Philips screws are awful. They strip if you look at them wrong. Flatheads should only be used on thumbscrews just in case you need a little extra torque from a screwdriver.
Torx and Hex are excellent.
I work on electronics and woodworking and Phillips are the utter worst of both of them. The thread lock in computers makes them easy to strip when unscrewing. The resistance of driving them into wood makes them guaranteed to strip when screwing. Fuck them.
The big issue I see with people driving Phillips screws is that they don't use a large enough driver size. Computer screws for example are Phillips #2 and I've never had an issue with them stripping.
I use the correct driver, I'll go through my kit to find the best fitting bit. It simply comes down to the fact they are designed to strip to avoid "catastrophic failure". Plus the fact that companies use intentionally cheap, soft screws, to make repair and service harder. Cough cough zinc screws on a $10,000 iMac (steel screws would have cost 25 cents for 10, zinc like 5 cents for 10, fucking ridiculous).
I read that the thing about them being designed to strip to prevent worse failure is just a myth. Or at least they weren't originally designed to. It said that the original patent never contained any feature for that. Wouldn't surprise me though if modern companies do use screws designed to strip to prevent disassembly/repair.
I think originally the screws would cause the driver to cam out and stop driving if a certain amount of force is applied but the screws are so soft and cheap that the harder driver damages the screw head when it cams out.
This and the centered shape that Philips and Robertson have were key. The lack of a sharp driver bit being able to slip out of the fastener prevented a lot of injuries.
However, Philips, at least, needs to go away.
I always figured it was intentional but for the other reason: screws soft enough that overtightening can't damage/crack the multi-thousand dollar components, the screw head cores out first.
That's great, but then you can't get your multi-thousand dollar component unscrewed anyway so what was the point?
It's also a design flaw that it's so easy to use the wrong sized driver and it will sorta work. It might be annoying that you have to have a set of different star drive or hex drive bits, but you're less likely to strip them.
Could be that it's not a Philips but a JIS. I didn't even know that JIS existed until a couple years ago. The shape is close enough to Philips to mostly work but make it super easy to strip.
Maybe I'm just being lucky but I've never experienced screws stripping anymore since I've started getting better tools for myself.
And in woodworking it can also help to pre-drill a hole using your smallest drill, before screwing a screw in. This also prevents the wood from cracking.
I've also seen wood screws that have some lubrication pre-applied.
The problem is, when working with electronics, you can have a great screwdriver but it won't help if the screws in the device are very cheap (and probably partially stripped already from someone opening it previously).
I swear I've had stuff with stripped screws right from the store.
I'll be honest that I've never really experienced problems like that before. I've had cheap screws and partially stripped screws. But so far I've always been able to open them with the right screwdriver.
But I believe you when you say you did and maybe you have a lot more experience than I do so I'll respect your opinion.
I haven't had any completely fail yet, but I've seen some come worryingly close. I don't really have all that much experience, but from what I've seen it just doesn't seem like the most reliable design.
PC fan screws come to mind because they are self tapping and a lot of people seem to not use the right screwdriver or don't yet know the trick of running the screws in and out of the fan one time outside of the case first.
Torx gang unite.
We had our 20 y/o deck repaired and stained last year. I was chatting with the overseer about what he was going to do and the topic of screws came up; he said he was going to use Torx, and only ever used Torx anymore - I just about cheered.
I'd been losing hope in humanity lately, but little signs of sanity like this, professionals finally getting rid of the hell-bits that are Phillips heads, lifts my heart and gives me hope.
I work at a big box hardware store, and I can confirm that almost all deck and structural screws are moving to torx. (much to the older generations dismay)
That's what a worker at my local Ace store said: they were slowly transitioning to Torx.
These days, all but the cheapest outdoor-grade screws in the US are torx, generally with a bit thrown into the box that, while cheap, should work fine for a few boxes' worth.
Freaking awesome. Better and better. We've finally fixed the screw heads, and pretty much also computer connectors (and small device chargers!) with USB-C. Just in time for the end of the world via total ecological collapse.
Great times.
I've heard that was more of a European thing, but the only two serious contenders are Pozidriv vs Torx for screws (and hex vs Allen for bolts).
I just checked my local hardware store's website, and out of the 176 kinds of 4/4.5mm screw boxes in their inventory, 74 are Torx, 55 are Pozidriv, and 38 are Phillips (ew).
Either Torx or Pozidriv is fine when used properly, however most DIYers don't understand the difference between PZ and PH and end up stripping their heads. Also it's much harder to use the wrong-sized bit with Torx than PZ.
