Is this even legal?
I just got this popup while playing New vegas. I don't even use chrome, i've switched to firefox. How can this be allowed? Also, this is Win10
I just got this popup while playing New vegas. I don't even use chrome, i've switched to firefox. How can this be allowed? Also, this is Win10
If governments actually gave a fuck about antitrust anymore, it would be. 20-ish years ago, they dragged Microsoft to court over simply bundling IE with Windows. It didn't even constantly nag you to set as default; just the fact that it was bundled at all was enough to make it into the sights of regulators.
Dumb question but how would you get your browser of choice if they didn’t include one from the jump?
At the time, you'd get a disk from a store or order it from a magazine or whatever. I don't really know what the solution would be now since those aren't things though. I guess get one from a friend or another device?
If they didn’t bundle safari on a mac or firefox on linux, there are terminal commands to install firefox and chrome on both.
There is a command for windows via their built in package manager apparently, but I can’t confirm that.
Yea, winget is the build in windows package manager.
I started using that pretty frequently and a lot of software is on it, though it does lack some features like version pinning.
There is a website to explore the available packages at winget.run, which makes it a bit easier to use.
I believe it contained multiple browser installers and let you pick one.
Cd or usb
Microsoft clearly uses dark patterns and FUD to lure you into using Bing.
As long as they're using legal loopholes (or downright do not care because they have enough money to pay any fines) you cannot do anything against it except not using their OS.
I stopped using outlook entirely for this behaviour. Outlook would embed a bing search in your long press menu on android.
What kind of long press menu? I have it installed but don't have any such menu.
Highlight some text in your browser or an app
Yea I don't see it
If you press the 3dots does it show in a list?
I don't have whatever other apps are showing in that list so it was showing up first
This is all I have.
Microsoft rolling out different misfeatures to different users would be some next-level gaslighting. I would not put that past them.
Oh God, that was so annoying! Once I realized which app had added that, I uninstalled it with alacrity. I have to use Outlook for my job, but that doesn't mean I'll use the mobile version ever again. And the web-based one actually works fine on mobile devices.
Yeah absolute pisstake. I've moved to Proton Mail and forward any left to transfer emails and use the outlook lite app to manage it, it's actually not that bad.
MS is a spam company and it's turned me into a daily Linux user.
Ironic, because I used to use Bing (over Google) and all this kind of bullshit - especially aggressively pushing their chat bot - pushed me away (to DDG).
I mean, it depends on your design of the fines. If you ask for a days revenue per day of violation, this stuff will never happen again (since this is no mistake, it is totally fair price). A month of this and their yearly profit is in the government hand.
It's getting REALLY difficult to tell normal operation and viruses apart.
I think you're confusing virus and malware. Windows is malware by definition. I think according to gnu philosophy any proprietary software is malware because features are designed to make profits and not to service the end user.
thanks again Richard
Because in all practical senses, windows is a virus.
Viruses at their core are programs which do things against your will on your own machine. Which is bad.
However, that is exactly what windows does. But like the boiling frog, people for some reason are okay with more bullshit from Microsoft and less control of their own devices with every passing update and year.
Complaining on
redditsocial media does nothing. Switching to Linux gives you back control and will be better for everyone in the long run.Who’s complaining on Reddit?
This isn't reddit?
We don't speak of it since the great purge.
Plenty of people, but I'm not sure why they would bring it up here on Technology@lemmy.world of all places.
Is this an attack or a Windows update?
Maybe I'm missing something, but why would this be illegal?
Anti consumer and anti competitive. Using their position as the OS to bug the living shit out of you to use their services
I'm not so sure how it's either of those things. I mean yeah, it's annoying (especially if it's popping up while you're playing a game), but I don't feel like it's crossing either of these lines. If you click "Don't switch", it goes away, and it's not changing anything without your permission. I've never seen it pop up again on my devices. I forget where in the settings it would be, but I seem to recall there being an option to disable suggestions like this, as well (although an argument could be made that this should be opt-in instead of opt-out).
I know this community has a (largely justified) hate-boner for big tech companies, but not every annoyance is a crime. If anything, I'm just glad to see that they're at least respecting the user's consent these days; in the before times, Microsoft would just revert all your shit to what they wanted, whether you liked it or not, permission be damned. I lost track of how many WinXP updates would reinstall that Bing Bar (or MSN or whatever they called it back then) without asking me.
Unless there's another angle that I'm not seeing, I don't see how this is that much of a problem. If anything, it's a good advertisement for Linux, though.
I'm not even remotely a legal expert and I don't know what type of popup that is but I think the anti-competitive piece is "could Google use the same technique to push the user to switch to google search on Edge or not?".
If this was an ad from a web page OP had opened or from the game and if clicking "Yes" only directed the user to a site with instructions on how to switch default search engine on Chrome, then yes, obnoxious but probably fair. Google could strike a deal with the game developers to push their search engine to Edge users or buy an ad. Someone writing a new browser or search engine will probably have considerably less money than Google but could reasonably do something similar to try and gain market share.
