New evidence confirms COVID-19 vaccines are overwhelmingly safe
theglobeandmail.com
New evidence confirms COVID-19 vaccines are overwhelmingly safe::More than 38 million COVID-19 vaccine doses have been administered in Ontario as of Oct. 8, with 23,002 reports of adverse reactions, an incidence of 0.06 per cent, Public Health Ontario says
Also, old evidence confirms it.
I guess whatever it takes to convince the skeptics. Though I figure nothing will convince them once they've made up their mind.
I don't like calling them "skeptics," because what they really are is super-gullible with regards to conspiracy theories.
"Science deniers" is a better description.
Step 1. Ask what someone thinks about vaccinations Step 2. Ask them what they think about evolution Step 3. Ask about climate change Step 4. Ask about what church they go to
You will learn so much of this overlaps. So much.
Flat earth. Crystals. Cupping.
Anything to avoid the reality that we’re fucking up society and the planet in favour of ‘we can fix it with woo’ or ‘it’s preordained that we’re all gonna die in god’s wrath-fire’. Neither will lift a finger to fix things.
Nobody wants to live in reality because it’s scary.
There was real reason to be skeptical at first. mRNA vaccines have been in the works for decades and they had just gotten some that work well, then rushed it through. Drug companies aren't known for being conservative with claims when there's money to be made.
"I don't know... those first fifty studies of vaccine safety didn't sway me. Maybe 51 will"
Cannot use logic to convince someone whose argument isn't logical in the first place
I've always preferred it phrased as "You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into," but same energy.
I always preferred the Mark Twain quote, "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." Because I've been beaten bloody with that experience on more than one occasion.
Or: "It's like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are it'll knock over your pieces and shit on the board"
Or ‘Never wrestle with a pig because you'll both get dirty and the pig likes it.’ – George Bernard Shaw
Okay, if you say so, because I died six months after getting the first one like they said I would. Now I'm a magnetic 5G zombie.
What brand of vaccine did you get? I definitely get the 5G orders from George Soros and such (pretty standard stuff), and I was already dead inside before the jab, but I didn’t get any magnetism.
I got whichever one is most convenient to me winning the discussion about how vaccines are bad and give you 100 autisms.
Wait, only 100?
That's not enough for savant powers!
Better get extra.
You should get a refund then, im so magnetic it's not funny.
How's your reception?
Being a zombie, I no longer need a phone. But my Bill Gates microchip ensures good reception for all around me whose brains I am not eating.
You're very articulate for a zombie
It's the Bill Gates microchip.
Best of all, the chip also doubles as an electric guitar pedal.
Should have turned your phone off during the national alert test.
Did 99% of the population also die? I must have missed that.
That 99% lived in Canada and went to a different school. They were supermodels. You didn’t know them.
Ok, so I’m living in the last safe place on earth. Everywhere else the vaccine killed just about everyone but in my area nothing happened.
There was a 50/50 split in the US Senate when the vaccine came out. Every member of that group was vaccinated. They were the first members of the population to be vaccinated. If any of the ancient senators had died, the balance of power would have shifted in a huge way.
Now there's a great premise for a sci-fi, like something Dick would write
Seriously, I don't know why this is news.
Wait, yes I do, half the population is stupid.
Well, about 33%.
Something something think about how dumb the average person is.
54%
That number is too big :(.
Amazing what all the efficacy and safety studies said before is still true. It was true before, but now it's also true.
They’re not safe. They’re 0.06% harmful. That number is probably a lie too, in reality with all the cover ups and bad incentives the number could be as high as 0.1% harmful, that means 40% of cases were covered up or hidden by nurses and doctors who actively went against their hippocratic oath and did something malicious and counter effective to their job. And they don’t even clearly define what harmful is. How many of those 0.1% had mild head aches or nausea? Everyone is stupid but me.
/s
But in all seriousness I’m not sure if it’s better to admit that it’s not 100% safe because a lot of people think they will be the unlucky one out of 1000 to get a headache or a mild rash or the 1 out of 100000 that has something more severe. People who are generally anti vax have a hard time grasping these numbers and also seem to be completely wilfully blind to the increased danger from getting actual Covid. They think they’ll be fine and either won’t get it or it won’t be bad yet at the same time think they’ll be the unlucky one to get sick from the vaccine
I usually tell people that it's safer than birth control. 1 in 1000 women experience severe complications from birth control, and we hand that stuff out like candy.
So true. Sadly it's often those same types of people against vaccines who are against birth control as well.
I don't think that's making the point you think it is.
