Lemmy probably feels like Reddit when it first started, all warm cuddly and friendly to newcomers eager to discuss and collaborate around central topics.
I joined reddit on the tailwind, so it was all echo chamber, we hate newcomers, gatekeeping, automod frenzy, too many rulebreakers, too many rules, etc I could be wrong, but thats what I imagine it used to be like.
I was on Reddit since almost the beginning and I would not say it's similar, but I also don't think that culture exists on the internet anymore, closest thing might be tildes?
What I really miss is the intelligent conversion and actual debate in the comments. People don't really lay out arguments anymore, complete with sources and logical conclusions. Back in the early days of Reddit you'd be downvoted and told off if you made a claim without evidence. Anecdotal evidence, speculation, and bias were called out. There were still jokes and light comment sections, but comments aiming to make a point were essays where you could actually learn something. Might sound exhausting to some, but it feels like the internet has turned into just upvoting whatever confirms your bias, whether there's evidence of it or not. I'm sure you can find some excellent examples in the old r/bestof posts.
The content was a lot different too, the community was just a lot more scientific. Studies were posted over articles, and clickbait articles (before they were even clickbait) were called out as not having substantial content or evidence. Even studies were heavily scrutinized by identifying the bias in the methodology.
There were a lot less communties (subreddits) too, which I think lead to healthier discussion overall and less of an echo chamber effect. It was still always criticized as being a "hive mind", but it felt less like one to me back then anyways.
I guess overall it feels like the main difference is everything nowadays is meant to radicalize you, or get a reaction out of you. Back in the day if something political or scientific was being shared it was shared with the intention of changing minds, not confirming bias.
Anyways, that's my old person rant. I'm probably looking at it all through rose tinted nostalgia glasses, but there's definitely been a shift in how we communicate on the internet for better or for worse.
Downvoted.
Not a laid out argument, complete with sources and logical conclusions. This is anecdotal, speculative, and biased information.
Serious note : Love your perspective about the old reddit I’m always curious to know what made internet what it was. I wonder if that’ll happen again.
Source or gtfo!
My favorite was old days of Reddit you’d be skewered for posting a .jpg instead of a .png of the image had text.
JPG should be killed off. We don't need a lossy image format anymore were not on dialup.
heard of 3g? theres better compression out there now anyways
Asking what's the difference got a response about three paragraphs long.
I wrote some of them.
I also remember constant reminders to vote on the quality of the post, not if you agree or not.
Haha yeah, I don't know if that disclaimer is still there, but that totally went out the window in the mid 2010s
It's not and that's because it's bad for Reddit's business model in the short term. If you zoom out this is exactly why reddit is on a nose dive over the last 3 years. More. Shit. Content.
Kinda pain in the ass to add links and formatting on a phone which most of us use. Early days of reddit was all Desktops.
Yeah good point, that's probably part of it! Reddit was probably used more during active time than passive time (while shitting). Gave you time to properly research a topic and structure arguments.
yea that reminds me when facebookk first came out and it was only for college, my friends would post stuff like that
/r/askhistorians was the last bastion of this approach. I loved that sub and really hope they migrate to a lemmy soon.
I appreciate this take, and I strive to make intelligent conversation here on Lemmy.
I only joined reddit like a year or so ago and have recently ditched it. I was never a fan of someone just spamming links to studies and condescending to me while doing so. I think people use links to sources as a way to control conversations. Or at least, that's all I ever saw it used as.
I don't know, I'm a pretty left leaning person. The vitriolic, almost violent responses to some of my comments is shocking. I knew Lemmygrad was a thing here, along with tankies, honestly it's off putting to say the least. OP talks about Reddit being an echo chamber. I got news for you. This place is just as bad for lefty type discourse being regurgitated. My experience is that it has been anything but friendly.
Also just as hostile to women as reddit, sadly.
Found the woman
Please no crucify.
I honestly wouldn't give those people the dignity of calling them leftists. They're too concerned about cosplaying as activists and dunking on people to actually give a shit about advancing the rights of real people or trying to protect anything good.
I see comments like this, complaining about tankies, more often than i see "tankies".
On the occasion politics comes up, and i say anything socialist, I'm jumped on by people who seem either angry or smugly dismissive of the notion of people organising.
Dude is a Canadian landlord. But I guess since the right wing has literal nazis now, anything left of that is 'pretty left leaning'
Hey, I better not be seeing any disrespect for landchads here. Now you add 5% more rent to this month's tip, hear me, rentoid?
It's shit like this. I'm just a normal guy, I have a job, kids, hobbies. I believe in less military spending, national healthcare, social programs, and support for our vulnerable population. I got into real estate because it seemed like a good investment. People on here make it seem like anything that doesn't fit their idea of "left" or"socialism" just be part of the conservative machine. Jesus, my investment decisions are not politically motivated. I made the mistake of trying to be part of a discussion and ended up with someone telling me I'm garbage and that I should give my investments to the tenants. Lol.
Being a landlord is a deliberate choice to make money through other people's work.
It's welfare for the rich.
That's not to say you, or any specific landlord, is evil. It's just an evil thing to do. If you don't live in the house, you have no business owning it.
Unfortunately the same could be said of the stock market. When it comes to financial planning for retirement or longer financial stability, one can choose between real estate or the stock market (among other choices).
I think the real issue with property ownership is having some reasonable limits and regulations. 1) no foreign investments in certain home types, 2) a cap/limit on the properties owned by any individuals (or LLCs they are associated with), and most importantly a complete ban on corporations owning residential properties.
Sure we could transition into removing real estate as an investment vehicle, but unfortunately I really can’t see a realistic path to this.
