5 Reminders NOT to Pre-Order Games This Year ~ We used to demand trials before buying before, what happened? ~ Stop Pre ordering Games

I think a lot of gamers just don't care enough too. I know so many people that buy a game on release, play it for a few hours, and then drop it. Even AAA titles that are actually good.

Steam achievements kinda confirm that as well, there is a fair bit of drop-off on even the most popular games.

It made some sense when they came in physical format and there was a real risk of a highly sought game selling out. Nowadays they have put worthless digital incentives on preorders and they can't possibly run out.

This right here. There will always be a steady supply of new gamers who don't know better.

I think it’s an age thing a lot of times.

I don't have numbers but I bet that a lot of people who preorder aren't kids but adults with a proper income. Kids as a group don't have the income to uphold the current presale figures, that's done by working adults who can afford to preorder a game and take the not so small risk that it's utterly shit.

If I want I could preoder a lot of games that come out this year without having to worry about the waste of money to much. I doubt that any regular kid can do that.

This isn't a kids thing, we've been pre-ordering games since before today's kids were born

I just saw this video the other day, now it’s just all reminders that I’ve aged out.

It’s funny when you get older how much you realize experience is what drives behavior. You can tell a child 100 times about something, but until they experience it themselves, your warnings more often than not will fall on deaf ears.

Hey it's Lemmy, so I will happily use this opportunity to blame rich people as well. I know people doing very well for themselves, who constantly, say, "yeah it sucks, but I've got the money and it doesn't hurt me so who cares?"

Because they're so completely unable to to think of ANYONE else in a different situation, or even remember their younger selves, that they will continue to incentivize predatory behavior because "fuck you, I got mine", and they're such huge pieces of self involved shit that they won't delay their gratification for a split second to help out an entire industry's consumers.

If that sound harsh, it's been a shit day full of people just like that; decide on your own if it applies here.

I second this. I did stop buying games as soon as possible when I had a child.It was like a 2 years gap in my life. I realised it was like living in a shifted timelapse :)

Now I only play 2 yo games, same for movies and series... It means I only keeps top quality stuff !

Its not my job to support the developers and keep their studios afloat its their job by making good games that are actually worth their price tag.

That’s fine and all, but it goes both ways. If you’re gonna wait years to maybe buy their game, then they’re not going to cater to what you want.

There’s a middle ground imo. If I love a certain type of game, I’m gonna buy it relatively new to show my support. If you don’t do that, then you’re essentially a bottom of the barrel afterthought that the market simply won’t cater to.

when I can buy complete version of the game for like 10-20 bucks 1-3 years later

...or, for like 1-3 bucks 10-20 years later.

Life is short, but not that short.

Yeah, I love Final Fantasy. But I wasn't very hyped for it. I bought it after I played the demo.

I bought it after the demo, and while it definitely hit those highs again, the demo didn't show just how low some of those lows would be. I made it about 60% though the game before abandoning it out boredom. While a demo is great, it is important to remember you're likely getting a vertical slice of some of the best bits.

The demo really made me want to get it and actually caused me to preorder. I wasn’t even that excited about it until the demo. Once I turned it on and heard the music that instantly transported me to final fantasy, I was sold. Wound up shelving Diablo until I finish the story for final fantasy. It’s long and I’ve loved every moment. The side quests, while being typically fetch quests, have great stories in them that really build on the world.

Sorry, this was supposed to be about preordering and turned into me gushing about final fantasy.

I was super happy for that demo. For me it let me know I wouldn't enjoy it, so I saved some money.

Eh.

On the flip side, back in the day, a lot of people bought a lot of crappy games based on nothing more than what the cover art on the box showed. The only source of info was video game magazines, and that applied only to new releases and only certain games.

Now upon release you can look up dozens of detailed reviews, even video reviews. You can watch full play through a on YouTube. You can ask for opinions in social media.

The amount of information you have to figure out if this game is for you is insane compared to before.

I miss the age of videogame demos

Fuck the corps. That's what piracy is for.

We may just have very different tastes in gaming, but there’s really no shortage of solid game demos out there, they’re just usually for the indie stuff.

for some reason indie games still seem to have demos semi-often, especially if you check their itch.io pages.

I miss the age of videogame demos, it feels like nothing but a distant memory now.

No it isn't! With Steam you can try most (if not every) game for 2h and return it if you didn't like it.

Steam's Next fest has brought back some demos on PC. You might not get a demo for a big IP, but you can try lots of smaller dev games without having to buy first.

I remember playing Destiny's Alpha version when I was invited to it. It was a fun experience but sucked when the game was mostly a let down for the first year or so.

