Extremists Call for ‘Civil War’ and ‘Secession’ Over Texas Border Ruling
vice.com
They do this all the time. Maybe Biden should call their bluff, execute his powers as Commander in Chief, and order the National Guard in Texas to turn on State Police.
We'll have to arrange some kind of post wwII Berlin level air campaign to support Austin.
Every 15 minutes a C130 land fully stocked with Trader Joes Chili lime rolled tortilla chips, apple cider, and Joe's O's.
And drop brown bags filled with shit on Ted Cruz and Albots property on the way back. Time management maximized.
Get this person a position in the DLA, we've got bags of shit to drop.
Why would we freely add to Ted Cruz's collection of bags of shit? He'd love that.
Yeah, I thought that’s how he reproduces.
Honestly, Ted Cruz stood before a podium this week and give a speech against the insanity of adding more Razorwire, mentioning that is has done nothing to prevent growing immigration numbers since they started putting it up. Fuck that guy, for real, but on this particular issue he is on our side.
And Telecaster guitars.
I just asked a coworker who emmigrated from there. He'd fully pack a c130 with only coffee and kambucha.
Yeah, heading into the 2018 midterm Trump tried to create a border crisis. It didn't work. This is their election trick, create a lot of smoke, rile up the base, think that it will rile everyone else up.
I mean let's look at the core aspect of Abbott's argument from his statement.
Right out the gate, Abbott is based his ideology on a dissenting opinion. That is, the NON-MAJORITY finding of the court in Arizona v. United States. In fact, Arizona v. United States indicated explicitly that enforcement of the border was the sole privilege of the Federal Government. So right out the gate Abbott is literally using a case that ruled the opposite of the determination he indicated in his statement.
Additionally, Art. I, § 10, C. 3 of the Constitution.
Historically this was used for Native American invasions of property and so the key factor in cases around this is "will not admit of delay". Texas is not burning. No historical read of this section of the Constitution supports immigrants coming into the Nation. By definition as we have it thus far, Texas is not being invaded. Additionally, Scalia's conceptualization of this section, no other Justice has joined in on that understanding. So outside of the opinion of a single justice, a Governor just saying "I'm being invaded! I get to invalidate federal law!" nobody else has ever indicated this is the way it should be read.
With Art. I, § 10, C. 3, you can say "I'm being invaded!" But you still have to follow the law. You can fight invaders and maintain the law of this land, they are not mutually exclusive things, no matter how hard Abbott or Scalia wishes it to be otherwise.
And finally, the Art. IV, § 4 argument.
Again, no court would uphold that Texas is being invaded. But Abbott is adamant about Biden "isn't enforcing…" And the thing is, Governors do not get to legally make that determination. What laws are and are not being enforced by a President is the sole prerogative of the Executive branch. (Wayte v. United States)
The Governor of Texas cannot just unilaterally make a determination that the President isn't XYZing. That's what the court system is for and distinctly the thing that Abbott has lost. If the Governor felt that the President was not holding up their end, they have every right under Article III of the Constitution to take it up there. Which that's what Abbott did and lost. Also, why when he was questioned if his defiance would be upheld by SCOTUS, he merely indicated that he felt the 5th Circuit would uphold it. Meaning, he knows that SCOTUS will overturn any determination the Governor is making on this front.
And with all of that, his core argument has nothing. It's easy to pick apart. Now here's the thing, Gov. Abbott is not stupid in the legal sense. He's quite aware that his determination is unfounded. He's banking on stirring the pot enough to make either Biden do something so that can be plastered all over the place or getting the issue fresh into his base's minds.
And like I said, this is exactly what they did 2018 and lost. Abbott is just trying to get under everyone's skin and he seems determined to spend as much of Texan taxpayers' money in litigation to do that one thing.
Which is good because if we classify border-crossing migrants as "invaders" then not only does that mean really bad things for them, it means Abbott was funneling invaders further inside our borders by paying to bus them to denver or fly them to chicago or whatever else.
It's pretty clear he didn't think the treasonous implications of this particular initiative through very well.
Great analysis. I genuinely think Abbott is also trying to make as much work available to conservative lawyers as possible, like a jobs program for assholes.
I do hope to come across more of your commentary analysis on Lemmy! Thanks for the informative insights.
Please, leave. Don't come crying to us the next time your electrical grid gets overwhelmed.
Hey! Y'all used to rely on us to kick-start y'all's power grids! Back in the '70s and '80s! Back when racism and cocaine reigned supreme!
Now y'all are all like, "ew, why is that racist coke-head talking to me?" Well, it's cuz you're woke or something!
Hey! Listen to me and stop walking away! Why are you taking our American flags?? Hello?
Speaking of power grids, have fun trying to keep yours maintained once you secede, Texas. It barely works as it is now.
I bet it'll run just fine on thoughts and prayers. Good luck to you, ya Yankee heathen!
Oh shoot, my lights ran out of thoughts — gotta switch to the backup prayers...
Really? It seems to be working great. In fact, Texas has the most diverse power generation with nat gas AND coal AND solar (largest national producer) AND wind (largest national producer) AND nuclear. Coupled with the largest oil play in America along with a significant amount of the country’s refining capacity, I think Texas would be just fine in a secession.
As someone who had to wrap my dementia-affected grandmother in blankets and help her sleep next to my mom's fireplace while she randomly woke up yelling out my recently-deceased grandfather's name back in February 2021, I'm gonna say our problem is less about diversification and more about maintenance, infrastructure, oversight, and corruption/improper investments.
