My uber driver said that global warming is actually true but have literally nothing about human influence.
Some years ago these persons were saying that global warming was a hoax, now that only the human influence is a hoax.
I always hated that argument from people.
Even if they're right — which we all know they are not — it wouldn't matter. Climate change is going to devastate human life if we do nothing. If, somehow, the source of the warming wasn't human-caused, we'd still need to find a way to counteract it. It's not our fault doesn't prevent it from being our problem.
"it has nothing to do with human influence"
"Ok, then let's prepare for the inevitable, strengthen infrastructure, prepare for mass migrations, improve our crops to sustain bigger variances in weather, evacuate people from flood danger zones, ensure our supply chain doesn't collapse, fund poor countries so they can survive better, etc. You know, prepare for the crisis"
It's not happening.
It's happening but it's all cyclical.
It's not cyclical this time but it's not our fault.
It's our fault but global warming is good ackshually.
Global warming is bad but there's nothing we can do about it.
We could do something about it but it's too expensive/late.
Maybe it's not too expensive but THE CHINESE!
In stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
In stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.
There's a lot of money pushing this idea. I live in a certain US state where an organization has been paying to have billboards up that push this idea for years now.
The most terrible thing is that it's a half truth. While yes plants grow better with increased CO2, the downsides are so destructive it is not at all beneficial.
The sad thing is we're supposed to be in a ice age. The plant is further away from the sun about the same plane since the last ice age.
It's crazy how often I find this fitting: The Four Stage Strategy. At least it gives me a smile now and then.
If you're based in the UK, then all you can do is smile at the shit we have to deal with government-wise. If you don't laugh, you'll go mad, kinda thing.
That 'Four Stage Strategy' is horribly, horribly apt even today.
I've found a clever way to counter those folks is to say, "you might be right, and as the apex species it's our moral obligation to seize control and protect the natural order of things for as long as we are able to slow the coming of hell on earth. Just like our right to shoot guns. Yee haw."
What I hear some acquaintances say is like "who cares, I'll go to the beach, turn the AC on, what's the big deal" .
As if the floods we had in Italy this year, or the wild fires, or the storms, or the draughts, or the Alps without snow, the glaciers disappeared, the sea turned green, the invasion of jellyfish weren't connected.
Some people, most people, are just too fucking stupid.
Don't forget crops. You can't eat heat.
Ask them if they'll be at the beach when it's 55c out and all the crops have died.
But I have been recycling like they asked me too. Who's not doing their part? Oh wait ....
Recycling metals is good, especially aluminum. Recycling glass? Not bad. Recycling plastic? That is literally something the oil industry forced by having their resin codes look almost exactly like the recycling symbol. People understandingly confused the resin codes to mean it was recyclable and flooded recycling centers with plastic. So instead of throwing it in the garbage and telling people plastic is not recyclable, they did what they could to recycle it. Sorting and cleaning was a pain in the ass and made it not worth it...in the US. China was happy to accept it for a couple decades until a few years ago. Now most recycling centers only accept plastic with a reason code of 1 or 2. But people do not really check the number on the symbol. A lot of it is 5 which is not recyclable in the vast majority of places but people still toss that into recycling because they think it has the recycling symbol on it. So recycling centers have to sort that shit out and send it to the landfill. It is a massive waste of resources that the oil companies are fine with since people think they are doing their part.
Recycling in general though was not supposed to be a fix for climate change. While recycling things like aluminum is significantly more energy efficient than mining, the bigger issue there is the mine itself.
Recycling plastic is more so a lie fed by the plastic manufacturers.
Recycling does not have any impact on climate change and was never suggested to have any impact on climate change
I think that was the joke....
Ah if it is I missed it and I feel appropriately goofy
So why have I been wasting my time?!? Captain planet is an asshole
If we cure climate change tomorrow and do nothing about garbage/sustainability in packaging, we all still die - its just more disgusting.
Captain Planet focuses on the entirety of the environment, not just climate. That's why he whooshes bulldozers into the air in the Amazon.
Yeah, sad thing is we are already signed up for the next 20 years, as in even if we stopped emitting everything tomorrow, we would still have +2°C in 20 years...
And how realistic is stopping everything tomorow?
+3°C.. we would need to have a new coronavirus crisis every years, not just a new one, but stack them on top, in terms of emissions. Ofc you can't have more then one global confinement at a time (doesn't make sense to double confine someone) so that wouldn't even work.
We. Are. Fucked.
We aren't locked in for the next twenty years, only the next ten years.
We could build a thousand RBMK like nuclear reactors in a decade and then suck out 50 ppm of CO2 out of the atmosphere in another decade.
Would cost $500B to $1T or so.
We just don't really think global warming is serious enough to warrant an action plan at the scale of the Manhattan project, Apollo program or Messmer plan.
We're not locked in for the next 20 years. Not for the next 10.
The carbon in the atmosphere is going to be there for the next millenium and the temperature won't level out till the 2100s if we stopped all carbon emission right this second.
Furthermore, if we did stop all emissions right now, the planet would get 0.5-1.5 °C hotter within a year or two due to the end of the aerosol pollution cooling effect that's been cutting the effects of carbon induced climate change in half this whole time.
This year is so hot because they put limitations on sulfur emissions from shipping boats in the Pacific. Those emissions were cooling the atmosphere, but the aerosol emissions (which that sulfur is one of) only last in the atmosphere for about 2 weeks before they're rained out of the air.
Removing CO2 from the atmosphere is a speculative technology at the moment.
Like, yes, we "can" do it, if you ignore all the materials and energy needed to perform that process. And that's just in theory, in practice its bound to be far more difficult.
No matter how you put it, it's easier to just... Not release the pollution in the first place. If it's too difficult to stop polluting, it will certainly be too difficult to remove that pollution that has been already released. Entropy and all that.
Removing CO2 from the atmosphere is something we should only really start thinking about when the world already runs nearly entirely cleanly.
