Why stand in line to board an airplane?
The seats are assigned. People have been standing in line for 15 minutes now. Why on earth would anyone want to stand there, when they could just sit and wait until the line clears?
I understand wanting to get off a plane ASAP, but boarding? You just end up sitting on the plane, waiting for everyone else to get on.
The seats are assigned, the baggage compartments are self-serve.
A long time ago most airlines checked at least one bag free. I used to always do this and as op suggests, not stand in line. It was great not having to take a bag through security and haul it around through airports and connecting flights, and avoid the stress of if the overhead space would run out.
But airlines have done everything in their power to make boarding and the whole flying process miserable in attempt to suck every dollar they can from you for their upgrades and priority boarding.
I do often take advantage of the airlines offer to "we expect a very full flight, overhead space is limited, and will check your bag for free to your final destination"
Yup at this point I call that a free checked bag. Oh no... Out of space? Guess I'll just have to be the hero and ditch my bag...
Sidenote people who do things like throw their coats up there when they've announced there is limited space are dicks.
Free ? With the new Ryan air policy, it's not free anymore
That's how they run out of volunteers and need to pick tribute like Hunger Games.
im 6+ feet tall, where is the coat going if not the overhead? what’s in your bag, a coat?
Yes. The overhead is for the carry-on bags. If there is space after everyone has gotten on the plane, then go for it, throw the coat up there. But if you use overhead space for a coat when they announce that space is limited and you see them forcing people to check bags, then that's a jerk move for sure.
I pack my coat in my bag. If it doesn't fit, I wear it on the plane. If that doesn't work, then it's time to start thinking about checking a bag from the start.
oh, they'll check my coat now? every time i ask they say it's for bags.
wearing the coat for an 8 hour flight works if you're staying in the same climate but I travel longitudily a lot.
i like how you skirted around your own bullshit rule by putting your coat in a bag.
I.. put my coat inside my bag. Whether a carry-on or checked. Even if I go to a cold climate I will have my bags before I walk outside the terminal. I can stop, open my bag, and grab my coat. I don't know how that's skirting around it.
If you don't want to wear it, cool - then put it in your carry-on or hold it for the flight. At the very least wait until everyone has boarded and there is room. Taking up space in the overhead while people are still boarding is selfish, it's saying "My bag and my coat deserve more space than the next person's single bag".
Coats take space in the overhead whether they're in a bag or not.
If you don't need your coat to board the plane then you're lucky.
None of the airlines have a rule about coats in the overhead so you're fighting on a hill that doesn't even exist.
I never said anyone had a rule about it. I said if you have 2 things, a bag and a coat, and you take up two spots when other people don't get 1, then it's a jerk move.
and then wait for the baggage at the other end? no thanks! carry on luggage I get to walk straight out no waiting
We've largely done this to ourselves. The cheapest price is king in air travel. Unless you're traveling for work, everyone goes for the cheapest option, so airlines are incentivized to get the base price as low as possible. Like if the option was to pay $100 more and get 2 checked bags, a meal, and more legroom, I'm still not going to do it.
The price of air travel has come down astronomically over the past few decades.
And massively increased again in the last five years…
Mainly due to the pilot shortage and collapse of the business market. If you want to start adding back items that were debundled from tickets, overall ticket prices are just going to increase.
It's depending whether you need check bags. As soon as you need check bags, suddently, main airlines becomes competitive with cheap ones like Ryanair, especially considering the airport they desserve which tend to be better located (The difference between a Metro ticket for the main one, and a 20 € Shuttle bus to a remote one also impacts the total price
Now they've even started offering this at the check-in counter! Critically it's after the "pay us $35 to check your bag" screen. It says it's a one time special offer but I've done it a half dozen times now on American and twice on United. Bag just is supposed to be carry on sized. I don't even have to take it through security when this option is available.
I just flew with 2 kids and 4 carry ons. We had to go to the service desk to check 2 car seats anyway, so I asked the lady if we could gate check our carry ons while we were there. They did it free of charge. I don't know if all airlines/ airports will do it, but Delta did. It was super convenient to not have to lug around 4 bags through security and around the airport/ layover airport while chasing 2 kids. Unfortunately, I'm flying United back who only allows a "personal item" so I'm assuming that's not going to be an option on my return flight.
Delta AMEX offers a "free" checked bag on domestic flights.
I didn't realize this factor until I started traveling with my wife, who packs much more than me. I've always fit everything into a single personal item that goes under the seat, which has always meant casually reading a book until my zone is nearly finished boarding
Also now i go from a medium checked bag with plenty of space to a large bag half full of her stuff and weighing it at home to make sure its under 30kg or whatever the limit is.
And methods have been worked out to load passengers smoothly and efficiently. Alternate sides, every other row, if I recall correctly, leaves plenty of space and time. But nobody uses this.
these methods don't account for all the variables that reality has. People across all boarding groups will be late, there will be people that need assistance from flight attendants, there will be people who want to switch seats to be near their family, there will be people who can't sit in the exit row, there will be people who need to use the rest room, there will be people who've never been on a plane before.
There is no great, full proof way to handle it because people are unpredictable
“The plane is here, everyone get on” (random order) is actually faster than the method they use now, so it wouldn’t take some complex system to increase speeds.
That's essentially what Southwest Airlines does. No assigned seats, just a boarding group and number for "controlled" self-service boarding.
Too bad you end up in a Southwest plane after all that. I flew them once, in the extra room seat (I’m a tall bastard) and there has apparently been 600 lb life people using the seat before, it was like sitting on an old wicker chair that had blown out.
One of the worst flights I’ve had.
Idk, i like Southwest. It's cheap and you get two free checked bags without having to sacrifice your human dignity flying Spirit. Grantdd i never have to fky for work, only ever for personal trips
It’s a practical, demonstrative example of scarcity. It causes people to act internally rational, even though there are far more efficient methods.
