LIVE UPDATES: TRUMP GUILTY ON ALL COUNTS IN HUSH-MONEY CASE

jeffw@lemmy.worldmod to News@lemmy.world – 1105 points – Live Updates: Jury Reaches Verdict in Trump Hush-Money Case
nytimes.com

edit: I have changed my title to match the new NYTimes headline. Sorry about the all caps, I guess they are really excited about this lol

Also shoutout to @SayJess@lemmy.blahaj.zone who shared a gift article link in the comments. I hope you don't mind but I kinda stole it and updated the post

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Guilty on all 34 counts!

God damn it, don't take my job away from me!

Sorry, couldn't help it. Still, break out the Andorian ale!

Translation: republicans rigged 2016 election to usurp power, stole 3 Supreme Court seats, passed illegitimate tax cuts for ultra rich, and committed violent insurrection when public legitimately tried to remove them from power.

Every. Single. Republican. Is. Guilty. By. Association.

That’s completely incorrect.

Trump was convicted of 34 counts of falsifying business records. These were the charges in the NY “hush money” trial only.

Here’s a handy tracker for the other cases from the Associated Press.

falsifying business records

To influence the outcome of the 2016 election.

He didn't decisively win, it's not inaccurate to deduce from this conviction that the 2016 election was stolen

It’s true that the contents of this trial can be used for the arguments of the prosecution in the Federal and Georgia election trials, but he was not convicted of any crime other than falsifying business records.

Trump was convicted on 34 counts of falsifying business records, a class E felony that is punishable by a fine, probation or up to four years in prison per count.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-prison-hush-money-trial-verdict-rcna153963

according to The Guardian, for it to be considered a felony charge they had to prove that Trump did it with the intent to commit another crime; The other crime being a New York state law that says it is illegal for “any two or more persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means”

So the election interference charge form part of the existing charges without being separate charges in and of themselves

The main argument from prosecution to this end was that the encounter happened in 2006 (ish, I might be off) but the hush money wasn't an issue until the election campaign. Therefore, they argued, it was paid (and covered up with false business records) to influence the election.

but he was not convicted of any crime other than falsifying business records.

Cool, but irrelevant as nobody was talking about what laws were technically broken, they were pointing out what being guilty of that means in reality

The felony upcharge requires he falsify in furtherance of another crime, which was argued to be hiding campaign contributions.

Yes. He used campaign funds to pay Cohen for his role as a personal attorney, but the payments were actually reimbursement for Cohen’s initially laid out hush money to Daniels.

All I said was he wasn’t charged with it. It’s absolutely going to be used to address his character in the other cases, but they may not get heard until after November at this rate.

The Federal election is postponed until SCOTUS rules on immunity. The Georgia election is postponed until the state Senate investigates Fani Willis, and the documents case is postponed indefinitely.

I’m surprised so many people think that this proves he’s guilty for all of the cases. We all knew he was before this trial even started. This legally only proves he’s guilty of fraud until he begins another trial.

So what happens now?

Fines? Community service? Jail? Nothing?

He'll get 34 slaps on the wrist then become our president for a term that doesn't end until he dies

34 felonies?

Good one. There will be riots in the fucking streets lmao

We'll come back here in a few years and see which one of us is right

If you’re that dedicated to proving a point, I’m concerned for you.

It was an admission that you might be right but go off, dude

Either way man, going back to a post from 3+ years ago isn’t exactly ‘normal’ imo haha

Not everything is an attack

Most likely, fines that he'll pay for with cultist money.

This is only the tip of the iceberg. Trump is a fucking convicted felon and a serial rapist. Fuck him. Now on to sentencing.

There may have been some light treason also

Who among us has never committed a tiny bit of light treason though…

I have a confession... I never said the Pledge of Allegiance. I always just mouthed watermelon and put my left hand over the wrong side... Republicans probably think I'm more treasonous than Trump.

I'm a teacher and have to pretend to be a good boy during the daily pledge. I have kept this up since high school: I always pledge allegiance to the United Snakes of America, and.end with reminding myself that there is really only liberty and justice for the rich and famous.

