Employers controlling their workers “time off” is old fashioned dystopia.
It's entirely voluntarily (hence bonus), and has huge benefits for your self. I fail to see what the problem is.
My company does the same thing, and so do many others.
Your company is abusing it's employees. Imagine if it was something other than exercise how abusive it would be.
With how a lot of jobs have a lot of their pay based on nearly mandatory bonuses, this is basing pay on controlling you outside of work.
Your company is abusing it’s employees. Imagine if it was something other than exercise how abusive it would be.
Except it's not, because it's exclusively about health. It's a discount health insurance companies offer to companies, and the company uses that money to encourage employees to be healthier.
Your insurance benefit offered after health milestones isn't 30-130% of your salary though
Running 30km (18.6 miles) in a month earns a bonus equivalent to 30% of their monthly salary. Moving up to 40km (24.8 miles) pushes that to 40%. Hitting 50km (31 miles) earns 100%, and the top tier of 100km (62 miles) is 130%
100km for 130%, when 50km will already get you 100%? Not worth it in the least.
Depending on how they track it, exploiting that shouldn't be too hard.
I didnt see what was the appeal for companies until I realized they were US based companies and had to provide health insurance for their employees
Next up they will be forcing you to a plant based diet or maybe straight to veganism. Slippery slope towards forced sterilization or some other
Radical procedure that saves them money but is not necessary.
As reported by Guangzhou Daily, Lin Zhiyong, the chairman of a company that makes paper for various devices, told his workers that their year-end bonuses had been canceled. Instead, the money will be distributed across each coming month, and how much employees receive will depend on how far they run.
He literally canceled their bonuses and said “lol go run for it dipshit”
Imagine getting your bonus cancelled and told to go do more work to get it back.
Fuck this guy and fuck Chinese labour standards.
You don't have to run. My lazy ass clears 6k steps each day just living life. That's counts as walking, which is worth 1/3rd steps but still makes it a mile a day. I would be getting 100% bonus with literally no life change. Sign me up! Meanwhile, I never bonused working retail because people stealing carts crushed my EBITA every quarter.
Are you a fucking idiot?
Go work in a fucking Chinese paper factory all day for not enough money to live, and then go have part of your salary taken away and be told to do more work.
Maybe after having a second of fucking realisation you won’t come back and spout such dumbarse nonsense.
You obviously are a fucking idiot because a bonus isn't your salary shithead. Also this is the most trivial nonsense I've ever heard of to bonus 100%. I live in America where I've never once gotten 100% of my goddammit bonus fuckface. Being told that you get all of it for wearing a pedometer is literal childs play to me. Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit baby agression and jerk off or something instead.
I fucking wish I worked in a Chinese paper factory and got bonuses! Like seriously, get a goddammit clue. If that sounds like hard work to you, then you've literally never seen one, and you must have baby soft keyboard hands.
You’re an absolute moron.
I too wish you get to work in a Chinese factory.
I'm surprised you can even spell moron. I bet the reason you think it's so bad is because you're a piece of shit racist. Get over yourself.
Looks much nicer than my workplace. I also work with Chinese manufacturers and know how many holidays they get off too, so unlike you, I'm not actually ignorant to your average Chinese persons working environment and make believe its some hellscape. Our middle class is collapsing while theirs has grown substantially. Their government does some crazy shit but we're no exception.
Haha oh geez imagine thinking it’s racist to have a negative view of another countries labour conditions.
I’m probably racist to Americans because I think yours are shit too right?
You really do deserve to work in that fact, go apply for it!
At least you finally admit it.
Totally racist against Americans, good job genius.
Go beg for some tips or whatever other shit you find acceptable.
It's the only explanation for why you came in acting like a piece of rank shit in a polite conversation, then believed telling someone to work in a Chinese paper mill would be an insult. Now that I know it's because you are a hateful bigot, I just feel sad for you.
Not all of these programs explicitly require running with no alternatives for people who can't run.
Most that I've seen are usually just based on "exercise minutes" depending on how your device tracks those. The Apple watch is really lenient and I get 50% of my daily goal just walking to work.
Start by walking?
What about people on wheelchairs, numbnuts?
I'm sure they offer alternatives. Not everything is so black and white.
Our companies in particular is just 30 exercise minutes so you can do whatever you want to get your heart rate up.
Sex. I want my company to pay me to sex. I feel like I could totally get behind that. Sexually.
A 2-mile run per day is about 20-30 minutes of cardio. You can count sex, but how are you going to get the other 19-29 minutes?
Literally one of my co workers does that.
I hope 'going to therapy to treat your depression because you can't force yourself to go out and exercise' is offered as an alternative too.
If the company is operating in good faith, they will be making "reasonable accommodations" for disabled workers.
The top tier of this program requires about 30 minutes of running per day. I'm sure we can find a similarly intensive workout to meet the needs and capabilities of disabled workers, numbnuts.
If the company is operating in good faith,
If they're going on with this idea, they're definitely not operating in good faith.
Nothing in the article even suggests they are operating in bad faith.
The company is basically asking them to voluntarily extend their work day by 15 to 30 minutes, but instead of offering time-and-a-half they would be entitled to as "overtime", they will double, or more than double their wages.
That roughly 30 minute period of activity is worth about 16 times their hourly pay.
The year end bonus was canceled in order to enforce this "healthy" change during the coming months. The workers lost something they were supposed to get because some asshole wanted them to be "healthier". There's a considerable chance that the company will distribute less money to the workers that way.
It's not about keeping workers healthy, it's about saving money, that's bad faith.
Do you think they would be included in this bonus program?
If they want to be a part of employees health and well-being they can pay health insurance or start the day with a hit sessions or yoga or tai chi.
They absolutely shouldn't be encouraging, through their bonus scheme, people to do work associated activities in their spare time.
I understand your view I just don't like that this is how they've chosen to encourage such a thing.
My work has a marathon every year, during work hours on a voluntary basis and logs training miles for competition. Never affects earnings or personal time.
What if you took that money and applied towards your health costs?
What money?
Because it is a transparent attempt to pay less bonuses and I am betting exploits some condition in the insurance and/or tax code to get a better deal for the corporation.
How about companies just pay the end of the year bonus and not make a big deal about it?
Read the article, it's no exploit, it's China.
Lawful =/= non-exploitative
I'm not attempting to excuse the behavior by any means (no matter how much it sounds otherwise).
Just explaining that this is behavior we can and should expect from an authoritarian state with no regard for human rights. Hopefully that clarifies things a little bit.
Yes, and reading the parent I see they were speaking of exploiting laws, not people specifically. Thanks for clarifying, hope you have a nice day
Thank you! I wish you the same
Or it's because insurance companies offer discounts for companies that offer these programs. The employer uses some (or all) of that money to encourage employees to be healthier which A. makes them healthier. B. saves the insurance company/insurance money. C. helps boost productivity. and D. makes everyone overall happier.
Bonuses should not be expected, or they're not bonuses. I get that. But making them available only to those able to do some physical test is discrimination.
But you're a fuckwit..
Meanwhile, assholes at the top get bonuses if the company is profitable. Seeing a bit of a discrepancy here
Jeff Bezos: It's inside the Amazon warehouse, while working.
You are not allowed to stop moving or eliminate your waste. It's because we care about you
My work is somehow promoting sport over lunch break (well there is always an Ass hole setting a meeting at 13) but it's lunch break, not work time. However, during that time we build connections with other employees, talk about work, so basically free cross department team building for the company
I don't think hungry employees will tolerate that for long. Or maybe it's a way for higher ups to get rid of "possible nuisances"
My health is nearly none of my employer's business. I will not be telling them when or how I exercise.
This is a gross invasion of privacy.
There isn't much difference between a "bonus" and a penalty, given enough notice.
I kind of like the Japanese culture of the workplace being in charge of the health of their workers. This is why they all exercise for the first 30 min of their shift. If they are overweight, they find a solution.
Is it invasive? Kind of, yeah. Pretty much. Idk. Maybe the bonus shouldn't ride on the fitness, but I think the workplaces should be more involved in the health of their employees.
Japan has a fraction of the obesity as the USA.(BMI >/=30, J%:3.8M/3.2F to USA%:43.0M/41.9F)
Also they have 1/3rd the % of population with disabilities at 4.3% vs the USA with 13%.
I'm not saying the brief forced workout routine by their employers has results, by no means, what I am getting at is that shit wouldn't fly in America and any attempt would end in failure due to our cultural relationship with food.
To be fair it is kind of their business just in a very indirect and invasive way.
Your health affects your performance, your health affects their health insurance, disability, and life insurance premiums.
