They don't understand that Trump is just as pro-Israel as Biden, if not even more so considering he moved the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.
That's the great part about our democracy: You don't get to vote for someone who isn't pro-Israel. Because freedom.
*electoral system
Because of FPTP and the Winner Take All Electoral College, there is a lot of political pressure to only have 2 parties. In a better system (proportional, ranked choice, etc) it wouldn't break with more than two parties. In fact just reforming the electoral college to be proportional would likely allow 3 parties to exist.
If you look at history the last time there was a viable 3rd party it possibly initiated the civil war by allowing an anti slavery viewpoint to exist (which is good, but if we'd had a better voting system it would have happened earlier and reduced a lot of suffering)
Congress is bipartisan pro-Israel. This isn't even a presidential issue.
Biden just happens to be the guy doing the pro-Israel stuff at the moment, so he's eating the lions share of the public ire.
"You have to support the Pro-Israel guy because the other guy is pro-Israel and both party leaders are pro-Israel and the cops are trained by Israelis and Israeli businesses have strong ties with the MIC and Big Finance needs Israel to control trade through the Suez and you're outnumbered and outgunned so quit fighting, just vote for Joe Biden" just isn't a winning message among progressive voters this year.
Maybe try it again in 2026.
My company buys a specific board from an Israeli company.
We have been working on an in house alternative for a few years now. Now we're scared to actually perform the switch because of the anti-boycott laws
The thing is: Biden is pro-Israel but also pro-Palestinians. He's providing aid to Gazans and pressuring Israel to minimize civilian casualties. It's not great, or even good, I agree - but it's a whole lot better than Trump who would be pro-Israel and anti-Palestinians. You'd see humanitarian aid end and the US support total war instead of the (slightly) restrained version we're seeing now.
Right now it seems like the Biden Administration is trying to pressure Israel not to launch a military assault on Rafah and to allow in more humanitarian aid. At the same time, it has shown an unwillingness to take strong steps to punish Israel or to restrict the flow of aid or weapons to Israel if the Israelis disregard that pressure. How do you understand the strategy now?
I’d call the Biden Administration’s approach “passive-aggressive.” They are angry at Netanyahu, and were even before this. He’s presiding over the most extreme government in the history of the state of Israel. That government and the preceding dozen years of Netanyahu’s tenure are undermining the two fundamental drivers of the U.S.-Israeli relationship, which are shared values and common interests. So, it’s passive-aggressive in the sense that, six months into the war, the Administration has still been unwilling—unable—to impose a single cost or consequence that you and I, as normal human beings, would describe as real pressure.
Unable or unwilling?
Both, but I’ll get to that in a second. There were three levers the Administration could’ve pulled. They’re still available. No. 1 is to end U.S. military assistance. There’s no indication the Administration’s anywhere close to that. It just approved a shipment of two-thousand-pound bombs, and twenty F-35s. No. 2, change the U.S. voting posture at the U.N., either by introducing its own Security Council resolution, or by voting for someone else’s, that is very critical of Israel. It has not done that. No. 3, abandon the whole notion of negotiating the hostage release and simply join the chorus of those in the international community who basically say, “You need to pressure Israel to cease this military campaign.”
And I think it has not done these things
Biden is pro-Getting Relected. And he recognizes that his party is increasingly pro-Palestinian. However, his current policy appears to be a CYA strategy, intended to create the illusion of neutrality while negotiating a path that allows Israel to continue its extermination of Arab people across the region.
As this exterminationist Israeli agenda becomes more undeniable, the job of appearing neutral grows more difficult. And Biden's decision to (tacitly) back Israel at all costs means risking friendly relations with Turkyie, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. However, he's staying the course, precisely because he's banking on a mass expulsion and genocide of Palestinians today will strengthen Israel's regional position in the future.
It's especially telling that one of Biden's justification's for his support of Israel is a promise to his dying father.
Is that how politicians in a Democracy are supposed to make decisions?
If someone gives a sandwich to me and a gun to a person actively trying to murder me, they are not "pro-me"
An alternative explanation is that what he says and what he de facto does are two entirelly different things.
Being pro-Palestinian would require demanding Israel stop murdering them.
Yeah even to expand on that - they don't understand that everything they don't like about Biden, they'll like about Trump less. I mean I have real serious gripes about Biden but it is insultingly stupid to pretend that Trump would be any kind of a solution to those problems.
It seems that many of them know that Trump is worse, but think that sticking to ideals and voting for a non-viable candidate (or not voting at all) is somehow the best course of action. Republicans count on people like that to win. Fascists don't give a fuck how they get into power, as long as they do.
They don't just count on it. They actively invade spaces and spread that idea. I'm almost certain the first people saying that about Biden/Israel were right wing trolls, and people on the left actually took the bait and started spreading it themselves.
I get the sentiment, because I hate our two choices, too, but until first past the post system is changed, the lesser of two evils will always be the most practical choice.
They also seem to fervently believe:
Stop participating in 2 party system
???
Get ranked choice system
Any time you ask for details on step 2, you get an unhinged rant with zero plausibility.
My best guess, if they actually believe there's a path to a ranked choice system and aren't just being doomers, is that they think a bloody rebellion will do the trick.
Yeah, there's a lot of tankies that pretend they are progressives so they don't get laughed at outright. They'll take their masks off 10-20 comments down the thread where few people actually see.
I tend to find that the people who believe in participating in the 2 party system also do these same steps. Why would either party do away with FPTP? Neither one has any incentive to do it. At least third parties often have it listed as part of their platform and have incentive to do it because they can't easily get elected within the current system.
The way it will happen is grassroots local compaigns. Those don't have as much need for FPTP and are more likely to be politicians who care. Eventually you build up enough to change things locally, then change state laws. That might be enough there, but it can potentially be pushed further and go for a national campaign once you have enough momentum.
It won't change by the president or congress right off the bat. That's not how this sort of thing happens. I wish it were. It'd be a lot faster and simpler, but it just won't work.
What exactly is your plan for changing first past the post?
You could make the case that if the democrats actually supported that, it's worth holding your nose and voting for them in order to open up other options in the future. But they don't support it, because they benefit from it. So basically you're asking the left to keep voting for the democrats unconditionally forever while they don't address any of our concerns and refuse to make any sort of reforms that might allow us to have a voice in the future. How is that a viable path to accomplishing anything?
The plan is to keep voting in every primary for the most progressive candidates and then voting for the least bad people in elections while pushing for reform. However hard it is to enact change while Democrats are in power, it will be impossible while Republicans are.
I'll pose the same question to you: how is not voting for the least bad viable candidates, thus guaranteeing the worst candidates get into power, a viable path to accomplishing anything?
Did you not notice what the DNC did to Sanders in the last Democrat primary???!
The plan is to keep voting in every primary for the most progressive candidates
But what I'm being told over and over is if Biden cuts off support for Israel he'll lose the election. Which means moderates and liberals won't vote for a progressive candidate who makes it through the primaries leading to whatever nutjob is running on the other side.
So our reward for being pragmatic and holding our nose will be the same as voting 3rd party today.
It's just as impossible to enact reform through the Democratic party. Especially when you adopt the approach of "vote blue no matter who." The Democratic parties interests in terms of voting reform are directly contrary to the interests of voters, and will never allow it happen unless they have no other choice. If they know they can count on your support no matter, then you have forfeited whatever negotiating power you've managed to accrue.
To the extent that electoralism is worth engaging with, strategic voting as part of a bloc is the only way to make it worthwhile. The goal should be to build an organization or movement that can say, if you refuse to give into our demands, we will not vote for you and you will lose. In the short term, it might mean losing an election, but if you can demonstrate that power, then in the future you'll be able to make a credible threat of withholding votes to get what you want, and if they cooperate you won't have to follow through. If that organization is able to coordinate other actions like strikes, then all the better.
It's like this: two countries are facing a powerful invader, and the only way to fend them off is through an alliance. But country A says, "I know you need us to survive, so we demand 99% of your territory in exchange for an alliance." If country B follows the ideology of "lesser evilism," they'll agree to that, because 1% is better than 0%. But how did that happen, when country A needs the alliance just as much? Because lesser evilism is stupid and irrational. At some point you have to set a red line and say, this is the absolute minimum that I'll accept, and I'll reject anything less even if it means the deal falling through and me facing a worse outcome. And "no genocide" is decidedly inside of that line.