I think it's my bad memory of Jello Biafra's remake

Edit: Words are hard.

I never did the pledge. In fact, I never bothered to learn it.

PS: Never went to school in US

"Real men wear diapers."

Edit: typo

According to the posts, Trump supporters began to appear at rallies donning diapers and holding signs that said "Real Men Wear Diapers." Some of them reportedly nicknamed the former president "Diaper Don," and one woman wore a sweater that said "Diapers Over Dems."

I'm glad to see the Snopes writers having fun with it lol

The sentence for him will likely be akin to a wrist slap.

Could be the initial breach in the dam. If this knocks Cannon off the bench, that classified docs case should be enough to bury him under the prison.

How could this knock Cannon off the bench? I haven't heard anything about that yet but if it's a realistic possibility that's a sweet ass cherry on top

Not directly, but that's the thing with houses built of cards. It doesn't take much after the initial push.

And here I thought impeachment was the initial breach in the dam. All this guy's political career, people have been assuring me "This is it, he's toast."

He could run from prison, so there's no deus ex machina here.

When November comes around Americans are either going to be smart enough to reelect Biden or stupid enough to let a convicted felon, serial rapist, election denying, wannabe dictator slob take over the most powerful nation on Earth.

I know what I'm doing. Let's see if everyone else can pass the basic intelligence test known as "election 2024".

Take a 5 min peruse of r/republican... I fear for all

His cult still held sway during the impeachment, and they'd tied all their hopes to him.

They don't still hold sway now?

In a sane world, between a boring white guy with mild accusations of not doing enough to stop a war, and a snake oil salesman promising to rip down transgender protections and murder his opponents, there should be absolutely no chance of the latter winning a single state. Half of America is still wrapped up in his damn cult.

No, they're flailing wildly. They sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind. The Dems handed them everything they ever wanted for the border, and they voted against it. Mitch was their most brilliant strategist. He's on the way out. He's prepping Johnson to replace him, but anything could happen in a power vacuum. Russian money is faltering. An untouchable billionaire just got his ass handed to him. The GOP is internally divided, and anything BUT in control.

Dammit. My erection was just going down and now you gotta talk dirty like this?

I'm not so sure...

I went into this trial knowing that it was the least of Trump's crimes and thinking that some brainwashed cultist would turn it into a hung jury. I was wrong, and instead we ended up with 34 consecutive guilty verdicts in less than 12 hours.

Now Trump is going to be sentenced by a judge who he has repeatedly called disgraceful and corrupt after weeks of sleep shitting through the trial. He has shown zero remorse and zero respect for the law. So other than the mythology of Teflon Don, why should the judge sentence him with anything less than he deserves?

If he is guilty on even a single count, the former president and the presumptive republican nominee for the White House will not be able to vote for himself

What a shit show the Republican party has become.

Apparently, assuming he's voting in Florida, for an out of state felony they use the other state's rules to determine if he can vote. For New York, you can vote unless you are in prison for a felony (people on parole can vote). So unfortunately unless he's thrown in jail, he'll probably be able to vote for himself in Florida.

https://www.aclufl.org/sites/default/files/field_documents/florida_voting_rights_amendment_4_one_pager_august_2022_final.pdf

But hey maybe he goes to jail for something finally. That'd be nice.

Fuck prisoner disenfranchisement. Adult citizens should be able to vote, full stop. Even a treasonous scumbag fascist racist felon like trump.

Rich people, and politicians, don't go to jail in America.

Unless there is an appeal before November

Shitshow, definitely.

But apparently he can vote if he is done serving the punishment. So, if the punishment is a fine and he pays the fine, Florida can (and probably will) reinstate his right to vote.

It depends on the punishment and when he'll be able to complete the punishment.

Did you make this mockup or has the current state of American legal reporting devolved into a Sportsnet style scoreboard?

American legal reporting devolved into a Sportsnet style scoreboard?

How else are we supposed to understand it? Go away, I'm batin.

Has always been, even without the graphics. The adversarial system makes it a competition with a scoreboard

It's because that's the level the average American can understand.

