Healthcare can't be left to the free market. Simply because the demand part of the market isn't free.
My country screens like 10% of total (mostly) boob-havers per year for free (the number would heve been higher if more ppl decided to get tested). So basically everyone is invited, with mobile test units (just big containers/trucks) roaming around the country for the elderly, or for a bit more remote villages, or just to spread awareness & make someone get screened out of convenience.
Since September my wife has had about ten CTs, three MRIs, two major surgeries (the last one 7 hours long), one emergency surgery, weeks of chemotherapy and radiation treatments and about 8 weeks hospitalised including some time in the ICU.
Total cost: $0
Unless you count the cost of parking when I visit her in hospital, in which case I’ve spent about $170 USD
This is in New Zealand with a publicly funded health system.
In Canada and something similar. My aunt got breast cancer and my mum has since been diagnosed with leukemia. Of all the stresses they have dealt with, money has never been one of the things.
It's absolutely cruel that we would do that to a human being in such a tough time. Why any nation would prioritize profit over someone's well being is beyond me.
That said, Canada isn't perfect either my son is diabetic and we still have a lot of profit inducing flaws. It's just when you compare them with "the greatest country in the world"... Well nothing really compares.
Edit - changed pancreatic cancer to leukemia. No idea why my brain wasn't working this morning. Point being fuck the BRCA2 mutation.
My wife's experience and costs were about the same for similar breast cancer treatment in Canada.
Our parking fees are a bit more expensive...
Man what the hell is your wife going through...
A cancer diagnosis and complications from chemotherapy. It’s been rough on her but she’s an absolute trooper.
First of all, I am glad you do not have breast cancer.
In the Netherlands...Every year or two a buss comes to our village where one can get tested for breast cancer.for free.
Please tell me, it's the Brabant Breast Bus. If not, your country has failed.
Close.
It is the Borstenbus, which translates to Breast Bus.
But it is all over the Netherlands, not only in Brabant. So it couldn't be called that.
Shame. Three legged alliterations are objectively superior.
On the bright side, I now know that the Dutch use the same word for breasts we Germans use for bristles.
Bristly breasts
Land of the fee.
In Sweden there is no cost for this whatsoever. Most things are free or have tiny bills. I'm not saying it to make you feel worse, just pointing out that America is bordering on not being a civilized country anymore.
As a bonus, we don't have any Musks here.
Land of the fee
Hhh. Nice.
just pointing out that America is bordering on not being a civilized country anymore.
Looking across Pacific Bathtub USSA seems to be shitshow in every aspect of life. Meanwhile about EU I mostly say "EU, I belive in you!"
As a bonus, we don't have any Musks here.
We do, but we call them Rogozins.
As a bonus, we don't have any Musks here.
Don't we? The "IF Metall" union would probably tell you otherwise
I mean, who are we talking about? I admit I don't follow news much but which Swedish guy is rich like Musk? I know we have wealthy bank families and so on of course, or Axfood etc.
Fisk is talking about the Musk. He's there, trying to eat your labor rights.
Ah yes. But he didn't succeed. :)
That's great! I haven't been keeping up with the news on that. What was the outcome?
I haven't followed it but it's hilarious to read about:
unions across Sweden banding together against the carmaker, blocking imports at ports and refusing to repair damaged Tesla chargers, among other actions.
Postal workers have stopped delivering mail to the company, including license plates. A local court of appeal also overturned Tesla's attempts to have license plates directly delivered from the Swedish Transport Agency.
unions in Norway, Denmark, and Finland have now said they're also ready to stop unloading cars from ships, according to the Financial Times.
Respectfully, punching down does nothing but make people who are suffering feel worse. Posting here about how much better you have it than us isn’t helpful. We already know how messed up it is here.
Yeah I know. It's just such a contrast between how the country markets itself VS reality. We have almost exclusively American and British TV here and it really is quite a shock when you see what the country actually is.
But if there is a world war, we will appriciate support from the US of course. One thing they are awesome at is armies and weapons.
One thing they are awesome at is armies and weapons.
You say that, but we couldn't defeat a bunch of horse-riding semi-nomads with Kalashnikovs after 20 years in Afghanistan.
No but the US has always been bad at guerilla warfare. Same in Vietnam. Whatever nomads the US are fighting at the time are using intelligence rather than raw military power, and it's the only way to fight a more powerful force.
Do you know that though? Because the internet is flooded by Americans defending their shitty system.
For those unaware how Health Insurance works in the states.
You can have health insurance all you want. Especially if this bill is recent, they will cover a large part of the cost, but most people are still on the hook for Usually between $1000-1500 of all healthcare before insurance REALLY kicks in. This is called the Deductible (and Out of Pocket) expense. You also pay a 'Premium', essentially a subscription cost that normally comes directly out of your paycheck.
For single coverage, just yourself, it's about $1200. For family coverage, where your insurance covers everyone in your house, It's usually double that. So ~$2,500-3,000.
So this person probably hasn't had any bills yet this year. Once they pay about $1500 in costs, everything after that becomes (mostly) free. Depending on what you have, insurance will pay anywhere from only 80% - 100% of the cost from whatever the procedures and meds are.
Then funny part is that some places in America the cost is so high, this might be a situation where their insurance DID kick in already and their insurance is still making them pay that much. Or it's a case where you get a bill for that much but your insurance hasn't paid it yet... so it looks like you're supposed to... so you do... then two months later you get a check for that amount.
It's so. Damn. Silly. And I resent Republicans every day for it. That's not even the Fascist MAGA Theocracy republicans. Just your stock standard ones lmfao.
$1000-$1500...?
Most people are on high deductible plans, so it's more like $3000-$5000
Most
That could be true, but do you have a source for that? A significant portion of people are on Medicare/Medicaid, which usually doesn't have deductibles that high.
i can't give you a source for "most people," but personally my out-of-pocket is $6k for myself, $12k for my family. about the only thing covered before that number is met is yearly physicals. i pay about $500 a month for this (after my employer's contribution). dental separate, no vision.
I really don't understand why there is anyone against universal health insurance in the states.
Pretty much everyone is guaranteed to get major hospital bills at some point in their life. They are paying massive fees to insurance companies to line their pockets instead of hospitals to provide better service.
Sure, taxes will go up a bit to cover it, but what you'll pay in taxes over your lifetime is going to be no where near what you pay in insurance and healthcare procedures.
I pay $0 annually for insurance, and I can walk in to see my doctor at any moment to consult on something for $0, and if something needs to happen I can get blood work and X-rays for $0, then go to the hospital for surgery for $0 (maybe a $5 parking pass).
So if I had insurance like that and I actually had cancer I'd pay the first $2,000 and then literally all treatment after that would be free regardless of cost and then I just pay like the standard insurance price?
Presumably your insurance would then go up after that or does it only go up for other cancer related stuff?
well it depends.
for major surgeries, no. after you satisfy your deductible, you're likely to pay a co-insurance on your procedure.
co-insurance is the percentage you're personally responsible.
so lets say your procedure is billed by hospital for 50,000.
and your co-insurance is 20%.
you would be paying 20% of the 48000, so 9600.
up to your "out of pocket maximum", which can be like 15000 to 30000 or whatever.
if you've already paid like 10k already this year then you would just be paying up to 5k for ur cancer treatment.
confusing? yes. fuck health insurance so much.
No the treatment would not be free, most plans will also only cover a certain percentage of the overall procedure so on top of your annual deductible which mine for example is 7,500, there's also certain procedures that are not covered at all and the rest of the procedures are at a 70-85% coverage, which is still better than them not covering anything I guess but still pretty dog shit for an insurance that you're paying over $100 a month that's tied to your employer
It's pretty confusing, but basically your insurance won't cover much until you meet your deductible for the year. After that, your coverage depends on the policies of your insurance company. Some stuff may be totally covered, some partially, some not at all. And there's really no way to know what costs what until you get it done.
This is the part that drives me bats. For any other service in any other industry you can get a quote first, but for some fucked up reason healthcare in America doesn't work that way. The hospitals and insurance companies just do whatever the fuck they want, and you get to find out afterwards if you could have afforded it, i.e. after it's too late. It's such bullshit.
Indeed, I hate it when people are like "you shouldn't pay that much, you need to shop around". Assuming you even have multiple hospitals to choose from, tell me you don't get "I don't know" 9/10 times when you ask about the cost of a procedure.
you can absolutely ask the hospital for a good faith estimation.
You should also hate Joe Lieberman. He scuttled a public option for the ACA, which likely would have prevented a lot of the shenanigans insurance companies pull, as they would be competed right the fuck out of business with a robust public option. Japan has private and public insurance and costs are generally low for health care. Most kids get it completely free
IDK about how Japanese insurance works, but of course they will want kids' healthcare free. If not then their already dropping population would drop even faster.
