Bernie Sanders blasts Democratic Party following Harris loss
“It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them,” Sanders said.
“First, it was the white working class, and now it is Latino and Black workers as well. While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change. And they’re right.”
“Will the big money interests and well-paid consultants who control the Democratic Party learn any real lessons from this disastrous campaign?” Sanders asked.
“Will they understand the pain and political alienation that tens of millions of Americans are experiencing? Do they have any ideas as to how we can take on the increasingly powerful Oligarchy which has so much economic and political power? Probably not.”
Jesus Christ still more sharp than Trump or Biden. We got fuckin robbed, man.
Twice too.
Thrice you might say, considering we could have had a primary this time too but for Biden's hubris
I'm not sure he would have ran again even if Biden stepped down in the most graceful way possible to be honest. The second time he ran I remember him saying a large part of why he did was because people kept telling him how much they felt the country needed him, while he himself was having doubts on his ability to fill the office in his age, or weighing the amount of stress it would bring, and even looking at his vote totals and wondering if the country even wanted him as president. He's gotta be tired, and my take on Sanders these past 8 years is if Trump didn't exist he'd have been a happily retired grandpa, and he's just trying to do whatever he thinks has the best chance to stop Trump and American Fascism in general. This perspective seems to make a lot of things line up including this verbal thrashing of his. He does have access to communication with top democratic play-makers, who knows how long hes been telling them something like this.
He specifically said he wouldn't iirc.
I must have missed that but I believe it.
https://apnews.com/article/bernie-sanders-biden-endorsement-2024-d8f0772b117e2bf83e1062708ea651c0
The safe, sane choice lost. I say we fight crazy with crazy.
Robbed twice, still tries to help people. Can't say that about most politicians.
Now is about the time of year I remember to say "Fuck Debbie Wasserman Shultz"
Still upset she moved up in positioning in the party. Genuinely feels like she cheated and won with zero consequences.
She's probably on AIPAC payroll. Can't upset America's boss.
AIPAC gave her more than 400k this year alone.
geez you weren't kidding
and that was in January. If it's any consolation, the evil is slowly draining her life away it seems.
2016 :
2023:
Seems like that's going around a lot these days.
Yeah. The Democrats really screwed the pooch on that one. He's a solid candidate, and has stood on his moral stance from before the Democrats recognized the issues that are now popular.
Sorely needed, sorely missed.
Yes. But this is not news... We've known this for years.
They keep giving us candidates nobody fucking wants and keep being surprised when they lose
And then it creates all this infighting where we're all blaming each other for being Bernie bros or third party protest voters when in reality it's the regular joes on the street who need to be convinced to give a fuck about their candidate, not terminally online hyperpolitical dweebs
The democrats are just gonna keep losing and our climate is going to slip deeper and deeper past the point of no return. Earths climate, our political climate, our social fabric, all of it. Slowly but surely being pissed down the drain because Joe Biden thought he should run despite middling approval ratings and massive health concerns, leaving us with literally zero choice but to back Harris once he inevitably stepped down. Because we had so called "superdelegates" choosing our candidates for us in the 2016 election when we were actually able to finally build a massive grassroots movement spearheaded by the Sanders campaign.
We're gonna keep losing, and we're gonna keep blaming each other, and the ruling class are just gonna keep sinking their claws deeper into what used to be ours.
I'll see you all again in four years, same time, same place, same fucking rigamarole
It's why I stopped voting altogether. Last time I voted in general elections was 2008. Last time I primaried was for Bernie in 16. Only time I ever donated money, too.
Fuck the Democrats. They made it clear they want Republican voters more than than they want me
Don’t vote, don’t get to complain.
Not saying that you have to vote when you dislike the options given. But you do have other options. Like spoiling your ballot, or nullify your ballot.
Yes the results are the same, but by voting this way, you are actively participating in your democratic process. While not voting at all you are not. And if you do not participate, in my view, you cannot complain about the results.
Oh and if you don’t know how, on election day just ask the poll workers. They should’ve been trained on how to handle it.
Nullifying a ballot.. So you say I should get off my sofa and go all the way to town to nullify my ballot?
LOL no I'll just sit at home and make liberals cry tears of anger while they feign enthusiasm for their dogshit candidate
Thanks for letting me no to never pay attention to anything you say.
And thanks for not letting me pay attention to you. lol
You really can't keep blaming the voters guys, it the politician and surprise surprise you can can't force an entire party's nominee without a proper primary
If they didn't vote, they're not a voter. Non-voters get their fair share of the blame, and non-voters who want to complain get shamed.
What if I voted differently from how you want me to vote?
How I "want" you to vote is pragmatically. If you vote 3rd party in a FPTP election, you're pragmatically indistinguishable from a non-voter.
If you're a leftist, the pragmatic strategy is to recognize the ratchet effect and vote for the "halt movement" party over the "full send fascism" party. It's much easier to push leftist policies and promote leftist representatives under a neo-liberal regime than under a fascist one. At the absolute minimum the neo-liberals decelerate the plunge into fascism.
Neoliberalism IS fascism
What? No it isn't. Fascism is fascism, neo-liberalism is neo-liberalism. You can certainly make a compelling argument that neo-liberalism eventually begets fascism. But fascism is already fascism, it's not waiting to be begotten.
When the viable options are the road to fascism, or the destination itself, non-fascists are best served choosing the road. At least on the road you have a chance of slowing down or steering down an alternate road, or even turning around as remote as that possibility is. When you're at the destination, it's too late.
Liberals seem to get real uppity when you remind them how actual holders of leftist beliefs in the general US population are almost nonexistent and all third party votes added together wouldn’t have saved Harris.
Although if liberals were capable of using logic, they wouldn’t be liberals. You even see it in their hilarious Lemmy tantrums, they are genuinely so confused and lost.
If only leftists were there saying exactly what they were doing wrong and exactly what would happen for literally the last four years.
Oh wait. We were. Weird how Marx and Lenin continue to be proven right by history again and again.
You might want to check your own logic there.
Help me parse this logic. I'm having trouble figuring out how "Leftists are much too small and insignificant a demographic to make a meaningful difference in elections, therefore Democrats should implement leftist political strategy" makes any sense.
Liberal tears have been very tasty today. Salter than usual
Dems 100% sold them out and assumed they'd still vote D as long as a handful of issues were different.
The worse the Republicans got, the worse Dems got. Because they could get away with it and it increased donations.
The thing is it just energizes republicans and depresses Dem turnout.
If the goal is winning elections is a terrible strategy.
If you only care about money and the election is just a grift to you tho, it's a win/win. The result of the election doesn't really matter.
and now the ratchet effect will kick in again:
"See? The people WANT the republicans. That's why they keep electing republicans. Therefore, if we want to be competitive, we must become more like republicans."
