Lemmy and Reddit don’t work well because of reach and censorship respectively.
There still isn’t something out there that replaces the use cases of Twitter.
You're kind of defeating the point here by talking about all of these other social media sites that are available, none of which you claim has been dismantled. . .and even rejecting some of them as not being good only because enough people aren't using them. This is not a dismantling of the system.
Its capitalist owners rendered it useless for political organization.
This is just repeating the claim. Can you explain how so?
It is wasteful by way of being botted up to the point of inefficiency for individual political communication and its owners are happy to take payments from abusive operators responsible for the bots, if not doing the botting themselves. That's just Twitter. Other platforms experience similar crapitalist growing pains albeit not all exactly in the same way. For profit motivated entities, there's always a diminishing ROI on politically actionable systems.
Twitter was a bot fest long before Musk took it over. And that isn't a problem with billionaires, but an inherent problem with system itself that can be, and is, exploited by plenty of people.
I am of Gen Z. The opposite is true, I would think. Or, rather, the truth is more complicated in both directions. It's not true to say we've "grown up interconnected", by the 2010's, most of the mainstream culture was basically gone. You had maybe the marvel movies, but, you know, social media, the internet, kind of revealed a self-evident truth. That there wasn't a grand a unifying "american culture". At the very least, such a thing had been waning for a long time, but the counter-cultural movements of the 90's could still be considered a unifying culture of gen X, and elder millennials. Lots of people watched MTV. The closest thing zoomers have is stuff like mr beast, or kai cenat, which we might all be tangentially aware of, but we've all become atomized, there's a limited number of zoomers who watch that and that's not "the culture". There is less genuine engagement with a "the culture", and more awareness of a variety of subcultures, of a broadness.
You know, along those lines, there's also a lack of ability to coordinate. We can "coordinate", yes, you can use social media to DM and communicate with other people, but you're doing so at great risk. Basically every social media site now, of the major ones, is a fed honeypot, and you can be banned at any time for any truly revolutionary action or coordination. Your coordination is also easily trackable and visible and thus easily co-opted, corporatized, destroyed. I would've thought that tech literacy would've gone up with Gen-Z, you know, kind of along the same lines as a fish swims in water, but, you know, owing to that same metaphor, what the fuck is water, david foster wallace style. I don't know shit about that guy other than that single joke. The kids have no tech literacy, because everything has been crafted to be easily accessible, and simplified, by the companies that now control the internet.
I think the only shot really is if the tech oligopoly is broken up, and not just in terms of regulation, like what the FTC does, but it has to be bred out. The environment and technology must change in such a way as to no longer allow those sorts of fiefdoms. Tech adoption must happen that eliminates that. Which it kind of can't, because the technology is still subject to all the material conditions and market forces, but then we're kind of encountering a chicken and egg problem. Fediverse is pretty good as a solution but we've seen limited buy-in, partially as a result of the conceit of the thing, and I think, you know, if we don't learn any lessons from the classic internet (we won't), we could just see some fediverse instance, a singular instance, get uber-popular, and then just kind of separate from all the others after they've grown to encompass the whole thing. Migrate away, bam, new monopoly, just as happened in days past.
In any case, the environment must change, tech literacy, media literacy, all the literacies must rise, and then I think we would be primed to flip the chess board. I would say that Gen Alpha might be the ones primed for it, but I think, you know. They're all like, the true Ipad kids, that are condemned to watch youtube kids content, which is the most reprehensible shit imaginable, with the worst of millenial parenting that I've seen. Maybe number blocks and alpha-blocks and bluey will save everyone, but I kind of doubt it somehow, the millenials seem a little bit too fucked up to break the cycle and I kind of don't really want to see what happens when a bunch of Gen Z parents who watch mr beast and can breathe in the polluted water start having kids. You know, I think the reaction is going to be much the same generation to generation, in terms of people who uncritically propagate the same shit, people who are nihilistic and angry at everything and take it out on their kids, and people who do their best to give the best to their kids and end up sheltering their kids in the process. I dunno. I kind of hope I'm wrong.
