Not exactly "stole"; the author was fine about the code being used in this way. What they were upset about is the lack of attribution and communication.
Isn't this what licenses are for?
The license was Apache 2.0, and there was a tiny bit of attribution...just enough to cover the license requirements.
On Windows 10 too. I always just download from the website or store but I recently experienced the pretty fun of updating my apps over CLI for some reason
Which is something you will need to do to not accept their privacy invasive terms and conditions that you have to accept before using the bloated data harvesting browser.
Dude, nothing is more suspicious than when a developer of a supposedly free app nags you to use their app. Why do they even want you to use Edge so badly? You're never going to pay any money for it, this screams "give us your data, we want to sell it".
I don't use Edge BECAUSE they keep begging and throwing ads at me for it. It's off putting, desperate and exactly what I don't want.
I don't use it because the Edge splash screen is chokka ads and news stories I don't want.
I don't use Edge because I find Bing annoying, and prefer duck duck go and google in that order, and I'm sick of constantly being nagged to use shit I don't want.
Microsoft get it in your head, you are an operating system. Your job is to Operate MY system. Do that well. And by all means build more software, make it optional and installable by choice. If it's good and works for me and not for you I will use it.
I don't use Chrome either. It no longer works for me. It now works for Google first.
Ive recently downgraded Firefox from browser number 1 to number 2. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not the best.
Currently I'm enjoying Opera because it feels fresh and zippy and works for me , but I'm not loyal. Edge if you do good, maybe I will use you too. But stop your pathetic shit.
I used Edge since the beginning, until they decided to fill it with bloat. It's getting worse than Chrome. Now I'm using Firefox that is still a browser instead of an application trying to replace all applications.
This is basically all proprietary software đ.
It serves the company first and foremost. The user's needs are an afterthought.
Microsoft is a cloud provider these days, Windows doesn't make enough money, that's why they are desperate to monetise already paying customers.
Azure/entra or whatever the fuck they call it this week is where the real money comes from
I share the same sentiment. The push of having Bing crap all over the place with the inability to make the browser more vanilla is just a turn off for me. As a former and technically current Chrome user, I have found the overall user interface to be pleasant and easy to use. At work, Chrome is the preferred browser so I continue to use it there but for personal use, I moved to Firefox. Itâs definitely taken an adjustment to get used to a few small differences but I havenât hit anything that breaks my experience to need to go back to Chrome yet after a few months on Firefox. The ability to customize Firefox to the level of detail thatâs possible is pretty impressive. While I donât go crazy with customizations because I feel it potentially adds to future tech debt I donât want to deal with as things change in Firefox, I like having the option.
switching to Linux + Firefox was the best thing ive ever did
I wish I could but I couldn't get steam games to work on it.
Anything that's steam deck certified should run flawlessly on Linux
What was you doing?
Other than enabling proton for all games in the settings, you shouldnât have to do anything else to get steam games working.
Well, unless the game itself uses anti-cheat and the developer hasnât enabled support for Linux, anyway.
Been running only Linux for 3 years and the only time I couldn't get a game to work was trying to play some 15 year old RTS games cross platform with friends.
Based on the massive about of replys I feel like it was user error which would be highly likely. I will give it another try.
Which games, and how long ago did you try? Proton has come a long way in the last few years.
I tried for about 5 hrs on Pop OS. Should I be using something else?
havent touched windows in like 2 years and only once had a problem with games not running
I've just converted my last Windows PC, meaning my gaming desktop, to Linux, now I need to figure out how to run SOLIDWORKS on it .. thinking a VM with GPU passthrough, but I'm a bit scared of the endeavor, despite having been a regular Linux user for I guess almost two decades.
I am using a 20gbps ssd with windows to go on it for my windows install so that when I plug in the ssd I boot to windows and when I restart and unplug I boot to linux, might be a solution for you?
I have kept windows on a separate ssd, but I find dual booting very disruptive, I don't want to reboot to change between tasks, I've tried it already in the past and it sucks.
This is why I am unfortunately back on windows. I use a couple programs everyday, and unfortunately they do not run on Linux. And there is not a usable alternative either.
I was rebooting to windows, doing what I had to, and then rebooting again. But it is just so disruptive and not user friendly.
This ^
Iâve tried dual booting multiple times over the last few years, but always end up with windows as the primary because restarting my computer 6+ times a day got so disruptive. Until the windows only software moves Iâm going to be on Windows.
Have you tried creating a windows VM inside of Linux?
I haven't tried side loading windows to be fair. I was trying to move away completely from the windows environment.
Wine?
Eh good luck with that. SOLIDWORKS sits firmly at the GARBAGE rating on the Wine AppDB
SOLIDWORKS sounds like it works perfectly, or it is not living up to its name and you should get a refund.
Use RDP apps to the cloud or something.
What does SOLIDWORKS do?
CAD/CAM, I design 3d parts with it
Have you tried Lutris?
No, I haven't. Would that make any difference? It's not a game
Perhaps I have misunderstood, but I thought there were some cases where you could use it for applications that aren't games.
But there's a good possibility that I'm wrong.
What was the problem?
Are the games that you play reported to work in Linux? Check out ProtonDB and search for some games you care about. Itâs possible they donât work but based off user reports, most likely theyâll work okay out of the box and work well with some tinkering.
Thanks for this info I will have to check.
Not seeing the option "Because fuck Microsoft"
In all seriousness tho, I use Firefox because it's not reskinned Chrome.
"I prefer giving my data to Google"
"Firefox"
That would be the Cancel button, because anything else would be giving Microsoft free data.
âMy reason is not listedâ
"Microsoft Edge runs on the same technology as Chrome, with the added trust of Microsoft"
Wow. If there ever was a reason to run, this is it.
To Firefox, sure. But if you're on Windows and your preferred alternative is Chrome you really might as well stay with Edge and benefit from the integration into Microsoft's ecosystem. Either way your data is being harvested.
Edge canât be anticompetitive if no one is using it
Imo asking why you leave is fine, many programs and extensions do it. The problem is that you never chose Edge but still have to use it to download another browser!
remember in the 90s or 00s when Microsoft had that antitrust case, and when you loaded up IE, it asked you what browser you wanted? We need that again, along with the antitrust case.
Why are you downloading chrome? You are supposed to download Firefox.
"Didn't you lose a lawsuit over this in the 90s?"
They are BASICALLY the same, only difference is whom they send your data to.
I'm not trying to defend Google here, but I use Edge every day for work, and it's definitely not as good as Chrome or Firefox. Both Chrome and Edge are based on Chromium, so core functionality is the same, but Edge has no shortage of crappy annoying changes that make it frustrating to use.
preach brother, firefox always looking for ways to improve and offer you a chance to take control to do it your way.
The tragedy of edge is that it is technically a fantastic browser for windows but made by Microsoft.
Just thinking about the engineers that built such great memory management and security features that no other browser has just to have the marketing guy come in and say 'yeah put these three layers of bloat on top oh and don't forget to add the new backdoor we need...' only to see that all their work is basically a tech meme...
I guess they must get home and cry while hugging their stock options and 300k/y contract the poor guys...
Those guys all got Balmered or something because Edge is now Chromium based.
Started daily driving Linux on a laptop 20 years ago. Moved my desktop to it by 2007. I haven't ran Windows at home except in a VM (5+years ago) since around 2009. I'm much happier with the quirks of Linux than I am using Microsoft products.
At this point Linux desktops have maintained a more stable UI, quirks and all. The main thing is the freedom of choice. If I want a standard start menu/toolbar interface that just works, KDE. Classic lightweight look and feel? XFCE. Stripped down tiling WM? i3. Then there is also Gnome Shell if you're into that sort of thing ;)
However I know for certain that next year I won't be forced to use a UI that totally scraps functionality I've been used to for 20 years and changes everything for the sake of change.
MS changes things without giving the customer a choice, from the Ribbon interface that started in Office, to the tile based launcher of Windows 8 and now the awful start menu of 11.
I have a windows partition for my tax software and last year I managed to run it under Wine, so haven't booted it in a year. Gaming under Linux is great now thanks to Steam/Proton!
Windows is just one big advertisement jfc and M$FT the audacity to charge $200 for it?! đŽââ ïž
It is a marketing OS for sure.
15 years ago I used to set up Linux HPC systems and we did a windows one for a testing project. Back then it was sort of a head scratcher, but I could see some use in it. Now? I donât know about that.
I prefer to leave edge never clicked by using winget. It comes default on Win 11 (Most likely new install, not an advertisement for that dumpster fire). For windows 10 you can use the Microsoft Store to install AppInstaller which will get you winget. Winget is a MS product.
I mainly like doing this because Edge does a bunch of setup when clicked for the first time. This avoids all that.
winget install --id=Google.Chrome -e
Or you can ever do slightly prevent the backslide in marketshare for Firefox.
winget install --id=Mozilla.Firefox -e
Just run powershell or windows terminal and use those commands and you can leave edge where it belongs.