You seem to think I wouldn't agree there, too. Yes, the same could and is rightfully said about the stock market.
And that is an indicator of a poorly planned economy.
I mostly agree, but I'd go even further. A single law:
TL;DR abolish private property.
Right above! You may call that unrealistic, but the only wrinkles are rich bastards being upset they can no longer leech. I don't believe that worthy of consideration.
And honestly, today I agree with you (although I think there is some merit in a rental system as some people prefer to rent). I haven't bought a property for 15 years and I see what the younger generation is going through. If I knew then what I know now, I would not have purchased rentals. But at the time the real estate market was much different. Hell there were decent properties for sale for 70k back then.
if you agree then why aren't you getting out of it entirely?
Honestly? I went into it as an investment, from a capital appreciation stand point I have done very well. I've mentioned in another post that I basically charge minimum rent (30% below market). When I had kids I thought the properties would provide decent income for the kids so it would supplement what they earn in the long term. But then one of my children ended up with a life long disability. My properties are in a condo/town house community close to many amenities. It's very possible they may end up living in one of the properties while the other parts for their expenses. If I had wanted to get out I would have done so last year. But as it turns out I may actually need the properties to ensure my kid doesn't end up as a disabled homeless person. So at the end of the day, I'm not interested in making money off the properties, I just cover expenses. It's probably who I've had the same tenants for 12 years. I literally don't even remember their names.
This is a pretty good explanation as to why. I feel for your kid too and I hope you do end up just letting them live there so they aren't homeless as a disabled adult.
That kid sounds super lucky though. Other people's parents don't necessarily have something like that up their sleeve so when its time to be an adult- that kid just has no where to go or they keep living at home with the parents.
I get that you're not interested in making money off these properties but then you ended on
This is definitely part of why people don't like landlords and you're gonna keep getting shut down with the brunt of the argument.
The only time I had a landlord that knew my name was one that I was already friends with beforehand. Otherwise it's a purely transactional relationship. And people don't like financial relationships. They're disingenuous. And they lead to statements like "I don't even know this persons name"
Like those people are just nobodies to you that you get rent from.
I pay for a property management firm to take care of all the problems that come up at the properties. They are the ones who originally found the tenants. The houses are in a different city, I guess I could reach out, but my life is busy enough. It is purely transactional at this point. But after 12 years I am guessing it's at least acceptable. I do find it interesting the hate that landlords get on this site. I mean I used to rent and never had an issue. But back then renting and owning worked out the same after 30 years if you invested the difference between your rent and monthly house expenses. That sadly isn't the car any more.
Yeah, part of the reason for the hate is because its a purely transactional relationship.
You're not really helping someone by renting out a place to them through a company. And its a low bar to set if you think "oh well at least they are not homeless"
My tenants get 30% below market rate on rent. They get 24/7/365 access to maintenance calls for any issues. Every 4 years I renovate a room of their choice. I never get up on their business. Anyone else would say they have the best deal going. But here on Lemmygrad I am still the bad guy because of an investment I made 15 years ago, and decided to maintain in order to ensure my disabled son has a home. I respect your opinion, but I'm done defending myself on this site. No one here lives in reality. It's almost comical. You have a great life. I sincerely hope whatever you are looking for in life you find. Cheers.
Utter bullshit. The only reason people rent instead of buying is because prices are too damn high.
And prices are too damn high because of landlords. If you are both problem and solution, your job needn't exist.
It was exactly the same, only cheaper. And it was the flood of landlords buying when it was cheap that led to prices getting higher.
People like you are the reason this problem exists.
You at least deserve credit for admitting this.
There are many European families that I know in Canada that are financially able to buy but choose to rent.
Then you know many fools.
Some people like the flexibility, some may not be in the area long term, some may believe the stock market has better potential. In our free market type society, that is their choice. You can rail against the status quo, but whether you like it or not, it's the current reality. As shitty as it is.
Such a pointless statement. Also, "it's their choice" is massively overselling it.
I agree but what you chose to do effects the lives of others. You're participating in something that is built to hurt people for not being as lucky as you are.
Agreed, especially in today's market. It wasn't the case back when I bought the properties. 15 years ago, it was a renters market. Landlords were under pressure, but cheaper prices and low interest rates made it feasible. My first house that I bought was cheaper per month than the apartment I was renting previously.
I just said I knew they were present, I didn't say I specifically had a problem with them. I personally think that we're don't have enough unions. Any time corporations are against something, that usually means it's good for employees and the environment. (I have no particular opinion on people's political notions). It's sad that people here on both ends of the political spectrum can't voice their opinion without being jumped on. Honestly it's worse than Reddit.
I've had several people here already tell me (directly or indirectly) that I'm really a Trump supporter in disguise because I dare criticize Biden and centrists don't exist. But that isn't a problem specific to Lemmy, and the sites that aren't like this are alt-right "Ultra MAGA" cult sites that I want nothing to do with.
The left has turned into the fascists they pretend to despise
Absolutely. If you can't look at your own side critically, you're in a cult.
Anyone who supports Biden isn't left wing, especially if they get mad at your criticism.
The left has a lot to say about Biden
GOP/Russian/Qanon propaganda everywhere
lol i put up a post on here and people analyzing it from a "socialist perspective" the thing is i thin kits limited to certain cats [what u call communities] lemmy is like america 1790s, all kinds of people comign in here, some of the rejects from other countries, some criminals, and some opportunity seekers
You allergic to being correct or something?
I find Lemmy to be an echo chamber more than Reddit was. Depends on the community but Lemmy can be pretty caustic if you don't agree with something.