Also climate change is happening at a really good clip so that's maybe a bigger priority, cause unless that gets stopped, then this is all a moot point.
I think we just keep normalizing it and you wittpe down the population to those to unaware to notice it's shit but simply continue cause it's the animal drive and those who are psychopathic self driving who don't care if it gets worse cause they expect to get their own at any cost. And the world will spin on and get worse and worse without end until it does.
I would expect nothing of the sort. They're already been misdirected into the blanket "boomers bad" mentality, that all the old people living in poverty are somehow to blame for all their ills.
The ruling class will continue to rule, because they know exactly how to manipulate the plebs.
Of course it's the super rich, but who is voting for policies that support the super rich? It's not young people.
Well the young don't vote at all most of the time.
But when was the last time you saw a party with policies that didn't support the super rich? Since Reagan, no matter if the president wears a red or blue tie, the rich have gotten richer.
The only choice is how much poorer the poor get, with a side order of "other" hate. When the Zoomers are 50, don't worry. There'll be a whole new bunch of "others" to hate on, to distract them from the fact that they can just barely pay the rent. The boomers thought they'd be different too. Peace and love and hippies and Woodstock. Gen Z will be no different.
This but with the emphasis on the people who got fucking killed or put in prison or aged out of the ability for revolutionary action, while the rest of them kind of, left those guys to rot in jail, and went on to just exist passively in the system, and purport the same hippie mentalities, and then get sorted, just the same as last time. Power corrupts and is magnetic to the easily corruptible.
You know, I do wonder if, as the contradiction builds, and the farce kind of becomes more obvious, with like, the starbucks pride month rainbow logo while they also crush their unions, I wonder if everyone will make progress along that, as the marxists kind of tend to predict, with the whole "capital contains the seeds of it's own destruction" spiel. I dunno. I think probably people don't give a shit about contradiction though and are free to just keep living with a totally normalized cognitive dissonance.
Oh you're just doing some "both sides" doomerism. Got it.
Aw, reading comprehension too much for you?
Haha okay dude, you're clearly out of touch with the youth these days. Gen Z says "okay boomer" and that's pretty much it en masse. Gen Z is however not putting up with corporate bullshit as much.
It's kinda been that way since the internet has been readily available.
It’s been that way since the 1960s at least.
Since the 18th century at least.
Humans always have and always will struggle with government. It’s a complex topic and every decision has tradeoffs.
No war but the class war
Boomers want a war.
I actually think that the biggest damage the parents of the Boomers committed was glorifying their war stories. Don't get me wrong, I probably would have too so I'm not saying this out of judgement. But I think the Boomers grew up feeling like the only way to prove themselves was to fight as hard as their parents did. And when there weren't any Nazis to be found, they found fights with anybody they could.
... including their own children.
Idk, if I was young and rich I probably wouldn't give a shit about changing anything. I'd maybe even invest in anything that promised to keep things the same
That's EXACTLY what they do - invest I'm anything that promised to keep things the same, this is our salary.
Don't trust anyone over 30.
Im over 35 and I know better than to trust myself!
glares at reflection in mirror
... you do realize lemmy users skew older, and it's not just kids saying "eat the rich", right?
I understand that quote, but these days it's a dumb one. Gone are the days of "settling down" into a bubble once you hit 30.
Right, but I was replying to someone making it a generational thing.
I agree the quote is stupid. Also the guy was joking/exaggerating when he said it, never meant it the way it was used (even in movies, like Planet of the Apes) and also thought it was stupid. Which is partly why I picked it.
Amazing arc, like watching the last 120 years in the US compressed down to a couple decades. From rural to industrial powerhouse to the kids going “fuck this shit”.
What’s next?
It's like watching a speedrun: Capitalism any%.
Next? Some of them have to be thinking "wait, this is a communist country, isn't it?"
I don't think anyone think of China as a communist/socialist country for a very long time. Maybe except older generations and tankies.
Ironically, I have met more tankies in six month on lemmy than my 18 years growing up in China. It is truly a wild culture shock that I didn't expect. LOL.
A "tankie" isn't a communist anymore than an American Republican wants individual freedom.