Those amounts you mention. The 1200-3000 dollar ones. Call me silly, but I have no clue if that’s monthly or annually. The whole situation there seems so alien. Healthcare, but also salaries and cost of living. (E.g., $45k/year is a pretty good salary here, while I think it is a junior-ish salary in the states, right? >$100k/year is rare as rocking horse shit here at least.)
I'm supposed to have a colonoscopy because of my celiac
This is why I don't
Goddamn... as a fellow celiac sufferer, I'm very sorry to hear that. If the blood tests are pretty conclusive, you can probably assume it's celiac without the colonoscopy. The downside is that if you start a gluten-free diet now and decide to get a colonoscopy later, it might now show anything since you're off the gluten. Best of luck!
Oh I've had the diagnosis for a few years, and I've totally adhered to the dietary restrictions I was given. If I so much as question whether cross contamination may have taken place, I don't eat the food.
I'm pretty well stable now and no longer shitting myself. But I know I'm at greater risk of things like colon cancer, which is something that my family has a history of.
My insurance would "cover" it in that it would go towards my deductible, but that's still thousands of dollars, and we had to buy a furnace this year because ours died. I'm thinking about going and having it done in Mexico. I have in-laws there.
Edit: They did more than just blood tests. I'm not going to post all my lab results here obviously, but I can tell you I took shit samples there more than once, and amid all these tests all I could think about was the cost.
My wife has a chronic illness with expensive drugs.
Healthcare is around 35% of our families gross income when you include in the cost my employer pays, what I pay, plus deductable and copays.
I avoid going to the Dr as much as possible because I have a separate deductible. If I went for everything I should it would be closer to 40% of our gross income.
That country is fucked up. You people really have to come together and demand universal healthcare, as impossible as that sounds.
We elected Obama on that promise and our reward was the current system 🫠
Obama improved a lot through Obamacare, but it's really hard to get a good system in the USA as a lot of people are strongly against free and universal health care, even though it'd likely decrease the amount they have to pay for their own health care too. I really don't understand it.
Oh, it's very easy to understand. They're worried their tax dollars might help someone who "doesn't deserve it", so they'd rather not help anyone.
I broadly agree with that, it’s better from the former system in the way that walking on glass is better than being on fire.
As with a large portion of our fucked up politics, the answer for why people are like this here IMO goes back to conservative talk radio post-Fairness Doctrine. For people who haven’t lived in the rural US, especially before satellite radio, I can’t emphasize enough how much the massive amounts of extreme conservative talk radio shows impact the stuff you hear every day. When the majority of Americans never travel abroad to see otherwise it’s easy to just accept the conservative propaganda that you half listen to for hours a day, every day, for decades.
it’s better from the former system in the way that walking on glass is better than being on fire
Unless you were unemployed or extremely poor, in which case there's no difference
How much that’s true is going to depend greatly on whether or not you live in a state that expanded Medicare. For my home red state, it’s basically the same as it was pre-ACA if you’re poor. Go pound sand, more or less. But in the blue state I live in now the Medicare expansion helps a lot of people. Definitely much less dire than pre-ACA, but still a lot wrong with it.
But since the electoral college is controlled by the most unhinged and out of touch voters in the least educated states in the nation, sucks for us I guess.
Go pound sand
Pounding sand isn't enough anymore. We need heads to roll.
Out of curiosity, why are they doing a colonoscopy rather than a gastroscopy for Coeliac confirmation? The disease affects only the small intestine, and so an upper small intestinal biopsy is sufficient and doesn’t require uncomfortable fasting/dietary practice before the procedure, and is a cheaper, quicker and safer procedure.
My confirmation was blood test and then gastroscopy - after the biopsy it was confirmed.
They did some labs and gave me my diagnosis. The way it was explained to me was that they wanted the colonoscopy to check for things like scarring and so forth.
To be clear, I'm not a medical professional, so my attempting to answer "Why would they..." is pretty fruitless. I have no idea; that's why I was seeing my doctor lol
Ahh okay, so it’s not confirmatory for the diagnosis but rather assessing the impact of living with Coeliac? That makes sense. I’m having a full endoscopy/colonoscopy later this year for a similar purpose. Fingers crossed everything comes up clear for you mate!
Honestly I could be remembering wrong. This was 2020 and 2021, and I haven't been back to the clinic since December 2021 when they charged me $200 out of pocket for just an office visit. My whole point posting that comment isn't that I have celiac, but rather that I can't afford this shit.
Go, get your healthcare, ignore the bills.
I'd rather die than have collections on my ass again
7 years later, it’s irrelevant
What do you mean by this? They just erase your debt after 7 years? Are you sure?
Yeah after 7 years it falls off your credit report.
On top of that, most major credit bureaus don’t even calculate small medical debts(less than 1k I think) under $500 against your credit score.
Notably it falls off your credit report 7 years after the delinquency date- meaning whenever it was originally due, not when it was sent to the credit agencies and not when it went to collections.
Medical collection debt with an initial reported balance under $500 and paid medical collection debt no longer appears on credit reports.
I wish I would have known this when I thought my life was over after having appendicitis the one year of my life I couldn't afford insurance. Thanks for letting me know. I'll keep it in mind.
I've got to say there's no way my debt would ever be less than $1k though. I'm pretty sure my deductible is $5k, but I've also given up on the whole credit score thing. I always get emails that it's dropped or whatever, and I'm just numb to it at this point it's just background noise
I edited my reply above with some sources.
The credit score system is bullshit, but it can be played. I opened like 13 credit accounts in my early 20s and keep them rotated, because of that my total line of credit is ridiculous. I don't use it all very much, but on paper it makes my credit utilization look like 1-2% of my total limit, which raises my score significantly.
So those sources say it doesn't stay on your credit report, but I'm not really concerned about that. My credit score is consistently dogshit, and I've given up on it. I don't really care about my credit score at all.
What I'm concerned about are legal issues, wage garnishment, and other things that would directly affect me and harm me. If I just don't pay, wouldn't they seek legal action against me? I'm almost certain they would, and I'm pretty sure that doesn't change after 7 years.
Edit: I think I misread your comment. I see now that it does say "credit report." For some reason, I misread that and thought you were saying the debt just disappears. So really, that wouldn't help me much at all. I still need to be terrified of going to the doctor. One expensive trip could ruin my life.
America is well overdue for a revolution.
the idea of a revolution is dead. there's no way people are going to keep their digital limb aside for a moment to think that they are getting scammed by corporations everyday.
we're frogs in the boiling water
The "frogs in water slowly brought to a boil" meme is totally false. The frogs jump out when the water gets too hot for them, which is long before it's boiling. Just saying ;)
thank you for the heads up, dark grey colour(or is f4 some musical note?).
All I can say is that there was once some site where I had great difficulty finding a valid username that wasn't already taken, and this name worked.
Oh, but we have the best healthcare system in the world (which is why I'm thousands in medical debt despite having good insurance with no sign of a diagnosis or treatment) and you have super long wait times in other countries (which is why I had to wait almost a year to get a new neurologist when my old one retired).
But hey, we keep the health insurance industry making money for its shareholders, so there's that.
My wife and I have 'the best insurance in the city" we've been told by practitioners. Standard bloodwork costs me several hundred dollars.
*Best for them :p
Honestly do not mean this as a troll, but each and every one of us should call our house representative and let them know that we would appreciate more assistance from them when it comes to how much we have to pay for our out of cost expenses.
FYI, that double link as one link isn't working right for me.
It throws up a harsh pop up with a close button that doesn't actually work when you try to close it, and the formatting was all off.
I had to strip off the http one, and keep just the https one.
I'm not sure why it didn't work, but 12ft.io is used to beat paywalls.
I’m not sure why it didn’t work, but 12ft.io is used to beat paywalls.
Yeah I looked it up, so saw it was legit/its purpose.
For what it's worth it I was using DuckDuckGo browser on Android.
I had shitty insurance when I worked for a major retailer, and I had to go to the ER.
My copay was $300 plus 40% of the bill.
Turned out uninsured people making under $100,000 a year got a 90% discount at that hospital, so it was actually more than 4x the cost because I was insured.
Don’t protect the major retailer. Who screwed you
I've shared enough specifics about my various careers on here that saying exactly who I worked for at different periods of my life can really narrow down my identity.
That is beyond fucked
Might be cheaper to buy the equipment at that point.
But seriously: That is not at all what the insurance pays. Prices are ridiculously inflated to give ridiculous discounts to greedy companies. Patients and Doctors get the short end of the stick.
The insurance didn't pay anything at all.
They negotiated the rate down massively, and then required me to pay 40% of the sticker price, so they get away paying nothing despite getting 500 a month in premiums between me and my employer.
I've got to be honest, as a fellow American with chronic health problems, that seems dirt cheap for a diagnosis.
