The "healthcare" system isn't broken, it works perfectly.
You're just mistaken about what its purpose is.
It's one of the most beautiful examples of capitalism working as intended: When you're hurting or dying, your demand for healthcare is unlimited, and you're in no position to compare prices or services, so cost is determined by the maximum amount that can be squeezed out of you during your remaining lifetime.
To spell out the point here - healthcare isn't the point of the healthcare industry under capitalism - profit is. Any healthcare delivered is going to be the bare minimum required to separate you from your money.
I've worked in hospital systems since I graduated from college. There has been one meeting (out of all the meetings!) that I have absolutely never forgotten due to something that was brought up.
They thought it was super cool to talk about how much cash our new surgical center was bringing in. I know it was small in the scheme of things, but in my head a hospital should be super happy when they don't have to perform surgery on a person. They shouldn't be happy to perform surgery so that they can make money.
For me it was a quarterly town hall with hospital leadership and they kept pushing “we are a business…” and all I could think was “no, we are a hospital…” because being a business is indicative of being profit motivated. I know, I know, that’s exactly what it is, but it just really bothered me to hear that line over and over.
When you have an actual functioning competitive market the money you bring in correlates with the value of the service you provide, so it makes perfect sense to be happy about the money the new surgical center is bringing in. That means it's useful.
The problem is that the health care market is regulated and subsidized in so many ways, many of them conflicting with each other, that competition is very limited and price discovery is reduced to "whatever the patient (and their insurance) can afford to pay" since they can't go anywhere else. Fix that and there won't be any reason for hospital owners or employees to feel guilty about making money.
Most healthcare systems in the US are non-profits. To run a non-profit, you still need revenue to operate no matter where you are or what you do. They have to pay their own bills just like anyone else.
Bring on the downvotes. Then go ahead and take all of your local hospital’s funding and see what happens.
Edit: maybe people misunderstood my point? People are replying and saying that profit shouldn’t be part of healthcare. Yes, but that doesn’t solve the problem of funding. Every hospital gets money. Pick your favorite country, the hospital still gets money.
Non-profits need revenue, true. But many non-profit hospitals are not acting like nonprofits. Here's a NYT opinion piece about it
You’re largely right about nonprofits not contributing enough, but that’s a systemic issue that reflects the poor quality of the system and how it’s funded in the first place, such as the way we allow insurance companies to take huge chunks of our money.
Yeah that's not what it's about at all. Hospitals need funding. Hospitals do not need a profit motive. Remove the profit motive and socialize the costs of healthcare. Just like every civilized country does it.
You say I’m wrong and then you go on to reiterate my exact point about money. Hospitals require funding and they are funded in every developed nation. Nonprofits do not have a profit motive. They argue with your insurance company for more money, just like every other developed nation, regardless of whether it is directly single payer or a system like Germany or Japan, which largely rely on private companies.
you're arguing for profit to remain a focus within the healthcare industry. That's anti-people, and why everyone is downvoting you. Everyone knows a hospital requires funding, we just want our tax dollars to pay it.
You’re putting words in my mouth. I never said that. I said anything needs money to run, even a nationalized system or a single payer system.
I want to downvote you simply because i hate this truth. I hate it, so, so much.
One of the most perfect parts of how powerful lobbies constructed it is that, unaffordable as it is, there IS no free market for care, you are forced into networks and PPOs, etc. so if someone DID offer a better price outside of your consumer funnel(sorry, insurance plan), your insurer would just deny the claim at the providers standard 20x cost price for uninsured procedures. Also, 100% price obfuscation so comparison shopping is impossible. It is end-game capitalism.
That's not how capitalism is meant to work at all.
Its obviously and uncompetitive market and something needs to change.
History shows us that capitalism inevitably tends towards monopolies
Yeah, no shit. I have a full time job, supposedly great health insurance, but I still can't actually afford to go to the doctor (never mind an ER). You're God damn right the healthcare system is broken!
Here's the fun part.
It's been like this for at least 20+ years.
I remember when my dad lost his job around 2002. I was a little kid and my mom told me to be careful when I'm playing outside, because if I broke my arm we could lose our house. That's something I don't think should ever be a reality, or something that parents or children should worry about in a functioning country.
Yes, but longer. It's absurd. Not sure exactly when premiums really got out of control, though. There's probably a good chart out there.
Democrats tried to fix this almost... 15 years ago ("thanks Obama"). Critical failure: no Medicare option for all. Most civilized democracies implemented right to free care 30+ years ago, should've been easy to follow. (Then higher education as well.) For-profit health insurance companies and their armies of lobbyists are evil and should be burned to the ground.
The worst part is Obamacare wasn't even good - it was a huge compromise with insurance companies... Before it was further compromised and sabotaged. It came out of the heritage foundation after all - everything they come up with is some way to cause mass suffering to make a few people a lot of money
On the pro column, they gave up preexisting condition rejections - definitely good - and increased child coverage to 25 - which is nice to have I guess. It also made it easier to get health care not coupled to your job. Which would be great, except insurance gives you so much less protection at this point that people aren't much better off than they were uninsured before
On the minus side, they came up with standards of care, which creates so much documentation it drove most of private practice out of business, forcing them to join healthcare systems. It's as much as 2-4x as much time doing paperwork as seeing patients, and then the doctor has to negotiate with the insurance company back and forth on a case by case basis.
And healthcare systems are basically regional monopolies, which is why costs ballooned so ridiculously. It was always bad in this country, but nowhere near this bad.
They also overwork doctors, which is probably a big part of why outcomes are getting worse - they're running healthcare as a business. People who have zero healthcare training are min-maxing health system policies to make line go up
Not to mention, the one big win was supposed to be a public option on the healthcare marketplaces - the idea is you get something like a government run, at-cost insurance company. That was going to be the base line - private competition with "government inefficiency"
It's all just such a shit show - the solution is so simple too. Insurance does three things - it collects a little money from a lot of people to cover big costs from the minority who suddenly needs a lot of it. It uses economies of scale/collective bargaining to keep costs down on the provider side. And it has to have enough bureaucracy/oversight to keep embezzlement/fraud/kickbacks at sustainable levels (you don't even have to stop it, you could just keep good records and watch for large scale offenders, and come down on them hard)
All of those things are better done without a profit incentive, and they work better the more people are in this kind of union... It's mind boggling that people don't understand how straightforward it is.
Hell, know what happens when a homeless man comes into the ER and racks up a 6 figure bill because they couldn't afford treatment until they're at deaths door? The hospital doesn't just eat the cost, we all pay for it collectively anyways
Because i think you're the thinking sort, I suggest you Google 'how Democrats sabotaged Obamacare' or similar, select a source or sources you trust and see what you take away from your reading.
Edit: look... I don't give a single shit about downvotes, what i want is for you to see... Just do it. Don't be afraid. Do it, and see for yourself
In my view it was similar to the recent Manchin / Sinema travesty. Zero Republican votes, plus some very cowardly or corrupt "centrist Democrats" that neuter or kill bill. A classic recipe for disappointment.
You are right. It was eerily similar. There was even a single scapegoat! His name was Ben Nelson, and he was a former insurance executive.
He joined politics for a few years, vsinglehandedly destroyed the public option, and then quit public service.
Makes you think, huh?
Fuck Joe Lieberman
Am aware, this is why I avoid seeking medical care.
all insurance is a scam but any insurance that doesn't cover you for the only thing it's selling is also fraud.
Insurance companies get away with fraud all the time.
Our (Australian) right wing government stopped increasing the amount they pay doctors when people visit, and the new left wing government isn't doing anything either.
So now I have to "co-pay" $30 whenever I visit, when it used to be free. I found that so outrageous that next time, I'm travelling half an hour to go to a clinic that still "bulk bills" (read: doesn't charge the patient).
If I was an American I think I'd just die of rage. I wonder how much that'd cost me.
Edit: Oops, turns out our new left wing government just recently INCREASED the GP payment rate, so hopefully we'll see more bulk billing places return.
I hope the number of bulk billing places starts to increase again. I get scared thinking about how we're becoming more and more like the US.
Fucking tired of people who suddenly see a problem when a) it happens to them or b) when they're no longer relying on the problem for their income.
"If I'm in this situation with my knowledge and with my financial resources and with my bully pulpit, then the average Joe doesn't stand a chance. The system is just broken," Adams said.
To be fair to him, it seems to be a common thread with many in the medical profession, probably because they dedicate themselves to a system that is fundamentally broken. Even the likes of Doctor Mike (Medical YouTuber, whose content I really enjoy) have painted things like universal healthcare in a way that highlights the problems without painting the full picture of why (systemic underfunding to push privatisation).
I don't want to excuse it, but it's a very common problem that few want to address in the field.
I think doctors know as much if not more than anyone how broken the system is and how it constantly fails people, disagreements more about what to do about it and fears about change.
And there's certainly some physicians organizing in support of single payer.
A lot of doctors are concerned about how much say or influence they would have in such a health system, but hey not like they have much as it is as everything has become giant conglomerates run by MBAs and private equity, so not much to lose. At least government is theoretically beholden to the people.
Doctor Mike lost any respect I had for him after his behaviour during the pandemic. He is a content creator far above being an actual medical professional.
How so?
I'm out of the loop.
From wiki:
On November 12, 2020,[20] for his 31st birthday, Varshavski traveled to Miami to attend a beach party that was also attended by a number of other people without masks, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Footage of the event was posted on Instagram and went viral, particularly on Reddit.[21] On November 18, Varshavski apologized for his actions in a YouTube video,[22] saying he "messed up" and he needed "to do better".[23] His attendance of the party was criticized by medical professionals. Bioethicist Arthur Caplan, director of the division of medical ethics at NYU Langone Health, said Varshavski "fails completely in being an appropriate role model and he should be called out, and he deserves even more criticism than he's getting so far."[23]
Thank you
I mean.. that's kind of why we never stop ranting and raving... To force them to find new sources of compassion and to find empathy for the other which they weren't taught by their family of origin. I'm tired of dealing with half the country being raised like thoughtless sociopathic fucking savages and eating the poor and each other.
