What driving concept you feel that most drivers don't understand?

TeckFire@lemmy.world to Cars - For Car Enthusiasts@lemmy.world – 178 points –

I’ll start. Stopping distance.

My commute is 95 miles one way to work, so I see a lot of the highway, in the rural part of the US. This means traveling at 70+ mph (112km/h) for almost the entirety of the drive. The amount of other drivers on the road who follow behind someone else with less than a car’s length in front of them because they want to go 20+ over the speed limit is ridiculous. The only time you ever follow someone that close is if you have complete and absolute trust in them, and also understand that it may not even be enough.

For a daily drive, you likely need 2-3 car lengths between you at minimum depending on your speed to accurately avoid hitting the brakes. This doesn’t even take into account the lack of understanding of engine braking…

What concepts do you all think of when it comes to driving that you feel are not well understood by the public at large?

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Move the fuck to the right. Always drive in the right lane unless overtaking. If overtaking, do it then get the fuck back to the right. It's not the "slow lane" and "fast lane", it's the driving lane and overtaking lane.

Sure just don't be the guy riding my ass when I AM passing everyone in the right lane but aparently not fast enough for you.

This is generally the situation that prompted my post. When I pass on the left, I will speed up compared to the rest of the traffic flow before moving back to the right, but I still leave plenty of room just in case I need to stop or slow down. People behind me or in front of me don’t usually tend to do that.

I hate seeing a clump of like 3-4 cars in front of me all bunched together hitting their brakes in series because they didn’t leave room between them while the guy in front is already doing 80mph or something.

This. So much this.

There are so many signs on U.S. highways and interstates that say, “keep right except to pass”. It’s literally the law in most states.

Don't be polite, be predictable.

This one. I live in the Netherlands and I walk our little kids to school. So I try to teach them the rules of the road. But then every motherfucker stops all the time to let us through because little kids. I know you're all thinking "that's considerate and safe" but really it's infuriating. Be careful around children? Of course! Stop all traffic and insist on waving us through whether we want to or not? NO

Same thing happens to me when I ride a bike, especially with kids on the back. I've resorted to aggressively shaking my head "no" and gesturing that they have the right of way and need to fucking take it already.

It's especially infuriating when the car could've gone before I even reached the stop sign but didn't, so it forces me to come to a complete stop and put my foot down. It would've been faster for both of us if they'd just take their turn!

I'd suggest stopping at stop signs regardless of whether a car driver is trying to wave you through.

What I meant is that I have to put my foot down and wait instead of doing a quick track stand while looking both ways.

Fair enough. I was getting "run through the stop sign if you think you can get away with it" vibes, but it sounds like that's not what you actually do.

As a rider, my nightmare is cars running me over just to be ornery.

As a driver, my nightmare is hitting cyclists who aren't following traffic rules.

In both cases, I'm always disappointed at how many people -- in both roles! -- ignore traffic rules.

Eh, I'd rather drivers be extra careful rather than run the risk of a car accident. Good on you for teaching your kids, but not every kid is taught to be predictable too.

My issue with people stopping for us when they shouldn't is that it teaches the kids that cars will always stop for you. That's not really what you want them to learn.

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Signal BEFORE you switch lanes. Like enough time for other drivers to see it before you make your move. Also, turn off your signal if it doesn’t automatically. I don’t understand how people don’t notice the continuous ticking and flashing light and just keep going as usual.

To add on to that, signal BEFORE turning! I see so many drivers signal just when the lights go green and they are about to turn.

The point of signalling is to notify other drivers and pedestrians, not for yourself!

You signal before BREAKING

I know you meant “braking,” but I’m imagining someone in an absolute shitbox going “ah, there’s my axle about to fall off again” and hitting their hazards or something lmao

Man even when I accidentally do that when I last minute realize I need to turn or switch lanes even i cringe and do everything I can to make sure I don't do that again

And give those assholes in the other lane a chance to block my lane change? I don't think so.

/s

Taking your foot off the gas and slowing down gradually when you see a red light ahead. People seem to floor it up to the light then stop as quickly as possible.

This is mostly due to the fact that yellow lights have an inconsistent amount of on time.

EDIT: My mistake, the comment I replied to was not talking about when a red just turns. My bad.

In the US, the Federal Highway Administration has standards for yellow lights, speaking on this topic though. Many places don’t bother to follow these, however.

There’s a light where I’m at that is always red unless the sensors detect vehicles, then the light turns green just long enough for 1 maybe 2 vehicles to pass the street, then goes to yellow for less than a full second and then is red. Drives me nuts.

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People can't downshift anymore

I love having an automatic that still allows me to manually change gears. Engine braking is highly misunderstood and under-utilized as a driving mechanic now, and that’s a little sad, in my opinion.

My father used to do that at red lights and stop signs. There was a street we'd go down to get out of our neighborhood that had two stop signs, one at the end of each intersection and the second intersection ended in a T. He'd turn at the first stop sign, then floor it to the second and slam on the breaks at the last second. It was a long block, but it was still just a block. Always scared the shit out of me. He'd do it other places too, and that was also scary, but this was really terrifying, especially in the winter.

But please also don't crawl to the line like a snail. I have a start-stop engine, I want to full stop as soon as I can.

Coasting is one thing.

But slowly coming to a standstill, literal a few seconds per meter, just to conserve that 1% momentum is dumb as well.

Especially when the cars behind you are trying to move to a different lane so they can turn and you are blocking them because you think you are "saving energy".

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You’re supposed to accelerate as you merge onto the highway. Not stop and wait for an opening

And if you are already on the highway, don't try to match the speed of the person merging. Ffs, speed up so they can get behind you. They may not be able to overtake you even if you slow down, and that's not how it's supposed to work anyway.

For a daily drive, you likely need 2-3 car lengths between you at minimum depending on your speed

It's not car lengths, it's seconds. You need roughly 2 seconds between you and the person in front of you. That gives you time to react and emergency brake if needed. At 70mph, 2 seconds is a little over 200 feet, not 3 car lengths. Average reaction time is about .75 seconds; you see something, and you start reacting to that thing--not you finish reacting--in .75 seconds. At 70mph, you will travel 75 feet before you can even realize that you need to get your foot off the gas and hit the brakes.