Republicans have lost more than one Senate seat because they ran zealous nutbag losers in safe elections and pissed off moderates.
I'm not sure why Democrats get to run pro-war Zionists and Blue Lives fascists, free from the fear that they'll suffer the same fate.
Because even though they would prefer the fascists don't get into power, the wealthy Democrat politicians know they won't be too adversely affected by it.
Well that just begs the same question about the moderates and liberals who keep them in power. Do they think this is a winning strategy?
Or they understand that all this apolgetics for the Dems being the lesser of two evils just results in them being the same evil, just four years later. The Dems are still running internment camps at the border. They are still building Trumps wall.
By never threatening them with actual consequences to their power, you give them a blanket check to fuck everyone over for their rich donors. And that is exactly what they did and continue to do.
The GOP openly courts antisemites while also supporting Israel. They make sure to have all the awful bases covered.
They need all the Jews to return to Israel and the temple to be rebuilt so Jesus can come back. Of course, that does mean expelling all Jews from every other country Jews are in, but they leave that part out.
Zionism fits neatly into the view that every country should be ethically homogenous.
It's inherently right wing
And yet so is hating Jews. Ordinarily a quandary, but the GOP lives for hypocrisy.
Hating Jews "over here".
"Over there" is fine, which is why American Racism dovetails so neatly with Zionism: both desire the same, just from different directions.
PS: I was going to say "Fascism" instead of "American Racism", but frankly if there is one thing this whole situation has made clear is that Liberals are also all about different treatment depending on a person's etnicity - as made so puignantly clear in their reaction to recent university demonstrations as well as by the very different language used in the Liberal Press when it comes to Palestinians and Israelis - so it's really just both variants of Racism in the US.
Everything they do makes sense to them... Which should tell you everything you need to know about them.
Zionism has big "go back to where you came from" vibes
And once again, as the foreign trolls that are busy courting our youth want, not one comment in this entire thread mentions that Europe is on the brink of open modernized war should Ukraine fall to vlad "Ukraine is just a stepping stone" putin.
Gaza is a genocide, but that is not the critical geopolitical stage to be paying the most attention to. Once again it is completely ignored that the heads of hamas who attacked israel on oct 7 knowing exactly what they were about to cause are friends of putin.
The Gaza genocide was provoked precisely to pull western eyes from the Ukrainian front where russia was more than underperforming to ensure their victory in a sustained war of attrition.
You want to avoid a world war? You vote for biden whether u do it proudly or do it holding ur nose the way most of the sane will.
The Gaza genocide did not start on Oct 7, much like the Russian incursion on Unkraine did not start in Jan 2022. Both of those are tremendous blights on human rights and should be equally condemned.
Of course, voting for Biden is the only stable option as much as one may lament that it shouldn't be.
If what you say is correct, then it would seem that the onus is on Israel to stop the genocide in order to save its European benefactors.
The onus to sane action is on everyone. Israel is in the wrong no matter which way u cut the pie. It does not mean that ignoring whats happening north of israel is validated bc the apartheid state is acting the way it always has.
Then the sane action is to not support and enable Israel, and not support its enablers.
If you live in the USA, you inevitably support the government. Not voting supports the greater evil, voting supports the lesser evil.
So vote, and organize anarchist enclaves, or socialist groups, or justice NGO's. Sink or swim.
Or at least Biden to reverse course and admit supporting Israel isn't worth the possibility of losing the election.
Liberals and moderates love to tell us about the choice in front of us between Biden and Trump. But they ignore the choice in front of them which is supporting Israel or losing the election.
He absolutely is more so. Also, young people have more power to influence Biden because they are part of his coalition. Of course, using this power is tricky because you need to pressure and criticize Biden without actually making him lose. So far I support the pressure campaign but I hope as the election gets closer people will start to realize what an epic disaster Trump term two would be.
He said he would level Palestine.
Not sure what these youngins are reading but he isn't coy about it.
Are young people really a part of Bidens coalition? Bidens policies and rhetoric have consistantly pushed young people away. The ridiculous speech he gave just a few minutes ago maligning student protestors is emblematic of this.
And it seems like young people have got the message. The last poll I saw had 18-24yr olds voting for Trump at +8%
Historically they have been. I think Biden seems out of touch but I’m not sure I agree with this sentiment overall. That poll sounds dubious but I mean coalitions can change certainly. Trump seems even further from the views I see most young people espousing so I’m not sure why they would move to him but maybe it’s protest vote kind of situation.
Young people are part of the coalition but they've never proven to be a reliable part. When the 18-25s vote like the older generations then campaigns will start to take their needs more seriously.
Exactly. When I was 18-25 bernie learned this. We didn’t like Hillary so we got trump.
Young voters delivered GA in 2020, and what did Dems do with that majority?
Biden immediately dropped all pretense of doing immigration reform because an unelected senate parliamentarian said no, offered no meaningful student debt relief, didn’t legalize cannabis, and is drilling for oil at record rates - more so than Trump did. Dems had yet another chance to codify Roe, and blew it. Biden even left in Louis DeJoy as postmaster general. Now he’s mischaracterizing peaceful student protesters as violent radicals, while actual thugs in riot gear and stars of david are free to descend upon them and beat them into submission.
Don’t blame young people for having eyes and ears and paying attention - Biden had his chance, and blew it in favor of his donors’ interests. It’s a tale as old as time, and if you have any interest in actually galvanizing youthful voters, you’ve got to offer something better than the outmoded views of geriatric, genocidin’ Biden.
I fucking hate, and from the bottom of my heart, how Biden is funding the genocide in Palestine, but I'm still going to vote for him this time, because we just can't have a person like Trump in the white house, period. I still can't figure out how he got in the first time. I'd never let my 10 year old lead a country, yet we let Trump do it for four fucking years.
I, too, am sick of this "the lesser of two evils" bullshit, but this time I'm giving it a pass because of Trump. We already have a crumbling country and can't afford another four years of this dude.
I don’t understand why people point out that Biden is “funding the genocide in Palestine” and completely ignore and fail to mention that trump would do the exact same thing.
He has all but said he would cut Israel loose to do whatever they needed to finish the job.
The use of Israeli aggression is not a point of comparison when viewing the differences between trump and Biden.
Edit: and I apologize for the late edit - FWIW Biden has become critical of Israeli actions and offered some aid to Palestinians (Yeah, I absolutely agree it isn’t enough) while trump would prefer to wash his hands of the whole Palestine thing. That is a notable difference.
No one denies that trump will fund it. That's not the point, but I get what you mean.
It isn’t the potential for denial that initiated my reply, it’s the fact that people declare US support of Israel is a strike against Biden when comparing Biden to trump as a reason to consider not voting for Biden. This is a false comparison and it is the point I am making.
I've argued with multiple people on here who said Trump would be better for Palestinians than Biden is.
I think Joe Biden is maybe the best president of my lifetime, and I'm going to vote for him with my head held high even though I live in a red state where it doesn't matter at all. I wish things were simpler in the Levant, but I appreciate that Joe Biden is between a rock and a hard place with Israel. It's not like he can just take Bibi out. He's not Boeing. That said, even if I laid the entire genocide at Biden's feet (which, while he's not blameless, is absolutely not appropriate), he would still be head and shoulders an improvement over Donald Trump.
For that matter, I'd absolutely let my 12 year old run this country before I'd let Trump have a second term. My kid is brilliant, and more importantly, unlike Trump he listens to advice, can take no for an answer, and gives a shit about having a functional democracy four years from now.
A second Trump term is an existential threat to the nation. Hold your nose, hold your neighbor's nose if you have to, but every able-bodied patriot owes it to their descendants and their patriotic ancestors to prevent a second Trump term.
Biden went around congress to ship weapons to Israel. Painting him as helpless here is pure misinformation.
It's not like he can just take Bibi out. He's not Boeing.
Well, he is the President of the United States. We may have to pretend Bibi is a socialist though.
Knowing my son? He absolutely is way more mature than Trump.
Ten year old?! Thats a high bar for most republicans these days. They want knee jerk and whining. Thats something most 10 year olds are already figuring out doesnt get them what they want.
That's basically my point. That, and how Trump brags that he hasn't matured past the age of six.
I’m 100% sure trump would have taken charge over there because it was taking too long.