Anything above zero for cancer checkups seems way too high for me, from Spain.
Don't disagree, but it's not a bad price if you're an American stuck with our shitty, exploitative system.
But they're very important, so people are more likely to pay for them. America! Lol
You still are paying for it but its taxes I stead of insurance
The problem is that Americans pay both taxes and these outrageous rates for medical. People throw around the oh it's just in your taxes as if Americans don't also pay taxes. Ours just get wasted on useless fucking defense contracts
That's why it's cheaper though, and why you also don't go broke if you're poor and have health issues.
Per capita, American spends more on healthcare than any other country in the world, and that's including all the people that leave things untreated because they can't afford treatment. It's not more expensive because the care is necessarily better than other countries; it's more expensive mostly because of a lot of overheads in the US system. Paying for basic health care as part of taxes usually also means that it's a single-payer system, meaning the government negotiates pricing for the entire country, rather than having lots of insurance companies that each do that separately (usually including a healthy profit margin for themselves). That's one reason why medicines are so much cheaper in other countries.
I pay less taxes than the average American, therefore my healthcare is free for me in comparison. I also don't pay for private insurance either.
As a Canadian it's horrifying.
Ex wife was denied a mammogram due to having too many, according to her insurance company. Cancer runs in her family and doctors have discovered lumps they want to keep an eye on.
Honestly that's kind of on you for having breasts
Yeah, a knife is only like 5€
Mom died of breast cancer. On my bd last month.
She felt a lump, didn't get it checked, figured it was a bit of fake titty that broke loose. Would have cost too much to get looked at.
Found she had breast cancer. Her chemo stent got infected, wanted to wait until Monday to have it seen. Would have cost too much.
Husband drove her 2-hours through 14° weather, snow and mountains and all, to the ER. Dead within 24 hours.
But hey! Another dead conservative Boomer! Win?
There's absolutely no win there. I have a similar experience just before COVID, and the only saving grace was all his treatment - and the cost when he chose plan B - were both readily available and both cost-free.
It's unmitigated cruelty that you need to grieve while dealing with that healthcare system; and second-guess with the what-if thoughts as well.
We tell the stories of the people we lost in COVID, and it helps to laugh together, and I hope you have a similar outlet to make room for some peace eventually.
Human to human: I am so, so sorry for your loss and hope you are able to accept it and eventually still live your life to its fullest. I imagine that's what she would have wanted. Nothing else I say should diminish that.
[She] didn't get it checked, figured it was a bit of fake titty that broke loose.
What does this mean!? I don't have breasts, so I have no personal experience but is it common for parts of them to break loose??
Another dead conservative Boomer! Win?
I'm sure you're hurting, but this is a lot of projection. Did anyone actually say this (either online or in-person)!? If so, they are a bad person, no matter their political affiliation or beliefs and you should stay away from them...
I'm assuming she had breast implants and she thought one of them ruptured. It happens and isn't life threatening.
I'm sorry that it wasn't the case though.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, but shit like this is what prevents people from taking preventative measures.
Can confirm. Had my mammogram last month and they recommended an ultrasound because my breast tissue is dense. I've had it once before with no problems, but my husband's company switched insurance providers and it kicked in January 1, so now the lab where I normally go isn't in-network and every lab that is in their network wants to charge me hundreds of dollars. This is with good insurance. (My husband always picks the most expensive insurance package because we're getting older.)
Money is a little tight right now because I'm in between jobs, so at this point I've given up. I'll look into it again when I'm employed again but it's just not affordable at the moment.
Its purposeful. It's done this way so that there are legal ways of justifying the death of millions per year as they are deemed unprofitable.
Congrats tho. Just lost a friend to breast cancer that was suspected years ago but not confirmed until december. Seriously, congrats.
I'm having a tooth extraction at an oral surgeon later this month and I just found out I'm paying $450 for it. If there's a complication it'll be $1100. I also have insurance.
I think this is one those situations where "I did all that for nothing" is way better outcome
Sometimes it feels like you should get something for all that money. Like maybe just a little bit cancer, to make the tests feel worth it.
This is sarcasm, obviously.
I feel like you are missing the point of OPs post. I think OP is complaining about the price.
I mean yeah by all means that amount is ridiculous and not acceptable in any level
I'm so used to it, I was expecting more. "that's it?" - i thought to myself, in this boring dystopia.
Could be worse. You could have paid that to find out you do have breast cancer...
Wtf, as a Canadian who had a breast reduction and a revision for free this sort of thing seems like a nightmare to me.
Everything in this fucking country is a giant predatory scheme.
Sometime last year I felt some lumps in my scrotum. worried it could be a sign of balls cancer, I went and had them checked. I have probably better health insurance than most people i know. Cost about the same. Outrageous. but hey, turns out i don't have balls cancer so i guess it could be worse.
It could also be better. I don't think that there is any Western industrial nation outside the US, where this wouldn't be fully covered by your statutory insurance.
Well, good for you. Some people do have ball cancer and don’t have $644 to confirm it.
It sucks. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
And there’s a lot of people who have to live with ball cancer because even if they could afford to confirm it, they couldn’t afford to treat it. And that’s a decision people make every damn day.
Hell, I have a well-paying job and decent insurance and I still have to decide when my kids cough is bad enough to merit a sick visit to his pedi knowing that it’ll cost $250.
One of my kids had an ear infection right before his annual well visit (which is covered). They did his hearing screening as part of the well visit and it was covered, but he failed due to sinus congestion left over from the cold.
So we came back for a re-test. Still congested, still failed. Come back again in a couple weeks.
Couple weeks later we come back and he passes.
Few more weeks later we received bills for $250 for each of the followup hearing tests.
The whole system is fucked.
My youngest child needs speech therapy because he's nonverbal and should be stringing full sentences together by now. Speech therapy is entirely coinsurance based so I have to pay $95/appt until I reach the $2000 deductible then I'll be paying ~$20/appt
These appointments are biweekly and started in November. I had a long conversation with both insurance and the therapy office to clarify my options. I found out the therapy office charges only $65/appt if you don't go through insurance, reduced the appointments to weekly, while reducing all other spending I could to stretch it out, then come end of the year (open enrollment) I maxed out the flexible spending account at $3k for the year and verified the new year didnt drastically change the insurance coverage. I still had to lean on wealthier family to help me pay for everything but pretty soon we should hit the deductible and it'll (hopefully) be smooth sailing from there.
I'm also thinking I should setup a HSA and toss some of the tax return in there when that arrives as another line of defence. My wife tends to treat our checking account as the "available budget" so I've taken to shuffling money into various other accounts as that's far easier than fighting to get her to manage money better
Preface, I am not an accountant. This is my perspective and you’re welcome to take the advice or not.
The benefit to HSA is that it’s funded with pre-tax money (same as FSA, but HSA rolls over year to year and usually balance over a certain amount is able to be invested into some mutuals/etfs).
Big benefit of FSAs is that they are pre-funded at the start of the year with pre-tax fake money. So that’s there for you for the whole year (just make sure it’s all used up by the end). Think of it as a 0% line-of-credit that is secured by your salary/job, resets every year, and is paid automatically by pre-tax dollars.
I don’t think you’d be coming out putting your tax refund into an HSA, unless you are counting the post-tax deposit towards this years tax burden. And if you are claiming standard deduction, it may not even give you very much of anything.
If you can float the cash, better to put your refund in a 1yr CD or something. Even into a HYSA, you’d probably come out ahead over an HSA.
Keep in mind you can only contribute to an HSA if you have a HDHP. If you don’t have an HDHP, it’s not an option.
Keep in mind you can only contribute to an HSA if you have a HDHP. If you don’t have an HDHP, it’s not an option.
Forgot about this part. I just saw it was an option through my bank and thought it might be a good idea. If the bank one does require being tied to an insurance account then that won't work since my insurance has too low of a deductible to let me get an HSA
HSA only has four requirements for eligibility, but three of them are “you are covered by an HDHP, no other insurance, and not medicare”
If pre-tax savings is what you’re looking for, FSA is it.
Also if you do day camp or preschool for your kid, there is also DCFSA. They can pay for certain dependent care expenses with pre-tax savings…daycamp, after/before school care, and preschool, are some of the big ones for kids.
Hey! I did this same thing! Also cost about 6 or 700
I thought a yearly mammogram was always covered with insurance after the ACA was passed? Or maybe that's only after a certain age?
An annual screening mammogram is automatically covered. If it's a "diagnostic" mammogram following up some specific issue or complaint, then it would then fall into whatever normal policy rules you have with your insurance company for imaging tests. That's more likely the case here since this person had to go on to have an ultrasound as well.
If you have insurance but get billed for an annual screening mammogram, it's possible it was coded improperly by billers and you should definitely check up on that before paying.
Makes sense. But also sad that's the way Americans have to live.
