I'll believe the economics are better when I'm not paying markedly more for everything in my life and my salary increases.
The politicians are so wildly out of touch with the citizens.
This idea that the data is "mistrusted" or "unseen" is ridiculous to the point of incredulity. I don't care what the data says, I know what my lived experiences are and everything is getting wildly more expensive except my labor, it seems. Show me any study you want, it won't change that groceries are 30%+ more expensive, my rent keeps going up, restaurants and bars have gotten nearly 50% or more pricier and my wage hasn't grown to match.
I’ll admit I’m a high income earner. I’ve never had to watch watch what I spend but recently even I’ve noticed increases in everything.
Groceries have doubled from what I paid in 2019. I buy almost the same thing every week and I compared.
Dining out has become much more expensive. Places I used to consider a good value are now expensive.
I ordered a basic meal the other day at a local place. A cheeseburger. Fries. Drink and my friend had a salad. It was almost 59 dollars. Six months ago it was around 30 dollars.
So now I have to watch my spending as everything has increased
Dining out is CRAZY now.
My wife and I were out and about last weekend and needed to eat so we hit a Burger King.
Meals for 2, nothing crazy, was $30... at freaking BURGER KING. We don't even have a sales tax here.
$21 was the bill for 4 people to eat fast food for lunch in my part of the USA today.
Y'all are paying too much for fast food, it's not worth that.
I'm just below the median income for my area. Before the pandemic, I was comfortable. I largely didn't have to worry about expenses, I could dine out a few times a month, cook meat more than once a week, buy a few hobby luxuries every few months. Could air travel for vacation once a year.
I drive a newish economy sedan, live in a decent area with one roommate, didn't have all that much but the 401(k) looked good and I had all I wanted.
Now things are tight. Just the other week, went to a bar that sold a damn good burger for $9 with fries. Could have a beer with it and get out under $20. The damn hamburger is $18 now and the beer doubled in price. I try to buy meat twice a month to eat, but my diet is far more bean and lentil based now. Eggs, while doubly more, are still cheap enough to be a frequent protein. My vacations are all at home now. I've taken to enjoying fishing, which is admittedly great, but I used to fly to Europe or other parts of the US once a year.
I do not know how folks on minimum wage get by here. Without forming a support network of other minimum wage workers to pool for rent and groceries, it has to be an insane struggle.
If this is the "improving economy", I don't want any of it.
I eat out often for work and my company picks up the tab. Part of why I didn’t notice for awhile.
I went to buy eggs and they were like 12 dollars. I could have swore eggs were a lot cheaper in the past.
I eat more hamburgers than I should and that’s where I’ve started to notice the crazy pricing. Like you said you could get a burger and beer for under 20. I use to pay 20 with tip and the tip was over 20%.
I can’t do that anymore.
I went to buy eggs and they were like 12 dollars. I could have swore eggs were a lot cheaper in the past.
Man some things have really hit the "I mean, it's one banana, Michael. What could it cost? $10?" levels of ridiculousness price wise.
Since I buy almost the same thing. I don’t pay attention to the cost per item. I just watch the total at the end.
My groceries went from about 80 a week to about 150-180 a week.
I have no clue how the average family is handling this. It’s become so insane even I’ve noticed.
I’m a republican but we need to seriously raise the minimum wage. There is no way anyone can survive on it.
It’s almost 14 here and you can’t survive on that.
I’m a republican but we need to seriously raise the minimum wage.
Uh, you might wanna consider if being a Republican is more important to you than not living in a country full of homeless starving people is before you cast your next vote.
Most of your fellow Republicans believe deep down in the abolishment of the minimum wage, and are adamantly against ever raising it again.
Me and a partner got fish and chips at a bar yesterday, one app, no drinks, cost us fucking $80. Good fish and chips but like not that good... When I first moved here I was making enough to eat out basically every day and not notice it. I've gotten two raises since then but everything is going up in cost so much if I go out twice a week I'm straining my bank account. I'm used to being poor this job was a complete game changer for me but I'm already noticing I'm starting to pick up habits again from when I was making like 1/3 as much as I do now.
Visiting Europe and prices are so freaking cheap for everything it feels like I’m in a different decade.
Someone was telling me they bought 3 carrots for SIX FUCKING PENCE in the UK when they visited a few months ago.
America is so fucked, I don't care what the office of the president says
The economy is doing better precisely because regular people’s lives are harder. A “strong” economy means more and more off the backs of everyday laborers. Not to mention intentional raising of unemployment rates to combat inflation. The system is fucked. There’s nothing in it for me and you.
Exactly this. Companies do better when they can exploit their workers for as much value as possible. That’s what a “good economy” looks like and it is the duty of every living human to hurt it.
This idea that the data is "mistrusted" or "unseen" is ridiculous to the point of incredulity
Yeah, I see the data every Sunday I go to the grocery store and it sure as fuck isn't making things better.
I can see all my grocery store receipts in my app up to two years ago.
Many things have gotten a lot more expensive, but some things haven't. I would put it at 20%, not 30+%.
Also, my mortgage didn't go up. Renters are getting screwed, that's for sure.
Finally, my wage definitely went up. Although many people did not have had their wages go up and they are getting screwed too
So I'm doing much better than two years ago.
The economy isn't bad for everyone.
But for many people, it's definitely bad.
To say that the numbers are wrong is a stretch though. The numbers just reflect averages.
I too have largely been doing better since the pandemic than before it. But I also bought a condo during the extremely brief price dip in early 2020.
I think a lot of it is living costs. If you were able to lock in a mortgage with low interest rates, and don't have to rent or look for a place to live right now, then you're probably doing a lot better than others and then the President's analysis may make actual sense.
On the other hand, I've gotten a couple raises but it hasn't felt like it. They've basically equaled out to inflation.
Same here, still doing fine in my low cost of living area. Not all of the USA is as bad as some of these reports.
This is called “propaganda” say it with me “prop-a-Ganda”
If everyone says they feel like the economy is bad, but the metrics say the economy is good, maybe the metrics are wrong or measuring the wrong things!
Possible; it's also possible they're believing lies being told to them by people who benefit from others having false beliefs.
Information asymmetry often works to the benefit of employers and landlords, for example. If workers and tenants do have lots of options, but don't believe they do, they're more likely to settle for shitty jobs and housing.
There's a common lie told by upper managers in a lot of industries: "Our business is perpetually in danger; so we can't afford to pay you more because then we will go out of business and you'll all lose your jobs anyway."
If workers and tenants do have lots of options, but don’t believe they do, they’re more likely to settle for shitty jobs and housing.
If workers and tenants are settling for shitty jobs and housing, the economy is bad. It doesn't matter if they technically have lots of options because the economy is structured to make them feel like they don't.
Capitalism working as intended 👍
Firing them into the sun would be extremely expensive. It's cheaper to just send them into deep space.
OceanGate had the right idea.
Crushing billionaires in the depths of the ocean is actually a good way to get their carbon back into long-term storage
Good point. Make gravity work for us rather than against us.
It's even cheaper to let them build submersibles.
The weird thing is, these information asymmetries make capitalism less efficient than it would be with less asymmetry. They don't serve the interests of capital; they serve the interests of management.
We’ve stopped being capitalist a long time ago. Now we have corporate feudalism. We prop up old companies, tamp down on startups, and do our best to make sure companies make most of their money from rent seeking.
(pst that's just capitalism)
Marx characterized this as "anarchy of production" - without centralize control, the whims of the market inevitably undermine economic growth. It's what causes the boom and bust cycles.
I think Marx also underestimated the class interest of the managerial class, which shows up rather vividly in actually-existing socialisms as well. Principal/agent problems are a doozy.
This. Wallstreet is doing great. The average US citizen not so much. But politicians really only care that CEOs are still getting their bonus checks, not that minimum wage workers are having to work multiple jobs to just barely scrape by. We need to reevaluate the metrics we use to drive policy decisions because they're rewarding the people that need it the least.
GDP was invented during the great depression. The rich have figured out how to game the metric: wealth inequality. You can give more and more to an ever narrowing slice of the country and "average GDP" can still be going up...despite the fact that much of that went to Elon Musk so he can buy another PJ or whatever.
Does the definition of "economy" actually include people or are we just looking at corporation numbers because I can believe THAT economy is going strong but there's no way I believe that the entire economy is doing just fine. You don't need to look further than the grocery store prices to see that.
Nothing, not even basic necessities like food, is even remotely affordable anymore, let along a roof over your head. Yet they still want us to work to the bone like slaves and have babies while somehow not having a place to live. Biden has passed some great legislation but the economy is nowhere near ok for anyone except the 1%.
Takes time to turn the ship around after only a single term of conservative rule. It's the same in every country. The right ruins the economy and then the left have to fix it while the right spends all it's time in opposition blaming the left for the mess they themselves caused (while trying to sabotage any reform).
Dude, the economy wasn't doing great under Obama either. He did the same thing, pointed at employment numbers and GDP while people were struggling. More than half the homeless people in my area report they did not come from another city. They had been slowly sliding out of being able to afford housing for the last decade. Even while working full time.
Obama who came in as the 2008 recession was in full swing? You're just proving his point.
And bailed out the guys who made the situation. One guy was charged when the criminal financial conduct was widespread and common knowledge.
That however isn't the point. The point is there was a benefit of doubt for Obama because he wasn't in office for decades beforehand. Biden was and is trying to run the country like it's 1980 still.
People know when their lives are getting better or worse. You can explain to them all you want about per-capita GDP, adjusted vs raw unemployment, whatever other jargon-crusted, hyperabstract measurement you care to explain, but people know the world they're living in. They know whether they're struggling to get ahead, struggling to stay even or struggling to slow the rate at which they fall behind.
Unemployment numbers don't mean a damn thing when wages aren't enough to live on. The profit has spoken and it says that the working class can starve outside for all it cares.
I hate both sides. How's the economy doing good when my wife and I work 40+ hours a week, both have college degrees, and can barely afford a 2 bedroom rental apartment in a shit part of the country let alone ever think about owning a house?? Btw second bedrooms for our son.
Economy's doing good for the wealthy.
Meanwhile the rest of us gotta make due with weakened spending power and income, COVID era social benefits being rolled back, etc etc
It’s not even doing good for the wealthy. Lots of corporate bankruptcies are occurring right now. Any business operating off cheap debt is getting fucking railed. It could be worse but it’s not like they aren’t taking losses right now. Some of them are fucked.