Depends on if people are willing to listen to facts of incidence of actual adverse effects from the vaccine or not, something like 1 in 2.6 million people will see adverse side effects (depending on source of statistic). Also depends on what health issue you're looking for issues with. But the overwhelming concensus is that the vaccine is safe. 1 in 1000 is orders of magnitude larger than the covid vaccine adverse effects.
The sound you're hearing is goalposts being shuffled around.
Sometimes the goalposts are moved and merged with goalposts from other conspiracy theories.
When 5g wasn't the end of humanity it became the trigger for a zombie virus....hidden in the vaccine!
Wonder what third thing will become the new first domino to knock over the 5g and vaccine dominoes.
Conspiracism is not truth-tracking. It's rooted in an emotional response to feelings of lack of control. By saying false things and getting away with it, the conspiracist feels greater control over their life. "You can't stop me from lying, therefore I have power."
Hence why authoritarians love conspiracism: authoritarianism promises that if you repeat the doctrine and smash the Leader's designated enemies (the "conspiracy"), you will regain the control that was taken from you. This also illustrates why "left" authoritarianism (e.g. Stalinism, Maoism) is really rightist: it does not actually offer freedom or equality, but rather rigid hierarchy and escalating falsehood and cruelty.
If you follow Nazism, Stalin, Hamas, Trump, or Netanyahu and smash the designated enemies who the Leader tells you have been conspiring against your nation ... you do not get freedom, you just eventually become the next enemy to be smashed. Of course really your Leader has built up the enemy to threaten you: authoritarians never seek peace, because peace removes the need to fear and hate.
(None of this is new. Orwell and Sartre both described it in the 1940s.)
This kind of inappropriately equates conspiracy theories and conservatism but I assure you that the anti-GMO, 9/11 Truther, and even the original vaccine pushback were not from the right
There's even crossover. The New Age/NESARA movement has a pipeline directly into Qanon, a movement at opposite views to NA stuff.
It's almost like those people are happily waiting for this type of panopticonic apocalyptic event to happen just to be proven right the only time in their entire miserable lives
Fundy Christians and the rapture in a nutshell
It's really loud! 😬
You mean ALL the republicans were lying this whole time? I am shocked! SHOCKED I say.
Guys the reason this study is important is because covid vaccines used revolutionary technology, they were the first to use mRNA based protein. If you remember we sequenced its genome within 40 days the making the vaccine was considerably easy. This is the main reason it took only 2 years for the vaccine to be made compared to years of development for other vaccines.
It also means that, with this new vaccine technology, we can develop vaccines faster and faster
Let's start the turbo-vaccine-printing-machine!
Pretty sure that mRNA printers are indeed a thing. But, you'll probably have better efficiency if you only use it for the template and use RNA-copying enzymes for the bulk of the work.
...erm, yes.... I concur 🧐
I studied this stuff back in uni, is really fascinating, though, I'm more familiar with DNA amplification via Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR).
If you're interested, I'll give some details here and a link to a neat video. Effectively, there is an enzyme in our cells called DNA Polymerase. It literally scans a strand of DNA and copies it. In PCR, they use a solution of nucleotides (building blocks of DNA) and the DNA Polymerase extracted from a heat-loving microbe. The DNA to be copied (amplified) is added, and then the temperature maintained at the enzyme's optimal temperature (higher than usual for other organisms). The solution is allowed to "stew" for a set amount of time, then, filtered to separate the DNA (lots of copies of the original) from everything else.
A similar process can be done using an RNA polymerase (possibly modified) in order to amplify mRNA. So, once the template is printed, it gets put in the solution and RNA polymerases go brrrrrr.
https://youtu.be/wJyUtbn0O5Y?si=Gkz8B87iY-35GvuZ
Very interesting dude, thanks for the write up and video!
You're very welcome!
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/wJyUtbn0O5Y?si=Gkz8B87iY-35GvuZ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
We always knew/suspected this. But the ones that do the fearmongering around vaccines will not be interested in facts...
Not just that, but a lot of them see it as resistance to authority, even if they don't think there's a serious risk. This is inevitably what happens when things get forced and mandates get imposed. It naturally causes people to push back against it.
No, this is what happens in a rigidly individualistic western countries like the USA, UK, and Australia where people act like children screaming "you can't tell me what to do!", even when it's just the health department asking you to stay safe.
There were no forced vaccine mandates in the USA, so I don't really know what you're talking about when you say that this was inevitable. Right-wingers just pretended that there was a mandate so that they could do performative resistance, but you might have noticed, there was no government-imposed punishment for refusing, just the natural consequence of drowning in your own sputum in the ICU.
Various employers imposed mandates, so there were mandates.
When neo-fascists try to impose things, that naturally creates resentment. All the people calling for mandates are the reason the reason why there was resistance.