On the other hand, if that popup comes from Windows itself and especially if clicking "Yes" directly changes Chrome's settings, then this is Microsoft using their ubiquitous (on desktops) OS to nudge more users to switch a competitor's browser to their own search engine. Google, or even less a new competitor. would probably not have the same type of OS-level access to switch the settings of a different browser.
Google already does this - and has been for years - use Google Search or Gmail on a non-Google browser and it will "suggest" you use Chrome
Less on edge, but google goes father actually. Google pays Mozilla to make google search the default aearch engine. You could argue thats worse then creating a notification to switch (but doesnt actually do it yet till you allow it to)
Disagree. OS pop-ups are at a much more basic system level than going to a specific site and then it might prompt a pop-up.
In the case of firefox, its not going to a specific site, it would be that way when installed. Its like saying mocrosoft should just outright overwrite the default search engine on amy browser without asking you vs asking you via popup, unless youre saying that the former is better.
Not at all. The difference here is that Google agreed that with Mozilla themselves. They don't overwrite the browser settings when you open Google. I agree with the sentiment that Google should have less influence and alternative search engines should get more space, but Mozilla itself, Google's competitor, is who agreed to have their search engine as the default.
It also comes to mind that Microsoft, again, insists on asking you to change to Bing on Edge every update, even if you already picked a different search engine.
But thats the perspective on the business to business difference. To the end user, its the default regardless, as they didnt have a say in that transaction. It would be on the same bout on those who hate preinstalled codecs and applications, which law wise, led to the creation of Windows N editions.
Even in the linux space, people have differing opinions on preinstalled stuff, and goes deeper with hard line options like no propietary preinstalled stuff and only FOSS
Weren't we talking about companies being anti-competitive? So the competitor dynamics matter here. Also, I don't recall Firefox ever asking you to return to Google or returning to it unprompted if you change your search engine.
They matter between companies, but the pop up is an end user interaction, which also matters.
The topic is a anti conpany to company, and a milder consumer interaction event.
The situation between mozilla and google is pro conpany, but can be seen as more anti consumer as it has a default.
Treating the dealing between companies and consumers as one single entity is not a good way to look at it. By that logic, ISPs are good companies because they coordinate to not compete agaisnt each other when of course that is far from the case. Yes they do matter, but how the power ends up in the consumers end also matters.
I see your point but the deal between Google and Mozilla doesn't prevent people from changing default search engines or even nags them to change back. Firefox even has multiple search engines integrated by default. The only thing that it does is make it so Google will be the preset. So, really, I don't see how the user is being harmed.
I can see many many examples of how bad Microsoft and Google can be. However this one I honestly don't understand: how's Google supporting Mozilla's competing product anti- competitive? Are they forcing Mozilla to do things they don't want in return?
I am a Firefox uaer and on every install on a new machine (or phone) I switch the default search engine to duckduckgo. But for good or for bad Google is the search engine most people use (and would use on FF too even if it wasn't the default). I don't think Google needs to force Firefox 3%-ish market share to use their search engine.
By setting defaults, its the reason why Microsoft was accused for being anti conpetitive by having a default browser installed https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp
And why Windows N version exists
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_editions (look under N/KN in regional variations)
Its why google also for european devices offer a default search engine selection as setting a default is considered anti competiive in EU
https://www.reuters.com/article/eu-google-antitrust-idUSL4N24Y2GY
Using a dominant market position as leverage against competitors, is per definition Anti consumer and anti competitive.
Apart from that, they are basically hijacking a competitors product to show this, which I think if not already illegal, it absolutely should be.
I think this sentiment come from the long history of Microsoft repeatedly breaking and then failing to address antitrust requests. At this point people just assume bas faith.
I remember maybe a decade ago how it seemed a big deal anytime they used their OS monopoly to fuck with 3rd parties alternatives. But yeah, I don't think every popup and annoyance is a crime. There's a fine line they walk to still push their first-party garbage.
It’s about it being annoying or not. Microsoft is in a market position where they can leverage their different departments to heavily upsell you on other services. They have an unfair advantage that shifts the entire market to their favor, thus making it hard for any competitor to keep up or even enter the market.
E.g. they use every service / product they have to integrate Bing, they artificially limit the use of their chat bot to Microsoft Edge, they show Bing advertisements when you visit their competitors sites, they allow you to use Teams for free under certain conditions (if you already bought other products), they use their foot in the door with Microsoft Office / Windows go upsell you on Azure, …, Game Pass, …
I can go on and on. Some of them aren’t necessarily bad on their own. Some are. It paints a pattern of what Microsoft used to be. They actively used their position to try and create market conditions that would break their competitors or make it at least hard for them to even compete. About 15 years ago a lot of folks believed Microsoft had changed and were playing fair (in certain bounds), they invested a lot into open source and were generally a more friendly company. What we are currently witnessing is them going back to their old ways of doing things. Slowly tying everything back together. Probably under the assumption that this time the governments are sleeping and not really regulating it anymore. A lot of that is happening in the somewhat non-regulated cloud market anyways.
Anticompetitive is a matter of antitrust law. Microsoft doesn’t currently have a monopoly on operating systems in the way they did 25 years ago.
Looking online in January they had a 74% share of desktops.
Linux is certainly dominating in the cloud but that doesn't really make much difference here.
