At a certain point, eventually, the voters in Florida have to say enough is enough, right?
Can a state be majority racist, homophobic, anti woman and pro ignorance forever? Is that what 51% of Floridians really want?
If it’s anything like Ohio it doesn’t matter what the majority wants. The republicans have drawn the maps so that they can control everything even with like 45% of the vote
At the very least it shouldn't get them a republican governor.
Maps don't, but vote suppression does
Maps absolutely do as does vote suppression. It can be both
Sorry, this was specifically about gubernatorial elections - unless you have some sort of weird state electoral college thing (which IIRC only exists in Mississippi and even there only sort-of), those are generally done with a statewide popular vote, and thus independent of district maps.
By creating barriers in certain districts it's going to disproportionally going to affect those people, for example long lines, changing someone's voting district, removing someone's registration. There are tons of ways.
Right. Voter suppression. That's what they said.
They could just change the state constitution to allow state legislature to appoint the governor.
the Florida state constitution requires a statewide vote to approve an amendment with 60% of the vote. If they couldn't get a governor elected they couldn't amend the constitution either.
All they need is to suppress votes for one election and they'll have control over the state forever.
Voters in Florida saying “That’s enough racism” is like me at the Olive Garden saying “That’s enough parmesan”. It’s never gonna happen without severe civil unrest.
Olive Garden gives me civil unrest.
Olive Garden gives me unrest and the result is not civil.
Your comment made me giggle on this lovely Thursday in July. Thanks friend.
Fascism is an ideology that rewards people for being the worst version of themselves.
With every evil act they perform they feel better about themselves. These people are just getting started.
FL is literally filled with huge amount of morons from all over the country as a retirement haven. Rotten scumbags from all the other states.
DeSantis' approval rating has fallen off a cliff, and is continuing to fall, albeit more slowly.
So likely yes, they'll say enough is enough eventually, and I think we've already passed that point. Stuck with him for a while longer though.
DeSantis won by less than 20k votes. There is no way this shitshow doesn't prompt a big turnout yo oust him. Then we can expect more stolen election claim bullshit.
It might be worth noting that Florida has consecutive term limits for their governor (for now, anyway.) Desantis can't run again this next election. (He can for the one after that, though.)
Um...no. DeSantis won reelection by the largest margin in Florida in 40 years. He's wildly popular, or at least was as of a couple years ago.
I was ignorant enough to support this kind of crap when I was younger. It's never too late to turn your life around; please stop voting for these people.
Conservatives rant about the left "indoctrinating" kids to be gay or trans, but this shit is literal indoctrination. It's fucking alarming. Like, normally I'd say stay the fuck outta places like Florida or Texas but at this point we need more liberals sent out to even out these psychos.
Every accusation by a Conservative is admission of guilt
I still want to know where the pizza place is.
The pizza place was the friends we made along the way
It’s hard when it starts at such a young age. I had it at home, church, and school. I didn’t start to change my thinking until my mid thirties, and even then it was painful because your entire reality starts to shatter.
It's hard, painful, necessary, work. Which is four reasons most people avoid it. Thanks for fighting that fight.
It worries me to see others encouraging people to gtfo of those states because of these crazy laws, but I think that’s exactly what these politicians want. That way they will guarantee certain states to always be red during elections. But at the same time, how could you blame anyone for wanting to leave? It’s fucked up.
My dumbass moved to Florida last year and I'm sure as shit going to try and do my best to push back against these Nazis.
Universities in other states need to loudly proclaim they will not accept Florida high school graduates fed this horseshit. "Does not meet prerequisites for higher education." You want to be Confederate Jesusland? Fine, but there's a cost. Employers need to do the same thing.
That's only going to hurt the kids who want out of that shithole state. They didn't choose to grow up there. And even if it's comparable to a hyper religious private school education, colleges aren't blanket denying students from those, same with homeschool kids. It may be necessary to offer remedial classes, but colleges are already doing that for math.
The kids will already be hurt … It’s a question of acknowledgment or if other institutions decide to ignore their deficiencies. (And, in admitting them, risk others students being subjected to their brainwashed viewpoints)
That sort of happens anyway. Kids taught creationism get laughed out of Biology 101 and have to spend some semesters passing Bio for Boneheads, where they unlearn all the creation myths and get a truth bath of evolution.
US History is important for poly sci majors and law majors, so yeah some might have to make sure they can pass exams or explain how we were late among western nations to end slavery (and use truck systems, exploitation of new immigrants and child labor to keep the ill-gotten flavor in our gains.)
And we need to make that process of getting kids who need it that basic foundational education as easy and cheap as possible. I would say the best thing we could do is make sure they have the opportunity to be de-programmed as soon as they are adults.
Or at the very least require a bunch of remedial training classes
This is actually a terrifying prospect that would only make the situation worse. The kids stuck there and being educated in this propaganda are the ones who will need higher education the most! It is not their fault their parents are living there. And while some parents may have a choice in the matter, many do not as relocating in the U.S. is very expensive and impractical for some families.
I actually feel like the opposite is needed - that public universities go out of their way to accept kids who were educated in Florida in the hopes of actually being able to educate them and break the cycle that is currently feeding this wave of fascism.
We have a while before we have to worry about those kids actually getting to college. What needs to happen now is the colleges proclaiming this. Make a big stink about it. Talk about remedial education requirements for Florida graduates. Across lots of states. Embarrass the hell out of the state. Set requirements that Florida public school graduates have to take an entire years worth of remedial education in college. Suddenly mom and dad looking at that bill will start to flip out.
Look at what happened to North Carolina when they tried to pass their bathroom bill, way before all the current crop of anti-trans laws. Stuff got cancelled. Events pulled out. Businesses proclaimed their objections, made public grumblings about risking expansion in the state. There was actual damage and cost, and North Carolina nixed the whole thing. Look at what's happening in the culture wars now. Nothing. It's become noise. Next week Wisconsin will declare an open hunting season on Muslims or something, and everybody will yawn. They've successfully numbed us to this shit, and until large entities start pushing back, until there are real tangible costs to the states pulling this shit, it will keep happening.
Yeah, ungood to trap Florida kids in an echo chamber. It’s the reverse. We want them to leave and see a bigger world.
I absolutely see your point and agree with you. The unfortunate part is that by the time these kids graduate from highschool they have been indoctrinated. The ones I would be the most worried about aren't going to college anyways. There should be sanctions from the rest of the country that discourages people from moving there in the first place. Sanctions that discourage having kids there. If you want a family with children then get the fuck out. Help those people get the fuck out. You're right that we need to undoctrinate the older ones. That won't be as affective as just stopping people going there in the first place.
we shouldn’t be a dictator to other Americans however i understand the sentiment. The bill will get wrapped up in courts, or it should.
Bruh you suggest literally discriminating Texans?
I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. These high school graduates from Florida didn't choose to live in Florida. They didn't choose to be educated this way. So not letting them into universities is discrimination and will only make things worse. If they were let into universities, they could see how Florida taught them wrongly.
Their parents chose to live there, chose to give their kids poor education, and chose to elect people to do exactly what DeSantis is doing. And they've been making that choice for decades now. They can damn well live with the consequences.
Not all parents really choose to live in a place like Florida. Sometimes they have to go where the jobs are. Maybe they can't afford a place like California. And remember there are more people in Florida who voted for Biden than in Massachusetts.
And sometimes they are living there and simply cannot afford to relocate. Relocating is very expensive in the U.S., especially if you want to relocate to an area that has better education.
That's some nonsense. Not everyone can up and move so easily. Don't punish people for the acts of jackasses like DeSantis.
Guess what happens if no one ever gets upset about their politicians doing stupid shit. It never changes.
Consequences tend to piss people off, hopefully enough to stop voting for fascists.
The parents aren't the kids, and it's wrong to punish the kids for their parents actions. I am from Florida. I grew up there. I used college to get out. I'm trans and I'd probably be dead if I hadn't left. Even when I was in school there was "lost cause" Daughters of the Confederacy bullshit snuck in the curriculum. Just because they try to brainwash the kids doesn't mean they succeed. And I doubt they will, the internet makes that very difficult. And just because it's in the curriculum doesn't mean teachers won't push back - most of them will. The kids who want out of Florida will be a self selected group who probably already got a better history education through Wikipedia than was offered in school and know that what they were taught was either incomplete or bullshit. This is why general education requirements in college exist - they address what the student may have missed in high school for one reason or another.