This quick must be guilty. I’ll allow myself to hope. Edit:

lock him the fuck up

Lock her him up!

We even have signs that will work for this occasion with a slight modification.

One way or the other, it will be historic. This is much faster than I expected the Jury to deliberate.

I assume if they have a verdict it’s guilty. Could be wrong.

Edit: update convicted on all 34 counts. From the article’s update:

Mr. Trump was convicted on all 34 counts of falsifying business recordsby a jury of 12 New Yorkers, who deliberated over two days to reach a decision in a case rife with descriptions of secret deals, tabloid scandal and an Oval Office pact with echoes of Watergate. The jury found that Mr. Trump had faked records to conceal the purpose of money given to his onetime fixer, Michael D. Cohen. The false records disguised the payments as ordinary legal expenses when in truth, Mr. Trump was reimbursing Mr. Cohen for a $130,000 hush-money deal the fixer struck with the porn star Stormy Daniels to silence her account of a sexual liaison with Mr. Trump.

Within a day (and likely within 30 minutes at that...), we will know the Jury's verdict. Might as well wait for it.

But but it’s my justice and I need it now!

(Apparently JG Wentworth is joining the dark side,)

Former President and convicted felon, Donald J Trump

In other news, some little-known actor committed multiple felonies. Probably will end up on the front of grocery store tabloids. ;)

Don't forget "rapist". He was never convicted, but he was found liable for rape, so you don't even need to say "alleged".

Yes. Former President, convicted felon, and rapist, Donald J Trump.

two times popular vote loser, two times impeached, orange scrotum face Donald trump

First time in history a candidate running for president can’t legally vote for themselves?

I bet some female ran prior to female suffrage.

kagis

Yeah.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Woodhull

Victoria Claflin Woodhull (born Victoria California Claflin; September 23, 1838 – June 9, 1927), later Victoria Woodhull Martin, was an American leader of the women's suffrage movement who ran for president of the United States in the 1872 election. While many historians and authors agree that Woodhull was the first woman to run for the presidency,[2] some disagree with classifying it as a true candidacy because she was younger than the constitutionally mandated age of 35. (Woodhull's 35th birthday was in September 1873, six months after the March inauguration.)

An activist for women's rights and labor reforms, Woodhull was also an advocate of "free love", by which she meant the freedom to marry, divorce and bear children without social restriction or government interference.[3] "They cannot roll back the rising tide of reform," she often said. "The world moves."[4]

Woodhull twice went from rags to riches, her first fortune being made on the road as a magnetic healer[5] before she joined the spiritualist movement in the 1870s.[6] Authorship of many of her articles is disputed (many of her speeches on these topics were collaborations between Woodhull, her backers, and her second husband, Colonel James Blood[7]). Together with her sister, Tennessee Claflin, she was the first woman to operate a brokerage firm on Wall Street,[8] making a second, and more reputable fortune.[9] They were among the first women to found a newspaper in the United States, Woodhull & Claflin's Weekly, which began publication in 1870.[10]

Woodhull was politically active in the early 1870s when she was nominated as the first woman candidate for the United States presidency.[8] Woodhull was the candidate in 1872 from the Equal Rights Party, supporting women's suffrage and equal rights; her running mate (unbeknownst to him) was abolitionist leader Frederick Douglass. Her campaign inspired at least one other woman – apart from her sister – to run for Congress.[8] A check on her activities occurred when she was arrested on obscenity charges a few days before the election. Her paper had published an account of the alleged adulterous affair between the prominent minister Henry Ward Beecher and Elizabeth Richards Tilton which had rather more detail than was considered proper at the time. However, it all added to the sensational coverage of her candidacy.[11]

Heh, and she was in trouble with the law in the runup to the election like Trump, too.

Sorry but what is "kagis"? I tried looking it up and found nothing.

What is this "looking it up" you speak of? We only do googles and kagis and duckduckgos and altavistas

Funny enough, I tried DDG, then Google, then asked MS Copilot and then ChatGPT (both Bing). 😅

The search gone is called "Kagi", so the action of using it was "kagis"

"Searches using Kagi." Like "googles" for "searches using Google".