Look at this privileged asshole who thinks his son should have his own room.
You wanna hear something really fucked? Every state has a standard of rooms per child at X age. Basically you can only stick two boys or two girls in a bedroom once they're teenagers. Some states work with the parents and some states (it's the red ones) charge the parents with child neglect for not meeting this standard. So as this standard becomes completely unattainable what do you think the party of no abortions is going to do? Change the standard, or leverage it to break up minority families?
Nothing indicates a stronger economy than roaring inflation, high as fuck interest rates, tons of corporate bankruptcies, and bank failures.
What a fucking joke. This timeline sucks.
"The Economy" is the state of the ruling class's bank account. It has nothing to do with whether the working class can afford housing or food. /S
Except not /s
The US has better inflation figures than most other developed countries, wtf are you talking about?
Yes, mild inflation (2-10%) is a sign of a strong economy. Personally, I think the Fed target of 2% is too low nad it should be at 4% to benefit the working class more. Would you like to know more?
No just send me to the damn bug planet thanks
Yes, mild inflation (2-10%) is a sign of a strong economy.
Prove it, no appeals to consensus or theory
Ok, you're right. It depends on an individualcs defination of a strong economy. Generally, in a stable nation, a economic depression is accompanied by deflation. I can trot out FRED graphs that agree with me, but graphs are funny like the pirates vs global warming joke.
All that said, generally, in a stable nation, when alot of working folks are losing their jobs inflations slows hard or we hit a lil deflation.
A strong advancing economy means goods/services are easier to come by/afford (more advanced tech/infra), which for a currency with the same supply would mean decreasing prices, i.e. "deflation".
No. Is this a bad LLM bot?
Try thinking for a minute about the actual fundamentals. Same number of people, same amount of money, same amount of time put in, more goods produced, goods cost less.
People treat economics like a frigging religion, IDK how people end up believing the opposite of something so basic as that. And then to actually get that arrogant over it, saying I sound like a bad LLM bot. That's just rude.
Because, for a lot of people, the economy isn't improving.
Say you were on the verge of buying a house, interest rates have doubled, are at a 22 year high, and now you're priced out of the market.
Or, say you're like me and bought a house in 2021 with a 3.25% interest rate. You're locked in. You can't sell your house, a) because nobody could afford the 7% it's going to take to buy it and b) you likely can't afford the 7% it will likely take to buy a new house.
Refinancing isn't an option because who wants a higher rate. Ditto for a 2nd mortgage.
And this doesn't even get into rising food and fuel costs.
I don’t know how people are surprised by the current interest rates or market… when lockdowns happened my wife and I had bought our house a year prior and I immediately told her since we both had high paying and safe jobs we should remodel everything we wanted and buy three cars since I figured interest rates would get jacked up and supply economics indicated people were going to stop doing renovation work using contractors for a minute before supplies would get expensive.
These are all market reactions. It’s a rubber band of effects that happened because of the pandemic and the shock to the economy. Capitalism requires constant feeding so when the world stopped it for even a month it did major damage and when it went on longer in key areas it basically collapsed those sectors. It’s gonna be a while before things get better, but honestly this recovery is better than I expected.
Sounds like capitalism is the problem. Boom and bust cycles are terrible for working people and great for billionaires.
100% it’s why I mentioned Capitalism requiring feeding. It’s like when people say “I can’t wait for the next housing collapse so I can afford a home.” While forgetting the part of housing collapsed where the average worker can’t afford a house and often all that happens is the millionaire and billionaire class swoops in and buys up all the property. 08 wasn’t famous for making more average Americans able to afford a house. It made it so companies like Blackstone could go around and feast for cheap.
Facts
That isn't a reflection of the strength of the economy. That's just capitalism. Republicans are even further from being able to fix that. They somehow think getting rid of taxes and benefits will somehow fix that. Sure you can get some deflation if you increase the amount of debt of the populace, but that's not an actual fix.
Our economy's health is not directly related to the average person's buying power. One can argue that it's actually inversely proportional.
Our economy’s health is not directly related to the average person’s buying power. One can argue that it’s actually inversely proportional.
If that's the case then a weak economy is what we should be aiming for
Or just fix the problem and stop letting capitalism run rampant without regulations and start taxing the corporations and wealthy individuals who's own profits are responsible for a majority of inflation.
No I totally trust the people telling us the economy is strong despite everything I see around me. If the economy doesn't work for the people then it doesn't matter what GDP or any of the other big stats are doing.
I generally like Biden, but that's a crock of shit. Anytime news outlets claim that the "economy is strong", they're almost always talking about how it is for the investor and owner classes, not for the working class. This economy is absolute dogshit for the proles, how the hell is anybody supposed to survive under these conditions? I make OK money and I'm barely scraping by, I don't know how the fuck anybody else is still hanging on. Housing and the price of consumer goods needs to seriously come the fuck back down to Earth, it's squeezing people dry. I kind of wish people in apartment complexes would just start banding together and burn their rental offices down and just refuse to pay rents anymore, because whoever decides what "market rates" are for renting apartments are some of the greediest motherfuckers on the planet.
Rental prices are sickeningly high right now it's insane. I was excited to see that lawsuit against that rental price fixing company RealPage but it doesn't seem to have gone anywhere, frustratingly. If all the rental agencies are using the same automated tool to set their rental prices obviously it's going to artifically inflate them all.
Right?! That's a much bigger deal and one that absolutely needs a rush on taking care of but no one wants to change anything that makes a rich person somewhere money. They would rather slowly hang millions of the lower and middle classes than piss of a handful of rich people.
The economy matter less to the individual when wage growth has stagnated and most Americans are living pay check to pay check. The economy is healthy for the millionaire class, not the every day American.
Isn't that a feature of capitalism though, if people are forced to work 2-3 jobs at 60-70 hr/wk to cover bills, you have way more wealth generation per capita than if they were only working 32 hr/wk. The more you exploit your labor, the more your economy is booming.
I think the economy should never be a standard of measure.
I think people rightly don't believe it because it's apparent that the economic machine in the United States is not built for the benefit of the average worker, it's built for the benefit of the capitalist class that's captured the government. Republicans may be more up front about upholding the status quo, but there are plenty of corporate Democrats that will support the same status quo while chasing the social capital that comes with agitating for change that more progressive groups are pushing for.
People don't have faith when they're constantly sacrificed at the altar of "the economy" without seeing any of the benefits of an improving economy. For a good example, look at how the BNSF rail strikes were resolved before Christmas last year. Rail workers were striking for very reasonable things like 7 days of sick leave per year (up from literally 0, per the contract they had with BNSF) and appropriate staffing to prevent emergencies (like what happened in East Palestine, Ohio in early 2023), and what did Biden do? Biden, the guy who campaigned as one of the most pro-labor and pro-union presidents in recent history, stabbed them in the fucking back and made it illegal to strike because an unstable supply chain around Christmas spelled "economic catastrophe". Biden would rather go to bat for a large corporation than for the workers that corporation is shamelessly exploiting.
The pandemic is another great example. "Essential workers" were expected to risk their lives and those of their loved ones while business owners got huge loans they never had to pay back. Working folks meanwhile got a couple grand for the entire year and even then folks say it was too much.
I've never seen such a naked upwards redistribution of money in my life. At one point, the Fed gave itself the power to literally buy shares of funds itself to inflate the price.
Now since the free money has dried up with rising interest rates (which had to happen because the poors were finally seeing an opportunity to get a mortgage with low rates and that caused all of the inflation don't you know) businesses are raising rates on everything ever to sustain their profits.
Except the term "essential workers" became a hollow statement when it became obvious that it wasn't referring to "essential" to society, but essential to the economy.
Nurses and firefighters, hell yeah, but also bartenders? Oh, but definitely not restaurant servers. Oh yeah, but we gotta keep those Walmart baggers on the Frontline, can't risk cutting into the Walton's fortune.
Fucking clown world, I swear
An economy "going strong" for only those at the top isn't going strong at all.
But you see, stocks and GDP are up. So you're doing better. Walmarts profits are up 50% YOY. Ignore the fact they just decided to cut starting pay in spite of that.
Yes. Surely that will translate into savings for me at Wal-Mart, because costs under capitalism go up and down.
To be fair costs do go down...
When two parties of equal power are negotiating. Yeah they always forget to mention that part. I wonder why?
The stock market isn’t the economy… jic that’s what this article is referring to.
Uses a stupid fucking definition of unemployment, then tosses out a biased ass line disparaging peoples distrust of media.
But the poll found that 51% wrongly believe that unemployment is nearing a 50-year high rather than those who believe it’s actually low (49%).
How is the economy booming when Arizona Iced Tea is $1.29?
It's still 99 cents at the grocery stores (here in Texas) but at a major convenience store chain, they actually have Arizona cans printed 1.59! Like....WTF!
They have it in the drink station at a local gas station near my work. 33oz cup for $0.83.. I've had to control myself on the number of visits since that discovery. Oh yeah, not just the green tea with honey. They also have Arnold Palmer and Mucho Mango.
The amount of liquor I used to mix with the mango would've made this both a problem and solution for younger me.
At winco in Arizona these are 89 cents somehow, love employee owned grocery
The cost of literally everything is outpacing my income like Usain Bolt racing a sleep deprived tortoise.
"the economy" doesn't mean shit if it doesn't translate to the fruits of our own labor.
Usain Bolt would never let his tortoises get sleep deprived.
But other than that yeah the economy's down the shitter
Well, yes. If you are a high-income earner or if you make most of your money from rents or investments ... the 'economy' is strong. For the rest of us - we have to make choices between healthcare and food.
The stock market isn't the economy regardless of what they try to convince us of.
When so many people can't afford to buy food, let alone homes while being fully employed - the economy isn't working.
That depends on your perspective. If you're rich and getting richer, the economy is working. If you're anyone else, the economy isn't working. Your problem isn't that the economy isn't working, your problem is that you're not rich. Just pull yourself up by your bootstraps like the rich people did when they inherited millions to billions from their parents. It's not that hard.
While I'll add a /s to acknowledge the end of the posh tone I took, that really is the situation we're in.
Yes we need our media to focus on real economic measures that are closer to our lives. Consumer price index. Average gallon of gas. Wage growth. Housing costs.
