I haven't used the app in a while and opened it and saw this... Well never buying Anova again
But hey at least they gave me a coupon that expired two months ago.
Imagine seeing that message and buying another product from them.
“It’s time to artificially create waste. Don’t worry, you won’t see this message again. Our new cookers are designed to not last 10 years.”
100%. They've just guaranteed that the sous vide unit that I have now is the last Anova product I will ever buy.
Ung
(Don’t) hope they did their math right and the “well, it’s just $2/mo” crowd is large enough to offset the principled crowd
That notice doesn't even say there is a $2/mo option. App just won't work at all.
Imagine Goodyear 500 tires!...for just 30 bucks a month you too can get the most inexpensive tires of all. 500 mile tires!. After 500 miles they don't spin or hold air so we recommend setting your odometer properly.
I can't imagine why these things even need an app.
You have to set the thing up with water and all, just hit the buttons on the device.
The one and only time I used the app it lost connectivity and left my chuck roast in lukewarm water for who knows how long. Tossed it because I didn't want to kill my family with food poisoning. It's nice if you have a WIFI connected device, so you can put something on the counter in an ice water bath in the morning with the sous vide wand in there and flip it on before you leave work in the afternoon. Also seeing that the water has maintained an appropriate temp during a long cook is nice too. It's a niche case use, but that's why it's nice to have it connected.
I have a different brand, but I can see the value. The interface on the small screen on the device I have is very clumsy. Took me a while to figure it out, and I'm very tech savvy. I can see a mobile app being useful, also for notifications so I don't independently have to set timers.
Also as a former mobile dev, mobile apps take maintenance to keep up with OS changes over time. And developers are expensive.
What I imagine happened is that they probably outsourced their app development to a 3rd party, because they make hardware, not software. That contract probably expired, including their ongoing support agreement, and they've probably negotiated an hourly rate for support on-demand going forward, maybe with a different 3rd party dev.
So in all likelihood, they're just passing the cost for ongoing maintenance on an EOL model to the customer.
However, that looks absolutely insane from a consumer standpoint.
I don't know their Financials, but they may not be big enough to just swallow the cost for brand PR if they're not selling at a volume and profit margin to be able lose money on old products.
This is why, even as a dev that used to work in the mobile and IOT space, I tend to purchase dumb devices if there are good options. Smart devices get dumb as soon as the shine has dulled.
My partner has an Anovo affected by this and he knows the details better than me, but IIRC the app allows you to set times to change temps or things like that. The device still works without the app, but you lose the convenience factor of being able to monitor or make changes at a distance.
LOL they absolutely don't and mine does not have one or I never would have bought it. I don't buy anything that requires an app to function.
It's kinda nice to just search what you are making, click cook, and all the settings are preloaded and the device starts. The manual interface is clunky.
Size and easy to clean (and waterproof) is one, I have a ChefSteps Joule which is app control only, but it is much easier to clean, and much smaller than my old Anova (fits in a drawer with other crap)
Granted it is more annoying to use the app than the controls, but the trade off for us was worth it, if not for everyone.
They could just use capacitive touch for controls, inferior to buttons but just as cleanable. There's little reason to not have both options
Capacitive touch controls around anything with the potential to generate steam or condensation is an awful idea. At best they just don't work with damp fingers, at worst the buttons short or randomly activate because of the water that builds up.
I have one, and didn't know it had an app.
That’s bullshit
Actively encouraging people to toss perfectly good hardware to fuel their subscription bullshit… and these guys weren’t even recently bought by a VC firm or anything?
They were bought by Electrolux in 2017, and have been enshittifying ever since. Cheaper, lower quality parts, etc. They're just profiting from the brand as they turn it to shit. Never buy their products.
Unrelated but how would you rate sous vide cooking? I am tempted for a bunch of reasons but I'm worried it'll be just another kitchen appliance that I rarely use.
For steaks, they're excellent. About the only thing I haven't been able to do over a good steakhouse restaurant is an extremely crisply outer layer. There's some techniques there that I haven't learned yet that might fix that. Everything else about the juiciness and taste is easily the same or better.
You're basically taking all the art of out it that you would have to learn to become a top steak grill master, and replacing it with precision.
Make sure you dry your steak extremely well, and then basically shallow fry it in a cast iron or other heavy pan. Don't need to deep fry it, but if you really want it as crispy, you want a real layer of oil.
One strength of sous vide is you can get even normal steaks much more tender than otherwise possible, just by extending your sous vide time up to two or three hours.
I was using it for steaks and it's been great - sous vide then cast iron pan - but I moved somewhere where the smoke alarm is extremely sensitive so haven't used it much lately 😞
There are different type of smoke alarms. Some detect smoke. There are two ways of doing that. Near a kitchen area it's usually best to get a completely different one that just uses changes in temperature. Though they will only notify you way matter. So highly recommend keeping the existing one and moving that one somewhere else.
If you're not committed, you don't actually need an appliance for it, have had great results with a Dutch oven and a programmable BBQ thermometer monitoring the water temp. One of my burners goes really low so just a matter of adjusting to keep in range. You don't get forced circulation (get some natural circulation though) and it's not set and forget, but you can do with stuff you probably already have on hand. Done with heavy freezer bags before I was gifted a vacuum sealer.
I would see if there's a way to disable updates for that app.
Do you need the apk to use it at all? Or is it just a little perk to go along with it?
Hopefully, someone hacks the apk so it just keeps working.
I bought one of these years ago, and took a look at it. The app let's you remote control the stick and pick recipes that will autoset the temps. That's about it. The stick has buttons on it, and it's not like you can have it add the food to the water bath remotely. It'd pretty easy to knock in the temp at the heater while you're there
Sous vide is a "set and forget" cooking method like a crockpot. You can walk away and leave the thing running long past the minimum time and have no issues because the whole point is it takes food to an exact temp and no further. So even any alerting "temp reached" it may do now isn't really useful.
This feels like a "pick the carcass" attempt to make some money at all. I expect the company is probably in a bad state if this is the game they are playing.
Yeah. I've used sous vide for a long time myself. Sounds like the whole apk could be replaced with asking the internet what temp to cook X at, and then setting your phones timer for cook time.
"supporting them". I understand bug fixes and the inevitable support end-of-life cycle, etc; I really do. But the reasoning behind abandoning an old, yet in-use product is because you want them to buy a newer alternative.
Translation:
“Fuck you for not replacing your perfectly fine and still working 10 year old machine and making our line go up more. We’re gonna do our best to brick it because we want all of your money.”
Fuck capitalism. I will (and have been) doing my absolute to avoid buying any kind of physical device that requires an app to function
I will (and have been) doing my absolute to avoid buying any kind of physical device that requires an app to function
Same. It’s becoming more difficult every day.
And that's so sad. There are a lot of (mainly Elderly people) who don't even have a smartphone who now often can't use the most basic stuff necessary because it needs an app.
A lot of this stuff is only useful if you have money, anyway. And poverty rates among the elderly have been climbing since the Housing Crash of '08
I've said this before, I'm going to say it again: people with money spend it to save time.
Managing 2FA, software updates, account signin, device pairing, billing, privacy policy updates, cookie notices.... This shit does not save people time. It does the complete opposite.
These products are not built for consumers. These products are purely anticompetitive schemes, propping up crappy business models, trying to cash in on the data harvesting gold rush.
I've been screaming this at the top of my lungs for 20 years, and oh my god the "I told you so"'s I get to say now feel SO good.
i mean, I don't have any friends anymore, so mostly im just calling up people who hate me now and saying "I told you so", but, like I DID, so, worth.
I mean, not, like, 'worth' in the sense that anything in my life works or wasn't torn apart by my adherence to materialism and avoidance of dark patterns, but, like, you know, feels good for a few minutes when they haven't changed their number.
These products are not built for consumers.
they're often built for investors. they are feasible enough products that some people will even buy them, so you get investors. then, the thing is always just "one more issue we need to fix" away from "mass adoption", "for real this time"... to keep milking the investors as long as possible.
if I see something requires an app, no matter how good it is otherwise. the product is dead to me. I know it is, effectively, going to break within a year or two.
I have one of these, and I use it just fine without an app fwiw
you never know for sure until you try though, so if it requires an app, it's dead to me and I don't trust anything else the company makes.
if it has an API i get very wet very fast.
That’s fair, but the point I was trying to make was that I have tried and, for the one I’ve got at least, the app isn’t required. I’m not trying to defend them or anything, I just thought it was worth mentioning.
Tbh I’m kinda glad it doesn’t have an API, because I’d end up wasting a lot of time playing with it haha.
see, if it had an API, I could integrate it into an open smart home app, and it would be cool as FUCK.
About two phone changes ago I never reinstalled the anova app.
It's like pressing the buttons on top of the cooker with extra steps.
yeah there are apps I want on my phone, but if anything says 'there is an app' I'm instantly averse.
even the things I do want phone apps for, I have to browse on fdroid because default options are all terrible. basic shit like file browsers and media players in commercial OS's are just, like, vile and do not function. even if I didn't care about the endoscopes they try to snake up every orifice, they are deliberately nonfunctional.
I'm getting that same way.
Currently trying to chase down some automatic sun shades that don't need an app to do time-based cycles. Shouldn't be this hard, but every band wants you to use absolute garbage apps.