Initially pre orders made sense back when physical media was the only way to get games. Nowadays though, you are absolutely right. Digital games have no right to cost around the price as a physical product (especially when even that physical product doesn't even have a cool manual and its just an empty plastic box with a disc in it).

Im not one to be too hung up on the cost of games. They have stayed relatively stagnant for years and have undoubtedly grown in complexity and with that, staffing requirements. I mean Halo: Combat Evolved was $50 dollars from release well into 2003 and this was before internet based multiplayer games on console were really all that common.

So given how much costs have increased for other items....A 70-80 dollar game isnt necessarily outrageous. Especially given the amount of time some will play said games. 200 is a different story.

Im also not against paid methods to skip a grind. Some people have time to do repetitive tasks in games and may even get joy out of it. Others dont have that kind of time, so a paid option isnt necessarily out of bounds for me. Personally I get an hour or so a night to play, whereas most kids can get 6-8 hours a DAY... But my time is worth money, much more so than a kid, so if it costs me another 20 bucks to skip 8-10 hours of grind and be on an equal playing field, im all for that.

I agree about the content never running out. I disagree that the content isn’t worth more though. The quality is definitely getting up there and the design teams are grilled while getting ripped off. The corruption of Capitalism has rotted your brain. it is your choice to take the DLC. It shouldn’t be your choice to piss on slave driven developers. not ok.

If demos hurt sales, that means that game devs depend on gamers buying games they don't actually end up liking right? I understand making games has become pricier and pricier, but if the whole business model is dependent on "We want to trick people into getting stuff they don't want", then we have a problem.

Companies 100% have a right to skip demos and sell pre-orders. And people have a right to boycott those.

I don't really understand how this is measured? I attempted to look up some research on it, but it seems most articles that say this are referencing one conference by Jesse Schnell who basically just correlated games with demos, sales, and expected sales. What measure is used to figure out if a demo causes someone to not buy the game? I suppose if they measured presales that were cancelled after a demo, but most anticipated games don't have demos anyway so the data is already skewed in the favor of "no demos." Does it take into account outliers like FFXVI? Highly anticipated game with a demo that sold very well...

I would venture to guess that the data is skewed because lots of AAA games don't have demos and lots of indie games that might not have been purchased anyways trying to get a little markershare, but there seems to be such little research on it.

If you have an actual study on the topic, I would be very interested in seeing their method of results.

So… Do not preorder?

Don't encourage devs to gate content behind pre order exclusives. Day 1 DLC used to be seen for what it was: content that should be in the base game.

Well yeah but half the fun of Bethesda games is their bugs lol

Yeah, the whole no pre-ordering thing is simply just a personal moral thing. Any amount of people who pledge not to are massively outnumbered by the vast majority of gamers who simply do not care. This simply doesn't matter anymore.

I also stopped trying. It's impossible to have a conversation with absolutely everyone that plays games to get them to stop pre-ordering.

Gamers are also some of the worst type of people (sorry, just being honest here). They generally have very little self control and it's almost impossible to get them to change their minds or change their habits.

I can only change my own behaviors and stop getting fucked by these AAA publishers. Once you realize that it's ok to wait a week or so to see if the game is good, life gets much better.

And games these days are digital copies. It’s not like the supply is limited.

If it allows you to pre-download it so you can play as soon as it's available it makes some sense.

The only situation I can think of where it makes sense is where you have the money now, and don't think you'll have the will power to not waste it before release day.

...which, if you're a teen/young person, I could totally see that being a legitimate concern.

Without any of the protections you get when you make an actual loan.

I'd say a 100% refund when requested with less than two hours of use within the first two weeks is a pretty good protection, and it's pretty much the standard policy on PC.

I would also guess the people doing preorders comparatively aren’t the ones who are the harshest critics of the game and are more likely to enjoy the experience.

The caveat being that this would not be true if the game is a buggy mess that isn’t uncommon on launch these days.

Most games are actually most expensive at launch. A year after release their prices tend to be half. If not, discounts and other promotionals will surely come your way.

which country do you live in?

DOS2 is such an insanely good game. BG3 is shaping up to be just as awesome.

Did you pre order or buy early access? Buying a game in early access when you believe what is currently in the game is a good deal for the price is the same thing as buying a released game in my opinion.

Had the early access on Stadia before that went under. So I guess I'm un-preordered now.

Nobody, not once, has said 'it is not your choice'. This always gets brought up like that's what the argument is. Make the stupid choice all you want. Be our guest. What we're saying is "if you pre-order this game, you have zero right to: complain about its content for ANY reason, bitch about release delays, or complain about the constant degradation in release quality of ALL games (because like it or not you're the reason why this happens)". Thing is you won't though will you? You'll be first to give a bad review saying 'I got early access and the quality is garbage!'.