There was never really that much risk of Dems losing voters to the Repubs (at least as long as Trump was the R candidate). The real damage came from Dems losing enthusiasm.
This. I just had a very long argument with someone else that completely and utterly failed to grasp this simple concept. Trump ran as the most conservative conservative ever and his base loved him for it. Harris ran as the most conservative liberal ever and her base gritted their teeth and grudgingly trudged to the polls. And then the DNC is shocked and flabbergasted that they didn't get a better turnout.
Centrists will never understand that when you run to the right, the right doesn't buy it and the left believes you.
The thing that has driven me crazy for so long is this is the situation in America.
There are 70M Americans that will vote Republican and nothing will ever change their minds
There are 70M Americans that will vote Democrat and nothing will ever change their minds
There are a couple million independent undecided voters that everyone goes after
Then there are 100M+ people that sit out the election and no one seems to try to understand what would make them vote. It’s so crazy that we have just decided that there are red states and blue states and that’s how it is. A party that could retain some of either party while activating half the people that sit out would be a force to reckon with.
As the Democratic Party has tried to find some way to win again they have gone after which group? The handful of independents and the 70M republicans that aren’t going to vote for them ever. And the people sitting it out probably aren’t looking for them to shift right, if so they would be republicans.
I think this is a bit naive. Both partys will have done their homework and have a fairly good idea what it is those disenfranchised voters want. The problem is is what they want is at odds with what the party's big donors want.
Naive is the Democratic party’s current position of favoring those donors over voters.
I understand that they’ve done a cynical calculus and decided to leave those voters on the sidelines. It is a failing strategy that successfully got them billions of dollars and lost the election.
It is not that I do not understand the deeper reason, it is that I reject it as a failure.
You mean to say that Dick Cheney's endorsement didn't excite the base?
To be fair, they should've voted Dem, but instead sat out against their own best interest.
The electorate is incredibly fucking stupid.
The strategy made sense to anyone with half a brain. It seems I overestimated the median American, though.
You're right. Lot of people sat out because of inflation, which was driven by corporate greed, which of course a Republican is not going to address. The electorate needs a fucking education. Prices have stopped climbing aggressively. They're not going to go back down. Wage growth is the next step, which is another thing a Republican will not address. Americans cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Dems had 3 years and change to address insane profiteering and price gouging that started with COVID “supply chain issues” which was wrapped under the guise of inflation and record profits. Where’s that bill again?
Kamala made 1 mention of a plan to scrutinize this issue and then backed down because of some potential backlash.
There’s education and there’s gaslighting. Your point is the latter.
Remind me again when Biden had a supermajority in Congress?
Edit: That's what I thought.
Then their job was to be sure we all knew they were not ignoring it even if there was little they could do.
I would vote for Bernie in a heartbeat.
He seems to always be on the right side of history, he understands the root causes of our national crises, and he has solutions.
Problem: Two-party system, voter apathy.
Solution: Ranked choice voting, remove electoral college (popular vote interstate compact).
Problem: Bought elections.
Solution: Repeal Citizens United.
Problem: Federal deficit spending.
Solution: Reform government contracts with private corpos so we're not getting gouged. Repurpose military budget. Tax the rich.
Problem: Ignorant and misinformed voting population.
Solution: More school funding, pay teachers more.
Problem: All surplus value is siphoned away from the working class.
Solution: Tax incentives for employee-owned companies. More support for unions.
Problem: Consumer price gouging.
Solution: Break up monopolies, punish anti-competitive behavior.
Problem: Irresponsible banking.
Solution: Un-repeal Glass-Steagall.
Problem: Expensive healthcare.
Solution: Universal healthcare. Don't even try to tell me we can't afford it.
None of that stuff is going to happen, unfortunately, not while the Rs control everything. And it's not official but it looks like they're going to win the house too. So they're going to run buckshot on this country with no one to stop them. They'll control all 3 branches.
None of it happened while Ds had any modicum of control either. Bernie represents what the democratic party should be, not what it is and has been. They pivoted hard to the status quo and we are footing the bill.
I honestly feel like this must be how partys flip. The Democrats are the Republicans of the seventies, the new conservative party.
Now, I'll be the first to admit that the Republican party hasn't exactly moved left, and is the biggest hole in my theory. Who knows maybe this populism will pave a path forward for them.
The Republican party has moved left in rhetoric. The promise to fix everything and put America first. Create all the jobs. The best economy!
The will not do it. But that is irrelevant.
Uh, Bernie was blocked by the democrats, not the republicans.
Hey I just wanted to say that this is a great post. It really shows how little Hilary, Biden, and now Harris brought to the table
It's crazy how the DNC only wants to appeal to moderates, and Republicans cross the aisle, after witnessing how Trump performs
yeah but how can we get any of those solutions when fascists keep getting elected?
I think ranked choice voting and the popular vote interstate compact can happen at the state level. Just needs more local campaigning.
Then people would feel more empowered to vote for who they really want. I think that would be a big push towards nominating an actual progressive candidate.
Repeal Taft-Hartley and pass the PRO Act while we're at it
I don't think I agree with you about deficit spending because actually it's not clear that some degree of a deficit is bad. The country does print its own money, so what you have written down in a spreadsheet might look scary but actually be less so.
In other words, what's true for a business or for an individual is often not true for a country that has its own mint.
Considering multiple blue states just voted against RCV, and the majority of the country voted to put even more ultra-conservative SCOTUS judges on the court, I'm not sure he is on the right side of history.
History is being written right now, soon to be dictated by Donald Trump, and recorded through the lens of Donald Trump. What will the fascist schoolbooks written by the Texas board of education say to remember the people who stood up against Trump?
Bernie Sanders is talking that shit.
Almost like he could have saved this whole scenario in 2016. Fuckin DNC kiss the ring Hillary bullshit.
At this point I'd be in favor of him just starting a podcast and enjoying retirement. The left has to go around the DNC to effectively deliver their message, it's foolish to think otherwise.
The dnc should all fall on their sword politically and admit that it would been better today had they given being their blessing and support when it would have mattered.
Then give Bernie power in the dnc to craft the future of the party. Find a new direction while there's still time
He's 83. It's best for him to leverage his celebrity than to really hunker down with an administrative role. If Trump can find true believers best believe the good guys can.
It's cute to read all of these comments attempting to strategize without realizing that it's all moot in a P2025 world.
We are fucked. It's too late to discuss realigning for "the next election," because there will never be a (fair) one ever again.
You are demoralized, i get it
Yeah. I am. What is your point?