Switchbot (hardware) and home assistant (controlling server) might fit your needs. It still would require an app, but home assistant is self hosted and is a fantastic automation platform. It won't be as smooth as an all in one setup, but I find the tinkering is half the fun.
I've installed so many hardware items that are either "appless" and are controlled by home assistant or home assistant is compatible and replaced the app. Absolutely worth it IMO. I have been able to make a full self hosted/controlled and offline functional smart house.
if its not open source; it doesn't exist.
Yeah, I need to start being better about this. It's a shame because I bought my joule sous vide because I like the simplicity and ability to monitor and program it remotely (helpful when cooking for 5-6h). App stopped working properly and now they've been purchased by breville and if I want to use it I need to switch and I'm guessing it won't be long before they start to drop functionallity or require some sort of subscription.
There are things like this where the app is much more than a gimmick. But it sucks to have some company pulling the strings of what you can or can't do with your own hardware.
water+heat proofing is hard, or I'd suggest a DIY solution.
can't just root the sous vide?
I mean it is shitty still, but people with an old device and an account already are unaffected, plus the old devices like the one I have is completely operable offline. I've not connected it to WiFi except when I first got it to check the app out.
Wait
"Our community has literally cooked 100s of millions of times with our app. Unfortunately, each connected cook costs us money."
The cooker, It's FUCKING Bluetooth. It doesn't need to call home, it can't call home. The App, It has a list of 35 different sous vide recipes that could live on the app. The app has no business calling home, they don't need a server.
They need if they were to push firmware updates via the app that are then installed over Bluetooth, like some headphones do. But that should be a free service, and also optional. I don't really see any groundbreaking functionality added for a device that's basically a submerged motor with a temperature probe.
It's a decade old cooking appliance .
What possible firmware updates could it need at this point?
Firmware updates should not cost a subscription fee and could open them up to lawsuits.
Temperature
Temperature set point
Deadband
Heater power
Time
Display temperature
Display time
This can literally be handled with two non-microprocessor integrated circuits and $5 in other electronic Lego components.
It doesn't need firmware. It's a $200 oversized fish tank heater.
Even in that case the app doesn't need to phone home. It doesn't even need an internet connection on its own. You'd have to download the update yourself and then use the app to apply the patch, which is less user friendly to not-so-tech-savy users but possible. Just send an email with the necessary information to users who have subscribed to receive these kind of updates.
And if each did cost them money - they’ve been paid when the stupid thing was purchased!
Yeah, it's a $200 heater. Probably $30 in parts. You can run a small cluster for the profit in a few sales a month.
It's a cooker. Why the hell does it even need bluetooth, let alone an internet connection?
So it can notify you when the water has reached the set temperature or the time you set for cooking is up. Which can be handy. However, I found the BT very weak on my Anova and it would lose connection when I went into my home office a mere 25' away, so I stopped using it. There's actually no need for the water to be up to temperature before you put your food in, and food can sit as long as you want; half the point of sous vide is to be able to hold food at temp without overcooking. So you don't really need the timer either.
I have something similar, but wifi. Never even tried to connect to it, because you just use the buttons to set temp & time.
I can imagine, though, that an app might have buttons for 'eggs', 'yogurt', 'steak', etc. Or maybe let you program temperature-time sequences. Or let you check how much time is left from the next room. Conveniences. Definitely no need for them to phone home, though, except maybe for an ad-driven 'recipe of the week' type thing.
This is the absolute worst possible way for me to first hear about a product and company that I would have otherwise been interested in
Same. I've been thinking of replacing the cheap immersion circulator we have, and was going to go with Anova. This blatant enshittification is enough to make me look elsewhere.
I've had one for years, use it often and honestly didn't know it had an app until today.
Fair point. I just don't like the move, and don't want to support a company doing it. Even putting that aside, it really makes me worried that they're at the point that they're trying to ride on their reputation while increasing profit margins. It makes me think that, if I buy their newer models, they're more likely to cheap out but charge more.
It is utterly bullshit. But is the app required for using the device?
Also
The subscription fee will only apply to people who make an account after August 21. Those who downloaded the app and made an account before August 21 won't have to pay. But everyone will have to make an account; some people have been using the app without one until now
I have one and I can use it without the app
Better make an account in the next 5 days
You can set the temperature and the cook time on the device without having the app at all. The biggest benefit of the app is that you get a notice when the water is to temperature, which for certain more sensitive foods is needed to put the food in. (If you're doing a 24 hour slow cook, it's not really needed, but if you're trying to do something with more precise cooking lengths, you don't want the variance of starting water temp affecting how long the food is in the bath.)
Friendly reminder for others that you can setup this quite easily with home assistant and conditional notification alerts. I do it with my govee. Open. Source. Everything.
I looked into that and you need to build a Bluetooth bridge out of a ESP32. Pretty easy once you have the dev platform set up, but not for your average Joe.
There is an anova integration, but depends on their cloud service. When they stop supporting old devices, they will no longer function.
That's what I understand anyway.
No mine connects right to my pi with Bluetooth already present. Just bridge and go!
Is there a bridge? I'd definitely be interested in that.
Just need to configure Bluetooth and the govee integration.
Whoa! Really! That would be awesome. I couldn't find it at all last time I had it out. Interesting it would use govee though. Is there something special I'd have to do to set that up?
So it's not as bad as it seems, at least.
Unless these people paid a premium for this kind of "smart" device vs. the cost of a basic version.
I think the bigger issue is that they’re bricking all support for the oldest models, trying to force customers to abandon a fully functional device just because they want more money.
The app subscription fee is obnoxious as all get out, but punishing your oldest customers for your profit margins is what’s a bit infuriating.
At least, imo.
Honestly, after a decade of keeping compatibility and stuff, and that the sous vide still works fine without the apk, I don't really see this as much of a big deal. An apk for a sous vide is nearly useless, anyhow. What are you going to do with it?
It’s more about the principle. Why is it ok for a manufacturer to remotely disable a feature that was bought & paid for by a decades worth of customers?
Now that they’ve done it once, what’s stopping future attempts to gin up higher profits using the same tactics?
I don’t think anyone here is angry enough to go all Kid Rock on their Sous Vides, but I do think there are plenty who will look at a different brand when it is time for a replacement.
Well they're on v3 now and this ends the version 1, so I doubt they've sold the v1 for the past 5 years or so, but again, it's not an apk that you need to use it. If it were a device like a garage door opener that let's you open/close or see when the door is opened or closed I'd be bitching up a storm. Same if it were like a door deadbolt to lock/unlock your front door. But a water cooker? What do you need the apk for? It couldn't functionally do anything over bluetooth to be of any help.
Would you buy a refrigerator from a manufacturer that wanted to make the ice maker a subscription service out of nowhere?
I get that the app isn’t a requirement for the device, but neither is an ice maker required for a refrigerator to function as designed.
They’re both features advertised as part of the original purchase price. Why does one get an expiration date out of the blue?
The people who are likely to be losing Bluetooth functionality are also the most likely to be from the original kickstarter batch.
Even if some-many of them have already upgraded to a newer model, that’s still one hell of a statement to make to your original backers.
Your analogy is terrible. The cooker still works. Does the icemaker still work without the apk? If so, then what good is the apk on an icemaker in a fridge?
My analogy isn’t terrible, it’s spot fucking on. You just use the ice maker & wouldn’t want to lose it so you’ve attached more value to it than the Anova App.
Does the refrigerator not refrigerate without the ice maker? You didn’t buy an ice maker, you bought a refrigerator.
No one is pissed about the device not working. People are pissed that Anova is taking away a FEATURE.
Anova App = Feature included in original purchase price
Ice Maker = Feature included in original purchase price.
This isn’t about the value of what’s being taken away. It’s about the principle of taking away something that was already paid for.
If Anova wants a subscription based model, they’re welcome to it, but…
Their current customers did not buy into a subscription model & have the absolute right to be pissed off about being forced into one.
Except, prior to this announcement, there was apparently another statement from Anova that you can’t control the first gen ones.
the announcement follows an Anova statement saying it will no longer let users remotely control their kitchen gadgets via Bluetooth starting on September 28, 2025.
Lemmy.world needs an internet-of-shit community. This could be a solid first contribution.
Sounds like it's time for an open sauce alternative.
I passed on a lot of the fancier apartment buildings for requiring an app and a cell phone to gain access to your own home. I shouldn't have to agree to an arbitration/class action waiver to use my own front door, I don't feel comfortable with management getting a notification on their phone every time I come or go, I don't like the fact that 20+ listed partner companies have access to sensitive personal data, and I shouldn't have to wait for maintenance to show up in the middle of the night because I couldn't make it back home before my personal tracking device died on me.
The sad thing is that most of these locking units cost these apartments hundreds of dollars each on top of a monthly subscription.
What the actual fuck. In what country do you live?
U.S.. Not an actual tracking device, just a cell phone. I usually leave it at home, which would have been impossible to do at many of those buildings.
management getting a notification
Isn't that a giant privacy violation? Why does anyone need to know when you come or go?
"...to maintain the safety and security of the building and everyone in it." - An actual FAQ
Way to make home feel like a prison.
They're just going to push people to the cheaper units at this point.
