I am - in the UK - and I think that it should be opt out rather than opt in.
It is, they changed it a while back.
I'd go so far as to say there should be no choice available to opt out
I think the vast majority of people who, even if they have some discomfort around the idea, would not care enough to opt out. The only effect of not allowing opt out, I think, would be to cause considerable distress to those who do care a lot about not donating. I don't agree with their stance but I don't think they should be forced to donate, especially if we can get enough organs just from making it opt out instead of opt in
Wtf? The state doesn't own our bodies.
Neither do you, once you're dead.
How does it matter though once we're dead? It's only gonna help others in need
Just so everyone knows, you can't really transplant dead organs (at least not as safely or with the success of live organs).
They can only use your organs if you die in a hospital setting. They will keep pumping blood to your organs after you die to keep them "fresh" and "alive."
Post-death organ transfer exists but is way more risky than an organ that was recently in a living, functioning body.
So if you've ever considered it, keep in mind that you have to die at a hospital for it to happen, and even then, they're still technically forcing your body to be alive to keep these organs alive.
Source: Friend who lost his leg to amputation during a COVID-coma. They didn't think he would make it. He woke up in the donor ward. EDIT: Just to be clear, this happened during peak COVID before the vaccines when bodies were just piling up everywhere. I don't think a coma patient waking up in the donor ward is a normal thing, I think it happened because COVID was a fucked up situation and people were overwhelmed.
What does it even look like when you wake up in a donor ward? Was he a write-off and the doctors were just like 'oh shit, he's awake'? Do non-donors simply get disposed of instead of being brought there?
He's older and it's been tough to get explicit details from him, but yeah it sounds like because it was during COVID and beds for bodies were so scarce, on top of the fact that they didn't have high hopes for him surviving (so many people his age with COVID just never made it), that they were keeping in there for simplicity's sake. Anyway, it spurred me to begin looking into organ donation actually functions, and I mean, it makes sense, I just hadn't really thought about it before that you technically have to have your body being kept alive to be able to donate the organs. A rotting organ probably isn't very useful. That's why it usually happens with terminal patients where the outcome is 100% they are gonna die. During COVID, with bodies piling up, and lack of open beds in hospitals, it at least makes sense to me that he would have ended up there, in case he didn't wake up. It was pandemonium, at the time. Sadly, it seems to have kind of messed with his head to wake up in that situation, he's a lot less trustful of doctors now.
If I'd walk up from coma with one leg less, I might lose my trust in doctors too...
It’s not the leg amputation, I believe, they considered him “as good as dead” when he went into coma. He knew he was getting an amputation. What he didn’t expect was that he would wake up to a nightmare of being prepped for his other organs to be removed.
Damn that is a nightmare. That's not just trust issues, that's a legitimate traumatic event. That is trauma.
Sorry, I misunderstood your post.
I worked as a transplant coordinator for a few years, and you're mostly right, but there qre a few points I would clarify.
Dead is dead. All transplants are post death.
All of your organs need oxygen to keep functioning. When they don't have oxygen, the cells die and the organ stops working, but you can be dead and have functioning organs.
When your brain is deprived of oxygen, the neurons stop firing and you're gone. Dead is the irreversible cessation of brain activity. Sometimes organs can heal, but once your brain is gone, you're dead.
Sometimes that happens because your heart stops beating. The muscle in your heart can also die, and it will stop pumping blood. This heart failure deprives your brain of blood, and then you die. When your heart is failing, you can stimulate the heart to keep beating and continue to live. But if your heart stops beating and you die, that is called a cardiovascular death.
You may also lose oxygen due to a failure of the lungs. Lungs put oxygen in your blood, and if your lungs fail, you don't get oxygen to your brain and you die. This could be related to the lungs, the vasculature between the heart and lungs, or any combination of the three.
The liver and the kidneys work to filter the blood. If either of these fail, your blood can become toxic and poison your heart, your lungs, and/or your brain. The liver and kidneys also need oxygen to live, so if your heart stops beating or your lungs stop providing oxygen, then they will begin to die at the same time as your heart.
Like your organs, your muscles, skin, and nerves also need oxygen to live, and if you have trouble getting oxygen to your peripheral systems, your limbs can begin to die and become necrotic. Necrotic tissue creates a feedback loop of decay in your blood stream, and often requires amputation.
Covid affects both the lungs and the heart. Lung damage reduces oxygen in the blood, and heart failure reduces the flow of blood to the extremities.
Now, in the event of a traumatic brain injury, like a motorcycle accident, the brain can be killed before the other organs begin to die. The heart has a special mechanism that allows it to continue beating without input from the brain. These are ideal circumstances for organ donation, because the donor has died but their transplantable organs are in good condition.
It might be different in other countries, but in the USA, there is a network of transplant professionals that work together to procure and distribute transplants. They work with the hospitals to identify potential donors and talk to the families about donation options.
The hospital would call the local organ procurement organization every time any patient had a traumatic brain injury, even before they died. Patients would continue to receive treatment in the same area of the hospital by the same doctors and nurses. There is no "donor ward" and the only difference in treatment is that additional efforts will be made to keep the transplantable organs alive.
The patient's doctor wants to keep their brain alive along with everything else, and they only stop trying when it becomes impossible to succeed.
So, while I'm sure that your friend really did experience the loss of a limb, and I'm certain the OPO had dispatched a transplant coordinator to evaluate your friend for donation, there's no way the family was approached for possible donation without a dire prognosis (or maybe they asked). The approach would have been in the same conversation where they discuss withdrawing care because there is no hope.
The doctors and the family may have mentioned that they had discussed donation to demonstrate how dire the situation seemed, and how close to death your friend was, but they would not have altered his care at all or moved him to a special section for donors.
His parents both died of COVID while he was in the coma. While I'm sure you're very correct in everything you're saying, he was basically a "ward of the State" at that point, considering his "family" was now deceased. He was already on SSI when this happened, and his parents dying kind of fucked up a lot of things because suddenly he had an inheritance and Social Security cut off his SSI funding because now he had technically too much money to qualify.
That's fucked up. It must have been horrible to wake up to all of that.
As a ward of the state, he would have been assigned a case worker who would have been in charge of his care and end of life decisions. The TCs would have still tried to find next of kin or any family that could provide consent (and a medical and social history). Besides the legal implications, there's also a PR consideration. Transplant organizations are keenly aware of the public perception, and they will go to any lengths to avoid the narrative that the state killed someone to steal their organs. If there was a third cousin in Germany, they would have gotten a phone call before decisions were made.
ICU PA here who frequently deals with all of this. Amazing information, thank you.
Would just like to add to the conversation that tissue like corneas can still be donated in even circumstances where other more sensitive organs are nonviable. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
You're right, same with bone and skin.
Hey that's something! Maybe all this moisturising will pay off
Now, in the event of a traumatic brain injury, like a motorcycle accident, the brain can be killed before the other organs begin to die. The heart has a special mechanism that allows it to continue beating without input from the brain. These are ideal circumstances for organ donation, because the donor has died but their transplantable organs are in good condition.
This is why they call them donor-cycles! Also why early summer is peak donation time. Yay!
Sorry to hear about your friend.
I don't think knowing this fact should discourage anyone from choosing to be a donor, though. It just means that yeah, it's unlikely that you'll be in a position where they can use your organs when you die, but it doesn't hurt to be put on the list just in case.
Iirc, I think a lot of organ donations end up being from people in motor vehicle accidents.
I did get to see one case where they harvested the person's bones instead of their organs. Didn't even know that was a thing. I'm not sure if they died in a hospital setting or not. Might be you get more time to harvest bones as opposed to organs?
Oh yeah, I hope I don't dissuade anyone. I just hadn't ever really deeply thought about it before, despite being a registered organ donor. It's an interesting conundrum to me, because you need fresh, live organs, but you can't reasonably take those from fresh, live people most of the time, so you need people who are literally on death's door, who aren't going to make it, to have their bodies kept artificially alive for the purpose of organ transfer. COVID was just a fucked up situation all around with not enough beds and so many people dying. My friend had a rough experience, but it's hardly the norm.
Yeah I'm so glad that we're not still in that disaster. I mean, I know COVID is still out there, but thankfully in much smaller numbers and we have a much greater capacity to treat it nowadays... especially without hospitals being overwhelmed.
I've seen cases where patients actually ended up getting lung transplants in an attempt to save them with COVID. I handled the diseased lungs and they were so bizarre looking.
Wow, I didn't know about the covid lung transplants. If you don't mind me asking, could you describe the covid lungs/how they looked different to healthy lungs? Just morbidly curious
Sure thing. It's been a while and I've only seen a few, but I'll do my best.
So normal lungs are puffy enough, and smooth and glistening on the outside. On the inside, they resemble a kitchen sponge. They are soft and pliable, and able to easily contract and expand to inhale and exhale air.
In these COVID lungs, the outside was very ragged and shaggy. They were distorted with a lot of contracted areas. When you cut into it, there was some residual spongy areas, but a lot of it was white, firm, and solid. Think of how you might get a gnarly scar on your arm from a bit cut. Except instead of just being a single scar, almost the entirely of the lungs are scarred and firm. They aren't able to contract and expand easily anymore because of how firm and rigid they've become. And because they no longer have the spongy architecture, it means many of the airspaces are lost and there is far less areas for potential gas exchange.