This BS “unemployment” number is worthless and everyone knows it but they keep reporting it!
tell me what the housing and rent inflation rate has been since 2010. We all know the economy is fucked. A lot of this bullshit did happen during trump's artificially low interest rates.
Meanwhile, gas prices are driving up the cost of everything. again.
Lol America's prices are cheap as fuck
5.60 a gallon (1.51 per liter) where I am. Not anywhere near cheap for a country that demands you use a car to commute.
maybe that's part of the issue
It's absolutely part of the issue. We have the economic data that strong walking and mass transit cities helps local economies. But alas rich people find it hard(er) to make money on those concepts. They might have to forego the 3rd Yacht.
It's half of the price it should be.
I'm sure if you offered to pay double, they would accept. Put your money where your mouth is
That's because the average American doesn't benefit from a "strong economy".
Yeah. Record breaking costs and record breaking profit margins as far as the eye can see. Fuck off with this bullshit.
The economy is doing great but that doesn't mean shit for the working class, as intended.
You are of course correct, but it also has to do with russian and chinese propaganda trying to weaken the Biden admin.
This is why I am against states in general. While they play "hero", the working class is getting fucked over. I'd like to add, US Conservatives are also doing their best to undermine the Biden Admin.
The economy is improving for the rich corporate executives boasting about record-breaking revenue every quarter. For everyone else, prices are going up and their wages are not changing. Fuck the rich.
Of course they don't believe it!
Democrats do a shit job at celebrating their victories and communicating with average Joes.
Also this asinine "liberal guilt" prevents anyone from the Left to ever enjoy anything for fear that there might be one person out there who isn't doing so well and it would hUrTiNg tHeIr fEeLiNgS. It is absolutely exhausting dealing with these people who don't want to accept that unemployment is at an incredibly low number, interest rates are still at historic lows, wage growth is at 40 year record, inflation is dropping, and the economy is indeed booming. Times are indeed good, regardless of what the vocal naysayers tell people.
Then mix in an endless stream of foreign agent trolls who are purposefully trying to spread misinformation before the election. Whether they are Russian agents or right-wing conservatives masquerading as progressives, they are trying to bring people down because apathy is one of the best tools that Republicans have to keep people home on election day. Low voter turn-out usually helps the GOP.
Put all that together and it isn't surprising that Americans don't believe that the economy is strong.
How does any of this lower my grocery bill? Or gas or rent or daycare? I just found out it will cost nearly $25,000 a year for my family's health insurance. How am I supposed to feel good about the economy when I hear that?
You're supposed to feel good about the health insurance profits which the ACA was supposed to be a major victory against but record-breaking profits continued anyway. Truly an economic triumph story.
Motherfucker I voted for Biden and I think he's done a shit job. You'll seriously cry wolf about "foreign agent trolls" rather than accept that plenty of people have been disappointed with him? If this is the best that the DNC can do for their supporters, then they deserve whatever the MAGA fascists have planned for them.
I don't give a shit about "ThE eConOmY", I care about how ordinary people are affected. I don't know about all of you, but I'm still in an ever worsening situation. Biden has made little to no difference for me.
"The economy" is supposed to represent how ordinary people are doing, but now it's just targets and figures.
Also doesn't help that wealth inequality just keeps compounding...
Whenever I read the term “the economy” my brain substitutes the words “rich people’s yacht money” because I’ve never been affected by it one way or the other.
Good for them and their yachts though.
You have definitely been affected one way
Ya know, a 20% raise against inflation over the past 10 years would help.
Barely. Try 5 years.
So, 30%?
Currently striking United Auto Workers have asked for 40% over ten years.
This is all simplly caused by our refusal to build housing for the last 50 years. Almost all the pain is because of housing costs.
New housing is built all the time, just not in a places that are in demand where everyone wants to live at.
You mean you don't want to live in a 500k townhouse that is directly off the highway and has no walkability, sidewalks, or public transportation? Smh
Developers want to build anywhere and everywhere people would rent or buy, only thing holding em back is state zoning, licensing/permits, and far off in the distance (i.e. not right now), an actual lack of demand for housing.
Yes, of course. The real estate market is behaving in a way that is highly consistent with economic theory. It's so straightforward that just about any policy analyst from anywhere on the political spectrum could come up with the same exact list of problems. I think we can all appreciate that developers are merely trying to operate a business and that they owe it to themselves and their workers to operate sustainably and only take reasonable profit/risk tradeoffs.
Unfortunately, an appreciation for the underlying theory does not satisfy. Every day I walk one of the most unequal cities in America (Atlanta, GA) and am pained to see homeless bodies huddled against buildings made of solid granite. Just imagine if I tried explaining the economic realities of the housing market to the disabled veteran panhandling at my local MARTA station. Imagine his face as I tell him to please try moving to a suburb or maybe just be patient and wait things out for a few decades while we wait for the real estate market to respond to demand forces. He cannot wait. Exposure will eventually kill him.
I want my city to do what only governments can do and respond to the problem immediately at whatever cost necessary. I want public housing built ASAP because a heartbreaking number of local people are going to die if action is delayed. It is not humane to turn a blind eye while we go and chase the white whale of an economically ideal market solution.
There's a shitload of """luxury apartment""" housing going up by me. And most houses on the market are getting snatched up over asking price in no time flat.
The economy overall might be fine, but the average person can still not be.
People don't care much about data and facts on unemployment and GDP when ultimately their personal situation is what matters. Things are more expensive and wages for a lot of people haven't kept up. Already have too many people think that no/less inflation means prices go down, when actually that just means prices stay the same or go up slower. Deflation is off the table cause that can be even worse.
Sadly, there isn't much that can be done beyond sticking to higher interest rates and letting the market adapt and catch up.
Not much the president can do either, especially with this congress. Even if it wasn't, the changes and effects would likely take years to even reach fruition. Let alone have a significant impact for most people if all goes according to plan.
We have seen this scenario play out before.
Exactly. Articles like this are meaningless and only serve to boost his genuine fanbase.
They're not meaningless... they're ruling class propaganda telling us to feel fine with this
I wouldn't say it means to be fine with this. I think it's to stop people from switching away from Democrats to GOP because the Republicans only way to reach swing votes is to convince them they can do better with the economy. They're not going to win them over with their "anti-woke" agenda and oppressing various minorities. This is a Republican economy though. Not saying it's their fault, but it is the economy they aim for.
I'm not sure that this is the case but I'm not an expert. A recent opinion pieces by Krugman showed survey data that indicated that most people reported doing ok, while also saying the economy was not. Some of this might be related to individuals doing ok but being worried about the prevalence of folks struggling.
One key point is that at the end of 2022, 73% of respondents said that they were doing at least ok financially. So almost three quarters of households aren't significantly struggling, and yet a majority of people also say the economy isn't doing well, even when they are.
Now, many people are struggling, but many people are always struggling. The question is why is the proportion of people with a negative sentiment towards the economy out of whack with the number of people reporting doing ok financially.
I dunno; Krugman makes some guesses and the article is a quick read. If you hit a paywall let me know and I'll make a gift link.
The question is why is the proportion of people with a negative sentiment towards the economy out of whack with the number of people reporting doing ok financially.
Because people want to be doing better than just okay and they want nobody to be struggling. Especially when there's a few people who are making several orders of magnitude more than those who are "doing okay."
That's likely true, but is also always likely true. The question is why are the proportion of responses on individual household stability different than prior years with similar economic measures. It's something affecting perceptions, or are we missing a measure of the economy? Some l since the study is a long ongoing one done by the fed, and it is 73% doing at least ok, it seems like there is some interesting questions to form for further follow-up.
A couple things might have changed. First, the shared experience of the pandemic may have increased the average level of empathy - outside of some nutjobs. If you're doing okay but you care about the people around you struggling you won't think the economy is doing well.
Second, income inequality is now higher than at any time in history. Many Americans would probably put "fairness" as part of the criteria for how they judge the economy. While it's nice that your wages are keeping up with inflation, your boss's boss's boss's boss's boss got a seven-figure bonus on top of his eight-figure salary and nine-figure-plus net worth.
And while this will definitely raise the median and mean incomes nationally, people won't feel like things are improving, leading to data that makes economists shrug.
Then again, until recently economists had to create an entirely new species of hominid to explain their theories so I don't trust them to have a good idea of how normal people think.
I tend to agree in that I think much of the perception discrepancy is based on the belief that a greater proportion of the country is suffering, or that the suffering happening is preventable. To your point, inequity shapes people's perception and it's hard not to feel like big companies and execs are screwing people for a few extra percentage points. The general feeling that people are suffering and it is particularly avoidable compared to the (perception) in the past could explain negative attitudes towards the economy and inflation.
Thanks for the great conversation!
Thanks for the great conversation!
You too! The fediverse is just so friendly :)
Paywall.
But that is very weird if people think they are fine, but somehow others aren't and the economy isn't. At least enough to say that.
Yeah, the survey responses seem out of whack compared to historical data. It's odd, and worth thinking about.
What explains negativity about a good economy? Partisanship is surely a factor: Republicans’ assessment of the current economy roughly matches what it was in June 1980, when unemployment was twice as high and inflation four times as high as they are now. Beyond that, the events of the past few years — not just inflation and higher interest rates but also the disruption Covid caused to everyone’s lives, and perhaps the sense that America is coming apart politically — may have engendered a sourness, an unwillingness to acknowledge good news even when it happens.
Interesting option from the article.
So, it might be more "everything is falling apart or not the same" type of thinking. Could explain it and wouldn't surprise me.
Everything does seem different after COVID at least. Things don't feel the same even years after.
Seeing a Paywall. But that being said, does the article quantify how they are doing financially, or is it a self report on whether they think they are "OK" or not? If so, then are they actually financially OK, or is this a case of "I could be homeless, but I'm currently not, so I'm ok"? If so, there is definitely room for bias in that number. I live in a relatively low col area and cost for everything are up to levels that would definitely mess with those making under 45-50k a year.
If recommend looking at the article since it looks to the survey details. The survey I mentioned was specifically polling household's and 73% said that their household was doing at least ok. This is a long running study done regularly by the fed, and the proportion of responses doesn't fit with historical trends. So either something is missing on how we measure perceptions or how we measure the economy. Both lead to interesting questions.
The problem is even if inflation should be letting up retailers are continuing to raise prices without cause just to bolster record profits. Looking at you Kroger.
