Ending support for Windows 10 could send 240 million computers to the landfill. Why not install Linux on them?
gadgettendency.com
With support ending for Windows 10, the most popular desktop operating system in the world currently, possibly 240 million pcs may be sent to the landfill. This is mostly due to Windows 11’s exorbitant requirements. This will most likely result in many pcs being immediately outdated, and prone to viruses. GNU/Linux may be these computers’ only secure hope, what do you think?
...What does the writer think support end means? Microsoft bricks the PC as soon as the support period ends?
They're going to just keep using Windows 10, security be damned. Probably a good number of users who weren't keeping their PC up to date even when Microsoft was forcing updates on them.
I still see XP pcs in the wild sometimes
Lots of hospitals seem to be running XP
I work in the behavioral health field as an IT security admin and network with hospitals/health clinics all all the time. The amount of them using XP and 7 in some capacity should scare everyone. The other security admins know it's an issue, but they just laugh it off.
I tell them if I were an immoral man, their company would be compromised just based off of that information.
Yeah I work for an emergency management SaaS company and we block outdated OSs and browsers and it’s wild how we will occasionally get pushback from potential new customers who are surprised we don’t support their outdated IT infrastructure due to the security risk
"what do you mean you don't service tin cans on a string?!"
Windows XP is basically firmware at this point, and has been for over a decade.
Lots of proprietary hardware that works perfectly, will not work on newer versions of Windows due to lack of drivers.
I see it constantly in factory situations with scales, scanners and robot controllers, it would only be worse for million dollar x-ray machines.
This. A lot of our lab's instruments are proprietary garbage. I wish the people buy these extremely expensive instruments would actually research if there's open source alternatives or help pressure the government's into forcing the code to be open. A lot of (public) spending for research is due to this sort of bs "instruments which only works with its own proprietary software" btw. The other good portion is eaten up by scumbags like Elsevier and other publishers.
As long as that machine is disconnected from the internet it's OK but as soon as you connect it you are cooked.
It’s been getting absolutely worse and worse with hardware as they shovel crap at you and then also expect you to buy subscriptions to make it usable. Keysight/agilent/ whoever they are had been really annoying about this.
Hell I've spotted some old systems still running a Telex exchange and Windows 3.1
Yep. Came across a computer recently still running Windows 2000 on it. Fan sounded like a truck with a bad lifter tick 😂
We have a piece of test equipment that runs windows 2000. It has to be quarantined on its own subnet isolated from the rest of the network.
Looking forward to more, bigger ddos attacks with so many unsecured computers sitting around... :(
A ton of people can barely open a PDF and this sub thinks those people can change to a completely different operating system.
My 80 year old dad has been using a XUbuntu for years and never even noticed. The only reason he knows he’s using Linux at all is because he saw a news story about Windows tracking and asked about it. He was quite happy not to be affected.
Honestly Linux mint can be more user friendly. The problem is that no one else knows how to help people using it
Theoretically, when it's up and running. How do you intend to get to that state, though? One has to install it first. And I think that alone is a massive filter.
inb4 someone says:
I'm sure you did, Mr. "I hate how much Reddit is pandering to the braindead to the point that I joined an experimental social media platform", I'm sure you did. Clearly, you are a qualitative sample of people who use Windows computers.
Sarcasm aside, look at how railroaded and coddling the Windows 10 installer is. I am certain a large plurality of Windows users' initiative would completely evaporate having to navigate that. And now we want to throw a Linux installation at them?
Factor on top how the vast majority of computer users in all forms that computers take simply take for granted that the OS the computer comes with is a part of the computer. Normal people don't upgrade OSes unless the OS itself railroads them into it (which Win10 already does aggressively whenable), or they buy a new PC that happens to come with it pre-installed. The knowledge required to negotiate an OS wipe and reinstall is not something most people possess, and I expect presenting that knowledge to them on a silver platter is something they'd hastily recoil from.
We're in a catch-22 here. Even if all the pieces for the fabled Linux Desktop are arguably here, actually getting it into the hands of those who would benefit from it most remains prohibitive.
This is also ignoring the elephant in the room: A massive swath of these Windows PCs (Maybe even most of them? I have no backing figures, just a hunch.) are not personal computers, but office PCs that belong to a company fleet. There's a reason Windows utterly dominates the office--Windows rules the IT sphere, at least where personal devices given to employees are concerned. Active Directory? Group Policy? Come on, guys. None of the companies who depend on these management tools are pivoting to Linux anytime soon, and you know it. And if their cheap, bulk order desk PCs don't support Windows 11, they are absolutely getting landfilled.
The only effective mitigation I could think of would be to start a charity that takes obselesced office PCs, refurbishes them to Linux, and provides them at low or no cost to those who need a low cost or free PC. It would get Linux into more hands, but it would also strengthen a stigma that Linux is nothing more than the poor man's OS. The Dr Thunder to Window's Mountain Dew.
Edit: My bad. I did the thing where I read like the first two sentences and didn’t read the rest. Reading the rest of the reply basically acknowledged my refute.
The majority of this waste is coming from businesses that now need to upgrade. That’s why there are IT departments to figure it out for the tech illiterate. As long as they can open their email client, a text editor and excel, you’ve overcome 90% of what a business needs for their computers.
You are right, Grandma Jones with her 800x600 resolution screen, 10 downloaded tool bars and Microsoft Edge ain’t going to get it, but Grandma Jones is still using XP, a CRT and a Gateway Computer she bought back in 2006
Nah, 'twas a good rant nonetheless ;)
Honestly people who can't open a PDF and refuse to learn shouldn't use a computer in the first place.