Let me guess though, you'll be like "muh, my money, my right to complain about what I want" because taking responsibility for the inevitable consequences of ones actions is for people with actual impulse-control.

I was selling countless pre-orders at retail going back to 2001. I don't know when this mythical time would have been either.

Ultimately, the vast majority of people making pre-orders aren't here, on reddit, or any gaming community. And frankly, with the rate at which physical print runs are shrinking, people are going to find they will need to pre-order if they want a physical copy of anything not AAA.

Hey, fair enough. It is your money. If you see value, go for it. I have trouble seeing value because 9 times out of 10, preorder bonuses are like skins for mp or something else I care little about. But I just have a problem with data collection and selling it to 3rd parties.

Didn't you like spore? I thought it was awesome! Maybe because I was I kid when I played it though

My Copy of Alien: Colonial Marines would like to have a word with your copy of Spore.

Fallout76 is my reminder, it was an expensive lesson, but one that needed teaching.

They usually sell the pre-order stuff later anyways.

I’m not a youtuber, not a content creator. Just sharing this as a way to start discussion. And with your post, I think it achieves the intended purpose.

You added perfect examples of why we must not support these insidious business practices.

Fallout 76 is a bit different because it's a live service game, and it runs on an engine that was wildly contorted to make it usable in that form. That's presumably why it launched without NPCs and with all kinds of jank. Starfield, meanwhile, is Todd Howard's own passion project that he's dreamed about making for decades. I still expect a raft of bugs that will only ever be fixed by community modders, and it looks like the engine's reputation for poor framerates will continue, based on the Xbox 30 fps cap. But I don't think total cynicism is warranted. Yet.

The exception to this is GOG -- They, and publishers/developers that release on their store, should be supported whenever possible.

Not perfect, but miles above the alternatives.

I mean if anything Windows is super backward compatible. I would agree with the consoles....but windows? Yeah maybe Linux with proton works better nowadays for older games.... but I would not say a new version of Windows breaks your old games, there might be exceptions but it's not that common.

That’s a sad state of gaming. And I’m glad we have millions of game for emulation if that’s the case.

Factorio is pretty good, allows you to download any version of the game for any OS as many times as you want as long as you own the game (also allows downloading from site even if you bought from steam), doesn't need internet connection to run, the multiplayer is player hosted (exception is authentication and optional blocklists)

This take is up there with "you don't buy beer, you just rent it."

Steam is not the only game platform out there. Some would also prefer to buy direct to companies. Some games aren’t on steam. There are many reasons why it’s still reasonable to warn people NOT to preorder games, especially since there’s a trend of companies releasing broken, buggy games at launch.

CD Project RED used to be one of those studios that never miss, but then Cyberpunk happened. So it's never a true guarantee.

Early access is different tho...

Because you know what you're getting, others who already have it are able to post reviews.

A preorder is just giving them money early for zero reason.

For example, I knew I was getting BG3 no matter what. And I know I habitually restart act 1 of RPGs multiple times before picking what I want. So having a chance to run thru (a limited) act 1 a bunch over a year before release was worth it to me.

But there's no way I'd have just pre-ordered it, there'd be no reason to pay before I got the product.

Sorry forgot to mention. This is an early access option. Pay loads of money, get it earlier than everyone else

Nintendo may be shit sometimes, but for the rest of the time it's almost guaranteed quality

came here to say the same thing, lol. I imagine most other AAA games aren’t finished early enough before release to offer trials like that, though

To be honest, 2 hours is not enough to trial a game. I recall demos and trials in the old days can last 14 days, some for 30 days, if memory serves me right.

I heard that if you "overuse" it though, steam will lock you out of that feature. With cases of using it 10 times / month being seen as overuse. Not sure how real that is though, or if these 10 times were exception.

Other people have Xbox, PS, Nintendo…. Not to mention, 2 hours is not enough to trial a game

Your primary Switch shouldn't need to do that, and it also would have done it if you didn't get the DLC. It is dumb that it basically requires internet access for all your additional Switches to operate, and it actually promotes you marking your travel switch as the primary device while the actual primary device sits at home where you always have internet access.

In the mid to late 90s and the early 2000s. PC gaming magazines and PlayStation magazines used to give away demo discs for you to trial new games.

You’re taking it too literally. I meant demand as in trying it first for free BEFORE buying. Without trying it, how can we know if the game is good to play. Sorry for the miscommunication. English isn’t my first language

But... why? What benefit does it give you?