So I'm not positive, but I'm fairly sure these COVID lung transplant attempts are primarily performed on younger patients after their body was able to clear the virus. It's just that in these individuals, although they no longer had COVID, the resulting scar tissue absolutely destroyed their lungs. It doesn't happen in every case thankfully...or even most cases, but when it does it's a bit scary.
I remember one of my cases being a young pregnant woman who had to be put on an ECMO machine (artificially oxygenates the blood when your heart and/or lungs cannot). I don't know whatever came of her, but I hoped she was able to go on and lead a relatively normal life.
Wow, that was really interesting. Thanks for typing that up
No problem. I get to see some nat things from time to time.
Judging by this comment thread I'm not the only one who's like "you can have them, but I don't know if you're going to want them"
There's some of us that probably have perfectly good organs, but due to various blood born viruses we can't donate even though we squashed the buggers with new medications.
Healthcare in the US is run for profit. From 2020 estimates, they charge $1.6 million for a heart transplant. $1.3 million to transplant a pair of lungs, $880 thousand for a liver, and $440 thousand for a kidney. This is what for profit hospitals charge patients while giving your next of kin nothing for the organs that made it possible.
They don't pay you for your organs. They will still bill your estate for any care other than the organ removal despite your generosity.
I would happily be an organ donor in a country with a non-profit healthcare system. But because of how heathcare is run in this country, I would rather my organs be left to rot.
I agree it's horrible, but also I don't see it as a large enough reason to not donate. The person receiving the organs is probably not the cause of this. It's like not working because your labor mostly goes to the elites. It's not a great plan, even if it does feel good.
Thankfully it's opt-out in Slovakia, so yes.
I'll be dead. Do whatever with my body. Take the organs, fuck it, feed it to animals, compost it, use it as shooting target, turn me into soap, I won't care. I literally won't be able to care. Why even decline?
I would buy your soap
id personally be ok if people didn't use my dead body as a shooting target. soap would be pretty nice tho.
Fuck it?
Woa
of course.
i'll be dead and won't need them while others might. how selfish of me not to give them over
Twin.
I wish I could properly state the right of first sale he has, given it's his DNA (well, he has mine, anyway).
Fun fact: organs donated between perfect twins have no short- or long-term rejection issues. So unlike a regular donation that prolongs life for a decade or two, if he can drug me and steal my kidneys in sleazy Mexican motel, it's a permanent fix.
Hell, when I go, maybe he'll take a spare kidney or pancreas or something, and just, you know, hook them up. Totally fine with me.
Imagine taking everything. Splice both kidneys in there and get that ultra pure blood. Climb Mount Everest with no supplemental oxygen using a second set of lungs. Four nuts.
If I had a twin, he'd have to watch his back
That went unexpectedly dark.
I thought it was sweet
Why not both?
Darksweet. New fiction genre just dropped
Actually, from experience, this is how I would describe the humour of queer people I know.
No.
My mom got double brain aneurism. Had her head cut open to put clamps on the leaking arteries.
Slipped into a coma, few days later doctor came in to convince us for prepping her for organ donor, dad said it was too early.
Another few days later doctors came in being really rude that all she was good for was organ donor. Had a heated conversation with my dad who got tired and said "fck off doctors".
Few days later she woke up. After revalidation she has a healthy life, this was 37yrs ago, she still lives, she is 71.
My dad told my awake mum and since I was underaged opted me out for organ donor. Needles to say, I am reluctant to opt myself back in.
Optional read: aftermath of the aneurism is that the part of the brain to process visual data was damaged. Other parts of her brain took that role but is not as effective. Her depth perception any further that 10m is gone. She has no vertical peripheral processing, so she has to tilt her head up or down to recognize what she noticed i' her peripheral, one cannot imagine this seeing something but unable to recognize until you point your head at it :) in the end, very good outcome.
Damn that's double fucked. What a disappointing story. I've still got myself down for organ donation because it's more likely to be done in good will than not, but that's a very sad story.
Do people pay for organ transplants where you are? I wonder if it's not necessarily altruism but money that is pushing the doctor's hand to jump the gun.
No people do not pay, it is a national waiting list of first come first go.
I live in Belgium, mom's doctors were from France (specialists). We are supposed to be at the top of free and good health care. So this did not happen in some back lawsless country. (don't mean this patronizing)
That's like donating to wikipedia, you think you're doing a good thing but they reveal pretty quickly how big of a mistake that actually was.
Why is that?
They require you give them an email and then once you do they spam it relentlessly.
Maybe they've changed because I donate and also contribute as an editor, and checking my email, I've only received one email* from them all year, and that was on January 6th titled "A record of your support for Wikipedia" from the Wikimedia Foundation, and it was a thanks and a tax receipt.
Maybe there's a consent checkbox somewhere that I don't remember unchecking.
*not counting notifications received in my role as contributor.
I've been registered for a while now. I really don't see a good reason not to, they only take 'em if I'm dead and what good are they to me then? Better going to someone in need.
Exactly this.... Something that, at the moment of donation, literally means less than zero to you, could literally be a new lease in life for someone else
Yes I am registered, because I ride motorcycles and I won't need my organs if I'm dead.
I like the system in Singapore. Organ donation is mandatory, though you can complete a form to opt out. If you're on the opt-out register, you have a lower priority to receive organ transplants. Fair is fair.
I feel like Singapore should be the gold standard of how to do most things that don't involve the justice system or surveillance. They seem to do most things right. Or maybe I'm just getting a golden picture? Lol
They pay their government leaders really well, which I think is kind of interesting.
This is often seen as a positive measure as well, because it reduces the risk of bribery and other sorts of corruption. One wouldn't risk an already great income for a chance to get a little extra.
I think there are examples of it working, and examples of it not. Singapore's system works as intended, but here's a list of yearly salaries for high-paid heads of state >$500,000 USD (sources from Wikipedia). Draw your own conclusions.
Cameroon President: $620,000
Denmark Queen: $11,000,000
Hong Kong Chief Executive: $568,000
Japan Emperor: $3,000,000
Jordan King: $848,000
Kuwait Emir: $165,000,000
Luxembourg Grand Duke: $12,000,000
Norway King: $33,000,000
Oman Sultan: $7,000,000 (could be a very old number)
Qatar Emir: $33,000,000
Saudi Arabia King: $9,600,000,000 ($9.6 billion)
Singapore President: $1,400,000
Singapore Prime Minister: $1,600,000
Switzerland President: $507,000
Syria President: $576,000
Tonga King $2,100,000
United Arab Emirates President: $4,600,000,000 ($4.6 billion)
Throwing this post out there for a bit of visibility and discussion.
For me, I just registered 5 minutes ago. Idgaf what they use my body for, as long as someone learns something it's a net positive at no expense to me.
So if a necrophiliac uses your dead body to "learn better techniques" you're cool with it?
As the great Frank Reynolds once said "Fill me up with cream, turn me into a cannoli, make a stew out of my ass. What's the big deal? Bang me, eat me, grind me up into little pieces, throw me in the river. Who gives a shit? Ya dead, ya dead."
Frank is truly a poet.
Shame I won't be around to share in the experience
Techniques to be a better lover? 🤔 For who?
Yep. Pessimistic about anything still being useful at this point, but hoping I am wrong.
There are also cadaver farms where they study how bodies decompose in different conditions to help with forensic science.
In Austria you have to register to NOT be an organ donor. So we have about 99% donors (after brain death). I am a donor too, as I neither care about my body once I am dead nor bother to register for anything.
Yes I am. As for why, my organs will save peoples lives,
I was already a donor before my sister died but it really solidified my stance when she saved three people's lives with her kidneys and liver. They needed it more than the crematorium needed them.
Here in Belgium everyone is a donor unless you register that you don't want to donate your organs.
Same default settings in France, although your organs can only be used for transplant. Using them for teaching and practicing in medical school still needs your explicit (prior) consent.
Yes. Probably been registered for more than 10 years now. I’m in Sweden and it was a super easy online form to fill in.
When I die there’s probably someone else who needs my organs more than me.
As a very strong believer in Danny DeVito's quote, "When I'm dead, just throw me in the trash!", if any medical party is even remotely interested in dumpster diving for my parts when I'm done with them, they can have 'em. Better than throwing them in a box and taking up land in a cemetary. The less of my remains uselessly taking up space on this planet after death, the better. If I get my way upon my demise, anything they don't take is going into the incinerator anyway.
Sounds like a Frank Reynolds quote!
Yes, definitely.
I received a live donor kidney transplant over a decade ago, and because of that, my quality of life drastically improved, and I lived long enough to meet my kid and my nieces and nephews.
I've got complex medical issues, so my organs might not be any good, but they're going to be available when I'm gone.
No, I'm one of those weird people that because my family moved to the UK when I was little in the late 80s for work for a year I'm under risk of mad cow disease and none of us can donate blood or organs. Learned that the sad way when trying to give blood in college, like half a dozen random things that can disqualify you that you might not realize.
FYI, in Australia they scrapped the rule a couple years ago and you would've been able to donate now (at least blood, not sure about organs).
Wherever you are, maybe check again if they've relaxed the rule.
Unfortunately I am in United States of Freedom. Good to know though, thanks.
It looks like they lifted the ban in the USA too? If you're still keen, do give them a ring.
You can donate your organs, if you die of a head injury. You cannot donate tissues like bone, skin, or corneas, because those are considered "life enhancing." Donated tissue has a similar restriction to donated blood, so you're right about that bit.
Organs like the kidneys, liver, heart, lung, pancreas, and stomach are "life saving" and don't have any restrictions. When you die, you'll be evaluated for any potential donation, and if you are a candidate for donating organs, someone will come talk to your family about it. Talk to your family about what you would want.