But, assuming most people aren't complete morons and can actually do stuff if they decide to sit down, Google how to do it and actually do it instead of declaring "I am stupid" and not even try, then even just telling or better yet showing people there's an alternative to throwing your perfectly functioning laptop and buying an expensive new one will go a long way to get new users and save some e-waste.
Of course, installing an OS isn't easy, for linux specifically the hard part is entering the BIOS to disable secure boot and then go into the boot menu to select the USB. After that it's a lot easier. Of course they can also be directed towards Linux computers, like system76's, or Tuxedo's or Laptops with Linux's if necessary.
Naturally to get Linux to dominate the desktop we need the EU to say "know what fuck you, your PC can't come with a preinstalled paid OS" paired with people learning Linux is an option when buying the PC and seeing that it is free vs what like 135€?
Extremely charitable assumption, I'd say.
I do think most people do in fact possess the ability to follow instructions and succeed at installing Linux from USB. But it all falls apart at the key word "decide". Very few people choose to devote the low, but nonzero, effort required to pull it off.
I would say, for the demographic I'm thinking of, the hardest part is actually getting the installation media in the first place. Not because it's challenging to do, but just getting over the mental barrier of this (to them) extremely unorthodox method of installing software.
Like, first you have to find the thing and download it. Which, fine, that's typical so far But the thing you download isn't some .exe you run. No, you need to put it on a flash drive. So you need one of those lying around, either empty or with nothing important on it. But you don't just copy the installl file onto it the ""normal"" way, nooo... you also have to separately download some strange utility that burns it onto the flash drive in some special way or else it won't work. Only then do you have to tickle the BIOS.
I understand if you or anyone else reading rolls their eyes at that description because these steps are so boneheadedly simple. And I agree, they are. But it's not so much a question of whether it's hard to do, it's a question of whether it feels safe and natural to do. Which, to you and me, it is. But to the kind of person who, as you say, shouldn't even be using a computer in the first place (but they must anyhow, because trying to live in our modern information age society without one closes too many doors), it's an uncomfortable, dark ritual.
Get them to flash it with Ventoy, then they can copy and paste the ISO. Bit easier for dummies and let's them put more .iso files in it without the "but why can't I do more than one".
The BIOS is a lot scarier to noobs. You have to press a button very fast, go into a scary menu that looks different than anything else and full of weird options, to disable something that has secure in its name, and then something about boots to turn on the PC from the USB? But my computer has no boots!
Now this was made easier by windows which can be told to reboot directly on the BIOS or media drive, but it is still more daunting to newbies than to use a program to flash a USB in my experience.
Of course, that's why we need to be there for tech illiterate people to teach them how to read, without assuming they're mentally challenged because they're not stupid they just lack the willingness to try something that looks scary the first time you do it (like most things in life). If I got my mother, who can barely figure out how to open the file manager on windows, to install Linux Mint and some software in it over a phone call, it's possible with anyone.
I didn't disable secure boot when I installed linux, oh no!
Lucky. I had to do it in a few laptops or it wouldn't even have allowed me to boot from USB
Odd, I never had that issue. I wasn't aware it could happen.
I see how that could be confusing for novice users.
“
.”
By this logic people that don’t know how to drive vehicles shouldn’t be using transportation in the first place. Right…right?!
It's an and statement you breedable little shit you can't just ignore one of the conditions in the statement.
If someone can't drive a vehicle and doesn't want to learn he will not, in fact, be allowed to drive.
Many people will simply abandon their desktops and laptops, and strictly use their smartphone.
I'm not sure if you've trying using the windows installer but it is terrible. Linux mint is much easier to install provided that you can create a USB.
Its still above most peoples ability
I guess by "Windows installer" I actually meant the setup wizard that runs the first time you boot an OEM machine from the factory. The thing 99% of Windows users actually see. Not sure if that's significantly different.
And if you want to claim even that is terrible, I really have to question by what metric you're measuring. Is it because it doesn't give you the options you want, like creating an offline user account, or because it's full of bloat screens for products like OneDrive? Sure, I guess. But I'd say having these criticisms are very specifically the kind of things that make you an outlier compared to the average person I'm talking about. These are things normal people don't bat an eye at. Giving them more control just intimidates them.
And yeah, I'm sure you agree, "provided [they] can create a USB" is a huge ask for a lot of people. Child's play for us, but weird and scary black magic to most. Guides can and do make it crystal clear what to do, but as long as it feels spooky to download and run the magic programs, no one will feel comfortable doing it.
My metric is helping loved ones try to navigate it. (Spoiler: they can't)
On Linux mint the setup is very smooth. There are things you could complain about on linux but the initial setup isn't one of them.
the setup process for the first run of a new windows machine is called the out of box experience. its truely awful in the way it railroads you but a setup process is a lot more approachable than an installer.
I recently installed elementary os on a Dell laptop and Fedora on an older super shitty Dell laptop. Honestly I know it was a bit of luck but both installs could've hardly gone smoother. The install itself? Easier than windows and absolutely faster. Out of the two computers, assuming patience with learning a new thing, there was barely friction and this could've been done by most people with a little gumption.
I told the laptop owners that the touch screen wouldn't work on the newer one. Just assumed that was a weird hardware software combination that would be very difficult if not impossible to get working. They were ok with that because essentially both computers were slow trash and we were trying to salvage them. Lo and behold though-- the touchscreen worked out the box with literally no effort. It didn't behave how the owners wanted (like it did on windows), but 15 minutes of googling and a reboot and the touch screen was working exactly as it did on windows. Obviously Linux isn't for everyone but when 1) it's gotten this good and 2) the alternative is trashing a computer, it really saddens me to see a long diatribe shitting all over the possibility of salvaging a lot of these computers rather than throwing them away.