Since I hardly use the ms store, you can get rid of it: winget source delete msstore and then just run winget install chrome or winget install firefox
Winget is pretty cool, but I'm not sure how it works exactly. The package sourcing, like anything Microsoft does is a bit sus and I'm worried it's crowdsourced.
It's great for passively checking for new versions of most software you got installed, won't argue with that.
It's like a more curated AUR. Winget looks up the manifest (PKGBUILD equivalent) from its repo and executes its instructions. It usually downloads an installer, then executes it silently. The binaries may or may not be validated by Winget, and are mostly blobs, so exercise as much caution as with the AUR.
Could also use scoop, but people get a little nervous running random powershell scripts off the internet. I have no fear of it. Scoop is also excellent for people with a little more tech savvy.
Install. Linux.
Switch to Linux, runaway from the windows shit and depravity.
I was playing Baldur's Gate 3 shortly after release and got a popup from Bing over the game asking if I wanted to enable Bing in Chrome. I immediately blocked bing.com on my network. Never looked back.
What the fuck
Because Microsoft is so damn pushy. Literally anytime they ask my feedback is that they need to just fuck off from my PC and do the bare minimum that I require them to do. I don't need all the bullshit they throw on there to try and get more and more of my data.
Microsoft: Should we invest time and energy into allowing a basic feature in the W11 taskbar, like the ability to ungroup items? No, better divert resources into pushing our shitty browser and making polls!
Dont forget they fucked their own BASIC search feature by making it assume you want to BING websearch when you're trying to quick locate a file on your computer
Seriously, the number of times I type something into the desktop search and want web search results is exactly zero.
I'm actually alright with this, which seems to be an unpopular opinion. It seems totally sensible for them to ask why you don't want to use Edge and would rather use Chrome.
If we want to prevent monopolies, we need healthy competition. If Microsoft improves Edge based on this user feedback to create an actually good product, then we all win. It means that if Firefox starts to pull the shit that Google is doing, we have a solid alternative.
Of course the manner in which Microsoft does this matters a lot, but the actual concept itself is a good one.
I'm actually alright with this, which seems to be an unpopular opinion. It seems totally sensible for them to ask why you don't want to use Edge and would rather use Chrome.
I wish for Microsoft to mind their business when I download another browser. A web developer or someone excersizing their freedom of choice should not need to deal with petty and sorry looking surveys.
On the other hand, it is fine to ask how the browser experience is like but not this.
If we want to prevent monopolies, we need healthy competition. If Microsoft improves Edge based on this user feedback to create an actually good product, then we all win. It means that if Firefox starts to pull the shit that Google is doing, we have a solid alternative.
Unfortunately, this privacy invasive feature goes against this concept because it already made the browser worse. Also, Edge is chromium based. Mozilla, Apple's Safari, and Chromium are the only true browser choices. Edge may bring some UX features, but they are data harvesting focused and not the core browser mechanisms. Microsoft is taking the work Google, and the chromium community puts into the code base and then running their own data harvesting UX on top. It is not a "alternative" browser choice, ever.
With Microsoft's track record, this survey is not to improve the browser but to harvest more data to pinpoint your identity and behavior to sell to advertisers and data analysts. So the "manner" Microsoft does this is more of a reason for not wanting to have this.
Yeah that's fair. If they just open a tab that says they're sorry to see you go but would appreciate feedback, that'd be fine. Trying to block the download to say that, not cool at all
I think it's a conflict of interest to leverage their position as an OS provider to do this. If they want feedback they can pay a market research firm like a normal company. God knows they have the money.
Its the browser that pops it up. Go download Firefox on Chrome and the same thing happens.
My problem with all of it is, they've built that shit into the browser. That means baked into the browser, it is watching what I'm doing and doing things on its own based on what I do.
It leaves the door open for them to bother me/phone home anytime I do something that isn't in their interests. Are they going to add in similar things for me looking for windows, office, GitHub, or Xbox alternatives?
I feel like a lot of users won't use edge because of spite.
It's intrusive and manipulative stuff like this which has angered a lot of people.
Admittedly, this is one of the more harmless reactions.
Edge: "Nobody likes me. :( "
Microsoft: "Don't worry. We will make them like you. >:] "
Itâs none of Microsoftâs business if Iâm using their web browser or not. They shouldnât be blocking my use of another product just because I donât like theirs.
If they're that crazy over their browser, how much other shit are you sending them you don't know about?
But they're not, you can still download and use any browser you like.
They are throwing unnecessary blockades (the article mentions 4 popups/warnings that Edge is just as good as Chrome).
The competition between Chrome and Edge is very shallow, they're two slightly altered and heavily branded reskins of chromium, the real competition would be Firefox and it's forks (mullvad, waterfox, librewolf) (and maybe webkit aka safari) Vs chromium but there's no big corporation behind those (except safari, but it has many of the problems that big corpo chromium browsers have) , so they're struggling a lot.
Microsoft is synonymous with "healthy competition!" /s
Edge collects your "ctrl-f" in-page searches. Fuck that with a cactus.
I assure you that no percent of the people this poll is aimed at make decisions because of that. They don't even know about it.
Microsoft: Possibly the biggest motivator in people switching to Linux or MacOS.
I'm about to jump ship to Linux. I have been a Windows user since it first came out. I was DOS savvy before that, but Microsoft has just been getting worse and worse. They have never made a web browser that is worth a teaspoon of salt being high on the list of reasons they suck. Buuuuut, it's what all the software runs on. Now, though, they have gotten to be such bullies about forced updates and more that I am done. I'm not gonna lie, it's a little intimidating to have to start all over again, especially since Linux expects you to be very hands on with everything and I have let a looooot of my savvy slip by the wayside, but I feel like I've been forced at this point.
Something about boiling a frog
Unless you heavily depend on Adobe or a very niche proprietary software you'll be fine. Install something user friendly like Linux Mint or Ubuntu and you'll be fine. If you stick to these distros, Linux is going to be really really easy.
Well, in the case of Linux, also free. Many years ago I built an HTPC to run a media center at home and I got it all done and I realized that I didn't actually HAVE install media (or a spare license) for windows and it kinda irritated me that a legitimate license was going to cost me like $100 for a computer that wouldn't ever do anything but stream media from my own server. I had heard of linux before and I really wanted to make sure that my hardware worked without having to figure out how to actually buy windows and wound up installing ubuntu to test it out. I was surprised to discover that once installed it wasn't really all that different from Windows and decided then and there that this would be perfectly adequate for my HTPC and wound up using linux on various machines ever since. (I always have an old thinkpad running some flavor of linux for most of my general computing).
Like a lot of folks, I think the only thing I use windows for is working remotely and gaming (although, that is less and less the case since I got a steam deck and linux support for gaming has gotten SO much better over the last ten years).
I was surprised to find that gaming on linux just works. Valve has done a wonderful job in improving proton.
Proton is so good now that there are games that have native Linux versions that run better if you play the Windows version with proton.
I virtual machine Linux these days. There is just too much effort in getting everything moved over from streaming video to games. No I don't want to see a tutorial.
Linux for regular stuff, Microsoft for entertainment. Except porn. I still need Linux for porn because I am not insane
Been Linux full time since February. 100% because of the bullshit MS is pulling. Hard pass.
On a side note, Linux is fantastic now, all my games work, it doesn't everything I need/want it to do with ease.
both of them are fighting over the exclusive rights to your browsing data and ad-impressions.
As someone once said to me. Microsoft is not something you like, but is something you have to withstand due to Enterprise use it so much, and have so many users.
But when it comes to the browser, then you have to follow the standard for HTML, and suddenly you can choose something else.
"have to follow the standard for HTML"
Websites have historically been so godawful about complying with web standards that browsers had no choice but to support grossly non-standard code. Which then became standard. Now the vast majority of the web only works because of browser implementation details. So it's Chromium and Gecko and nothing else ever again.
So download firefox! Anyway, edge is a reskinned chrome, like nearly all chrome based browsers...
Microsoft, if they weren't run by morons could capitalize HARD on Google's fuckery.
Hey, we've got the chromium browser but we won't be following suit with googles anti ad blocking bullshit!
This would convert a bunch of people, including me. And with me goes pretty much 30 people in my range (family / friends) since I setup their shit anyway.
But, no Microsoft is just licking Google's asshole and applying lipstick on the chrome turd and wondering why no-one wants it.
Might I add, they keep adding so much useless junk to their browser hopping that any of it will stick, and it's just bloat and more bloat.
Edge is going full IE6. The Greeks were right, time is a fucking circle, not a line.
But Microsoft don't want you to block ads either, so they'd never do that anyway.
If I can't use FF or one of its derivatives I will literally use edge just in spite of chrome, and do everything possible to not use chrome
I recommend Ungoogled Chromium if you have to pick a Chromium derivative. It's a solid browser with the spyware removed, rather than taped over and exchanged with Microsoft's own.
Is edge based off of chrome?
Yes, at this point the choice is who gets to spy on you.