You ignore political realities.
An Apollo scale program to extract carbon emissions from the atmosphere could be financed by the OECD countries without heavily impacting their economies.
Building a thousand nuclear plants with reduced safety requirements in a remote place would not run into NIMBY problems.
Stopping emissions globally would require Chinese political will, since they emit more than all of the OECD combined.
I've started telling people to prepare for the Mad Max times. Yeah it's hyperbole, but it actually makes them pause for half a second.
What's disturbing is the gleam in some alt-right people's eyes.
I think that there need to be a specific tipping point/trigger when everyone and their mother direct funding towards fixing the problem.until then the majority of people won't simply care
I'm genuinely curious at this point if that point even exists. Like, I've had legitimate conversations with multiple people and i've asked them "what would need to happen for you to believe in human's causing climate change?" The answer is generally something along the lines of "I'm not sure it's even possible for humans to have that big of an effect on the earth."
I would imagine there are tons of people out there who think the same, people with VERY deep pockets and in equally powerful positions that would never change course on their money making machines. Literally the only way I see substantial change happening is if it becomes incredibly profitable.
The tipping point was going to be "our cheap labor is dying out and profits are going down"... except now with automation it's going to be "our robots are breaking down and we need a few more experts to fix them", so no need to care about 99% of the population.
The rich and powerful have to see very direct problems that affect them. Kind of like when social conservative politicians take an anti-LGBT position, then turns out their kid is trans, so then they pivot to being pro-LGBT in rhetoric so they can keep talking to their kid.
The phrasing made me think it was a Some More News reference and I’m pleasantly surprised to have something new to check out - thanks!
But they actually are... Down in Miami, wealthy people are fleeing the beachfront property and buying up housing where all the poor people live, which also happens to be further from the beach. There have been a number of documentaries and news segments on this trend which you can easily find on YouTube.
Eh, reality has a liberal bias.
Oh it doesn't matter. They're just repeating the same old tired debunked points from other bigots that also think climate change is a scam. Nothing will ever convince these types of people.
Jokes aside, this is very concerning. And sad. Humanity will never be able to pull on one string.
Considering here in Winnipeg, Canada, where it reaches -35C or even colder, it was pretty wild having weeks on end of +30C to even +39C temperatures, and so soon into our summer.
I never want to complain about the heat when we have snow for 7 months, but that was ridiculous.
Here in Montreal we have the hottest muggiest summers and the brutalest freezing cold winters. It makes me want to move to the maritimes.
I'd have to research if your weather is more extreme than ours or not.
I've yet to visit the Maritimes. It's on my wishlist.
The upper Midwest really has some of the worst weather in North America. Get schlonged by freezing temps and snow for 6 months followed by heat for another 6 months.
Hi Winnipeg. Come join us in !winnipeg@lemmy.ca -- it's in need of an infusion of complaints about the weather ;)
I genuinely don't understand, no disrespect intended but why do you remain there? Could you not just move south to a warmer climate? -39c just sounds uninhabitable.
It's not that bad. You just put on more clothes
Moving south to a warmer climate usually means either significantly warmer summers or a significantly higher cost of living. Or both.
Yeah it sucks dealing with extreme cold occasionally and long winters, but it’s a lot better than living in the south where it’s unbearably hot and humid for 8 months of the year. And any place with a temperate climate such as the Pacific coast is prohibitively expensive.
We had one snow storm in Connecticut last year and could skate on the ponds for only a couple of days. I'm surprised that our tick season wasn't as bad as it was.
My father in law is in complete denial. According to him they moved all the measurement equipment so that it favours "the Agenda" and gives wrong readings. He also claimes CO2 isnt a greenhouse gas. Sigh...
What makes people become that dumb?
fear of having lived your life entirely wrong and being too old to accept responsibility in changing it
Living in their own reality and being drip fed propaganda constantly
FoxNews
Acknowledging the truth means accepting that we're fucked, that even if we weren't individually responsible (maybe) we are still going to have to deal with the ramifications... And that's scary. It's far more comforting for there to be a secret cabal controlling everything and that really life is gonna be ok and you don't have to change anything at all.
I've spent years working at a fossil-fuel-adjacent company, and I've noticed that even some intelligent people (consciously or unconsciously) avoid any information that that might make them think they may not being living a perfectly moral life, or information where the obvious solution goes against their "values" (pro-business, free market). They also grasp for any information that affirms their values and lifestyle, no matter how easily discredited the source.
It's kinda worrying that it always seems to result in Nazi-like conspiracy theories like "the Agenda," "Elites," "groomers," "cultural marxism," etc.
It’s not being dumb, it’s being that stubborn.
If they hadn’t “picked a side” already, they would be very easy to convince.
Pair this with the Atlantic Ocean temperatures this year and you can anticipate an enormous, global shortage of food.
How does a city if 1 Million, or more, feed itself when all surrounding regions can’t grow food?
We’re fucked, so fucked.
We have the technology for indoor skyscraper style farming.
but not the political will nor legal ability to force landlords to allow it to happen.
I mean, in the scenario described where we literally can’t grow food in the surrounding land, it’s hard to say what the political landscape or legal institutions even looks like at that point.
Once people start going hungry and killing rich people then suddenly the rich will wake up and realize they have to do something, hopefully by then it's not too late.
Mankind is roughly 9 meals between civilization and chaos.
This absolutely terrifies me, especially since so many people deny climate change. What is it going to be like in 5-10 years?
In the next 5-10 years, we may see mass migrations begin as a few locations become too hot to bear, and corrupt religious authorities seeking power will pin the more hostile climate on recent social changes rather than the actual immorality of corporate greed. This sets the stage for tensions over land and resources to escalate into wars and civil violence in later years.
There is no better time for action than now! Climate Changemakers is a low-commitment way to get involved, if you're in America.
Next year is going to be worse. And the year after that even more so. And it will continue like that for decades, probably centuries.