This means that as far as the faceless entity of a business goes your health is its concern. Now whether we agree to just accept that or not as a whole other story.
On a personal level I wouldn't mind my employer being more involved in my health, not invasively or privacy violating like the above. Providing access to nutritionists or trainers, supplementing a gym membership under the agreement that I actually use it. Making exercise equipment and group workout sessions available. Things like that.
"firm in China". Pretty sure China doesn't deal with "health insurance, disability, and life insurance premiums."
Unless the company is going to allow me to run in company time or pay me my base pay plus overtime on top of the bonus that's a hard fuck no from me.
Company wants my time, they better damn well pay for it.
ETA. Thinking about it more, nah this whole running for your bonus is bullshit and I wouldn't do it even if they paid me overtime since running/exercising unless your job is directly related to it, running has nothing to do with work performance which the bonus is based on.
But they are paying you for it. Not for your time specifically but for your distance. Idk if you read the article but highest tier is 130% of your base salary.
No they are not. A bonus is for your performance at work and when I run it's on my own damn time.
IDGAF how much of a bonus it is, 30% is all fine and dandy but again, if they aren't letting employees run on company time or paying employees for the time while they run during their off hours, then it's still a fuck no from me and it's complete bullshit to base a performance based bonus on you doing shit on your off time.
But hey, if you like having your company keeping tabs on how much you run vs how well you actually do at work for your bonus, I guess good for you, just not my cup of tea.
What if you get this bonus on top of your normal bonus? Would you walk then?
Again, no because a bonus is based on your performance at work, how you coworkers performed, how you all performed together at work and unless your work was directly related to you and your team running and even then you'd be running on company time.
A person running has fuck all to do with performance at work and thinking about it more especially more with the various people I have and do work with, I find myself thinking how this really is an assinine idea that is not only a overstep into community script territory but also could be a very shitty thing for employee morale.
A bonus can be anything. Doesn't necessarily have to be tied to your performance. It's called a discretionary bonus
My question assumes you get your normal performance-based bonus... But you get an additional bonus based on your walking
Maybe it's just me, but I find it mind-boggling that you wouldn't do it. You're getting paid to be healthy, essentially...
This screams I'm overweight.
I'm not overweight but fucking hate running.
I'll never understand why anyone enjoys running. I absolutely hate it and feel terrible after running. I ran every day for 22 years (former military) and hated every single day.
I prefer rowing, that is actually fun.
Rowing is great! I hate exercise but once I got my rowing machine, I finally enjoyed it!
Rowing is awesome!
I personally love running because it's a time where I can just let my mind wander, reflect, or just have it go blank.
Plus it also helps when your half marathon path ended at the brewery where you have a tab.
There are other physical activities that people enjoy that do the same exact thing. Another person mentioned rowing, but riding a bicycle is also similar. The point is, not everyone likes running, even if they do like letting their mind wander.
Okay...and no where did I advocate that running is the only thing anyone can do.
Dude asked for an opinion of why a person would love running and so I gave one. No need to get all defensive, take it down a notch there.
Well, fair enough. But the other person did not ask for an opinion, quite the opposite even. They said they will never understand it. So at least to me it felt a bit like you were trying to convince the other person that running is better.
This screams I hate exercise and I'm overweight.
This screams I'm a pedantic little cuntnugget.
I'm sorry, the last two comments were immature and not representative of who I am. Don't know what came over me, but it's not the way to behave or act online or in person.
You don't have to accept this apology but know I strive to be better than what this comment chain shows.
Again sorry.
What the hell, a person reflecting their actions (somewhat) immediately without someone prompting them to do so. Good on you, dude.
Why are you so angry in every comment?
This screams I'm a complete moron that can't understand or have a intellectual discussion over a topic so I'll just do a dumbass ad hominem attack.
I run anyway, may as well get paid for it
I mean me too, but not for money
Now you'd technically be a professional runner.
DoD employees get paid to workout during the workday at least. It's nice.
In theory.
In practice, it has to be approved by your supervisor and is only for times when it won't interfere with progress on actual work.
So all they've gotta do is give you a lot of work to do...or just say no...and you don't get that anymore.
It's never been an issue for us. People go before they come in or at the end of the day. We're at a Air Force base so if be different at other installations.
Ok, so as a former Navy guy I have to ask, does golf count as "exercise" in the Air Force?
No because it's assumed you'll use the golfcart. Spinning in chairs counts if you do it long enough to work up a sweat.
I mean, that kind of makes sense. "Maintain battle readyness" and all that. I would expect everyone in the military, law enforcement, or emergency response should be paid also.
Firefighter isn't going to carry someone down a flight of stairs if they have that "Body By Dunkin'"
Thus why I did it, just didn't like running.
Yeah I wouldn't even want to play video games if my bonus was contingent on it. Way to suck the joy out of something positive, corpos
I would add: And bonuses are a BS excuse to overwork employees and making them work overtime for free. Having to go above and beyond simply to earn the end of year bonus caused me huge amounts of stress, anxiety, depression, and even affected my physical health.
You know how I solved that problem? By quitting and moving to a better company.
I mean being active anyway is a good thing for you
And if the bonus is 30% of your monthly salary each month to do a bare minimum of movement that sounds like easy money
Other than the disability, privacy and disability concerns already raised- Running is SO boring. What if you prefer other cardio activity or a mix of strength training and cardio? Why does it have to be running?
I also can’t see how this doesn’t open them up to lawsuits for any injuries incurred from a sprained ankle to a blown out knee or a heart attack. I’m a manager in a large company, and I got a bit nervous at some of the offsite activities, and those were mild things like dunk tanks. Plus I bet the entertainment company or venue carries that insurance. This is literally making the run part of the job, and it’s a relatively dangerous activity.
It's in China... You might end up in a work camp for getting injured and speaking up about it.
You and most people in this thread are right but I'm sure that can't be a concern in their legal framework, otherwise they wouldn't have come up with the idea.
I know a number of companies that have introduced exercise programs. In every case it’s clearly done on the employee’s own time, is made accommodating, and the reward for completing your 4000 steps per day or whatever is a tee shirt or something. It’s not that these things can’t be done.
Plus companies do stupid things that get them sued all the time. Look at Elon.
The article says climbing and walking are both accepted.
It's still a bit of a mockery to ask employees on wheelchairs to get up and walk if they want their bonuses.
What about fu-- uhh jumping?
Fu-- uhh jumping Jack is fine as well.
Running has always been where I was able to just let my mind wonder. It's like meditating while exercising.
The amount of bonus a worker gets is based on the number of miles they complete each month.
I understand what they're trying to do, but this is just not equitable. You'd have to figure out how to handle this for people who cannot run (such as wheelchair users). This greatly favours those with more free time and less obligations (such as people with no kids). It favours those already in shape and those who have fewer health issues.
This will favour those who already have it better off, which is the opposite of equity.
Good idea in theory, but I don't like the model where it's applied based on output.
What is the good part in theory? I can't see how what/how much exercise, if a person chooses/is able to do it at all, is relevant to their job? Especially in a company that makes paper??
If employers want their employees to be happier and healthier they need to pay them better (for their work, not for whatever unrelated and out of hours activity they decide to "reward") and give them more time off, anything else is profit seeking bullshit.
Yeah good point. I should have said "interesting idea in theory." I fully agree with you
They probably don't even get the job. Probably along anyone with bad knees, flat feet, obesity, or other conditions
lol obesity is a condition now.
Isn’t it? What would you describe it as?
Being fat is a life choice, not a disease you catch or develop.
If you want your bonus, don’t be fat. Seems like pretty good incentive to me.
That's why we call it a condition though, not a disease. People have a right to make mistakes, right? We can call the consequences of mistakes, conditions. Lung cancer from smoking, a broken arm from mountainbiking, tennis arm from leisure activities. Life choices can lead to conditions, regardless of their perceived healtiness.
Obesity itself is probably too vague and non specific to be usefully called a disease. The basic measurement for obesity, BMI, would classify bodybuilders or strengthen based athletes as obese. Bodybuilders and strong people can often be unhealthy, but it's not quite the same as someone with high body fat.
Even then, people who are obese because of high body fat might have their lives shortened through multiple mechanisms. It could be heart disease that kills them, skeletal problems due to weight, immune issues, digestive issues, practically every organ can be affected. Any or all of these things could occur in a chronically obese person, so even if pathologized, obesity is less useful as a diagnosis.
Excess weight is bad, but you can calculate weight/height without a doctor. Focusing on better nutrition, eating habits, and exercise is the solution, even if you're young and have a high metabolism. That sugar in our food needs to be taxed or regulated, as economic incentives drive obesity rather than people being uniquely stupid or culturally degenerate.