I was looking at sous vide cookers a few months back and was considering ANOVA but they were too expensive. Opted for a generic one instead.
The fact that they're more expensive and require a subscription for what's essentially a set of presets that my cheap unit has for free is just ridiculous.
Interesting, because when they were relatively new, they were also the cheap option. Sous vide used to be a $1000+ thing. I did a DIY version for around $200, but later Anova came out and it was less sketchy than my box of wires running mains voltage.
Instant Pot seems to make a pretty good one that fits around the sides of their pressure cookers.
Anova's app is basically useless. Could be nice for looking up temperatures and times for specific things, but I usually google it, anyway. Steaks are by far the most common thing I do sous vide, so it's usually preset for that. Never used the app outside of playing with it when I first got it.
One thing is for sure: I won't be recommending Anova to friends anymore.
Instan pot didn't continue to update their app three years ago and I now have a useless Insta pot.
I don't think I ever touched an app for my Insta Pot or its sous vide attachment, but maybe the newer ones have to?
Could be nice for looking up temperatures and times for specific things, but I usually google it
Well... who knows how long until we start getting billed for that, too.
explain how the waterproofing+heatproofing on sous DIY sous vide work. I must know.
Oh, that's just the sealed bag like normal. Back then, I was using special ziploc bags with a port for a small hand pump. They seem to have stopped making those, and I switched to a regular vacuum sealer.
The diy part was the heater/pump. I based it on this:
The problem with this design is that because it sits above the hot water, it tends to have a lot of condensation build up inside the housing. So I rebuilt it to have power plugs for the teacup heaters and pump. Then it could be set to the side, and I could use more heaters for larger containers.
I refuse to use one that requires bluetooth or an account. I want to turn the bitch on and go do shit for 4+hr. There's nothing fancy about the process. Some real Ron Popeil shit and they try to force apps on us.
Does it require?
This summer I spent way too much money on a grill with an app. The thing is it’s a smoker so i might run it all day and the app lets me check on it while still doing other stuff all that time.
However the app is an extra, and I would still have all functionality besides removing if the app went away. I’d be pissed losing remote functionality after spending so much money, but I’d still be able to use the grill normally
The big ones did, yeah. They actually just started the requirement while I was looking for one.
I don’t know whether to upvote you for a solid reply, or downvote the lack of functionality without an app
Were gonna need to pirate sous vides now
Other than my computer, phone and xbox, I own nothing at all that can connect to the Internet. It's incredibly stupid.
I have a smart TV and a Bluray player as well, but other than that, only phones, computers, and my Switch connect to the internet. My next TV will likely not be smart, because screw ads, and I've ripped all of my Blurays.
I've stopped buying TVs. It's difficult to find a dumb one nowadays. I watch on my phone or my computer monitor.
I just dont connect the TV to the internet and hook a separate media center up to the HDMI port.
Would be nice, but I have kids, and it's really hard to watch a movie together on a phone. I need another soon-ish, so I'm going to look into hospitality TVs and projectors.
Why not just buy a TV and not connect it to the internet?
That's the backup plan, yes. I haven't looked at newer TVs recently, but I wouldn't be surprised if they still had some kind of ads even if they don't connect to the internet, or they require connecting to the internet to activate the TV or something dumb like that.
My current TV only connects for Netflix, and I'm this close to cutting that out (just need my wife to finish her series). Everything else is on my Jellyfin server, and if I can get everyone to switch to that, I won't need any kind of internet connection for the TV.
My last two TVs were dumb ones.
It is getting harder find dumb TVs because the smart stuff included with most TVs subsidizes keeping the initial price low. Manufactures are betting millions of dollars purchasers will sign up for the monthly apps.
Buy smart TV. Open the back. Remove WiFi card.
Purchase cheap Chinese mini PC, put Kodi on it.
That's all you need
That's not always easy, sometimes the WiFi is on the board itself and not just an add-in card. Or you get annoying warnings or something on the TV.
Commercial TVs will probably last a lot longer than regular retail TVs, so if I'm not going to be using all the features of the TV, I might as well spend a bit more and get something that'll last.
Why does a Blu-ray player need to connect to the Internet?
It can play Netflix and a few other streaming services. But more importantly, I was able to stream videos to it through DLNA.
Oh, that's cool!
Bd players need internet as they only have keys for the discs made before they were made. So if you stick a newer disc in it won't play until it gets updated.
I own some things that can, but that doesn't mean they do.
My bloody dishwasher asked for my wifi password when I first connected it.
Oh ffs.. This is the one I have..
And, you know what? The firmware sucks.
You can't even connect to wifi if you have two AP's with the same name (which is literally everyone).
I haven't even installed the app in ages because it's a PITA and has never worked 100%.
But, they can guarantee my next one won't be an anova again. There are much cheaper alternatives now
I'd recommend anova brand
Oi bruv, it's anova kitchin appluiance asking for moy woyfoy passwood.
Damn autocorrect was fighting me on every word lol
The subscription fee will only apply to people who make an account after August 21. Those who downloaded the app and made an account before August 21 won't have to pay. But everyone will have to make an account; some people have been using the app without one until now.
"You helped us build Anova, and our intent is that you will be grandfathered in forever," Svajian wrote
Fuck everything about this, but at least they have the decency not to pull the rug on people who bought it without this stupidity.
The only real benefit of the app to me is the push notifications, but losing those would be douchey. It would be far better to allow that basic functionality and put all the recipe shit behind the wall.
yeah...ummm...no
I have one of their's that can connect to your phone. It's not needed, it just adds extra cook book functions. It even hosts it so you can control the sous vide when you're not at home, almost like a reverse proxy.
But yea the physical buttons work fine without the app.
My car works fine without a seat warmer, but if you sold it to me as part of the car then later it started charging me a subscription I'd be pretty pissed.
Yeah, I barely use the app, but this is a bullshit anti-consumer move that leaves me with zero reason to trust the company going forward.
What I like about having the Bluetooth connection to the app, is mostly just to see when the water has come up to temperature.
But that was apparently too much to ask, since it says that they are also removing the Bluetooth functionality from the app...
You wouldn't download a sous vide
The wifi ones work with Home Assistant so you won't lose remote features. The bad news is you have to run home assistant and set it up.
The original models will. While Home assistant has an Anova integration, it is cloud dependent and it's the cloud that will discontinue support. As I understand it.
Local control uses a Bluetooth bridge which I guess is my next project.
BT Proxy Bridges are super easy to make. Just flash a esp32 with the premade package and power it. I have one on every room of my house just so whatever I have will just work everywhere.
Yup! I have the stuff, just haven't gotten around to flashing one yet. Working on a wind meter at the moment.
This is lemmy and so I understand it but flashing an esp32 is not super easy for 99.9% of the population.
True but this was in response to the previous post where they stated that are about to make one. My original post I stated the BT proxy is more work.
I have never bought an appliance or physical product that requires an app to use, and I never will until our society has deteriorated to the the point where there is no alternative to that in order to get by in it. It's almost at that point already with smartphones but for now it's still possible to get by without one.
I personally think it's perfectly reasonable for a company to eventually start charging for a service they provide that costs them money to provide. They might bakenin some number of years into the product price, but they can't keep providing the service for free forever.
It seems like something that should be expected if we do want certain services to be provided and maintained. Heck, I also think that offering a subscription is better than the usual alternative, which is that the company just shuts the service down.
However, the way this is done is almost always slimy and shitty and likely is only going to get solved by regulation.
It's incredibly rare that IOT devices NEED cloud integration. Most of the time it really SHOULD just be local-only, or have a local option.
If they are going to start charging for something to continue to work, unless there was already an explicit agreement that - and when - this would happen, they need to provide an alternative.
Either documentation or open software for how an alternate cloud - including local - could be used instead.
That info really should be mandatory to be made available beforehand in case the company shuts down.
The subscription fee needs to be reasonable.
Personally, I think $24/year is still far too much, but it's still WAY more reasonable than some I've seen.
Should be a no-brainer.
Part of the problem comes when companies go out of their way to provide a service on their end that could be covered reasonably easily on the consumer's side of things. Why put a few cents worth of storage in a device and make it locally accessible when you can make it cloud-connected and hosted to turn it into a revenue stream?
Another example, GM has had OnStar for ages. It does the same things your cell phone does, so it's hard to justify the subscription. Plus Android Auto/Car Play works really well and relies on something you update more often. So naturally, GM revamped their infotainment to do the things you'd have your phone do and got rid of Android Auto/Car Play.
It's all pure CEO bullshit though, and none of it is real.
It doesn't cost money to send a Bluetooth signal from your phone to a sous vide. Maybe the WiFi server costs money but it's their own fault for adding stupid functionality that phones home.
I've got one of these and I'm prepared to bet money that almost all of their server costs come down to every recipe in the app just being a link to a web page with lots of photos. https://recipes.anovaculinary.com/
Thing is they needed to factor this j to the cost of selling the device.
It basically costs them nothing to ru the service for this device. If they failed to calculate that as part of the sale price, that’s not the consumers fault.
2$/month for a fucking thermostat....
I wish people would stop threatening companies switching to subscription that they'll lose business. The c-suite know they'll lose much of the current customer base. They're banking on the data telling them that the market acceptance of their product is gaining traction with new customers.