Yes, but they replaced the Google spyware with the Microsoft one (as you can easily see from the behavior when downloading Chrome)
It's based on Chromium.
So there's no spyware to be taped over?
Well, there's a bit of work to do. See Ungoogled Chromium for an example of a stripped-down Chromium.
Not an easy question. Chromuim by default has pre-made blobs of code from Google that cannot be opened/inspected. We don't know if Microsoft has replaced or excised those blobs from Edge.
Ungoogled Chromium is a community project that replaces those blobs with code we can see amd audit, but again we don't know if Microsoft builds off Ungoogled Chromium or just Chromium, because Edge itself is not open source.
You can't blame them for wanting to know. It's a major market, and they're getting their asses kicked. If I had to pick one, I'd pick Edge over Chrome, so it's actually an interesting question anyway.
I switched to chrome just to try it out years ago, and then I probably would have switched to edge when it replaced explorer just to try that out, but Microsoft just got so pushy trying to convince me to use it and forcing it as default and little notifications about how it's the best that I just refuse to use it out of spite now.
I think that the problem here is that Edge inject the poll in a web page, served from a site that is not from Microsoft, not that they asked it.
I would maybe understand that they asked when installing Chrome, or if was from a page from Microsoft. What's next ? Ask because I use bank A instead of bank B ?
I think the number one answer is just that for so long people have heard not to use MS's browser and most people have no clue one way or the other so they just follow the herd. (Not insulting them, there is no possible way for anyone to be intimately informed about every single topic and so for things you don't care one way or the other, might as well follow word of mouth)
picking between a turd sandwich and a giant douche, what a decision to make. Firefox all the way, nothing stinky happening in that direction, no need to just pick between the two because it will always be NEITHER
Do they really think it being a Microsoft product means people trust it more?
The entire world runs on Microsoft products. They're a very highly trusted company.
In this instance, Microsoft has tried everything but pay people to use Edge, but IE burned enough bridges that they're struggling to regain market share. This flies in the face of how much trust consumers generally put in Microsoft products, and thus makes sense to ask.
Yeah, they're really struggling to get their reputation back after letting IE drag it down. I honestly never really used Edge until I started my new job last month. The system is locked to Chrome or Edge and I decided to give Edge a try since it would actually let me enable dark mode where Chrome is locked by system administrators for themes. It's actually a good browser. I just never trusted it because it was a MS browser. But I prefer Firefox to all of them but that's just a personal preference.
Plus Edge has support for vertical tabs built in natively. It's wild to me that horizontal tabs are still the default, using up valuable vertical screen space and having illegible names when you've got a certain number of tabs open, when vertical tabs are an option. So props to Edge for offering that.
I never really got into vertical tabs at all. Although I never have that many tabs open that I really need that space efficiency. I can never understand how people have more than like 8 tabs open.
I have to use edge at work and the vertixle tabs is my favourite thing about it.
I often need lots of tabs open and finding rhem is difficult ao i have an autohiding verticle tab bar and i put my tabs into groups which i name and collapse so i can see what each tab is as alot of tabs have the same title as part of my job involves the use of a service desk.
I wish other browsers had it.
I've never really needed to have many tabs open so I don't really understand that struggle. I might have it more with my new job in commercial lending where our loan origination system is a web based app so maybe I'll need to have a lot more tabs open for that. If so, I could see myself switching to vertical tabs but I've just never had a need to have more than like 10 open at a time and that's usually only when I'm shopping around and comparing products/reviews.
The entire world runs on Microsoft products.
Except for all the Mac/iOS Android/Chrome stuff. Or NASA, the NY stock exchange, 50% of servers, Federal Aviation Administration, U.S. Department of Defense, Nuclear submarines etc. those run on Linux. But other than those yes, the entire world lol
Yes. Aside from them, about 5 billion other people use Microsoft products.
This isn't fanboy shit dude this is just reality.
The latest estimate of how many people that use the internet at all is around 5 billion. Where did you get that number?
Everything but make Edge a good browser, you mean.
Edge is a perfectly cromulent browser that fills the average user's needs just fine and has some great additional cruft such as their vertical tabs and Collections implementation. It's not 2013 anymore. Why people still go out of their way to get Chrome of all things is an important question for Microsoft to ask. Just living off of Chrome's literal crumbs is worthwhile to Microsoft, imagine if they actually had a marketshare that reflected the two products capabilities. People obviously don't do it for safety or privacy or functionality reasons, and Microsoft will literally pay you to use Bing. They probably wonder what the fucking issue is at this point.
I think many people don't feel they have an alternative. That's not the same as trust.
With browsers, they have a choice, despite MS's best efforts.
People don't have an alternative. Microsoft will choose for them at the next Windows update and pick auto MS Edge as the default browser again. They are solving problems...
Yer, they need more anti monopoly stuff against them. As do Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon, etc. They are have their own thiefdoms.
It's worth noting that this is mainly an issue on the cheapest Windows licenses. On Pro editions and Enterprise editions you can prevent the hijacking via Group Policy, which is not available to Home licenses.
Please note that I'm not saying I'm okay with this. I'm just trying to explain why there's a bunch of people out there who don't have to deal with that mess (like myself).
I meanâŠMicrosoft is paying people to use Edge with Microsoft Rewards. Itâs not a lot, but you can net a few cents each day with their Edge exclusive tasks.
The entire world runs on Microsoft products. Theyâre a very highly trusted company.
I don't think the entire world. Only about 5% of the people at the last three companies I've worked at had Windows machines, and most of them in accounting. And the only part of the software stack that was Windows were QA machines. Until recently I hadn't used a Windows machine for anything other than gaming since 2009.
And while they're still a surprising 48% of the server market, that's not "the entire world." Maybe it's because I'm a Mac fanboy from back in the day, but I never trusted Microsoft. And used to spell their name with a dollar sign.
Idk man Iâve worked with hundreds of companies of all shapes and sizes as a consultant and Iâve never once seen one that used non-windows workstations with the only exception being Macs used in software development. And Iâm also fairly certain that the Microsoft server market share would be much, MUCH higher if you didnât count web servers. Web servers are the only type of server Iâve seen be Linux in the majority. Most web service companies Iâve worked with even had Windows servers working behind their Linux web servers and load balancers. Like a ratio of 10-20:1
I say this as somebody who hates Microsoft with a passion and would rather work in an all-Linux shop but a non-Microsoft enterprise just sounds like a unicorn.
Then, not counting when I was freelancing, I've found three unicorns. There were so few Windows machines around it frequently became a problem where devs or support had to have someone in accounting test something.
Yeah I could see it if they were an all-Mac environment in a small office that was tiny enough to not need Active Directory. Even then Mac desktops have like 20% desktop market share so thatâd still be impressive that you got a Mac environment 3 times in a row.
Linux has like 3% of the desktop market, that would be pretty close to unbelievable.
Do they do the same if you download Firefox? I remember using IE exclusively to download FF immediately after installing XP, Win 7, 10 or whatever it was.
Yeah. I too have had some great times with Microsoft browsers over the years...
Yeah, I've made some great memories with Microsoft browsers.
At least there's a route to use Microsoft's browser and other software they bundle to get another browser on the system.
I remember on the classic Mac, Apple didn't bundle a decompression program for quite some time. Files on the Mac didn't just consist of a single lump of data, but could also have a resource fork, which had structured data. Executables were a format that had to have data in that resource fork. Which meant that you had a boostrapping problem -- you had no executable on the computer that could download and reconstruct a usable executable, so you first needed to obtain -- on some form of removable media -- software, like Stuffit Expander or similar -- capable of constructing an executable from downloaded data.
Linux equivalent: Imagine if AppImageD pops up asking for your opinion and feedback on AppImages whenever you visit Flathub or Snapcraft.
If I was Microsoft, I'd wanna know too. After all, it's a race for every single one of our data points, and then some.
Either way, you gotta admit it's ironically funny that Microsoft wants to keep/poach Chrome users into their own... wait for it... Chromium-based browser.
If I was Microsoft I would be investing in a some market that no one has clear dominance in. Right now they are trying to manage inconvenience. Making it harder and harder to not use their product. This strategy never works unless the government backs you up. They are trying to be like Comcast. You want to be like Apple. You want people to pay a premium for what they consider the best.
It's why their approach is failing too. They aren't offering any technical benefits, they are just trying to get more of your data for themselves.
If I was Microsoft, Iâd wanna know too.
It is fine to want to know... it is just a question of how do you ask
What happens when you try to download Firefox?
Angels sing.
I just tested and none of the pop-ups appear when searching "download Firefox"
They know most people who don't know one way or the other are downloading chrome just because that's what they heard to do. They also know anyone downloading firefox is doing so for a reason and won't be dissuaded by pop-ups.
I.e. Microsoft is looking to build an antitrust suit against Google.
It Microsoft were forced to decouple internet exploder from Windows then Google should be forced to decouple chrome from android.
A fresh android ( and iOS ) install should present a dialogue asking the user which browser they want. The companies should not be allowed to integrate browser specific features into the OS.