You realize how hard it is to not gain weight in today's society? Unless you get a good dietitian, it's hard AF not to get fatter everyday, especially when the media brainwashes everyone into thinking it's fats and not sugars where the problem lies. And don't get me started into how HFCS is added to practically EVERYTHING, or how the food pyramid itself is BS and not recommended by health professionals nowadays.
It takes a Tibetan monk with steel willforce and a team of doctors not to consume soda or the occasional snack, and to buy the appropriate food consumption choices to avoid adding to your body weight.
And I'm not even counting heart conditions, workplace limitations, life obligations, the increasing unavailability of healthy foods for the working class, the asinine healthcare design, the toxic conditions of tap water (cough Flint water crisis cough), the pretty much nonexistent health programs in schools, and the utterly lethal suburban design which forces people to spend at least an hour a day behind the wheel to do their daily tasks, and, you know, fucking poverty fucking everywhere.
Personal responsibility is just victim blaming by any other name. Prople who are eager to dismiss obesity as a willforce problem seriously need to touch some grass.
A good dietician will limit your fat intake, because that is where most of the calories come from and where cholesterol is. Sugar is also problematic but only in refined form, and in fat people. The theory being that it's fat that limits the response to sugars, I'm oversimplifying but this theory is at the heart of the sugar/fat debate. Dieticians aren't debating this, mostly health gurus and doctors online are. The research into health versus diet is very clear and very much understood. Less processed food, more whole foods, less animal products, more plants. (fruit, grains, legumes, vegetables, nuts and seeds.)
And yes I do agree that the availability of healthy food is very limited and that understanding how or even what a healthy diet is, especially from consuming social media, is hard. The food industry is a multi billion profit industry, there are a lot of conflicting interests. But heart associations, diabetes association, association of dieticians, world health organisations, and many more are screaming from the rooftops. So it's also not impossible to figure it out. But if you're left to the almighty wisdom of 'the market' you're fucked. Yes, it's hard to stay healthy and skinny.
It takes a Tibetan monk with steel willforce and a team of doctors not to consume soda or the occasional snack, and to buy the appropriate food consumption choices to avoid adding to your body weight.
I guess I'm a Tibetan monk with steel will-force and a team of doctors then. These are two of the easiest things to avoid that also gain you the most weight, show some restraint. Just don't buy these things.
Or a middle class white guy who has never had to ensure poverty.
Stop eating.
No one can beat the 2nd law of thermodynamics
Stop eating = lose weight and die quickly
Contniue over eating = develop long term health issues and die early.
Equilibrium exists between these two extremes.
It's different for everyone. Find you balance, and live it. You don't have to be a monk or I have the iron will or a frontiersman to to just think "I know I'm still hungry, but maybe I shouldn't have a 2nd cheeseburger tonight"
OF COURSE IT'S DIFFERENT FOR EVERYONE. That's my fucking point.
My issue is with ignorant people who judge everyone based on oversimplified premises.
Sugary snacks mess up your metabolysm. You stop burning fat. Your blood sugar gets imbalanced, you get highs and lows. And when you hit the lows, you feel exhausted and super hungry. And you have no idea what's messing you up because no matter how much you eat, you still get hungry, so you eat much more than what you ought to because your metabolism is fucked up and your brain gets the wrong signals. You try to cut your fat, but that gets you even more hungry, so you eat more carbs (even diet carbs like oatmeals and such) which then mess your blood sugar even more.
Even if you do exercise, you still end up getting fatter. Drinking diet soda doesn't fix it and gets you even hungrier.
And while you're doing the impossible to cut as much fat as you can, you still get fatter, your mood gets explosive, you can't sleep well, and then people are telling you to eat less and that you're not putting enough effort. Meanwhile your stomach is in unbearable pain because your hunger is out of control.
Also, you know what messes up hunger? Depression. There's just so many factors to take into account.
Anyway, you know how I finally broke that vicious circle (after I got my mental health under control)? I cut my carbs. I quit all sugary snacks (even the small ones). I quit all sodas and concentrated fruit juices. Started to consume more animal fat, against the "common knowledge". Whenever I got hungry, I didn't eat a snack. I just ate normally. Ham, a hotdog, milk, or even an egg. It wasn't easy and I woke up at 4AM in the morning all hungry. It was hell for two weeks. But after those two weeks I got better and my system got the balance it needed.
Boom. Lost 5 lbs in one month. I stopped getting tired. I was more energetic. I got better at the job.
But it took me years, literally years to find out it was the damn snacks (which were small enough to appear harmless) and the sodas with HFCS that were the ones at fault.
All these years of failed trial and error just to find out fats were not the enemy. But suuure, it was me eating two burgers instead of one.
I was NOT eating like a fucking pig. I was NOT supersizing my meals. But sure, armchair dietitians on reddit know what's best for me, right?
It's ignorant people giving unscientific advice who make life a living hell for the rest of us.
"Cut the fats". Yeah, right.
I too have a love/hate relationship with sugar. I want it in my chocolates, NOT MY FUCKING GRANOLA ASSHOLES!!!
I know I'm still hungry, but maybe I shouldn't have a 2nd cheeseburger tonight
As a fat person, I never face that decision (well ok, not never, once or twice a year around the holidays maybe). Most of the time it's more like "should I throw away half of this meal I paid for or finish eating it?" That's a bit harder to do, especially when you were raised to clean your plate or you'd be physically punished. Conditioning is a bitch.
Why is your decision not: “I think I’ll save this for later?” I think your two options are severely flawed. You are going to be hungry before that food goes bad, save that shit for later 😋😋
I do when I can, but often it's not an option, like not going home or anywhere I have access to a refrigerator, or I'm on my motorcycle and no way to carry it...
All I read is excuses, be better than that. Take each day as a new day to begin making better choices and new good habits that work. I only say this because I was there, you got this, you just have to try and in addition to that not make an excuse when you hit a bump in the road. Fuck that, plough through, you’ll be fine. It’s not a temporary change, this is a permanent lifestyle change….or choose to do none of that and stay the way you are.
No I get it, I was over 300lbs last year, I'm now under that and slowly making progress, it just gets on my nerves when people have the attitude of "it's easy, just make the choice to eat less" like it's a one time thing, it's not, it's constant. It's like telling alcoholics "it's easy, just don't drink". I might even argue it's easier to quit drugs, because you can live without. I quit smoking years ago, it was a rough but it gets easier the longer you don't do it. I can't just stop eating cold turkey.
It's the obese who need to touch grass buddy. It's not that hard to maintain a healthy weight if you put any effort at all. Literally just looking at the calories of what you're consuming will cover it for almost everyone. If you actually exercise on top of that it's easy mode.
Bro it's not hard at all to stay skinny, regardless of what country you live in. All you gotta do is eat less often and work out more. It's that simple. Count calories for week if you need to, to establish a baseline for how much you should be eating.
That, or do what I did and get a job that requires physical labor. You'll get plenty of excersise, and you'll be too tired at the end of the day to eat. That's how I dropped 15 lbs in two weeks; got a warehouse job. After a 10 hour shift, all I want to do is go home and sleep.
Obesity is a bodily state based on inputs and outputs
Greatly, greatly, influenced by genetics. I've known people, hell I've dated people, who ate better and worked out more than I did, but were still fat af. Meanwhile I just do a little jog and basically can eat whatever I want.
I'm not going to go and pretend I'm not fat because I've made smart choices.
Nah. It's more about inherenting eating habits than genes. Also it's much easier to gain weight if you've been obese during your youth. Eating is also an unhealthy coping mechanism for a lot of people. Genes is probably on fifth place if not lower.
I'm a fatass now, but up until my 30s I was skinny, underweight even. I eat less (and better) now than I did then, so obviously there's more to it.
Run 2 miles/day to receive a bonus of 130% my salary? That seems insanely good value and this is coming from someone who has run about a total of 2 miles since I left school.
Get the train to work and park just over a mile away, run to catch the train and go to work. After work run back to your car. Instant 130% salary increase
Unless you're disabled, elderly or otherwise unable to do this... Not to mention how is this tracked? I don't want MY employer knowing what I do or where I go in my free time.
Yes, of course there needs to be exceptions for those less able.
It’s tracked by a fitness app according to the article. Just turn off permissions once you’ve finished your run.
Ooo boy, time to fire up my GPS spoofer!
Yes, of course there needs to be exceptions for those less able.
So people would need to disclose their medical information to their employer now too, and also hope that they not only keep it private, but consider it at all, with all... none of their medical knowledge? Oh, sorry, only disabled people, you know, so that they can qualify for whatever "exceptions" to this discriminatory bullshit the boss comes up with...