There's a wolf going through your neighborhood that can easily get into homes with old alarm systems but easily defeated by updated security. Are you gonna let the wolf eat you because you're so proud of how well you designed your old-ass system and the cool modern features it can mimick, or are you gonna call the fucking alarm company and update your security system no matter the cost?
We keep trying nothing and then saying, "but it won't be so bad this time because we invested more money into the people who failed us last time."
Yep I completely agree there. They didn’t upgrade the plants to be ready for a cold snap back in Feb 21. I was right in the middle of it. Can you confidently say nothing has been done to mitigate it for next time? Because it just hit -10 for three days without a problem.
Yes. Nothing has been done to mitigate it for next time. ERCOT uses weather and manufactured scarcity to drive increased profits as we suffer. They will not willingly fix anything, and there is no mechanism to force them to fix anything.
Abbott is heavily funded by ERCOT. What ERCOT wants, ERCOT gets and Abbott will sit by and placate Texans about it as needed. That's what he's paid by them to do.
When Abbott and ERCOT say "we've done a lot of things to prevent this from happening again. We invested in more generation and winterization", but then point to nothing substantial, what they are saying is they've done nothing to prevent another opportunity for them to manufacture scarcity on the bodies of dead Texans again.
During this latest cold spell last week, which was significantly warmer state-wide than the blackout event, ERCOT issued rolling blackout warnings for three days, warning us that rolling blackouts were possible over and over again. They falsely blamed wind generation short-comings, despite wind advisories and wind storms all week long all over Texas.
They are terrible liars and, instead of pushing back on them, you defend them. Why? Why are you defending vile, grotesque sub-humans who profit on the deaths of fellow Texans?
Every word uttered by a conservative is deception or manipulation. Never, ever believe a conservative. Never.
You're not wrong that some changes were made but the vast majority of investment isn't going into sustainable solution. Texas Monthly recently had an interesting write-up about the nuances as to why the power stayed on this year.
I'm also not sure where you are, but in San Antonio this year, the temperature, precipitation, and duration were all far more forgiving than 2021.
My concern is that, especially with the Texas grid still being privatized, profits will continue to be prioritized over safety and cold weather will soon not be the only killer.
There is always going to be a risk in extreme weather for power issues. I don’t believe increased government regulation is going to help as they are terrible at doing things efficiently and cost effectively. Texas has some of the cheapest power which is great for those of modest means and it would be a shame to change that for those choosing between a meal or their power bill. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
OK since there's always a risk, how about we take away your air conditioning. You don't need it to survive most of the time, so fuck preparing for the rare events, right??
Fucking pathetic.
By your methodology, should we also take away seat belts in cars? I maintain my ac so it is always in working order and ready to handle extreme heat. Also a generator on hand to back it up just in case. Not pathetic my friend, just ready.
Too bad those of modest means can't afford their own generators. But screw them right? Should probably have been born richer.
Who said screw them? I’m not rich. Hard work and sacrifice is what allowed me to do it. They aren’t crazy expensive and buying used is always an option. I’m sure others of modest means could do it too.
How about that mitigation during heatwave just 4 months ago?
https://www.npr.org/2023/09/08/1198520449/the-texas-power-grid-struggles-through-heatwave
Did you forget about those additional rolling blackouts that no one else in the country deals with?
Cough California cough
Funny. Their electric grid is also ran by corrupt buffoons. Almost like there's a running theme here, but only one state is proud of that corruption...
Hey person I am against corruption as much as anyone. All human systems are corruptible and we need to be realistic. To think that “they” are being malicious is probably not correct. I don’t think the many thousand of people involved in the power industry laugh about people dying in extreme weather. Nor the ones at the top. They believe a free market for energy has benefits that outweigh the negatives. If anyone has evidence of real corruption I will gladly pick up my pitchfork and join the party. There are bad apples in almost every bunch and should be rooted out.
You are literally braindead or a mouth piece of corporations. Grow up and get CEO dick out of your mouth.
Got nothing left but to call me names? Cheers man and good luck, you probably need it
What units are you using for your -10?
https://www.chron.com/weather/article/houston-freeze-texas-18610377.php
This is saying lows in the 20s with an all time record of 5 set 90+ years ago.
Your account has only been active on Lemmy for 9 days and every single comment you've made has been downvoted into oblivion. Why is that?
That should be obvious. I’m in the wrong echo chamber
Sure bro, it's not because you're a clown who refuses to acknowledge reality.
Was that your whole comment? What reality am I missing here? I haven’t derided or put down anyone on this site. In fact most people on here seem quite rude. Everyone just gets their undies in a bunch over views that don’t align with theirs.
"Texas' power cannot suck; it's super diverse!" 🤡
That you? ... yeaaahhh... that's not living in reality.
I never said it couldn’t suck. It clearly failed in 2021. But to call it a flat out joke is also wrong.
...
Maybe you just have different definitions for 'suck' and 'great' than the rest of us.
Well, the echo chamber for idiots calls itself X now, so its users have less problems with spelling it.
Shoo, troll.
As a lifelong Texan, please shut the fuck up forever.
Exsquuze me? What’s your problem?
I LIVE HERE
And? These were just facts. I’m not calling for secession nor do I think it is a good idea. Better together than apart.
It's understandable that you think this, having been born in 2022.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis
I think I saw that brochure.
