When I got the Yaris I heard people make snide comments like "Anyone see that big guy get out of that tiny car?" then gas prices went up and they became "Hey, what kind of MPG does that thing get?"
I like hatchbacks. Bigger is fine but nothing huge.
My current car is an '07 Yaris. It's totally bare bones, but everyone who has been in it comments on how spacious the interior is.
I've always driven small cars, because they're economical and I've never needed anything larger. I hate that small hatchbacks are so scarce in the US and that our roads are overrun with ludicrously huge pickups and SUVs. We transitioned from land yachts to small cars in the late 1970's and 1980's, we could do it again with the right incentives.
I drive an Auris station wagon Hybrid (aka, the US Corolla iM with bigger boot). I had a chance to drive multiple Yaris generations and honestly I am always surprised by how roomy it is inside. They made a perfect use of space - way better than VW did with Polo (smaller Golf), that’s for sure…
I can't even remember what year mine was. It was the first year it was in the US. Was a decent car. Good milage. But it chewed through water pumps so bad. It was either loud squealing belt or too tight causing it to killed the pump. Never could get it "just right"
That's too bad. I have 189,000 miles on mine (304,000 km) and it's never let me down. I haven't had to do anything but regular maintenance on it. I wanted to replace it with something a bit newer and nicer, but had to replace the car my wife and daughter share, instead. Fortuately, I don't drive very much so it will probably hold out for a few more years.
I love that this has become the hatchback and Yaris love thread. As a GTI owner it makes me happy. I do not want nor need to go any bigger. It's almost the perfect car.
My Yaris is actually older than me. so old in fact, that it was called "vitz" and/or "echo" in some countries. i am the 4th owner. had to replace the starter, all the fluids and the clutch (cuz old people). best car ever. it has around 100.000 km on it and runs like it rolled out of the factory just yesterday. considering we euros pay up to 7€ per gallon it's good i still get around 40mpg out of it. love that thing.
Americans need to embrace public transit. We need trains that don't completely suck in both speed and schedule reliability.
We're never going to convince a lot of folks to leave their lifted F-150 or massive Suburban behind for a small car. But quality, affordable public transit that is not only efficient but saves money over owning a car would actually make a difference. We're more likely to be able to get people to just leave the F-150 in the driveway and eventually move away from it.
Much better for the environment, too, and reduces traffic / congestion, etc. I agree smaller cars would be good, but the goalpost should be getting away from the automobile.
Americans have absolutely embraced public transit. It’s just that not a lot of cities have robust systems in place, but go somewhere like NYC or Chicago and you’ll see a transit system that millions rely on daily.
Public transit needs to do what it says on the tin. People won't choose public transit if it's the choice between an hour commute each way and a 3 hour each way bus ride.
I think there should be a separate license to drive SUVs and Trucks over a certain size. And that maintaining that license should be a bit of a hassle - like a required in-person written and practical test every 2 years. If people want that commanding view of the road and "safe" feeling that comes from endangering everyone else on the road, then they should have to put in some extra effort - not enough extra effort that it's unattainable for those who actually have a need for a vehicle of that size, but enough effort that it would discourage the widespread use we have currently.
Also, during your SUV probationary period you have to drive a Suzuki Samurai for two years or so.
I'd love to have a motorcycle that would replace my current vehicle, but it would need to be capable of keeping me warm while handling well in heavy snow. Afaik, there aren't any enclosed bikes out there
The US EPA currently penalizes smaller cars thanks to a poorly thought out rule for fuel economy that scales by wheelbase size, making larger cars easier to meet requirements for. The EPA has made many embarrassingly backwards decisions, but this might be the worst.
I was taxed an extra $150 to register a 2002 Honda Insight last year. It was for a "Hybrid Tax" because hybrid owners buy less gas and therefore are paying less tax on gasoline. Like, that's the whole point of driving a small car!
some reasons for the raise of vehicle size on the last decades are personal taste, but others are policy driven, we could look into that, as utility vehicles are treated differently in terms of emission requirements
Yup - in the US, pick-ups and SUVs are categorized as "light trucks," which have different fuel efficiency and emission standards and are therefore more profitable to produce.
Add to that some clever marketing to the effect of "big car = more manly/safe" and boom, now you see these big, stupid, fuel-ineffecient, dangerous vehicles everywhere.
Good job 👍
Not just that but the standards are also more lenient if the car is larger for its class which is part of why even small cars are bigger now.
I have heard also that a big car is better because a big car crashing with other bigger cars will increase the probability of surviving, but then it's a war of having the biggest car. It's basically the same as weapons.
Whenever I'm in the States I hate the fact that everything is a 20 minute car ride away. I understand why road rage can be a thing if you spend so much time in the car.
Or walkable zoning, lack of which is the fundamental cause of the car dependency.
The lack of continuous sidewalks drives me nuts. A developer might put in a sidewalk but the one next to them doesn't. Sometimes you are walking alongside a ditch or have to cross a busy road to continue on.
As much as I'm inclined to agree with @MaggiWuerze@feddit.de, the real reason is typically that all new developments are required to include sidewalks, but existing ones aren't required to retrofit. So you get a patchwork of sidewalks installed over time as things get torn down and rebuilt.
The "annoying and pedestrian hostile" part is municipalities' unwillingness to infill sidewalks in front of old developments at taxpayer expense.
Almost like it's designed to be annoying and pedestrian hostile
My dream car is a Nash Metropolitan converted to an EV.
That would be fucking dope. I'd love for retrofuturist cars like this to appear
That's a pretty sweet ride.
I wish we got the Honda E. Would buy that up in a heartbeat.
Definitely would love a Honda E, got a Chevy Bolt EV as it seemed like the next best option here.
I'm usually not a hatch fan but that little car looked awesome. I got my last new gas powered manual transmission car before EVs are the main thing. Since I work from home and don't drive a bunch my plan is to keep it as long as I can and get an EV in 4-5 years when hopefully infrastructure catches up a bit and more manufacturers have an option and work out small kinks.
Bro if you could get a used leaf gen one (they run around 4k), you could take that thing to a drag strip and absolutely turn some heads.
I have a friend who wants to take my gen one leaf and do a conversion. He just went to an EV mechanics course on it.
Same with a 1959 Panhard PL 17. Some of those little old cars are just beautiful.
Give me a new El Camino EV with a 400 mile range and I'm in.
All my road trips are around 150 miles and there may or may not be a charger at the destination.
The article says range isn't important...if you've ever looked at a map of the US, you'll see why that's a misguided statement.
To be fair, most people aren't driving across the US on an even yearly basis, if ever in their lives.
400 miles doesn't get you halfway across a single state in the western US.
But it definitely gets you to the next fast charger to get an 80 percent charge in 10 minutes.
That's only relevant if you have a mythical car that can charge to 80 in 10 minutes. My car does it in about 90, the Solterra I almost bought has something like a 60 minute 10-80% charge time, and the fastest charging car on the market right now is the EV6 which is (IIRC) still 18 minutes to 80%.
Nevermind that the estimated 350 mile range in an ICE car is pretty spot on, where as a 250 mile range in an EV is best case scenario.
I own an EV, I think EVs are the future, but they're not there quite yet. Not completely, and not in a way that can compete with a RAV-4, CR-V, or Forester in terms of miles traveled and minutes spent filling up. And often, locations where you want to stop, aren't the same locations that have a fast charger.
Yup, I'm OK with a Ranchero EV with a 150 mile range.
Just city to city is typically at least 150mi one way. Maybe on the southern coasts, if I was really a homebody, could I get away with something under 150mi range.
There's no way anyone in Texas is going anywhere in a standard range EV for example.
I drove from Minnesota to Kansas in an EV. Wasn't too bad, just a few stops to charge. I needed to eat and go for a walk, anyways
95% of trips are 30 miles or less. Of course everyone is the exception, we’re all above average drivers here.
A car is too big of an investment to fail to take you from point A to B 1 in every 20 trips.
I guess I'm in the 5 percent? But still small cars can take long trips. That's a frustrating thing, people assuming you need a modern day Conestoga wagon to do a road trip.
So I live in the cousin-fuckingly-deep south where 90% of what's on the road is trying its best to be a monster truck... I drive what looks like a pregnant rollerskate by comparison cuz I don't want to send half my paycheck into the gas tank.
It's funny-sad how the folks in the giant trucks get offended just by seeing my tiny car. Every day there's always at least one asshole in an F-350 or some shit that likes to ride up on my ass cuz I guess it makes them feel powerful? I just drop a mph every couple seconds until either they fuck off or get annoyed enough to pass.
Anyway, moral of the story is that stupid-big vehicles are here to stay in the US, at least in the regions occupied by Y'all Quaeda. Their trucks are one of their few sources of self esteem.