It's only after like 35 or something, iirc
i got charged a few thousand (i think $3000?) for a regular ass MRI in Georgia. in italy the same thing would cost like €200-300 at most, probably less
Honestly not even surprising anymore :(
My getting established visit with the doctor cost me $430 last month...
That's just a visit to get started and nothing of significance was actually discussed.
Don't worry, every month we pay $1k for the pleasure of paying retail price on prescriptions until we hit our deductible. Only 9k to go!
Yeah it sucks. If it's coded as "screening" it's covered. As a tip - my GYN says she can see as much in the 3d mammogram as she can with the regular plus ultrasound and that one she can code as screening and it costs about $25 as an add-on.
Did they charge you $64.77 for the cup some water came in, and $78.12 for the water itself?
And how much are you paying for your health insurance?
About $300 per month. That doesn’t include vision and dental.
Damn. So if this is the only thing you did related to healthcare in the past year it really cost $1850.
I just paid over $2000 to find out I don't have throat cancer. Also have insurance. That's just the cost of a 5 minute laryngoscopy and a 10 minute CT scan.
You can get charged thousands just for showing up an an ER, seeing no one but the receptionist, receiving no treatment whatsoever, and leaving in exasperation after a multiple hour wait without any sign of anyone having any intention of administering to you in the slightest. I've seen it happen personally. America!
Yeah luckily that is free over here. Every few years, and always if a doc orders it.
Empire aka "The Land of the Free" "sarcasm"
You can't just drop that without details. Plan name. State. Monthly premium. Obamacare subsidy or no.
Yeah, I wonder, too. I've done the same for $15 copay through Kaiser (individual, marketplace) and Blue cross (employer).
I'm forever grateful to have been on Kaiser my entire life, and that all my employers have had it as an option.
It's expensive up front (~$5k per year, my employer covers it thankfully) but the most I'll ever pay per year out of pocket is $1500. Office visit/urgent care is $10, ER is $100 and waived if you're admitted, prescriptions are $20, and the most expensive surgery I could get is $150 which includes the hospital stay if needed. My partner got sterilized for like $35. The biggest thing for me is my therapy is free so long as it is virtual (my therapist is 4 hours away by car anyway), and $10 for an in person visit if I make the hike.
It's absolutely wild how much one's experience can vary with the healthcare system in the US based on their insurer alone.
I had a $3000 bill for something similar and let it go to collections 2 years ago. I'm not fucking paying that. I just keep contesting the charges and it hasn't yet hit my credit. I imagine it will catch up with me eventually though.
Mammograms are one of the few things in my country that's completely free. You need to pay at least a little for almost all other healthcare.
I guess it's a good investment to have peace of mind! /s
Ignore it. Throw it away. They already billed your insurance ten times that much, they made their money .
That's a good way to get the bill sent to collections and have debt collectors ruin your credit score. Real life isn't as simple as just ignoring your bills.
Credit is an unnecessary yoke of capitalism
I have never seen charges like this for breast imaging under insurance before. Something is wrong, either billing or the insurance. The only way I can see this if the imaging was ordered without a proper reason...but likely not.
You seem oblivious to the realities of most insurance plans in the US.
The part I think most Americans don't realize it's this:
In Canada, when I don't feel well, I go get it looked at. I barely need ID (and when I broke my arm I forgot it at home). I don't need to provide proof of insurance or a visa card, butnindomhave a medical number for records segregation.
My point is, healthcare in Canada at its current and worst post-covid state, is still a "here is my body please fix it KThx" setup, and it's comically more easy than the in-network/out-network who-bills-whom and how-will-you-be-paying mess that is America; and comically more easy while Americans don't realize it that I get stressed just remembering it from when I was there.
You don't need good health care for better pricing, although that just happens. You need better healthcare so you don't have to micromanage how you're getting it. Healthcare in the entire rest of the g7 is just so vastly different in ways Americans largely don't even realize.
You’re right. Imagine yourself or a dependent having complicated medical issues. Well actually, don’t imagine it. It’s a nightmare. Worst part of the illness is dealing with the insurance no doubt.
No, ACA has rules for breast screening coverage. If it was a screening mammo and USlike this. If it was done to someone under 40 or not high risk it would not be a screening exam. If it was a diagnostic exam that is completely different. It would be covered under the general policy with copay/maximums etc. Screenings and diagnostic mammograms/US are different and not covered under preventive medicine.
That whole diagnostic vs preventative thing we do is so stupid. The raw cost of most tests is nothing. Labwork for example, they only run one or two tests (sugar, cholesterol) unless you request more, but don't say you're in pain or it becomes diagnostic!
Meanwhile, at the actual lab, the machines run a myriad of tests on each sample as they're designed to. So the back and forth about lab billing is asinine. The machines already calculated the results as a part of their standard operating procedure. Why not just return all results the machine generates regardless of query? Why not a full panel as SOP?
Why not make body scans SOP at a younger age so we have a baseline of what a person's body operates at before they age? Etc.
They've inserted extra steps just for revenue-generating touch points. So damn backwards.
You said it yourself. Co-pays, and deductibles.
It also depends on what lab the imaging was processed. Oftentimes labs adjacent to a hospital but not actually part of the hospital will accidentally (as if) get billed as an on site hospital visit for these types of procedures unless caught. OP could also have an HDHP.
I've also seen some insurance plans will for some unearthly reason have gaps in the contract and some types of tests become billed outside of insurance even on the "better" plans.
Also, fun thing I learned, women don't need mammograms! They can get ultrasounds instead and ultrasound is actually better!...
...Except insurance won't cover it as a wellness visit because apparently medieval tit-smashing is the preferred method for insurance providers.
Thank you for providing some reason. I’m glad the person you’re replying to has never had crappy insurance before. This bill is completely within the US standards especially with a high deductible plan.
I don't like that I've had to learn so much about medical billing to keep from getting fucked over by procedures honestly. I used to just go do things and ignore the cost because health > money. But then the prices started skyrocketing for simple things and I've had to learn to jump and dodge costs. It's asinine having to be your own doctor, lab tech, and billing department just to play within the confines of the US medical system.
I feel pointless overhead like this is designed to keep us so busy, we don't have energy left to realize how fucked we are, let alone react to it. But, "mah freedumb!"
Congratulations on not having breast cancer, and on living in a society where it only takes a few days’ wages to afford a test that can detect death lurking in the future so you can avoid it.
$644/$7.25 (minimum wage) is 88.8 hours. That's two weeks of gross income. A giant chunk of us cannot afford that. Your snarky comment is stupid and you should feel embarrassed.
So ten days of work. And in return you avoid death. It’s still an amazing deal, and nobody is forced to do it.
My comment is here to remind people to be thankful for the world we live in because it’s better than the lives of most humans who have ever lived.
So what should they do without 10 days of income they likely need for food, shelter, etc? Not eat? Get evicted? Sounds like a great way to not avoid death
As I said they don’t have to do it. I haven’t had any cancer screenings, for instance, and I’m
not bitter about that.
I just paid $1600, which took me a year to save up, for a surgery that left my bellybutton fucked up and itchy, but at least it won’t slowly tear open now like it would if I lived in nature.
I’m thankful to be here. Others don’t have to be thankful for the incredible medical options we have around us, but my advice is that they do.
$600 to potentially avoid death is incredible. And, if it’s not worth it to someone, no one is forcing them to do it.
Thank god I was born here instead of a any other moment of human history. That is all I have to say.
You seem very deeply invested in bitterness, so I’m not willing to put any more effort into changing your mind. Take it or leave it, and maybe look up the health effects of different emotional states if living well is important to you.
Goodbye.
I'm deeply invested in bitterness for leaving 1 comment pointing out that it might not even be a choice for someone if they couldn't afford it? Lol. Get a grip. I can simultaneously be thankful that modern medicine exists and also advocate for it being available to everyone, not just those that can afford it.
So I consider myself an optimist, but even I know it's stupid to say "I'm happy I only suffered a little bit so I will ignore solvable problems". Also I find it very weird and disturbing that the argument "you are free to die" is being used to promote what I assume is a free market approach to healthcare. Or maybe you don't have an angle other than to tell OP that they aren't in pain, when obviously they are, and that's fucked up.
Yea, there's a lot we have going for us with medical advances, but let's not forget the reason millions die every year is not because lack of medical advances, but rather lack of access to those advances. Those millions of people didn't choose not to afford it. They didn't choose to die.
Being an optimist isn't about ignoring the problems of the world and calling people who are upset about these problems bitter.
It's about looking at these problems head on and believing you can address them. If you are an optimist, the light you shine should allow you to see.
Healthcare can't be left to the free market. Simply because the demand part of the market isn't free.