Do you also think laws requiring you to wear a seatbelt is "neo-fascist?"
Not if there are multiple people in the car. As soon as there's another person in the car, it's not victimless.
Vaccines work when everyone uses them. There are a small number of people who cannot be vaccinated due to medical reasons. They rely on others being vaccinated. So when a lot of people who can take the vaccine refuse to do so, they put these people in danger.
Funny that of all things that US employers demand and impose, it's vaccinations where you draw the line.
"Fascism is when employers tell their employees what to do."
r/AntiWork in a nutshell
You've got yourself very turned around: the only reason there were talk of mandates is because we knew that, without them, people wouldn't get the vaccine. Fear of vaccines long predates any mandates. It basically started the minute the first vaccine was developed.
I'm not saying no one refused it because of talk of mandates, but the overall trend would be that without a strong incentive, some people would not get it, whether it just because of laziness, procrastination, or simply being on the fence about it.
Mandates increased the number of people who didn't get it. There's no reason for mandates.
Do you have anything to back this up or is it just how you feel?
Narrator: They didn't.
I wouldn't normally be the guy to jump straight to the conclusion that you are a Russian propagandist, but look at that instance name. Not even subtle.
Yeah, so much of it is just contrarianism. These people think that if they blindly reject everything that comes from an official source that they are substantially different than the people who blindly accept everything that comes from an official source.
Not just different, but better.
Experts have lied repeatedly and trust in them is at an all time low. If it wasn't for the talk of mandates, more people would have got the vaccine. Pushback is a natural consequence of trying to force things.
A completely vague statement - which is almost certainly untrue or a gross misrepresentation of reality - that basically justifies believing whatever you want. I've seen this plenty throughout my life, but it's become especially popular since the start of the pandemic.
Projection. I lie repeatedly so everyone else must also lie repeatedly.
Where’s that guy that turned into a Newt?
He got better.
Tom Paris?
WTF, I'm on my first watch of Voyager and saw that episode yesterday.
Oh boy, you're in for a wild ride with the Tuvix episode then.
Just don't drive really fast afterwards and you'll be fine.
He got better
I’m right here. It’s not as bad as you would think.
I don't know about you guys but I absolutely love the $5000 that is deposited onto my microchip every month! Helps so much with bills! Thanks Obama!
I'm digging that my 5g service gets upgraded every new dose 😎
What's the point of this? The people who already believe the vaccine is safe already know it. Those that don't believe it's safe aren't gonna read this OR the report. They'll claim it's some sort of propaganda.
It's important simply to do just for the benefit of science going forward. We need to look at the long term effects of medicines. Usually we do that prior to release. It also protects you from the propoganda. Someone may throw out crazy statistics at you but you'll have this study in your back pocket so you can be like "yeah it's crazy" and dismiss don't debate.
And try not to get too downtrodden with humanity. Not everyone is a too far gone. Some are just a little lost.
Exactly this. What's annoying is how people twist the process along the way.
For example, with the AstraZeneca vaccine there was this overblown controversy over blood clots. Every time you stick someone with a needle, their blood will clot, and there's a chance that a chunk of this clot will break off into the blood stream. Sometimes, the thing you're injecting makes it more likely to happen, and as such we closely monitor new injections to determine whether or not the issue is significant. AstraZeneca (or any other covid vaccine) has been shown to not significantly increase the risk of blood clots over any other injection - but that didn't stop politicians (eg Boris Johnson in the UK) to parrot on about the handful of people who did develop blood clots as if it were a real issue. Of course, this led to AstraZeneca no longer being offered as a vaccine for many people; instead, Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were used. Wouldn't you know it, Boris is personally invested in these companies. He shooed away the non-profit vaccine in favour of the for profit pharmaceutical mega-corporations that pay him dividends. And, of course, his statements actually reduced the uptake of vaccines in general.
Yeah, given how quickly alot of these were rushed out, due to the emergency we were in, there really should be follow-up research to prove their safety and efficacy. If only to provide additional evidence to anti-vaxxers who will argue against it. Even if the threat of Covid is seemingly behind us, who's to say we're not right back here in the next 5/10/20 years with the next pandemic that comes?
Some people have proposed that covid could become an endemic, meaning that there are always pockets of covid brewing somewhere. Annual flu vaccines could be accompanied with annual covid vaccines. If that really happens, we need to know more about the safety of the vaccine. Instead of being an exceptional emergency, it’s just “business as usual”, so proper studies are needed.
Convincing anti-vaxxers is impossible, because that conversation doesn’t follow the rules of a debate. Instead, the resulting monologue is a symptom of mental instability, and there isn’t much you can do about it.