And literally every other large company. It's more greedflation at this point.
If the Dems try to run on status quo they will lose just like when Hillary did the same thing.
I dunno, Joe "Nothing will fundamentally change" Biden did OK.
He just did better than Trump. The amount of support Trump still has is ridiculous meaning it's more fervent than before. The reason Trump won originally could be why he wins again (if he makes it through primaries and doesn't get convicted). I don't think Biden can rest on his laurels for the upcoming election. Folks aren't happy and enough of them are either disinterested entirely and won't vote or mistakenly believe Republicans will fix it.
I am going to be so mad if the DNC decides to bunt on this next election and lets Trump actually win (I'm just going to assume we're still on the worst possible timeline and Trump won't be convicted). In a perfect world the DNC would find an actually good candidate in their couch cushions or something and run them, but since what we have is Biden, at least I don't know, pretend to give a shit about anything. Even if we all know it's bullshit at least promise to fix some stuff. I'm so tired of the Democrats running on campaigns that amount to "We're only 10% evil, so vote for us", while the Republicans campaign on "Vote for us and we'll do our best to legalize everything terrible about the 19th century, but if you're rich white and male, you'll probably be fine".
I'm less concerned about '24 than I am a '28 "Her Turn" Harris candidate. She hasn't been good or effective as VP and running her in '28 guarantees a Republican win.
The bar unfortunately was in the basement
Only because he was running against Donald "My entire tenure was a series of increasingly out of control trash fires" Trump. The DNC can't rely on the GOP always running literally the worst possible person. I mean, history seems to show they keep somehow finding a candidate that's even worse than the last guy, but still.
The day both the DNC and GOP run candidates that are actually you know, decent human beings that I'd actually want in charge of anything let alone the country I will be utterly shocked. It's never happened in my lifetime, and I somehow suspect it never will. But man, that sure would be awesome if it happened.
Joe, "If you pay more in taxes nothing will fundamentally change," to a room full of rich assholes Biden, yes.
It's too bad hat quote gets brought up as an anti-Biden thing when it was one of the somewhat cool things he said.
I think the reason is "nothing will fundamentally change" is a pretty accurate description of moderate Democrats, but that particular statement was actually progressive-ish rhetoric. His idea of higher taxes (or more accurately what you'll be taxing) isn't going to match progressives, but they're both sold as "rich people paying their fair share" not ripping their ill-gotten gains away from them.
When will legacy media start telling it like it is? The general public has said for decades that the metrics that determine what a “good economy” is doesn’t tell the reality of the average American.
Well, the media has worked very very hard to paint Biden in the worst possible light and not give him credit for anything other than putting on his pants each morning, so its no wonder people feel that way.
The fact is that our economy is booming. We will need to adjust out GDP upward before the end of the year if the strikes don't hurt. Virtually every country in the rest of the world has huge economic problems compared to the US.
On the other hand, when wage growth continually fails to even come close to inflation, the rah rah economy gaslighting falls a bit flat.
The US inflation rate is 3.7
Britain 6.8
Germany 6.1
France 4.9
Home prices and rent are crazy high, though. Plus student loans are coming back, no wonder everyone feels poor, unless you already managed to buy a home with low interest rates. So things are great for those people, I'm sure.
In other words, we're screwed and everyone else is double-screwed.
3.7 isn't too bad. Not great, below 3 would be good. But, as long as the rest of the world suffers we will too. Our main trade partners, Canada and Mexico, are doing all right so the chances are we won't slip into a recession. This is especially true because the US GDP is so good. This is a problem that COVID left the world.
It wasn't the media that convinced me that my rent went up last year, or that housing prices are going up, or that gas prices are higher, or when I purchase literally anything it is high than before, or that my employer can't sell anything but the most expensive stuff abroad, or that my health insurance premiums are up, or my stream services bill went up, or that my big raise last year has vanished, or that I couldnt find a job if I lost mine in a resonable amount of time....
I don't give a shit that some asshole who inherited 10 houses is sitting pretty, or that the stock market hits higher and higher due to buybacks/consolidations/inflation. I care about the stuff I deal with daily. In the real freaken world I am in big trouble if I lose my job and my money buys less and less.
Show me a single thing Biden has done that brings a real world bill down.
Republicans refuse to believe their politicians ever do anything wrong
Democrats refuse to believe their politicians ever do anything right
And generalizers continue to inflate a problems size.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
But two-thirds of Americans are unhappy about the economy despite consistent reports that inflation is easing and unemployment is close to a 50-year low.
But Harris’s data also shows that fears are widespread – and reinforced by disbelief of or ignorance about official figures and a mistrust of the media’s reporting of them.
The results paint a difficult picture for Joe Biden, who is making “Bidenomics” – his economic policy record – a central plank of his re-election platform.
Biden supporters have just launched a $13m advertising campaign extolling the president’s economic achievements, which include a landmark $1.2tn infrastructure and climate bill, massive investment in domestic microchips production and green energy solutions.
The widest measure of economic growth – gross domestic product – increased at a 2.1% annualized rate last quarter and has been steadily improving since the Covid downturn.
Americans either view the economy through their politics or aren’t feeling it in real life, or both,” said John Gerzema, the CEO of Harris Poll.
The original article contains 761 words, the summary contains 165 words. Saved 78%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
If unemployment could go into the negatives because everybody has to take a second job just to stay afloat, some dumbass economist would still come out and say how strong the economy is.
The economy is strong for the owner and investor class right now. Not so much for anybody at roughly middle class or lower.
Sure…thats why the major automakers workers are striking, because its so wonderful under biden. And gas is over $5 a gallon
thats why the major automakers workers are striking, because its so wonderful under biden.
Biden has very little to do with that. Those are the executives and shareholders of those automakers. Dems have tried to increase benefits for employees. It's mostly a no-go at the federal level.
The fact that Biden can't fix things is not a good look for Biden, it's a bad look for electoralism.
And why is that? Well, because there are a few democrats who are soft-to-shit on that, and an entire fucking party whose whole deal is "Let them eat cake" at best. And somehow this is always the democrats fault. Always.
Then why is the supply chain still fucked? Store shelves still look picked over/overpriced and I constantly have to wait for pharmacies to restock basic medications. And don't even get me started on the rollercoaster that is daily gas prices. I don't give two fucks if CEOs are doing well. The people are NOT doing well. Every other day we see some asinine article where some blowhard CEO is complaining about people are "lazy." People aren't lazy, they are apathetic because there's nothing to gain from hard work anymore.
The US has a SERIOUS foreign propaganda issue.
The domestic producers are plenty active too.
And while inflation has come down (prices have stopped climbing), a lot of prices have not (they are still where they climbed up to) nor will they. So people are still facing sticker shock at the grocery store and gas station (keep in mind that until the COVID supply chain inflation hit, we'd spent over a decade with the Fed unable to get inflation up to 2%). Until wages come up enough to counter that sticker shock (they've come up some, but not this much), insisting that the economy is in good shape is going to come across as 'pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining' even to people who don't seek out reactionary disinformation.
100% agree.
Biden is the nominee. Get behind him or watch democracy die.
Look Nero is in charge and sure he is more focused on fiddling and acting deeply upset than he is actually fixing things while in charge but his performance is immaculate
Obviously why would anyone want anything better than performance art in these times of need.
The same reason all the top nominee picks have sucked. I don't want Christian fascists in office either but fuck I'm so tired of pretending Biden is doing anything other than being a log in the road for them than a driving force against the issues at hand.
If you think that Biden didn't do anything in his first term, you're not very well informed.
I think he hid and did little to meet with true average Americans and done stuff that is boringly necessary without a step over that and it's awful that basic necessities are met with praise and even then he didn't highlight how the little steps could be a plan to bettering anything.
So no, I'm not gonna jump at claiming standard presidential actions are impressive less we expect so little from our office holders. And that would be depressing in a way that means the end of any good or useful people in our world.
You have a strange idea of what "standard" is. Some of bills he has signed don't have an equivalence in the last 50 years in importance.
Here is the slimmest majority with 50 senators; two of those are republicans in sheep's clothing. Oh, also you lose house majority 2 years in.
You can't fix an entire system with that? Fuck you Biden.
Voters.
Biden should be raging from the bully pulpit about Congress fucking the American people over. But he isn't, and he helped install the current status quo. Obama got a pass because he wasn't in federal office in the 90's swinging a wrecking ball into the safety net and we could believe he was silently trying to work on things. Biden was and he hasn't repudiated any of the things that actually fuck us peons over. And yet we'll vote for him in 2024 because the GOP is incapable of meeting the basic standard of upholding democratic elections. I've watched the Democrats tell me they're going to fix the basic problems of the economy for 30 years. Only for them to turn around and line the pockets of the rich and tell us that it will somehow help us. Every time they come up with some new plan to help us it's the same two things. Either they hand the money to a rich person who swears they'll distribute it and totally not just buy a new yacht; or it's a once a year tax credit that sounds big because it's a lump sum but in reality comes out to about 150 dollars a month at most.
Like I said, for now the GOP's idiocy is going to hold the line for the Dems but at some point people are just going to stop engaging with the system.
I agree with a lot of things you said. But, you are not judging this term by this term, but by the last 30 years. You have little bit of merit to blame Biden for his past mistakes, but you fail to tell what he could have done differently. The thing that strikes me the most is how you view the democrats of the last 30 years as a singular entity. Democrats are not a monarchy or a cult. We will never figure out how to elect better people with that outlook.
They aren't monolithic, but the outcome is the same none the less. And you're right that we need to elect better people within the party. I refuse to give the party credit for the progressive wing until the outcome changes though.
Even a simple "hey, I know things are rough right now but were working on it" from the White House would be enough for me, but these doublespeak puff-pieces they keep putting out are ridiculous.
Things are better? No the fuck they're not and their inflation calculators purposefully ignore things like groceries, gas, or rent, which have increased nearly 50% in the past 12 months across the country. Just admit shit's fucked but were working on a solution, but, in the words of a old video game reviewer, don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining.
Of course they don't, gas prices
“Inflation is easing”
And the super fake unemployment number is real low.
I'll believe the economics are better when I'm not paying markedly more for everything in my life and my salary increases.
The politicians are so wildly out of touch with the citizens.