2 sec is not practical in daily driving in busy city. It is correct if there is some car stopped there then you need completely stop. People take the risk and follow closer because usually everyone brake so give you more time/distance.

But if there's a road hazard hidden by the vehicle in front of you, or a person/animal steps out onto the road, if something falls off the vehicle ahead of you (note that I have had an entire wheel go through my windshield when it fell off the car ahead of me; good times), then you just aren't going to have enough tie to do anything.

This is true. When I say “minimum” I should have been more clear, I usually leave a pretty sizable amount of room in front of me. It’s also nice to not have to worry about people merging right in front of me at the last second due to them not being prepared

I mean duh. People use car lengths because it's easier to visualise than seconds.

The trick I learned was to watch their shadow pass a stationary object, then count how long until you pass it. Way easier than trying to visualize two car lengths

Say in your head "Only a fool, breaks the two second rule". Takes about two seconds to say

People don't realise how little time they save by speeding and weaving in and out of traffic.

Just chill. You can spend 20 minutes relaxed and comfy, or 19 minutes gripping your wheel with white knuckles, screaming at grandmas and jacking off at red lights.

Choose wisely.

It is quite satisfying to amble up next to them at the next light... And the one after that... And the one after that.

Edit: I don't recommend rolling down the window and shouting "IT'S NOT WORKING! WEAVE HARDER! WEAVE HARDER!" at them. I think about it, but I don't recommend it.

I'll admit it took me way too long to learn this one, but man, commuting is so much less stressful when you can take a zen approach and accept that 95% of your travel time is out of your control. Focus on some music or a podcast you enjoy and you probably won't even care if it takes you an extra minute or two to get there.

I was a bus driver for 7 years. It's hilarious when I'm driving this gigantic goliath and some speed demon winds up at the same light at the same time multiple times trying to be in the Fast and the Furious. Traffic don't work like that. Chill out and you help everyone. Including yourself.

I agree.

But some people are really irritating to drive behind. So sometimes overtaking them is the only way to have a zen commute.

That's a different thing. Normally people who are annoying are not safe.

100%. If I see a driver sifting back and forth over the edges of both sides of their lanes, I’m 100% going to stay backed rn further than I usually do. Until I have a clear shot to pass them, and them I’m going to slip by as quickly as possible and get some distance, because there is no way I’m sitting behind a wreck waiting to happen for a whole drive.

I look at it this way: I speed and weave on the highway, and save 5 minutes on my 35 minute commute. That's one way. So 10 minutes per day, five days a week. That's 50 minutes I save per week. 50 weeks per year, so I save 2,500 minutes or almost 42 hours a year. That's basically a weeks worth of work I'm not in traffic.

Worth it.

I should mention that I ride a motorcycle half the year, but don't weave in my cage, because I'm not a complete asshole. I still speed no matter what I'm driving, but not excessively

the average is 2 minutes a week I'm afraid

what people forget is you can make up a couple of minutes on the highway at best, but most destinations will be on residential streets, which are controlled with traffic lights, and then you have to find a parking spot, lock the car, walk to the destination...

The passing lane is for passing.

I know, I know.... tough to understand, what with the fact that the lane is named after what it is meant for and all.

The passing lane is for passing, but if someone is passing at 65 mph and you want to pass at 75 mph, you do not get special super duper passing privileges. Calm down and drive empathetically.

In the state of Georgia it is illegal to be the slow thing in the fast lane. You are required to move over for faster traffic.

Same in Tennessee.

In fact, if you are in the left lane, you are supposed to pass, then move over to the right as soon as there is a reasonable gap in traffic. When people do not do this, the traffic behind them is allowed to create an audible signal to indicate them to move over. If they do not, you are permitted to pass on the right if there is ample room.

You won’t ever see a state trooper pulling left lane hoggers though…

Maybe in theory but I've never seen that enforced in the 30+ years I've lived here.

What if you're driving the speed limit? Is it illegal to be the slow one when you're driving the limit and others want to go faster?

It's still better to make way and switch to the right lane to let them pass even if you are already driving at speed limit, imo.
Avoids people tailgating you or weaving between traffic, both of which risk causing bigger accidents.

In Tennessee where I live, you must not impede the flow of traffic. If everyone else is doing 80, 85, etc MPH, and you merge over into the left lane to pass, but you go 70? You are breaking the law if there are drivers behind you still going that higher speed and they have to slow down or hit their brakes because of you.

Additionally, if you do not move to the right as soon as you are able to, they are supposed to audibly signal to you (honk) to move over, and if you don’t, they are permitted to pass on the right.

The flow of traffic thing applies to the right lane too, just doesn’t come up as often.

Which law is that? I was curious, and looked it up, and only found the "slow poke" law, which says that you have to be passing in the passing lane, but does not grant an exception to the speed limit.

I’m referring to the 2021 Tennessee Code Title 55-8-154

First part of it is:

“ No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.”

I guess I misread the law when I was researching this a while back, which is my mistake

Yes, you could simultaneously be ticketed for both speeding and impeding traffic.

That is pretty much true everywhere. Doesn't mean it actually happens and almost no one gets pulled over for it, which only encourages people to plant their asses in the passing lane and go the same speed as everyone else (which is entirely not it's purpose).

The passing lane is for passing.

I know, I know… tough to understand, what with the fact that the lane is named after what it is meant for and all.

I didn't actually know this was a thing until recently. I've always heard people call it "the fast lane"

If you have a 4 lane highway, it goes:

L: Passing LM: Fast Lane RM: Cruising Lane R: Entrance/Exit lane

If you have 3:

L: Passing M: Fast Lane/Cruising R: Cruising/Exit

If you have 2:

L: Passing R: Cruising/Exit

There is always a passing only lane specifically for creating the opportunity for others to move around slow or stopped traffic, and for emergency vehicles to (in theory) have a clear path. Most people treat this as a fast lane though, and moreover, most driver’s tests do not ask you about this.