If you or anyone else thinks what I'm saying is hyperbolic, then I want you to remember this exchange in 6 to 12 months.
If germany is an ally today the US then its never too late to keep fighting.
But you are absolutely entitled to feel like its pointless. Its not true, one might even say there has never been a fair election since the creation of the electoral college.
To say there will never be another fair election is hyperbolic.
I've probably got another 35 years, 67 more if im really lucky, you will have to give me more than 6 to 12 months.
I genuinely hope this doesnt cause a new civil war or worldwar. But im not willing to bet it isnt a precipice that has just been driven past, im waiting for a fall
That seems like a really big spread. I've probably got another 30, but nowhere near 60 even if I"m really lucky, unless I'm like "statistical outlier" lucky.
At least a few people have lived over 120. Its the spread that exists as far as we know, but also folks like david sinclair are researching longevity seriously. Crispr and stem cells. New categoriesn of vaccines. If the world doesnt burn out here, and we dont all kill each other its technically possible i could see the year 2100. Ill get to be one of the very few people who can say they remember 3 different centuries.
Not bad end... If im really lucky?
You do know what had to happen to Germany for it to become what it is after WW2, right?
It was basically destroyed, and the allies rebuilt it. That shit ain't happening again.
Crazier things have happened my dude civil war could happen again, it might even have happened if kamala had won. We wont know the crazy shit orange turd burger is gonna do
They've told us what they are going to do. We should listen.
Why isn't he running for president? Or he just never won the primaries?
In related news:
Because the dnc would rather lose running center right to right wing policies than be actually progressive.
Snubbed by Dnc royalty wanting to play it safe.
If only he did it in the first place instead of campaigning for them
This man has always cooked. I wish Dems had the ball to let him have the ticket both times he was snubbed despite cooking what needed to cooked.
He'd still be president if they hadn't shafted him in 2016, I'm sure of it.
Damn ivory tower liberal dems.
They aren’t even liberals. They don’t have the guts anymore to be actual liberals. They’re slaves to their corporate owners.
They need to swing for the fences more. Don't just bring forward the items that might pass, bring up the bills that really matter, again and again, and put that in an ad. I'm probably more politically in-tuned than most voters (clearly) and I only know of ONE vote to raise the minimum wage during Bidens term. It should've been a dozen votes and then Dems get to say they were fighting for the working class while the GOP gets paid to show up and say "No" to everything.
Yeah I forget who said it but I remember a commentator in 2016 complaining that Democrats seemed afraid to get out their and really be Democrats. But TBH I felt like Kamala was doing that.
That party of the Roosevelt is gone since the Clintons showed up. It's market-based solutions organization nothing. If you don't like it, you can forfeit your tax rebate
Are you referring to the upcoming lame duck session? Because Dems have a couple of months to try that, and then it looks like the openly fascist GOP is going to control all three branches of our federal government.
"That ain't my style," said Casey. "Strike one!" the umpire said.
I don’t buy this. In Nebraska there was an election between an independent union leader and a career politician. The union leader lost.
The consensus seems to be that people that voted democrat in 2020 voted republican this time because they experienced inflation under Biden that think it was his fault.
Uh, that's your answer. It's not a magic incantation to win regardless of the odds, but in a presidential election that's by default 50/50?
If the problem was that democrats did not support the working class enough then why didn’t the union leader win? This isn’t magic or rocket science. Many people thought democrats were responsible for the high inflation because they don’t know macro economics.
I think what’s missing is the anger. Trump can tap into anger. Bernie could also. The independent didn’t have the base of anger that the GOP did
Anger definitely motivated some but I know many moderates that were convinced democrats were responsible for the inflation.
But they were right! Dems did contribute to inflation (not as much as Trump but still)…Student loan forgiveness not explicitly tied to higher taxes on rich and corps, cutting back on subsidies to defense, oil, and corn syrup, while also not breaking up monopolies which create an environment of price gouging gave merit to the “democrats give out free cash and devalue it all”
Democrats did cause inflation. They did it by not clipping the wings of our oligarchs when supplying aid.
Biden kept his promise “nothing will fundamentally change” and the American electorate unimpeachably rejected it.
The main thing with Sanders campaign was it didn’t feel like a “democrats” vs “republicans”
It was us vs the billionaires
But the DNC could never bear to alienate their biggest donors.
Biden was calling out price gouging throughout his whole presidency.
Harris lost this election because she said she was going to tax the billionaires and so they funded the campaign against her.
For you to throw her under the bus after the billionaires campaigned against her is just going to ensure no future politicians will challenge the billionaire class again.
Harris had more billionaire donors than Trump and she out-raised him almost by $700 million. Of course there was plenty of dark money floating around and Musk dropped a ton of money into Pennsylvania, but don’t act as if Biden and Harris were working class darlings. Calling out price gouging is all good and well, and realistically, there’s only so much the president can do legally to combat inflation, but he did have the bully pulpit and a little bit of lip service to price gouging was not enough obviously. He could’ve been out there daily essentially doxing these companies and their ceos putting the fear of God in them.
Populism is a dirty word to the establishment, but both Trump and Bernie are populists. In fact, the first part of their message is essentially the same: America is going to shit, the Economy is terrible, and you’re getting fucked. The difference, of course, is that Trump points the finger at immigrants and others as the reason why this happening, while Bernie points the finger at the Oligarchs. The true power of populism is the threat of using the majority against the minority. It’s why it can lead to violence and mob rule.
People want someone to pay for the pain they are feeling, Trump is doing that, although of course it’s completely misguided and fucked up. The Democrats are not willing to do that. At some point, they’re going to need a Teddy Roosevelt like figure who comes along and essentially says to them, “hey listen I know it’s crazy, but if we don’t do something about the wealth inequality and the ruling class, we’re all gonna get our heads chopped off.”
The polls show that voters were motivated by inflation. Republicans and the billionaire class convinced enough voters that things like taxing the rich was part of the problem.
He had the albatross of a poor up-ballot candidate around his neck. Same reason most Democrats lost: The party didn't get people to go out and vote because they didn't appeal to workers, which hurt every candidate that wasn't Republican.
Voters are literally saying it was because of inflation during Biden presidency.
Democrats lost because they planned to tax the billionaire class so the billionaires funded the campaign against them.
Except Democrats outspent Republicans by a large margin. This wasn't an election lost from a lack of donations.
Donations are on the books. Things like Elon Musk buying votes are not on the books. The billionaire class did not want Harris to tax them.
Sorry, I guess I should have said this twice. You don't win Nebraska just by touching up the progressive message a little. Propaganda still exists, party loyalty still exists, racism still exists. But he did a hell of a lot better than any slow and steady liberal candidate would do. And in races that aren't in deep red states, doing better is enough to win.
