It would appear lemmy.world has blocked this community

Madbrad200@sh.itjust.works to Piracy: ꜱᴀɪʟ ᴛʜᴇ ʜɪɢʜ ꜱᴇᴀꜱ@lemmy.dbzer0.com – 921 points –
sh.itjust.works

!piracy@lemmy.ml has also been blocked from lemmy.world.

edit:

Lemmy.world has released an official response.

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To be honest, it's not a huge deal. The copyright cartel can easily send dmca requests to your isp just for having text guidelines. Not everyone has the bandwidth or energy to deal with stuff like that.

I just wish this wasn't done at the request of a transphobic racist who just did it to get back at is for getting banned for making transphobic and racist communities in this instance.

Keep it up db0, a lot of us across the fediverse appreciate what you've built!

Don't need lemmy world anyways. This is the most based instance on the entire fediverse. Their loss.

One of the most popular instance. This is why federation is necessary and people should create accounts in different servers instead of pulling everyone to one server calling it tge "official" or "main" server

At least they blocked a community and not the entire instance. This is how these things should be handled, imo

So beehaw was right whey they defederated from .world, there is shadiness there...

PS: this is one of the best communities in the fediverse, good job.

Beehaw's reasons for defederation were completely unrelated to what's happening now. They didn't want the general public to have access to their "safe" community.

there's more to "the general public" besides 2 instances. beehaw defederated from .world and sijw because the mod tooling to handle a huge influx of people isn't ready, and it still isn't ready. (and the rest of their defederations are an off the shelf mastodon blocklist import which all instances should do imo and a few explicitly unmoderated instances. oh and porn i think)

beehaw federates just fine with the instance i'm on, for example.

if they wanted to defederate completely, lemmy does support allowlist federation, and i'm pretty sure their admins know about it.

There's nothing shady here, just kneejerk and protectionist.

Beehaw defederated because they they decided they didn't want to actually moderate their communities. Easier to just screen everyone before letting them join, to weed out people they may potentially disagree with. Ostensibly to filter out hate but only a fool thinks it stops there.

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Fucking Lemmy.world is hot garbage. They're down every day and are constantly defederating with any instance that doesn't fit their narrow, sanitized world views. It's also one of the most recommended Lemmy's with more new users going there than anywhere else. I think it incredibly damaging in the long run to have 50% of active users on this platform to be centralized on one domain. Especially if this domain makes as many boneheaded decisions as lemmy.world

I think it incredibly damaging in the long run to have 50% of active users on this platform to be centralized on one domain.

I agree, but 50% is still better than 100%. I definitely appreciate that I'm reading about this while being totally unaffected personally rather than just disappearing entirely like what happens with a banned subreddit.

We badly need Lemmy clients that can merge instances even if they're defederated, as well as the other way around, filter out entire instances even if your instance won't defederate from them. Letting instance owners dictate what you can or cannot see is not the way.

There are clients that will do the former (eg. Liftoff) but I'm not aware of any that will do the latter. I don't understand why, it can't be that hard to filter users and communities by instance.

I wanna say connect could do it for a while now. It'll certainly come to many clients

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A lot of people register there initially to get their feet wet and move on to another instance later for these reasons. At least we have subscriptions/blocks transferring tools now.

Yep. I started there, found it down all the time and then moved on.

I did it the moment they decided not to defederate from Meta. I don't like admins who can't take decisive actions to protect their users (and apparently seem to bend their knees to any big corpo out there)

I'm fairly new, what are the tools?

I also used LASIM but I remember someone else mentioning another tool that could do multiple accts at once. check out this list for it and more tools.

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I think lemmy.world gather the kind of redditors that like sanitized world views, the power of decentralization makes us choose an instance without those hot garbaje takes as lemmy.world.

100% spot on. I got called all sorts of names for pointing this out, but maybe my own fault for pointing it out on one of their posts! 😅

I started on lemmy.world because it was the most popular server at the time and I didn't really understand how the fediverse worked. I spent the first month sort of just learning to stop trying to think like I was on reddit. The federation feels to me like pirate TV/ ham radio, people broadcasting their visions and worldviews while rebroadcasting other stations/nodes. Each instance, has it's own "feel". I see the entire instance I'm on as a greater solarpunk community, which is filled with smaller, related communities of people all sharing their own interests.

