If my dogs ever tried to kill me, I’d just pin them both down. That’s the benefit of not having insanely powerful dogs.
IMO you shouldn’t have a dog that you can’t physically restrain. Any dog can snap and you need to be able to physically stop them if that happens.
Does Lemmy has a Ban Pitbulls community yet?
So huge dogs should just remain ownerless?
I agree in the sense that some dog breeds aren't necessary and are actively unhealthy for the animal and the breed should be allowed to die out removing the ability for people to be owners of those breeds, and therefore ownerless
They said only own dogs you can overpower. That means nobody gets a St. Bernard. I don't think St. Bernard is a breed that should die out.
My St. Bernard, Rosie, would agree. She's such a big scaredy cat.
This seems nuts. Is this not an insane opinion? You want entire dog breeds to go extinct? What are your thoughts on that one governor lady? lol
Yes? I am not sure I understand what is making you upset. I am not saying kill all the pitbulls, I am saying stop dog eugenics and let dogs just be dogs and love the animal that comes out. If that means that we stop having access to purebred (inbred) Pugs, so be it. Mutts are just as good doggos.
Idk why you think I'm upset. I'm more shocked than anything.
I would think most people tend to support conservation of different animals and whatnot, except for maybe mosquitoes (and even then I'd be hesitant). It's also blowing my mind that you're heavily upvoted. I had no idea some of y'all thought this way.
That said, I'm just going to assume I don't fully understand what you're saying since it seems so batshit crazy to me. It's clear this isn't really an honest, open dialogue anyway, and that's totally fine
Not the OP, but let me step in. Dog breeds are something we have created as humans, they're not wild species that need to be preserved and don't have any effect on ecosystems.
Dog breeding is largely negative at this point as most breeds have outlived their original use and are now seen as designer pets. We continue to breed them as there is continued demand, but quite often these breeds are so inbred that they have genetic health issues. We also oversupply and don't fix/neuter enough, meaning there are always unwanted dogs without homes.
I love dogs, but all of mine have been rescues and I would have no problem with the vast majority of breeds being phased out. There are still some niche cases where dogs are actually used for their breed's purpose (dog sled, search/rescue, hunting, etc) but no, I don't think a chihuahua or a pug should exist and would not be sad if breeders stopped producing more.
Thanks for sharing your POV. It's definitely the first time I've heard something that radical about dogs, which are basically the most beloved living thing in the US, but I can somewhat understand where you're coming from.
I'd definitely support making it more difficult to own a dog, but mostly because many of the dog owners I've met are borderline abusive to their pets (I'm mainly thinking of neglect here). I don't think I could ever support a ban on entire breeds. That's where it starts to seem crazy to me. Make it a felony to own a dog that bites someone or something but don't make it a felony to simply own the dog. We don't even have such laws for people that own guns or swords and surely those lead to more deaths/injuries than dogs.
I feel I should clarify that I don't hold this position because dogs are dangerous or think it should be harder to have a dog. I hold it because I think our breeding programs are creating a lot of animal suffering.
From puppy mills where dogs are kept in horrible conditions, to overproduction of animals so that there aren't enough homes, to propagating breeds that can barely breath so that they have an "adorable" face. Dog breeding is exploitative and re-enforces that dogs are simply a commodity.
I'm not sure a law making it more difficult to own a dog would have the effect you intend, as there are already too many dogs in need of homes. I think a more palatable middle ground to elimination would be regulation of breeders to ensure that they are not producing more dogs than can be homed.
There's a difference between that and policies that discourage breeding, etc.
I don't see many people advocating to outright kill dogs. There are a ton of pits in every shelter and yet people still run backyard breeding operations or tell everyone to get a pit. The breed would be better served if we told people they were more of an advanced breed that need the right kind of owners and environment.
I noticed my guinea pigs have never tried to murder me. Granted in a home invasion they are pretty useless. Unless I like throw their squeaky bodies at said invader or overpower him and make him drink from the water dish as vengeance.
They should require a license to own and a reason to be bred
They should be put down.
Send 'em to God.
You are condoning killing dogs simply in response to their size?
I bet more cows are killed in a year than all shelter dogs on earth.
So, for most folks, the "no death" argument is silly
Cows are killed for meat. Are you suggesting we should kill dogs for their meat?
Yes they were clearly suggesting that. Any honest reading would have arrived at that conclusion.
What is the difference between a cow and a dog that killing either is okay?
Cow farms supply food for humans. I'm not saying that's the most ethical thing in the world, but it is done. Would dogs serve the same purpose? They would produce less, lower quality meat per head.
Oh, from an efficiency standpoint.
Dogs aren't put down for their meat, so the discussion of the acceptability of putting dogs down is not based on their meat.
Thus, the point is about humans simply killing animals.
This isn't about the human imposed utility, it's about if it's fine for humans to decide what animals live and die. Humans don't need beef to live, there are other foods, so humans make a human centric choice to kill cows.
Since humans are deciding what animals.live, based purely on human wants, why would dogs be free of that assessment?
Any dog can snap
any animal can snap.
I guess you don't think people should have st. bernards or great danes? I mean, I'm not suggesting people keep wolves or lions as pets, but this bully dog fearmongering is out of control. IMHO, it's not the breed, it's the training and owner.
breed is literally bred to increase aggression over hundreds of generations
nooo they just look scary they’re so cuddly noooo you don’t understand
breed is literally bred to increase aggression over hundreds of generations
absolute bullshit, unless they're being bred by chuds for dogfights (despicable) this is not a thing
The term "pit bull" literally refers to a type of dog that has a history of fighting in pits. It's in their name. They are a despicable breed that people should stop breeding. You're so close to understanding...
You’re so close to understanding…
you're so close to being human.
They are being human, they want to protect their fellow humans from a violent dog breed that is disproportionately responsible for owner and family deaths.
IMHO, it's not the breed, it's the training and owner.
Your humble opinion notwithstanding, Bully dogs are demonstrably more dangerous than other breeds of dogs. It's not some irrational fear, these dogs make up 66% of all fatal dog attacks. Pick any deceased dog attack victim, and it was a Bully or a Rottweiler that killed them.
Training is important and can make a difference in outcomes, but the data overwhelmingly points to aggression and lethality between different dog breeds being a matter of nature more than nurture, and that Bully dogs are on the far end of both spectrums leading to the worst outcomes.
This entire article, which I have seen before, strawmans the issue by pretending that a ban on breeding and adoption is supposed to instantly solve fatal dog bite issues, and that short-term data from a failed small-scale direct-enforcement program (throwing the cops at the problem) is some sort of proof that restrictions don't work.
The reality is that banning the breeding and adoption of pit bulls would result in a long term reduction in the breed. You can even grandfather existing pit bull owners out of the ban and avoid direct enforcement against people's pets, because you only need 12-14 years before the majority of pitbulls in the world were born after the ban, and at that point you can just enforce the law when illegal dogs are found.
If one breed is responsible for 66% of all fatal attacks, and you significantly decrease the number of dogs of that breed, there will be fewer fatal dog attacks. A ban absolutely would work, it just won't feel good to condemn unwanted pit bulls to euthanasia so that other breeds can be prioritized for adoption.
And when there is a fatal dog attack by a banned breed, we can hit the owner with murder charges since someone died in the commission of a crime.
By that logic, then ban humans, we kill more humans than any other animal.
How on earth does anything I said logically conclude to "ban humans"?
It's like you don't even take your own position seriously making arguments like this.
It's your shitty logic mate, just pointing it out.
I'm curious why you feel so strongly on this situation. Like genuinely, I want to know your side. Your reasoning.
if Todd really cared about people, he'd reduce harm in a way that would actually help; persecuting a particular breed of dogs because their owners don't spay/neuter and train them is asinine.
OK, but you can't train a dog to not attack a person correct?
OK, but you can’t train a dog to not attack a person correct?
uh, I can't parse this word salad, it's double negative pie
???
My dogs have never attacked anyone. I have a staffy/pit mix. live in the US. it's one of the most gentle and kindhearted dogs I've ever had; she's a meat-missile but is more gentle with the kids than my dalmation (passed) or hound dog.
Most dogs don't attack people. The owners should be held accountable for their shitty stewardship of their animal. And anyone who trains animals to fight should be stoned in public, but that's just my opinion.
People, overwhelmingly, kill way more people than pit bulls.
If your breed requires special training to not maul you or others to death, then that just proves the point of the breed being dangerous and that it should be outlawed. But please, continue to make some more bullshit excuses.
If your breed requires special training to not maul you or others to death,
where is this indicated?
My brother/sister in dogs: 30,000ish years ago, some fucking wolf/dingo/mongrel-mutt threw their lot in with ours. We have, mutually, benefitted enormously. I love dogs and trust a lot more of them than I do humans to do the right thing. This isn't developed anecdotally, it's a lifetime of dogs as part of our family, and operating around working dogs in the military. They deserve our respect, and training is one part of any dog's life that humans need to learn. Most training isn't for the dog, it's for the family members.
