If you could split yourself into a copy of yourself, how many copies would you make to satisfy all your wishes?

tetris11@lemmy.ml to Asklemmy@lemmy.ml – 157 points –

You can regularly sync your memories with your copies (either one way or both ways)

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All I'd need is one. She'd do doppelgänger work and keep me company sentimentally as well as fulfill, ahem, physical needs.

Interesting idea but I would utterly hate a person like me.

The old saying about "you hate in others what reminds you of yourself" feels like it was written for me!

I really need someone to contrast my personality. I'd kick clone out within minutes.

'You can't hate me like I do. I know me better." -- Pitchshifter

'Please Sir, tell me why
My life's so pitiful
But the future's so bright?

Well I'd look ahead
But it burns my retinas'

- Pitchshifter

Your clone is only a copy of you at first, the more it experiences, the more different it becomes. That's going to cause issues eventually. They may even start working against you.

The solution is The Prestige.

The clone only exists long enough to complete a task or fulfill a purpose, but then one of us (and we don't know which) is gonna get dropped through a trap door and drowned when we're done.

You just described a meseeks box

Yeah but the person pressing the button isn't cloning themselves, and the meeseeks just wanna help and then die. Your clone is you, and may start getting...ideas if they hang around too long.

I was going to make a joke about how meeseeks want to die so it isn't that bad, but some people may be into that.

I disagree. The comment says you can Sync up memories. That means those memories and experiences would happen to both people once Synced.

If there was no Syncing then I fully agree.

Everyone has horrific qualities about them, but everyone has redeeming qualities too. I'm sure you and your clone would fight, but I can imagine you would get a lot done too

One me gets basically nothing done. I feel like a second me is just gonna be used to play all the coop games my friends don't play and we're gonna achieve even less somehow.

Yeah, two me’s would just amplify my indecisiveness to an unbearable level, I think we’d just explode together

Nah, that's what you think. You'd be hate fucking yourself before the end of the day

Tangentially related, but I often think about if everyone on Earth were just like me, what kind of place would it be?

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It would be very ill advised, but SO MANY. Enough to organize them. There's a mall nearby that's slowly shutting down, it's like 99% empty now, and there are homeless encampments all outside it being hassled by cops. Instead of giving it to them, it's gonna wind up bulldozed and turned into rich people condos. I'd make enough clones to occupy it and turn it into adhoc co-op housing!

...And obviously like all the boning and other stuff one does with clones as well lol.

Enough to enact a meaningful change in your community? That's probably the best answer I've read in this thread

One clone so that I can be a stay-at-home dad without losing my income. Finally finish grad school and fix up the house. Show my kid the world when they get old enough to appreciate it. Get a second job once they start school - something to get me outside, or working with people face-to-face. That would be amazing.

That sounds really nice. Nothing excessive, just meeting your needs

8,093,000,000

Andy Weir - The Egg:

https://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html

Me after splitting myself into any number of copies:

None as well. The copies will have same needs, same level of lazyness. This won't benefit anyone, quite the contrary. Just more bad people.

But you could work as a team with common goals, and alleviate the strain of doing it all alone.

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A billion copies to lead a communist revolution. Any more than that would probably be unsustainable globally in the short term while the existing capitalist systems are being dismantled and replaced.

Or 3 or 4 clone friends to help out with daily life.

Both are cool. The latter is probably easier and what my copies could actually manage.

Edit: Actually, the ability to sync memories is so ridiculously overpowered that one could probably achieve pretty much anything with their copies.

It also seems like its usefulness would scale up exponentially the more copies you make, so I'll go with the first one.

I mean, with that ability you are basically a hivemind. And if playing Stellaris has taught me anything, it is that more pops are always good.

Going dark with it: How much are organs worth on the black market?

Keeping it light: like 4 or 5 maybe, as long as there is no degradation in capabilities I think I could feasibly let 1 do my job, then the rest and myself could pursue other intellectual endeavors. I would also always have a full D&D group and be able to play the multiplayer games I have always wanted to that never had the interest of my friends.

DnD issue: memory sync.

You're just yourself playing yourself, and all copies know what all copies are thinking.

That's not a malfunction, it's a feature.

I always play wildly different characters in my campaigns and like to mix things up. The other players knowing what I am thinking just means that I don't have to communicate my hair brained schemes.