No it isn't.

Right lane is the driving lane. Every other lane is a passing lane.

Unless you are passing someone, you drive in the most right lane.

That… doesn’t work for most multi-lane highways. For a 2 lane highway, yes. But you try driving in a city with a 4 lane highway with on ramps and exits all over the right lane and you’ll see why everybody who is not entering or exiting and just wants to go at a constant speed is a problem.

So they cruise in the next lane over. There is still another two lanes for them to pass. Technically, the “fast lane” is just another term for “long term passing,” as in they’re going faster than the other traffic for a long period of time… passing them in the process. They’ll move over when they are able to.

Ever see signs that say “TRUCKS USE RIGHT TWO LANES” and such? There’s a reason it’s not just the rightmost.

I didn't invent the phrasing, but I think most of these things can be summed up as people not understanding that driving needs to be a cooperative team activity rather than a competition.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

Honestly I sometimes wish there were open racetracks that anybody could just go on and drive wild to get it out of their system or something

In the US, when you come to a multi-way stop, the person that stopped first goes first. If people stop simultaneously, then the person farthest to the right goes first.

Trying to wave someone through to be "polite" just snarls traffic patterns.

The left lane is a passing lane, not a I’m going to go 5 over speed limit and coast lane. Learn to move over to the right. Please and thank you.

Exactly. Keep right except to pass. Unless you're actively passing people, you should be in a right or center lane moving at your speed.

I don't know why this concept is so foreign to the people in my area. My favorite are the drivers I see enter the highway then immediately cross two lanes to get to the leftmost lane only to get passed on the right by the cars coming up behind them.

This is my second biggest driving pet peeve. My biggest is people who pull out from a side street right in front of me (often without stopping) when there is no one behind me and then proceed to go under the speed limit. Road rage ensues

I feel like drivers should be required to pass a driving test every few years just so it’s a mechanism to keep people’s bs habits like these in check and as a reminder that we don’t own the roads.

We should also update our driving laws and tests to catch bs like this, which is incredibly dangerous.

I’m with you on all of this.

I believe it used to be different, at least here in Belgium.

Driving below the maximum speed was right lane, driving the maximum speed is middle, and driving over the maximum speed was left lane.

Some people still believe it to be like that.

It doesn't matter what the posted speed limit might be - in traffic, the correct speed to drive is the same speed as the majority of the cars around you.

In many states, there are laws specifically to “not impede the flow of traffic,” for this very reason. Please follow the general speed of other drivers, for your own and others safety…

When you turn onto a multi-lane road, you turn into the closest lane. THEN you signal and change lanes. This is a big cause of accidents.

My huge pet peeve - I tell my wife that people blank out and try to 'choose their own adventure' rather than sticking to a single lane through the intersection.

It's so wildly dangerous to change lanes in an intersection, but people find it easier to adopt a 'fuck you' mentality while driving. There was a similar post to his on reddit a few years ago, and when this was pointed out it rapidly devolved into name calling.

Damn shame driving is so integral to the layout of the US.

Zip merges really show who the dumb drivers are.

I'm a european who happened to be driving from New Orleans to Houston today, and while there are a few minor things that annoy me about american traffic, seeing miserable attempts at zipper merge on Sam Houston today was what caused me to swear out loud, something I don't do very often.

EDIT: One thing I do like about driving here, though, is the right-on-red rules.

Beat me to it. People try to jam themselves into traffic right at the bottom of the ramp causing a snarl as opposed to using the acceleration lane. It's fucking maddening

Come to Pennsylvania, we don't have acceleration lanes on most of our on ramps. It's nuts!

I lived in Philly for years. Traffic was gnarly.

My absolute favorite were the ramps in downtown Chicago that just yeeted you right into highway traffic

That's not zipper merging. That's just poor merging. I guess technically you can zipper merge on a ramp if there is traffic, and like you said you'd want to use the whole acceleration lane even though you won't be accelerating in traffic.

Zipper merging is when 2 lanes goes down to 1 lane

It is better for all cars to use both lanes completely until it gets down to 1 lane.

People don't understand it in the US.

If a mile down the road you see it going to 1 lane. You shouldn't try to merge over soon. You should drive all the way down in your lane and merge at the last moment.

But you'll get a mile long single file line of cars and the few cars that pass are considered assholes trying to cut to the front.

If you broke up that mile long single file line and had two 1/2 mile lines in 2 lanes that zipper merged. Everyone would get through the bottleneck faster.

Tailgating me wont make the car right in front of me go any faster. Aggressively cutting in front of the next car in line doesn’t get you to your destination any faster.

Egh it does quite often.

I definitely have been in lines of assholes just blocking the posting lane. I'll then cut around all of them to get to second in line andaggressively honk and ride their ass and they'll move breaking the traffic.

Plenty of assholes are happy to sit behind another asshole and won't get their attention. But I will.

So yes, in many cases it 100% will get me there faster.

Assuming they’ll listen. I’ve seen pretty annoying groups of people clumped together with a slow mofo just cruising and 3-4 cars behind him. If you can’t get through to the guy in front, it does no good

Most folks will get out the way if you are willing to just lay on the horn. Do it long enough and the guy on the right will slow down for the asshole in front of you. I've been in maybe 2 situations where both lanes held positions in spite of me mechanically screaming get the fuck out of my way for 60 seconds.

FUCKING TURN SIGNALS.

Christ, the number of times I've almost hit someone who swerved into a turn at the last second without a signal...

Letting someone in won’t make a difference in the time it takes you to get somewhere.

I drive a pickup w/ trailer all day, people will see me signal and then speed up to not let me in.

Mind you, I work in the “rudest city in Canada”.

As a truck driver, I must say that when someone goes out of their way to prevent me from changing lanes in traffic, I will often make sure to merge in front of them instead of other vehicles.

You may get shot doing that one day. I've had dumbass truckers run me off the road like you're describing because they just merge on top of the occupied lane while we're going down the fucking highway side by side, and it definitely made me want revenge on them.

Oh you probably mean they merge at the merge point? As they should? Maybe find other reasons to murder people, idk.