A couple years ago, I ended up in an ambulance due to what turned out to be a small urethra stone. At the hospital, I had an x-ray. When that didn't find the problem, they gave me a CT scan. Once they found the stone, they called in a urologist. I got a consultation, prescription, passed the stone later that day (it was tiny), and recovered very quickly. My total bill was 243'000 Korean won - just about $200 USD. I only had the mandatory insurance that was paid for by my employer. Something to the tune of $50 a month that they are legally required to pay.
The US's system is completely fucked. Broken beyond repair. I wish them luck.
In the US your 243000 would still be the correct amount, but it would be USD.
that was the cost of just my ambulance ride
In other countries, the ambulance is free. They're just sitting there waiting around unless you use them, like firefighters. It makes no sense why it costs so much.
Do you ever have to decide if you want to call the fire department? No, it's "see smoke, call fire department".
Probably not for what OP described, but that's pretty close to the amount they billed my insurance when I broke two bones in my arm.
US Medical Costs aren't racked up by the complexity of the work or care being given, its by how many people are scheduled to see you, diagnose or provide care. Each of them has a set rate per appointment, so the 200,000 figure for a kidney stone that was confirmed by multiple different specialists is not far off. A broken arm at the ER is basically the trauma nurses, an emergency medical specialist, a surgeon or two, anesthesiologist and their respective teams. The more departments you get passed around to the more your bill goes up.
and 90% for upper administration and billing dept.
"Working as intended."
-Republicans
I think you mean
Working as intended
-the rich
It's the rich running this country. The political system is there to make the masses feel represented.
On February 14 I met my max out of pocket for the year. I had an upper and lower GI taken which is the bulk of the cost. My insurance is already refusing to cover some of my diabetes medication, because some people use it to lose weight (Mounjaro). I need it to keep my A1C levels under 10. I already weigh the ideal weight for my height. Because it's so expensive and insurance doesn't cover it, I will end up going without for the rest of the year. My old insurance covered it, but my company switched insurance in January. New insurance has never equaled better insurance. I'm so tired of insurance being tied to my job.
I just want to make sure one of the options you tried was a different medicine. Doctors can be pretty good about playing the insurance game sometimes
I love how it’s some bureaucrats job to decide what medication is best for his needs. Not OP, who had been having desired results prior to his employer switching insurance, and not his PCP, who is more closely tied to his outcomes than anyone else.
We have tried other medication, which is how we found that this one actually worked.
I had to ask. I’ve had doctors figure out how to best insurance
I paid 1200 USD a month for a family of 3 for my health insurance to have the privilege of paying more a hospital bill.
I had to go to the ER because I slit my pinky on some glass and waited in the ER for 5 hours. They had to rip then dried blood and paper towel that was stuck on my finger because it took so long.
After all that, I had to pay 3000usd of my own money which didn't cover my minimum. Why DA FUCK DO I EVEN NEED INSURANCE!?!?!?
The fucking nurse on staff that came to help me for a few minutes was not within my network. Ya fuck that hospital too.
For small wounds like that I generally recommend an urgent care clinic over the ER. Way cheaper and they can handle that shit. Save the ER for proper trauma.
Sure. If the urgent care is open.
God forbid you slice your hand open outside of regular business hours.
I used to get some random unexplained swelling in one leg. My wife has a family history of blood clots. I don’t , but that doesn’t keep her from panicking, or from inciting my own panic. Only way to know for sure that it’s not a clot, as far as anyone told me, is imaging…sonograms specifically.
I don’t think any urgent care around me has sonograms. It’s ER, or get PCP to refer out and have an appointment in 3 weeks.
If you Google “Ultrasound Machine” and look at the shopping listings, you’ll find more than a few entire fucking machines that cost less than half of just one of those visits. And what did I have for that time? A few hours of waiting, interspersed with 5 minutes with an ultrasound tech, and 20 seconds with a doctor telling me (in the hallway) that nothing was wrong.
Yes, this was general advice. If there’s no urgent care open and you need to see someone more immediately, go to the ER. For a cut that needs stitches, you can probably wait for the urgent care to open.
just learn to do it yourself, save even more!
Better yet, ignore it and save on materials costs too!
It’s illegal for them to send you a bill because a provider isn’t your network. One of the few good things passed under Trump. Lmk if you need any specific help or information in disputing that bill.
Edit: assuming this ER visit happened on or after 1/1/2022. Or potentially earlier depending on your state.
It has been years. I actually decided to move out of the USA. Paid the bill and decided to be more careful.
My wife had to go to the ER and we went to a hospital that was in network. The hospital is indeed in network but the fucking ER is a separate entity and was not. I guess we should have been better informed consumers. /s
ER was in-network. The nurse and doctor was also in-network. The second nurse, who connected me to the ECG, and the person who read the ECG was not in-network. No way of knowing at the time. Balance billing was permitted in that state at that time, which out-of-network provider used to the full extent.
I’m still salty about that.
That part is messed up. You shouldn't be dealing with individual contractors as a patient. All billing should go through the hospital, and be considered in-network provided the hospital is in-network, regardless of what kind of specialist sees you there. Any exception, such as bringing in someone who doesn't normally work there to treat a rare condition, should require separate and specific authorization from the patient in advance.
Ridiculous isn’t it? I had my annual physical a few weeks back, which for me is filling an online form and having my blood pressure read and a few blood tests. $550, insurance pays for everything.
Well. Almost. Turns out 2 of my blood tests were not covered by some healthcare bill passed in 2007. $267. And the mole I asked to be checked, billing code wasn’t covered as standard checkup, and so that question was $240. Mole was benign, and surprisingly didn’t result in some convenience fee.
That is seriously fucked up.
For me, I called my insurance on the phone while bleeding profusely and wanted to make sure I went to the right hospital. I still got hit with out of network bills.
Do you have Urgent Care near you? They could have done some stitches.
It was Sunday and all Urgent care is not 24 hours in my area. I actually waited so long in the ER that one of the Urgent Cares opened, but at that point I was already inside and triaged. If I knew I would wait inside for another 2 hours, I would have left.
I'd probably just super glue the wound closed myself.
Super glue spray was used in the Vietnam War to close wounds on the battlefield.
And it’s sometimes in first aid kits at places where slicing wounds can be common, like barbershops.
Still shouldn't use random superglue from the arts+crafts section, though. Sterility aside there's different types of cyanoacrylate. I don't think any are actually toxic but some are definitely less (as in zero) irritating to tissue.
Yeah but in the UK they have to wait 2 weeks to see a specialist
We have waits for specialists too. To get my vasectomy, I had to wait six weeks from my referral to my first consult, then another month from the consult to the actual surgery.
And then I got a bill from the surgical center, a bill from the urologist, and a bill from the anesthesiologist, despite only going to one office for the whole thing.
I'm in the UK. From my first enquiry to the operation was about the same...
... but I didn't get any bills after.
If I tried to go see my primary care doctor right now in the US, I'd probably have to wait at least 3 months for an appointment.
Where the fuck are you in the US that you do not have to wait for specialists? You living in Fantasy Land? Even a simple specialist like a dermatologist is a 2-3 month wait.
Yeah I know, it was a cruel joke. But if you talk to a con about this, you're sure to find this in their argument salad
He said UK. We only wish we only needed to wait 2 weeks for a specialist.
OECD data shows that wait times don’t significantly vary based on how a system is funded. The USA is just plain bad at wait times. That being said, the UK’s system is not the best example.
I just scheduled and appointment for my PCP. His next available is in June. Fucking 4 months for primary care.
I’ll take wait times in the UK with no bill over this bullshit any day.
Lol, we wish we could wait 2 weeks. My wife needed a tumor removed in her stomach and took 6 months.
Make Congress abide by the healthcare they make us abide by and this will be fixed overnight.
They live on a different planet. Our representatives are completely out of touch and there's no bringing them back. For the few good ones there are 99 career polticians out there carving out a niche for themselves and their families.
Who watches the watchmen? Well I've come up with a new branch named aptly:
The Duty Takers
99% agreed. I don't believe there are currently any "good ones". Everyone thinks "their guy" is going good and the rest suck and it's why we never have change in the guard.
If he thinks five grand is a big hospital bill, he's not living in the real world.
5 grand for something that can be fixed by quite literally buying salt and distilled water (obviously give or take a month, but that doesn't matter). Idk where you live but that shit is cheap where I am.
It's not that 5 grand is a big bill. It's that they're charging 5 grand for salt water.
Don't go to the ER for dehydration. If it's really that bad, find an IV lounge that can just give you an IV bag with some vitamins and maybe some meds.
It's like $150-$200, which I know is still expensive, but you don't need insurance and it's a quick in-and-out.
When that dehydrated, injecting liquids is way more effective than drinking them.
I highly doubt he just felt a little parched and decided to go to the ER. I also wouldn't suggest to others to diagnose themselves as dehydrated and go to an IV clinic (unless they perform medical check-ups from licensed physicians as well).
In an interview Monday with Business Insider, Adams said he went to the ER in Scottsdale, Arizona, in January after he became lightheaded while hiking on a work trip.
From his wiki he looks like a fit military figure who's probably not had the many health complications (is also still in his 40's). As a doctor himself and probably his colleagues around him (work trip), I imagine the recommendation is to get checked-up asap. It's also kind of ironic you're calling out the former Surgeon General and a licensed doctor while giving alternative medical advice lol.
It's not even alternative medical advice though. You go to the ER for dehydration and they're going to give you an IV of fluids and vitamins. I know because I've done it several times.