No the most recent conclusion is random works best if the participants are "normal". Any strategy about this seat or that row first requires trained participants to maximize that effort.
But you can fit your hand-luggage under the seat in front
That fact doesn’t do you much good if you have a carry-on. And most everyone is trying to get by with a carry-on and a personal bag to avoid checked bag fees.
Isn't "carry on" just the American name for "hand luggage"? As in you're only getting one free bag which has to be small enough to fit under the chair anyway, right?
No, the carry-on is a piece of luggage that can be stored in the overhead compartment (assuming there’s room, hence the waiting in line). In addition you can bring a personal item (backpack/purse). It’s those bags being put up top as well where the dick moves come in since, on a full flight, there’s not enough space up there and the passengers who boarded before you have put BOTH their carry-on and personal item up there.
I see you've not had the pleasure of traveling with Sleazyjet before!
At the cost of leg room.
You can bend your legs under the chair? Obviously I'm exaggerating but I don't think it really takes away that much of the tiny amount of leg room you get anyway!
With the backpack I have, I do lose a good part of my leg space from having my backpack underneath the seat in front of me. That's why I sometimes pull my backpack out and then set it down in front of me, but not underneath the seat in front of me; this lets me stretch/move my legs more than before.
Maybe you can, I need that space for feet.
I don't know how people can stand putting an item under the seat in front of them. I'm not even tall and I sure as hell need that space for my feet.
I will always do everything in my power to NOT check a bag and have them lose it. So I bring a roller bag and a backpack.
I always check my bag and haven't had any go missing in nearly 15 years. It's a lot better with the bar-coded tags and automation.
Lucky. I stopped checking bags when the baggage handlers stole from my locked suitcase.
Wish I had your luck. I've had issues three times with checked bags in the last 15 years.
Limited overhead space. If you wait, you increase the chance there won't be room for your overhead bag.
The real answer. I sometimes have a laptop in my carry on. I'll be fucked if I'm going to hand it over to the savages on the tarmac.
If you have it in a backpack you can put it under the seat in front of you unless you're in a front seat or one next to an overwing emergency exit.
This is all officially allowed and I've used it plenty of times.
Bags on the floor take what little space there is for my feet.
Once I'm in the air my backpack goes from under the seat to under my knees. Then I can stick my feet under the seat for that extra few inches of stretch. It's not a whole lot but it does help.
True, it can be a tradeof, depending on the length of one's legs.
A lot of airlines nowadays seem to charge extra for a carry on than they do a checked bag. So I tend to bring one checked bag and one small backpack that can fit under the seat, which isn't classified as a carry on.
Yup yup, carry on and personal item. You can live for a week out of that. Plus no wait at the baggage claim, and no risk of the airline stealing or breaking your stuff.
It's illegal to put a lithium battery in your checked luggage anyway.
*over a percentage of weight or wh rating
That's only for cabin luggage. In checked luggage, Lithium Ion batteries are completely banned. If a battery bursts into flames in the cabin, it can be handled with hopefully minimal damage. You do not want that to happen in the belly of the plane packed in closely between everyone else's luggage with no way of getting it contained until the planes lands.
Well no because it depends on the airline.
I just checked an airline (Lufthansa) and they allow it for checked luggage up to 100Wh though do not recommend it.
Anything 100-160wh requires a permit from Lufthansa.
Interesting, that seems kinda unsafe to me. The one I checked was Ryanair, they fully prohibit batteries in checked luggage
No, it doesn't depend on the airline. In the US, the TSA banned all lithium batteries in checked baggage:
https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/items/lithium-batteries-more-100-watt-hours
No that is saying all spare uninstalled batteries
Here is it talking about built in
https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/portable-electronic-devices-with-batteries
Sounds like it is ok as long as they are powered off.
I read that page too. They also say:
So it's not "ok", but they probably don't want to deal with arresting people for it.
Yeah but at the end it said
So it seems like they would prefer them to be on a carry-on but there isn't a rule against it.
Okay, I am willing to argue:
German Luftfahr Bundesamt (Federal Airfare) allows up to 100Wh of Li-Ion in checked baggage: https://www.lba.de/DE/Luftfahrtunternehmen/Gefahrgut/Passagierinformation/Passagiergepaeck/Elektronische_Geraete.html
Both hand and checked baggage:
Anything else you wanna argue is not true?
Also Lufthansa: Baggage battery restrictions.pdf
And Eurowings: Restrictions dangerous goods
Condor prohibits anything more than a smartphone: Condor restrictions
Anyway I think I made my point: It depends on the airline.
So go check with them if you travel!
Overhead bin space for carry-on bags.
As someone who travels with carry-on only (as much as possible), if I'm in economy I make sure to board as soon as I can to ensure there's space in the overhead bins for my bag.
Man, I hate traveling carry-on only (unless it's a short enough trip that the required change of clothes can fit in a backpack). I'll pay the $50 or whatever it is to not have to worry about needing to cram all my stuff up into the overheads.
It isn't about price. In fact some airlines are starting to charge more for a carry-on.
I'm also really good at bringing less. I travel months at a time with carry on only.
Plus, once you land at your destination you just grab your bag and go. There is no waiting at the baggage carasoul, you beat some of the rush too.
I guess part of my different perspective is that 99% of my flight travels are for work, and I'm paid by the hour, even on days when I'm doing nothing but traveling.
How about waiting for fuckin ever for a checked bag? I think I've waited 40+ minutes for a checked bag before. Not only does it suck to wait after a day or traveling but you also get to have anxiety that your bag might be lost as you continually watch people you recognize from your flight take their bags and go
Oh yeah, forgot to list that one. Some airports are terrible for it too.