My point was not that installing Linux is intrinsically difficult, it's that people who have "a little gumption" to figure it out are a far rarer breed than you seem to believe.
Also, I wasn't intending to "shit all over the possibility" of salvaging old PCs. I support that! I think Linux (Mint, specifically) would be a perfect drop-in for most light use Windows users, as it is a stable and friendly solution to common needs. I was just raising the part most people overlook: actually getting it running. Not just the technical challenges, but the mental ones, too. The people who stand to gain the most from a free and stable OS are paradoxically the same people who are the least equipped to find and set it up.
We have a long road ahead of us to normalize the procedures of obtaining and installing a new OS in the public eye. Linux can be as user friendly as you like, but it's all for nothing to the average Joe if he doesn't understand how to get it. Or why he should even bother getting it, for that matter.
I'm reading and agreeing, really vibing with what you're saying. Then you have to go and fumble it on the last line. Come on, man! Every soda afficianado knows Dr Thunder is the poor man's Dr Pepper
Sorry. Got my wires crossed with Mountain Lightning.
I thought it was intentional like "this is not only cheaper, it's notably different"
They even got it right with the lack of a period, but still fucked it up so bad 😔
The way I see it is 240 million computers have two different courses. One is to just drop the hardware, the other is to update the software. What is granted is that, if you decide to update the software, you will have to research how to do it. You may end up just buying new hardware, or hiring someone to do the job, but there's a chance to just go for it.
If people go for upgrading their OS for themselves, then they have to research how to do it, and when they do it, they will probably find out that some thing called Linux could fit their needs. If Linux enthusiasts don't say shit, they will install Windows for sure, otherwise, maybe they will install Linux. I'm not saying this is the year of the Linux desktop and/or this is a huge opportunity to convert PCs to Linux.
It’s still different from what most people are used to. Thee would be a learning curve. And swapping an operating is no easy task for most, either.
Pretty much this. Linux users often forget that, when it comes to specifically operating systems, the vast, vast majority of people are used to what they know, and literally instinctively reject change of any kind.
Most people do not even know what an operating system /is/.
Any one who has ever worked in IT knows this, that the vast, vast majority of computer users are laughably technically incompetent, to the point that they usually get angry when you try to explain basic foundational concepts to them.
Then add on top of that decades of marketing that conditions most of the small minority of people who bother to attempt to learn anything about software and hardware into basically believing slogans, tag lines, and going gaga for tech that has some acronym or cute name, which they understand nothing about beyond the most surface level description.
Summing up, while it is possible to convince a person to switch to a new OS, it is maddeningly difficult at best nearly all the time. People basically demand a perfect product, even though they cannot even come close to beginning to describe what its features would be, and will instinctively assume they know more than actual tech experts all the time.
That being said, if you could run a business of basically buying or acquiring used laptops for cheap, refurbishing them with a stable linux OS, and then reselling them, you might be able to have a successful business, but the problem is that flashing OSs all day long is extremely, mind destroyingly boring and unfulfilling.
We're gonna pick them up secondhand
Damned right we are!
If you are so bad at using a computer you can't open a PDF, then you won't notice the difference between windows and linux
What a dreamer
The average consumer isn't going to toss out a good computer they bought if it can't run Windows 11. They're certainly not installing Linux. They'll keep using Windows 10 for as long as they can. I've seen way too much of Windows XP still running on people's computers, if it can still browse the web, access emails and look at Facebook they're not spending money on a new one
Good point XP held on forever
The stenographer for our local zoning & planning board still uses a XP netbook. Couldn't believe my eyes when I first saw it
Could be some software that is no longer supported.
Good point. What about hardware drivers? Do the OEMs use OS support deprecation, as an excuse to bail on shit? Or are driver updates irrelevant to a dead OS bc it's in stasis?
My though was their preferred stenography keyboard was made by a company that is now defunct, ergo no updates. Possibly could be overcome with techy means, but I'm guessing the stenographer doesn't have those.
I mean stopping Windows updates is really more a win than a loss half the time. They've forcefully installed so much of the shitware in Windows 10 updates that makes Windows 11 awful. It took me an hour to strip all the bullshit off of my partner's Windows 10 that he left to auto-update.
Auto update has been a pain in the arse. Was doing a presentation for a group assignment with a Windows user and just before we were about to go up the thing just decided on a whim to install an update. Funnily enough he said he wanted to try Linux after that
It's actually astonishing to me how much better Linux deals with updates compared to macOS and Windows. "Oh, updates are installed, and you just need to restart whatever I updated if it's currently running."
Sometimes it does have its moments though, like when it updates some core package and changes its config in such a way that the next boot doesn't go into a GUI, but I think it's also fair to point out Windows has had those too. And macOS High Sierra with the performance and security issues it initially had on release won't go unmentioned by me either.
Half of India tech industry still runs on windows 7.
Same here
I’ll keep using the computer I bought for as long as possible even if support for windows 10 ends
Agreed. There usually needs to be a big demand for a shift. Kind of like with Android development. Things tend to slow down once they run out of good ideas.
For Microsoft I think the next big move could be for a whole solar system calendar, e.g. symmetry 454, then synchronise that with a local family/group calendars, social events integration etc, throw in something like bing coin, then throwing it all into a big new multi compatible platform available to all of XP, 7, 10 and 11, add some games shit in there to compete with steam deck, then throw in some hardware CPU cooling accessories to prop up the trash software until they spend the next ten years updating like Lenovo bridge, it so that they can let optimizing their software enough to not fuck things up.
As for how the hell they plan on making money from it all, I suspect that the accessories will eventually lead to subscription costs for certain OEM support. This will encourage OEM manufacturers to engage directly with consumers and retailers to invest in the recycling process so that they can jack up prices across the board.