Anyone that supports China is going to say it's communist, and anyone from the right shitting on China is going to say they're communist.
But both groups are pretty much the same and no one should listen to either
My pet conspiracy theory is that a bunch of tankies are actually CIA trolls, in an effort to tie criticism of the US together with completely bonkers causes. The end goal being that if you think the US is not the best thing ever, you must be a tankie, and you support authoritarian regimes like Iran and China.
Some of the tankie(bots) I have argued with on here are so contrarian that it seems that way to me, as well. They don't try to argue in good faith, and they never concede no matter how much they are proven wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of them are bots or bad actors either from the CIA, China, or Russia.
The CCP doesn’t even claim that China is communist though. Idk where you’re getting that from.
Can I get a source for the communist party of China saying they're not communists?
The CCP are communists though. There is no denying that. That doesn’t mean they think China is a communist country. Communism to them doesn’t just mean the communists are in power. Communism to them is more of an ideal they aim to work towards.
That's not a source...
And it's like saying American Republican voters want personal freedom.
It doesn't matter what someone says if their actions are the opposite
A source for what? You asked the question,
I’m trying to clarify what I said because it sounds like you misinterpreted me. If you want a source of the CCP saying that they think China is not yet communist that’s an entirely different question altogether.
it's not that ironic if you look at lemmy's origin.
A gigantic Lemmy instance?
They already have two.
Without draconian censorship you can't really replicate the experience of Chinese social media. I mean, I'm sure I'd be able to say things like sprinkling pepper 撒胡椒面 or facilitating commerce while loosening my clothing 通商宽衣.
Just doesn't feel the same.
Civil war, if our current trajectory is any indication.
I mean, that was almost a national sport over there, before the CPC.
摆烂 bai3lan4
A slang term that means "stop striving", I'd say it's loosely akin to the phrase "quiet quitting" but a bit more general.
Also referenced in the article was the phrase 'tang ping’ (lying flat, 躺平)
Will they be planking soon?
Pretty sure this is happening all over, not just in China.
Its just a generic filler article that gets posted about young people every year or two.
"Quiet Quitting" was the thing in 2022.
"Great Resignation" was the thing in 2021
You can find articles about this in 2019, 2016, omfg all over the place in the wake of 2008, "Jobless Recovery" from 2004 to 2006, in the 90s it was "Slackers" and in the 80s it was "Punks" and in the 70s and 60s it was "Hippies" and then back to Beatniks and Anarchists and of course, the old crowd favorite, Pinko Commies.
This is just a more recent mash up of the "China Bad" and "Nobody Wants To Work Anymore" meme
LOL, spot on.
Can say I've definitely "stopped striving", don't know if it's from Long Covid, living paycheck to paycheck cause my pay gets min/maxed for the business, personal infighting thanks to Fox News and Republican bullshit tearing apart and killing families over vaccinations, or maybe it's just the weather 🤷♂️ lol fuck
yea even the young zoomers i see at uni seem slow
they are also fat
This is not how I want to read an article.
I checked the comments before opening the article and wasn't sure what to expect based on yours.
Holy hell, we really are catering to the lowest common denominator here. It's not that I think we shouldn't, we absolutely should, but our society really should be working harder to keep lowest from being so damn low.
And reader view doesn’t pick it up… gross
Well if you jump to the last picture there's a link to open the full article, then you can.... stare at the paywall.....
As much as I agree, I've seen plenty of articles that are so damn long it makes me wonder if they actually expect people to read it. Who has time to read an entire 30 min article where half is about a specific person's personal story that's only meant to back up the main points. Just tell me the main point and back it with data (bonus points if you kink every source you reference, imo).
That's why I think more detailed articles should be written like scientific journal articles. One to three paragraphs that convey the gist of the article and the remaining pages dedicated to analysis and explanation.
Not only would this be more work than a normal article, though, it'd reduce ad revenue because most people would read the abstract and leave.
Mmm, yes, show us your kink sources.
The Tiktok Manga Slideshow format has finally migrated to major news sites I see.
God I hate tech this decade.