I'm set to donate my body to science. Maybe I even get to be a skeleton in a class room or sum 💀
Yes, I don't see why not. What else am I gonna do with my organs when I'm dead?
Up until now here in Germany we had a "system" that was a paper(!) card you put in your wallet if you were ok with donating your organs. That's obvioisly not an ideal system and Germany has far to few donors. We now moved to an online system and being Germany it's (as far as I've heard, I haven't tried it yet - which might be a sign that this is not going to be a great solution) is super complicated and convoluted. So basically even worse than the piece of paper in your wallet (seems impossible but for Germany business as usual when it comes to anything digital).
Personally this would be one of the very few things were I would be ok with something being opt-out instead of opt-in but I don't see that happening.
How weird that it's so different just over the border. Here in the Netherlands it's opt-out and afaik it was quite easy to enroll when it was still opt-in.
Apparently the paper card is still valid, there's the online thing and you can also put it in you advance directive(? that sounds made up, I mean "Patient*innenverfügung):
My spouse and I are registered to donate our bodies to a medical college. If we can advance medicine in even a small way, it is still a move to better life and health.
Best we can do is weird grift where no one bothers even remembering your names.
No, both to receive and give organs. I'm just not comfortable with the idea.
Look to be honest I don't agree with your stance but I respect the fact that you both don't wish to donate and more importantly receive. I fell some people would be quite happy to take but not give.
The real test is how they feel when they actually need the organs.
Not meaning to call anyone out, but it's easy to say no to organs when you're life isn't on the line.
Yes because why not. I doubt they will be of much use, but feel free to harvest anything you want. It would be the most useful I've been in my existence.
Yeah, why not? Wtf am I going to do with them when I'm dead?
Yes, it just feels like the right thing to do. Why let them go to waste if they can help someone else live.
I’m not. I’m aware of how selfish it is but something in my system of belief that I have (undefined? spiritual? no idea?) says that when I’m dead, I should be ALL dead.
Like, if there’s any kind of afterlife, will leaving a functioning part me behind hold up the transition? This even sounds fucked up to me because I’m 100% not religious at all.
I would just prefer all of me to be dead or all of me to be alive. Not fractions of both at the same time.
Don't think of it as selfish. Your body is one of the few things in this world that is truly, indisputably yours. It's entirely up to you if you're comfortable with donation. If you're not, there's no criticism to be made.
I'm the same way. The idea of some part of me living on and ending up who knows where freaks me out. (The same way I'd be, while extremely grateful, also weirded out having a transplant and knowing some dead person's inside me). And I guess I'd like to know with certainty I will be safe and AT REST in some place. Yes I understand that all of this is irrational. But no matter how many times I read these debates, I can't seem to let go and make it feel okay. Like you, I'm not religious.
So yeah I get that I sound cuckoo, the same way I think religions sound cuckoo. I guess this means I'm spiritual in a way, or just agnostic. Because if I was truly atheist, none of this would matter and I wouldn't care.
Also I like to think it's somehow related to me being a bit of a pack-rat (maybe not a hoarder, but definitely a pack-rat). I tend to ascribe feeling to objects and get attached and then can't throw stuff out. Lol.
That being said – I'd be all for it if my organs were given to a loved one. 100% no qualms about it.
I am not registered, but I have a organ donor card (where I approve organ donations).
Background:
Germany just recently (18th of March this year) launched an online database where you can register your preference. Until then there was only a small organ donor card that you could fill out and carry with you.
Reason I haven't registered there yet is that I first need to unlock the online function on my passport (nowadays always enabled, but I still have one from when it was optional). So I'll eventually get around to doing both.
As for my reasoning behind being a donor:
I would like to receive them in an emergency (or for someone I care about to do so).
And in case I become a donor I am not there anymore to care about what people do with my organs.
TIL, registering there right away.
I've had my donor card for a long time now (for about the same reasons as you), this solution seems at least a little better.
I would still very much welcome an "opt-out" system, or something that would make the decision mandatory for everyone. You can always say no with no questions ask, but there are likely so many people that would have no problem donating but just never thought about the topic.
Yeah, i'd have also loved if we moved to an "opt-out" system or one where you are asked to choose at some point.
If we had more than enough organs for everyone we might be able to afford the "luxury" to not adress the issue, but we don't. And compared to the very real consequences this deficit has, it really isn't a burden to reverse the burden through opt-out or at least force people to choose. Not making a choice has just as much consequences, if not more (since it leaves it ambiguous for others that might later have to make the choice for you).
And as you said the majority probably has no problem being a donor, but the default state is a form of apathy/lazyness/ignorance. So like with many other issues a top down approach would be way more effective, compared to putting the burden on every single individual to be proactive.
No need to register in Brazil, you just have to tell your family members, as they're asked whether or not they're ok with your organs being donated. I've already told my family to, once I die, donate all of my organs that might still be in good shape
I read this and assumed it was going to have a dark twist i.e. people just take them when you walk into the wrong favela.
Not american, so that link doesn't apply to me. Here everyone is a potential donor, and the family decides. My immediate family knows full well that my organs are FFA when I don't need them anymore.
In the US, it's actually up to the next of kin, too. When you die, they technically own your corpse. Registering basically just makes a record of your opinion. Even if you aren't registered, I think your family can decide to donate the spare parts
I'm registered to donate, they won't take them unless I get an expensive genetic test. My brother just passed away, and they wouldn't let him donate anything because we had an aunt a couple of generations ago who had Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (a prion disease that causes dementia)
the best thing i could ever do at the last moment of my life is help someone else get a second chance
Yeah but I wasn't for a long time. There was a spiderman cartoon where mary jane was targeted for murder because her name was in a database of organ donors and the villain needed her organs for his wife or something. scared the shit out of me when I was a kid and I had a knee jerk reaction when filling out the form I never really thought about. someone had to directly ask me before I realized I had based this decision on a cartoon I saw when I was 5.
What a message to give to kids, wow.
I think I'm ineligible. I think my sibling tried to register but was they were told they were ineligible because we lived in Europe in the 80's
What was in Europe in the 80s?
I think it was due to a minor Mad Cow disease outbreak. We were also ineligible to donate blood until about a couple years ago
Only way to find out is to check 👍
Chernobyl?
Yes I am.
When I die, my organs are no longer of any use to me, but could improve someone else's life. I'm not sentimental about my corpse. I'll donate anything that's still useful. I don't even mind if medical students use my bones to play pranks on each other. Heck, I think I'd prefer that.
I am and I hope to have everything unsalvageable cremated
Yes. I'd like to donate my body to science too, but I want to see if there's a way to do it non-profit. I'm not interested in helping make someone rich.
Lots of medical schools have programs.
Yep. Although I'm pretty sure no one would want them.
Yes because hopefully someone better than me will get them and make a real difference in the world.
Only because there's no box on the license application that says "donate body to be chummed and thrown on rich people".
But for real if my vacated body can save someone else's life or make it better by all means get that shit.
I am. Because why not?
Same, not like I'm gonna need them.
Yes, though my lifestyle may mean some are no good.
I don't know the specifics by country, but you could donate your body to science (medicine schools, etc.) Your life could be useful in the classroom 😄
Yes, because I'd want others to be if I needed it.
I'm volunteer to donate because of I accidentally die, rather that it deserve someone who would have more luck than me rather than no one.
Now in Belgium it works a bit differently. Everyone is, by default, considered as a donor.
You can then register to either refuse it or to impose it whatever your family says.
This is because the law is that the doctors must always ask the family if they are ok to give organs from diseased family member even with the "by default donor", with the registration you can say "don't ask my family and just do it".
This can be used in two situation in my opinion, the first one being family that have different conviction and may refuse despite the opinion of the diseased. The second situation (mine) being not wanting to worry grieving family with one more difficult decision to take.
Not sure if I'm completely registered, but any time I've been asked I check Yes, and I have it checked on my health card.
Like you said: "why not?" Not like I'll be using them any more at that point.
Yep. I'll be dead anyway, so I have no use for them anymore. If it can save someone's life then imo it'd be a bit selfish not to. I was already registered when it was still opt-in, but now it's become opt-out here in the Netherlands so even better. It'll make sure that a lot of people who don't care either way will now save life's that we otherwise wouldn't.
I am, but I probably shouldn't be. My organs are...not in the best shape.
Good news, we have a match for you!
Somewhat good news, your new lungs are little dinged up and have mileage on them.
Bad news, we're still charging you full price for these lungs. Enjoy your medical debt.
Your lungs have a best buy date. Good luck! Oh, and your new pancreas? Fuggetaboutit.
By default in our country. You have to unregister if you don't want it.
Yes, but I've since been diagnosed with leukemia.... Hopefully that doesn't mean my spare parts are trash but I suspect that's the case.
Nice try fed, won't get my organs that easily
Yes. My state makes it really easy, just check a box when renewing your ID or driver's license. I can only hope if I lost my life I could give a new lease on life to someone else.
Yes, because I won't need my organs when I'm dead.
Yes. And I volunteer plasma every 2 weeks. Up to 25 donations in a weeks time.
Organ donation is the last honorable / good thing you can do for the world after you've left. You'll be forgotten soon after dying, so might as well make it worth something
For everyone who says they're not comfortable with the idea of receiving, when you're in a desperate situation thinking of mortality, I'm sure you'll suddenly change your mind.