Of it's naruto style, I would make a 100 of me, have them all find jobs for a year or two, then collapse them all back and never have to work again aince I now saved for 100+ years.

The copies have no living expenses?

They do, but they will earn enough to save some, times 100 it's a lot

So what happens with my copy once I'm done with it?

Does it just continue to exist?

Do I need to kill it before it figures out that there can be only one, and kill me first?

Zero. I don't hate myself enough to put myself through this twice.

https://lemmy.ml/comment/8442526

Hell, I’m sad and depressed too when I’m alone, but I manage to get the laundry done and keep the lights on.

You are mistaking not wanting to torture another human being and subject them to a miserable existence, with depression. I think you might also be confusing being sad and lonely with depression.

Imagine being the copy that has to work while one does the family and one is traveling. The ethics of making a copy of myself that is for all purposes a slave would be really weird. Enslaving copies of myself, what a concept. Oh, also one needs to be kept on away for organ needs as I age or get hurt and one with a master copy in case the main "I" dies unexpectedly. yikes

OP says you can sync memories both ways - easy solution is to just take turns.

The second season of Invincible touches on this with the Mauler Twins (which aren't actually twins, but instead one guy who clones himself and copies over his brain so there is always two of him around):

::: spoiler spoiler Usually when they make a clone they can't tell which of them is the original and which is the copy (even though they ought to be able to know by remembering which medical bed the original was lying in, but never mind that), so they work together as equals. However, one time they make a copy after having suffered a disfiguring injury, so they know which one is the original and he lords it over the copy until the copy gets fed up and kills him. The copy sums it up as "sometimes things are the way they are for a good fucking reason." :::

That's assuming your copies have individualism. Where I feel my copies would believe in the greater good. Almost all know the role they play to make my true version incredible.

And knowing myself well, one would absolutely rebel to have empathy for the "worker" versions, and find a middle ground. Maybe 4-day weekends and vacations once a year.

Maybe your awareness splits with each copy, so you go from an "I" to a "we." No such thing as a "master" copy then, just different organs of the same meta entity

That's how I see it! It's very Buddhist.

A lot of folks in the other comments see it as they're the "Person Prime", and all the clones are some lesser being. Which I don't see it that way.

I would actually take a very different route as a contrast to others on this thread:

I would clone some 20-30 mes and do a speedrun together to gather enough funds to buy a farm, and live out the rest of my life in a commune dream with others like me 🥹

Eventually there’d be other people joining in and I could release more and more of the clones as we gather enough saved up and finish the mortgage and all.

So eventually we’d find something of a balance at around 2-4 clones with which we’d just arrange a rotating system of guaranteeing 3 weeks of free time each between a week of work 😌

Two clones, else it's going to start getting crowded here I think.

One of us works full time. One of us studies full time. The third would be entertainment (go see a movie, go to events, etc.). Every week, we rotate.

I'm not sure my income can support a full time student and full time layabout lol

If you're only working and studying 1/3 of the time how does each copy keep up with stuff at work and especially in the studies?

I live near a few military bases, so enough to overrun the guardhouses and evict all the troops currently inside. I would need like 100,000 clones (one of the bases is pretty big).

Does the power clone any equipment I'm carrying? If yes then I can get a single military uniform and a box of ammo before I start - if not the initial attack will have to be a human wave that captures an armory at least.

Once I'm rolling I will unironically do the "enemy at the gates" thing by having twice as many clones as I have rifles. If the man in front of you dies, clone yourself and pick up his weapon!

Everyone keeps tell me to go fuck myself. Inonly need the one copy to live out that wish.

You really need to work on your creativity - three, maybe four, copies would be much more fun.

My biggest cost is rent, we can all sleep in a big-ass ratking, boys love threesomes without the trouble of figuring out who the third will be, AFAIK food costs scale in my favor if I got a second job and a third me for hobbies. We could claim to be twins but also rotate who's running the of and faking vacation etc, produce higher quality content more often and charge more for it. and 4-100 mees for dumpster-diving/terrorism. Are there limits? Are the copies permanent? I'd like to replace the government of my country and the power seems OP as I could just copy up and annex everything in cartoonishly massive human waves.

You can reclaim your copies and spawn more whenever you want.