Great, you got out, and now there's one less voter in Florida trying to stop the stupid shit. I guess the gop plan to chase left wingers out of their states is working.
I can't slap stupid parents upside the head any more. Apparently it's illegal or some shit. So the best I can do is loudly laugh when they're victimized by their own fucked up choices.
Beleaf systems like that are almost desigmed to screw people over.
Edit: Thats too brief of an explanation, im tires and will bed.
Because Ronald Reagan convinced America that knowing things isn't important, and that any opinion is valid regardless of how much of a dipshit you are.
Goddamn, that motherfucker sure did a number on U.S. politics.
Conservatives have always been conservatives. Reagan just made the abject narcissism palatable for the masses. He told us it's OK if you're uninformed and selfish, because you're too important to care about other people or things. Family, and business, and American Exceptionalism, those things are more important than human rights, equitable working compensation, humanitarian aid, or the survival of the species. Things should make sense at the kitchen table, regardless of how complex the problems might be. You can trust Reagan, because he's an actor, so you know he's always being his genuine, likeable self.
There's a secret competition between government officials to see who can set up the most difficult material for a game of "Real news or Onion story?" that's really getting out of hand. Southern states have comfortably secured their continuing dominance of the leaderboard and are mostly fighting among themselves for the coveted #1 spot.
It seems like they push this kind of stuff to normalize it, so when they do less overt fucked up shit, no one bats an eye.
Among the malicious actors, there's "regular" people caught up in this, and this sort of behavior is all they know, and anything else is shunned, woke, liberal crap.. That's sad to me, how much of a product of environment we can be, and how that trait of ours is abused by POS people like the ones in power. I guess it's self fulfilling. Can't fight something(racism bigotry etc) when it's all you know.
It's surreal that this kind of stuff is happening, and becoming more obviously malicious.
Republicans control their legislature.
Because despite appearances that are put on, the main bulk of republicans and democrats are really not very far apart. A show is created around culture war which is really not particularly cared about by either of them while the core interests that they both share - exploiting the people and maintaining the class war in favour of the bankers, hedgefunds and financial elite - are ultimately kept secure.
Until the well-meaning liberals that continually give the benefit of the doubt to democrats wise up to this and radicalise into something further left the lack of opposition to the right will continue. Meanwhile the few dedicated and ideologically motivated actual-fascists that do get power, such as in Florida, will get to wield that power however the fuck they want as long as it isn't affecting the economic interests of the previously mentioned groups belonging to the wealthy ruling class.
An enormous amount of power exists to prevent or oppose all the things that have been happening lately. The issue is ultimately an unwillingness to do it.
This is nonsense. There's a massive difference between Republicans and Democrats.
The main issue is that Republicans are, more often than not, pieces of shit who never argue in good faith, while Democrats try to act with the higher morale ground, when they really should be pushing harder against the Republican bullshit.
Just look at their goals and agendas. What do Republicans even stand for besides bending over for money and being against "woke" culture? Sure, there are Democrats who are money whores too, but compare the two groups overall.
As someone that votes left, your comment still reads like someone that has faith in their representatives.
Are republicans trash? Yes.
But don’t, for a second, believe democrats are “of a higher moral ground”. They are human, and they are therefore just as capable of being shitbags as anyone else.
Not trying to be pessimistic, just realistic: 99% of these people are monsters that don’t give a shit if you live or die.
The main issue is that Republicans are, more often than not, pieces of shit who never argue in good faith, while Democrats try to act with the higher morale ground, when they really should be pushing harder against the Republican bullshit.
This right here is the problem. Democrats let republicans do their thing. In other words, they're complicit. That's why people point out they're really not all that different. Yes, there are differences and 10 times out of 10 I will vote for them over republicans, but I won't fool myself into thinking it'll actually make a significant change. At best I can expect a pause in the republican freight train of bullshit.
I'd have chimed in myself, but you said it better than I would have.
Stupid culture war bullshit is, in its entirety, a distraction to keep those getting fucked the hardest from checking to see who's doing the fucking. The fucking is indeed done by both parties on behalf of the wealthy.
It would be fine if they were actually waging a real conflict, but neither want to do anything more than a performance as security for their economic interests.
This has allowed actual fascists to come in and wage one properly and the result is that they get everything they want. And it's the marginalised who are paying for it, trans people the most.
I'm not saying that culture war shouldn't be waged, ultimately what I'm saying is that it's only being waged by the fascists. Everyone else(with power) is doing absolutely fuck all. This has caused some significant problems within leftist circles as well, as some people have taken to completely opposing any "id politics" entirely because they see it as a distraction. Lenin also opposed this, stating that all issues should be fought, not purely the economic issue:
Is it true that, in general,[3] the economic struggle “is the most widely applicable means” of drawing the masses into the political struggle? It is entirely untrue. Any and every manifestation of police tyranny and autocratic outrage, not only in connection with the economic struggle, is not one whit less “widely applicable” as a means of “drawing in” the masses. The rural superintendents and the flogging of peasants, the corruption of the officials and the police treatment of the “common people” in the cities, the fight against the famine-stricken and the suppression of the popular striving towards enlightenment and knowledge, the extortion of taxes and the persecution of the religious sects, the humiliating treatment of soldiers and the barrack methods in the treatment of the students and liberal intellectuals — do all these and a thousand other similar manifestations of tyranny, though not directly connected with the “economic” struggle, represent, in general, less “widely applicable” means and occasions for political agitation and for drawing the masses into the political struggle? The very opposite is true. Of the sum total of cases in which the workers suffer (either on their own account or on account of those closely connected with them) from tyranny, violence, and the lack of rights, undoubtedly only a small minority represent cases of police tyranny in the trade union struggle as such. Why then should we, beforehand, restrict the scope of political agitation by declaring only one of the means to be “the most widely applicable”, when Social-Democrats must have, in addition, other, generally speaking, no less “widely applicable” means? -Lenin | What is to be Done?
The problem of course is that liberals do jack shit to actually genuinely fight these other issues. The only real opposition to the fascists genuinely waging this war is coming from those waving the red flag or the black flag.
What the actual fuck??? Seriously, Florida?
On brand for Conservatives
How is critical race theory banned, but this shit is allowed?
This is a rhetorical question. I know the answer...
Critical Race Theory is a requirement to get a law degree at most colleges. It was never taught below that level. What conservatives called CRT was actually American History.
wooooo slavery 2 : the sequel /s
Ahh yes Florida, please teach me how slavery was such a beneficial thing for my race.
I’m sure the millions of slaves that were forced to work in fields without pay, murdered, raped, and were threatened just for wanting equal rights would agree with you.
Obvious /s
It's about time the dang whites just confronted history and muster the courage to say, "you're welcome"
/S
In all seriousness European expansionism had more to do with nature and the domesticated animals than anything else. Anyone that thinks race had anything to do with European success is wrong.
Race had nothing to do with it? They were considered animals because of the color of their skin. Where's all the millions of white European slaves that were stacked on boats like cattle?
If you're arguing from an environmental determinist POV like I assume @YoBuckStopsHere is, then the racism is a post-facto rationalization of the global dominance that Europeans stumbled into as a result of their geography, climate, and local fauna. I don't think he meant it as an excuse for racism, he just didn't adequately summarize the thesis of Guns, Germs, and Steel before flippantly referring to it.
Guns, Germs, and Steel is pretty widely derided by actual historians and anthropologists, so I wouldn't go putting a lot of weight on that particular book.
Personally I think the criticisms are valid if a bit overstated. Diamond perhaps didn't qualify his claims adequately and purported to explain more than he actually could. However, it's certainly worth considering the effect that environment has on societies. I think if you want to argue that European societies broadly had agency in their exploitation of the world, you have to explain how you would expect them to overcome millennia of violence and greed, develop guns and transcontinental sailing ships, then look at Asia and Africa and say "nah, let's leave them alone". So, individuals certainly had agency in whether or not they partook in the rape or bought into the post-facto rationalizations of scientific racism and the like, but societies amalgamate the competing interests of their component parts, and often the worst impulses win out (incidentally, this is the same reason societies "choose" to fail). And then, ask yourself if you think the Han Chinese would have handled it much differently if it had been them instead of the British. Consider the Han Chinese today. People are people, and people are racist.