Even small things like when I was in Nepal, I've seen people turn desperate. When it comes down life or death, what choice do you have?
You can choose death, it's right there in the question.
I am not. HOWEVER, it is simply because my spouse will be the one to make the decision. Not that I don't trust doctors, but it's a decision my spouse and I talked about.
Your spouse or next of kin is always the one making that decision. Doctors don't transplant organs unless the family is on board with the decision, regardless of what you put on your license.
Yes however, I'm torn between either donating my organs or donating my body to science.
My thinking is I could maybe help save a couple of lives if my organs are in a decent enough state, although with my life style they probably wont be, or maybe my body could be used as a cadaver to train new doctors possibly saving a lot more lives.
Even if its not used for training doctors my thinking is that even a small amount learnt from the use of my body has got to help somewhere.
Oh wow, thanks for the heads up, im in the UK so not sure if things are different here but ill defo take your advice on that!
no, I will when I'm 18 tho
like others have said, I'm dead, idgaf
Not in the US but yes.
Yes. I can't think of a better use for them than saving a life (or hopefully lives) at the time when not only they're not going to be useful to me, but there will actually be no me to even be able to make use of them.
And I live a healthy life, so hopefully some of them might be useful whether I die of old age or any other cause (except falling into a meat grinder of course, then all this gym going and veg eating will be in vein).
Also, fingers crossed they'll find a dope body who's my HLA match and will need a brain transplant 🤞
Yeah dude, if I have anything they can use. It's not like I'll be using them anymore, and I have a couple of friends who've gotten donor organs, so I've seen firsthand how it impacts people. I tried to be a kidney donor for another friend but it turns out I don't have enough extra function that they thought I could give one away. I'm fine, my kidneys are just not going above and beyond, I guess.
Back on topic. I believe this is opt-out in my country (if it didn't change recently), so unless you specifically state that you want all your organs inside to feed the worms or to get more ash for your urn, you're automatically possible donor.
EDIT: Just checked, it's still opt-out. It's opt-in only for minors and incapacitated - their parents/legal representative have to agree.
Yes. Mostly because I have generally been healthy and used to ride a motorcycle.
Yeah, I'm registered, just in case the agency in charge manages to not fuck up that day.
Yes, in the case of an untimely death i could really help people.
I remember a guy went around to all the different country subs and asked what they thought about an opt-out organ donor policy instead of an opt-in donor. The results were interesting (which you can probably guess).
Yes. In fact, I just registered for this a few weeks ago.
Well, I can’t take them with me…
Not yet. As soon as some people in my country get to know I am registered, I am dead meat - worth my weight in gold. It’s dangerous.
People are downvoting you because they are probably from a Western country and haven't heard of this before.
To them I advise they Google "gangs hunting organ donors".
This absolutely happens in multiple countries.
I'm sorry you face this threat.
Yeah, but they aren’t going to like my liver.
Nope, I'm selfish
I think so? I should check though.
Friends and family know to strip me down for parts as aggressively as possible.
Yes. I check the organ donor box when I renew my driver's license. If I'm in an accident then I don't need 'em anymore. Let someone else use 'em.
I fear that medical personnel will give up on me way too easily and early if they know that I am a donor. Or that it's even rooted in malicious intent.
No. This world made me selfish.
My ID says I am, but I'm not registered anywhere else. Why did I have my ID say it? Because I felt like it that day when I renewed it. That's literally all there was to it.
Real talk though, I almost don't think I should be donating my organs. Why should the hospital get for free what they're going to charge a family hundreds of thousands of dollars for?
I got a double lung transplant 17 years ago when I was in my 20’s.
The actual logistics of transporting, then transplanting an organ is unbelievably complex.
Most of the cost is everything involved in the procedure. In fact I’d have to check me itemized bill and see if they actually charged for the actual lungs or just all the handling of them.
Anyways, someone’s generous choice has given me another 17 years on the planet. (I was born with cystic fibrosis, a genetic lung disease).
I am also an organ donor, if my eyes, skin, anything could help anyone else, I’m all for it. Hospital profit never even came to mind when thinking about choosing to be a donor or not.
Well, I never really thought about it until now either. Haha. Though, it was mostly a choice of apathy, since when I'm dead I won't really care what someone does with them, I only really get to pretend that I will while I'm alive today.
If they're not charging for my organs that get donated, then that's pretty cool. I mean, I was given mine for free, so it only makes sense to give them for free when I'm done with them.
Of course, I live in the middle of nowhere, so whether they'll find someone who can use my stuff before it goes bad is a whole different thing entirely.
It's good that you were able to find some lungs.
No. Religious reasons
That's a shitty religion then
I think we can be a little more respectful in our disagreement no?
Just stating the obvious. If it's really religion banning donating organs, not only do they take bodily autonomy from you but also the chance to help save someone else's life. That would be a shitty religion
The religion bans desecrating corpses, which includes dissection. Donating organs while alive is Ok
I stand with my original statement, if the religion favors dead over the living.
The religion can’t “ban” you, they don’t have governmental authority or a police force. The person chooses to participate and chooses not to donate. Unless they live in a particularly authoritarian theocracy it is likely this is a choice.
I disagree entirely with their decision but it’s important to not wildly mischaracterize it as not a decision. They can be an organ donor if they want and live their lives if they choose.
Yeah I mean of course they (usually) can't force you, but you'd go with religion's guidelines because you trust on the authority and peer pressure, potentially also threatened with eternal damnation of some sort.
Didn’t say it was a fair fight
You actually can't choose your beliefs. Either something convinces you or it doesn't. They could choose to not live in accordance with their beliefs, or course, but that would be intellectually dishonest.
I didn’t say you can choose your beliefs. This person can decide if they want to adhere to the rules of a religious apparatus or not. Millions of religious people around the world do this every day. Most people even under the banner of a religious institution choose to ignore or downplay key elements constantly. See: Catholics who support a woman’s access to abortion. They are not in line with the church. They know this and choose not to be while still attending church and believing in most of the church’s teaching.
Most people do not adhere to 100% every rule and regulation of their faith. Believe it or not religious people are capable of nuance.
Did you not read my second sentence then?
Yes. Clearly I did. If you’re not going to to respond substantively than just don’t respond.
Just as a pro-tip, "No." is a complete answer. You don't need religious reasons.
I worked as a transplant coordinator, and we talked to a lot of different people from a lot of different religions. This is something I wish I could have said to everyone who ever told me no because of religious reasons: I really hope you don't feel like you have to make up a reason.
We can start with, no organized religions specifically prohibit organ donation.
There are some religions, like Jehovah's Witnesses, that probibit receiving blood transfusions, but organ donation doesn't require blood transfusion, and the decision is left to the individual.
There are also some religions and folklore that believe the body must remain intact after death, but those beliefs are not consistent or particularly widespread. Some Shinto believers refuse donation to avoid angering the spirits of the dead, but that's also an individual choice rather than an official position.
So when we would discuss how to approach people of varying faiths, it was important to understand the underlying reasons for objections to donations. It's also important to recognize that, despite what is on your license, it's really not up to you. The transplant coordinator is talking to your next of kin, and they will be the one making the final decision. If I'm talking to you about donation, it's because someone close to you has died, and we're not discussing your beliefs. We will discuss what they would have wanted.
Nine times out of ten, when someone would cite religious objections, they were not members of an obscure Roma group or Shinto practitioners. We do have a significant number of Jehovah's Witnesses in our region, and our consent rates were roughly the same for those families. That might be different depending on where you live.
Far more likely for our region, people were using "religious reasons" as a social trump card that gives them an out without looking selfish. Donation is an uncomfortable concept for a lot of people, and you're talking to them at one of the worst times in their lives. Not everyone is up for having that conversation, and any transplant coordinator will understand when someone says "no." Still, a lot of people think they will get pressured to do something they aren't confortable with, and will make arguments they think "win" the discussion in the shortest amount of time.
The key is, I'm not going to tell you what you believe. I'm not your spiritual advisor or religious leader. I can help navigate those waters if asked, but if you say you have religious objections, I don't need to know what they are. You don't want to donate.
When I spoke with families, I was advocating for the people waiting for a transplant. There are people living better lives today because I was able to persuade donor families to overcome their objections. My second priority was making the process as comfortable for the families as possible. It made no difference to me whether those objections were religious or personal. If someone wanted to talk about it, we'd talk about it. If they couldn't, we didn't.
Others have mentioned in this thread that donors are exceptionally rare. Few people die in a way that makes donation possible. So when they do, their families are presented a unique situation where they are in a position to help others. Most people will help other people when they can, but the ones that don't aren't lesser humans. It isn't selfish to say that it's too much, too painful, too disturbing to think about. Because it is. You're in the acute phase of a significant loss. You do not need to justify your feelings, and you should not feel defensive about what you want for your loved one.
If you don't want to talk to someone about donation, you can just say "No."
What a thoughtful and informative response. Thank you for this!
I am curious, what are your religious beliefs on this? And would you be willing to accept a donated organ to save your life?
I am not sure why you are getting downvoted for answering the question. Yes, lemmy tends to have fewer religious people, but it's upsetting that others are quick to downvote anyone expressing their religious beliefs. Personally I am agnostic, however I respect that everyone has the right to their beliefs.
No. There are too many people on this planet.
No.
The topic came up among a table of paramedics and other first responders I was drinking with one night. Went down to the dmv and had the mark taken off my id the Monday after.
I think we need some more context, other than it's obviously not good like it's promoted as
Would love to know anything more about that reaction.