For sure! The Rome airport is probably the worst I've seen
As annoying as it is to lug a bag around and find room for it, I much prefer this to checking it. There’s the small but nonzero chance your bag doesn’t make it to your destination, plus the added time waiting at baggage return.
Yeah I avoid checking bags if I have a layover. Direct flight? Eh it's pretty hard to fuck up then, still absolutely can, but harder. Going to a destination I hate checking because I'm eager to get going, coming home it's just another 15-20 minutes waiting for my bag usually, so I don't care.
I used to wait until the last minute to board, until the time I had to put my carry on bag at the back of the plane and my personal item under the seat and ended up being the last person off. One of the more uncomfortable flights I've been on.
Yeah I kind of get this but at the same time, it's rare I have an issue finding a spot for my bag very near my seat. I've always been of the same attitude as OP
Great, if that works for you! I've seen plenty of people have to check their carry-ons. I'll gladly get on before you to ensure my overhead space.
So as luck would have it, yesterday this bit me haha
I was one of the first few forced to check my bag at the gate. Then, also, my bag was waiting for me at the kiosk when I got there which feels very rare. I feel like I usually have to wait at least 10 minutes any time I check a bag. So I guess I both did and didn't learn my lesson? Lol
I get that it's a hassle to find overhead space late, but I've never been in a situation where there wasn't anywhere at all to put my bag. At the very least, the flight crew can usually put it aside somewhere.
Granted, I haven't flown US domestic in years, so the nightmare might be worse than I imagine.
I flew around 26 times domestically last year and most of the flights ran out of space. It's really common for the airline to ask for volunteers to check their carry-ons. If you aren't in the first 2/3rds of people on the plane, you'll likely be forced to check your carry-ons.
This problem has gotten worse over the years because airlines have increased the prices for checking your luggage so many people opt to bring carry-ons instead.
That's awful.
But you can fit your hand-luggage under the seat in front
Carry-on is not the same as personal item. My backpack does not fit under 90% of seats, and if it did, I would have nowhere to put my feet, thus the importance of finding overhead space.
I've not known any airlines that let you bring on hand luggage that's too big to go under the chairs so consider yourself lucky to even have that!
Two reasons:
I always take window seats, and don't really want to hop over someone to get to my seat.
And it also means I don't have to fight for overhead space for my carry-on.
This is the reason.
No, that is the solution. The reason is that airlines intentionally plan with too little overhead space to save money.
How does that save money? It's not like they have to leave their bags behind if the overhead space is gone. It just gets checked instead.
I don't know about saving money, but around here airlines have been creeping up checked bag fees for years. You used to get one free checked bag but when they started charging for all checked bags people started trying to fit thier entire vacation worth of stuff into carry-on. The bags I see people trying to fit into the overhead now are huge and just barely fit in the compartment on smaller planes. The airlines know what's up though since they'll charge for checked bags but then announce repeatedly before the flight that they're looking for volunteers to check their carry-on to its final destination for free. I actually saw one airline enforce the carry-on sizing device as people were boarding and forced any oversize bags to be checked. A lot of unhappy people that day.
I've never been charged to check my bag at the gate.
I've really never minded gate-checking, and when I travel alone (i.e. for work), I travel light and try to cram everything into a larger carryon and gate check it.
The biggest bottleneck on the way out is waiting at baggage claim. Gate checked bags are returned to you at the tarmac or at the end of the PBB, and sometimes they are there waiting for you before you even get to it, making it the quickest way out of the airport.
Surprised no one mentioned this, but carry-on bags are no longer free for all - only free for the first ones in line.
People who use up more than their third of the locker, forcing others out of their own space are subhuman.
I donno, I think airlines that cram in more seats without increasing overhead storage are subhuman.
why not both?
Cause it shouldn't be the customers responsibility to accommodate other customers, it's the airline's responsibility.
Ah yeah I do agree with that. I was partially referencing the meme, but also there’s those kind of people who would inconsiderately take up others’ space until the airline made them move. There’s enough to be annoyed at both! :P
True, agreed!
Because passangers neither have control over locker size nor knowledge of it.
Both. Both is good.
The gate crew often gets graded on how quickly they complete boarding, so don't be surprised when your plane's "full" overhead compartments are half empty. Stupid job metrics strike again.
Oh no I'm literally just talking about when I go to stow my suitcase and some goober with 3 suitcases has filled his entire row and is now cramping mine. You're not special. Check your damn luggage and wait on the carousel like the rest of us!
Lol hadn't thought of it, but not surprised.
Really? I haven't flown in awhile but I always thought if your carry on doesn't fit they will check it for you. Has that changed? Could be different for each airline.
Yep, you're right. If you don't want your carry on checked, then be in the front of the line.
Anxiety (especially now that planes are oversold and standby passengers are nearby waiting to grab empty seats...), the need for overhead bin space, not wanting to have to climb over people, illogical impatience, etc.
Yes, in the US, 14 CFR part 250.7 means that they can't throw you off after you're checked in and your ticket has been scanned at the gate during the boarding process. It was changed by Congress after that doctor got thrown off a United flight in 2017. The airline can still throw you off if you're disruptive, and my understanding is that a pilot in command can order you off for pretty much any reason, as they have full command of the aircraft, so if you're ever in that situation then you better follow the pilot's instructions. But if the pilot does throw you off due to a bumping situation then the airline is breaking the law.
Airlines can also make their own policies on which passengers have the highest priority to get bumped, which can involve check-in time, and I imagine can involve basically who is at the gate, ready to go. So there are some advantages to being there and queuing early.
These same people will all stand up at once the moment the plane stops.. and continue to uncomfortably stand there for like twenty minutes.
On my last flight my gf sprung up and was irritated that I wasn't doing the same. Like where the fuck you going to go? One foot to the left? Just, why? I'm chillin.
I stand up to stretch my muscles, mostly.
You can stand during the flight?