Nah just facts easily findable on the internet
I'm in favor of calling the bluff, but leave it peaceful:
They'll be crying and begging to rejoin the US within a month. They'll be a fourth world hell scape within a year if they don't.
So, basically brexit then.
TexBrex; like texmex but worse.
BBQ fish and chips?
Texit.
I have to say TexBrex is better
Disagree, but I respect your opinion. Can we include TexMix somehow?
This is basically what happened at the beginning of the civil war except the south had much better terms, and the confederates decided to attack a US army base because they're assholes and that's what assholes do. They would absolutely do the same again.
The power dynamic has shifted so much that it would be a 1000x speedrun if they did it again.
And honestly? Let them. Maybe we can do reconstruction properly this time.
The US civil war isn't what civil wars look like in the modern context. There was a boarder and most of the North was safe. That's not what modern civil wars look like. They look like Serbia.
You have to go to work and on your way to work there's someone who's been sniping people for months. The cops won't do anything because "let's go Brandon" or some shit, the mayor no longer has control over the police, and you still have to go to work because you still have to pay for food. So you duck and weave between cars with rotting drivers to get in to your office and you hope you don't get killed today.
Modern civil wars have no borders. They look like mass shootings, car attacks, snipers, bombings, and other random terrorism. Or they look like the Syrian civil war, with 30 different groups all fighting each other aligning with each other sometimes and fighting others, for decades, sometimes aligned with the government and sometimes against it.
The key thing about Texas is that they have a ton of oil. Even assuming a normal war, the US military lives off oil. If it was quick they could probably do it without dipping in to strategic reserves, but what would happen to the oil infrastructure at the start of the war? Damaging that supply could impact the US ability to wage war, so that's not a risk they're going to take.
If anything comes of this beyond Republicans using it to pump up their base, I'll be surprised.
I mean a right wing group opened fire on a electric substation that was barely over a year ago, and we kinda just moved on. We are already somehow in the slow burn of a civil war and there has been several incidents stopped before more destruction could be done.
A modern civil war in America looks like what is happening currently in America. We just don't have a lot of big flashy things happening.
You know other than the record shattering mass murders that occurs at schools and other public places.
Could it get worse? Absolutely. Will it? Who knows. Maybe we do go back to lining up on the borders and shooting each other too.
Right, they opened fire on a couple of substations and no one got hurt.
School shootings are bad but affect a very tiny percentage of the population, really.
It would absolutely get way, way, way worse, and just like what the other person said.
They look like Serbia if you're not a superpower. Rest assured leadership would get hit with drone strikes simultaneously and the war likely wouldn't even start.
The only way a civil war in this country stands a chance is if it's by surprise and given that these people can't it won't shut the fuck up that send unlikely.
There are no leaders. It's just a campaign of stochastic terrorism until everything collapses.
Doesn't matter if they actually lead or if they're figureheads, seeing them rapidly disassembled is the main point.
No, they're doing it now. This is what it looks like to carry out a war by stochastic terrorism. They just keep saying the conspiracy theory shit and doing these stunts and saying, "Our people just need to take matters in to their own hands!" And people carry out random attacks against things with playable deniability that they're leading it.
No one is drone striking Tucker Carlson, and they won't, no matter how many people he kills, how many synagogue or mosque attacks he's responsible for, because he can always just say, "oh, free speech. I didn't plan that. It's just a coincidence that every time there's a mass shootings the person follows my Twitter."
Read up on the Rwandan genocide. This is what they did. They ramped up dehumanizing rehetoric until people hacked their neighbors apart with machetes and locked buildings full of people and set them on fire. It was normal people carrying out the atrocities, but there was enough of a direct connection to end up in the international criminal court. We're in the early stages of the same type of conflict, except we have more guns here.
There's no one to drone strike because every time this happens it's "another lone wolf."
Let's not forget the $53,000,000,000 they would instantly lose from federal funding
There is still the matter of the Constitution saying that states can't do that.
Let the Republican controlled supreme court rule it illegal.
Since when have Replicunts given a shit about the constitution? They treat it like they treat the bible. Twist it into fitting their narrative and ignore the parts that don't.
Texas immediately becomes the newest Narco-State, gets it's own CIA coup and Democrats refuse to make them a state again, forcing them to be a territory.
Its* own CIA.
Some country bumpkin is going to show up with a KIA coupe and all his buddies will shout "yeehaw" at their victory.
Set Texas adrift and you'll see some real invaders from the south.
That would be the 'finding out' part.
Oh man, the cartels would love to hit that from behind.
Unfortunately I think we have too much federal infrastructure in Texas to make it that simple.
NASA is one thing that comes to mind. (Houston would have a pretty big problem then)
There's a US mint in DFW, Houston refines the majority of oil for the US, I think there's some US gold stored in a fort north of Austin, not to mention all the corporations that have HQs like Lockheed Martin. Not sure if all the corporations would be able to get out quickly enough or if those would be tx companies needing an international trade agreement.
There are multiple other mints. Gold is produced and stored in plenty of other areas, and won't be a tenth as important as preppers feel it will be. There are plenty of refineries in California to support the West Coast, and there being less demand for petroleum products would work well with there being less oil supplied from Texas. Corporations are international already.
Let them go have their own stu-topia with their own energy grid.
Yes corporations are international, but they don't have an international trade agreement with the US right now. The military would not take kindly to one of its biggest suppliers suddenly finding itself in a foreign country.