That will float them until they tell grandfathered users to go screw themselves and will face all sorts of new charges to use their app as previously established.
This is what happens when you have companies run by MBAs and lawyers. They respond to the data, and as long as the data says any negative responses can be overcome in some other way, they'll do it. They don't care about their clientele (or their employees for that matter). They care about the extra millions of dollars they were promised for the degrees they paid for.
Start finding alternate solutions to any product that connects to the internet. Then they can't spy on you or handcuff a sub fee to their product.
Enshittification strikes again. 🤬
someone can just make a cracked version people can sideload
I bet the app requires cloud hosting for it to run, and its starting to eat away at the profits they made.
If it needs nothing but bluetooth, then this a pure money grab.
Usually, if it needs cloud hosting, it's because they're collecting your data. That presumably is a revenue stream for them.
I have one of these, and I haven't touched the app. Works perfectly fine without it.
It use to operate only off of Bluetooth, & then they added single band WiFi. They just added dual band WiFi as a new feature & are now removing Bluetooth functionality completely.
Absolutely a cash grab.
I will never throw a brick through the headquarters of Anova, nor would I advocate for others doing it.
I have two Anova cookers and have never needed the app fwiw
I honestly didn't know there was an app and use mine a few times a month.
Guess inkbird are going to get recommended a lot more...
Are they good?
I have an Inkbird & really like it. Significantly less expensive than Annova, offers all of the same features from what I can tell, & it’s never given me any issues.
The app is of course a bit clunky & ultimately unnecessary, but it does actually function as advertised.
I don't actually own any of their products but the bbq community generally speaks very highly of it. I figure whenever my current SV stick dies (not an ANOVA, it's a knockoff from Aldi lol), I need a backup so I've kept an eye on the market...
For those of us on Android, can't we download the old APK which still talks Bluetooth and just never interact with the web/wifi for these?
The app phones home to access recipes.
Maybe it works without access to the server, but maybe it just refuses to do anything.
I own one of these, and I honestly forgot there was an app. There's literally no reason for it, outside of the timed-start mode that I never use.
Honestly, the biggest mistake was making this an IoT device to begin with.
I have one of these. The sous vide cooker itself is very nice and easy to use, I’d highly recommend it. The app is a bit clunky and not necessary to use the device. I certainly wouldn’t pay $2 a month for it.
The app lets you set a temperature and cook time, but you can also do this using the buttons on the cooker. Sometimes the WiFi pairing is finicky, so honestly I skip the app half the time. The app also lets you view and write recipes. I guess the big advantage is you can click “start cooking” and it automatically sets the device temp and time, but doing it manually isn’t much harder. I’m also not wowed by the in-app recipe selection, and generally just get recipes from the internet.
They do this, because plebs pay...
There is a lesson in there
“Be evil so they have to stomp us out” shouldn’t be a standard. Stop allowing a world that rewards villains. Stop being a villain.
Coulda woulda shoulda...
People either accept the reality and act on it or keep getting fucked over because the world "shouldn't work like this"
Speak for yourself, snowflake. The world isn’t a safe place for shitheads to be shitheads. Culpability doesn’t make you a victim.
lolwat?
Lol. Hell no.
Cost or no cost, IoT should not be able to brick devices on the whim - or unexpected dissolution - of a faceless corporation.
Unfortunately too many people are trusting of monolithic entities which promise the moon and then decide what they really meant was "bend over".
I may be channelling a bit of Louis Rossman here.
That said, the other comments here suggest that the device in question still has all features when accessed from the front panel, which is a step up from a lot of other IoT behaviour. Owners who don't want to pay for the app should still disconnect it from any connectivity and keep it that way just in case the manufacturer decides to remove that functionality as well.
And if it stops working altogether without network connectivity, take the L and maybe mail it back to the company's head office with no return address. Let them deal with the e-waste.
entities which promise the moon and then decide what they really meant was “bend over”.
LOL, nice one.
I was given one of those. I tried the app once and immediately uninstalled it. It's worthless. The "let's put AI in your computer mouse, toothbrush, and toilet scrubber!" of ten years ago.
Y'all should read Unauthorized Bread from Cory Doctorow. This hits so close to home.
Lame move. That being said, I never use the app. It's very easy to set the temperature without it.
Oof, you too with the enshittificafion and planned obsolescence, Anova?
Ten years before they pulled this. Hopefully the cookers can be used without the app.
The funniest thing about this is a anovas app is practically f****** useless.
It has maybe two thirds of the things I ever want to cook in it. I end up looking times and temperatures up on the internet anyway. And it's maximum utility is to set the temperature and timer which you can do from the unit itself easily. Honestly more easily.
This right here. The app is absolutely useless and unnecessary. Just don't use it.
My new microwave rotates for free!!. The 9 dollar MW subscription gets me 500W, the 15 dollar gets me 1500W and with the $30 monthly subscription I can get 3000W! It's wonderful!
I mean they can ask, lol
I forgot my ANOVA when I moved this summer. Now, I'm not that sorry I did.
Honestly the Bluetooth app is dog shit. Haven't used it in years because it's far easier to just roll the dial. ANOVA should be paying me for distress.
First Inwas like Yeeeah to all the "smart stuff". But more and more I'm thinking - what happens to current cars after some time? When all the connected crap gets disconnected? Currently you can fix and drive any old piece of junk and drive it in theory forever. What happens when the smart cars lose connection to mothership? What happens when all the electronics go bad and there is no way to fix it? Same goes for your fridge, coffee maker, etc.
In the long run, having it all running Free Software is the only way to ensure it can be supported indefinitely. I have a zero-tolerance policy against proprietary software in my devices, and you should too.
I used the app once when I first got mine and never needed it again. I haven’t had a need for it as I start it, and then come back later. If I need a timer I can set one on my phone.
You know, This kind of shit happens so frequently anymore that if you're dumb enough to buy things that, for absolutely no reason, requires an internet connection and/or an app.. Then you deserve what you get.
Yes let's make this the consumers' fault, what with their limitless power in this dystopian fuckscape
"Its not my fault that I bought a stupid device for $$$Texas more than a normal product and created the market for it, its their fault for making it available for me to choose to buy!"
Gross oversimplification of a complex issue by a corpo bootlicker? Color me shocked...
They control the market, idiot. As well as the regulatory mechanisms for it.
Yes, because a corpo bootlicker is gonna tell you to stop buying their overpriced crap and creating a market for it
Cause corpo bootlickers are notorious for wanting to harm the companies that do stupid and/or bad
Fucking galaxy brain over here, thinking hes a genius cause hes a literal parrot repeating tidbits of what other people said without any consideration for thought or context.
You can't keep throwing money at these awful companies, buying these awful products, and expect them to fucking stop. at some point you're gonna have to fucking admit you're gonna have to make a sacrifice and actually fucking speak with your wallet.
There there, you are very smart, now piss off
It's sometimes hard to find, I needed a new stove, all the ones I could afford and that had what we needed had a fucking internet connection. I fucking hate it.
I'm not being sarcastic or attacking or anything, but I find that hard to believe. I spent 2 minutes before posting this looking at ranges and ovens (I dont know if you're talking about a complete stove unit (burners on top of an oven in a self contained stand alone package) or the oven unit that mounts into a wall, so I looked at both in that time) and I found tons that were cheap (well, cheap as far as these devices ago at least) and none of them had smart connectivity.
It wasnt until I was getting into the high cost items that were $5000+ that smart stuff started appearing.
I wish! The entire range is what we needed, had to be propane compatible, it was around 1k, at home depot. I genuinely try to avoid IoT bull shit.
Almost all ranges are propane compatible but will require the effort of installing the (included) propane conversion kit. The exception is Frigidaire, where the kit has to be purchased separately.
FYI, most of Whirlpool's range lineup (including Amana, Maytag and the non-"Pro" KitchenAid models), all of Frigidaire's range lineup, most of GE's base line range lineup (not Profile or Café) do not have Wi-Fi capability. It's mostly Samsung and LG pathologically putting connectivity into everything they make.
What features did you need that you couldn't avoid connectivity? I just queried my own product database and came up with 202 models that are LP compatible without purchase of a kit and do not have Wi-Fi capability. 261 if you're willing to countenance Frigidaire. And even among most of those that do have connectivity (KitchenAid's "Pro" models being an irritating exception) you don't need to connect to Wi-Fi or use the app for any functionality of the appliance; it's just an extra.
I'm happy you were able to find all those example. I couldn't. It's too late in any case.
Are you shopping at best buy?
No, home depot.
Find a scratch and dent place near you. Thats pretty much where I get all my appliances. Often the cosmetic issues are not even noticable, and if they are, they are often in a place that you wont see since they'll be hidden by cabinets or what have you.
I'm quite remote, there aren't very many options where I am, otherwise that would have been a great option. But whatever it was, it would have had to be compatible with propane which makes it a bit trickier.
Username checks out
Hey, I may be a random idiot, but I've never fuckin paid a 300%+ premium for a smart device, nor cried when it predictably either died early or started charging for use because corporate fuckery.
You had the choice to not buy it, You can not in the year 2024, not be aware of how this shit always, inevitably goes down.
It's not unreasonable to start charging for an app like that if it is under active maintenance, that costs money for the company after all.