I'd recommend anyone with any dog go through training, whether a specific program or simply to acclimate the animal to your house (where and when we go outside and who's food is who's etc.,) but also to train them to react and behave in awkward situations. I've had toddlers lurch across the room, grab my dog's faces and and poke at their eyes - and the toddlers got licked.
Special training? YOU SHOULD TRAIN YOUR ANIMALS PERIOD. you wouldn't trust a cat to behave around a toddler, a dog, a parrot (nearly lost a finger meeting a white parrot once!), hells man/ma'am...
apply some sense to it all.
where is this indicated?
In the fact that this keeps on happening even with experienced owners.
it's putting words into my mouth, I never indicated any such thing.
want to make a point? don't use me as your sock puppet to do it, be adult enough to make your own assertions sport.
My brother in buddy, they weren't putting words in your mouth. They were using outside factors to answer a question you made.
Want to talk down to someone? How about doing it to someone without having to make erroneous assumptions and jumping the defensive gun? Be adult enough to not belittle people like this chief.
I wouldn't waste my time talking down to you, sport.
Preciate you sweetheart. 😘
The bullshit excuses part was rhetorical I think. You didn't actually have to answer that part.
Dishonest statement. That's like saying "Any ceiling fan can decapitate you". Technically true, but so extraordinarily unlikely for most breeds that you should be more worried about car crashes if you fear for your life...
Animals are still animals. It isn't dishonest to say that we should respect them and their space through understanding and recognizing their behavior. Don't allow your love for an animal cloud the basic judgment that every animal may have its moment. Don't be afraid, just be aware.
All animals, including humans.
Are there some horribly distempered ceiling fan brands I need to watch out for?
Probably
I have a head canon now about your username origin that you, at least once in your life, had to face a horribly distempered ceiling fan, but just don't remember it because of the capitation.
That's a nice cover story, but you know what you did to me with your head cannon.
Thanks for the webpage with the endlessly spinning loading bar
I'd be careful with such stuff bought directly via temu or alibaba.
"I don't understand. I bought a ceiling fan with razor edge blades to scare off burglars, but it fell down and decapitated grandma"
When I asked them about the fan’s history, all they would tell me it is got shipped up here from Texas
Are there some horribly distempered ceiling fan brands I need to watch out for?
ceiling fan breeds
This one time I was dealing with an exhaust system that split to two separate paths. The blowers were so powerful that if one was on it could move the other backwards which caused the VFD on the other one to fault. It was pretty cool.
You should worry about ones like that.
Ban fully semiautomatic assault fans
But yeah, I deal with Delta/Sanyo Denki fans from time to time and I’m not volunteering to get anywhere near them
Any breed can produce a dog that is prone to snap.
Some breeds are much more likely to do so.
Of those, only a few are both prone to snap and large enough to hurt you.
Oh those, pit bills are far and away the most aggressive.
That said, most pitbulls really are fine. For being the most dangerous breed, there are millions of pitbulls, and a few thousand incidents over a few years.
pit bulls were bred so that when they bite you, they don't let go.
Why do people go out of their way to defend Pitbulls? This is a breed created by us, to hunt, kill, bite and never let go. They should not be used at pets. There are literarily thousands of good gentle dogs looking for homes, we don't need to defend Pitbulls or keep breeding them.
Any ceiling fan can fall unexpectedly, but only an absurdly sturdy and powerful one will decapitate someone when it comes down
I was about to say, you would need a LOT of force for a fan blade to cut through your neck meat all the way through. A domestic ceiling fan capable of decapitating someone would be completely excessive.
If a tiny dig nips at you most people laugh it off and you get a break in the skin at most. Happens all the time and no one blinks. If that happens and your dog is 90lbs you can die. Definitely not "extraordinarily unlikely"...just inconsequential for most breeds/sizes.
I don't think any ceiling fan could decapitate me. They are blunt wooden blades and the motor is like 1/3 HP but usually not on full.
So it's like saying, "any fan might hit you in the head, don't put a metal sharp-bladed industrial exhaust fan on your bedroom ceiling."
and the two registered dogs were safely seized having been contained inside a room, a spokesperson for the Metropolitan police said.
What is confusing about this?
It's a joke referencing American cops often shooting dogs for no reason
Oh. In this case I’m guessing the dogs would be euthanized anyway, and probably even justified in being shot. This isn’t the SWAT teams weekly accidental break in to the wrong house.
Accidental? These guys are bursting in on the basis of a VoIP phone call originating from behind a VPN.
american police would have shot the dogs claiming "there was nothing we could do, we where scared they'd break through the door and eat us"
If she was unable to control them, she should not have gotten permission to own them in the first place.
Definitely think owning dogs should require a license and a test of some sort like driving a vehicle.
Can't control a 120lb dog? Class B license instead of Class A license.
Only allowed to buy dogs under 100lbs.
Don't understand how feeding and training works? No license for you.
Licenses for being able to own non-fixed animals as well. Being able to breed dogs and cats needs to come with way more responsibility as well.
Now do kids.
👮
i think murder is already illegal
There should be, but I expect the unintended consequence is a severe drop in birth rate.
The unintended consequence is genocide. When people need permission to reproduce that introduces a convenient method to keep certain people from having kids.
I think that's the point.
There are some people who just definitely don't have the wherewithal to be parents. They can barely look after themselves, often they don't look after themselves.
Part of the test would be to ask if you plan to name your kid after a Game Of Thrones character.
unintended consequence desirable effect
Not always. See Japan and Korea, for instance.
Let's hope they figure out how to reduce population gracefully. It's important to save the planet.
The problem is not reducing population, it's to have our economic system be able to cope with population reduction instead of just collapsing. Do you think we have any hope of changing it for the better?
Do you think we have any hope of changing it for the better?
We do by working towards post scarcity and transitioning away from capitalism
And if they try to stop it we force the transitioning
We could also just move to space, we have the tech to start this process
How is that bad? Less pollution and garbage, no need for as much housing (thus dropping house prices), no need for as many stores, vehicles, resources.
And less shitty parents, less homeless people, less crime. I see that as an absolute win.
It TOTALLY won't be structured in a way to keep people of certain classes unrelated to child rearing ability from essentially reproducing at all.
And this is why we can't have nice things democracy.
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
It was almost 100 years ago, but yeah, everything leads to Hitler eventually.
No... no. Not everything, but rhetoric like in your comment.
You're literally cheering on eugenics, with a false hope of what it would achieve.
Alright, I should have prefaced this with "I assume society is working, there is no racism, corruption, non-cis non-hetero people have sufficient rights, and the government is working as intended."
Of course, unfeasible right now.
There is no need, birthrates are already falling.
But the ones breeding shouldn't be...
Now do whatnow!? Are we still doing phrasing? That still a thing?
The Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 was amended to ban XL bully dogs in February 2024 unless an exemption certificate is held. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-66775985
What if a dog grows over 100 american freedom units (lbs)
I'm assuming the fact that dogs grow would probably be accounted for in the license. It's a well documented phenomenon.
I wonder if Lemmy will be any more Normal about dogs than snoosite was
Update: prognosis is not looking good
This must have flown right by me, but what was Reddit's attitude?
There is at least an entire sub dedicated to hating on pit bulls. I think multiple subs. During its time a few years ago, one specific sub could make it to the top of r/all with 10,000+ upvotes.
Reddit really doesn't like pit bulls.
You're in for a treat, as Internet Comment Etiquette with Erik released a video last week, where he actually goes into those REddit dog subs. If you're unfamiliar with this channel, please know it's entirely satire, most of the time. Well worth a watch!
Yeah they're here too. I think there's a huge overlap in the demographics of reddit, this site, and really the entire Internet - white American dudes over ~35 . I've learned a lot about these people this demographic during my time on the web (mainly from places like reddit)
"All pits are violent and will maul any passing child." It was pretty annoying.
pitbulls are disproportionately predisposed to all kinds of violence/mauling. Even though it's not their fails since they were specifically bred for that purpose.
I should remind my pitbull of that fact then. He’s super sweet around children, guess he forgot to attack them all this time 🤷♂️
Not against pits (have a sweet 5 year old brindle boxer-pit mix myself), just was indicating what a lot of redditors basically would basically say whenever the whole idea of pits was brought up, and how I was almost always annoyed by it because it was in the realm of absolutes (pit mixes can be aggressive, but in fairness I've seen a few traditionally easy breeds be super aggressive). Apparently that seems to have been continued on lemmy as well. For reference, I'm talking about someone posting a vid or a pic of a pit mix doing something cute or innocuous and then one of the top comments would be how violent pits are.
What would you do if your pitbull hurt a child?
Probably delete the comment for one
It would never happen, the same as if I owned any other large breed. I would take extra care with my dog around anyone.
Note: My girl has never even looked at anything angrily, she will aggressively sniff you though!
Dogs? Yes. Satan incarnates born to kill? No.
Refreshing to see actual discussion rather than the trite copy and paste "oh gee whizz I wonder what the breed it" posts
I can absolutely tell you the pitbull hate has arrived. I have 3 wonderful pits who adore our 10yr and 6yr niece and nephew. They cuddle up with them like teddy bears everytime they come over but according to people here, they want to maul the kids faces off...