Whatever the Surgeon General's issue was, I'm sure he knew what was best for him and of course go to the ER if you're that bad.
But I've personally been in situations where an ER visit would have been warranted. I'm not talking just parched, it's when I've been frequently vomiting for 18 hours every 20 minutes and severely dehydrated because of my migraines. But instead of needing the ER, it took 10 minutes to get an IV at an IV lounge that took care of it for far cheaper and quicker. And then I'm not taking up a bed from someone who could use it more.
There's nothing wrong with getting IVs because the people administering them are trained nurses. It's not "alternative medicine" because it's literally what the ER gives you.
lol sorry, I didn't mean "alternative medicine". I was referring to alternative (noun 1. One of a number of possible choices or courses of action) medical advice. Though, I haven't looked into the claims the IV clinics make which might skew towards the "alternative medicine" side (ducked it, FTC has been going after a lot of them for false advertising). But, we're talking strictly dehydration so that's moot.
I am glad that the clinics worked out for you and sympathize as well coming from a family with a history of migraines. If you have a diagnosed medical history with a common side effect and you personally decide to go treatment first without further investigation that is your personal choice (again, I have no clue what the intake is like at one of these clinics i.e. blood pressure, heart rate, etc). You are self-diagnosing though regardless in this instance, same as anyone taking some otc medicine for pain (which can be fatal like a gallbladder or mundane like some bloating). This seems like a case of a sudden-onset of symptoms which he hadn't experienced before, which can happen as someone gets older. I took offense to your comment as the dehydration diagnosis didn't come till after his visit, so "knowing" beforehand is a gamble in this situation and one I wouldn't lightly pass onto others as good medical advice.
This is the worst advice anyone has ever given.
Are IV lounges something anyone can just walk in and do?
Yeah, it's actually kinda wild because the first time I went in, something about it felt illegal. But nope, they're perfectly fine and a great way to treat dehydration, hangovers, migraines, general pain, nausea, etc. Anyone can walk in and use them.
They've personally saved me several times when my migraines have gotten to their 10/10 point because the meds hit so much more effectively through IV than orally.
I've been considering starting a vitamin regiment and, after doing a little research based on the information you've given me, this seems perfect. How often do you go in?
I'm living in the real world, most I've ever had to pay was parking and I guess a few bucks for meds. I remember how $100 for meds a fe years ago made me cringe.
But I also live in a first world country, with first world problems.
Two years ago my dad had a cardiac arrest.
Resuscitation, ambulance ride, four stents, nearly a week in a coma in intensive care, another week recovering. No charge at all. Due to Covid and them not really want everyone putting their germy hospital hands on the ticket machines, even the parking was free.
All I paid was a few quid for a bottle of water and some biscuits from the hospital shop.
Now there are issues with the NHS, in that anything non-urgent can take a very long time and might not get resolved at all, and it being chronically understaffed to the point of negligence (which is intentional sabotage by our government) but for emergencies, it's amazing.
That sounds so... wonderful. The patient and family get to focus on health and feel like they belong to a society that values their wellbeing? 🤩
Well I wouldn't go that far. I do live in the UK after all.
But it's nice to not be bankrupt, so there's that.
Capitalists are constantly telling me that if the Mayo Clinic wasn't charging $5000 for saline drips, the service simply wouldn't exist and he'd have died. This is what happens all the time in Communist Countries.
Besides, $5000 is a small price to pay for your life. If anything, he should have been charged extra. The hospital could have extorted him for five figures, easily, if they'd just twisted the screws a little tighter.
The real story is the surgeon had a problem with the hospital charging him so little. Only a broken system would miss that he could've paid well above $5000.
Praise be thy rules of acquisition.
Rule 10?
Fuck this joker. He’s the IDIOT that said, as the SURGEON GENERAL, “Seriously people - STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!” (Tweet was then deleted). He should lose his medical license and be imprisoned for the excessive number of deaths his lies caused.
When exactly did he say this? At the beginning of the pandemic when things were still uncertain?
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you if he said that at the beginning. To be clear, I know masks were an effective protection against the coronavirus. But at that time there was a lot of uncertainty, first, and second, he was half-right: there was a shortage of masks, and medical professionals needed them at a very critical time. I followed that advice. Then when the CDC said "oops, no actually DO wear masks!" I started wearing them.
So..... I'm not saying he was right. I'm just saying we should judge people in context. Don't pile him up with the true idiot anti-mask bundle.
They were lying in order to get as many masks as possible to healthcare staff. Perhaps they saved more lives doing so
They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching
That's technically true, but the correct answer is more nuanced then the average adult has the attention span to understand or the character limit of twitter.
Masks are better at stopping the wearer from spreading it to other people, but a lot of people were getting infected through spit going into their eyes. Did this post occur during the mask shortage were even surgeons couldn't get the masks they needed to do their work? The quote you gave said to stop buying masks, not to stop wearing them. Best practice was to use a reusable mask and face shield.
We've already had this discussion ad nauseum since 2020. It's 2024. Just stop with spreading information that can fuel the anti-mask bullshit.
I understand that wearing eye protection can reduce the risk of catching the virus. But to say "masks are not effective" being technically true is irresponsible.
People only accepting simple answers are why so many people died. I never said masks aren't effective. You reduced my comment until it lost it's original meaning.
Yeah, sorry, man. Freaking anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers had me on edge for so long, that it was practically an automatic response.
Only $5000? Dude got lucky. Fuck American healthcare.
Broken by design
Dr. Jerome Adams, who was the nation's top doctor from 2017 to 2021, said he was slammed with an almost $5,000 bill after being treated for dehydration at a Mayo Clinic emergency department, where he got labs and a few IV bags.
Awesome. I'm going there at the end of March.
Oh shoot, you're the person who's been having trouble eating, aren't you. Man, I hope they're able to help you out. So sorry for your health issues.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
Oh, buddy, best of luck!
Thanks!
You're gonna get SLAMMED!!!! They're gonna bite your toes put your dick in a curling iron! You'll leave with a cured appetite and they'll FUCKING DUNK ON YOU with a $600 Billion bill! Don't forget to take advantage of their financial assistance; the whole medical system may be financially and morally ruined, but there are some ways to navigate semi-relatively unscathed.
I'm guessing we're going to get through our $10,000 deductible at least.
I genuinely hope it goes well. I excited await hearing about your progress.
Thanks. I sure hope so too because we have no idea where to go next.
There's a pretty good prison in Terre Haute
I'm fairly certain a federal prison is not going to help me with my medical issues...
When the system can't milk you for any more wealth, your next destination is a poor person death camp.
If "the system" can't milk me for any more wealth they won't need to put me in prison because I'll starve to death.
Hence me going to the Mayo Clinic.
Are you going to pick up other ingredients at the Bread Clinic and Cheese Clinic or are you just focusing on condiments first?
Long story short: I haven't been able to eat any solid food for over six months and no one knows why.
(Please no medical advice, I am begging you. The general you, not you specifically.)
Have you tried chewing it?
I know you're joking, but I am literally unable to.
Nothing is more frustrating than people giving unsolicited medical advice. I've IBD and I mentioned on a post about people buying cheap frozen food why some people do it. I explained that I literally can't do prep, cook and watch the stuff cooking due to the symptoms when having a flare up. Wouldn't you know I got the typical reply that I should learn to cook (I know how) and eat healthily and seek medical advice (I've a specialist nurse I can contact at any time and it's difficult to eat anything when in constant pain and I feel nauseous after eating) so I feel you dude with not wanting to hear it at all no matter how well meaning some people are.
And they really are well-meaning, I know that, but it's so tiring to say "yes, we've been over that. It's not that. I don't fit those symptoms." or whatever over and over.
I hope you find a solution for your IBD that helps you, I'm sure that's really awful.
Oh but armchair doctoring is so fun (for everyone else). It’s like Guess Who: House M.D. edition.
Believe me, I've noticed.
The Mayo Clinic specializes in a lot of niche stuff which means people often have to fly from all over the country to visit this specific hospital in Minnesota
I know. I count myself lucky live less than an hour away from it. My grandma has actually gotten flown in on mayo one before for an emergency (speaking of expensive bills).
My original comment was a joke because the top post was talking about the surgeon general going to one of their emergency rooms and op was talking about planning to go there by which they meant mayo clinic but it could also be read as them meaning the ER.
Like mayonnaise?
Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
Is mayo a solid food?
Idk about you but I tend to avoid the chunky solid parts of the mayonnaise.
He got more done than he said. He likely went in for syncope (since he's a doctor and that's one of the few things that might scare them) and they did an ECG and possibly something else (particularly if he requested it). That said, 5k is still ridiculous.
Oh look at that. The sky is blue. Oh, and water is... wet! It's wet everyone! Oh, no, not water, it's piss being thrown at us by our government's lack of representation, ethical apathy, and greed.
I have a little experience with the medical billing system for this fantastic country that I'm lucky and unlucky enough not to live in (yes, both lucky and unlucky; different reasons).
It's messed up. There are band-aids in place to keep costs down for charges billed to medicare and medicaid, but that just makes the whole thing worse because it adds a lot of extra complexity and everyone else likely gets fleeced to make up for the new overhead. The medicare 8 minute rule itself isn't that complex, but add modifiers for activities performed by different providers (in therapy, this could be a PT and a PTA providing the same service, for different lengths of time, on the same visit)? It goes NUTS.
Single payer healthcare with optional private coverage would solve nearly everything. The cost to the patient first and foremost, but also the cost to the government itself, due to greatly decreased complexity. And private clinics and private insurance don't have to disappear, they can still provide more high-end services, or shorter wait times, for those who can ACTUALLY AFFORD IT.
Really, did you need to go to the ER to know that? Shit has been broken for a while now.
Lots of people think it's only the uninsured that get screwed, but it's common to get a surprise 5,000 bill a few weeks after you've paid your copay.