This is a memory of how the Internet was first envisioned by many people, before the corporate takeover. I am interested in FOSS, I am interested in "piracy", I am interested in any exchange of knowledge that helps us work together, spread skills, and empower communities, both virtual and on the ground.

But all that aside, lemmy.world is just too unreliable for it to be my entrypoint into the fediverse. Which is why I looked around and found a place that feels more in line with my own sense of hopefulness for the future.

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This feels like an obvious bullshit cop-out reason to defederate against a specific community that they don't like for whatever silly reason they can't reveal to the public.

Never have I seen an actual link to content survive very long on lemmy.ml or dbzer0.com. Just like the good old /r/Piracy we discuss piracy, but we do not directly facilitate it.

Someone please slap the back of their heads repeatedly and aggressively with these facts. This excuse is disingenuous as hell.

If you are a user of lemmy.world; RUN. NOW! Find a new instance. Switch away from them before they reach terminal enshitification velocity.

enshitification

You're already misusing our cool new word. Cut it out.

Too many people don't know what it actually means.

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I guess, someone with a copyright background came knocking at their door. It's one thing to defend against a lawsuit if you are a big for-profit company with a well-funded law department and a nice financial buffer. But it's an entirely different thing if you are hosting a non-profit platform with your own money because you are a nice guy.

Tbh, I am negatively surprised how many people don't understand that the person hosting a lemmy instance is someone who does it as a hobby and not a big corporation.

The good thing about Lemmy: if you don't like an instance or it's admin, you can just host one yourself. You just need a Pi or an old laptop and a few hours of time. Did you try that?

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And just like that I learned about a Steam Deck piracy community.

Something something Streisand Effect.

TBF it doesn't seem like they were against piracy per se, they just wanted to avoid potential liability. That said, I've still moved on to another instance.

https://lemm.ee/post/4235833

A transphobic troll got spanked and then retaliated with that post and the .world admins were stupid enough to blindly follow the directions of an alt-right turd.

Just saying.

Not just transphobic but racist as well and going by the posted pebbleyeet memes probably also fascist. Sad that the lemmy.world admins took the bait especially after dealing with constant ddos themselves for kicking off their own trolls

It's comedy how wishy washy they are on not federating with Meta despite bunch of their users saying they hate Facebook and Zuck but are convinced to defederate from us by a single post from such a suspicious account.

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I just saw the same user on the star trek instance, accusing them of being into 'nerd shit'

It's doubtful they posted to .world with genuine concerns. They just seem like an agent of chaos.

‘nerd shit’

On Star Trek? Imagine that! (I've been nerding over there, off and on, all day) 🤣

Incidentally, when I looked up that user earlier in the day, they account was 8 hours old.

Source for this person being transphobic? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't know where this is coming from..

About 5 shitty memes that are now deleted, that's what this post is in response to in the first place.

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And the fact that I can see this means sh.itjust.works hasn't, yey

neither has lemdro.id!

Nor lemm.ee. And hopefully that won't change.

Hopefully it doesn't change for reddthat.com as well.

Coincidentally I just made a lemm.ee account today

I think this is better tbh, I personally don't like it when piracy forums/sites/whatever piracy related thing goes too mainstream. Maybe it's gatekeeping, I don't know, I just don't want another Z-Library incident.

Either way, they probably aren't even against piracy, they're probably just lazy and don't want to deal with any of the issues they could potentially face down the line.

Edit - grammar

I kind of agree, with the caveat that I think it'd be super cool if the existing dbzer0 members also checked out other communities on different instances and made Lemmy more popular. I feel like that would be a win-win.

The more mainstream and well-known dbzer0 becomes, the more likely it is to have problems because of that.

For this community in particular, I think having a "federated community" would be especially helpful. Piracy communities will inevitably be taken down, but distributing them across many federated communities turns it into a game of whack-a-mole.

dbzer0 is no exception to this. There will be a time that the admin will start receiving DMCAs and will need to choose between complying and throwing themselves into legal jeopardy.