74% market share for desktop OS is actually a lot less than I thought. Guess macOS had a solid comeback
From Wikipedia. Not sure when the numbers are from exactly.
Apple has been slowly growing for years. Google took a little with their Chromebooks but they never really took off. Linux continues to grow steadily but is still pretty rare in desktop environments.
It looks like Linux could potentially make up 7.9% of total systems? 5% seems awfully high for bsd, so 'obscure varieties of Linux' likely makes up the bulk of that 5%, right?
Yeah if you follow the link to the source freebsd is 0.01%
Linux is 3.1 and unknown is 3.7 so in all likelyhood that's mostly Linux that they couldn't identify.
Not sure how the data is collected. Often from useragents on websites I think.
Those have to be old. Last I saw chromeOS had overtaken MacOS a few years ago due to Google’s huge push to give chromebooks to schools during the pandemic for remote learning. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56116573
Unless chromeOS just cratered.
It's hard to find numbers but I did find this:
So seem like it has bombed since that article.
Your article suggest it was a boom due to lockdown. Maybe that's faded as kids go back to school.
Just way for the year of the Linux desktop baby!Any second now, any second
it's also notable that Microsoft has no realistic mobile OS of their own, and a huge amount of what used to be done on a desktop OS is now on mobile. Operating an ecommerce site for instance, 65% of the traffic is from mobile phones, even browser vs apps.
According to Rules of the Internet § 12 "if I find something to be annoying, objectionable, or wrong it surely must be illegal."
MS literally got in trouble for bundling IE with the OS 20 years ago... This is so much worse.
If you cannot understand why people are rightfully upset... LEARN YOUR FUCKING HISTORY.
Those days are long gone. Else we'd see Apple and Google getting in trouble for bundling their own apps for everything on their devices.
People can be pissed that multiple different companies are doing things wrong at the same time. The problem is our government has lost its teeth for regulating large businesses
Things were a little bit different in the late 90s though. Windows had a 97% market share and a massive deal with pretty much every computer maker to only put Windows on their pre-built machines. They had a true monopoly in a way that doesn’t exist today.
They also made IE free and bundled with the OS when every other browser at the time you had to buy. On top of that, they made it so that windows would slow down and malfunction if you uninstalled IE, and made installing any other browser a complicated process.
Today you can freely and easily install pretty much any browser you want. Chrome has the hugely dominant share in the the desktop browser market now, despite Edge being bundled with Windows.
On top of that, Microsoft doesn’t have the massive stranglehold on OS market share that they used to. In the desktop space, MacOS is about 1 in 6 computers with Windows holding 71%, mostly in the enterprise sector.
And this doesn’t even factor in that the majority of web traffic is mobile now, where Windows doesn’t even have a presence anymore.
Basically every point you're trying to make about how MS was in the 90's is truer today except for market share.
Why is market share such a critical point when we're suffering from WORSE problems?
Market share matters because Windows was a functional monopoly back then.
Market share matters a whole lot less than people pretend... Yes, "monopoly" requires it, but in reality, in the real world where real things happen, you do NOT NEED a literal monopoly to start suffering from the same problems!
Jeeze, it's like you people want to no-true-scotsman yourselves in to a future where corporations literally own you and your time...
Upset != "Illegal"
They had to separate it you numpty. They literally DID get in trouble because it was illegal. How are you seriously missing this detail?
I've been a Linux warrior since '98. I've hated MS for decades now.
But not everything they do is illegal.
You're talking about the past. Notice you're not explaining how this thing in the present is illegal.
Having some something illegal doesn't mean everything you do is illegal afterwards.
Way to completely and utterly miss the entire point of ethics. Does it HAVE to be illegal for it to be bad when it is WORSE than what they've already gotten in trouble for in the past? Why must I have to point at a law in order to say it shouldn't be?
If you even begin to hate MS, why are you defending them with piss-poor logic?
yes officer, this comment right here.
Because OP is a crybaby.
It’s not, that’s why they’re doing it.
It is illegal - they've already been taken to court and lost over similar practices 20 years ago.
It's just not enforced anymore - and that's why they're doing it.
They were taken to court for bundling a previously paid product (a browser) into their OS for free.
Asking if you want to change your search engine is not the same thing.
One of the many reasons why I will never return to Windows.
I still have to use 10 for work, but on the plus side it's a 5 day per week reminder of just how terrible it is.
In the same boat. and recently of all the issues that could pop up, Teams has decided to become a buggy mess. Their own software on their own OS just stops working after just one year of using the machine.
Not to speak of all the other slowdowns and child-diseases that the thing has developed.
Meanwhile my desktop install of Linux is nearing its 10th birthday, has all sorts of legacy configs that I never bothered to clean up, has moved drives 3 times and to a different filesystem+partitioning scheme, changed bootloader... Yet still is way less of a pain than Windows at work.
What do you use the rest of the time that you prefer? Serious question, because I've been looking at Windows alternatives for a while and I like to hear what's working better for others.
Everything with a GUI runs POP_OS, because I like how much control I have over app windows via the keyboard. When I'm hyperfocused I like not having to take my hands off the keyboard. It has really good tiling too, but I think vanilla Gnome has mostly caught up in that department.