This idea that the data is "mistrusted" or "unseen" is ridiculous to the point of incredulity. I don't care what the data says, I know what my lived experiences are and everything is getting wildly more expensive except my labor, it seems. Show me any study you want, it won't change that groceries are 30%+ more expensive, my rent keeps going up, restaurants and bars have gotten nearly 50% or more pricier and my wage hasn't grown to match.
I’ll admit I’m a high income earner. I’ve never had to watch watch what I spend but recently even I’ve noticed increases in everything.
Groceries have doubled from what I paid in 2019. I buy almost the same thing every week and I compared.
Dining out has become much more expensive. Places I used to consider a good value are now expensive.
I ordered a basic meal the other day at a local place. A cheeseburger. Fries. Drink and my friend had a salad. It was almost 59 dollars. Six months ago it was around 30 dollars.
So now I have to watch my spending as everything has increased
Dining out is CRAZY now.
My wife and I were out and about last weekend and needed to eat so we hit a Burger King.
Meals for 2, nothing crazy, was $30... at freaking BURGER KING. We don't even have a sales tax here.
$21 was the bill for 4 people to eat fast food for lunch in my part of the USA today.
Y'all are paying too much for fast food, it's not worth that.
Where y’at?
Bumfuck Ohio
I'm just below the median income for my area. Before the pandemic, I was comfortable. I largely didn't have to worry about expenses, I could dine out a few times a month, cook meat more than once a week, buy a few hobby luxuries every few months. Could air travel for vacation once a year.
I drive a newish economy sedan, live in a decent area with one roommate, didn't have all that much but the 401(k) looked good and I had all I wanted.
Now things are tight. Just the other week, went to a bar that sold a damn good burger for $9 with fries. Could have a beer with it and get out under $20. The damn hamburger is $18 now and the beer doubled in price. I try to buy meat twice a month to eat, but my diet is far more bean and lentil based now. Eggs, while doubly more, are still cheap enough to be a frequent protein. My vacations are all at home now. I've taken to enjoying fishing, which is admittedly great, but I used to fly to Europe or other parts of the US once a year.
I do not know how folks on minimum wage get by here. Without forming a support network of other minimum wage workers to pool for rent and groceries, it has to be an insane struggle.
If this is the "improving economy", I don't want any of it.
I eat out often for work and my company picks up the tab. Part of why I didn’t notice for awhile.
I went to buy eggs and they were like 12 dollars. I could have swore eggs were a lot cheaper in the past.
I eat more hamburgers than I should and that’s where I’ve started to notice the crazy pricing. Like you said you could get a burger and beer for under 20. I use to pay 20 with tip and the tip was over 20%.
I can’t do that anymore.
Man some things have really hit the "I mean, it's one banana, Michael. What could it cost? $10?" levels of ridiculousness price wise.
Since I buy almost the same thing. I don’t pay attention to the cost per item. I just watch the total at the end.
My groceries went from about 80 a week to about 150-180 a week.
I have no clue how the average family is handling this. It’s become so insane even I’ve noticed.
I’m a republican but we need to seriously raise the minimum wage. There is no way anyone can survive on it.
It’s almost 14 here and you can’t survive on that.
Uh, you might wanna consider if being a Republican is more important to you than not living in a country full of homeless starving people is before you cast your next vote.
Most of your fellow Republicans believe deep down in the abolishment of the minimum wage, and are adamantly against ever raising it again.
Me and a partner got fish and chips at a bar yesterday, one app, no drinks, cost us fucking $80. Good fish and chips but like not that good... When I first moved here I was making enough to eat out basically every day and not notice it. I've gotten two raises since then but everything is going up in cost so much if I go out twice a week I'm straining my bank account. I'm used to being poor this job was a complete game changer for me but I'm already noticing I'm starting to pick up habits again from when I was making like 1/3 as much as I do now.
Visiting Europe and prices are so freaking cheap for everything it feels like I’m in a different decade.
Someone was telling me they bought 3 carrots for SIX FUCKING PENCE in the UK when they visited a few months ago.
America is so fucked, I don't care what the office of the president says
I spent $500 at Costco last weekend this shit is out of control.
That’s why I avoid Costco. I always spend to much there.
What country? Cause those prices seem ridiculously high for the US, unless those are fine dining prices these days
United States Oregon and Illinois.
And no, not fine dining by any means.
From their username, looks like Oregon in the US.
The economy is doing better precisely because regular people’s lives are harder. A “strong” economy means more and more off the backs of everyday laborers. Not to mention intentional raising of unemployment rates to combat inflation. The system is fucked. There’s nothing in it for me and you.
Exactly this. Companies do better when they can exploit their workers for as much value as possible. That’s what a “good economy” looks like and it is the duty of every living human to hurt it.
Yeah, I see the data every Sunday I go to the grocery store and it sure as fuck isn't making things better.
I can see all my grocery store receipts in my app up to two years ago.
Many things have gotten a lot more expensive, but some things haven't. I would put it at 20%, not 30+%.
Also, my mortgage didn't go up. Renters are getting screwed, that's for sure.
Finally, my wage definitely went up. Although many people did not have had their wages go up and they are getting screwed too
So I'm doing much better than two years ago.
The economy isn't bad for everyone.
But for many people, it's definitely bad.
To say that the numbers are wrong is a stretch though. The numbers just reflect averages.
I too have largely been doing better since the pandemic than before it. But I also bought a condo during the extremely brief price dip in early 2020.
I think a lot of it is living costs. If you were able to lock in a mortgage with low interest rates, and don't have to rent or look for a place to live right now, then you're probably doing a lot better than others and then the President's analysis may make actual sense.
On the other hand, I've gotten a couple raises but it hasn't felt like it. They've basically equaled out to inflation.
Same here, still doing fine in my low cost of living area. Not all of the USA is as bad as some of these reports.
This is called “propaganda” say it with me “prop-a-Ganda”
That is because Americans are not seeing the benefits. CEOs and stock holders are.
Imagine a world where stock grants were a standard part of all employment contracts, not just for tech workers and the like.
Stock grants for tech workers are often not worth much unless they get in super early and they get lucky.
I got more from my accrued vacation time than I got from my stock options at the last three jobs I left.
Stock grants (e.g. RSUs), not options. Options often become worthless.
Indeed. For the last 3 years the economy has been cooking and stocks rising yet my pay can’t even keep up with inflation.
Hard to believe it when strong economy doesn't translate to food on the plate.
Tax the rich
Hey, stock market number and GDP go up. So that means we're all doing better somehow. Right? RIGHT!?!?!!?!!
If everyone says they feel like the economy is bad, but the metrics say the economy is good, maybe the metrics are wrong or measuring the wrong things!
Possible; it's also possible they're believing lies being told to them by people who benefit from others having false beliefs.
Information asymmetry often works to the benefit of employers and landlords, for example. If workers and tenants do have lots of options, but don't believe they do, they're more likely to settle for shitty jobs and housing.
There's a common lie told by upper managers in a lot of industries: "Our business is perpetually in danger; so we can't afford to pay you more because then we will go out of business and you'll all lose your jobs anyway."
If workers and tenants are settling for shitty jobs and housing, the economy is bad. It doesn't matter if they technically have lots of options because the economy is structured to make them feel like they don't.
Capitalism working as intended 👍
Firing them into the sun would be extremely expensive. It's cheaper to just send them into deep space.
OceanGate had the right idea.
Crushing billionaires in the depths of the ocean is actually a good way to get their carbon back into long-term storage
Good point. Make gravity work for us rather than against us.
It's even cheaper to let them build submersibles.
The weird thing is, these information asymmetries make capitalism less efficient than it would be with less asymmetry. They don't serve the interests of capital; they serve the interests of management.
We’ve stopped being capitalist a long time ago. Now we have corporate feudalism. We prop up old companies, tamp down on startups, and do our best to make sure companies make most of their money from rent seeking.
(pst that's just capitalism)
Marx characterized this as "anarchy of production" - without centralize control, the whims of the market inevitably undermine economic growth. It's what causes the boom and bust cycles.
I think Marx also underestimated the class interest of the managerial class, which shows up rather vividly in actually-existing socialisms as well. Principal/agent problems are a doozy.
This. Wallstreet is doing great. The average US citizen not so much. But politicians really only care that CEOs are still getting their bonus checks, not that minimum wage workers are having to work multiple jobs to just barely scrape by. We need to reevaluate the metrics we use to drive policy decisions because they're rewarding the people that need it the least.
GDP was invented during the great depression. The rich have figured out how to game the metric: wealth inequality. You can give more and more to an ever narrowing slice of the country and "average GDP" can still be going up...despite the fact that much of that went to Elon Musk so he can buy another PJ or whatever.
Does the definition of "economy" actually include people or are we just looking at corporation numbers because I can believe THAT economy is going strong but there's no way I believe that the entire economy is doing just fine. You don't need to look further than the grocery store prices to see that.
Or housing prices compared to local wages
Nothing, not even basic necessities like food, is even remotely affordable anymore, let along a roof over your head. Yet they still want us to work to the bone like slaves and have babies while somehow not having a place to live. Biden has passed some great legislation but the economy is nowhere near ok for anyone except the 1%.
Takes time to turn the ship around after only a single term of conservative rule. It's the same in every country. The right ruins the economy and then the left have to fix it while the right spends all it's time in opposition blaming the left for the mess they themselves caused (while trying to sabotage any reform).
Dude, the economy wasn't doing great under Obama either. He did the same thing, pointed at employment numbers and GDP while people were struggling. More than half the homeless people in my area report they did not come from another city. They had been slowly sliding out of being able to afford housing for the last decade. Even while working full time.
Obama who came in as the 2008 recession was in full swing? You're just proving his point.
And bailed out the guys who made the situation. One guy was charged when the criminal financial conduct was widespread and common knowledge.
That however isn't the point. The point is there was a benefit of doubt for Obama because he wasn't in office for decades beforehand. Biden was and is trying to run the country like it's 1980 still.
What do you mean by that?
People know when their lives are getting better or worse. You can explain to them all you want about per-capita GDP, adjusted vs raw unemployment, whatever other jargon-crusted, hyperabstract measurement you care to explain, but people know the world they're living in. They know whether they're struggling to get ahead, struggling to stay even or struggling to slow the rate at which they fall behind.
Unemployment numbers don't mean a damn thing when wages aren't enough to live on. The profit has spoken and it says that the working class can starve outside for all it cares.