Only thing required is this to be made explicitly illegal.
It's because these employees needed these bonuses. They were essentially a normal part of their compensation. Now it's being held hostage.
It's the amount that get crazy, my work has some goodies/benefit for people who exercises, but it's like a free T shirt once in a while, a charity event where they give 1€ per kilometer to charity, and negotiated discount for some activities.
But a 30% or even more bonus?
Michael Scott's Dunder Mifflin Scranton Meredith Palmer Memorial Celebrity Rabies Awareness Pro-Am Fun Run Race For the Cure.
That episode even had Kevin insisting he doesn't want to run and Michael threatening to fire him.
Thanks for saving me the search.
Also, there was the one where they were testing their sprinting speed with the radar sign, and Michael claimed he was running at 30 mph because a car drove by while he was going.
100km/mo = 3.33km/day or A little over 2 miles a day.
Which sounds do-able if you're fit and healthy. But what if you're disabled or partially disabled?
Reality is you dont want to run every day. You can. But you should not for the sake of your joints.
Realistically this should be 6-8kms, 3-4 times a week.
Fast walking is about 90% of the benefits of running with 10% the injury potential (casual assessment)
If you can't do 2 miles a day you are nowhere even close to the realm of a healthy person. Like not even within a 100 miles of healthy
Or disabled. I found out yesterday I get to go back into a total contact cast for a foot deformity. :( I currently can't walk to the mailbox, forget about two miles.
You don't even need to be disabled to be unable to run or do heavy exercises. There are several conditions that can make running painful or impossible, like arthritis, athrosis, hernias, respiratory problems, etc.
Tying the bonuses to how fit you are is straight up evil. I highly doubt the boss will pay for medical expenses of people that push themselves too far to get the most money, who, ironically, might effectively end up losing that extra money.
Workers record their exercises and distances using fitness apps.
Clearly nobody will find a way to cheat that, no siree!
This area has been pretty well explored by Pokemon Go players already. On Android there's an app called defit that has multiple options for adding fake exercise data to your Google fit account which is where Pokemon Go, and typically these insurance apps, pull their info from.
Walking is one of the fitness activities people that are not disabled can walk.
Some guy pushes himself too much, dies from a heart attack and they cancel the initiative
touches nose not it!
At one previous company where I worked I started a karate dojo, and I gave voluntarily classes. About 40% of the company regularly trained with me and we all got ripped, it was awesome
That's a great way to do it, not tie work bonuses to it.
One of my previous jobs did something similar to this only without reward and public shaming as the punishment. We were all cube workers forced to do army standard tests and training after work.
that is genuine hell, my god
ITT: I’m fat. I don’t wanna.
Also itt: when the employer says "run" you ask how much, you peasant, you should never question decisions of your master
"Sorry boss, I can't come to work today, I haven't met my monthly miles, gotta run 🏃♂️🏃♂️"
Man I would love this
I can't run because of a physical disability.
If I worked for this company I'd already be calling a lawyer, and I bet firms would be begging to take the case.
Lawyer: did you contact HR or attempt to request reasonable accommodation and were denied?
You: no, I just want money
Lawyer: how about you do your job instead of thinking you know how mine works and earn money that way. Get out.
Oh, please smartass, do tell us what reasonable accommodation could be made in this case, that isn't in itself discriminatory? (keeping in mind of course, that using a wheelchair, despite it probably being the only indication of disability you can think of, is only one in millions of variations of access needs) (edit: and of course lets not forget that forcing employees to disclose medical information is also illegal)
I won't hold my breath... 🙄
Should ask the employer instead of random internet folks.
Any other reasonable alternative agreed upon by both parties for the employee to do something that improves their health. Employee is not being forced to disclose any medical information. It's a voluntary program. If the employee chooses to go the ADA route, that's a willing choice.
Just face it that you don't understand how the legal system, ADA, or your own rights work.
You are entitled to reasonable accommodation upon your request, nothing more. The article mentioned a couple alternatives to running, indicating the company is willing to meet the specific needs of employees. The article may not have explicitly mentioned your specific needs, but that does not mean that the company would refuse reasonable accommodation.
The only thing that would happen from you calling your lawyer is you'd owe your lawyer money.
Yes, firms would be begging to take your case. On retainer. You'd be hard pressed to find one to take it on contingency.
Clearly they are trying to get their employees to be fitter and healthier but this seems a bit ham-fisted. I’m also betting that the real policy is more nuanced than portrayed here.
So... An ADA suit for discrimination waiting to happen then.. 🙄🤦♀️
Chinese company. No idea what disability discrimination laws they have in place, if any.
Fair (and I'd actually just come back to edit that I realise this isn't in the US), but the point still stands - this is blatant discrimination, no matter where it's happening..
For sure. I'd be first in line to complain if I worked there... assuming my mobility impairment didn't get in the way of that 😅
Lol, same.. 😬
ADA only requires "reasonable accommodation". A couple alternatives to running were presented, indicating the company is willing to cooperate with the specific needs of workers. That the article fails to mention any specific accommodations for handicapped workers does not mean that such accommodations won't be made.
A blanket policy covering all disabled employees is not ADA compliant. Accommodations are supposed to be made on a case-by-case basis, based on the specific needs of the specific employee. Without knowing the capabilities and needs of a specific employee, we cannot determine what would constitute a reasonable accommodation.
Yes, strictly applying this policy to disabled employees would be discriminatory, but there is precisely zero evidence suggesting that it will be applied that way.
If I could swim it, count me in (even miles, I try to swim about 1.5 miles every time I hit the gym, I could bump that to 2)
I have no idea but that sound like a ridiculous number of lengths, which is the only way I know how to measure swimming.
Lin's plan has faced plenty of mockery on Chinese social media sites, but Guangzhou Daily says his company's staff are happy with the bonus scheme. Or maybe they're just too frightened/exhausted to complain about having to run for their money.
Maybe his employees are all marathoner.
Swimming is better for your joints
Leave it up to Lemmy users to paint paying employees to be healthy as a bad thing...
That's not paying to be healthy, it's withholding money until you dance their little dance, no matter the circumstances.
Not everyone should run, not everyone can run, but regardless, it's degrading and evil.
The best way to ensure people are happy is to remove stress from their lives. If you're employer, it means good working conditions and good pay, not hunger squid games
it's withholding money until you dance their little dance
Okay so if they don't exercise, it's deducted from the compensation they've earned? I must have misunderstood.
told his workers that their year-end bonuses had been canceled. Instead, the money will be distributed across each coming month, and how much employees receive will depend on how far they run.
Kinda seems like "canceled bonus" should have been in the headline...
There is also an option to read more than a headline
My time and attention is finite.
And yet you chose to waste it on skimming trough headlines and arguing in comments about shit you hadn't read. You don't seem to value it at all
Better than using it to give free views to articles with clickbait headlines.
Nope, not better at all. Worse, since you're getting l nothing useful from that, and on top of that you making the discourse worse with your uninformed comment
That's the author's fault, not mine.
Yeah, instead of just leaving their article as a merely words for you to ignore they should've come to your house and read it to you out loud until you get it. It's an easy mistake a lot of authors make, they have nobody but them to blame
Honestly, giving bonuses for employees having healthy habits seems fine. It's not like anyone is entitled to bonuses, they're not "withholding" bonuses or anything, they're just giving extra incentives to live well.
I'm disabled, if I worked at that company they would absolutely be withholding something from me, as well as plain old discriminating against me for my disability.
Fuck this hyper-capitalist ableist bullshit, and fuck cheering it on.
China is "hyper-capitalist"? 🤔
Yes.
Fuck that noise. I workout 5 days per week, either doing martial arts or lifting. I can't run because of a knee that got routered out from an infection. So, despite the fact that I'm far healthier than the slobs I work with, I get no bonus? Yeah, fuck that.
It's also noted that other activities count toward the targets: running is calculated as 1:1; mountain climbing is calculated as 1:0.6; and walking is calculated as 1:0.3. Workers record their exercises and distances using fitness apps.
From the article. Although if being healthy is their goal then they better also provide free healthcare and yearly check up.
China, so healthcare is baked in.
It doesn't have to be specifically running, you could theoretically have a list of healthy activities/diet/etc and people can earn up to x% bonus by doing them, let people mix and match activities as their health/body allows. If someone can't do any of the activities due to health reasons exceptions could be made.
you could theoretically have a list of healthy activities/diet/etc and people can earn up to x% bonus by doing them, let people mix and match activities as their health/body allows. I
Or, you know, just pay your employees enough and give them enough time off and watch their fucking health skyrocket. This is not being done for the benefit of the employees.
