How many ingredients does it take to call it a salad?

DoctorWhookah@sh.itjust.works to Asklemmy@lemmy.ml – 240 points –

My significant other ate cucumbers and onion with some ranch. I called it a cucumber onion salad. She says there aren't enough ingredients to call it a salad, because "it takes multiple ingredients". I pointed out she had three and asked what the minimum is. She refuses to answer so I ask Lemmy.

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Lettuce alone is sufficient, but not necessary. As soon as you omit lettuce it takes multiple ingredients.

My nana calls that the “honeymoon salad”, lettuce alone

Ha! You beat me to it. My dad loved that joke.

"Do you have honeymoon salad?"

"What's honeymoon salad?"

"Lettuce alone, without dressing."

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Also the conditions for a salad grow stronger. If there’s lettuce there’s no worry about adding hot ingredients but if it’s a potato salad you’re only making fancy mashed potatoes if it’s hot.

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So teeeeechnically, a salad is a dish composed of mixed ingredients. You could make the argument that you mix any two set of chopped ingredients and bingo bongo, it's a salad.

However, I like to think that dishes' ingredients aren't a taxonomic thing, they're a probabilistic thing. In other words, there's no such thing as "not salad" or "salad", only shades of saladness.

  • Serve it cold? Ok it's saladier

  • It's made up of chopped ingredients? Saladier still

  • Those ingredients are mostly vegetables? Getting pretty saladish

  • They're mixed together? Even more salad like

  • They've got some sort of dressing mixed in? Now it's very likely a salad!

... and so on. To me, your SO'a dish has a pretty high Salad Probability^tm

Is there anyway to convert a Salad Probability^tm into a Salad Factor score?

Give me weights for the coefficients and I'll construct a matrix

Here's some example weights for a salad factor

Lettuce - 10

Spinach - 9

Arugula - 7

Cabbage - 7

Tomato- 6

Carrots- 6

Cucumber - 5

Onion - 4

Olives (black) 4

Anchovies - 1

There are a few missing points in there IMO, like which of your ingredient is cooked, or how are they sliced? Graped carrots rises the score, but cook them and it's less likely to be a salad. Diced radish? Not in my salad, especially not cooked, but thinly sliced raw radish definitely belongs. And don't even get me started on tomatoes.

Damn, I'm not sure the two are compatible then. The salad factor score is meant to be super easy so people don't get overwhelmed by all the possibilities and variations.

What we need is a salad categorizing multilayer neural network

It wouldn't be hard to train on obvious salads, but what about the non obvious ones? Who do we trust to properly label these as salad or not a salad?

We don't! That's the joy of it, just like people do, our algorithm will constantly waffle back and forth and argue with itself over whether these things are salads

I think this is one of those words / concepts where one needs to invoke Wittgenstein's "family resemblance" idea. You're not going to find some exact set of criteria that define what people do and don't consider a salad. They instead have a "family resemblance".

Your probably idea is not a bad way of describing how that works.

I know, I was being humorous but it is in fact the way most categorization works. Very seldom is it a taxonomy; the way we recognize faces, voices, shapes, etc ... it's all probabilistic.

Well, the cube rule of food says anything without a starch/bread is a salad, if you want an absurd authority to point to: https://cuberule.com/

Looks at breakdown of the cube rule: Yeah, okay. That all makes perfect sense.

Looks at examples that follow the cube rule: YOU MONSTERS!!

So steak or chocolate are salads and a salad is a nacho, got it!

I think 1 ingredient can be a salad as long as it's a very salady ingredient.

I would probably still call dressing on just lettuce a salad, although I would say it's an unusually basic one. 3 ingredients definitely counts.

Dressing already needs at least 3

By some definitions of ingredient, I see what you're saying, although it might be a simple vinaigrette with two individually obtainable ingredients. However, OP implied they consider dressing one ingredient in the OP, so I went by identity previous to tossing as opposed to identity at any stage of the process.

Do you make your vinaigrette without salt and pepper and maybe those don't count? The ingredient science is very complex

Do you make your vinaigrette without salt and pepper

I do, actually. For whatever reason I don't like most dressings but I enjoy just olive oil and a nice balsamic.

All you need is lettuce and salt. "Salad" is derived from the latin for salt: sal

Oh i see... sal ad.... ad sal... add salt... That's pretty neat!

Been there and found out that If you dig deep enough almost everything is either a salad or a soup

Soup and salad are the same thing, just with a different ratio of solids to liquids.

