Is there a more politically conservative part of the fediverse?locked
I'm a conservative. I don't mind the liberal stuff here. It's good to learn the other side, but I don't want a liberal echo chamber. I'd like to be more politically balanced in the fediverse. Is there any way I can do that?
Unfortunately most of the more “conservative” instances became highly toxic and so most other instances have defederated with them.
funny how every time conservatives group up, their communities become so toxic, full of hate and conspiracies, that people have no choice but to cut ties lol
Woah, woah, there.... Telling all the trannies and colored folks to die is their protected free speech rights. How dare you cancel them.
they'd thrive on 4chan. i recommend OP go there. that's a breeding ground for this ideology. they can enjoy all the loli, nazi, and "n***er" rekt gore threads they desire
I have to ask, what do lolis have to do with the rest? I can't say I'm a fan but I feel like I've missed a memo.
4chan has a shiiiit ton of loli threads, sometimes containing real cp unfortunately, and some ai generated realistic cp. and, 4chan is a cesspool of alt right cunts. they are the ones proudly producing the threads
Just on /b/ for that.
/pol/ is the serious fascist breeding ground. I step in occasionally just to see what talking point these guys are going to be drumming in the mainstream in 3 to 6 months. It bleeds over everywhere else on 4chan so there's a high overlap, but people on /b/ are surprisingly varied (if universally idiots, but I guess that's kind of the point).
both are disgusting cesspits. i see no variation on /b/. its all loli, rekt, nazi threads, andy biersack, and porn
It's because their political leader at the moment is a populist. They can't help but be a bunch of cunts. Monkey see money do kind of thing.
Here’s an unpopular opinion. I saw a lot of the same elements in the Bernie crowd. Not for taking peoples rights or anything illegal like that mind you, but they were very quick to want to ignore the rules during the primary to throw out the choice of the Democratic majority in order to have Bernie win over Hillary. To this day I still hear conspiracy theory talking points about how Bernie really won, or how he was winning the real polls, etc. it’s the same populist rhetoric and it’s dangerous.
Yeah, but how often did Bernie himself repeat those conspiracy theories? Did he ever try to violently overturn the Democratic primary results? Every popular person has some shitty supporters, so you can't just judge people based on their supporters.
Bernie never said anything to my knowledge, which is why I said the Bernie Crowd. It was limited to a chunk of his fan base that discussed ignoring primary results and awarding delegates to Bernie. Violent or Non-Violent wasn't the point. The rules were set before the primary, and Bernie lost. Any attempt at discussion of anything regarding overturning that result is overturning democracy. That was scary to read. You don't think that would ever turn into a coup attempt, but It's enough to have made me uncomfortable.
I only blame Bernie as much as his populist rhetoric misleads people. Nothing actually happened, and I don't believe he would have stood for it if it did.
Yeah, but how often did Bernie himself repeat those conspiracy theories? Did he ever try to violently overturn the Democratic primary results? Every popular person has some shitty supporters, so you can't just judge people based on their supporters.
Have you seen all the comments on this thread?
Instead of answering the OPs question, 100+ people are just bashing him for thinking differently, saying stuff like "Well, why are you conservative in the first place? Conservatism is so stupid! People on the right are evil, monsters, etc."
This left wing echo chamber is already very hateful and against any differing opinions.
It's not "thinking differently" it's "the beliefs necessary to maintain that political stance are stupid and cruel".
Not every conservative is a racist nazi. Some of us just want the government to stick to doing what's in the constitution.
So then how can you possibly agree with the right? Is banning books in the Constitution?
Westerners, especially Americans, have a really really hard time believing that you can be socially one thing and governmentally/economically another. For instance Im radically socially leftist but economically libertarian.
Because Americans have been force fed the lie that you have to pick one size fits all, they assume that every conservative is also socially conservative. Which, in the case of America, means you support the wild anti lgbt/anti abortion legislation.
I agree. The way I worded my comment was very intentional to not bash conservatism. I don’t consider myself one but I thought OP’s question was pretty respectful and I do find it unfortunate that he doesn’t have a community on here that isn’t extremely radicalized.
Yeah, it's a shame that people can't be more civil and respectful to each other.
Instantly became toxic? I’m shocked, shocked I say!
Unsurprisingly
I think they would be more moderate if more moderate people would have opportunity to participate. Right now all of the non left instances or communities get too quickly defederated and deleted, so moderate people who would normally participate dont want to create na account on a completely defederated instance. The only thing you are left of there are some crazies.
The only way I heard of conservative communities here is from a post that is asking for defederation or deletion
Well, the conservatives in those communities could try being less horrible pieces of shit and not bring hate to minority spaces, but that's probably too much to ask
Remember when being conservative meant you wanted lower tax?
Now it's a competition to see who's going to say the most toxic stuff and who can become the biggest piece of trash a human being can be
"I LOVE RUSSIA TRUMP IS MY GOD FUCK LGBTS ALL TRANS ARE PEDOPHILE SOROS BILL GATES WOKE WOKE WOKE WOKE WOKE WOKE WOKE WOKE FAUCI OBAMA BUT HER EMAILS BUT HIS LAPTOPS BUD LITE WOKE WOKE"
like holy shit, calm down a bit...
Conservatism has always been that
In America maybe, although I doubt that.
That was like 15 years ago as I remember it. Being a conservative was about being a fiscal responsibility, and there was an expectation that we were all moving in the same direction socially. Now it's all messed up.
It's been the same since the Nixon era, they're just more mask off about it now.
Give hate a chance!
conservative spaces shouldn't need moderates to balance out their toxicity and crazy when left on their own, they simply shouldn't be toxic and crazy. why do they need their hand held? it gets defederated quickly because THEY always quickly turn their spaces into pure hate, and they choose to spread that. that's on them, not us.
The ideology is built in hate so it's no surprise this happens to them
It’s funny. What is happening here is “hate” towards conservatives!
And no, conservatism is not built upon hate. There has to be a left, there has to be a right. And the absence of either would drive us to dictatorship (lack of left wing) or anarchy (lack of right wing)
Oh no, anarchy
... Uh so no dominance hierarchies, where no one rules over another? Yeah, don't threaten me with a good time
Community starts, insane conspiracy prevails, defederated/removed.
“moderate “ conservative is a myth
A person can share some values from both sides of political spectrum. Why is that concept so difficult for people to understand?
Its definetely not a myth
Provide an example of a moderate conservative view then.
Without dog whistles and nonsense like “small government” or whatever other labels conservatives like to pretend to have
I have beliefs from both sides. I just agree with the right a little more.
I’m genuinely curious, which conservative values do you like?
I'm socially pretty left but a voluntarist and it feels pretty hostile. Even socially moderate or liberal cons will feel pretty bad. I'm just used to chillin' in left spaces so it's whatever.