I suppose the only questions there are whether or not her state allowed women to vote for president, and whether or not a candidate who cannot legally hold the office counts (since she was under 35). Because it wasn't just blanket illegal for women to vote prior to the 19th Amendment, it was up to the individual states and like anything up to the individual states it was all over the place depending on which state we're talking about. For example, New Jersey allowed anyone who had the equivalent of 50 British pounds of wealth to vote regardless of sex (and there are recorded examples of women voting there) - at least until they embraced Jacksonian democracy and removed the wealth requirement and added a sex one. By the time the 19th Amendment passed, women could vote in at least some elections in most states.

I thought of that, but the first state to do so was well after her run.

https://www.history.com/news/the-state-where-women-voted-long-before-the-19th-amendment

When Wyoming sought statehood two decades after its historic vote, the territory’s citizens approved a constitution that maintained the right of women to vote. When Congress threatened to keep Wyoming out of the Union if it didn’t rescind the provision, the territory refused to budge. “We will remain out of the Union one hundred years rather than come in without the women,” the territorial legislature declared in a telegram to congressional leaders. Congress relented, and Wyoming became the first state to grant women the right to vote when it became the country’s 44th state in 1890.

The West continued to be the country’s most progressive region on full women’s suffrage. Colorado approved it in 1893, and Idaho did the same three years later. Congress had disenfranchised women along with outlawing polygamy in Utah in 1887, but women regained the right to vote when the territory became a state in 1896. After 1910, they were joined by Washington, California, Arizona, Kansas, Oregon, Montana, Nevada, Oklahoma, South Dakota and the territory of Alaska. (Even before the passage of the 19th Amendment, Montana elected a woman, Jeannette Rankin, to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1916.) According to the National Constitution Center, by 1919 there were 15 states in which women had full voting rights, and only two of them were east of the Mississippi River. The dozen states that restricted women from casting ballots in any election were primarily in the South and the East.

Wyoming wasn't the first state to allow women to vote for President. At the very least women could vote in New Jersey as early as 1790, presuming they had the equivalent of 50 British pounds of wealth (because the wealth requirement was the only requirement). Women later lost the right to vote in New Jersey when New Jersey embraced Jacksonian democracy and extended the right to vote to all white men of age, regardless of wealth.

But again, women's right to vote was a state issue prior to the 19th Amendment and as such it was kinda all over the place with some states allowing women to vote but only in some elections (often different rules for municipal, county, state and federal elections).

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They passed a constitutional amendment in Florida to let felons vote, a couple years ago. The legislature tried to backpeddle it as much as they could in order to prevent black people from voting, but the main mechanism is forcing the felons to pay a bunch of money, which isn't a problem for Trump.

Florida also defers to the voting rights in the state where the judgment happened for convictions outside of Florida. And New York lets felons vote. Therefore, Trump can vote in Florida under Florida election law.

The legislature tried to backpeddle it as much as they could in order to prevent black people from voting, but the main mechanism is forcing the felons to pay a bunch of money, which isn't a problem for Trump.

To be exact, the "backpedaling" was that if the courts assigned you fines and prison time you had to complete both before you had "completed your sentence" and thus could vote.

There may be a component that felons have to have finished their sentence which could exclude Trump.

As long as he's not incarcerated he can vote in NY

He's a Florida resident though.

And Florida defers to the state where the conviction occurred. So Florida says he can vote in Florida if he can vote in NY.

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Now the judge who Trump has been royally pissing off the whole time gets to sentence him. If your justice boner lasts for more than 4 hours, please consult a doctor.

Despite @ummthatguy@lemmy.world doing it first, this is my domain.

Don't do a Riker on my turf, damn it.

Hey now, on this occasion there's enough Riker to go around for all of us.

You can never have too much Riker….(the 14 year old girl who was me, waiting impatiently for TNG to come on…for the sci-fi…and the Riker).

I met Jonathan Frakes at a con once and told him I had the biggest crush on him when I was a teenager. He said, “Well what changed?”

Riker gonna Riker lol

Now I want to know the answer.