For clarification I'm talking low speed congestion here. I don't run people off the road at speed.

Also I'm glad not to live in the US where merging can be met with murder apparently

No I'm talking about dumbass truckers literally running me off the road at highway speed, 70+ mph. By simply coming over into the lane where my car is already occupying the space.

…why aren’t you leaving enough room for the truckers to merge if needed?

I always stay back enough to have a full semi between me and the guy in front of me, and then when I do pass, I speed the hell up to get out of the “beside” part of the truck so I’m not sitting next to one. If they happen to move over right as you’re speeding up, well, you may just be really unlucky, because truckers generally don’t move unless they have a reason.

When I'm already in the lane, and the trucker just comes over on top of me forcing me to have to emergency brake and run off the road onto the dirt is what I'm talking about. It has happened 3 times at least, due to negligent truck drivers trying to murder me.

When I am already occupying the lane, they have no legal right to simply force me out of the way by signaling a turn and coming over into the space that my car already occupies.

Oh absolutely, and that’s happened to me before as well. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but that’s why I generally stay back, accelerate fast, and skip the whole issue most of the time

If a trucker is merging into your lane like that, they probably have good reason.
Example:
Two lane interstate/highway, approaching an on ramp with vehicles attempting to merge in.
Trucker moves over into your lane to let them in.
And then there's you, side-by-side with a multi-ton cargo machine because...why?
Lack of situational awareness? Did the off ramp not clue you in to the fact that an on ramp is approaching and that there may be other vehicles looking to merge in and that the trucker may need to move over to let them in?
Maybe you (and probably the 3+ cars ahead of you) thought they could all over take the semi and merging traffic all at once instead of leaving room for the trucker to move over if needed?

TL;DR you're probably the dumb ass.

I'm talking about when I'm ALREADY OCCUPYING the lane, and the trucker comes over into my lane, literally forcing me off of the road via emergency braking and swerving. Like I've had to dodge the trucks trying to kill me at highway speed several times.

These motherfuckers are out there on shit-tons of meth driving 48+ hours and have lost their minds, in some cases. If you haven't encountered them you're lucky. They will try to kill you with negligence.

Your literacy skills are on show here.

Probably best to leave the Glock at home, friend.

I don't give a fuck what you think, and nobody else does either. For the record though, I have probably read quite a lot more books than you have (or most people on Lemmy and Reddit and Twitter and Mastodon have even) in my decades on planet earth. I was reading adult fiction novels while I was still in elementary school in the 80s, for fun because we didn't have Playstations and Youtube to hypnotize the brains of children back then. I've probably read in the ballpark of a thousand novels total but I haven't been keeping an exact count.

I have even worked as a professional writer (journalist) but the simple reality is that literary excellence is not something you can really judge based on shitposting comments on a pseudo-anonymous website. This is all shit that we're flinging against a public wall here.

rudest city in Canada

Do they tell an apology as they drive past?

When merging onto a highway you have to press the gas pedal.

This one annoys me soo much. I drive a slow vehicle. Probably 20 seconds 0-60. I can get it up to highway merging speed by the end of the on ramp 100% of the time. Why the fuck can't Mr. Twin Turbo Ecoboost manage that?

I have no idea. Maybe acceleration offends their delicate sensibilities? Maybe they like to disrupt the flow of vehicles?

Mine's quite a bit worse, when it's cold it takes me about a minute to get up to speed (won't shift into 4th cause of a sticky solenoid), but unfortunately the turn onto our highway is just a stop sign and not a ramp. So i have to wait for a big opening to go onto it safely

The problem with following distance is that it becomes room for other cars to insert themselves into your buffer zone with the car that was in front of you.

You're kinda restating what OP was pointing out. People don't understand following distance, so they will merge in anyplace there is physically room to do so, regardless of whether they are leaving adequate following distance.

I agree, it's infuriating when you're just trying to maintain a safe distance in a line of cars passing in the left lane, and some dipshit comes flying up in the right lane and squeezes into the buffer of you. But that's on them for being an entitled prick who doesn't get (or doesn't care) how safe driving works.

Sometimes they merge in place where they don't even have physically room to do so. Just because I'm small doesn't give Mr lifted giant truck the right to push me out of the way -or play monster truck car crush- because I'm not riding the ass of the car in front. I actually want stopping distance.

So? Is this your commute or a race?

Well, then you need to give even more buffer. Also, some cars treat my buffer zone as their chance to pass on the right and then slip into a spot in the left lane.

I think the person you're replying to is suggesting you have a competitive mind set about it - still evident here.

Someone you dont know getting to somewhere 17 seconds earlier than they would - at a destination you won't ever know about - shouldn't be something to feel anything about.

Yes, you will need to give additional buffer. That's not going to noticeably affect your commute time.

The two main ones I think about are zipper merges and space in traffic. The most efficient way to handle a lane merger is to do a perfect zipper merge right at the point of merging. But everyone in the lane that’s ending always tries to merge early, and too many people in the other lane don’t want to let anyone in when they get to the merge point.

As far as space in traffic, traffic jams are actually waves that propagate back though the stream of cars. The only way to end them is to have enough space between vehicles to allow the traffic stream to compress without losing speed. The spaces in traffic also make room for people to change lanes without causing anyone to brake for them. Those braking events are often the triggers for traffic waves.

The zipper merge only works best when there's traffic. If there's no hold up in either lane, merging when there's an opening is best, otherwise you increase the risk of slowdown at the end of the merge.

Also, technically it isn't faster. It's just more space efficient. I do think everyone should do it in traffic though as it is a single easy to follow rule.

Double lane roundabouts.

You only use the fucking outer ring right before you want to exit. If you want to exit on the 3rd, you go inside, so others can come in in the first and the second. Otherwise it just becomes a very expensive single lane roundabout.

Roundabouts in the US are a nightmare. Not sure how it is in the rest of the world, but it is complete ass over here. Nobody uses them correctly, I swear

im pretty sure at least single lane roundabouts are good in australia

I swear where I am nobody understands how little time you spend going around the loop once, instead of stopping dead and plugging up the roundabout while some pedestrians go by.