I get what you’re saying. There’s a mindset in the fediverse that everyone on an instance is responsible for it. Even if the bad actors join later. The instance gets defederated but as a user it can be really hard to know if your instance is defederated.
It’s a deeply unpopular opinion and anyone who suggests that federation is simultaneously a huge advance and a big problem seems to get downvoted.
You’re right, ultimately instead of being exposed to a range of views some of which are challenging we’ll end up in little echo chambers.
We need more moderation and less defederation.
There's a difference between being exposed to a range of views and being exposed to hatred.
And that’s were moderation (the act of moderation) comes in as a first step rather than instant defederation.
r/conservative mods handed out bans for anyone even asking a legit question. Conservative arguments aren't fact based, so any good faith argument is seen as an attack and the only defense is to reject it outright. I don't know how good moderation can be applied to that.
I’m fine being in an echo chamber that Trans people deserve human rights. That’s a hill I’m willing to die on. If you disagree, you can stay out of my bubble, I’m not negotiating this point.
This. If they identify as humans, they deserve human rights
I haven’t mentioned anything about Trans people at all ? There’s nothing to negotiate and I don’t disagree that trans people have a right to be treated with respect and have their rights respected.
It's the hot topic of the moment for conservatives, particularly the ones that are getting banned from public sites. Other than that, it's all culture war shit like abortion, immigration, border walls, etc that all go into xenophobia, misogamy, racism, antisemitism etc. I haven't seen any real conservative ideas in a decade. Now it's all a grift. You either have a old idea of what conservative is or just aren't saying it out loud. Even when Republicans cut taxes, they cut them massively for the rich and give the middle class and poor pennies. Any time someone wants to put more money in lower classes pockets they fabricate some bullshit to block it (Student Loan Forgiveness, Stimulus Checks) all a while giving Businesses Billions and removing oversight (PPP Loans).
The challenge will be finding an actual traditional conservative instance that isn't also a pro-Nazi fascist shithole.
I imagine traditional conservatives often get gate checked as leftist.
Been called a Nazi plenty of times on Reddit and now here. God forbid you believe capitalism with a touch of regulation when needed works 🤷♂️.
Not to get too sidetracked but part of what isn't working about capitalism is what is coming down the pipe with climate change. Capitalism does work, but market socialism looks like an upgrade to me. People over profits.
That's fine. I'm just saying it doesn't make me racist Nazi to have a more right position.
Maybe not, but the consequences of your beliefs impact people negatively and you should accept the resulting disapproval.
No, but you are still voting to support all those other things when you vote republican
No it doesn't. You'd have to support nazi ideas to be a nazi, but how distant that connection can be applied I'm not sure. The left and right are calling each other nazis lately so I guess it can reach a long way.
I haven't voted GOP in years
DOUBT
You’ve said other things to get people to call you that.
Well if any left winger were to argue that merely believing capitalism with a touch of regulation works is all that makes you a Nazi, I’d be inclined to disagree with them even as a liberal progressive.
For me it’s believing that what you read, what you are taught, who you love/marry, how you practice art, what happens between you and a doctor, and where you were born that needs to be policed, controlled, and punished is what makes a Nazi. I honestly don’t think a genuine American conservative would care about any of that.
I think you are referring to democratic socialism.
Social Democracy*
Democratic Socialism is establishing Socialism using democratic means. Social Democracy is still a Capitalist society but with a social safety net and lots of regulations. The commenter you replied to still believes in Capitalism so what they want is a Social Democracy.
Yeah there's only as much sane conservative content as there are sane conservatives.
/r/conservative used to be moderately sane back before 2015. It's almost like the entire Republican lost their minds the year after that. I wonder why...
Would it be too late for them to rein it back now?
Seems like anyone trying would be immediately be booted for being a "liberal", and the only way is down.
Yes, here: exploding-heads.com
Enjoy learning about the secret illuminati jewish space laser and the deep state trying to establish a new world order!
holy shit, the jokes write themselves. it really is like 3 losers posting weird ass shit
here is a nice post on !fatehate to emphasize their wonderful community of rational conservatives
The f***? What the hell is that racist garbage?
Also a bunch of transphobic shit, because of course.
aaaand another, i could go on
and another
Reality has a well known liberal bias. Stop trying to hide from reality.
No, the Internet as a whole has more liberals than conservatives, due to a variety of reason. In real life you are much more likely to met someone that is neutral or only slightly to either side. What exists here is literal echo chambers of liberal policy to the point the policy becomes unpalatable for most, that doesn't exist outside the internet.
Never been to any type of city, I see.
As a rural person, I've come to realize that we usually have no real concept of just how overwhelmingly large the population is that lives in huge cities.
It's easy to perceive New York as just "a lot bigger than any town I've lived in" rather than "large enough that my entire town could visit on the same day and literally no one would notice".
Another one that helps me put it in perspective - "If every resident of New York took a day trip to casually slap one member of my town one time, everyone in my town would probably die of our injuries." It helps me when meditating on "Why should they wield so much political power?" They already do. This shared voting system just let's us argue in a much chiller way.
A lot of history makes more sense through the context of realizing both how different city and town life is, while also accepting that an almost inconceivable number of people live in cities.
Because Conservatives don't know how to use the internet or change the channel away from fox
I don't like fox or cnn. They're both corrupt. I prefer to get my news through youtube. I search for experts on a certain topic explaining the issue. During covid I watched a lot of doctors explaining covid on YouTube.
YouTube is not a news source my friend. A lot of the “experts” you’ll find on there have zero credibility.
Saying "I get news from YouTube" is like saying "I get news from the television". It matters what channel you're on.
What direction do you think fox is biased towards? What direction do you think cnn is biased towards?
It's worse than getting news from TV. TV doesn't have an algorithm feeding you Right wing propaganda like YouTube pushes.
No. The Internet just seems more liberally slanted because people are more liberally slanted overall. Conservatives rely on outdated voting principles to make it seem like they are more widely supported than they actually are. Things like first past the post, electoral college and gerrymandering. This is why you see republicans fighting to either keep the voting process the way it is, or to restrict voting in various ways.
Also, conservatives feel like the Internet is more slanted to the left because they are usually stuck in their little rural community echo chamber. Then come to the internet where they actually have to interact with people outside their local area, like cities and other countries.
They also rely on the low voter turnout. If more people under 40 voted, it would likely be consistent liberal governance for the foreseeable future.
It sure exists in the podcasts I listen to (real people talking, even if it gets delivered via internet) and books that I read. It exists in the conversations that I have with my social group irl. It existed like crazy at the Bernie campaign speech that I attended in Feb 2020. If you think Leftist / Social Democrats don't have real numbers, it's because you don't look for those groups to surround you.