My country screens like 10% of total (mostly) boob-havers per year for free (the number would heve been higher if more ppl decided to get tested). So basically everyone is invited, with mobile test units (just big containers/trucks) roaming around the country for the elderly, or for a bit more remote villages, or just to spread awareness & make someone get screened out of convenience.
Since September my wife has had about ten CTs, three MRIs, two major surgeries (the last one 7 hours long), one emergency surgery, weeks of chemotherapy and radiation treatments and about 8 weeks hospitalised including some time in the ICU.
Total cost: $0
Unless you count the cost of parking when I visit her in hospital, in which case I’ve spent about $170 USD
This is in New Zealand with a publicly funded health system.
In Canada and something similar. My aunt got breast cancer and my mum has since been diagnosed with leukemia. Of all the stresses they have dealt with, money has never been one of the things.
It's absolutely cruel that we would do that to a human being in such a tough time. Why any nation would prioritize profit over someone's well being is beyond me.
That said, Canada isn't perfect either my son is diabetic and we still have a lot of profit inducing flaws. It's just when you compare them with "the greatest country in the world"... Well nothing really compares.
Edit - changed pancreatic cancer to leukemia. No idea why my brain wasn't working this morning. Point being fuck the BRCA2 mutation.
My wife's experience and costs were about the same for similar breast cancer treatment in Canada.
Our parking fees are a bit more expensive...
Man what the hell is your wife going through...
A cancer diagnosis and complications from chemotherapy. It’s been rough on her but she’s an absolute trooper.
First of all, I am glad you do not have breast cancer.
In the Netherlands...Every year or two a buss comes to our village where one can get tested for breast cancer.for free.
Please tell me, it's the Brabant Breast Bus. If not, your country has failed.
Close.
It is the Borstenbus, which translates to Breast Bus.
But it is all over the Netherlands, not only in Brabant. So it couldn't be called that.
Shame. Three legged alliterations are objectively superior.
On the bright side, I now know that the Dutch use the same word for breasts we Germans use for bristles.
Bristly breasts
Land of the fee.
In Sweden there is no cost for this whatsoever. Most things are free or have tiny bills. I'm not saying it to make you feel worse, just pointing out that America is bordering on not being a civilized country anymore.
As a bonus, we don't have any Musks here.
Hhh. Nice.
Looking across Pacific Bathtub USSA seems to be shitshow in every aspect of life. Meanwhile about EU I mostly say "EU, I belive in you!"
We do, but we call them Rogozins.
Don't we? The "IF Metall" union would probably tell you otherwise
I mean, who are we talking about? I admit I don't follow news much but which Swedish guy is rich like Musk? I know we have wealthy bank families and so on of course, or Axfood etc.
Fisk is talking about the Musk. He's there, trying to eat your labor rights.
Ah yes. But he didn't succeed. :)
That's great! I haven't been keeping up with the news on that. What was the outcome?
I haven't followed it but it's hilarious to read about:
https://futurism.com/elon-musk-destroyed-sweden-unions
we dont know that yet, its still ongoing
Respectfully, punching down does nothing but make people who are suffering feel worse. Posting here about how much better you have it than us isn’t helpful. We already know how messed up it is here.
Yeah I know. It's just such a contrast between how the country markets itself VS reality. We have almost exclusively American and British TV here and it really is quite a shock when you see what the country actually is.
But if there is a world war, we will appriciate support from the US of course. One thing they are awesome at is armies and weapons.
You say that, but we couldn't defeat a bunch of horse-riding semi-nomads with Kalashnikovs after 20 years in Afghanistan.
No but the US has always been bad at guerilla warfare. Same in Vietnam. Whatever nomads the US are fighting at the time are using intelligence rather than raw military power, and it's the only way to fight a more powerful force.
Do you know that though? Because the internet is flooded by Americans defending their shitty system.
For those unaware how Health Insurance works in the states.
You can have health insurance all you want. Especially if this bill is recent, they will cover a large part of the cost, but most people are still on the hook for Usually between $1000-1500 of all healthcare before insurance REALLY kicks in. This is called the Deductible (and Out of Pocket) expense. You also pay a 'Premium', essentially a subscription cost that normally comes directly out of your paycheck.
For single coverage, just yourself, it's about $1200. For family coverage, where your insurance covers everyone in your house, It's usually double that. So ~$2,500-3,000.
So this person probably hasn't had any bills yet this year. Once they pay about $1500 in costs, everything after that becomes (mostly) free. Depending on what you have, insurance will pay anywhere from only 80% - 100% of the cost from whatever the procedures and meds are.
Then funny part is that some places in America the cost is so high, this might be a situation where their insurance DID kick in already and their insurance is still making them pay that much. Or it's a case where you get a bill for that much but your insurance hasn't paid it yet... so it looks like you're supposed to... so you do... then two months later you get a check for that amount.
It's so. Damn. Silly. And I resent Republicans every day for it. That's not even the Fascist MAGA Theocracy republicans. Just your stock standard ones lmfao.
$1000-$1500...?
Most people are on high deductible plans, so it's more like $3000-$5000
That could be true, but do you have a source for that? A significant portion of people are on Medicare/Medicaid, which usually doesn't have deductibles that high.
i can't give you a source for "most people," but personally my out-of-pocket is $6k for myself, $12k for my family. about the only thing covered before that number is met is yearly physicals. i pay about $500 a month for this (after my employer's contribution). dental separate, no vision.
I really don't understand why there is anyone against universal health insurance in the states.
Pretty much everyone is guaranteed to get major hospital bills at some point in their life. They are paying massive fees to insurance companies to line their pockets instead of hospitals to provide better service.
Sure, taxes will go up a bit to cover it, but what you'll pay in taxes over your lifetime is going to be no where near what you pay in insurance and healthcare procedures.
I pay $0 annually for insurance, and I can walk in to see my doctor at any moment to consult on something for $0, and if something needs to happen I can get blood work and X-rays for $0, then go to the hospital for surgery for $0 (maybe a $5 parking pass).
So if I had insurance like that and I actually had cancer I'd pay the first $2,000 and then literally all treatment after that would be free regardless of cost and then I just pay like the standard insurance price?
Presumably your insurance would then go up after that or does it only go up for other cancer related stuff?
well it depends.
for major surgeries, no. after you satisfy your deductible, you're likely to pay a co-insurance on your procedure.
co-insurance is the percentage you're personally responsible.
so lets say your procedure is billed by hospital for 50,000. and your co-insurance is 20%.
you would be paying 20% of the 48000, so 9600.
up to your "out of pocket maximum", which can be like 15000 to 30000 or whatever.
if you've already paid like 10k already this year then you would just be paying up to 5k for ur cancer treatment.
confusing? yes. fuck health insurance so much.
No the treatment would not be free, most plans will also only cover a certain percentage of the overall procedure so on top of your annual deductible which mine for example is 7,500, there's also certain procedures that are not covered at all and the rest of the procedures are at a 70-85% coverage, which is still better than them not covering anything I guess but still pretty dog shit for an insurance that you're paying over $100 a month that's tied to your employer
It's pretty confusing, but basically your insurance won't cover much until you meet your deductible for the year. After that, your coverage depends on the policies of your insurance company. Some stuff may be totally covered, some partially, some not at all. And there's really no way to know what costs what until you get it done.
This is the part that drives me bats. For any other service in any other industry you can get a quote first, but for some fucked up reason healthcare in America doesn't work that way. The hospitals and insurance companies just do whatever the fuck they want, and you get to find out afterwards if you could have afforded it, i.e. after it's too late. It's such bullshit.
Indeed, I hate it when people are like "you shouldn't pay that much, you need to shop around". Assuming you even have multiple hospitals to choose from, tell me you don't get "I don't know" 9/10 times when you ask about the cost of a procedure.
you can absolutely ask the hospital for a good faith estimation.
You should also hate Joe Lieberman. He scuttled a public option for the ACA, which likely would have prevented a lot of the shenanigans insurance companies pull, as they would be competed right the fuck out of business with a robust public option. Japan has private and public insurance and costs are generally low for health care. Most kids get it completely free
IDK about how Japanese insurance works, but of course they will want kids' healthcare free. If not then their already dropping population would drop even faster.
Those amounts you mention. The 1200-3000 dollar ones. Call me silly, but I have no clue if that’s monthly or annually. The whole situation there seems so alien. Healthcare, but also salaries and cost of living. (E.g., $45k/year is a pretty good salary here, while I think it is a junior-ish salary in the states, right? >$100k/year is rare as rocking horse shit here at least.)
I'm supposed to have a colonoscopy because of my celiac
This is why I don't
Goddamn... as a fellow celiac sufferer, I'm very sorry to hear that. If the blood tests are pretty conclusive, you can probably assume it's celiac without the colonoscopy. The downside is that if you start a gluten-free diet now and decide to get a colonoscopy later, it might now show anything since you're off the gluten. Best of luck!