I would be shocked if there wasn't follow-up research being done.
Misinformation works though. Antivaxer are rentlenless and they are always releasing studies to prove their lies. Combine that with social media algorithms that love controversy and this shit gets deadly.
To put it in perspective, the USA could easily have more people die of covid this year than fentanyl ODs but everyone is acting like the battle is over.
It's about noise. There needs to be more noise made that the vaccines are safe to protect future generations from falling down the same misinformation rabbit holes.
I like to be optimistic and believe every article erodes their confidence in "alternative medicine".
There are people who will state internet article's titles as facts. so it's good to fight misinformation by information.
Are Republicans still waiting for people who got the initial vaccine to drop dead overnight? lol.
As of my last count we've all died 7 or 8 times now, and if we didn't, next time for sure!
We were supposed to all die in the emergency national text message test a few weeks ago
What a surprise! who could have seen this coming!
I can almost hear all the scientists groan.
Why would scientist groan at data confirming previous studies?
Because it's obvious to them that it's safe and yet, due to the idiots in the population, they still had to do a study to "prove" what they already knew.
Fact is, mRNA isn't actually new. It's been used as a treatment for some things for nearly two decades before COVID. The remarkable part of the COVID vaccine is the speed at which they were able to adapt the tech to the new threat and produce a viable non-sterilizing vaccine from it. That shouldn't imply that research into a COVID vaccine has stopped, there may be a better vaccine that's possible, and I'm sure someone is working on that and I thank them for their work. The fact is mRNA was proven to be safe more than a decade before COVID-19 was a thing.
The main issue that the public has with it is that mRNA as a treatment or vaccine is relatively unused. The diseases/disorders that have utilized mRNA for treatment aren't the most common, and unless you were presented with mRNA treatment options if you're in the small group of people with the diagnosis that has an mRNA treatment option, it would be entirely new; and that describes the vast majority of people.
The information about it is out there, but Facebook research says that this is "brand new experimental technology" that has unpredictable outcomes, creating FUD, which is entirely based on nothing, because it's not unpredictable and it's not experimental. It's true that it hasn't been used in this application yet (at the time), and that the COVID vaccine was the first to use the technology for that purpose, but it's hardly new/untested/experimental in any way, shape, or form. The doctors and researchers who developed the vaccine did their due diligence, and ran test groups before releasing the vaccine to the widespread population. This was done on an accelerated timeline than what is typical, but it was still done. They followed procedure. The only thing that could be argued that was missing was a long term study to show any lasting effects over years, which they simply didn't have time for; but all evidence from the existing use of mRNA for treatments indicates that's also going to result in no significant issues as well.
They did everything right and some portion of the population screamed bloody murder about it, meanwhile the delivery method was tried and tested, and already proven to be safe, yet they had to do yet another study to affirm what they already knew. For anyone who is aware of what medical R&D is doing and what standards they are held to, the fact that it was safe wasn't even in question, but because some Facebook "researchers" decided it wasn't with no evidence, there had to be additional and unnecessary work done to "prove" something that was already known to be true.
Hence, groan.
Genuinely impressive how a vaccine made under the conditions and time constraints COVID faced is so effective.
That's because most of the groundwork in developing mrna vaccines had already been done for years and years. This wasn't "how do we invent a vaccine for covid?", this was "how do we adapt this proven, well-understood vaccine tech so that it works for covid just like it does for the ebola virus that we originally developed it for?"
There was also a large amount of money thrown at developing the vaccine because of the virus' significant economic impacts.
it's wild because it was a whole bunch of our money but somehow the vaccine developed with all of our money is still privately owned
Imagine if we had national bodies developing drugs to treat health problems rather than private companies developing drugs to make as much money as possible.
instead we have this amazing worst of both worlds where the public bears all the expense but one guy trying to make as much money as possible gets to make all the decisions and own the final product.
Thats the answer to the bit where they said "how do we adapt this proven, well understood vaccine tech..."
They've been developing it since the first SARS.
Edit: I was wrong, they started developing MRNA vaccines in the 1970s.
Come ON! This doesn't say the vaccine - which one? - is effective but would have low adverse effects.
Not astonished that you put people against this experimental product in the case of anti-vax despite them being vaccinated for other stuff.
I've been trying to read this comment for a while now.
Are you okay? Are you having a stroke? Should I call someone?
It's not hard. He's saying that this study makes no claims about effectiveness, but people are so programmed with the catchphrase "safe and effective" that they conflate the two.
great nickname
Totally not true, there’s …. Stuff. Dammit, the only thing I came up with to annoy the person giving me the shot was a one liner about improved 5G reception. And I used it twice: so cringey. Where are all the conspiracy nuts when you need them?