Why are you still here? The election is over, you got what you wanted. Just fucking leave.
Fuck off.
What consensus is saying this? Outside of Latino men and first time voters shifting to Trump, most analysis (so far) is that the Democrats lost around 10-15 million votes from 2020, compared to Trump losing only 2 million. If all the Dems/Undecideds moved to Trump, he would have not lost voters.
What was the Red vs Blue turnout in Nebraska in 2020 vs 2024, I bet that would go a long way to explain why the union leader lost.
Agreed. That “consensus” is another bs talking point to cover up that they yet again alienated their own voters to appease their masters.
yeah, that's problem all around the world, people are too dumb to understand how two years of covid and ongoing war in europe affects our lives and demand that someone just takes care of it.
so in a year we will get populist pro-russian billionaire prime minister who will just start dropping more inflation money around and tells people "see? i will take care of you!" (while stealing some of these money for himself, of course)
And Harris was too stupid to just come out and say that she'd do that. Not Trump though. See that huge sign behind him at rallies? "Trump will fix it".
The dem strategy should have been to bombast like Trump, but more. Make America greatER. Would have really taken the wind or of his sails, IMO.
yeah, i don't think that trying to out-idiot an idiot is valid strategy, especially if you don't aim at stupid voters.
First of all, it is hard to beat career politicians. They have a track record, experience. Second, you're in Nebraska. Third, and most importantly, the goal is not for a single person to win, but to build a strong organization that will make people's lives better, and that would over time get more people to vote, because they would understand that it matters.
In other words, big corporate Democrats are mediocre at best, and often much worse than that, so of course people stay home. But if you think they're the wave of the future, hey, do whatever you like.
This counters what Bernie said.
I’m not in Nebraska. Just giving one of many examples of politicians that support the working class losing because of the billionaire class.
Scapegoating the democrats that tried to tax the billionaire class prevents this from happening.
I don’t think they’re the wave of the future. I think the billionaire class countered Harris because they didn’t want to be taxed like she laid out in her plans and now people are trying to scapegoat them, ensuring it will be less likely that the next person will try it again. Just like the billionaire class wants.
don't worry, we'll replay that record again in a year while they blame biden again
I fucking love Bernie. He needs a protege.
Not positive, but I think AOC is the closest thing right now in terms of message and visibility.
She should start a Democratic Socialist party as a leader, with Bernie as the spiritual leader/Grandpa. Start convincing sitting Democrats to switch parties. Now is the time
And get executed by Project 2025 Brown shirts...
You people really do not get it.
Too soon. Wait 2 years.
Waiting is never a good strategy.
It can be if your opponent is looking to hang you first chance they get.
unsurprisingly, I think bernie does not care and would only consider the safety of others involved.
to my thinking, anyone involved should be willing to commit to the idea that this revolution wont come through evolution and wont be televised.
The best time would have been 7-8 years ago. The second best time is now.
Incrementalism's ultimate goal is to see "too soon" become "too late."
Pretty sure AOC is why centrists are announcing that Harris lost because she's a woman and a minority.
AOC
We don't deserve Bernie. He's to pure to be infected by being president. With that said, I'd give my left nut to see Bernie in the oval office
The typo is staying just to annoy you grammar nazis. I know the difference in to, too, two. You can suck our collective too nuts
I'll pitch in my right for a full pair
Deal. Now we just gotta talk to Bernie and present our collective nuts
The Democratic Engagement to Elect Sanders. DEES nuts, we could even call it!
🥲 its beautiful
"collective nuts" Ha!
And my ovaries!
I throw in my sack to contain these two donated nuts.
If it meant my testicle for un-gerrymandering the voting districts, ranked-choice voting, and abolishing "first-past-the-post", you can call me the one nut wonder, brother.
He's too* pure
You guys need a labor party
We have a nascent left-wing movement in the local governments of many cities. It's loose and relatively unorganized but it's more than we've had in decades. Bernie's run in 2016 has a lot to do with that.
Our primary election turnout is abysmal, and Americans need to realize that the primaries are how the parties get reformed. Maybe the Democratic Party will have its Tea Party moment in 2026.
You guys should get better red
Then why are you showing a worse one?
At least this one will get everyone education, healthcare, housing, welfare and public transport.
We need to MAGA up the liberals. They think liberals were insufferable before, we about had enough of this establishment bullshit.
Ngl, Neoliberal Populism sounds bad.
It's sucks so bad. So fucking bad.
Authoritarian Left sounds bad too, but it would nice if they executed the rule of law instead of making excuses to remain politically neutral.
I don't know about MAGA, but the Democratic party definitely needs to go hard into the same kind of obstructionism that the Republicans have been doing. No validation of insane policies, no negotiating with terrorists.
And when everyone accuses the Democrats of not cooperating, they need to just stay quiet and stay the course. For the next four years, the legislature is closed.
Republicans can be evil and Democrats work with them an compromise on killing half of them.
Democrats consider maybe paying postal workers and Republicans stop it and cry how it's unconstitutional to have people paid for their labor.
If the Democrats got a spine and told Republicans "Just shut up, you complained about breaking segregation." And get things done, we'd be a fucking utopia.
No. Don't stay quiet. Blame the Republicans!
I saw on one of the newscasts on election night that the overturning of Chevron deference is going to come back to kneecap the whole GOP agenda because they'll have to pass all their (de)regulatory changes through Congress which will be, as you say, closed.
I'm pretty sure that's what we were trying to do back in 2016, but it was her turn.
No
Check reddit and .world and you'll see the people doing that.
Nah, I'm good. Been punk rock long enough to know it's just gonna be the thing to hate. Just planning in my head how the subversion works this time. I just hope they tear it ALL down this time and stop f'ing around.
Yeah dude so punk rock man!
Jesus fucking Christ we are all doomed
Goddamn this hits the exact thing that Democrats really need to learn.
There's a ton of emotion in this nation. Given:
And that's just to name a few. There's a ton of emotion in this nation. And Trump, for better or worse, taps into that emotion. The cut and dry democrats, they keep telling us, "The system will work, this time" and you have a public that just screams "well how soon is now then?"
Democrats cannot just keep tapping on the system as it currently stands when the system so obviously doesn't deliver. There are hungry democrats looking for change to the system to form a more better system that will serve them, and the party just keeps dressing the bones of the long gone bird from days long pass.
Sanders fucking sinks the nail in a single stroke of the hammer on this. And Republicans are using that emotion, that pent up distrust of the system as it is, to move people in their direction. The entire point of this living government is to have a government, to have a system, that matches the people who are alive and having to deal with it. Sanders sees that and cut and dry Democrats keep going "but Trump will ruin the system that doesn't work for you!!"