...I'm really tempted to find one of those rubber testicle things that the cowboys like to put between the rear wheels of their trucks, but like a comically tiny one, color it like the trans flag, and hang it on the back of my tiny car just to annoy the rednecks on the road. ...although here, that'd probably get my car or myself shot.
I got the chevy spark right before it got discontinued and the amount of people who comment on my small car in the south is obsurd. It's great being able to fit into a parking spot between 2 monster trucks and it only costs like 25 dollars for a tank of gas. People who see vehicles as more than just a means of transportation baffles me. I like the tiny truck nuts idea I might have to steal that.
Forget small cars, we should be embracing non-motorized ways of transit. Make things human-sized again and allow us to walk and/or bike to destinations rather than having to have a motorized vehicle to get around.
Public transit is obviously a good thing to have, but I think it’s also important to have alternate forms of transit as well.
I was just on Block Island, RI the other day. It’s a 10mi^2 island with ferry service and an airport square in the middle of it. Very seasonal economy and the residents are wealthy NIMBY-types.
No trams or trolleys or any mass transit on the island itself. Lots of mopeds and bikes and a surprising amount of cars. We were on foot to a restaurant and approached a 4-way stop and both myself (pedestrian) and the bicyclist next to me were amazed at how hard it was to cross the street with all the taxis and rental cars around.
What a shame. The island should be a model of an ideal “minimal car” community, and could easily become it.
So much this. It's infuriating to have to get in a car every time you want to go outside your neighborhood.
I recommend moving to a city
In the US, it's really only NYC and Chicago that have functioning public transit. If you can't go to one of those, you're pretty much out of luck. It's not like in Europe where every little small to mid-size town has light rail and train connections all over.
That's all fun and games until weather happens...and weather is going to happen a lot going forward.
I moved to Europe, grew up in New York near the City and decided to get a moped here to commute. It's roughly equivalent to an Ebike but was actually cheaper than one and has a 100km range. It's not highway legal as it has a top speed of 45km/h but can go on bike paths as long as I watch the speed.
After 3 months since I got the moped I am going to get a car because FUCK going to the office in the rain with that thing. The trains and/or busses go on strike about once a month, maybe a little less, and between delays and cancelations I can't rely on them for my commute. I've literally been waiting for the bus and the driver just decides not to stop to pick me up too. Also packages don't get reliably dropped off at my front door so I need to go into town or to the supermarket next to the highway to pick up my things which becomes untenable when they are bulky. Instead I'm taking taxis at a cost of €30 each way just to pick up shit that should be left at my door.
The dissonance is strong, I still need a car, and I still need one big enough to move bulky crap at least once a month if not more.
And before someone says rent a car, it's €70+ a day to do so here and I have a preferred account through my employer. I need to book it in advance so it's not a "same day" thing. Oh and the places they drop the packages off have weird fucking opening times and are often closed when they should be open so I've literally spent €60 on taxis to come home with nothing. That time the seller did me a solid and refunded me the €60 as an apology (it was a €350 item).
Cars have gotten bigger externally, but internally it seems storage space is actually going down. My 2014 Nissan Note has a 10% larger storage capacity than a 2023 Renault Espace, even tho the latter is 50cm larger in all three dimensions and is literally called 'spatious'.
I drive a fucking roadster from 2001 and somehow it has more internal space than a 2021 sedan.
And the crumple zone is your legs, twice the use for the same space!
Jokes aside this whole thread could be summarised as 'safety' for the most part.
You're partly right, but manufacturers aren't just adding more crumple space, they are mainly building bigger and heavier vehicles. And that does not equal safety. Sure the crumple zone might be bigger, but the force of a crash is multitudes higher which results in a net negative, especially for pedestrians and cyclists
They also cover more and more with plastic panels. They are putting a lot into making something look sleek and that's at the cost of usable space.
It's 2001 not 1978, how bad do you think cars were 20 years ago?
It's time for Americans to stop spending so much time in their cars. Emissions from burning hydrocarbons are destroying the planet.
Problem is that American cities were designed around cars. Getting anywhere on foot, especially for those who live in suburban areas, is basically impossible.
It's not just the cities. Try living anywhere in the US that's not a city.
I'm not saying you are wrong, because you are definitely right, but I just want to put some context/scale along side this.
28% of greenhouse gas emission comes from transportation. of that 28%, 58% of that is classified as light-medium duty vehicles (consumer vehicles). So ~16% (58% of 28%) of greenhouse emissions are from consumer daily life.
16% is pretty big. Id love to see a dent in that. However, another 48% of the overall greenhouse emissions is energy production (25%) and industry (23%), and I think that's another area we can probably hammer on hard, and should probably start there since its a considerably larger percentage, and the targeted base actually has funds to make changes.
Here we have higher taxes for cars more than 4m long, so there are lots of small cars. Also, a lot of 3.99m cars.
Japan bases their taxes on engine size and gives significant tax brakes to cars 660cc and under. 3.0L and up are basically luxury vehicles there.
I have a Volt, and I resent how few compact hybrid options there will be when I get a replacement. When I drive around, I literally struggle to see around the giant land boats cruising around. They hold up parking lots trying to stuff themselves into spaces, and if I get hit by one I'm much more likely to be injured. Average car size is kind of a tragedy of the commons. Everyone suffers when the cars get bigger, but the individuals with the dumb land boats suffer little of the cost.
tragedy of the commons
TILAW (today I learned a word):
The tragedy of the commons is a metaphoric label for a concept that is widely discussed in economics, ecology and other sciences. According to the concept, should a number of people enjoy unfettered access to a finite, valuable resource such as a pasture, they will tend to over-use it, and may end up destroying its value altogether. To exercise voluntary restraint is not a rational choice for individuals – if they did, the other users would merely supplant them – yet the predictable result is a tragedy for all.
Yes, the metaphor has fallen out of fashion for a lot of reasons, including that the guy who coined the expression turned out to be a real piece of shit, but the core concept is still a valid one.
No, there are really tangential analogies about how self-interested behavior can have negative consequences, but it is and has always been based around a bunch of numerous myths. Externalities is a better description of this.
Elinor Ostrom investigated management of the commons and the original description of tragedy of the commons was a complete lie. The commons were enclosed so that in this transitional stage of feudal lords could become businessmen that could profit off of using the land rather than taxing a peasant community living off of it. The enclosed commons is an asset to generate profit, where if enough of an increase in profit could be achieved, that could be reinvested, meant that exhausting the land would be an economically rational strategy. Where, if a peasant community is using it to sustain themselves, they have to carefully manage and steward that land so it is still producing for themselves years later, their children, and their grandchildren. The complete opposite of what the "tragedy of the commons" describes.
The idea of a commons as a shared resource that must be maintained through collective action is still a useful metaphor for our global environment. Just because Hardin's scholarship about medieval commons was bad doesn't mean our global world is not in itself a commons as the metaphor described it, and a useful thought experiment based on all the scholarship and debate that followed. And everyday people in a comment section who aren't environmental professionals aren't going to know the word "externality". So not that useful outside of a limited audience
I love my 2017 Volt! I much prefer driving it to my in-law's enormous Dodge Ram and Audi Q7.
Long live the Volt!
Gen1 Honda insight here to corroborate. Trucks seem to intentionally pull in front of me, even when driving reasonably above the limit, just to prove a point. It's dumb.
Yes, and their headlights are at the perfect height for blinding me in the rear view
CAFE is killing the smaller vehicle. Vehicles are getting super round and boring for aerodynamics. Wheel base is getting longer. Track is getting wider. There's no such thing as a small truck. Everything is am SUV ("truck") or crossover (hatchback / station wagon). CAFE allows for less fuel efficiency for wider track and longer wheelbase and trucks over everything else.
Remember how VW got caught cheating on the mileage tests? Remember how every other major manufacturer was caught too?
The govt has set far too high of a standard for mileage, so car companies are making giant ass cars to meet (cheat) CAFE standards. The manufacturers have done everything they can but still can't meet the standards.
The problem with CAFE is that it does not apply to trucks and SUV's. So bear with me for a moment:
You are a car executive, choosing what car to make. On one hand, say there's a station wagon. On the other, say there's an SUV. The bean counters assure you they cost about as much to produce, but the station wagon has to comply to stricter regulations, and the engineers tell you they'll have to work harder to make the station wagon comply to the law.
Meanwhile, the SUV costs about as much to make, but has way fewer rules it has to comply with. The marketing team tells you they can sell both vehicles just as well, though you may be able to set a higher sticker price for the SUV.
Do you build the more heavily regulated station wagon, knowing your margins are thinner? Or do you take the easier option with bigger margins and build the SUV?
You'll even see the outcome IRL. In the US, Ford tries to convince you that the car you need for your family is a pick-up truck with a crew cab. Meanwhile, in the European market, where larger cars start costing much more much sooner, the same segment gets offered a seven seater minivan.