I was looking at Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin on Google maps earlier today, coincidentally. While the headquarters seem to be in Texas I was mostly seeing blips for plants in southern New England. I don't know how accurate that is but I suspect that the plants are more crucial than any office or HQ.
And the US would have no obligation to help unless they decide to sign a defence treaty.
It's like brexit all over again, but even more stupid.
I say let them leave, make PR the 50th state, and then immediately invade Texas and turn it into a territory of the US.
Does Texas have oil?
Yes. We must liberate Texas.
Like so much I think this is the reason these buffoons want to succeed. Then they can claim it as their own.
Biden has immunity. He should just order seal team 6 to execute Texas political leadership.
let them fight it in court for years
Floridian here. I prefer the execution idea - it's a better use of tax dollars than paying for lawyers (GOP donors, of course) to argue on behalf of deeply flawed state executives.
Go ahead. Seceded states don't get electoral votes.
Or federal funding.
they will be pretty lit after the federals decide to pay it a visit tho
I really want for someone to call it out and be like "OK, FINE, SECEDE. GO AHEAD!" and just watch the idiots back down.
Nah, give them back to Mexico.
“We don’t want them, either”; Mexicans, probably.
Mexico will finally build the wall, to stop Texans from jumping the border
"¡Los Mexicanos construiremos el muro, y Estados Unidos va a pagarlo!"
Relevant Cyanide and Happiness
It needs a catchy name, maybe something like "Texit?" Get that on the ballot, see what happens
For a catchy name you could also point that by seceding they can be come the "United States of Systemic Racism". That very nicely initializes to USSR.
I don't get why Biden doesn't do this. The fear is abott will say government over reach and that will be a talking point for the election? How about strong father figure, who enforced the law to keep us united?
You can't let what Republicans say dictate what you do
No matter what Biden does, they're going to do what they're going to do.
Even if he doesn't do the right thing now, they'll just lie some more and do it anyways.
“Meet me in the middle,” says the unjust man.
You take a step towards him. He takes a step back.
“Meet me in the middle,” says the unjust man.
— A. R. Moxon
I see you've negotiated with Republicans before.
Malignant narcissist parents. I got started early.
I guess the flip side of that though is it's really past when everyone should keep trying to reason and compromise with these screaming toddlers. How many times now have we seen this exact thing play out where Republicans act completely unhinged and Democrats treat them with kid gloves and keep offering them compromises and trying to appease them. Fuck em. Ignore them until they cross the line, then come down on them like a ton of bricks. No more playing nice, no more treating them like reasonable adults. Wait until Abbott puts his name on something legally incriminating then send the FBI in to haul him to a jail in DC and try him for sedition. Bonus points if they can swing the death penalty.
I mean, have you ever tried to sink to a toddlers level and get in a screaming match with them?
But sure, ideally we'd start running FDR style Dems again, get some of the 1/3 of the country who doesn't vote regularly, and conservatives can keep screaming into the void while Dems sweep every election that matters.
FDR literally only lost two states in 36, because he was legitimately trying to help the average American.
But the DNC is very open about not wanting that, and after NH I really think they'd go as far as ignoring results in a competitive primary in 2028.
So we're kind of stuck with trying to win over conservatives, that's the only direction the DNC recognizes as valid.
I've given up on winning the game, I'm just trying to lose as little as possible at this point. Definitely doesn't mean I have to like it either.
But the choice is try what we can or check out and watch it all burn down, I'm not ready for that yet.
Edit:
My bad, I didn't realize what you replied to.
I'm saying don't pay attention to what Republicans are threatening to do.
Regardless of what Biden does, they'll find an excuse to do it anyways. Because when Republicans try to explain why they're doing anything, they're almost always lying and just saying what they think the best answer is in the moment.
So Biden should have activated them immediately on title 10.
The longer he waits, the bigger chance a significant amount don't listen. And at that point it's a legit civil war.
Damn straight! As a parent to an actual toddler, sometimes I have to take my son's toys away until he chooses to behave. Does that make me the "bad guy"? Maybe. But it's also part of being an adult.
Ah, another Innuendo Studios fan, I see. Yes, just like he said in "Alt-Right Playbook Ep. 3, 'You Go High, We Go Low'",
This business with the border is another example of them going low, and Biden and Democrats trying to keep the moral high ground.
Fuck that.
The high ground is fighting fascism.
Lincoln tried apeasment leading up to Civil War 1 and all that did was give the South time to build strength.
We just saw how bad of an idea it is to crush an insurrection slowly. And there are shit ton of examples of how well appeasing extremists works worldwide.
As soon as Abbots letter came out, Biden should have activated them under title 10, had them remove any remaining razor wire and the rest of the bullshit. If Abbott tried to move cops or a "militia", then everyone involved should be arrested for sedation.
This isn't normal republican bullshit from a decade ago.
This shit is as serious as conservative extremists make it. Giving in a little just emboldens them, and ignoring them does the same thing.
I say this as a veteran of the US military:
There's a shit ton of US active military who would be willing to overthrow the government for some conservative bullshit.
We can't underestimate them. Even if they're idiots, they're dangerous idiots.
I constantly tell Democrats this, and am constantly met with childish accusations of overreaction.
This country is completely fucked for the simple reason that there is literally no left wing. There is nothing to counter the unjust and illegal maneuvers fascists deploy that democrats are willing to use. It's pathetic.