It’s not even the internet. Conservatives are more likely to stick to existing stuff and not experiment much. Liberals do that.
This is why places like YouTube have a big conservative audience. Places like Lemmy will have a huge liberal audience
I know it's scary to be in the real world outside of your conservative silo, but as you're seeing the lies your News agencies have been feeding you simply aren't true.
The Red states flipping blue, Texas going purple and the vast majority of Americans being in favor of roe v wade show that your world view of conservatism is not the majority belief in America.
Just a reminder that it isn't a left vs right conversation. It's working class vs ruling class.
You aren't bitter at leftists, you're bitter at the ideas that media companies use to keep you angry at leftists instead of oligarchs.
If you have to work, you're working class.
If you actually do hate certain types of people, then you need to work on yourself.
If you don't believe certain people need health care, then you need to work on yourself.
If you believe ultra wealthy (people making over $10mil in income annually) deserve more tax cuts, then you need to work on yourself.
If you don't believe that minimum wage should have parity with inflation, then you need to work on yourself.
Have some class solidarity.
EDIT: To all those downvotes... Ask yourself why you are downvoting me. (Now with 100% more sources)
Do you actually hate certain people? Really? But you're downvoting me? Work on yourself.
Do you actually believe you don't deserve health care? That others don't deserve health care? Seriously? Work on yourself.
Are you super wealthy (low percentage chance)? I'm saying uncomfortable things to you. But you can easily afford those taxes so maybe work on yourself.
Do you believe people working for minimum wage shouldn't be able to afford an apartment by themselves anywhere in the USA? Work on yourself.
Also, to add to this: Leftist ideologies does not have to be authoritarian or have to involve genocides like some regimes have did some in the past. Leftist ideologies is compatible with democracy, and some might argue that Leftist ideologies require a democratic system.
Example: North Korea currently is called "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" but I doubt most people would actually consider that democratic.
Now imagine someone just started shouting "Democracy is bad because North Korea is a Democracy. This is why Monarchy is better!"
See how idiotic that sounds. Same thing with claiming all Leftist ideologies are bad because of a few failed "Marxist-Leninist" societal experiments. Some socialist policies have been successfully implemented. In Norway, although it's still a capitalist country, has implemented some socialist policies under the "Nordic Model". This is sometimes referred to as Social Democracy. See how democracy still exists in Norway?
Well said. I'm saving this.
I think it'll be tough to find that corner of it... I think I saw a conservative community on lemmy.world but the platforms original purpose was to get away from the big, controlling, capitalist social media platforms the likes of Twitter, Instagram, reddit, etc. Like mastodon, the largest part of the fediverse (I'm pretty sure), grew alot when twitter was brought by Elon, and more moved after he messed up the platform enough, saying they'll create their own platform where hate won't be allowed. It's kinda against it's nature to have much conservative-ness.
Not trying to be rude as based on how this sounds, you seem nice enough and not crazy, but places like mastodon are basically the left's version of "Truth social" where people are pretty ok with saying "I don't want those thoughts spread here" those thoughts they don't want are usually things like homophobia or transphobia, but those are fairly common on the right even if you don't share them.
It's an interesting thought and would probably be alittle healthier, but hey you're still here being able to provide that counter point of view
Anyone who votes for a party that supports racism, banning books, and trying to make it harder for people to vote is not "nice enough".
They are an evil piece of shit who is making the country a miserable place to live.
I agree with this but we aren't talking about castings votes here and I'm assuming OP is voting as if he is a sane person, but what are they supposed to do with the values they hold that don't align with liberalism?
I would decide which is worse: the things I listed, or the things the voter may dislike about liberal policies like free healthcare for all.
Grow as a person. Something we should all strive to do. There are plenty of places I diverged from all the hard right liberals. Mostly around the capitalism fetish. But I can support them at least because of their more pro social democracy stance. But I can articulate and explain the logic why when asked. As a socialist I also diverge heavily from anti social democracy socialists. And again, can general explain and point out the reasons why. Things most of my fellow Americans have little understanding of or desire too. But none of us are perfect, nor will we ever be. But that isn't a reason to stop growing.
I only vote republican when they have good views. I'd rather get rid of political parties and make people run on merit alone.
What was the last decade where that happened?
If you have only two choices and both are bad, you have to choose the lesser evil. The OP probably doesn't like the racism and stuff, but they dislike certain policies of the other party even more.
Also, “trying to make it harder for people to vote” is an interesting way to say “requiring people to bring their citizen ID when voting, like in any civilized country”.
I would say that the dismantling of human rights would be a greater evil than the things the democrats could cook up, but if you are not affected and have no empathy for others it could be better to vote for the republicans.
And werent the conditions to be able to vote pretty restrictive to a lot of people?
I live in a country where identification is required for voting and it doesn't feel restrictive. On the contrary, I'm glad someone can't just vote in my name.
In the US the largest group of people without id's are Democrats and black.
It's literally making the system more racist.
Every black person has an ID, you have to otherwise you can't do anything anyways. I have never met anyone in my community who doesn't have some form of ID that's valid in elections.
So the question is, why doesn't everyone have IDs? How does the country identify its citizens?
IDs cost money, require visits to DMVs (which conservatives work hard to shut down in poor areas, or other fuckery with their hours or such), and if you want the federal level one cost more and require more paperwork
We use the garbage and not-designed-for-this social security number for major IDing
Because the republicans work very hard to make it difficult for people who would likely vote democrat.
If you got an ID sent to you when you turned $AGE I'd support requiring it to vote. But any proposal of free/automatic IDs gets shouted down by fanatics who think it's the mark of the beast from Revelations. It's a non-starter.
In my country:
Where is this Shangri-la?
Not such: we're in Latin America and we have a multitude of other problems.
I'm thinking specifically of gerrymandering but this article covers the many voter disenfranchisement methods used by Republicans in the US in the past decades:
https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/09/29/stacking-the-deck-how-the-gop-works-to-suppress-minority-voting/
There's far more to making voting more difficult than just requiring an ID. For example, I believe it was Texas that relatively recently lowered its number of voting stations in left-leaning areas and made it illegal to give people water that were waiting in line to vote.
You can be someone that's not inherently against capitalism and for free communications platforms. I think stuff like this is a good start for polycentric regulation, which I see as important for any type of a voluntary or anarchist future.
I don't think it's controversial to say that "conservative" in the context of US politics has been bifurcated. On the one hand, there are definitely traditional conservatives out there. On the other hand, the really loud ones tend to be far right edge lords who purposefully speak loudly about topics that are socially unacceptable. It's always based on a misunderstanding of free speech, too: people are generally free to say what they want, but they are not free from the consequences imposed by society based on what they say, especially when supporting harmful activities or straight violence. This is something Elon Musk really should learn about.