I was 99% sure totk was gonna be amazing but I still pirated that shit and gave it a test run... I obviously loved it and went out and purchased a copy... I'm so jaded with games even nintendo is not safe in my book

Preordering might not be so much of an issue with platforms that have solid return policies. Steam might be alone in that sphere. Regardless, preorders encourages companies to release buggy, unfinished products just to inflate their numbers. And even if this is not problematic in the short end, if all companies do this, even with return policies, it’s the user/gamers who suffer with a flood of inferior products.

What are the pros of per-ordering? I can't think of any other than promotional DLC that is normally worthless.

It's installed when I want to play it. Usually the counter I hear is that internet is fast enough where that isn't a problem. This is an argument, that gamers use to contend when the idea of online only was considered by Microsoft. The fact that I can preinstall 100GB of data beforehand at my leisure is worth it.

Especially now considering that steam offers free refunds up to 2 hours of gametime or 15 days after release? Realistically on PC there is very little reason to argue against it at this point in my opinion (obviously this is referring to PC, no need to do that for Consoles that don't provide these opportunities.

This isn't really a pro preorder, I just lost my frustrations with it when the risk was mitigated

People mostly pre-order for the add ons they put in. It's not uncommon for pre-orders to get beta access, or early access. Sometimes they get even greedier and tie that into the next tier up so you'll pay $80-100 for the game. People don't like to wait/get hit with fomo when they see everyone playing the game already.

I'm sure it varies from person to person, but as far as I can tell it's some combination of FOMO, peer pressure, and virtual dick measuring

Making a good demo before a game is released can take away developer time from getting useful work done before release. But after its been released, the time pressure should be off and they could do a nice demo for more marketing.

Same here, but we got to get a demo of the game essentially. So excited for it to release.

That's a defeatist attitude. There are a lot more of us then you can fathom. If you're going to make assumptions on data you don't have, why not have hope?

While following the advice of not pre-ordering games may not change or save the industry it can still save you a lot of money and time.

The last pre-order bonus I got was a pair of socks. That killed my interest in extraneous offers.

I used to do that when I was about ten years younger, now I am mostly trying to get rid of them to save some space as all they do is collect dust on some shelf or box.

In what way did they do a "complete overhaul"? I played on PC when it came out and had fewer issues than plenty of other AAA releases in the last few years.

Are you upset about bugs or not getting what you expected?

If it's bugs then I'll assume either that you played it on hardware that it shouldn't have been released on, or you scream about nearly every game you play.

If it was not getting what you expected I'd suggest you disconnect from hype trains. We older gamers learned that lesson long ago when commercials only showed fmv sequences and actual game play was well below.

If I had it to do over again I'd buy CP2077 over Fallout 4 without a second thought, but no one is still whining at Bethesda over that.

Emphasis on the "enjoyed the demo" here! You can safely buy a game if you can play the demo without troubles - it's extremely rare to see a game become worse between demo and release, unless it's to add Denuvo.

It's the job of marketing to convince you to spend money on things you don't need. There is no benefit to preordering. They have proven this to us time and time again, with so many new examples just this past year alone.

Stop feeding the machine. Be a patient gamer.

And the cycle begins anew

I agree but there is no benefit of preording the game. Wait the release date, buy it, try it for 2 hours, then refund it / keep it.

As a big Cities:Skylines fan, following the dev diaries, I'm with you. I'm having a tough time resisting the urge to preorder.

Cities Skylines 2 is the 1st game i ever preordered.

I figured CS1 is one of my most played games & i was gonna buy CS2 when it launched anyway, so why not do it now? By doing so now, its 1 less thing taking up space in my mind & theres really Nothing to lose with steams refund policy.

The incredible transparency they have been providing via the dev diaries + the fact that they hired a bunch of the top modders from CS1 to help develop the game is what got me to pull the trigger.

What is the main motivation for that though? Being able to play the games a couple of days earlier?

After Control's success it shouldn't be too surprising, im looking forward to it but probably won't play until a year or two after release, im still playing control and Quantum Break is on my to-play list.

My cousins who are in their late 20s probably spend more time watching playthroughs than playing the games themselves. I think part of it is they simply can't afford to buy all the games they want to play. Another part is some games are just a good story that can actually be viewed and experienced through a playthrough.

Personally, if the game is easily available to me, I'd prefer to just play it.

But isn't the deluxe edition just the base game + battle pass + plat? Kind of contradicts your second sentence. I bought the base game, and am still confused what all the options are/were. But reading over it all again since the first season drops in nine days, I think a battle* pass is a bunch of cosmetic shit, store credits, and a 20 level boost. Supposedly all stuff that can be ground for in the season (after having bought the base game, of course),