Unfortunately, the lemmy project maintainers and lead devs seem largely uninterested in such a feature and I lack the skill necessary to implement it, so it's down to an invested and skilled community member, if it ever happens.

posts and comments are hosted on the instances their authors come from. if the instance hosting a community gets yanked away without sending proper deletion requests to the network, all those posts end up hidden but accessible with their "canonical" link (which you can find from the rainbow star looking button on each post)

for example, the canonical link to OP's post is https://sh.itjust.works/post/2882678, and if db0 goes down without asking shitjustworks to remove this post (i.e. if it gets seized) that post will stay there until the sijw admins or OP themselves takes it down

(and if an instance does get seized other piracy-friendly instances can immediately defederate from that instance to "reject" any future removal requests wink wink nudge nudge)

We already do :) It's all federated so dbzer0 members can view/subscribe/participate in other Lemmy communities.

i honestly think the z-library incident was a one-off because it was spread by colleen hoover fans on tiktok so i'm hoping that it won't happen again... but maybe that's just wishful thinking :/

Hi Lemm.ee. Bye lemmy.world.

The guy who started this whole thing by asking lemmy.world admins to defederate with lemmy.dbzer0.com is a lemm.ee account and he has asked lemm.ee to take similar action

Doesn't matter who started it, all that matters is how the admins handle it. If all it takes is a new user asking for a community or instance to be blocked/de-federated and it just happens no questions asked, the admin in charge are to blame, not the person for asking.

That was not my point. My point was that the guy who planted the idea in the heads of the lemmy.world admins has planted the idea in the heads of the lemm.ee admins. They may or may not respond similarly as the lemmy.world admins

Again - doesn't matter. The admins are the ones making the decisions. The admins are the ones that made this dumb one.

Good on them if they don't fall to the bait

If I can just put things in the heads of the admins by making a post, then there's something wrong with those admins.

Why don't I just make a post suggesting they defederate from everyone and become a whitelist only server. Obviously they won't do that because it would be the end of the instance so they do actually think about things. They just used this random person posting as an excuse. Hell, for all we know it's one of the admins using an alt, and they just want an "excuse".

I'm pretty certain the lemm.ee dev won't block it. Time will tell.

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I'll tell ya a couple of three things, my estimation of Lemmy.world as a general-purpose instance just fucking plummeted.

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Lemmy.world is dogshit. It feels like a nanny instance or like a reddit 2.0. Idk why people keep joining that bullshit instead of spreading out.

I'm so happy that I joined a small instance that hasn't defederated or been defederated from anyone

Idk why people keep joining that bullshit instead of spreading out.

Probably because they don't understand how federation works. People are used to signing up for centralised services, so when they come to Lemmy because of a reddit post where someone said "I just signed up at lemmy.world, it's great" and then they install an app and lemmy.world is the first instance listed, they just blindly assume that is the official/main instance that they should start with.

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wow it's almost like having a huge chunk of lemmy's users in one instance is a bad thing. who would've thought.

seriously though more people should migrate to smaller instances.

It makes me wonder if and when we'll see clients that also act as single-user instances.

I've been saying that for a while, start a service where you can pay x€ per month for self-hosting your 1 to 5 users instance, that makes it easy to get it started via a few choices, and I'm sure it would be very popular.

If there are any code-masters out there that want to partner with someone that can lead the vision/sales/UX aspect of it, hit me up.

there are people that do this kinda thing for mastodon (see masto.host as an example), so it's only a matter of time before lemmy hosters of this nature will pop up.

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Hello all. First post here. Moved over from lemmy.world because of this.

I joined as well. New to Lemmy. Never even heard of dbzer0 until that post. There have been a few complaints of .world degenerating other communities as well. Streisand effect.

It's not really a Streisand effect, because .world doesn't give a shit if you go to those places or not - they just don't want the liability of you doing it from their instance.

Made the switch from lemmy.world the other day due to this. Not necessarily because of who they defederated/blocked, but because this happens with little/no consultation or communication with the user base. The frequency of it became frustrating; who knows what other community/instance will be blocked on a whim next?

I appreciate that the LW admins do this as a hobby in their free time, but things like this could be approached in a better way, or at the very least with better communication. I found out about this via a post in /c/mildlyinfuriating, which in itself was mildly infuriating lol.

Migrated to this instance, and I can choose via Connect which instances or communities I want to see. Should have done this sooner.

Beehaw pulled the same crap. Weeks ago. Glad they rejected my sign up.