I asked for strawberry flavour
They're hopefully dead? https://www.salon.com/2021/09/22/breitbart-writer-says-democrats-use-reverse-psychology-to_partner/
Sadly they're right about one thing, most survive COVID.
Well, not sadly.
Anyone know where I can access the report mentioned? It doesn't seem to be linked anywhere in the article, nor cited by a searchable name...
Nvm, found it on the website for Public Health Ontario
If this is trying to convince skeptics, it'll do nothing. They'll go back to Nancy on Facebook and exclaim how they're putting 5G crystal-infused microchips into your body to turn you into a sky person. Literally nothing will convince the antivax.
My parents were both vaccine skeptics. Covid, and all of public consciousness and education about vaccines, convinced them both that vaccines are important. They got the shot and every booster available. Contrary to the common stereotype of vaccine skeptics, they are both highly educated successful people and when presented with solid evidence that their beliefs were moronic, they changed their thinking. It's not helpful to be so cynical, because people do change. I see people change their minds about things all of the time. Sometimes for the better and sometimes worse. As long as we remain cynical and unmotivated, the morons win.
Could we just say that all evidence confirms it?
What's even the point? More evidence isn't going to change anyone's mind.
That's how the scientific community works. Test and retest the theory. Unexciting results are still valuable to lend more credence to the established scientific understanding.
Also, more practically, recent studies are good ammo for disputes with nutter friends and family who still form their entire distrust on an article based on an intentionally bad take on a studys results from early on in the pandemic.
I hope that works for you, I've personally given up on them. They are welcome to make their decisions and we avoid the topic since we don't agree.
Yeah, I have lost causes for sure. I do have a couple more reasonable conservative friends that took a dose or two and stopped, so this is the kind of thing that might not fall on deaf ears
As long as there's any evidence supporting their argument, confirmation bias will make it impossible to change an antivaxxer's mind without un-indoctrinating them. The best most of us can hope for is preventing anyone else from falling down the rabbit hole.
This is just what goes on in medicine science when things are operating properly. Test, collect data, run experiments, do it again, do it again, then, after the short term use has been proven safe 30 different times, by 100's of research groups, you start researching the long term affects of it.
You'd be surprised. My sibling wasn't anti-vax but was surrounded by, let's say less scientifically-inclined people (artists) and didn't get vaccinated.
Talking over the phone I got my sibling to actually research the topic (actual publications, not social media "do my your own research") and finally decided to vaccinate.
Some people are probably mostly lost down the social media conspiracy/politics rabbit hole but some aren't beyond looking at overwhelming evidence and making a reasonable decision based on it.
I need to preface this by saying that I am in no way anti-vaccine, and this has nothing to do with politics.
But...
I got my last booster about 3 weeks ago, and I have been messed up ever since. Apparently there is something called Long Vax Syndrome that is currently being studied. Fortunately I don't have some of the worst symptoms, but the fatigue is so real. Normally when I would get a covid booster I would be exhausted for about 24 hours, but this is unrelenting. I've never been this tired in my life, and it's honestly a struggle. I am really hoping something comes of the research and they figure something out because I don't know how long I can sustain this.
If it is anything like long covid my symptoms went away after about 2 months. Hopefully the vaccine variant is not as long.
But by week three I was starting to feel somewhat better.
My "long COVID" symptoms are on month 16 and counting... they've gone way down, but still there.
Bless you, how many boosters have you had and do you have any other underlying health issues?
So I got my first 2 shots way back when. And I think this is my 3rd booster?
No underlying health issues but it might be worth noting that I got covid way at the beginning of the pandemic and I was hospitalized for a week. It was the sickest I have ever been in my life. I was sick for 2 weeks before I went to the hospital because back then it was next to impossible to get a test, and it took forever to get results back.
I don't know if I'm one of the few that is just voulerable to covid or whatever, and maybe because of that the vaccine has a chance to hite differently? I don't know. There's still so much unknown about covid, but I'm really hoping this fatigue clears up because quality of life is way down right now. It's been very difficult to work and take care of my daughter etc. Driving isn't safe... It's not great.
So.. long COVID then. The vaccine doesn't undo you having already had it...
Well I never had this after I got covid 3 years ago. So maybe I had some kind of resting long covid that got triggered by the vaccine? But not the other times I got the booster?