You, and nobody can stop them from doing so. It turns out that web UI technologies are very easily and conveniently usable for OS GUI features as well. Browsing a file system? Web UI. Navigating settings and configurations pages? Web UI.
And these browsers are open-source. Chromium. Edge is a derivative of Chromium, so is Chrome. The fact that Google controls the Chromium upstream matters not at all, because anyone is free to fork it and modify to their needs.
Freedom is a double-edged sword, but this is many folds better than locked-in proprietary.
Of course they can be forced to provide a browser selection screen when installing the OS. What are you even talking about technology for, this is a regulatory issue.
I wouldn't turn this into a Firefox vs chrome(ium) fight,but why would anyone use a reskinned chrome(edge) over the original one? Not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious.
Edge's vertical tabs and splitscreen are killer features that I cannot replicate without issues on firefox or chrome.
I've been using tree style tab on firefox for maybe almost 10 years and rarely have any issue unless the firefox update broke it which also rarely happens
I'm using different vertical tabs (forget the name), have the top hidden, except if I hover over specific region, have various identities (containers?) Implementwd within the vertical sidebar and two profiles that show as a separate app on the toolbar.
Firefox is great.
Tried and just not as seamless and edge. The groupings and simplicity is killer. Currently running a variant of tst on Firefox and it is just ok.
I've not used the in browser splitscreen, but can't you just use the window snapping feature built into the Windows OS itself for that?
Winkey+any arrow key
Minimize, Maximize, snap to left or right half of screen.
The issue with that is then the vertical tab bar is in the center wasting space.
what iâve gathered from people i talk to about it is that a lot of it comes down to convenience. edge comes pre installed and microsoft makes it not super straightforward to switch. iâm sure most people could figure it out if they wanted to, but lots of people donât want to âfutz aroundâ with their computer. it also doesnât help that edge is pretty much the only thing that works with windows search along with certain outlook and teams features.
i like to spend time messing around and customizing my computer to be better (i still use vim as my main editor), but for many people its annoying and they donât want to âfix it if it isnât brokenâ. this is all just a very long winded way of saying they donât really care itâs not the optimal solution, as long as it works.
My dad used IE till the day it died, despite knowing that Chrome/Firefox was a better option. Some people just donât want to change if they donât have to.
Sometimes I wish I could give as few fucks about it all as they do.
i think we all have areas of life that we treat like your dad treats his web browsers. for example, im like that when it comes to cooking. i could probably cook meals that tasted much better if i put in a bit more effort into learning different techniques and some new recipes. but i just donât like cooking that much and the stuff i make is good enough for me. my dad is much like yours when it comes to web browsers, but he knows a lot more about cooking than i do, and he enjoys it a lot more too.
You do know that Chrome is not "the original one" and that Edge is not a reskinned Chrome, right?
Edit: I don't know why I tipped off all rude like that over something so inconsequential. My apologies.
Edge is based on chromium, so yes you can say it's just a reskinned chrome, the only other rendering engine now is gecko, which is what is used by Firefox and it's forks.
No need to apologize, we all have our opinions,but I was expecting you to elaborate on that a bit.
I think one huge issue is that edge is fine, it is a browser that works. There is nothing competitively interesting about it to make people consider switching, plus there is the infamy of IE and Micro$oft's reputation to contend with.
They should just develop a lightweight browser installer and bow out of the browser wars.
That will never happen, a browser is probably the best telemetry source you can possibly have. Microsoft wouldn't dream to give that up.
Oh I know, I was just living in a better world for a second.
They run the operating system, they collect all that data without the browser
If they are actually interested in the results, I think this is way better than the straight up nag screen they used to have.
Overly attached hegemon.
I don't get why everyone is appalled by this. They're just quantifying user feedback. Long as they don't stop you from downloading chrome, and the feedback is optional, I don't see the harm
Appalled? No.
Annoyed? Yeah.
its hard to stay appalled when its been something your feeling since its inception
I'm not really appalled. Just find it notable that Microsoft has four click throughs to try to nudge people towards Edge. Seems almost like desperation
Because it has vibes of the person screaming at you demanding to know why you won't go out with them.
Internet Explorer is older than my kids. I know what it is about. I choose to go elsewhere. I shouldn't have to fucking explain why I am not giving them a chance when they had like twenty plus years to not suck.
In context, Microsoft has made it quite annoying over the years for users to keep using the browser they like. This is yet another nag in a long series.
That kid with abandonment issues that tries to bribe classmates to stay a little while longer by promising them candy, but instead of that kid it's Microsoft, and instead of candy it's gravel.
That's similar to what I thought their Xbox strategy was. The rich kid buys an entire store because he has no idea how to prepare things for a party(i.e., make games). Now he owns the store (which is profitable tbf) but he still has no idea how to throw a party (i.e., Xbox games like Halo are still dead and they still don't have a good play test strategy the way Sony or Valve does so they keep releasing broken games). Xbox over the years slowly lost the formula to making great games to poor corporate management.
You're making a mistake in your line of thought there- the intention was never to throw a great party, the intention was ever only to make money. And that party is bouncing hard since the 90's...
Yeah MS, compel use of your software by forcing it on people, cajoling and misleading them. Instead of, ya know, adding killer features that make it popular and recommended by all, the way so many of your competitors did as they ate your lunch.
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Google Chrome download in Microsoftâs Edge web browser?
How many times will the company try to steer me away?
The pop-ups are nearly two years old, and the injected ads are from earlier this year.
I cannot believe how many stories weâve written about the shit Microsoft has pulled to steer you away from Chrome.
Even today, the company still wonât always respect your choice of default browser, though that may finally be changing in the EU.
Sadly the poll doesnât include an âIâm boycotting Edge because you donât respect me as a userâ option.
The original article contains 133 words, the summary contains 108 words. Saved 19%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Am I victim of the Mandela effect or did this happen some years ago too? I remember setting up chrome on win10 in my tech-normie days and getting a similar thing, maybe my memory is failing me.
They've been doing it for years, but in slightly different ways. Chances are you remember one of their numerous pathetic attempts to prevent switching from their spyware.
I think I am okay with this popup, I mean they are asking whats wrong with their product. They arent trying to break something in Chrome or like that.
If Edge stops forcing everyone with their "new and improved AI powered..." stuff, it is better than Chrome.
I love Edge so I never get this pop up.
Cursed
You have to really love it, you can't just pretend
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you forgot the "/s".
who would love giving all their data to a chrome re-skinned by Microsoft.
I do, I love it that Microsoft have all my data. It makes my life easier.
The answer, as the saying goes, is in the body of the question.
Completely legal and definitely not abusing one monopoly to push for another
I use Opera because it uses less memory on my tiny $175 laptop.
Debian 12 / Xfce will save more ram.
Edge was good at launch, it's still okay but it's kind of a bloated mess now
Firefox was great at launch (seems like 100 years ago now), got a little bloaty there in the middle, and is great again now. And it's not dependent on Chromium.
In case anyone's curious.
but itâs kind of a bloated mess now
That's Chrome and all its varieties, to be fair
Honestly Edge might be better at this point but it really doesn't matter. Google won the browser war years ago and people have too much inertia to care
Reminds me a bit of that scene in "2001 - A Space Odyssey" where Bowman unplugs HALs memory modules, and HAL begs him not to do that.
The stupid sidebar on the right is reason enough for me, but I also want an adblocker that's not crippled.
They think Chrome as everybody have a Gmail account but not Microsoft account. I dont think you can login to Edge with a Google account and get all your stuff there. At minimum you first must install Chrome, then start Edge and trigger the import process - but why do that when you now already have Chrome installed?
It's all about who gets to read along with you as you browse the web, plan your trips, share poignant memories and photos...
Some people want that creepily unknown corporate employee to be a Microsoft employee. Some prefer a Google employee, plus whoever Google is selling that information, over and over, to.
Some weirdos even prefer a browser without trackers. /s
Chrome has Google search. Edge has Bing. It's about financial prospects.
I don't use it, but I imagine it sends mountains of telemetry and browsing data back to Redmond.
Firefox or Brave for the win. Edge and Chrome are equally bloat/spyware.
Just use Firefox. Skip all this bullshit.
I use Firefox because I want you use a web browser whose main focus is browsing the web.
I came to say just this..
Why is the person downloading chrome in the first place. Firefox with ghostery and ublock origin is the way forward
Ghostery is redundant with total cookie protection
Is total cookie protection on Android? Is that the strict cookie setting?
As far as I'm aware it's available on Android. It's built into Enhanced Tracking Protection.
Awesome! That's what I love about Firefox
Just use Linux and Firefox. Skip all this bullshit.
Friendly reminder that winget comes preinstalled on Windows 11 now.
winget install Mozilla.FirefoxYou can install Firefox without even opening Edge!
Btw, MS stole it.
https://keivan.io/the-day-appget-died/
Not exactly "stole"; the author was fine about the code being used in this way. What they were upset about is the lack of attribution and communication.
Isn't this what licenses are for?