Goddamn, one day, they will learn. Democrats will pick up on what Sanders is saying one day. But holy shit, they are going to clearly take an incredibly long and winding road to get there. I don't agree with where Republicans want to take us. I don't agree with how Republicans want to get there. But goddamn, we've got to hand it to them that they're actively pointing out the exact same thing the Sanders is pointing out. "Status Quo ain't going to fucking work anymore." The sooner the traditional Democrats learn that, the faster they can come back to being relevant.
The single best thing the Dems can do now is take a chapter out of the Republican playbook and obstruct everything, full tilt, no good barred. Inject themselves into everything, all committees, panels, investigations, reviews, etc, and block. See how much Trump can accomplish when the shoe's on the other foot.
Tbh, unless Wasserman-Schultz and the other imbecilic DNC royalty step down or are made to fuck all the way off somehow, I don’t think the Democratic Party is going to recover from this. And in that case, frankly, they shouldn’t recover. This result is absolutely, unambiguously damning.
Again with this talk about strategy as if any of it is going to matter in 3 months when they start executing people
I mean… I don’t think you’re wrong, but I also think it’s useful to make contingency plans for cases OTHER than the most likely worst-case scenario.
In the next government, we're not having elections thanks to Harris botching it for everyone. The RBG of presidential candidates. Thinking you know best until it's too late and now we need to plan for the fact you made things worse.
If holding on too long is RBG's legacy, then wouldn't Biden be the RBG of presidential candidates? He held on until after the primaries before dropping out.
Fair enough, point taken.
Had Trump won in 2020, he’d have taken the fall for the Recession and Hyperinflation and it would have caused a 2008 effect. Populist Wave haulted, strangled in it’s crib by Coronachan.
Had Trump won in 2020, he’d be done now and his VP would still be the democracy respecting Pence.
Trump when elected in 2016 had no major plan and mostly left the employees of the state intact, and in 2020 the change was minimal. Now there’s a full blown scheme to control the government
In 2020 they didn’t know how much they could get away with. They’ve seen the limits now.
Winning in 2020 means no January 6th shattering the overton window and leading SCOTUS to some interesting choices about power.
2020-2024 had one Supreme Court Justice to appoint. Now there’s another 2 if not 3
In 2020 it would have been close. Now Democrats will have to regain ground, New Jersey New Hampshire and Minnesota are now Swing States.
2016 Trump had his populist wave weakened by Gary Johnson and Evan McMulin who blocked the popular vote and kept states like Colorado and New Mexico out of his hands. 2016 Trump sucked with Hispanics. That initial wave would have burnt out with the COVID fuckery. Instead Democrats slotted in, took the 4 worst possible years, and are handing it back having effectively both given them another shot in the arm and crippled themselves. There goes the court. This isn’t John Kerry, it’s Carter.
I’ve heard of 2020 hindsight, but this is ridiculous
And you bet your ass they'll appoint them as young as possible so they've got their pocket justices for another 40 or 50 years.
Imagine a time traveller appearing in 2020 and trying to convince everyone they needed to reelect Trump
The "shut up and fall in line while we do nothing for you" bullshit is what got them. Add a full support for a genocide and doing nothing to stop it. A lot of people voted for Trump out of spite to the Dems. They know Trump is worse, but they got burnt by the Dems so many times and they're done with them. I personally voted Harris, but in the back of my mind this is the very last time I'm voting for the " lesser of two evils". I'm just fucking done.
I think one way the party screwed up was by not cultivating younger Democrats to contend for the nomination this year. It's not like 2024 or Biden's age snuck up on anybody - they should have had a slate of viable options ready besides him. The Harris campaign was brilliantly run, especially on such short notice, and I don't blame her or the campaign one bit for failing. But as many analysts have pointed out, the public didn't feel like they knew her - the VP is surprisingly not super visible. One thing Trump had in his favor was that he was "the devil you know". He had already been President and we're still here, whereas they didn't feel they knew Harris. I thought that changed radically as the summer went on. She really seemed to grab everybody. It was electric and exhilarating. But apparently not enough.
They royally fucked up three elections by pushing shitty unpopular candidates to the point where we ended up with a little fascist whiny bitch in office with unchecked power. We cannot rehabilitate the Democratic party, the damage is complete there is nothing there left to save. The democrats lost worse in 2024 than republicams did in 2020, we judge Republicans for hanging on to their party after it got commandeered by Trump, but when are democrats going to turn around and look in the mirror because our party fucked up worse than we could have possibly imagined and here we are sitting thinking it will be different next time, after twelve fucking years of this shit. Disaffected Republicans and Democrats must build a coalition to form a new party and kick out the old and stale guard that is holding on to our body of government like a tick with Lyme disease
Careful now, that sounds like one of them there socialism words.
No one remembers your name
When you're estranged
When you're estranged
When you're estraaaaaanged
Sanders is the OG
I think the time has arrived for party diversification. If the DNC wants my vote back they’ll need to earn it back. I have thrice voted for them to avoid a Trump Presidency, and 2/3 of those attempts were unsuccessful.
No longer will my vote be held hostage by the people that will squander it. From now on I vote for who I want, not against who I don’t, since it apparently doesn’t matter anyway. At least this way I vote on my own terms.
Bernie is too good for us, we need someone like him with a shot at gaining popularity for policy stances not backed by one of the large establishment parties.
It really says something when the media browbeated minorities actively harmed by neoliberal policies into voting Democrat and never third party, and third party didn't even sway anything in any state.
I voted Green in 2016 in California and I regretted it. I voted Democrat in 2020 (knowing it doesn't matter, I live California), despite Sanders getting shafted a second time. I voted Harris in 2024, and I swallowed my morals to do it.
And I got nothing but Trump rolling out his plans his oligarchs planned since 1980.
Exactly. What did it accomplish? Jack shit.
The way to affect change in elections apparently is to unite the larger population around a single person/cause/issue. We just need to find ours and convince enough people.
Personally, I just want a country where we actually let people different than us live and prosper. Why the fuck is that such a hard thing to have???
I have family and friends that are POC, gay, trans, and/or physically/mentally disabled. Why should they have to put up with policies and leaders that vilify them for simply being who they are?
Why do we accept normalized medical debt?
Why do we accept a constantly eroding education system?
Why do we not scale minimum wage consistent to inflation?
I know the real answers, but I think more of the population needs to vote based on the results of them asking themselves why this is the norm and find the candidate willing to fix that shit.
I have a feeling it won’t be an establishment Democrat.
What is says is that the Green Party has always been a joke that exists solely to trick idealists like yourself into throwing away your vote every 4 years.
The reason they didn't vote third party is because it's always been a joke.