Not if you're in a middle or window seat. It's kinda rude to make one or two people constantly get up and down.
This is why I only book aisle seats. I have more leg room and I can stand up ad sit down quickly without disturbing others in my row.
Short-haul: window seat for the view. Long-haul: aisle seat for the comfort.
Yeah, no. I'll stand up right away, help people around me reach their luggage, along with getting ours down and prepared to roll. Nobody behind me on the plane is going to appreciate it I'm fumbling around with my bags while they're trying to get off.
I will happily defend you on this point. Down vote away people. As long as you don't shove past the rows in front of you or bonk me with luggage, we good. I try to remember the passengers who had to store luggage father back and see if I can get it passed forward. I will totally boss people to sit back down if someone needs to get to the front ASAP due to close connections. If it is going to be a while, I will try to grab my backpack and sit back down.
Now, people with oversized rollerboards? Yeah. I get pretty irritated over that and the vast number of issues that causes with boarding and deplaning. The airlines make it worse with price hikes. I personally check all of my luggage and rarely run into issues. If I have any major concerns I will throw a couple things into a bag that will fit under my seat or FedEx it if we are really going there.
If you have a bag to put in the overhead compartment then you want to get on sooner since the space is limited. I personally only ever take a bag that can go under the seat. I wait until everyone has boarded regardless of my group.
This is the correct answer. If I'm on an overseas holiday I'm usually carrying an extra bag of medication.
If I wait I run the risk of no storage space near me and it getting stored away from me
I'm hard of hearing and terrified of standing in the wrong place at an airport and missing the visual cues to board the flight. Once boarding starts and people start queueing up, I usually get in line because it's helpful to see what everyone in front of me is doing - the order that they hand over paperwork or get carry on double checked. I can't guarantee I'll be able to hear the attendant if they ask me questions at the gate because it's so noisy, so I like to at least feel like I'm prepared.
One time I was flying with crutches and qualified for early pre-boarding because I needed the plane wheelchair (skychair). I sat right next to the gate desk and waited, then I started seeing people queue up so I quickly joined the line, wondering how pre-boarding works when the whole plane of passengers are already vying to be at the front of the line.
I get to the front, the attendant looks at my ticket then after some awkward back and forward eventually I realised they were telling me I'll have to wait till everyone has boarded to get the sky-chair on. I should have come to the desk when pre boarding was announced. I pointed that I was sitting right in front of them... Apparently they were called my name 3 times over the loudspeaker.
Apparently airports can only comprehend one disability at a time (if that!) they knew I was hard of hearing (it's on my ticket) but still thought calling me over the PA was the best way to get the attention of the deaf person sitting 80cm from their desk.
So I sat back down and waited for the line to clear, then I got back up when there were 2 people in line, and after another back and forward I learned that they had tried calling my name again about halfway through boarding because they only had one skychair and it was now or never because the chair had told fly with the other passenger because their arrival airport didn't have a chair, or something, I dunno, anyway I kind of had to crawl down the ailse to get to my chair because in the past I've just used the backs of chairs to swing myself along, but the plane was full so I couldn't do that.
Hard of hearing also. It’s so frustrating that text signs that list announcements are so rare.
Captions on television/movies and games are commonplace, but in the real world, very few places care.
Might be because I’m in a red state for a few more years due to family; blue states likely tend to be more aware of issues like ours.
I did see written callouts of upcoming tram stops once, but I can’t recall which airport. It may have been ORD.
Now I think about it... Map in Elite Dangerous is also helpful for people without hearing.
It’s been a while since I’ve played that. But yes, it’s helpful to see a graphical representation of where noisy things are, as I’m completely deaf in my left ear and can’t locate sounds.
This is a valid reason.
My cousin gets serious panic attacks and had to fly alone. He was so nervous, I had to be on video call to help him at the customer service desk. We worked out for him and he was standing "near" line for about 45 minutes, which was more comforting for him than just waiting in a seat.
Man I once spent three hours in an urgent care waiting room with a really bad ear infection and impacted wax.
Turned out they called me like 6 times in the first hour and I didn't hear it once. They assumed I'd walked out or something.
Wow. Talk about Murphy.
Overhead space. The only upgrade I pay for is boarding group, and I want to maximize my upgrade purchase, so I want to be at the front of group 2.
I only travel with an appropriately sized carry-on but I'm a bit tall so I can NOT have the bag by my feet.
So I want to guarantee I have the overhead right above my seat.
I also generally work on the plane so I can get my laptop and such out easily while standing at my seat, then put my bag up worry free.
This is the answer. Trace it back to the early 2000s when airlines started charging for checked bags. That created an immediate premium for overhead space and kicked off the Boarding Wars we now find ourselves in today, where airlines and passengers alike contort themselves literally and figuratively in an attempt to work around this one massive consequence of corporate greed.
-20 airline professional
I wish there was just seat designations in the overhead. If shit is in my slot, yeet.
I agree. But this would require them to provide adequate space up there for each passenger. They are squeezing seats together so tightly that may no longer be possible.
Bin designs are just now getting to the point where there is something like a 1:1 relationship between passengers and overhead space. Only a small fraction of the flights operating (at least in the US) have these bins, though.
Some of the new Boeing aircraft, as it happens, so it's a trade off..
Also, when you will likely be sitting for 2+ hours, I like to stretch my legs a bit before then. I don't need to sit at my gate for an hour before going into a plane to sit for 3 more hours.
Yup, exactly what I think. So I used to sit in the gate area until the last possible moment until I found out that if you wait too long, they'll give away your seat. Plus since they are charging people for checking luggage through, you have to get that overhead bin before it's gone, unless your carry-on fits in front of you, which it doesn't if you're on a bulkhead. So, now I stand in line, frustrated by that and all the other crap we have to go through when traveling by plane these days. Looking at you TSA.
I was a flight attendant with TWA, so take this as what it is: advice from 20+ years ago.