I really didn’t have an answer because I wasn’t expecting the question, lol, but I kind of managed to come up with something like “Well….the show ended and you went away. You just kinda left.”

It was lame but all I could manage to think of on the fly. He just kind of laughed. It was a good experience, all of the main TNG bridge crew were there except for Jean-Luc and Wesley (who were originally supposed to be, that was a disappointment, but it was still fun).

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Do you guys think this matters to his voters/supporters?

This is going to give a lot of GOP Senators a fig leaf.

If someone puts a motion in Congress to make it illegal for him to run, a lot of them will vote for it.

I absolutely do not want a ban on felons running for President. In some countries, that is used as a political tool to eliminate political opponents. Putin used that against Navalny.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42479909

Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny has been formally barred from competing in next year's presidential election.

The Central Electoral Commission has said Mr Navalny was ineligible because of a corruption conviction which he says is politically motivated.

He has urged his supporters to boycott the March vote.

Mr Navalny, 41, was widely regarded as the only candidate with a chance of challenging President Vladimir Putin.

Not to mention, Trump won't even be the first person in the USA who could be running for president from jail.

edit: the first from a major party though, sorry Debs

His felonies are related to campaing financing, which could be used to narrow down without banning all felons. While I oppose anyone losing the right to vote, I don't oppose people who are connvicted of treason, insurrection, or felonies related to campaign finance or abuse of elected positions being banned since they have been proven to have undermined democracy.

I get allowing former felons to run for office - they served time that society said was their punishment. They are done with it.

But a law that bans a felon that has not completed their punishment is a different story.

We've banned them from voting for decades.

Also, the USA isn't Russia and Biden isn't Putin.

Not running, though. Much harder to use that to eliminate a political opponent.

Also, the USA isn't Russia

No. But I'd also like to keep it that way.

All the more reason for the Republicans to support it, TBH.

bad law. I'd much rather a law where the candidate has to describe the nature of their past convictions in a written statement submitted with their filing paperwork to run and explain why each one doesn't affect their ability to run the country.

Aka reflecting on one's crimes.

Except assholes like trump see themselves as victims of a witch-hunt and he would write that out , sorry: he will have a lawyer write that out for every one of them. I doubt he has the attention span for it.

How do you propose such a bill be advanced through the GOP controlled house?

It'll probably be good for his campaign somehow

He'll be able to work some sort of grift off of it for sure but I feel like this definitely gives some Republicans an "out."

Now they just have to take it.

It gives us something new to troll those miserable asshats over. "Interesting argument, but have you considered the fact that your candidate is a convicted felon?"

Before all this started, people did make claims that they wouldn't vote for him if he was convicted.

But then they also said they wouldn't vote for him even if Nikki Haley conceded.

So we'll see, I guess. But I'm not optimistic.

Some, but they'll never tell the others.

Ladies you don't have to tell your husband you voted for Biden.

Tucker Carlson responded to today’s verdict in what can only be described as an apocalyptic tone, stating on X that the jury’s decision marked “the end of the fairest justice system in the world.” The former Fox News host said that Trump would still win the election “if he’s not killed first,” and closed by saying that “anyone who defends this verdict is a danger to you and your family.”

Yes: To them this demonstrates that the justice system is corrupt and they think only Trump can fix it.

They will believe this even though Trump isn't running for any office in New York 🤣

It will most matter for undecided voters who required a guilty verdict to decide, althoigh I'm not sure that is a large number in swing states.

It won't matter for his base that already ignore reality.

It's reductive to think of his supporters as a single bloq.

It will certainly matter to at least some of them.

So TIL my parents will be voting for a convicted felon in November 🤦‍♀️

Oh hey there sibling! We've got the same parents! And in-laws!

The GOP could have gotten off this wild ride at so many points in the last 8 years, yet here we are. A republican presidential nominee who has been convicted of felonies.

Edit: And with Biden’s poll numbers they could have run literally anybody else and won.

Today is a very good day.

Now on the downside, convicted felons are still legally allowed to run for office. Not being able to vote for himself is delicious schadenfreude, but this doesn't suddenly save democracy. However, I would expect Biden's administration will push this hard, and I don't think undecided voters want a felon in the White House.