I feel this sentiment in my bones. I know it gets overused, but the word of the decade so far really does seem to be enshittification. The only thing that seems to be getting better is self-hosting, which is still a massive pain in the ass for a lot of things.
I mind this less than the stupid video articles.
It's just buzzfeed articles returning from the grave. They'd split a few paragraphs over 20 pages somehow
Over half of Americans read at below a 6th grade reading level. So it makes sense that they want to bring back picture books.
They're called graphic novels....
Kidding
Is this still true? Damn shame if so
Might be the worst experience I’ve had. We don’t want books. We got rid of books
It's like a picture book!
Not great but not terrible. At least there were no ads.
The problem with The Rat race is, even if you win, you’re still a rat.
I'll say this some time and someone will tell me I'm an idiot for quoting some awful person, but right now - not knowing if it is a quote or not - I love this
I've always thought the value of quotes (when they have any) is based entirely on their content rather than who spoke them. A smart quote from an awful person is still smart. And a dumb quote from a smart person is still dumb, like that definition of insanity one that often gets attributed to Einstein.
I'm sure there's some sort of logical fallacy to be said about negating the quality of a quote based on the person who said it. Like, if Einstein said it, then it must be smart. If Hitler said it, then it must be evil. Etc.
Yeah, it's an appeal to authority.
Well, you got me curious.
Seems like the first use was in a life magazine article by someone who didn't want to take explicit credit, so chances are it was something thought of by his students. And then it was repeated by various comedians over the years.
For what it's worth, my quick skim of the author, William Sloane Coffin's wiki makes him seem like a pretty great guy.
This is a great quote, I also like to say (especially in places like airports or government buildings):
It's not a rat race, it's a rat queue.
One of the behavioralist psychologists, I think it was Pavlov, ran an experiment on dogs where he shocked them for both bad behavior good.
Eventually, the shocks had no effect.
Leaned hopelessness. Can't escape the effect regardless of your efforts so eventually you stop trying
It was Martin Seligman who did dog shock experiments and developed the theory of learned helplessness in 1967. While Seligman demonstrated that learned helplessness did occur, we still don't know why learned helplessness occurs (especially in humans).
Pavlov was much earlier (1897) and formed the theory of classical conditioning where a primary stimulus (food) was paired with a neutral stimulus (a bell) under the right conditions until the neutral stimulus would evoke a similar automatic response as the primary stimulus (e.g. drooling).
What you are describing also sounds a little like operant conditioning, where a learned behaviour is reinforced or punished with the application or removal of a stimulus. Or in this case, where the link between a behaviour and a stimulus is eroded to the point where the learned link goes extinct, and the subject becomes desensitized to the repeated stimulus.
Damn I feel that
Wait so you’re telling me abusing dogs results in a negative outcome?
Shit who would have thought!
They have an interesting strategy where they workout expenses for the year if they lived minimal. It might be 9k. So they work for a few months and save up that money then quit their job and "lay flat" for the rest of the year.
Honestly, that sounds amazing, and illustrates why, "can you explain this gap on your resume" is such a bull shit interview question.
What? This illustrates exactly why it’s an important question.
If you’re responsible for hiring are you going to hire someone who has gaps in their resume or someone that’s been consistently working?
The person with gaps on their resume is more likely to quit on you. You aren’t going to hire someone who looks like they will quit.
The actual solution is to figure out why work sucks so hard that people find loopholes like this to get around it. If i can work 4 months out of the year and take care of myself, why would you want to eork any more?
Agreed but employers don’t care. They are the ones with the power. Having you work 60 hours a week is a means of control. If you quit there is a line of people out there that’s willing to take the job. Employers know this and exploit it.
If you think you can change this power dynamic then go for it, but there are too many desperate people out there for that to happen.
one of the problems of modern work environments is that workplaces get saturated with people who actually should leave but don't. It is a bullshit question even if (like many modern problems) it would make sense if we were still in an era where corporations valued long term employees and mutual loyalty was a thing that existed.
Loyalty or not employers aren’t going to bother hiring someone they know is going to walk out in a month or two. That’s why they ask the question. It isn’t rocket science.
"well I work for a short time and then just quit and do nothing."