I hate both sides. How's the economy doing good when my wife and I work 40+ hours a week, both have college degrees, and can barely afford a 2 bedroom rental apartment in a shit part of the country let alone ever think about owning a house?? Btw second bedrooms for our son.
Economy's doing good for the wealthy.
Meanwhile the rest of us gotta make due with weakened spending power and income, COVID era social benefits being rolled back, etc etc
It’s not even doing good for the wealthy. Lots of corporate bankruptcies are occurring right now. Any business operating off cheap debt is getting fucking railed. It could be worse but it’s not like they aren’t taking losses right now. Some of them are fucked.
Look at this privileged asshole who thinks his son should have his own room.
You wanna hear something really fucked? Every state has a standard of rooms per child at X age. Basically you can only stick two boys or two girls in a bedroom once they're teenagers. Some states work with the parents and some states (it's the red ones) charge the parents with child neglect for not meeting this standard. So as this standard becomes completely unattainable what do you think the party of no abortions is going to do? Change the standard, or leverage it to break up minority families?
Yeah, I had to sleep in the living room while my sisters slept in my parents bedroom.
Nothing indicates a stronger economy than roaring inflation, high as fuck interest rates, tons of corporate bankruptcies, and bank failures.
What a fucking joke. This timeline sucks.
"The Economy" is the state of the ruling class's bank account. It has nothing to do with whether the working class can afford housing or food. /S
Except not /s
The US has better inflation figures than most other developed countries, wtf are you talking about?
Yes, mild inflation (2-10%) is a sign of a strong economy. Personally, I think the Fed target of 2% is too low nad it should be at 4% to benefit the working class more. Would you like to know more?
No just send me to the damn bug planet thanks
Prove it, no appeals to consensus or theory
Ok, you're right. It depends on an individualcs defination of a strong economy. Generally, in a stable nation, a economic depression is accompanied by deflation. I can trot out FRED graphs that agree with me, but graphs are funny like the pirates vs global warming joke.
All that said, generally, in a stable nation, when alot of working folks are losing their jobs inflations slows hard or we hit a lil deflation.
A strong advancing economy means goods/services are easier to come by/afford (more advanced tech/infra), which for a currency with the same supply would mean decreasing prices, i.e. "deflation".
No. Is this a bad LLM bot?
Try thinking for a minute about the actual fundamentals. Same number of people, same amount of money, same amount of time put in, more goods produced, goods cost less.
People treat economics like a frigging religion, IDK how people end up believing the opposite of something so basic as that. And then to actually get that arrogant over it, saying I sound like a bad LLM bot. That's just rude.
Because, for a lot of people, the economy isn't improving.
Say you were on the verge of buying a house, interest rates have doubled, are at a 22 year high, and now you're priced out of the market.
Or, say you're like me and bought a house in 2021 with a 3.25% interest rate. You're locked in. You can't sell your house, a) because nobody could afford the 7% it's going to take to buy it and b) you likely can't afford the 7% it will likely take to buy a new house.
Refinancing isn't an option because who wants a higher rate. Ditto for a 2nd mortgage.
And this doesn't even get into rising food and fuel costs.
I don’t know how people are surprised by the current interest rates or market… when lockdowns happened my wife and I had bought our house a year prior and I immediately told her since we both had high paying and safe jobs we should remodel everything we wanted and buy three cars since I figured interest rates would get jacked up and supply economics indicated people were going to stop doing renovation work using contractors for a minute before supplies would get expensive.
These are all market reactions. It’s a rubber band of effects that happened because of the pandemic and the shock to the economy. Capitalism requires constant feeding so when the world stopped it for even a month it did major damage and when it went on longer in key areas it basically collapsed those sectors. It’s gonna be a while before things get better, but honestly this recovery is better than I expected.
Sounds like capitalism is the problem. Boom and bust cycles are terrible for working people and great for billionaires.
100% it’s why I mentioned Capitalism requiring feeding. It’s like when people say “I can’t wait for the next housing collapse so I can afford a home.” While forgetting the part of housing collapsed where the average worker can’t afford a house and often all that happens is the millionaire and billionaire class swoops in and buys up all the property. 08 wasn’t famous for making more average Americans able to afford a house. It made it so companies like Blackstone could go around and feast for cheap.
Facts
That isn't a reflection of the strength of the economy. That's just capitalism. Republicans are even further from being able to fix that. They somehow think getting rid of taxes and benefits will somehow fix that. Sure you can get some deflation if you increase the amount of debt of the populace, but that's not an actual fix.
Our economy's health is not directly related to the average person's buying power. One can argue that it's actually inversely proportional.
If that's the case then a weak economy is what we should be aiming for
Or just fix the problem and stop letting capitalism run rampant without regulations and start taxing the corporations and wealthy individuals who's own profits are responsible for a majority of inflation.
No I totally trust the people telling us the economy is strong despite everything I see around me. If the economy doesn't work for the people then it doesn't matter what GDP or any of the other big stats are doing.
I generally like Biden, but that's a crock of shit. Anytime news outlets claim that the "economy is strong", they're almost always talking about how it is for the investor and owner classes, not for the working class. This economy is absolute dogshit for the proles, how the hell is anybody supposed to survive under these conditions? I make OK money and I'm barely scraping by, I don't know how the fuck anybody else is still hanging on. Housing and the price of consumer goods needs to seriously come the fuck back down to Earth, it's squeezing people dry. I kind of wish people in apartment complexes would just start banding together and burn their rental offices down and just refuse to pay rents anymore, because whoever decides what "market rates" are for renting apartments are some of the greediest motherfuckers on the planet.
Rental prices are sickeningly high right now it's insane. I was excited to see that lawsuit against that rental price fixing company RealPage but it doesn't seem to have gone anywhere, frustratingly. If all the rental agencies are using the same automated tool to set their rental prices obviously it's going to artifically inflate them all.
Right?! That's a much bigger deal and one that absolutely needs a rush on taking care of but no one wants to change anything that makes a rich person somewhere money. They would rather slowly hang millions of the lower and middle classes than piss of a handful of rich people.
The economy matter less to the individual when wage growth has stagnated and most Americans are living pay check to pay check. The economy is healthy for the millionaire class, not the every day American.
Isn't that a feature of capitalism though, if people are forced to work 2-3 jobs at 60-70 hr/wk to cover bills, you have way more wealth generation per capita than if they were only working 32 hr/wk. The more you exploit your labor, the more your economy is booming.
I think the economy should never be a standard of measure.
I think people rightly don't believe it because it's apparent that the economic machine in the United States is not built for the benefit of the average worker, it's built for the benefit of the capitalist class that's captured the government. Republicans may be more up front about upholding the status quo, but there are plenty of corporate Democrats that will support the same status quo while chasing the social capital that comes with agitating for change that more progressive groups are pushing for.
People don't have faith when they're constantly sacrificed at the altar of "the economy" without seeing any of the benefits of an improving economy. For a good example, look at how the BNSF rail strikes were resolved before Christmas last year. Rail workers were striking for very reasonable things like 7 days of sick leave per year (up from literally 0, per the contract they had with BNSF) and appropriate staffing to prevent emergencies (like what happened in East Palestine, Ohio in early 2023), and what did Biden do? Biden, the guy who campaigned as one of the most pro-labor and pro-union presidents in recent history, stabbed them in the fucking back and made it illegal to strike because an unstable supply chain around Christmas spelled "economic catastrophe". Biden would rather go to bat for a large corporation than for the workers that corporation is shamelessly exploiting.
The pandemic is another great example. "Essential workers" were expected to risk their lives and those of their loved ones while business owners got huge loans they never had to pay back. Working folks meanwhile got a couple grand for the entire year and even then folks say it was too much.
I've never seen such a naked upwards redistribution of money in my life. At one point, the Fed gave itself the power to literally buy shares of funds itself to inflate the price.
Now since the free money has dried up with rising interest rates (which had to happen because the poors were finally seeing an opportunity to get a mortgage with low rates and that caused all of the inflation don't you know) businesses are raising rates on everything ever to sustain their profits.
Except the term "essential workers" became a hollow statement when it became obvious that it wasn't referring to "essential" to society, but essential to the economy.
Nurses and firefighters, hell yeah, but also bartenders? Oh, but definitely not restaurant servers. Oh yeah, but we gotta keep those Walmart baggers on the Frontline, can't risk cutting into the Walton's fortune.
Fucking clown world, I swear
An economy "going strong" for only those at the top isn't going strong at all.
But you see, stocks and GDP are up. So you're doing better. Walmarts profits are up 50% YOY. Ignore the fact they just decided to cut starting pay in spite of that.
Yes. Surely that will translate into savings for me at Wal-Mart, because costs under capitalism go up and down.
To be fair costs do go down...
When two parties of equal power are negotiating. Yeah they always forget to mention that part. I wonder why?
The stock market isn’t the economy… jic that’s what this article is referring to.
Uses a stupid fucking definition of unemployment, then tosses out a biased ass line disparaging peoples distrust of media.
How is the economy booming when Arizona Iced Tea is $1.29?
It's still 99 cents at the grocery stores (here in Texas) but at a major convenience store chain, they actually have Arizona cans printed 1.59! Like....WTF!
They have it in the drink station at a local gas station near my work. 33oz cup for $0.83.. I've had to control myself on the number of visits since that discovery. Oh yeah, not just the green tea with honey. They also have Arnold Palmer and Mucho Mango.
The amount of liquor I used to mix with the mango would've made this both a problem and solution for younger me.
At winco in Arizona these are 89 cents somehow, love employee owned grocery
The cost of literally everything is outpacing my income like Usain Bolt racing a sleep deprived tortoise.
"the economy" doesn't mean shit if it doesn't translate to the fruits of our own labor.
Usain Bolt would never let his tortoises get sleep deprived.
But other than that yeah the economy's down the shitter
Well, yes. If you are a high-income earner or if you make most of your money from rents or investments ... the 'economy' is strong. For the rest of us - we have to make choices between healthcare and food.
The stock market isn't the economy regardless of what they try to convince us of.
When so many people can't afford to buy food, let alone homes while being fully employed - the economy isn't working.
That depends on your perspective. If you're rich and getting richer, the economy is working. If you're anyone else, the economy isn't working. Your problem isn't that the economy isn't working, your problem is that you're not rich. Just pull yourself up by your bootstraps like the rich people did when they inherited millions to billions from their parents. It's not that hard.