No, because you have to be alive to get harvested. This very moment all of life is leading to I don't want to get pumped with all they got to keep me alive to harvest all they can. I prefer to just die when the time has come.
You are not alive at that point. you are braindead. your heart is kept on pumping but you are definitely gone.
I am - in the UK - and I think that it should be opt out rather than opt in.
It is, they changed it a while back.
I'd go so far as to say there should be no choice available to opt out
I think the vast majority of people who, even if they have some discomfort around the idea, would not care enough to opt out. The only effect of not allowing opt out, I think, would be to cause considerable distress to those who do care a lot about not donating. I don't agree with their stance but I don't think they should be forced to donate, especially if we can get enough organs just from making it opt out instead of opt in
Wtf? The state doesn't own our bodies.
Neither do you, once you're dead.
How does it matter though once we're dead? It's only gonna help others in need
Just so everyone knows, you can't really transplant dead organs (at least not as safely or with the success of live organs).
They can only use your organs if you die in a hospital setting. They will keep pumping blood to your organs after you die to keep them "fresh" and "alive."
Post-death organ transfer exists but is way more risky than an organ that was recently in a living, functioning body.
So if you've ever considered it, keep in mind that you have to die at a hospital for it to happen, and even then, they're still technically forcing your body to be alive to keep these organs alive.
Source: Friend who lost his leg to amputation during a COVID-coma. They didn't think he would make it. He woke up in the donor ward. EDIT: Just to be clear, this happened during peak COVID before the vaccines when bodies were just piling up everywhere. I don't think a coma patient waking up in the donor ward is a normal thing, I think it happened because COVID was a fucked up situation and people were overwhelmed.
What does it even look like when you wake up in a donor ward? Was he a write-off and the doctors were just like 'oh shit, he's awake'? Do non-donors simply get disposed of instead of being brought there?
He's older and it's been tough to get explicit details from him, but yeah it sounds like because it was during COVID and beds for bodies were so scarce, on top of the fact that they didn't have high hopes for him surviving (so many people his age with COVID just never made it), that they were keeping in there for simplicity's sake. Anyway, it spurred me to begin looking into organ donation actually functions, and I mean, it makes sense, I just hadn't really thought about it before that you technically have to have your body being kept alive to be able to donate the organs. A rotting organ probably isn't very useful. That's why it usually happens with terminal patients where the outcome is 100% they are gonna die. During COVID, with bodies piling up, and lack of open beds in hospitals, it at least makes sense to me that he would have ended up there, in case he didn't wake up. It was pandemonium, at the time. Sadly, it seems to have kind of messed with his head to wake up in that situation, he's a lot less trustful of doctors now.
If I'd walk up from coma with one leg less, I might lose my trust in doctors too...
It’s not the leg amputation, I believe, they considered him “as good as dead” when he went into coma. He knew he was getting an amputation. What he didn’t expect was that he would wake up to a nightmare of being prepped for his other organs to be removed.
Damn that is a nightmare. That's not just trust issues, that's a legitimate traumatic event. That is trauma.
Sorry, I misunderstood your post.
I worked as a transplant coordinator for a few years, and you're mostly right, but there qre a few points I would clarify.
Dead is dead. All transplants are post death.
All of your organs need oxygen to keep functioning. When they don't have oxygen, the cells die and the organ stops working, but you can be dead and have functioning organs.
When your brain is deprived of oxygen, the neurons stop firing and you're gone. Dead is the irreversible cessation of brain activity. Sometimes organs can heal, but once your brain is gone, you're dead.
Sometimes that happens because your heart stops beating. The muscle in your heart can also die, and it will stop pumping blood. This heart failure deprives your brain of blood, and then you die. When your heart is failing, you can stimulate the heart to keep beating and continue to live. But if your heart stops beating and you die, that is called a cardiovascular death.
You may also lose oxygen due to a failure of the lungs. Lungs put oxygen in your blood, and if your lungs fail, you don't get oxygen to your brain and you die. This could be related to the lungs, the vasculature between the heart and lungs, or any combination of the three.
The liver and the kidneys work to filter the blood. If either of these fail, your blood can become toxic and poison your heart, your lungs, and/or your brain. The liver and kidneys also need oxygen to live, so if your heart stops beating or your lungs stop providing oxygen, then they will begin to die at the same time as your heart.
Like your organs, your muscles, skin, and nerves also need oxygen to live, and if you have trouble getting oxygen to your peripheral systems, your limbs can begin to die and become necrotic. Necrotic tissue creates a feedback loop of decay in your blood stream, and often requires amputation.
Covid affects both the lungs and the heart. Lung damage reduces oxygen in the blood, and heart failure reduces the flow of blood to the extremities.
Now, in the event of a traumatic brain injury, like a motorcycle accident, the brain can be killed before the other organs begin to die. The heart has a special mechanism that allows it to continue beating without input from the brain. These are ideal circumstances for organ donation, because the donor has died but their transplantable organs are in good condition.
It might be different in other countries, but in the USA, there is a network of transplant professionals that work together to procure and distribute transplants. They work with the hospitals to identify potential donors and talk to the families about donation options.
The hospital would call the local organ procurement organization every time any patient had a traumatic brain injury, even before they died. Patients would continue to receive treatment in the same area of the hospital by the same doctors and nurses. There is no "donor ward" and the only difference in treatment is that additional efforts will be made to keep the transplantable organs alive.
The patient's doctor wants to keep their brain alive along with everything else, and they only stop trying when it becomes impossible to succeed.
So, while I'm sure that your friend really did experience the loss of a limb, and I'm certain the OPO had dispatched a transplant coordinator to evaluate your friend for donation, there's no way the family was approached for possible donation without a dire prognosis (or maybe they asked). The approach would have been in the same conversation where they discuss withdrawing care because there is no hope.
The doctors and the family may have mentioned that they had discussed donation to demonstrate how dire the situation seemed, and how close to death your friend was, but they would not have altered his care at all or moved him to a special section for donors.
His parents both died of COVID while he was in the coma. While I'm sure you're very correct in everything you're saying, he was basically a "ward of the State" at that point, considering his "family" was now deceased. He was already on SSI when this happened, and his parents dying kind of fucked up a lot of things because suddenly he had an inheritance and Social Security cut off his SSI funding because now he had technically too much money to qualify.
That's fucked up. It must have been horrible to wake up to all of that.
As a ward of the state, he would have been assigned a case worker who would have been in charge of his care and end of life decisions. The TCs would have still tried to find next of kin or any family that could provide consent (and a medical and social history). Besides the legal implications, there's also a PR consideration. Transplant organizations are keenly aware of the public perception, and they will go to any lengths to avoid the narrative that the state killed someone to steal their organs. If there was a third cousin in Germany, they would have gotten a phone call before decisions were made.
ICU PA here who frequently deals with all of this. Amazing information, thank you.
Would just like to add to the conversation that tissue like corneas can still be donated in even circumstances where other more sensitive organs are nonviable. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
You're right, same with bone and skin.
Hey that's something! Maybe all this moisturising will pay off
This is why they call them donor-cycles! Also why early summer is peak donation time. Yay!
Sorry to hear about your friend.
I don't think knowing this fact should discourage anyone from choosing to be a donor, though. It just means that yeah, it's unlikely that you'll be in a position where they can use your organs when you die, but it doesn't hurt to be put on the list just in case.
Iirc, I think a lot of organ donations end up being from people in motor vehicle accidents.
I did get to see one case where they harvested the person's bones instead of their organs. Didn't even know that was a thing. I'm not sure if they died in a hospital setting or not. Might be you get more time to harvest bones as opposed to organs?
Oh yeah, I hope I don't dissuade anyone. I just hadn't ever really deeply thought about it before, despite being a registered organ donor. It's an interesting conundrum to me, because you need fresh, live organs, but you can't reasonably take those from fresh, live people most of the time, so you need people who are literally on death's door, who aren't going to make it, to have their bodies kept artificially alive for the purpose of organ transfer. COVID was just a fucked up situation all around with not enough beds and so many people dying. My friend had a rough experience, but it's hardly the norm.
Yeah I'm so glad that we're not still in that disaster. I mean, I know COVID is still out there, but thankfully in much smaller numbers and we have a much greater capacity to treat it nowadays... especially without hospitals being overwhelmed.
I've seen cases where patients actually ended up getting lung transplants in an attempt to save them with COVID. I handled the diseased lungs and they were so bizarre looking.
Wow, I didn't know about the covid lung transplants. If you don't mind me asking, could you describe the covid lungs/how they looked different to healthy lungs? Just morbidly curious
Sure thing. It's been a while and I've only seen a few, but I'll do my best.
So normal lungs are puffy enough, and smooth and glistening on the outside. On the inside, they resemble a kitchen sponge. They are soft and pliable, and able to easily contract and expand to inhale and exhale air.
In these COVID lungs, the outside was very ragged and shaggy. They were distorted with a lot of contracted areas. When you cut into it, there was some residual spongy areas, but a lot of it was white, firm, and solid. Think of how you might get a gnarly scar on your arm from a bit cut. Except instead of just being a single scar, almost the entirely of the lungs are scarred and firm. They aren't able to contract and expand easily anymore because of how firm and rigid they've become. And because they no longer have the spongy architecture, it means many of the airspaces are lost and there is far less areas for potential gas exchange.
So I'm not positive, but I'm fairly sure these COVID lung transplant attempts are primarily performed on younger patients after their body was able to clear the virus. It's just that in these individuals, although they no longer had COVID, the resulting scar tissue absolutely destroyed their lungs. It doesn't happen in every case thankfully...or even most cases, but when it does it's a bit scary.