Oh I've had the diagnosis for a few years, and I've totally adhered to the dietary restrictions I was given. If I so much as question whether cross contamination may have taken place, I don't eat the food.
I'm pretty well stable now and no longer shitting myself. But I know I'm at greater risk of things like colon cancer, which is something that my family has a history of.
My insurance would "cover" it in that it would go towards my deductible, but that's still thousands of dollars, and we had to buy a furnace this year because ours died. I'm thinking about going and having it done in Mexico. I have in-laws there.
Edit: They did more than just blood tests. I'm not going to post all my lab results here obviously, but I can tell you I took shit samples there more than once, and amid all these tests all I could think about was the cost.
My wife has a chronic illness with expensive drugs.
Healthcare is around 35% of our families gross income when you include in the cost my employer pays, what I pay, plus deductable and copays.
I avoid going to the Dr as much as possible because I have a separate deductible. If I went for everything I should it would be closer to 40% of our gross income.
That country is fucked up. You people really have to come together and demand universal healthcare, as impossible as that sounds.
We elected Obama on that promise and our reward was the current system 🫠
Obama improved a lot through Obamacare, but it's really hard to get a good system in the USA as a lot of people are strongly against free and universal health care, even though it'd likely decrease the amount they have to pay for their own health care too. I really don't understand it.
Oh, it's very easy to understand. They're worried their tax dollars might help someone who "doesn't deserve it", so they'd rather not help anyone.
I broadly agree with that, it’s better from the former system in the way that walking on glass is better than being on fire.
As with a large portion of our fucked up politics, the answer for why people are like this here IMO goes back to conservative talk radio post-Fairness Doctrine. For people who haven’t lived in the rural US, especially before satellite radio, I can’t emphasize enough how much the massive amounts of extreme conservative talk radio shows impact the stuff you hear every day. When the majority of Americans never travel abroad to see otherwise it’s easy to just accept the conservative propaganda that you half listen to for hours a day, every day, for decades.
Unless you were unemployed or extremely poor, in which case there's no difference
How much that’s true is going to depend greatly on whether or not you live in a state that expanded Medicare. For my home red state, it’s basically the same as it was pre-ACA if you’re poor. Go pound sand, more or less. But in the blue state I live in now the Medicare expansion helps a lot of people. Definitely much less dire than pre-ACA, but still a lot wrong with it.
But since the electoral college is controlled by the most unhinged and out of touch voters in the least educated states in the nation, sucks for us I guess.
Pounding sand isn't enough anymore. We need heads to roll.
Out of curiosity, why are they doing a colonoscopy rather than a gastroscopy for Coeliac confirmation? The disease affects only the small intestine, and so an upper small intestinal biopsy is sufficient and doesn’t require uncomfortable fasting/dietary practice before the procedure, and is a cheaper, quicker and safer procedure.
My confirmation was blood test and then gastroscopy - after the biopsy it was confirmed.
They did some labs and gave me my diagnosis. The way it was explained to me was that they wanted the colonoscopy to check for things like scarring and so forth.
To be clear, I'm not a medical professional, so my attempting to answer "Why would they..." is pretty fruitless. I have no idea; that's why I was seeing my doctor lol
Ahh okay, so it’s not confirmatory for the diagnosis but rather assessing the impact of living with Coeliac? That makes sense. I’m having a full endoscopy/colonoscopy later this year for a similar purpose. Fingers crossed everything comes up clear for you mate!
Honestly I could be remembering wrong. This was 2020 and 2021, and I haven't been back to the clinic since December 2021 when they charged me $200 out of pocket for just an office visit. My whole point posting that comment isn't that I have celiac, but rather that I can't afford this shit.
Go, get your healthcare, ignore the bills.
I'd rather die than have collections on my ass again
7 years later, it’s irrelevant
What do you mean by this? They just erase your debt after 7 years? Are you sure?
Yeah after 7 years it falls off your credit report.
On top of that, most major credit bureaus don’t even calculate small medical debts(
less than 1k I think) under $500 against your credit score.I mean don’t quote me on this, verify.
OK so I got home and did a quick google to fact check myself, here is the article regarding the subject from experian: https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/can-medical-bills-affect-credit-report/
Notably it falls off your credit report 7 years after the delinquency date- meaning whenever it was originally due, not when it was sent to the credit agencies and not when it went to collections.
From transunnion: https://www.transunion.com/blog/credit-advice/how-long-do-collections-stay-on-your-credit-report
I wish I would have known this when I thought my life was over after having appendicitis the one year of my life I couldn't afford insurance. Thanks for letting me know. I'll keep it in mind.
I've got to say there's no way my debt would ever be less than $1k though. I'm pretty sure my deductible is $5k, but I've also given up on the whole credit score thing. I always get emails that it's dropped or whatever, and I'm just numb to it at this point it's just background noise
I edited my reply above with some sources.
The credit score system is bullshit, but it can be played. I opened like 13 credit accounts in my early 20s and keep them rotated, because of that my total line of credit is ridiculous. I don't use it all very much, but on paper it makes my credit utilization look like 1-2% of my total limit, which raises my score significantly.
So those sources say it doesn't stay on your credit report, but I'm not really concerned about that. My credit score is consistently dogshit, and I've given up on it. I don't really care about my credit score at all.
What I'm concerned about are legal issues, wage garnishment, and other things that would directly affect me and harm me. If I just don't pay, wouldn't they seek legal action against me? I'm almost certain they would, and I'm pretty sure that doesn't change after 7 years.
Edit: I think I misread your comment. I see now that it does say "credit report." For some reason, I misread that and thought you were saying the debt just disappears. So really, that wouldn't help me much at all. I still need to be terrified of going to the doctor. One expensive trip could ruin my life.
America is well overdue for a revolution.
the idea of a revolution is dead. there's no way people are going to keep their digital limb aside for a moment to think that they are getting scammed by corporations everyday.
we're frogs in the boiling water
The "frogs in water slowly brought to a boil" meme is totally false. The frogs jump out when the water gets too hot for them, which is long before it's boiling. Just saying ;)
thank you for the heads up, dark grey colour(or is f4 some musical note?).
All I can say is that there was once some site where I had great difficulty finding a valid username that wasn't already taken, and this name worked.
Oh, but we have the best healthcare system in the world (which is why I'm thousands in medical debt despite having good insurance with no sign of a diagnosis or treatment) and you have super long wait times in other countries (which is why I had to wait almost a year to get a new neurologist when my old one retired).
But hey, we keep the health insurance industry making money for its shareholders, so there's that.
My wife and I have 'the best insurance in the city" we've been told by practitioners. Standard bloodwork costs me several hundred dollars.
*Best for them :p
Honestly do not mean this as a troll, but each and every one of us should call our house representative and let them know that we would appreciate more assistance from them when it comes to how much we have to pay for our out of cost expenses.
https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative
Just stating our displeasure with the current costs here on Lemmy doesn't help resolve anything.
Sadly, this is my representative.
http://12ft.io/https://www.courierpress.com/story/news/local/2024/01/11/here-are-5-controversial-moments-from-larry-bucshons-time-in-congress/72153657007/
The good news is he isn't seeking re-election.
FYI, that double link as one link isn't working right for me.
It throws up a harsh pop up with a close button that doesn't actually work when you try to close it, and the formatting was all off.
I had to strip off the http one, and keep just the https one.
I'm not sure why it didn't work, but 12ft.io is used to beat paywalls.
Yeah I looked it up, so saw it was legit/its purpose.
For what it's worth it I was using DuckDuckGo browser on Android.
I had shitty insurance when I worked for a major retailer, and I had to go to the ER.
My copay was $300 plus 40% of the bill.
Turned out uninsured people making under $100,000 a year got a 90% discount at that hospital, so it was actually more than 4x the cost because I was insured.
Don’t protect the major retailer. Who screwed you
I've shared enough specifics about my various careers on here that saying exactly who I worked for at different periods of my life can really narrow down my identity.
That is beyond fucked
Might be cheaper to buy the equipment at that point.
But seriously: That is not at all what the insurance pays. Prices are ridiculously inflated to give ridiculous discounts to greedy companies. Patients and Doctors get the short end of the stick.
The insurance didn't pay anything at all.
They negotiated the rate down massively, and then required me to pay 40% of the sticker price, so they get away paying nothing despite getting 500 a month in premiums between me and my employer.
I've got to be honest, as a fellow American with chronic health problems, that seems dirt cheap for a diagnosis.
Anything above zero for cancer checkups seems way too high for me, from Spain.
Don't disagree, but it's not a bad price if you're an American stuck with our shitty, exploitative system.