Double lane? Try quad-lane turbo-roundabouts. They're something no theory ever prepares you for, but the dumber you go in, the better yo come out.

Still nothing compared to the magic roundabout in Swindon.

That is 6 roundabouts in one.

due to cognitive bias, roughly 80% of drivers think that they are "above average" in their driving ability.

AKA, you're probably overestimating your driving ability and are not as good of a driver as you think you are..

sucks for everyone else but im different

You and me both. Come on, we don't need these bad drivers bringing us down!

you're probably overestimating your driving ability and are not as good of a driver as you think you are..

Every day I drive, I prove that I'm a superior driver. I keep my head on a swivel and look at all my rear view mirrors on rotation. I can tell what people are going to do before they do it.

Yeah, that absolutely holds water. I can’t tell you the number of people I’ve seen making stupid decisions on the road and barely recovering from the mistake. It’s a bad combination of misjudgment and lack of skill. I’ve been run off the road by someone merging into where I was because they didn’t want to brake, I’ve been cut off by someone who almost lost all traction after merging so quickly, I’ve been “challenged” by someone revving their engine wanting to beat me in a race (while there were many, many cars around) and much more.

I think people in general need better driving classes, stricter requirements to begin driving, and police should be more worried about behaviors like these on the roads compared to just speeding.

Honestly, one of the biggest reasons I want to build a car for auto crossing is because I want to become a better driver. It will be fun, sure, but if I can train myself to know how to react to extreme situations, then my thought is that in an emergency, I should be able to make the right reactions.

It’s because it’s true. Think about how many drivers you see on the road on a journey. Sure you’ll see some inattentive ones and some dangerous ones, but really it is a very small percentage that cause almost all the issues.

On an imaginary bell curve it is a huge spike of terrible drivers, then a normal bell making the vast majority above average because of the skew.

That they are driving around a 1 tonne piece of metal.

Tailgating doesn't get you there faster. Most highway accidents would be avoided if people would just leave some space, and then we wouldn't get stuck in accident traffic jams for hours.

Somewhat counterintuitively, traffic will flow better and you'll get places faster if you just leave some space (and you'll be safer and use less fuel as you won't be always on the accelerator and brakes)

Tailgaiting will definitely get you there faster in many situations. I can't count the number of times I've had an asshole blocking the passing lane with little traffic, and then I went on to tailgate, honk, and frighten them out of the way only to continue unimpeded for miles.

The honking part is the key…

In Tennessee where I live, if the person in the passing lane does not merge to the right after passing, you are permitted to honk, and if they still won’t move, are permitted to pass on the right, if available

Great, and how many times will you be able to do that before dying in a car crash?

You can honk from a distance after letting them know you are there. Sound does travel faster than 70mph.

Getting up to speed to merge. Don’t stop on a highway on-ramp. If there’s a car in the lane you want to be in, then speed up to get in front of that car, or slow down and get behind it. There’s no “stop in the middle of the road to let you in” on a freeway.

Where I am this seems to only be capable by people who work at NASA as everyone else can't seem to grasp the concept at all. I've seen people crawl off the ramp into 70+ mile an hour traffic, not get over until they're damn near in the dirt, even if they have a shit ton of space to merge or slow down while on the freeway to 35mph then get onto the off ramp to exit.

Why is this such a damn hard concept??

If you're using your brakes a lot it's probably because you were using your accelerator a lot a few seconds prior.

Your headlights are for other people as much as they are for you. Get them adjusted every so often, don't put LED lights in halogen lenses.

Just because the car in front of you went through the yellow doesn't entitle you to do the same, if you're behind a large truck and can't see the color of the light, back off just a tiny bit, or use the other turn signals located 45 degrees to your left for your safety and convenience. If you're so close you can't see the light, you're probably so close traffic getting ready to move can't see you.

Getting out of the slow lane, passing, then getting off at the next off-ramp, and having the only car you just passed continue on past the offramp you just took saves you literally no time. And even if you're behind that car on the off ramp, you've probably saved no time.

Speed limits. If it says 50 and I'm going at 50 honking is useless.

And while I understand it's annoying, if someone is going at 48 in front of you, the time you will save by overtaking them isn't even enough for a whole ad. But if the circumstances don't allow for a safe overtake and you still risk it, you may lose more than an ad.

I think most people in that scenario are moreso annoyed that they can’t go the full speed than caring about how long it actually takes to go there. People just like driving fast, so arguments like this will never get through to those types of people

I don't know why they downvoted you; I'm also sure many people (if not all) think like that, but especially the way you worded it, it sounds even more ridiculous to me now:

68 mph: - "What is this idiot doing? This is hella slow, Imma overtake them."

71 mph: - "I'm fast as fucc boiiii"

Also it is a maximum limit.

Know what other speeds you may drive there? 40, 30, 25, 15, 10, even 5.

Know what speeds you are not allowed to drive there? 51

Here in Italy there's not a minimum limit but you cannot cause problems to the other drivers by driving too slow.

Same for most US states. You can’t slow down to the point of causing traffic to be slow or causing brake-slamming

Yield doesn't mean stop

It means go unless not clear (ie stop when not clear)

If there's no oncoming traffic, then you keep going. If there is then you have to stop to allow the traffic to pass before continuing (or enter safely before said traffic reaches you).

This is fundamentally how roundabout entrances also work. You're supposed enter when you have enough time to accelerate into an open slot. You don't have to wait until it is completely clear, nor do you have to explicitly stop at an entrance.

There are way too many stop signs in the US. Most should be yields in one direction and nothing in the other.

same with a stop sign. you gotta slow right down, but a complete stop isnt often needed

Are you sure about that? Where I'm from stop means stop regardless of traffic. I've been warned about it after been pulled over but not from US

idk about legally speaking, but its what everyone does in australia

Am from Australia. You are legally required to come to a full stop. You will fail your driving test if you don't, and police can fine you if they catch you.

driving test will fail you for basically anything. i personally rarely see anyone come to a full stop if there are no cars and its a known area. im not an expert on the law obv but i know its not the be all and end all

In almost all jurisdictions of the world, a shield with the word "stop" instructs you to actually come to a stop. That's why it says "stop". It is not a recommendation, and it's really dangerous that so many people don't treat them as such. There always is a good reason for placing a stop instead of a yield sign. Their purpose is not to inconvenience you, but to save lives. Collisions caused by people ignoring stop signs are common, and they commonly have bad ( deadly) outcomes as well. All to save a single second.