I'm all for open discourse with traditional conservatives, but I'm not about to sit idly by while Nazis return to the stage. There was a war and the outcome was pretty darned clear. So, I'd say it's a good example of bad apples ruining the bunch (though from what I have seen, the
numberratio of Nazis vs traditional conservatives is sadly pretty high). I think it is an issue that will need to be fixed between conservatives, ultimately. Shutting down Nazis (again) seems quite acceptable to me, however.I think you mean ratio, not number.
Yes, and just edited. Thanks.
I understand how you feel, let me know if you find anything. I'm more left leaning myself, but I'm also not a fan of echo chambers and it gets pretty tiring and annoying seeing the same stuff over and over again. At the end of the day, I just wanna see an open, fair, and balanced discussion. The Fediverse is undeniably very left leaning currently, which is surprising to me since you'd think the anti-censorship design on paper would appeal more to people on the right who are against big tech and censorship, but I guess not? It's interesting.
american conservatives care more about denying rights and liberties than anything else as evidenced by their leaders and publicly shared platforms; so if you believe that censorship has anything to do w it, you're not a conservative.
I think both the left and the right are concerned with restricting rights, they just have different views of which rights it's okay to obstruct.
Which rights to leftists want to "obstruct"?
They never come back to answer that question do they?
I personally would like to further obstruct the freedom to murder children at school.
I second that
Personally I want to obstruct the right to murder schoolchildren that seems to have become prevalent but the rightwingers seem to think that's an infringement.
The "rights" to deny bodily autonomy and to enact ethnical cleansing are not worth defending.
Ah yes, the classic conservative "both sides" argument.
I mean honestly it's probably near impossible to discuss conservative politics online these days without the far right loonies invading, taking over and getting the place banned lol.
Also I wonder if conservatives would be put off lemmy given the political stance of its creators - even though that shouldn't matter being free and open and not controlled by any one person, you know how people are.
Why do you think it is, that those "far right loonies" feel welcome and comfortable in those "conservative" spaces?
I mean, while that could be correct I also consider that if far right spaces get banned regularly then those people are refugees that will invade the next closest thing?
Obviously the next closest thing to far right, is center right. Does that make the center right inherently bad? I don't think so necessarily on principle.
I disagree with conservative views almost entirely but its not something that I believe shouldn't have discussion spaces, unlike far right politics which can just get fucked with their disdain for basic human rights, they don't deserve a seat at the table at all.
I suppose ultimately it's down to moderation isn't it. If conservatives want a seat at the table they have to keep their lunatics in check and if they don't then yeah don't see why I should cry over it really, and thats true of all online communities.
Center-right just fits in with everyone else. Either all those people have shut up and just blend in with liberals or they don’t really exist.
I know, so weird right
If someone is “conservative” but not a Trump loving Q nut job, I’d argue that they have about the same in common with the Biden administration than many progressives online do. There is no overlap with the majority republicans party today. The concept of discussion is not compatible.
I mean there are also other countries in the world with various varieties of conservatives but I see your point
The conservatives in many other first world nation would fit better with the democrats in the US at the center. The US Republican party is lost. These people do pop up in other countries though, Canada especially.
This is my issue as well. There is nothing inherently wrong with conservative politics, but most arguments I see about politics online are about highly charged topics instead of actual policy discussion. Lots of heated emotions from people whose easiest outlet is anger doesn't make for good conversations.
It often feels like we represent media interests and are arguing on behalf of whatever source we spend the most time immersed in.
What US conservative platform bullet isn’t a grift? Is there any? It’s been nearly a decade since I came across a conservative arguing anything in good faith.
I've already seen it happening with people on Reddit (they don't seem particularly conservative either) claiming that lemmy is "built and run by Tankies". Many of these people though are/were also scabs so take that as you will.
What a baffling take. I'm stunned that you managed to describe the exact opposite of reality. The left are against centralisation of power, especially in corporations... It's so absurd to suggest the left are fans of big tech. It's even more absurd to suggest the right are not. The right wing supports capitalism, and corporate monopoly is pretty much the goal of any capitalist business.
Also, censorship is utterly irrelevant to this discussion... apart from, i guess, social media execs having the power to silence people who hate them. Which are... most likely to be leftists...
Such a weird comment. I'm shook.
Being a conservative must be a discombobulating experience in the technological age. The conservative is attempting to prevent the progression of society and conserve what we currently have or even revert to a bygone era.
OP arrives at a brand new platform, a piece of technology that didn't exist a short while ago and requests a space to assemble people who don't like change.
Do you think that progress is a straight line?
As shown by votes on abortion rights in states like Kansas, Michigan, etc, your views are in the minority. Media makes it seem like the country is split 50-50, but the only reason that appearance isn't turned on its head is low voter turnout.
I do hope you find a place where you feel comfortable, however. I think that's reasonable to strive for for all people regardless of their views.
Nah, man. If your views involve forcing the birth of a baby with spina-bifida or my wife carrying a dead fetus for three months or more, you can get fucked.
Also gerrymandering
Honestly? And I promise I'm not being sarcastic: Reddit and Twitter are still your home. But the same goes for centre-left liberals. It's not that you're conservative, it's that you're moderate.
Many of the recent arrivals to the fediverse (myself included) are here because we're fleeing the corporate internet. We feel strongly enough about it that we've thrown all our toys out of the pram, abandoning huge platforms to try build this new space. This kind of behaviour isn't exactly "centrist".
So this nascent lemmyverse has a wiiiiide breadth of political views but not as much in the middle because those folks are all still on the old platforms. Over here we have Nazis, hexbear and shitposts. And porn. It's still early days.
Why make it a right vs left thing at all. Can't we just discuss things going on as they are without pigeonholing certain opinions as "right" and "left?"
I don't think x y z thing is true because I'm "on the left." I think it's true because it's my best understanding of reality, and that understanding of reality is generally described as "left." If you falsify my arguments, point flaws in my understanding, or present me with a set of premises that corroborates reality better, I'll align myself with that in a heartbeat. When you see something you disagree with, don't just think "oh that's leftism I don't agree with that," instead, try to figure out what you think the flaw is with it, and then offer that up in good faith. Worst case scenario, someone learns something.
I can appreciate opposing views, including conservative ones, if they are grounded in reason. In fact I welcome them .. they sharpen my own arguments and make me question my beliefs which is seldom a bad thing.
What I cannot accept is any argument based on a supernatural entity. If you want to make laws because your holy book tells you to then I'll do everything in my power to block you. You have the absolute right to follow your own beliefs but you have no right to force those beliefs on others.
You have a point there. I agree with a lot of views from the left even though I'm on the right.
First off, thank you :)
Second off, I am having a hard time understanding what the statement "I agree with a lot of views from the left even though I’m on the right" means. What do you consider "views from the left" that you agree with, and what does it mean to you to say you're "on the right?"