That being said, is fine there is different opinions. Creates discussion.
Honestly, the fact that Lemmy displays upvote and downvote counts (like reddit, at least with RES, used to) makes it a lot friendlier. If you say something unpopular, better to see +10/-4 than just -6 - if you're saying something unpopular but true, at least you're seeing some positive reaction.
This alone makes it worlds less toxic and less circlejerky. People won't automatically groupthink themselves into disregarding you if they realize that your comment was divisive instead of wrong.
+15/-45 gets that across better than -30
YouTube/Google also made this mistake. Or, I'm sure it is tested to make some KPI look good. But, certainly not the ability to discern "is this video garbage/scam" at a glance.
Sure, I'm clicking more videos to find a relevant one. So, probably "increases engamement", but also reduces my willingness to pay for the service. But, I suppose it's mostly driven by ad impressions.
And when you know it's going to be unpopular, that +1 feels better than the -12 feels bad. You got through to someone!
This must depend on which app you're using.
Sync just shows the total, I'd prefer if it didn't show at all.
Haven't used Sync but I bet they carried a lot of the UI stuff over from reddit and didn't update that. Default web UI for lemmy shows the up and down.
I'd say less so. There wasn't much by way of disinformation campaigns and bots back when Reddit first started so the posts and comments felt more genuine and organic. Even with Kbin/Lemmy being much smaller, there's still a ton of weird shit that gets posted here or comments that feel really suspicious. It would be nice for that kind of environment to make its way back, but it seems those days are over.
Yeah 100% When I joined I saw so much weird pro China and Russia comments, veiled but there. And no one would disagree! To me it felt like trying to influence newcomers and it was more insidious the way it was presented. Nothing like the dumb trolls I was used to seeing on reddit.
Yeah it's such a weird vibe here, and honestly, if it doesn't change, I think it's going to be what dooms the platform. This version of it, at least.
It's this super far left melting pot of western progressive talking points that are also somehow pro Russia and China.
Not saying that these are necessarily mutually exclusive views, but to most Western audiences, you're holding views that are (again within a Western frame of reference) simultaneously far right and far left...which is most likely to be polarizing enough to just annoy or piss off most casual users.
That's what was so fucking confusing to me. How can you go so far left that you are now praising current existing authoritarian governments that are hurting their own citizens and spreading it farther? Ukraine, Hong Kong, those are very fucking recent but even more shit happened in a lot of living memory with these countries.
Then I realized. They just chose the name far left. It sure as shit has nothing in common with what I believe a lot of us consider being left as; putting the well being of a citizen and social/environmental/etc progress above profit.
This is especially bad due to certain instances. It wasn’t so bad on Reddit where they usually limited themselves to a few subreddits, but it’s really off putting to see the nonstop propaganda they spew. So glad LW defederated with that instance.
Dude when I joined it was everywhere. I don't know if they were other instances or what because I was still learning the system and app I'm using (and app may not have even specified at the time everything was new) but I was HEAVILY considering leaving the site based on what I was seeing. And that .ml was run by ccp supporters. I saw completely unrelated subs (still don't know what to call them) even tho they were LW have in their rules no negative comments about CCP. They weren't even political subs. That's when I was like fuck it, I'm speaking up when I see it. I have people I care about directly impacted by this shit. I'm not tolerating it. Thankfully it is much better now at least on LW. idk about elsewhere
I had someone go off on me recently because I talked about how I never see the term "tankie" anywhere but on Lemmy.
I blocked them because they just became so fucking unhinged it wasn't worth responding to anymore.
I actually tried to find it in your history because I wanted to see how unhinged they got.
I am just going to gently say this, tankie rhetoric isn't really "politics" in the same way things can be in the west. They are praising, defending, and supporting governments that are hurting their own people to this day with authoritarian control and having citizens report their neighbors for any anti government speech or behavior.
I understand this is not a subject that everyone is aware of, especially with any nuance, so no judgement or anything I just wanted to elaborate in a kinder way than what you had. It isn't weird at all you have only seen tankie on here so far, and of course you're free to still be annoyed by it but please understand the context of why people are passionate about it! That's all. I am sorry you weren't treated with more tolerance though.
To some, it would sort of be like saying I don't care what isis is doing or that girls in the middle east can't go to school and honor killings are a thing in some places, cuz that's politics.
Wait. How is it not politics when it has to do with governments? Is there some kind of language barrier going on with the the term "politics"?
Yeah I didn't think it was weird either. But I don't appreciate sharing with people to have them throw it in my face.
so that's politics but not the tankie stuff that has to do with governments? This is the part that is like, really odd to me.
Hmm I think you misunderstood me! I was giving an example of other things that might also be interpreted a certain way if it was being discussed and you said you're not into politics.
So, I mean yes, literally all that is politics. In a casual conversational sense though people usually mean they don't follow the smaller stuff, elections and bills in congress and what the president is up to etc. Almost EVERYTHING is politics to some degree; gay marriage, education, drug use, mental health, wages, osha, privacy protection, healthcare, etc. When the context is about human rights violations/disenfranchise people it can come off cold and callous to say you don't care about politics, essentially that you don't care about people hurting. Especially online where the person you're talking to could not have the luxury to not care because it impacts them or someone they love. It may be more accurate to say you don't follow politics and so you were unaware.
I hope that clarifies my explanation better!
Yeah, there seems to be different definitions of politics going on here.
Yeah cause one is what it means literally and the other is what it means within the context of a social situation.
If we were in the middle of ww2 before America joined and you said you don't care about politics when the subject of the war and holocaust was happening people could naturally be upset and offended by that.