But here's the trick:
As of July 2022 the credit bureaus no longer report medical debt. So just don't pay the greedy fuckers.
This isn’t news, it just underscores how out-of-touch some demographics are to what most of us deal with.
"Here's a bottle of water, that'll be $5000. Have a nice day."
It was probably Pedialyte
Intravenous Pedialyte, I love it. Wish they added Red 8 and Blue 40 to IV bags to make them more fun and so that my kids begged to go and get IV drips.
Don't forget the carbonation for cool looking bubbles!
Did he even get the full bill. Last time I went to an ER, I paid off something and then two years later got sent another bill. I called and said, this is a mistake, right? First lady said probably, everyone else said nope. This is your physician's bill. The other one was a hospital bill. I asked, why did I then get it for the first time after a visit from TWO years ago?? What was goin on in the mean time? "Oh we were transitioning companies, probably something to do with that?" I tried to fight it, I got a reduced price, but that was so insane to me
I got hit with Lyme AFTER I lost my job last year. I got the bill for my ER visit, it sucked, but I was expecting it. To add insult to injury they sent me another bill, which was physician bill. The system is so fuvking stupid, it will kick you when you’re down. Next time I’m just flying to Europe somewhere to get a treatment.
Only $5000? He got lucky.
Yeah.. Because there's no place for downward pressure on health expenses.
Hospitals are incentivized to raise prices as much as possible, because they know insurance companies will negotiate downwards. Insurance companies pass all costs back down to the pool while working as hard as possible to deny everything. Drug companies know they have a captive market, nobody else is making that medicine you need for survival so "Cha-Ching!". Employers are looking for the cheapest health plans possible which means the shittiest plans for their employees. And any company that sells medical equipment is looking at selling it for as much money as possible (or in a "package" that gets hospitals to overcharge on individually wrapped tylenol).
Hospital Admins spend more time and money to make sure patients are charged $20 for a $0.10 pill than they trying to keep enough doctors and nurses on staff.
Medicare for all, that's the only way to start righting the ship here. Nationalizing the entire healthcare system would be the next step. It's beyond stupid that we run healthcare for profit.
So it’s actually more complicated than that (at least to your first point, the points about drug companies is accurate). First, I support M4A, especially plans like Bernie’s that improved reimbursement. One major issue is that the government (Medicaid in particular, Medicare also) pays below costs in some cases. So hospitals charge a shit ton to commercial insurance to make up for their loss on other patients.
In terms of employers saving money, most large employers have moved to self-insurance (70-80%, depending on how you define “large”).
In a single payer system, why would how much the payer pays for service matter, on a per service basis? The payer may as well just run the entire system. Essentially, an integrated delivery network (like Kaiser Permanente) on a national scale.
I don’t mean this in a condescending way, but that’s a great question. Lmk if my answer isn’t clear and I can elaborate more.
Single payer is not nationalized healthcare. Those are two different models with very different implications for funding.
Any business could buy up their downstream suppliers, just like the government could nationalize hospitals. But most governments (and most businesses) don’t do that.
In a single payer system, hospitals would get paid from one source, plus supplemental services that people buy out of pocket. What a hospital gets paid impacts what they can pay their employees. Ever heard someone say “why would they be an EMT for $15 an hour when they could make that flipping burgers?” It’s the same logic. Private companies lobby single payer govts so that they can attract employees, among other things they can do with money. More money makes running anything in a capitalist society easier.
If you’re nationalized, then the healthcare workers are government employees.
I read some senator or congress-person suggested before about doing medical tourism instead. Like you go visit Spain or Norway to get your knee or spine fixed for cheap.
This is the most Patrick Starr™ solutions I've ever heard for medical care.
Mexico has a large medical tourism industry. Mostly for dental but other things too.
You can go on a ferry and get a nice vacation in a fairly tropical area, and get your needs met medically and go home for less than it would cost in the states with insurance.
As a Canadian, the idea of paying thousands, even in Canadian dollars, for a single healthcare visit, seems absolutely insane to me.
I can't imagine living under that kind of threat. I would be deathly scared of getting injured, by no fault of my own, and ending up in the poor house as a result. Forget having any.... More voluntary.... medical costs, like having a child. I couldn't imagine doing that knowing what it would cost me.
Honestly, if I was in that situation, I'd be scared of doctors too. Having to choose between having good health but being unable to afford the basics, or living with disorder or disease, would probably break me.
Welcome to America....
And it's not hard to extrapolate the problems you start to face when the average person is afraid to go to the doctor
I recently got one single stitch in my hand. $2k after insurance paid their portion and I think I have pretty good insurance. I should have done it myself.
WELL DUH!?
Maybe it was the Nestlé hospital?
I wonder if he just noticed because it's been capitalist hellscape for a long time now. Welcome to the trenches, fellow working class member. Your ability to have basic healthcare is based entirely around your ability to scrape enough money together between hospital visits. Failure to do so will have lifelong impacts, so I suggest you start eating cereal for dinner to save some cash for the next time you need basic human help.
Feature not a bug
Why, yes.
Yeah but the market sets the price. This is capitalism. If you want to change the price, don't go there. Pick a cheaper clinic. There are plenty of hospitals. It's up to the consumer to price shop, emergency or not. I'm sure the Mayo clinic is making razor thin margins.
---- heavy sarcasm
Dude went the the mofo Mayo Clinic for dehydration. Gets a $5000 bill.
Surprised Pikachu face.
Well, everyone knows you're not supposed to go to the Mayo Clinic for dehydration. That's just common sense.
Of course a saline drip is going to cost you $5k at the Mayo Clinic. DUH!
He should have gone to the other clinic that doesn't charge as much. And the name of that clinic is...
Mexico
Not sure what the sarcasm is about, but the Mayo Clinic is one of the best hospitals in the world. It's not unreasonable for them to charge higher than average.
I'm not saying that makes the $5k bill reasonable, just giving more context to the comment you replied to.
the Mayo Clinic is one of the best hospitals in the world
You don't need a heart surgeon to provide a saline drip.
Do you have a choice of which hospital you go to when put into an ambulance?
(Never ridden in one, when I needed one I drove my self out of fear of the bill).
Generally speaking, the ambulance should take you to the nearest available ER. Some shady services may divert riders to affiliated hospitals.
So you've got even less control than you'd initially suspect.
You're right, a RN would probably be qualified. But what's your point? Their nurses are also paid more than average, not just the heart surgeons. If you need basic care go to a basic clinic.
(Not defending the $5k bill)
(Not defending the $5k bill)
Then what are you defending? An IV takes a few minutes to insert. If the RN is earning $200/hr and the bag costs 10x the going rate of around $11, you're still talking about a 16x markup.
I'm defending the idea that one of the best hospitals in the world would charge more than an ordinary clinic. All healthcare in this country is overpriced, but I don't see anything wrong with incentivising people to offer better services. The best doctors and nurses should get paid the most.
I’m defending the idea that one of the best hospitals in the world would charge more than an ordinary clinic.
Would affordability not be factored into a hospital's quality? If a hospital puts even the most routine care at an inaccessible price point, I would consider that a black mark on their ability to deliver service.
I don’t see anything wrong with incentivising people to offer better services.
Again, I don't see any relationship between the price-tag of a saline drip and the quality of service. Not when the price is that astronomical.
If you put in an order for a hamburger, the meal shows up, and then waiter hands you a check for $500, the advertised assertion that this is "The Best Burger!" does not transform a quarter pound of grilled ground beef into its weight in gold.
The best doctors and nurses should get paid the most.
There is no reason to believe a saline drip at Mayo Clinic is going to be meaningfully different from any bog standard city hospital.
All the price tag accomplishes is to screen people in need of care from the facility based on their income.
If a hospital puts even the most routine care at an inaccessible price point, I would consider that a black mark on their ability to deliver service.
The only part of my post you didn't quote was the part where I said I think all healthcare in this country is overpriced. I agree with what you said here, and I'm not sure why your post seems so hostile.
Hospitals have finite resources. The most skilled and ambitious health care professionals should be using their talents to help people with the most challenging illnesses, not spending their time on routine (but still life-saving) treatments.
I think all healthcare in this country is overpriced
That's cool. So why defend an obvious case of overpriced health care by insisting the clinic is exceptional? An exceptional clinic would - presumably - be exceptionally accessible. Throughput is as much a function of quality as individual results.
Hospitals have finite resources.
That's fine. Dehydrated people require a finite medical intervention.
The most skilled and ambitious health care professionals
Are not required to administer a saline drip.
So why defend an obvious case of overpriced health care by insisting the clinic is exceptional?
Please point out where you think I was defending overpriced health care, so I can clear up this misunderstanding once and for all.
The best doctors and nurses should get paid the most.
You're using an arbitrary metric (best doctor) to assign a discrete value (most pay). That's inevitably going to result in every doctor with a high opinion of oneself to charge a higher rate than their peers.
Never been to the US before I guess 🤷♂️ He got off pretty light at 5k.
You'll be surprised in two years when you find out you owe that.
Is that his out of pocket expense of what the hospital billed insurance?
Because my hospital billed insurance $15,000 and all I got was 1 bag of saline.
He must know some important people to get such a discount.
Can't the surgeon general just perform surgery on himself to save the money?
No way!
Why didn't he just go to one of them spa and get a $150 iv drip
You mean those mobile IV vans? Those are only in major cities and when you're suffering dehydration from like a stomach virus you don't have time to schedule an appointment if you're dying.
Treatment for dehydration should absolutely be added to free essential care under Obamacare, at a minimum.
In my area it's not a van but a brand with a bunch of locations all over they do like freeze therapy and all sorts of iv drips. Definitely further away than the nearest hospital but we also shouldn't need to go to a hospital for things like this that can be handled at walk in clinics if insurance companies would start offering better pay to those types of business.