I don't like this argument. Ideally Republicans and Democrats should be giving olive branches to the larger third parties, whom you voted for in the primary. I'd much rather see a third party base putting pressure on topics, that's the whole point of having third parties. It's like a political game of chess and you shouldn't have to default to a 2 partily echo chamber.
Same could be said of boycotting the election all together. It's a power play in order to motivate the parties to change.
The point of the two parties should be earning your vote by representing you. Skipping the primary for Biden's replacement was the downfall of this election because it weakened the support of the candidate before she even started.
On the flip side, I do agree that Jill Stein is a grifter
If they were serious parties, they wouldn't disappear for 4 years, only to come out of their hole for one presidential election, before disappearing again. That's not how you create a successful or even viable party.
You're blaming the egg for hatching into a chicken. It's a useless brand of logic, really.
"Pain? What's that? Some kind of... 'poor-person' thing?? Wait, I remember now, it's the french word for bread! Well, let them eat baguettes~"
Seems that the “big money interests” would be at odds with helping the working class.
Democrats have definitely become the elitist party. They parade their rich celebrity friends around to inspire your vote. Can it become more ridiculous?
Don't you mean Trump? The literal billionaire who represents the richest man in the world? Weird
Yea but with the republicans you already sorta expect it. Harris pivoted from a really sensible campaign that honestly I think would've won, to "look at all these rich people, celebrities and even right-wing warmongers who support me!" - and while I get the point - a dirtbag like Cheney supporting Harris is a sign of how fucked up Trump REALLY is - the message might not have been as clear to everyone.
Yes. They thought Dick Cheney would do the trick.
Do you by chance mean Liz Cheney?
No, I mean every centrist's Senpai, DICK Cheney. They were so fucking happy when they got the endorsement of their favorite living war criminal not named Netanyahu.
I'm relatively centrist in that I hold positions from both the left and the right, but I'm also anti-authoritarian and anti-war. I can't stand Dick Cheney.
Oh, lol. I honestly thought he was dead.
Just wait until Ted Cruz switches parties and runs as a dem for President in 2028
And you're saying "billionaire" Donald Trump up on stage with the wealthiest man in the world is somehow more in-touch?
Jesus Christ, get real you guys.
Obviously voters seem to think he's more in-touch
Intelligence is a bell curve, after all.
"BLASTS!"
I mean yeah, but what about "SLAMS" or "RIPS INTO"?
A good suplex may at least get readers' attention.
"Bernie Sanders DESTROYS the Democratic Party FROM THE TOP ROPE following Harris loss." would get my attention.
BY GAWD THE DNC IS (rhetorically) TORN IN HALF!
Agreed usually any post with any of these words in the title just immediately pisses me off lol
Lmao you just know that last sentence in the article was inserted in there by a salty editor
I will always blame DWS, Clinton, and to a slightly lesser extent Brazile for the ruin of the party. Until there is proportional representation (i.e. never), there will never be a party that represents a great many of us.
Will he finally start a party? Please?
And then what? What do you think that would accomplish?
Democracy, hopefully.
Democracy is done in the US.
lmmfao, Bernie Sanders hasn't achieved anything in his entire useless life, he isn't going to start now. Don't believe me? Look up his legislative record. The man only talks, he doesn't do the work. He hasn't actually done anything. He's like the rest of The Squad that way. They don't work with a coalition to pass law, they chirp from the cheap seats, and target Jews for votes.
Yeah, lets look up some stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders#Legislation
But the billionaires don't have millions of votes.
They can control the narratives. Democrats haven't done enough to break the "both sides are the same" narrative, this is a 32 year problem. It breeds apathy and apathy helps autocrats.
Rollin' out this banger one more time...
https://youtu.be/moNHfeBJ81I
Rings a bit hollow. Biden stood up for unions, did not interfere with strikes, and always sided with the worker.
The other party... celebrating layoffs, cutting the fat, blocking unions.
So sure, maybe they could be better. But to say they abandoned the American worker, thats a bit of a stretch.
Love Bern, but right now he's playing Monday morning QB.
My guy, Biden blocked a railroad workers strike because it endangered corporate interests, and he didn't give them a key piece they were asking for: paid sick leave.
Not trying to be rude, the media cycle buried that result.
The unions got the sick leave, after the media reported the strike ended without it.
It was accomplished a couple weeks later, if I recall correctly.
https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
4, not the 7 they wanted or deserved. he doesn't get any credit for this. he broke the strike weakening their position.
I'm partially agreeing, I want to point out that they did get 7 days allotted.
Not all 7 of those are from sick time, so you've got a point.
I find it a reach to say the administration gets no credit when it's definitely been assigned to them on multiple fronts for the effort.
Congress was involved here too. Do you think our president should be a despot?
Were you directly involved in negotiations?
The people who were directly involved, gave the Biden administration credit for an assist.
Dig deeper the people who gave credit were the same members who didn't support the strike in the first place. iirc.
I blame everyone involved who voted to break the strike. don't try to assert for me things I havent asserted.
So you don't acknowledge when you're wrong, and will continue to move goalposts. You're taking a defensive posture.
It's becoming clear now.
You're a bad faith actor.
You're of course welcome to continue believing that. Thats of course your prerogative. But I'm just going to point to the results since they speak for themselves.
Harris is missing 20million votes. You were warned and decided that arguing with me about the lesser evil 'optimal voting strategy' than realizing the danger harris was putting you in was a good idea. 👍 Good job. Now go convince those 20million other individuals since you've failed here.
You know what they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. (I know you struggle with analogies, you're the 🐴)
Yes please, tell us how marxists and leninists will save humanity and not be the same as it ever was and always has been.
😂 never once have i mentioned them. Seek help you're arguing with ghosts.
Ok. What solution do you have that will work?
Please, elaborate on a working solution.
Do you have anything realistic that can change the results of citizens united vs FEC's ruling?
You said you warned us, but your cake day is not old enough to account for that. You're lying or you've been banned for being what you are.
I'm discussing facts with a bad faith actor. I'm looking for your true colors.
You spouting words doesn't make them true.
Yes, there are solutions to these problems. they've been well discussed by many people over many years. I won't be engaging with you specifically here because well frankly your not worth my time and we're well off base from the original conversation on Biden being a fucking strike breaker. which he, and congress, empirically were.
Am I happy he got them 4(!) days of sick leave? sure. do I think he fucking absolutely short changed them? 100%. you don't get credit for not pushing someone off the ledge just because you patched up their leg. You've been told to look deeper at the union groups involved and which ones played with the biden admin vs which ones were actually on strike. go do your homework. I'm happy to be proven wrong here. this is half recalled information. But beyond that shrug.