But the lesson for the consumer is: Don't buy tools that rely on apps or servers ran by someone else unless you want to eventually start paying rent..
You realize all these people bought the thing before the app and subscription existed, right?
Something so simple shouldn't require maintenance.
Imagine buying a devices that makes you install a program on a device you have to keep on you at all times and which probably contains all of your personal and financial information.
Like 98% of the human race are absolute fucking morons.
Think about it after 10 years either the app is not supported by your operating system or their server is offline.
I need to gadget that's works with flip of switch and has all the functions offline even after 10 years.
If people don't understand this facts they are morons.
I haven't used the app in a while and opened it and saw this... Well never buying Anova again
But hey at least they gave me a coupon that expired two months ago.
Imagine seeing that message and buying another product from them.
“It’s time to artificially create waste. Don’t worry, you won’t see this message again. Our new cookers are designed to not last 10 years.”
100%. They've just guaranteed that the sous vide unit that I have now is the last Anova product I will ever buy.
Ung
(Don’t) hope they did their math right and the “well, it’s just $2/mo” crowd is large enough to offset the principled crowd
That notice doesn't even say there is a $2/mo option. App just won't work at all.
Imagine Goodyear 500 tires!...for just 30 bucks a month you too can get the most inexpensive tires of all. 500 mile tires!. After 500 miles they don't spin or hold air so we recommend setting your odometer properly.
I can't imagine why these things even need an app.
You have to set the thing up with water and all, just hit the buttons on the device.
The one and only time I used the app it lost connectivity and left my chuck roast in lukewarm water for who knows how long. Tossed it because I didn't want to kill my family with food poisoning. It's nice if you have a WIFI connected device, so you can put something on the counter in an ice water bath in the morning with the sous vide wand in there and flip it on before you leave work in the afternoon. Also seeing that the water has maintained an appropriate temp during a long cook is nice too. It's a niche case use, but that's why it's nice to have it connected.
I have a different brand, but I can see the value. The interface on the small screen on the device I have is very clumsy. Took me a while to figure it out, and I'm very tech savvy. I can see a mobile app being useful, also for notifications so I don't independently have to set timers.
Also as a former mobile dev, mobile apps take maintenance to keep up with OS changes over time. And developers are expensive.
What I imagine happened is that they probably outsourced their app development to a 3rd party, because they make hardware, not software. That contract probably expired, including their ongoing support agreement, and they've probably negotiated an hourly rate for support on-demand going forward, maybe with a different 3rd party dev.
So in all likelihood, they're just passing the cost for ongoing maintenance on an EOL model to the customer.
However, that looks absolutely insane from a consumer standpoint.
I don't know their Financials, but they may not be big enough to just swallow the cost for brand PR if they're not selling at a volume and profit margin to be able lose money on old products.
This is why, even as a dev that used to work in the mobile and IOT space, I tend to purchase dumb devices if there are good options. Smart devices get dumb as soon as the shine has dulled.
My partner has an Anovo affected by this and he knows the details better than me, but IIRC the app allows you to set times to change temps or things like that. The device still works without the app, but you lose the convenience factor of being able to monitor or make changes at a distance.
LOL they absolutely don't and mine does not have one or I never would have bought it. I don't buy anything that requires an app to function.
It's kinda nice to just search what you are making, click cook, and all the settings are preloaded and the device starts. The manual interface is clunky.
Size and easy to clean (and waterproof) is one, I have a ChefSteps Joule which is app control only, but it is much easier to clean, and much smaller than my old Anova (fits in a drawer with other crap)
Granted it is more annoying to use the app than the controls, but the trade off for us was worth it, if not for everyone.
They could just use capacitive touch for controls, inferior to buttons but just as cleanable. There's little reason to not have both options
Capacitive touch controls around anything with the potential to generate steam or condensation is an awful idea. At best they just don't work with damp fingers, at worst the buttons short or randomly activate because of the water that builds up.
I have one, and didn't know it had an app.
That’s bullshit
Actively encouraging people to toss perfectly good hardware to fuel their subscription bullshit… and these guys weren’t even recently bought by a VC firm or anything?
They were bought by Electrolux in 2017, and have been enshittifying ever since. Cheaper, lower quality parts, etc. They're just profiting from the brand as they turn it to shit. Never buy their products.
Unrelated but how would you rate sous vide cooking? I am tempted for a bunch of reasons but I'm worried it'll be just another kitchen appliance that I rarely use.
For steaks, they're excellent. About the only thing I haven't been able to do over a good steakhouse restaurant is an extremely crisply outer layer. There's some techniques there that I haven't learned yet that might fix that. Everything else about the juiciness and taste is easily the same or better.
You're basically taking all the art of out it that you would have to learn to become a top steak grill master, and replacing it with precision.
Make sure you dry your steak extremely well, and then basically shallow fry it in a cast iron or other heavy pan. Don't need to deep fry it, but if you really want it as crispy, you want a real layer of oil.
One strength of sous vide is you can get even normal steaks much more tender than otherwise possible, just by extending your sous vide time up to two or three hours.
I was using it for steaks and it's been great - sous vide then cast iron pan - but I moved somewhere where the smoke alarm is extremely sensitive so haven't used it much lately 😞
There are different type of smoke alarms. Some detect smoke. There are two ways of doing that. Near a kitchen area it's usually best to get a completely different one that just uses changes in temperature. Though they will only notify you way matter. So highly recommend keeping the existing one and moving that one somewhere else.
If you're not committed, you don't actually need an appliance for it, have had great results with a Dutch oven and a programmable BBQ thermometer monitoring the water temp. One of my burners goes really low so just a matter of adjusting to keep in range. You don't get forced circulation (get some natural circulation though) and it's not set and forget, but you can do with stuff you probably already have on hand. Done with heavy freezer bags before I was gifted a vacuum sealer.
I would see if there's a way to disable updates for that app.
Do you need the apk to use it at all? Or is it just a little perk to go along with it?
Hopefully, someone hacks the apk so it just keeps working.
I bought one of these years ago, and took a look at it. The app let's you remote control the stick and pick recipes that will autoset the temps. That's about it. The stick has buttons on it, and it's not like you can have it add the food to the water bath remotely. It'd pretty easy to knock in the temp at the heater while you're there
Sous vide is a "set and forget" cooking method like a crockpot. You can walk away and leave the thing running long past the minimum time and have no issues because the whole point is it takes food to an exact temp and no further. So even any alerting "temp reached" it may do now isn't really useful.
This feels like a "pick the carcass" attempt to make some money at all. I expect the company is probably in a bad state if this is the game they are playing.
Yeah. I've used sous vide for a long time myself. Sounds like the whole apk could be replaced with asking the internet what temp to cook X at, and then setting your phones timer for cook time.
"supporting them". I understand bug fixes and the inevitable support end-of-life cycle, etc; I really do. But the reasoning behind abandoning an old, yet in-use product is because you want them to buy a newer alternative.
Translation:
“Fuck you for not replacing your perfectly fine and still working 10 year old machine and making our line go up more. We’re gonna do our best to brick it because we want all of your money.”
Fuck capitalism. I will (and have been) doing my absolute to avoid buying any kind of physical device that requires an app to function
Same. It’s becoming more difficult every day.
And that's so sad. There are a lot of (mainly Elderly people) who don't even have a smartphone who now often can't use the most basic stuff necessary because it needs an app.
A lot of this stuff is only useful if you have money, anyway. And poverty rates among the elderly have been climbing since the Housing Crash of '08
I've said this before, I'm going to say it again: people with money spend it to save time.
Managing 2FA, software updates, account signin, device pairing, billing, privacy policy updates, cookie notices.... This shit does not save people time. It does the complete opposite.
These products are not built for consumers. These products are purely anticompetitive schemes, propping up crappy business models, trying to cash in on the data harvesting gold rush.
I've been screaming this at the top of my lungs for 20 years, and oh my god the "I told you so"'s I get to say now feel SO good.
i mean, I don't have any friends anymore, so mostly im just calling up people who hate me now and saying "I told you so", but, like I DID, so, worth.
I mean, not, like, 'worth' in the sense that anything in my life works or wasn't torn apart by my adherence to materialism and avoidance of dark patterns, but, like, you know, feels good for a few minutes when they haven't changed their number.
they're often built for investors. they are feasible enough products that some people will even buy them, so you get investors. then, the thing is always just "one more issue we need to fix" away from "mass adoption", "for real this time"... to keep milking the investors as long as possible.
if I see something requires an app, no matter how good it is otherwise. the product is dead to me. I know it is, effectively, going to break within a year or two.
I have one of these, and I use it just fine without an app fwiw
you never know for sure until you try though, so if it requires an app, it's dead to me and I don't trust anything else the company makes.
if it has an API i get very wet very fast.
That’s fair, but the point I was trying to make was that I have tried and, for the one I’ve got at least, the app isn’t required. I’m not trying to defend them or anything, I just thought it was worth mentioning.
Tbh I’m kinda glad it doesn’t have an API, because I’d end up wasting a lot of time playing with it haha.
see, if it had an API, I could integrate it into an open smart home app, and it would be cool as FUCK.
About two phone changes ago I never reinstalled the anova app.