Also, if you have to create exceptions for disabled people in your scheme, you are by definition excluding and discriminating against them.
The article states specifically running with specific distance milestones.
Yeah, I was just talking about the idea of providing incentives for healthy activities as a general concept.
Fuck employees with cancer or other medical conditions!
ITT: people who couldn't want a mile if they were PAID TO.
Employers controlling their workers “time off” is old fashioned dystopia.
It's entirely voluntarily (hence bonus), and has huge benefits for your self. I fail to see what the problem is.
My company does the same thing, and so do many others.
Your company is abusing it's employees. Imagine if it was something other than exercise how abusive it would be.
With how a lot of jobs have a lot of their pay based on nearly mandatory bonuses, this is basing pay on controlling you outside of work.
Except it's not, because it's exclusively about health. It's a discount health insurance companies offer to companies, and the company uses that money to encourage employees to be healthier.
Your insurance benefit offered after health milestones isn't 30-130% of your salary though
100km for 130%, when 50km will already get you 100%? Not worth it in the least.
Depending on how they track it, exploiting that shouldn't be too hard.
I didnt see what was the appeal for companies until I realized they were US based companies and had to provide health insurance for their employees
Next up they will be forcing you to a plant based diet or maybe straight to veganism. Slippery slope towards forced sterilization or some other Radical procedure that saves them money but is not necessary.
He literally canceled their bonuses and said “lol go run for it dipshit”
Imagine getting your bonus cancelled and told to go do more work to get it back.
Fuck this guy and fuck Chinese labour standards.
You don't have to run. My lazy ass clears 6k steps each day just living life. That's counts as walking, which is worth 1/3rd steps but still makes it a mile a day. I would be getting 100% bonus with literally no life change. Sign me up! Meanwhile, I never bonused working retail because people stealing carts crushed my EBITA every quarter.
Are you a fucking idiot?
Go work in a fucking Chinese paper factory all day for not enough money to live, and then go have part of your salary taken away and be told to do more work.
Maybe after having a second of fucking realisation you won’t come back and spout such dumbarse nonsense.
You obviously are a fucking idiot because a bonus isn't your salary shithead. Also this is the most trivial nonsense I've ever heard of to bonus 100%. I live in America where I've never once gotten 100% of my goddammit bonus fuckface. Being told that you get all of it for wearing a pedometer is literal childs play to me. Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit baby agression and jerk off or something instead.
I fucking wish I worked in a Chinese paper factory and got bonuses! Like seriously, get a goddammit clue. If that sounds like hard work to you, then you've literally never seen one, and you must have baby soft keyboard hands.
You’re an absolute moron.
I too wish you get to work in a Chinese factory.
I'm surprised you can even spell moron. I bet the reason you think it's so bad is because you're a piece of shit racist. Get over yourself.
Looks much nicer than my workplace. I also work with Chinese manufacturers and know how many holidays they get off too, so unlike you, I'm not actually ignorant to your average Chinese persons working environment and make believe its some hellscape. Our middle class is collapsing while theirs has grown substantially. Their government does some crazy shit but we're no exception.
Haha oh geez imagine thinking it’s racist to have a negative view of another countries labour conditions.
I’m probably racist to Americans because I think yours are shit too right?
You really do deserve to work in that fact, go apply for it!
At least you finally admit it.
Totally racist against Americans, good job genius.
Go beg for some tips or whatever other shit you find acceptable.
It's the only explanation for why you came in acting like a piece of rank shit in a polite conversation, then believed telling someone to work in a Chinese paper mill would be an insult. Now that I know it's because you are a hateful bigot, I just feel sad for you.
@Quokkla
@Sarmyth
@Quokka
@Sarmyth
Lemmy moment.
No, seriously calm down poeple, lol. This is not reddit.
Got some keyboard warriors out here
Sometimes, you just gotta act like a Klingon to talk to a Klingon.
Not all of us can run. Simple as that.
Not all of these programs explicitly require running with no alternatives for people who can't run.
Most that I've seen are usually just based on "exercise minutes" depending on how your device tracks those. The Apple watch is really lenient and I get 50% of my daily goal just walking to work.
Start by walking?
What about people on wheelchairs, numbnuts?
I'm sure they offer alternatives. Not everything is so black and white.
Our companies in particular is just 30 exercise minutes so you can do whatever you want to get your heart rate up.
Sex. I want my company to pay me to sex. I feel like I could totally get behind that. Sexually.
A 2-mile run per day is about 20-30 minutes of cardio. You can count sex, but how are you going to get the other 19-29 minutes?
Literally one of my co workers does that.
I hope 'going to therapy to treat your depression because you can't force yourself to go out and exercise' is offered as an alternative too.
If the company is operating in good faith, they will be making "reasonable accommodations" for disabled workers.
The top tier of this program requires about 30 minutes of running per day. I'm sure we can find a similarly intensive workout to meet the needs and capabilities of disabled workers, numbnuts.
If they're going on with this idea, they're definitely not operating in good faith.
Nothing in the article even suggests they are operating in bad faith.
The company is basically asking them to voluntarily extend their work day by 15 to 30 minutes, but instead of offering time-and-a-half they would be entitled to as "overtime", they will double, or more than double their wages.
That roughly 30 minute period of activity is worth about 16 times their hourly pay.
The year end bonus was canceled in order to enforce this "healthy" change during the coming months. The workers lost something they were supposed to get because some asshole wanted them to be "healthier". There's a considerable chance that the company will distribute less money to the workers that way.
It's not about keeping workers healthy, it's about saving money, that's bad faith.
Do you think they would be included in this bonus program?
If they want to be a part of employees health and well-being they can pay health insurance or start the day with a hit sessions or yoga or tai chi.
They absolutely shouldn't be encouraging, through their bonus scheme, people to do work associated activities in their spare time.
I understand your view I just don't like that this is how they've chosen to encourage such a thing.
My work has a marathon every year, during work hours on a voluntary basis and logs training miles for competition. Never affects earnings or personal time.
What if you took that money and applied towards your health costs?
What money?
Because it is a transparent attempt to pay less bonuses and I am betting exploits some condition in the insurance and/or tax code to get a better deal for the corporation.
How about companies just pay the end of the year bonus and not make a big deal about it?
Read the article, it's no exploit, it's China.
Lawful =/= non-exploitative
I'm not attempting to excuse the behavior by any means (no matter how much it sounds otherwise).
Just explaining that this is behavior we can and should expect from an authoritarian state with no regard for human rights. Hopefully that clarifies things a little bit.
Yes, and reading the parent I see they were speaking of exploiting laws, not people specifically. Thanks for clarifying, hope you have a nice day
Thank you! I wish you the same
Or it's because insurance companies offer discounts for companies that offer these programs. The employer uses some (or all) of that money to encourage employees to be healthier which A. makes them healthier. B. saves the insurance company/insurance money. C. helps boost productivity. and D. makes everyone overall happier.
Bonuses should not be expected, or they're not bonuses. I get that. But making them available only to those able to do some physical test is discrimination.
But you're a fuckwit..
Meanwhile, assholes at the top get bonuses if the company is profitable. Seeing a bit of a discrepancy here
If it's on company time, it's fine.
Jeff Bezos: It's inside the Amazon warehouse, while working.
You are not allowed to stop moving or eliminate your waste. It's because we care about you
My work is somehow promoting sport over lunch break (well there is always an Ass hole setting a meeting at 13) but it's lunch break, not work time. However, during that time we build connections with other employees, talk about work, so basically free cross department team building for the company
I don't think hungry employees will tolerate that for long. Or maybe it's a way for higher ups to get rid of "possible nuisances"
My health is nearly none of my employer's business. I will not be telling them when or how I exercise.
This is a gross invasion of privacy.
There isn't much difference between a "bonus" and a penalty, given enough notice.
I kind of like the Japanese culture of the workplace being in charge of the health of their workers. This is why they all exercise for the first 30 min of their shift. If they are overweight, they find a solution.
Is it invasive? Kind of, yeah. Pretty much. Idk. Maybe the bonus shouldn't ride on the fitness, but I think the workplaces should be more involved in the health of their employees.
Japan has a fraction of the obesity as the USA.(BMI >/=30, J%:3.8M/3.2F to USA%:43.0M/41.9F)
Also they have 1/3rd the % of population with disabilities at 4.3% vs the USA with 13%.
I'm not saying the brief forced workout routine by their employers has results, by no means, what I am getting at is that shit wouldn't fly in America and any attempt would end in failure due to our cultural relationship with food.