While I'll add a /s to acknowledge the end of the posh tone I took, that really is the situation we're in.
Yes we need our media to focus on real economic measures that are closer to our lives. Consumer price index. Average gallon of gas. Wage growth. Housing costs.
This BS “unemployment” number is worthless and everyone knows it but they keep reporting it!
tell me what the housing and rent inflation rate has been since 2010. We all know the economy is fucked. A lot of this bullshit did happen during trump's artificially low interest rates.
Meanwhile, gas prices are driving up the cost of everything. again.
Lol America's prices are cheap as fuck
5.60 a gallon (1.51 per liter) where I am. Not anywhere near cheap for a country that demands you use a car to commute.
maybe that's part of the issue
It's absolutely part of the issue. We have the economic data that strong walking and mass transit cities helps local economies. But alas rich people find it hard(er) to make money on those concepts. They might have to forego the 3rd Yacht.
It's half of the price it should be.
I'm sure if you offered to pay double, they would accept. Put your money where your mouth is
Compared to where and what? It means nothing if you say a statement that broad.
Maybe it's a sign we need less dependency on oil...
That's because the average American doesn't benefit from a "strong economy".
Yeah. Record breaking costs and record breaking profit margins as far as the eye can see. Fuck off with this bullshit.
The economy is doing great but that doesn't mean shit for the working class, as intended.
You are of course correct, but it also has to do with russian and chinese propaganda trying to weaken the Biden admin.
This is why I am against states in general. While they play "hero", the working class is getting fucked over. I'd like to add, US Conservatives are also doing their best to undermine the Biden Admin.
The economy is improving for the rich corporate executives boasting about record-breaking revenue every quarter. For everyone else, prices are going up and their wages are not changing. Fuck the rich.
Of course they don't believe it!
Democrats do a shit job at celebrating their victories and communicating with average Joes.
Also this asinine "liberal guilt" prevents anyone from the Left to ever enjoy anything for fear that there might be one person out there who isn't doing so well and it would hUrTiNg tHeIr fEeLiNgS. It is absolutely exhausting dealing with these people who don't want to accept that unemployment is at an incredibly low number, interest rates are still at historic lows, wage growth is at 40 year record, inflation is dropping, and the economy is indeed booming. Times are indeed good, regardless of what the vocal naysayers tell people.
Then mix in an endless stream of foreign agent trolls who are purposefully trying to spread misinformation before the election. Whether they are Russian agents or right-wing conservatives masquerading as progressives, they are trying to bring people down because apathy is one of the best tools that Republicans have to keep people home on election day. Low voter turn-out usually helps the GOP.
Put all that together and it isn't surprising that Americans don't believe that the economy is strong.
How does any of this lower my grocery bill? Or gas or rent or daycare? I just found out it will cost nearly $25,000 a year for my family's health insurance. How am I supposed to feel good about the economy when I hear that?
You're supposed to feel good about the health insurance profits which the ACA was supposed to be a major victory against but record-breaking profits continued anyway. Truly an economic triumph story.
Motherfucker I voted for Biden and I think he's done a shit job. You'll seriously cry wolf about "foreign agent trolls" rather than accept that plenty of people have been disappointed with him? If this is the best that the DNC can do for their supporters, then they deserve whatever the MAGA fascists have planned for them.
Cry more about how you're so exhausted having to deal with people who's reality isn't as privileged as yours.
I don't give a shit about "ThE eConOmY", I care about how ordinary people are affected. I don't know about all of you, but I'm still in an ever worsening situation. Biden has made little to no difference for me.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law
"The economy" is supposed to represent how ordinary people are doing, but now it's just targets and figures.
Also doesn't help that wealth inequality just keeps compounding...
Whenever I read the term “the economy” my brain substitutes the words “rich people’s yacht money” because I’ve never been affected by it one way or the other.
Good for them and their yachts though.
You have definitely been affected one way
Ya know, a 20% raise against inflation over the past 10 years would help.
Barely. Try 5 years.
So, 30%?
Currently striking United Auto Workers have asked for 40% over ten years.
This is all simplly caused by our refusal to build housing for the last 50 years. Almost all the pain is because of housing costs.
New housing is built all the time, just not in a places that are in demand where everyone wants to live at.
You mean you don't want to live in a 500k townhouse that is directly off the highway and has no walkability, sidewalks, or public transportation? Smh
Thank you, invisible hand
Developers want to build anywhere and everywhere people would rent or buy, only thing holding em back is state zoning, licensing/permits, and far off in the distance (i.e. not right now), an actual lack of demand for housing.
Yes, of course. The real estate market is behaving in a way that is highly consistent with economic theory. It's so straightforward that just about any policy analyst from anywhere on the political spectrum could come up with the same exact list of problems. I think we can all appreciate that developers are merely trying to operate a business and that they owe it to themselves and their workers to operate sustainably and only take reasonable profit/risk tradeoffs.
Unfortunately, an appreciation for the underlying theory does not satisfy. Every day I walk one of the most unequal cities in America (Atlanta, GA) and am pained to see homeless bodies huddled against buildings made of solid granite. Just imagine if I tried explaining the economic realities of the housing market to the disabled veteran panhandling at my local MARTA station. Imagine his face as I tell him to please try moving to a suburb or maybe just be patient and wait things out for a few decades while we wait for the real estate market to respond to demand forces. He cannot wait. Exposure will eventually kill him.
I want my city to do what only governments can do and respond to the problem immediately at whatever cost necessary. I want public housing built ASAP because a heartbreaking number of local people are going to die if action is delayed. It is not humane to turn a blind eye while we go and chase the white whale of an economically ideal market solution.
You're welcome, visible comment maker.
There's a shitload of """luxury apartment""" housing going up by me. And most houses on the market are getting snatched up over asking price in no time flat.
Seems like 50% of Americans still believe Trump is going to make America great at the next election...
The economy overall might be fine, but the average person can still not be.
People don't care much about data and facts on unemployment and GDP when ultimately their personal situation is what matters. Things are more expensive and wages for a lot of people haven't kept up. Already have too many people think that no/less inflation means prices go down, when actually that just means prices stay the same or go up slower. Deflation is off the table cause that can be even worse.
Sadly, there isn't much that can be done beyond sticking to higher interest rates and letting the market adapt and catch up.
Not much the president can do either, especially with this congress. Even if it wasn't, the changes and effects would likely take years to even reach fruition. Let alone have a significant impact for most people if all goes according to plan.
We have seen this scenario play out before.
Exactly. Articles like this are meaningless and only serve to boost his genuine fanbase.
They're not meaningless... they're ruling class propaganda telling us to feel fine with this
I wouldn't say it means to be fine with this. I think it's to stop people from switching away from Democrats to GOP because the Republicans only way to reach swing votes is to convince them they can do better with the economy. They're not going to win them over with their "anti-woke" agenda and oppressing various minorities. This is a Republican economy though. Not saying it's their fault, but it is the economy they aim for.
I'm not sure that this is the case but I'm not an expert. A recent opinion pieces by Krugman showed survey data that indicated that most people reported doing ok, while also saying the economy was not. Some of this might be related to individuals doing ok but being worried about the prevalence of folks struggling.
Article: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/opinion/economy-inflation-negativity.html
One key point is that at the end of 2022, 73% of respondents said that they were doing at least ok financially. So almost three quarters of households aren't significantly struggling, and yet a majority of people also say the economy isn't doing well, even when they are.
Now, many people are struggling, but many people are always struggling. The question is why is the proportion of people with a negative sentiment towards the economy out of whack with the number of people reporting doing ok financially.
I dunno; Krugman makes some guesses and the article is a quick read. If you hit a paywall let me know and I'll make a gift link.
Edit: I’m OK, but Things Are Terrible
Because people want to be doing better than just okay and they want nobody to be struggling. Especially when there's a few people who are making several orders of magnitude more than those who are "doing okay."
Gift article: I’m OK, but Things Are Terrible
That's likely true, but is also always likely true. The question is why are the proportion of responses on individual household stability different than prior years with similar economic measures. It's something affecting perceptions, or are we missing a measure of the economy? Some l since the study is a long ongoing one done by the fed, and it is 73% doing at least ok, it seems like there is some interesting questions to form for further follow-up.
A couple things might have changed. First, the shared experience of the pandemic may have increased the average level of empathy - outside of some nutjobs. If you're doing okay but you care about the people around you struggling you won't think the economy is doing well.
Second, income inequality is now higher than at any time in history. Many Americans would probably put "fairness" as part of the criteria for how they judge the economy. While it's nice that your wages are keeping up with inflation, your boss's boss's boss's boss's boss got a seven-figure bonus on top of his eight-figure salary and nine-figure-plus net worth.
And while this will definitely raise the median and mean incomes nationally, people won't feel like things are improving, leading to data that makes economists shrug.
Then again, until recently economists had to create an entirely new species of hominid to explain their theories so I don't trust them to have a good idea of how normal people think.
I tend to agree in that I think much of the perception discrepancy is based on the belief that a greater proportion of the country is suffering, or that the suffering happening is preventable. To your point, inequity shapes people's perception and it's hard not to feel like big companies and execs are screwing people for a few extra percentage points. The general feeling that people are suffering and it is particularly avoidable compared to the (perception) in the past could explain negative attitudes towards the economy and inflation.
Thanks for the great conversation!
You too! The fediverse is just so friendly :)
Paywall.
But that is very weird if people think they are fine, but somehow others aren't and the economy isn't. At least enough to say that.
Gift article: I’m OK, but Things Are Terrible
Yeah, the survey responses seem out of whack compared to historical data. It's odd, and worth thinking about.
Interesting option from the article.
So, it might be more "everything is falling apart or not the same" type of thinking. Could explain it and wouldn't surprise me.
Everything does seem different after COVID at least. Things don't feel the same even years after.
Seeing a Paywall. But that being said, does the article quantify how they are doing financially, or is it a self report on whether they think they are "OK" or not? If so, then are they actually financially OK, or is this a case of "I could be homeless, but I'm currently not, so I'm ok"? If so, there is definitely room for bias in that number. I live in a relatively low col area and cost for everything are up to levels that would definitely mess with those making under 45-50k a year.