I know you want to enact change in your life, but isn't overthrowing the gov't a bit extreme? You have to remember that a good number of fascists voted for the status quo, and so will oppose you even more if you take the country by storm.

Why not enact change locally in your community first, and then see if people like what you're doing, and if so, try to spread that change, and essentially undermine the gov't and their fascist voters by showing them an easy alternative, and eventually shame them into doing the right thing, all without a single drop of blood.

Why not enact change locally in your community first

Then the government knows what I look like and will be able to plan around my existence. Most national security policies assume cartoonishly massive human waves coming out of nowhere are not possible. The element of surprise and the rush attack is key to victory. Revealing that I have this power without conquering the planet ensures instead that I get kidnapped and get experimented with in a secret bunker.

I agree, but then how are you not the same as the Jan 6 rioters?

the american revolution was illegal. sedition and insurrection are as good as the relative politics of the belligerents.

fascism is bad, capital slowly capitulating to fascists is bad, a proletarian revolution would be good.

Two would be ideal.

Three would have greater benefits, greater complexity and problems.

Assume you could sync your memories after each day. What would you do with them?

One would go to work, the other would be a house-husband.

I love my work, just don't have enough time to stay home, keep the place clean and tidy, read my books, visit places and chill!

You know that episode of Futurama, where Bender made near infinite copies of himself and nearly the destroyed the world?

Yeah that, but maybe a little slowly since I like to procrastinate.

I have enough problems managing myself. I don't see any advantages to doubling the workload.

Would you be able to manage yourself better if you could hold up a mirror to yourself? Maybe by having a clone judge you, as you judge yourself now, you might be more prone to change?

Nah, I'm getting old and crusty, I don't change easily without kicking and screaming. Plus I'd probably be annoyed as hell by my other self. I have my flaws, but I've learned to live with them - I just don't want those flaws to have twice the amplitude.

Just one. Cutting my work and responsibilities in half would be a significant improvement in my quality of life.

Not to mention having things done precisely the way I like. Reminds me of the black mirror "White Christmas" episode where they were creating digital clones to act as personal assistants.

You mean feed and house more people on a single income and subject those people to this hellscape? No thanks.

Plus, is my clone really going to be fine with acting as a slave? Unlikely.

I was thinking something more along the lines of splitting the work equally, then synching memories after and then I have way more free tine (I'd unsplit for that).

Yeah, I was thinking something like "come home for lunch" and swap roles. Both work half the day, and both get half a day to do a few chores/errands each week and get some downtime to play/learn/explore/tinker. Then divide and conquer in the evening the same way; split parenting time and other-stuff time.

Edit: Also depends if we can freely recombine and split. Merge to eat (most of the time) and sleep (amidst always) to minimize costs, split to do stuff in between.

Yeag tgats what I meant with "unsplit". Just do that for work and then unite again for the free time.

I considered that but it still increases costs plus my clone will also have the same hobbies that i already can't afford.

It would definitely be nice to split tasks but I'm just not sure it's worth it.
Unless they are also working which puts us back to square one.

I thought about this and sometimes I really appreciate having someone to offload executive function to (like a personal trainer). Maybe we could take turns.

I enjoy both acting like a leader, as well as not having to think and just doing what I'm told. But I don't enjoy, or am productive, when I have to both act as my own leader and follow my instructions. Splitting in 2 and aplitting those 2 roles would probably increase my productivity and happiness 10 fold.

Yeah, I find that I get squished between increases in responsibility without corresponding increase in power to achieve those responsibilities. :/ at work, anyway.

I guess I could learn lots of things by dividing learning tasks up

The problem is I imagine sexual harassment at work would skyrocket when all the managers and ICs are my clones.

What are the limitations here? Like... can I boss the clones around, or will they need to be coaxed?

Because if I can get a clone army you bet your ass I'm getting a clone army.

Coaxed in the same way you convince yourself to get up in the morning

So we sleep in a pile like hamsters and accomplish just about as much as a pile of hamsters.

Are hamsters depressed? Has anyone checked to see if hamsters are ok? I am worried about hamsters, they deserve to be happy.

You must have some floor space, or a sofa, or a friend to crash at, and even you must be reasonable enough with yourself to have a sleeping location rota that you can (all) agree on

I almost can't imagine a reasonable upper bound. Maybe 1000? That would certainly be enough to be able to do some serious stuff.