None of that changes the fact that white people did, in fact, do those things, and in many (all?) cases owe reparations where none have yet been given. Chances are we'll be on to the next atrocious global hegemon long before those reparations ever happen. Maybe we'll figure it out someday.
mfer skimmed the back of a Jared diamond book
Race had nothing to do with European success. I wasn't talking about the slave trade.
Sounds like someone isn't graduating.
- Florida GOP
Jesus fucking christ. Glad my family moved from that shit hole when I was a child.
Defenders of slavery argued that by comparison with the poor of Europe and the workers in the Northern states, that slaves were better cared for. They said that their owners would protect and assist them when they were sick and aged, unlike those who, once fired from their work, were left to fend helplessly for themselves.
The "personal benefit" is a type of welfarist argument. As in the slave owners "gave them good lives" and that made it all OK.
Some folks really need to read and discuss George Orwell's book, 1984, and such things as double-speak.
Critical thinking has long departed.
Bold of you to assume the types of people actually, seriously in support of Florida GOP can read half a book without falling in a pit of rage and despair
Next year: "Y'know. We don't say nearly enough about all of good things Hitler did."
We really don't talk enough about his art. Or his literary works. Or his dreams.
We should all be thankful we've made it this far without anyone pushing for genocide against all their non-supporters tbh
It sounds like white Floridians should volunteer to be enslaved.
Sign up for personal benefit!
They don't need saving, silly person.
I think they are now calling it, “non-optionally upskilled “
They should make sure anyone teaching this shit is enslaved for several years for some on the job personal enrichment training before they start.
Let's start by enslaving anyone supporting this policy and ask them after 5 years how beneficial they think it is.
5 years
50 years, and the enslavement of their children and grandchildren - that's my minimum for an experiential evaluation.
Florida is a cursed state that has been lost to Republican and Far-Right whimsy, wow
I was a little suspect of the NAACP memo about it being unsafe for Black people but man this just seals the deal
When they elect their leaders, they aren’t sending their best. They’re sending the racist hateful assholes. The dredges of society.
Scary thought: What if this is the best they can muster? After all, there are plenty on the right who are actively calling for a race war and a Christian, white supremacist theocracy with anyone who isn't white, straight, cisgender, Christian, and male as second class citizens (if those in charge are feeling generous).
Next thing you tell me, Florida is going to have a sponsored showings of Songs of the South.
Is he going after Disney cause they put Sambo in the vault instead of building a statue at the park entrance?
Guys, they weren't slaves. They were just unpaid interns receiving exposure and experience. Promise.
About 15 years ago, I attended a friend's wedding in South Carolina. It was held on a former plantation. The grounds were beautiful and I decided to join a tour of the area.
I quickly noticed that they never referred to "slaves" (and definitely not the more up to date phrase "enslaved people"). Instead, they always talked about "the workers." It was like they wanted you to picture a bunch of employees, voluntarily choosing to work there and being treated with the common decency that employees would be treated with.
Obviously, these weren't "workers." They were slaves. The plantation was trying to whitewash its history to make it seem not as bad as it really was. DeSantis' latest "educational reform" is from the same playbook. Slaves weren't tortured, abused, raped, and sold like property. No, they were just employed individuals who learned valuable life skills from their kind hearted employers! Next lesson: The Tulsa Riot and why the black people of Tulsa were equally responsible for the deaths. (I wish I was joking. That's part of the curriculum also.)
They were just unpaid interns receiving exposure and experience.
Not only that, but all their children would be guaranteed employment, housing, and care. What's not to love (aside from the hard work, beatings, rapes, and total lack of freedom)?
Sure! Tons of exposure. Exposure to the sun, the outside elements, vicious corpal punishment. The list goes on and on!
My teachers were pretty cool and they made sure to refute any positive spins people tried to attribute to slavery. Some kids came in thinking slave owners treated their slaves just like family, and the teachers shut that right down.
I'm worried about the education system. I bet those same teachers would have gotten into trouble for saying that now, being that it is apparently against the curriculum. I always thought that outside media was misleading and that education was supposed to be the truth. Now it seems like education is misleading, and it is a scary scary thing that outside media might be leaned on to learn the truth.
Honestly some of them did. That doesn't mean it's a good thing. I mean have you seen how some people treat their family? But plenty of them were raped abused etc at the hands of their "owners". US founding Fathers. I'm looking at you.
My family members are allowed to leave if they don't want to be around me. Slaves, not so much.
While that's true to a point. It's not as meaningful. Technically slaves could run away too. People who are abused often find themselves trapped by things a lot of people who haven't experienced it can't imagine. It all seems so simple from the outside looking in. But it rarely ever is.
Yeah those runaways that were caught were either killed or made an example of with public torture. Runaways decided that between existing in slavery, being killed on the spot, being tortured, or maybe getting away was worth the risk. It was that bad that they risked everything. I can only imagine the bravery that was needed to decide.
They certainly did. And many children and young adults that seek to get away from abusive parents end up getting put back into the same abuse of situations and killed / tortured too. But we're getting out in the weeds. And the downvoted circle jerk seems to imply that people are looking to be offended. Not have a discussion of any sort. Not that I ever tried to justify what Florida is doing I disagree with it intensely.
I think the issue with the downvotes is because you said that slaves could just run away. It comes across like you are simplifying the problem. I don't want to assume that's what was intended, it just doesn't come across well. And, you are correct that modern times still have similar corruption. I just hope society on average understands why it's not okay compared to back then.
It's not that I'm trying to simplify the problem. It's that they're trying to be outraged and looking for something to justify it. It's uncontroversial to say slaves could run away. The runaway/fugitive slave act were written to address it. The underground railroad to facilitate it.
My whole point initially, that being treated like family by a bunch of authoritarian, rape enablers. Isn't the flex Republicans think it is. Everything else is comparable. Yes being considered property is worse than being family to an abuser. Well unless you were female and basically treated as property not all that many decades ago. Both are bad neither are good. But y'all wanna be outraged and see things that aren't there. So have fun.
I was taught the standard American Exceptionalism package in the 1970s-1980s which included full throated endorsement of American Imperialism spreading of freedom to undeveloped nations in exchange for sweet deals on their labor and resources.
In the 90s I started figuring out they were lying to me all this time, when I was a credulous child.
And now I hold a bit of a grudge.
So maybe we can expect the next generation of Floridians to emerge knowing their own society gives them not a single fuck.
I was a victim of the central Florida school system up to 8th grade in 96...I'm glad I finished school in the Mid-Atlantic region. Florida FUCKING sucks, and I have to say I'm kind of impressed at how terrible it continues to be.
As someone who knows several teachers in Florida, the kids do not give a single fuck either. Wonder where they learned that from
When is the Desantis Youth being formed?
Not surprising. I had some cousins in Florida who were taught in school that the south "technically" won the war. They never could quite explain it, but absolutely believed it.
The South kinda did win in many ways. The North basically gave up on Reconstruction.
Even today, our Union basically gives outsized political power to the South and former Slave states.
Yes the one state known for its very respectable public education in the US. I do feel bad for the students who without their knowledge, are being indoctrinated into fascist beliefs without even knowing. Let's talk about it. Let's not frame it like genocide is ever acceptable. Let's talk about how humans were tortured and killed out of curiosity and especially hate. Dehumanized animals subjected to things torturers would love to try themselves. To those people who want to keep doing it, you're on the chopping block too
At least cunts can be useful, good-looking and they may bring joy to those who interact with them. The nicest thing I can say about DeSantis is that there's plenty of horrible stuff he hasn't done yet as far as we know.
As the old saying goes, he lacks the depth and warmth.
Florida should just be removed from the rest of the US and continue to exist as an isolated island for assholes.
This may be one positive side effect of global warming.
Unfortunately due to Florida's topography the peninsula will just shrink. So rather than an island, sea level rise will just push Floridan refugees north.
So conservatives should be very gung ho about enforcing border protection from this southern border.
Never to late to build another canal...I feel the shipping in the gulf of Mexico would benefit from a shorter route to the eastern ports.
My hope is that because this is such an obvious, stupid lie, it'll inspire kids to question all of the other stuff in their history books too; even blue-state schools teach ridiculous lies about American history, my kids got all sorts of upbeat hokum about Columbus I had to correct them on.
I've met many shall I call them hopeful "job creators" that think by paying minimum wage it brings people out of poverty. They can be convinced of anything.