As other have said, Banning felons from voting is a tool that can be used by oppressors to block their political rivals from standing against them.

Which ironically is something the Republicans are probably wanting to do at some point in the future.

There are several countries that won't approve your visa if you are convicted felon.

I would like to formally and publicly apologize to Juror #2 for the aspersions I had cast upon his character. I am sorry for doubting you and your motives, Juror #2.

Same. But good on them for seeing the truth.

So... is there a minimum sentence here? If so, what is it?

Judge set the sentencing hearing for July 11, so it'll be a bit before we know the final details.

Right, but we should know just based on what laws he was found guilty of violating what the minimum sentences for violating them are (if there are minimums).

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IANAL, but If I'm understanding this correctly, because he was found guilty of class E felonies, there is technically a minimum of 1 year in prison, but if the court:

is of the opinion that a sentence of imprisonment is necessary but that it would be unduly harsh to impose an indeterminate or determinate sentence, the court may impose a definite sentence of imprisonment and fix a term of one year or less.

Which seems like an alternative minimum. It seems like there will be additional evaluations as part of sentencing, which may or may not be postponed by appeals. He may get up to 4 years per count (which I'm assuming would be concurrent), maybe 1, maybe less if the court finds that it would be harsh to do so.

Even 1 would do so much to restore my faith in...so much.

But the dude is 10000% getting probation.

The system isn't quite designed to do what many of us think it should do, but at times, it can get close.

Unfortunately, there's a good chance you're right, and this isn't one of those times.

Good question. All I know is sentencing is set for July 11 at 10 a.m.

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🤏🖐️👌 I tell ya folks we have the most perfect verdicts!!!! Beautiful verdicts! 🖐️👌

Get fucked loser, CONVICTED FELON DONALD J TRUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!

While I'm extremely happy, I'm exhausted and lost all faith that he will be held accountble for anything.

He will appeal on others money and then somehow all the republicans in there twisted hate of their fellow Americans will somehow get him elected and then he will wipe all punishments for him and all his other insurrectionists. Start a civil war, destroy any progress on saving the planet start ww3 or nuclear war...

I used to be optimistic now I'm depressed as the ruling class burns us all to the ground

Hey exhausted lemming! I get you. I really do. But try and look at it this way. Two years ago I would have said he would never be charged with a crime. A year ago I would have said he'd never see a court room. And yesterday, I was convinced that one MAGA in the jury would be enough to get a hung jury. But here we are. So I'll be very surprised if Trump sees a single day in jail, but I've gone from pessimistic depression to cautious optimism. I hope you get some relief, too.

The best news here is that potus can’t make this go away!

It’s doubtful he’ll go to jail ( it’s extremely rare for these kinds of charges,) but he can’t remove the felony conviction.

Definitely an appeal incoming. No way it gets overturned before the election, right?

No, but if sentenced to prison, will he be imprisoned during the appeal? Or will they let him out on house arrest and allow him to campaign within the state?

And republicans, the "Law and Order" party, will still vote for this man.

Fraud just has a nicer ring to it imo

Damn paywall.

uBlock Origin is your friend...

Yes it is, I have it installed. It doesn't stop the paywall though.

Check your settings. I can read it just fine but simply clicking the link. 🤷🏽‍♂️

Ok so if sentencing is July 11, what happens on that day? If the sentence includes imprisonment, does he go straight from court to jail?

He van and will appeal before then though right? If other cases are any indication he'll file an appeal which will delay any outcome until after November.

Typically, if sentencing includes a prison sentence, you do go straight in

Having read some other commentary it seems unlikely that these felonies will attract a prison sentence though. Too bad.

Not a fucking chance this matters. I really wish it would, but it won't sway any folks that weren't already swayed.

Sure it will. All those people who are last minute deciders will be reminded of this up until election day.

Not the hat wearers, but between 5 and 20 percent of undecided voters say 8n surveys that it matters to them. Not a lot (5% of maybe 10%) but it's an election where some states are won by 11 thousand votes (under 1% margin).