The ability to sync memories and have the same experiences and past would be crazy. I could align myself and all the clones to a shared goal easily. With the amount of clones, I could do basically anything.

Only problem I can see is... is there a way to know the "original"? Would I be in control of my clones? Or would I myself just be another clone? I think I'd still go for something like 1000 even if I was just another clone.

If you wanted to, you could tattoo each clone with a timestamp to know who was the true Alpha.

In terms of control, you could do the Naruto method of spawning a few clones for a given task, and then halting them (with a memory sync) before proceeding on to the next stage of your plan and spawning off new clones with your new memories.

1000 seems a bit excessive to be honest. I can imagine having 1 or 2 for leisure, 2 or 3 for work, 2 or 3 for hobby projects, maybe a max of 10 to make me happy.

The other 990 seems like you have visions of world domination

The other 990 seems like you have visions of world domination

I think I would need more than 1000 clones for that :P but definitely visions of some major influence. Why not if given that kind of power? I would try and make the world a better place.

Probably one, and I would need to swap the good and the bad parts between us.

Burdening your bad parts onto a version of yourself won't accomplish much if your memories sync regularly. I think you might need to defeat your demons another way

You only said memories can sync, not that they have to.

One. Then I can kill myself and let them deal with it all.

Then you're still one of the copies and now all copies have post traumatic stress disorder and clone suisyndrome, including you.

Being able to clone myself and sync with my clones is something I've thought about since I was a kid.

I don't think increasing the number of clones would ever allow me to satisfy all my wishes. The number of things I want to do increases with the number of experiences I have in a non-linear way. If I want to be satisfied I need to be willing to accept all of my wishes will never be fulfilled.

To answer your question specifically: 0 clones

Nice answer!

You see an exponential curve of interest, instead of an S-shaped curve? Your interests would likely develop rapidly at first yes, but even that will get boring with time and you might plateau at a small community of yourself with dwindling interests, slowly creeping back into single digits, and then finally yourself.

It wouldn't all be for nothing though, you would still have all the fruits and experiences of their/your labour.

The curve could definitely be S shaped, but it's hard to say.

I think that I would be really unhappy/bored in a world where I got to experience "everything" I wanted to do. In fact, just the idea of not having to make any trade offs/compromises is incredibly paralyzing to think about right now lol

If the clones don't allow me to live forever, eventually dying would be the most interesting thing for me to do because it would be the only "new" thing left to experience in my lifetime.

Only if the copies are temporary. If they're actual permanent clones, all I've done is create more issues for myself. They gotta eat, and we can't both work, how we gonna file taxes separately?

You all have the same SSN, so taxes should be the same unless the gov't can prove you have clones

I’m assuming these copies would also need to eat, sleep, and bathe as well, so there’d be some cost increases as these copies are added into the mix. Just getting extra jobs probably would only go so far before questions started getting asked or somebody noticed, so an army of me working multiple jobs really wouldn’t go well. I’d probably keep it minimal with only one copy, maybe two if I could make it work financially and set up some sort of work rotation so that “I” was only going into work once every few weeks. I might start doing a bunch of freelance design, writing books, gaming and whatever else.

Even better though would be if these were short-term copies that I could just absorb back into myself after a day or whatever and I didn’t have to worry about maintaining their bodies, like Mr. Meeseeks and they just disappear after their task is done. Then I’d just make copies left and right. “Oh shit, I’m out of milk. Copy #3,945,612, go get some milk, thanks.”

If it were me, there's a risk I would gain weight as I just sit at home playing video games and watching TV while my copies did all the work and errands. So each new copy would be slightly chubbier than the last. I would have to make a real effort to stay active, maybe exercise while my copy is out doing stuff, or get into an outdoor sport.

2 clones should be good. I can do a lot with 3 of me without complicating much.

Do the copies require existing matter? If not, I'm making infinite clones to explore the cosmos.

I think 5 or 6. I'd get to experience living in different cultures without having to abandon friends and family in my current location.

9

3 for security, 3 for family, and 3 for wandering.

we are crawancon

Why for security?

24 hours in a day means 3x 8 hour shifts on watch. Shit goes down and you can muster up a total of 3 to defend the original who can amass a hoard to zerg rush your enemies with waves of meat.