Genocide? Hold my beer.
I still can’t figure out how he got in the first time.
When I was young my parents introduced me to some old school Communists; folks who'd fought in the Spanish Civil War and been blacklisted in the 1950s.
One of the stories they told was that back in 1968 the oldtimers were warning people to vote for Hubert Humphrey because they knew how bad Nixon would be, Too many young folks then thought 'both sides are the same.'
I don't know much about him, but reading that he lost the young people vote for supporting the Vietnam War is such a good parallel for today.
Damn, it sounds like he shouldn't have supported that war. If only people had warned him about it.
Here's a cool tidbit that's probably gonna end up in the history books.
When asked if the protests have made him reconsider his policies in the region, Biden said "no."
jesus, well this is cementing my choice to move to a deep blue state to get away from people politicizing my existence.
Assuming you're in the LGBT spectrum ... sorry to say even there you might not be safe if Trump gets a second term. Things have softened for the LGB so those folks might be okay, but trans folks ... I'd be worried.
It also weakens purple states and national power when blue voters move out of purple states... Personally, I'd highly encourage folks moving to purple states to turn them more blue.
Michigan or Pennsylvania might be a good choice. I keep holding out for Ohio, but we need to give the gerrymandering issues (hopefully we finally will this year).
As a trans person in a deep blue state, I'm hoping my state's politics give me just enough buffer time that I can find a way to GTFO before the gestapo comes for me
Yeah, nowhere is confirmed safe. Fascism is attempting to ascend. Welcome to the 1930s, get a passport and fill a backpack with non perishable calorie dense food.
Living in Ohio with my trans husband, we're moving to Vermont this summer to get away from it all. I feel like I'm shirking my duty by taking our votes with us, but we really don't want to be here come November. Ohio has gone to Trump two for two, and I'm not feeling lucky on number three.
Do what's right for you and your partner, and then we can all continue to work on community, state, and country!!!
I'll miss your vote, but I totally get it. Stay safe!
The communist party of America consistently votes democrat and doesn’t run a candidate. Same with the American Nazi party and republicans.
My attitude is simple, deal with the problems you can impact. The 2024 elections will not result in a loss of support for Israel. A fascist wants to run a coup in America. That’s on the table, he’s running for president. That’s a problem we can deal with.
We watched Donald do worse than Watergate on live news broadcasts.
Hmm, what to do? Better throw my ballot in the trash, because I am against genocide. If anything gets worse under this openly racist putsch planner screeching about dictatorship and absolute immunity, well, there was no way to have seen that coming, right?
Hi. I’m not American. But we all understand Trump’s threats. Or the inherent threat he poses. I think I speak for the world.
I’m more worried about a system that let someone like that get this far!
I swear I remember my social studies teacher saying one reason for the electoral college is to prevent someone like Trump. The founding fathers didn't want to trust the popular vote in case the masses got duped. With the polarization of the parties there's little chance of voting for the other person happening. There are some state laws that force them to vote for their candidate but I'm not sure how many states have the faithless electors clause.
Of course we got Trump because of the electoral college he lost the popular vote.
It always amazes me that, in more than just America, so many people are convinced by people like Trump.
There might not be the one perfect system but it should be allowed to modernize some flaws to prevent exactly this and allow more parties to exist.
More parties unfortunately does not fix the problem, as you can see by the rise of fascists in nearly all democracies worldwide.
Definitely a lot of biases but I’ve never met anyone outside the US that even remotely likes Trump. I think the world really sees your presidency as a total joke. But I mean Bush Jr… twice.
Speaking as an American: Our system lets people take the office despite not winning the popular vote. That's just straight-up systemic corruption.
I've always said Trump's not the hero we need but the villain we deserve. We did this to ourselves, with citizens united, 24 hr "news", straight up stupidity, and a just really strange sort of egotrip. Conversely my boy Bernie is the hero we needed, for the same reasons.
As to that egotrip. I don't think losing the Soviet Union was good for us. We need someone to lean into. Those goat spooning terrorist assholes just didn't cut it adversary wise. China is too foreign to make a truly good enemy. Now we're just vs. ourselves with predictable outcomes. If only there were a better way.
there is an understandable wave of nihilism manifesting in the younger generations that will probably persist for as long as they live. i don't imagine the united states will stop producing nihilists for a long time as the circumstances are not projected to change
I hope it won't turn into "weaponized doomerism" like in Eastern European countries like Hungary and Russia.
In Hungary, a lot of people just gave up altogether, and stopped voting. It's also often being used to get people to become Fidesz supporters.
If they fuck around they're going to find out real fast. Look how long it's taken to get weed semi legal. Like we've already lived in a kinda super wealthy oligarchy. I don't think we need to fight, unless the fascists win. They don't make up nearly the majority though so we could see what happened in Brazil here, horrible but they did get a more socially minded president. But Trump never conceded and still doesn't. He's caused basically a weird cult.
I almost wish Jimmy Carter would run for a second term. 99? 82? Age is just a number now apparently anyway lol
Soon we'll be governed by heads in jars, as Futurama has foretold
I still don't understand why he'll never be president except, ofc, he would never play the games that come with politics these days.
America is fast losing its chance for redemption.
Because when idiots hear Socialism they see Communism and it's frighteningly easy to start a red scare propaganda campaign to keep him off the big ticket.
The guy who fixes my car basically runs a French-style salon out of his shop, and he told me, "The South Will never vote Socialist." Seems he's right so far. That and he goes against the powers that be... Bernie would have been a nightmare for the rich and powerful.
He got outpolitiked in the 2020 primary. Really the only reason why he's not president right now.
But but but I won't vote in protest!1 That will definitely make them listen! (/s)
PSA: Not voting means you have the relevance of an old man yelling at a cloud.
You move the Overton window by voting. You want policy #857? You have to vote for policy #1 first. You have to walk before you can run.
I just want one of the "You can't vote for Biden!" people to outline what I should do instead. What's the play here? Dismantle the government? Sure, outline your plan and let's see if it has any merit. Protest? Great, tell me when and where but it doesn't preclude the need to vote.
They talk big, but if their entire plan begins with "don't vote" and ends with "bitch about it online" then it's not a great plan.
That's why I'm ridin with Biden, despite the genocide!
despite the genocide!
As if the other option isn't also genocide 🙄
Why is it so hard to ask for an option that isn't genocide?
Because a First-Past-The-Post voting system doesn't care about your ideals. Until we have a different system, literally your only hope of effecting change is to vote for one of the two partied candidates and work locally to influence your party from the bottom-up.
Voting third party doesn't send a message you want it to send. It doesn't send any message at all except "I approve of whatever you choose for me."
Me: YES! Orange man VERY bad, glad we were able to dumb it down for you in a way you can understand it.
Personally, i'm worried that the biden administration is underestimating the electoral importance of his decision to continue supporting Israel's genocide against Palestinians.
Personally, i’m worried that the biden administration is underestimating the electoral importance of his decision to continue supporting Israel’s genocide against Palestinians.
he's aware of the optics of his positions and voting history; that's why he reversed course on gay marriage; gays in the military and federal service long after it was popular and gave the barest of minimums for weed and student loans that didn't have much of an impact on the status quo.
palestine is the one thing he won't budge on; but he'll (somewhat) do all of the other things that'll get him votes like he's always done and give the people not paying enough attention warm fuzzy feels for supporting him.
i think the worst take away from this election cycle is learning that most american's don't give a rat's ass about genocide; so long as their guy wins and get to express regret over it. (i also wonder if that's how every other genocide is/was allowed to happen).
I think it would be helpful if people tranformed their concerns from meaningless doomposting to active political effort.
Cause the first is almost as bad as not worrying at all.
The problem is there's a lot to doom post about.
I get it that Biden has some possibly underreported accomplishments, but like Trump tried to overthrow the government and is still walking around like nothing happened.
Yes but circlejerking around it accomplishes nothing. Reach out to new audience, convert, talk, argue, influence.
That sound... As if millions of "muh corrupt DNC" trolls cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...
Doesn't change any of the entirely valid complaints about the DNC. They've been running on "vote for us because the GOP should scare you shitless" for a good long while now.
They don't have to do any better than not being as horrible/scary as the other guy and they know it. And the GOP usually gives them an awfully low bar.