In addition, it's totally fine to come to a full stop at a yield sign of you feel it's necessary. If

Driving is an unnatural, fairly sophisticated activity that many people don't have an intuitive sense about. Especially when it comes to the proximity of danger to themselves or others.

I live in a developing SE Asian country where the only rule is: there are no rules. You can assume that everyone will always maneuver for their own benefit, especially if their vehicle is larger. This includes turning right in front of you, driving the opposite way, and stopping in the middle of all the lanes.

In a sense, this brings a certain type of order because it's predictably disordered. The key rule is that you will die if you trust anybody to look out for you except yourself.

I feel like it would be the perfect time for an “it’s a Dodge eat Dodge world out there” but you probably don’t have that much over there, if at all

Haha that's a good one. You're right, Dodge hasn't made it here yet!

Is 95 miles (~150km) one way considered normal in the US? I live in Bangalore, India and my commute is barely 20km (takes me 45mins - 1hour) which is too much for me.

Me and most people I know would rather shift than travel 150kms a day. Can’t imagine the toll it would take on me, my fuel budget and my car

This is definitely not normal. It only takes 1 hour and 20-30 minutes usually though, so the time isn’t the worst. Still not great, though.

If I could I would live closer to work, but it’s what I can afford

I live 70 miles away from work. It takes me 70-120 minutes depending on traffic. This is considered abnormal. Most of my coworkers and family live with 30 miles of their work.

I think people generally understand stopping distance. They're deliberately creating an unsafe situation in order to intimate the driver in front of them.

Intimate? Are you a dragon by any chance?

You know, like when you see your lady standing at the counter and then get up real close behind her for a warm embrace.

I imagine they meant intimidate, but I understand the amusement.

Roundabouts. Why don't people understand these? You wait for the car already in the circle to go, then you can go.

Though as someone who lives in the UK with LOTS of roundabouts, I wish people would be better at using their indicators to signal their intentions on roundabouts... so much wasted time waiting for a car coming from the right only to have them turn off before they get to me without indicating. Or even worse indicating left as if exiting the roundabout then carrying on round 😬

In the US with how infrequent roundabouts are, there is one in a popular city near me and it’s always a mess, right at town square.

And the part where you give way to people on the left or right (depending on country).

ZIPPER! ZIPPER MERGE YOU STUPID FUCKING COCKS!

You expect too much from people who can't even signal before turning.

Blinkers. Firstly, just using them at all, but also:

You need to let your blinkers blink a couple seconds before changing lanes. You don’t turn your blinkers on while changing lanes. You need to give the people beside you a second to notice your intention. One of my most hated features of newer cars is that quick 3-blink signal a lot of them have where you can tap the turn signal and it only blinks a couple times then turns itself off. People mostly use that AS they change lanes which defeats the whole purpose of a signal.

Also: Turn your blinkers on BEFORE you make the right or left hand turn, not as you are doing it. The other people at the 4-way need to understand your intention.

As an add on to your post. People that think AWD means they can drive in the snow. AWD helps to prevent them from getting stuck, it does not help them slow down

My brother always likes to say “Remember, it’s All Wheel Drive, not All Wheel Stop” when reminding people about driving in the snow.

I always say that the only direct control you have over your vehicles is which way the wheels are turned. Acceleration and braking are merely inputs you press to suggest to your vehicle to obey. Wether or not it stops or goes is up to physics

Your turn signal is a courtesy to let others know not to pull up behind you in the turn lane if they wanna go straight. It should be on once you approach a red light, not when you realize you need to tell the person behind you why you aren't going through the intersection. This leads to frustration in others and can cause dangerous driving.

Failing to activate a turn signal before a light turns green should be a punishable offense. I know there's no good way to enforce it, but you should have escalating repercussions; begin with a fine, escalate the value of the fines, eventually suspend the license.

This is especially important during lane changes on the highway. I mean it’s one thing to turn at a light, it’s another to pull right in front of someone going at high speeds with no reaction room

Deliberately riding in someone's blind-spot for gods know how long is not only unsafe, it's also fucking obnoxious. It might not be legally your "fault" if you do this and get sideswiped for it, but you brought it on yourself. Doubly so if the person you're pacing has had their signal on the entire time and all you're doing is blocking them from changing lanes.

I hate it when people do this and then when you speed up to get them out of your blind spot they speed up as well.

Happens all the time for me…

It’s why I changed my mirror setup. I cannot see my car unless I lean in the right or left mirrors, I use the rear view for what’s behind me. Then, when something is close to disappearing in my rear view to the left, it appears in my side mirror, then when it disappears from my side mirror, I have blind spot mirrors on the corners to transition there, then when it disappears from that, it is in my peripheral vision, so I may see the front of a car directly and their tail end in my blind spot mirror. Works wonders

Yield sign. It means stop if there are cars, pretty simple concept.

If I start blinking well before I turn from a multi-lane road, and if the lane next to us is open, I don't understand why so many people slow behind me instead of passing me in the other lane. I'm probably signaling so early because I know I'm going to bleed speed before the turn (to reduce brake wear), and I'm going to turn slowly and smoothly like I'm chauffeuring my grandma. When the person who stayed behind me (instead of conveniently passing) runs up my ass and there's still an empty lane beside us, now I'm prolonging my turn just hoping they'll get so impatient they finally go around. Maybe they'll learn something?

Drive slower when it's snowing... Also, put your lights on near dusk. It's more for other drivers to see you better.

I have replaced a car lengths or seconds guidance with looking as far as I can ahead to predict what the cars near me will be doing on the next 30 seconds or so. If I see brake lights half a mile ahead, that means the car inb front of me will probably be slowing down in about 30 seconds. So I take my foot off the accelerator and cover (but don't press) my brake pedal.