I mean, do you have any opinion at all on roe v wade being overturned?
yeah I wasn't a fan of that happening.
Me either. In fact I would be pretty confused and angry if I was having a conversation about how much it sucks and then someone chimed in that they don't care about politics. Confused and angry because don't they know people who this hurts? Realize that it's hurting children? AFAB who endured SA, including children??? Etc.
Now if someone said I don't pay attention to politics so I wasn't aware of it and I'm not aware of any nuance of why it's bad, that's more understandable. Ignorance vs potential lack of empathy. That's the difference between the two phrases and if you do care about some of these issues that happen to be political crosshairs rn, maybe now you can understand how that statement can be interpreted different ways based on context of the conversation and why you might want to adjust your phrasing if that is not the message you intended.
Does it make sense now?
I don't care anymore.
I'm sorry I was such a burden to you trying to answer your question that it warranted such a rude response.
And the ddos' n child porn aren't too nice either
hey I'm doing my best to be rude, scabulous, irascible and misanthropic out here.
There are antibiotic creams for scabulousness these days, how advanced is your case? 🧟♀️
Ed Sheeran level. He's too far gone
/j
ha. typo. I meant scabrous.
My dick looks like a pepperoni pizza.
We appreciate your work.
I was around when reddit first started. There were Nazis. It seemed fine, because Nazis were useless idiots, and people told them to go fuck themselves.
Reddit in 2016 actively helped install a fascist who eventually tried to overthrow American democracy.
Reddit now is a place where "fuck off, Nazi" is punished more reliably and more harshly than being a goddamn Nazi.
This service feels familiar - but not for the reasons I'd like. The fools in charge of every popular instance think scolding "be polite!" and punishing rudeness instead of trolling are a force multiplier for trolls. If you can just keep saying dumb shit until someone says a no-no word - they get the boot, and you win.
I want a forum where "here is why you're an asshole" is moderated based on whether the explanation is correct.
I actually got told by Reddit Staff that they'd contact law enforcement if I made anymore references to "punching Nazis", then they banned me for "Report Abuse"
They never did a damn thing about the trolls who kept flagging any post referencing me being trans or anything positive about transpeople as "Suicidal" or "Promoting Self-Harm"
Got those "A redditor has asked us to reach out to you concerning...." all fucking day.
The worst sin of reddit mods was demanding "report and move on!" and then never doing anything about reports. Or scolding you for messaging the subreddit instead of using the report button.
Either do the fucking work or let people talk.
The worst part of that is they started banning people for "Report Abuse" even though I checked, "Report Abuse" is not even mentioned in the TOS.
How the fuck, are you gonna tell me to "Report and move on", if you ban me for reporting.
Incidentally, guess why I had to stop using Reddit....
They banned me for very obviously joking that someone else should punch the fascist attorney general of Indiana in the face and it was some sort of punny reply based on something he said. They only reinstated me because a bunch of mods from multiple subreddits took my side.
They ban for "won't someone rid me of this turbulent priest" comments apparently.
You understand that idiom, but not 'go on, make my day?' Even when it's patiently explained to you?
What?
https://sh.itjust.works/comment/2673505
You didn't say "go on, make my day" there. That's a lie. That phrase doesn't even appear. What a bizarre thing to lie about when anyone can just look.
It's in semiquotes because it's paraphrasing. Jesus. This level of rigid demand makes sense if you're on the spectrum or ESL or something - otherwise, what the fuck?
I said 'Go on, tell me this one's synecdoche.' (Again: paraphrasing.) You said 'It is synecdoche, though.' I said 'Correct. They both are.' And then you started litigating like I'd insulted you, or contradicted myself. Even when I directly paraphrased what you wrote, to agree with it.
You missed a common idiom - had it laid out for you in detail - repeatedly took offense over nothing - and I'm guessing reported it. So I'm a little surprised to see you elsewhere in my replies, frustrated at overzealous moderation, when it's your indirect implications in question.
You're wrong about those too, by the way. "Turbulent priest" comments are a call to violence. That line was prototypical stochastic terrorism. Not directly saying "kill that prick" - but clearly communicating that you'd like that prick killed. Even in the twelfth century people recognized this was a flimsy excuse.
You're really worked up about this, but you might notice that the moderator also didn't understand your "common idiom" and told you to explain yourself or shut up. Funny how you left that part out.
I did explain myself. That's why I'm asking: what the fuck?
What was I supposed to do differently, here? What on Earth did you expect? Is there any sequence of words where you'd go, 'oh, sure, I get it?'
For god's sake, I didn't leave it out, it's why I said I assume you reported it. It's the whole reason we're having this conversation. You don't get to leave these short-ass replies and pretend proper discourse requires all possible details to be covered.
I don't expect anything. You're the one attacking me for not supposedly not knowing a phrase which you then said wasn't the phrase I didn't know. Much like in the other thread, you're not making much sense, but you are needlessly aggressive. I have very little patience left for it and will block you if it continues.
It's not an attack. It's the explanation you asked for!
What else could you want?
Oh, I got that once. What's the idea, I don't get it ?
There's a negative stereotype that Transpeople kill themselves all the time, studies have shown this number to be dropping and the suicides to be caused by abuse from others and denial of transition related care.
The Far Right ignores this and goes "Lol transpeople kill themselves because transpeople dumb"
So it became a thing to report anyone Trans on Reddit, for "Suicidal Behavior", which Reddit never looks into the validity of, they just send you a bunch of suicide hotline links... which is well intended, but there really should be a mechanism in place to find out if they're trolling.
Eventually when it became common knowledge that it's so exploitable it became a more in general method of griefing others.