It's this shitty attitude of the DNC that allowed the "genocidal maniac vs genocidal maniac" meme to fester. If you don't figure out how to take the party away from their hands, you'll keep running into situations where the DNC and its politicians will keep betraying your expectations with truly horrendous shit, rather than trying to represent their actual voters. Unfortunately far too many Americans have too much Stockholm Syndrome to dare move a finger if they don't have literally Bernie Sanders running on primaries, which he isn't going to do anymore due to age.
Bernie Sanders has already stated that it is up to the Youth of the nation to run against every single politician and win back their future. Young voters and young politicians must have each others backs.
Quite the opposite. Nobody learned anything from that article. No voting stances changed.
I'm not worried. I'm just utterly disappointed in the younger generation. Not in the whole typical way you'd expect older generations to be towards the younger ones.
It's more along the sense of "put down your fucking memes and jokes for abit and realize the reality that's around you" deal. Because we're now seeing the Onion practiced in our daily lives, we can't make the shit up that is actively happening in real time. And it doesn't affect just me, it affects you too.
We can't be putting off this shit forever and sit there going "aww, I just hope it gets better" naturally.
Because let's put it this way, say you don't vote this general election and Biden wins. Okay, cool, we've dodged Trump. But know that in the next 4 years, Biden is not eligible to be re-elected so good on you to no longer see him on the ballot, but you'll never know who could be next after him and there isn't a lot of strong favorability for his VP either. Trump for all we know, is likely going to run until he dies, so he's going to be trying again and again so long as he's living and so long as his voter base is there to back him.
But even when he dies, god knows what the Republicans will try propping up. We've got a bit of a glimpse of that when known fascists like DeSantis tried running for presidency. The only reason him and other candidates has lost is because they can't touch Trump. But when Trump does die, you know they'll be back again.
My point is we need to keep Republican interests the fuck away. They're nothing but destruction. How much evidence do you need before you see that? It's all fun and games to you with your jokes and memes until you're on the internet bitching and griping for why you think shit hits the fan or why you're struggling to make a living.
The second Trump starts losing favor with his voters or ability to fundraise the party will drop him super hard and fast.
If he loses again, AND the Republicans get mopped down the ballot, you'll start seeing people drop him or hang him out to dry like rats fleeing a sinking ship
as a black person i'm worried that donald trump's batting average isn't showing the potential it should be this season. he should spend more time in the cages.
Recently came across project 2025, which is a plan to upend the government for trump to run it like a dictatorship. It's actually frightening to even entertain the possibility. And I'm guessing it's derived from how putin got to his dictatorship position, because trump really likes putin and met with him too often.
Make everyones vote count (mandatory voting) and all of a sudden it matters
The US needs to get rid of the electoral college as well. This is dumb as fuck the weight of a vote differs between states.
Let's throw out first-past-the-post voting while we're at it.
Honestly...the whole basis for the union in general needs to get reworked from the ground up.
It may have worked when the only full citizens were white landowning males.
It may have worked when a big part of a states value to the union was its quantity of land and resources, and giving it extra weight in the system...and that itself may have worked when there wasn't as much population disparity:
1790: Total population: 3,929,214;
Most populous state: Virginia (747,610); Least populous state: Delaware (59,094) (12.6x)
2020: Total population: 331,449,281; Most populous state: California (39,538,223); Least populous state: Wyoming (576,851) (68.5x)
It may have worked when we didn't have telephones...let alone Internet, and the fastest way to spread information, besides semaphore or smoke signals, was on the back of a horse.
Times have changed. A lot of the world saw what we started and took some risks and made some changes and we've gotten to watch the results of those changes and learned a lot from all of them.
The country is bigger now, in several different ways...but in at least one way, it's smaller, too.
The constitution at this point is some old hunk of junk car that you know is objectively the worst car in your neighborhood, your friends and neighbors laugh at you behind your back for it..but you just can't part with it because she just...won't....die. You've had that car your whole life. It was a real sweet ride in its day. And it's part love, part fear, and part morbid curiosity that keeps us covering the frame rust with flex tape.
I'm not trying to say that the constitution itself is intrinsically bad. It served us well, but it was for a wildly different time, and at this point I think it might be getting to be beyond repair.
Well, there is a very simple solution to this. The Democrats could actually be a progressive party that recognizes and protects human rights, international law, and basic humanity of its American people.
But they don't. They continue to aid a genocide. They continue to obstruct justice on an international level. They continue the racist policies of Trumps like interment camps at the southern borders and building "the wall". They continue to protect the interest of rich elites against the American people like denying universal healthcare and basic social security for all.
The Democrats would rather have Trump win, than have the US not be a violent rogue nation internationally and a far-right economics hellhole internally.
Now they decided to crack down on free speech together with the Republicans, instead of taking the young peoples protests seriously. They are fine with Trump. For them Trump is better than universal healthcare or upholding international laws, like not committing mass murder.
In addition, Democrats do everything possible to make sure nobody left of center wins the Democratic nomination: when there was a real challenge to the corporate Democrats (Bernie in 2016 and 2020), they did everything they could to rig the primary process in order to keep out any leftward movement. Similarly for 2024, instead of holding debates to convince Democrats that Joe Biden was still up to the task, they held no debates and even canceled the primaries in several states. In 2020, polling showed that Bernie would have a much more comfortable path to victory than Biden, but Democrats were more comfortable with Trump than Bernie.
We need more choice. That means the end of fptp.
Because of the electoral college, my vote doesn't mean much of anything in a presidential election because I live in a very blue state, not a swing state. I still vote, though.
I'll say, the guy is taking abortion rights away.
It ain’t just young people. I’ve got a lot of lefty friends and family who have been lost and are willing to gamble on turnip because they think there is no way to handle things worse than we are now.
You would think that millions of global COVID deaths that he (and Xi - but nobody is allowed to vote that idiot out of office) is primarily responsible for would finally keep people from voting for the "it can't get any worse" guy.
COVID-19 killed almost three times as many Americans as died during WW2 due to both inaction and deliberate malicious actions. This alone should have resulted in a prison sentence for Trump and his inner circle.
We have a lot of serious problems in the US to say the least, but to assert it cannot get any worse seems like such a naive privileged thing to say.
We have to keep working to improve things, but there are so many ways things could go way, way worse then they are now.
you won't get any argument from me. these folks are the same ones telling me that I'm pro-war (generally in not such nice terms) because I want to avoid the abject horrors of a dictatorship; but apparently I'm just paranoid and overreacting.
My early-20's cousin-in-law the other day said something like "I don't want to vote for Biden or Trump, they're both the same". He's getting locked up for killing me, because I died when I heard him say that. (I went on to explain to him that they are NOT the same.)
Right? We gotta get Biden back in at all costs.
Man, I'd been ignoring the dread and focussing on the cool parts of the future that are coming, but this thread mamaged to break through my shield and fill me with a decent amount of WW3 dread
Just think, this time the USA is going to wait until things are awful and then join on the side of the bad guys.
I honestly dont see the States keeping as one country if it falls to ChristoFacism, but the States breaking apart will give a whole lot of regimes fuel to start expanding
The US breaking apart would be pretty hard considering how mixed together the two sides are.
I'm pretty sure Christo Facists trying to bring about the Handwives Tale isnt going to go down without a whimper
Which parts of the future are cool? I'm actually not joking. I can't think of anything that's cool except maybe self driving vehicles. But I fear that day is still quite a ways, decades, off.
b) damage done by demonstrating to the ruling class that you'll give them whatever they want so long as you genuinely fear one of the candidates
Tough call. I wish each and every one of you who has a say in this clairvoyance beyond mine.
The fact you phrase it as though that's an actual question is terrifying. You're comparing someone who wants to LITERALLY be a dictator and never have an election again, to someone who isn't willing to fully embrace every last left-wing policy you demand.
The "ruling class" didn't dictate Bernie not getting the Democratic nomination, people voting in primaries did. Do you know which group of people overwhelmingly don't vote in primaries? The same 20-somethings bitching about Biden being the "only other option". Get the fuck out of here with your "demonstrating to the ruling class" - you had your opportunity to show up and overwhelm the primaries and chose not to. The "ruling class" don't have the numbers to determine a primary, and if you choose to watch their commercials and buy into it, that's on you.