I don't know. I'm not a doctor or scientist. I'm just really really really tired all the time now.
sorry mate, guess you were the unlucky one. thanks for your sacrifice o7
Same here. Also not ant-vax in general, very much pro-vax for the big three and whatnot. I got 2 vax and a booster willingly, but got sick as a dog all 3 times and missed work each time. The fatigue was crippling. I also got covid twice anyway so thats a bummer, but it wasnt any worse than the post-vax sickness. Maybe the vax reduced the severity of covid, but either way I think Ill pass on getting any more boosters for tbe time being. Ive had plenty of flu vaxes and never had an issue with them.
I have no idea why you're getting downvotes on this. You're relating your personal experience, and it's clearly not an anti-vax type answer. Here's an upvote to help offset that.
I'm fully pro vaccine and I'm happy for these studies. Nothing wrong about getting more data and confirming or revisiting things based on said results.
Science is not afraid of being double checked.
Sweet
I just saw yet another Tim pool twitter thread with people talking about wanting assault vaccines be made illegal
As someone who used to watch him regularly, Tim Pool is an unironically evil person who will promote whatever you want for a paycheck. He has algorithmic psychosis. The Freedom Phone shilling is proof of this.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Previous research has shown the vast majority of cases are mild, patients recover quickly and risks can be averted by extending the time between doses.
That report provides extensive details about the serious cases, which included people who required a hospital admission or died, making it clear the vaccine was likely not the cause.
At the same time, a new study published by Canadian researchers found that babies whose mothers had been vaccinated against COVID-19 during pregnancy were less likely to experience serious health complications, be admitted to the neonatal intensive care unit or die.
The study, published this week in the journal JAMA Pediatrics, looked at data from more than 142,000 births in Ontario and followed infants for six months to determine their outcomes.
Sarah Jorgensen, one of the study’s authors, said the findings should provide reassurance to pregnant women that the vaccines are safe and can help protect their babies.
“Pregnant women and really young infants in the first couple of months, they’re also high-risk,” said Ms. Jorgensen, who is a pharmacist and a PhD candidate in the Temerty Faculty of Medicine’s Institute for Medical Science at the University of Toronto.
The original article contains 876 words, the summary contains 193 words. Saved 78%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
New evidence?
"Additional" evidence may have been a better word here. There is a ton of evidence of its safety. For so rarely causing complications compared to pretty much any other type of medical intervention, vaccines do get an insane amount of scrutiny to try and satisfy public phobias.
Because its proactive, not reactive.
Proactive care that works looks like it did nothing. Ape brain no understand event that no see happen.
That's probably one reason. There's just something about vaccines that makes people unreasonably paranoid though. I once saw a person about to get an infusion of a pretty dangerous immuno suppressing drug. They had a bad disease, it was worth the risks. They didn't seem all that concerned though. Before the infusion could happen there was a requirement to get a few vaccines. You know, to help prevent getting seriously ill while you're immuno suppressed. The vaccines won't work after the infusion, only before. Person fought their doctors for months refusing any vaccines before finally giving in, getting the vaccines, and finally getting the drug they need.
One of the biggest medical interventions for COVID was intubation. Having experienced unilateral vocal cord paralysis after being intubated for surgery and days after due to complications of the procedure - you really want to avoid it if possible. It took surgery and 18 months for me to speak normally again.
I'll take feeling crummy for a few days with low risk of actual harm to avoid that happening again.
I was intubated for short periods after some major surgeries and I don't wish it on anyone, thankfully I didn't have any issues after the fact like you did.
Did you guys know that bridges help people cross rivers?
I've seen enough bridge failures to know that they're all dangerous. You can't fool me - I'd rather drive through a river than take one of your so-called "safe" bridges. At least in my truck I'm in control, and my F150 with these snazzy AT tires and my belief in God can get me further than some steel and concrete "bridge" that some engineer in a lab cooked up.
No way! :O
I thought they were just cool sculptures.
What about their effectiveness?
I get that the first few versions might have stemmed the tide of the pandemic early on .. but how effective are the new doses now?
I'm not an antivacer but I do question the way the pandemic was handled and continues to be handled. I trust scientists, I trust the medical community, I trust our current level of knowledge and expertise ... I even trust our government to do the best they can with what they have ... I just don't trust seeing big corporate interests quietly influencing everything in the background.
I certainly don't trust anyone or anything that reprimands me or is threatened by my questions or concerns.
I would feel a whole lot better about all this if corporate and financial interests were completely disconnected from all our health care and pharmaceutical systems. Basically, anything that has to do with human bodily health should not be controlled or deeply influenced by monied interests.
Their efficacy has been heavily studied and proven.
This is straight-up weasel language. There is no (rational) question as to whether the vaccines reduced hospitalizations due to COVID-19, or contraction of COVID-19 in general.
This is not realistic in the slightest. Reasearch requires resources and the time and effort of highly qualified people.
You don't need to be so agressive.