That's how contract negotiations work dumbass
😂 hard to negotiate with a gun to your head via the government.
optics matter and he failed to secure that.
I agree, optics matter to the public and media.
The media has sane washed an insane old person, while negatively spinning or outright ignoring any Biden accomplishment.
The fact is, in this system, we're trying to convince a small group of undecided folks in a few swing states to get involved and make a choice.
The majority of the public is too tired and busy to bother to review the facts, and happy to watch an opinion of the matter - whether it's true or not.
If it fits into their world-view there's no need to challenge it.
No, that undecided group does not exist, this election clearly demonstrated that. Trump results are nearly identical to 2020. What exists are people who are not engaged or disalusioned. They also are poor and going to vote is a meaningful event that takes energy that they don't have.
Yeah, you're acting in bad faith here too.
The numbers of votes clearly show over 24 million people sat out 2024 vs 2020.
Undecided doesn't mean they'll make a decision on voting day.
I know of several people who willingly sat out because the state they're in was always decided and they didn't feel it would matter.
You just said exactly what I said while also saying im acting in bad faith.
Apologies, I didn't figure the math right. ~16 million.
I disagree.
Your first statement was that an undecided voter group didn't exist.
That's what I'm responding to.
Undecided did exist as ~16 million fewer votes were cast. Those could be protest votes could be voter roll purges...
We don't know what they've decided because they didn't decide in a way that is counted.
That is all.
They can claim whatever reason they want. They abdicated their voices this time. Hope they're able to use them again.
I said exactly that, its not people choosing between the parties its choosing to engage, but even more than that its people for who voting is a burden and that in 2020 a lot of effort was put into giving people access to voting due to the pandemic.
That's what you wrote. You are backtracking on that statement now?
We know that ~16 million people didn't vote this time vs 2020. We know that around 60% of all possible voters participated in 2020. We don't know what that ~50-60% in (2024) actually want because they couldn't be convinced to decide. That is the definition of undecided. That is literally ~50% of registered voting people who left the choice undecided. A group you claim to be non-existent.
If they wanted to protest vote, they should and could have en masse voted for 'Gaza Freedom' or 'No Fascism' or any coordinated name as a write-in.
Several parties suggested it during their primaries. I can't find evidence of it occurring in those primaries.
At least 12 states have no registration requirement for their write-in votes on final elections. Most don't require it on primaries.
That didn't happen or wasn't reported. The evidence suggests the former.
I'd be more accepting of your claim if the facts actually supported your narrative.
The numbers show that only about 60% of people who can vote actually decided.
40% didn't decide even after considering.
Beyond that there's still 40% of the population who didn't even decide to consider voting.
Which group of undecided voting eligible citizens do you claim as non-existent?
You didn't say exactly what I said.
Your initial statement was in disagreement with the statement regarding undecided voters.
That's some nonsense from Bernie. Unions have fared better under Biden than any President for decades, and Bernie knows it. This is posturing image-burnishing for the naive; you think Bernie doesn't market himself to all the young progressives? Then, when the cameras are off, he turns into a garden-variety Democrat, voting solidly with this elitist-run party every time, without pouting and making protest votes or anything like that.
That’s a pretty dishonest description of Bernie. I don’t dare to say if your statement about unions is true, and it might as well be, but what Bernie is saying here is that it’s not enough. He’s arguing the democrats need to be more progressive. Feel free to disagree with his suggestion though.
I do think that the bigger problem is that the average person lacks the general understanding of how policies affect their lives. They want simple answers and Trump is giving them that. People are shortsighted and have a hard time grasping the bigger picture, and rather vote based on a gut feeling.
We can disagree about Bernie. I think it's deeply cynical of him to point the finger he's pointing.
You are very right about simple answers vs annoying complexity, and this is a systemic problem the Democrats will always face. Being based in reality and choosing to try to solve actual issues instead of simplified strawmen means the Democrats never will have an appealing story to tell, for most folks.
I think what he is getting at is that democrats could be more “aggressive” in how to appeals to the working class people. These subtle policies that have marginal benefit don’t have enough perceived impact.
Democrats could promise something simple and with clear benefits to common folks, something that can be easily understood. People want change. I think Bernie was almost getting there when he was running.
MAGA fans have jumped on the bandwagon of “sticking it to the man”, and “draining the swamp”. Which is kind of what Bernie wants to do but sincerely, with a track record to prove it.
Edit: added “perceived “
Dems gave up on the working class after nafta and have stayed that way ever since
Not under Biden.
Clinton fucked the party over with NAFTA, and sided with big business. Biden did not: Biden did more for workers and the working class than any other President since FDR.
But he doesn't get credit for it, because people don't pay attention. They remember he ordered the railroad workers back to work, and say it proves he's anti-labor. They didn't really follow up on the fact that a few weeks later, his administration helped get them the new contract that gave them more paid sick days than they had originally asked for. But the story was long out of the news by then.
I can't stand idiot liberals who don't read past headlines and drift with the news wind.
That describes most voters. Either you find a way to reach them or you lose
They should have let Biden run. Replacing him with Harris will go down as the dumbest move the DNC, or any American political party, has ever done.
It wouldn't have changed the outcome. After 4 years of Biden, people were over it. The millions of extra votes that showed up to stop trump in 2020 wouldn't have showed up for Biden, if they didn't show up for Harris.
People want change. Unfortunately this result is what happens when 1 candidate stays status quo and 1 candidate is for change.
All the exit polls in swing states were showing only 40% or less approve of Biden. You think the outcome would have been any different?
Rare Bernie L. You absolutely can blame the non voters. They are just as bad as every MAGA voter.
Blaming the poor is a cool and fun take. If you willing want to blame those for which voting is actually a burden then you are the problem.
The people who didnt vote and therefore chose fascism are the problem
The people who are already being subjugated by the system, yeah you are wrong and your take is dangerous and enabling of the system.
Fuck the people who sacrifice the entire planet because they think the system is unfair so they just chose to allow fascism. I hope project 2025 fucks them more than the systwm ever did
The poor have a lot less to lose than you do. This isn't going to change much for them, so it was on people like you to convince them to vote. Promising nothing besides "Not Trump" isn't going to cut it. Try actually helping them for a change instead of blaming them and then wishing they get fucked, you god damned psychopath.
So, just curious,what's your plan to replace the voters? Are you just bitching, or does this lead somewhere? It seems to me that even if the voters are the problem, we need candidates capable of inspiring them to act differently.
Bad take. Lots of Bernie voters turned redipped after the DNC shafted Bernie. Blame the oligarchy
I blame the Bernie voters, actually. The ones who knew better but didn't vote out of spite.