Traffic on the interstate it really pretty predictable IF you spend a significant amount of time looking far ahead instead of only at the far in front of you. Obviously keep watching the car on front of you, but not ONLY that.

This is a good practice in addition to not tailgating, but it falls apart in cases where you're behind an ugly SUV that blocks your view of what's ahead :(

IMO that just means you aren’t following back enough. In my daily commute, my only braking is before the highway, after the highway, or when somebody in front absolutely slams it or a wreck happens. Otherwise, I never have to brake even when someone in front of me does and I have no time to anticipate that brake. I just let off the accelerator and slowly roll up closer to them and then let them speed up ahead of me

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not talking about tailgating. I'm following at a reasonable distance given the traffic. I just can't see past the giant SUV because it's too tall. If I'm behind a sedan in the same areas, it's no problem at all.

If you're suggesting that I'm following too close until I can see the sedan in front of the giant SUV...I think I'd be maintaining a 1/4 mile following distance.

In general, I do agree with the principle of looking far ahead so you're ready to react.

I will say, I am speaking from experience of driving in very, very hilly, curvy hills of Tennessee. Sometimes I forget not everywhere is like that, and there will often be very little elevation changes. I guess I’m not used to that, I suppose, my bad

Fair enough! In turn, I'm speaking from experience of driving mostly in the Minneapolis area. The highways are probably a bit more constricted than what you're used to.

I have an easier time picturing what you're saying when I think about driving 50-200 miles away from the city. More hills, more curves, better visibility.

Oh yeah, Minneapolis is much more “on rails” than the roads here. Even our interstate highways sometimes are pretty old and dry on the asphalt side. I’ve had plenty of times where I’ve seen a lane closed with police around it to fill in a pothole or other road damage out in a very rural area

Yeah, they teach you this when you take CDL training since you take so long to stop in a semi. That and checking your damn mirrors all the time.

Know what lies ahead, know what's coming up behind/alongside. Great habits to keep even driving a normal car.

I live in an area that has a lot of stoplights. Guess how fast you have to drive to beat them? From 35 to 40 mph, or 60 to 65 mph. I simply did some math after timing a couple of streets. It is not perfect, but it will beat most. Guess which one people want to drive at? 50 mph. Guess which is the safest and most economical? It is 30 mph. Guess what is the most common speed by everyone? 50 mph because by law gives us 10 mph difference from speed limit before we get flagged. Guess how badly stopping from a high speed and waiting then accelerate literally every mile of stop lights does to mpg? Instead of a healthy 40 mpg, depending on if the people who accelerate aggressively don't have slow drivers like me in the group, then people are getting 15 to 25 mpg.

I end up having people swerve around me and accelerate aggressively only to stop at the light, but they are either in front of me or at the front waiting to hit the pedal to the metal to get up to their comfortable cruising speed. I drive electric and don't care about the amazing 0-60 acceleration but rather drive slowly and coast to a stop(as little regeneration as possible by staying at 0 kw usage) I usually get 5 m/kwh and could get up to 6 if I did 30 mph but I just try to follow the flow of traffic and the posted speed limit.

People riding my ass annoy me because I have to trust they are paying enough attention to not rear-end me. Surprisingly, I haven't gotten into an accident.

10mph???? we get 3kmh in australia im pretty sure

Cops don't have a desire to do speeding tickets, but the court ruled 5 mph, and everyone pushes to about 10 mph more. I see a lot of 60 to 90 mph drivers, too. Not to mention, the late night racing scene is still going strong enough. Which during summer quiets down majorly until winter and spring. A lot of outliers but when it is happening daily, you start becoming jaded and uncomfortable of driving even though the public transit system here sucks, unless you are downtown, then driving around with these speedsters all around you as you avoid people walking across the streets and hope to not get rear-ended by the guy riding your bumper. The streets that have nothing for miles and have a speed camera are the worst because the speed limit changes from 55 to 40 instantly and you are 300 dollars out of pocket to the scam of a speed trap system that has no effect or is worse on the safety of driving. I live road he'll and want to move. Just haven't figured out where to go.

For car distance I've seen 2-3 seconds start to be recommended, since people are not good at judging distance. So counting how long it takes to reach the same fixed point as the car ahead.

Car length per 10mph is much easier in my opinion. 2-3 seconds isn't based on any speed so by itself is quite useless. Your car's stopping distance changes with speed. It won't always be 2-3 seconds. Let alone counting reaction time at higher speeds.

Seconds is based on speed though. It's literally how speed is defined. Distance over time. At 60mph you travel 88 feet per second. So if you count out the seconds between when the car ahead passes say a road sign and you pass the same road sign and it's two seconds, there's roughly 176ft between your two vehicles. If you're going 25 mph, then two seconds equates to 73ft of space.

Which really gives you more space than car lengths per 10mph, so it's safer. 10mph=~14fps. The average length of a car is 14ft. So you end up giving double the space if you count out 2 seconds.

It is in fact, seconds. Not only is your own reaction time fixed, distance is speed × time so the distance you follow is farther, the faster your speed if you count out the same amount of time.

It works for all speeds, plus how do you know how far ahead 6 cars bumper to bumper is when you when going at highway speeds? The lines aren't always a good tell.

It's better to pick a bridge, a sign, an intersection or anything else interesting that the car in front passes, count 0-[x], 1-[x], 2-[x], 3... and so on where [x] is your favourite 4-syllable state or word. Count to 5 in a transport truck or in bad weather, count to 8 if driving a transport truck in bad weather.

State specific, but in mine, left turns on red are ok onto one-ways/freeway onramps.

That just because the car in front of you has a momentary change of speed, you don't need to slam on your brakes. Congrats, you've caused traffic for hours

Many people are comfortable using maximum throttle.

Almost no one is comfortable using maximum braking.

Zipper lanes.

Each person goes one after another in an orderly fashion because it gets people moving faster, but instead you get asshats that either are trying to bully people by not letting them into their lane or trying to sneak in with the person coming into the lane because gee whiz, there’s a small opening!