I remember one of my cases being a young pregnant woman who had to be put on an ECMO machine (artificially oxygenates the blood when your heart and/or lungs cannot). I don't know whatever came of her, but I hoped she was able to go on and lead a relatively normal life.
You can read a bit more about this sort of thing here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstitial_lung_disease
Wow, that was really interesting. Thanks for typing that up
No problem. I get to see some nat things from time to time.
Judging by this comment thread I'm not the only one who's like "you can have them, but I don't know if you're going to want them"
There's some of us that probably have perfectly good organs, but due to various blood born viruses we can't donate even though we squashed the buggers with new medications.
Healthcare in the US is run for profit. From 2020 estimates, they charge $1.6 million for a heart transplant. $1.3 million to transplant a pair of lungs, $880 thousand for a liver, and $440 thousand for a kidney. This is what for profit hospitals charge patients while giving your next of kin nothing for the organs that made it possible.
They don't pay you for your organs. They will still bill your estate for any care other than the organ removal despite your generosity.
I would happily be an organ donor in a country with a non-profit healthcare system. But because of how heathcare is run in this country, I would rather my organs be left to rot.
I agree it's horrible, but also I don't see it as a large enough reason to not donate. The person receiving the organs is probably not the cause of this. It's like not working because your labor mostly goes to the elites. It's not a great plan, even if it does feel good.
Thankfully it's opt-out in Slovakia, so yes.
I'll be dead. Do whatever with my body. Take the organs, fuck it, feed it to animals, compost it, use it as shooting target, turn me into soap, I won't care. I literally won't be able to care. Why even decline?
I would buy your soap
id personally be ok if people didn't use my dead body as a shooting target. soap would be pretty nice tho.
Fuck it?
Woa
Twin.
I wish I could properly state the right of first sale he has, given it's his DNA (well, he has mine, anyway).
Fun fact: organs donated between perfect twins have no short- or long-term rejection issues. So unlike a regular donation that prolongs life for a decade or two, if he can drug me and steal my kidneys in sleazy Mexican motel, it's a permanent fix.
Hell, when I go, maybe he'll take a spare kidney or pancreas or something, and just, you know, hook them up. Totally fine with me.
Imagine taking everything. Splice both kidneys in there and get that ultra pure blood. Climb Mount Everest with no supplemental oxygen using a second set of lungs. Four nuts.
If I had a twin, he'd have to watch his back
That went unexpectedly dark.
I thought it was sweet
Why not both?
Darksweet. New fiction genre just dropped
Actually, from experience, this is how I would describe the humour of queer people I know.
No.
My mom got double brain aneurism. Had her head cut open to put clamps on the leaking arteries.
Slipped into a coma, few days later doctor came in to convince us for prepping her for organ donor, dad said it was too early.
Another few days later doctors came in being really rude that all she was good for was organ donor. Had a heated conversation with my dad who got tired and said "fck off doctors".
Few days later she woke up. After revalidation she has a healthy life, this was 37yrs ago, she still lives, she is 71.
My dad told my awake mum and since I was underaged opted me out for organ donor. Needles to say, I am reluctant to opt myself back in.
Optional read: aftermath of the aneurism is that the part of the brain to process visual data was damaged. Other parts of her brain took that role but is not as effective. Her depth perception any further that 10m is gone. She has no vertical peripheral processing, so she has to tilt her head up or down to recognize what she noticed i' her peripheral, one cannot imagine this seeing something but unable to recognize until you point your head at it :) in the end, very good outcome.
Damn that's double fucked. What a disappointing story. I've still got myself down for organ donation because it's more likely to be done in good will than not, but that's a very sad story.
Do people pay for organ transplants where you are? I wonder if it's not necessarily altruism but money that is pushing the doctor's hand to jump the gun.
No people do not pay, it is a national waiting list of first come first go. I live in Belgium, mom's doctors were from France (specialists). We are supposed to be at the top of free and good health care. So this did not happen in some back lawsless country. (don't mean this patronizing)
That's like donating to wikipedia, you think you're doing a good thing but they reveal pretty quickly how big of a mistake that actually was.
Why is that?
They require you give them an email and then once you do they spam it relentlessly.
Maybe they've changed because I donate and also contribute as an editor, and checking my email, I've only received one email* from them all year, and that was on January 6th titled "A record of your support for Wikipedia" from the Wikimedia Foundation, and it was a thanks and a tax receipt.
Maybe there's a consent checkbox somewhere that I don't remember unchecking.
*not counting notifications received in my role as contributor.
I've been registered for a while now. I really don't see a good reason not to, they only take 'em if I'm dead and what good are they to me then? Better going to someone in need.
Exactly this.... Something that, at the moment of donation, literally means less than zero to you, could literally be a new lease in life for someone else
Yes I am registered, because I ride motorcycles and I won't need my organs if I'm dead.
I like the system in Singapore. Organ donation is mandatory, though you can complete a form to opt out. If you're on the opt-out register, you have a lower priority to receive organ transplants. Fair is fair.
I feel like Singapore should be the gold standard of how to do most things that don't involve the justice system or surveillance. They seem to do most things right. Or maybe I'm just getting a golden picture? Lol
They pay their government leaders really well, which I think is kind of interesting.
This is often seen as a positive measure as well, because it reduces the risk of bribery and other sorts of corruption. One wouldn't risk an already great income for a chance to get a little extra.
I think there are examples of it working, and examples of it not. Singapore's system works as intended, but here's a list of yearly salaries for high-paid heads of state >$500,000 USD (sources from Wikipedia). Draw your own conclusions.
Throwing this post out there for a bit of visibility and discussion.
For me, I just registered 5 minutes ago. Idgaf what they use my body for, as long as someone learns something it's a net positive at no expense to me.
So if a necrophiliac uses your dead body to "learn better techniques" you're cool with it?
As the great Frank Reynolds once said "Fill me up with cream, turn me into a cannoli, make a stew out of my ass. What's the big deal? Bang me, eat me, grind me up into little pieces, throw me in the river. Who gives a shit? Ya dead, ya dead."
Frank is truly a poet.
Shame I won't be around to share in the experience
Techniques to be a better lover? 🤔 For who?
Yep. Pessimistic about anything still being useful at this point, but hoping I am wrong.
There are also cadaver farms where they study how bodies decompose in different conditions to help with forensic science.
In Austria you have to register to NOT be an organ donor. So we have about 99% donors (after brain death). I am a donor too, as I neither care about my body once I am dead nor bother to register for anything.
Yes I am. As for why, my organs will save peoples lives,
I was already a donor before my sister died but it really solidified my stance when she saved three people's lives with her kidneys and liver. They needed it more than the crematorium needed them.
Here in Belgium everyone is a donor unless you register that you don't want to donate your organs.
Same default settings in France, although your organs can only be used for transplant. Using them for teaching and practicing in medical school still needs your explicit (prior) consent.
Yes. Probably been registered for more than 10 years now. I’m in Sweden and it was a super easy online form to fill in.
When I die there’s probably someone else who needs my organs more than me.
As a very strong believer in Danny DeVito's quote, "When I'm dead, just throw me in the trash!", if any medical party is even remotely interested in dumpster diving for my parts when I'm done with them, they can have 'em. Better than throwing them in a box and taking up land in a cemetary. The less of my remains uselessly taking up space on this planet after death, the better. If I get my way upon my demise, anything they don't take is going into the incinerator anyway.
Sounds like a Frank Reynolds quote!
Yes, definitely.
I received a live donor kidney transplant over a decade ago, and because of that, my quality of life drastically improved, and I lived long enough to meet my kid and my nieces and nephews.
I've got complex medical issues, so my organs might not be any good, but they're going to be available when I'm gone.
No, I'm one of those weird people that because my family moved to the UK when I was little in the late 80s for work for a year I'm under risk of mad cow disease and none of us can donate blood or organs. Learned that the sad way when trying to give blood in college, like half a dozen random things that can disqualify you that you might not realize.
FYI, in Australia they scrapped the rule a couple years ago and you would've been able to donate now (at least blood, not sure about organs).
Wherever you are, maybe check again if they've relaxed the rule.
Unfortunately I am in United States of Freedom. Good to know though, thanks.
It looks like they lifted the ban in the USA too? If you're still keen, do give them a ring.
You can donate your organs, if you die of a head injury. You cannot donate tissues like bone, skin, or corneas, because those are considered "life enhancing." Donated tissue has a similar restriction to donated blood, so you're right about that bit.
Organs like the kidneys, liver, heart, lung, pancreas, and stomach are "life saving" and don't have any restrictions. When you die, you'll be evaluated for any potential donation, and if you are a candidate for donating organs, someone will come talk to your family about it. Talk to your family about what you would want.
Jesus, that's awful
I'm set to donate my body to science. Maybe I even get to be a skeleton in a class room or sum 💀
Yes, I don't see why not. What else am I gonna do with my organs when I'm dead?
Up until now here in Germany we had a "system" that was a paper(!) card you put in your wallet if you were ok with donating your organs. That's obvioisly not an ideal system and Germany has far to few donors. We now moved to an online system and being Germany it's (as far as I've heard, I haven't tried it yet - which might be a sign that this is not going to be a great solution) is super complicated and convoluted. So basically even worse than the piece of paper in your wallet (seems impossible but for Germany business as usual when it comes to anything digital).