Gift article: I’m OK, but Things Are Terrible
If recommend looking at the article since it looks to the survey details. The survey I mentioned was specifically polling household's and 73% said that their household was doing at least ok. This is a long running study done regularly by the fed, and the proportion of responses doesn't fit with historical trends. So either something is missing on how we measure perceptions or how we measure the economy. Both lead to interesting questions.
The problem is even if inflation should be letting up retailers are continuing to raise prices without cause just to bolster record profits. Looking at you Kroger.
And literally every other large company. It's more greedflation at this point.
If the Dems try to run on status quo they will lose just like when Hillary did the same thing.
I dunno, Joe "Nothing will fundamentally change" Biden did OK.
He just did better than Trump. The amount of support Trump still has is ridiculous meaning it's more fervent than before. The reason Trump won originally could be why he wins again (if he makes it through primaries and doesn't get convicted). I don't think Biden can rest on his laurels for the upcoming election. Folks aren't happy and enough of them are either disinterested entirely and won't vote or mistakenly believe Republicans will fix it.
I am going to be so mad if the DNC decides to bunt on this next election and lets Trump actually win (I'm just going to assume we're still on the worst possible timeline and Trump won't be convicted). In a perfect world the DNC would find an actually good candidate in their couch cushions or something and run them, but since what we have is Biden, at least I don't know, pretend to give a shit about anything. Even if we all know it's bullshit at least promise to fix some stuff. I'm so tired of the Democrats running on campaigns that amount to "We're only 10% evil, so vote for us", while the Republicans campaign on "Vote for us and we'll do our best to legalize everything terrible about the 19th century, but if you're rich white and male, you'll probably be fine".
I'm less concerned about '24 than I am a '28 "Her Turn" Harris candidate. She hasn't been good or effective as VP and running her in '28 guarantees a Republican win.
The bar unfortunately was in the basement
Only because he was running against Donald "My entire tenure was a series of increasingly out of control trash fires" Trump. The DNC can't rely on the GOP always running literally the worst possible person. I mean, history seems to show they keep somehow finding a candidate that's even worse than the last guy, but still.
The day both the DNC and GOP run candidates that are actually you know, decent human beings that I'd actually want in charge of anything let alone the country I will be utterly shocked. It's never happened in my lifetime, and I somehow suspect it never will. But man, that sure would be awesome if it happened.
Joe, "If you pay more in taxes nothing will fundamentally change," to a room full of rich assholes Biden, yes.
It's too bad hat quote gets brought up as an anti-Biden thing when it was one of the somewhat cool things he said.
I think the reason is "nothing will fundamentally change" is a pretty accurate description of moderate Democrats, but that particular statement was actually progressive-ish rhetoric. His idea of higher taxes (or more accurately what you'll be taxing) isn't going to match progressives, but they're both sold as "rich people paying their fair share" not ripping their ill-gotten gains away from them.
When will legacy media start telling it like it is? The general public has said for decades that the metrics that determine what a “good economy” is doesn’t tell the reality of the average American.
Well, the media has worked very very hard to paint Biden in the worst possible light and not give him credit for anything other than putting on his pants each morning, so its no wonder people feel that way.
The fact is that our economy is booming. We will need to adjust out GDP upward before the end of the year if the strikes don't hurt. Virtually every country in the rest of the world has huge economic problems compared to the US.
On the other hand, when wage growth continually fails to even come close to inflation, the rah rah economy gaslighting falls a bit flat.
The US inflation rate is 3.7 Britain 6.8 Germany 6.1 France 4.9
Home prices and rent are crazy high, though. Plus student loans are coming back, no wonder everyone feels poor, unless you already managed to buy a home with low interest rates. So things are great for those people, I'm sure.
In other words, we're screwed and everyone else is double-screwed.
3.7 isn't too bad. Not great, below 3 would be good. But, as long as the rest of the world suffers we will too. Our main trade partners, Canada and Mexico, are doing all right so the chances are we won't slip into a recession. This is especially true because the US GDP is so good. This is a problem that COVID left the world.
It wasn't the media that convinced me that my rent went up last year, or that housing prices are going up, or that gas prices are higher, or when I purchase literally anything it is high than before, or that my employer can't sell anything but the most expensive stuff abroad, or that my health insurance premiums are up, or my stream services bill went up, or that my big raise last year has vanished, or that I couldnt find a job if I lost mine in a resonable amount of time....
I don't give a shit that some asshole who inherited 10 houses is sitting pretty, or that the stock market hits higher and higher due to buybacks/consolidations/inflation. I care about the stuff I deal with daily. In the real freaken world I am in big trouble if I lose my job and my money buys less and less.
Show me a single thing Biden has done that brings a real world bill down.
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/what-you-need-to-know-about-inflation-and-the-inflation-reduction-act/
Republicans refuse to believe their politicians ever do anything wrong
Democrats refuse to believe their politicians ever do anything right
And generalizers continue to inflate a problems size.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
But two-thirds of Americans are unhappy about the economy despite consistent reports that inflation is easing and unemployment is close to a 50-year low.
But Harris’s data also shows that fears are widespread – and reinforced by disbelief of or ignorance about official figures and a mistrust of the media’s reporting of them.
The results paint a difficult picture for Joe Biden, who is making “Bidenomics” – his economic policy record – a central plank of his re-election platform.
Biden supporters have just launched a $13m advertising campaign extolling the president’s economic achievements, which include a landmark $1.2tn infrastructure and climate bill, massive investment in domestic microchips production and green energy solutions.
The widest measure of economic growth – gross domestic product – increased at a 2.1% annualized rate last quarter and has been steadily improving since the Covid downturn.
Americans either view the economy through their politics or aren’t feeling it in real life, or both,” said John Gerzema, the CEO of Harris Poll.
The original article contains 761 words, the summary contains 165 words. Saved 78%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
If unemployment could go into the negatives because everybody has to take a second job just to stay afloat, some dumbass economist would still come out and say how strong the economy is.
The economy is strong for the owner and investor class right now. Not so much for anybody at roughly middle class or lower.
Sure…thats why the major automakers workers are striking, because its so wonderful under biden. And gas is over $5 a gallon
Biden has very little to do with that. Those are the executives and shareholders of those automakers. Dems have tried to increase benefits for employees. It's mostly a no-go at the federal level.
The fact that Biden can't fix things is not a good look for Biden, it's a bad look for electoralism.
And why is that? Well, because there are a few democrats who are soft-to-shit on that, and an entire fucking party whose whole deal is "Let them eat cake" at best. And somehow this is always the democrats fault. Always.
Then why is the supply chain still fucked? Store shelves still look picked over/overpriced and I constantly have to wait for pharmacies to restock basic medications. And don't even get me started on the rollercoaster that is daily gas prices. I don't give two fucks if CEOs are doing well. The people are NOT doing well. Every other day we see some asinine article where some blowhard CEO is complaining about people are "lazy." People aren't lazy, they are apathetic because there's nothing to gain from hard work anymore.
The US has a SERIOUS foreign propaganda issue.
The domestic producers are plenty active too.
And while inflation has come down (prices have stopped climbing), a lot of prices have not (they are still where they climbed up to) nor will they. So people are still facing sticker shock at the grocery store and gas station (keep in mind that until the COVID supply chain inflation hit, we'd spent over a decade with the Fed unable to get inflation up to 2%). Until wages come up enough to counter that sticker shock (they've come up some, but not this much), insisting that the economy is in good shape is going to come across as 'pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining' even to people who don't seek out reactionary disinformation.
100% agree.
Biden is the nominee. Get behind him or watch democracy die.
The same reason all the top nominee picks have sucked. I don't want Christian fascists in office either but fuck I'm so tired of pretending Biden is doing anything other than being a log in the road for them than a driving force against the issues at hand.
If you think that Biden didn't do anything in his first term, you're not very well informed.
I think he hid and did little to meet with true average Americans and done stuff that is boringly necessary without a step over that and it's awful that basic necessities are met with praise and even then he didn't highlight how the little steps could be a plan to bettering anything.
So no, I'm not gonna jump at claiming standard presidential actions are impressive less we expect so little from our office holders. And that would be depressing in a way that means the end of any good or useful people in our world.
You have a strange idea of what "standard" is. Some of bills he has signed don't have an equivalence in the last 50 years in importance.
Here is the slimmest majority with 50 senators; two of those are republicans in sheep's clothing. Oh, also you lose house majority 2 years in.
You can't fix an entire system with that? Fuck you Biden.
Biden should be raging from the bully pulpit about Congress fucking the American people over. But he isn't, and he helped install the current status quo. Obama got a pass because he wasn't in federal office in the 90's swinging a wrecking ball into the safety net and we could believe he was silently trying to work on things. Biden was and he hasn't repudiated any of the things that actually fuck us peons over. And yet we'll vote for him in 2024 because the GOP is incapable of meeting the basic standard of upholding democratic elections. I've watched the Democrats tell me they're going to fix the basic problems of the economy for 30 years. Only for them to turn around and line the pockets of the rich and tell us that it will somehow help us. Every time they come up with some new plan to help us it's the same two things. Either they hand the money to a rich person who swears they'll distribute it and totally not just buy a new yacht; or it's a once a year tax credit that sounds big because it's a lump sum but in reality comes out to about 150 dollars a month at most.
Like I said, for now the GOP's idiocy is going to hold the line for the Dems but at some point people are just going to stop engaging with the system.
I agree with a lot of things you said. But, you are not judging this term by this term, but by the last 30 years. You have little bit of merit to blame Biden for his past mistakes, but you fail to tell what he could have done differently. The thing that strikes me the most is how you view the democrats of the last 30 years as a singular entity. Democrats are not a monarchy or a cult. We will never figure out how to elect better people with that outlook.
They aren't monolithic, but the outcome is the same none the less. And you're right that we need to elect better people within the party. I refuse to give the party credit for the progressive wing until the outcome changes though.
Even a simple "hey, I know things are rough right now but were working on it" from the White House would be enough for me, but these doublespeak puff-pieces they keep putting out are ridiculous.
Things are better? No the fuck they're not and their inflation calculators purposefully ignore things like groceries, gas, or rent, which have increased nearly 50% in the past 12 months across the country. Just admit shit's fucked but were working on a solution, but, in the words of a old video game reviewer, don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining.
Of course they don't, gas prices
“Inflation is easing”
And the super fake unemployment number is real low.
Gee I’m thrilled.