I guess it depends on the language, in my native language I think all foods could be defined as either a salad or a soup (even a sandwich is just a kind of soup)

I would argue the minimum number of ingredients is two.

Tuna and mayo?

Tuna and mayo it is.

Ham, cheese, and mayo?

Ham, cheese, and mayo it is.

Ham, cheese, mayo, and some croutons.

Or how about ham, cheese, mayo on some crunchy crusty bread (otherwise known as toast).

Ham and cheese toasted sandwich is now a salad.

Can we first define "salad"?

If it's cold ingredients, mixed together, then wilted iceberg lettuce and a gas station dressing packet is salad.

So two.

It doesn't even have to be cold. Look at pasta salad, or anything with grilled chicken or fresh croutons.

I'm not gonna claim a salad can't be hot, but I think of pasta salads as a cold dish. Maybe it depends where your from.

Potato salad is generally cold too, but there is also hot German potato salad.

German potato salad is served hot. A salad is literally just any ingredients mixed together.

I‘m German and have eaten a lot of potato salad during my entire life. Not once has it been served hot

Not hot but „lauwarm“ or „lukewarm“ is very typical for same day fresh potato salad

At least down here in the south

Can't imagine potato salad with either vinegar or mayo tasting good hot

Something in a bowl with a dressing is salad.

  • Tomatoes + balsamic + olive oil = salad
  • Romaine + Caesar dressing = salad
  • Canned tuna + mayo = salad
  • Cucumber + rice wine vin + sesame oil = salad

Salad is more fun with multiple ingredients, but everything up there is still salad

So by your definition at least two ingredients are required for a salad.

Well, one ingredient is just that ingredient

Potato salad is often just potatoes with chives and Mayonnaise. Your SO is chatting shit imho.

Two ingredients must be present for something to be a salad - a vegetable and a dressing. I make all sorts of salads. Some have lettuce, some don’t. I make salad with just fennel and an oil/vinegar dressing. I make salad with tomatoes & cucumbers with a dressing. What she ate was 100% a salad. This is a weird fight.

I dont do dressings. What do you call 15 ingredients and no dressing? A fryless stir fry? Genuinely curious if there's a word now!

How do you feel about chicken or tuna salad?

I feel like that’s a grey area because it’s called salad but only in the context a product with dressing (the mayo). but it’s not really a salad, it’s just called chicken salad the way Kraft dinner isn’t really a dinner but it could be a dinner. I say if it only has chicken and mayo, that’s not a salad, that’s a sandwich filling. If it has celery, onion, etc, you could make the argument it was salad.

I feel the same way about cheesecake. It’s really more of a pie if anything.

You can make tomato salad with just tomato and onion.

One vegetable and dressing is enough if you need a utensil to eat it. Example: cucumber salad.

I grew up with the notion that chopped tomato sprinkled with coarse salt is a salad.

Take lettuce for example.

If you put a lot of lettuce in a bowl.. What do you have? A Salad?

NO. You have a bowl of lettuce.

You put a second object in the lettuce bowl (Crouton, dressing, another veg, whatever), Now do you have a Salad?

Yes. You have a salad.

There is no maximum ingredient count for a salad, but you must have a minimum of two items for a salad.

I want to agree with you, but I think the minimum number of ingredients has to be three. Otherwise, the unbelievably sad bowl of iceberg lettuce and Italian dressing that was served to me would qualify as a salad and I simply cannot allow that to be.

Yes, but the argument wasnt for a non-sad salad.

It was just, how many ingredients before it becomes a salad. obviously you would want a proper salad with more delicious and good things in it, but that the same way that a slice of bread between two slices of bread is a bread sandwich, so is a bowl of lettuce and some dressing a salad.

2 minium?

  • A base, such as lettuce, pasta, boiled potato or rice.
  • Some salad-worthy veggie or fruit.

I would say the important distinction is in presentation. Was it a bowl of onion and cucumber mixed together with ranch? If so salad. Was it a plate with a pile of cucumber and a pile of onion, with ranch for dipping? If so crudites.

Does pouring the dip over the crudites transform it into a salad? So french fries are crudite? Does that mean cheese fries are a type of salad? I'm not waiting for your answer before getting my daily dose of salad in.

How I choose to read this:

Poutine is a salad.

Dieticians hate this one trick to make salads taste good!

I think pouring the dip over would make it a salad.

I don't know about cheese fries being a salad. I think a salad needs at least 2 ingredients not including dressing/garnish. So you'd need to do cheese fries with like fried peppers too make it a warm potato salad.