It's like pressing the buttons on top of the cooker with extra steps.
yeah there are apps I want on my phone, but if anything says 'there is an app' I'm instantly averse.
even the things I do want phone apps for, I have to browse on fdroid because default options are all terrible. basic shit like file browsers and media players in commercial OS's are just, like, vile and do not function. even if I didn't care about the endoscopes they try to snake up every orifice, they are deliberately nonfunctional.
I'm getting that same way.
Currently trying to chase down some automatic sun shades that don't need an app to do time-based cycles. Shouldn't be this hard, but every band wants you to use absolute garbage apps.
Switchbot (hardware) and home assistant (controlling server) might fit your needs. It still would require an app, but home assistant is self hosted and is a fantastic automation platform. It won't be as smooth as an all in one setup, but I find the tinkering is half the fun.
I've installed so many hardware items that are either "appless" and are controlled by home assistant or home assistant is compatible and replaced the app. Absolutely worth it IMO. I have been able to make a full self hosted/controlled and offline functional smart house.
if its not open source; it doesn't exist.
Yeah, I need to start being better about this. It's a shame because I bought my joule sous vide because I like the simplicity and ability to monitor and program it remotely (helpful when cooking for 5-6h). App stopped working properly and now they've been purchased by breville and if I want to use it I need to switch and I'm guessing it won't be long before they start to drop functionallity or require some sort of subscription. There are things like this where the app is much more than a gimmick. But it sucks to have some company pulling the strings of what you can or can't do with your own hardware.
water+heat proofing is hard, or I'd suggest a DIY solution.
can't just root the sous vide?
I mean it is shitty still, but people with an old device and an account already are unaffected, plus the old devices like the one I have is completely operable offline. I've not connected it to WiFi except when I first got it to check the app out.
Wait
The cooker, It's FUCKING Bluetooth. It doesn't need to call home, it can't call home. The App, It has a list of 35 different sous vide recipes that could live on the app. The app has no business calling home, they don't need a server.
They need if they were to push firmware updates via the app that are then installed over Bluetooth, like some headphones do. But that should be a free service, and also optional. I don't really see any groundbreaking functionality added for a device that's basically a submerged motor with a temperature probe.
It's a decade old cooking appliance .
What possible firmware updates could it need at this point?
Firmware updates should not cost a subscription fee and could open them up to lawsuits.
Temperature Temperature set point Deadband Heater power Time Display temperature Display time
This can literally be handled with two non-microprocessor integrated circuits and $5 in other electronic Lego components.
It doesn't need firmware. It's a $200 oversized fish tank heater.
Even in that case the app doesn't need to phone home. It doesn't even need an internet connection on its own. You'd have to download the update yourself and then use the app to apply the patch, which is less user friendly to not-so-tech-savy users but possible. Just send an email with the necessary information to users who have subscribed to receive these kind of updates.
And if each did cost them money - they’ve been paid when the stupid thing was purchased!
Yeah, it's a $200 heater. Probably $30 in parts. You can run a small cluster for the profit in a few sales a month.
It's a cooker. Why the hell does it even need bluetooth, let alone an internet connection?
So it can notify you when the water has reached the set temperature or the time you set for cooking is up. Which can be handy. However, I found the BT very weak on my Anova and it would lose connection when I went into my home office a mere 25' away, so I stopped using it. There's actually no need for the water to be up to temperature before you put your food in, and food can sit as long as you want; half the point of sous vide is to be able to hold food at temp without overcooking. So you don't really need the timer either.
I have something similar, but wifi. Never even tried to connect to it, because you just use the buttons to set temp & time.
I can imagine, though, that an app might have buttons for 'eggs', 'yogurt', 'steak', etc. Or maybe let you program temperature-time sequences. Or let you check how much time is left from the next room. Conveniences. Definitely no need for them to phone home, though, except maybe for an ad-driven 'recipe of the week' type thing.
This is the absolute worst possible way for me to first hear about a product and company that I would have otherwise been interested in
Same. I've been thinking of replacing the cheap immersion circulator we have, and was going to go with Anova. This blatant enshittification is enough to make me look elsewhere.
I've had one for years, use it often and honestly didn't know it had an app until today.
Fair point. I just don't like the move, and don't want to support a company doing it. Even putting that aside, it really makes me worried that they're at the point that they're trying to ride on their reputation while increasing profit margins. It makes me think that, if I buy their newer models, they're more likely to cheap out but charge more.
It is utterly bullshit. But is the app required for using the device?
Also
I have one and I can use it without the app
Better make an account in the next 5 days
You can set the temperature and the cook time on the device without having the app at all. The biggest benefit of the app is that you get a notice when the water is to temperature, which for certain more sensitive foods is needed to put the food in. (If you're doing a 24 hour slow cook, it's not really needed, but if you're trying to do something with more precise cooking lengths, you don't want the variance of starting water temp affecting how long the food is in the bath.)
Friendly reminder for others that you can setup this quite easily with home assistant and conditional notification alerts. I do it with my govee. Open. Source. Everything.
I looked into that and you need to build a Bluetooth bridge out of a ESP32. Pretty easy once you have the dev platform set up, but not for your average Joe.
There is an anova integration, but depends on their cloud service. When they stop supporting old devices, they will no longer function.
That's what I understand anyway.
No mine connects right to my pi with Bluetooth already present. Just bridge and go!
Is there a bridge? I'd definitely be interested in that.
Just need to configure Bluetooth and the govee integration.
Whoa! Really! That would be awesome. I couldn't find it at all last time I had it out. Interesting it would use govee though. Is there something special I'd have to do to set that up?
So it's not as bad as it seems, at least.
Unless these people paid a premium for this kind of "smart" device vs. the cost of a basic version.
I think the bigger issue is that they’re bricking all support for the oldest models, trying to force customers to abandon a fully functional device just because they want more money.
The app subscription fee is obnoxious as all get out, but punishing your oldest customers for your profit margins is what’s a bit infuriating.
At least, imo.
Honestly, after a decade of keeping compatibility and stuff, and that the sous vide still works fine without the apk, I don't really see this as much of a big deal. An apk for a sous vide is nearly useless, anyhow. What are you going to do with it?
It’s more about the principle. Why is it ok for a manufacturer to remotely disable a feature that was bought & paid for by a decades worth of customers?
Now that they’ve done it once, what’s stopping future attempts to gin up higher profits using the same tactics?
I don’t think anyone here is angry enough to go all Kid Rock on their Sous Vides, but I do think there are plenty who will look at a different brand when it is time for a replacement.
Well they're on v3 now and this ends the version 1, so I doubt they've sold the v1 for the past 5 years or so, but again, it's not an apk that you need to use it. If it were a device like a garage door opener that let's you open/close or see when the door is opened or closed I'd be bitching up a storm. Same if it were like a door deadbolt to lock/unlock your front door. But a water cooker? What do you need the apk for? It couldn't functionally do anything over bluetooth to be of any help.
Would you buy a refrigerator from a manufacturer that wanted to make the ice maker a subscription service out of nowhere?
I get that the app isn’t a requirement for the device, but neither is an ice maker required for a refrigerator to function as designed.
They’re both features advertised as part of the original purchase price. Why does one get an expiration date out of the blue?
The people who are likely to be losing Bluetooth functionality are also the most likely to be from the original kickstarter batch.
Even if some-many of them have already upgraded to a newer model, that’s still one hell of a statement to make to your original backers.
Your analogy is terrible. The cooker still works. Does the icemaker still work without the apk? If so, then what good is the apk on an icemaker in a fridge?
My analogy isn’t terrible, it’s spot fucking on. You just use the ice maker & wouldn’t want to lose it so you’ve attached more value to it than the Anova App.
Does the refrigerator not refrigerate without the ice maker? You didn’t buy an ice maker, you bought a refrigerator.
No one is pissed about the device not working. People are pissed that Anova is taking away a FEATURE.
Anova App = Feature included in original purchase price
Ice Maker = Feature included in original purchase price.
This isn’t about the value of what’s being taken away. It’s about the principle of taking away something that was already paid for.
If Anova wants a subscription based model, they’re welcome to it, but…
Their current customers did not buy into a subscription model & have the absolute right to be pissed off about being forced into one.
Except, prior to this announcement, there was apparently another statement from Anova that you can’t control the first gen ones.
Lemmy.world needs an internet-of-shit community. This could be a solid first contribution.
It might fall into the remit of @enshittification@lemmy.world
That links to a user for me.
Web link is https://lemmy.world/c/enshittification
Community link: !enshittification@lemmy.world
Sounds like it's time for an open sauce alternative.
I passed on a lot of the fancier apartment buildings for requiring an app and a cell phone to gain access to your own home. I shouldn't have to agree to an arbitration/class action waiver to use my own front door, I don't feel comfortable with management getting a notification on their phone every time I come or go, I don't like the fact that 20+ listed partner companies have access to sensitive personal data, and I shouldn't have to wait for maintenance to show up in the middle of the night because I couldn't make it back home before my personal tracking device died on me.
The sad thing is that most of these locking units cost these apartments hundreds of dollars each on top of a monthly subscription.
What the actual fuck. In what country do you live?
U.S.. Not an actual tracking device, just a cell phone. I usually leave it at home, which would have been impossible to do at many of those buildings.
Isn't that a giant privacy violation? Why does anyone need to know when you come or go?