So yeah, Torx wins in just about every category and other heads only get manufactured to appease old people and penny-pinchers.
That's one of my issues with Pozi - it can be hard to see the markings, and not everyone has great eyesight. I mostly object to Phillips-related screws because there are so many variations that mostly look the same and require a table to differentiate. And none have the torque-transfer performance of Torx. Plus, you can use a hex head in a Torx bit in an emergency and you don't much care about either the bit or the head.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a philips or slotted deck screw. I have and have purchased many boxes of these things and they've always been nearly 100% Robertson. Is this a US thing?
Yes, and you're Canadian. Robertson is the standard there, and while it's used in other countries, not nearly as much.
In the beginning was slotted heads, mainly because mass machining and casting wasn't good enough to have more precise forms. Then came the Great Connector Wars, and in the US the Phillips head won and was standardized; almost every house built in the US in the past 80 years will be built with these (and nails). Slotted heads are much less common, but you find them in various specific places, like where the heads are visible and you want to hide the screw as much as economically possible.
Canada, however, was smarter and standardized on the Robertson head; IIRC one reason for the divergence was the Phillips licensing cost. In any case, Robertson is superior to Phillips in most ways, except it's even worse to dig out if it gets painted over.
As machining improved, many attempts were made to improve on Phillips, which mostly amounted to polishing a turd; Robertson remained unchanged as it was already pretty good.
Then came hex, which is great except it's structurally pretty terrible for the head. Still, it can be seen as an improvement in Robertson, but not quite so good as to be worth all the retooling. Good enough that it's probably the second, or at least third, most popular head in the US.
Finally, someone did some fucking math and came up with Torx, which is provably and demonstrably superior to all other screw heads. It maximizes force transfer, and leaves more material in the head; it's harder to strip out, and can be applied effectively to very small screw heads. There's a security version, which was mostly useless (for intended purpose) the day after it was released, but beyond that, there's no real improvement that can be made.
The Phillips patents expired decades ago, so it's holding on mainly from inertia. Commercial contractors don't have much invested in it, because they have to literally buy boxes of replacement Phillips heads because of how shitty the design is and how often the heads break. While manufacturers have a steady stream of revenue from selling replacement Phillips tools that have broken, this is balanced by the mouth-watering prospect of every contractor in the US buying new Torx size-sets and high-end Torx tools. And the screw makers probably DGAF as they'll sell screws either way; Torx screws might be a little more expensive - they used to be, but I haven't compared lately.
Canada may just motor on using Robertson; there's less incentive for them to retool since Robertson isn't nearly as crappy as Phillips, so the cost/benefit to upgrade to Torx is less compelling. But who knows?
The image feels like it should be posted in c/unpopularopinions
Flatheads should only be used on thumbscrews just in case you need a little extra torque from a screwdriver.
The only other legitimate use I've seen for flatheads is on wooden boats, where you'll be gooping the head up with tar for waterproofing. Since you'll eventually have to scrape it back off again to get to the fastener, you want a simple geometry that's easy to clean.
Square (Robertson) drives are actually great too. Better than Hex/Allen, but Torx is the most reliable, and the most German. Phillips can take a long walk off a short pier.
I do wish Robertson heads were more common. They're almost as tough as torx, but tapered to stick on the tip of the tool, which is so convenient.
The ones with bumps in the middle can go fuck themselves
Square is nice too but square/Phillips is a good damn lie. Because the Philips side of it doesn't work well enough so it is still just a square but with extra slots
I feel like spanner would be the best for not having shit getting stripped. But that's just looking at this diagram; never seen them IRL.
They're mostly just used for tamper-proof screws for things like bathroom stalls so people can't take them apart as a "prank" or whatever. The screw driver bits tend to break easily, which is usually worse than the screw stripping.
Hexagons are the bestagons
If you've tried to do any large amount of work with slotted, you'll know that it belongs in Mental Disorders. I'll take Six-Lobe/Torx over phillips or slotted any day of the week.
Yea but fuck the security torx screws. Also hot take, but underrated screw goes to tri-wing/Y. They'd be great screws if they weren't security screws as well.
Also hot take, but underrated screw goes to tri-wing
Is that a hot take? Everyone I've ever mentioned them to who knows what they are immediately starts shit talking both them and Nintendo for making us buy a screwdriver for one set of devices in our lives
I remember melting plastic pens onto the nintendo screw heads in order to get them out. Fun times.
You can just get a pack of security bits from HF or online.
You can tell a shitpost is a shitpost when it is entirely wrong
Successfully baited 200 comments
Did you really shitpost? Or did you go fishing?