The Alt-Right Playbook is one of the best video essay series on YouTube 
You gotta counter with a "sure, but here are fair terms and conditions to have a clean break with the US"
I think they'll turn tail when corporations realize they'll be treated as foreign unless they relocate outside of Texas.
Because Democrats don't go in for the same 'Daddy Issues Politics' that Republicans do, and Republicans will never vote for Biden?
I agree, but at the same time, watching fascists get stomped, legally or otherwise, brings me immense joy.
It does to me too, but I also understand why stomping fascists in an election year can be a bad idea.
'Can', of course. It may be that we get to stomp fascists and benefit from it. But I get why it may not happen.
As a Texan who wants nothing to do with these absolute fucking morons, but whose life is directly impacted by their asinine whims: please don't encourage them. I can't afford to leave yet.
They can, and should, be fertilizer. 🌻🌻🌻
I'm in the same situation. People seem to forget that just under half of the 30 million people here aren't conservative and don't want anything to with this
Always nice to know people are looking out for us, right?
Essentially telling a madman with hostages "yeah, do it, pussy. Bet you won't," just to see him reap the consequences, but conveniently forgetting state-wide consequences don't only affect the people you want them to affect.
Here's hoping it just turns out like the last time these jerkoffs talked about secession. Maybe, if we're lucky, we can finally get rid of Abbott. If we're really lucky, maybe his replacement won't be as psychotic, either!
As someone who actually lives here, I would be very hard pressed to find someone who actually thinks secession is a good idea. It has been years since I've met someone who didn't consider it anything more than a joke or bit of (false) trivia.
Be aware that Lemmy is a pretty radically legt place. It isn't where to go if you want nuanced takes on stupid conservative talking points.
Why would anyone want nuanced takes on stupid conservative talking points? They're not worth listening to because they're not grounded in reality or knowledge of how the world works.
You can't have a functional democracy if you don't listen to the other side. That's literally the problem we have right now, a bunch of boomers who scream socialism when you try to feed their starving children or get people access to medical care.
I don't think anyone would disagree with your point, but the other side is literally daring the U.S. military to kill them right now and emitting lout screeching noises. I can't blame anyone for avoiding engagement.
A vocal minority of cockwaffles are daring the federal government to assert its authority.
I'm sure the proportion of conservatives who support this is disappointingly high, but it is not all, or even most (around here). Even if they do support this political fuckery, the transition to a shooting war is not a small leap.
So you want dictatorship. That way there is no opposing side and as long as you agree, everything is good.
I think most rational people would like an opposition party who brings good ideas with solid justification to the table. A group of professional politicians who argue in good faith, working for the betterment of their electorate. People who can at least be respected by the international community, willing to tackle the real problems facing the world as a whole.
If we're talking about dictatorship perhaps it's worth scrutinising the people arguing for total immunity for the president. It's especially worth an in-depth look at the relationships they form with leaders of other nations and the principles they share.
Rural Texas can be pretty crazy. Cities and the immediate surrounding areas are pretty normal and liberal.
I say this all the time, but that's everywhere in the US. When I first moved to Pennsylvania, a friend told me that it was Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, with Alabama in between. Then, later, we moved to Minnesota, and it was the same thing: The Cities, a couple of outliers like Duluth and the college towns, but MAGA signs everywhere else.
If the electoral college didn't make elections so unfair, politics in the US would be more sane, and more liberal.
Yeah, stopped at a gas station out in the middle of nowhere in west Texas, and the old woman at the cash register wouldn't ring up me and my GF because my GF was black. In 2020. A friend almost got in a fight at a bar out in the middle of nowhere in Texas because he had a UT bumper sticker on his truck, and they didn't like "liberals" there.
But, the cities are pretty normal. Have seen police cars painted with rainbows for pride month. A church down the road from me flies a pride flag, etc.
Holy shit, that's insane. Did you get free gas? It's not like you were going to put it back. Also, do you txink she'd have rung up a black couple? Did she object to the mixed couple part? Wild, man.
If we ever end up actually having a civil war, it'll be over this.
The majority will be tired of the minorities bs, and they'll insist on a change.
The minority will insist that in never changes, because they would lose their power if it did, and are unwilling to lose the culture war.
And unstoppable force and an immovable object type scenario.
I'm not so sure about that.
Comparing Austin to Houston (for example) you'll see two quite different mindsets / philosophies going on. And Dallas/Fort Worth seems even different from the two other cities.
former texan... man, they really want it, even if it seems bonzo crazy, they'll try to get it. I'm really pushing fam down there to get out before it gets worse. The GOP doesn't care about winning by the rules, as evinced by Abbot and Paxton's disregard for laws they don't like and recent fights with the - checks notes - yeah the supreme court.....
I can't and won't put anything past the texas conservatives / GOP anywhere at this point, if they have the opportunity to wreck things they will - they don't think consequences through and don't care about patriotism in a sense that most people do. I'd should refer to them as Texas Nationalists.
While this is true, your elected officials are acting as if it's really on the table. You may not be able to find a Texan who says they want secession, but it's not hard to find one who would vote for it.
Gonna be hard to get that FEMA money Texas needs every few years once they secede.
I checked the reaction in r/conservative, and everyone there was supporting Texas on this smh
When weren't they enemies of the USA?
To the surprise of exactly nobody.