Even if I could tolerate dumbasses who don't think CO2 emissions (and destruction of multiple natural CO2 sinks) are the driver of all this, it's still infuriating that they don't seem even concerned that the world is getting hotter and more deadly and are focused on some nonsense topics that no one in their right mind would give that much of a shit about.
It's not just CO2, though. For example, SF6 is regulated under the Kyoto agreement and a much more potent greenhouse gas. SF6 is used extensively in high voltage electrical switchgear, simply to keep the size down by having busbars closer together. There's so much of it out there that the small fraction that leaks is very significant. SF6 takes ~20 years to get from the ground and up into the upper atmosphere. Its use has been and continues to grow exponentially across the globe.
Very interesting! Also methane, of course. Should have shorthanded to GHG.
I recall that 5-6 years ago, temperatures around 30 Celsius were outrageous, unprecedented and unbearable here in Central Europe. Now, we're seeing stuff like 40 degrees and we don't even whine about it anymore.
40 was stupidly high and rare and now it's still stupidly high but less rare and people very much still complain about it, 30 wasn't super rare my entire life and i still complain about anything over 25 lol.
Local weather doesn't mean much anyway, hottest 2 weeks on earth and where I live has been mostly pretty chill with 2 days that were actually hot (and those still only went to like 31). Pretty much the way i remember summer commonly being a while ago.
And just to be clear i am in no way trying to pretend climate change isn't real, it's real and we're all royally fucked, but 30° really isn't anything new and also saying "it was 40 degrees for a week" on its own doesn't really say more than "global warming can't be real it was -10 last week".
I agree with you in spirit, but that last sentence is pushing it.
I get the whole weather vs climate thing, but this heat is going past that. It's pretty difficult to not attribute this historically unprecedented heat wave directly to climate change.
I am primarily attributing it to that, especially since it's affecting large parts of europe and also just the fact that it's been a general trend. I just suck at phrasing sometimes.
My main point was really just that 30° in central europe has not been weird in the last 100 years.
What? We had way more than one 30°C day per Year in Germany, in the 90s. I remember these days quite fondly, because we've had a really great swimming bath.
I feel like we’re watching zombies slowly lurching towards us, but there’s people pretending it’s totally normal and nothing to worry about.
And meanwhile a sizeable portion of the people is yelling that the zombie apocalypse is actually a good thing.
we’re watching zombies slowly lurching towards us, but there’s people pretending it’s totally normal and nothing to worry about.
If 2020 Gave Us Zombies Instead Of A Pandemic. It was pretty depressing in realizing how easy we could solve crises, but we can't, since some politicians prefer talking points, and too many sheep happily follow. And measures against the pandemic were just a temporary inconvenience, while the climate crisis seems to be here to stay, growing stronger every day.
Sad but true. Politicians in general appear to be a spineless lot, appealing only to their corporate donors.
The most relevant part of the boiling frog experiment is the only frogs that stayed in the pot are the ones that had their brain removed prior to the experiment. This explains why climate denialists are all conservatives.
Wonder how much the Republican candidates will spend talking about catastrophic climate change? 😅
Just about as much time as the Democrat candidate spends actually doing anything about it.
US politicians will probably mandate that people can’t set their AC below 80 degrees before they dare stop subsidizing the oil industry.
Ocean surface temps are super high too.
Oops. Posted wrong pic at first.
This is super scary, more than the atmosphere. We know this was happening but this fast means accelerated extinctions and faster disruption of the world ecosystem.
It would've been so easy to fix it if we didn't live in a profit driven society.
This beautiful little comic has never stopped being relevant since the very day it was made. Ever more destructive pushes for profit, all for that beautiful shareholder value.
Its ok guys, come winter no one will be worrying about it again.
Once we see no snowfall where it should be, arctics not freezing as they usually do, we know we fucked up. Wait...we've been seeing these patterns last year didn't we?
Winter's been weird in Michigan the last few years. Really really bad snow, then all gone in two days. No snow piles in the parking lots that last all winter.
Hopefully this can accelerate some good anti-heat paint and solar shade projects.
Personally I just want more trees and for big mega parking lots to be ripped out
Yes plz. We need more carbon sinks. Less trees means less oxygen, which means more co2 and more of these crazy weather patterns. There are cooperations that only see profit and sadly a lot see it only in the short term. Were is my green city where the walls have vegetation on them. Eco friendly and probably insulates pretty well.
Just in time but not cheap because... Money!
I'm ready for companies to do their ad campaigns about how they are saving the earth with their new policies and products.
Fuck it, please just profit from saving the earth. I dont care if its just doing what we've been asking them to do for the past 30yrs.
Oh, they'll do the ad campaigns and raise the prices in the name of green-ness.
Don't expect them to actually contribute in any meaningful way though.
They know the game over screen is coming as much as we do, they're just going for the high score first.
Oh, they’ll do the ad campaigns and raise the prices in the name of green-ness.
A classic example of this is electric utilities charging more and saying "all our electricity comes from renewable sources!" while ignoring the fact that renewable energy is typically cheaper for them to buy on the market.
The nice thing is that this is going to become a more or less yearly thing. Wee.
More or even more.
I suppose on a global scale, probably. I live in Sweden, so way up north, climate has been royally fucked here for a while, mostly in the sense that it's just been wrong. Short cold winters. Spread out cold snaps. Weird heatwaves. Not 50C like some places, but back in 2018 I think we were pushing 40, which is just unheard of.
Thankfully we've not had something since but it's just a matter of time.
Why are these Temperatures only since 1979?
To make it easier to see the graph. I hope you're not implying anything else.
They obviously don't want us to know what really happened in '78!! The truth cannot be hidden any longer, open your eyes people! The cries of the carrots! The cries of the carrots!
