Microsoft starts testing ads in the Windows 11 Start menu

ForgottenFlux@lemmy.world to Technology@lemmy.world – 609 points – Microsoft starts testing ads in the Windows 11 Start menu
theverge.com

The software maker will use the Recommended section of the Start menu, which usually shows file recommendations, to suggest apps from the Microsoft Store.

165

Well, of course. I mean it's not like you paid for a Microsoft Windows license when you bought your computer, so obviously they have to advertise to financially support it. If you're getting something for free, you're the product.

...

...

...

Wait, I'm being told that when people buy computers with Windows installed, they are, in fact, paying for a Windows license, too.

So this is actually Microsoft trying to turn products they've already sold into continuous revenue streams at the cost of usability and customer happiness.

In other news, apropos of nothing in particular, Steam on Linux is working really well these days, with lots of AAA titles running just fine via Proton. Make of that what you will...

Kernel level anticheat for a few games is the only real speedbump I'm aware of, and it's only on a couple of game franchises like CoD I think. I would love it a ton of people made the switch and it hurt those games' companies revenue noticeably enough that they look for a way to moderate cheating without just lazily requiring Windows in order to play online.

Linux is finally convenient enough to realistically steal swaths of customers from Microsoft, and it's at the same time that Windows 11 is pissing a ton of people off. We're in for some strange times.

"Kernel-level anti-cheat" is just company talk for rootkit. I'll pass.

I doubt that it reliably stops DMA boards anyway.

I posted this in another thread but it doesn't, DMA boards are capable of spoofing other PCIE device IDs which was one of the few ways vanguard used to detect DMA boards. Realistically the only anti cheat that actually works are replay based community voted convictions such as counter strike's overwatch.

There are way too many games out there for me to care anymore. Once i build my new PC, its Linux only. If it doesn't run on Linux, I don't need to play it.

I’m also looking forward to when game companies try to add kernel level anti cheat to Linux/s

Honestly, the big deal isnt Linux getting better (it has. Slowly.) But windows enshittifying so hard.

Love a windows feature you just can't let go for Linux? Better find a way to prevent system updates, or it could vanish overnight!

that they look for a way to moderate cheating without just lazily requiring Windows in order to play online.

I would avoid those kernel level malwares anticheat anyways, whether they're for Windows or if they port them to Linux ("to run this game, please load this kernel module"... no thanks).

Generally People don't give a shit. Ive learned you gotta use the same tactics as windows and shove it in their face. My parents think they have been using windows for over a year now but I secretly installed Linux mint on their systems made it look like windows. They haven't even fucking noticed they only use a browser for emails and Facebook. When my friends ask me to help build their PC and bring a windows os I bring a Linux os and say its all I will install and troubleshoot

That's pretty valid. They can still defile their shit if they want.

I had thoughts along these same lines the first time I fired up a Linux Mint VM last year. The most basic computer users would have their experience enhanced by being stuck with a system they “don’t know.” They can do all the same browser based activities on a system that’s probably more responsive and more stable.

Yeah I don't see it being any different then them using windows they were already stuck with a system they didn't know. And now their computer will last much longer as well

The point about longevity is a great one too. I mean what’s the best thing to do with a crappy old laptop? Install Linux and make it useful for something!

Genuinely a great day for linux

I wish this was true...

...but there's still a few technical issues that keep things from running smooth.

Also, VR.

I mean, yeah, a few, but there are plenty with Windows too, and the overwhelming majority of games I've tried it with work fine.

I play VR on Linux, it works surprisingly well, especially via Wayland. There's an app called Envision that sets up basically everything you need for you. Unlike a few years ago, I had to do no fiddling, it just works.

I have a Quest 2.

I do too. Envision has an option to install "WiVRn" which I found worked way better than ALVR.

I can't build an Envision profile in Bazzite, several source code packages don't exist.

For that the recommendation is ALVR

Which I have already tried - it don't Wayland, and I get legendary stuttering when moving about. No go.

Are you using Nvidia, if so that might be why I am running it just fine on an AMD gpu on wayland using Nobara

So you bought proprietary windows hardware and youre upset it doesn't have good enough performance? Seems short sighted but okay.