To be fair it is kind of their business just in a very indirect and invasive way.
Your health affects your performance, your health affects their health insurance, disability, and life insurance premiums.
This means that as far as the faceless entity of a business goes your health is its concern. Now whether we agree to just accept that or not as a whole other story.
On a personal level I wouldn't mind my employer being more involved in my health, not invasively or privacy violating like the above. Providing access to nutritionists or trainers, supplementing a gym membership under the agreement that I actually use it. Making exercise equipment and group workout sessions available. Things like that.
"firm in China". Pretty sure China doesn't deal with "health insurance, disability, and life insurance premiums."
Unless the company is going to allow me to run in company time or pay me my base pay plus overtime on top of the bonus that's a hard fuck no from me.
Company wants my time, they better damn well pay for it.
ETA. Thinking about it more, nah this whole running for your bonus is bullshit and I wouldn't do it even if they paid me overtime since running/exercising unless your job is directly related to it, running has nothing to do with work performance which the bonus is based on.
But they are paying you for it. Not for your time specifically but for your distance. Idk if you read the article but highest tier is 130% of your base salary.
No they are not. A bonus is for your performance at work and when I run it's on my own damn time.
IDGAF how much of a bonus it is, 30% is all fine and dandy but again, if they aren't letting employees run on company time or paying employees for the time while they run during their off hours, then it's still a fuck no from me and it's complete bullshit to base a performance based bonus on you doing shit on your off time.
But hey, if you like having your company keeping tabs on how much you run vs how well you actually do at work for your bonus, I guess good for you, just not my cup of tea.
What if you get this bonus on top of your normal bonus? Would you walk then?
Again, no because a bonus is based on your performance at work, how you coworkers performed, how you all performed together at work and unless your work was directly related to you and your team running and even then you'd be running on company time.
A person running has fuck all to do with performance at work and thinking about it more especially more with the various people I have and do work with, I find myself thinking how this really is an assinine idea that is not only a overstep into community script territory but also could be a very shitty thing for employee morale.
A bonus can be anything. Doesn't necessarily have to be tied to your performance. It's called a discretionary bonus
My question assumes you get your normal performance-based bonus... But you get an additional bonus based on your walking
Maybe it's just me, but I find it mind-boggling that you wouldn't do it. You're getting paid to be healthy, essentially...
This screams I'm overweight.
I'm not overweight but fucking hate running.
I'll never understand why anyone enjoys running. I absolutely hate it and feel terrible after running. I ran every day for 22 years (former military) and hated every single day.
I prefer rowing, that is actually fun.
Rowing is great! I hate exercise but once I got my rowing machine, I finally enjoyed it!
Rowing is awesome!
I personally love running because it's a time where I can just let my mind wander, reflect, or just have it go blank.
Plus it also helps when your half marathon path ended at the brewery where you have a tab.
There are other physical activities that people enjoy that do the same exact thing. Another person mentioned rowing, but riding a bicycle is also similar. The point is, not everyone likes running, even if they do like letting their mind wander.
Okay...and no where did I advocate that running is the only thing anyone can do.
Dude asked for an opinion of why a person would love running and so I gave one. No need to get all defensive, take it down a notch there.
Well, fair enough. But the other person did not ask for an opinion, quite the opposite even. They said they will never understand it. So at least to me it felt a bit like you were trying to convince the other person that running is better.
This screams I hate exercise and I'm overweight.
This screams I'm a pedantic little cuntnugget.
I'm sorry, the last two comments were immature and not representative of who I am. Don't know what came over me, but it's not the way to behave or act online or in person.
You don't have to accept this apology but know I strive to be better than what this comment chain shows.
Again sorry.
What the hell, a person reflecting their actions (somewhat) immediately without someone prompting them to do so. Good on you, dude.
Why are you so angry in every comment?
This screams I'm a complete moron that can't understand or have a intellectual discussion over a topic so I'll just do a dumbass ad hominem attack.
I run anyway, may as well get paid for it
I mean me too, but not for money
Now you'd technically be a professional runner.
DoD employees get paid to workout during the workday at least. It's nice.
In theory.
In practice, it has to be approved by your supervisor and is only for times when it won't interfere with progress on actual work.
So all they've gotta do is give you a lot of work to do...or just say no...and you don't get that anymore.
It's never been an issue for us. People go before they come in or at the end of the day. We're at a Air Force base so if be different at other installations.
Ok, so as a former Navy guy I have to ask, does golf count as "exercise" in the Air Force?
No because it's assumed you'll use the golfcart. Spinning in chairs counts if you do it long enough to work up a sweat.
I mean, that kind of makes sense. "Maintain battle readyness" and all that. I would expect everyone in the military, law enforcement, or emergency response should be paid also.
Firefighter isn't going to carry someone down a flight of stairs if they have that "Body By Dunkin'"
Thus why I did it, just didn't like running.
Yeah I wouldn't even want to play video games if my bonus was contingent on it. Way to suck the joy out of something positive, corpos
I would add: And bonuses are a BS excuse to overwork employees and making them work overtime for free. Having to go above and beyond simply to earn the end of year bonus caused me huge amounts of stress, anxiety, depression, and even affected my physical health.
You know how I solved that problem? By quitting and moving to a better company.
I mean being active anyway is a good thing for you And if the bonus is 30% of your monthly salary each month to do a bare minimum of movement that sounds like easy money
Other than the disability, privacy and disability concerns already raised- Running is SO boring. What if you prefer other cardio activity or a mix of strength training and cardio? Why does it have to be running?
I also can’t see how this doesn’t open them up to lawsuits for any injuries incurred from a sprained ankle to a blown out knee or a heart attack. I’m a manager in a large company, and I got a bit nervous at some of the offsite activities, and those were mild things like dunk tanks. Plus I bet the entertainment company or venue carries that insurance. This is literally making the run part of the job, and it’s a relatively dangerous activity.
It's in China... You might end up in a work camp for getting injured and speaking up about it.
You and most people in this thread are right but I'm sure that can't be a concern in their legal framework, otherwise they wouldn't have come up with the idea.
I know a number of companies that have introduced exercise programs. In every case it’s clearly done on the employee’s own time, is made accommodating, and the reward for completing your 4000 steps per day or whatever is a tee shirt or something. It’s not that these things can’t be done.
Plus companies do stupid things that get them sued all the time. Look at Elon.
The article says climbing and walking are both accepted.
It's still a bit of a mockery to ask employees on wheelchairs to get up and walk if they want their bonuses.
What about fu-- uhh jumping?
Fu-- uhh jumping Jack is fine as well.
Running has always been where I was able to just let my mind wonder. It's like meditating while exercising.
I understand what they're trying to do, but this is just not equitable. You'd have to figure out how to handle this for people who cannot run (such as wheelchair users). This greatly favours those with more free time and less obligations (such as people with no kids). It favours those already in shape and those who have fewer health issues.
This will favour those who already have it better off, which is the opposite of equity.
Good idea in theory, but I don't like the model where it's applied based on output.
What is the good part in theory? I can't see how what/how much exercise, if a person chooses/is able to do it at all, is relevant to their job? Especially in a company that makes paper??
If employers want their employees to be happier and healthier they need to pay them better (for their work, not for whatever unrelated and out of hours activity they decide to "reward") and give them more time off, anything else is profit seeking bullshit.
Yeah good point. I should have said "interesting idea in theory." I fully agree with you
So disabled employees get no bonuses?
They probably don't even get the job. Probably along anyone with bad knees, flat feet, obesity, or other conditions
lol obesity is a condition now.
Isn’t it? What would you describe it as?
Being fat is a life choice, not a disease you catch or develop.
If you want your bonus, don’t be fat. Seems like pretty good incentive to me.
That's why we call it a condition though, not a disease. People have a right to make mistakes, right? We can call the consequences of mistakes, conditions. Lung cancer from smoking, a broken arm from mountainbiking, tennis arm from leisure activities. Life choices can lead to conditions, regardless of their perceived healtiness.
Obesity itself is probably too vague and non specific to be usefully called a disease. The basic measurement for obesity, BMI, would classify bodybuilders or strengthen based athletes as obese. Bodybuilders and strong people can often be unhealthy, but it's not quite the same as someone with high body fat.
Even then, people who are obese because of high body fat might have their lives shortened through multiple mechanisms. It could be heart disease that kills them, skeletal problems due to weight, immune issues, digestive issues, practically every organ can be affected. Any or all of these things could occur in a chronically obese person, so even if pathologized, obesity is less useful as a diagnosis.