I dont know, I remember my dad saying "what a scorcher" in 1978 (or so he told me later when I was both alive and could understand spoken language) so you never know, you never never know
the fact that the only places in the world that have people who even want to continue to live in denial are the US, UK and Australia cough Murdoch's* cough makes me want to go outside and lie in a pile of wet leaves
I'm aware you didnt ask, but I heard an interview with some asshole from Florida yesterday and he said "I'm against this whole globalist shit!" and I thought for a moment what an alien or even say god would make of someone saying "one species? humanity? NO- this one group here, this is us and they are them".. and it just became so clear to me, once again, that people who can't move beyond the idea of tribes are just simply less evolved than other people, and as little as natural evolution is still functioning, I'm hoping against hope that it still works a little, and the more intellectually developed will leave the less developed behind.
while I'm dreaming, I'd also like an infinite bank account thank you
Interesting stream of consciousness. I agree with the whole tribalism will kill us all concept. Especially when resources get more scare, people start migrating, people then start blaming migrants for the lack of resources, then nationalism grows and we get more tribal.
https://xkcd.com/1732/
Check out the xkcd graph if you want to see the data for global temperatures dating back through 1978, just in case you wanted to know the temp for what "a scorcher" meant. This graph goes up to 2016 with projections for the future, so even this graph isn't a complete pic. I am sure if you add to 2023 then line would move more to the right.
I'm suprised my gushing sarcasm didnt come through... my dad didn't say 78 was "a scorcher" at all, just riffing. probably should include the /s thing more often
We have them here in Canada too. Though we do get Murdoch shit by proxy from the US, I think a large factor is simply people's emotional attachment to the ICE.
I've seen it with all kinds of technology. People are experts in some obsolete technology and refuse to adapt to the new technology because it means their knowledge will be useless.
I think the tribalism thing you mention is more inherent self interest than actual stupidity. "If other people somewhere else are worse off, who cares as long as they are making your shoes and smartphones" type of deal.
Human's are pretty damn great at predicting issues and surmising evidence of the future and past based on current findings.
We don't call our current epoch the Anthropocene for no reason.
The original toot clarified that they were talking about direct measurements only (but evidence exists that this is the warmest period in the last 125,000 years).
This Wikipedia page honestly has some of the best climate change graphics I've seen anywhere. They're simple, fact-based, concise and paint a pretty obvious and telling picture.
I've essentially given up that our planet, or the human race is gonna survive another few generations. It literally all feels so empty and I have no desire to have kids who will ultimately have to live through the boiling temperatures. Either population collapse, or the planet dying off will result in society falling apart.
The last generation will be here soon
If this was 20 years ago, I’d have zero kids.
I can’t in good conscience bring a child into this world
I'd have no kids now- also 20 years ago- but still.
Looks like we've entered a completely new regime now.
You hear that Venus? We're coming for you!
fuck this, honestly
Meanwhile, in England, it’s been 18-20 degrees for the entirety of July so far
It’s been fantastic. Last year’s heat was so draining.
Mate, do you understand what a global average is?
Imagine if someone said, the average age of people on Lemmy is 22 and you were like huh I'm 12. Yeah, it's an average, it has a range
As I understand it it also coincides with the distance to the sun and the fact that the southern hemisphere is mostly water keeps temperatures there more steady.
I was wrong on the first part, in fact the sun is closer un the southern hemisphere's summer than in the northern, but the difference in distance is minuscule. So the only reason is the water distribution.
In the northern summer earth is further away from the sun, so this neglegible effect is not the reason, but rather is getting overpowered by the effect of water keeping the temperatures more steady over the year than land
The correct answer is neither the distance to the sun nor the distribution of the populagion, though the latter is related to the answer. It is because more land is on the northern hemisphere than on the southern hemisphere. This also holds when weigthed with the suns angle of incidence across the seasons.
Land changes temperature more quickly, so the oscillation over the year from it is larger than from water, dominating it here.
Instead of agreeing to nebulous things like “limit to 2 degrees”. International politics should have focused on specifics like “hey, at least don’t make any new coal plants”.
usualmente i sort comments by top, but for this one im sorting by hot
sorts by caliente
Entonces it also makes it top.
lol, i didn't notice the spanglish, i was typing in spanish just before that commnet, and this most often happens to me right after switching languages
haha i love it
I wonder how bad things will get before people will rise up.
Man, I'm so glad this global warming thing is leftist propaganda or I'd really be freaking out right now.
Luckily, we can choose to reject reality and believe whatever makes us feel better.
I feel best believing the biosphere is gonna force humanity to “find out” for the last century of fuckin around with a recklessly unplanned terraform.
Love how the collective of humanity needs to find out because the richest few fucked around.
You can always find these people and make them find out. They are actively committing genocide against the human race.
Thanks to denial, I'm immortal!
Inspector 5 gave me his blessing!
How could he bring me into this world knowing I would die?
My uber driver said that global warming is actually true but have literally nothing about human influence.
Some years ago these persons were saying that global warming was a hoax, now that only the human influence is a hoax.
I always hated that argument from people.
Even if they're right — which we all know they are not — it wouldn't matter. Climate change is going to devastate human life if we do nothing. If, somehow, the source of the warming wasn't human-caused, we'd still need to find a way to counteract it. It's not our fault doesn't prevent it from being our problem.
"it has nothing to do with human influence"
"Ok, then let's prepare for the inevitable, strengthen infrastructure, prepare for mass migrations, improve our crops to sustain bigger variances in weather, evacuate people from flood danger zones, ensure our supply chain doesn't collapse, fund poor countries so they can survive better, etc. You know, prepare for the crisis"
:|
>:(
Ahhh, yes. The conservative backpedalling.
It's not happening. It's happening but it's all cyclical. It's not cyclical this time but it's not our fault. It's our fault but global warming is good ackshually. Global warming is bad but there's nothing we can do about it. We could do something about it but it's too expensive/late. Maybe it's not too expensive but THE CHINESE!
In stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
In stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.
Had a argument with a person on YouTube, he thought that increased CO2 in the atmosphere would be beneficial. It would help plants grow better!
Also that humans was not behind it.