I know people here will try to debate me on every issue here and I know I won't have time for that. Go ahead and ask whatever questions you want, but I can't promise I'll answer everything. .
I don't have a perfect knowledge of exactly what's on the left and right so please forgive me if I put something in the wrong category.
I understand that left vs right ideally shouldn't exist. The same goes for political parties. They do exist so here's some of my views from both sides.
Right. I don't agree with critical race theory. Skin color should be treated like hair color or eye color. It's just a way to describe someone.
Government should strictly obey the constitution.
Billionaires should exist if they do businesses ethically.
People involved in abortions should consider the life of the fetus.
I find myself agreeing more with conservatives when voting.
The electoral college is a good thing because it lets small towns have a voice.
Left. Walkable cities are a more efficient use of space.
Climate change is real and humans are continuing. It's not going to destroy the world in 5 years like some people are saying. It's mostly going to affect poor costal countries and islands many years in the future.
Corporations should be held accountable for their actions.
Puerto Rico and other US territories should be a states or their own country.
People involved in abortions should consider the life of the mother.
Ultimately if people want to debate you, you're not obligated to indulge them. It's good for discourse to put out your opinion in the way that you have (eg respectfully and without throwing barbs at everyone).
That said, some of your points are hard for me to follow.
If you can't articulate the difference, how is it that you came to identify as one? IMO "left vs right" is an intentionally vague and poorly defined concept to keep people angry and identifying with a brand, more than a coherent description of ideology.
I hear so much about this. What does it mean? Can you give a real world example where someone is trying to implement what you oppose?
I don't remember off the top of my head exactly what CRT is, but I remember this video was a really good explanation.
Edit: I also can't tell you exactly where it's being taught in the real world. It's not a topic I've done thorough research in.
CRT is something that is widely mischarcterized, especially in politics. It is principally an academic topic in sociology and law.
In the simplest form, it looks at how historical treatment of groups based upon their race/ethnic background can have an impact on their descendents and how that can also impact society.
For example, due to enslavement of their ancestors, a larger proportion of African Americans are impoverished than those of European descent. This has further impacts on how they are perceived in society and vice-versa.
That's literally the sort of thing that it is. Not assigning value to skin color but looking at how society historically has and its impacts.
The reason I asked was because I think there's a fundamental disagreement between what it actually is that people disagree about.
Your earlier post suggests that your stance on abortion is different than that of the mainstream conservative narrative. This seems normal, based on how every vote on that issue seems to be playing out, there is a disconnect between the ideology that conservative leaders are pushing and what their supporters actually think. The exact same situation is true with affirmation action on the left - voters consistently reject it regardless of party affiliation or self identified political leaning.
I'd hear people identify CRT as being closely related to affirmative action, in that it's an actual policy that gives out some advantage (or seeks to remove some other existing advantage, if you have a different perspective) vs being some purely academic case study more like what a other response to your response described.
Where I'm going with this is that depending on what you're describing when you say CRT, it's very easily possible that your position of opposing it is consistent with a clear majority of people who identify as "left". The disagreement isn't about ideology, but about semantics that is being exploited by a political class to drive support.
You seem like a reasonable guy, so I'll try to explain why I heavily disagree with some of these.
I get the whole "they earned their money fairly" argument, but I can never justify morally the act of having more money than you, your children and grandchildren can ever know how to spend. Try to visualize a bit how much a billion is, it's a disgusting amount of money for a single person when you can spend them to help others in a meaningful way, like investing in healthcare to make it accessible for example.
Think of the common situations where people use abortion. It's usually young people who are not in a position to raise a child, people who are a bad couple or not even a couple to begin with, that aren't suitable to raise a child together, poor people that can't afford to raise a child properly, and cases where the fetus has a life altering problem.
In all of these cases, you are prioritizing a fetus over the whole life of a person who will grow up much much worse than an average child.
Isn't this a conflicting view with the other one? Which one should you prioritize if the mother is too young to bear a child, the mother who is a grown person with memories, hopes and dreams, a personality, a family etc., or the fetus which doesn't really perceive anything that's going on at the moment?
Have you not seen what's going on all around the world? Fires everywhere, whirlwinds, floods, all more common than they have ever been. And are you willing to bet that it's not going to become even worse as it goes on? Because I'm willing to bet that if we don't fix it very very soon, then climate migrations, wars and famine might even be close enough for us or our children to experience.
Is there a history of descriminating and enslaving people based on their hair or eye color? You don't think that that history has any effect on society?
Like what? Because you're likely just agreeing with what they say, because they're lying, and you're believing them. Not because of any inherent truth to what they say. It's one thing to agree with someone on something they say. But do you agree with what they DO? Give an example of a price of legislation that the Republicans have pushed that the Democrats opposed that you agree with
And why do you think the Democrats don't think the government should follow the Constitution. Which party is enacting laws explicitly bypassing constituonal rights by allowing citizens to sue privately, rather than enforcing it themselves, explicitly to get around constitutional issues. Which party is banning books, firing teachers for protected speech, etc
All of your right leaning opinions listed are not opinions at all - they are Republican talking points, written and promoted by Republicans whose life experience (abortion for example) often flies in the face of these statements.
How you think they fit with the rest of your statements is beyond me. Do you just drool and nod at Fox News?
With all due respect, you're very condescending and snobby. You act like you know his beliefs better than he does, that superiority complex looks ugly on you.
You think insulting people for having certain views is going to be helpful in this dialogue? You think mocking someone who's having a conversation with you in good faith is productive?
Grow up, quit being so smug and childish.
I don't watch fox news.
Yet you somehow know all of their talking points and made up fantasy situations. So if you're not getting your news from fox, whoever you are getting it from is getting it from fox, like Facebook.
You've made that pretty clear by going off on "critical race theory". Tell us how you know about that, and where you got your definition for it from?
I can't speak for the the person you replied to but I get my information from a variety of sources. One is the Economist magazine, (hardly a right wing tabloid). In a recent op-ed John McWhorter, who is a professor of English and comparative literature at Columbia University, and the author of more than a dozen books, and who also happens to be black, Mr McWhorter laments that CRT has "painted black Americans as hypersensitive children, immune to reason and indifferent to nuance". He goes on to say that "Whites insist this is progress in order to feel unracist. Black people (although hardly in the lockstep many suppose) insist this is progress because it lends them a useful “noble victim” status. The result is a chronic, pervasive mendacity, dehumanising black people as thoroughly as outright bigotry did, despite being presented as respect and even worship.".
You may disagree with Mr McWhorter. I certainly do. But for you to so casually dismiss another person as an gnorant, fox news dummy simply because they have different views tells us more about you than about them.