Party of law and order /s
They're all in there talking about upholding the constitution when the SCOTUS ruled against them, defending America while accomplishing nothing with their silly razorwire which has had no impact on immigration, calling the US Government Traitors as they themselves actively commit treason.
There is no end to the Irony. They even parrot the line about standing with Abbot even though Abbot can't hardly stand from his wheelchair.
Aside from the jab on Abbot's mobility i agree.
Then again, you pay me 18k per month I'll sit in a wheelchair too.
They do realize that without Texas, the United States will probably never have Republican leadership again for decades at least, right? So if they don't live in Texas, they are kind of screwing themselves.
Probably the best example of irony you’ll ever see: Texas becomes SAFER when illegal immigration increases. Sauce: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2014704117
Lone Star is a review.
Only because they force you to give one star at least.
So they can return to their rightful owner Mexico...right? Right...? 🥺🥺🥺
FAFO Texas.
U.S.C. 18: 111
If they touch a Federal agent, make an example out of them & their immediate supervisor via a Conspiracy charge.
I don't think there is a single legal expert that doesn't agree Biden has full authority to shut Abott down, especially since even the supreme court agrees with Biden.
Like what is even the problem here? Abott is killing international asylum seekers by placing razor wire in contested zones.
If Canada placed razor wire on their border and started shooting and deporting Americans, we'd be talking about the ethics of using nukes.
I'm ready to beat the conservatives in Civil War 2, tbh. It sounds easier to deal with them now than watch the slow decline of the USA.
A second civil war would look nothing like the last one.
It’d look more like the Troubles in Ireland; with lots of terrorist attacks rather than well-defined battles. It would be neighbor-on-neighbor violence. A bunch of small paramilitaries running around ganking everyone else.
Republicans overestimate their own size. They're not the 46.8% of Voters who voted Trump in 2020, they are a fraction of the 22.09% of total Americans. They will be crushed by the overwhelming nonpartisan majority in the case of open warfare.
While my heart sinks for the effected families, there has never been an easier time to uproot your life and leave Texas, Florida, or anywhere else. I myself have been planning to leave North Dakota for several years now.
Guess the point I’m trying to make is that any civil war that breaks out in the us is going to be a fucking bloodbath. There won’t be territory, or battle lines to get on the right side of (or just away from). There won’t be any where for civilians to go. Every city will be engulfed in insanity.
Nobody wins. It doesn’t matter who comes out in control, there will be no winners. Only death, destruction.
It'll be chaos, and then it'll be martial law. When there are no clean sides, no obvious distinction or front lines, entire cities/regions become internment camps. Everyone is suspect. Anyone could be one of them.
Scenes like this;
Persons with last names starting from CH to DO have the next 2 hours to do their weekly shopping, anyone without correct identification, displayed on their chest, is subject to arrest and indefinite imprisonment. Resistance will not be tolerated, try, defy and it'll be the last time. Don't be a hero, citizen, c'mon, keep the line moving. No talking to those not in your party. Don't wander off the yellow line or the autosentries will turn you into a hazy pink mist. BRRRRAPP
If America balkanizes (cuz if we split, it won't be into 2 it'll be into several) there will never be peace in North America in any of our lifetimes. Those who are chomping the bit for it might do well to remember that of all the multipronged wars in history I don't think there's been a single one that was won by any of the original starting factions. So whomever is around at the beginning, that side, all those sides, have already lost. We just don't know what terror will be birthed from their corpses that finally takes over.
Exactly.
But I also don’t think they have the resources to maintain martial law everywhere.
War monguls will. And they're American, too!
I realize I'm the asshole for saying this, but we will have culled weakness from the herd by engaging with the traitors in combat, and the suffering there as a result very well may be lower than the suffering incurred by letting them continue their insanity for decades to come before they inevitably die off due to generational progress.
The real question is basically whether the pain is endured by us all or only their less fortunate targets. I am not afraid to share the suffering.
Wow, you actually said that.
Imagine if more people stood up against the Nazis in the same manner. Do you think the Germans' slow cascade into madness was a better alternative than war in the streets?
Because the Nazis totally just started with a civil war. If that's what had happened, Nazis Germany would have collapsed in on itself, and not been able to do what they did. a hypothetical second US civil war is not even close to the same thing.
You somehow stumbled into a perfect understanding of what my stance is while not understanding that it is my stance.
The Nazis didn't start with a civil war, it started with fascism's slow rise to power as they began singling out minorities one at a time and the populace did fucking nothing about it until it was too late. That was my entire argument, that our options might soon between Civil War or a Fascist White Nationalist State. The collapse of Germany would have been preferable to the events of WWII.
Ok bye.
No, not "bye".
Ok, leave!
Don't want to be part of the Union? Fine. Get the fuck out.
Yeah but like leave America, not Texas. That's ours. Leave to Russia or some other authoritarian shit hole.
Yeah, that was implicit.
Maybe we should let them try, huh? I give it maybe a month before all their net-taker money runs out and their dipshit Republican policies turn the whole place into Mad fuckin' Max.
I would love to see how fast they fold without federal money if I didn't also know who it'd hurt the most
I guess Texas doesn't understand they don't have an army, but the US government already has a massive base right in the center of Texas.
They can secede and then ask the US and Mexico for aid when they collapse, but there won't be a civil war. Idiots.
Did Texas get rid of their national guard? I thought they were just there.
Each state has a National Guard unit, but it's still part of the US Army. That's what it's called a National Guard.
So you're not aware that while National Guard can be called for active service they are actually under the control of the governor?