Agreed
I still don't get how Microsoft got in trouble for bundling internet explorer but now they are completely fine doing this
Anti-trust regulation has gotten very toothless in recent years. The shit many corporations are pulling now is insane when you think back about what happened to ms then.
Because that haven't cause any harm I guess? Google was punished for pulling the same stunt with Chrome, but they actually succeeded. Meanwhile, few people i know use Edge right now. My cousin used to advocate for Edge until a Windows update wiped his browser clean
Frustratingly, the rulings preventing them from bundling software with an operating system stopped them from building in anti-virus measures. For years when Windows was synonymous with malware, they had their hands tied. 20 years later, they started including Windows defender / Security Essentials. The unnecessary global economic losses caused were immense.
They will be fine doing this for 5 years, then a new antitrust ruling will tell them to stop, and so on.
What company was it that lost an antitrust lawsuit again? It was something like Macrosoft? Microphone? idr
Lost is a strong word. Shure they lost the suit. But in reality they were just forced to start playing the politics game.
I remember them feeling pretty Blue about it.
Microsuck??
Since everybody on this comm seem to be circlejerking, let me how to tell you how to get rid of this POS. Shit's called BGAupsell and resides in Windows\Temp\MUBSTemp, set yourself as owner of the file via your admin account and then delete it and replace it with an an empty EXE file that you assign ownership to yourself with. Then you write protect it and you're done. If you just delete the dir or the file, it'll come back next major update.
NOW, to really give MS a punch in the dick, you're also going to want to disable the search menu ad as well:
https://www.howtogeek.com/826967/how-to-disable-bing-in-the-windows-11-start-menu/
And all of you fucking *nux newfargs, grow up. Also, don't fucking drink and root you lusers.
Or you just install Linux and be done with it.
Yes, I am THAT guy. It looks and feels like windows, but prettier, nicer, and better. No more corporate rules bullshit, no more anti virus bullshit, no more bullshit.
Yes, most games do work now.
Yes, most windows software has equal or better alternatives, or run natively through wine.
You don't have to put up with Microsoft bullshit.
Get rid of office, Hotmail and teams while you're at it and get working software.
*facepalms in having told the newbie not to drink and root*
You're the reason most of us don't really tell others that we run Linux.
Because...? I've used Linux on desktop for over 20 years now. Yes. I have a multi monitor (3 monitors) setup with a cool looking 3d desktop (bling mostly to show off, make people come for the bling, stay for the awesome computer experience) and I've loved every minute of it.
Every single time I see another one of these posts I tell people to come to Linux, we got cookies
Have fun with your digital Stockholm syndrome and corpo mindshare.
Man, people like you are why we have to call it GNU/Linux. You have no core principles.
Yeah, you clearly are a newbie if you missed the obvious flag that my username presents. I'm a fucking old sysop you nimrod. I know Win, *Nux, Netware not because I want to know, but because my fucking job requires me to know. And you know what you figure out after a while of messing around with all of the crap that exists? Nothing is pure.
So yeah, you be 16 year old me and repeat my own mistakes. Rant about corpo crap without even knowing what a job is. Rant about fucking principles when you still afford them. Also give me the spiel about how FOSS is superior to closed source because arbitrary reasons. If you live long enough, you'll get the nuance to stop spouting crap that doesn't mean shit outside of your bubble.
Seriously, you are literally teenage me. I'm so glad I grew out of this phase. But man, you seriously need to pick up a fucking sysman every once in a while and stop sniffing the farts of the in-crows of popular lin distros.
You sort of missed the point where Linux gives you freedom. Linux is built for users, windows is built for marketing, and it shows. It makes Linux nice for end users and it makes windows nice for the marketing department, sales and the share holders.
Windows SUCKS in it's daily use and even after all these years it's still a Swiss cheese security wise. Yes, people would face issues with Linux too. Of course they will. But it will be a while different class of issues, not caused by a "fuck the user" attitude like Microsoft has it, but issues that will be solved because on Linux people actual care.
Yes, keep rehearsing the old propaganda. Doesn't mean shit to the normie that still uses Windows because they'd rather have support than shitty half or undocumented systems that do shit they're not supposed to at the worst time. For what it's worth, you're completely right. 100%. But reality makes all your right irrelevant. So, rather than fucking around and trying to convert people, maybe just lay off the bullshit and leave them be? Or .. you know, git gud and help out?
I do.
I help people with Linux wherever I can.
I make companies use Linux. My own company uses Linux everywhere, it was built in from the start.
What you're saying is a chicken and egg problem. Companies would love to give support go Linux users but then they need Linux users...
No, companies need frigging assurances. They need timely SLA metered support with seasoned professionals who are certified in their specific areas. The public sector then needs that AND legal coverage as they have a completely different noodle to cook at the end of the day.
And it somehow needs to be a lot cheaper and easier to use for lusers and somehow integrate with everything else.
And all of that can be done with Linux.
One large reason why this is still done so little is Microsoft marketing. Oh I'll admit, Microsoft is kickass at marketing. As bad as their software sucked and keeps sucking, their marketing is awesome and well funded. Linux doesn't have anything that compares but it's own good name.