But hey, if a bunch of people think like you'll they'll find out what actually living in a dictatorship is like. And no, Canada isn't just going to welcome you with open arms when the world starts burning down around you so I hope you've got an exit strategy.
Me too Bernie, me too.
Biden should step down as the nominee and ask Bernie to run.
They don't understand that Trump is just as pro-Israel as Biden, if not even more so considering he moved the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.
That's the great part about our democracy: You don't get to vote for someone who isn't pro-Israel. Because freedom.
*electoral system
Because of FPTP and the Winner Take All Electoral College, there is a lot of political pressure to only have 2 parties. In a better system (proportional, ranked choice, etc) it wouldn't break with more than two parties. In fact just reforming the electoral college to be proportional would likely allow 3 parties to exist.
If you look at history the last time there was a viable 3rd party it possibly initiated the civil war by allowing an anti slavery viewpoint to exist (which is good, but if we'd had a better voting system it would have happened earlier and reduced a lot of suffering)
Congress is bipartisan pro-Israel. This isn't even a presidential issue.
Biden just happens to be the guy doing the pro-Israel stuff at the moment, so he's eating the lions share of the public ire.
"You have to support the Pro-Israel guy because the other guy is pro-Israel and both party leaders are pro-Israel and the cops are trained by Israelis and Israeli businesses have strong ties with the MIC and Big Finance needs Israel to control trade through the Suez and you're outnumbered and outgunned so quit fighting, just vote for Joe Biden" just isn't a winning message among progressive voters this year.
Maybe try it again in 2026.
My company buys a specific board from an Israeli company.
We have been working on an in house alternative for a few years now. Now we're scared to actually perform the switch because of the anti-boycott laws
The thing is: Biden is pro-Israel but also pro-Palestinians. He's providing aid to Gazans and pressuring Israel to minimize civilian casualties. It's not great, or even good, I agree - but it's a whole lot better than Trump who would be pro-Israel and anti-Palestinians. You'd see humanitarian aid end and the US support total war instead of the (slightly) restrained version we're seeing now.
Biden’s Increasingly Contradictory Israel Policy: A former State Department official explains the Administration’s sharpening public critique of Israel’s war and simultaneous refusal to “impose a single cost or consequence.”
Biden is pro-Getting Relected. And he recognizes that his party is increasingly pro-Palestinian. However, his current policy appears to be a CYA strategy, intended to create the illusion of neutrality while negotiating a path that allows Israel to continue its extermination of Arab people across the region.
As this exterminationist Israeli agenda becomes more undeniable, the job of appearing neutral grows more difficult. And Biden's decision to (tacitly) back Israel at all costs means risking friendly relations with Turkyie, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. However, he's staying the course, precisely because he's banking on a mass expulsion and genocide of Palestinians today will strengthen Israel's regional position in the future.
It's especially telling that one of Biden's justification's for his support of Israel is a promise to his dying father.
Is that how politicians in a Democracy are supposed to make decisions?
If someone gives a sandwich to me and a gun to a person actively trying to murder me, they are not "pro-me"
An alternative explanation is that what he says and what he de facto does are two entirelly different things.
Being pro-Palestinian would require demanding Israel stop murdering them.
Yeah even to expand on that - they don't understand that everything they don't like about Biden, they'll like about Trump less. I mean I have real serious gripes about Biden but it is insultingly stupid to pretend that Trump would be any kind of a solution to those problems.
It seems that many of them know that Trump is worse, but think that sticking to ideals and voting for a non-viable candidate (or not voting at all) is somehow the best course of action. Republicans count on people like that to win. Fascists don't give a fuck how they get into power, as long as they do.
They don't just count on it. They actively invade spaces and spread that idea. I'm almost certain the first people saying that about Biden/Israel were right wing trolls, and people on the left actually took the bait and started spreading it themselves.
I get the sentiment, because I hate our two choices, too, but until first past the post system is changed, the lesser of two evils will always be the most practical choice.
They also seem to fervently believe:
Any time you ask for details on step 2, you get an unhinged rant with zero plausibility.
My best guess, if they actually believe there's a path to a ranked choice system and aren't just being doomers, is that they think a bloody rebellion will do the trick.
Yeah, there's a lot of tankies that pretend they are progressives so they don't get laughed at outright. They'll take their masks off 10-20 comments down the thread where few people actually see.
I tend to find that the people who believe in participating in the 2 party system also do these same steps. Why would either party do away with FPTP? Neither one has any incentive to do it. At least third parties often have it listed as part of their platform and have incentive to do it because they can't easily get elected within the current system.
The way it will happen is grassroots local compaigns. Those don't have as much need for FPTP and are more likely to be politicians who care. Eventually you build up enough to change things locally, then change state laws. That might be enough there, but it can potentially be pushed further and go for a national campaign once you have enough momentum.
It won't change by the president or congress right off the bat. That's not how this sort of thing happens. I wish it were. It'd be a lot faster and simpler, but it just won't work.
What exactly is your plan for changing first past the post?
You could make the case that if the democrats actually supported that, it's worth holding your nose and voting for them in order to open up other options in the future. But they don't support it, because they benefit from it. So basically you're asking the left to keep voting for the democrats unconditionally forever while they don't address any of our concerns and refuse to make any sort of reforms that might allow us to have a voice in the future. How is that a viable path to accomplishing anything?
The plan is to keep voting in every primary for the most progressive candidates and then voting for the least bad people in elections while pushing for reform. However hard it is to enact change while Democrats are in power, it will be impossible while Republicans are.
I'll pose the same question to you: how is not voting for the least bad viable candidates, thus guaranteeing the worst candidates get into power, a viable path to accomplishing anything?
Did you not notice what the DNC did to Sanders in the last Democrat primary???!
It's not just a case of "a few bad apples".
But what I'm being told over and over is if Biden cuts off support for Israel he'll lose the election. Which means moderates and liberals won't vote for a progressive candidate who makes it through the primaries leading to whatever nutjob is running on the other side.
So our reward for being pragmatic and holding our nose will be the same as voting 3rd party today.
It's just as impossible to enact reform through the Democratic party. Especially when you adopt the approach of "vote blue no matter who." The Democratic parties interests in terms of voting reform are directly contrary to the interests of voters, and will never allow it happen unless they have no other choice. If they know they can count on your support no matter, then you have forfeited whatever negotiating power you've managed to accrue.
To the extent that electoralism is worth engaging with, strategic voting as part of a bloc is the only way to make it worthwhile. The goal should be to build an organization or movement that can say, if you refuse to give into our demands, we will not vote for you and you will lose. In the short term, it might mean losing an election, but if you can demonstrate that power, then in the future you'll be able to make a credible threat of withholding votes to get what you want, and if they cooperate you won't have to follow through. If that organization is able to coordinate other actions like strikes, then all the better.
It's like this: two countries are facing a powerful invader, and the only way to fend them off is through an alliance. But country A says, "I know you need us to survive, so we demand 99% of your territory in exchange for an alliance." If country B follows the ideology of "lesser evilism," they'll agree to that, because 1% is better than 0%. But how did that happen, when country A needs the alliance just as much? Because lesser evilism is stupid and irrational. At some point you have to set a red line and say, this is the absolute minimum that I'll accept, and I'll reject anything less even if it means the deal falling through and me facing a worse outcome. And "no genocide" is decidedly inside of that line.
Republicans have lost more than one Senate seat because they ran zealous nutbag losers in safe elections and pissed off moderates.
I'm not sure why Democrats get to run pro-war Zionists and Blue Lives fascists, free from the fear that they'll suffer the same fate.
Because even though they would prefer the fascists don't get into power, the wealthy Democrat politicians know they won't be too adversely affected by it.
Well that just begs the same question about the moderates and liberals who keep them in power. Do they think this is a winning strategy?
Or they understand that all this apolgetics for the Dems being the lesser of two evils just results in them being the same evil, just four years later. The Dems are still running internment camps at the border. They are still building Trumps wall.
By never threatening them with actual consequences to their power, you give them a blanket check to fuck everyone over for their rich donors. And that is exactly what they did and continue to do.
The GOP openly courts antisemites while also supporting Israel. They make sure to have all the awful bases covered.
They need all the Jews to return to Israel and the temple to be rebuilt so Jesus can come back. Of course, that does mean expelling all Jews from every other country Jews are in, but they leave that part out.