Use this money to add their shit into some NASA computers for extra hype. No big long term plan, just getting their logo and their foot in the door with the next big direction for computing lol
People aren't going to throw the PCs out. They are going to continue using Windows 10 for years without security updates.
I still saw XP installs a decade after support had ended.
“a decade after support had ended” for Windows XP is not until April next year.
It depends on the definition of "support ended". Like, there are various forms of extended support that you can pay for for versions of Windows, and some companies do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows\_XP#Support\_lifecycle
So for those, we're all definitely a decade past the end of normal support. However, they have their extended support packages that can be purchased, and we aren't a decade past the end of those...but most users probably aren't actually getting those:
For the typical, individual end user, one probably wants to have been off Windows XP by 2008.
Windows 10 IoT LTSC version will be receiving security patches until 2032 its what all my work VMS are based on right now.
You're ignoring the fact that they ended XP support for months and then brought it back for literal years after so much outcry
The problem is most people don't have the technical ability or interest in switching to Linux. Here is the solution:
The solution is donate them. Don't send them to a landfill. Give poor students a free laptop with Linux installed, etc. There are probably thousands of uses for an old computer that are better than sending it to a landfill.
Make correct marketing,create tools which will user switch OS with one click,create tech support gor usual people with small prices
Linux doesn't support my DAW or audio interface. I'm not throwing away thousands of pounds of software and equipment to use Linux.
I would happily give it a go if cubase / uad interfaces were supported.
For me, it's the lack of support for the audio HW. Infuriating.
Maybe there should be a centralised GitXXX documentation „Windows to Linux” with everything from choosing a distro to troubleshooting and links to appropriate wikis. There are so many guides/blogs, each saying something different
There have been. Creating another one creates another one. Not that someone shouldn't, but it will always be one among many.
True, but I’m sure there could be something like „awesome-xxx” that’s just… one main one. Maybe I should just try doing that myself with my limited knowledge, I can’t really code, but I always wanted to contribute somehow
https://xkcd.com/927/
Windows now has a How to Install Linux tutorial...which seems odd.
I'd also bet that a huge portion of those offices rely on at least some kind of proprietary software that doesn't play nice/officially support Linux. MS Office, for example, or Autodesk's stuff. When I saw what a headache it would be to get these working on Linux, I just shrugged and decided I'd keep my dual boot available for when I inevitably have need.
You're turning up the cost dial for every additional workaround or adjustment you ask of people. Just to save what is fundamentally seen as $50-200 up front cost on a system for a new Windows 11 Pro license.
The article and post title itself alludes to the fact that windows 11 won't support millions of machines, so a w11 license is useless. And if you meant you can buy a PC that supports w11 and is worth using, for $50, I need to consult with you for the world's best shopping tips
Tip 1: it's free if you steal it.
I would use Linux but I heard that it doesn’t work seamlessly with NVIDIA gaming hardware
Depends honestly but for most people it will work fine if you use something like Pop OS, Nobara, or other distros that set it up for you (or you know how to set it up yourself but that's unlikely to be the case)
It is far too confusing what to use - even as someone who uses Linux on various servers, a media centre, WSL and used to run a Gentoo laptop I still don't know which distro to use, let alone which of KDE/Gnome, X11/Wayland, init/systemd etc.
just try one in a vm?
also, most of the differences are not that big, any one of them will work fine for most people.
Exactly. I tried using Linux and I just don’t understand how to use it, and I consider myself fairly tech savvy. It would bring my productivity to a grinding halt if I had to switch to Linux.
I'm like this with windows these days tbh
I get to the desktop and I'm like how the fuck do I even use this thing
Exactly. I've not used many Linux flavors that are as confusing as what they have done to windows since v7
Did you install gentoo or something? Zorin or Mint is just install and use it (just like Windows)
What if, sometime after Win 10 loses support a virus takes advantage of the lack of patches and propagates across all the machines with a simple message "This operating system is no longer supported, please click here to upgrade." The button then runs a script to download and install a user friendly Linux distro. The world is then saved.
Chaotic good
Make it install temple OS, so that it can save not only the planet but also our souls. Amen. 🙏🙏🙏🙏
My kind of hopes.
Microsoft: Arbitrarily increases the system requirements for Windows 11 even though it runs perfectly fine on older pcs just to get people to buy new computers
Also Microsoft: Why's there so much waste??
I found it absolutely amazing they claim my pretty decent laptop from 2016 can't run Windows 11. Laptops haven't gotten that much better since then. Also, supposing it actually couldn't, it's a fucking operating system. It should be doing everything it can to stay out of the way. What kind of bloated monstrosity is Windows 11 that my laptop can't run it?
It's the trusted platform module which I know almost nothing about but I'm sure is fucking stupid. My monster of a desktop from 2018 also can't run win11, and the only reason is my cpu is missing the tpm that it requires.
When has MS indicated they care about waste in the least?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/compliance/environmental-compliance#:~:text=Waste%20commitment,operations%2C%20products%2C%20and%20packaging.
This is a marketing page that any big company has a version of. I meant by action, not lip service
There is a link immediately over the headline in the url I shared. Read the report. I used to sell green asset disposition of electronics. It's been an industry for a long time. It makes a difference. See what you want to see man. I can intro you to people in that business if you'd like to pick their brains. I don't know who owns this at Microsoft but I can ask contacts there, if you'd like me to help get you an intro.
We all know that won't happen because most users don't give a shit about things like conserving hardware or the resources that went into making them, and will just use this as an excuse to splurge on the latest shiny device.
Fuck the users
Herein lies the rub where the discourse online always fails. It's easy to blame the rich, corporations, politicians, etc. but the end of the day they're simply doing what the masses want. We are the problem.