It's not a problem! And if it is, it's not our fault. And even if it is, it was completely necessary.
Basically all right wing policies.
There's a lot of money pushing this idea. I live in a certain US state where an organization has been paying to have billboards up that push this idea for years now.
The most terrible thing is that it's a half truth. While yes plants grow better with increased CO2, the downsides are so destructive it is not at all beneficial.
They might grow bigger, but I don't think they grow better. Veritasium did a video about the increase in CO2 having an effect on plants.
The sad thing is we're supposed to be in a ice age. The plant is further away from the sun about the same plane since the last ice age.
It's crazy how often I find this fitting: The Four Stage Strategy. At least it gives me a smile now and then.
If you're based in the UK, then all you can do is smile at the shit we have to deal with government-wise. If you don't laugh, you'll go mad, kinda thing.
That 'Four Stage Strategy' is horribly, horribly apt even today.
I've found a clever way to counter those folks is to say, "you might be right, and as the apex species it's our moral obligation to seize control and protect the natural order of things for as long as we are able to slow the coming of hell on earth. Just like our right to shoot guns. Yee haw."
What I hear some acquaintances say is like "who cares, I'll go to the beach, turn the AC on, what's the big deal" .
As if the floods we had in Italy this year, or the wild fires, or the storms, or the draughts, or the Alps without snow, the glaciers disappeared, the sea turned green, the invasion of jellyfish weren't connected.
Some people, most people, are just too fucking stupid.
Don't forget crops. You can't eat heat.
Ask them if they'll be at the beach when it's 55c out and all the crops have died.
If you don’t choose to believe in it, it can’t hurt you. That’s verified fact
Phew, that's a load off my mind.
I used to be subbed to /r/collapse. I see world news is covering that for me.
Me too but lately I feel like I don't miss it too much. It's all around us now. You either see it, or you're an asshole.
Yhe they do think of everything
Has been in earnest since about 2014 by my watch
Well, there's !fte@sopuli.xyz
But I have been recycling like they asked me too. Who's not doing their part? Oh wait ....
Recycling metals is good, especially aluminum. Recycling glass? Not bad. Recycling plastic? That is literally something the oil industry forced by having their resin codes look almost exactly like the recycling symbol. People understandingly confused the resin codes to mean it was recyclable and flooded recycling centers with plastic. So instead of throwing it in the garbage and telling people plastic is not recyclable, they did what they could to recycle it. Sorting and cleaning was a pain in the ass and made it not worth it...in the US. China was happy to accept it for a couple decades until a few years ago. Now most recycling centers only accept plastic with a reason code of 1 or 2. But people do not really check the number on the symbol. A lot of it is 5 which is not recyclable in the vast majority of places but people still toss that into recycling because they think it has the recycling symbol on it. So recycling centers have to sort that shit out and send it to the landfill. It is a massive waste of resources that the oil companies are fine with since people think they are doing their part.
Recycling in general though was not supposed to be a fix for climate change. While recycling things like aluminum is significantly more energy efficient than mining, the bigger issue there is the mine itself.
Recycling plastic is more so a lie fed by the plastic manufacturers.
Recycling does not have any impact on climate change and was never suggested to have any impact on climate change
I think that was the joke....
Ah if it is I missed it and I feel appropriately goofy
So why have I been wasting my time?!? Captain planet is an asshole
If we cure climate change tomorrow and do nothing about garbage/sustainability in packaging, we all still die - its just more disgusting.
Captain Planet focuses on the entirety of the environment, not just climate. That's why he whooshes bulldozers into the air in the Amazon.
I hate it here.
We are so fucked. And this is only the beginning.
Yeah, sad thing is we are already signed up for the next 20 years, as in even if we stopped emitting everything tomorrow, we would still have +2°C in 20 years...
And how realistic is stopping everything tomorow?
+3°C.. we would need to have a new coronavirus crisis every years, not just a new one, but stack them on top, in terms of emissions. Ofc you can't have more then one global confinement at a time (doesn't make sense to double confine someone) so that wouldn't even work.
We. Are. Fucked.
We aren't locked in for the next twenty years, only the next ten years.
We could build a thousand RBMK like nuclear reactors in a decade and then suck out 50 ppm of CO2 out of the atmosphere in another decade.
Would cost $500B to $1T or so.
We just don't really think global warming is serious enough to warrant an action plan at the scale of the Manhattan project, Apollo program or Messmer plan.
We're not locked in for the next 20 years. Not for the next 10.
The carbon in the atmosphere is going to be there for the next millenium and the temperature won't level out till the 2100s if we stopped all carbon emission right this second.
Furthermore, if we did stop all emissions right now, the planet would get 0.5-1.5 °C hotter within a year or two due to the end of the aerosol pollution cooling effect that's been cutting the effects of carbon induced climate change in half this whole time.
This year is so hot because they put limitations on sulfur emissions from shipping boats in the Pacific. Those emissions were cooling the atmosphere, but the aerosol emissions (which that sulfur is one of) only last in the atmosphere for about 2 weeks before they're rained out of the air.
We're fucked.
Removing CO2 from the atmosphere is a speculative technology at the moment.
Like, yes, we "can" do it, if you ignore all the materials and energy needed to perform that process. And that's just in theory, in practice its bound to be far more difficult.
No matter how you put it, it's easier to just... Not release the pollution in the first place. If it's too difficult to stop polluting, it will certainly be too difficult to remove that pollution that has been already released. Entropy and all that.
Removing CO2 from the atmosphere is something we should only really start thinking about when the world already runs nearly entirely cleanly.
You ignore political realities.
An Apollo scale program to extract carbon emissions from the atmosphere could be financed by the OECD countries without heavily impacting their economies.
Building a thousand nuclear plants with reduced safety requirements in a remote place would not run into NIMBY problems.
Stopping emissions globally would require Chinese political will, since they emit more than all of the OECD combined.