"...to maintain the safety and security of the building and everyone in it." - An actual FAQ
Way to make home feel like a prison.
They're just going to push people to the cheaper units at this point.
I was looking at sous vide cookers a few months back and was considering ANOVA but they were too expensive. Opted for a generic one instead.
The fact that they're more expensive and require a subscription for what's essentially a set of presets that my cheap unit has for free is just ridiculous.
Interesting, because when they were relatively new, they were also the cheap option. Sous vide used to be a $1000+ thing. I did a DIY version for around $200, but later Anova came out and it was less sketchy than my box of wires running mains voltage.
Instant Pot seems to make a pretty good one that fits around the sides of their pressure cookers.
Anova's app is basically useless. Could be nice for looking up temperatures and times for specific things, but I usually google it, anyway. Steaks are by far the most common thing I do sous vide, so it's usually preset for that. Never used the app outside of playing with it when I first got it.
One thing is for sure: I won't be recommending Anova to friends anymore.
Instan pot didn't continue to update their app three years ago and I now have a useless Insta pot.
I don't think I ever touched an app for my Insta Pot or its sous vide attachment, but maybe the newer ones have to?
Well... who knows how long until we start getting billed for that, too.
explain how the waterproofing+heatproofing on sous DIY sous vide work. I must know.
Oh, that's just the sealed bag like normal. Back then, I was using special ziploc bags with a port for a small hand pump. They seem to have stopped making those, and I switched to a regular vacuum sealer.
The diy part was the heater/pump. I based it on this:
https://makezine.com/projects/sous-vide-immersion-cooker/
The problem with this design is that because it sits above the hot water, it tends to have a lot of condensation build up inside the housing. So I rebuilt it to have power plugs for the teacup heaters and pump. Then it could be set to the side, and I could use more heaters for larger containers.
I refuse to use one that requires bluetooth or an account. I want to turn the bitch on and go do shit for 4+hr. There's nothing fancy about the process. Some real Ron Popeil shit and they try to force apps on us.
Does it require?
This summer I spent way too much money on a grill with an app. The thing is it’s a smoker so i might run it all day and the app lets me check on it while still doing other stuff all that time.
However the app is an extra, and I would still have all functionality besides removing if the app went away. I’d be pissed losing remote functionality after spending so much money, but I’d still be able to use the grill normally
The big ones did, yeah. They actually just started the requirement while I was looking for one.
I don’t know whether to upvote you for a solid reply, or downvote the lack of functionality without an app
Were gonna need to pirate sous vides now
Other than my computer, phone and xbox, I own nothing at all that can connect to the Internet. It's incredibly stupid.
I have a smart TV and a Bluray player as well, but other than that, only phones, computers, and my Switch connect to the internet. My next TV will likely not be smart, because screw ads, and I've ripped all of my Blurays.
I've stopped buying TVs. It's difficult to find a dumb one nowadays. I watch on my phone or my computer monitor.
I just dont connect the TV to the internet and hook a separate media center up to the HDMI port.
Would be nice, but I have kids, and it's really hard to watch a movie together on a phone. I need another soon-ish, so I'm going to look into hospitality TVs and projectors.
Why not just buy a TV and not connect it to the internet?
That's the backup plan, yes. I haven't looked at newer TVs recently, but I wouldn't be surprised if they still had some kind of ads even if they don't connect to the internet, or they require connecting to the internet to activate the TV or something dumb like that.
My current TV only connects for Netflix, and I'm this close to cutting that out (just need my wife to finish her series). Everything else is on my Jellyfin server, and if I can get everyone to switch to that, I won't need any kind of internet connection for the TV.
My last two TVs were dumb ones.
It is getting harder find dumb TVs because the smart stuff included with most TVs subsidizes keeping the initial price low. Manufactures are betting millions of dollars purchasers will sign up for the monthly apps.
Buy smart TV. Open the back. Remove WiFi card.
Purchase cheap Chinese mini PC, put Kodi on it.
That's all you need
That's not always easy, sometimes the WiFi is on the board itself and not just an add-in card. Or you get annoying warnings or something on the TV.
Commercial TVs will probably last a lot longer than regular retail TVs, so if I'm not going to be using all the features of the TV, I might as well spend a bit more and get something that'll last.
Why does a Blu-ray player need to connect to the Internet?
It can play Netflix and a few other streaming services. But more importantly, I was able to stream videos to it through DLNA.
Oh, that's cool!
Bd players need internet as they only have keys for the discs made before they were made. So if you stick a newer disc in it won't play until it gets updated.
I own some things that can, but that doesn't mean they do.
My bloody dishwasher asked for my wifi password when I first connected it.
Oh ffs.. This is the one I have..
And, you know what? The firmware sucks.
You can't even connect to wifi if you have two AP's with the same name (which is literally everyone).
I haven't even installed the app in ages because it's a PITA and has never worked 100%.
But, they can guarantee my next one won't be an anova again. There are much cheaper alternatives now
I'd recommend anova brand
Oi bruv, it's anova kitchin appluiance asking for moy woyfoy passwood.
Damn autocorrect was fighting me on every word lol
Fuck everything about this, but at least they have the decency not to pull the rug on people who bought it without this stupidity.
The only real benefit of the app to me is the push notifications, but losing those would be douchey. It would be far better to allow that basic functionality and put all the recipe shit behind the wall.
yeah...ummm...no
I have one of their's that can connect to your phone. It's not needed, it just adds extra cook book functions. It even hosts it so you can control the sous vide when you're not at home, almost like a reverse proxy.
But yea the physical buttons work fine without the app.
My car works fine without a seat warmer, but if you sold it to me as part of the car then later it started charging me a subscription I'd be pretty pissed.
Yeah, I barely use the app, but this is a bullshit anti-consumer move that leaves me with zero reason to trust the company going forward.
What I like about having the Bluetooth connection to the app, is mostly just to see when the water has come up to temperature.
But that was apparently too much to ask, since it says that they are also removing the Bluetooth functionality from the app...
You wouldn't download a sous vide
The wifi ones work with Home Assistant so you won't lose remote features. The bad news is you have to run home assistant and set it up.
As for the BT only version you need more work and a BT proxy. https://community.home-assistant.io/t/anova-ble-control-via-ble-proxy/550295
The original models will. While Home assistant has an Anova integration, it is cloud dependent and it's the cloud that will discontinue support. As I understand it.
Local control uses a Bluetooth bridge which I guess is my next project.
BT Proxy Bridges are super easy to make. Just flash a esp32 with the premade package and power it. I have one on every room of my house just so whatever I have will just work everywhere.
Yup! I have the stuff, just haven't gotten around to flashing one yet. Working on a wind meter at the moment.
This is lemmy and so I understand it but flashing an esp32 is not super easy for 99.9% of the population.
True but this was in response to the previous post where they stated that are about to make one. My original post I stated the BT proxy is more work.
I have never bought an appliance or physical product that requires an app to use, and I never will until our society has deteriorated to the the point where there is no alternative to that in order to get by in it. It's almost at that point already with smartphones but for now it's still possible to get by without one.
I personally think it's perfectly reasonable for a company to eventually start charging for a service they provide that costs them money to provide. They might bakenin some number of years into the product price, but they can't keep providing the service for free forever.
It seems like something that should be expected if we do want certain services to be provided and maintained. Heck, I also think that offering a subscription is better than the usual alternative, which is that the company just shuts the service down.
However, the way this is done is almost always slimy and shitty and likely is only going to get solved by regulation.
Should be a no-brainer.
Part of the problem comes when companies go out of their way to provide a service on their end that could be covered reasonably easily on the consumer's side of things. Why put a few cents worth of storage in a device and make it locally accessible when you can make it cloud-connected and hosted to turn it into a revenue stream?
Another example, GM has had OnStar for ages. It does the same things your cell phone does, so it's hard to justify the subscription. Plus Android Auto/Car Play works really well and relies on something you update more often. So naturally, GM revamped their infotainment to do the things you'd have your phone do and got rid of Android Auto/Car Play.
It's all pure CEO bullshit though, and none of it is real.
It doesn't cost money to send a Bluetooth signal from your phone to a sous vide. Maybe the WiFi server costs money but it's their own fault for adding stupid functionality that phones home.
I've got one of these and I'm prepared to bet money that almost all of their server costs come down to every recipe in the app just being a link to a web page with lots of photos. https://recipes.anovaculinary.com/
Thing is they needed to factor this j to the cost of selling the device.
It basically costs them nothing to ru the service for this device. If they failed to calculate that as part of the sale price, that’s not the consumers fault.
2$/month for a fucking thermostat....
I wish people would stop threatening companies switching to subscription that they'll lose business. The c-suite know they'll lose much of the current customer base. They're banking on the data telling them that the market acceptance of their product is gaining traction with new customers.
That will float them until they tell grandfathered users to go screw themselves and will face all sorts of new charges to use their app as previously established.
This is what happens when you have companies run by MBAs and lawyers. They respond to the data, and as long as the data says any negative responses can be overcome in some other way, they'll do it. They don't care about their clientele (or their employees for that matter). They care about the extra millions of dollars they were promised for the degrees they paid for.
Start finding alternate solutions to any product that connects to the internet. Then they can't spy on you or handcuff a sub fee to their product.