So that just tells us that McWhorter doesn't know what CRT is either apparently
I'm pretty sure that he does know what it is. As I said I don't agree with many of his arguments, but they are nonetheless cogent and reasoned arguments.
He claims for example that CRT proponents are mostly white liberal elites who just want to demonstrate their anti-racist credentials. He also makes the point that CRT ultimately harms blacks and people of color by implicitly lowering standards for those groups. The "soft racism of low expectations". These are valid criticisms.
Instead of dismissing him as ignorant, (as so many of us liberals often do), it's better to engage and try to refute what he claims.
Project harderv.
Hey I understand the frustration, but the person you're replying too seems to me to be offering up their understanding of things in good faith, and if your goal is to maje the world better—good faith discussion is going to go a lot further in that.
Although if your goal is just to feel good dunking on that person, then I suppose this comment serves that goal, but I want to believe you do actually care about trying to make things better.
Define "conservative"
Conserving every status-quo, except for conserving the environment, because fuck the environment.
Oh, and don’t forget about social safety nets that are part of the status quo but which they also don’t care about.
And social freedoms. Because fuck other's freedoms.
Also no human or personal rights. Everyone should be a slave except for the rich. And fuck your vacations.
And not really conserving status quo either but actively trying to make it shittier.
What I'd like it to mean - the belief that government intervention often hurts the people that it's meant to help, so should only be used in limited circumstances and be carefully designed.
It seems to mean white supremacy, misogyny, homophobia and xenophobia instead.
The idea that government intervention is bad puzzles me every time I encounter it. Government in a democracy should be "the people" and intervention could protect you in so many cases. Assuming you're from the US, from an outside perspective your job 'market' is utterly fucked. Because of cuts to the welfare system (which have been marketed with somewhat racist propaganda, see welfare queens), most people are forced to take highly unregulated, low-paying jobs (yes, plural) while rich people and big companies earn more and more. The government could intervene and make it harder for companies to exploit workers the way they're doing it right now.
Look at how it was 60 years ago. Single income, blue collar households could afford houses. Now double income academic households can't. And all that despite the huge technological progress we made. We need so much less manual labor than in the 1960s. Everything should be easier. For everyone.
That is because denying welfare to people who need it happens to line up perfectly with the beliefs of those groups you named. Neoliberalism didn't work out for the people, only people still voting for this shit are bigots and gullible morons.
That definition doesn't seem to fit the verb conserve or adjective conserving. If it's specifically about government, wouldn't it be better to use a term for that instead of the very broad conservative? Slim Government?
Conservative includes a lot more than just a government ideology.
In terms of economics, liberal and conservative used to mean regarding the role of government. They've taken the opposite meanings in American political discourse.
Even the first part of your comment is some fairy tale rich people tell you so they can make more profit.
I think they're often wrong, but I've known a lot of people who aren't rich and believe it in good faith.
Of course they believe it. Rich people get idolized like crazy and rich people are constantly saying that programs that benefit the average citizen are bad and are too expensive for the tax payers.
Conservatives spent two generations actively trying to make the government worse and less effective just so they can turn around and say "look how shitty this is!"
you probably have to convince more people with those views to switch away from their other social media.
i suspect moderate conservative people are maybe more likely to stay with status quo/ monolithic / non-distributed services, so there won't be as many moving to a new looser open source thing.
like i bet linux / open source / foss users are a little bit more likely to be liberal or socialist (or DGAFs) - at least insofar as they're choosing on principles of ownership and user rights rather than affordability - its sort of linked-in to those licenses which inherently disempower the individual creator of the IP (vs say a patent) and empower the end users and people who want to reuse the IP in a different ways. That's basically a liberal ownership model vs a capitalist one - to grossly oversimply.
conservatives are maybe more likely to be buying proprietary services from microsoft, oracle, or amazon/google ( pay someone else to run your linux /postgres for you!), if they're happy eating all that shit from them, reddit is probably fine.
If you want to see where the conservatives moved to, go to scored.co. (formerly thedonald.win). The worst thing about them isn't limited to the unhinged garbage they spew, but that they are just such bores.
It's so awful in every way imaginable that it makes me appreciate what we have here even more.
It depends on what you mean by conservative. If you're going by the American definition, then good luck as all of those have been mass defederated due to them nearly always turning into far right toxic harassment zones. If you are European though and go by their definition, you'll probably be fine. America leans very right by default. Democrats to a degree are skewed right wing at the very least economically.
This. Conservative in the US is basically extreme-right/fascism in the rest of the world. Even democrats would be considered right learning in say, Canada.
If you are the MAGA kind, you WILL need an echo chamber because nobody wants to interact with these anymore.
Normal, klassical conservative or "Republican party crazy level" racism and nazism?
the former is a dead concept in the u.s., the latter has its own propaganda-spewing outlets.
Fortunately not everyone lives in the US
You know Carlos too?
Are you saying that there isn't a single person in the USA whose beliefs align with the former definition of conservatism?
They might be, but they're considered leftists.
The Overton window moves so fast to the right in the US that it has a visible Doppler effect.
There are a lot of them. We call them democrats/liberals now.
Not likely that there will be a conservative instance. Lemmys core principles are "left leaning" so that already lowers tolerance for the audience "the right" attracts. Every conservative instance eventually gets deleted and defederated because toxicity is baked into the idea. America's "left" is already right wing to the rest of the modern world, so going further than that is just... not great. You can hope for the "ENLIGHTENED_CENTRISTS" to try to keep a somewhat moderated instance but I wouldn't hold my breath.
I don't think that lemmy's principles are left leaning at all... Sure they're anti-authoritarian but being anti-authoritarian doesn't mean you're a leftist -
George Orwell characterises this really well(mb)But George Orwell was a leftist.
Oh damn I misremembered, my bad
Somehow I got mixed up by the fact that animal farm was anti-authoritarian, not anti-left
Orwell criticized leftists as well. 1984 was a critic of Stalinism.
Check the "All" page on the big Lemmy instances, it's undoubtedly very left-leaning. This whole thread is a testament to that.
Right wingers are inherently authoritarian. Their ideology rests upon the belief that some people are just naturally better, and more suited to lead. Leftists have the capability for authoritarianism of course, but you're not gonna find a single view that coherently critiques power while also having hierarchy.
Society is inherently authoritarian leaning. If you put people in an environment where they aren't on first name terms with everyone they interact with you're going to end up with an authority not caring about people they don't know personally. If you wanna go back to living in a single village with minimal outside contact except with traders you are familiar with anyway then go for it, but I can't see many people actually wanting that. To find the minimal levels of authoritarianism that work with a society where there is a centralised power you'd probably have to look at the centre-left, with it getting more authoritarian the more right or left you go from there
Or you could just not have any people in power. Y'know, like the far left, anarchism and communism, which you claim are authoritarian.