How people can't understand that it's not the dog, it's the trainer and environment the dog is brought up in.
There is no reason to own a breed line that. You are just selfish.
Where's the line? Should normal people also not be able to have German Shepard's since they're also dangerous if not raised properly? I had a GS in the past and she was one of the best dogs I've ever had, amazing and funny personality and insanely loveable. But that's because she was brought up in a house where she was treated right and raised right.
Blame the dumbass owners not the dogs themselves ffs. Just because you or someone else is scared of certain dogs doesn't mean they should be blanket banned for everyone.
Nobody is blaming the dogs. The humans that bred then to have the instinct to never let go until their prey is dead, they are the bad guys here. It's a bit like how pugs are fraught with health problems their whole lives because people think their funny faces are cute. Not their fault, but they have to live with it.
XL bullies aren't evil. They're just doing what their breed does. Unfortunately what their breed does ends up killing people quite often.
Or the opposite. I have had 2 rescues that have been amazing. The second has been a ton of work but it's well worth it because he is one of the most loving and affectionate dogs I have ever met. I also believe that not just anyone should own a bully breed (or many other breeds of dogs for that matter).
In my neighborhood, it's 2 Golden's that are always running free and wreaking havoc on other dogs and people. Meanwhile we have the 'dangerous one' because he is a pit. Our dog is not permitted outside the house without supervision and a lead if we're outside the fence (still supervised in the fenced in area). The one time he got out I yelled 'heel' and he came right back. Meanwhile, the goldens chase us (and most other residents) into our own yard while the own stands still from his garage just yelling at them but the goldens don't care. They just bark and snarl and encroach in our (and others) yard.
I argue it's the opposite of selfish. Giving time, money, and resources to care and save an animal that was abandoned doesn't exactly seem selfish.
I'm all for rescuing as many dogs as we can as a society (regardless of breed), but serious thought and planning needs to be in place as there are a lot of incapable people out there.
It's a statistics thing. Sure training has a lot to do with it, but these were dogs bred to be aggressive and thus are more likely to be aggressive, with equal training. On top of that, they were bred to be big and strong. So when they do attack, they can do a lot more damage.
It's a dangerous combo. Yes I've known some super sweet ones. But there are so many other god breeds out there that score high on human compatibility and sociability with other dogs...the question is why even get higher risk dogs?
Statistically the breed is misidentified as well leading to many 'pitbull' attacks not being actual pitbulls. Again, I'm not saying they're not dangerous or that just anyone should own one but they should be treated like any other dog of their ilk. Rotts, German Shepards, Cane Corsos, Dobermanns, all are capable of massive damage but there aren't nearly as many of those in need of a good home and good guidance. The problem is there are SO MANY pitbulls. By adopting one, I'm helping save a life since they are killed in shelters so much earlier than other breeds. Just like I'm not having kids and if I change my mind one day, I'll adopt. I can adopt a dog that is at-risk and turn around their life, why wouldn't I?
Has those Goldens’ havoc ever involved spilled blood?
Not yet but the neighbors German shepherd did bite our late dog's noise and cause a laceration when they were first getting introduced. I don't blame the dog. They had just rescued it and still needed socialization (our dog was just fine and it was a controlled environment).
I also have been bitten by a German shepherd that was a family's dog. That one actually needed stitches. But again, it was a rescue and had a terrible temperament. They had the dog for a while but it was terribly trained and they shouldn't have had the dog as they couldn't control it.
Our neighbor's dog is so sweet and just needed some work. I'm not sure what happened to the other dog but I didn't want to press chargers or anything. It's just a dog that needed cared for by someone capable.
Despite having bad experiences with German shepherds, I would never say it's a problem with the breed. That's just prejudice and ignorant.
Honest question. Why do you think aggression isn't a trait that can be selectively bred for or against? Surely you agree other traits can be bred -- herding and pointing, to use some common examples.
I bet that was the lady's thoughts too.
“They’ve never killed me before!”
Because pitbulls can be raised in a loving environment with great humans and you can do everything right and the pitbull can still be set off or triggered by something many years into its peaceful life and suddenly start attacking people. They can have a moment where they simply snap, and given their strength and determination, that's dangerous and horrifying.
And people who consciously decide to keep them in their own household, with their own children, are willfully ignorant or downright evil.
Why can’t you understand that being capable of snuggling does not make a pitbull incapable of killing.
To claim that it's entirely environmental is to flaunt longstanding understanding on how genetics works. Nobody looks at border collies, with their high intelligence, and say "oh it's just environment", or chihuahuas being territorial little shits and say "oh it's just environment". These dogs were ENGINEERED to be this way, it's in their bones.
Pitbulls have been specifically bred for their toughness, their aggression, their locking jaw, and because you happened to get a couple good ones doesn't invalidate the fact that they are statistically one of the most dangerous breeds to own.
The fact that you just cited the completely made up "locking jaw" myth really shows how valid and researched your opinion is on this topic...
The fact you misrepresented their point to make it sound like a gotcha moment says more about you then the person you replied to.
Hate in general is mostly irrational and sadly propaganda plays into the tribalistic nature of humans.
Didn't even need to put the breed in the title, we already know.
That's very naive. There's plenty of breeds of dogs that kill people.
Yeah, that’s true, but in the UK XL Bullies specifically have been doing all the maulings recently that have generated serious press coverage; also they themselves have just been added as the sixth (?) banned canine breed in the UK.
Very sorry for the life of this lady.
Shitbulls should be banned.
From the article
From 1 February, it became a criminal offence to own the XL bully breed in England and Wales without an exemption certificate. Anyone who owns one of the dogs must have had the animal neutered, have it microchipped and keep it muzzled and on a lead in public, among other restrictions.
So I'm guessing she got them before they were banned and had an exception so she didn't have to have them destroyed.
Or didn't and simply flouted the law.
There's a stereotype of people who own those breed(s) for a reason.
The article did mention them as "registered", so I don't think this applies.
Yeah I saw that but found it strange that it seemed to distinguish between registered dogs and certified owners.
Maybe they just had runescape accounts.
The lady across the street from us used to own a small dog, I think it passed and she recently got an XL bully. She struggles to walk it, always looks angry with the dog, it's always barking and glaring at me and my family. I have been carrying my gun more recently because I'm waiting for the day that dog decides to try to make a meal out of my two-year-old.
Why are dognuts the way they are? Just get a fucking pom.
Gun nuts are worse
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The woman, who was in her 50s, was pronounced dead at the scene in Cornwall Close, Hornchurch, and the two registered dogs were safely seized having been contained inside a room, a spokesperson for the Metropolitan police said.
A spokesperson for the Met said: “Police were called to Cornwall Close around 1.12pm … to reports of a woman attacked by a dog.
“These were registered XL bully dogs and prior to officers’ arrival had been contained inside a room in the house.
From 1 February, it became a criminal offence to own the XL bully breed in England and Wales without an exemption certificate.
Footage of an XL bully dog attacking members of the public in the street in Birmingham, including a 11-year-old girl who sustained shoulder and arm injuries, prompted an outcry in September.
In November 2021, 10-year-old Jack Lis was mauled to death by a seven-stone XL bully dog called Beast.
The original article contains 344 words, the summary contains 153 words. Saved 56%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Idk if it's the same everywhere but in my experience in America I have came across a huge range of canine breeds owned by a huge range of human breeds (quality of person) and 100% of the time the human was a caring person that loved their dog the breed is unnoticeable. On the other side, when the human is subpar the breed of the dog is more noticeable as an inverse correlation to how shitty the person is.
This is the dog equivalent of "guns don't kill people, people kill people."
But without the gun, no one would be killed by the gun.
But without the gun, no one would be killed by the gun.
... those ones not killed by the gun would be killed by the next lethal device in place of it, it is the will which drives the action, not the device
Guns are essentially magic spears. They pierce with great force at very large distances. The next down are toys in comparison.
Lmao but at least next lethal device isn’t something that has sole purpose of killing people.
Like how stupid you have to be… guns only and one numbero uno purpose is killing people. And they are fucking good at it, nothing else comes close.
A knife? Bitch please you have to get close, grab the victim and stab many times. It’s easier to run away from a blade than from a fucking bullet unless you are Neo.
What’s the purpose of legal gun ownership?? To defend against legal gun ownership. It’s a fucking ouroboros of stupidity.
Your opinion is not grounded in fact as represented by statistics from a wide range of countries.
The will cannot drive the action without the tool.
Then it will be something else.
Mind I'm not defending the free-guns-for-all policy so dear to a sadly large part of americans, I'm just saying that the tool is not the real issue, that one would be the finality of the action and the fecklessness, the morbidly carelessness and yet horrible thoroughness, attached to the though of ending or seriously harming another person. That one is a cultural problem, and very deep.
Sure guns were instrumental to spread and nourishing such culture, but if it wasn't the gun then the will to kill would have been manifested through the next available tool.
What next tool are you talking about?
Guns are specifically designed to kill people as quickly and efficiently as possible and at great distance. Take that tool away and you put some serious limits on the will to kill.