Florida is rough man. People really enjoy waking up being hateful and ignorant here. I'm glad my parents took the time to teach me Black history outside of school hours.
I'm not American but I've been reading up on American history. This is reminiscent of the propaganda that said slavery taught black people to be hardworking and discouraged laziness, which was in line with Christian values at the time. Is that correct?
It sounds about right. (That it lines up with the propaganda, I mean. Not the propaganda itself.) Republicans hate the truth of history that white people owned black people as slaves and treated them horribly. They don't hate it because it was a travesty, though. They hate it because they are racist and see teaching proper history as an attempt to make them "feel bad for being white."
So they push back with their own version of history where all slave owners were kind hearted fellows who helped those poor black folks that didn't have any jobs. Republicans want to twist history to make heroes out of the white slave owners.
Of course Florida would do this, they're part of the "Mark of Cain" south.
That is: Southern Preachers maintained the horrific canon that black slaves would only survive as subservient to their white masters, because god had marked them. This is a big part of all the separations of churches during the civil war.
Next: being a literal corporate slave benefits you with a hovel, scraps, and beating to maintain character!
Wow that is seriously messed up.
This clown has been in the news for a lot of stupid shit recently, but this is going too far. What the fucking fuck is happening? This isn’t even funny, it’s like a few steps away from trying bring back human slavery (which I’m sure the supreme court would have no problem with)
And the sad part is that DeSantis has no chance of getting elected as president. Nobody likes him and his hideous white boots. He’s probably doing stuff like this out of spite/malice.
it’s like a few steps away from trying bring back human slavery (which I’m sure the supreme court would have no problem with)
Undoubtedly, since slavery is still allowed in the constitution.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Emphasis mine.
Yeah the next logical step for Desatan is getting rid of prisons and opening work camps, with indentured servants.
If at some point Trump gets charges that keep him from being the GOP headrunner, we'll likely see Fox news turn to pushing Desantis in the other 49 states. He very quickly could turn into being liked by many Republicans
Need people from the GOP to start calling him out in hopes we can get people to hate him enough that even if Trump bows out neither are there
There aren’t really any good examples provided of what the article alleges, but I 100% believe this. I am dumbfounded that the people flinging “snowflake” as an insult has done all this to make sure their kids never feel bad for actions perpetrated by white US citizens. Of course, like anything else, it has nothing to do with their kids and everything to do with their own discomfort at facing reality or blatant racism. Frustrating stuff.
If you follow the links in the article, you can get to the actual curriculum itself. Scroll for a while and you'll find this...
SS.68.AA.2.3 - Examine the various duties and trades performed by slaves (e.g., agricultural work, painting, carpentry, tailoring, domestic service, blacksmithing, transportation).
Benchmark Clarifications:
Clarification 1: Instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.
And frankly, it's not inaccurate. Slaves who worked as artisans were sometimes able to make money independently and even buy their own freedom from masters who allowed it. The absolute atrocity of the triangle trade and chattel slavery is not diminished by a lucky few, of course. The benefit of the skilled craftsmanship of enslaved people overwhelmingly went to their masters.
Thanks! Poor reading by myself. I appreciate it. Really based stuff. Thanks, Florida.
🤷♂️ It all depends on how the individual district & teacher implement it, of course. I'm not sure I trust Florida public schools to discuss that in a balanced way...
Florida is a shithole state. There will never be enough tax breaks to offset the Taliban-like human rights suppression that Republicans apparently require.
He knows "Meatball" wasn't intended as aspirational, right?
Is "meatball" a reference to someone?
For a time DeSantis was called “Meatball Ron.”
Isn't that why Song of the South got banned?
Is this in reference to one curriculum change about a 1920s massacre to include that there were blacks and whites killing blacks instead of whites killing blacks?
And then the benefit thing, is that an extrapolation from that change?
Article was a bit shit.
They put it in quotes, as if they were quoting something. Yet there is no citation for it. Very strange.
Was it the whipping part? /s
??? Seriously
Somebody tell me there's additional context of some sort. This seems very odd.
Do they mean black African slave traders?
There is no additional context. Republicans don't want to stop being racist, and teaching children that slavery was bad makes them less likely to be tolerant of racism.
That's no additional context. This is a tiny step removed from "they weren't slaves, they were just employees" historical revisionism.
Another part of the curriculum says that teachers need to specify that, while some white people might have caused racially motivated massacres, black people were to blame as well. The Tulsa race riot? It wasn't the fault of the white people who slaughtered all those black people. No, according to Florida's new curriculum, the black people who were slaughtered were responsible also.
The context is that it's true, but only in a limited number of cases. Many African craftsmen were brought here, and many others were apprenticed to white craftsmen here. The vast majority saw the fruits of their labor stolen for the benefit of their masters, but a lucky few were able to make money and in rare cases even buy their own freedom.
Slavery is a complex subject and you have to remember the slaves were strong, smart individuals who would have been constantly trying to make the best of their situations. The fact that some of them had some success in forging their own paths doesn't mean the triangle trade & chattel slavery were any less horrific or criminal.
Frankly, the curriculum reported on is perfectly acceptable, and the reporting is disingenuous. Whether Florida schools will teach it in a balanced way is an entirely different question.
This is one reason why government run schools are a bad idea. There's an incentive for stupidity to be taught as fact for political gain.
Do you really think private schools in Florida would be less racist?
I think education would be better if politicians had nothing to do with it.
But corporations are okay?
I suppose if we're being honest with ourselves, one benefit was getting to leave Africa and come to America. There seems to be a lot of people out here dying to illegally cross our borders.
Holy shit this is stupid. These people were forcibly taken from their homes, stacked like wood in the holds of ships where many of them died, then treated worse than animals when they got here. So no, that wasn't a benefit.
Sounds like you're from Florida though
No I'm just being provocative for the sake of conversation.
Overall I think their generational offspring's lives are likely "improved" compared to maybe the similar generations who remained in their homeland these days.
However, those that were slaves definitely suffered a very unjust and horrific existence that is inexcusable.
No I’m just being provocative for the sake of conversation.
The activity you just described is called "trolling."
I'm not sure I agree with you.
No I'm just being provocative for the sake of conversation.
Also known as "being an asshole"
Man, you must be a lot of fun to be around...
Seeing your replies to this and other comments, it's clear you are loving all this attention. Classic troll behavior. Fuck directly off.
Trolls are the stupid person's idea of an intellectual
There has to be some validity to a point for it to be provocative. You've utterly failed there.
Funny difference here is though that slaves were kidnapped and sold, had no choice in the matter.
This benefit is akin to force someone into hard labour and then start selling getting calluses as a ‘benefit’. Your welcome. Absurd of course.
For sure absurd. I'm just being provoking for the sake of conversation.
Being a troll doesn't provoke "conversation." It's a dead end with people just calling you an asshole.
I mean, when you converse with highly reactionary and closed minded people, yeah. But having these types of conversations and exploring uncomfortable topics is actually very healthy for society. Censorship and pearl clutching tends to be regressive.
No one is censoring you. Your opinion is there for all to read. The consensus of the conversation seems to be that it was a bad one.
Fuck you.
AKA being an internet edge lord
Whatever label helps your mind avoid total shutdown is fine with me.
You're really doubling down on your stupidity, aren't you?
You're allowed to think whatever you want.
You're a cool dude :)
How is that a benefit? They were slaves taken from their homes not immigrants.
And even if they were immigrants, how is becoming a slave a good thing in any way?
They were taken hostage by African Tribes, sold to the Dutch, put on ships, shipped to North and South America, and forced into slavery. I don't think you can compare that to migrants fleeing to Canada, who are trapped south of the United States border.
Yeah it must have been really great to get kidnapped from your home and family and forcibly sold into slavery, shipped from one undeveloped country to another undeveloped country. Stop with this nonsense - there is nothing good about slavery. Period. Done. End of story. Absolutely sickening. Pure evil.
Yeah what luck! America in 1619, with its gleaming cities and endless opportunities - every African aspired to be a member of those huddled masses yearning to breathe enslaved!
How about this, what if the millions of black people that were brought over to the states, instead remained in Africa and built it to be a prominent and thriving nation.
If it wasn’t for black slaves building the U.S. one could argue that it wouldn’t be where it is today.