I don't claim that anarchism is authoritarian, just that when it isn't it's incompatible with a globalised or even national level society. Communism is a different thing as you can have authoritarian (heavily or slightly) communism in a globalised or national society but it isn't inherently authoritarian - you can also have non authoritarian communism as a structure that doesn't work in a globalised or national society
You said the further you move left or right, the more authoritarian you get. Communism and anarchism exist as the most left you can get, and both advocate a complete dismantling and removal of state, and government.
Did you not know that?
Thanks for admitting your ignorance.
[citation needed]
If anything, global statelessness is the best and most likely path to it succeeding. Also:
If there is any state whatsoever, it isn't communism OR anarchism. Neither have any authority.
Serious question: Wouldn’t you as a conservative who doesn’t want an echo chamber therefore NOT join a conservative community? Wouldn’t THAT put you in an echo chamber?
I want both liberal and conservative views. I'm not planning on leaving lemmy.
If you find that, let me know. My entire experience on platform after platform is that the internet is 80% messy, open conversational marketplace that tends to lean left, 19% conservative echo chamber, and 1% tight, closed door communities where “reasonable” conservatives live in denial of the world around them.
If you feel like you’re in a liberal echo chamber because you see trans people being talked about as real without anyone coming to shout it all down, then what you’re really looking for is the 19% and I’m sure you’ll find it.
It's sad that respect, empathy and basic human rights are "leftist" ideals.
Yes. And it’s imperative for us to recognize that’s where it’s come to.
@Snowman44
My politics lean very far to the left, but I don't want to be an echo chamber and it saddens me to see how little room for political dialogue there is on lemmy. The echo chamber is a big problem with reddit, and is even worse on Lemmy.
Exploding-heads is the only instance I'm aware of with a more right leaning/conservative base. It is more troll content than any real discussion of politics though.
"It is more troll content than any real discussion of politics though."
Yeah that's how the republicans discuss politic
Could you define "conservative" in terms of politics (presumably US)? For example, low taxes and small government? And/or anti abortion and pro religion? Anti gun safety legislation? Anti regulation?
Perhaps you're looking for the more contemporary definition of "conservative" that's come about since the Tea Party or MAGA movements started? Mostly focused on being against whatever liberals/progressive are for?
As others have mentioned I think there are a lot of spaces out there for the latter group. I'm not sure many exist for the former group.
None exist for the former group, you toe one of the other two lines completely or you can go fuck off, individual thought is sacrelige and nuance is dead.
I think by very nature of the Fediverse having somewhat leftist ideas baked into the design philosophy (decentralized, transparent, FOSS, and communal in design), that it gives the Fediverse an intrinsically left-leaning audience, so it may be harder to find a right-leaning community that isn't extreme right like some others have mentioned. In general, I'd say that the needle points significantly left-of-center on the Fediverse as a result.
With Threads possibly federating soon, it's possible that that may attract more conservative users to the Fediverse as a whole, which may foster the development of more conservative corners of the platform for those who want to venture outside of Meta's bounds. Though that mostly applies to the Mastodon/microblogging side of things, not so much the Lemmy/Kbin stuff. Though technically Mastodon and Lemmy are compatible, as well, so that may still bring more conservative spaces, as well. Time will tell on that.
One could argue that decentralized, bottom up organization is essentially the structure of the modern evangelical movement.. It's also kinda the playbook for modern terrorism though.. ISIS, Timothy McVeigh, etc..
It would be nice to have moderate conservative voices in the mix but unfortunately that world just seems to be filled with mostly batshit crazy ideas that do more harm than good.
... life
I am yet to spot a conservative on Mastodon.
There are conservatives on Mastodon, but the rest of the Fediverse defederates the explicitly conservative instances. The big ones are Gab, Parler, and TruthSocial, which don't seem to federate with anybody at all. (I would advise against looking them up, because they have a rather high concentration of Nazis).
I thought gab pulled the plug on federation because their goal wasn't to be federated in the first place, it was just a force themselves on others and be accessible from the Play store.
Oh I'm fully aware of Gab. I stumbled upon on one of their instances that was blocked from lemmy.world. Wasn't sure if it was actually a Gab instance but it sure as shit was.
Personally, I quite enjoy perusing the memes on the myriad of conspiracy theories they like to peddle. The whole website is a guilty pleasure of mine.
Wait, I take a week off and threads federating is possible? What the hell?
Thats always been on the cards, on threads side. It was just a lot of instances were calling to preempt it by defederating beforehand.
Its been going on for much longer than a week
I'm confused. You are here and engaging, but you think it is an echo chamber? Echo chambers aren't really conducive to outside opinions. I'm here and definitely not a liberal, I'm a humanitarian.
As long as you don't see any person to the left of you as a Liberal, you'll find a decently diverse pool here!
Stick around, smell the flowers.
I don't want to be in this echo chamber, I want to me in my echo chamber
unfortunately for OP reality has a left-leaning bias.
Only the loudest voices tend to rise to the top of unmoderated social media. That doesn't lend itself to being a good forum for moderate discussion. You'll have to look elsewhere
The fediverse is what people make of it.
I think a balance of liberal to conservative discussions can be good for the general consensus. However, it usually ends in a screaming match. Liberals want change. Conservatives don't want change.
The best option for humanity is to have some change and not change things too quickly, but in order to reach that happy medium, we have to talk through it, apply critical thinking, and be able to listen and reflect when we receive new information.
It also doesn't help that the view of what Americans have on what is conservative and what Europe views as conservative is very different. American politics lean right by default, so when people tend to refer to conservatism in the US it is almost always referring to the far-right. If Joe Biden was a politician nearly anywhere in Western Europe, he would likely be seen at the very least as an economic conservative.
Joe Biden would probably be one of the more right wing members in the liberal party here (which is a right wing party). The US definitions of liberal and conservative are totally out of touch with the actual philosophical/ideological underpinnings of those terms.
then it must be specified if we already are aware that people will assume American conservative when they hear the word conservative. though, it's unlikely OP meant anything other than American conservatism, see buzz-words like "liberal echo chamber"
Conservatives also want to take away peoples rights, ban books, make it harder to vote, and hurt minorities.
The USA Republican Party is not representative of all conservatives in the whole world.
True. But it is what most of us are talking about here.
...yet.
Excuse me, but as a black person I've heard so many people in the star trek community saying racial slurs against me without a care in the world
It's why I hate that stupid show now
I think political communities in general tend to get quite heated if a debate gets going and because it's unlikely people are going to change their mind it gets personal.
In some ways the left wing ones are worse for this - I have been accused in my time of being too left wing and too right wing, there's a lot of different splinter groups and factions.