I bought what was affordable on the used market. And VR stuff is almost entirely Windows exclusive, with only the Index having a native Linux compatibility via the recent SteamVR Linux port. While the Quest series (and a Pico, its Chinese competitor) run a special version of Android, they don't have the performance in standalone mode that a PC has. Besides, my library of VR games are all on the PC.

And before you say "you shold have Index", I will point out the very, very high cost and requirement for external tracking hardware, aka "the lighthouse", something I lack the space for.

Maybe vr just isnt affordable yet? If its proprietary garbage, it's just not yours. Lock-in is bullshit, and freedom sometimes requires sacrifice-even of toys and treats.

We're not paying for the updates, though. I don't recall paying Microsoft for anything in ages, and I have a legit copy of windows 10 installed.

To most people, now that windows is mostly stable, there's no draw to upgrade when a new major version comes out. Why volunteer for new os growing pains when the last Gen works great? Even more so if you have to buy another license.

who would click that

who clicks ads in general

have you ever clicked an ad (on purpose)

I have never, not once in my life, clicked on an internet or electronic ad. Even for things I'm ostensibly interested in. Jury's out on just how much manically SEO optimized retail web sites on Google count as "ads," I guess. But other than that: Zilch.

But someone somewhere must be clicking on them because billions of dollars are spent every year pushing the fucking things.

I'm so skewed this direction that I'll scroll past the sponsored version of the link in a Google search to click on the exact, unsponsored version. I don't know why.

There’s been malware pretending to be legit links that get pushed to the top by being sponsored links. It’s a great idea to never click on sponsored links.

Some marketers believe it doesn't matter if someone clicks as brand recognition has its own value. On the other hand, who hasn't heard of Tiktok by now?

Of course marketers believe that, because it's their job to give their clients hype hope.

Middle management usually wants to hear about conversions this quarter and especially ROI, not mindshare.

I've seen Proton services mentioned so much here and in communities such as selfhosted that I went to their website today to check what they offer.

Proton is a linuxtool for game compatibility.nothing to do with the web company.

Which supposedly offers security but falls all over themselves sucking the dick of any security service willing to notice them.

I've only ever clicked on one ad and that was for a cloud host I thought would be cheaper than Vultr. If anyone knows a managed k8s cluster cheaper than Vultr let me know plz.

Go into app or play store and sort by most downloaded. They're pretty exclusively a list of games and apps that you find advertised.

I'm my circle, people are seeming to become more willing to admit they got something from an ad. I feel like there used to be shame behind it

The most frequent lately has been women buying their clothes from Instagram ads. The argument they have made is that they see SO MANY ads, the one they choose to spend money on was because they wanted it and that apparently is a solid vetting process. But this is people in my sphere, I dunno if it's a thing.

I used a Google TV stick and for sick of the bullshit ads and switched to a simple launcher. In reddit and lemmy threads, there are always highly up voted people who are happy to get "popular recommendations".

The generality, I feel like, is people are busy living their lives, don't want to research and learn about everything in their life, and just go with what they see.

It’s gotten really difficult to research products, speaking as someone who does a lot of it, so I don’t think it’s about not wanting to do it.

Go look for something like a good dehumidifier and it’s all seo-optimized bullshit barely hiding that it’s advertisements for cheap Chinese junk on Amazon. And nearly every link is like that. For pages upon pages worth of results.

It’s so so difficult to judge what’s actually legit info and what isn’t. So I don’t blame people for asking other humans for what worked for them. You almost kinda have to unless you know of good legit review sites for every product you might want or need.

Tbh instagram is the only place I click all the ads. All because they're so god damned weird.

I never buy anything though.

What they're told to want. Wonderful. Won't ever be nefarious.

If I found out, say, my partner or a close friend clicked on ads, I would lose some respect for them.

I right click them and then in the drop down menu that appears I click "block element..."

I've never clicked an ad on purpose. I use DNS to block all the common click thru domains for ads.

This move by Microsoft will undoubtedly result in more Windows PCs infected by malware as people find tools to remove the ads and some of those tools will turn out to be malware.