I can see why they might ask the question. I don't expect people to put the business above themselves, but I certainly would be less likely to hire someone if I knew they were just going to quit after a few months because they have no ambition.
I don't blame them.. The older generations really screwed the pooch for the younger generation. Basically made China inhospitable for foreign investment so all these young people are left high and dry with fancy degrees and no jobs.
It's kinda not really the older generations, though, it's more capitalism. Where does that start and end?
Wait, the problem in your mind with China is that it's not as safe for multinational companies to exploit their populace?
China’s own megaconglomerates aren’t doing any better. They openly steal from their populace, and exploit their workers in inhumane ways. Just look at the mass embezzlement of peoples life savings in the housing market by ultra mega sized publicly traded corporations. China is basically a hyper capitalist corporatocracy, with extra authoritarianism sprinkled in with no upside.
Agreed that the problem is capitalism, but I don't know about "no upside." The poverty rate in China has continually decreased. While we in the west might argue that living under authoritarian rule might not be worth the tradeoff, that certainly is an upside.
Although this only works when you're not living a minimal existence, paycheck-to-paycheck.
The next step will be to pay them less.
Damn, I'd be sore after laying flat for months.
GLOBAL GENERAL STRIKE, A BLOB CAN DREAM.
I really enjoyed this story format. It showed the strength of photographic journalism
EDIT: i present to you: the duality of humanity.
I was confused how I was supposed to read it. I just got a single image and a piece of text that says "tap story", which doesn't mean anything.
Well it's the same format as Twitch, Instagram, Snapchat, etc. stories
Twitch? The streaming platform?
Yes. Streamers can post stories now
On Twitch?
Why???
let it all rot
Warms my heart to see the youth choosing to walk the Rebel Path.
Late stage capitalism is a blight of humanity, there's gotta have to be some sort of revolutionary changes to society at the rate this is all headed. The world is not healthy right now.
I'm pretty sure we're watching society slowly collapse.
Can a Chinese speaker clarify something? "Let it rot" in other sources is 摆烂 (Bải làn) which translates as "showed away" When I translate "let it rot" I get either 让它腐烂 (simplified) or 讓它腐爛.
What's the difference? How does showed away become let it rot?
This is another case of a foreign word don't have a good translation in English (and vise versa). Both 摆烂 and 让它腐烂 don't have the same tone as "let it rot".
To me, "let it rot" means watching something collapse with a sense of enjoyment. I cannot recall a Chinese word with this exact sentiment of the top of my head. But I can try to explain both Chinese words.
"让它腐烂" is the literal translation of "let it rot", word for word. It don't have the cultural and sentimental meaning behind it, merely stating the fact. More like "let the leave rot in the compost pile".
"摆烂" is probably what the article is referring to. Its meaning is similar to civil disobedience, and 躺平 ("lay flat", another word that was popular couple years ago).
"摆" means put, "烂" means something poorly made, broken, etc. "摆烂", together as a word, means "displaying a broken (bad) attitude, no matter the outside influence". However, "烂" also means rot, which is probably where the translation "let it rot" came from.
The original usage is much more playful, like your cat would lay on the floor no matter what toy or treat you give it, then it is 摆烂. But with the recent increase in pressure for many young people in China. 摆烂 and 躺平 (lay flat) become more of a act of civil disobedience and refusal to participate in the broken system/economy.
So 摆烂 is not a exact translation for "let it rot", but they do share the meaning of "no action" and the sentiment of joy. And "let it rot" sounds much cooler and concise than my explanation.
Hey I just wanted to say thank you for the breakdown. The intricacies of translation are interesting.
Ditto. Respect for anyone who not only knows two languages well enough to explain one in the other, but is willing to share that knowledge.
Thank you for your kind message. China is my cultural root, and both its culture and language are of great importance to me.
I was very active on r/translator before I left reddit. It is my great joy to see that I still have opportunity here to convey Chinese cultures to kind strangers on lemmy.
Is there a Lemmy community for that?
I would love to have one, but I have yet to find an alternative.
Could you create one?
I can, but unfortunately, I dont have much will to organize it...
Thank you for the commentary. I figured there was some cultural and lingual baggage that was the difference.