Enshittification strikes again. 🤬
someone can just make a cracked version people can sideload
I bet the app requires cloud hosting for it to run, and its starting to eat away at the profits they made.
If it needs nothing but bluetooth, then this a pure money grab.
Usually, if it needs cloud hosting, it's because they're collecting your data. That presumably is a revenue stream for them.
I have one of these, and I haven't touched the app. Works perfectly fine without it.
It use to operate only off of Bluetooth, & then they added single band WiFi. They just added dual band WiFi as a new feature & are now removing Bluetooth functionality completely.
Absolutely a cash grab.
I will never throw a brick through the headquarters of Anova, nor would I advocate for others doing it.
I have two Anova cookers and have never needed the app fwiw
I honestly didn't know there was an app and use mine a few times a month.
Guess inkbird are going to get recommended a lot more...
Are they good?
I have an Inkbird & really like it. Significantly less expensive than Annova, offers all of the same features from what I can tell, & it’s never given me any issues.
The app is of course a bit clunky & ultimately unnecessary, but it does actually function as advertised.
I don't actually own any of their products but the bbq community generally speaks very highly of it. I figure whenever my current SV stick dies (not an ANOVA, it's a knockoff from Aldi lol), I need a backup so I've kept an eye on the market...
For those of us on Android, can't we download the old APK which still talks Bluetooth and just never interact with the web/wifi for these?
The app phones home to access recipes.
Maybe it works without access to the server, but maybe it just refuses to do anything.
I own one of these, and I honestly forgot there was an app. There's literally no reason for it, outside of the timed-start mode that I never use.
Honestly, the biggest mistake was making this an IoT device to begin with.
I have one of these. The sous vide cooker itself is very nice and easy to use, I’d highly recommend it. The app is a bit clunky and not necessary to use the device. I certainly wouldn’t pay $2 a month for it.
The app lets you set a temperature and cook time, but you can also do this using the buttons on the cooker. Sometimes the WiFi pairing is finicky, so honestly I skip the app half the time. The app also lets you view and write recipes. I guess the big advantage is you can click “start cooking” and it automatically sets the device temp and time, but doing it manually isn’t much harder. I’m also not wowed by the in-app recipe selection, and generally just get recipes from the internet.
They do this, because plebs pay...
There is a lesson in there
“Be evil so they have to stomp us out” shouldn’t be a standard. Stop allowing a world that rewards villains. Stop being a villain.
Coulda woulda shoulda...
People either accept the reality and act on it or keep getting fucked over because the world "shouldn't work like this"
Speak for yourself, snowflake. The world isn’t a safe place for shitheads to be shitheads. Culpability doesn’t make you a victim.
lolwat?
Lol. Hell no.
Cost or no cost, IoT should not be able to brick devices on the whim - or unexpected dissolution - of a faceless corporation.
Unfortunately too many people are trusting of monolithic entities which promise the moon and then decide what they really meant was "bend over".
I may be channelling a bit of Louis Rossman here.
That said, the other comments here suggest that the device in question still has all features when accessed from the front panel, which is a step up from a lot of other IoT behaviour. Owners who don't want to pay for the app should still disconnect it from any connectivity and keep it that way just in case the manufacturer decides to remove that functionality as well.
And if it stops working altogether without network connectivity, take the L and maybe mail it back to the company's head office with no return address. Let them deal with the e-waste.
LOL, nice one.
I was given one of those. I tried the app once and immediately uninstalled it. It's worthless. The "let's put AI in your computer mouse, toothbrush, and toilet scrubber!" of ten years ago.
Y'all should read Unauthorized Bread from Cory Doctorow. This hits so close to home.
Lame move. That being said, I never use the app. It's very easy to set the temperature without it.
Oof, you too with the enshittificafion and planned obsolescence, Anova?
Ten years before they pulled this. Hopefully the cookers can be used without the app.
The funniest thing about this is a anovas app is practically f****** useless.
It has maybe two thirds of the things I ever want to cook in it. I end up looking times and temperatures up on the internet anyway. And it's maximum utility is to set the temperature and timer which you can do from the unit itself easily. Honestly more easily.
This right here. The app is absolutely useless and unnecessary. Just don't use it.
My new microwave rotates for free!!. The 9 dollar MW subscription gets me 500W, the 15 dollar gets me 1500W and with the $30 monthly subscription I can get 3000W! It's wonderful!
I mean they can ask, lol
I forgot my ANOVA when I moved this summer. Now, I'm not that sorry I did.
Honestly the Bluetooth app is dog shit. Haven't used it in years because it's far easier to just roll the dial. ANOVA should be paying me for distress.
First Inwas like Yeeeah to all the "smart stuff". But more and more I'm thinking - what happens to current cars after some time? When all the connected crap gets disconnected? Currently you can fix and drive any old piece of junk and drive it in theory forever. What happens when the smart cars lose connection to mothership? What happens when all the electronics go bad and there is no way to fix it? Same goes for your fridge, coffee maker, etc.
In the long run, having it all running Free Software is the only way to ensure it can be supported indefinitely. I have a zero-tolerance policy against proprietary software in my devices, and you should too.
I used the app once when I first got mine and never needed it again. I haven’t had a need for it as I start it, and then come back later. If I need a timer I can set one on my phone.
You know, This kind of shit happens so frequently anymore that if you're dumb enough to buy things that, for absolutely no reason, requires an internet connection and/or an app.. Then you deserve what you get.
Yes let's make this the consumers' fault, what with their limitless power in this dystopian fuckscape
"Its not my fault that I bought a stupid device for $$$Texas more than a normal product and created the market for it, its their fault for making it available for me to choose to buy!"
Gross oversimplification of a complex issue by a corpo bootlicker? Color me shocked...
They control the market, idiot. As well as the regulatory mechanisms for it.
Yes, because a corpo bootlicker is gonna tell you to stop buying their overpriced crap and creating a market for it
Cause corpo bootlickers are notorious for wanting to harm the companies that do stupid and/or bad
Fucking galaxy brain over here, thinking hes a genius cause hes a literal parrot repeating tidbits of what other people said without any consideration for thought or context.
You can't keep throwing money at these awful companies, buying these awful products, and expect them to fucking stop. at some point you're gonna have to fucking admit you're gonna have to make a sacrifice and actually fucking speak with your wallet.
There there, you are very smart, now piss off
It's sometimes hard to find, I needed a new stove, all the ones I could afford and that had what we needed had a fucking internet connection. I fucking hate it.
I'm not being sarcastic or attacking or anything, but I find that hard to believe. I spent 2 minutes before posting this looking at ranges and ovens (I dont know if you're talking about a complete stove unit (burners on top of an oven in a self contained stand alone package) or the oven unit that mounts into a wall, so I looked at both in that time) and I found tons that were cheap (well, cheap as far as these devices ago at least) and none of them had smart connectivity.
It wasnt until I was getting into the high cost items that were $5000+ that smart stuff started appearing.
I wish! The entire range is what we needed, had to be propane compatible, it was around 1k, at home depot. I genuinely try to avoid IoT bull shit.
Almost all ranges are propane compatible but will require the effort of installing the (included) propane conversion kit. The exception is Frigidaire, where the kit has to be purchased separately.
FYI, most of Whirlpool's range lineup (including Amana, Maytag and the non-"Pro" KitchenAid models), all of Frigidaire's range lineup, most of GE's base line range lineup (not Profile or Café) do not have Wi-Fi capability. It's mostly Samsung and LG pathologically putting connectivity into everything they make.
What features did you need that you couldn't avoid connectivity? I just queried my own product database and came up with 202 models that are LP compatible without purchase of a kit and do not have Wi-Fi capability. 261 if you're willing to countenance Frigidaire. And even among most of those that do have connectivity (KitchenAid's "Pro" models being an irritating exception) you don't need to connect to Wi-Fi or use the app for any functionality of the appliance; it's just an extra.
I'm happy you were able to find all those example. I couldn't. It's too late in any case.
Are you shopping at best buy?
No, home depot.
Find a scratch and dent place near you. Thats pretty much where I get all my appliances. Often the cosmetic issues are not even noticable, and if they are, they are often in a place that you wont see since they'll be hidden by cabinets or what have you.
I'm quite remote, there aren't very many options where I am, otherwise that would have been a great option. But whatever it was, it would have had to be compatible with propane which makes it a bit trickier.
Username checks out
Hey, I may be a random idiot, but I've never fuckin paid a 300%+ premium for a smart device, nor cried when it predictably either died early or started charging for use because corporate fuckery.
You had the choice to not buy it, You can not in the year 2024, not be aware of how this shit always, inevitably goes down.
It's not unreasonable to start charging for an app like that if it is under active maintenance, that costs money for the company after all.
But the lesson for the consumer is: Don't buy tools that rely on apps or servers ran by someone else unless you want to eventually start paying rent..
You realize all these people bought the thing before the app and subscription existed, right?
Something so simple shouldn't require maintenance.
Imagine buying a devices that makes you install a program on a device you have to keep on you at all times and which probably contains all of your personal and financial information.
Like 98% of the human race are absolute fucking morons.
Think about it after 10 years either the app is not supported by your operating system or their server is offline.
I need to gadget that's works with flip of switch and has all the functions offline even after 10 years.
If people don't understand this facts they are morons.