Windows is malware, they can't turn off the keylogger or telemetry

I have on search results, but it was for something that I was already looking for. The ad had the same link to the web page as the result below. 🤷‍♂️

I intentionally skip these and click the normal link right below it lol. I also realized that I have clicked these in the past by accident because they don't load... Since I block ads

That's what they are testing. Hopefully you are just being silly. People click ads a lot, that's why there are so many and it's a multi billion dollar industry. They work.

noone ever does -- Microsoft, Google and Facebook must be faking their reports on how effective their advertisement platforms are in order to boost their sales. the sales of ads, not the advertised products

Not once. I did willingly click on a sponsor link from a YT video once tho, it was for a rice cooker. I ended up getting a different one, but still.

Ads were already there for years - for Facebook, TikTok, Candy Crush, and who knows what else.

I would say this is embarrassingly unprofessional, but the truth is this is just normal these days - normalized by Facebook and Android - and I'm just old and used to better software.

I switched to Linux the same year they appeared.

Microsoft is the school bully who keeps shoving you and saying: "what are you gonna do about it?"

Risk toying in the registry to kill it, of course 🏴‍☠️

i've been testing not using windows ever again. since 2004.

it's great.

How long until we get 10sec unskippable ad on bootup, please make it fast Micro$oft.

I already basically get that half the time I boot into windows after an update. They say “let’s finish setting up your PC” and try to get you to pay for one drive, office, even game pass.

I’m so glad gaming on Linux has gotten to such a good state. I barely ever boot into windows now. (The “ad” on boot up is probably only once every few months, but that’s about as often as I boot into windows).

Linux never looked so good!

agreed. Now is the time to visit the linux community and figure out how to get started.

Linux Mint is a good distro to try out!

Personally I would suggest Fedora with KDE.

It seems to me more robust with hardware support, it's indirectly backed by a major company, it gets updates often to stay compatible for gaming, and one click gets you proprietary drivers/software support.

This. Then if you want to expand your horizons, OpenSUSE.

Yeah starting with Mint and then go further if you want to makes sense.

100% agree been using Linux for 15 years and will never stop plus once you learn everything there is to know about how Linux works if something breaks odds are you can fix it yourself or report it with logs faster if you contribute your self as well.

Ah finally, Windows and Cheap chinese android phone have something in common. Ads in their built in bloatwares apps.

Cheap chinese All android phone

All android phone

Not Fairphones. Fairphones are ad-free, bloatware-free and privacy-focused.

FP4 user here. while that is true, any android ROM with google services on it isn't privacy-focused.

but i don't want to miss out on clash of clans, so here i am using their bullshit spyware.

Their mission is amazing but I'm not going to sit here and pretend any Google-laden Android isn't also ad-laden.

The Murena Fairphones in the U.S. are de-googled. They have replacements for pretty much everything, including email. You can import your google contacts. You can import your google calendar into the de-googled calendar and access it from app or web just like the google version. The only google stuff on my fairphone is what I put on it myself. And I can still download and run every app on the google play store if I choose.

Murena Fairphone

That's awesome, never heard of this! I was referring to the stock Fairphones, which are absolutely Google-filled. But if someone is reselling them with all that crap stripped then that project is for sure worthy of recognition.

I would not say all some of us run Graphene OS with Google Play Services stripped from Android.

Well, that's fair. You're an absolutely miniscule minority of Android users though

That is very true indeed but my battery lasts for 2 days though because of it so I'll call that a win.

Where do the battery gains come from?

I'm guessing it's a combination of general optimizations, Google Play services & store not having the same level of background and network capabilities, and more control over background apps in general.

OK. I have no google services running but do not get amazing battery. Its probably because I have a couple of messaging apps awake in the background though. I tried self-hosting push notifications but didn't get it working reliably.

This is what I do I self host pretty much most of my services.

Cool, what's your setup for push notifications? I do too but reached a stumbling block with push notifications, gave up and have been doing without them since. Not great for my phone's battery life probably...

So google play services on android along with Google store are installed in the root system the can basicly do whatever the want permission wise play services is always running in the background and is a huge battery drain by not having it installed at all you are gaining more battery life.

Tbh so does my stock Xiaomi. I don't have a google account on it though.

Consider most recent offering from china does not have Android One option, this statement is true. Few years ago Xiaomi sell several of their line up with Android One variant that strictly only contain Google Apps only.

As long as your phone have snapdragon soc, most likely the community have made custom rom for that model. But if you want something more hardened out of the box like GrapheneOS, you're out of luck.