The license was Apache 2.0, and there was a tiny bit of attribution...just enough to cover the license requirements.
On Windows 10 too. I always just download from the website or store but I recently experienced the pretty fun of updating my apps over CLI for some reason
Which is something you will need to do to not accept their privacy invasive terms and conditions that you have to accept before using the bloated data harvesting browser.
Do you need an MS account?
Dude, nothing is more suspicious than when a developer of a supposedly free app nags you to use their app. Why do they even want you to use Edge so badly? You're never going to pay any money for it, this screams "give us your data, we want to sell it".
Why downloading chrome when you are using edge? Download Firefox.
I need chrome to download firefox
And then use Firefox to download Lynx.
This is the way, or even better use LibreWolf
I don't use Edge BECAUSE they keep begging and throwing ads at me for it. It's off putting, desperate and exactly what I don't want.
I don't use it because the Edge splash screen is chokka ads and news stories I don't want.
I don't use Edge because I find Bing annoying, and prefer duck duck go and google in that order, and I'm sick of constantly being nagged to use shit I don't want.
Microsoft get it in your head, you are an operating system. Your job is to Operate MY system. Do that well. And by all means build more software, make it optional and installable by choice. If it's good and works for me and not for you I will use it.
I don't use Chrome either. It no longer works for me. It now works for Google first.
Ive recently downgraded Firefox from browser number 1 to number 2. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not the best.
Currently I'm enjoying Opera because it feels fresh and zippy and works for me , but I'm not loyal. Edge if you do good, maybe I will use you too. But stop your pathetic shit.
I used Edge since the beginning, until they decided to fill it with bloat. It's getting worse than Chrome. Now I'm using Firefox that is still a browser instead of an application trying to replace all applications.
This is basically all proprietary software đ.
It serves the company first and foremost. The user's needs are an afterthought.
Microsoft is a cloud provider these days, Windows doesn't make enough money, that's why they are desperate to monetise already paying customers.
Azure/entra or whatever the fuck they call it this week is where the real money comes from
I share the same sentiment. The push of having Bing crap all over the place with the inability to make the browser more vanilla is just a turn off for me. As a former and technically current Chrome user, I have found the overall user interface to be pleasant and easy to use. At work, Chrome is the preferred browser so I continue to use it there but for personal use, I moved to Firefox. Itâs definitely taken an adjustment to get used to a few small differences but I havenât hit anything that breaks my experience to need to go back to Chrome yet after a few months on Firefox. The ability to customize Firefox to the level of detail thatâs possible is pretty impressive. While I donât go crazy with customizations because I feel it potentially adds to future tech debt I donât want to deal with as things change in Firefox, I like having the option.
switching to Linux + Firefox was the best thing ive ever did
I wish I could but I couldn't get steam games to work on it.
Anything that's steam deck certified should run flawlessly on Linux
What was you doing?
Other than enabling proton for all games in the settings, you shouldnât have to do anything else to get steam games working.
Well, unless the game itself uses anti-cheat and the developer hasnât enabled support for Linux, anyway.
Been running only Linux for 3 years and the only time I couldn't get a game to work was trying to play some 15 year old RTS games cross platform with friends.
Based on the massive about of replys I feel like it was user error which would be highly likely. I will give it another try.
Which games, and how long ago did you try? Proton has come a long way in the last few years.
I tried for about 5 hrs on Pop OS. Should I be using something else?
havent touched windows in like 2 years and only once had a problem with games not running
I've just converted my last Windows PC, meaning my gaming desktop, to Linux, now I need to figure out how to run SOLIDWORKS on it .. thinking a VM with GPU passthrough, but I'm a bit scared of the endeavor, despite having been a regular Linux user for I guess almost two decades.
I am using a 20gbps ssd with windows to go on it for my windows install so that when I plug in the ssd I boot to windows and when I restart and unplug I boot to linux, might be a solution for you?
I have kept windows on a separate ssd, but I find dual booting very disruptive, I don't want to reboot to change between tasks, I've tried it already in the past and it sucks.
This is why I am unfortunately back on windows. I use a couple programs everyday, and unfortunately they do not run on Linux. And there is not a usable alternative either.
I was rebooting to windows, doing what I had to, and then rebooting again. But it is just so disruptive and not user friendly.
This ^
Iâve tried dual booting multiple times over the last few years, but always end up with windows as the primary because restarting my computer 6+ times a day got so disruptive. Until the windows only software moves Iâm going to be on Windows.
Have you tried creating a windows VM inside of Linux?
I haven't tried side loading windows to be fair. I was trying to move away completely from the windows environment.
Wine?
Eh good luck with that. SOLIDWORKS sits firmly at the GARBAGE rating on the Wine AppDB
SOLIDWORKS sounds like it works perfectly, or it is not living up to its name and you should get a refund.
Use RDP apps to the cloud or something.
What does SOLIDWORKS do?
CAD/CAM, I design 3d parts with it
Have you tried Lutris?
No, I haven't. Would that make any difference? It's not a game
Perhaps I have misunderstood, but I thought there were some cases where you could use it for applications that aren't games.
But there's a good possibility that I'm wrong.
What was the problem?
Are the games that you play reported to work in Linux? Check out ProtonDB and search for some games you care about. Itâs possible they donât work but based off user reports, most likely theyâll work okay out of the box and work well with some tinkering.
Thanks for this info I will have to check.
Not seeing the option "Because fuck Microsoft"
In all seriousness tho, I use Firefox because it's not reskinned Chrome.
"I prefer giving my data to Google"
"Firefox"
That would be the Cancel button, because anything else would be giving Microsoft free data.
âMy reason is not listedâ
Wow. If there ever was a reason to run, this is it.
To Firefox, sure. But if you're on Windows and your preferred alternative is Chrome you really might as well stay with Edge and benefit from the integration into Microsoft's ecosystem. Either way your data is being harvested.
Adding a negative number is the same as subtracting a positive number.
I learned that in school.
remind me again how this isn't anticompetitive?
This. Regulators are a joke
Edge canât be anticompetitive if no one is using it
Imo asking why you leave is fine, many programs and extensions do it. The problem is that you never chose Edge but still have to use it to download another browser!
remember in the 90s or 00s when Microsoft had that antitrust case, and when you loaded up IE, it asked you what browser you wanted? We need that again, along with the antitrust case.
Why are you downloading chrome? You are supposed to download Firefox.
"Didn't you lose a lawsuit over this in the 90s?"
They are BASICALLY the same, only difference is whom they send your data to.
I'm not trying to defend Google here, but I use Edge every day for work, and it's definitely not as good as Chrome or Firefox. Both Chrome and Edge are based on Chromium, so core functionality is the same, but Edge has no shortage of crappy annoying changes that make it frustrating to use.
preach brother, firefox always looking for ways to improve and offer you a chance to take control to do it your way.
The tragedy of edge is that it is technically a fantastic browser for windows but made by Microsoft.
Just thinking about the engineers that built such great memory management and security features that no other browser has just to have the marketing guy come in and say 'yeah put these three layers of bloat on top oh and don't forget to add the new backdoor we need...' only to see that all their work is basically a tech meme...
I guess they must get home and cry while hugging their stock options and 300k/y contract the poor guys...
Those guys all got Balmered or something because Edge is now Chromium based.
Started daily driving Linux on a laptop 20 years ago. Moved my desktop to it by 2007. I haven't ran Windows at home except in a VM (5+years ago) since around 2009. I'm much happier with the quirks of Linux than I am using Microsoft products.
At this point Linux desktops have maintained a more stable UI, quirks and all. The main thing is the freedom of choice. If I want a standard start menu/toolbar interface that just works, KDE. Classic lightweight look and feel? XFCE. Stripped down tiling WM? i3. Then there is also Gnome Shell if you're into that sort of thing ;)
However I know for certain that next year I won't be forced to use a UI that totally scraps functionality I've been used to for 20 years and changes everything for the sake of change.
MS changes things without giving the customer a choice, from the Ribbon interface that started in Office, to the tile based launcher of Windows 8 and now the awful start menu of 11.
I have a windows partition for my tax software and last year I managed to run it under Wine, so haven't booted it in a year. Gaming under Linux is great now thanks to Steam/Proton!
Windows is just one big advertisement jfc and M$FT the audacity to charge $200 for it?! đŽââ ïž
It is a marketing OS for sure.
15 years ago I used to set up Linux HPC systems and we did a windows one for a testing project. Back then it was sort of a head scratcher, but I could see some use in it. Now? I donât know about that.
I prefer to leave edge never clicked by using winget. It comes default on Win 11 (Most likely new install, not an advertisement for that dumpster fire). For windows 10 you can use the Microsoft Store to install AppInstaller which will get you winget. Winget is a MS product.
I mainly like doing this because Edge does a bunch of setup when clicked for the first time. This avoids all that.
winget install --id=Google.Chrome -eOr you can ever do slightly prevent the backslide in marketshare for Firefox.
winget install --id=Mozilla.Firefox -eJust run powershell or windows terminal and use those commands and you can leave edge where it belongs.