Zionism fits neatly into the view that every country should be ethically homogenous.
It's inherently right wing
And yet so is hating Jews. Ordinarily a quandary, but the GOP lives for hypocrisy.
Hating Jews "over here".
"Over there" is fine, which is why American Racism dovetails so neatly with Zionism: both desire the same, just from different directions.
PS: I was going to say "Fascism" instead of "American Racism", but frankly if there is one thing this whole situation has made clear is that Liberals are also all about different treatment depending on a person's etnicity - as made so puignantly clear in their reaction to recent university demonstrations as well as by the very different language used in the Liberal Press when it comes to Palestinians and Israelis - so it's really just both variants of Racism in the US.
Everything they do makes sense to them... Which should tell you everything you need to know about them.
Zionism has big "go back to where you came from" vibes
Antisemiticites
And once again, as the foreign trolls that are busy courting our youth want, not one comment in this entire thread mentions that Europe is on the brink of open modernized war should Ukraine fall to vlad "Ukraine is just a stepping stone" putin.
Gaza is a genocide, but that is not the critical geopolitical stage to be paying the most attention to. Once again it is completely ignored that the heads of hamas who attacked israel on oct 7 knowing exactly what they were about to cause are friends of putin.
The Gaza genocide was provoked precisely to pull western eyes from the Ukrainian front where russia was more than underperforming to ensure their victory in a sustained war of attrition.
You want to avoid a world war? You vote for biden whether u do it proudly or do it holding ur nose the way most of the sane will.
The Gaza genocide did not start on Oct 7, much like the Russian incursion on Unkraine did not start in Jan 2022. Both of those are tremendous blights on human rights and should be equally condemned.
Of course, voting for Biden is the only stable option as much as one may lament that it shouldn't be.
If what you say is correct, then it would seem that the onus is on Israel to stop the genocide in order to save its European benefactors.
The onus to sane action is on everyone. Israel is in the wrong no matter which way u cut the pie. It does not mean that ignoring whats happening north of israel is validated bc the apartheid state is acting the way it always has.
Then the sane action is to not support and enable Israel, and not support its enablers.
If you live in the USA, you inevitably support the government. Not voting supports the greater evil, voting supports the lesser evil.
So vote, and organize anarchist enclaves, or socialist groups, or justice NGO's. Sink or swim.
Or at least Biden to reverse course and admit supporting Israel isn't worth the possibility of losing the election.
Liberals and moderates love to tell us about the choice in front of us between Biden and Trump. But they ignore the choice in front of them which is supporting Israel or losing the election.
Yeah, October 7th had nothing to do with the war that Israel was performing on Gaza before that. It wasn't all about Ukraine.
He absolutely is more so. Also, young people have more power to influence Biden because they are part of his coalition. Of course, using this power is tricky because you need to pressure and criticize Biden without actually making him lose. So far I support the pressure campaign but I hope as the election gets closer people will start to realize what an epic disaster Trump term two would be.
He said he would level Palestine.
Not sure what these youngins are reading but he isn't coy about it.
Are young people really a part of Bidens coalition? Bidens policies and rhetoric have consistantly pushed young people away. The ridiculous speech he gave just a few minutes ago maligning student protestors is emblematic of this.
And it seems like young people have got the message. The last poll I saw had 18-24yr olds voting for Trump at +8%
Historically they have been. I think Biden seems out of touch but I’m not sure I agree with this sentiment overall. That poll sounds dubious but I mean coalitions can change certainly. Trump seems even further from the views I see most young people espousing so I’m not sure why they would move to him but maybe it’s protest vote kind of situation.
Young people are part of the coalition but they've never proven to be a reliable part. When the 18-25s vote like the older generations then campaigns will start to take their needs more seriously.
Exactly. When I was 18-25 bernie learned this. We didn’t like Hillary so we got trump.
Young voters delivered GA in 2020, and what did Dems do with that majority?
Biden immediately dropped all pretense of doing immigration reform because an unelected senate parliamentarian said no, offered no meaningful student debt relief, didn’t legalize cannabis, and is drilling for oil at record rates - more so than Trump did. Dems had yet another chance to codify Roe, and blew it. Biden even left in Louis DeJoy as postmaster general. Now he’s mischaracterizing peaceful student protesters as violent radicals, while actual thugs in riot gear and stars of david are free to descend upon them and beat them into submission.
Don’t blame young people for having eyes and ears and paying attention - Biden had his chance, and blew it in favor of his donors’ interests. It’s a tale as old as time, and if you have any interest in actually galvanizing youthful voters, you’ve got to offer something better than the outmoded views of geriatric, genocidin’ Biden.
He is much much worse https://www.vox.com/policy/24072983/biden-trump-palestinians-israel-gaza-policy-different
I fucking hate, and from the bottom of my heart, how Biden is funding the genocide in Palestine, but I'm still going to vote for him this time, because we just can't have a person like Trump in the white house, period. I still can't figure out how he got in the first time. I'd never let my 10 year old lead a country, yet we let Trump do it for four fucking years. I, too, am sick of this "the lesser of two evils" bullshit, but this time I'm giving it a pass because of Trump. We already have a crumbling country and can't afford another four years of this dude.
I don’t understand why people point out that Biden is “funding the genocide in Palestine” and completely ignore and fail to mention that trump would do the exact same thing.
He has all but said he would cut Israel loose to do whatever they needed to finish the job.
The use of Israeli aggression is not a point of comparison when viewing the differences between trump and Biden.
Edit: and I apologize for the late edit - FWIW Biden has become critical of Israeli actions and offered some aid to Palestinians (Yeah, I absolutely agree it isn’t enough) while trump would prefer to wash his hands of the whole Palestine thing. That is a notable difference.
No one denies that trump will fund it. That's not the point, but I get what you mean.
It isn’t the potential for denial that initiated my reply, it’s the fact that people declare US support of Israel is a strike against Biden when comparing Biden to trump as a reason to consider not voting for Biden. This is a false comparison and it is the point I am making.
I've argued with multiple people on here who said Trump would be better for Palestinians than Biden is.
And? The problem is that these people won't really address the fact that Trump would be worse than Biden
I think Joe Biden is maybe the best president of my lifetime, and I'm going to vote for him with my head held high even though I live in a red state where it doesn't matter at all. I wish things were simpler in the Levant, but I appreciate that Joe Biden is between a rock and a hard place with Israel. It's not like he can just take Bibi out. He's not Boeing. That said, even if I laid the entire genocide at Biden's feet (which, while he's not blameless, is absolutely not appropriate), he would still be head and shoulders an improvement over Donald Trump.
For that matter, I'd absolutely let my 12 year old run this country before I'd let Trump have a second term. My kid is brilliant, and more importantly, unlike Trump he listens to advice, can take no for an answer, and gives a shit about having a functional democracy four years from now.
A second Trump term is an existential threat to the nation. Hold your nose, hold your neighbor's nose if you have to, but every able-bodied patriot owes it to their descendants and their patriotic ancestors to prevent a second Trump term.
Biden went around congress to ship weapons to Israel. Painting him as helpless here is pure misinformation.
Well, he is the President of the United States. We may have to pretend Bibi is a socialist though.
Your ten-year-old is more mature than Trump.
Not a joke.
Knowing my son? He absolutely is way more mature than Trump.
Ten year old?! Thats a high bar for most republicans these days. They want knee jerk and whining. Thats something most 10 year olds are already figuring out doesnt get them what they want.
That's basically my point. That, and how Trump brags that he hasn't matured past the age of six.
I’m 100% sure trump would have taken charge over there because it was taking too long.
Genocide? Hold my beer.
Electoral College, should not exist.
When I was young my parents introduced me to some old school Communists; folks who'd fought in the Spanish Civil War and been blacklisted in the 1950s.
One of the stories they told was that back in 1968 the oldtimers were warning people to vote for Hubert Humphrey because they knew how bad Nixon would be, Too many young folks then thought 'both sides are the same.'
I don't know much about him, but reading that he lost the young people vote for supporting the Vietnam War is such a good parallel for today.
Damn, it sounds like he shouldn't have supported that war. If only people had warned him about it.
Here's a cool tidbit that's probably gonna end up in the history books.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-speaks-college-protests-israel-gaza-war/story?id=109870179
LBJ realized he'd made a giant mistake and hoped Humphrey could end the War. Nixon ran as a 'peace' candidate and made things much worse.