This is only news to people who read Business Insider
Or...you know, maybe drink a full Pedialyte
Welcome to the revolution friend.
My GP claims to be trying to agitate her peers at conferences, focusing on the ones with chronic issues. She tells them, if they don't advocate for patients, no-one will.
Lawyers don't count, because by the time they enter the scene, the damage is done.
The "healthcare" system isn't broken, it works perfectly.
You're just mistaken about what its purpose is.
It's one of the most beautiful examples of capitalism working as intended: When you're hurting or dying, your demand for healthcare is unlimited, and you're in no position to compare prices or services, so cost is determined by the maximum amount that can be squeezed out of you during your remaining lifetime.
To spell out the point here - healthcare isn't the point of the healthcare industry under capitalism - profit is. Any healthcare delivered is going to be the bare minimum required to separate you from your money.
I've worked in hospital systems since I graduated from college. There has been one meeting (out of all the meetings!) that I have absolutely never forgotten due to something that was brought up.
They thought it was super cool to talk about how much cash our new surgical center was bringing in. I know it was small in the scheme of things, but in my head a hospital should be super happy when they don't have to perform surgery on a person. They shouldn't be happy to perform surgery so that they can make money.
For me it was a quarterly town hall with hospital leadership and they kept pushing “we are a business…” and all I could think was “no, we are a hospital…” because being a business is indicative of being profit motivated. I know, I know, that’s exactly what it is, but it just really bothered me to hear that line over and over.
When you have an actual functioning competitive market the money you bring in correlates with the value of the service you provide, so it makes perfect sense to be happy about the money the new surgical center is bringing in. That means it's useful.
The problem is that the health care market is regulated and subsidized in so many ways, many of them conflicting with each other, that competition is very limited and price discovery is reduced to "whatever the patient (and their insurance) can afford to pay" since they can't go anywhere else. Fix that and there won't be any reason for hospital owners or employees to feel guilty about making money.
Most healthcare systems in the US are non-profits. To run a non-profit, you still need revenue to operate no matter where you are or what you do. They have to pay their own bills just like anyone else.
Bring on the downvotes. Then go ahead and take all of your local hospital’s funding and see what happens.
Edit: maybe people misunderstood my point? People are replying and saying that profit shouldn’t be part of healthcare. Yes, but that doesn’t solve the problem of funding. Every hospital gets money. Pick your favorite country, the hospital still gets money.
Non-profits need revenue, true. But many non-profit hospitals are not acting like nonprofits. Here's a NYT opinion piece about it
Here’s an actual study on the issue.
You’re largely right about nonprofits not contributing enough, but that’s a systemic issue that reflects the poor quality of the system and how it’s funded in the first place, such as the way we allow insurance companies to take huge chunks of our money.
Yeah that's not what it's about at all. Hospitals need funding. Hospitals do not need a profit motive. Remove the profit motive and socialize the costs of healthcare. Just like every civilized country does it.
You say I’m wrong and then you go on to reiterate my exact point about money. Hospitals require funding and they are funded in every developed nation. Nonprofits do not have a profit motive. They argue with your insurance company for more money, just like every other developed nation, regardless of whether it is directly single payer or a system like Germany or Japan, which largely rely on private companies.
you're arguing for profit to remain a focus within the healthcare industry. That's anti-people, and why everyone is downvoting you. Everyone knows a hospital requires funding, we just want our tax dollars to pay it.
You’re putting words in my mouth. I never said that. I said anything needs money to run, even a nationalized system or a single payer system.
I want to downvote you simply because i hate this truth. I hate it, so, so much.
One of the most perfect parts of how powerful lobbies constructed it is that, unaffordable as it is, there IS no free market for care, you are forced into networks and PPOs, etc. so if someone DID offer a better price outside of your consumer funnel(sorry, insurance plan), your insurer would just deny the claim at the providers standard 20x cost price for uninsured procedures. Also, 100% price obfuscation so comparison shopping is impossible. It is end-game capitalism.
That's not how capitalism is meant to work at all.
Its obviously and uncompetitive market and something needs to change.
History shows us that capitalism inevitably tends towards monopolies
Yeah, no shit. I have a full time job, supposedly great health insurance, but I still can't actually afford to go to the doctor (never mind an ER). You're God damn right the healthcare system is broken!
Here's the fun part.
It's been like this for at least 20+ years.
I remember when my dad lost his job around 2002. I was a little kid and my mom told me to be careful when I'm playing outside, because if I broke my arm we could lose our house. That's something I don't think should ever be a reality, or something that parents or children should worry about in a functioning country.
Yes, but longer. It's absurd. Not sure exactly when premiums really got out of control, though. There's probably a good chart out there.
Democrats tried to fix this almost... 15 years ago ("thanks Obama"). Critical failure: no Medicare option for all. Most civilized democracies implemented right to free care 30+ years ago, should've been easy to follow. (Then higher education as well.) For-profit health insurance companies and their armies of lobbyists are evil and should be burned to the ground.
The worst part is Obamacare wasn't even good - it was a huge compromise with insurance companies... Before it was further compromised and sabotaged. It came out of the heritage foundation after all - everything they come up with is some way to cause mass suffering to make a few people a lot of money
On the pro column, they gave up preexisting condition rejections - definitely good - and increased child coverage to 25 - which is nice to have I guess. It also made it easier to get health care not coupled to your job. Which would be great, except insurance gives you so much less protection at this point that people aren't much better off than they were uninsured before
On the minus side, they came up with standards of care, which creates so much documentation it drove most of private practice out of business, forcing them to join healthcare systems. It's as much as 2-4x as much time doing paperwork as seeing patients, and then the doctor has to negotiate with the insurance company back and forth on a case by case basis.
And healthcare systems are basically regional monopolies, which is why costs ballooned so ridiculously. It was always bad in this country, but nowhere near this bad.
They also overwork doctors, which is probably a big part of why outcomes are getting worse - they're running healthcare as a business. People who have zero healthcare training are min-maxing health system policies to make line go up
Not to mention, the one big win was supposed to be a public option on the healthcare marketplaces - the idea is you get something like a government run, at-cost insurance company. That was going to be the base line - private competition with "government inefficiency"
It's all just such a shit show - the solution is so simple too. Insurance does three things - it collects a little money from a lot of people to cover big costs from the minority who suddenly needs a lot of it. It uses economies of scale/collective bargaining to keep costs down on the provider side. And it has to have enough bureaucracy/oversight to keep embezzlement/fraud/kickbacks at sustainable levels (you don't even have to stop it, you could just keep good records and watch for large scale offenders, and come down on them hard)
All of those things are better done without a profit incentive, and they work better the more people are in this kind of union... It's mind boggling that people don't understand how straightforward it is.
Hell, know what happens when a homeless man comes into the ER and racks up a 6 figure bill because they couldn't afford treatment until they're at deaths door? The hospital doesn't just eat the cost, we all pay for it collectively anyways
Because i think you're the thinking sort, I suggest you Google 'how Democrats sabotaged Obamacare' or similar, select a source or sources you trust and see what you take away from your reading.
Edit: look... I don't give a single shit about downvotes, what i want is for you to see... Just do it. Don't be afraid. Do it, and see for yourself
In my view it was similar to the recent Manchin / Sinema travesty. Zero Republican votes, plus some very cowardly or corrupt "centrist Democrats" that neuter or kill bill. A classic recipe for disappointment.
You are right. It was eerily similar. There was even a single scapegoat! His name was Ben Nelson, and he was a former insurance executive.
He joined politics for a few years, vsinglehandedly destroyed the public option, and then quit public service.
Makes you think, huh?
Fuck Joe Lieberman
Am aware, this is why I avoid seeking medical care.
all insurance is a scam but any insurance that doesn't cover you for the only thing it's selling is also fraud.
Insurance companies get away with fraud all the time.
Our (Australian) right wing government stopped increasing the amount they pay doctors when people visit, and the new left wing government isn't doing anything either.
So now I have to "co-pay" $30 whenever I visit, when it used to be free. I found that so outrageous that next time, I'm travelling half an hour to go to a clinic that still "bulk bills" (read: doesn't charge the patient).
If I was an American I think I'd just die of rage. I wonder how much that'd cost me.
Edit: Oops, turns out our new left wing government just recently INCREASED the GP payment rate, so hopefully we'll see more bulk billing places return.
I hope the number of bulk billing places starts to increase again. I get scared thinking about how we're becoming more and more like the US.
Fucking tired of people who suddenly see a problem when a) it happens to them or b) when they're no longer relying on the problem for their income.
"If I'm in this situation with my knowledge and with my financial resources and with my bully pulpit, then the average Joe doesn't stand a chance. The system is just broken," Adams said.
To be fair to him, it seems to be a common thread with many in the medical profession, probably because they dedicate themselves to a system that is fundamentally broken. Even the likes of Doctor Mike (Medical YouTuber, whose content I really enjoy) have painted things like universal healthcare in a way that highlights the problems without painting the full picture of why (systemic underfunding to push privatisation).
I don't want to excuse it, but it's a very common problem that few want to address in the field.
I think doctors know as much if not more than anyone how broken the system is and how it constantly fails people, disagreements more about what to do about it and fears about change.
And there's certainly some physicians organizing in support of single payer.
Physicians for a National Health Program
A lot of doctors are concerned about how much say or influence they would have in such a health system, but hey not like they have much as it is as everything has become giant conglomerates run by MBAs and private equity, so not much to lose. At least government is theoretically beholden to the people.
Doctor Mike lost any respect I had for him after his behaviour during the pandemic. He is a content creator far above being an actual medical professional.
How so?
I'm out of the loop.
From wiki:
Thank you
I mean.. that's kind of why we never stop ranting and raving... To force them to find new sources of compassion and to find empathy for the other which they weren't taught by their family of origin. I'm tired of dealing with half the country being raised like thoughtless sociopathic fucking savages and eating the poor and each other.