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I don't hold it against them. They have their hands full at the moment with DDOS attacks. The admins are barely able to keep the place running. The beauty of federation is that we can pick and choose where to sail from.

And yet they insist on keeping registrations open and tarnishing the lemmy name with their shit uptime and terrible, terrible decisions like this. Fuck them.

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Its fair enough. They gotta protect their ass.

I just logged into a user made on this instance. Problem solved. And lemmy.world has had a ton of downtime anyway. Always trouble loading comments and often trouble loading posts

wow, and they only announce it in their discord. fuck lemmy.world

Yeah, that part was pretty fucked up. The LW Admin made a statement about it saying it was a mistake by a newer member of their team and that from now on all announcements would be posted to the announcements community on .world.

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That’s funny because lemmy.world has been blocking every community for hours on end multiple times a week on a seemingly regular basis. Their shits broke.

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I find funny that we all are raging about this dumb move, and lemmy.world ppl can't because of the blocking lol.

We were notified through a c/Mildly Infuriating post. True pirates are used to having to make some effort to get their content!

If I was on that instance and subscribed to this community, I wouldn't see these posts any more? If I wasn't paying attention would I even know it was gone?

That's correct. No you wouldn't.

This seems like a significant flaw. Anyone know if that's purely a UI issue or if the protocol itself makes it ambiguous which communities are blocked?

This sub disappeared from my subscriptions on my .world account, but it was a c/Mildly Infuriating post that tipped me off.

I think you would stop seeing new posts.

Lemmy.world sucks, it's constantly down and they block communities people want to federate with, and leave communities federated people want blocked.

Guess my alt account has now become my main account. Thus, the Lemmy dance continues.

Seems a bit short sighted. There are some games, movies and TV shows that simply don’t exist to buy legally or even second hand.

Torrenting is the only way in some instances to preserve content.

Also as long as no illegal content is shared, but is only referred to, there isn't really anything illegal about it right?

Sure, just like gas stations sell "tobacco" papers for smoking cigarettes, not weed.

Yep, I don't torrent that often, and when I do it's usually because something is out of print and all the publicly available scans I can find online are really shitty. The torrents more often than not have pretty decent quality.

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Wow, I mean all instances are free to what they wanna, but banning a sub seems extreme

They must be paranoid about thinking that even the slightest link to any kind of pro-piracy conversation or community will get them sued into the ground.

I think the admins dug themselves into a hole tbh - last week they preemptively defederated from an instance because the admin doesn’t agree with their political ideologies and said that people from that instance might break the Lemmy.world rules so they need to be banned up front. Now this unhinged person posted a thread pointing out that piracy is against the Lemmy.world rules too, so they kinda had no choice unless they wanted to look like hypocrites.

Lemmy world is turning into Reddit v2 or Twitter v2. I'm happy about my decision to leave that dumpster fire. Let's hope this nonsense helps others to migrate as well.

Lemmy world is turning into Reddit v2

Not really, even Reddit still has piracy related subreddits (at least for now).

It takes a lot of effort to be worse than Reddit.

Lemmy is advancing so much and so fast even Spez has competition rising up to the challenge.

I don't have any issues about lemmy.world existing though, it keeps some users I wouldn't like very much farther away from me. I consider it as a "buffer zone" of sorts.

.world has already become a shithole echo chamber. Good thing lemmy's technology can not really let it take over the platform as a whole like it did with reddit.

I've been liking .zip so far.

I'd be scared to have an account in something with .zip domain. Could be that some big players start to block that domain (Google, isps).

Though I guess you just make a new account if shit hits the fan.

funny thing is afaik google is the one who's registering .zip TLDs

or at least they were until they sold google domains to squarespace

I wanted to try out zip but unfortunately I think zip domains are blocked on my network since it fails to connect normally but does work through Tor or a VPN. I also tried connecting to other zip domains (not just the lemmy instance) and I got similar results. Would work on Tor or VPN but not on my main network.

At least I now have an account here though, which is probably good enough for now.

Try using an alternative dns. Some isps DNS servers don't know how to direct a .zip tld

One should always use a self hosted DNS, in my opinion.. you can add the filter you need, and your isp does know a bit less about you 😉

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This sub just got a new member. Thank miss Streisand :)

Same here =) just because fuck Lemmy.world

When Kbin releases his API I'm gonna be there too!