Now that said, I understand the appeal of blaming a smaller segment of the population because it's easier to shift blame and it's easier to force change that way, but rest assured Apple stops making a new phone every year their brand dies unless everyone stops doing it. They're doing it because we are conditioned to want it.
We are the underlying problem. All of us.
Edit - having my point proven is amazing.
If you're saying everyone is providing your point, I think you disproved your own point.
Conditioning a behavior is basic psych101. It's a controlled external stimulus which illicits a desirable action from the subject. So a conditioned consumer is subject to external stimulie which illicits them to spend. I wouldn't blame the subject here, I'd blame the one doing the conditioning.
Regardless of all that, you are right but so wrong. We are all to blame, but I mean corporations and us. Politicians and the oligarchs aren't responsible for what you or I do. What they are responsible for is manipulating systems to benefit themselves over the interests of the general public.
Since politicians and the business elite wield so much influence that makes them more responsible than you or I who really can't make a big difference on our own. You're blaming the proletariat for being the proletariat, but we don't choose whether or not we are. You can work as hard as you can your entire life and you'll never amount to the level of power and influence Elon, Jeff, Mark, Bill, or Steve had/have.
Nah, that's shit. We are not the problem. The people in this thread don't seem to be the kind of people to go out and buy the latest device every 6 months. I keep my phones for years until either the performance or battery becomes nearly unusable for me. I install Linux on older hardware (and newer hardware) and buy new hardware when necessary, not every time it comes out.
You can blame the average person, sure, but saying all of us is just incorrect.
fuck me harder ms yes daddy yes please mmmm thats good keep going harder harder HARDER YES
fr tho, that 'smaller segment of the population' owns the means of production/computation. so yes, I do blame them. and so should you and anyone with more that a couple folds in their brain.
Nah I haven't bought a new machine in years, sticking to the old school bro. But I get it, a lot of people who are gamers or streamers would definitely buy in and I get why too because so long as the internet speeds keep increasing, there will be more streamers for the next big game or influencer chit chat etc
Who the fuck throws out their computer when it's still working???
A lot of businesses. I've stocked an entire network lab out of waste bins from buildings with tech companies in them. Laptops, monitors, network gear, cabling. I once scored a whole box of 100W USB-C chargers.
You could make a living reselling stuff online.
I'm sorry, 100W USB-C is throwaway stuff now? Wut?
Federal, state and local government , multinational companies and boomers.
Literally just talked to my mother-in-law who was talking about throwing out her laptop because Windows 10 is losing support and she can't upgrade to Windows 11.
It would probably run linux perfectly.
But I would never put linux on it. I am not doing tech support for my MIL who just admitted to me that she "locked down her machine because she fixed the registry issues windows has and turned on ipv6 on her router" and alluded to changing other settings but she cant understand why her "wifi keeps dropping out" and thinks its because the neighbors installed a ring doorbell.
Except for that last part, sounds somewhat plausible...
Doorbell is wireless, from temu, and is missing FCC compliance sticker.
Just a hunch.
Don't let her throw just send me😫
State governments usually are required to place all of their computers up for sale through surplus. (Hard drives usually removed and destroyed). I have been through that process at a State College and a University. They aren't just thrown away. I imagine there is a similar process for federal computer.
True they give it to "recyclers" who try to sell what they can and throw the rest. I know this because I used to work for the "recyclers"
Yeah, when access to raspberry pi's and such was none existant I knew a few people who would pick up old Optiplex computers and such to use as media servers and such. Old dells used to be very reliable. Throw whatever distro on there gui or not, and the shitty graphics cards wouldn't matter much
All of whom have processes software and employees who are not prepared to swap to Linux
Linux users
Wat
Ummm... what??
Assuming 3 cm thick laptop x 240 mil = 7,200 km. Moon is on average 380,000 km away. Even 30 cm thick laptops (lol) would only get you to 72,000 km.
They're stacking on the longest dimension after opening up the laptop.
XD that would still only get you half way to the moon!
They said "600 km above the Moon", so assuming that the laptops are 2.5mm thick, and stacked on the surface of the moon...
Yeah, well, a piece of paper folded in half 50 times would reach two thirds of the way to the Sun, so take that!!
Although I’m not surprised, it is interesting that the same big tech companies like Apple and Microsoft taking stances on being “environmentally conscious” while also ignoring forced obsoletion of old hardware. Your average office environment just needs basic email, document/excel editing software and a browser. Now to continue to do these base functions, they have to buy new PCs to do the same exact thing. And it’s not even faster anymore due to the bloat.
If tech wants to preach about the environment, they best start figuring out ways to keep computers out of the landfills.
Or make repurposing a thing.
That's purely greenwashing marketing hype, with Apple being the worst offender. Now Microsoft seems to be following in their footsteps, although they're still better in this regard than Apple.
But buying new things is good for the economy!
(/s in case it's needed)
Was it EVER faster though? My experience with Windows has always been that they release new versions based on upcoming hardware specs and unless you spend top-dollar on the very latest hardware for their next release, you are going to see things moving slower on the new desktop. That's one of things I've enjoyed about linux, you can pretty much always upgrade the OS on an older machine without concern of taking a hit on the performance, and sometimes you even get a boost.
It will be mostly Enterprise upgrading. The average consumer buys the cheapest laptop they can get. They won't be upgrading. I think nowadays not many average consumers even use computers. They just do everything on a phone.
Most enterprise is going to continue to pay for extended windows 10 support especially for things like embedded control systems running windows 10 ltsc/iot.
It's 50/50. The last Enterprise I worked at they would NEVER agree to pay that. They'd rather get new machines
Windows 11 won’t work on my laptop. Installed Linux a few weeks ago. Works better now than it did with Windows 10.