A couple years ago, I ended up in an ambulance due to what turned out to be a small urethra stone. At the hospital, I had an x-ray. When that didn't find the problem, they gave me a CT scan. Once they found the stone, they called in a urologist. I got a consultation, prescription, passed the stone later that day (it was tiny), and recovered very quickly. My total bill was 243'000 Korean won - just about $200 USD. I only had the mandatory insurance that was paid for by my employer. Something to the tune of $50 a month that they are legally required to pay.
The US's system is completely fucked. Broken beyond repair. I wish them luck.
In the US your 243000 would still be the correct amount, but it would be USD.
that was the cost of just my ambulance ride
In other countries, the ambulance is free. They're just sitting there waiting around unless you use them, like firefighters. It makes no sense why it costs so much.
Do you ever have to decide if you want to call the fire department? No, it's "see smoke, call fire department".
Probably not for what OP described, but that's pretty close to the amount they billed my insurance when I broke two bones in my arm.
US Medical Costs aren't racked up by the complexity of the work or care being given, its by how many people are scheduled to see you, diagnose or provide care. Each of them has a set rate per appointment, so the 200,000 figure for a kidney stone that was confirmed by multiple different specialists is not far off. A broken arm at the ER is basically the trauma nurses, an emergency medical specialist, a surgeon or two, anesthesiologist and their respective teams. The more departments you get passed around to the more your bill goes up.
and 90% for upper administration and billing dept.
"Working as intended."
-Republicans
I think you mean
It's the rich running this country. The political system is there to make the masses feel represented.
I think you mean
plenty of working class people could be considered rich and a medical bill would still upend their lives.
On February 14 I met my max out of pocket for the year. I had an upper and lower GI taken which is the bulk of the cost. My insurance is already refusing to cover some of my diabetes medication, because some people use it to lose weight (Mounjaro). I need it to keep my A1C levels under 10. I already weigh the ideal weight for my height. Because it's so expensive and insurance doesn't cover it, I will end up going without for the rest of the year. My old insurance covered it, but my company switched insurance in January. New insurance has never equaled better insurance. I'm so tired of insurance being tied to my job.
I just want to make sure one of the options you tried was a different medicine. Doctors can be pretty good about playing the insurance game sometimes
I love how it’s some bureaucrats job to decide what medication is best for his needs. Not OP, who had been having desired results prior to his employer switching insurance, and not his PCP, who is more closely tied to his outcomes than anyone else.
We have tried other medication, which is how we found that this one actually worked.
I had to ask. I’ve had doctors figure out how to best insurance
I paid 1200 USD a month for a family of 3 for my health insurance to have the privilege of paying more a hospital bill.
I had to go to the ER because I slit my pinky on some glass and waited in the ER for 5 hours. They had to rip then dried blood and paper towel that was stuck on my finger because it took so long.
After all that, I had to pay 3000usd of my own money which didn't cover my minimum. Why DA FUCK DO I EVEN NEED INSURANCE!?!?!?
The fucking nurse on staff that came to help me for a few minutes was not within my network. Ya fuck that hospital too.
For small wounds like that I generally recommend an urgent care clinic over the ER. Way cheaper and they can handle that shit. Save the ER for proper trauma.
Sure. If the urgent care is open.
God forbid you slice your hand open outside of regular business hours.
I used to get some random unexplained swelling in one leg. My wife has a family history of blood clots. I don’t , but that doesn’t keep her from panicking, or from inciting my own panic. Only way to know for sure that it’s not a clot, as far as anyone told me, is imaging…sonograms specifically.
I don’t think any urgent care around me has sonograms. It’s ER, or get PCP to refer out and have an appointment in 3 weeks.
If you Google “Ultrasound Machine” and look at the shopping listings, you’ll find more than a few entire fucking machines that cost less than half of just one of those visits. And what did I have for that time? A few hours of waiting, interspersed with 5 minutes with an ultrasound tech, and 20 seconds with a doctor telling me (in the hallway) that nothing was wrong.
Yes, this was general advice. If there’s no urgent care open and you need to see someone more immediately, go to the ER. For a cut that needs stitches, you can probably wait for the urgent care to open.
just learn to do it yourself, save even more!
Better yet, ignore it and save on materials costs too!
It’s illegal for them to send you a bill because a provider isn’t your network. One of the few good things passed under Trump. Lmk if you need any specific help or information in disputing that bill.
Edit: assuming this ER visit happened on or after 1/1/2022. Or potentially earlier depending on your state.
It has been years. I actually decided to move out of the USA. Paid the bill and decided to be more careful.
My wife had to go to the ER and we went to a hospital that was in network. The hospital is indeed in network but the fucking ER is a separate entity and was not. I guess we should have been better informed consumers. /s
ER was in-network. The nurse and doctor was also in-network. The second nurse, who connected me to the ECG, and the person who read the ECG was not in-network. No way of knowing at the time. Balance billing was permitted in that state at that time, which out-of-network provider used to the full extent.
I’m still salty about that.
That part is messed up. You shouldn't be dealing with individual contractors as a patient. All billing should go through the hospital, and be considered in-network provided the hospital is in-network, regardless of what kind of specialist sees you there. Any exception, such as bringing in someone who doesn't normally work there to treat a rare condition, should require separate and specific authorization from the patient in advance.
Ridiculous isn’t it? I had my annual physical a few weeks back, which for me is filling an online form and having my blood pressure read and a few blood tests. $550, insurance pays for everything.
Well. Almost. Turns out 2 of my blood tests were not covered by some healthcare bill passed in 2007. $267. And the mole I asked to be checked, billing code wasn’t covered as standard checkup, and so that question was $240. Mole was benign, and surprisingly didn’t result in some convenience fee.
That is seriously fucked up.
For me, I called my insurance on the phone while bleeding profusely and wanted to make sure I went to the right hospital. I still got hit with out of network bills.
Do you have Urgent Care near you? They could have done some stitches.
It was Sunday and all Urgent care is not 24 hours in my area. I actually waited so long in the ER that one of the Urgent Cares opened, but at that point I was already inside and triaged. If I knew I would wait inside for another 2 hours, I would have left.
I'd probably just super glue the wound closed myself.
I uh...don't think that's sanitary.
A 1986 independent study suggests that cyanoacrylate can be safer and more functional for wound closure than traditional suturing.
Super glue spray was used in the Vietnam War to close wounds on the battlefield.
And it’s sometimes in first aid kits at places where slicing wounds can be common, like barbershops.
Still shouldn't use random superglue from the arts+crafts section, though. Sterility aside there's different types of cyanoacrylate. I don't think any are actually toxic but some are definitely less (as in zero) irritating to tissue.
Yeah but in the UK they have to wait 2 weeks to see a specialist
We have waits for specialists too. To get my vasectomy, I had to wait six weeks from my referral to my first consult, then another month from the consult to the actual surgery.
And then I got a bill from the surgical center, a bill from the urologist, and a bill from the anesthesiologist, despite only going to one office for the whole thing.
I'm in the UK. From my first enquiry to the operation was about the same...
... but I didn't get any bills after.
If I tried to go see my primary care doctor right now in the US, I'd probably have to wait at least 3 months for an appointment.
Where the fuck are you in the US that you do not have to wait for specialists? You living in Fantasy Land? Even a simple specialist like a dermatologist is a 2-3 month wait.
Yeah I know, it was a cruel joke. But if you talk to a con about this, you're sure to find this in their argument salad
He said UK. We only wish we only needed to wait 2 weeks for a specialist.
OECD data shows that wait times don’t significantly vary based on how a system is funded. The USA is just plain bad at wait times. That being said, the UK’s system is not the best example.
I just scheduled and appointment for my PCP. His next available is in June. Fucking 4 months for primary care.
I’ll take wait times in the UK with no bill over this bullshit any day.
Lol, we wish we could wait 2 weeks. My wife needed a tumor removed in her stomach and took 6 months.
Make Congress abide by the healthcare they make us abide by and this will be fixed overnight.
They live on a different planet. Our representatives are completely out of touch and there's no bringing them back. For the few good ones there are 99 career polticians out there carving out a niche for themselves and their families.
Who watches the watchmen? Well I've come up with a new branch named aptly:
The Duty Takers
99% agreed. I don't believe there are currently any "good ones". Everyone thinks "their guy" is going good and the rest suck and it's why we never have change in the guard.
Quite literally
If he thinks five grand is a big hospital bill, he's not living in the real world.
5 grand for something that can be fixed by quite literally buying salt and distilled water (obviously give or take a month, but that doesn't matter). Idk where you live but that shit is cheap where I am.
It's not that 5 grand is a big bill. It's that they're charging 5 grand for salt water.
Don't go to the ER for dehydration. If it's really that bad, find an IV lounge that can just give you an IV bag with some vitamins and maybe some meds.
It's like $150-$200, which I know is still expensive, but you don't need insurance and it's a quick in-and-out.
When that dehydrated, injecting liquids is way more effective than drinking them.
I highly doubt he just felt a little parched and decided to go to the ER. I also wouldn't suggest to others to diagnose themselves as dehydrated and go to an IV clinic (unless they perform medical check-ups from licensed physicians as well).
From his wiki he looks like a fit military figure who's probably not had the many health complications (is also still in his 40's). As a doctor himself and probably his colleagues around him (work trip), I imagine the recommendation is to get checked-up asap. It's also kind of ironic you're calling out the former Surgeon General and a licensed doctor while giving alternative medical advice lol.
It's not even alternative medical advice though. You go to the ER for dehydration and they're going to give you an IV of fluids and vitamins. I know because I've done it several times.
Whatever the Surgeon General's issue was, I'm sure he knew what was best for him and of course go to the ER if you're that bad.