Guns are the easiest method to kill people with. A spree stabber isnt going to kill and main NEAR as many people before they are dealt with as a spree shooter will
Cripes, what kind of a dick do you have to be to your own dogs to get attacked by them?
Sometimes the breed temperament has more to do with it than anything else….
But also assholes all seem to like the same breed so….
Breed temperament is a thing, but all dogs can be good dogs. Most are good with only slight work. People get a breed they can’t handle and no one’s happy.
It pains me to say this as a great dog lover, and someone that has known some very loving pitbulls, Sadly not all dogs can be good dogs.
Like people, some are just born as “assholes”
But yes, breed temperament is a thing. Not an absolute thing, but still a thing.
My buddy legit owns a dire wolf (half wolf, half dog) and never had a problem in the last ten years. He owns a large chunk of property so the dog isn't restricted to one room in an apartment in the city, and he knows how to handle a large animal. I will say one thing, that thing commands respect, it's easily 7 foot from back paws to front paws.
Even pitbulls are safe in the right hands. Fuck it, tigers and lions and silverback gorillas are safe in the right environment.
However a proper education in caring for the animals aswell as proper enclosures and a knowledge of the animal and its needs….
Yes you CAN do it, but should Tom from down the street have his own pitbull army and alligator pool in his back yard?
Hard pass.
I’m sure some people can do it safely, but training, registration, safety, etc…. Ban them all as pets unless you get X license, like a gun.
You barely need to pass a background check to get a gun, lol. It's harder to get a driver's license. I'm not saying your wrong, just using a gun as reference is not the best comparison. If your doing private transfer of gun ownership, which is completely legal in most states, the background check is irrelevant.
I’m Canadian…. Slightly different standards.
I'm unfamiliar with Canadian law but I bet if your friend or neighbor wanted to sell a gun and you wanted to buy, the background check process would be a lot easier than if you went to a retailer like Walmart or whatever, and would probably still be considered legal.
When my step dad died, it was a difficult process trying to legally sell his hand guns.
You can't buy guns from Walmart here either. That's so strange that you can where you're from.
Also guns are inanimate objects
They might be inanimate objects but they are much more destructive than dogs. Can a dog kill you? Yes. Can a gun kill you? Yes, but a gun is much more likely to get the job done than a dog.
Actually all a gun can do is sit there. There is zero chance of your gun killing you. You might accidentally kill yourself with it, but the gun is never going to kill you.
There is no evidence that she was being terrible towards the dogs
Some dogs can just snap and decide to not be nice one day, its a good reason you don't let dogs you've seen be calm interact with babies because it only takes a small amount of the dog not being nice to end up harming a baby
Older people have a better chance of surviving dog attacks but the chance isn't 100% and cases like this can happen
And if I recall correctly this breed is more prone to aggressiveness
I doubt it. Not walking them enough, keeping them cooped up, no outlets - especially if they weren’t fixed. Sad all around, but the dogs are not hatching evil plans, they’re just dogs.
Spay and neuter. Spay and neuter. And adopt.
Dogs that snapped are not being evil, it's just them acting on instinct. It's doesn't make them bad dogs, but it does make them dangerous.
Dogs can still have the potential to snap regardless if you've given them a good life
They could just snap from having a tantrum
Some dogs get older and I assume confused and just snap. My grandmother's dog, sweetest girl, golden retriever, service dog, previously good with other animals and cats. My Grandmom brought home a kitten and the dog mauled it. Do not trust dogs. Just like people they can do something totally out of character.
The kind of dick that keeps dogs like that in the first place.
She was probably made of meat
people should be required to have really serious animal rescue and psychology training to get one of these dogs (or else astronomical punishment). most people who get these dogs do so on a whim and because of their own unresolved ego issues.
Some are good boys that need a home. We adopted a dog of unknown breed, they had his mom (who looked like a black mouth cur), who came in from a kill shelter pregnant.
I still don't know what breed he is, really don't care to find out. But he has a lot of bully features. Big puffy chest. Blocky head. Strong jaw. Smart. Highly emotional.
And he's a fucking marshmallow. An 80lb slobbery marshmallow.
The best dog I ever had was a pit. Sweet as pie, just wanted to cuddle and love. We chose him because he was a big meaty guy with the most adorable face you'd ever seen, and because he needed a home ASAP. We'd take him on walks and people would cat call him from passing cars, or literally stop us and ask if they could dog-sit. He spent nearly a decade with us, just loving and farting and cuddling and snoring.
He really didn't need any help to become a great dog, except that I needed to train him that the cat was a friend and not something to chase and put our mouth on. That took all of a weekend, and that was after he'd been abandoned and abused for half a year before we got him. I know it's not true for every individual, but many times all a dog really needs a a good home with people that love it.
like with every "complex" living being there is of course a large spectrum. But to be on the safe side though anyone who wants to get a pit should be able to fairly certainly understand when a dog is stressed via physical cues and should be able to tell when a de-escalation is needed. And I am not talking about "I had dogs all my life I know what I am doing" kind of thing. More like if you are getting a pit from a shelter you should be required to get some serious mandatory training from a professional. This will (along with fines) will maybe help deter people who get pits for the sake of owning a ferocious dog.
Those who toy with the devil are sure to get burned, huh?
"XL bully dogs"? Have we stopped saying "pit bull" because of and I never got the memo?
Large dog breeds need to be trained very carefully. My friends have a 100 lbs husky, just a massive wolf looking dog. When he was a pup, he was food protective, so they made sure to train that behavior completely out of Steel(the dog).
In the present day, Steel is 8 years old, in the prime of his physical size and health, and the sweetest boi. With different owners, he'd have negative habits that lead his behaviour and made him dangerous.
Shocking
It always ends up the the dogs are kept in the yard or kenneled the entire time
i get that some dogs just have a naturally high prey and aggression drive but a lot of times it has to do with learned behavior at home too :(
This. She must have been giving them treats whenever they killed her.
Probably not, but just giving them attention (positive or negative) whenever they killed her, causing them to associate it with being engaged with
Some dogs can also just snap by throwing a tantrum even when their owners take good care of them
Some dogs will tear up a couch when they have a tantrum, maybe bully dogs tear up people when having a tantrum
No, it's the video games fault!
/s
Ban pitbulls everywhere
Ban bad owners
Make it so you need to have proven you can properly take care of one/need a license to own one. But also, neuter/spay all existing ones so no more can be born. They’ve suffered enough from human stupidity, and there are plenty of other dogs out there to choose from that need love.
Ban both
Here's a proposal: First, all dog breeding is regulated as strictly as bars with liquor licenses. Criminal charges and jail time if found doing it illegally.
Breeders and owners are required to have insurance coverage specific to dogs.
Owners are held liable for all damages their dog causes, no matter what. Your dog attacks somebody, mauls them and they seek settlement? It's on the owners. If the owner cannot be determined, the breeder is held liable.
Or, just make dogs above say, 30 pounds illegal. "But what if your dog is little and just really fat and becomes over 30 pounds?" Then you are fined and told to get your dog healthy within a certain timeframe, say 90 days, or surrender the dog and pay a fine for neglect, or get charged with animal abuse.
"Well then, nobody would want to get/breed dogs that are anywhere close to 30 pounds full grown because of the risk of violating the law." Yes...that's good. The only dogs people would have are small dogs that can't severely maul/kill people even if they do go off the rails.
"But what about hunters or sportspeople that use dogs to hunt or herd?" Plenty of herding/hunting dogs are within that 30 pound weight range, like Corgis or Beagles. Obviously there would be exceptions for government organizations that use large dogs for legitimate purposes like Saint Bernards for search and rescue.
"But muh gawd damn riaghts!!!" go cry about it.
He's a proposal: you don't need new Draconian laws every time something bad happens. That's how politicians pass every bad law. Patriot act ring any bells?
Go contemplate.
Should be distributed laws, not centralized, but you're a statist, so this convo won't go any further.
this convo won't go any further
You're right about that, which is all that matters here.
In this thread, a fine demonstration of how hatred stems from fear which stems from ignorance and lack of experience, and a general lack of grasp on probs and stats. Par for the course.
Well how about enlightening people oh wise one instead of moaning
I'm only here to help support an opinion counter to the masses. I'm not a professor. If I were, I wouldn't be in the comment section.
It's always good to have someone with a stupid opinion to unite everyone else.
I hope you don't talk to the people in your actual personal life this way.
Only my closest friends
But got haven't presented a counter opinion to support. All you've done is complain about something you don't like.
I mean, it's never the labrador that is in the news killing people.
Almost as if a few hundred years of selective breeding for blood sports to an animal that is exceedingly fast at adapting might make it predisposed to... uhm... kicking off.
If my dogs ever tried to kill me, I’d just pin them both down. That’s the benefit of not having insanely powerful dogs.
IMO you shouldn’t have a dog that you can’t physically restrain. Any dog can snap and you need to be able to physically stop them if that happens.
Does Lemmy has a Ban Pitbulls community yet?
So huge dogs should just remain ownerless?
I agree in the sense that some dog breeds aren't necessary and are actively unhealthy for the animal and the breed should be allowed to die out removing the ability for people to be owners of those breeds, and therefore ownerless
They said only own dogs you can overpower. That means nobody gets a St. Bernard. I don't think St. Bernard is a breed that should die out.