There was a time back when gas prices got kinda high when I thought Americans would finally shift down to slightly smaller cars, but now it's practically a cultural thing for half the country to burn as much fuel as possible, so I suspect even if gas prices here hit Europe levels it wouldn't cause them to budge much.
It does feel really odd, though, going somewhere like a school and just being absolutely surrounded by huge SUVs and pickup trucks that you know damn well like 90% of the drivers aren't actually utilizing.
Double-sucks because it's becoming more and more difficult to find a small car. Everything new, even most cars, are huge.
I thought after 2008 that we had finally gotten over our large car addiction.
They're so addicted to SUVs now that Ford doesn't even make a car other than the Mustang. Their entire lineup is SUVs.
Looks to me like vehicle sales have been taking dramatically, probably due to the increased cost due to "supply chain". Also, EV sales grew 42.7% last year.
Even in Europe, finding a decent used hatchback is way harder than it used to be.
In California, America's largest state by population, our #1 selling vehicle is the Honda Civic. And driving on our roads, Civics, Corollas, Accords etc... dominate the roads. And even the biggest selling SUV the CRV gets like 30+ to the gallon.
Small cars sell in places where small cars work.
You list few vehicles but don't appear to know they are in different segments. They're not classified the same so you can't lump them together.
Civic is small sedan or hatchback
Accord is mid size sedan
Corolla is small sedan or hatchback
CRV is a mid size crossover
Small cars, and mid size cars for that matter, don't sell well in general. They're ~9% of total sales each. Luxury and full size sedans are like ~3% each but they are targeting a very specific demographic that know they'll always have a buyer.
People often blanket both true SUVs and Crossovers into the SUV category for simplicity. But they are in fact different. Crossovers do breakdown into multiple segments itself, though it's typically the mid and full size that sell very well. Collectively crossovers are ~48% of the market. A good example of how to differentiate is Ford Explorer is full size, Ford Escape is mid size, Ford EcoSport is small.
Trucks are ~19%, and actual SUVs are ~8%. For example the Ford F-150 and Ford Expedition share the exact same ladder chassis. Different bodies are bolted on. By this definition, SUVs don't sell well either. Lol. The terms gets muddied up due to mass consumer confusion.
Vans fill the rest of the percentage here, but are typically commercial and fleet.
It's time for Americans to embrace bicycles and ebikes and, gasp, walking
We Americans can't stand walking through the grocery store.
That is barely even the start of what we need. It would do us better to embrace public transit and densification. If we all just switched to small cars instead it wouldn't solve the underlying issues with car dependent infrastructure. We'd still have wide swaths of useful land buried under miles of concrete and asphalt. We'd still have urban spaces that are hostile to anyone not in a automobile (admittedly somewhat less so). My commute time is nearly doubled simply because all of the parking lots I have to walk through. There's no need (outside of accommodating drivers) for everything to be separated by so much empty space.
Yeah, changing up cars seems like scratching at a symptom rather than the problem. If there are thousands of cars all headed in the same direction every day... It seems like offering a train would be pretty obvious win.
Cars would still be needed in some situations though, in which case it would be better if they were small
For sure, I'm not saying we have to entirely ban cars. And small cars are much better than large cars. But neither should be everyone's first thought for "how do I get around town?"
Trains are great for getting from one dense area to another. As soon as you need to go in any other direction though you are stuck. Plus the US is so spread out you still need a car to get to the station unless you live a mile or so near it and that is a pretty limited area.
Even in Europe we can't, since they replace them with fat Crossovers.
I've been casually looking for when my 80s hatchback dies and the choices are bleak. It seems like there are about 4 options for something of a similar size, half of those are just announced or coming out this year. And none of them start below ~$35k. Which would be fine, except there's been a few decades of everything getting bigger so it'll be another decade til these are in the used market, if they even take off.
the only problem i had when i was driving a small car (i drive a mid-size car now) was my sense of vulnerability when surrounded by stupid massive lifted trucks bearing down on me. it felt really unsafe. and i live in stupid-giant-truck land, they're not an anomaly here.
eta - plus giant truck owners seem to get off on being scary aggressive drivers.
One potential remedy could be a powerful enough engine. Small car with fast powertains are preppy and can zip out of a dangerous situation quickly, so that can help your mind.
The trend in truck size is, well, yeah.
I want a small truck. Not the new small ones that are the size of 20yr old full-size trucks.
I miss the old rangers, the new ones might as well be f150s.
Increase the gas tax. Set registration fees per pound of car.
We know how to do this. We also know how scared politicians are of angering anyone.
And make it so expensive to drive that you kill the ability to drive for every poor person.
I mean, yeah. Small electric cars, more trains, more public transport.
More and better public transport, cycling, and walkable cities would be great. But we can't have nice things because car and gas companies might make less profits.
We can't have nice things because the zoning code is wrong. The fundamental problem is that low-density zoning and minimum parking requirements physically force destinations further apart, resulting in fewer possible destinations within walking distance or biking distance and making transit uneconomical due to fewer riders per unit length of transit line. Simultaneously, it also makes walking and cycling deeply unpleasant because even if the sidewalk or bike path exists, you end up sandwiched in a no-man's land between a stroad and a succession of huge parking lots.
That's going to be a hard job. Cue the ones willing to die for their god given right to drive a car the size of a van to the shops they can see from their front door.
I drive a 2015 Chevy Spark, the gas version. The ev version was discontinued in 2016, the gas version was discontinued in 2022. The Chevy Sonic, a similar, but slightly larger model was discontinued in 2020. The Chevy Bolt, an ev and larger, but still compact model and a successor to the Spark and Sonic was discontinued this year. It's become apparent that most Americans do not like small cars.
I don't think much can be done to make small cars likable here, I'd love to be able to drive a car like the Honda E, but there's no market for it here.
GM has a long history of only half-heartedly offering small EVs.
Honda also pulled the fit. Such a fantastic car no other ones in the US segment came close.
I love my 2017 Spark. I didn't know they had an EV version.
I love my Chevy Sonic. I hate it when I get surrounded by lifted pickups especially in a parking lot.
Same in Europe, small cars either get discontinued or transformed into a SUV...
Small, pink cars?
I like it. Reminds me of a movie or something.
The author notes that he would like to see more people take public transportation, and I’m all for that. There’s one problem for me: In Michigan where I live there is no public transportation that really gets you around Detroit, or gets you from the suburbs to Detroit. There is the joke of a QLine that goes no where and the People Mover that also doesn’t do much, but other than that nothing. Convincing people that have private transportation (read: cars) that they should invest/have their taxes used for public transportation is a no-go. Convincing the rich that they should pay more than $0 a year in taxes is even harder. This is probably the case a in several states around the country, but definitely in Michigan (and believe me, we tried with a bus system). So while I get that smaller cars can be and maybe should be thing, I think public transportation, as the author points out, could also be a thing. However, trying to get anyone, especially millionaires and billionaires, to pay a cent more than they are forced to is like pulling teeth.
Fellow Michigander here. I’m located towards Flint in Mount Morris and I can agree that public transportation is a joke. Where I live it isn’t as feasible either, as there is more rural homes.
You kind of hit on the biggest problem with lack of public transit investments, and I don’t think you even realize it.
On I-66, they added an additional travel lane for 4 miles and it cost $85million. That’s more than $20million PER MILE. And it is only ONE travel lane, not an entire highway. And yet, we accept this as the norm, but god forbid we spend money on public transit. Everyone is up in arms on how our taxes are wasted only when it is public transit. I’m not saying that $1 million bus stop was money well spent, I honestly don’t know. But it still sounds like a better deal than $1 million for 264 feet of travel lane.
The US should really just directly employ regional workers to handle these projects. Corruption and nepotism are rampant in public construction projects, and the profit motive requires an inefficient use of tax dollars since we must pay a completely useless margin just so somebody can become richer for doing zero work.
We also need to stop expanding highways since additional lanes have been proven to not help congestion, and actually worsens it because it encourages more driving.
I drive a, for American standards, small Peugeot 308. It’s the 2018 model. Does about 45-50 MPG (the diesel does even better) and has all the luxuries I can imagine. I drive the station which means I have plenty of space for everything I could need.
I drive it for 2,5-3 hours a day. It drives like a dream. You don’t need a massive SUV for that.
That doesn't make any sense. What does duration of transit have to do woth how large your vehicle is? The article didn't say clown cars.
I'm 6'2" (188cm) and I drive a tiny little '05 Mazda 3s, for 1.5 hours each way to work/home. It's not an issue at all. If anything, I'm honestly LESS comfortable in larger vehicles.
Would I like to drive less? Definitely. Working from home during Corona was fantastic and I was so much more productive.