If all the overhead bins are full they will gate check your bag; tag it, send it down the external stairs of the jetway, and it will go in the belly with the other checked luggage.
Yeah, I thought about that, but I once saw someone bring something too large on the plane and the flight attendant told the person it would have to be checked(at cost). Maybe the guy pissed her off, I don't know.
If their "carry on" does not meet the size restrictions they absolutely will gate check it at cost. That's their fault not listening or reading bag size restrictions orbwillfully ignoring them in hopes of forcing an oversize bag into the overhead.
Yes, this is also true if you board the plane and your luggage doesn't fit (for example, regional flights on a CRJ or ERJ). As long as it's within the airline's policy for carry-ons, they'll gate check it for free.
People are posting a lot of maybe more rational reasons, but I think there's another answer that's more in line with just being a human. Airports suck, air travel, generally, sucks and the whole process is riddle with both intentional and also just unavoidable misery. Every time a new step in the sequence of unpleasant and boring steps that is air travel nears, we start to anticipate it and get anxious to move on to that next step in the process. It doesn't make it faster, it likely only makes the misery arguably worse, but some times people just can't help trying to mentally hasten things even if in reality nothing is hastened at all.
The sooner I get to my seat the sooner I'm out of the god damned airport and can begin whatever escapism I've chosen for the flight. The thing I truly hate is the airport and being in it.
Especially if that "escapism" is sleeping
I wish -- I can't really sleep on flights oddly but I can fall asleep instantaneously almost everywhere else.
For me it's the last chance to stand for a while. If I'm going to be sitting in a cramped seat for 2+ hours then you bet I'm going to be standing before hand. So the if I'm standing then I might as well be in line.
came here today exactly this.
You can stand while the plane is flying?
Yes but that's not ideal for a nervous flyer, or being in a window seat. It's easier to just stand at the airport.
Fair enough.
I’m about to be seated for five hours straight with no possibility of standing or moving around. I’m standing while I still have the opportunity.
Stand, don’t stand, I don’t care. But I’m sitting in the marked disabled seats, with a gate checked walker, and only similarly disabled people or people wrangling little kids are getting on before me, so standing in front of me only tempts me to run into the back of your legs with my walker to bulldoze you out of my way. Leave those of us with extra trouble moving a little space, please!
In general, people should mind their surroundings and those around them just a little bit. So many people find it OK to just stand talking in front of doors, stairs, even escalators.
no doubt. major pet peeve of mine, people enter a building (IE store) and just STOP blocking the entrance. I get you need to get you bearings but step out of the wat to do it!
Overhead space for carry-on bags.
I didn't used too get in line. But I've had a number of times someone took to much carry on (how I don't know) and took all of the overhead space, refused to fix it, and the airline didn't give a fuck either.
This is why I do. I typically just take a small bag for under the seat and a small carry on suitcase. Some people have so much shit, usually after a long flight the last thing you want is to be the last person off the plane because your carry on is 8 rows behind you.
So what you're saying is, I'm indestructible.
Oh, no, no, and in fact, even a slight breeze could be...
Indestructible
Because you do not have assigned overhead bag storage, and people bring either bags that are too big, or bring multiple bags
Exactly. The airlines created this situation when they began charging for check-in bags
Haven't they "solved" it by charging for hand-luggage too?
I rarely sit when waiting for a plane (at least not for maybe an hour before). I'm about to sit for hours, so I don't want to start now.
This right here for me, I'm pretty tall too and can't afford first class so if I'm about to be cramped for 3+ hours I'm gonna stretch my legs first
I'm about to sit down for the next six hours. I'm happy to stand for a bit.
Standing in line brings me joy
Found the Brit.
Why does it seem like everyone in the comment section takes flights all the time? For me, flying on an airplane is for vacations abroad only, and I maybe get 2 flights a year at most. I assume this is one of those US things I'm too Asian to understand.
lots of tech and business people use lemmy, we have to fly often.
Yep.
Used to fly all the time for work.
After that, flying with my wife and kids, or standing in TSA line with the normies who don't know what to do gets incredibly frustrating.
I remember getting stuck behind one Karen who was pissed off she had to toss out a giant bottle of hair conditioner, in like 2017. Like, lady, yeah, it's dumb, but the 311 rule isn't new. Get over yourself.
I live in the US and I consider it unusual to fly more than once every two years.
It really depend on your job.
I know contractors that fly all over the place to get to different jobs and such.
I was flying 4-5 times a year when I worked remotely for a tech company. First few times was neat. I got over it fast. A bunch of cities/airports really suck and treat you like cattle.
We don't have cool trains like you do in many parts of Asia.
And the Asian countries that don't have trains are probably small enough that you still don't really need to fly to get from one side to the other.
Are you under the impression that the US has a bunch of trains that we use constantly? Because we dont.
I wish we did, maybe someday.
Even worse, people have to pay to be in an earlier boarding group. I think they use limited overhead bin space as a hostage.
I'm actually in that group 1 position right now, in a LatAm A320 premium economy seat. Besides the service upgrade and baggage allowance, it's just economy with the center seat reserved. Oh, and free messaging WiFi, too, which somehow includes Lemmy Sync.
CGP Grey has a good video on a better way to board planes.
I know he acknowledges the capitalistic barrier to this solution but the other issue I see most often are folks simply not being there by boarding time. These methods all assume you would have everyone ready to board in their respective groups at once. I would imagine that throwing a few folks out of order in even the modified Steffen approach could bring down the theoretical time by quote a bit.
I like Bill Burrs stance as well
I think the reason people aren't there at their zone's boarding time is because they only print the initial boarding time on the ticket and just wing it after that.
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video
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Relevant CGP Grey
I was just mentioning this to my lady before boarding. I found that video absolutely fascinating.