More info here. https://winstall.app/apps/Mozilla.Firefox https://phoenixnap.com/kb/install-winget
Since I hardly use the ms store, you can get rid of it:
winget source delete msstoreand then just runwinget install chromeorwinget install firefoxWinget is pretty cool, but I'm not sure how it works exactly. The package sourcing, like anything Microsoft does is a bit sus and I'm worried it's crowdsourced.
It's great for passively checking for new versions of most software you got installed, won't argue with that.
It's like a more curated AUR. Winget looks up the manifest (
PKGBUILDequivalent) from its repo and executes its instructions. It usually downloads an installer, then executes it silently. The binaries may or may not be validated by Winget, and are mostly blobs, so exercise as much caution as with the AUR.Could also use scoop, but people get a little nervous running random powershell scripts off the internet. I have no fear of it. Scoop is also excellent for people with a little more tech savvy.
Install. Linux.
Switch to Linux, runaway from the windows shit and depravity.
I was playing Baldur's Gate 3 shortly after release and got a popup from Bing over the game asking if I wanted to enable Bing in Chrome. I immediately blocked bing.com on my network. Never looked back.
What the fuck
Because Microsoft is so damn pushy. Literally anytime they ask my feedback is that they need to just fuck off from my PC and do the bare minimum that I require them to do. I don't need all the bullshit they throw on there to try and get more and more of my data.
Microsoft: Should we invest time and energy into allowing a basic feature in the W11 taskbar, like the ability to ungroup items? No, better divert resources into pushing our shitty browser and making polls!
Dont forget they fucked their own BASIC search feature by making it assume you want to BING websearch when you're trying to quick locate a file on your computer
Seriously, the number of times I type something into the desktop search and want web search results is exactly zero.
I'm actually alright with this, which seems to be an unpopular opinion. It seems totally sensible for them to ask why you don't want to use Edge and would rather use Chrome.
If we want to prevent monopolies, we need healthy competition. If Microsoft improves Edge based on this user feedback to create an actually good product, then we all win. It means that if Firefox starts to pull the shit that Google is doing, we have a solid alternative.
Of course the manner in which Microsoft does this matters a lot, but the actual concept itself is a good one.
I wish for Microsoft to mind their business when I download another browser. A web developer or someone excersizing their freedom of choice should not need to deal with petty and sorry looking surveys.
On the other hand, it is fine to ask how the browser experience is like but not this.
Unfortunately, this privacy invasive feature goes against this concept because it already made the browser worse. Also, Edge is chromium based. Mozilla, Apple's Safari, and Chromium are the only true browser choices. Edge may bring some UX features, but they are data harvesting focused and not the core browser mechanisms. Microsoft is taking the work Google, and the chromium community puts into the code base and then running their own data harvesting UX on top. It is not a "alternative" browser choice, ever.
With Microsoft's track record, this survey is not to improve the browser but to harvest more data to pinpoint your identity and behavior to sell to advertisers and data analysts. So the "manner" Microsoft does this is more of a reason for not wanting to have this.
Yeah that's fair. If they just open a tab that says they're sorry to see you go but would appreciate feedback, that'd be fine. Trying to block the download to say that, not cool at all
I think it's a conflict of interest to leverage their position as an OS provider to do this. If they want feedback they can pay a market research firm like a normal company. God knows they have the money.
Its the browser that pops it up. Go download Firefox on Chrome and the same thing happens.
My problem with all of it is, they've built that shit into the browser. That means baked into the browser, it is watching what I'm doing and doing things on its own based on what I do.
It leaves the door open for them to bother me/phone home anytime I do something that isn't in their interests. Are they going to add in similar things for me looking for windows, office, GitHub, or Xbox alternatives?
I feel like a lot of users won't use edge because of spite. It's intrusive and manipulative stuff like this which has angered a lot of people. Admittedly, this is one of the more harmless reactions.
Edge: "Nobody likes me. :( "
Microsoft: "Don't worry. We will make them like you. >:] "
Itâs none of Microsoftâs business if Iâm using their web browser or not. They shouldnât be blocking my use of another product just because I donât like theirs.
If they're that crazy over their browser, how much other shit are you sending them you don't know about?
But they're not, you can still download and use any browser you like.
They are throwing unnecessary blockades (the article mentions 4 popups/warnings that Edge is just as good as Chrome).
The competition between Chrome and Edge is very shallow, they're two slightly altered and heavily branded reskins of chromium, the real competition would be Firefox and it's forks (mullvad, waterfox, librewolf) (and maybe webkit aka safari) Vs chromium but there's no big corporation behind those (except safari, but it has many of the problems that big corpo chromium browsers have) , so they're struggling a lot.
Microsoft is synonymous with "healthy competition!" /s
Edge collects your "ctrl-f" in-page searches. Fuck that with a cactus.
I assure you that no percent of the people this poll is aimed at make decisions because of that. They don't even know about it.
Microsoft: Possibly the biggest motivator in people switching to Linux or MacOS.
I'm about to jump ship to Linux. I have been a Windows user since it first came out. I was DOS savvy before that, but Microsoft has just been getting worse and worse. They have never made a web browser that is worth a teaspoon of salt being high on the list of reasons they suck. Buuuuut, it's what all the software runs on. Now, though, they have gotten to be such bullies about forced updates and more that I am done. I'm not gonna lie, it's a little intimidating to have to start all over again, especially since Linux expects you to be very hands on with everything and I have let a looooot of my savvy slip by the wayside, but I feel like I've been forced at this point.
Something about boiling a frog
Unless you heavily depend on Adobe or a very niche proprietary software you'll be fine. Install something user friendly like Linux Mint or Ubuntu and you'll be fine. If you stick to these distros, Linux is going to be really really easy.
Well, in the case of Linux, also free. Many years ago I built an HTPC to run a media center at home and I got it all done and I realized that I didn't actually HAVE install media (or a spare license) for windows and it kinda irritated me that a legitimate license was going to cost me like $100 for a computer that wouldn't ever do anything but stream media from my own server. I had heard of linux before and I really wanted to make sure that my hardware worked without having to figure out how to actually buy windows and wound up installing ubuntu to test it out. I was surprised to discover that once installed it wasn't really all that different from Windows and decided then and there that this would be perfectly adequate for my HTPC and wound up using linux on various machines ever since. (I always have an old thinkpad running some flavor of linux for most of my general computing).
Like a lot of folks, I think the only thing I use windows for is working remotely and gaming (although, that is less and less the case since I got a steam deck and linux support for gaming has gotten SO much better over the last ten years).
I was surprised to find that gaming on linux just works. Valve has done a wonderful job in improving proton.
Proton is so good now that there are games that have native Linux versions that run better if you play the Windows version with proton.
I virtual machine Linux these days. There is just too much effort in getting everything moved over from streaming video to games. No I don't want to see a tutorial.
Linux for regular stuff, Microsoft for entertainment. Except porn. I still need Linux for porn because I am not insane
Been Linux full time since February. 100% because of the bullshit MS is pulling. Hard pass.
On a side note, Linux is fantastic now, all my games work, it doesn't everything I need/want it to do with ease.
both of them are fighting over the exclusive rights to your browsing data and ad-impressions.
They can both suck an egg.
As someone once said to me. Microsoft is not something you like, but is something you have to withstand due to Enterprise use it so much, and have so many users.
But when it comes to the browser, then you have to follow the standard for HTML, and suddenly you can choose something else.
Websites have historically been so godawful about complying with web standards that browsers had no choice but to support grossly non-standard code. Which then became standard. Now the vast majority of the web only works because of browser implementation details. So it's Chromium and Gecko and nothing else ever again.
So download firefox! Anyway, edge is a reskinned chrome, like nearly all chrome based browsers...
Microsoft, if they weren't run by morons could capitalize HARD on Google's fuckery.
Hey, we've got the chromium browser but we won't be following suit with googles anti ad blocking bullshit!
This would convert a bunch of people, including me. And with me goes pretty much 30 people in my range (family / friends) since I setup their shit anyway.
But, no Microsoft is just licking Google's asshole and applying lipstick on the chrome turd and wondering why no-one wants it.
Might I add, they keep adding so much useless junk to their browser hopping that any of it will stick, and it's just bloat and more bloat.
Edge is going full IE6. The Greeks were right, time is a fucking circle, not a line.
But Microsoft don't want you to block ads either, so they'd never do that anyway.
If I can't use FF or one of its derivatives I will literally use edge just in spite of chrome, and do everything possible to not use chrome
I recommend Ungoogled Chromium if you have to pick a Chromium derivative. It's a solid browser with the spyware removed, rather than taped over and exchanged with Microsoft's own.
Is edge based off of chrome?
Yes, at this point the choice is who gets to spy on you.
Yes, but they replaced the Google spyware with the Microsoft one (as you can easily see from the behavior when downloading Chrome)
It's based on Chromium.
So there's no spyware to be taped over?