Tbh I just avoid politics on Reddit, Lemmy and similar, unless it's just to share or comment on a news story maybe. I don't think it's the right format for reasonable conversation
I recommend avoiding political communities in general. too many extremists on either side of the political spectrum.
Then I guess you should avoid most Lemmy instances too. They're already very political, and it feels more like a left-wing echo chamber every day.
Isn't that just a fancy way of saying "I want more lies, ignorance and hate sprinkled in"?
"More politically balanced" lol
So anyone who doesn't subscribe to everything you believe in or agree with are liars, ignorant, and hateful? Discussions and debate can be healthy.
Ever been on a conservative subreddit? No matter how open minded you are, you can't overlook how they don't even care to spread misinformation.
The exact same thing can be said for liberal communities. It becomes a hivemind where dissenting opinions are not allowed.
Take the Hunter Biden laptop story for instance. So many websites and communities outright banned it from being discussed or posted because they didn't like the optics of it. Facebook banned it, the top subs on reddit banned it.
Only very recently has CNN decided to treat it as news, after lying about it constantly on air for months saying it was fake. That's censorship of information. The left regularly spread misinformation like "the laptop story is a Russian hoax".
Both sides do this.
Yeah. I have. Echo chambers. Hated them.
But the OP seems to be open-minded based on this post. If he is (or at least tries to be), then I don't see a reason why we should just criticize his politics without just cause. If he eventually proves to be a troll or breaks rules then maybe the admins can ban him.
It's hard to generalize. There are assholes from all political spectrums, even though there may be more in others.
Edit: if I'm not mistaken, I think it was Voat I checked out last? I really can't remember but this isn't the first time I tried leaving reddit. This is the most successful attempt yet, though. I also inadvertently joined a Q group/channel on Telegram. Lmao.
Yes, and I find them indistinguishable from liberal subreddits. The echo chambers are pretty easy to find..
I mean there's no reason in debating a liar, it's lose lose.
I don't think Fediverse should be divided according to political compass. Just start a community on any instance and find your people. I don't think you will face any censorship if the discussion is kept civilized.
I have heard few supposedly right wing instances were defederated, but I don't agree it happened because of their agenda. The true reason was an overall 4-chan like chaos and hatread.
I'm just going to say try making an account on the unilem.org instance, from there you'll be able to access all instances from the fediverse. It's about as politically balanced as they get since they almost never defederate, it doesn't have very many communities though so you'll have to find those on other instances, by the way if a community from another instance doesn't appear in the one that you're in, go to the search bar in the communities tab and type
![community name]@[instance domain]and assuming that you typed it correctly it'll usually sync it and then you can subscribe to it.Since unilem hasn't defederated any of the big instances you'll very likely have access to all communities on Lemmy.
Let me know if you do find a more moderate space, because yeah, it's very much an echo chamber on most Lemmy communities.
I might recommend checking out certain communities that tailor more to your hobbies rather than politics on here.
I share your sentiment. Every now and then I see a conversation like this and it points to exploding heads or similar, but that's disappointing. I've actually checked it out and it's just 5-6 basement dwellers posting memes to their own communities without any interaction. That's not political right; that's just a bunch of losers. It's also sad that this is what the fediverse thinks right wing is.
It's not just the fediverse that thinks this of the right.
Taking the US as an example: if you look at how often conservative/republican politicians oppose hateful people like Trump you're going to find it... nearly doesn't happen at all. They stood together and supported him.
The problem actually isn't that someone like Trump can get into office or some harmful and bigoted policy can appear for consideration. The issue is that it gets supported, it gets tolerated.
At least in the US-y sense of left/right, I think this makes it fair to group those people together. I'll stop doing that when there's an apparent distinction.
What's a sensible political right space look like in your opinion? Because, in my view, self-identified conservatives on the internet tend to be the ones espousing hate and/or conspiracy theories while the more moderate ones don't use the label or stick to centrist if anything. At the very least, there is an image problem with conservatism online.
Maybe those conservative instances are disappointing because conservatism itself is disappointing?
Seems like conservatives mostly consist of denying reality, believing in conspiracy theories or working against human rights.
well i mean,,, same thing
I got blasted a while back because I said I am a centrist who doesn't fully side with anybody. Too many people want an echo chamber.
Would you be a centrist in 1930s Germany too?
Yes, because a centrist wouldn't want the totalitarian regime of Hitler either.
What I meant is that not voting against Nazis/conservatives in a two party system is almost as bad as voting for them.
What does this have to do with the point I'm trying to make here?
That that is why you got blasted.
Ah yes, the good ol' argument that if I criticize the progressives in any way, that means I'm a Trump supporter. Get out of here with that bullshit.
This binary view of politics is exactly what's ruining this country.
Right wingers sure are losers tho
Well, I reckon people invested in the status quo are less likely to be early adopters of new platforms, so other that you and me, there's not a lot of us here. And I've sworn off political-discussion communities, so you may have to be the one to start that community if it's something you want to see here on lemmy.
maybe exploding-heads.com? is that site still around?
I only know that on Lemmyverse, most of conservatives happily stays on reddit given most committed progressives migrated here. Or may be they go to squabblr, its owner says they are welcomed there.
There are many though, on mastodon-verse if you like twitter-esque experience. There are enough users and instances to hold meaningful conversations.
exploding-heads :)
Thank you for asking this question. I've wanted to do the same, but didn't want to get dogpiled.
I don't even need something strictly conservative, just something not sooooo extremely aligned with Marx and nihilism.
Wow.
Way to engage with the people around you.
Asshole.
what
I think kbin is less leftist then Lemmy and you get the same content. I moderate https://kbin.social/m/Catholic and although it is relatively quiet, we do not get a lot of harassment from the left.
Conservative makes no sense. It's not changing for the sake of lot changing. Liberalism is the same, it's change for changes sake. Both are bad, you change when a policy is a reasonable improvement regardless if its status cuo or not.
Now, I don't know if lemmy is more European or not than reddit, but the left/right leaningness of the gut feeling policies people have, will be very different than what you might expect.
I would however suggest not looking for "your team" groups as that becomes like your local football team, which never leads to good policies. It's just hive mind.
Discuss policies and perhaps join groups like that.
I do not have any direct good suggestions however.
I agree with this part completely.
Where is this coming from though?
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law. — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
It doesn't have anything to do with randomly changing stuff just for change's sake.
To be fair, we can look at the Wikipedia definition for conservatism too and see if there's a more charitable way to interpret it:
Conservatism is a cultural, social, and political philosophy that seeks to promote and to preserve traditional institutions, practices, and values. — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism
I'd say the answer is basically no: this is just an indirect way to say "appeal to tradition fallacy".
If you think about it in terms of species adaptation, then liberalism is what allows our society to integrate changes and conservatism is what helps maintain stability. We need both and in different proportions at different times to adapt to our constantly changing social and physical environment.