The article title sounded like they were letting the system rot, but if they're laying flat then the metaphor is that the people are laying and rotting? Or did I misunderstand
That is what I mean when I say there is no exact translation.
摆烂 doesn't mean see the system collapse, merely displaying the lack of interest to participate. So the speaker is displaying the 烂 (bad attitude, rot), not the system. I believe 摆烂 is more akin to "civil disobedience" or "quit quitting", than "let it rot" (if anything, it is closer to the literal meaning of "let me rot").
I want to make it more clear in my original comment, but I was afraid it would be too verbose and distract the reader.
I also read that as "quiet quitting". Would you try to translate that from English to Chinese could cause all kinds of linguistic issues.
Would "just throw the whole thing away" (as in throw it into the trash) be a more fitting translation for the sentiment than "let it rot" then?
Not exactly, 摆烂 is more mischievous noncompliance (like we typically think of a lazy cat), than confrontational sabotage.
But "throw it all away" certainly conveys the message well enough. It is quite common to have word in one language that dont have a exact match in another language. Even in European languages, let along between Chinese and English, which are widely different.
Interesting! Thank you for the insight, I've always loved the topic of direct translation vs contextual translation ever since I dove into it in a Contemporary Japanese Literature course in college
Fuck the rat race all over.
Funny, people in the USA have been doing that for 20+ years
Tune in, turn on, burn out
Weirdly TikTok only shows me streets full with fentinels in USA. I don't know if that's propaganda or is it real bad out there
Propaganda. Every city has one or two neighborhoods (usually full of working class minorities) where police dump the homeless and addicts from everywhere else. Each of those areas has one or two particularly bad streets that look like shit and make for great fear mongering.
At the risk of sounding like propaganda myself... Just because you don't witness poverty and crime doesn't mean it is propaganda. US has a major homeless and drug epidemic that is getting worse. It is easy for those with money to put it out of sight and ignore it.
I'm visiting China for the first time right now for 2 weeks and I must say I'm very impressed with how clean the cities are and the lack of homeless and drug addicts.
In the US my old house in OKC has been broken into twice by homeless and my parent's house in Miami twice as well, and their car stolen twice. Walking to work in Brooklyn, people are literally sleeping on the sidewalks under trash bags every night as everyone walks past like they aren't there.
Even in my my home town in Vermont, population under 10,000, there are always homeless people out in the cold begging and sleeping in tents in the woods. These people have given up on life, or given bad luck, or addicted to drugs.
I haven't seen any of that in China so far. Sure there are some areas outside the city centers that are more depressing looking, lack much personality, and have run down buildings but at least everyone has a home, a job, and is taken care of. People here seem to have more respect for themselves and for others. It is part of the culture here.
Everyone I talk to here says it is incredibly safe. In fact, today I saw my first 2 police cars on the highway for the first time a week into my trip. And we've been driving an average of 3 hours per day everywhere between Shenzhen and ChengDu. There are many cameras everywhere but there isn't a need for hundreds of police to patrol the streets non-stop like in every city in the US.
Oh there is absolutely poverty. I'm specifically referencing what the commenter above me was discussing, which is a trend on social media of finding a bad area of town, taking pictures from 40 different angles, and presenting it as though American cities are nothing but miles upon miles of tent encampments and despair. I will admit I have only ever lived in the rust belt, so it may very well be like that in other places, but in general you see one or two small areas of extreme poverty mixed with working class, a few rough-ish neighborhoods adjacent to those, and the rest is pretty quiet, if not always the most affluent. By your description, it sounds like Chinese law enforcement keeps closer tabs on people through mass surveillance rather than active patrolling. Personally I'd rather have more crime and fewer government CCTVs, but to each their own.
Side note: here at the airport you check your flight information by just walking up to a screen and it uses facial recognition to instantly pull up your flight information, gate, seat, etc. lol. Completely different comfort level with cameras here haha....
100% propaganda. Since Andrew Callaghan did his good faith SF video, every nut in the country in need of a haircut grabs their camera and shitty mic to go do bad gonzo journalism from skid row in order to dunk on people experiencing hell. Or worse, clout chase off of people experiencing hell.