Yeah it's not like ruining a country, you know, ruins a country. Who would think that.
This is so vile I just gasped involuntarily. I hope someday you feel an ounce of shame, sheesh.
Yeah I'm sure the thousands of people who died in the hulls of slave ships, chained in place in their own piss and shit and sick, hungry and afraid, really appreciated the chance to come to America where the streets are paved with gold. You fucking moron.
The America they were forced to come to was vastly different from the one we live in today. How would that be better than where they already lived? How would someone benefit from being ripped from their family and support system and dropped in an undeveloped country to do forced labor?
At a certain point, eventually, the voters in Florida have to say enough is enough, right?
Can a state be majority racist, homophobic, anti woman and pro ignorance forever? Is that what 51% of Floridians really want?
If it’s anything like Ohio it doesn’t matter what the majority wants. The republicans have drawn the maps so that they can control everything even with like 45% of the vote
At the very least it shouldn't get them a republican governor.
Maps don't, but vote suppression does
Maps absolutely do as does vote suppression. It can be both
Sorry, this was specifically about gubernatorial elections - unless you have some sort of weird state electoral college thing (which IIRC only exists in Mississippi and even there only sort-of), those are generally done with a statewide popular vote, and thus independent of district maps.
By creating barriers in certain districts it's going to disproportionally going to affect those people, for example long lines, changing someone's voting district, removing someone's registration. There are tons of ways.
Right. Voter suppression. That's what they said.
They could just change the state constitution to allow state legislature to appoint the governor.
the Florida state constitution requires a statewide vote to approve an amendment with 60% of the vote. If they couldn't get a governor elected they couldn't amend the constitution either.
All they need is to suppress votes for one election and they'll have control over the state forever.
Voters in Florida saying “That’s enough racism” is like me at the Olive Garden saying “That’s enough parmesan”. It’s never gonna happen without severe civil unrest.
Olive Garden gives me civil unrest.
Olive Garden gives me unrest and the result is not civil.
Your comment made me giggle on this lovely Thursday in July. Thanks friend.
Fascism is an ideology that rewards people for being the worst version of themselves.
With every evil act they perform they feel better about themselves. These people are just getting started.
It's what 40% of them want...they can buy the other 11%.
Who controls the past controls the future.
Who controls the present now, controls the past.
I recognise RATM when I read it 🤘 🤘 🤘 🤘 🤘
This reminds me about that time Frank Burns learns about time zones.
FL is literally filled with huge amount of morons from all over the country as a retirement haven. Rotten scumbags from all the other states.
DeSantis' approval rating has fallen off a cliff, and is continuing to fall, albeit more slowly.
So likely yes, they'll say enough is enough eventually, and I think we've already passed that point. Stuck with him for a while longer though.
DeSantis won by less than 20k votes. There is no way this shitshow doesn't prompt a big turnout yo oust him. Then we can expect more stolen election claim bullshit.
It might be worth noting that Florida has consecutive term limits for their governor (for now, anyway.) Desantis can't run again this next election. (He can for the one after that, though.)
Um...no. DeSantis won reelection by the largest margin in Florida in 40 years. He's wildly popular, or at least was as of a couple years ago.
https://www.wuft.org/news/2022/11/08/desantis-wins-2022-florida-governors-race-by-largest-margin-in-40-years/
Not sure how you got <20k when he won by more than 1.5 million
Oh my sweet summer child...
It takes effort to educate yourself. Far too many people are happy to be comfortably dumb.
I was ignorant enough to support this kind of crap when I was younger. It's never too late to turn your life around; please stop voting for these people.
Conservatives rant about the left "indoctrinating" kids to be gay or trans, but this shit is literal indoctrination. It's fucking alarming. Like, normally I'd say stay the fuck outta places like Florida or Texas but at this point we need more liberals sent out to even out these psychos.
Every accusation by a Conservative is admission of guilt
I still want to know where the pizza place is.
The pizza place was the friends we made along the way
It’s hard when it starts at such a young age. I had it at home, church, and school. I didn’t start to change my thinking until my mid thirties, and even then it was painful because your entire reality starts to shatter.
It's hard, painful, necessary, work. Which is four reasons most people avoid it. Thanks for fighting that fight.
It worries me to see others encouraging people to gtfo of those states because of these crazy laws, but I think that’s exactly what these politicians want. That way they will guarantee certain states to always be red during elections. But at the same time, how could you blame anyone for wanting to leave? It’s fucked up.
My dumbass moved to Florida last year and I'm sure as shit going to try and do my best to push back against these Nazis.
Universities in other states need to loudly proclaim they will not accept Florida high school graduates fed this horseshit. "Does not meet prerequisites for higher education." You want to be Confederate Jesusland? Fine, but there's a cost. Employers need to do the same thing.
That's only going to hurt the kids who want out of that shithole state. They didn't choose to grow up there. And even if it's comparable to a hyper religious private school education, colleges aren't blanket denying students from those, same with homeschool kids. It may be necessary to offer remedial classes, but colleges are already doing that for math.
The kids will already be hurt … It’s a question of acknowledgment or if other institutions decide to ignore their deficiencies. (And, in admitting them, risk others students being subjected to their brainwashed viewpoints)
That sort of happens anyway. Kids taught creationism get laughed out of Biology 101 and have to spend some semesters passing Bio for Boneheads, where they unlearn all the creation myths and get a truth bath of evolution.
US History is important for poly sci majors and law majors, so yeah some might have to make sure they can pass exams or explain how we were late among western nations to end slavery (and use truck systems, exploitation of new immigrants and child labor to keep the ill-gotten flavor in our gains.)
And we need to make that process of getting kids who need it that basic foundational education as easy and cheap as possible. I would say the best thing we could do is make sure they have the opportunity to be de-programmed as soon as they are adults.
Or at the very least require a bunch of remedial training classes
This is actually a terrifying prospect that would only make the situation worse. The kids stuck there and being educated in this propaganda are the ones who will need higher education the most! It is not their fault their parents are living there. And while some parents may have a choice in the matter, many do not as relocating in the U.S. is very expensive and impractical for some families.
I actually feel like the opposite is needed - that public universities go out of their way to accept kids who were educated in Florida in the hopes of actually being able to educate them and break the cycle that is currently feeding this wave of fascism.
We have a while before we have to worry about those kids actually getting to college. What needs to happen now is the colleges proclaiming this. Make a big stink about it. Talk about remedial education requirements for Florida graduates. Across lots of states. Embarrass the hell out of the state. Set requirements that Florida public school graduates have to take an entire years worth of remedial education in college. Suddenly mom and dad looking at that bill will start to flip out.
Look at what happened to North Carolina when they tried to pass their bathroom bill, way before all the current crop of anti-trans laws. Stuff got cancelled. Events pulled out. Businesses proclaimed their objections, made public grumblings about risking expansion in the state. There was actual damage and cost, and North Carolina nixed the whole thing. Look at what's happening in the culture wars now. Nothing. It's become noise. Next week Wisconsin will declare an open hunting season on Muslims or something, and everybody will yawn. They've successfully numbed us to this shit, and until large entities start pushing back, until there are real tangible costs to the states pulling this shit, it will keep happening.
Yeah, ungood to trap Florida kids in an echo chamber. It’s the reverse. We want them to leave and see a bigger world.
I absolutely see your point and agree with you. The unfortunate part is that by the time these kids graduate from highschool they have been indoctrinated. The ones I would be the most worried about aren't going to college anyways. There should be sanctions from the rest of the country that discourages people from moving there in the first place. Sanctions that discourage having kids there. If you want a family with children then get the fuck out. Help those people get the fuck out. You're right that we need to undoctrinate the older ones. That won't be as affective as just stopping people going there in the first place.
we shouldn’t be a dictator to other Americans however i understand the sentiment. The bill will get wrapped up in courts, or it should.
Bruh you suggest literally discriminating Texans?
I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. These high school graduates from Florida didn't choose to live in Florida. They didn't choose to be educated this way. So not letting them into universities is discrimination and will only make things worse. If they were let into universities, they could see how Florida taught them wrongly.
Their parents chose to live there, chose to give their kids poor education, and chose to elect people to do exactly what DeSantis is doing. And they've been making that choice for decades now. They can damn well live with the consequences.
Not all parents really choose to live in a place like Florida. Sometimes they have to go where the jobs are. Maybe they can't afford a place like California. And remember there are more people in Florida who voted for Biden than in Massachusetts.