Microsoft basically lies, cheats, pressures, whatever is needed so that people are locked into their software.
Fuck. Everything. About Microsoft.
No , you just gave up. Stop lying to yourself. You hide behind muh affordability because that's the convenient excuse to use to not think about this.
The status quo will benefit you for giving up entirely and disparaging those who advocate for freedom.
"Teenage me" sounds like a mask off moment for you being a bitter out of touch person. You endorse the status quo and hide it under emotional rants of being more mature than the rest of us.
I'm only commenting to this because I don't want younger folks or to be caught up in your self hate spiral.
Its GNU/Linux because clowns like you exist and won't shut up. People deserve better, they don't deserve someone like you frothing at the mouth at the fact that you don't believe a better world is possible.
You're incredibly lucky that a majority of "Linux"/tech communities tolerate you.
I didn't so much give up as I was forced to reconcile the false narratives posed by the bubble I was living in versus getting the fucking job done at the end of the day. Having to actually work according to legal standards, KPIs, milestones and visions really makes you realize the limitations of certain systems and the pitfalls of them. That only comes with experience.
And I don't fucking *need *communities to tolerate me, because I don't care. Again, you're speaking like some teenager on Twitter that's worried about likes more than someone whose got insight. If I need a *nux server for anything, I'll use it. But I'm not going to let blind FOSS bullshit idealism bar me from getting the job done at the end of the day.
Now, if you had any brains you'd realize that smugly telling windows lusers to switch their OS is only going to piss them off. If you REALLY wanted to be a suave motherfucker, you could tell the users how to fix their shit and then tell them WHY shit like that happens (99% because win is a mono system, which *Nux isn't) and then suggest a distro that would work for a switch, maybe link to some handy guides or shit like that.
But no, you're 16 year old me instead who giggles at Tux memes and tells people to switch when they ask for help. Fucking cringe.
Church
And then again, next update. Cat. And. Mouse.
Meaning? That you need to update software? Of course you do. Even on Linux. But when you do you don't have to reboot, for example. Minor difference caused by a smart filesystem versus whatever the fuck windows uses these days.
They mean Microsoft will keep sneaking things like this into updates. We can stop them installing misfeatures if we know they're coming but Microsoft can at any time just roll out a new update with different adverts in. Unless we stop updating there's no way for us to select between legit updates and unwanted ads.
Yeah. Install Linux, problem solved.
It'll work until they do something else. It's the same old shit as always, update and pray that it holds together and that by the Torvalds none of your fucking repos are deprecated or out of date.
Edit: Hit a fucking nerve with that one haha. Rage harder n00bs. Downvotes don't mean shit here. Go back to Reddit you fucking losers.
The internet needs more people like you.
Excellent instructions, nice clear and to the point.
Nah it doesn’t. He is being a dick. You probably can Google that. He missed the point of the entire topic. Nobody was positing how to remove it because this topic wasn’t about that. If someone would have asked about it in the first place people would probably have provided solutions.
It's shit like this that will eventually drive me away from windows. I was baffled when it appeared.
As someone who was recently driven, leave it. It’s never going to get better, only worse. And linux is only going to get better the more you understand it.
no time like the present, eh ;)
Idk man I'm pretty busy... With... Something less tedious than installing an operating system lol
The penguin is patient and will welcome you when you have the fish / time.
If you are unsure i'd personally would also advice you to start with a dual-boot setup, so you can always temporary switch back if you get frustrated with something (or are under pressure from outside forces to get something done) and dont know how yet.
Normally when you return later with a clear head you'll likely be able to find a solution to your problem that doesnt require you to switch the OS.
Just a suggestion.
Have a nice day anyways!
Once upon a time I dual booted every computer I had. Not sure why I fell out of the habit really.
Jeez. I remember 25 years ago when we reinstalled Windows every 6 months to a year or so as a matter of course. It was literally recommended to do so because of the buildup of cruft and garbage. These days, people can't be bothered to download an iso and press a few "next" buttons.
I'm not going to try and argue that I'm not being lazy, but the actual process of installing the OS is the least onerous part. Software beats it by a mile.
You'd be surprised. Ubuntu is basically download it for free onto USB drive, plug in USB drive, start computer, choose to start Ubuntu from drive, try it out, if you like it click install, and you're done.
+1 on this recommendation. Live distros are definitely the best way to dip your toe in the Linux desktop world without accidentally wrecking your system.
Why wouldn't it be legal? You are using their product and they put out a notification on it asking if you want to use one of their products. Why would that be illegal!?
Like I understand people not liking it, but illegal?
I am pretty sure they are insinuating that it is antitrust violation. It probably is but our current governance seems unwilling to do anything about anti-competitive practices.
Creating a monopoly with a competitive advantage is illegal in Europe.
These posts are just getting insane at this point.
It is illegal in Europe.
What is illegal? Asking you if you want to change your default search engine? That doesn't sound illegal to me so I wonder what law is causing it to be illegal.
They got in trouble for setting internet explorer as the default and had to pop a prompt when you installed windows a while ago.
I don't think asking if you want to is illegal though. But it could be as they are using their ownership of the operating system to push you towards their other products.