Was there some context or discussion about that over there? If I recall correctly, lemmy.world is hosted in Germany, right? The lawyers there are quite extreme when it comes to cracking down on piracy; is a whole business model.... So maybe .world is just overly cautious

I'm on a german instance (feddit.de) and it's federated with db0.

I think it's just lemmy.world bullshit.

Has anyone read their post about their downtime?

"We shouldn't close registration or limit the amount of communities because we're not even the biggest instance in the fediverse"

Like, what?! The argument was always that they are the biggest in Lemmy! It felt like they were trying to gaslight the users.

Same as the other arguments, like new users being weirded out if they can't register to lemmy.world or apps using them as default. So them being down all the time doesn't matter? Or that lemmy.ml was the biggest instance and closed down registration and new users registered to other instances without a problem?

I'm really weirded out how hard they try to be the "main" thing on Lemmy.

Almost like an "intentional and kinda aggressive lib takeover". I wouldn't put it past the admins to try monetizing their users at some point.

Fucking Germany. Like I get having the laws, but they are being abused for absolute nonsense.

Nothing of value is lost. 😂

The best part is lemmy.world notified its users of this change on...discord. lol

Great social media site, where you notify end users of major changes on another platform entirely.

Yeaaaah, that's sketchy. I can understand them blocking the communities out of fear of legal risk. They didn't sign up for that kinda risk and we all know that piracy oriented sites get targeted by legal action (isn't there currently an ongoing attempt to get Reddit to turn over user info about people who accessed piracy communities there?). But why the heck would they hide that they blocked the communities?

It's the same as with Hexbear. I can understand why they defederated from that instance, since I've seen how they comment. They're extremely aggressive. Even when they're right, they're assholes about it. And they're often straight up supporting Russia, which is batshit crazy (they have no nuance, acting as if there can't both be Nazis in Ukraine and Russia can also be an evil aggressor). But Lemmy.World was happy to silently defederate until they got called out. Even despite the fact that for Exploding Heads, they at least had a big post about it (even though Exploding Heads is far worse).

This is ultimately why I decided to roll my own instance. I'm keeping my backup here though in case I mess something up, but full control is nice to have.

Self-Host Gang. Instances with whitelist mode suck tho.

Agreed. I haven't come across any instances I care to participate in that have that enabled though.

The real question in my mind is: how do we ensure the instance this community is on doesn't get shut down? Seems to me like c/piracy itself might be a legal target, and as far as I can tell, none of the instances are big enough to have legal teams to sheild it from legal threats

Can we just emulate the rules that the torrenting subreddits use? They still exist after years.

I thought those rules were pretty much "talk about torrents but not about content"

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The legal environment around Lemmy is tenuous at best. Content and / or actions that are legal in one nation are illegal in others but Lemmy caches that content on every federated instance with active users.

To illustrate the complexity involved consider a Mexican user on a Lemmy instance located in Germany that visits exploding heads to view Nazi content. Which nations laws are controlling?

What about when an Australian user on a Finnish Lemmy instance who accesses something like fauxbait from lemmynsfw.com? Those images are arguably illegal in Australia but who has liability here? The Australian user? The Finnish Lemmy instance? Lemmynsfw.com?

In both of those scenarios the User is one country with its own set of laws, the Users Host Instance and its content cache are in a 2nd country with a different set of laws, and the instance hosting the content is in 3rd country with yet another set of laws!

It's the same problem with digital piracy, who is legally liable when the law, and remember we don't even know whose laws apply, is breached? The User? Their Host Instance? The Content Host? All of them?

Legal lightening is absolutely going to strike a Lemmy instance soon and no sane instance operator wants to be the lightening rod.

Just replace "Lemmy instance" with "blog", and the answer is obvious.

"consider a Mexican user visiting a blog located in Germany to view Nazi content."

The user is subject to Mexican laws. The blog owner would be subject to German laws. The instance owner is likewise subject to German laws.

Adding additional parties doesn't change anything. For example, if a Mexican user on a Swiss VPN views content originating from a blog in Germany, then the user, the VPN, and the blog are all subject to laws of their own jurisdiction.