I commuted 2 1/2 hours a day, mostly highway driving. In a Yaris, with a passenger. For 8 years. I was driving, not stretching out to take a nap.
TBH, I would have preferred a car that was quieter and had a bit more comfortable ride. But a Corolla, Civic, Mazda 3 or Elantra would have been just fine.
Won't happen. That country is obsessed with being seen wearing its big boy pants, to the detriment of everything. Their entire culture is built around the myth of American exceptionalism and it inhibits any potential for learning or even just rational decision making. It is in their DNA to be offensively stupid and contrarian at every opportunity.
We had compact cars in the 70s and 80s then massive SUVs and now massive pickups became the norm. Pickups have not only become louder but they don't even fit in parking spaces completely anymore.
We also had compact cars in all the other years after that. I've been driving them the whole time
Just sold my Model 3 for a long time want, Fiat 500 Abarth. Couldn’t be happier.
I wonder how many people are doing something like this. My plan is to sell my model 3 as well and get a cheap 5speed hatchback, whatever seems most fun when the time comes.
If you don't mind me asking, what made you want to switch to gas and what do you like about the fiat 500? I've never been in one!
I went the opposite route and instead of selling my 3 I bought a Y as well. Despite elon and all the negative press, it's hard to beat an electric car.
The only trouble is that the super charger network pretty much makes the choice of EV for you if you don't want any gas cars in the garage.
Same with EV's, this stuff will save the car industry but not the planet.
We need to figure out how to rebuild our infrastructure and our ways of thinking such that we don't need individual hunks of carbon toting us around.
My husbands 2009 Corolla finally needed replacing (couldn't pass inspection due to rusted frame) and he had the WORST time finding a car anywhere at the nearby dealerships. Everything was trucks and SUVs, finally he found one that had 3 cars and 1 mostly fit the price/criteria he wanted.
We're in the rural north east and the number of big ass trucks is insane, it's getting harder and harder to park between them all and I hate trying to get out of parking spaces when I can't see for shit around them.
It's the 70s all over again.
Yep. All it will take is one oil shock and we'll have GM and Ford scrambling to build small cars, fail miserably, get bailed out, and then start building giant cars again.
I looked at the Ford Canada page - the smallest vehicle in the line up was the Mustang, most were trucks or should big SUVs.
Then I looked at the Ford Switzerland page - lots of reasonable cars of all sizes, basically zero trucks.
They make them, they just don't sell them here. It's bullshit.
It's annoying that the home country of Ford doesn't get a lot of their best vehicles. I want a new Focus ST estate, and an Australian ute.
Or just not buy so many ugly ass SUVs/crossovers/minivans/god the list goes on.
so, small cars...
Just regular hatchbacks. I wouldn't consider a Golf a small car
Unfortunately, in North America, a Golf is a small car. There are not many compact cars, and supposedly only 3 subcompacts on the market in Canada. I've had so many people comment on my "cute" and "tiny" 2020 Golf, yet it's barely any smaller than my old 2005 Civic Sedan (and has a lot more usable space). It shouldn't be a small car, but it is relative to the rest of the market in North America where there's less than a dozen cars smaller than it.
PS: Great username! Grim Fandango is my all-time favourite game.
from the thumbnail, thought it was the Simpsons car haha
My 2005 Scion xB is still going strong. Love that car. It’s not just short but also narrow so I can easily fit in compact parking spaces that many others can’t. Yet it feels huge on the inside. Great car.
I think this is the first positive comment about a Scion ever. I'm glad I was here for this momentous event.
I can’t fit 3 kids with car seats in a small car. I drive anything that is affordable
I have 4 kids, vans or suvs are my only option. I got my explorer new for 24k. It was the cheapest vehicle with 3 rows and room for luggage in the back. I miss driving a car, but for the next decade I need a kid hauler.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Heavier vehicles also wear out roads faster, though the difference between a small sedan and a large electric SUV amounts to very little when compared to the effect of a garbage truck rolling by each morning.
Just this week, Automotive News reported that the Mitsubishi Mirage is on the way out, joining the choir invisible alongside cars like the Chevrolet Sonic, Honda Fit, and Toyota Yaris, all of which were once sold in the US.
The Bolt's biggest problem, from a bean counter's point of view at least, was a battery that cost a lot more per kWh than one made with General Motors' new Ultium cells.
News of the Bolt's cancellation was met with much dismay, and GM recently decided to bring the nameplate back at some unspecified time on a new Ultium-based platform.
But GM CEO Mary Barra has also warned that even with the lower cost of Ultium cells, the company won't make any profit on sub-$40,000 EVs until late in the decade.
In addition to the ever-escalating safety arms race that entices American car buyers, a misplaced obsession with having as much range as possible also factors in here.
The original article contains 493 words, the summary contains 193 words. Saved 61%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
The main reason is manufacturers make more money off of larger cars. The cost of making cars doesn't vary that much, but larger cars can be sold for much more, so the profit margin is greater. That, and costs for parts tend to be greater, also.
I'm all for smaller more efficient cars, easier to drive too
Ford F150/Chevy 1500 and bigger just keep getting bigger every style change. I call them pavement tanks.
A Toyota Pixis Mega/Honda N Van as a daily and a toy on the side, that's ideal for me and maybe it should be for Americans too. But I'm biased because I love driving
I'd be happy enough with a Smart Fortwo style vehicle. I'd be more than happy with good public transportation and non-car dominated urban planning. I'd be over the moon for high speed rail lines covering the country.
Miata is always the answer!
or idk.... make real city?
I like my Smart EV. From the outside, it is as long as most cars are wide, can U-turn as right as a Tesla Cyber truck, if not tighter, and can get me from A-B daily, charging overnight off a regular household outlet.
I would love to have smaller cars, but my average size Civic can’t see around the driving billboards that all the people are driving these days, increasing the danger and risk to myself and passenger(s).
As someone that just traded in my Sierra 1500 for a Sienna Minivan, I don't understand why minivans get so much hate. My van is an excellent people mover, can carry a lot of shit, and gets 36MPG. The Tahoe I was looking at doesn't hold a candle to my van, and uses a lot of expensive gas to boot.
Towing. The tahoe could tow way more than the van. They have different purposes.
Vans are awesome!! So are trucks, de0ends on your needs
Great, but they don't sell them here.
And no ones gonna go get a fiat or smart
There still exist cars in 2023. It's not just SUV's available on the lot.
People just want them, because of grocery trips or a kid in school sports or whatever.
Whether most of them actually need that SUV space is something up for debate, but it's gonna be hard to convince the average American (already in love with full SUV's) to just switch away.
Bring back the hatchbacks. People want the utility of a CUV/SUV. Not the mileage or sheer size. It's purely the screwed up CAFE standards pushing everything to get bigger. If we actually just taxed by the pound then vehicles would suddenly go back to normal size with normal approaches to cargo storage.
I've driven smaller hatchbacks pretty much my.entire life, and agree completely. I have no issue hauling 4-5 adults + whatever stuff they happen to have in the trunk. Fully agree, hatchbacks are the way to go.
I don’t need the space but I’m beginning to think I need an suv due to the ridiculous visibility problems they cause and constantly being blinded at night.
There still exist cars in 2023. It’s not just SUV’s available on the lot.
You haven't looked at a Ford dealer lately, have you? They literally don't make cars anymore, except for the Mustang (and even then they'd probably rather sell you a "Mustang Mach-E," which is an SUV).
Industry analysts are praising Ford's decision and other automakers are following in its footsteps.
I usually ride my bike, but my daily driver was a Honda Fit before I started getting back into cycling and ebikes. Good little car, I kinda miss it.
That's me right now. I walk/bike when I have to go in to work, and have a Fit for when I need a vehicle otherwise. I wish I could go smaller, but I don't want to buy a new car until I need to.
My previous car is a Yaris.
When I got the Yaris I heard people make snide comments like "Anyone see that big guy get out of that tiny car?" then gas prices went up and they became "Hey, what kind of MPG does that thing get?"
I like hatchbacks. Bigger is fine but nothing huge.
My current car is an '07 Yaris. It's totally bare bones, but everyone who has been in it comments on how spacious the interior is.
I've always driven small cars, because they're economical and I've never needed anything larger. I hate that small hatchbacks are so scarce in the US and that our roads are overrun with ludicrously huge pickups and SUVs. We transitioned from land yachts to small cars in the late 1970's and 1980's, we could do it again with the right incentives.