Excess weight is bad, but you can calculate weight/height without a doctor. Focusing on better nutrition, eating habits, and exercise is the solution, even if you're young and have a high metabolism. That sugar in our food needs to be taxed or regulated, as economic incentives drive obesity rather than people being uniquely stupid or culturally degenerate.
You realize how hard it is to not gain weight in today's society? Unless you get a good dietitian, it's hard AF not to get fatter everyday, especially when the media brainwashes everyone into thinking it's fats and not sugars where the problem lies. And don't get me started into how HFCS is added to practically EVERYTHING, or how the food pyramid itself is BS and not recommended by health professionals nowadays.
It takes a Tibetan monk with steel willforce and a team of doctors not to consume soda or the occasional snack, and to buy the appropriate food consumption choices to avoid adding to your body weight.
And I'm not even counting heart conditions, workplace limitations, life obligations, the increasing unavailability of healthy foods for the working class, the asinine healthcare design, the toxic conditions of tap water (cough Flint water crisis cough), the pretty much nonexistent health programs in schools, and the utterly lethal suburban design which forces people to spend at least an hour a day behind the wheel to do their daily tasks, and, you know, fucking poverty fucking everywhere.
Personal responsibility is just victim blaming by any other name. Prople who are eager to dismiss obesity as a willforce problem seriously need to touch some grass.
A good dietician will limit your fat intake, because that is where most of the calories come from and where cholesterol is. Sugar is also problematic but only in refined form, and in fat people. The theory being that it's fat that limits the response to sugars, I'm oversimplifying but this theory is at the heart of the sugar/fat debate. Dieticians aren't debating this, mostly health gurus and doctors online are. The research into health versus diet is very clear and very much understood. Less processed food, more whole foods, less animal products, more plants. (fruit, grains, legumes, vegetables, nuts and seeds.)
And yes I do agree that the availability of healthy food is very limited and that understanding how or even what a healthy diet is, especially from consuming social media, is hard. The food industry is a multi billion profit industry, there are a lot of conflicting interests. But heart associations, diabetes association, association of dieticians, world health organisations, and many more are screaming from the rooftops. So it's also not impossible to figure it out. But if you're left to the almighty wisdom of 'the market' you're fucked. Yes, it's hard to stay healthy and skinny.
I guess I'm a Tibetan monk with steel will-force and a team of doctors then. These are two of the easiest things to avoid that also gain you the most weight, show some restraint. Just don't buy these things.
Or a middle class white guy who has never had to ensure poverty.
Stop eating.
No one can beat the 2nd law of thermodynamics
Stop eating = lose weight and die quickly
Contniue over eating = develop long term health issues and die early.
Equilibrium exists between these two extremes.
It's different for everyone. Find you balance, and live it. You don't have to be a monk or I have the iron will or a frontiersman to to just think "I know I'm still hungry, but maybe I shouldn't have a 2nd cheeseburger tonight"
OF COURSE IT'S DIFFERENT FOR EVERYONE. That's my fucking point.
My issue is with ignorant people who judge everyone based on oversimplified premises.
Sugary snacks mess up your metabolysm. You stop burning fat. Your blood sugar gets imbalanced, you get highs and lows. And when you hit the lows, you feel exhausted and super hungry. And you have no idea what's messing you up because no matter how much you eat, you still get hungry, so you eat much more than what you ought to because your metabolism is fucked up and your brain gets the wrong signals. You try to cut your fat, but that gets you even more hungry, so you eat more carbs (even diet carbs like oatmeals and such) which then mess your blood sugar even more.
Even if you do exercise, you still end up getting fatter. Drinking diet soda doesn't fix it and gets you even hungrier.
And while you're doing the impossible to cut as much fat as you can, you still get fatter, your mood gets explosive, you can't sleep well, and then people are telling you to eat less and that you're not putting enough effort. Meanwhile your stomach is in unbearable pain because your hunger is out of control.
Also, you know what messes up hunger? Depression. There's just so many factors to take into account.
Anyway, you know how I finally broke that vicious circle (after I got my mental health under control)? I cut my carbs. I quit all sugary snacks (even the small ones). I quit all sodas and concentrated fruit juices. Started to consume more animal fat, against the "common knowledge". Whenever I got hungry, I didn't eat a snack. I just ate normally. Ham, a hotdog, milk, or even an egg. It wasn't easy and I woke up at 4AM in the morning all hungry. It was hell for two weeks. But after those two weeks I got better and my system got the balance it needed.
Boom. Lost 5 lbs in one month. I stopped getting tired. I was more energetic. I got better at the job.
But it took me years, literally years to find out it was the damn snacks (which were small enough to appear harmless) and the sodas with HFCS that were the ones at fault.
All these years of failed trial and error just to find out fats were not the enemy. But suuure, it was me eating two burgers instead of one.
I was NOT eating like a fucking pig. I was NOT supersizing my meals. But sure, armchair dietitians on reddit know what's best for me, right?
It's ignorant people giving unscientific advice who make life a living hell for the rest of us.
"Cut the fats". Yeah, right.
I too have a love/hate relationship with sugar. I want it in my chocolates, NOT MY FUCKING GRANOLA ASSHOLES!!!
As a fat person, I never face that decision (well ok, not never, once or twice a year around the holidays maybe). Most of the time it's more like "should I throw away half of this meal I paid for or finish eating it?" That's a bit harder to do, especially when you were raised to clean your plate or you'd be physically punished. Conditioning is a bitch.
Why is your decision not: “I think I’ll save this for later?” I think your two options are severely flawed. You are going to be hungry before that food goes bad, save that shit for later 😋😋
I do when I can, but often it's not an option, like not going home or anywhere I have access to a refrigerator, or I'm on my motorcycle and no way to carry it...
All I read is excuses, be better than that. Take each day as a new day to begin making better choices and new good habits that work. I only say this because I was there, you got this, you just have to try and in addition to that not make an excuse when you hit a bump in the road. Fuck that, plough through, you’ll be fine. It’s not a temporary change, this is a permanent lifestyle change….or choose to do none of that and stay the way you are.
No I get it, I was over 300lbs last year, I'm now under that and slowly making progress, it just gets on my nerves when people have the attitude of "it's easy, just make the choice to eat less" like it's a one time thing, it's not, it's constant. It's like telling alcoholics "it's easy, just don't drink". I might even argue it's easier to quit drugs, because you can live without. I quit smoking years ago, it was a rough but it gets easier the longer you don't do it. I can't just stop eating cold turkey.
It's the obese who need to touch grass buddy. It's not that hard to maintain a healthy weight if you put any effort at all. Literally just looking at the calories of what you're consuming will cover it for almost everyone. If you actually exercise on top of that it's easy mode.
Bro it's not hard at all to stay skinny, regardless of what country you live in. All you gotta do is eat less often and work out more. It's that simple. Count calories for week if you need to, to establish a baseline for how much you should be eating.
That, or do what I did and get a job that requires physical labor. You'll get plenty of excersise, and you'll be too tired at the end of the day to eat. That's how I dropped 15 lbs in two weeks; got a warehouse job. After a 10 hour shift, all I want to do is go home and sleep.
Quit making up lame excuses. Nobody's buying it.
Obesity is a bodily state based on inputs and outputs
Greatly, greatly, influenced by genetics. I've known people, hell I've dated people, who ate better and worked out more than I did, but were still fat af. Meanwhile I just do a little jog and basically can eat whatever I want.
I'm not going to go and pretend I'm not fat because I've made smart choices.
Nah. It's more about inherenting eating habits than genes. Also it's much easier to gain weight if you've been obese during your youth. Eating is also an unhealthy coping mechanism for a lot of people. Genes is probably on fifth place if not lower.
I'm a fatass now, but up until my 30s I was skinny, underweight even. I eat less (and better) now than I did then, so obviously there's more to it.
Run 2 miles/day to receive a bonus of 130% my salary? That seems insanely good value and this is coming from someone who has run about a total of 2 miles since I left school.
Get the train to work and park just over a mile away, run to catch the train and go to work. After work run back to your car. Instant 130% salary increase
Unless you're disabled, elderly or otherwise unable to do this... Not to mention how is this tracked? I don't want MY employer knowing what I do or where I go in my free time.
Yes, of course there needs to be exceptions for those less able.
It’s tracked by a fitness app according to the article. Just turn off permissions once you’ve finished your run.
Ooo boy, time to fire up my GPS spoofer!
So people would need to disclose their medical information to their employer now too, and also hope that they not only keep it private, but consider it at all, with all... none of their medical knowledge? Oh, sorry, only disabled people, you know, so that they can qualify for whatever "exceptions" to this discriminatory bullshit the boss comes up with...
Only thing required is this to be made explicitly illegal.