Those laws can regulate what content you can access, what content you can host, or both.

If you are American then your Lemmy instance is most likely be protected by section 230, and you probably don't have to worry too much about non-pirated content. If you live in another country or host pirated content in the US, then YMMV.

Exactly, users and hosts are subject to laws around using and hosting in their own jurisdiction. Instances caching posts are hosts.

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Honestly, I'm ok with it. Piracy shouldn't be something that anyone can see. More something people find after looking for it. Yes there is the con to having less users but the more users we have the more risk we take on.

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Thank God I moved to programming.dev recently. I may have to make a burner on dbzero just in case.

lemmy.world is trash, it's brought in and hosts the worst parts of reddit I was hoping to avoid by moving to lemmy. Wish I could just block that whole instance.

It made a quick an easy landing point for my transition from Reddit. As I learned more about how the fediverse worked and how instances were set up I realized relatively quickly I wanted to find a new "home base".

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it’s brought in and hosts the worst parts of reddit

Any instance that becomes too large will have this issue. It's not world's fault.

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If Lemmy.world decides to roll advertisements we'll know why at least.

I just made an account to discover that we’re blocked. Wtf lol, this is my first post.

aaand a whole new me!

I'm a pirate at heart, yarr ;)

Yet another reason I'm glad I run my own instance and can make those decisions for myself.

There's also !piracy@lemmy.ml ?

I think they blocked that one too unfortunately. I subscribed to it from here though. I guess multiple accounts is just going to become a necessary part of being in the Fediverse, even if lemmy devs add account Migration to the software.

Or rolling your own server 😎

I still think that account migration would be very important in that circumstance because unless you ran your own server from the start you would still need to migrate the account and control of its content over to the account on your server.

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Glad I switched instance a few days ago anyway! :)

So partial defederstion is possible!

Which is a good thing when used only when absolutely necessary. However I wish that blocked communities would be easily visible under the Instances page.

I was on Lemmy World too, but lately they’ve started to restrict more and more. Restricting access to piracy was my limit

Moved to lemmy.blahaj.zone because of this. And also I kinda got fed up with the outages even though it's not their fault. Glad to see the federation thing is working as intended.

welcome to blahaj. our image uploads and the lemmy frontend constantly breaks but everyone's really chill and really gay.

Wasn't it the blahaj admin who defederated from some popular instance because it had an "adorable porn" community, claiming that contained child abuse content. Nevermind that a subreddit with the same name has existed for like a decade. And when proven wrong they doubled down and never admitted falsely accusing people of serious crimes.

Any word on where lemmy.one stands on this? For the moment, I'm still getting this, but I'll create another account elsewhere if necessary.

The issue with lemmy.one is that it appears the admin has lost interest in doing anything at all with it. The person who started it hasn't been online for months, and when the server has issues no one resolves them or even notices.

I'm surprised it ever even came back up after it got broken for so long.

My main account is on the piracy instance. So it's fine. I'm fine.

I was wondering what happened. Noticed this community disappear from my lemmy world subscriptions. Am posting this from my kbin.

I mean, the great thing about federation is that you can just have different accounts for different servers

Well migrated today and uh yeah sucks ass that this happened.

Was to lazy to change instances even though .world was always down. Actively censoring made me finally pull the plug. Thanks for helping me out I guess

I wanna leave lemmy.ml but idk what instance to join

I went with lemm.ee, seems like a good one.

The asshat that complained on Lemmy.world about this community also apparently messaged the Lemmy.ee admins trying to get it defederated. Just a heads up.

There are a few good ones, I am on feddit.rocks now but it's still in a rather WIP stage (E.g. the defederation policy isn't written yet) so idk if I would recommend that to others, still a nice place without much drama or users and hosted by Kavin (the creator of Piped and long time hoster of multiple third party frontends like Nitter and Bibliogram)

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The reason why I have a lemmy account is to be a part of the piracy community. My account is also registered on this instance. So as long as I am able to access this community I am good. Plus making a second account on lemmy.world for the communities on therewill take literally seconds . Absolutely no need to panic.

Ok this might look like noob posting but I'm fresh af on Lemmy & trying to figure out if my account transfers here so test comment.

No wonder they are getting everyone mad at them

potential legal issues haunting more site admins 😔