I think I meant more "why is security even necessary in your daily life?"

In this hypothetical situation, I would like to bolster the preservation of both the clones lives and possibly the OG Bio as much as possible. but I don't want to go overboard with a whole empire of me.

i could call it crawancon's council of nine... or perhaps nonet. or just crawanconglomerate.

yeah , fun at parties over here.

Pay Amazon to farm my data via their doorbell or put a me in a cute security guard outfit that is probably meant for a stripper and give him a stool to watch the block? Easy choice, Velcro short shorts and cheap aviators.

2 copies. One for work. One for Personal life. One for spare parts.

But if they have individualism then I will assume a fight will eventually break out.

8.6 billion.

Each of my clones would kill one person that was not a clone of me. Then we would all commit suicide.

Climate change is solved. You're welcome. Hopefully the next animal to evolve consciousness does a better job of it.

I'd say two hundred to be on the safe side. Have each clone specialize in different skills that would be beneficial in a grand adventure. Have some infiltrate white nationalist groups, government positions, etc. Giving my clones their own identity would be important, so many would need to undergo plastic surgery and build fake identities. I would also have many clones assist with organizing unions and creating revolutionary organizations, though I would tell nobody of the Hestia Legion, as to avoid the eyes of the powers that be.

Have others learn martial arts, visit shooting ranges, chemistry labs, and fab shops to learn how to build tools to further Our aims.

Others, including Hestia Prime, would form a "think tank" of sorts, where we'd take all the information from the hivemind and prepare the revolution.

As many as my finances can comfortably support

Assume a clone is free. You could take turns with a clone sleeping in your bed, or the couch, or the floor, or at your partner's, or crashing with a friend.

In that case then I’d start with one. Have them go to my job. And see how well they do at the job. Then get another one and have them do another job at a different site. Once I’m pulling in $200,000/year. I’d start traveling and see the world.

Since they are free. Then they don’t need food or water. Just need the heat for the house. Also need the electricity. As for clothing. Other then work clothes they can wear tshirts and jeans.

When I said "free" I meant you don't pay to have one, but you still need to feed and house them, as you would yourself.

Having two for work and one (yourself) for travel seems like a good balance though.

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A lot. It would be quite a few just to fully get into the hobbies I have, and quite a lot more to pursue all the things I'd like to learn.

Double digits or triple digits?

I could think of a few dozen on the top of my head, but I imagine it's one of those things that as the collective "me"s got used to it, we could probably all use an extra hand and it would quickly get into the hundreds

At least 3 total. One to be a stay at home parent, one to do my day job, and one to do my side hustle. Possibly another to just learn things.

So long as I also get the skills, and experience from the copy, I'd want a single copy that goes to college for me.

Hundreds. Thousands. Probably not more than a few hundred million

If we could sync memories, I could do everything at once. I could do anything each day. I could learn everything, I could do everything. My sense of self is flexible enough to see my clones as me... In fact I've had existential breakdowns over only having the one body. We'd be a single person from day one, hell my morality is based on "if the world was made up of only copies of me, would it be a better place".

I'd start with a dozen, then scale up as I get more jobs (I could handle 12x my food bill for a while, I mostly eat beans and rice already). I'd rotate between jobs and time the memory syncs to give myself work-life balance.

So my answer is basically "how many can I get?"

I think I would just need one. We'd have to work in opposing shifts to get my billion Euro idea out the door in a more reasonable time frame than the one I have currently been working in.

that seems fair. One could implement the backend, and the other the front end, and still share one mind at the end of the day

Assuming the clone is in the same physical and mental condition I'm in? None. I wouldn't knowingly inflict the pain I'm in on to any creature, and they wouldn't be of much use to me anyway if they're just in bed with me all day.

Assuming the clone is "fresh" and pain free? I still don't know that I would, having just someone else's memories of a fabulous vacation is worse than not going at all, and I'm not sure creating memories of cleaning and cooking and admin is worth having a clone doing it all.

For those reasons, I'm out. lol

E: Actually, scrap that, inspired by MxRemy and StellarTabi's replies - create all the clones if they're in pain, wheel them where they need to be, wrap them up with explosives and send a whole load to the door of each and every billionaire alive today so their assets can be seized in a coordinated attack. I'll take those memories, if it means we can be free.