OP didn't say that the vaccine didn't work at first. It's just that now development has a hard time to keep up with new mutations.
Also, we don't need multi billion dollar medical corporations to study and create vaccines. This could be done entirely through a government agency or ministry.
I agree with OP about how much we should trust corporations. Their bottom line is to make a profit and they'll do whatever they can to get there. They cut corners and hide facts to avoid losses.
One such fact that was denied and for which you could get ridiculed was that a certain percentage of the population that received the COVID vaccine had symptoms afterwards that never went away. Like constant headaches and swelling of the brain. Now they explain these to you before you take new doses so that you know the risks. They're small, but they can happen.
In fact, ever since my last dose in August I've had constant headaches myself and I always feel hungover. It's permanent. There's nothing anyone can do about it. At this point I wonder if I should have taken it at all considering the I've had so the previous shots before. I only took it because I was traveling for a couple weeks and wanted to increase my chances of not getting sick.
It's extremely realistic, humanity makes the most progress when research does not need to create a monetary benefit. It allows us to explore ideas unabated. While these systems need funding we could take a 1% from military spending and invest with government resources. Hence why the mrna vaccines actually progressed so quickly, they were already being researched by the army for quick and rapid treatment of diseases during combat, i.e. just to solve the problem not just to profit from the tech, they lent that research out and gave grants to the corporations who developed and manufactured the covid vaccines. Internet, developed for combat communications not for profit. Most computer innovations came out of the space race, research without a profit motive. The ideas funded by corporate interests revolve around optimizing profit, not progress, which is why we get planned obsolescence, lack of rights to repair, massive healthcare costs needing insurance offsets, etc. I guarantee you can't name an actual positive innovation that was spurred purely for profit and not bastardized in the name of profit from a century old idea people forgot about so the company could attribute genius to its wealthy founders crud copy and paste job.
I can agree and accept most debates about this and I probably agree with most of what you present. And I am vaxxed with six COVID vaccines at this point and chances are I'll continue taking them with a lot of skepticism.
The biggest issue I have is corporate control.
I agree that research and development requires money ... but that can be achieved through public funds and government programs. What do think is cheaper? Privately owned research that has to be paid for at a premium .... or publically developed research that is made open and accessible for other researchers across the globe (who can then collaborate with each other instead of compete behind closed source patents and information)
I trust the scientists and researchers that develop these medical break throughs .... I just don't trust the private CEOs that hire them or the corporations they work for.
Thank you for perfectly demonstrating how the antivax argument will evolve.
It's as effective as the flu vaccine. Get the version that addresses the latest varients, as previous ones may not be as effective against it.
Exactly. Some people get a flu shot every year. Now it's going to be a flu shot and a covid shot.
Virus evolves, scientists do their best to predict which particular variants are or will become most prevalent. Vaccinations are made and administered based on that data. Rinse and repeat.
There are times when the models are wrong or variants progress in unexpected ways. In those cases you might see a mid-year booster.
Vaccines don't guarantee you won't get sick, but they reduce the severity and time to recover if you do get sick with one of the relevant variants. They may even prevent the occurrence of most symptoms depending on the person. .
I didn't need a study for that. I mean we vaccinated ones are still pretty much alive, despite all the warnings of the dum-dums.
Whew!! That was a close one fellas. What if I knew that they were safe all along but I wanted to live on the edge?? (I got a vaccine shot 😔)
YOU CAN'T FOOL ME, STUPID ROUND EARTHERS!!!
In other news water is wet. Never had any doubt although you can't use science to convince antivaxers because they just don't care about facts or logic.
I dunno, I got another shot last month and I developed super powers. I flew too close to the sun and caught on fire. I blame the shot. /s
In other news, fire burns
Again? Seems like a waste of time to continuously prove it’s safe. Everyone who cares already knows, everyone who need to care, doesn’t give a fuck and lives in their own little wonderland.
Big pharma covering up the fact that 90% of the population died suddenly two years ago.
My wife is a front end manager and still probably won't get it. She has had people come in and try to raise Hell over unvaccinated employees, but from what I understand, businesses take on liability if they issue requirements.
Except the autism
You are gonna make me regret not putting a /s won't you?
I absolutely believe that in mass its safe. And I highly suggest others to get it. But I'm one of at least 3 people who had... a very specific and scary issue about 6 months after the first shot so for my own sanity I've not gotten another since the first booster. I don't like to spread it though, its not like 3 is numerically significant even if its 3 in the same area of a specific state.
Sounds like that area of that specific state is bad for your health.
That would be a more reasonable conclusion to draw from the anecdote you provided than anything vaccine related.