It makes me so mad to see people not know how a zipper lane works, literally the easiest shit in the world.

The risk undertaken to make a short trip at 20mph over the speed limit isn't worth the few minutes it might save. On paper it seems like it would save a lot but the reality of inevitable stop lights and traffic cause different results.

Well, it would save a significant amount of time on a long trip, like my commute, where about 80 miles of my one way trip are all highway. At 70mph average, that distance is 1 hour and 8 minutes. At 80, it’s an hour, and at 90, it’s 53 minutes. Could very well be the difference of being very late or on time for work.

That said, there’s more job opportunities out there than lives one has…

Passing doesn't save much time when the city you're in has a ton of long red lights, There's a highway I travel daily, rather short 12 mile lap. People will absoluty blast past me going 20-30 above the speed limit, and then 10 minutes later they will be right infront of me at a red light. There's no point in making your ride so much more dangerous just to shave a few seconds off your time.

I also have people pass me, merge back in, and then brake hard to turn off pretty fucking often on this commute. It's insane what people will do.

At higher speeds, when you swerve you can't just swerve back to where you were. You need to get the car stabilized after sudden turns.

This is a good one! No one has mentioned this before yet here

I absolutely hate when cars turn left into the right lane.

I absolutely hate when cars turn left into the right lane.

I had to fight off a Honda fit who didn’t fit with me in the way the other day because of this. Scary stuff

Wow, that's a lot of driving! How many hours is your commute?

An hour and a half each way. Hoping to get working from home more often, to be honest.

It’s a lot of mileage, but it means I’ve gotten the highway driving thing down pretty well

People hear I live 65 miles away from the office and freak. I remind them they live 20 miles away and I can get to the office faster than they can. It's all about perspective.

Your car 100% definitely has automatic headlights, so why the fuck are your headlights off in the middle of the night??

No? There are still plenty of vehicles without automatic lights. I own 4 cars and none of them have auto lights.

This annoys me too, but I find that lots of shops turn off the headlight's automatic mode when brought in for service. This leaves hapless drivers unaware of the fact that they are driving around with just their DRLs on until they either get a ticket, complain about it to the dealer, or figure it out on their own.

"Slower traffic keep right."

I don't care if you're going the speed limit or even 20mph over it; if somebody passes you on the right, it's because you were in the wrong lane.

I hate people who hang out in the passing lane as much as anyone, but for those overtaking at 15 mph over the speed of the rest of traffic, allow me to explain:

The rest of us can move over a lot sooner if everyone is driving predictably at a reasonable speed for current traffic conditions.

The person overtaking at 15 mph faster than the wisdom of the crowd - that person is causing the very delays that are slowing then down.

The rest of must move slower and change lanes slower until the reckless driver is well away from us.

When there’s nobody else on the road, I see no problem with driving as fast as you want. When I’m passing someone else though, I usually only go 5+ what they are, even if I was just going 20+ in the lead up to them. I’ll let off the accelerator and by the time I reach a proper following distance, we’re close to the same speed

I don’t necessarily think people going too fast are the reason for slower traffic, I think it’s other behaviors like lane changing without signaling, following too close and braking, etc., but I’m sure it contributes

Nice. And that's the fast play. If I see someone approaching at that speed, I can find a gap and get over ASAP, even though I was just passing someone myself.

For the clowns that keep doing 15 mph over at they approach, I hold still until they either find a way around, or have matched speed. Anything else would be reckless on my part.

Yup. There’s a specific few cars I recognize on my commute, one of them is in a blue Chrysler 300 and he drives me nuts. Never signals, drives anywhere between 70 and 90 with no consistency, and follows right behind your bumper. Even if you move over to let him pass, he may just sit there in the left lane for no reason.

Those are the kinds of things that makes the highway dangerous IMO

If there is traffic because two lanes merge, and you're passing slower cars to zoom up and merge at the last possible second, you're the reason there's traffic. Everybody else has to stop for your inconsiderate ass, and you don't get anywhere faster.

Match speed and merge without braking. If you have to brake to merge, you are the asshole.

If I'm reading this right, I think you're wrong.

If the two lanes are merging both lanes should be proceeding without changing lanes right up until the merge, then everyone does the zipper merge, taking turns.

The wrong thing to do: you see the merge up ahead, so move lanes right way. That results in the blocked/ending lane being wide open and the other lane being jam packed as everyone tried to get over before they are supposed to merge. Cars should be spread evenly over the two lanes, right up until zipper time.

If someone merges early and you zoom ahead and pass cars only to then merge, you aren't doing a zipper merge anymore and have now slowed down the lane of traffic more because now more cars are entering the travel lanes than those cars already in the travel lanes are able to move forward. The zipper merge only really works if everyone does it and does it in the correct order.

You're right that merging too soon creates traffic if it causes people to brake, but an ideal zipper merge doesn't require anyone braking to let you in. The "space" in the lane that is ending is the space you should use to zipper. If you zoom to the front of it and stop, you fucked up and now everybody is going to suffer.

If you are going to merge to the right, for instance, you should look right and match speed so nobody has to slow down to let you in. If everyone is already stopped, by all means pull forward and wait your turn. But if the traffic on your right is moving, you should not be going faster than they are.

Likewise if you are in the lane that is continuing, you should drive slow enough that you don't have to stop, and leave enough space in front of you to let a car in. If you zoom ahead to close the gap and then slam on the brakes, you're the snowflake in an avalanche of traffic and you're making it worse.

I think we're in agreement. If everyone is already stopped, stay in the merging lane until the very end, and hopefully people on your lane stay behind you, and you can reset the zipper.

I think it's fine to even maintain highway speed, right up until the merge, if lane that is ending is wide open. Gotta go somewhat slow and out wide, though because some dip won't see you and will pull out suddenly, probably they just finished sending a sweet text and decided to pass.

I would suggest slowing down more gradually, but yeah the biggest problem with any strategy is that there's always some dip who is too impatient to wait their turn.

But a car getting 1 car length ahead of me means I've failed at life and women won't like me