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I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Because airlines have hiked the cost of checked luggage to absurd levels so a large number of people have roller suitcase carryons. I have a small messenger bag I travel with that's soft-sided and I want to get on early so I can make sure it's over my head in case some asshole tries to cram their bag in over mine.
One airline now charges for carry on. Checking in a small bag is free!
Who is that? I want to give them all my fucking money.
Not all airlines assign seats. I learned this last year. Southwest doesn’t assign seats but you get assigned groups for boarding. You can probably pay for earlier groups but I don’t know, I wasn’t the one who purchased the tickets directly.
Anyways, you line up in order of your boarding assignment. The earlier you get on the plane the better seat you get.
I hated it. Just assign seats.
The no seat assignments policy on SW is awesome. You literally just check in on time to get on the earlier groups through a mobile app. Click a button 24 hrs before your flight. Boom you're in group A. B at worst. It's straight first come first served. At worst, you can pay $25 extra for the early bird to be in the A group and not stress about check in. Then then line you up based on your spot, and you just walk on and pick which seat you want. Plus SW doesn't charge you to check a bag.
Egalitarian shit. None of this class based, money grubbing crap. Those types of policies are the reason we have "fast passes" at airports now and then of course then even faster "fast passes".
Other airlines are also charging you after your tickets to choose your seats and they charge more based on the seat. And charging for bags. And everything else.
Assigned seats also ruined the theater experience for the same reasons.
Have to disagree with you on this one.
I love being able to choose what seat in a theater I'm purchasing, versus if it's a full theater first come first served and you end up getting a horrible side or front row seat.
I'd rather skip a showing and go to a later showing with a more favorable seating arrangement, and having assigned seating allows me to have that.
I actually kind of dislike the assigned seating at movie theaters myself. It now doesn't matter if i go early, the theater might already be nearly booked. The only way around this is to either make two trips to the theater or pay extra to buy online.
On the other hand, it does eliminate any rush to get there early once you have the ticket
I'm kind of confused why you don't just call or check their website from home and reserve the seating, versus going down there in the first place?
If they're full you've saved yourself a trip going down there to reserve seating, when you can do it from home online or via the phone. And I've never had a situation where I've had to pay extra for the seats, doing it over the phone or online.
Yep, makes it really stress-free. You just walk in there and walk through the front door and just sit down in your seats.
Honestly, if they didn't charge extra I'd probably not be so annoyed, but the theaters around me all add like a $3 "convenience" fee for booking online, which is complete bs since it's actually saving them money not needing to keep as many people working
Capitalists will capitalist, though
Yeah, extra fees to do that would suck like a vacuum cleaner set to high. Try letting the manager of the theater know that its b.s. to do that, you never know.
I actually got my local theater (long time ago) to stop having commercials shown after the lights go down, by talking to him (I'm not paying to watch commercials argument, basically).
Assigned seats mean you can hardly just ad hoc decide to see a movie nowadays. You basically have to plan it out. Used to be "hey let's see the showing at 6. Ok let's get there at 5:30 then." Now, you go look and people already took the best seats and shows up mid preview. Or people buying literally all the seats weeks ahead of time for blockbusters.
How fun.
I haven't seen any blockbuster on opening weekend in probably over a decade because I know the good seats are already purchased.
Also, the seating maps aren't great.
That's not true. You can still ad hoc it.
At the time you want to go to the theater you just go, and when you buy your tickets you choose from whatever seats are available.
I don't see how that's any different than if you just walked up to the theater and bought tickets and got in the first come first serve line for seating.
The difference is that before you walked up and got in line or got in early enough that you walk in and choose your seats. And your position was based on your arrival order. Now, you walk up and sorry all seats but the front were bought up and no they aren't here yet of course. Why would they be? It used to be you just timed it so you got there 30/45 minutes before the start.
I'm just yelling at clouds honestly. It's not that big a thing, and I reserve seats nowadays often, but mostly because I basically have to. Also, theaters are only ever crowded enough to care during tent pole releases and nowadays I just wait a few weekends.
I just find the social contact of getting to the venue when an event takes place early/on time to get your pick a better experience than choosing a seat on an app early. Probably a condition from growing up pre reservations.
Fair enough, thought I'd argue that was still first-come-first served, but I get your point.
This is why I won't fly Southwest unless I have no other choice. Nice planes and otherwise lovely flight experience; shame about the seat policy. Every time I've tried, it's a confused mess of pushy or perplexed people in line, and I end up completely annoyed before takeoff.
On the flip side, it's free birth control. 😋
I'd rather sit and knit until my group is called and stroll up without rushing as I know exactly where I'm sitting. I watch people stress. SMH
Yeah, it wasn’t so bad except for the boarding. But I’m with you. I don’t want to rush to be crammed into a can of sardines any longer than I have to be.
Do you have anywhere to be instead?
On bench I guess
Well, you do it. Other people is not so afraid of a little "exercise"
Because once through thebgate, there's the line of actually getting into your seat because some people tend to stand in the aisle and block everyone while taking their jacket off. And if you're in a prioritized boarding group you can circumvent most of these by getting into the plane early, which results in more time watching youtube while sitting on my ass.
Source: frequent flier. In fact, I'm typing this from seat 9F on an Airbus A320neo right after sitting down.
There's no way the airlines allow you to take a donkey onboard, surely?
Same when the plane lands. You must be the first to unclip and stand. He who stands longest wins.
That for me is a stretching thing. I don't care if I'm back of the plane, I'm standing up as soon as we're allowed.
Every time, a good 75% of people stand up before it's allowed and it annoys me every time.
You're allowed to get up during the flight though
Oh, well in that case I'll just stand during the flight, and remain seated when we land so other people who care too much about what strangers are doing feel more comfortable.