I’m ok with promoted spots in a store, but in the core OS UI, fuck that.

This actually touches on a major issue with digital content and software as a service compared to the old models, that people don't seem to quite grasp.

It used to be you'd walk into a store, buy a thing, and leave. Businesses could only sell to you while you're in the store. There was a clear delineation.

What we've seen over the last couple decades is the increasing invasion of the store into your home. These businesses don't want you to ever leave the store. You are meant to be living in it, at all times. There can never be any true escape unless you disconnect from the internet and disengage with modern technology.

I agree in general, but would like to point out that it is possible to escape. Not completely, but I have managed to set up an environment where it's mostly fine. And by mostly fine I mean not perferct, but using somebody else's device makes my eye twitch.

Don’t worry, I’m sure there will be “pro” version that you can pay extra for no ads.

This isn't an ad, it's a suggested result from one of our partners

How sure?

For how long?

Until there is a 'pro max' version

Unlimited teir, please give us full access to your bank account to stop seeing ads, sorry telemetry CAN NOT be turned off

“Microsoft has been experimenting with ads inside Windows for more than 10 years.”

*sigh*

With Windows 10, you had much more control over the start menu. Windows 11 is further eroding control. That's why they absolutely refuse to allow you to disable the Recommended section.

The ability to disable it is present in the OS, but it's restricted to Enterprise versions. Disabling an unneeded and annoying UI element is a Premium feature now. And as everyone said when they made that clear a few months ago, "that's where the ads will go".

They'll probably let you disable them, at least for now. But the fact you can't disable the place for the ads is telling. We'll see how they feel about letting you disable those ads in a few years.

Microsoft recommends the recommended section.

I recommend Linux

(Sorry)

thats been happening since win10

get linux if you are that bothered about this

And yet, I haven't seen it once on any of my computers 🤷

That's the magic of setting up a local account instead of a Microsoft account and actually turning shit off during the install sequence instead of just mindlessly clicking next. That said, I'm not sure you can do first time setup on Win11 with a local account. I know Win10 made it harder later on than on release. You can still set one up after the fact, but I'm not sure how useful it is on 11 since I refuse to install it.

You can skip the MS account, but it takes effort.

Do NOT connect to the internet, or you're hosed and will have to start over.

SHIFT+F10 to get a command prompt.

cd oobe

bypassnro

It'll reboot and now you'll have options to skip the MS account for a "limited experience". Once you get a desktop, connect to the internet.

Man windows sounds complicated. Why do you have to open a terminal and do weird hacky workarounds for things

Not even 'for things' just to kinda own your own computer that you paid for (til they patch that)

You also choose an English (international) as your language, to avoid the preinstalled crapware in the start menu.

You can, it's just got a lot of hoops to jump through. Easier in the pro version for work, but I just set the email to a@a.a and then it errors out before letting you make a local account.

Also doing the setup as if your location is in Europe, you can still use the time zone and keyboard you want

its on any default windows 10 install. unless you modded it.

recently reinstalled win10 pro, located in europe using a local account.

haven't seen any yet.

Yeah, I had a recommendation to install the TikTok app in my Start Menu. It’s what moved me to Linux once and for all.

yeah especially since now they are blocking the apps that disable that stuff

My windows 10 doesn't have ads. Can it be disabled in 11 as well I wonder?

they disabled the apps that did recently afaik.

i got tired of turning ads off on win10 and updates turning them on again.

That's why I disabled updates in the registry after they updated me to windows 11. They can take my windows 10 when the sun dies and I will switch back to Linux, again.

Again?

It wasn't real the first time, so I'm going to assume this isn't real, either.

The Linux fans keep making shit up, so I no longer trust them.

It was real the first time it just didn't get past the test audience. Now MS is fine tuning the ads and trying to find a balance subtle enough to avoid a full on riot. They'll get it worked out don't worry just consume

How was it not real? Why are you blaming a tiny fraction of desktop users for the actions of an incredibly greedy corporation known to pull this shit? So strange

the next logical step is 10s ads before launching any program

Please pay $10 to skip the ads

That's included with your gold tier Microsoft 365 subscription. Also there's tiers now.