They actually do have an army. Most states have a state guard or reserves/militia.
Edit: I did research and the state guards are branches of the national guard placed under the control of the state. Meaning that they are in the U.S. army, as the other user states.
Those are US Army soldiers, paid by the US government. Control of the state reserves is only delegated to the Governor, because that makes sense. The individual governors can freely send them to areas which are in need. But the President can take back control at any time. If the governor of Texas decided to take the reserves under his direction and attack the US, they'd be placed right back under US control.
They are not a "Texas" army. They are part of the US Army delegated to Texas.
I have researched it and I was mistaken. What you are saying is correct.
Really makes this whole thing extra strange, given that many states have sent their reserves to Texas. Political theater.
The inadequacy complex is strong with Texas.
Maybe getting a bigger set of truck nuts would help them self-sooth their short man syndrome?
Like the guy in another thread on here that stated that Texas is bigger than Europe.
Europe's area is slightly bigger than Canada let alone puny Texas.
Well, Texas is bigger than Europe in the "who has the most idiot assholes" category.
Remove all military assets and troops from Texas.
and remove all military spending. Texas is a huge benificiary here - tons and tons of aerospace like Lockheed and Bell Textron, rockets on the coast, enormous amounts of defense spending happens here.
Go for it.
The marketing for the Civil War movie is getting out of control.
Oh look, that's so cute. A bunch of idiots who never read the constitution nor know of our history. Secession is illegal and cannot happen. The union is unbreakable. I live in Texas. Please liberate us.
So, are they recalling their Congressional delegations?
Would they have to create their own currency??
We've already got our own currency: HEB and Whataburger gift cards.
What's the exchange rate between Whataburger gift cards and Sheetz gift cards? Asking for Dan Patrick
I hated the cops and infrastructure in Pennsylvania the times I drove through, but I can forgive almost anything if it's got a little Fetterman in it.
Yeah, if you drove through PA you should probably get your alignment checked.
I'm Rebel Alliance all the way. Fuck the Empire and their impeccable fashion choices.
I was thinking more like Sheetz vs. Wawa
Oh! I visited a Wawa once when I lived in NJ and thought, "how is this different from Valero back in Texas?"
Can I choose QuickChek?
No need, they wouldn't last long enough to need one. First winter rolls around and 90% of the state freezes to death.
They are creating a gold backed cryptocurrency as we speak! The holy grail of currency that cannot be manipulated like fiat. Texas is a step ahead of the rest.
I can't tell if you're joking or not.
Good luck with that. That just shows that they are too stupid for basic math.
I don’t think calling anyone stupid makes a good point.
Anyone who wants to go back to a gold based currency is stupid. Can't help it.
Republicans just love doing Putins work.
I think they should. It would take care of the problem immediately since they would get curb stomped in about .2 seconds.
Awesome. Bye. BTW, no more federal aid, and you'll need a passport to leave in either direction now. You'll have to negotiate your own new treaties with us and Mexico for... well, everything.
We'll throw in Oklahoma for free.
And Florida. But mostly, cuz…we can build a wall and call it “America’s Cock Ring”
Isn't it cheaper and easier to buy a plane ticket and just move. Earth pretty big.
Real life is often not that simple.
If Texas wants to secede though, they should be financially obligated to cover anyone who wants to move out.
Do it lmao, let's see how it turns out.
Stay in your lane, pal.
Why is it that the crazy morons always have a louder voice than anyone else?
Hahaha good fucking luck. We all saw Uvalde, we watched your government let people freeze to death at home. Go ahead and try but historically oil rich nations with authoritarian leadership get some of that sweet American™️ freedom by force.
Texas is a big place but I don't know if it has the capabilities support itself as a sovereign country and have a full scale war against 49 other states. That being said secession is a bumper sticker cause for most who support it not to diminish the threat but I think they are obviously overplaying their hand.
it doesn't, but that doesn't mean idiots won't try to make it happen anyway.
I suspect it wouldn't be 49 other states- I'd bet that there's several other equally stupid states that would happily join them. Definitely Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and maybe Florida would join in. But I bet if Biden tried to call their bluff and pull all govt funding and military bases from those states they would freak out and change their tunes fast.
Oh shit, my dude, that would go all the way up tornado alley to Canada.
Apparently red states' governors support Abbot's move, so...
They wouldn't freak out right away, they probably think their militias are more capable than the US military (what with 'woke officials' and trans rights n such), so they would be fine, until someone like Mexico (or even just a cartel from Mexico) decided to take back historically Mexican land.
Sell them to Mexico, cheap.
The US cannot pay enough money to Mexico to make them take back Texas. ..
It WAS Mexico.
They don’t want it anymore,
Who didn't see this coming? It was clear from beginning.
And it's another proof that compromise politic doesn't work.
If Texas wants to leave they can do it over the United States of America's dead body.
They'll see that and say, "Bet."
Please insane Texans, do that, I already grabbed my popcorn and I can't wait to laugh at you
I honestly think we should not give voice to these people. It just adds legitimacy to their wacko delusions.
Hope you guys can sort all this out by Oscar Night.
These people are dying for an excuse, don't give it to them.
What you are referring to is known as Appeasement and, historically, has been a bad idea.
they're a bunch of fatass cowards who need to be shown how cowardly they are.. backing off only encourages them..