But I've personally been in situations where an ER visit would have been warranted. I'm not talking just parched, it's when I've been frequently vomiting for 18 hours every 20 minutes and severely dehydrated because of my migraines. But instead of needing the ER, it took 10 minutes to get an IV at an IV lounge that took care of it for far cheaper and quicker. And then I'm not taking up a bed from someone who could use it more.
There's nothing wrong with getting IVs because the people administering them are trained nurses. It's not "alternative medicine" because it's literally what the ER gives you.
lol sorry, I didn't mean "alternative medicine". I was referring to alternative (noun 1. One of a number of possible choices or courses of action) medical advice. Though, I haven't looked into the claims the IV clinics make which might skew towards the "alternative medicine" side (ducked it, FTC has been going after a lot of them for false advertising). But, we're talking strictly dehydration so that's moot.
I am glad that the clinics worked out for you and sympathize as well coming from a family with a history of migraines. If you have a diagnosed medical history with a common side effect and you personally decide to go treatment first without further investigation that is your personal choice (again, I have no clue what the intake is like at one of these clinics i.e. blood pressure, heart rate, etc). You are self-diagnosing though regardless in this instance, same as anyone taking some otc medicine for pain (which can be fatal like a gallbladder or mundane like some bloating). This seems like a case of a sudden-onset of symptoms which he hadn't experienced before, which can happen as someone gets older. I took offense to your comment as the dehydration diagnosis didn't come till after his visit, so "knowing" beforehand is a gamble in this situation and one I wouldn't lightly pass onto others as good medical advice.
This is the worst advice anyone has ever given.
Are IV lounges something anyone can just walk in and do?
Yeah, it's actually kinda wild because the first time I went in, something about it felt illegal. But nope, they're perfectly fine and a great way to treat dehydration, hangovers, migraines, general pain, nausea, etc. Anyone can walk in and use them.
They've personally saved me several times when my migraines have gotten to their 10/10 point because the meds hit so much more effectively through IV than orally.
I've been considering starting a vitamin regiment and, after doing a little research based on the information you've given me, this seems perfect. How often do you go in?
I'm living in the real world, most I've ever had to pay was parking and I guess a few bucks for meds. I remember how $100 for meds a fe years ago made me cringe.
But I also live in a first world country, with first world problems.
Two years ago my dad had a cardiac arrest.
Resuscitation, ambulance ride, four stents, nearly a week in a coma in intensive care, another week recovering. No charge at all. Due to Covid and them not really want everyone putting their germy hospital hands on the ticket machines, even the parking was free.
All I paid was a few quid for a bottle of water and some biscuits from the hospital shop.
Now there are issues with the NHS, in that anything non-urgent can take a very long time and might not get resolved at all, and it being chronically understaffed to the point of negligence (which is intentional sabotage by our government) but for emergencies, it's amazing.
That sounds so... wonderful. The patient and family get to focus on health and feel like they belong to a society that values their wellbeing? 🤩
Well I wouldn't go that far. I do live in the UK after all.
But it's nice to not be bankrupt, so there's that.
Profit based healthcare is immoral.
Nonsense. Greed Is Good.
Capitalists are constantly telling me that if the Mayo Clinic wasn't charging $5000 for saline drips, the service simply wouldn't exist and he'd have died. This is what happens all the time in Communist Countries.
Besides, $5000 is a small price to pay for your life. If anything, he should have been charged extra. The hospital could have extorted him for five figures, easily, if they'd just twisted the screws a little tighter.
The real story is the surgeon had a problem with the hospital charging him so little. Only a broken system would miss that he could've paid well above $5000.
Praise be thy rules of acquisition.
Rule 10?
Fuck this joker. He’s the IDIOT that said, as the SURGEON GENERAL, “Seriously people - STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!” (Tweet was then deleted). He should lose his medical license and be imprisoned for the excessive number of deaths his lies caused.
When exactly did he say this? At the beginning of the pandemic when things were still uncertain?
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you if he said that at the beginning. To be clear, I know masks were an effective protection against the coronavirus. But at that time there was a lot of uncertainty, first, and second, he was half-right: there was a shortage of masks, and medical professionals needed them at a very critical time. I followed that advice. Then when the CDC said "oops, no actually DO wear masks!" I started wearing them.
So..... I'm not saying he was right. I'm just saying we should judge people in context. Don't pile him up with the true idiot anti-mask bundle.
They were lying in order to get as many masks as possible to healthcare staff. Perhaps they saved more lives doing so
That's technically true, but the correct answer is more nuanced then the average adult has the attention span to understand or the character limit of twitter.
Masks are better at stopping the wearer from spreading it to other people, but a lot of people were getting infected through spit going into their eyes. Did this post occur during the mask shortage were even surgeons couldn't get the masks they needed to do their work? The quote you gave said to stop buying masks, not to stop wearing them. Best practice was to use a reusable mask and face shield.
We've already had this discussion ad nauseum since 2020. It's 2024. Just stop with spreading information that can fuel the anti-mask bullshit.
I understand that wearing eye protection can reduce the risk of catching the virus. But to say "masks are not effective" being technically true is irresponsible.
People only accepting simple answers are why so many people died. I never said masks aren't effective. You reduced my comment until it lost it's original meaning.
Yeah, sorry, man. Freaking anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers had me on edge for so long, that it was practically an automatic response.
Only $5000? Dude got lucky. Fuck American healthcare.
Broken by design
Awesome. I'm going there at the end of March.
Oh shoot, you're the person who's been having trouble eating, aren't you. Man, I hope they're able to help you out. So sorry for your health issues.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
Oh, buddy, best of luck!
Thanks!
You're gonna get SLAMMED!!!! They're gonna bite your toes put your dick in a curling iron! You'll leave with a cured appetite and they'll FUCKING DUNK ON YOU with a $600 Billion bill! Don't forget to take advantage of their financial assistance; the whole medical system may be financially and morally ruined, but there are some ways to navigate semi-relatively unscathed.
I'm guessing we're going to get through our $10,000 deductible at least.
I genuinely hope it goes well. I excited await hearing about your progress.
Thanks. I sure hope so too because we have no idea where to go next.
There's a pretty good prison in Terre Haute
I'm fairly certain a federal prison is not going to help me with my medical issues...
When the system can't milk you for any more wealth, your next destination is a poor person death camp.
If "the system" can't milk me for any more wealth they won't need to put me in prison because I'll starve to death.
Hence me going to the Mayo Clinic.
Are you going to pick up other ingredients at the Bread Clinic and Cheese Clinic or are you just focusing on condiments first?
It's all in the Supermarket Clinic.
You're planning on visiting the ER?
No, but it's the same hospital.
If you're curious why I'm going there, I wrote about it in Casual Conversation- https://lemmy.world/post/12194311
Long story short: I haven't been able to eat any solid food for over six months and no one knows why.
(Please no medical advice, I am begging you. The general you, not you specifically.)
Have you tried chewing it?
I know you're joking, but I am literally unable to.
Nothing is more frustrating than people giving unsolicited medical advice. I've IBD and I mentioned on a post about people buying cheap frozen food why some people do it. I explained that I literally can't do prep, cook and watch the stuff cooking due to the symptoms when having a flare up. Wouldn't you know I got the typical reply that I should learn to cook (I know how) and eat healthily and seek medical advice (I've a specialist nurse I can contact at any time and it's difficult to eat anything when in constant pain and I feel nauseous after eating) so I feel you dude with not wanting to hear it at all no matter how well meaning some people are.
And they really are well-meaning, I know that, but it's so tiring to say "yes, we've been over that. It's not that. I don't fit those symptoms." or whatever over and over.
I hope you find a solution for your IBD that helps you, I'm sure that's really awful.
Oh but armchair doctoring is so fun (for everyone else). It’s like Guess Who: House M.D. edition.
Believe me, I've noticed.
The Mayo Clinic specializes in a lot of niche stuff which means people often have to fly from all over the country to visit this specific hospital in Minnesota
I know. I count myself lucky live less than an hour away from it. My grandma has actually gotten flown in on mayo one before for an emergency (speaking of expensive bills).
My original comment was a joke because the top post was talking about the surgeon general going to one of their emergency rooms and op was talking about planning to go there by which they meant mayo clinic but it could also be read as them meaning the ER.
Like mayonnaise?
Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
Is mayo a solid food?
Idk about you but I tend to avoid the chunky solid parts of the mayonnaise.
Surely you've seen the movie Airplane!
He got more done than he said. He likely went in for syncope (since he's a doctor and that's one of the few things that might scare them) and they did an ECG and possibly something else (particularly if he requested it). That said, 5k is still ridiculous.
Oh look at that. The sky is blue. Oh, and water is... wet! It's wet everyone! Oh, no, not water, it's piss being thrown at us by our government's lack of representation, ethical apathy, and greed.
I have a little experience with the medical billing system for this fantastic country that I'm lucky and unlucky enough not to live in (yes, both lucky and unlucky; different reasons).
It's messed up. There are band-aids in place to keep costs down for charges billed to medicare and medicaid, but that just makes the whole thing worse because it adds a lot of extra complexity and everyone else likely gets fleeced to make up for the new overhead. The medicare 8 minute rule itself isn't that complex, but add modifiers for activities performed by different providers (in therapy, this could be a PT and a PTA providing the same service, for different lengths of time, on the same visit)? It goes NUTS.
Single payer healthcare with optional private coverage would solve nearly everything. The cost to the patient first and foremost, but also the cost to the government itself, due to greatly decreased complexity. And private clinics and private insurance don't have to disappear, they can still provide more high-end services, or shorter wait times, for those who can ACTUALLY AFFORD IT.
Really, did you need to go to the ER to know that? Shit has been broken for a while now.
Lots of people think it's only the uninsured that get screwed, but it's common to get a surprise 5,000 bill a few weeks after you've paid your copay.