But they're very important, so people are more likely to pay for them. America! Lol
You still are paying for it but its taxes I stead of insurance
The problem is that Americans pay both taxes and these outrageous rates for medical. People throw around the oh it's just in your taxes as if Americans don't also pay taxes. Ours just get wasted on useless fucking defense contracts
That's why it's cheaper though, and why you also don't go broke if you're poor and have health issues.
Per capita, American spends more on healthcare than any other country in the world, and that's including all the people that leave things untreated because they can't afford treatment. It's not more expensive because the care is necessarily better than other countries; it's more expensive mostly because of a lot of overheads in the US system. Paying for basic health care as part of taxes usually also means that it's a single-payer system, meaning the government negotiates pricing for the entire country, rather than having lots of insurance companies that each do that separately (usually including a healthy profit margin for themselves). That's one reason why medicines are so much cheaper in other countries.
Americans pay more in taxes towards healthcare than any other country, and then pay for private healthcare on top of that.
I pay less taxes than the average American, therefore my healthcare is free for me in comparison. I also don't pay for private insurance either.
As a Canadian it's horrifying.
Ex wife was denied a mammogram due to having too many, according to her insurance company. Cancer runs in her family and doctors have discovered lumps they want to keep an eye on.
Honestly that's kind of on you for having breasts
Yeah, a knife is only like 5€
Mom died of breast cancer. On my bd last month.
She felt a lump, didn't get it checked, figured it was a bit of fake titty that broke loose. Would have cost too much to get looked at.
Found she had breast cancer. Her chemo stent got infected, wanted to wait until Monday to have it seen. Would have cost too much.
Husband drove her 2-hours through 14° weather, snow and mountains and all, to the ER. Dead within 24 hours.
But hey! Another dead conservative Boomer! Win?
There's absolutely no win there. I have a similar experience just before COVID, and the only saving grace was all his treatment - and the cost when he chose plan B - were both readily available and both cost-free.
It's unmitigated cruelty that you need to grieve while dealing with that healthcare system; and second-guess with the what-if thoughts as well.
We tell the stories of the people we lost in COVID, and it helps to laugh together, and I hope you have a similar outlet to make room for some peace eventually.
Human to human: I am so, so sorry for your loss and hope you are able to accept it and eventually still live your life to its fullest. I imagine that's what she would have wanted. Nothing else I say should diminish that.
What does this mean!? I don't have breasts, so I have no personal experience but is it common for parts of them to break loose??
I'm sure you're hurting, but this is a lot of projection. Did anyone actually say this (either online or in-person)!? If so, they are a bad person, no matter their political affiliation or beliefs and you should stay away from them...
I'm assuming she had breast implants and she thought one of them ruptured. It happens and isn't life threatening.
I'm sorry that it wasn't the case though.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, but shit like this is what prevents people from taking preventative measures.
Can confirm. Had my mammogram last month and they recommended an ultrasound because my breast tissue is dense. I've had it once before with no problems, but my husband's company switched insurance providers and it kicked in January 1, so now the lab where I normally go isn't in-network and every lab that is in their network wants to charge me hundreds of dollars. This is with good insurance. (My husband always picks the most expensive insurance package because we're getting older.)
Money is a little tight right now because I'm in between jobs, so at this point I've given up. I'll look into it again when I'm employed again but it's just not affordable at the moment.
Its purposeful. It's done this way so that there are legal ways of justifying the death of millions per year as they are deemed unprofitable.
Congrats tho. Just lost a friend to breast cancer that was suspected years ago but not confirmed until december. Seriously, congrats.
I'm having a tooth extraction at an oral surgeon later this month and I just found out I'm paying $450 for it. If there's a complication it'll be $1100. I also have insurance.
I think this is one those situations where "I did all that for nothing" is way better outcome
Sometimes it feels like you should get something for all that money. Like maybe just a little bit cancer, to make the tests feel worth it.
This is sarcasm, obviously.
I feel like you are missing the point of OPs post. I think OP is complaining about the price.
I mean yeah by all means that amount is ridiculous and not acceptable in any level
I'm so used to it, I was expecting more. "that's it?" - i thought to myself, in this boring dystopia.
Could be worse. You could have paid that to find out you do have breast cancer...
Wtf, as a Canadian who had a breast reduction and a revision for free this sort of thing seems like a nightmare to me.
Everything in this fucking country is a giant predatory scheme.
Sometime last year I felt some lumps in my scrotum. worried it could be a sign of balls cancer, I went and had them checked. I have probably better health insurance than most people i know. Cost about the same. Outrageous. but hey, turns out i don't have balls cancer so i guess it could be worse.
It could also be better. I don't think that there is any Western industrial nation outside the US, where this wouldn't be fully covered by your statutory insurance.
Well, good for you. Some people do have ball cancer and don’t have $644 to confirm it.
It sucks. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
And there’s a lot of people who have to live with ball cancer because even if they could afford to confirm it, they couldn’t afford to treat it. And that’s a decision people make every damn day.
Hell, I have a well-paying job and decent insurance and I still have to decide when my kids cough is bad enough to merit a sick visit to his pedi knowing that it’ll cost $250.
One of my kids had an ear infection right before his annual well visit (which is covered). They did his hearing screening as part of the well visit and it was covered, but he failed due to sinus congestion left over from the cold.
So we came back for a re-test. Still congested, still failed. Come back again in a couple weeks.
Couple weeks later we come back and he passes.
Few more weeks later we received bills for $250 for each of the followup hearing tests.
The whole system is fucked.
My youngest child needs speech therapy because he's nonverbal and should be stringing full sentences together by now. Speech therapy is entirely coinsurance based so I have to pay $95/appt until I reach the $2000 deductible then I'll be paying ~$20/appt
These appointments are biweekly and started in November. I had a long conversation with both insurance and the therapy office to clarify my options. I found out the therapy office charges only $65/appt if you don't go through insurance, reduced the appointments to weekly, while reducing all other spending I could to stretch it out, then come end of the year (open enrollment) I maxed out the flexible spending account at $3k for the year and verified the new year didnt drastically change the insurance coverage. I still had to lean on wealthier family to help me pay for everything but pretty soon we should hit the deductible and it'll (hopefully) be smooth sailing from there.
I'm also thinking I should setup a HSA and toss some of the tax return in there when that arrives as another line of defence. My wife tends to treat our checking account as the "available budget" so I've taken to shuffling money into various other accounts as that's far easier than fighting to get her to manage money better
Preface, I am not an accountant. This is my perspective and you’re welcome to take the advice or not.
The benefit to HSA is that it’s funded with pre-tax money (same as FSA, but HSA rolls over year to year and usually balance over a certain amount is able to be invested into some mutuals/etfs).
Big benefit of FSAs is that they are pre-funded at the start of the year with pre-tax fake money. So that’s there for you for the whole year (just make sure it’s all used up by the end). Think of it as a 0% line-of-credit that is secured by your salary/job, resets every year, and is paid automatically by pre-tax dollars.
I don’t think you’d be coming out putting your tax refund into an HSA, unless you are counting the post-tax deposit towards this years tax burden. And if you are claiming standard deduction, it may not even give you very much of anything.
If you can float the cash, better to put your refund in a 1yr CD or something. Even into a HYSA, you’d probably come out ahead over an HSA.
Keep in mind you can only contribute to an HSA if you have a HDHP. If you don’t have an HDHP, it’s not an option.
Forgot about this part. I just saw it was an option through my bank and thought it might be a good idea. If the bank one does require being tied to an insurance account then that won't work since my insurance has too low of a deductible to let me get an HSA
HSA only has four requirements for eligibility, but three of them are “you are covered by an HDHP, no other insurance, and not medicare”
https://apps.irs.gov/app/vita/content/17s/37_04_005.jsp?level=advanced
If pre-tax savings is what you’re looking for, FSA is it.
Also if you do day camp or preschool for your kid, there is also DCFSA. They can pay for certain dependent care expenses with pre-tax savings…daycamp, after/before school care, and preschool, are some of the big ones for kids.
Hey! I did this same thing! Also cost about 6 or 700
I thought a yearly mammogram was always covered with insurance after the ACA was passed? Or maybe that's only after a certain age?
An annual screening mammogram is automatically covered. If it's a "diagnostic" mammogram following up some specific issue or complaint, then it would then fall into whatever normal policy rules you have with your insurance company for imaging tests. That's more likely the case here since this person had to go on to have an ultrasound as well.
If you have insurance but get billed for an annual screening mammogram, it's possible it was coded improperly by billers and you should definitely check up on that before paying.
Makes sense. But also sad that's the way Americans have to live.
It's only after like 35 or something, iirc
i got charged a few thousand (i think $3000?) for a regular ass MRI in Georgia. in italy the same thing would cost like €200-300 at most, probably less
Honestly not even surprising anymore :(
My getting established visit with the doctor cost me $430 last month...
That's just a visit to get started and nothing of significance was actually discussed.