They just like me fr
Great phrase, much more impact than quiet quit. I have plenty of sympathy for them, though that dipped substantially when one of the people they profiled became a "certified life coach" oh my god.
Quiet quit was always the establishment's phrase anyway.
They made it up to spread a manufactured panic about people rationally refusing to do more than their contracts say for no more than their contract pay.
Actual article:
https://archive.ph/bu1kA
Fuck that's so much better.
I thought this was kind of an old meme by now? I seem to remember it being reported on in english media by the late 2010's, like 2018/2019, and the half-life of memes is pretty bad anyways + I would assume english media would get around to these things somewhat after they'd been spent anyways.My bad, I was thinking of "躺平", lying flat, as mentioned in the article.
In any case I think there's definitely like, an element of this reporting that is, you know, relatively obvious in the amount of bias. You might compare this to, say, if china reported on like, growing incel movements, or something, as evidenced by the spread of andrew tate. Or, maybe better, the quiet quitting movement. They're not technically incorrect, and those are pretty significant problems, but it's also, you know, there's a reason why they're choosing to report on that, and not like. I dunno, something else. Say, toxic work culture. Sigma male grindsets. The total inverse, you will rarely see reported on by, you know, the fucking wall street journal. I have a skepticism for the motives of the media, is basically all I'm saying. I agree with the memes though the chinese government and chinese society et large kind of blows chunks, similarly faulted as is most of modern society broadly.
This message keeps being spread. Wonder how significant it is or if it's like a handful and propagandists are making it out to be a trend?
This was one of my first thoughts on this too. Reminds me a bit of those western millennial/GenZ articles that are blown way out of proportion
Regardless I hope the governmental response is steering towards a bright solarpunk future of abundance and a healthy ecosystem to regain relevance for the next generation. Further encroachment of authoritarianism to maintain power and further alienate their smart kids doesn't help anyone long-term
I hope the same for all governments, really
It is as much a trend as "quit quitting" is a trend. To the point Chinese official media has written several articles urging people to not 摆烂 (aka "let it rot")
Crazy when an authoritarian country like China that can just execute people when they don't stay on message, get way off message and say shit like this. Boomer's who bitch about people not wanting to work anymore, this lets me truthfully respond with "even with a gun to their head, today's hopeless work is probably worse than death"
Edit: Looks like I pissed off some tankies, too bad fuckers, China is an evil country with black souled sons of bitches at the helm, and that's as an American with even more disgusting darker souled miserable sons of bitches at the helms of our branches of government. Get real and get over it. Xi is a Winnie the Pooh looking CUNT that can go fuck himself!!!!
China is a authoritarian country, but it doesn't have the resource and political will to capture and kill every person that doesn't align with CCP.
Things can get pretty ugly (like death, torture, or removal of livelihood) for strong anti-governmental message, like bridgeman; significant public figure expressing dissent (even as a joke), like Bi Fujian, the host of the most popular variety show; or significant public event like wuyi (乌衣), Quanmei, and other activist in the chained woman incident.
But Chinese government is not going to kill someone for saying "I am so fucking overworked". Arrest for telling the story to foreign media (which obviously is neither humane nor legal, I am not trying to defend CCP), maybe, but not worth any more serious punishment.
One of the things I learned reading Three Body Problem is that their police problems mirror the US a lot more than either country might realize. One of the characters is a cop who knows he's supposed to act a certain way in investigations, but doesn't give a shit. In other words, there's an expectation that their police respect certain civil liberties, but they often don't. Which is basically what happens in the US.
That book was originally published in 2008, though, and since then, Xi Jinping has been pushing things back to being more explicitly authoritarian. Oh, and the author has made some statements in support of that, so that's great.
Schroedinger's Communist:
It's a fascist dictorship, and only as powerful as it's enforcers are loyal.
If things get bad, it can collapse overnight.
"This polygon has three sides, but it's still a triangle."
More like:
Love how y'all hate anti lockdown protesters in USA but cheer them on in China.