For anyone reading this: check out the game Soma and the series Westworld if you find this topic interesting.

tens of millions. and since we'd all be me, we'd only split into 3-4 warring factions of communists, but then we'd liberate the world...

It would have to be a lot to change the local society, since one of me struggles in this job market and more of me will increase costs without increasing income (unless they all get a welfare cheque). More of my projects would finish (money notwithstanding), and I guess we could do heists. I'm not too fussed about who is the alpha, I think I could die tomorrow and have lived a kinda sad life and be OK with it.

There's the option of raising an army of clones and take control over the senate, that way you don't have to worry about the job market anymore

Imagine the grocery bill!

Y'all never split a meal (into mouse-sized portions to the point that you go to bed hungry every night)?

In double digits at the very least. I need to work more and we'd peer pressure each other into working.

I'd like helping hands in a few of my hobbies and we'd build bigger things made to scale if there were a lot of us.

Sounds good, though let's hope you have some copies for resting, in case they all burnout at the same time

Double the current world population.

Destruction for the sake of destruction? I've seen a few anime's like this, and they don't end well

Are you saying I don't take care of my things!!? The world is mine now!

either 2 or 3 (including the original) but no more. and we would always be together, would avoid being separated as much as possible. always in sync. I don't want a clone to send off to do chores. I want a clone to be with me to help me do chores.

None

So you already get enough sleep, have all your hobby projects finished, and are fulfilled in your romantic life?

Its not like that if i suddenly made a clone i'll be getting disected in the government lab.

One clone could go to work doing a gruelling backbreaking soul crushing job, and the other could sleep, for example.

Yeah, but neither Clone would want to go to the job. Both would want to sleep.

I'm not so sure about that mate. When was the last time you had two years off of working? If you got that opportunity, you might be surprised how much energy you have for doing stuff when you're not forced to kill yourself working for someone else every day just to scrape by.

Compromise - you could take turns alternatively having days working and sleeping with your clone.

I wouldn't do that due to my morals and ethics.

You're against taking turns abusing what is essentially yourself?

Yes i wouldn't abuse me or anyone for that matter.

You've never.... pushed yourself?

Yes but this isn't like that besides as i said if anybody finds out we both will get fucked

Getting found out is a legit problem if such thing were illegal, but just assume that your memories with your clone will be synced at the end of each day, and everyone who you want to know about your clones is cool with it.

I'm gonna entertain your idea and say if i have to make a cloan (because if there is a choice i wouldn't) i'll give us 2 minutes before fighting to death (if you have seem invincible series they kinda explains the clone dillema )

I don't understand the number of people in this thread who can't seem to enjoy their own company. Hell, I'm sad and depressed too when I'm alone, but I manage to get the laundry done and keep the lights on.

Dozens, at least. There's a property I want, and it would be amazing for each us to work full time to buy the property, build a shit ton of cob houses on it, pay for solar installation et cetera, and then go off grid with my own clone commune, wherein we grow our own food, make and sell fiber arts and wood working to support ourselves financially, and study to get our PhD in cultural anthropology.

Hell, a few of the clones could go off to universities in other countries where we don't acquire debt and we could get PhDs in many, many fields.

There are so many possibilities. Each of us picking a target language and learning it, eventually speaking hundreds of languages. With the memory sharing, too, it would cause a lot less strife over who got down time when, and who was out studying or working the gardens. At the end of the day, we all feel the same relaxation from a few hours of light reading or tears of the kingdom. My God, imagine the orgies. I am not my type, but I know what I like.

Full time cooking clone keeps up all happy and fed, full time cleaning clones keeps us all nice and neat, full time building clones make sure we have decent housing, full time blowjob clones make sure we're all relaxed, full time priest clone makes sure we maintain our tax free status as a religious organization. It would be glorious.

Question, can I extend this gift to others? Can I let my friends or family clone themselves?

Personally I think I'd make a few and just permanently sync everything to the point I'd just be one person with two bodies

Avoids the ickiness of figuring out who's the original and having any kind of power dynamic

Bonus points if I can create/merge clones together at will

Yeah great, so I’d have another person around that I don’t really like.

Maybe 3. One for work, one to babysit occasionally not all the time because I love my kid but just for nights id like to go out. And a third to cook for me.