And sometimes they are living there and simply cannot afford to relocate. Relocating is very expensive in the U.S., especially if you want to relocate to an area that has better education.
That's some nonsense. Not everyone can up and move so easily. Don't punish people for the acts of jackasses like DeSantis.
Guess what happens if no one ever gets upset about their politicians doing stupid shit. It never changes.
Consequences tend to piss people off, hopefully enough to stop voting for fascists.
The parents aren't the kids, and it's wrong to punish the kids for their parents actions. I am from Florida. I grew up there. I used college to get out. I'm trans and I'd probably be dead if I hadn't left. Even when I was in school there was "lost cause" Daughters of the Confederacy bullshit snuck in the curriculum. Just because they try to brainwash the kids doesn't mean they succeed. And I doubt they will, the internet makes that very difficult. And just because it's in the curriculum doesn't mean teachers won't push back - most of them will. The kids who want out of Florida will be a self selected group who probably already got a better history education through Wikipedia than was offered in school and know that what they were taught was either incomplete or bullshit. This is why general education requirements in college exist - they address what the student may have missed in high school for one reason or another.
Great, you got out, and now there's one less voter in Florida trying to stop the stupid shit. I guess the gop plan to chase left wingers out of their states is working.
I can't slap stupid parents upside the head any more. Apparently it's illegal or some shit. So the best I can do is loudly laugh when they're victimized by their own fucked up choices.
Beleaf systems like that are almost desigmed to screw people over.
Edit: Thats too brief of an explanation, im tires and will bed.
Edit: lol, beleaf
eye twitching
I pray the green leaf 🙏
Why is this being allowed to happen?
Because Ronald Reagan convinced America that knowing things isn't important, and that any opinion is valid regardless of how much of a dipshit you are.
Goddamn, that motherfucker sure did a number on U.S. politics.
Conservatives have always been conservatives. Reagan just made the abject narcissism palatable for the masses. He told us it's OK if you're uninformed and selfish, because you're too important to care about other people or things. Family, and business, and American Exceptionalism, those things are more important than human rights, equitable working compensation, humanitarian aid, or the survival of the species. Things should make sense at the kitchen table, regardless of how complex the problems might be. You can trust Reagan, because he's an actor, so you know he's always being his genuine, likeable self.
There's a secret competition between government officials to see who can set up the most difficult material for a game of "Real news or Onion story?" that's really getting out of hand. Southern states have comfortably secured their continuing dominance of the leaderboard and are mostly fighting among themselves for the coveted #1 spot.
It seems like they push this kind of stuff to normalize it, so when they do less overt fucked up shit, no one bats an eye.
Among the malicious actors, there's "regular" people caught up in this, and this sort of behavior is all they know, and anything else is shunned, woke, liberal crap.. That's sad to me, how much of a product of environment we can be, and how that trait of ours is abused by POS people like the ones in power. I guess it's self fulfilling. Can't fight something(racism bigotry etc) when it's all you know.
It's surreal that this kind of stuff is happening, and becoming more obviously malicious.
Republicans control their legislature.
Because despite appearances that are put on, the main bulk of republicans and democrats are really not very far apart. A show is created around culture war which is really not particularly cared about by either of them while the core interests that they both share - exploiting the people and maintaining the class war in favour of the bankers, hedgefunds and financial elite - are ultimately kept secure.
Until the well-meaning liberals that continually give the benefit of the doubt to democrats wise up to this and radicalise into something further left the lack of opposition to the right will continue. Meanwhile the few dedicated and ideologically motivated actual-fascists that do get power, such as in Florida, will get to wield that power however the fuck they want as long as it isn't affecting the economic interests of the previously mentioned groups belonging to the wealthy ruling class.
An enormous amount of power exists to prevent or oppose all the things that have been happening lately. The issue is ultimately an unwillingness to do it.
This is nonsense. There's a massive difference between Republicans and Democrats.
The main issue is that Republicans are, more often than not, pieces of shit who never argue in good faith, while Democrats try to act with the higher morale ground, when they really should be pushing harder against the Republican bullshit.
Just look at their goals and agendas. What do Republicans even stand for besides bending over for money and being against "woke" culture? Sure, there are Democrats who are money whores too, but compare the two groups overall.
As someone that votes left, your comment still reads like someone that has faith in their representatives.
Are republicans trash? Yes.
But don’t, for a second, believe democrats are “of a higher moral ground”. They are human, and they are therefore just as capable of being shitbags as anyone else.
Not trying to be pessimistic, just realistic: 99% of these people are monsters that don’t give a shit if you live or die.
This right here is the problem. Democrats let republicans do their thing. In other words, they're complicit. That's why people point out they're really not all that different. Yes, there are differences and 10 times out of 10 I will vote for them over republicans, but I won't fool myself into thinking it'll actually make a significant change. At best I can expect a pause in the republican freight train of bullshit.
I'd have chimed in myself, but you said it better than I would have.
Stupid culture war bullshit is, in its entirety, a distraction to keep those getting fucked the hardest from checking to see who's doing the fucking. The fucking is indeed done by both parties on behalf of the wealthy.
It would be fine if they were actually waging a real conflict, but neither want to do anything more than a performance as security for their economic interests.
This has allowed actual fascists to come in and wage one properly and the result is that they get everything they want. And it's the marginalised who are paying for it, trans people the most.
I'm not saying that culture war shouldn't be waged, ultimately what I'm saying is that it's only being waged by the fascists. Everyone else(with power) is doing absolutely fuck all. This has caused some significant problems within leftist circles as well, as some people have taken to completely opposing any "id politics" entirely because they see it as a distraction. Lenin also opposed this, stating that all issues should be fought, not purely the economic issue:
The problem of course is that liberals do jack shit to actually genuinely fight these other issues. The only real opposition to the fascists genuinely waging this war is coming from those waving the red flag or the black flag.
What the actual fuck??? Seriously, Florida?
On brand for Conservatives
How is critical race theory banned, but this shit is allowed?
This is a rhetorical question. I know the answer...
Critical Race Theory is a requirement to get a law degree at most colleges. It was never taught below that level. What conservatives called CRT was actually American History.
wooooo slavery 2 : the sequel /s
Ahh yes Florida, please teach me how slavery was such a beneficial thing for my race.
I’m sure the millions of slaves that were forced to work in fields without pay, murdered, raped, and were threatened just for wanting equal rights would agree with you.
Obvious /s
It's about time the dang whites just confronted history and muster the courage to say, "you're welcome"
/S
In all seriousness European expansionism had more to do with nature and the domesticated animals than anything else. Anyone that thinks race had anything to do with European success is wrong.
Race had nothing to do with it? They were considered animals because of the color of their skin. Where's all the millions of white European slaves that were stacked on boats like cattle?
If you're arguing from an environmental determinist POV like I assume @YoBuckStopsHere is, then the racism is a post-facto rationalization of the global dominance that Europeans stumbled into as a result of their geography, climate, and local fauna. I don't think he meant it as an excuse for racism, he just didn't adequately summarize the thesis of Guns, Germs, and Steel before flippantly referring to it.
Guns, Germs, and Steel is pretty widely derided by actual historians and anthropologists, so I wouldn't go putting a lot of weight on that particular book.
https://www.livinganthropologically.com/archaeology/guns-germs-and-steel-jared-diamond/
Personally I think the criticisms are valid if a bit overstated. Diamond perhaps didn't qualify his claims adequately and purported to explain more than he actually could. However, it's certainly worth considering the effect that environment has on societies. I think if you want to argue that European societies broadly had agency in their exploitation of the world, you have to explain how you would expect them to overcome millennia of violence and greed, develop guns and transcontinental sailing ships, then look at Asia and Africa and say "nah, let's leave them alone". So, individuals certainly had agency in whether or not they partook in the rape or bought into the post-facto rationalizations of scientific racism and the like, but societies amalgamate the competing interests of their component parts, and often the worst impulses win out (incidentally, this is the same reason societies "choose" to fail). And then, ask yourself if you think the Han Chinese would have handled it much differently if it had been them instead of the British. Consider the Han Chinese today. People are people, and people are racist.