Mate I'm not telling you off for wanting to stretch, just puzzled about why you don't do it earlier on when you start feeling cramped
Because him standing early so he thinks he can get off the plane earlier good, standig during flight bad because logic
I'm on a Boeing plane. I'll stay buckled and seated, thanks.
Naaah, leaving the plane should be in order of the seats. Not “I stood up first”. Now you have to play the game of:
I was being sarcastic, in case it wasn't clear.
Standing is superior to sitting unless you are disabled or unhealthy
Big issue for musicians. Many of us have instruments that are just small enough to be carry-ons but just large enough to be a bit unwieldy compared to other carry-ons, so nabbing primo carry-on storage is a must.
Agreed. Can we talk about getting off though? Everyone seems to have their own idea about how to do it and here is my proposal that I am very certain is the most efficient: plane lands at gate, but doors haven’t opened yet. The AISLE seats get up, get their bags, wait patiently in aisle till doors open. The WHOLE LINE of aisle standers files off (they are all ready to just leave), then the next inner seats get up, get their stuff, and file off, etc. Every time someone is “polite” and lets people get up infront of them, they hold up the entire line of aisle standers, and anyone else who could be getting up from their seat and grabbing their things. The entire plane has to wait each time someone says “yes I could just walk forward and leave the plane right now, but please go ahead and take your time getting out of your seat and grabbing your things before I go”
I don’t want to look for my seat with 20 people in front and 20 people behind me, touching my ass cos there is no space . If I have a window seat, then I have to also deal with the people sitting next to me, they get up, walk out, I sit down, they get in blah blah blah
I do it to give the people still sitting something to tut over.
People's mentality after waiting at the airport for six hours for a six hour flight ...
THIS IS THE LAST HELICOPTER OUT OF VIETNAM!!!!
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I saw in a flight that the airline mistakenly sold the same seat twice, two persons were fighting for the same seat, and when the stewardess came to review, she saw the error, the flight was oversold and the second man needed to leave the plane.
They don't do that mistakenly. They just realized most of the time a few passengers don't show up so overselling makes sense to keep the plane full.
If that happens to you in the EU, you are entitled to compensation, regardless of what the airline says. Know your rights!
I think it's the same in america. But yeah, the airlines will of course try to wriggle out of this
This happened to me once, on a flight from JFK to Columbus OH. I was pissed because I had traveled the last 22 hours to get out of southern France back to the states, and then got kicked from my final little flight home. They gave me $200 to their airline (Delta) that had an expiration date, and a room at DoubleTree to take me back to the airport next day.
I couldn't afford another trip after that so they canceled my $200 coupon after a year. So, yeah, you get compensated, I guess
You were scammed. You were owed cash.
Yes, the rule for involuntary bumping is:
1-2hr delay: 2x ticket price up to $775
2+hr delay: 4x ticket price up to $1550
It must be paid out at the airport, or within 24hr at the latest.
They are required to give you a written statement of your rights, though in my experience they usually "forget" and you have to go and assert your rights.
Airlines are well aware of these rules, and unfortunately there is no compensation if they involuntarily bump you onto an earlier flight, so I've had to take some flights before at the asscrack of dawn due to bumping.
This is in the US? I had a few friends get fucked with last moment cancellations for my birthday trip to Vegas and the airlines didn’t do shit. One, Frontier, had to be strong armed to get them on another flight and still charged them the premium for the new flight.
Yes, it is in the US. It's in the federal aviation regulations: 14 CFR part 250. There is a link to the regulation at the bottom of this article from the DOT:
https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/bumping-oversales
Just going to make it very clear though, there's big differences between being denied boarding (bumped due to overselling), a flight being delayed, and a flight being canceled. Each is its own situation.
There is no legal requirement for compensation if a flight is delayed. If the flight is canceled entirely then you are owed a refund of what you paid. There's no law requiring the airline to rebook you or pay for accommodations or alternate transportation in any situation. What the airline will do in situations outside of "bumping" mostly follows the contract of carriage and their customer service policies / discretion (in my experience customer service agents can have a lot of discretion especially if they're not busy and you ask nicely).
Since you said your friends' flights were canceled, not that they were bumped (denied boarding), basically only the contract of carriage applies (and any relevant tort law). Also, just in general, Frontier is a low cost carrier, and when you fly with them you have to understand that they do not provide the same level of service as other carriers. In exchange, you get a lower price. For example, their contract of carriage says nothing about ground accommodation due to unforseen circumstances, while other airlines have clauses about paying for hotels and other forms of transportation.
That being said, Frontier does agree to rebook you on a Frontier flight in the following circumstances:
IANAL, but it sounds like your friends could probably still request a refund of the premium that they paid, since Frontier was contractually bound to transport them at no additional charge. If Frontier refuses, then it sounds like it could be a good fit for small claims court.
It's always worth knowing your rights and the legal background when you're dealing with companies, especially when they are as profit-driven and operate at as low a margin as the airline industry does. Note that even in Frontier's contract, the burden is on you to request a refund. Airlines will basically do anything possible to not pay money if they can help it, even if it means sometimes "forgetting" about federal law when it comes to bumping.
On the other hand, you can also benefit by being able to recognize when an airline is not required to do something, but does it anyways out of goodwill. For example, when I got bumped onto the earlier flight, they called me up offering me something like 25k points for the inconvenience. I tried to negotiate higher, but they refused, so I accepted the 25k points understanding that I had no leverage because they weren't actually obligated to offer me anything.
Ah that all makes sense.
Cancellations in particular suck, and are one reason I don’t fly budget airlines when possible. It nearly ruined the trip for my friends when they couldn’t get a flight out that night and put a damper on my birthday weekend for sure. I might mention to them the policy you pasted and see if they want to do anything about the extra few hundred they spent.
Thanks for the informative and high effort reply too! Really appreciate it.