Crudités is French for raw things, so french fries aren't crudités. Unless they're raw... ugh.

Carrot salad is just shredded carrots with dressing made from mustard mixed with oil, but I'd challenge you to take a bite of that and tell me it's not a salad.

Now mix up uncut baby carrots, celery sticks, cherry tomatoes, and cucumber slices. I'll give you a bowl of ranch, and if you pour it in try to eat it like a salad instead of using them as dip, there's something wrong with you

Salads aren't about ingredient counts, they're about preparation

One. But it needs to be a vegetable AND have dressing AND be chopped into bite sized parts AND be raw.

If any of the previous conditions isn't met, then you need at least two ingredients.

So, yes, cucumbers and onion with ranch most definitely is a salad.

If it’s dressed and a vegetable, is it just a really wet one?

I don't know, is it chopped or whole?

If i chop up a cucumber and throw it in a bowl with some vinegarette, I call it a cucumber salad.

If I cut a slice of pizza in half and add ranch, can I also call that a salad?

I call that a bowl of cucumber

tomato, tomatoe. Not that I'd ever put tomatoes in a cucumber salad. That's heathen shit.

Oxford dictionary says:

Originally derived from the Latin sal for salt, meaning something dipped into salt. Now normally a dish of uncooked vegetables; either a mixed salad or just one item (commonly lettuce or tomato).

If you're telling me grapes in a bowl doesn't count as fruit salad, then I guess I've never had a salad.

Merriam Webster says :

*any of various usually cold dishes: such as

a: raw greens (such as lettuce) often combined with other vegetables and toppings and served especially with dressing

b: small pieces of food (such as pasta, meat, fruit, or vegetables) usually mixed with a dressing (such as mayonnaise) or set in gelatin*

As such, even just cucumber would suffice.

Edit: in dutch, a "salade" has to accompanied by a dressing or vinaigrette, thus very much limiting what a salad is.

Just cucumber with yoghurt, some chopped dill, salt pepper and olive oil is a great salad. Add lots of garlic and it's a simple Zaziki Tsaziki Zatziki greek garlic dip.

But that’s six ingredients! And you have to chop the cucumber as well. Ain’t nobody got time for that!

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Have a look at the bottle of ranch dressing, and count all the chemicals in there. Is the count of ingredients necessary for a salad now OK?

Does "word salad" count?

Otherwise, 2, a vegetable and a dressing. Because nobody would call a bag of carrot sticks a salad.

Is dipping carrots in ranch a salad?

Heterogenous chunks served around or below room temperature are a salad. To be heterogenous, there must be at least two different things, so... two is the minimum, dressing doesn't count towards the total.

Cucumber slices with tajín? Not a salad.

Cucumber, tomato, and red onion dressed with tahini? Jerusalem salad.

Tuna mixed with mayonnaise? Not tuna salad.

Tuna mixed with celery and mayonnaise? Tuna salad (barely).

Lime jello? Not a salad.

Lime jello cut into cubes mixed with orange jello cut into cubes? Jello salad.

Cranberries stewed with spices and sugar? Not a salad, cranberry sauce.

Cranberry sauce mixed with mandarin oranges, cut pineapple, and walnuts, set into a bundt-shaped jello mold? Cranberry salad.

I think the temperature doesn't work as part of the definition. If you've never had it, Taco Salad is served hot (the meat at least is, and usually the tortilla bowl is as well).

I've had it several times, and that's an excellent counterpoint. I'll reconsider my definition.

Damn, now I want taco salad.

I would argue that Jello cubes in whipped cream could be a basic Jello salad. That's two ingredients, but it's also arguably an instance of a one-ingredient salad, since the whipped cream dressing doesn't count.

If I heat pasta salad in the microwave, is it no longer a salad? Is a leftover portion of pasta a salad before it is reheated? I'm not sure temperature is a requirement.

Also I have to question calling two flavours of Jello "different things", let alone calling 2 flavours of gelatine a salad, but I know Americans are more liberal with the word salad than other places.

Where I am you will rarely see the word salad used in relation to dishes that don't contain some raw chopped vegetables, especially leafy green ones. Or it's the dish's imported original name, like potato salad. Fruit salad is the one exception to that, I think.

I could see an argument that past a certain temperature, you are now just eating pasta.

Is a white chocolate macadamia nut cookie a salad

No, because it's in a rigid matrix. If you tossed white chocolate and macadamia nuts with melted butter and sprink it with sugar, that you could call a salad with a straight face.