I drive an Auris station wagon Hybrid (aka, the US Corolla iM with bigger boot). I had a chance to drive multiple Yaris generations and honestly I am always surprised by how roomy it is inside. They made a perfect use of space - way better than VW did with Polo (smaller Golf), that’s for sure…
I can't even remember what year mine was. It was the first year it was in the US. Was a decent car. Good milage. But it chewed through water pumps so bad. It was either loud squealing belt or too tight causing it to killed the pump. Never could get it "just right"
That's too bad. I have 189,000 miles on mine (304,000 km) and it's never let me down. I haven't had to do anything but regular maintenance on it. I wanted to replace it with something a bit newer and nicer, but had to replace the car my wife and daughter share, instead. Fortuately, I don't drive very much so it will probably hold out for a few more years.
I have a Yaris and think it's too big. It's 20cm longer than my previous car (2005 Clio) but somehow has less interior space, it feels cramped.
I have a 2017 Hybrid Yaris in blue like this one:
That I affectionately call “Blue thunder” 🤣
Got the same model in red but with the 1.5L engine from 2019. Love it. Already got 75k km and it’s still running like a charm.
Yaris gang rise up!
Want to trade my 09 in for a more recent model, hatchback would be ideal
The actual model is beautiful, and it has Apple Car/Android auto and also a HUD.
I love that this has become the hatchback and Yaris love thread. As a GTI owner it makes me happy. I do not want nor need to go any bigger. It's almost the perfect car.
My Yaris is actually older than me. so old in fact, that it was called "vitz" and/or "echo" in some countries. i am the 4th owner. had to replace the starter, all the fluids and the clutch (cuz old people). best car ever. it has around 100.000 km on it and runs like it rolled out of the factory just yesterday. considering we euros pay up to 7€ per gallon it's good i still get around 40mpg out of it. love that thing.
Americans need to embrace public transit. We need trains that don't completely suck in both speed and schedule reliability.
We're never going to convince a lot of folks to leave their lifted F-150 or massive Suburban behind for a small car. But quality, affordable public transit that is not only efficient but saves money over owning a car would actually make a difference. We're more likely to be able to get people to just leave the F-150 in the driveway and eventually move away from it.
Much better for the environment, too, and reduces traffic / congestion, etc. I agree smaller cars would be good, but the goalpost should be getting away from the automobile.
Americans have absolutely embraced public transit. It’s just that not a lot of cities have robust systems in place, but go somewhere like NYC or Chicago and you’ll see a transit system that millions rely on daily.
Public transit needs to do what it says on the tin. People won't choose public transit if it's the choice between an hour commute each way and a 3 hour each way bus ride.
americans will embrace small cars like they embrace gun control
We embraced the shit out of them during the oil crisis in the '70's. Then when gasoline got cheap again we snapped right back.
"But my SUV makes me feel so 'safe' and gives me a commanding view of the road!!!!!!"
I am of the opinion that everyone ought to just get a motorcycle.
Have you ever seen Americans drive? Or the ones that ride motorcycles?
Give everyone a motorcycle and half the country would be dead in a week
Well, that'll keep 'em off my damn roads, won't it?
Yeah that's a net win
I think there should be a separate license to drive SUVs and Trucks over a certain size. And that maintaining that license should be a bit of a hassle - like a required in-person written and practical test every 2 years. If people want that commanding view of the road and "safe" feeling that comes from endangering everyone else on the road, then they should have to put in some extra effort - not enough extra effort that it's unattainable for those who actually have a need for a vehicle of that size, but enough effort that it would discourage the widespread use we have currently.
Also, during your SUV probationary period you have to drive a Suzuki Samurai for two years or so.
I'd love to have a motorcycle that would replace my current vehicle, but it would need to be capable of keeping me warm while handling well in heavy snow. Afaik, there aren't any enclosed bikes out there
The US EPA currently penalizes smaller cars thanks to a poorly thought out rule for fuel economy that scales by wheelbase size, making larger cars easier to meet requirements for. The EPA has made many embarrassingly backwards decisions, but this might be the worst.
I was taxed an extra $150 to register a 2002 Honda Insight last year. It was for a "Hybrid Tax" because hybrid owners buy less gas and therefore are paying less tax on gasoline. Like, that's the whole point of driving a small car!
Normal sized cars* you mean.
Normal cars aren't small. They're just small if you compare them to the giant ridiculous trucks they have over that.
Bold idea here, but maybe if we stopped fucking subsidizing SUV's, people wouldn't buy so goddamn many of them. Just a thought.
some reasons for the raise of vehicle size on the last decades are personal taste, but others are policy driven, we could look into that, as utility vehicles are treated differently in terms of emission requirements
Yup - in the US, pick-ups and SUVs are categorized as "light trucks," which have different fuel efficiency and emission standards and are therefore more profitable to produce.
Add to that some clever marketing to the effect of "big car = more manly/safe" and boom, now you see these big, stupid, fuel-ineffecient, dangerous vehicles everywhere.
Good job 👍
Not just that but the standards are also more lenient if the car is larger for its class which is part of why even small cars are bigger now.
I have heard also that a big car is better because a big car crashing with other bigger cars will increase the probability of surviving, but then it's a war of having the biggest car. It's basically the same as weapons.
Whenever I'm in the States I hate the fact that everything is a 20 minute car ride away. I understand why road rage can be a thing if you spend so much time in the car.
Or an adequate mass transportation system.
Or walkable zoning, lack of which is the fundamental cause of the car dependency.
The lack of continuous sidewalks drives me nuts. A developer might put in a sidewalk but the one next to them doesn't. Sometimes you are walking alongside a ditch or have to cross a busy road to continue on.
As much as I'm inclined to agree with @MaggiWuerze@feddit.de, the real reason is typically that all new developments are required to include sidewalks, but existing ones aren't required to retrofit. So you get a patchwork of sidewalks installed over time as things get torn down and rebuilt.
The "annoying and pedestrian hostile" part is municipalities' unwillingness to infill sidewalks in front of old developments at taxpayer expense.
Almost like it's designed to be annoying and pedestrian hostile
My dream car is a Nash Metropolitan converted to an EV.
That would be fucking dope. I'd love for retrofuturist cars like this to appear
That's a pretty sweet ride.
I wish we got the Honda E. Would buy that up in a heartbeat.
Definitely would love a Honda E, got a Chevy Bolt EV as it seemed like the next best option here.
I'm usually not a hatch fan but that little car looked awesome. I got my last new gas powered manual transmission car before EVs are the main thing. Since I work from home and don't drive a bunch my plan is to keep it as long as I can and get an EV in 4-5 years when hopefully infrastructure catches up a bit and more manufacturers have an option and work out small kinks.
Bro if you could get a used leaf gen one (they run around 4k), you could take that thing to a drag strip and absolutely turn some heads.
I have a friend who wants to take my gen one leaf and do a conversion. He just went to an EV mechanics course on it.
Same with a 1959 Panhard PL 17. Some of those little old cars are just beautiful.
Give me a new El Camino EV with a 400 mile range and I'm in.
All my road trips are around 150 miles and there may or may not be a charger at the destination.
The article says range isn't important...if you've ever looked at a map of the US, you'll see why that's a misguided statement.
To be fair, most people aren't driving across the US on an even yearly basis, if ever in their lives.
400 miles doesn't get you halfway across a single state in the western US.
But it definitely gets you to the next fast charger to get an 80 percent charge in 10 minutes.
That's only relevant if you have a mythical car that can charge to 80 in 10 minutes. My car does it in about 90, the Solterra I almost bought has something like a 60 minute 10-80% charge time, and the fastest charging car on the market right now is the EV6 which is (IIRC) still 18 minutes to 80%.
Nevermind that the estimated 350 mile range in an ICE car is pretty spot on, where as a 250 mile range in an EV is best case scenario.
I own an EV, I think EVs are the future, but they're not there quite yet. Not completely, and not in a way that can compete with a RAV-4, CR-V, or Forester in terms of miles traveled and minutes spent filling up. And often, locations where you want to stop, aren't the same locations that have a fast charger.
I think you underestimate how many people never leave their home city
Yup, I'm OK with a Ranchero EV with a 150 mile range.
Just city to city is typically at least 150mi one way. Maybe on the southern coasts, if I was really a homebody, could I get away with something under 150mi range.
There's no way anyone in Texas is going anywhere in a standard range EV for example.
I drove from Minnesota to Kansas in an EV. Wasn't too bad, just a few stops to charge. I needed to eat and go for a walk, anyways
95% of trips are 30 miles or less. Of course everyone is the exception, we’re all above average drivers here.
A car is too big of an investment to fail to take you from point A to B 1 in every 20 trips.
I guess I'm in the 5 percent? But still small cars can take long trips. That's a frustrating thing, people assuming you need a modern day Conestoga wagon to do a road trip.
Something like the Maverick hybrid might be best for you.
But then you have to deal with driving a ford.
So I live in the cousin-fuckingly-deep south where 90% of what's on the road is trying its best to be a monster truck... I drive what looks like a pregnant rollerskate by comparison cuz I don't want to send half my paycheck into the gas tank.