I got an account banned from Reddit for saying "the only good nazi is a dead nazi" and frankly I'm fine with being banned from any community that doesn't agree with that message.
You had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
you can install a fascist?
can you uninstall one too or?
I feel like political discourse didn't start on Reddit until after subreddits were added
Haha, no. There's a reason /r/Atheism was one of the default subs. All that Ron Paul didn't come out of nowhere.
They say Atheism is to having a religion in the same way that not having a car is the same as having a car.
The same cannot be said of r/Atheism, the most dogmatic place on the whole fucking internet.
Big '/r/Politics is just like /r/Conservative!!!' energy.
Shut.
Indeed.
It's already like that here, friend.
Lemmy might be friendlier on the surface but has a much stronger hivemind-y aspect to it where you agree with it or else.
Lemmy didn't take off until well into May 2023, despite being online and open source for over 4 years. The quantity of posts, communities, comments was very small for 4 years online.
Then everyone flocked out of hate and anger of an API money matter with Reddit.Then crowds got hate-filled and angry when Threads was launched by Meta/Instagram/Facebook on July 5. And crowds became hate-filled and angry over Elon Musk rename of Twitter to X on July 23.
Outside big growth in memes and shitposts, there haven't been big numbers of people flocking here out of organic goodness on organized topics. It has largely been a HiveMind of hate as a motivation to come here since May.
Some good seeds have been planted since May, but the atmosphere of hate motivates change is pretty much Mob Mentality / reactionary.
Your timeline of events is intriguing to see and makes sense to me, even if I had a different experience. Thanks for that.
Definitely, you can also see that on certain communities, there are very strong opinions which don't allow for discussion.
Say anything that goes against the grain and you will be shunned immediately.
Also - not that that is always a bad thing but Lemmy is extremely left leaning and you just can't discuss certain topics here at all.
(Guns are always bad / Cars should all be banned and traded for bicycles / traveling by plane is bad and you should feel horrible for destroying the environment..)
What I enjoyed about early reddit was the tech/nerd focused community that did not try to push their political opinion into every thread.
Basically the worst part of reddit is already here, just that the echo chambers are smaller for now.
Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about it.
As someone who was on Reddit when it was young I am going to disagree with you here. Young Reddit was absolutely full of political ideology. It was a Ron Paul, legalize weed, atheist, soft anti feminist, cypher punk, USA style libertarian pool of ideology.
All places have an ideology. We are all constantly swimming in ideology. It’s just when an ideology matches you (either you being molded by the ideology or you joining a place with a matching ideology) you don’t notice it. A fish only has to think about the medium it is in after it is pulled out of the water.
It's funny that I wasn't even on reddit back then but I remember that time and the kind of people who existed back then and they were definitely redditors.
It's why Reddit Enhancement Suite was so valued on desktop for its filtering abilities and third party apps.
And the longer people used the reddit the more likely they were to avoid going to /r/all and unsubscribe from most if not all default subreddits.
Filtering is becoming just as important on the fediverse.
How is Dorothy going to make it to Oz if you're hoarding all the damn strawmen?
Indeed. Watch me attract downvotes. *ahem*
Linux sucks, and Windows 11 is a great OS.
I respectfully disagree with you.
Very funny.
🐧Must... DOWNVOTE... BLASPHEMY!!! /s
I do like to debate. I try not to use the downvote button if someone has caught my interest enough to engage.
I, too like to debate, and I do invite people to disagree with me if they can discuss in good faith. Easier to do in some communities than others.
Honestly the lack of content helps people mellow out.
I like the fact that I'm not doom scrolling and being fed rage bait by algorithms. I also like the fact that I'm reasonably sure most people here are actual people and not bots or paid actors.
my experience so far is people are as, if not more toxic then reddit. honestly I feel like half the people here were sick of people blocking them on reddit and decided to attack people with their stupidity here instead.
If you're reading this, please go back to reddit, they need you so much more over there.
This is my experience as well, lemmy.world has been quite toxic IME.
Report those being toxic. We are quick to react.
You have no idea what you’re talking about, if you think people here are bad you must be the most fragile little snowflake who ever lived.
Go curl up and jerk off in your safe space.
/s for those who weren’t sure.
Now my safe space is filled with cum
Ur toxic
:-P
The vast majority of people on Lemmy right now are directly from Reddit and they act exactly like the bog standard Redditors they are. Stop deluding yourself.
Who are you interacting with that has been so lame? I'm having a way better time in these comnunities than on reddit.
Anything even vaguely political is a shitshow since people are just as toxic as on reddit, but there is way less moderation
I think it depends on the instance.
You know, I've felt there's a sizable difference now in the kinds of discussion you tend to see depending on your home instance. Lemmy.world really feels like Reddit in both good and bad ways. Lemmy.ca is cool with local news and a smattering of other communities. But I what I really love beehaw.org. There are few places like it, and I hope if people join there, they don't bring their Reddit tendencies with them. Slow down a bit, think of each other and enjoy real, thoughtful discussion.
You can use the wayback machine to see how Reddit was at any point in the past. I was there from even before subreddits were a thing, and yeah it was pretty great. The fediverse does have a bit of that feel.
In 10 years we'll look back on this early Lemmy period with the same nostalgia, and wonder how Lemmy ever got so shitty.
Nah - it’s pretty shit already. I wasn’t on Reddit at the absolute beginning but I did clock in 12+ years. This is more like the end of Reddit - only split into several servers.
At least we aren't all competing to make the highest voted dumb joke or pun on every single post yet.