None of that changes the fact that white people did, in fact, do those things, and in many (all?) cases owe reparations where none have yet been given. Chances are we'll be on to the next atrocious global hegemon long before those reparations ever happen. Maybe we'll figure it out someday.
mfer skimmed the back of a Jared diamond book
Race had nothing to do with European success. I wasn't talking about the slave trade.
Sounds like someone isn't graduating.
- Florida GOP
Jesus fucking christ. Glad my family moved from that shit hole when I was a child.
For those who don't know:
"The Southern Argument for Slavery"
Here: https://www.ushistory.org/us/27f.asp
PDF: https://www.allenisd.org/cms/lib/TX01001197/Centricity/Domain/1919/The%20Southern%20Argument%20for%20Slavery.pdf
NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/1859/01/19/archives/the-abolition-of-slavery.html
The "personal benefit" is a type of welfarist argument. As in the slave owners "gave them good lives" and that made it all OK.
Some folks really need to read and discuss George Orwell's book, 1984, and such things as double-speak.
Critical thinking has long departed.
Bold of you to assume the types of people actually, seriously in support of Florida GOP can read half a book without falling in a pit of rage and despair
Next year: "Y'know. We don't say nearly enough about all of good things Hitler did."
We really don't talk enough about his art. Or his literary works. Or his dreams.
We should all be thankful we've made it this far without anyone pushing for genocide against all their non-supporters tbh
It sounds like white Floridians should volunteer to be enslaved.
Sign up for personal benefit!
They don't need saving, silly person.
I think they are now calling it, “non-optionally upskilled “
They should make sure anyone teaching this shit is enslaved for several years for some on the job personal enrichment training before they start.
Let's start by enslaving anyone supporting this policy and ask them after 5 years how beneficial they think it is.
50 years, and the enslavement of their children and grandchildren - that's my minimum for an experiential evaluation.
Florida is a cursed state that has been lost to Republican and Far-Right whimsy, wow
I was a little suspect of the NAACP memo about it being unsafe for Black people but man this just seals the deal
When they elect their leaders, they aren’t sending their best. They’re sending the racist hateful assholes. The dredges of society.
Scary thought: What if this is the best they can muster? After all, there are plenty on the right who are actively calling for a race war and a Christian, white supremacist theocracy with anyone who isn't white, straight, cisgender, Christian, and male as second class citizens (if those in charge are feeling generous).
Next thing you tell me, Florida is going to have a sponsored showings of Songs of the South.
Is he going after Disney cause they put Sambo in the vault instead of building a statue at the park entrance?
Guys, they weren't slaves. They were just unpaid interns receiving exposure and experience. Promise.
About 15 years ago, I attended a friend's wedding in South Carolina. It was held on a former plantation. The grounds were beautiful and I decided to join a tour of the area.
I quickly noticed that they never referred to "slaves" (and definitely not the more up to date phrase "enslaved people"). Instead, they always talked about "the workers." It was like they wanted you to picture a bunch of employees, voluntarily choosing to work there and being treated with the common decency that employees would be treated with.
Obviously, these weren't "workers." They were slaves. The plantation was trying to whitewash its history to make it seem not as bad as it really was. DeSantis' latest "educational reform" is from the same playbook. Slaves weren't tortured, abused, raped, and sold like property. No, they were just employed individuals who learned valuable life skills from their kind hearted employers! Next lesson: The Tulsa Riot and why the black people of Tulsa were equally responsible for the deaths. (I wish I was joking. That's part of the curriculum also.)
Not only that, but all their children would be guaranteed employment, housing, and care. What's not to love (aside from the hard work, beatings, rapes, and total lack of freedom)?
Sure! Tons of exposure. Exposure to the sun, the outside elements, vicious corpal punishment. The list goes on and on!
My teachers were pretty cool and they made sure to refute any positive spins people tried to attribute to slavery. Some kids came in thinking slave owners treated their slaves just like family, and the teachers shut that right down.
I'm worried about the education system. I bet those same teachers would have gotten into trouble for saying that now, being that it is apparently against the curriculum. I always thought that outside media was misleading and that education was supposed to be the truth. Now it seems like education is misleading, and it is a scary scary thing that outside media might be leaned on to learn the truth.
Honestly some of them did. That doesn't mean it's a good thing. I mean have you seen how some people treat their family? But plenty of them were raped abused etc at the hands of their "owners". US founding Fathers. I'm looking at you.
My family members are allowed to leave if they don't want to be around me. Slaves, not so much.
While that's true to a point. It's not as meaningful. Technically slaves could run away too. People who are abused often find themselves trapped by things a lot of people who haven't experienced it can't imagine. It all seems so simple from the outside looking in. But it rarely ever is.
Yeah those runaways that were caught were either killed or made an example of with public torture. Runaways decided that between existing in slavery, being killed on the spot, being tortured, or maybe getting away was worth the risk. It was that bad that they risked everything. I can only imagine the bravery that was needed to decide.
They certainly did. And many children and young adults that seek to get away from abusive parents end up getting put back into the same abuse of situations and killed / tortured too. But we're getting out in the weeds. And the downvoted circle jerk seems to imply that people are looking to be offended. Not have a discussion of any sort. Not that I ever tried to justify what Florida is doing I disagree with it intensely.
I think the issue with the downvotes is because you said that slaves could just run away. It comes across like you are simplifying the problem. I don't want to assume that's what was intended, it just doesn't come across well. And, you are correct that modern times still have similar corruption. I just hope society on average understands why it's not okay compared to back then.
It's not that I'm trying to simplify the problem. It's that they're trying to be outraged and looking for something to justify it. It's uncontroversial to say slaves could run away. The runaway/fugitive slave act were written to address it. The underground railroad to facilitate it.
My whole point initially, that being treated like family by a bunch of authoritarian, rape enablers. Isn't the flex Republicans think it is. Everything else is comparable. Yes being considered property is worse than being family to an abuser. Well unless you were female and basically treated as property not all that many decades ago. Both are bad neither are good. But y'all wanna be outraged and see things that aren't there. So have fun.
I was taught the standard American Exceptionalism package in the 1970s-1980s which included full throated endorsement of American
Imperialismspreading of freedom to undeveloped nations in exchange for sweet deals on their labor and resources.In the 90s I started figuring out they were lying to me all this time, when I was a credulous child.
And now I hold a bit of a grudge.
So maybe we can expect the next generation of Floridians to emerge knowing their own society gives them not a single fuck.
I was a victim of the central Florida school system up to 8th grade in 96...I'm glad I finished school in the Mid-Atlantic region. Florida FUCKING sucks, and I have to say I'm kind of impressed at how terrible it continues to be.
As someone who knows several teachers in Florida, the kids do not give a single fuck either. Wonder where they learned that from
When is the Desantis Youth being formed?
Not surprising. I had some cousins in Florida who were taught in school that the south "technically" won the war. They never could quite explain it, but absolutely believed it.
The South kinda did win in many ways. The North basically gave up on Reconstruction.
Even today, our Union basically gives outsized political power to the South and former Slave states.
Yes the one state known for its very respectable public education in the US. I do feel bad for the students who without their knowledge, are being indoctrinated into fascist beliefs without even knowing. Let's talk about it. Let's not frame it like genocide is ever acceptable. Let's talk about how humans were tortured and killed out of curiosity and especially hate. Dehumanized animals subjected to things torturers would love to try themselves. To those people who want to keep doing it, you're on the chopping block too
Desantis is a cunt.
At least cunts can be useful, good-looking and they may bring joy to those who interact with them. The nicest thing I can say about DeSantis is that there's plenty of horrible stuff he hasn't done yet as far as we know.
As the old saying goes, he lacks the depth and warmth.
Florida should just be removed from the rest of the US and continue to exist as an isolated island for assholes.
This may be one positive side effect of global warming.
Unfortunately due to Florida's topography the peninsula will just shrink. So rather than an island, sea level rise will just push Floridan refugees north.
So conservatives should be very gung ho about enforcing border protection from this southern border.
Never to late to build another canal...I feel the shipping in the gulf of Mexico would benefit from a shorter route to the eastern ports.
My hope is that because this is such an obvious, stupid lie, it'll inspire kids to question all of the other stuff in their history books too; even blue-state schools teach ridiculous lies about American history, my kids got all sorts of upbeat hokum about Columbus I had to correct them on.
I've met many shall I call them hopeful "job creators" that think by paying minimum wage it brings people out of poverty. They can be convinced of anything.