My St. Bernard, Rosie, would agree. She's such a big scaredy cat.
This seems nuts. Is this not an insane opinion? You want entire dog breeds to go extinct? What are your thoughts on that one governor lady? lol
Yes? I am not sure I understand what is making you upset. I am not saying kill all the pitbulls, I am saying stop dog eugenics and let dogs just be dogs and love the animal that comes out. If that means that we stop having access to purebred (inbred) Pugs, so be it. Mutts are just as good doggos.
Idk why you think I'm upset. I'm more shocked than anything.
I would think most people tend to support conservation of different animals and whatnot, except for maybe mosquitoes (and even then I'd be hesitant). It's also blowing my mind that you're heavily upvoted. I had no idea some of y'all thought this way.
That said, I'm just going to assume I don't fully understand what you're saying since it seems so batshit crazy to me. It's clear this isn't really an honest, open dialogue anyway, and that's totally fine
Not the OP, but let me step in. Dog breeds are something we have created as humans, they're not wild species that need to be preserved and don't have any effect on ecosystems.
Dog breeding is largely negative at this point as most breeds have outlived their original use and are now seen as designer pets. We continue to breed them as there is continued demand, but quite often these breeds are so inbred that they have genetic health issues. We also oversupply and don't fix/neuter enough, meaning there are always unwanted dogs without homes.
I love dogs, but all of mine have been rescues and I would have no problem with the vast majority of breeds being phased out. There are still some niche cases where dogs are actually used for their breed's purpose (dog sled, search/rescue, hunting, etc) but no, I don't think a chihuahua or a pug should exist and would not be sad if breeders stopped producing more.
Thanks for sharing your POV. It's definitely the first time I've heard something that radical about dogs, which are basically the most beloved living thing in the US, but I can somewhat understand where you're coming from.
I'd definitely support making it more difficult to own a dog, but mostly because many of the dog owners I've met are borderline abusive to their pets (I'm mainly thinking of neglect here). I don't think I could ever support a ban on entire breeds. That's where it starts to seem crazy to me. Make it a felony to own a dog that bites someone or something but don't make it a felony to simply own the dog. We don't even have such laws for people that own guns or swords and surely those lead to more deaths/injuries than dogs.
I feel I should clarify that I don't hold this position because dogs are dangerous or think it should be harder to have a dog. I hold it because I think our breeding programs are creating a lot of animal suffering.
From puppy mills where dogs are kept in horrible conditions, to overproduction of animals so that there aren't enough homes, to propagating breeds that can barely breath so that they have an "adorable" face. Dog breeding is exploitative and re-enforces that dogs are simply a commodity.
I'm not sure a law making it more difficult to own a dog would have the effect you intend, as there are already too many dogs in need of homes. I think a more palatable middle ground to elimination would be regulation of breeders to ensure that they are not producing more dogs than can be homed.
There's a difference between that and policies that discourage breeding, etc.
I don't see many people advocating to outright kill dogs. There are a ton of pits in every shelter and yet people still run backyard breeding operations or tell everyone to get a pit. The breed would be better served if we told people they were more of an advanced breed that need the right kind of owners and environment.
I noticed my guinea pigs have never tried to murder me. Granted in a home invasion they are pretty useless. Unless I like throw their squeaky bodies at said invader or overpower him and make him drink from the water dish as vengeance.
They should require a license to own and a reason to be bred
They should be put down.
Send 'em to God.
You are condoning killing dogs simply in response to their size?
I bet more cows are killed in a year than all shelter dogs on earth.
So, for most folks, the "no death" argument is silly
Cows are killed for meat. Are you suggesting we should kill dogs for their meat?
Yes they were clearly suggesting that. Any honest reading would have arrived at that conclusion.
What is the difference between a cow and a dog that killing either is okay?
Cow farms supply food for humans. I'm not saying that's the most ethical thing in the world, but it is done. Would dogs serve the same purpose? They would produce less, lower quality meat per head.
Oh, from an efficiency standpoint.
Dogs aren't put down for their meat, so the discussion of the acceptability of putting dogs down is not based on their meat.
Thus, the point is about humans simply killing animals.
This isn't about the human imposed utility, it's about if it's fine for humans to decide what animals live and die. Humans don't need beef to live, there are other foods, so humans make a human centric choice to kill cows.
Since humans are deciding what animals.live, based purely on human wants, why would dogs be free of that assessment?
any animal can snap.
I guess you don't think people should have st. bernards or great danes? I mean, I'm not suggesting people keep wolves or lions as pets, but this bully dog fearmongering is out of control. IMHO, it's not the breed, it's the training and owner.
absolute bullshit, unless they're being bred by chuds for dogfights (despicable) this is not a thing
The term "pit bull" literally refers to a type of dog that has a history of fighting in pits. It's in their name. They are a despicable breed that people should stop breeding. You're so close to understanding...
you're so close to being human.
They are being human, they want to protect their fellow humans from a violent dog breed that is disproportionately responsible for owner and family deaths.
Your humble opinion notwithstanding, Bully dogs are demonstrably more dangerous than other breeds of dogs. It's not some irrational fear, these dogs make up 66% of all fatal dog attacks. Pick any deceased dog attack victim, and it was a Bully or a Rottweiler that killed them.
Training is important and can make a difference in outcomes, but the data overwhelmingly points to aggression and lethality between different dog breeds being a matter of nature more than nurture, and that Bully dogs are on the far end of both spectrums leading to the worst outcomes.
https://www.aspcapro.org/resource/are-breed-specific-laws-effective#:~:text=84%20percent%20were%20maintained%20by,to%20interact%20with%20children%20unsupervised.
This entire article, which I have seen before, strawmans the issue by pretending that a ban on breeding and adoption is supposed to instantly solve fatal dog bite issues, and that short-term data from a failed small-scale direct-enforcement program (throwing the cops at the problem) is some sort of proof that restrictions don't work.
The reality is that banning the breeding and adoption of pit bulls would result in a long term reduction in the breed. You can even grandfather existing pit bull owners out of the ban and avoid direct enforcement against people's pets, because you only need 12-14 years before the majority of pitbulls in the world were born after the ban, and at that point you can just enforce the law when illegal dogs are found.
If one breed is responsible for 66% of all fatal attacks, and you significantly decrease the number of dogs of that breed, there will be fewer fatal dog attacks. A ban absolutely would work, it just won't feel good to condemn unwanted pit bulls to euthanasia so that other breeds can be prioritized for adoption.
And when there is a fatal dog attack by a banned breed, we can hit the owner with murder charges since someone died in the commission of a crime.
By that logic, then ban humans, we kill more humans than any other animal.
How on earth does anything I said logically conclude to "ban humans"?
It's like you don't even take your own position seriously making arguments like this.
It's your shitty logic mate, just pointing it out.
I'm curious why you feel so strongly on this situation. Like genuinely, I want to know your side. Your reasoning.
if Todd really cared about people, he'd reduce harm in a way that would actually help; persecuting a particular breed of dogs because their owners don't spay/neuter and train them is asinine.
OK, but you can't train a dog to not attack a person correct?
uh, I can't parse this word salad, it's double negative pie
???
My dogs have never attacked anyone. I have a staffy/pit mix. live in the US. it's one of the most gentle and kindhearted dogs I've ever had; she's a meat-missile but is more gentle with the kids than my dalmation (passed) or hound dog.
Most dogs don't attack people. The owners should be held accountable for their shitty stewardship of their animal. And anyone who trains animals to fight should be stoned in public, but that's just my opinion.
People, overwhelmingly, kill way more people than pit bulls.
"persecuting" 🤣
too many syllables for you?
With how unhinged you are and your apparent love of bulldogs I'm guessing we're going to see a story about you being murdered by one before long.
whole 'nother breed than what's being discussed here sparky. so uh, whatever. Thanks for wishing me dead, you have a good fuckin night lol.
what an asshole...
If your breed requires special training to not maul you or others to death, then that just proves the point of the breed being dangerous and that it should be outlawed. But please, continue to make some more bullshit excuses.
where is this indicated?
My brother/sister in dogs: 30,000ish years ago, some fucking wolf/dingo/mongrel-mutt threw their lot in with ours. We have, mutually, benefitted enormously. I love dogs and trust a lot more of them than I do humans to do the right thing. This isn't developed anecdotally, it's a lifetime of dogs as part of our family, and operating around working dogs in the military. They deserve our respect, and training is one part of any dog's life that humans need to learn. Most training isn't for the dog, it's for the family members.
I'd recommend anyone with any dog go through training, whether a specific program or simply to acclimate the animal to your house (where and when we go outside and who's food is who's etc.,) but also to train them to react and behave in awkward situations. I've had toddlers lurch across the room, grab my dog's faces and and poke at their eyes - and the toddlers got licked.
Special training? YOU SHOULD TRAIN YOUR ANIMALS PERIOD. you wouldn't trust a cat to behave around a toddler, a dog, a parrot (nearly lost a finger meeting a white parrot once!), hells man/ma'am...
apply some sense to it all.