In my company they gave you a fitbit type device. The deal wasn't as good. I think it was free HSA money or something.
Dystopia on top of dystopia. Need a special fund to not die when sick. Job makes you do extra. labor just to afford health care.
If someone wants to give me a nice Christmas present I'll wear 2 watches. ヾ(⌐■_■)ノ♪
It's because these employees needed these bonuses. They were essentially a normal part of their compensation. Now it's being held hostage.
It's the amount that get crazy, my work has some goodies/benefit for people who exercises, but it's like a free T shirt once in a while, a charity event where they give 1€ per kilometer to charity, and negotiated discount for some activities. But a 30% or even more bonus?
I know what to ask to HR
Michael Scott energy
Michael Scott's Dunder Mifflin Scranton Meredith Palmer Memorial Celebrity Rabies Awareness Pro-Am Fun Run Race For the Cure.
That episode even had Kevin insisting he doesn't want to run and Michael threatening to fire him.
Thanks for saving me the search.
Also, there was the one where they were testing their sprinting speed with the radar sign, and Michael claimed he was running at 30 mph because a car drove by while he was going.
100km/mo = 3.33km/day or A little over 2 miles a day.
Which sounds do-able if you're fit and healthy. But what if you're disabled or partially disabled?
Reality is you dont want to run every day. You can. But you should not for the sake of your joints.
Realistically this should be 6-8kms, 3-4 times a week.
Fast walking is about 90% of the benefits of running with 10% the injury potential (casual assessment)
If you can't do 2 miles a day you are nowhere even close to the realm of a healthy person. Like not even within a 100 miles of healthy
Or disabled. I found out yesterday I get to go back into a total contact cast for a foot deformity. :( I currently can't walk to the mailbox, forget about two miles.
You don't even need to be disabled to be unable to run or do heavy exercises. There are several conditions that can make running painful or impossible, like arthritis, athrosis, hernias, respiratory problems, etc.
Tying the bonuses to how fit you are is straight up evil. I highly doubt the boss will pay for medical expenses of people that push themselves too far to get the most money, who, ironically, might effectively end up losing that extra money.
Clearly nobody will find a way to cheat that, no siree!
This area has been pretty well explored by Pokemon Go players already. On Android there's an app called defit that has multiple options for adding fake exercise data to your Google fit account which is where Pokemon Go, and typically these insurance apps, pull their info from.
Walking is one of the fitness activities people that are not disabled can walk.
Some guy pushes himself too much, dies from a heart attack and they cancel the initiative
touches nose not it!
At one previous company where I worked I started a karate dojo, and I gave voluntarily classes. About 40% of the company regularly trained with me and we all got ripped, it was awesome
That's a great way to do it, not tie work bonuses to it.
One of my previous jobs did something similar to this only without reward and public shaming as the punishment. We were all cube workers forced to do army standard tests and training after work.
that is genuine hell, my god
ITT: I’m fat. I don’t wanna.
Also itt: when the employer says "run" you ask how much, you peasant, you should never question decisions of your master
ITT: I'm disabled. I'd like a bonus too, please.
"Sorry boss, I can't come to work today, I haven't met my monthly miles, gotta run 🏃♂️🏃♂️"
Man I would love this
I can't run because of a physical disability.
If I worked for this company I'd already be calling a lawyer, and I bet firms would be begging to take the case.
Lawyer: did you contact HR or attempt to request reasonable accommodation and were denied?
You: no, I just want money
Lawyer: how about you do your job instead of thinking you know how mine works and earn money that way. Get out.
Oh, please smartass, do tell us what reasonable accommodation could be made in this case, that isn't in itself discriminatory? (keeping in mind of course, that using a wheelchair, despite it probably being the only indication of disability you can think of, is only one in millions of variations of access needs) (edit: and of course lets not forget that forcing employees to disclose medical information is also illegal)
I won't hold my breath... 🙄
Should ask the employer instead of random internet folks.
Any other reasonable alternative agreed upon by both parties for the employee to do something that improves their health. Employee is not being forced to disclose any medical information. It's a voluntary program. If the employee chooses to go the ADA route, that's a willing choice.
Just face it that you don't understand how the legal system, ADA, or your own rights work.
You are entitled to reasonable accommodation upon your request, nothing more. The article mentioned a couple alternatives to running, indicating the company is willing to meet the specific needs of employees. The article may not have explicitly mentioned your specific needs, but that does not mean that the company would refuse reasonable accommodation.
The only thing that would happen from you calling your lawyer is you'd owe your lawyer money.
Yes, firms would be begging to take your case. On retainer. You'd be hard pressed to find one to take it on contingency.
Clearly they are trying to get their employees to be fitter and healthier but this seems a bit ham-fisted. I’m also betting that the real policy is more nuanced than portrayed here.
So... An ADA suit for discrimination waiting to happen then.. 🙄🤦♀️
Chinese company. No idea what disability discrimination laws they have in place, if any.
Fair (and I'd actually just come back to edit that I realise this isn't in the US), but the point still stands - this is blatant discrimination, no matter where it's happening..
For sure. I'd be first in line to complain if I worked there... assuming my mobility impairment didn't get in the way of that 😅
Lol, same.. 😬
ADA only requires "reasonable accommodation". A couple alternatives to running were presented, indicating the company is willing to cooperate with the specific needs of workers. That the article fails to mention any specific accommodations for handicapped workers does not mean that such accommodations won't be made.
A blanket policy covering all disabled employees is not ADA compliant. Accommodations are supposed to be made on a case-by-case basis, based on the specific needs of the specific employee. Without knowing the capabilities and needs of a specific employee, we cannot determine what would constitute a reasonable accommodation.
Yes, strictly applying this policy to disabled employees would be discriminatory, but there is precisely zero evidence suggesting that it will be applied that way.
If I could swim it, count me in (even miles, I try to swim about 1.5 miles every time I hit the gym, I could bump that to 2)
I have no idea but that sound like a ridiculous number of lengths, which is the only way I know how to measure swimming.
Maybe his employees are all marathoner.
Swimming is better for your joints
Leave it up to Lemmy users to paint paying employees to be healthy as a bad thing...
That's not paying to be healthy, it's withholding money until you dance their little dance, no matter the circumstances.
Not everyone should run, not everyone can run, but regardless, it's degrading and evil.
The best way to ensure people are happy is to remove stress from their lives. If you're employer, it means good working conditions and good pay, not hunger squid games
Okay so if they don't exercise, it's deducted from the compensation they've earned? I must have misunderstood.
Kinda seems like "canceled bonus" should have been in the headline...
There is also an option to read more than a headline
My time and attention is finite.
And yet you chose to waste it on skimming trough headlines and arguing in comments about shit you hadn't read. You don't seem to value it at all
Better than using it to give free views to articles with clickbait headlines.
Nope, not better at all. Worse, since you're getting l nothing useful from that, and on top of that you making the discourse worse with your uninformed comment
That's the author's fault, not mine.
Yeah, instead of just leaving their article as a merely words for you to ignore they should've come to your house and read it to you out loud until you get it. It's an easy mistake a lot of authors make, they have nobody but them to blame
Honestly, giving bonuses for employees having healthy habits seems fine. It's not like anyone is entitled to bonuses, they're not "withholding" bonuses or anything, they're just giving extra incentives to live well.
I'm disabled, if I worked at that company they would absolutely be withholding something from me, as well as plain old discriminating against me for my disability.
Fuck this hyper-capitalist ableist bullshit, and fuck cheering it on.
China is "hyper-capitalist"? 🤔
Yes.
Fuck that noise. I workout 5 days per week, either doing martial arts or lifting. I can't run because of a knee that got routered out from an infection. So, despite the fact that I'm far healthier than the slobs I work with, I get no bonus? Yeah, fuck that.
From the article. Although if being healthy is their goal then they better also provide free healthcare and yearly check up.
China, so healthcare is baked in.
It doesn't have to be specifically running, you could theoretically have a list of healthy activities/diet/etc and people can earn up to x% bonus by doing them, let people mix and match activities as their health/body allows. If someone can't do any of the activities due to health reasons exceptions could be made.
Or, you know, just pay your employees enough and give them enough time off and watch their fucking health skyrocket. This is not being done for the benefit of the employees.
Also, if you have to create exceptions for disabled people in your scheme, you are by definition excluding and discriminating against them.
The article states specifically running with specific distance milestones.
Yeah, I was just talking about the idea of providing incentives for healthy activities as a general concept.
Fuck employees with cancer or other medical conditions!
ITT: people who couldn't want a mile if they were PAID TO.
welcome to 2023, year of the obesity plague