Personally this would be one of the very few things were I would be ok with something being opt-out instead of opt-in but I don't see that happening.
How weird that it's so different just over the border. Here in the Netherlands it's opt-out and afaik it was quite easy to enroll when it was still opt-in.
Apparently the paper card is still valid, there's the online thing and you can also put it in you advance directive(? that sounds made up, I mean "Patient*innenverfügung):
https://www.organspende-info.de/organspendeausweis-ja-oder-nein/
My spouse and I are registered to donate our bodies to a medical college. If we can advance medicine in even a small way, it is still a move to better life and health.
Best we can do is weird grift where no one bothers even remembering your names.
No, both to receive and give organs. I'm just not comfortable with the idea.
Look to be honest I don't agree with your stance but I respect the fact that you both don't wish to donate and more importantly receive. I fell some people would be quite happy to take but not give.
The real test is how they feel when they actually need the organs.
Not meaning to call anyone out, but it's easy to say no to organs when you're life isn't on the line.
Yes because why not. I doubt they will be of much use, but feel free to harvest anything you want. It would be the most useful I've been in my existence.
Yeah, why not? Wtf am I going to do with them when I'm dead?
Yes, it just feels like the right thing to do. Why let them go to waste if they can help someone else live.
I’m not. I’m aware of how selfish it is but something in my system of belief that I have (undefined? spiritual? no idea?) says that when I’m dead, I should be ALL dead.
Like, if there’s any kind of afterlife, will leaving a functioning part me behind hold up the transition? This even sounds fucked up to me because I’m 100% not religious at all.
I would just prefer all of me to be dead or all of me to be alive. Not fractions of both at the same time.
Don't think of it as selfish. Your body is one of the few things in this world that is truly, indisputably yours. It's entirely up to you if you're comfortable with donation. If you're not, there's no criticism to be made.
I'm the same way. The idea of some part of me living on and ending up who knows where freaks me out. (The same way I'd be, while extremely grateful, also weirded out having a transplant and knowing some dead person's inside me). And I guess I'd like to know with certainty I will be safe and AT REST in some place. Yes I understand that all of this is irrational. But no matter how many times I read these debates, I can't seem to let go and make it feel okay. Like you, I'm not religious.
So yeah I get that I sound cuckoo, the same way I think religions sound cuckoo. I guess this means I'm spiritual in a way, or just agnostic. Because if I was truly atheist, none of this would matter and I wouldn't care.
Also I like to think it's somehow related to me being a bit of a pack-rat (maybe not a hoarder, but definitely a pack-rat). I tend to ascribe feeling to objects and get attached and then can't throw stuff out. Lol.
That being said – I'd be all for it if my organs were given to a loved one. 100% no qualms about it.
I am not registered, but I have a organ donor card (where I approve organ donations).
Background:
Germany just recently (18th of March this year) launched an online database where you can register your preference. Until then there was only a small organ donor card that you could fill out and carry with you.
Reason I haven't registered there yet is that I first need to unlock the online function on my passport (nowadays always enabled, but I still have one from when it was optional). So I'll eventually get around to doing both.
As for my reasoning behind being a donor:
I would like to receive them in an emergency (or for someone I care about to do so).
And in case I become a donor I am not there anymore to care about what people do with my organs.
TIL, registering there right away.
I've had my donor card for a long time now (for about the same reasons as you), this solution seems at least a little better. I would still very much welcome an "opt-out" system, or something that would make the decision mandatory for everyone. You can always say no with no questions ask, but there are likely so many people that would have no problem donating but just never thought about the topic.
Yeah, i'd have also loved if we moved to an "opt-out" system or one where you are asked to choose at some point.
If we had more than enough organs for everyone we might be able to afford the "luxury" to not adress the issue, but we don't. And compared to the very real consequences this deficit has, it really isn't a burden to reverse the burden through opt-out or at least force people to choose. Not making a choice has just as much consequences, if not more (since it leaves it ambiguous for others that might later have to make the choice for you).
And as you said the majority probably has no problem being a donor, but the default state is a form of apathy/lazyness/ignorance. So like with many other issues a top down approach would be way more effective, compared to putting the burden on every single individual to be proactive.
No need to register in Brazil, you just have to tell your family members, as they're asked whether or not they're ok with your organs being donated. I've already told my family to, once I die, donate all of my organs that might still be in good shape
I read this and assumed it was going to have a dark twist i.e. people just take them when you walk into the wrong favela.
Not american, so that link doesn't apply to me. Here everyone is a potential donor, and the family decides. My immediate family knows full well that my organs are FFA when I don't need them anymore.
In the US, it's actually up to the next of kin, too. When you die, they technically own your corpse. Registering basically just makes a record of your opinion. Even if you aren't registered, I think your family can decide to donate the spare parts
I'm registered to donate, they won't take them unless I get an expensive genetic test. My brother just passed away, and they wouldn't let him donate anything because we had an aunt a couple of generations ago who had Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (a prion disease that causes dementia)
the best thing i could ever do at the last moment of my life is help someone else get a second chance
Yeah but I wasn't for a long time. There was a spiderman cartoon where mary jane was targeted for murder because her name was in a database of organ donors and the villain needed her organs for his wife or something. scared the shit out of me when I was a kid and I had a knee jerk reaction when filling out the form I never really thought about. someone had to directly ask me before I realized I had based this decision on a cartoon I saw when I was 5.
What a message to give to kids, wow.
I think I'm ineligible. I think my sibling tried to register but was they were told they were ineligible because we lived in Europe in the 80's
What was in Europe in the 80s?
I think it was due to a minor Mad Cow disease outbreak. We were also ineligible to donate blood until about a couple years ago
Only way to find out is to check 👍
Chernobyl?
Yes I am.
When I die, my organs are no longer of any use to me, but could improve someone else's life. I'm not sentimental about my corpse. I'll donate anything that's still useful. I don't even mind if medical students use my bones to play pranks on each other. Heck, I think I'd prefer that.
I am and I hope to have everything unsalvageable cremated
Yes. I'd like to donate my body to science too, but I want to see if there's a way to do it non-profit. I'm not interested in helping make someone rich.
Lots of medical schools have programs.
Yep. Although I'm pretty sure no one would want them.
Yes because hopefully someone better than me will get them and make a real difference in the world.
Only because there's no box on the license application that says "donate body to be chummed and thrown on rich people".
But for real if my vacated body can save someone else's life or make it better by all means get that shit.
I am. Because why not?
Same, not like I'm gonna need them.
Yes, though my lifestyle may mean some are no good.
I don't know the specifics by country, but you could donate your body to science (medicine schools, etc.) Your life could be useful in the classroom 😄
Yes, because I'd want others to be if I needed it.
I'm volunteer to donate because of I accidentally die, rather that it deserve someone who would have more luck than me rather than no one.
Now in Belgium it works a bit differently. Everyone is, by default, considered as a donor.
You can then register to either refuse it or to impose it whatever your family says.
This is because the law is that the doctors must always ask the family if they are ok to give organs from diseased family member even with the "by default donor", with the registration you can say "don't ask my family and just do it".
This can be used in two situation in my opinion, the first one being family that have different conviction and may refuse despite the opinion of the diseased. The second situation (mine) being not wanting to worry grieving family with one more difficult decision to take.
Not sure if I'm completely registered, but any time I've been asked I check Yes, and I have it checked on my health card.
Like you said: "why not?" Not like I'll be using them any more at that point.
Yep. I'll be dead anyway, so I have no use for them anymore. If it can save someone's life then imo it'd be a bit selfish not to. I was already registered when it was still opt-in, but now it's become opt-out here in the Netherlands so even better. It'll make sure that a lot of people who don't care either way will now save life's that we otherwise wouldn't.
I am, but I probably shouldn't be. My organs are...not in the best shape.
Good news, we have a match for you!
Somewhat good news, your new lungs are little dinged up and have mileage on them.
Bad news, we're still charging you full price for these lungs. Enjoy your medical debt.
Your lungs have a best buy date. Good luck! Oh, and your new pancreas? Fuggetaboutit.
By default in our country. You have to unregister if you don't want it.
Yes, but I've since been diagnosed with leukemia.... Hopefully that doesn't mean my spare parts are trash but I suspect that's the case.
Nice try fed, won't get my organs that easily
Yes. My state makes it really easy, just check a box when renewing your ID or driver's license. I can only hope if I lost my life I could give a new lease on life to someone else.
Yes, because I won't need my organs when I'm dead.
Please don't bury me down in the cold cold ground
In all seriousness I'd rather they cut me up and pass me all around.
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Yes. And I volunteer plasma every 2 weeks. Up to 25 donations in a weeks time.
Organ donation is the last honorable / good thing you can do for the world after you've left. You'll be forgotten soon after dying, so might as well make it worth something
For everyone who says they're not comfortable with the idea of receiving, when you're in a desperate situation thinking of mortality, I'm sure you'll suddenly change your mind.
Even small things like when I was in Nepal, I've seen people turn desperate. When it comes down life or death, what choice do you have?
You can choose death, it's right there in the question.
I am not. HOWEVER, it is simply because my spouse will be the one to make the decision. Not that I don't trust doctors, but it's a decision my spouse and I talked about.
Your spouse or next of kin is always the one making that decision. Doctors don't transplant organs unless the family is on board with the decision, regardless of what you put on your license.
Yes however, I'm torn between either donating my organs or donating my body to science.