Um. In the U.S. I could still go for a walk outside, or out to the grocery store, or grab some fast-food at the drive-through. In China people were being boarded up in their homes... as in, literally boarded up with hammer and nails.
And solders https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1703503427818
The anti-lockdown protest, later known as A4 revolution was triggered by Ürümqi fire where the firetruck was unable to reach the scene because no one dare to leave their residence to move their parked cars.
As a side note, A4 protest started as a single female student holding a piece of white paper in Nanjing Communication College for a entire day in solitude (the man in the picture is allegedly a teacher of the college, taking away her white paper)
and many other students joining her later in the night
Later the A4 (or "white paper") symbolism extended to the entire globe as a pillar against oppression and censorship. We should all remember this brave young lady.
News with videos (google translate): https://chinadigitaltimes-net.translate.goog/chinese/690159.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
Wikipedia article on A4 revolution also mentioned her:
Nonworkers if the world unite!
There’s also the after-translation term of laying flat
Almost as if China is no exception...
Good shit. Proud of them.
I hate the Chinese government with the heat of a thousand suns, but I love the actual people of China equally. They have been completely fucked over by the Cultural Revolution and deserve much better.
I think a lot of people got rated by a username?
lol what the fuck is this “article”? A picture book ffs
You've never encountered photojournalism?! I know they are cutting budgets for photographers but that seems sad to me.
A new media for the new generation. In an era of ever-growing flow of information, it's only natural pieces are more and more condensed and visual. That's how we got here.
It reads like it's a book for middle school students.
I disagree, I feel like this is an attempt to inject emotion and empathy into a topic that usually garners hostility. Think of the people usually reading The Wallstreet Journal: it's not anyone young you imagine, perhaps someone with terms like "commies" still in lingo from the 70s and 80s?
I read this as an attempt to humanize a group that their target audience would usually alienate. The photos help with generating those emotions.
This is not correct. Young people have stopped doing typical 9-5 jobs but started businesses and are highly successful.
man im a commie but that was funny
F off. They own half my street here and most landlords are in their 20s.
I have a theory that part of this is due to the dying out of religion as a way to keep the masses in line.
China is a communist country, they purposefully repressed religion for quite some time, though that has eased up a lot these days. If that was why, it would have happened decades ago when people stopped being religious.
Ahh yes. Lemmy's favorite. Another "China bad" article. This is the same shit as "no one wants to work anymore". Non news, ignore this shit.
This is not a "China bad" article. You might want to read it, for a change.
I don't need to read shit from wall street journal
This is becoming a real perennial story, from what I gather the lay flat movement isn't really very significant it's probably less influential in China than incels are here, or a smaller niche that's harder to think of - maybe like the nofap community or something. Big in some weird online spaces but pretty much unheard of out of it.
It's an interesting one, kinda like Ken Keasy but without the acid.
My question is why do you keep connecting it to sex
Sigma grind set or virgin for life, no in between
Afaik those are usually the same thing lmao
Indeed. In the elevated male fandom, the Sigma is the one who abandons all thoughts of women to focus on the grind and his version of success. The Chad is the one who gets the girls
I'm not connecting it to sex I'm using them as examples of groups that if this was a Chinese forum we might be reading about and thinking they're significant but were we to then ask a random American most wouldn't have even heard of them and those that have would almost universally tell you are meaningless and not taken seriously.
When using one thing as an example of a certain facet of something it's generally understood that the other aspects aren't important - the sun is round like a cricket ball doesn't imply it's the same size or that it's used for sport.
I'm guessing because it's a big carrot with equally dismal prospects and even when it's achieved it's not really so glamorous as advertised.
Thanks for making me google Ken Keasy lol. I liked Cuckoos nest. I had no idea the author was an Army psychedlic test subject and worked in a psyciactric ward
Could you clarify how it's like Ken Keasy?
PS -why you getting downvoted so hard? Due to lack of references or something?
I was thinking of Leary's tune in, drop out kinda thing and Keasy was a big part of that movement.
And the downvoting is probably because they want to belive this is a big thing in China because it would go towards the view they want to be true, but the reality is cccp is hugely popular and the obsessive work ethic is still a driving force.