In the fact that this keeps on happening even with experienced owners.
it's putting words into my mouth, I never indicated any such thing.
want to make a point? don't use me as your sock puppet to do it, be adult enough to make your own assertions sport.
My brother in buddy, they weren't putting words in your mouth. They were using outside factors to answer a question you made.
Want to talk down to someone? How about doing it to someone without having to make erroneous assumptions and jumping the defensive gun? Be adult enough to not belittle people like this chief.
I wouldn't waste my time talking down to you, sport.
Preciate you sweetheart. 😘
The bullshit excuses part was rhetorical I think. You didn't actually have to answer that part.
Dishonest statement. That's like saying "Any ceiling fan can decapitate you". Technically true, but so extraordinarily unlikely for most breeds that you should be more worried about car crashes if you fear for your life...
Animals are still animals. It isn't dishonest to say that we should respect them and their space through understanding and recognizing their behavior. Don't allow your love for an animal cloud the basic judgment that every animal may have its moment. Don't be afraid, just be aware.
All animals, including humans.
Are there some horribly distempered ceiling fan brands I need to watch out for?
Probably
I have a head canon now about your username origin that you, at least once in your life, had to face a horribly distempered ceiling fan, but just don't remember it because of the capitation.
That's a nice cover story, but you know what you did to me with your head cannon.
https://youtu.be/fpaQpyU_QiM?si=QUf5XHkBO5njr69T
(Yeah I know, piped exists but I’ve yet to get it to actually work)
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/fpaQpyU_QiM?si=QUf5XHkBO5njr69T
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Bad bot
Thanks for the webpage with the endlessly spinning loading bar
I'd be careful with such stuff bought directly via temu or alibaba.
"I don't understand. I bought a ceiling fan with razor edge blades to scare off burglars, but it fell down and decapitated grandma"
When I asked them about the fan’s history, all they would tell me it is got shipped up here from Texas
ceiling fan breeds
This one time I was dealing with an exhaust system that split to two separate paths. The blowers were so powerful that if one was on it could move the other backwards which caused the VFD on the other one to fault. It was pretty cool.
You should worry about ones like that.
Ban fully semiautomatic assault fans
But yeah, I deal with Delta/Sanyo Denki fans from time to time and I’m not volunteering to get anywhere near them
Any breed can produce a dog that is prone to snap.
Some breeds are much more likely to do so.
Of those, only a few are both prone to snap and large enough to hurt you.
Oh those, pit bills are far and away the most aggressive.
That said, most pitbulls really are fine. For being the most dangerous breed, there are millions of pitbulls, and a few thousand incidents over a few years.
pit bulls were bred so that when they bite you, they don't let go.
No, no they were not. This is such a stupid myth.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull
https://www.britannica.com/animal/pit-bull
https://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-policy-and-position-statements/position-statement-pit-bulls
You were on a roll until the end...
Why do people go out of their way to defend Pitbulls? This is a breed created by us, to hunt, kill, bite and never let go. They should not be used at pets. There are literarily thousands of good gentle dogs looking for homes, we don't need to defend Pitbulls or keep breeding them.
Any ceiling fan can fall unexpectedly, but only an absurdly sturdy and powerful one will decapitate someone when it comes down
You don't have a Big Ass Fan in your rec room!?
I was about to say, you would need a LOT of force for a fan blade to cut through your neck meat all the way through. A domestic ceiling fan capable of decapitating someone would be completely excessive.
Yep. We're on the same page now!
If a tiny dig nips at you most people laugh it off and you get a break in the skin at most. Happens all the time and no one blinks. If that happens and your dog is 90lbs you can die. Definitely not "extraordinarily unlikely"...just inconsequential for most breeds/sizes.
I don't think any ceiling fan could decapitate me. They are blunt wooden blades and the motor is like 1/3 HP but usually not on full.
So it's like saying, "any fan might hit you in the head, don't put a metal sharp-bladed industrial exhaust fan on your bedroom ceiling."
Hmm, you make a good point.
me not knowing the breed looks them up via DDG
So she was basically mauled by the Demon Dogs from Ghostbusters.
I Bing'd it and it told me to download Microsoft Edge
What is confusing about this?
It's a joke referencing American cops often shooting dogs for no reason
Oh. In this case I’m guessing the dogs would be euthanized anyway, and probably even justified in being shot. This isn’t the SWAT teams weekly accidental break in to the wrong house.
Accidental? These guys are bursting in on the basis of a VoIP phone call originating from behind a VPN.
Dogs Shot by Cops - Animal Legal Defense Fund
(US cops are famous for killing dogs)
american police would have shot the dogs claiming "there was nothing we could do, we where scared they'd break through the door and eat us"
If she was unable to control them, she should not have gotten permission to own them in the first place.
Definitely think owning dogs should require a license and a test of some sort like driving a vehicle.
Can't control a 120lb dog? Class B license instead of Class A license.
Only allowed to buy dogs under 100lbs.
Don't understand how feeding and training works? No license for you.
Licenses for being able to own non-fixed animals as well. Being able to breed dogs and cats needs to come with way more responsibility as well.
Now do kids.
👮
i think murder is already illegal
There should be, but I expect the unintended consequence is a severe drop in birth rate.
The unintended consequence is genocide. When people need permission to reproduce that introduces a convenient method to keep certain people from having kids.
I think that's the point.
There are some people who just definitely don't have the wherewithal to be parents. They can barely look after themselves, often they don't look after themselves.
Part of the test would be to ask if you plan to name your kid after a Game Of Thrones character.
unintended consequencedesirable effectNot always. See Japan and Korea, for instance.
Let's hope they figure out how to reduce population gracefully. It's important to save the planet.
The problem is not reducing population, it's to have our economic system be able to cope with population reduction instead of just collapsing. Do you think we have any hope of changing it for the better?
We do by working towards post scarcity and transitioning away from capitalism
And if they try to stop it we force the transitioning
We could also just move to space, we have the tech to start this process
How is that bad? Less pollution and garbage, no need for as much housing (thus dropping house prices), no need for as many stores, vehicles, resources.
And less shitty parents, less homeless people, less crime. I see that as an absolute win.
It TOTALLY won't be structured in a way to keep people of certain classes unrelated to child rearing ability from essentially reproducing at all.
And this is why we can't have nice
thingsdemocracy.Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
https://time.com/4192760/hitler-munich-excerpt/
It was almost 100 years ago, but yeah, everything leads to Hitler eventually.
No... no. Not everything, but rhetoric like in your comment.
You're literally cheering on eugenics, with a false hope of what it would achieve.
Alright, I should have prefaced this with "I assume society is working, there is no racism, corruption, non-cis non-hetero people have sufficient rights, and the government is working as intended."
Of course, unfeasible right now.
There is no need, birthrates are already falling.
But the ones breeding shouldn't be...
Now do whatnow!? Are we still doing phrasing? That still a thing?
The UK used to have dog licences, but they were abolished in 1987. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/RP98-6/RP98-6.pdf
The Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 was amended to ban XL bully dogs in February 2024 unless an exemption certificate is held. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-66775985
What if a dog grows over 100 american freedom units (lbs)
I'm assuming the fact that dogs grow would probably be accounted for in the license. It's a well documented phenomenon.
I wonder if Lemmy will be any more Normal about dogs than snoosite was
Update: prognosis is not looking good
This must have flown right by me, but what was Reddit's attitude?
There is at least an entire sub dedicated to hating on pit bulls. I think multiple subs. During its time a few years ago, one specific sub could make it to the top of r/all with 10,000+ upvotes.
Reddit really doesn't like pit bulls.
You're in for a treat, as Internet Comment Etiquette with Erik released a video last week, where he actually goes into those REddit dog subs. If you're unfamiliar with this channel, please know it's entirely satire, most of the time. Well worth a watch!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T5NHJq_yeM
Dude, thanks for posting this.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=2T5NHJq_yeM
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Yeah they're here too. I think there's a huge overlap in the demographics of reddit, this site, and really the entire Internet - white American dudes over ~35 . I've learned a lot about
these peoplethis demographic during my time on the web (mainly from places like reddit)"All pits are violent and will maul any passing child." It was pretty annoying.
pitbulls are disproportionately predisposed to all kinds of violence/mauling. Even though it's not their fails since they were specifically bred for that purpose.
I should remind my pitbull of that fact then. He’s super sweet around children, guess he forgot to attack them all this time 🤷♂️
Not against pits (have a sweet 5 year old brindle boxer-pit mix myself), just was indicating what a lot of redditors basically would basically say whenever the whole idea of pits was brought up, and how I was almost always annoyed by it because it was in the realm of absolutes (pit mixes can be aggressive, but in fairness I've seen a few traditionally easy breeds be super aggressive). Apparently that seems to have been continued on lemmy as well. For reference, I'm talking about someone posting a vid or a pic of a pit mix doing something cute or innocuous and then one of the top comments would be how violent pits are.
What would you do if your pitbull hurt a child?
Probably delete the comment for one
It would never happen, the same as if I owned any other large breed. I would take extra care with my dog around anyone.
Note: My girl has never even looked at anything angrily, she will aggressively sniff you though!