But here's the trick:
As of July 2022 the credit bureaus no longer report medical debt. So just don't pay the greedy fuckers.
This isn’t news, it just underscores how out-of-touch some demographics are to what most of us deal with.
"Here's a bottle of water, that'll be $5000. Have a nice day."
It was probably Pedialyte
Intravenous Pedialyte, I love it. Wish they added Red 8 and Blue 40 to IV bags to make them more fun and so that my kids begged to go and get IV drips.
Don't forget the carbonation for cool looking bubbles!
Did he even get the full bill. Last time I went to an ER, I paid off something and then two years later got sent another bill. I called and said, this is a mistake, right? First lady said probably, everyone else said nope. This is your physician's bill. The other one was a hospital bill. I asked, why did I then get it for the first time after a visit from TWO years ago?? What was goin on in the mean time? "Oh we were transitioning companies, probably something to do with that?" I tried to fight it, I got a reduced price, but that was so insane to me
I got hit with Lyme AFTER I lost my job last year. I got the bill for my ER visit, it sucked, but I was expecting it. To add insult to injury they sent me another bill, which was physician bill. The system is so fuvking stupid, it will kick you when you’re down. Next time I’m just flying to Europe somewhere to get a treatment.
Only $5000? He got lucky.
Yeah.. Because there's no place for downward pressure on health expenses. Hospitals are incentivized to raise prices as much as possible, because they know insurance companies will negotiate downwards. Insurance companies pass all costs back down to the pool while working as hard as possible to deny everything. Drug companies know they have a captive market, nobody else is making that medicine you need for survival so "Cha-Ching!". Employers are looking for the cheapest health plans possible which means the shittiest plans for their employees. And any company that sells medical equipment is looking at selling it for as much money as possible (or in a "package" that gets hospitals to overcharge on individually wrapped tylenol). Hospital Admins spend more time and money to make sure patients are charged $20 for a $0.10 pill than they trying to keep enough doctors and nurses on staff.
Medicare for all, that's the only way to start righting the ship here. Nationalizing the entire healthcare system would be the next step. It's beyond stupid that we run healthcare for profit.
So it’s actually more complicated than that (at least to your first point, the points about drug companies is accurate). First, I support M4A, especially plans like Bernie’s that improved reimbursement. One major issue is that the government (Medicaid in particular, Medicare also) pays below costs in some cases. So hospitals charge a shit ton to commercial insurance to make up for their loss on other patients.
In terms of employers saving money, most large employers have moved to self-insurance (70-80%, depending on how you define “large”).
In a single payer system, why would how much the payer pays for service matter, on a per service basis? The payer may as well just run the entire system. Essentially, an integrated delivery network (like Kaiser Permanente) on a national scale.
I don’t mean this in a condescending way, but that’s a great question. Lmk if my answer isn’t clear and I can elaborate more.
Single payer is not nationalized healthcare. Those are two different models with very different implications for funding.
Any business could buy up their downstream suppliers, just like the government could nationalize hospitals. But most governments (and most businesses) don’t do that.
In a single payer system, hospitals would get paid from one source, plus supplemental services that people buy out of pocket. What a hospital gets paid impacts what they can pay their employees. Ever heard someone say “why would they be an EMT for $15 an hour when they could make that flipping burgers?” It’s the same logic. Private companies lobby single payer govts so that they can attract employees, among other things they can do with money. More money makes running anything in a capitalist society easier.
If you’re nationalized, then the healthcare workers are government employees.
I read some senator or congress-person suggested before about doing medical tourism instead. Like you go visit Spain or Norway to get your knee or spine fixed for cheap.
This is the most Patrick Starr™ solutions I've ever heard for medical care.
Mexico has a large medical tourism industry. Mostly for dental but other things too.
You can go on a ferry and get a nice vacation in a fairly tropical area, and get your needs met medically and go home for less than it would cost in the states with insurance.
As a Canadian, the idea of paying thousands, even in Canadian dollars, for a single healthcare visit, seems absolutely insane to me.
I can't imagine living under that kind of threat. I would be deathly scared of getting injured, by no fault of my own, and ending up in the poor house as a result. Forget having any.... More voluntary.... medical costs, like having a child. I couldn't imagine doing that knowing what it would cost me.
Honestly, if I was in that situation, I'd be scared of doctors too. Having to choose between having good health but being unable to afford the basics, or living with disorder or disease, would probably break me.
Welcome to America....
And it's not hard to extrapolate the problems you start to face when the average person is afraid to go to the doctor
I recently got one single stitch in my hand. $2k after insurance paid their portion and I think I have pretty good insurance. I should have done it myself.
WELL DUH!?
Maybe it was the Nestlé hospital?
I wonder if he just noticed because it's been capitalist hellscape for a long time now. Welcome to the trenches, fellow working class member. Your ability to have basic healthcare is based entirely around your ability to scrape enough money together between hospital visits. Failure to do so will have lifelong impacts, so I suggest you start eating cereal for dinner to save some cash for the next time you need basic human help.
Feature not a bug
Why, yes.
Yeah but the market sets the price. This is capitalism. If you want to change the price, don't go there. Pick a cheaper clinic. There are plenty of hospitals. It's up to the consumer to price shop, emergency or not. I'm sure the Mayo clinic is making razor thin margins.
---- heavy sarcasm
Dude went the the mofo Mayo Clinic for dehydration. Gets a $5000 bill.
Surprised Pikachu face.
Well, everyone knows you're not supposed to go to the Mayo Clinic for dehydration. That's just common sense.
Of course a saline drip is going to cost you $5k at the Mayo Clinic. DUH!
He should have gone to the other clinic that doesn't charge as much. And the name of that clinic is...
Mexico
Not sure what the sarcasm is about, but the Mayo Clinic is one of the best hospitals in the world. It's not unreasonable for them to charge higher than average.
I'm not saying that makes the $5k bill reasonable, just giving more context to the comment you replied to.
You don't need a heart surgeon to provide a saline drip.
Do you have a choice of which hospital you go to when put into an ambulance?
(Never ridden in one, when I needed one I drove my self out of fear of the bill).
Generally speaking, the ambulance should take you to the nearest available ER. Some shady services may divert riders to affiliated hospitals.
I've heard more than a few instances of ambulances being redirected from hospitals entirely based on the prospective ability of the rider to pay.
So you've got even less control than you'd initially suspect.
You're right, a RN would probably be qualified. But what's your point? Their nurses are also paid more than average, not just the heart surgeons. If you need basic care go to a basic clinic.
(Not defending the $5k bill)
Then what are you defending? An IV takes a few minutes to insert. If the RN is earning $200/hr and the bag costs 10x the going rate of around $11, you're still talking about a 16x markup.
I'm defending the idea that one of the best hospitals in the world would charge more than an ordinary clinic. All healthcare in this country is overpriced, but I don't see anything wrong with incentivising people to offer better services. The best doctors and nurses should get paid the most.
Would affordability not be factored into a hospital's quality? If a hospital puts even the most routine care at an inaccessible price point, I would consider that a black mark on their ability to deliver service.
Again, I don't see any relationship between the price-tag of a saline drip and the quality of service. Not when the price is that astronomical.
If you put in an order for a hamburger, the meal shows up, and then waiter hands you a check for $500, the advertised assertion that this is "The Best Burger!" does not transform a quarter pound of grilled ground beef into its weight in gold.
There is no reason to believe a saline drip at Mayo Clinic is going to be meaningfully different from any bog standard city hospital.
All the price tag accomplishes is to screen people in need of care from the facility based on their income.
The only part of my post you didn't quote was the part where I said I think all healthcare in this country is overpriced. I agree with what you said here, and I'm not sure why your post seems so hostile.
Hospitals have finite resources. The most skilled and ambitious health care professionals should be using their talents to help people with the most challenging illnesses, not spending their time on routine (but still life-saving) treatments.
That's cool. So why defend an obvious case of overpriced health care by insisting the clinic is exceptional? An exceptional clinic would - presumably - be exceptionally accessible. Throughput is as much a function of quality as individual results.
That's fine. Dehydrated people require a finite medical intervention.
Are not required to administer a saline drip.
Please point out where you think I was defending overpriced health care, so I can clear up this misunderstanding once and for all.
You're using an arbitrary metric (best doctor) to assign a discrete value (most pay). That's inevitably going to result in every doctor with a high opinion of oneself to charge a higher rate than their peers.
The end result is overpriced care.
That amount isn't much more than our shitty local emergency rooms charge for walking in the door.
Never been to the US before I guess 🤷♂️ He got off pretty light at 5k.
You'll be surprised in two years when you find out you owe that.
Is that his out of pocket expense of what the hospital billed insurance?
Because my hospital billed insurance $15,000 and all I got was 1 bag of saline.
He must know some important people to get such a discount.
Can't the surgeon general just perform surgery on himself to save the money?
No way!
Why didn't he just go to one of them spa and get a $150 iv drip
You mean those mobile IV vans? Those are only in major cities and when you're suffering dehydration from like a stomach virus you don't have time to schedule an appointment if you're dying.
Treatment for dehydration should absolutely be added to free essential care under Obamacare, at a minimum.
In my area it's not a van but a brand with a bunch of locations all over they do like freeze therapy and all sorts of iv drips. Definitely further away than the nearest hospital but we also shouldn't need to go to a hospital for things like this that can be handled at walk in clinics if insurance companies would start offering better pay to those types of business.
This is only news to people who read Business Insider
Or...you know, maybe drink a full Pedialyte
Welcome to the revolution friend.
My GP claims to be trying to agitate her peers at conferences, focusing on the ones with chronic issues. She tells them, if they don't advocate for patients, no-one will.
Lawyers don't count, because by the time they enter the scene, the damage is done.
Sounds like you're not in the U.S.