That picture generated by Dall-E looks like it came straight out of Wall-E.
My desktop and laptop are both eligible to upgrade, but I keep declining and will likely switch to linux when win10 support ends.
Why wait? It's a process, so I would start asap
I've thought about it, but right now everything works exactly the way I need it and the only complaint I have is the occasional pop-ups from MS trying to get me to upgrade to win11 or switch my browser. My main uses for my devices are games and I just started back to school, so MS Office is nice to have. So, it's hard to justify putting in the effort to change things now, especially when I know how to use MS products very well, particularly modding games.
Yeah. I feel ya. I still have windows on dual boot for certain things and it's been a struggle at times but I gotta say I dread the times I need to boot windows! So much slower and annoying
I'll install linux on my gaming rig when w10 support ends, I hate w11
Why not try it now?
I did, discord was a mess (the systray icon not working and couldn't stream audio), no parsec host support and other little things.
Yes, there are alternatives/workarounds but it's too much of a hustle to play some games if the alternative is w10, I already know how to optimize it/solve common issues and for this specific case "it just works"
Do you mind me asking which Distro you had used? I recently switched from w10 and haven't had any issues with discord or audio.
Which distro did you use? I have a win 10 laptop and I might switch over to a Linux distro
I been using Nobara instead of Windows for about 4 months, so far haven't had any major issues. Updater works and hasn't broken anything yet, found installs Nvidia drivers without issue. Only issue I have is that the few times I stream on discord for friends it doesn't capture audio.
I tried Linux Mint, then I switched to Nobara and I had issues with discord in both, the systray icon not showing green when I was speaking/muted and I was unable to screen share a program with sound (then I looked up and found it's a discord problem not giving a shit about linux users).
Then the gaming part was pretty messy, specially when I tried to run pirate games or games like league of legends, I spent 2 days trying to make league of legends work with lutris (i don't play that game anymore so now it shouldn't be a problem)
The funny thing is that I have a linux server on which I self host a lot of services and I've been tinkering with it for +4 years now, I'm pretty used to Debian and Fedora in the terminal, but when it comes to desktop I get lost pretty easily.
By the way, which distro do you use?
The discord thing is improving (slowly), also partly it now recognizes Linux games launched from steam, but not proton ones. I haven't tried lutris or anything yet, but I haven't booted into windows for weeks now.
I've also become more comfortable with Linux in general so that's likely helped too.
I also have issues with Discord, they just don't get the linux paradigm. Running it in a browser seems to work okay though (I use Firefox).
I have a 12 year old CAD workstation that won't run Windows 11, but will run Mint just fine.
That's the MS business model in partnership with PC makers. It's a juggernaut. They've operationalized it.
TIL that MS can be either mean MicroSoft or MassiveShit and that they would still mean the same shit
Did you learn that just today???
WinTel 2.0 🤢
Because the vast majority of people don't have a reason to do it. They've never used Linux before - heck there are people who have never heard of it before.
The other thing is you and I, chances are can find a use for our old machines, have a place to store it, or know how valuable it currently is. Most other people aren't aware of how parts or entire systems depreciates, don't have a use for a second computer, and can't afford the storage space to store a spare PC for a backup. They also don't really have time to do a lot of research on the issue or just plain old don't care.
So what do they do? Well there only remaining option is to throw it away, maybe theyll be a bit wise and take it to an electronics recycler, where you have to trust it won't get thrown away anyway.
They will be in the ditches alongside rural roads with the tires, couches, and washing machines.
Nature at work. In 1000 years the government will pay child slaves to mine them for the new microchip implants. Smoggy fields of children burning plastics off metal to feed the dreams of the rich and elite.
The same as it ever was, the same as it always will be.
...I don't know why I wasted my time making this useless post. 😑
Exactly. Used mine to learn Linux and proxmox. I'm also someone's who would be here.
More computers for us poor folk!
Same here
Why not give the poor some of our old and used computers?
Cheaper laptops and old computers for everyone could start with switching to Linux
This isn't a new thing. Free Geek has been refurbishing computers and installing Linux on them for over two decades now. It started in 2000 in Portland, Oregon and has since spawned affiliate locations elsewhere, including in Oslo.
There's one in Minneapolis too!
Yup! A friend took me by there a few months ago when I was visiting him.
One of the 240 million would've possibly been my friend's "old" gaming PC with a Ryzen 9 3900X, that he said could not upgrade to Windows 11. He sold it to me for cheap and I put KDE Neon on it. So far, it's running smoothly except for the challenge of trying to automate mounting a RAID 1 set of drives.
I use "gnome-disk-utility" for mounting disks.
Heck if I can get a computer to mount a drive on login.. but "disks" let's me do that easily.
Granted that might be different for your setup. So ymmv
I am not sure if posting this in a linux community raises the awareness to a relevant degree.
I am not sure if i am scared by the fact that there will be potentially 240 million pcs still running windows 10 and are posing as potential bot net.
Capitalism must feed. And, if we don't give them huge electronics landfills to search for scrap, what are our children and grandchildren going to do for work?
I’ve had windows 10 tell me I can’t upgrade to windows 11 because my SSD was formatted incorrectly even though it had always ran windows 10 fine. None of this was properly explained to me or how to fix it. By the time I finally got it working I didn’t even want windows 11.
I think Microsoft should actually be forced to either extend support or give the user one option to be secured. With the later I mean pay for license or click here to automatically choose a Linux distro that the user will be migrated to. It could be Mint or one of MS own Linux distribution with OneDrive preinstalled and links to Office 365 online word. Even install Android could be one option.
This is better than getting all the devices on the landfill.
Remember that 99% don't know what to do with their computer or are lazy. One easy fix should be available.