Well, there's a bit of work to do. See Ungoogled Chromium for an example of a stripped-down Chromium.
Not an easy question. Chromuim by default has pre-made blobs of code from Google that cannot be opened/inspected. We don't know if Microsoft has replaced or excised those blobs from Edge.
Ungoogled Chromium is a community project that replaces those blobs with code we can see amd audit, but again we don't know if Microsoft builds off Ungoogled Chromium or just Chromium, because Edge itself is not open source.
You can't blame them for wanting to know. It's a major market, and they're getting their asses kicked. If I had to pick one, I'd pick Edge over Chrome, so it's actually an interesting question anyway.
I switched to chrome just to try it out years ago, and then I probably would have switched to edge when it replaced explorer just to try that out, but Microsoft just got so pushy trying to convince me to use it and forcing it as default and little notifications about how it's the best that I just refuse to use it out of spite now.
You would rather be edging over chroming.
đ€šđž
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6C49HbyiZ0&t=17
You chromed your dick?
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=h6C49HbyiZ0&t=17
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I think that the problem here is that Edge inject the poll in a web page, served from a site that is not from Microsoft, not that they asked it.
I would maybe understand that they asked when installing Chrome, or if was from a page from Microsoft. What's next ? Ask because I use bank A instead of bank B ?
I think the number one answer is just that for so long people have heard not to use MS's browser and most people have no clue one way or the other so they just follow the herd. (Not insulting them, there is no possible way for anyone to be intimately informed about every single topic and so for things you don't care one way or the other, might as well follow word of mouth)
picking between a turd sandwich and a giant douche, what a decision to make. Firefox all the way, nothing stinky happening in that direction, no need to just pick between the two because it will always be NEITHER
winget install -i Mozilla.Firefox -eYou know it.
Do they really think it being a Microsoft product means people trust it more?
The entire world runs on Microsoft products. They're a very highly trusted company.
In this instance, Microsoft has tried everything but pay people to use Edge, but IE burned enough bridges that they're struggling to regain market share. This flies in the face of how much trust consumers generally put in Microsoft products, and thus makes sense to ask.
Yeah, they're really struggling to get their reputation back after letting IE drag it down. I honestly never really used Edge until I started my new job last month. The system is locked to Chrome or Edge and I decided to give Edge a try since it would actually let me enable dark mode where Chrome is locked by system administrators for themes. It's actually a good browser. I just never trusted it because it was a MS browser. But I prefer Firefox to all of them but that's just a personal preference.
Plus Edge has support for vertical tabs built in natively. It's wild to me that horizontal tabs are still the default, using up valuable vertical screen space and having illegible names when you've got a certain number of tabs open, when vertical tabs are an option. So props to Edge for offering that.
I never really got into vertical tabs at all. Although I never have that many tabs open that I really need that space efficiency. I can never understand how people have more than like 8 tabs open.
I have to use edge at work and the vertixle tabs is my favourite thing about it.
I often need lots of tabs open and finding rhem is difficult ao i have an autohiding verticle tab bar and i put my tabs into groups which i name and collapse so i can see what each tab is as alot of tabs have the same title as part of my job involves the use of a service desk.
I wish other browsers had it.
I've never really needed to have many tabs open so I don't really understand that struggle. I might have it more with my new job in commercial lending where our loan origination system is a web based app so maybe I'll need to have a lot more tabs open for that. If so, I could see myself switching to vertical tabs but I've just never had a need to have more than like 10 open at a time and that's usually only when I'm shopping around and comparing products/reviews.
Except for all the Mac/iOS Android/Chrome stuff. Or NASA, the NY stock exchange, 50% of servers, Federal Aviation Administration, U.S. Department of Defense, Nuclear submarines etc. those run on Linux. But other than those yes, the entire world lol
Yes. Aside from them, about 5 billion other people use Microsoft products.
This isn't fanboy shit dude this is just reality.
The latest estimate of how many people that use the internet at all is around 5 billion. Where did you get that number?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Internet_usage
Android is by far the most used operating system for web use and for servers it's estimated at 77 % linux, not 50 % as stated above.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
Windows dominated the desktop segment, you should realize that desktop use is in decline in favor of mobile usage.
Everything but make Edge a good browser, you mean.
Edge is a perfectly cromulent browser that fills the average user's needs just fine and has some great additional cruft such as their vertical tabs and Collections implementation. It's not 2013 anymore. Why people still go out of their way to get Chrome of all things is an important question for Microsoft to ask. Just living off of Chrome's literal crumbs is worthwhile to Microsoft, imagine if they actually had a marketshare that reflected the two products capabilities. People obviously don't do it for safety or privacy or functionality reasons, and Microsoft will literally pay you to use Bing. They probably wonder what the fucking issue is at this point.
I think many people don't feel they have an alternative. That's not the same as trust.
With browsers, they have a choice, despite MS's best efforts.
People don't have an alternative. Microsoft will choose for them at the next Windows update and pick auto MS Edge as the default browser again. They are solving problems...
Yer, they need more anti monopoly stuff against them. As do Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon, etc. They are have their own thiefdoms.
Cory Doctorow's latest podcast talked about this mess : https://craphound.com/news/2023/10/23/microincentives-and-enshittification/
It's worth noting that this is mainly an issue on the cheapest Windows licenses. On Pro editions and Enterprise editions you can prevent the hijacking via Group Policy, which is not available to Home licenses.
Please note that I'm not saying I'm okay with this. I'm just trying to explain why there's a bunch of people out there who don't have to deal with that mess (like myself).
I meanâŠMicrosoft is paying people to use Edge with Microsoft Rewards. Itâs not a lot, but you can net a few cents each day with their Edge exclusive tasks.
I don't think the entire world. Only about 5% of the people at the last three companies I've worked at had Windows machines, and most of them in accounting. And the only part of the software stack that was Windows were QA machines. Until recently I hadn't used a Windows machine for anything other than gaming since 2009.
And while they're still a surprising 48% of the server market, that's not "the entire world." Maybe it's because I'm a Mac fanboy from back in the day, but I never trusted Microsoft. And used to spell their name with a dollar sign.
Idk man Iâve worked with hundreds of companies of all shapes and sizes as a consultant and Iâve never once seen one that used non-windows workstations with the only exception being Macs used in software development. And Iâm also fairly certain that the Microsoft server market share would be much, MUCH higher if you didnât count web servers. Web servers are the only type of server Iâve seen be Linux in the majority. Most web service companies Iâve worked with even had Windows servers working behind their Linux web servers and load balancers. Like a ratio of 10-20:1
I say this as somebody who hates Microsoft with a passion and would rather work in an all-Linux shop but a non-Microsoft enterprise just sounds like a unicorn.
Then, not counting when I was freelancing, I've found three unicorns. There were so few Windows machines around it frequently became a problem where devs or support had to have someone in accounting test something.
Yeah I could see it if they were an all-Mac environment in a small office that was tiny enough to not need Active Directory. Even then Mac desktops have like 20% desktop market share so thatâd still be impressive that you got a Mac environment 3 times in a row.
Linux has like 3% of the desktop market, that would be pretty close to unbelievable.
Yes, why not? For the layman Microsoft is the name of a company that has existed for a long time and has made reliable, functional products.
Even for the non-layman, Microsoft isn't a perfect company, but it's not as if Google is any better.
From what I've read, Edge sends way more data back to Microsoft than Chrome sends to Google which is already too much.
They're just doing 1984 speak.
Do they do the same if you download Firefox? I remember using IE exclusively to download FF immediately after installing XP, Win 7, 10 or whatever it was.
Yeah. I too have had some great times with Microsoft browsers over the years...
Downloading Firefox, downloading Opera, downloading Chromium, downloading Firefox again.
Yeah, I've made some great memories with Microsoft browsers.
At least there's a route to use Microsoft's browser and other software they bundle to get another browser on the system.
I remember on the classic Mac, Apple didn't bundle a decompression program for quite some time. Files on the Mac didn't just consist of a single lump of data, but could also have a resource fork, which had structured data. Executables were a format that had to have data in that resource fork. Which meant that you had a boostrapping problem -- you had no executable on the computer that could download and reconstruct a usable executable, so you first needed to obtain -- on some form of removable media -- software, like Stuffit Expander or similar -- capable of constructing an executable from downloaded data.
Overly controlling bf
Linux equivalent: Imagine if AppImageD pops up asking for your opinion and feedback on AppImages whenever you visit Flathub or Snapcraft.
If I was Microsoft, I'd wanna know too. After all, it's a race for every single one of our data points, and then some.
Either way, you gotta admit it's ironically funny that Microsoft wants to keep/poach Chrome users into their own... wait for it... Chromium-based browser.
If I was Microsoft I would be investing in a some market that no one has clear dominance in. Right now they are trying to manage inconvenience. Making it harder and harder to not use their product. This strategy never works unless the government backs you up. They are trying to be like Comcast. You want to be like Apple. You want people to pay a premium for what they consider the best.
It's why their approach is failing too. They aren't offering any technical benefits, they are just trying to get more of your data for themselves.