Its a good time to be a razor wire salesman tho
I wonder what the strategy of this rhetoric and defiance is. I don't think it's just about immigration. I imagine they are trying to get favorable precedents set by the right-wing courts. I could also see, in the not too distant future, blue states defying a Republican-controlled federal government on things like a national abortion ban and anti-lgbt laws, so ideas and precedents normalized here could be applicable there.
Yeah this is remarkably short sighted of red states. They want to ignore the supreme court? When the majority of Americans are furious about their decisions?
Don't threaten us with a good time.
Biden should demand Texas to become either Catholic or Democrat.
Then do the opposite they choose! Show them raw power!
Implying X is not a fringe messageboard?
Racist delusion and neo-nazism is no longer fringe
I am not a conservative, I'm not a liberal either I'm just some dude but seriously are we all just cool with swaths of illegal immigrants coming in all the time? Like, literally nothing to stop them just giving them a hand up over the water? It just doesn't seem like a good long term strategy, does it? I mean we can't just walk into Canada if we feel like it either. Idk man Texas has a lot of issues but them saying they are enforcing their border because the feds just let undocumented people walk right in doesn't seem that wild for real. If someone kept breaking into your house and the police did jack shit about it (which they really would) what would you do?
I don't think it is a fair comparison to say breaking into someone's house is equivalent to claiming asylum.
I also personally just don't understand the issue with increased immigration - it gives us a larger labor pool, and counteracts our declining population.
There's a proper way to claim asylum, and it's not swimming across the Rio Grande at midnight.
Yeah it just requires money, time and connections. People fleeing countries have all of those things right?
"If I'm poor the rules shouldn't apply."
When the rules are “don’t be poor” then yeah, it might be a little unfair.
If you think the rules are unfair, work to change them. Every person walking across the border is giving a middle finger to the qualified LEGAL immigrants waiting YEARS to be naturalized, many of them with financial challenges of their own.
Right, better that they die in their own country rather than seek asylum elsewhere and “give the middle finger” to those with more money, connections and time than they have.
Dying is bad but being disrespectful of unfair rules? Well nothing is worse than that.
Maybe it's unfair their own country isn't helping them. Again, if you feel our rules are unfair there are mechanisms to change them. Ignoring them is not the proper approach.
I know, I already agreed with you. Being proper is much more important than people’s lives. Much smarter to work on changing the laws of a country you don’t reside in, or you not dying might have the horrible tragedy of breaking a rule.
As a diabetic, I wasn't able to obtain affordable insulin (which threatens my life), so I hijacked a truck and stole a case. This is clearly morally correct.
This response is so American it drives a pickup truck.
It certainly isn't morally wrong, no
It's always ethical to steal from big pharma, fuck them, but especially so if you were fucking dying thanks to the inflated price of insulin
Maybe we should allow border free flow.
Sure, and you should just let random people off the street walk into your bedroom.
"i had to go through miserable bullshit so you have to too" is not doing what you think its doing
Given the current policies of the Biden administration, my understanding is that most immigrants are actually going through the legal process of claiming asylum.
Channel 5 did a little mini documentary about it that I personally enjoyed: https://youtu.be/2dQ4-VNaG3s
I fail to see how that legal process involves almost drowning in a river or becoming entangled in razor wire. We are talking about separate groups of people: some requesting asylum the LEGAL way and others taking a chance and YOLOing across the border.
Except that walking across the border and surrendering to the border patrol IS the legal way.
So then why are people swimming across rivers and getting ensnared in razor wire, vs legally crossing at designated entry points? If they intend to surrender to border patrol, why not enter the US where the border patrol is present instead of sneaking across? In Tijuana, one can stand in line, get cleared by customs and enter the country. None of that has anything to do with razor wire.
Because the entry points are closed.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158
They are actually following the legal process
The entry points are closed? Not one person crosses the border from Mexico to the US each day?
"I am not a conservative", "swaths of illegal immigrants"
Are you sure you know what political leanings are? That is a false conservative talking point you are repeating. It's not illegal to cross a border.
These "I'm not a conservative" are a special bunch. Same as the classic "I'm not a racist, but...".
I am positive I know my political leanings. It is true, there are a vast amount of immigrants crossing illegally across our border. If you cross illegally, it is by definition illegal. Which I do understand some laws are unjust but you shouldn't blame the state when the feds won't do anything to help them enforce what they say is illegal.
It's a conservative position to limit immigration. Do you feel you support more progressive policies than conservative overall? What verifiable harm has come from increased immigration? People deserve a safe place to live, whether they were born in Mexico or Texas, we have more than enough resources in the US to help people that immigrate here. I don't see how your metaphor is accurate. The US isn't a house or private property.
I don't think you understand, there is no illegal way to cross the border. If someone tells you that there is people crossing the border illegally, they are doing a lie or have bought into false conservative talking points, you shouldn't believe that. Now, there are undocumented immigrants, and that is something we could talk about. But illegal immigrants is not a thing, it's like wizards in the Harry Potter universe. Fun to think about, but not real.
I know people love a simple answer that makes sense on the surface, but you’ve oversimplified this issue to the point of just being categorically wrong.
A better analogy would be “someone came banging on my door saying that someone was going to kill them and I felt obligated to let them in. Now too many people are doing it and I wanted to live alone so I’m making them pick fruit for $2/hr and now my income depends on these people but I don’t want them here, what do I do?”
Obviously stupid as well but it touches on some of the nuances that the “breaking into my house” analogy doesn’t.