Here is a link to Frontier's current contract of carriage, though note that it's effective 2/19/24 and I don't know what it looked like before that.
https://f9prodcdn.azureedge.net/media/9690/cs_coc.pdf
Well, our trip was in March so that’s perfect!
How do they bump you to an earlier flight? You turn up for the flight you have a ticket for and they tell you your plane left 2 hours ago?
Good question, actually it all happened a few days before I even got to the airport, so I was aware which flight I was supposed to take. I don't think that really technically counts as "denied boarding" but it seems like they probably did it because my original flight was very oversold.
I remember a scandal in Germany some years back, where it was reported that people on the airline call centres were instructed to wrongly tell customers that they weren't entitled to compensation, and to only pay out when they where under threat of being sued. Dunno whether that improved.
I heard people complaining a lot about Wizz Air.
I usually fly with KLM, and they have been always fast and good with this.
Depends on what airline you're taking, Southwest doesn't assign seats
Not all airlines assign seats. I know Southwest doesn't, you just find an empty seat once you board. In that case it makes sense to stand in line.
Southwest assigns you a position in line. You can pay for a better one. Their passengers don't spend a lot of time waiting in ad-hoc lines before their group is called like other airlines.
But your position in line is assigned. When they ask the A group to line up and the Bs start hovering they're not accomplishing anything.
Absolutely.
I dont I just chill. Those goobers will fuck something up and I'll stand there for like 30 min like a moron.
Unless you need/like to stand before takeoff, I don't see the point. I don't mind if people do, as long as they are polite.
Bag space woes? It's real, but seriously see what you can do without. I fly for work at least once a month and I'm a pro one bagger for trips of 4 days or less; more if I'm doing summer weight clothes. It means I rewear things if they are clean and sometimes wash clothes in my hotel, but damn does it make travel easy.
Checked bag fees suck. Be the first to volunteer to gate check. I can only recall one flight in the last few months where an announcement wasn't made. The bag is waiting at the destination gate so you don't even have to handle bag claim. I do it every time I travel.
brother you and I are the same
From the airline's point of view, having the next person right there ready to get in their seat is preferable to having everyone come up one at a time. This is why they have boarding groups. You usually see between 3 and 5 boarding groups because it's a reasonable number between 1 and N (N being the total number of passengers). I'm curious how ~10 boarding groups would fare, but presumably there's a reason airlines don't do that.
Mostly already mentioned I guess.
Bag fees is the answer. And people who’d rather screw over the next person by putting everything into the overhead bin (jacket, backpack, whatever) that should be under the seat.
People don’t want to pay to check more bags, so they cram as much as they can into anything checked and then the rest into a carry on (assuming they check anything at all). These over-stuffed carry-ons have to then be shoved into an overhead bin, and once the bins are full, the airline will gate check it to the destination. Now you have to wait at baggage claim for your bag along with the fear that for whatever reason it won’t make it. People don’t want that, so they line up to make sure they can put all their stuff in the overhead bin.
So there’s everyone filling up the overhead bin with purses, backpacks, and whatever other items that should have been placed under the seat in front of them. Yeah, I get it, space is tight. No, airline travel will never be like “the old days” when you can spend $250 or less round-trip today to cross the US and back. You wanted cheap, you got it, along with commensurate service. It’s no secret that space is limited. However, IMO those people are dickheads for forcing fellow passengers to check a bag because they take half the bin for all the stuff their cheap asses didn’t want to check while they simultaneously complain about the service they wanted to pay bottom dollar for.
I see only one reason, why i would want to be early at the seat. its bcs if i am not, my backpack might be placed above but multiple seats away by the crew, where it is then uneasy for me to have an eye on it whilst easy for theives to take and open them, especially on long flights there would be plenty of opportunity like when everyone is sleeping.
but for this case i use locks on the backpack anyway, so that anyone who wants to open it, either opens it where nothing of value is in it thus no lock, or at least has a much harder time than when trying the very same with other bags...
also on longer flights i usually did not have that problem, but that could also have been just luck
Thieves aren't buying multiple hundred dollar tickets to bip your laptop from your bag man.
I've literally never had anything stolen from an overhead bin, and I've never given the slightest of fucks about monitoring my bags unless I was traveling to like a 3rd world country, and even then, it's overkill to worry. It's a captive audience, and the dumbest place to steal. The airline has everyone's name/info. It's certainly possible, for someone to, but definitely not likely.
yeah, that's why i am happy to avoid the us when travelling, mainly because of reports that electeonics are bricked regulary by them, but this discussion is more about theft. like "never allow hand luggage to be checked, better miss the flight instead":
https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/99956/how-common-is-it-for-airport-officers-to-steal-valuables-from-luggage
it's not always about travellers that could lay hands on your stuff, maybe staff "needs" a living wage too ;-)
Yeah, but the op was talking about worrying about people on the plane stealing from his bag in the overhead bin, not the TSA stealing from it. But yeah, TSA is grimy AF, I always make sure to count my money before and after I put my wallet through the security line. I also wouldn't trust valuables in a checked bag as well.
eh, if youre in first class you could potentially start getting served drinks before boarding is complete. i know i have.
that said, ive often waited til the plane was mostly seated/no line before boarding even if seated in first.
The nice thing if you ever fly first class is that you'll typically get boarding priority and sometimes even your own door on larger planes so that you don't have to interact with the poors (j/k I'm a poor too, I've just booked first/business class before when I have enough points saved up so that it's worth it).
People are dumb. Mostly.
The question you should be asking instead is why would you shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane?
I literally chill til the very end of boarding before I get on. Like you said, my seat is assigned, it ain't changing, and I'm packed light enough to put my backpack under the seat in front of me. Sometimes people don't show up n I sneak into a better seat 🤫. I've only ever been called out for that on Frontier, they know the hustle apparently. I've never bothered trying 1st class or anything, but I've gotten some middle seats to transform into aisles that way.