I've started telling people to prepare for the Mad Max times. Yeah it's hyperbole, but it actually makes them pause for half a second.
What's disturbing is the gleam in some alt-right people's eyes.
I think that there need to be a specific tipping point/trigger when everyone and their mother direct funding towards fixing the problem.until then the majority of people won't simply care
I'm genuinely curious at this point if that point even exists. Like, I've had legitimate conversations with multiple people and i've asked them "what would need to happen for you to believe in human's causing climate change?" The answer is generally something along the lines of "I'm not sure it's even possible for humans to have that big of an effect on the earth."
I would imagine there are tons of people out there who think the same, people with VERY deep pockets and in equally powerful positions that would never change course on their money making machines. Literally the only way I see substantial change happening is if it becomes incredibly profitable.
The tipping point was going to be "our cheap labor is dying out and profits are going down"... except now with automation it's going to be "our robots are breaking down and we need a few more experts to fix them", so no need to care about 99% of the population.
The rich and powerful have to see very direct problems that affect them. Kind of like when social conservative politicians take an anti-LGBT position, then turns out their kid is trans, so then they pivot to being pro-LGBT in rhetoric so they can keep talking to their kid.
Someone at work said “If climate change is real, then why don’t rich people sell their beach properties?”
And before you ask, yes they are a boomer.
“Sell their houses to who, Ben? Fucking Aquaman?”
(reference at 4m21s) (piped.video link)
Edit: fixed link
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?t=4m21s
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
This guys vid on vaccines blew my mind
The phrasing made me think it was a Some More News reference and I’m pleasantly surprised to have something new to check out - thanks!
But they actually are... Down in Miami, wealthy people are fleeing the beachfront property and buying up housing where all the poor people live, which also happens to be further from the beach. There have been a number of documentaries and news segments on this trend which you can easily find on YouTube.
Eh, reality has a liberal bias.
Oh it doesn't matter. They're just repeating the same old tired debunked points from other bigots that also think climate change is a scam. Nothing will ever convince these types of people.
Jokes aside, this is very concerning. And sad. Humanity will never be able to pull on one string.
Considering here in Winnipeg, Canada, where it reaches -35C or even colder, it was pretty wild having weeks on end of +30C to even +39C temperatures, and so soon into our summer.
I never want to complain about the heat when we have snow for 7 months, but that was ridiculous.
Here in Montreal we have the hottest muggiest summers and the brutalest freezing cold winters. It makes me want to move to the maritimes.
I'd have to research if your weather is more extreme than ours or not.
I've yet to visit the Maritimes. It's on my wishlist.
The upper Midwest really has some of the worst weather in North America. Get schlonged by freezing temps and snow for 6 months followed by heat for another 6 months.
Hi Winnipeg. Come join us in !winnipeg@lemmy.ca -- it's in need of an infusion of complaints about the weather ;)
I genuinely don't understand, no disrespect intended but why do you remain there? Could you not just move south to a warmer climate? -39c just sounds uninhabitable.
It's not that bad. You just put on more clothes
Moving south to a warmer climate usually means either significantly warmer summers or a significantly higher cost of living. Or both.
Yeah it sucks dealing with extreme cold occasionally and long winters, but it’s a lot better than living in the south where it’s unbearably hot and humid for 8 months of the year. And any place with a temperate climate such as the Pacific coast is prohibitively expensive.
We had one snow storm in Connecticut last year and could skate on the ponds for only a couple of days. I'm surprised that our tick season wasn't as bad as it was.
- Carlin
Pack your shit, folks. We're going away!
It's unlikely I will need shit where I'm going
Like many people, I too came here to say this!
Global warming having a giant effect now.
My father in law is in complete denial. According to him they moved all the measurement equipment so that it favours "the Agenda" and gives wrong readings. He also claimes CO2 isnt a greenhouse gas. Sigh...
What makes people become that dumb?
fear of having lived your life entirely wrong and being too old to accept responsibility in changing it
Living in their own reality and being drip fed propaganda constantly
FoxNews
Acknowledging the truth means accepting that we're fucked, that even if we weren't individually responsible (maybe) we are still going to have to deal with the ramifications... And that's scary. It's far more comforting for there to be a secret cabal controlling everything and that really life is gonna be ok and you don't have to change anything at all.
Propoganda baybeeee
Decades of it
I've spent years working at a fossil-fuel-adjacent company, and I've noticed that even some intelligent people (consciously or unconsciously) avoid any information that that might make them think they may not being living a perfectly moral life, or information where the obvious solution goes against their "values" (pro-business, free market). They also grasp for any information that affirms their values and lifestyle, no matter how easily discredited the source.
It's kinda worrying that it always seems to result in Nazi-like conspiracy theories like "the Agenda," "Elites," "groomers," "cultural marxism," etc.
It’s not being dumb, it’s being that stubborn.
If they hadn’t “picked a side” already, they would be very easy to convince.
Republicans
What like they moved the sensors closer to the sun?
the a.c. broke in my apartment wish me luck guys
You can put damp towels in the freezer and wear them around your neck. My AC broke in August once and I lived on the third floor.
THANK YOU!! that's such a good idea
f
As European where AC are not common: Close all windows and window shutters during the day. And don't use the oven.
Pair this with the Atlantic Ocean temperatures this year and you can anticipate an enormous, global shortage of food.
How does a city if 1 Million, or more, feed itself when all surrounding regions can’t grow food?
We’re fucked, so fucked.
We have the technology for indoor skyscraper style farming.
but not the political will nor legal ability to force landlords to allow it to happen.
I mean, in the scenario described where we literally can’t grow food in the surrounding land, it’s hard to say what the political landscape or legal institutions even looks like at that point.
Once people start going hungry and killing rich people then suddenly the rich will wake up and realize they have to do something, hopefully by then it's not too late.
Mankind is roughly 9 meals between civilization and chaos.
This absolutely terrifies me, especially since so many people deny climate change. What is it going to be like in 5-10 years?