This is why we need functioning representative government. Something this big needs regulation.
No entity can own a percentage of the global fucking economy and be less accountable than a member of the UN.
Yes, many other products as well. Not sure why there are no regulations regarding e waste.
The thought of this makes me feel a lot of emotions at once. I don't think any are good... If MS made a version of Linux, I can't even fathom how insanely badly they would fuck it up, nor can I imagine it ever happening. I cannot think of an analogy to illustrate this properly really. But yeah, hell freezing over seems like a starting point for describing the likelihood of it.
I have fantasized that MS will come to terms with how shit their core OS is and eventually make something Linux like, based on a lot of free stuff. But that feels 20 years off, and like an absolute fantasy still.
Chief, MS has multiple internal only Linux distros and publically they have CBL-Mariner and I think another that I forgot. They are mostly used with Azure. They really aren't that much more different to what I know to any other (common) distro out there
Fair enough, but I think anything consumer facing would be a whole different animal
I don't think they would do Linux. Better if they did a stripped down version of their OS that can run like Chrome OS. Secured with a web browser. Little maintenance as so much has been removed.
I think with the current staff in the ranks at Microsoft and leadership opening the ecosystem for end user devices, they could build something sound. (Don't sleep on the amount of our world infrastructure running on their OS's. They are trusted for reliability.) A decade ago I had to reprimand by team for showing up to a mtg in Redmond with a stack of MacBooks and iPads. Now staff have iPhones.
The problem is the business looks for a buck in all the wrong parts of their massively horizontal set of goods. So their Linux will be bloated with cross selling adware.
I'm guessing it'd be cheaper for MS to just keep providing security updates for Win10 than to create a whole Linux distro...
It probably is. But MS choose how they want to keep the control of the users. But just leaving them like this is just bad. I feel EU should force them to give a solution since the computer came with Windows so it is their responsibility.
One alternative is to give them Chrome OS, or they might prefer building their of version of it.
Today I see a computer as end of life when it is to slow to view webpages. Often like when it is to little RAM available or the CPU is really too slow. Then I think Microsoft could stop caring about it.
I guess I should hold off on upstaging my systems. There are going to be a lot of deals.
That's what I'm gonna do with my Windows 10 gaming machine. It's been working just fine since I bought it in 2016.
give endeavouros a try. ive been using it for games on my amd system and it runs like a dream
I'm Intel/Nvidia. I'll give it a try anyway. See what fits my hardware best.
Or just circumvent the "requiments" that are so required that a few registry hacks disable them, allowing you upgrade to win11 via windows update.
Or if you want a fresh install, use rufus to create the install usb stick, and select the option to disable the tpm requirement.
I don't have the windows key anymore. To do that I'll have to reinstall the system instead of upgrading it.
"You can simply remove the appraiserres.dll file in the Windows 11 ISO file to make the Setup avoid these checks and install Windows 11 on any unsupported hardware too." From the following article: https://nerdschalk.com/how-to-use-rufus-to-disable-tpm-and-secure-boot-in-bootable-windows-11-usb-drive/
That sounds hard, but Rufus made this easy. Just select the right option. So just use Rufus to create the install usb: https://rufus.ie/en/#
This also allows local accounts, and disables all the tracking bullshit with a single click each.
If the computer was purchased in 2016 the license key is likely tied to the motherboard from the factory, so unless you swap the board, the original key may pull on its own.
Would be cool if Microsoft launched a new fangled cloud operating system, they've already got Bing AI, Onedrive, GitHub on the side and other infrastructure in place already.
Offering a Microsoft centered cloud computing operating system would allow them to dump or discard their other investments like GitHub, while holding both the money and infrastructure to competing against their old pals working with Linux and other GNU stuff.
The ultimate betrayal I tell ya hahaha 🤣
Nah just jokes, I would suck at writing or doing white collar crime but I would sure hype it up in an action novel alright
BingOS was it's name-o.
Damn, where is that magic landfill?
Many companies still use Windows XP, so...
Connected to the internet?
I hope, mostly no. It is needed to operate various old equipment.
Plenty of Windows embedded devices on the internet, running a flavor of Windows very similar to XP
I tried to use XP in a vm a while back. The latest browsers that would run on it could barely view most websites. web standards are insanely different compared to 2005 or whatever, and a lot of sites weren't even usable
Did you install Firefox or Chromium? As these support much newer standards than Internet Explorer on Windows XP.
Firefox I remember. I feel like the newest version that would install on XP was like v7 or something. an incredibly old version, whatever it was. I think I tried chrome too and maybe couldn't even find an installer that would work. Can't remember for sure.
Windows 7 or Linux would be fine, Windows 10 is hardly that bad
Windows 7 is even older and already out of support for almost 4 years now. Why would you downgrade?
Only Linux makes sense in this case.
Windows 7 is even older and already out of support for almost 4 years now. Why would you downgrade?
Only Linux makes sense in this case.
My laptop is a cast off from a member of my staff who said it was too slow - a (dmidecode) - Product Name: HP 255 G6 Notebook PC. It now runs Arch (actually).
It previously slogged along with Win 10, Outlook n O365 n that. Now it does Libre Office, Evolution and much more. I use KDE, which isn't known for a light touch on the resources. I also do light CAD and other stuff.
My office desktop is even older - it was a customer cast off, due to be skipped around six years ago. I did slap a SSD into it and I think I upped the RAM to 8GB. Its a (ssh, dmidecode): Product Name: Lenovo H330 and the BIOS is dated from 2012! I run two 23" screens off it and again, it runs Arch (actually) and KDE for pretty stuff. I run containers on it - at the moment a test Vikunja instance. I have apache, nginx and caddy fronting various experiments backed up with postgres and mariadb.