It's funny-sad how the folks in the giant trucks get offended just by seeing my tiny car. Every day there's always at least one asshole in an F-350 or some shit that likes to ride up on my ass cuz I guess it makes them feel powerful? I just drop a mph every couple seconds until either they fuck off or get annoyed enough to pass.
Anyway, moral of the story is that stupid-big vehicles are here to stay in the US, at least in the regions occupied by Y'all Quaeda. Their trucks are one of their few sources of self esteem.
...I'm really tempted to find one of those rubber testicle things that the cowboys like to put between the rear wheels of their trucks, but like a comically tiny one, color it like the trans flag, and hang it on the back of my tiny car just to annoy the rednecks on the road. ...although here, that'd probably get my car or myself shot.
I got the chevy spark right before it got discontinued and the amount of people who comment on my small car in the south is obsurd. It's great being able to fit into a parking spot between 2 monster trucks and it only costs like 25 dollars for a tank of gas. People who see vehicles as more than just a means of transportation baffles me. I like the tiny truck nuts idea I might have to steal that.
Forget small cars, we should be embracing non-motorized ways of transit. Make things human-sized again and allow us to walk and/or bike to destinations rather than having to have a motorized vehicle to get around.
Public transit is obviously a good thing to have, but I think it’s also important to have alternate forms of transit as well.
I was just on Block Island, RI the other day. It’s a 10mi^2 island with ferry service and an airport square in the middle of it. Very seasonal economy and the residents are wealthy NIMBY-types.
No trams or trolleys or any mass transit on the island itself. Lots of mopeds and bikes and a surprising amount of cars. We were on foot to a restaurant and approached a 4-way stop and both myself (pedestrian) and the bicyclist next to me were amazed at how hard it was to cross the street with all the taxis and rental cars around.
What a shame. The island should be a model of an ideal “minimal car” community, and could easily become it.
So much this. It's infuriating to have to get in a car every time you want to go outside your neighborhood.
I recommend moving to a city
In the US, it's really only NYC and Chicago that have functioning public transit. If you can't go to one of those, you're pretty much out of luck. It's not like in Europe where every little small to mid-size town has light rail and train connections all over.
That's all fun and games until weather happens...and weather is going to happen a lot going forward.
I moved to Europe, grew up in New York near the City and decided to get a moped here to commute. It's roughly equivalent to an Ebike but was actually cheaper than one and has a 100km range. It's not highway legal as it has a top speed of 45km/h but can go on bike paths as long as I watch the speed.
After 3 months since I got the moped I am going to get a car because FUCK going to the office in the rain with that thing. The trains and/or busses go on strike about once a month, maybe a little less, and between delays and cancelations I can't rely on them for my commute. I've literally been waiting for the bus and the driver just decides not to stop to pick me up too. Also packages don't get reliably dropped off at my front door so I need to go into town or to the supermarket next to the highway to pick up my things which becomes untenable when they are bulky. Instead I'm taking taxis at a cost of €30 each way just to pick up shit that should be left at my door.
The dissonance is strong, I still need a car, and I still need one big enough to move bulky crap at least once a month if not more.
And before someone says rent a car, it's €70+ a day to do so here and I have a preferred account through my employer. I need to book it in advance so it's not a "same day" thing. Oh and the places they drop the packages off have weird fucking opening times and are often closed when they should be open so I've literally spent €60 on taxis to come home with nothing. That time the seller did me a solid and refunded me the €60 as an apology (it was a €350 item).
Cars have gotten bigger externally, but internally it seems storage space is actually going down. My 2014 Nissan Note has a 10% larger storage capacity than a 2023 Renault Espace, even tho the latter is 50cm larger in all three dimensions and is literally called 'spatious'.
I drive a fucking roadster from 2001 and somehow it has more internal space than a 2021 sedan.
And the crumple zone is your legs, twice the use for the same space!
Jokes aside this whole thread could be summarised as 'safety' for the most part.
You're partly right, but manufacturers aren't just adding more crumple space, they are mainly building bigger and heavier vehicles. And that does not equal safety. Sure the crumple zone might be bigger, but the force of a crash is multitudes higher which results in a net negative, especially for pedestrians and cyclists
They also cover more and more with plastic panels. They are putting a lot into making something look sleek and that's at the cost of usable space.
It's 2001 not 1978, how bad do you think cars were 20 years ago?
It's time for Americans to stop spending so much time in their cars. Emissions from burning hydrocarbons are destroying the planet.
Problem is that American cities were designed around cars. Getting anywhere on foot, especially for those who live in suburban areas, is basically impossible.
It's not just the cities. Try living anywhere in the US that's not a city.
I'm not saying you are wrong, because you are definitely right, but I just want to put some context/scale along side this.
28% of greenhouse gas emission comes from transportation. of that 28%, 58% of that is classified as light-medium duty vehicles (consumer vehicles). So ~16% (58% of 28%) of greenhouse emissions are from consumer daily life.
16% is pretty big. Id love to see a dent in that. However, another 48% of the overall greenhouse emissions is energy production (25%) and industry (23%), and I think that's another area we can probably hammer on hard, and should probably start there since its a considerably larger percentage, and the targeted base actually has funds to make changes.
source
Hard to avoid spending so much time in our cars when rent and housing prices force us to live in them.
Here we have higher taxes for cars more than 4m long, so there are lots of small cars. Also, a lot of 3.99m cars.
Japan bases their taxes on engine size and gives significant tax brakes to cars 660cc and under. 3.0L and up are basically luxury vehicles there.
I have a Volt, and I resent how few compact hybrid options there will be when I get a replacement. When I drive around, I literally struggle to see around the giant land boats cruising around. They hold up parking lots trying to stuff themselves into spaces, and if I get hit by one I'm much more likely to be injured. Average car size is kind of a tragedy of the commons. Everyone suffers when the cars get bigger, but the individuals with the dumb land boats suffer little of the cost.
TILAW (today I learned a word):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
Yes, the metaphor has fallen out of fashion for a lot of reasons, including that the guy who coined the expression turned out to be a real piece of shit, but the core concept is still a valid one.
No, there are really tangential analogies about how self-interested behavior can have negative consequences, but it is and has always been based around a bunch of numerous myths. Externalities is a better description of this.
Elinor Ostrom investigated management of the commons and the original description of tragedy of the commons was a complete lie. The commons were enclosed so that in this transitional stage of feudal lords could become businessmen that could profit off of using the land rather than taxing a peasant community living off of it. The enclosed commons is an asset to generate profit, where if enough of an increase in profit could be achieved, that could be reinvested, meant that exhausting the land would be an economically rational strategy. Where, if a peasant community is using it to sustain themselves, they have to carefully manage and steward that land so it is still producing for themselves years later, their children, and their grandchildren. The complete opposite of what the "tragedy of the commons" describes.
The idea of a commons as a shared resource that must be maintained through collective action is still a useful metaphor for our global environment. Just because Hardin's scholarship about medieval commons was bad doesn't mean our global world is not in itself a commons as the metaphor described it, and a useful thought experiment based on all the scholarship and debate that followed. And everyday people in a comment section who aren't environmental professionals aren't going to know the word "externality". So not that useful outside of a limited audience
I love my 2017 Volt! I much prefer driving it to my in-law's enormous Dodge Ram and Audi Q7.
Long live the Volt!
Gen1 Honda insight here to corroborate. Trucks seem to intentionally pull in front of me, even when driving reasonably above the limit, just to prove a point. It's dumb.
Yes, and their headlights are at the perfect height for blinding me in the rear view
CAFE is killing the smaller vehicle. Vehicles are getting super round and boring for aerodynamics. Wheel base is getting longer. Track is getting wider. There's no such thing as a small truck. Everything is am SUV ("truck") or crossover (hatchback / station wagon). CAFE allows for less fuel efficiency for wider track and longer wheelbase and trucks over everything else.
Remember how VW got caught cheating on the mileage tests? Remember how every other major manufacturer was caught too?
The govt has set far too high of a standard for mileage, so car companies are making giant ass cars to meet (cheat) CAFE standards. The manufacturers have done everything they can but still can't meet the standards.
The problem with CAFE is that it does not apply to trucks and SUV's. So bear with me for a moment:
You are a car executive, choosing what car to make. On one hand, say there's a station wagon. On the other, say there's an SUV. The bean counters assure you they cost about as much to produce, but the station wagon has to comply to stricter regulations, and the engineers tell you they'll have to work harder to make the station wagon comply to the law.
Meanwhile, the SUV costs about as much to make, but has way fewer rules it has to comply with. The marketing team tells you they can sell both vehicles just as well, though you may be able to set a higher sticker price for the SUV.
Do you build the more heavily regulated station wagon, knowing your margins are thinner? Or do you take the easier option with bigger margins and build the SUV?