I actually liked that part, on most of the subreddits i used to go to they outlawed jokery. It was a very serious and sad place, mainly people just complaining and getting triggered by topics that weren't that serious, at least to me.
Sure
In the Fediverse, it’s much less disruptive to migrate to a different platform if one starts to get shitty—so hopefully reddit-like situations can be avoided before they recur.
Lol no Lemmy is just as bad as Reddit
I left reddit for lemmy and have yet to have the same experience here that I did on reddit.
Not in my experience.
wait, warm? cuddly? can you show me this magical fairy-tale corner of lemmy?
Warm and cuddly until you say something negative bout China or Russia, then they come hauling ass..
I could never understand how you could be attached to china's government that intensely. their government has fully betrayed communism, so extensibly that tech giants with no public control, (control the public instead) are fully formed.
Edit: i forgot my original intent but I do want a discussion and not just a roast of led astray MLs.
LLMs, useful idiots, and a couple effective propagandists overseeing the whole thing.
And you are correct. Capitalism with beasty grin.
Yeah they're a pretty fucking braindead group.
Putin is a militant pensioner from St. Petesbugrg garages. Fuck Putin.
Well, technically it is not negative about Russia. And I think I've yet not seen trolls from Olgino(or whereever they currently are)
Or say something in support of conservative American policies. Or say something in support of organized religion.
im a woman of taste, i like butt they can haul all they want, see if i care
Warm and cuddly right here my friend. Lemmy give you a hug!
now thats an attitude i can respect virtual hugs can work
Lemmy just point out that this comment is underrated.
You’re underrated!
!mylittlepony@lemmy.world
Where are these warm and cuddly people? If you express viewpoints that are not central dogma to the left of center folk, you're just as ostracized here as you would be on Reddit.
I'm left of center and I get yelled at by a communist at least once per thread I engage with, on average.
I'm at a point where I'm just blocking them as they pop up.
Yeah, it's much worse here.
I'd argue that it is actually more so the case here if anything.
Not to leave out mods deleting posts altogether here.
I feel Lemmy is like reddit without the normies making this infact more reddit than reddit
I miss the 'normies', I interact with enough tech people in my daily life
I block almost every tech community and tech is still 50% of my feed here
This is exactly how Reddit started too. It was the digg migration that brought in all the normies.
Others credit the GameFAQs forums closing. Which really tells you how long reddit's been around.
A bunch of websites circa 2008 basically won the internet, and would be dominant essentially forever if they hadn't all started lighting themselves on fire circa 2020. Apparently because of interest rates. I am no ardent anti-capitalist, but I can definitely say, this specific arrangement has been thoroughly fucky, and its collapse has been deeply stupid.
Digg collapse was very similar. Digg was very clearly the "winner" at that time in terms of user numbers, but killed themselves in a very similar way as Reddit does now.
The word enshittification didn't exist at the time, but the concept predates either website. It nearly predates the web. Stop talking to each other and start buying things.
This is just how it seems to go, before reddit there was Digg, after Digg went down, everyone went to reddit, now that reddit is going down, people are migrating to alternatives, with Lenmy being the most prominent one right now. I think Lemmy's ability to have multiple instances will help cement its popularity though
I'm not sure, i made a comment on the controversy over linus tech tips, basically there may have been miscommunication and we should wait and see before demonising anyone. But people took what i said the wrong way and downvoted me to eternity. It was quite depressing. I didn't say anyone was wrong or anyone was right. Just stated i'd been in a position before where people misunderstood my intentions so i understand how easily it can happen.
The lemmyverse, is rife with sock puppets. It's very easy to make a bunch of accounts for down voting. And brigading is easy here too, let's not forget we have a general population, we don't have specialized pockets really. So if something's generally unpopular, but is technically correct, it will get downvoted regardless because the general people outweigh the individuals.
Overtime we might have communities that require community reputation to post in, or vote in, like we saw on Reddit.
I just want to say waiting for more data is always the right thing to do, especially with any new internet drama, so I respect your position
Happend to me too. I've asked on a Post about modern slavery in London why they don't just go to the Police because I was really just curious. I was sure there was a reason why this was not an option but I couldn't think of any. And then I just got insulted and downvoted. After a few hours and a post asking why I get downvoted later, the tide turned and it got balanced out. But people can be real POS over here too. The Account insulting me was deleted after i reported him. Im not sure if He was just a Troll or an genuine ass.
I really can not stand the mentality behind insulting people who are asking questions.
I've even stated that I'm asking a question in good faith and being genuine and somehow people turn that shit into "you were insulting me by asking"
You was just Stallmaned. It is not lemmy-specific.
I was user 2600 or so on Reddit, and yes indeed it does. I just love this size. When I compare the content here and on Reddit, for me it's a world away now. The vast majority of things on here are relevant and interesting to me compared to reddit where it's all just low effort garbage and reposts.
The memes about site outages also reminds me of 2010s Reddit!
I feel like I'm the only person on lemmy who hasn't experienced an outtage issue.
Did I just pick the best instance or something??
My small instance had some instability while Beehaw was being botspammed in the random magazine. My instance's administrator explained that it was related to how Lemmy handles banned accounts in a very database inefficient manner. I think he also has an update not go as smoothly as anticipated once. But Lemmy.world being the largest instance gets the pleasure of discovering new scaling challenges as it grows
But, the big thing with the outages is I just went "oh okay, I'll just do something else then" just like the couple of times I experienced a reddit outage. I don't think it's as much a thing as the memes make it in both cases
Yeah, I still have yet to experience any kind of outtage and I signed up through Lemmy.today but I do see other people complaining about and they're not on the same instance as me.