-Microsoft, probably

Windows is becoming more of a shit show everyday, comically so. Glad I finally installed Linux Mint today. I've used Windows exclusively up until now and just quit cold turkey, putting Mint on my daily driver. I was hesitant to upend my computer habits by swapping OS, but I should have done this ages ago. I'm sure I'll run into some kind of issue sooner than later, but I'll take a technical problem over one manufactured by a corporation's greed any day.

I made the transition to Linux Mint at the beginning of the year. I just booted into Windows the other day and saw that it had been six weeks since the last time.

One of the most hated features of Windows 10 and they removed it just to add it back later lmao. They deffo had this planned all along and knew it would hurt their already terrible upgrade rates if they added it from the start

Just moved away from Windows 11 to Nobara. Enough is enough.

How's that fairing? I'll be switching once the last few games I care about get support, but as someone new to Linux with a NVIDIA card I'm feeling a little lost.

Lemmy likes to say Nobara is great for gaming but Mint is great for newcomers, and I really don't want to have to come home and tinker with my PC after work.

I did the install yesterday, I'll know in time. I'm not the most extreme gamer, I am not interested in competitive gaming or bleeding edge tech spec games. I think that's where you see the most backlash to Linux for gaming. I will definitely be chiming in with my experience here on Lemmy.

Interesting how most comments state gaming is the only thing pushing linux adoption back. May be true... for gamers.

But yeah, granny probably wouldn't notice Mint if all she does is browser the web.

Granny doesn't need a PC anymore. That's what's hurting Microsoft more than anything and why they're desperate to generate more Windows revenue.

Smartphones and tablets have eliminated the need for 3 PCs per household. Linux is growing in market share, but that has more to do with the number of new Windows machines decreasing than a massive growth in Linux.

put my parents on a auto update and locked down Ubuntu after having to repair their malware ridden laptop for the thousands time. Haven't heard a complaint in 2 years now, all they do is login and click the Firefox logo anyway.

they really are trying to fuck themselves over, aren't they?

i'm gonna switch as soon as game devs realize linux needs anticheat support.

and i know a lot of people who don't care what operating system they run as long as they can use their web browser on it.

Do any windows users remember in like 2019 when they had the offline search in the start menu that was such a beast? It could find anything inside the contents of any document on the computer almost instantaneously, use booleans, search metadata and everything. We had no idea at the time that was peak start menu. It's all been downhill.

This is why I use Start11

Why are companies obsessed with adverts. They ruin the UX, they annoy users, and frankly, if i see an advert in something im trying to enjoy, at this point, it makes me actively not want to buy whatever is being sold.

When adverts fill the peripheral or are unintrusive, they are acceptable. When they interrupt the flow of what i am doing, i want to burn them.

I appreciate that they are how we make things free, but there is a point where they tip the balance of being worth it into the negative. And frankly, adverts in my OS are way over the line. I'd rather pay for windows 11 than use it with adverts. Perhaps its time for me to join a large number of my fellow lemmings and use linux.

Ugly traitors.

Microsoft has literally never been anything close to a good company for their entire existence. This doesn't even make the top 10 for anti-consumer MS bullshit.

That's it, someone either needs to come up with an adblocker for this or i'm actually forced to move to linux.

I hop this kills windowd, i really do.

This is the best summary I could come up with:

The software maker will use the Recommended section of the Start menu, which usually shows file recommendations, to suggest apps from the Microsoft Store.

“This will appear only for Windows Insiders in the Beta Channel in the US and will not apply to commercial devices (devices managed by organizations),” says Microsoft in a blog post.

The app promotions can be disabled in the Settings section of Windows 11, but it appears that Microsoft will enable these by default.

Microsoft is seeking feedback on the changes, so it’s possible the company could decide to ditch these ads in development builds of Windows 11 if there’s enough feedback that suggests they’re not going to be a popular addition.

Microsoft started testing ads inside the File Explorer of Windows 11 last year before disabling the experiment in beta versions of Windows 11.

Microsoft has been experimenting with ads inside Windows for more than 10 years.

The original article contains 222 words, the summary contains 152 words. Saved 32%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

People who use windows probably don't mind even. Everyone who uses windows at my workplace just gets used to the shit and don't think about it.

The tech savvy find or develop workarounds, at least, and we share our findings with the people we love