In the next 5-10 years, we may see mass migrations begin as a few locations become too hot to bear, and corrupt religious authorities seeking power will pin the more hostile climate on recent social changes rather than the actual immorality of corporate greed. This sets the stage for tensions over land and resources to escalate into wars and civil violence in later years.
There is no better time for action than now! Climate Changemakers is a low-commitment way to get involved, if you're in America.
Next year is going to be worse. And the year after that even more so. And it will continue like that for decades, probably centuries.
Even if I could tolerate dumbasses who don't think CO2 emissions (and destruction of multiple natural CO2 sinks) are the driver of all this, it's still infuriating that they don't seem even concerned that the world is getting hotter and more deadly and are focused on some nonsense topics that no one in their right mind would give that much of a shit about.
It's not just CO2, though. For example, SF6 is regulated under the Kyoto agreement and a much more potent greenhouse gas. SF6 is used extensively in high voltage electrical switchgear, simply to keep the size down by having busbars closer together. There's so much of it out there that the small fraction that leaks is very significant. SF6 takes ~20 years to get from the ground and up into the upper atmosphere. Its use has been and continues to grow exponentially across the globe.
Very interesting! Also methane, of course. Should have shorthanded to GHG.
I recall that 5-6 years ago, temperatures around 30 Celsius were outrageous, unprecedented and unbearable here in Central Europe. Now, we're seeing stuff like 40 degrees and we don't even whine about it anymore.
40 was stupidly high and rare and now it's still stupidly high but less rare and people very much still complain about it, 30 wasn't super rare my entire life and i still complain about anything over 25 lol.
Local weather doesn't mean much anyway, hottest 2 weeks on earth and where I live has been mostly pretty chill with 2 days that were actually hot (and those still only went to like 31). Pretty much the way i remember summer commonly being a while ago.
And just to be clear i am in no way trying to pretend climate change isn't real, it's real and we're all royally fucked, but 30° really isn't anything new and also saying "it was 40 degrees for a week" on its own doesn't really say more than "global warming can't be real it was -10 last week".
I agree with you in spirit, but that last sentence is pushing it.
I get the whole weather vs climate thing, but this heat is going past that. It's pretty difficult to not attribute this historically unprecedented heat wave directly to climate change.
I am primarily attributing it to that, especially since it's affecting large parts of europe and also just the fact that it's been a general trend. I just suck at phrasing sometimes.
My main point was really just that 30° in central europe has not been weird in the last 100 years.
What? We had way more than one 30°C day per Year in Germany, in the 90s. I remember these days quite fondly, because we've had a really great swimming bath.
I feel like we’re watching zombies slowly lurching towards us, but there’s people pretending it’s totally normal and nothing to worry about.
And meanwhile a sizeable portion of the people is yelling that the zombie apocalypse is actually a good thing.
If 2020 Gave Us Zombies Instead Of A Pandemic. It was pretty depressing in realizing how easy we could solve crises, but we can't, since some politicians prefer talking points, and too many sheep happily follow. And measures against the pandemic were just a temporary inconvenience, while the climate crisis seems to be here to stay, growing stronger every day.
Sad but true. Politicians in general appear to be a spineless lot, appealing only to their corporate donors.
The most relevant part of the boiling frog experiment is the only frogs that stayed in the pot are the ones that had their brain removed prior to the experiment. This explains why climate denialists are all conservatives.
Wonder how much the Republican candidates will spend talking about catastrophic climate change? 😅
Just about as much time as the Democrat candidate spends actually doing anything about it.
US politicians will probably mandate that people can’t set their AC below 80 degrees before they dare stop subsidizing the oil industry.
Ocean surface temps are super high too.
Oops. Posted wrong pic at first.
This is super scary, more than the atmosphere. We know this was happening but this fast means accelerated extinctions and faster disruption of the world ecosystem.
It would've been so easy to fix it if we didn't live in a profit driven society.
Fuck capitalism..
Yeah, but have you seen the profits?
This beautiful little comic has never stopped being relevant since the very day it was made. Ever more destructive pushes for profit, all for that beautiful shareholder value.
Its ok guys, come winter no one will be worrying about it again.
Once we see no snowfall where it should be, arctics not freezing as they usually do, we know we fucked up. Wait...we've been seeing these patterns last year didn't we?
Winter's been weird in Michigan the last few years. Really really bad snow, then all gone in two days. No snow piles in the parking lots that last all winter.
Source toot: https://mas.to/@advisorybriefs/110735907070699446
Data source: https://climatereanalyzer.org/clim/t2_daily/
Thank you!
Cool. Great, even. Man, we're fucked.
Hopefully this can accelerate some good anti-heat paint and solar shade projects.
Personally I just want more trees and for big mega parking lots to be ripped out
Yes plz. We need more carbon sinks. Less trees means less oxygen, which means more co2 and more of these crazy weather patterns. There are cooperations that only see profit and sadly a lot see it only in the short term. Were is my green city where the walls have vegetation on them. Eco friendly and probably insulates pretty well.
Just in time but not cheap because... Money!
I'm ready for companies to do their ad campaigns about how they are saving the earth with their new policies and products.
Fuck it, please just profit from saving the earth. I dont care if its just doing what we've been asking them to do for the past 30yrs.
Oh, they'll do the ad campaigns and raise the prices in the name of green-ness.
Don't expect them to actually contribute in any meaningful way though.
They know the game over screen is coming as much as we do, they're just going for the high score first.
A classic example of this is electric utilities charging more and saying "all our electricity comes from renewable sources!" while ignoring the fact that renewable energy is typically cheaper for them to buy on the market.
We're fucked.
The nice thing is that this is going to become a more or less yearly thing. Wee.
More or even more.
I suppose on a global scale, probably. I live in Sweden, so way up north, climate has been royally fucked here for a while, mostly in the sense that it's just been wrong. Short cold winters. Spread out cold snaps. Weird heatwaves. Not 50C like some places, but back in 2018 I think we were pushing 40, which is just unheard of.