Dogs? Yes. Satan incarnates born to kill? No.
Refreshing to see actual discussion rather than the trite copy and paste "oh gee whizz I wonder what the breed it" posts
I can absolutely tell you the pitbull hate has arrived. I have 3 wonderful pits who adore our 10yr and 6yr niece and nephew. They cuddle up with them like teddy bears everytime they come over but according to people here, they want to maul the kids faces off...
How people can't understand that it's not the dog, it's the trainer and environment the dog is brought up in.
There is no reason to own a breed line that. You are just selfish.
Where's the line? Should normal people also not be able to have German Shepard's since they're also dangerous if not raised properly? I had a GS in the past and she was one of the best dogs I've ever had, amazing and funny personality and insanely loveable. But that's because she was brought up in a house where she was treated right and raised right.
Blame the dumbass owners not the dogs themselves ffs. Just because you or someone else is scared of certain dogs doesn't mean they should be blanket banned for everyone.
Nobody is blaming the dogs. The humans that bred then to have the instinct to never let go until their prey is dead, they are the bad guys here. It's a bit like how pugs are fraught with health problems their whole lives because people think their funny faces are cute. Not their fault, but they have to live with it. XL bullies aren't evil. They're just doing what their breed does. Unfortunately what their breed does ends up killing people quite often.
Or the opposite. I have had 2 rescues that have been amazing. The second has been a ton of work but it's well worth it because he is one of the most loving and affectionate dogs I have ever met. I also believe that not just anyone should own a bully breed (or many other breeds of dogs for that matter).
In my neighborhood, it's 2 Golden's that are always running free and wreaking havoc on other dogs and people. Meanwhile we have the 'dangerous one' because he is a pit. Our dog is not permitted outside the house without supervision and a lead if we're outside the fence (still supervised in the fenced in area). The one time he got out I yelled 'heel' and he came right back. Meanwhile, the goldens chase us (and most other residents) into our own yard while the own stands still from his garage just yelling at them but the goldens don't care. They just bark and snarl and encroach in our (and others) yard.
I argue it's the opposite of selfish. Giving time, money, and resources to care and save an animal that was abandoned doesn't exactly seem selfish.
I'm all for rescuing as many dogs as we can as a society (regardless of breed), but serious thought and planning needs to be in place as there are a lot of incapable people out there.
It's a statistics thing. Sure training has a lot to do with it, but these were dogs bred to be aggressive and thus are more likely to be aggressive, with equal training. On top of that, they were bred to be big and strong. So when they do attack, they can do a lot more damage.
It's a dangerous combo. Yes I've known some super sweet ones. But there are so many other god breeds out there that score high on human compatibility and sociability with other dogs...the question is why even get higher risk dogs?
Statistically the breed is misidentified as well leading to many 'pitbull' attacks not being actual pitbulls. Again, I'm not saying they're not dangerous or that just anyone should own one but they should be treated like any other dog of their ilk. Rotts, German Shepards, Cane Corsos, Dobermanns, all are capable of massive damage but there aren't nearly as many of those in need of a good home and good guidance. The problem is there are SO MANY pitbulls. By adopting one, I'm helping save a life since they are killed in shelters so much earlier than other breeds. Just like I'm not having kids and if I change my mind one day, I'll adopt. I can adopt a dog that is at-risk and turn around their life, why wouldn't I?
Has those Goldens’ havoc ever involved spilled blood?
Not yet but the neighbors German shepherd did bite our late dog's noise and cause a laceration when they were first getting introduced. I don't blame the dog. They had just rescued it and still needed socialization (our dog was just fine and it was a controlled environment).
I also have been bitten by a German shepherd that was a family's dog. That one actually needed stitches. But again, it was a rescue and had a terrible temperament. They had the dog for a while but it was terribly trained and they shouldn't have had the dog as they couldn't control it.
Our neighbor's dog is so sweet and just needed some work. I'm not sure what happened to the other dog but I didn't want to press chargers or anything. It's just a dog that needed cared for by someone capable.
Despite having bad experiences with German shepherds, I would never say it's a problem with the breed. That's just prejudice and ignorant.
Honest question. Why do you think aggression isn't a trait that can be selectively bred for or against? Surely you agree other traits can be bred -- herding and pointing, to use some common examples.
I bet that was the lady's thoughts too.
“They’ve never killed me before!”
Because pitbulls can be raised in a loving environment with great humans and you can do everything right and the pitbull can still be set off or triggered by something many years into its peaceful life and suddenly start attacking people. They can have a moment where they simply snap, and given their strength and determination, that's dangerous and horrifying.
And people who consciously decide to keep them in their own household, with their own children, are willfully ignorant or downright evil.
Why can’t you understand that being capable of snuggling does not make a pitbull incapable of killing.
To claim that it's entirely environmental is to flaunt longstanding understanding on how genetics works. Nobody looks at border collies, with their high intelligence, and say "oh it's just environment", or chihuahuas being territorial little shits and say "oh it's just environment". These dogs were ENGINEERED to be this way, it's in their bones.
Pitbulls have been specifically bred for their toughness, their aggression, their locking jaw, and because you happened to get a couple good ones doesn't invalidate the fact that they are statistically one of the most dangerous breeds to own.
The fact that you just cited the completely made up "locking jaw" myth really shows how valid and researched your opinion is on this topic...
The fact you misrepresented their point to make it sound like a gotcha moment says more about you then the person you replied to.
Hate in general is mostly irrational and sadly propaganda plays into the tribalistic nature of humans.
Didn't even need to put the breed in the title, we already know.
That's very naive. There's plenty of breeds of dogs that kill people.
Yeah, that’s true, but in the UK XL Bullies specifically have been doing all the maulings recently that have generated serious press coverage; also they themselves have just been added as the sixth (?) banned canine breed in the UK.
Very sorry for the life of this lady.
Shitbulls should be banned.
From the article
So I'm guessing she got them before they were banned and had an exception so she didn't have to have them destroyed.
Or didn't and simply flouted the law.
There's a stereotype of people who own those breed(s) for a reason.
The article did mention them as "registered", so I don't think this applies.
Yeah I saw that but found it strange that it seemed to distinguish between registered dogs and certified owners.
Maybe they just had runescape accounts.
The lady across the street from us used to own a small dog, I think it passed and she recently got an XL bully. She struggles to walk it, always looks angry with the dog, it's always barking and glaring at me and my family. I have been carrying my gun more recently because I'm waiting for the day that dog decides to try to make a meal out of my two-year-old.
Why are dognuts the way they are? Just get a fucking pom.
Gun nuts are worse
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The woman, who was in her 50s, was pronounced dead at the scene in Cornwall Close, Hornchurch, and the two registered dogs were safely seized having been contained inside a room, a spokesperson for the Metropolitan police said.
A spokesperson for the Met said: “Police were called to Cornwall Close around 1.12pm … to reports of a woman attacked by a dog.
“These were registered XL bully dogs and prior to officers’ arrival had been contained inside a room in the house.
From 1 February, it became a criminal offence to own the XL bully breed in England and Wales without an exemption certificate.
Footage of an XL bully dog attacking members of the public in the street in Birmingham, including a 11-year-old girl who sustained shoulder and arm injuries, prompted an outcry in September.
In November 2021, 10-year-old Jack Lis was mauled to death by a seven-stone XL bully dog called Beast.
The original article contains 344 words, the summary contains 153 words. Saved 56%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Good bot
Idk if it's the same everywhere but in my experience in America I have came across a huge range of canine breeds owned by a huge range of human breeds (quality of person) and 100% of the time the human was a caring person that loved their dog the breed is unnoticeable. On the other side, when the human is subpar the breed of the dog is more noticeable as an inverse correlation to how shitty the person is.
This is the dog equivalent of "guns don't kill people, people kill people."
But without the gun, no one would be killed by the gun.
... those ones not killed by the gun would be killed by the next lethal device in place of it, it is the will which drives the action, not the device
Guns are essentially magic spears. They pierce with great force at very large distances. The next down are toys in comparison.
Lmao but at least next lethal device isn’t something that has sole purpose of killing people.
Like how stupid you have to be… guns only and one numbero uno purpose is killing people. And they are fucking good at it, nothing else comes close.
A knife? Bitch please you have to get close, grab the victim and stab many times. It’s easier to run away from a blade than from a fucking bullet unless you are Neo.
What’s the purpose of legal gun ownership?? To defend against legal gun ownership. It’s a fucking ouroboros of stupidity.
Your opinion is not grounded in fact as represented by statistics from a wide range of countries.
The will cannot drive the action without the tool.
Then it will be something else.
Mind I'm not defending the free-guns-for-all policy so dear to a sadly large part of americans, I'm just saying that the tool is not the real issue, that one would be the finality of the action and the fecklessness, the morbidly carelessness and yet horrible thoroughness, attached to the though of ending or seriously harming another person. That one is a cultural problem, and very deep.
Sure guns were instrumental to spread and nourishing such culture, but if it wasn't the gun then the will to kill would have been manifested through the next available tool.
What next tool are you talking about?