“I will make it legal.”
-Darth CEOus
It is because you agreed to to the terms and conditions of the Windows operating system
Those are likely mostly unenforceable.
Run a debloat script for windows from christitustech. And if you want to start from fresh install w10/11 ltsb/ltsc and run the debloat script, that is the safest option, if you don't want to swap to Linux.
I especially love that it was blurry. I shit you not, a blurry popup telling me to switch the search engine like some 2010 malware.
It's only illegal if it's enforced
Everything is legal in the US if you can lobby enough
Not quite. You can also break the law, pay a fraction of what you grifted, say sorry and then continue.
"Microsoft rewards points" wtf?
I'm not entirely sure how I'm earning Microsoft reward points, but they keep sending me $10 Amazon gift cards for them so.. that's cool anyway.
Those are one of the few Microsoft offerings that are actually good. I've been rolling free Game Pass Ultimate for years (with 2+ more in the bank) thanks to MS Rewards.
Wait what? That's pretty cool!
They lost a trial in this allnd paid a flick on the wrist.
They just so this because they know it will get them more than it will cost.
Install Linux, make the switch. Yes you can.
I've been looking into that recently. The last time I ran Linux was in the early 90s, I don't think there was even much of a GUI then, most or all command line, so I have no idea what it's like now. I've been hearing about Mint and Zorin as good distros for Mac/Windows users, but I have been reluctant to ask anywhere because the many conversations I've seen in various forums about which distro is best for a specific scenario have seemed . . . to put it extremely diplomatically, less than constructive.
I've seen it so often that now I am starting to think Linux is the cocaine of all operating systems: great stuff, but with personal side effects. Risk of personal transformation might be worth more than warranted by situation calling for its use. Mention with caution, if at all. And yes, I fully expect to get flamed for this, lol.
I've used Mint for a couple of years now. Gaming has never been better on Linux. It's not perfect and there are still a lot of issues with games that use intrusive anti cheat. It depends on what you like to play. COD type games you may have issues with but almost every single player game works these days. Some times it will require a little fiddling to be fair but generally it only takes 10 min to check what's required. Protondb is your friend if you want a good idea of whether it will work before buying
I'm not much of a gamer so simply using Linux to put old hardware back into use is already more than I'd hoped. I have an old Macbook and per your suggestion just made a Mint Cinnamon boot USB, so I'll have a test machine up and running very soon.
While I'm at it . . . any suggestions as to the best forums in which to ask stupid noob questions?
I will try other distros if I don't like Mint, because if Linux works out, I'm ready to jump ship off Windows and start changing over my more crucial boxes. I just don't see going to Windows 11, not least because I am certain that even operating systems are eventually going to try to trap users into a subscription model, and I am simply not having that shit. It won't happen immediately, but it seems inevitable, so why wait. Thank you again for your recommendations.
Get kubuntu or fedora. The desktop is KDE which feels a lot like windows but nicer and prettier.
If you game on PC, you're going to have a bad time.
Gaming on Linux has never been easier OR better and it’s constantly improving.
No you're not. That was 5-10 years ago.
How does stuff like DLSS or similar work with Proton? I remember reading once that it wasn't a straight forward process. That was a few years ago though, I don't know if it's changed (or if I misunderstood what I read — always a possibility).
I suppose it doesn't matter much to me in the medium term, as I use mission-critical software while WFH, which is Windows only. But Linux-ifying my setup is something that always sounds appealing if I can get over the hurdles.
I don't know about DLSS specifically as I don't have a Nvidia GPU but AMD FSR works fine as long as you use a somewhat new version of Proton. (And FSR isn't limited to AMD GPUs)
Not the full answer but an encouraging detail, thanks for the info!
Valve has pretty much solved this issue for 99% of games. It used to be true, but not anymore.
Downvoters big mad that valve single-handedly made the average person even consider linux to game.
Too bad the 1% are the games I play the most with my friends.
Yeah and you can't play Zelda if you don't have a Switch. Your 1% bullshit is kind of a ridiculous talking point, just saying.
What? I'm just responding to the guy who claimed you can play 99% of games. I didn't make it up myself as an accurate number.
I think it is close to 75% actually. That does not change the fact that you pulled your anecdote out of your ass. There will always be some game on some system or OS that can't be played. The Steam Deck offers by far the most and I don't even own one so I have no stake in it.
Are you high?
What the fuck are you even talking about? Just go back to the peanut gallery cumbutt.
In Europe it isn't. But I got it too. Even worse, my default browser was changed to Bing after an update.
Is this not literally quite almost what their first big antitrust case was all about (shipping their OS together with Internet Explorer, back then) that almost got them broken up by the state?
In a light version, yes.
European here. Which law is this breaking, exactly? Pretty sure advertising is legal
It's no ad, it's nudging. Without being asked even. They don't show you a list of search engines to set as default, they ask you to switch to Bing. My system just switched to Bing without asking.
It's no ad, it's nudging. Without being asked even. They don't show you a list of search engines to set as default, they ask you to switch to Bing. My system just switched to Bing without asking.
The people at Microsoft who remember the ftc action have retired I guess
This shit is why I stopped using windows altogether
Lets just rename this community to MicrosoftTechSupport and be done with it.