You'll even see the outcome IRL. In the US, Ford tries to convince you that the car you need for your family is a pick-up truck with a crew cab. Meanwhile, in the European market, where larger cars start costing much more much sooner, the same segment gets offered a seven seater minivan.
There was a time back when gas prices got kinda high when I thought Americans would finally shift down to slightly smaller cars, but now it's practically a cultural thing for half the country to burn as much fuel as possible, so I suspect even if gas prices here hit Europe levels it wouldn't cause them to budge much.
It does feel really odd, though, going somewhere like a school and just being absolutely surrounded by huge SUVs and pickup trucks that you know damn well like 90% of the drivers aren't actually utilizing.
Double-sucks because it's becoming more and more difficult to find a small car. Everything new, even most cars, are huge.
I thought after 2008 that we had finally gotten over our large car addiction.
They're so addicted to SUVs now that Ford doesn't even make a car other than the Mustang. Their entire lineup is SUVs.
Looks to me like vehicle sales have been taking dramatically, probably due to the increased cost due to "supply chain". Also, EV sales grew 42.7% last year.
Even in Europe, finding a decent used hatchback is way harder than it used to be.
In California, America's largest state by population, our #1 selling vehicle is the Honda Civic. And driving on our roads, Civics, Corollas, Accords etc... dominate the roads. And even the biggest selling SUV the CRV gets like 30+ to the gallon.
Small cars sell in places where small cars work.
You list few vehicles but don't appear to know they are in different segments. They're not classified the same so you can't lump them together.
Small cars, and mid size cars for that matter, don't sell well in general. They're ~9% of total sales each. Luxury and full size sedans are like ~3% each but they are targeting a very specific demographic that know they'll always have a buyer.
People often blanket both true SUVs and Crossovers into the SUV category for simplicity. But they are in fact different. Crossovers do breakdown into multiple segments itself, though it's typically the mid and full size that sell very well. Collectively crossovers are ~48% of the market. A good example of how to differentiate is Ford Explorer is full size, Ford Escape is mid size, Ford EcoSport is small.
Trucks are ~19%, and actual SUVs are ~8%. For example the Ford F-150 and Ford Expedition share the exact same ladder chassis. Different bodies are bolted on. By this definition, SUVs don't sell well either. Lol. The terms gets muddied up due to mass consumer confusion.
Vans fill the rest of the percentage here, but are typically commercial and fleet.
It's time for Americans to embrace bicycles and ebikes and, gasp, walking
We Americans can't stand walking through the grocery store.
That is barely even the start of what we need. It would do us better to embrace public transit and densification. If we all just switched to small cars instead it wouldn't solve the underlying issues with car dependent infrastructure. We'd still have wide swaths of useful land buried under miles of concrete and asphalt. We'd still have urban spaces that are hostile to anyone not in a automobile (admittedly somewhat less so). My commute time is nearly doubled simply because all of the parking lots I have to walk through. There's no need (outside of accommodating drivers) for everything to be separated by so much empty space.
Yeah, changing up cars seems like scratching at a symptom rather than the problem. If there are thousands of cars all headed in the same direction every day... It seems like offering a train would be pretty obvious win.
Cars would still be needed in some situations though, in which case it would be better if they were small
For sure, I'm not saying we have to entirely ban cars. And small cars are much better than large cars. But neither should be everyone's first thought for "how do I get around town?"
Trains are great for getting from one dense area to another. As soon as you need to go in any other direction though you are stuck. Plus the US is so spread out you still need a car to get to the station unless you live a mile or so near it and that is a pretty limited area.
Even in Europe we can't, since they replace them with fat Crossovers.
I've been casually looking for when my 80s hatchback dies and the choices are bleak. It seems like there are about 4 options for something of a similar size, half of those are just announced or coming out this year. And none of them start below ~$35k. Which would be fine, except there's been a few decades of everything getting bigger so it'll be another decade til these are in the used market, if they even take off.
The 2+2 is dead and the Crossover killed it.
I was on Greece a few weeks ago and the huge amount of cars were am all ones, like hyundai i2. It was real nice to see haha
the only problem i had when i was driving a small car (i drive a mid-size car now) was my sense of vulnerability when surrounded by stupid massive lifted trucks bearing down on me. it felt really unsafe. and i live in stupid-giant-truck land, they're not an anomaly here.
eta - plus giant truck owners seem to get off on being scary aggressive drivers.
One potential remedy could be a powerful enough engine. Small car with fast powertains are preppy and can zip out of a dangerous situation quickly, so that can help your mind.
The trend in truck size is, well, yeah.
I want a small truck. Not the new small ones that are the size of 20yr old full-size trucks.
I miss the old rangers, the new ones might as well be f150s.
I wish you could get newer kei trucks in the states.
Increase the gas tax. Set registration fees per pound of car.
We know how to do this. We also know how scared politicians are of angering anyone.
And make it so expensive to drive that you kill the ability to drive for every poor person.
I mean, yeah. Small electric cars, more trains, more public transport.
More and better public transport, cycling, and walkable cities would be great. But we can't have nice things because car and gas companies might make less profits.
We can't have nice things because the zoning code is wrong. The fundamental problem is that low-density zoning and minimum parking requirements physically force destinations further apart, resulting in fewer possible destinations within walking distance or biking distance and making transit uneconomical due to fewer riders per unit length of transit line. Simultaneously, it also makes walking and cycling deeply unpleasant because even if the sidewalk or bike path exists, you end up sandwiched in a no-man's land between a stroad and a succession of huge parking lots.
Or, please, trains.
That's going to be a hard job. Cue the ones willing to die for their god given right to drive a car the size of a van to the shops they can see from their front door.
I drive a 2015 Chevy Spark, the gas version. The ev version was discontinued in 2016, the gas version was discontinued in 2022. The Chevy Sonic, a similar, but slightly larger model was discontinued in 2020. The Chevy Bolt, an ev and larger, but still compact model and a successor to the Spark and Sonic was discontinued this year. It's become apparent that most Americans do not like small cars. I don't think much can be done to make small cars likable here, I'd love to be able to drive a car like the Honda E, but there's no market for it here.
GM has a long history of only half-heartedly offering small EVs.
Honda also pulled the fit. Such a fantastic car no other ones in the US segment came close.
I love my 2017 Spark. I didn't know they had an EV version.
I love my Chevy Sonic. I hate it when I get surrounded by lifted pickups especially in a parking lot.
Same in Europe, small cars either get discontinued or transformed into a SUV...
Small, pink cars?
I like it. Reminds me of a movie or something.
The author notes that he would like to see more people take public transportation, and I’m all for that. There’s one problem for me: In Michigan where I live there is no public transportation that really gets you around Detroit, or gets you from the suburbs to Detroit. There is the joke of a QLine that goes no where and the People Mover that also doesn’t do much, but other than that nothing. Convincing people that have private transportation (read: cars) that they should invest/have their taxes used for public transportation is a no-go. Convincing the rich that they should pay more than $0 a year in taxes is even harder. This is probably the case a in several states around the country, but definitely in Michigan (and believe me, we tried with a bus system). So while I get that smaller cars can be and maybe should be thing, I think public transportation, as the author points out, could also be a thing. However, trying to get anyone, especially millionaires and billionaires, to pay a cent more than they are forced to is like pulling teeth.
Fellow Michigander here. I’m located towards Flint in Mount Morris and I can agree that public transportation is a joke. Where I live it isn’t as feasible either, as there is more rural homes.
Americans will embrace small cars when we don't need to drive 1+hours every single day.
You dont need a large car for that...
You just need a comfortable car for that.
exactly. I would love to take public transport everywhere, but apparently investing in our public infrastructure is "too woke" now.
Well, when a County drops nearly a million dollars on a bus stop, it's not hard to understand why.
You kind of hit on the biggest problem with lack of public transit investments, and I don’t think you even realize it.
On I-66, they added an additional travel lane for 4 miles and it cost $85million. That’s more than $20million PER MILE. And it is only ONE travel lane, not an entire highway. And yet, we accept this as the norm, but god forbid we spend money on public transit. Everyone is up in arms on how our taxes are wasted only when it is public transit. I’m not saying that $1 million bus stop was money well spent, I honestly don’t know. But it still sounds like a better deal than $1 million for 264 feet of travel lane.
http://inside.transform66.org/about\_the\_project/i-66\_eastbound\_widening.asp
The US should really just directly employ regional workers to handle these projects. Corruption and nepotism are rampant in public construction projects, and the profit motive requires an inefficient use of tax dollars since we must pay a completely useless margin just so somebody can become richer for doing zero work.
We also need to stop expanding highways since additional lanes have been proven to not help congestion, and actually worsens it because it encourages more driving.