To bolster your point I regularly make something I call cucumber onion salad with cucumber, white onion, and oil w herbs, salt and pepper. To me, it's a salad if it focuses on seasoned raw ingredients, esp vegetables, served cold. There's also the confusion over things like chicken/tuna/egg deli salads focused on being eaten as a sandwich or w crackers, and Midwest "salads" for which all rules seem to be moot except that it's likely served cold.

Cut is as a prep step and it becomes a salad.

For me a salad is minimum of two uncooked ingredients.

What about potato salad, noodle salad and similar dishes containing cooked components?

I mean when you put chopped iceberg lettuce and tomatoes, it's a salad... So... Two?

I would lettuce + cucumber, too. Begrudgingly, but I would accept it.

My girlfriend calls lettuce salad. A bowl of lettuce she calls a salad

I do the same thing. It's green and healthy... That's clearly a salad.

There is a centuries-old simple salad recipe involving just cucumbers, onions, vinegar, sugar, salt, pepper.

Anyone saying you can't have a salad out of cucumber, onions, and dressing...is wrong.

Or the centuries-old salad recipe is wrong?

I have no opinion on this matter. I am merely being contradictory.

I've often had spinach, some shredded cheese, and a vinaigrette and called it salad.

Potato and Mayo = potato salad. So I would say two is the minimum. A bowl of lettuce on its own is not a salad. A salad is a classification of coke, (mainly) vegetable based dishes.

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Two ingredients and a "dressing" is a salad.

If no dressing, then three ingredients or more.

Also, chicken caeser salad is a salad, and it has starch/bread.

Also, chicken caeser salad is a salad, and it has starch/bread.

Deconstructed sandwich

I know people who's primary salad is just tomatoes and cucumbers with nothing else... no salt, no pepper, no onion, no dressing, no oil... I still consider it a salad, just not a good one.

Nachos are just upgraded taco salad.

I went to a party where everyone was supposed to bring a salad and vote on the best one. I brought the nachos. The vote was unanimous.

I generally agree, and good insight! I think though that a distinction for me is that taco salad would have a bunch of lettuce.

I grew up eating green salads without dressing, because the dressings my parents favored were so salty and acidic they hurt my mouth. Lettuce, sliced tomatoes, carrots, celery, maybe cucumber.

These days I usually go for a "Mediterranean" salad with greens, olives, feta or similar cheese, cucumber, tomato, bell peppers, herbs, and a splash of olive oil.

If you're making it for a group of people, finding a good mix of vegetables for a salad involves excluding the ones that someone doesn't like. I don't like zucchini or asparagus. One of my housemates can't abide celery. One friend doesn't like jicama. Another friend is okay with red bell pepper but can't abide green bell pepper. Making a salad everyone enjoys seems to be partly about getting all these preferences right and then balancing what's left.

I talked with a expert (my one friend who knows how to use a knife) and the conclusion is: any vegetable that is served in a different plate.

So if I put my fries on a seperate plate it's a salad? Good to know

Fries aren't a vegetable though :(

Potatoes come from a plants roots and should be considered a vegetable. And fries are made of potatoes. Therefore I say it’s a salad.

But not all plant products are vegetables. Take wood, sugar, or coconut oil as examples.

According to Wikipedia:

The potato is a starchy food, a tuber of the plant Solanum tuberosum and is a root vegetable native to the Americas.

They are usually sold with the other vegetables in a supermarket because they are a root vegetable.

Let’s stop arguing and just enjoy fries instead

My favourite salad is good lettuce, sliced onion, salt, red wine vinegar, and olive oil. Also cucumber and onion is multiple ingredients.

A salad is at least one ingredient chopped up and tossed with some kind of dressing. This basically requires at least two ingredients. One chopped solid and one liquid dressing. Could be cucumbers and vinegar. Could be lettuce with ranch dressing. Obviously salads with more ingredients than two or three are probably gonna be better, but I think you could call cucumbers and onions chopped up and tossed with ranch a salad for sure.

Going by the Wikipedia first paragraph definition any two items mixed together can be a salad.

A salad is a dish consisting of mixed ingredients, frequently vegetables. They are typically served chilled or at room temperature, though some can be served warm. Condiments and salad dressings, which exist in a variety of flavors, are often used to enhance a salad.

I'd say at least 5. I have had many great salads and I have also had salads that were just bowls of lettuce...😂

It's a well-known fact that the "L" in "salad" stands for lettuce. So no lettuce, no salad.

Two veggies and some type of sauce is a salad. A proper salad has a variety of veggies, meat, cheese, crunchy bits and sauce.