Thankfully we've not had something since but it's just a matter of time.
Why are these Temperatures only since 1979?
To make it easier to see the graph. I hope you're not implying anything else.
They obviously don't want us to know what really happened in '78!! The truth cannot be hidden any longer, open your eyes people! The cries of the carrots! The cries of the carrots!
I dont know, I remember my dad saying "what a scorcher" in 1978 (or so he told me later when I was both alive and could understand spoken language) so you never know, you never never know
the fact that the only places in the world that have people who even want to continue to live in denial are the US, UK and Australia cough Murdoch's* cough makes me want to go outside and lie in a pile of wet leaves
I'm aware you didnt ask, but I heard an interview with some asshole from Florida yesterday and he said "I'm against this whole globalist shit!" and I thought for a moment what an alien or even say god would make of someone saying "one species? humanity? NO- this one group here, this is us and they are them".. and it just became so clear to me, once again, that people who can't move beyond the idea of tribes are just simply less evolved than other people, and as little as natural evolution is still functioning, I'm hoping against hope that it still works a little, and the more intellectually developed will leave the less developed behind.
while I'm dreaming, I'd also like an infinite bank account thank you
Interesting stream of consciousness. I agree with the whole tribalism will kill us all concept. Especially when resources get more scare, people start migrating, people then start blaming migrants for the lack of resources, then nationalism grows and we get more tribal.
https://xkcd.com/1732/ Check out the xkcd graph if you want to see the data for global temperatures dating back through 1978, just in case you wanted to know the temp for what "a scorcher" meant. This graph goes up to 2016 with projections for the future, so even this graph isn't a complete pic. I am sure if you add to 2023 then line would move more to the right.
I'm suprised my gushing sarcasm didnt come through... my dad didn't say 78 was "a scorcher" at all, just riffing. probably should include the /s thing more often
We have them here in Canada too. Though we do get Murdoch shit by proxy from the US, I think a large factor is simply people's emotional attachment to the ICE.
I've seen it with all kinds of technology. People are experts in some obsolete technology and refuse to adapt to the new technology because it means their knowledge will be useless.
I think the tribalism thing you mention is more inherent self interest than actual stupidity. "If other people somewhere else are worse off, who cares as long as they are making your shoes and smartphones" type of deal.
to be fair records only go back like 200 years tho but it is still telling about the direction
TBF you can also pretty know the temperature from thousands of years ago somehow accurately by analysing ice from the polar caps
Yes... that is how records work lol...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global\_temperature\_record
Yes, proxy measurements are a thing lol.
Human's are pretty damn great at predicting issues and surmising evidence of the future and past based on current findings.
We don't call our current epoch the Anthropocene for no reason.
The original toot clarified that they were talking about direct measurements only (but evidence exists that this is the warmest period in the last 125,000 years).
This Wikipedia page honestly has some of the best climate change graphics I've seen anywhere. They're simple, fact-based, concise and paint a pretty obvious and telling picture.
Geology disagrees
I've essentially given up that our planet, or the human race is gonna survive another few generations. It literally all feels so empty and I have no desire to have kids who will ultimately have to live through the boiling temperatures. Either population collapse, or the planet dying off will result in society falling apart.
The last generation will be here soon
If this was 20 years ago, I’d have zero kids.
I can’t in good conscience bring a child into this world
I'd have no kids now- also 20 years ago- but still.
Looks like we've entered a completely new regime now.
You hear that Venus? We're coming for you!
fuck this, honestly
Meanwhile, in England, it’s been 18-20 degrees for the entirety of July so far
It’s been fantastic. Last year’s heat was so draining.
Mate, do you understand what a global average is?
Imagine if someone said, the average age of people on Lemmy is 22 and you were like huh I'm 12. Yeah, it's an average, it has a range
I know, it's fucking lovely.
Worse part will be Christmas diner
Well okay, maybe that's not as bad as complete collapse and mass deaths and migrants drowning in the Mediterranean and malaria
But still, Christmas dinner is gonna suck more and more
Why does this follow north hemisphere's seasons?
As I understand it it also coincides with the distance to the sun andthe fact that the southern hemisphere is mostly water keeps temperatures there more steady.I was wrong on the first part, in fact the sun is closer un the southern hemisphere's summer than in the northern, but the difference in distance is minuscule. So the only reason is the water distribution.
In the northern summer earth is further away from the sun, so this neglegible effect is not the reason, but rather is getting overpowered by the effect of water keeping the temperatures more steady over the year than land
The correct answer is neither the distance to the sun nor the distribution of the populagion, though the latter is related to the answer. It is because more land is on the northern hemisphere than on the southern hemisphere. This also holds when weigthed with the suns angle of incidence across the seasons.
Land changes temperature more quickly, so the oscillation over the year from it is larger than from water, dominating it here.
Cool, thanks!
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/1160441919/china-is-building-six-times-more-new-coal-plants-than-other-countries-report-fin
Instead of agreeing to nebulous things like “limit to 2 degrees”. International politics should have focused on specifics like “hey, at least don’t make any new coal plants”.
usualmente i sort comments by top, but for this one im sorting by hot
sorts by caliente
Entonces it also makes it top.
lol, i didn't notice the spanglish, i was typing in spanish just before that commnet, and this most often happens to me right after switching languages
haha i love it
I wonder how bad things will get before people will rise up.
N+1
The dead walk. Zombies have arrived. They are us.
Why don't you have children ?! We want grandchildren!
Here is why, also I will never own a home, so fuck that.
Nice
Nothing to see here. Move along and keep burning fossil fuels.
Weird. Where I live it's cold as hell.
Edit: The last 2 weeks, I see. Yeah that makes sense
So imagine how freaking hot it is in many, many other places for the global mean temperature to be at a record high.
Also it says last 2 weeks, and where I live those days were warmer than usual
checks username
Where you live being the Antarctic Peninsula? 🤔