And Lemmy isn't an echo chamber? Try posting any conservative opinions around here and see how many downvotes you get.
I don’t know if that’s fair. Contemporary “conservatism” is pretty indefensible.
How so?
Let's start to the Florida curriculum telling kids the good things about slavery and move on to objecting to giving schoolchildren free school lunches. Then there's the encouraging suicides of trans kids by taking away the one thing preventing that suicide. I can keep going if you like.
They have destroyed social programs and the middle class. Tax cuts for the rich drove up enormous, insurmountable debt. The war on drugs. There were no WMD’s in Iraq. Guns take precedence over kids. Due to voter suppression and gerrymandering, they are vastly overrepresented in government. They refused to let Democratic presidents appoint Supreme Court judges. They are okay with stealing migrant kids from their parents and hiding razor wire in the Rio Grande. They are broadly xenophobic, homophobic, and misogynistic. They support Putin…
And a bunch of “fuck your feelings” spoiled adult babies who can’t accept that their dumbass, tub-of-lard dipshit president lost tried to overthrow the government.
To be fair, the GOP has shifted so far Right, that conservative opinions nowadays are less "We need to be more fiscally responsible and try solutions outside of throwing money at problems." and more "So lemme tell you which minorities don't deserve rights and the specific reasons why they don't... the short version is it's all of them.. except my asian wife and my black friend... for now.."
That’s because all the dum-dums are still over there on Reddit. This place has brain cells and it’s awesome.
It's nice because you can talk to people, be heard, and be able to listen back. Of course I don't agree with everybody all the time, but in some communities it's cool to learn something you didn't know before.
Yup, based on the replies you got they're proving your comment Lemmy absolutely sucks when it comes to political circlejerk.
Here's conservative opinion for you: we should go back in how schools work because the less beaurocracy teachers deal with - the better they teach students. Also revert wage inequaloty where director eats-up half of entire budget. Go back to how it was in USSR.
Oh, you thought there is only one conservative opinion?
Uh yeah, people around here don't tend to accept bigotry. Anybody who espouses racism/homophobia can get out. Which happens to be most conservatives. It's not about being a conservative. It's about being a piece of human shit.
Even as I'm on the more left end, I'd say not all conservatives or right-leaning people are racist homophobic bigots, though. If anything, I'd say a sizable portion have a right-leaning non-discriminatory worldview, mainly economic.
Admittedly, as much as I'm preferring the fediverse, it is definitely an echo chamber, Lemmy included.
Lowering taxes for the rich and cutting social services does not tend to have good results.
Right-leaning economics does not make sense to me at all, beyond the emotional hook of "government stealing your hard earned money to give to lazy poor people on welfare".
But they still vote for homophobic bigots. If you sit at a dinner table with Nazis, what does that make you?
Nice bigoted comment proving his point!
The concept you're describing is called Eternal September and happens to all web services that get popular enough.
Real web service popularity has never been tried
Honestly, it's begun to feel more hostile and shady. Pretty sure the Russian trolls are here, but hexchan ain't helping either. I'm waiting for a client side instance block feature. We really need it.
I mean I or anyone coudl write one up easily with userscripts, but I assume you're wanting server side block, because thats just UI stuff, you may not see it but the server is still sending you their junk, which is what you want to stop. something simple like: cat_name{'nousers':list, 'keywords':[list of block keywords], 'blockalgs': [list of knownblockfilters] } and you send this to the server to fetch only the stuff you want
I'd like to block all users and posts from hexchan, exploding heads, and lemmygrad. I don't care if it sends the data as long as it blocks it from my UI.
What's that written in? Python? I need to learn Python.
if u dont care about receiving data, just learn HTML, css, and javascript. Take a look at userscripts and tampermonkey
Best option I've found so far is Connect for Lemmy on Android to block instances.
Memmy has the feature to block instances client side, it doesn’t seem to be working in the latest version. The list keeps clearing out randomly. Sadly blocking a user causes my version to just crash as well.
My Brother in Christ any online community will have toxicity as long as it has people
"cuddly and friendly" aren't the words I'd use, but I suppose it is better than the way you can get dog piled on reddit over the most stupid stuff. Also less people tend to accept bigotry here most of the time which is nice.
Still trying to settle into communities for games I hyperfixate on - they aren't very active currently, but perhaps if I put in my own activity it'll bring some of those communities to life, no?
One of the earliest comments on reddit when they enabled commenting was complaining about the addition of commenting-
https://old.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/17913/reddit_now_supports_comments/c51/
It's weird to think of reddit without comments
Dude fuck reddit. They ban/suspendel accounts for seriously petty shit and then give no recourse and you can't make new accounts. It's absolutely bs. Yes I am bitter but I am glad to have lemmy because it does feel like reddit but I don't feel so gauged by edge lord mods..... Well yet any ways.. got into an argument with a mod they reported me for harassment and I got banned.. I have tried to make new accounts and the get suspended. I tried VPN and then making the accounts and it worked for a bit, but then they suspended me again cause I commented on the sub I got in a fight with the mod on... Such bs
I got a warning for making a report on an automod comment and basically said the moderators are being oppressive and unjustly closing down comments. Five days later, I haven't touched reddit at all because I switched to lemmy and got a notification that I was banned from reddit because of the same report that I had received a warning on. I guess warnings on reddit are meaningless because you will still get banned or suspended even though it is the first "offense," which isn't hard to do when you tell mods they are jerks. I immediately used shreddit on my account and promptly deleted it with feedback that reddit banned me for a first offense that was a warning at first. Literal cancer of a site and glad to be rid of it. My life is better, and lemmy helps with communicating with the small communities I like.