I drive a, for American standards, small Peugeot 308. It’s the 2018 model. Does about 45-50 MPG (the diesel does even better) and has all the luxuries I can imagine. I drive the station which means I have plenty of space for everything I could need. I drive it for 2,5-3 hours a day. It drives like a dream. You don’t need a massive SUV for that.
That doesn't make any sense. What does duration of transit have to do woth how large your vehicle is? The article didn't say clown cars.
I'm 6'2" (188cm) and I drive a tiny little '05 Mazda 3s, for 1.5 hours each way to work/home. It's not an issue at all. If anything, I'm honestly LESS comfortable in larger vehicles.
Would I like to drive less? Definitely. Working from home during Corona was fantastic and I was so much more productive.
I commuted 2 1/2 hours a day, mostly highway driving. In a Yaris, with a passenger. For 8 years. I was driving, not stretching out to take a nap.
TBH, I would have preferred a car that was quieter and had a bit more comfortable ride. But a Corolla, Civic, Mazda 3 or Elantra would have been just fine.
How about one of these bad boys?
https://www.motor1.com/news/680166/third-generation-honda-n-box-debut/
They're actually pretty roomy inside. Not aerodynamic, and I wouldn't want to be driving over 55 in one, but they're pretty neat.
They are also shit in safety.
Won't happen. That country is obsessed with being seen wearing its big boy pants, to the detriment of everything. Their entire culture is built around the myth of American exceptionalism and it inhibits any potential for learning or even just rational decision making. It is in their DNA to be offensively stupid and contrarian at every opportunity.
We had compact cars in the 70s and 80s then massive SUVs and now massive pickups became the norm. Pickups have not only become louder but they don't even fit in parking spaces completely anymore.
We also had compact cars in all the other years after that. I've been driving them the whole time
Just sold my Model 3 for a long time want, Fiat 500 Abarth. Couldn’t be happier.
I wonder how many people are doing something like this. My plan is to sell my model 3 as well and get a cheap 5speed hatchback, whatever seems most fun when the time comes.
If you don't mind me asking, what made you want to switch to gas and what do you like about the fiat 500? I've never been in one!
I went the opposite route and instead of selling my 3 I bought a Y as well. Despite elon and all the negative press, it's hard to beat an electric car.
The only trouble is that the super charger network pretty much makes the choice of EV for you if you don't want any gas cars in the garage.
Same with EV's, this stuff will save the car industry but not the planet.
We need to figure out how to rebuild our infrastructure and our ways of thinking such that we don't need individual hunks of carbon toting us around.
My husbands 2009 Corolla finally needed replacing (couldn't pass inspection due to rusted frame) and he had the WORST time finding a car anywhere at the nearby dealerships. Everything was trucks and SUVs, finally he found one that had 3 cars and 1 mostly fit the price/criteria he wanted.
We're in the rural north east and the number of big ass trucks is insane, it's getting harder and harder to park between them all and I hate trying to get out of parking spaces when I can't see for shit around them.
It's the 70s all over again.
Yep. All it will take is one oil shock and we'll have GM and Ford scrambling to build small cars, fail miserably, get bailed out, and then start building giant cars again.
I looked at the Ford Canada page - the smallest vehicle in the line up was the Mustang, most were trucks or should big SUVs. Then I looked at the Ford Switzerland page - lots of reasonable cars of all sizes, basically zero trucks.
They make them, they just don't sell them here. It's bullshit.
It's annoying that the home country of Ford doesn't get a lot of their best vehicles. I want a new Focus ST estate, and an Australian ute.
Or just not buy so many ugly ass SUVs/crossovers/minivans/god the list goes on.
so, small cars...
Just regular hatchbacks. I wouldn't consider a Golf a small car
Unfortunately, in North America, a Golf is a small car. There are not many compact cars, and supposedly only 3 subcompacts on the market in Canada. I've had so many people comment on my "cute" and "tiny" 2020 Golf, yet it's barely any smaller than my old 2005 Civic Sedan (and has a lot more usable space). It shouldn't be a small car, but it is relative to the rest of the market in North America where there's less than a dozen cars smaller than it.
PS: Great username! Grim Fandango is my all-time favourite game.
from the thumbnail, thought it was the Simpsons car haha
My 2005 Scion xB is still going strong. Love that car. It’s not just short but also narrow so I can easily fit in compact parking spaces that many others can’t. Yet it feels huge on the inside. Great car.
I think this is the first positive comment about a Scion ever. I'm glad I was here for this momentous event.
Hah, really? I thought people ate their cars up.
I love my lil 2002 subie hatchback.
Hatchbacks are the shiznat.
I can’t fit 3 kids with car seats in a small car. I drive anything that is affordable
I have 4 kids, vans or suvs are my only option. I got my explorer new for 24k. It was the cheapest vehicle with 3 rows and room for luggage in the back. I miss driving a car, but for the next decade I need a kid hauler.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Heavier vehicles also wear out roads faster, though the difference between a small sedan and a large electric SUV amounts to very little when compared to the effect of a garbage truck rolling by each morning.
Just this week, Automotive News reported that the Mitsubishi Mirage is on the way out, joining the choir invisible alongside cars like the Chevrolet Sonic, Honda Fit, and Toyota Yaris, all of which were once sold in the US.
The Bolt's biggest problem, from a bean counter's point of view at least, was a battery that cost a lot more per kWh than one made with General Motors' new Ultium cells.
News of the Bolt's cancellation was met with much dismay, and GM recently decided to bring the nameplate back at some unspecified time on a new Ultium-based platform.
But GM CEO Mary Barra has also warned that even with the lower cost of Ultium cells, the company won't make any profit on sub-$40,000 EVs until late in the decade.
In addition to the ever-escalating safety arms race that entices American car buyers, a misplaced obsession with having as much range as possible also factors in here.
The original article contains 493 words, the summary contains 193 words. Saved 61%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
The main reason is manufacturers make more money off of larger cars. The cost of making cars doesn't vary that much, but larger cars can be sold for much more, so the profit margin is greater. That, and costs for parts tend to be greater, also.
I'm all for smaller more efficient cars, easier to drive too
Ford F150/Chevy 1500 and bigger just keep getting bigger every style change. I call them pavement tanks.
A Toyota Pixis Mega/Honda N Van as a daily and a toy on the side, that's ideal for me and maybe it should be for Americans too. But I'm biased because I love driving
I'd be happy enough with a Smart Fortwo style vehicle. I'd be more than happy with good public transportation and non-car dominated urban planning. I'd be over the moon for high speed rail lines covering the country.
Miata is always the answer!
or idk.... make real city?
I like my Smart EV. From the outside, it is as long as most cars are wide, can U-turn as right as a Tesla Cyber truck, if not tighter, and can get me from A-B daily, charging overnight off a regular household outlet.
I would love to have smaller cars, but my average size Civic can’t see around the driving billboards that all the people are driving these days, increasing the danger and risk to myself and passenger(s).
As someone that just traded in my Sierra 1500 for a Sienna Minivan, I don't understand why minivans get so much hate. My van is an excellent people mover, can carry a lot of shit, and gets 36MPG. The Tahoe I was looking at doesn't hold a candle to my van, and uses a lot of expensive gas to boot.
Towing. The tahoe could tow way more than the van. They have different purposes.
Vans are awesome!! So are trucks, de0ends on your needs
Great, but they don't sell them here.
And no ones gonna go get a fiat or smart
There still exist cars in 2023. It's not just SUV's available on the lot.
People just want them, because of grocery trips or a kid in school sports or whatever.
Whether most of them actually need that SUV space is something up for debate, but it's gonna be hard to convince the average American (already in love with full SUV's) to just switch away.
Bring back the hatchbacks. People want the utility of a CUV/SUV. Not the mileage or sheer size. It's purely the screwed up CAFE standards pushing everything to get bigger. If we actually just taxed by the pound then vehicles would suddenly go back to normal size with normal approaches to cargo storage.
I've driven smaller hatchbacks pretty much my.entire life, and agree completely. I have no issue hauling 4-5 adults + whatever stuff they happen to have in the trunk. Fully agree, hatchbacks are the way to go.
I don’t need the space but I’m beginning to think I need an suv due to the ridiculous visibility problems they cause and constantly being blinded at night.
You haven't looked at a Ford dealer lately, have you? They literally don't make cars anymore, except for the Mustang (and even then they'd probably rather sell you a "Mustang Mach-E," which is an SUV).
Industry analysts are praising Ford's decision and other automakers are following in its footsteps.
I usually ride my bike, but my daily driver was a Honda Fit before I started getting back into cycling and ebikes. Good little car, I kinda miss it.
That's me right now. I walk/bike when I have to go in to work, and have a Fit for when I need a vehicle otherwise. I wish I could go smaller, but I don't want to buy a new car until I need to.