Trump's people would nuke the entire Middle East hoping to bring about the Rapture.
jesus, well this is cementing my choice to move to a deep blue state to get away from people politicizing my existence.
Assuming you're in the LGBT spectrum ... sorry to say even there you might not be safe if Trump gets a second term. Things have softened for the LGB so those folks might be okay, but trans folks ... I'd be worried.
It also weakens purple states and national power when blue voters move out of purple states... Personally, I'd highly encourage folks moving to purple states to turn them more blue.
Michigan or Pennsylvania might be a good choice. I keep holding out for Ohio, but we need to give the gerrymandering issues (hopefully we finally will this year).
As a trans person in a deep blue state, I'm hoping my state's politics give me just enough buffer time that I can find a way to GTFO before the gestapo comes for me
Yeah, nowhere is confirmed safe. Fascism is attempting to ascend. Welcome to the 1930s, get a passport and fill a backpack with non perishable calorie dense food.
Living in Ohio with my trans husband, we're moving to Vermont this summer to get away from it all. I feel like I'm shirking my duty by taking our votes with us, but we really don't want to be here come November. Ohio has gone to Trump two for two, and I'm not feeling lucky on number three.
Do what's right for you and your partner, and then we can all continue to work on community, state, and country!!!
I'll miss your vote, but I totally get it. Stay safe!
The communist party of America consistently votes democrat and doesn’t run a candidate. Same with the American Nazi party and republicans.
My attitude is simple, deal with the problems you can impact. The 2024 elections will not result in a loss of support for Israel. A fascist wants to run a coup in America. That’s on the table, he’s running for president. That’s a problem we can deal with.
We watched Donald do worse than Watergate on live news broadcasts.
Hmm, what to do? Better throw my ballot in the trash, because I am against genocide. If anything gets worse under this openly racist putsch planner screeching about dictatorship and absolute immunity, well, there was no way to have seen that coming, right?
Hi. I’m not American. But we all understand Trump’s threats. Or the inherent threat he poses. I think I speak for the world.
I’m more worried about a system that let someone like that get this far!
I swear I remember my social studies teacher saying one reason for the electoral college is to prevent someone like Trump. The founding fathers didn't want to trust the popular vote in case the masses got duped. With the polarization of the parties there's little chance of voting for the other person happening. There are some state laws that force them to vote for their candidate but I'm not sure how many states have the faithless electors clause.
Of course we got Trump because of the electoral college he lost the popular vote.
It always amazes me that, in more than just America, so many people are convinced by people like Trump.
There might not be the one perfect system but it should be allowed to modernize some flaws to prevent exactly this and allow more parties to exist.
More parties unfortunately does not fix the problem, as you can see by the rise of fascists in nearly all democracies worldwide.
Definitely a lot of biases but I’ve never met anyone outside the US that even remotely likes Trump. I think the world really sees your presidency as a total joke. But I mean Bush Jr… twice.
Speaking as an American: Our system lets people take the office despite not winning the popular vote. That's just straight-up systemic corruption.
I've always said Trump's not the hero we need but the villain we deserve. We did this to ourselves, with citizens united, 24 hr "news", straight up stupidity, and a just really strange sort of egotrip. Conversely my boy Bernie is the hero we needed, for the same reasons.
As to that egotrip. I don't think losing the Soviet Union was good for us. We need someone to lean into. Those goat spooning terrorist assholes just didn't cut it adversary wise. China is too foreign to make a truly good enemy. Now we're just vs. ourselves with predictable outcomes. If only there were a better way.
there is an understandable wave of nihilism manifesting in the younger generations that will probably persist for as long as they live. i don't imagine the united states will stop producing nihilists for a long time as the circumstances are not projected to change
I hope it won't turn into "weaponized doomerism" like in Eastern European countries like Hungary and Russia.
In Hungary, a lot of people just gave up altogether, and stopped voting. It's also often being used to get people to become Fidesz supporters.
If they fuck around they're going to find out real fast. Look how long it's taken to get weed semi legal. Like we've already lived in a kinda super wealthy oligarchy. I don't think we need to fight, unless the fascists win. They don't make up nearly the majority though so we could see what happened in Brazil here, horrible but they did get a more socially minded president. But Trump never conceded and still doesn't. He's caused basically a weird cult.
I almost wish Jimmy Carter would run for a second term. 99? 82? Age is just a number now apparently anyway lol
Soon we'll be governed by heads in jars, as Futurama has foretold
Bernie is right.
He's right frighteningly often.
I still don't understand why he'll never be president except, ofc, he would never play the games that come with politics these days.
America is fast losing its chance for redemption.
Because when idiots hear Socialism they see Communism and it's frighteningly easy to start a red scare propaganda campaign to keep him off the big ticket.
The guy who fixes my car basically runs a French-style salon out of his shop, and he told me, "The South Will never vote Socialist." Seems he's right so far. That and he goes against the powers that be... Bernie would have been a nightmare for the rich and powerful.
He got outpolitiked in the 2020 primary. Really the only reason why he's not president right now.
But but but I won't vote in protest!1 That will definitely make them listen! (/s)
PSA: Not voting means you have the relevance of an old man yelling at a cloud.
You move the Overton window by voting. You want policy #857? You have to vote for policy #1 first. You have to walk before you can run.
I just want one of the "You can't vote for Biden!" people to outline what I should do instead. What's the play here? Dismantle the government? Sure, outline your plan and let's see if it has any merit. Protest? Great, tell me when and where but it doesn't preclude the need to vote.
They talk big, but if their entire plan begins with "don't vote" and ends with "bitch about it online" then it's not a great plan.
That's why I'm ridin with Biden, despite the genocide!
As if the other option isn't also genocide 🙄
Why is it so hard to ask for an option that isn't genocide?
Because a First-Past-The-Post voting system doesn't care about your ideals. Until we have a different system, literally your only hope of effecting change is to vote for one of the two partied candidates and work locally to influence your party from the bottom-up.
Voting third party doesn't send a message you want it to send. It doesn't send any message at all except "I approve of whatever you choose for me."
Even more reason to get Biden back in at all costs then.
Ridin' with Biden despite the genocidin'
Let’s vote for trump and get some American boots on the ground! Can’t let the IDF take all of the glory!
The Unconcerned: "Orange man bad"
Me: YES! Orange man VERY bad, glad we were able to dumb it down for you in a way you can understand it.
Personally, i'm worried that the biden administration is underestimating the electoral importance of his decision to continue supporting Israel's genocide against Palestinians.
he's aware of the optics of his positions and voting history; that's why he reversed course on gay marriage; gays in the military and federal service long after it was popular and gave the barest of minimums for weed and student loans that didn't have much of an impact on the status quo.
palestine is the one thing he won't budge on; but he'll (somewhat) do all of the other things that'll get him votes like he's always done and give the people not paying enough attention warm fuzzy feels for supporting him.
i think the worst take away from this election cycle is learning that most american's don't give a rat's ass about genocide; so long as their guy wins and get to express regret over it. (i also wonder if that's how every other genocide is/was allowed to happen).
I think it would be helpful if people tranformed their concerns from meaningless doomposting to active political effort.
Cause the first is almost as bad as not worrying at all.
The problem is there's a lot to doom post about.
I get it that Biden has some possibly underreported accomplishments, but like Trump tried to overthrow the government and is still walking around like nothing happened.
Yes but circlejerking around it accomplishes nothing. Reach out to new audience, convert, talk, argue, influence.
That sound... As if millions of "muh corrupt DNC" trolls cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...
Doesn't change any of the entirely valid complaints about the DNC. They've been running on "vote for us because the GOP should scare you shitless" for a good long while now.
They don't have to do any better than not being as horrible/scary as the other guy and they know it. And the GOP usually gives them an awfully low bar.
It's this shitty attitude of the DNC that allowed the "genocidal maniac vs genocidal maniac" meme to fester. If you don't figure out how to take the party away from their hands, you'll keep running into situations where the DNC and its politicians will keep betraying your expectations with truly horrendous shit, rather than trying to represent their actual voters. Unfortunately far too many Americans have too much Stockholm Syndrome to dare move a finger if they don't have literally Bernie Sanders running on primaries, which he isn't going to do anymore due to age.