Don't worry, every month we pay $1k for the pleasure of paying retail price on prescriptions until we hit our deductible. Only 9k to go!
Yeah it sucks. If it's coded as "screening" it's covered. As a tip - my GYN says she can see as much in the 3d mammogram as she can with the regular plus ultrasound and that one she can code as screening and it costs about $25 as an add-on.
Did they charge you $64.77 for the cup some water came in, and $78.12 for the water itself?
And how much are you paying for your health insurance?
About $300 per month. That doesn’t include vision and dental.
Damn. So if this is the only thing you did related to healthcare in the past year it really cost $1850.
I just paid over $2000 to find out I don't have throat cancer. Also have insurance. That's just the cost of a 5 minute laryngoscopy and a 10 minute CT scan.
You can get charged thousands just for showing up an an ER, seeing no one but the receptionist, receiving no treatment whatsoever, and leaving in exasperation after a multiple hour wait without any sign of anyone having any intention of administering to you in the slightest. I've seen it happen personally. America!
Yeah luckily that is free over here. Every few years, and always if a doc orders it.
Empire aka "The Land of the Free" "sarcasm"
You can't just drop that without details. Plan name. State. Monthly premium. Obamacare subsidy or no.
Yeah, I wonder, too. I've done the same for $15 copay through Kaiser (individual, marketplace) and Blue cross (employer).
I'm forever grateful to have been on Kaiser my entire life, and that all my employers have had it as an option.
It's expensive up front (~$5k per year, my employer covers it thankfully) but the most I'll ever pay per year out of pocket is $1500. Office visit/urgent care is $10, ER is $100 and waived if you're admitted, prescriptions are $20, and the most expensive surgery I could get is $150 which includes the hospital stay if needed. My partner got sterilized for like $35. The biggest thing for me is my therapy is free so long as it is virtual (my therapist is 4 hours away by car anyway), and $10 for an in person visit if I make the hike.
It's absolutely wild how much one's experience can vary with the healthcare system in the US based on their insurer alone.
I had a $3000 bill for something similar and let it go to collections 2 years ago. I'm not fucking paying that. I just keep contesting the charges and it hasn't yet hit my credit. I imagine it will catch up with me eventually though.
After 7 years it’s irrelevant
Shameless plug for NZ: https://www.timetoscreen.nz/breast-screening/sign-up/
But then of course you'd have to live somewhere that isn't the greatest country in the world.
🤬
You know, you could just not pay it. Hospitals can't jail you for not paying, nor can they refuse you service.
The only thing that happens is your credit score goes down. That's it. (And pretty soon that won't be a thing anymore.)
So don't stress it; ignore medical debt.
Uhhh, source?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Biden+medical+debt+relief
Come live with us, mammograms and shit is free.
Mammograms are one of the few things in my country that's completely free. You need to pay at least a little for almost all other healthcare.
I guess it's a good investment to have peace of mind! /s
Ignore it. Throw it away. They already billed your insurance ten times that much, they made their money .
That's a good way to get the bill sent to collections and have debt collectors ruin your credit score. Real life isn't as simple as just ignoring your bills.
Credit is an unnecessary yoke of capitalism
I have never seen charges like this for breast imaging under insurance before. Something is wrong, either billing or the insurance. The only way I can see this if the imaging was ordered without a proper reason...but likely not.
You seem oblivious to the realities of most insurance plans in the US.
The part I think most Americans don't realize it's this:
In Canada, when I don't feel well, I go get it looked at. I barely need ID (and when I broke my arm I forgot it at home). I don't need to provide proof of insurance or a visa card, butnindomhave a medical number for records segregation.
My point is, healthcare in Canada at its current and worst post-covid state, is still a "here is my body please fix it KThx" setup, and it's comically more easy than the in-network/out-network who-bills-whom and how-will-you-be-paying mess that is America; and comically more easy while Americans don't realize it that I get stressed just remembering it from when I was there.
You don't need good health care for better pricing, although that just happens. You need better healthcare so you don't have to micromanage how you're getting it. Healthcare in the entire rest of the g7 is just so vastly different in ways Americans largely don't even realize.
You’re right. Imagine yourself or a dependent having complicated medical issues. Well actually, don’t imagine it. It’s a nightmare. Worst part of the illness is dealing with the insurance no doubt.
No, ACA has rules for breast screening coverage. If it was a screening mammo and USlike this. If it was done to someone under 40 or not high risk it would not be a screening exam. If it was a diagnostic exam that is completely different. It would be covered under the general policy with copay/maximums etc. Screenings and diagnostic mammograms/US are different and not covered under preventive medicine.
That whole diagnostic vs preventative thing we do is so stupid. The raw cost of most tests is nothing. Labwork for example, they only run one or two tests (sugar, cholesterol) unless you request more, but don't say you're in pain or it becomes diagnostic!
Meanwhile, at the actual lab, the machines run a myriad of tests on each sample as they're designed to. So the back and forth about lab billing is asinine. The machines already calculated the results as a part of their standard operating procedure. Why not just return all results the machine generates regardless of query? Why not a full panel as SOP?
Why not make body scans SOP at a younger age so we have a baseline of what a person's body operates at before they age? Etc.
They've inserted extra steps just for revenue-generating touch points. So damn backwards.
You said it yourself. Co-pays, and deductibles.
It also depends on what lab the imaging was processed. Oftentimes labs adjacent to a hospital but not actually part of the hospital will accidentally (as if) get billed as an on site hospital visit for these types of procedures unless caught. OP could also have an HDHP.
I've also seen some insurance plans will for some unearthly reason have gaps in the contract and some types of tests become billed outside of insurance even on the "better" plans.
Also, fun thing I learned, women don't need mammograms! They can get ultrasounds instead and ultrasound is actually better!...
...Except insurance won't cover it as a wellness visit because apparently medieval tit-smashing is the preferred method for insurance providers.
Thank you for providing some reason. I’m glad the person you’re replying to has never had crappy insurance before. This bill is completely within the US standards especially with a high deductible plan.
I don't like that I've had to learn so much about medical billing to keep from getting fucked over by procedures honestly. I used to just go do things and ignore the cost because health > money. But then the prices started skyrocketing for simple things and I've had to learn to jump and dodge costs. It's asinine having to be your own doctor, lab tech, and billing department just to play within the confines of the US medical system.
I feel pointless overhead like this is designed to keep us so busy, we don't have energy left to realize how fucked we are, let alone react to it. But, "mah freedumb!"
Congratulations on not having breast cancer, and on living in a society where it only takes a few days’ wages to afford a test that can detect death lurking in the future so you can avoid it.
$644/$7.25 (minimum wage) is 88.8 hours. That's two weeks of gross income. A giant chunk of us cannot afford that. Your snarky comment is stupid and you should feel embarrassed.
So ten days of work. And in return you avoid death. It’s still an amazing deal, and nobody is forced to do it.
My comment is here to remind people to be thankful for the world we live in because it’s better than the lives of most humans who have ever lived.
So what should they do without 10 days of income they likely need for food, shelter, etc? Not eat? Get evicted? Sounds like a great way to not avoid death
As I said they don’t have to do it. I haven’t had any cancer screenings, for instance, and I’m not bitter about that.
I just paid $1600, which took me a year to save up, for a surgery that left my bellybutton fucked up and itchy, but at least it won’t slowly tear open now like it would if I lived in nature.
I’m thankful to be here. Others don’t have to be thankful for the incredible medical options we have around us, but my advice is that they do.
$600 to potentially avoid death is incredible. And, if it’s not worth it to someone, no one is forcing them to do it.
Thank god I was born here instead of a any other moment of human history. That is all I have to say.
You seem very deeply invested in bitterness, so I’m not willing to put any more effort into changing your mind. Take it or leave it, and maybe look up the health effects of different emotional states if living well is important to you.
Goodbye.
I'm deeply invested in bitterness for leaving 1 comment pointing out that it might not even be a choice for someone if they couldn't afford it? Lol. Get a grip. I can simultaneously be thankful that modern medicine exists and also advocate for it being available to everyone, not just those that can afford it.
So I consider myself an optimist, but even I know it's stupid to say "I'm happy I only suffered a little bit so I will ignore solvable problems". Also I find it very weird and disturbing that the argument "you are free to die" is being used to promote what I assume is a free market approach to healthcare. Or maybe you don't have an angle other than to tell OP that they aren't in pain, when obviously they are, and that's fucked up.
Yea, there's a lot we have going for us with medical advances, but let's not forget the reason millions die every year is not because lack of medical advances, but rather lack of access to those advances. Those millions of people didn't choose not to afford it. They didn't choose to die.
Being an optimist isn't about ignoring the problems of the world and calling people who are upset about these problems bitter. It's about looking at these problems head on and believing you can address them. If you are an optimist, the light you shine should allow you to see.
This is called Stockholm syndrome.