Florida is rough man. People really enjoy waking up being hateful and ignorant here. I'm glad my parents took the time to teach me Black history outside of school hours.
I'm not American but I've been reading up on American history. This is reminiscent of the propaganda that said slavery taught black people to be hardworking and discouraged laziness, which was in line with Christian values at the time. Is that correct?
It sounds about right. (That it lines up with the propaganda, I mean. Not the propaganda itself.) Republicans hate the truth of history that white people owned black people as slaves and treated them horribly. They don't hate it because it was a travesty, though. They hate it because they are racist and see teaching proper history as an attempt to make them "feel bad for being white."
So they push back with their own version of history where all slave owners were kind hearted fellows who helped those poor black folks that didn't have any jobs. Republicans want to twist history to make heroes out of the white slave owners.
Of course Florida would do this, they're part of the "Mark of Cain" south.
That is: Southern Preachers maintained the horrific canon that black slaves would only survive as subservient to their white masters, because god had marked them. This is a big part of all the separations of churches during the civil war.
Next: being a literal corporate slave benefits you with a hovel, scraps, and beating to maintain character!
Wow that is seriously messed up.
This clown has been in the news for a lot of stupid shit recently, but this is going too far. What the fucking fuck is happening? This isn’t even funny, it’s like a few steps away from trying bring back human slavery (which I’m sure the supreme court would have no problem with)
And the sad part is that DeSantis has no chance of getting elected as president. Nobody likes him and his hideous white boots. He’s probably doing stuff like this out of spite/malice.
Undoubtedly, since slavery is still allowed in the constitution.
Emphasis mine.
Yeah the next logical step for Desatan is getting rid of prisons and opening work camps, with indentured servants.
If at some point Trump gets charges that keep him from being the GOP headrunner, we'll likely see Fox news turn to pushing Desantis in the other 49 states. He very quickly could turn into being liked by many Republicans
Need people from the GOP to start calling him out in hopes we can get people to hate him enough that even if Trump bows out neither are there
There aren’t really any good examples provided of what the article alleges, but I 100% believe this. I am dumbfounded that the people flinging “snowflake” as an insult has done all this to make sure their kids never feel bad for actions perpetrated by white US citizens. Of course, like anything else, it has nothing to do with their kids and everything to do with their own discomfort at facing reality or blatant racism. Frustrating stuff.
If you follow the links in the article, you can get to the actual curriculum itself. Scroll for a while and you'll find this...
And frankly, it's not inaccurate. Slaves who worked as artisans were sometimes able to make money independently and even buy their own freedom from masters who allowed it. The absolute atrocity of the triangle trade and chattel slavery is not diminished by a lucky few, of course. The benefit of the skilled craftsmanship of enslaved people overwhelmingly went to their masters.
Thanks! Poor reading by myself. I appreciate it. Really based stuff. Thanks, Florida.
🤷♂️ It all depends on how the individual district & teacher implement it, of course. I'm not sure I trust Florida public schools to discuss that in a balanced way...
Florida is a shithole state. There will never be enough tax breaks to offset the Taliban-like human rights suppression that Republicans apparently require.
He knows "Meatball" wasn't intended as aspirational, right?
Is "meatball" a reference to someone?
For a time DeSantis was called “Meatball Ron.”
Isn't that why Song of the South got banned?
Is this in reference to one curriculum change about a 1920s massacre to include that there were blacks and whites killing blacks instead of whites killing blacks?
And then the benefit thing, is that an extrapolation from that change?
Article was a bit shit.
They put it in quotes, as if they were quoting something. Yet there is no citation for it. Very strange.
Was it the whipping part? /s
??? Seriously
Somebody tell me there's additional context of some sort. This seems very odd.
Do they mean black African slave traders?
There is no additional context. Republicans don't want to stop being racist, and teaching children that slavery was bad makes them less likely to be tolerant of racism.
That's no additional context. This is a tiny step removed from "they weren't slaves, they were just employees" historical revisionism.
Another part of the curriculum says that teachers need to specify that, while some white people might have caused racially motivated massacres, black people were to blame as well. The Tulsa race riot? It wasn't the fault of the white people who slaughtered all those black people. No, according to Florida's new curriculum, the black people who were slaughtered were responsible also.
The context is that it's true, but only in a limited number of cases. Many African craftsmen were brought here, and many others were apprenticed to white craftsmen here. The vast majority saw the fruits of their labor stolen for the benefit of their masters, but a lucky few were able to make money and in rare cases even buy their own freedom.
Slavery is a complex subject and you have to remember the slaves were strong, smart individuals who would have been constantly trying to make the best of their situations. The fact that some of them had some success in forging their own paths doesn't mean the triangle trade & chattel slavery were any less horrific or criminal.
Frankly, the curriculum reported on is perfectly acceptable, and the reporting is disingenuous. Whether Florida schools will teach it in a balanced way is an entirely different question.
This is one reason why government run schools are a bad idea. There's an incentive for stupidity to be taught as fact for political gain.
Do you really think private schools in Florida would be less racist?
I think education would be better if politicians had nothing to do with it.
But corporations are okay?
I suppose if we're being honest with ourselves, one benefit was getting to leave Africa and come to America. There seems to be a lot of people out here dying to illegally cross our borders.
Holy shit this is stupid. These people were forcibly taken from their homes, stacked like wood in the holds of ships where many of them died, then treated worse than animals when they got here. So no, that wasn't a benefit.
Sounds like you're from Florida though
No I'm just being provocative for the sake of conversation.
Overall I think their generational offspring's lives are likely "improved" compared to maybe the similar generations who remained in their homeland these days.
However, those that were slaves definitely suffered a very unjust and horrific existence that is inexcusable.
The activity you just described is called "trolling."
I'm not sure I agree with you.
Also known as "being an asshole"
Man, you must be a lot of fun to be around...
Seeing your replies to this and other comments, it's clear you are loving all this attention. Classic troll behavior. Fuck directly off.
Trolls are the stupid person's idea of an intellectual
There has to be some validity to a point for it to be provocative. You've utterly failed there.
Funny difference here is though that slaves were kidnapped and sold, had no choice in the matter.
This benefit is akin to force someone into hard labour and then start selling getting calluses as a ‘benefit’. Your welcome. Absurd of course.
For sure absurd. I'm just being provoking for the sake of conversation.
Being a troll doesn't provoke "conversation." It's a dead end with people just calling you an asshole.
I mean, when you converse with highly reactionary and closed minded people, yeah. But having these types of conversations and exploring uncomfortable topics is actually very healthy for society. Censorship and pearl clutching tends to be regressive.
No one is censoring you. Your opinion is there for all to read. The consensus of the conversation seems to be that it was a bad one.
Fuck you.
AKA being an internet edge lord
Whatever label helps your mind avoid total shutdown is fine with me.
You're really doubling down on your stupidity, aren't you?
You're allowed to think whatever you want.
You're a cool dude :)
How is that a benefit? They were slaves taken from their homes not immigrants.
And even if they were immigrants, how is becoming a slave a good thing in any way?
They were taken hostage by African Tribes, sold to the Dutch, put on ships, shipped to North and South America, and forced into slavery. I don't think you can compare that to migrants fleeing to Canada, who are trapped south of the United States border.
Yeah it must have been really great to get kidnapped from your home and family and forcibly sold into slavery, shipped from one undeveloped country to another undeveloped country. Stop with this nonsense - there is nothing good about slavery. Period. Done. End of story. Absolutely sickening. Pure evil.
Yeah what luck! America in 1619, with its gleaming cities and endless opportunities - every African aspired to be a member of those huddled masses yearning to breathe enslaved!
How about this, what if the millions of black people that were brought over to the states, instead remained in Africa and built it to be a prominent and thriving nation.
If it wasn’t for black slaves building the U.S. one could argue that it wouldn’t be where it is today.
Yeah it's not like ruining a country, you know, ruins a country. Who would think that.
This is so vile I just gasped involuntarily. I hope someday you feel an ounce of shame, sheesh.
Yeah I'm sure the thousands of people who died in the hulls of slave ships, chained in place in their own piss and shit and sick, hungry and afraid, really appreciated the chance to come to America where the streets are paved with gold. You fucking moron.
The America they were forced to come to was vastly different from the one we live in today. How would that be better than where they already lived? How would someone benefit from being ripped from their family and support system and dropped in an undeveloped country to do forced labor?