Bernie Sanders has already stated that it is up to the Youth of the nation to run against every single politician and win back their future. Young voters and young politicians must have each others backs.
Quite the opposite. Nobody learned anything from that article. No voting stances changed.
I'm not worried. I'm just utterly disappointed in the younger generation. Not in the whole typical way you'd expect older generations to be towards the younger ones.
It's more along the sense of "put down your fucking memes and jokes for abit and realize the reality that's around you" deal. Because we're now seeing the Onion practiced in our daily lives, we can't make the shit up that is actively happening in real time. And it doesn't affect just me, it affects you too.
We can't be putting off this shit forever and sit there going "aww, I just hope it gets better" naturally.
Because let's put it this way, say you don't vote this general election and Biden wins. Okay, cool, we've dodged Trump. But know that in the next 4 years, Biden is not eligible to be re-elected so good on you to no longer see him on the ballot, but you'll never know who could be next after him and there isn't a lot of strong favorability for his VP either. Trump for all we know, is likely going to run until he dies, so he's going to be trying again and again so long as he's living and so long as his voter base is there to back him.
But even when he dies, god knows what the Republicans will try propping up. We've got a bit of a glimpse of that when known fascists like DeSantis tried running for presidency. The only reason him and other candidates has lost is because they can't touch Trump. But when Trump does die, you know they'll be back again.
My point is we need to keep Republican interests the fuck away. They're nothing but destruction. How much evidence do you need before you see that? It's all fun and games to you with your jokes and memes until you're on the internet bitching and griping for why you think shit hits the fan or why you're struggling to make a living.
The second Trump starts losing favor with his voters or ability to fundraise the party will drop him super hard and fast.
If he loses again, AND the Republicans get mopped down the ballot, you'll start seeing people drop him or hang him out to dry like rats fleeing a sinking ship
as a black person i'm worried that donald trump's batting average isn't showing the potential it should be this season. he should spend more time in the cages.
Recently came across project 2025, which is a plan to upend the government for trump to run it like a dictatorship. It's actually frightening to even entertain the possibility. And I'm guessing it's derived from how putin got to his dictatorship position, because trump really likes putin and met with him too often.
Its called apathy.
Make everyones vote count (mandatory voting) and all of a sudden it matters
The US needs to get rid of the electoral college as well. This is dumb as fuck the weight of a vote differs between states.
Let's throw out first-past-the-post voting while we're at it.
Honestly...the whole basis for the union in general needs to get reworked from the ground up.
It may have worked when the only full citizens were white landowning males.
It may have worked when a big part of a states value to the union was its quantity of land and resources, and giving it extra weight in the system...and that itself may have worked when there wasn't as much population disparity:
It may have worked when we didn't have telephones...let alone Internet, and the fastest way to spread information, besides semaphore or smoke signals, was on the back of a horse.
Times have changed. A lot of the world saw what we started and took some risks and made some changes and we've gotten to watch the results of those changes and learned a lot from all of them.
The country is bigger now, in several different ways...but in at least one way, it's smaller, too.
The constitution at this point is some old hunk of junk car that you know is objectively the worst car in your neighborhood, your friends and neighbors laugh at you behind your back for it..but you just can't part with it because she just...won't....die. You've had that car your whole life. It was a real sweet ride in its day. And it's part love, part fear, and part morbid curiosity that keeps us covering the frame rust with flex tape.
I'm not trying to say that the constitution itself is intrinsically bad. It served us well, but it was for a wildly different time, and at this point I think it might be getting to be beyond repair.
Brasil has compulsory voting and they had Bolsonaro (and apathy). I dont think thats a solution for this specific problem.
I wish less people were so jaded about voting...
Well, there is a very simple solution to this. The Democrats could actually be a progressive party that recognizes and protects human rights, international law, and basic humanity of its American people.
But they don't. They continue to aid a genocide. They continue to obstruct justice on an international level. They continue the racist policies of Trumps like interment camps at the southern borders and building "the wall". They continue to protect the interest of rich elites against the American people like denying universal healthcare and basic social security for all.
The Democrats would rather have Trump win, than have the US not be a violent rogue nation internationally and a far-right economics hellhole internally.
Now they decided to crack down on free speech together with the Republicans, instead of taking the young peoples protests seriously. They are fine with Trump. For them Trump is better than universal healthcare or upholding international laws, like not committing mass murder.
In addition, Democrats do everything possible to make sure nobody left of center wins the Democratic nomination: when there was a real challenge to the corporate Democrats (Bernie in 2016 and 2020), they did everything they could to rig the primary process in order to keep out any leftward movement. Similarly for 2024, instead of holding debates to convince Democrats that Joe Biden was still up to the task, they held no debates and even canceled the primaries in several states. In 2020, polling showed that Bernie would have a much more comfortable path to victory than Biden, but Democrats were more comfortable with Trump than Bernie.
We need more choice. That means the end of fptp.
Because of the electoral college, my vote doesn't mean much of anything in a presidential election because I live in a very blue state, not a swing state. I still vote, though.
I'll say, the guy is taking abortion rights away.
It ain’t just young people. I’ve got a lot of lefty friends and family who have been lost and are willing to gamble on turnip because they think there is no way to handle things worse than we are now.
You would think that millions of global COVID deaths that he (and Xi - but nobody is allowed to vote that idiot out of office) is primarily responsible for would finally keep people from voting for the "it can't get any worse" guy.
COVID-19 killed almost three times as many Americans as died during WW2 due to both inaction and deliberate malicious actions. This alone should have resulted in a prison sentence for Trump and his inner circle.
We have a lot of serious problems in the US to say the least, but to assert it cannot get any worse seems like such a naive privileged thing to say.
We have to keep working to improve things, but there are so many ways things could go way, way worse then they are now.
you won't get any argument from me. these folks are the same ones telling me that I'm pro-war (generally in not such nice terms) because I want to avoid the abject horrors of a dictatorship; but apparently I'm just paranoid and overreacting.
My early-20's cousin-in-law the other day said something like "I don't want to vote for Biden or Trump, they're both the same". He's getting locked up for killing me, because I died when I heard him say that. (I went on to explain to him that they are NOT the same.)
Right? We gotta get Biden back in at all costs.
Man, I'd been ignoring the dread and focussing on the cool parts of the future that are coming, but this thread mamaged to break through my shield and fill me with a decent amount of WW3 dread
Just think, this time the USA is going to wait until things are awful and then join on the side of the bad guys.
I honestly dont see the States keeping as one country if it falls to ChristoFacism, but the States breaking apart will give a whole lot of regimes fuel to start expanding
The US breaking apart would be pretty hard considering how mixed together the two sides are.
I'm pretty sure Christo Facists trying to bring about the Handwives Tale isnt going to go down without a whimper
Which parts of the future are cool? I'm actually not joking. I can't think of anything that's cool except maybe self driving vehicles. But I fear that day is still quite a ways, decades, off.
This election already has a few commonalities with '80.
Potential or real stagflation. A President that's seen as ineffective (despite some pretty okay policies). And a morally corrupt Republican.
On the other hand, Carter didn't help genocide or cover for it.
Them run Bernie. You aren't that much older than Biden. You are clearly more with it and cogent and your foreign policy is better by miles.
He knows that's not a viable option.
Balance:
a) damage done by another Trump presidency
vs
b) damage done by demonstrating to the ruling class that you'll give them whatever they want so long as you genuinely fear one of the candidates
Tough call. I wish each and every one of you who has a say in this clairvoyance beyond mine.
The fact you phrase it as though that's an actual question is terrifying. You're comparing someone who wants to LITERALLY be a dictator and never have an election again, to someone who isn't willing to fully embrace every last left-wing policy you demand.
The "ruling class" didn't dictate Bernie not getting the Democratic nomination, people voting in primaries did. Do you know which group of people overwhelmingly don't vote in primaries? The same 20-somethings bitching about Biden being the "only other option". Get the fuck out of here with your "demonstrating to the ruling class" - you had your opportunity to show up and overwhelm the primaries and chose not to. The "ruling class" don't have the numbers to determine a primary, and if you choose to watch their commercials and buy into it, that's on you. But hey, if a bunch of people think like you'll they'll find out what actually living in a dictatorship is like. And no, Canada isn't just going to welcome you with open arms when the world starts burning down around you so I hope you've got an exit strategy.
This mf spittin