I shared a link to my google drive with free and available to everyone PDF's of tabletop roleplaying game supplements and got banned for piracy lmao
Dude screw reddit.. I should have quit July 1st when they took away my boost for reddit 3party app.. but I couldn't stand FB discussion which is deluded with terrorist claiming to be Christians and Republicans... I can't stand the boners they get for any cop video... So I tried going back to reddit.. then the ban came.. I searched around and some how found lemmy.. and I am glad I did. I like it here better. I like that it's new too
Lemmy feels way more neckbeardy... because it is.
Lemmy hits different, especially when hexbear is around.
Hexbear users have been some of the most toxic I've come across
What's a hexbear?
They are actually pretty nice with each other, IMO. They do make fun of liberals a lot, but one should take into account that only very recently did Hexbear start to federate with anyone (so they aren't as used to having all of them in their posts, I imagine), and with a community so politically different from the wave of Lemmy newcomers (the old communities I think would have met each other better), I think it's only understandable that there would be some not so nice interactions.
I don't really have an issue with them being unkind, to me the zealotry is what's toxic.
Yeah they're very strongly opinionated.
Strongly opinionated, and unwilling to elaborate or have actual discussion about their opinions, just insults and accusations towards any disagreement, and I get the sense that they do this out of principle.
yeah, they remind me of /b/ from 2006
"toxic", "opinionated", "unwilling to listen", /b/
Just call them what they are: angsty teens.
Lmao thanks for the peek into that community
It's always nice to remember that the communist yelling at me is really just a hilariously fragile person acting out from their position of extreme privilege.
Hexbear is complicated, ive heard extreme good and bad from hexbear. I had a too extreme take that i really didnt like after i calmed down. Now i dont know.
It definitely feels that way to me. And it also felt like Reddit went to shit so slowly, I didn't even notice, like the mythical frog in a pot of water on a stove. It took me 13 years to break free. I hope Lemmy stays small to be honest. I'm old enough to remember the Eternal September on Usenet.
Sounds glorious.
Even if lemmy goes mainstream. I am sure there will be several instances that only federate with each other and not be federated with the rest of the lemmyverse, keeping the vibe lemmy has now and the early reddit vibe. Just have to find these instances and join them.
I don't know. I've already been seeing a lot of reactionary vitriol like you find on reddit.
Yeah it's more or less the same as current Reddit, just a smaller community. Bots and bad actors unfortunately exist in a way they simply didn't 10-15 years ago.
Yep, Lemmy feels a lot like reddit used to. A couple dozen larger subs, niche stuff in its infancy (but growing), general nerd interests, slows down to a crawl at night until users wake up in the morning.
I love it.
I've encountered more trolls, assholes, and general dickheads here on lemmy than I ever have anywhere else on the Internet, and I've been around for a long time now so that's really saying something.
Idk what's more frustrating: the idiots and assholes themselves or the fact I see threads like this every day talking about how awesome lemmy and everyone around here is (are?).
No...not really. It's just as polarized here as the rest of the internet.
The internet overall is a much more mature place, and basic literacy of using online spaces has grown immensely. I don’t think there is a good way to build new platforms that avoid including everyone these days. No more intrinsic filters due to necessary domain knowledge or access to the internet.
Asynchronous spaces will always be like this moving forward. It seems.
In my opinion, synchronous spaces will continue to grow in popularity due to many factors.
Lemmy can still be useful, federated online spaces are still worth sorting out and building.
I think you are pretty much right. Personally, I think Lemmy still has a lot of room to improve, even if unlike 1993 the internet has matured a lot. So long as the initiative to improve Lemmy is there, I'll stick around.
Screw you pal! 🤣
I ain't your friend, buddy
I'm not your buddy, guy
The comment section was so good in the early days. No memes at all. Just real conversation about the topic.
Aw yes, back in the good ole days 3 months ago, back when decent folk could make a livin' on lemmy without nary a care
This is a topic about reddit early days as was my comment
Oh right because in reddit early days toxic people didn't exist, got it
Yes thats correct.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk. Now go back and finish up your chores before mom gets home.
There are a lot more delicious beans here.
My brother, this is exactly what Reddit felt like in the beginning.
Not. At. All.
Nope, Reddit was very different back then. Lemmy feels no different than Reddit does now.
can confirm, this place is as much a shit hole now as reddit is.
God I hate redditors.
You wanna elaborate what problems you're having?
So far I share your opinion. So far..
A little bit easier than using the wayback machine:
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/
Here's some cuddles for you.
Upd: and more
Nope. Reddit in the early days was a place for free speech. I had a 15 year old account till I left. After about 2016 Reddit went full-Orwellian. And Lemmy.world has carried that tyranny forwards very faithfully. Just try and speak out against the narratives and you'll be silenced quickly. That's not what early Reddit was like AT ALL.
When people say "free speech" I tend to hear "call of duty lobby". In the early days of reddit, my experience is that it was mostly just tech people talking about PC builds and sharing Top Gear clips (how I discovered Top Gear). And of course, it was very easy to find abuse groups, fatpeoplehate, watchpeopledie, 4chan, etc.
I don't recall this mystical free speech bastion, because I don't think I see the concept the same as you. Sure, in the early days of the internet it was easier to be an anonymous abuser, but I have always avoided those communities.. and the reason they disappear is.. they're not popular places. They just collect butt heads until the butt heads think, " Yeah, everyone thinks like me! I'm a free thinker!" (In the limited scope of the butt head group)
But I mean, the majority keeps eradicating those spaces. At some point if your population continues to be sprayed with bugspray, maybe consider if you are a bug.