Was indeed a big catch
Agreed, Phillips needs to get Thanos'd.
Torx screws 4 lyfe
Same with slotted, hate them with a passion, especially when it's those with the raise head
Yeah, they're literally made to cam out.
Useful for automation, but terrible for repairs.
And the automation argument isn't as important now that electric drills all have clutches.
I also watch AVE, but it's Philips heads that were made for early assembly line use to cam out under torque. Specifically for the Model-T if I remember correctly.
Looks like it wasn't intended by the initial patent, but was discovered as a useful property.
I'm sorry, calling Robertson "square" is insulting to a superior screw design and fuck you for even pretending it isn't.
6 "lobe" is torx too. Nobody calls Allen bolts hexagon either.
I don't think I've ever heard that fastener called an Allen bolt, just the tool (Allen key). I've generally heard them called hex sockets heads. Maybe it's a regional thing?
Allen is a brand name, theyβre hex keys/wrenches
Yeah you are right
Positive affirmation π₯°π₯°
Fun fact speaking of regional things, in Swedish they are called "insex" (as in six on the inside)
In Dutch they are called "inbus", which apparently comes from the German name "Innensechskantschraube Bauer und Schaurte", where Innensechskantschraube means inside six sided screw and Bauer und Schaurte is the company who patented the screw type.
I have no idea how the name inbus came to be
Innensechskantschraube Bauer und Schaurte probably
Well yeah but still, who would think of that?
Germans apparently
But the german name is just innensechskant
Maybe, I do hear hex a bunch
Just rude, really.
Nobody calls Allen bolts hexagon either.
That's not true when working internationally, since it can have different names in different nations. In Italy is Brugola, in Germany Inbus and in other places it has other names. Everyone understands what a hex key is though
Agreed, but I often hear Allen keys referred to as hex keys. I don't think I've ever seen anyone confused by that though.
Itβs a crime against safe screwing to dis Robertson like that.
Everyone who does not want torx and nothing but torx has never screwed torx screws.
Honestly, I dont understand why everything isnt square drive.
its simple, and its a pretty strong design that resists camming out and rounding off.
Some claim to have stripped Robertson screws but to be fair, the metal used and amount of torque the peson applies is the biggest reason for problems.
Phillips heads were supposed to solve the over torquing problem, but everyone didn't listen to standard specifications and didn't bother using them as they were meant to be made and used. The Philips head was supposed to slip once the correct torque was applied. Unfortunately, this positive benefit became a negative. With poor metals and a mismatched driver bit to screw head along with not using the screw head that was meant for the specified torque demands, the Phillips screw became known for stripping.
Trying to implement non overtorquing feature to the square bit and you will find how similar it will look to the Phillips head.
Right now, Torx is the best at not stripping, but good luck if the screw is overtorqued. Eventually, the cheap metal gives out with the screw head, or bit, snapping off.
This is a common misconception. Phillips was not supposed to solve over torquing. It was designed to allow higher torques, stop slipping and self centre. It was only really good at self centering.
A screw designed to stop it being over toqured is a terrible idea. The screw should be smaller to prevent if higher torque is needed. If over torque is an issue then reducing the power to the driver is a much better solutio (easily done in industrial setting Phillips was designed for). You can also reduce the size of the screwdriver supplied.
Fuck large format torx that are exposed to the element. I just weld a nut on them now and pound them out with an impact because you'll break 2 torx bits for every one bolt you'd get out.
Torx are cancer.
There is one screw on this chart that I have a mortal hatred for. Just one. That being the fat Phillips (called "Phillips/square" on this chart meme thing).
I have no idea why, but some companies can't resist the sadistic urge to put tiny versions of these fuckers on equipment that should just use a torque or Phillips screw head. But no, they want you to truly suffer. Because they don't stop there: they make the fragile little fuckers out of NICKEL. Which means they are extra malleable and prone to strip if you so much as look at them the wrong way. So imagine you need to replace a hard drive on a RAID-type storage pool that's already down two spares and you can't fucking get the drive out of it's sled because the vendor not only hired a bodybuilder to tighten the screws, but simultaneously chose the worst possible metal just for giggles and chose the screw head that they no body will have the proper bit for and will inevitably use a normal phillips on until it strips.
I now have a ritual procedure of putting every drive that gets replaced in the coldest cold aisle in the datacenter for at least 5 minutes just to make these fucking screws less likely to ruin my day.
Fuck whoever invented the fat phillips, even the lowest ring of hell is too good for them.
But no, they want you to truly suffer.
It's called Planned Obsolescence, sweatie. Now go out and buy a new device.