My thinking is I could maybe help save a couple of lives if my organs are in a decent enough state, although with my life style they probably wont be, or maybe my body could be used as a cadaver to train new doctors possibly saving a lot more lives.
Even if its not used for training doctors my thinking is that even a small amount learnt from the use of my body has got to help somewhere.
I would highly recommend donating to a specific organization rather than as a "uniform anatomical gift". Unless you're fine with being sold by a body broker and used for explosives/crash testing, or forensic entomological decomposition research: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bodies-donated-to-science-largely-unregulated-cbs-reports/
Oh wow, thanks for the heads up, im in the UK so not sure if things are different here but ill defo take your advice on that!
no, I will when I'm 18 tho
like others have said, I'm dead, idgaf
Not in the US but yes.
Yes. I can't think of a better use for them than saving a life (or hopefully lives) at the time when not only they're not going to be useful to me, but there will actually be no me to even be able to make use of them.
And I live a healthy life, so hopefully some of them might be useful whether I die of old age or any other cause (except falling into a meat grinder of course, then all this gym going and veg eating will be in vein).
Also, fingers crossed they'll find a dope body who's my HLA match and will need a brain transplant 🤞
Yeah dude, if I have anything they can use. It's not like I'll be using them anymore, and I have a couple of friends who've gotten donor organs, so I've seen firsthand how it impacts people. I tried to be a kidney donor for another friend but it turns out I don't have enough extra function that they thought I could give one away. I'm fine, my kidneys are just not going above and beyond, I guess.
Reminds me of this gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp-pU8TFsg0
Back on topic. I believe this is opt-out in my country (if it didn't change recently), so unless you specifically state that you want all your organs inside to feed the worms or to get more ash for your urn, you're automatically possible donor.
EDIT: Just checked, it's still opt-out. It's opt-in only for minors and incapacitated - their parents/legal representative have to agree.
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Yes. Mostly because I have generally been healthy and used to ride a motorcycle.
Yeah, I'm registered, just in case the agency in charge manages to not fuck up that day.
Yes, in the case of an untimely death i could really help people.
I remember a guy went around to all the different country subs and asked what they thought about an opt-out organ donor policy instead of an opt-in donor. The results were interesting (which you can probably guess).
Yes. In fact, I just registered for this a few weeks ago.
Well, I can’t take them with me…
Not yet. As soon as some people in my country get to know I am registered, I am dead meat - worth my weight in gold. It’s dangerous.
People are downvoting you because they are probably from a Western country and haven't heard of this before.
To them I advise they Google "gangs hunting organ donors".
This absolutely happens in multiple countries.
I'm sorry you face this threat.
Yeah, but they aren’t going to like my liver.
Nope, I'm selfish
I think so? I should check though.
Friends and family know to strip me down for parts as aggressively as possible.
Yes. I check the organ donor box when I renew my driver's license. If I'm in an accident then I don't need 'em anymore. Let someone else use 'em.
No. Ineligible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mET6fhKymR8
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Due to my own medical reasons, I'm not.
No.
No. This world made me selfish.
My ID says I am, but I'm not registered anywhere else. Why did I have my ID say it? Because I felt like it that day when I renewed it. That's literally all there was to it.
Real talk though, I almost don't think I should be donating my organs. Why should the hospital get for free what they're going to charge a family hundreds of thousands of dollars for?
I got a double lung transplant 17 years ago when I was in my 20’s.
The actual logistics of transporting, then transplanting an organ is unbelievably complex.
Most of the cost is everything involved in the procedure. In fact I’d have to check me itemized bill and see if they actually charged for the actual lungs or just all the handling of them.
Anyways, someone’s generous choice has given me another 17 years on the planet. (I was born with cystic fibrosis, a genetic lung disease).
I am also an organ donor, if my eyes, skin, anything could help anyone else, I’m all for it. Hospital profit never even came to mind when thinking about choosing to be a donor or not.
Well, I never really thought about it until now either. Haha. Though, it was mostly a choice of apathy, since when I'm dead I won't really care what someone does with them, I only really get to pretend that I will while I'm alive today.
If they're not charging for my organs that get donated, then that's pretty cool. I mean, I was given mine for free, so it only makes sense to give them for free when I'm done with them.
Of course, I live in the middle of nowhere, so whether they'll find someone who can use my stuff before it goes bad is a whole different thing entirely.
It's good that you were able to find some lungs.
No. Religious reasons
That's a shitty religion then
I think we can be a little more respectful in our disagreement no?
Just stating the obvious. If it's really religion banning donating organs, not only do they take bodily autonomy from you but also the chance to help save someone else's life. That would be a shitty religion
The religion bans desecrating corpses, which includes dissection. Donating organs while alive is Ok
I stand with my original statement, if the religion favors dead over the living.
The religion can’t “ban” you, they don’t have governmental authority or a police force. The person chooses to participate and chooses not to donate. Unless they live in a particularly authoritarian theocracy it is likely this is a choice.
I disagree entirely with their decision but it’s important to not wildly mischaracterize it as not a decision. They can be an organ donor if they want and live their lives if they choose.
Yeah I mean of course they (usually) can't force you, but you'd go with religion's guidelines because you trust on the authority and peer pressure, potentially also threatened with eternal damnation of some sort.
Didn’t say it was a fair fight
You actually can't choose your beliefs. Either something convinces you or it doesn't. They could choose to not live in accordance with their beliefs, or course, but that would be intellectually dishonest.
I didn’t say you can choose your beliefs. This person can decide if they want to adhere to the rules of a religious apparatus or not. Millions of religious people around the world do this every day. Most people even under the banner of a religious institution choose to ignore or downplay key elements constantly. See: Catholics who support a woman’s access to abortion. They are not in line with the church. They know this and choose not to be while still attending church and believing in most of the church’s teaching.
Most people do not adhere to 100% every rule and regulation of their faith. Believe it or not religious people are capable of nuance.
Did you not read my second sentence then?
Yes. Clearly I did. If you’re not going to to respond substantively than just don’t respond.
Just as a pro-tip, "No." is a complete answer. You don't need religious reasons.
I worked as a transplant coordinator, and we talked to a lot of different people from a lot of different religions. This is something I wish I could have said to everyone who ever told me no because of religious reasons: I really hope you don't feel like you have to make up a reason.
We can start with, no organized religions specifically prohibit organ donation.
There are some religions, like Jehovah's Witnesses, that probibit receiving blood transfusions, but organ donation doesn't require blood transfusion, and the decision is left to the individual.
There are also some religions and folklore that believe the body must remain intact after death, but those beliefs are not consistent or particularly widespread. Some Shinto believers refuse donation to avoid angering the spirits of the dead, but that's also an individual choice rather than an official position.
So when we would discuss how to approach people of varying faiths, it was important to understand the underlying reasons for objections to donations. It's also important to recognize that, despite what is on your license, it's really not up to you. The transplant coordinator is talking to your next of kin, and they will be the one making the final decision. If I'm talking to you about donation, it's because someone close to you has died, and we're not discussing your beliefs. We will discuss what they would have wanted.
Nine times out of ten, when someone would cite religious objections, they were not members of an obscure Roma group or Shinto practitioners. We do have a significant number of Jehovah's Witnesses in our region, and our consent rates were roughly the same for those families. That might be different depending on where you live.
Far more likely for our region, people were using "religious reasons" as a social trump card that gives them an out without looking selfish. Donation is an uncomfortable concept for a lot of people, and you're talking to them at one of the worst times in their lives. Not everyone is up for having that conversation, and any transplant coordinator will understand when someone says "no." Still, a lot of people think they will get pressured to do something they aren't confortable with, and will make arguments they think "win" the discussion in the shortest amount of time.
The key is, I'm not going to tell you what you believe. I'm not your spiritual advisor or religious leader. I can help navigate those waters if asked, but if you say you have religious objections, I don't need to know what they are. You don't want to donate.
When I spoke with families, I was advocating for the people waiting for a transplant. There are people living better lives today because I was able to persuade donor families to overcome their objections. My second priority was making the process as comfortable for the families as possible. It made no difference to me whether those objections were religious or personal. If someone wanted to talk about it, we'd talk about it. If they couldn't, we didn't.
Others have mentioned in this thread that donors are exceptionally rare. Few people die in a way that makes donation possible. So when they do, their families are presented a unique situation where they are in a position to help others. Most people will help other people when they can, but the ones that don't aren't lesser humans. It isn't selfish to say that it's too much, too painful, too disturbing to think about. Because it is. You're in the acute phase of a significant loss. You do not need to justify your feelings, and you should not feel defensive about what you want for your loved one.
If you don't want to talk to someone about donation, you can just say "No."
What a thoughtful and informative response. Thank you for this!
I am curious, what are your religious beliefs on this? And would you be willing to accept a donated organ to save your life?
I am not sure why you are getting downvoted for answering the question. Yes, lemmy tends to have fewer religious people, but it's upsetting that others are quick to downvote anyone expressing their religious beliefs. Personally I am agnostic, however I respect that everyone has the right to their beliefs.
No. There are too many people on this planet.
No.
The topic came up among a table of paramedics and other first responders I was drinking with one night. Went down to the dmv and had the mark taken off my id the Monday after.
I think we need some more context, other than it's obviously not good like it's promoted as
Would love to know anything more about that reaction.
No, because you have to be alive to get harvested. This very moment all of life is leading to I don't want to get pumped with all they got to keep me alive to harvest all they can. I prefer to just die when the time has come.
You are not alive at that point. you are braindead. your heart is kept on pumping but you are definitely gone.