Both devices are "domain joined" and I auth to Exchange via Kerberos, via Samba winbind. File access (drive letters for the Windows mindset) is currently via autofs. I have a project on at a member of staff's request to switch from Windows to Linux. I'm going to take my time and get it right. My current thinking is the Fedora KDE spin and this: Closed In Directory
I understand lots of the words in this post, but there are many that tell me I wouldn't get Linux up and running on any of my laptops or PC.
If you have an old laptop or PC why not give it a go? You could start here: https://www.linuxmint.com/ Another option is to install something like Virtual Box on your existing machine and try out running it as a virtual machine or two. 2 CPUs, 4GB of RAM and 20GB of virty disc will work for any Linux distro as a VM to start off with. There's also VMware Workstation - there's a free version. Do discover the joy of snapshots/checkpoints which allow you to roll back failed changes!
25 years ago the options were rather more limited. I started off dual booting Windows and Linux but I don't really recommend that these days, unless you want to run a gaming rig with both. Few people can afford two lots of top end hardware! I left Windows behind completely around 2004 or 5.
So what do people think of TPM, supposedly why they're doing this?
I'm suspicious, thankfully we have a larger ecosystem of Linux hardware these days so we're not totally dependent on windows PCs
I'm about to abandon/relegate my old Windows 10 PC to a backup, and replacing it with a raspberry pi 5 running Mint. I'm trying to run quieter with less power consumption.
win10 is still supported for 3 more years - if you pay for it.
IMO ppl should be using W10 IoT LTSC. That's the only right way to use W10.
Also, no Linux as Linux still can't run SM Office. /s
So you pretend that what was running on windows to run in Linux?. Dafuq people are naive af. We are talking mostly enterprise machines, most corporations didnt migrate to windows 11. So its not just installing steam lol
The post title is editorialized. The actual article had nothing to do with Linux.
A lot of the corporate software these days run on cloud or provide viable Linux support. We're hoping that at least this can be covered.
No, those computers can go to underprivileged communities so ppl can have access to word processor, programming, web dev, etc. They would be running Linux and be secure and functional.
Again, naive. People in underprivileged communities would struggle to even turn a computer on properly. Using Linux? Nice ideal, but not gonna happen.
Christ are you fucking serious? That's the most privileged, classist, ignorant comment I've seen in a while.
important tldr summary: "Many Windows 10 computers do not meet the Windows 11 system requirements"
i pretty much dont give a fuck what companies do.
except its hella destructive/wastefull to the environment.. and also will probably drive up the price of computers for everyone.
They should face huge fines for this kind of waste. $25M USD for each computer arbitrarily obsolete.
Because the hardware is being made obsolete for a reason. They are inefficient compared to modern hardware, consume way too much power and there are cheaper and more powerful options available.
A modern ARM-based computer like the Raspberry Pi 5 can outperform most computers and laptops running Windows 10 and have a smaller environmental footprint.
The problem is that the obsolete hardware is not cost effective to decommission and recycle. They have not been designed for an environmentally conscious world.
240 million laptops stacked on top of each other is not going anywhere close to the moon, this is a masterclass in hyperbole.
How many laptops before the bottom-most laptop fails from the pressure?
If the bottom laptop is a Dell Latitude I think they don’t recommend stacking them at all, but with HP Elitebooks I think we got away with stacks about 15-20 high before we had the risk of getting damaged screens. Probably 10x that before structural failure, but they’d more than likely compress down instead of one side before the other.
...as if the point ever neared actually doing it..?
The thought of stacking them reminded me of this: https://www.brothers-brick.com/2012/12/05/how-many-lego-bricks-stacked-vertically-would-crush-the-bottom-brick/
If you assume they're all 13" wide laptops and stacked them on their side to get maximum height per unit, you'd still fall 305,752 km short of the average lunar distance. You normally only see this level of hyperbole in the estimated street value cops give for drugs they seize, pretty impressive.
I get the reason for hyperbole, I just hate when it’s so clickbaity. I wish they would just be more honest with us. If you assume they’re all small form factor Dell Optiplex 3070 desktops, you could make a cube of computers as tall as the Burj Khalifa.
And even if the 240 million laptops were all 24" ultra wide behemoths, that's still only ~146,304 km; not even half the average distance to the moon.
I wouldn't even call the article hyperbole, but if we take the author in good faith, then they're just terrible at math.
It could never reach the moon, the tower would fall over much sooner.
Dang... Was hoping to kill two birds with one stone and solve that space elevator thing too...
/s
Because 1) it wont cut it and 2) when Windows 10 EOLs (and trust me MS will extend the current date) those machines will be trash either way.
It won’t cut…what
Probably meant that Linux wouldn't be appropriate for whoever's needs. That can be true for some cases, not really for casual browsing use cases when pretty much 99% of all the major players in the browsing industry maintain a Linux port.
Those users couldn't care less about if Windows is supported or not. They wont send their 240 million computers to the landfill, they'll just keep using them.
Either way, Windows 10 22H2 EOL is set to 14 Oct 2025 and Enterprise LTS to 12 Jan 2027. I'm sure Microsoft will cave around January 2026 whenever the first 0-day for Windows 10 22H2 Pro goes into the wild and extends support for the Pro version to 2027 as well for no extra cost. For them this makes way more business sense than having 240M machines infected giving a poor image of Windows.
Exactly. Personally, I'm relegated to Windows with a healthy dose of WSL. Wish it weren't so, but it is so.
I feel like most of these computers are underpowered and worthless to most people outside of a web browsing machine. Which is fine I guess if you don't have a computer at all. But when some of us are rocking six or seven computers in our house, do we need anymore?
There are lots of people who could use them. Schools, libraries, poor people.