It is fine to want to know... it is just a question of how do you ask
What happens when you try to download Firefox?
Angels sing.
I just tested and none of the pop-ups appear when searching "download Firefox"
They know most people who don't know one way or the other are downloading chrome just because that's what they heard to do. They also know anyone downloading firefox is doing so for a reason and won't be dissuaded by pop-ups.
I.e. Microsoft is looking to build an antitrust suit against Google.
It Microsoft were forced to decouple internet exploder from Windows then Google should be forced to decouple chrome from android.
A fresh android ( and iOS ) install should present a dialogue asking the user which browser they want. The companies should not be allowed to integrate browser specific features into the OS.
You, and nobody can stop them from doing so. It turns out that web UI technologies are very easily and conveniently usable for OS GUI features as well. Browsing a file system? Web UI. Navigating settings and configurations pages? Web UI.
And these browsers are open-source. Chromium. Edge is a derivative of Chromium, so is Chrome. The fact that Google controls the Chromium upstream matters not at all, because anyone is free to fork it and modify to their needs.
Freedom is a double-edged sword, but this is many folds better than locked-in proprietary.
Of course they can be forced to provide a browser selection screen when installing the OS. What are you even talking about technology for, this is a regulatory issue.
I wouldn't turn this into a Firefox vs chrome(ium) fight,but why would anyone use a reskinned chrome(edge) over the original one? Not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious.
Edge's vertical tabs and splitscreen are killer features that I cannot replicate without issues on firefox or chrome.
I've been using tree style tab on firefox for maybe almost 10 years and rarely have any issue unless the firefox update broke it which also rarely happens
I'm using different vertical tabs (forget the name), have the top hidden, except if I hover over specific region, have various identities (containers?) Implementwd within the vertical sidebar and two profiles that show as a separate app on the toolbar.
Firefox is great.
Tried and just not as seamless and edge. The groupings and simplicity is killer. Currently running a variant of tst on Firefox and it is just ok.
I've not used the in browser splitscreen, but can't you just use the window snapping feature built into the Windows OS itself for that?
Winkey+any arrow key Minimize, Maximize, snap to left or right half of screen.
The issue with that is then the vertical tab bar is in the center wasting space.
what iâve gathered from people i talk to about it is that a lot of it comes down to convenience. edge comes pre installed and microsoft makes it not super straightforward to switch. iâm sure most people could figure it out if they wanted to, but lots of people donât want to âfutz aroundâ with their computer. it also doesnât help that edge is pretty much the only thing that works with windows search along with certain outlook and teams features.
i like to spend time messing around and customizing my computer to be better (i still use vim as my main editor), but for many people its annoying and they donât want to âfix it if it isnât brokenâ. this is all just a very long winded way of saying they donât really care itâs not the optimal solution, as long as it works.
My dad used IE till the day it died, despite knowing that Chrome/Firefox was a better option. Some people just donât want to change if they donât have to.
Sometimes I wish I could give as few fucks about it all as they do.
i think we all have areas of life that we treat like your dad treats his web browsers. for example, im like that when it comes to cooking. i could probably cook meals that tasted much better if i put in a bit more effort into learning different techniques and some new recipes. but i just donât like cooking that much and the stuff i make is good enough for me. my dad is much like yours when it comes to web browsers, but he knows a lot more about cooking than i do, and he enjoys it a lot more too.
You do know that Chrome is not "the original one" and that Edge is not a reskinned Chrome, right?
Edit: I don't know why I tipped off all rude like that over something so inconsequential. My apologies.
Edge is based on chromium, so yes you can say it's just a reskinned chrome, the only other rendering engine now is gecko, which is what is used by Firefox and it's forks.
No need to apologize, we all have our opinions,but I was expecting you to elaborate on that a bit.
Anyways,no harm no foul.
I think one huge issue is that edge is fine, it is a browser that works. There is nothing competitively interesting about it to make people consider switching, plus there is the infamy of IE and Micro$oft's reputation to contend with.
They should just develop a lightweight browser installer and bow out of the browser wars.
That will never happen, a browser is probably the best telemetry source you can possibly have. Microsoft wouldn't dream to give that up.
Oh I know, I was just living in a better world for a second.
They run the operating system, they collect all that data without the browser
If they are actually interested in the results, I think this is way better than the straight up nag screen they used to have.
Overly attached hegemon.
I don't get why everyone is appalled by this. They're just quantifying user feedback. Long as they don't stop you from downloading chrome, and the feedback is optional, I don't see the harm
Appalled? No.
Annoyed? Yeah.
its hard to stay appalled when its been something your feeling since its inception
I'm not really appalled. Just find it notable that Microsoft has four click throughs to try to nudge people towards Edge. Seems almost like desperation
Because it has vibes of the person screaming at you demanding to know why you won't go out with them.
Internet Explorer is older than my kids. I know what it is about. I choose to go elsewhere. I shouldn't have to fucking explain why I am not giving them a chance when they had like twenty plus years to not suck.
In context, Microsoft has made it quite annoying over the years for users to keep using the browser they like. This is yet another nag in a long series.
That kid with abandonment issues that tries to bribe classmates to stay a little while longer by promising them candy, but instead of that kid it's Microsoft, and instead of candy it's gravel.
That's similar to what I thought their Xbox strategy was. The rich kid buys an entire store because he has no idea how to prepare things for a party(i.e., make games). Now he owns the store (which is profitable tbf) but he still has no idea how to throw a party (i.e., Xbox games like Halo are still dead and they still don't have a good play test strategy the way Sony or Valve does so they keep releasing broken games). Xbox over the years slowly lost the formula to making great games to poor corporate management.
You're making a mistake in your line of thought there- the intention was never to throw a great party, the intention was ever only to make money. And that party is bouncing hard since the 90's...
Yeah MS, compel use of your software by forcing it on people, cajoling and misleading them. Instead of, ya know, adding killer features that make it popular and recommended by all, the way so many of your competitors did as they ate your lunch.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Google Chrome download in Microsoftâs Edge web browser?
How many times will the company try to steer me away?
The pop-ups are nearly two years old, and the injected ads are from earlier this year.
I cannot believe how many stories weâve written about the shit Microsoft has pulled to steer you away from Chrome.
Even today, the company still wonât always respect your choice of default browser, though that may finally be changing in the EU.
Sadly the poll doesnât include an âIâm boycotting Edge because you donât respect me as a userâ option.
The original article contains 133 words, the summary contains 108 words. Saved 19%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Am I victim of the Mandela effect or did this happen some years ago too? I remember setting up chrome on win10 in my tech-normie days and getting a similar thing, maybe my memory is failing me.
They've been doing it for years, but in slightly different ways. Chances are you remember one of their numerous pathetic attempts to prevent switching from their spyware.
I think I am okay with this popup, I mean they are asking whats wrong with their product. They arent trying to break something in Chrome or like that.
If Edge stops forcing everyone with their "new and improved AI powered..." stuff, it is better than Chrome.
I love Edge so I never get this pop up.
Cursed
You have to really love it, you can't just pretend
đ€ą
you forgot the "/s".
who would love giving all their data to a chrome re-skinned by Microsoft.
I do, I love it that Microsoft have all my data. It makes my life easier.
The answer, as the saying goes, is in the body of the question.
Completely legal and definitely not abusing one monopoly to push for another
I use Opera because it uses less memory on my tiny $175 laptop.
Debian 12 / Xfce will save more ram.
Edge was good at launch, it's still okay but it's kind of a bloated mess now
Firefox was great at launch (seems like 100 years ago now), got a little bloaty there in the middle, and is great again now. And it's not dependent on Chromium.
In case anyone's curious.
That's Chrome and all its varieties, to be fair
Honestly Edge might be better at this point but it really doesn't matter. Google won the browser war years ago and people have too much inertia to care
Reminds me a bit of that scene in "2001 - A Space Odyssey" where Bowman unplugs HALs memory modules, and HAL begs him not to do that.
The stupid sidebar on the right is reason enough for me, but I also want an adblocker that's not crippled.
They think Chrome as everybody have a Gmail account but not Microsoft account. I dont think you can login to Edge with a Google account and get all your stuff there. At minimum you first must install Chrome, then start Edge and trigger the import process - but why do that when you now already have Chrome installed?
This is true for all other browsers.
https://youtu.be/DEzC-3mi3y0?t=19
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/DEzC-3mi3y0?t=19
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Edge is just chromium, so what's the big deal.
It's all about who gets to read along with you as you browse the web, plan your trips, share poignant memories and photos...
Some people want that creepily unknown corporate employee to be a Microsoft employee. Some prefer a Google employee, plus whoever Google is selling that information, over and over, to.
Some weirdos even prefer a browser without trackers. /s
Chrome has Google search. Edge has Bing. It's about financial prospects.
I don't use it, but I imagine it sends mountains of telemetry and browsing data back to Redmond.
Firefox or Brave for the win. Edge and Chrome are equally bloat/spyware.