Guns are specifically designed to kill people as quickly and efficiently as possible and at great distance. Take that tool away and you put some serious limits on the will to kill.
Guns are the easiest method to kill people with. A spree stabber isnt going to kill and main NEAR as many people before they are dealt with as a spree shooter will
This guy went pretty hard
Bud, 6 fatalities on the high end when you're trying to compare against gun shootings is pretty low
It was two xl bully Yorkies I'm guessing.
Judging by this thread, I'm honestly surprised someone hasn't said that Chihuahuas are more dangerous yet.
I mean, you're probably more likely to get bit by a Chihuahua than a pitbull.
But a pitbulls bite is a little bit worse.
Cripes, what kind of a dick do you have to be to your own dogs to get attacked by them?
Sometimes the breed temperament has more to do with it than anything else….
But also assholes all seem to like the same breed so….
Breed temperament is a thing, but all dogs can be good dogs. Most are good with only slight work. People get a breed they can’t handle and no one’s happy.
It pains me to say this as a great dog lover, and someone that has known some very loving pitbulls, Sadly not all dogs can be good dogs.
Like people, some are just born as “assholes”
But yes, breed temperament is a thing. Not an absolute thing, but still a thing.
My buddy legit owns a dire wolf (half wolf, half dog) and never had a problem in the last ten years. He owns a large chunk of property so the dog isn't restricted to one room in an apartment in the city, and he knows how to handle a large animal. I will say one thing, that thing commands respect, it's easily 7 foot from back paws to front paws.
Even pitbulls are safe in the right hands. Fuck it, tigers and lions and silverback gorillas are safe in the right environment.
However a proper education in caring for the animals aswell as proper enclosures and a knowledge of the animal and its needs….
Yes you CAN do it, but should Tom from down the street have his own pitbull army and alligator pool in his back yard?
Hard pass.
I’m sure some people can do it safely, but training, registration, safety, etc…. Ban them all as pets unless you get X license, like a gun.
You barely need to pass a background check to get a gun, lol. It's harder to get a driver's license. I'm not saying your wrong, just using a gun as reference is not the best comparison. If your doing private transfer of gun ownership, which is completely legal in most states, the background check is irrelevant.
I’m Canadian…. Slightly different standards.
I'm unfamiliar with Canadian law but I bet if your friend or neighbor wanted to sell a gun and you wanted to buy, the background check process would be a lot easier than if you went to a retailer like Walmart or whatever, and would probably still be considered legal.
When my step dad died, it was a difficult process trying to legally sell his hand guns. You can't buy guns from Walmart here either. That's so strange that you can where you're from.
Also guns are inanimate objects
They might be inanimate objects but they are much more destructive than dogs. Can a dog kill you? Yes. Can a gun kill you? Yes, but a gun is much more likely to get the job done than a dog.
Actually all a gun can do is sit there. There is zero chance of your gun killing you. You might accidentally kill yourself with it, but the gun is never going to kill you.
There is no evidence that she was being terrible towards the dogs
Some dogs can just snap and decide to not be nice one day, its a good reason you don't let dogs you've seen be calm interact with babies because it only takes a small amount of the dog not being nice to end up harming a baby
Older people have a better chance of surviving dog attacks but the chance isn't 100% and cases like this can happen
And if I recall correctly this breed is more prone to aggressiveness
I doubt it. Not walking them enough, keeping them cooped up, no outlets - especially if they weren’t fixed. Sad all around, but the dogs are not hatching evil plans, they’re just dogs.
Spay and neuter. Spay and neuter. And adopt.
Dogs that snapped are not being evil, it's just them acting on instinct. It's doesn't make them bad dogs, but it does make them dangerous.
Dogs can still have the potential to snap regardless if you've given them a good life
They could just snap from having a tantrum
Some dogs get older and I assume confused and just snap. My grandmother's dog, sweetest girl, golden retriever, service dog, previously good with other animals and cats. My Grandmom brought home a kitten and the dog mauled it. Do not trust dogs. Just like people they can do something totally out of character.
The kind of dick that keeps dogs like that in the first place.
She was probably made of meat
people should be required to have really serious animal rescue and psychology training to get one of these dogs (or else astronomical punishment). most people who get these dogs do so on a whim and because of their own unresolved ego issues.
Some are good boys that need a home. We adopted a dog of unknown breed, they had his mom (who looked like a black mouth cur), who came in from a kill shelter pregnant.
I still don't know what breed he is, really don't care to find out. But he has a lot of bully features. Big puffy chest. Blocky head. Strong jaw. Smart. Highly emotional.
And he's a fucking marshmallow. An 80lb slobbery marshmallow.
The best dog I ever had was a pit. Sweet as pie, just wanted to cuddle and love. We chose him because he was a big meaty guy with the most adorable face you'd ever seen, and because he needed a home ASAP. We'd take him on walks and people would cat call him from passing cars, or literally stop us and ask if they could dog-sit. He spent nearly a decade with us, just loving and farting and cuddling and snoring.
He really didn't need any help to become a great dog, except that I needed to train him that the cat was a friend and not something to chase and put our mouth on. That took all of a weekend, and that was after he'd been abandoned and abused for half a year before we got him. I know it's not true for every individual, but many times all a dog really needs a a good home with people that love it.
like with every "complex" living being there is of course a large spectrum. But to be on the safe side though anyone who wants to get a pit should be able to fairly certainly understand when a dog is stressed via physical cues and should be able to tell when a de-escalation is needed. And I am not talking about "I had dogs all my life I know what I am doing" kind of thing. More like if you are getting a pit from a shelter you should be required to get some serious mandatory training from a professional. This will (along with fines) will maybe help deter people who get pits for the sake of owning a ferocious dog.
Those who toy with the devil are sure to get burned, huh?
"XL bully dogs"? Have we stopped saying "pit bull" because of and I never got the memo?
Large dog breeds need to be trained very carefully. My friends have a 100 lbs husky, just a massive wolf looking dog. When he was a pup, he was food protective, so they made sure to train that behavior completely out of Steel(the dog).
In the present day, Steel is 8 years old, in the prime of his physical size and health, and the sweetest boi. With different owners, he'd have negative habits that lead his behaviour and made him dangerous.
Shocking
It always ends up the the dogs are kept in the yard or kenneled the entire time
i get that some dogs just have a naturally high prey and aggression drive but a lot of times it has to do with learned behavior at home too :(
This. She must have been giving them treats whenever they killed her.
Probably not, but just giving them attention (positive or negative) whenever they killed her, causing them to associate it with being engaged with
Some dogs can also just snap by throwing a tantrum even when their owners take good care of them
Some dogs will tear up a couch when they have a tantrum, maybe bully dogs tear up people when having a tantrum
No, it's the video games fault!
/s
Ban pitbulls everywhere
Ban bad owners
Make it so you need to have proven you can properly take care of one/need a license to own one. But also, neuter/spay all existing ones so no more can be born. They’ve suffered enough from human stupidity, and there are plenty of other dogs out there to choose from that need love.
Ban both
Here's a proposal: First, all dog breeding is regulated as strictly as bars with liquor licenses. Criminal charges and jail time if found doing it illegally.
Breeders and owners are required to have insurance coverage specific to dogs.
Owners are held liable for all damages their dog causes, no matter what. Your dog attacks somebody, mauls them and they seek settlement? It's on the owners. If the owner cannot be determined, the breeder is held liable.
Or, just make dogs above say, 30 pounds illegal. "But what if your dog is little and just really fat and becomes over 30 pounds?" Then you are fined and told to get your dog healthy within a certain timeframe, say 90 days, or surrender the dog and pay a fine for neglect, or get charged with animal abuse.
"Well then, nobody would want to get/breed dogs that are anywhere close to 30 pounds full grown because of the risk of violating the law." Yes...that's good. The only dogs people would have are small dogs that can't severely maul/kill people even if they do go off the rails.
"But what about hunters or sportspeople that use dogs to hunt or herd?" Plenty of herding/hunting dogs are within that 30 pound weight range, like Corgis or Beagles. Obviously there would be exceptions for government organizations that use large dogs for legitimate purposes like Saint Bernards for search and rescue.
"But muh gawd damn riaghts!!!" go cry about it.
He's a proposal: you don't need new Draconian laws every time something bad happens. That's how politicians pass every bad law. Patriot act ring any bells?
Go contemplate.
Should be distributed laws, not centralized, but you're a statist, so this convo won't go any further.
You're right about that, which is all that matters here.
In this thread, a fine demonstration of how hatred stems from fear which stems from ignorance and lack of experience, and a general lack of grasp on probs and stats. Par for the course.
Well how about enlightening people oh wise one instead of moaning
I'm only here to help support an opinion counter to the masses. I'm not a professor. If I were, I wouldn't be in the comment section.
It's always good to have someone with a stupid opinion to unite everyone else.
I hope you don't talk to the people in your actual personal life this way.
Only my closest friends
But got haven't presented a counter opinion to support. All you've done is complain about something you don't like.
I mean, it's never the labrador that is in the news killing people.
Almost as if a few hundred years of selective breeding for blood sports to an animal that is exceedingly fast at adapting might make it predisposed to... uhm... kicking off.