Since the antitrust laws don’t exist any more, it’s legal, yes. If you don’t want that, you have to switch to Linux.
The only way to fight them is to ignore their existance. Vote with your money and feet
not in Europe
The funniest thing is that I'm from Europe, my system language isn't English, but this popup still appeard like this.
You are allowed to send ads to your own customers. A bit questionable if that then have to include unsubscribe and doing it when you dont want it. Think if TV makers did the same.
The trick is to slowly add minor amounts of anti-features so users get used to it. Those upset will calm down after a while.
Advertising to customers is one thing but using their own computer they paid for to try and make more money crosses a line. A good dev trys to avoid abusung the power they have over users of their software.
I really don't know why I bother reading the comments on any windows posts. It's just full of Linux users trying to convert people.
It's not going to happen. Most of us use our computers for leisure, not to have to find workarounds for most anything.
This is literally a post of someone trying to find a workaround for a problem that only exists on windows.... A question was asked and an appropriate answer given, if you refuse to accept the answer, thats on you, go read a different post
Yes exactly it's a question about Windows. Saying "use Linux" is not relevant to this post, which is about Windows.
It's also terrible advice.
You're part of the problem. If someone using Windows bugs you so much, go read a different post.
You are setting a stage where corporations can exploit people like you who're naive because they resist change. Change is good. Embrace it! I am not a linux user but I always keep my options open.
That's an odd way of saying "I don't like Arch users"
I don't know why lemmy bothers having a specific instance for PC and Linux if the communities for everything from technology to mildly infuriating is just going to be people bitching about Windows.
Really feels like the quality of lemmy has gone down tbh, you can't go anywhere without someone posting "Windows Bad." The population grew but it was only the ones who cared about the API changes which just so happened to be the Linux community apparently.
I use Linux on everything that's not my main desktop and it still pisses me off to see it just flooding everywhere.
Use Linux and quit worrying about this kind of shit.
And worry about other shit that you have to deal with
Sure. I'd rather deal with Linux's quirks and be spared the spam, spyware, nagware, etc. Also, the operating system itself is a joy to use. It's so lean and configurable, unlike Windows. Whenever I have to use Windows, it's so clunky I feel like a caveman.
Seriously, Linux has a learning curve but the overall design is a thousand times cleaner than modern Windows, you can actually fix shit when it breaks instead of just reinstalling Windows once a year.
curious.. as someone who primarily browses the web, and works with apps like adobe creative suite, office 365, and zoom.. could i still use linux comfortably?
im willing to pick up on new ways do things and i wouldn't even mind if i had the ability to switch back/forth between OS's using the same computer (is that possible?)
Adobe is the killer on your list. There's no proper alternative. There are alternatives, but they're fiddly and quality varies between different programs greatly.
75% of the issue would be solved if somehow the Linux community could convince the Affinity team that we'd all buy a Linux version of their software. Then you'd actually get the holy trinity of "illustrator, photoshop, indesign" alternative with great integration between the three.
But since Linux community is rabid about open source and nothing else, it's not very likely to be happening. So we'll be living under the rock until Adobe does Linux versions of their software (never). The only reasons why I have windows boot is music production, affinity, and some games.
Adobe applications is the only thing on your list that's really really non-Linux. It just won't work. If there's a web version of it, then it will, but desktop versions, absolutely not.
You can dual-boot: when you turn on your computer, you'll have the option to boot into linux or windows. You could boot into windows to do your adobe suite stuff and into linux for everything else - many games work on linux (if that's what you're into). Just check https://www.protondb.com/
There are a lot of dual-booting tutorials out there. Linux is just a core component of the operating system, but the things on top like desktop environment, window management, package/app management, configuration manager, default apps, look and feel, etc. are bundled together into "distributions". For beginners, probably Linux Mint and Ubuntu are your best bet.
You can even look up hardware compatibility using https://linux-hardware.org/?view=search\_computer . But the easiest is to pick Linux Mint or Ubuntu, find a dual-booting tutorial, backup your windows data, and install the chosen distro.
cool man, thank you and @NoMoreCocaine@lemmy.world for the helpful repsonses.. i'll check out the dual boot option.. also i wouldn't even mind using a remote access tool to access a standalone windows based pc if i really needed to.. im getting tired of their ship
I use Linux on my workstation every day and I'm very familiar with it. I still very much prefer Windows for my main PC.
That's like telling a smoker "just stop smoking and you'll be healthier".
A joke will at least get more positive reactions. It may convey the same message. -sad penguin noises-
Did you just tell someone to smile more but in text form?
It is perfectly legal. That's what you get for using and choosing a shitty corporation's useless operating system while harassing GNU/Linux users for decades. Frankly, all of you Microsoft bootlickers are getting what you deserve.
No one but MS wants this. Stop strawmanning people, you dolt. No one hates on Linux for its lack of ads.
But you enable MS's bad behavior. They know you all have no backbone.
There's no strawmanning, just the consequences of endorsing abusive behavior done by parasites.
Don't say "you". You have no idea what we stand for, wish for, or condone. Such pretentiousness should be saved for when you actually know your audience.