I understand what you're saying. Again, I'm not being specific. I don't want to be the reason something spreads online. Its just... I have my reasons. A specific experience.
You must know that being cryptic and mysterious about your issue just makes people want to know right? If you don't want anyone to know what happened, maybe just don't talk about it?
I dunno, I read their comments and now I have no interest in hearing them speak ever again.
Something, something, comorbidities...
Sorry, I forgot that only applies to COVID deaths.
Obviously people misunderstood. I'm very much pro vaccine - fully vaccinated and triple boosted.
I was making reference to the fact that anti-vaxxers were citing comorbidities in regards to COVID deaths to downplay the numbers while refusing to do so for deaths shortly after vaccination. This was especially galling in light of the fact that the first groups vaccinated were the most vulnerable: the elderly.
Great! Can we see the 10/20/50 year data?
I'm vaccinated, but don't pretend we don't find out problems decades later all the time. This headline is stupid.
I refuse to believe that lol
5% of adverse events requiring hospitalization is not exactly what I would call safe
That's 5% of the .06%. So over 38mil vaxed. 23,002 had any reaction. 1,150 had any major complications.
in one city, Ontario. And it's measured in doses, not people. Meaning that assuming people got duplicate doses, the complication rate would be much higher. I also imagine myocarditis is not always formally diagnosed.
With an adverse event rate of 0.06%. Meaning only 33 per million people required hospitalization.
It's 38 million doses, not people.
Those are the official numbers, but I've heard time and time again from people with vaccine damages, that they have to basically force their doctors to even report their symptoms, so I have my doubts how accurate it is.
some very trustworthy people are telling me you actually ate 32 live cats.
Okay, that's a nice way to acknowledge legitimate concerns. Or do you have the definitive information, that this doesn't happen? I know it's anecdotal, but still
The thing that increased anti-vaxx sentiment and theories of the vaccines killing you or whatever, was governments around the world going full fash with them.
If you don't take the vaccine, you can't enter establishments, you can't work, you'll be denied healthcare ahead of someone who has been vaccinated, fined if you don't take it (in the case of Germany) etc etc. If you want people to get vaccinated en masse, this is entirely the opposite way of doing it. It's no surprise that there's now been a decline in vaccine uptake in general.
That whole period when the vaccines first came out and the governmental coercion has actively damaged public health messaging for the foreseeable future.
You mean, they told people they couldn't spread a dangerous virus to others? How very "fash."
Fuck that bullshit.
If the vaccines completely stopped the virus spreading, this may have been a good point.
People die in car accidents despite wearing their seatbelts. Forcing people to wear their seatbelts while driving is wrong because it doesn't grant 100% survival rate.
👍
Ah, the classic "seatbelt analogy". Everyone's favourite vaccine analogy that makes zero sense if you actually just stop and think about it for a minute.
Go on.
I'm actually an excellent driver while drunk. Maybe some people can't handle it but, but I haven't had an accident once. The laws should be updated to make it legal since drinking and driving doesn't 100% guarantee you'll get into an accident.
Another ridiculous analogy.
Keep going, maybe you might get to one that makes sense.
you know you're actually supposed to provide counter arguments, maybe explaining your reasoning and thought process?
He can't though. Only allude to being able to.
How long a minute are you taking? It's been three years.
The whole period before about behaving responsibility and using masks showed you all you needed to know about how responsible and interested in the general wellbeing most people were so it only made sense to not leave it up to chance with that.
And it's not like anyone was forced - only other people were secured from coming in contact with irresponsible and self-centred people that couldn't care less about them
Here in the UK, during the first lockdown, social distancing and the like was adhered to do quite well. More so than the scientists and government expected. Mainly because it was simple instruction that didn't stop you from going about your business when you needed to get your groceries.
No, they were just told they couldn't participate in society. But then when they realised that the messaging wasn't working, they gave up on it.
Yes, when you pose a greater risk to society you do not get to participate in it. This has been true since the start of societies.
Do the vaccines work or not?
Because if they do, the unvaccinated are not a threat to you.
They are a threat to the ones incapable of getting vaccinated because of allergies, though.
"bUt MuH nAtUrAl SeLeCtIoN!!!"
I just don't want them in society. If they're unwilling to take the vaccine they probably also don't wash their hands after using the bathroom.
So your view is based purely on prejudice, rather than on fact?
Interesting parallel to an anti-vaxxer who refuses vaccines based on misinformation, rather than fact.
Yeah, not getting the vaccine is like not returning your shopping cart. It tells me everything I need to know about a person.
Mask off moment for this guy
Sounds like "forced" to me.
no, the only people forcing anyone to do anything are the anti vaxxers who want to force everyone to be around them.