Yes Draedron, you can. But you've already established your genocidal credentials. The rest of us will continue to mop up the mess you, harris/biden, and the dnc made as usual.
You are the one who picked the fascist by not voting. You are the one who gave power to someone who will worseb the genocide against Palestinians, Ukrainians and enables the coming genocide against Taiwanese people.
Agree
🤷 my vote was available, 20 million other votes were available, I showed up, I begged you, harris, biden, the dnc, my reps all year to stop a genocide. I warned you. My state went for harris, as I told you it would. but I fucking warned you what was about to happen.
I. Told. You. What. Was. About. To. Happen. you, like an ostrich, buried your head in the sand and sang 'lalala evil.' Now you're lashing out as if you didn't choose this.
You. Choose. This. The only person you have to blame is yourself and those mentioned above.
Your willingness to support a genocidal candidate above everything CHOOSE THIS.
Your willingness to play holier than thou and demand other people vote for a genocidal candidate CHOOSE THIS.
Your willingness to put corporate well being over american well being well being CHOOSE THIS.
Its okay to admit you made a mistake, say it after me: 'I did this. me. but next time I will do better'
You chose this by not voting. You think democracy and fascism are the same so you chose not to vote and risk fascism taking over. You caused this. And you will now see that fascism is not preferrable to democracy. Dont come and expect empathy. You are responsible for this by not voting for democracy.
But I am glad you admitted in your final sentence you made a mistake. Its too late now though. Your country will go down in flames thanks to your decision
You keep saying that, but I voted; just not in the manner you wanted because I don't support genocides under any circumstances.
again you chose this. you were warned. people told you. no amount of assertions by you will change these facts. when someone tells you what they're going to do you should believe them.
You threw your vote away like every non voter.
You heard what Trump will do and decided not to vote against him because you dont mind fascism. You chose this and you will suffer the hardest consequenceq. I wont. You chose fascism over democracy for something that will not change no matter the outcome. Something that will get even worse now. With Harris Palestinians would have a chance of survival. You took that chance away from them. Their blood is on your hands. The blood of your fellow countrymen and women who will die due to Trumps policies is on your hands.
Keep telling yourself that. You've seen the results of your position. Its a losing position. Your inability to self reflect will lead you to continuously repeating the same mistakes as you've done here.
If being against fascism is a losing position in your country it deserves the doom Trumpists and you non voters caused.
smile it is when the alternative offers nothing of value except more genocide, just because the genocide was to other people doesn't make it okay. Enjoy your life you clearly need some help.
This loss had literally nothing to do with Gaza.
Keep telling yourself that. Gaza was a component, as was inflation, and middle class woes. Harris lost 25 electoral votes in Michigan and Wisconsin alone.
Two states with heavy arab demographics. Oops! All so Israel can genocide. 🎉
Yes yes, the unmitigated genocidal campaign of indiscriminate bombings targeting all food, water, and medical infrastructure has gone on for over a year. Over one year of imminent famine. 99% of Gaza still alive. Doesn't that raise any concern in your mind that either your facts or your calculus could be wrong?
Hows that straw doing? still fresh I hope? pliable? I feel like the legs you made were a little thin. You sure it'll stand?
Are you trying to assert Israel isn't committing genocide? I'm not particularly interested in discussing the semantics of a genocide with a nobody like yourself. suffice to say, yes I'm confident in my calculus that harris' position on gaza cost her 25 electoral votes.
Whatever you have to tell yourself to get through the day, guy.
shrug Im handling this just fine. Ive been expecting it for the last two months watching harris campaign. Im mostly picking up the pieces in my local community and helping them get through their grief.
Your bunch on the other hand should probably go touch some grass. It'll help I promise.
Lol you fucking clown, he's not president yet. Revisit this thought in 6 months to a year.
Don't worry im well aware of what I'll need to be doing this entire presidency as a result of the democrats complete and utter boondongle.
Don't be too mean with him he's german
Like I give a fuck about whatever Bernie says at a time like this. Shut up and stop acting like you know what's best for us, this is some fine Monday morning QB that's completely unhelpful. Come at me Bernie bros.
Edit: Looks like the Bernie Bros do know how to vote after all! Just not where it matters. Shame on those who sat out the election in 2016 and 2024 to enable the slide towards fascism. Shame on those who didn't vote because of Gaza. Gaza and Ukraine are fucked now because of people like you. You do not have the moral high ground. Keep the downvotes coming, it means I struck a nerve. Shame on you. I sincerely hope the leopards come for you first.
Who do you want to listen to? The dem strategists that failed miserably?
I mean, yeah, I think that's unironically who they want to listen to. They're waiting for someone to tell them why the choices the party made were actually good and smart and how all the left punching they did was actually justified. I'm not sure they're going to get it, though; even the Pod Save America guys sounded on the verge of some self-reflection. But who knows, maybe they'll blame Russian disinformation campaigns again and put their heads back in the sand.
This comment once again proving that when you hit a lib, a fascist cries out.
That's a great one! Hmm, let's see what do you call a leftist who sits out the vote?
Complicit.
See, it's not really funny after all.
?? What ??
Shut the fuck up Bernie, you've spent 8 years corralling the working class into the undemocratic party controlled by the rich. Fuck you, you could have actually tried to start a new party but no, you did your job as a tool of the capitalists to keep people voting against their interests.
Saying that Bernie is garbage because he didn't dismantle the two party system seems a bit extreme. He actually has joined third parties but they didn't take off. He's also definitely anti-capitalist.
He's a socialdemocrat, which is still capitalism but with welfare.
That's fair, you're right. I was pulling my comment from memory of him fighting against de-regulation of corporations, which I consider to be an anti-capitalist stance. But I shouldn't have conflated the two.
Depends on what definition you use, classically a social Democrat is someone who believes in using democratic means to gradually and peacefully transition from capitalism to socialism. The definition you are using is actually closer to a social liberal but even that isn't quite right, welfare does not imply a mixed market economy on its own, welfare can exist in a pure laissez fair market economy. Social liberalism is in favor a mixed market economy which is a further step left from simply a regulated market economy with welfare. In a mixed market economy key industries are publicized and owned and operated by the government for the public benefit while allowing for the possibility of private competition as well as an open market economy in other industries and areas.
Absolute bullshit. He had the ear of the country in recent years, and could have told everyone to support a third party. Instead he funneled them into the undemocratic party.
What have you read about Bernie that justifies your outrage against him? Because he's done none of that.
He called for "revolution" only to keep people voting for the Dems instead of building an alternative.
I agree that I didn't agree with him towing the line. But you can't argue that's he's been nothing but a source of good at least at the Senate level and inspiring new progressives
Overall bad because of pulling young people in the Dems.