Using Microsoft Windows or any of its derivatives is endorsement of that software. Every user of Windows is a sucker. OP's post is not the end nor the start.
Get real, the audience of Windows is an audience of self-enabling victims.
You are still a sucker and perpetuating this broken system. If that makes you angry, it should, the artifice of respectable neo-liberal society was stripped from you.
If Linux didn't manage to somehow be worse than Windows then this would be a problem.
To use Linux is to jog on the highway.
No, you juat nees to pick the correct distro from lile 5 distros. This is as simple as beig able to predict what software you will be running or what will you be doing on what software.
You see, super simple.
Full disclosure, I'm linux user for about 7 years. Only this year I finally switched to only Linux when buying my new PC. And running Ubuntu cuz everyone makes stuff for it and fuck Arch
lmk when I can Baldur's Gate 3, Squad, Planetside 2, Warframe, Valheim, Photoshop, Solidworks, and use VR on Linux.
You can run Baldurs Gate 3 on Linux. Planetside 2 works, Warframe does too, Valheim has a native Linux build, Photoshop runs in Linux using Wine, there are projects showing how to get Solidworks running in Wine.
I don’t know what Squad is and as for VR, I see instructions for SteamVR but I don’t know if that runs well or not.
In the US and never got this popup, not sure if I did something different?
They usually choose a subset of customers to try UI changes on before rolling it out to everyone. This way they can estimate the general reaction before committing to it. They probably also have a dozen different layouts and text for this dialog that they are testing to see what makes people most likely to click yes. Its all just statistics to them.
I am in the EU
That's what I've been wondering too. I keep seeing people complaining about ads, but I use Edge (and Firefox) with Bing regularly on an up-to-date Win 11 system and I'm not seeing anything like that.
Maybe they've got demographic targeting that I don't fit into or something.
Perfectly legal... it's just advertising. If they switch you without your consent then yes it's illegal.
Well...even then it's probably legal. Assuming you're using Windows OS. You've agreed to a long list of bs in terms and conditions. You paid like $200 for a license to rent out an operating system that spies on you and can change anything to it at will.
Some 90s judges don't agree with that
The audacity to even ask! I ain't even bothered by installing genuine versions of Windows anymore. All I'll ever run is AME Windows. It's basically Microsoft Windows but without Microsoft services. They recently changed a lot as they went from distributing ISO files to playbooks. You should definately check it out! https://ameliorated.io/
I don't use windows but I was curious and checked out the website, their proposition looks really interesting
Right? I've loved ever since they starting debloating ISOs and currently am on their last released ISO. Now though, with playbooks, it's a bit more manual and also legal. Despite being in beta, it already looks and works quote well!
I've been curious about this, but I am unsure what to use in place of Defender.
In mind of the developer it's about using your brain rather than relying on a anti-virus. Basically you don't want to download shady stuff or cracks with no verification or testing, and never open a pdf that came in the mail. But yeah, just me on my own I guess.
There was a time when I thought like you. I had no AV until Defender became a thing, and was fine. But these days I keep hearing about more and more exploits targeting your browser, or libraries in the OS that your image viewer might be using, etc etc.
It should not be ... but it seems to be tolerated/ignored by most people ... so it continues.
hack Microsoft simply
" Microsoft Service Agreement"
/shudder
I hate this so much but I want to call out the Google and Apple are just as bad. I used edge for a while and I constantly got popups on every Google owned website telling me how great Chrome is and that I should switch, it was even worse than what you get from Windows telling you to use Edge. And don't even get me started about Safari on iPhones....
Omg this is completely illegal. You need to lawyer up right now!!! Your freedom and liberty is being taken away from you! How can you possibly survive this?
Get Firefox. Problem solved!
This also shows if you have Firefox, source: someone that only uses Firefox and got this message today.
Sorry but I only use brave
Edit: OP is about search engines and not browsers. Can't you guys read?
Which is Chrome under the hood.
How can a search engine be "Chrome under the hood"?
The Brave browser is based on Google's Chromium. Presumably they thought you meant the browser and not the search engine
Eww I'm not touching any browsers based on Chromium
Well that leaves Firefox (and it’s forks, too many to list) and safari to choose from.
Chrome, brave, edge, opera, vivaldi and a few more I can’t remember are based on chromium
Edit: realized my mistake about opera and vivaldi
Opera sold its soul some years ago. It is also chromium based.
I keep hearing this but can’t find any basis for this
Yeah, since 2013. It's in the wikipedia entry
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(web_browser)
I looked it up and corrected my post. Had to change Vivaldi also as it is opera fork.
I honestly thought you were talking about the “opera is owned by china” fud
Back in my day we had to sacrifice a robot to get Netscape Navigator to dial the internet.
Still better than Internet Explorer.
I remember those days. For that matter I remember when the internet didn’t exist. You wanted to talk to more than one person we had party lines on the landline phones and you had to know who you were talking to in order to call or add them to it.
There's always Lynx. Browse the web like it's 1988.
I forgot about that one. But a lot of people on the web won’t use it since it’s not as “innovative as the others” to them.
Cylon infiltrators.
They’re in the frakkin browser!
Lol, this got me by the bubu.
😬