Buddy. I'm not talking about consumer equipment. I'm talking about enterprise equipment that costs more than your car. Step off.
And yes, I know planned obsolescence is a thing in enterprise. But that doesn't mean your enterprise customer won't make purchasing decisions based on the quality of such small components. We refuse to order from HPE, to give you an idea of how we take this sort of thing. We know what we're buying and how to use it and if we can't properly maintain it because the vendor is an asshat, we'll find a new vendor because fuck you we can't afford to put up with your shenanigans.
Ya. Just those guys, and anybody who eats turtles. Keep the psychos out of the nice parts of hell.
Every awkward fascist, sexist turtle will be gathered into an imaginary pot and cooked alive for all to see. The aroma and broth will be delectable.
If you have no idea what any of this means and no idea why I don this weird username, then I kindly implore you stay out of it for sake of your own sanity. Otherwise, lmk and I'll begrudgingly curse you with knowledge of the tale of a particularly disgraceful misanthrope and an even worse excuse for a human being.
A lot of those wacky screws exist solely to keep people from randomly messing with them. You have to really go out of your way the get the right tool for the job, and that's if there even is one.
Like the one-way screws holding together bathroom stalls.
Those screws can fuck right off. Almost every bathroom stall installed today uses a security torx tip.
Edit: Forgot to clarify, the one way slotted screws can fuck right off.
Yup, I've noticed that spanner screws (the two dots) are usually found on elevator control panels. There is no reason that somebody should be able to open those up with a Swiss army knife.
It's funny because I've opened those screws on something else using a bit of effort and the scissors on my swiss army knife.
I'm American and even i can agree Robertson are the goat.
Phillips and flat suck. Not enough surface area on Phillips, resulting in stripped screws. And getting centered on flat sucks.
Robertson drive, just pop your driver in and it's self centering, lots of surface contact to drive, and lots of meat on the head to prevent stripping. Anything more than 4 edges is unnecessary.
You are now an honary Canadian.
Where my hex fans at?
Torx crew represent!
Fuck yea
Square Drive Gang would like to battle!
Fuck yea.
β€
nah torx and hex are great
Torx, yes, hex, no.
what's wrong with hex
Tbh 99% of the hate for hex is probably because Allen keys exist, and are included with everything. Those things are just pure hell. Hex is fine if you have proper drivers for it, but a lot of people don't.
Note: Speaking as someone that lives in America, I'm sure the rest of the world has already solved this.
Let me introduce a fresh hell: we call them Apex screws.
No thanks. I will stick to my torx and hex, and they better be in metric.
Don't use over or undersized screwdrivers, especially on smaller electronics.
Stop torquing while you are still ahead.
Be especially careful if the metals are soft.
Keep your driver perpendicular. Better drivers can make this easier.
Better to back out the screw and try again if it isn't going in smooth on something threaded. Check for debris and burrs. If you need to apply more pressure, do so carefully.
I have found that for small stuff, getting nicer drivers makes a huge difference.
Penta-lobes for some of the small electronics are funny I guess, but they don't bother me as long as I have a bit for it. Main thing is to understand why some of these different shapes exist.
Torx doesn't come in standard/metric. It uses an arbitrary system. What's so "25" about a T25?
Ah yes, the head size follows their iso standard for it. The threads, however, can be metric or SAE. You can put a different screw/bolt with whatever head in the same hole, but the threads/diameter can be metric or SAE/imperial.
Slot screws are the worst of them all...
I hate slot screws because they are easy to slip out of, and the place that I find them the most is always outlet covers. Like... What the fuck? Why are you gonna put the most easy to slip out of screw next to the most dangerous to slip into hole?!
What, you don't like playing with sparklers next to a box of dynamite?
I, too, do all of my electrical work without shutting off the breakers. Safety is for losers
I don't do electrical work. I'm usually taking the outlet covers off for painting walls. And I like to paint with the lights on.
Flatheads are awful and you know it.
Flatheads are good for a few specific applications that require the head to have flat contact with the surface but not be tall enough to be something else like a hex or torx, but needing a lot of torque. They suck for everything else.
Specific applications like... prying, poking, scraping, and chiseling.
Also handy on horrible cheap raised hex bolts when they get stripped. Dremel a slot and you're done.
There are low profile hex heads that exist for that same purpose though. Pretty much no need nowadays for slotted heads, except at very small scale.
where are they called slotted, I have only ever heard them called flat.
That's another american/british English thing
I actually really like Philips with slot because it's just a Philips with a slot for when the Philips gets stripped so the two on the bottom right corner are the best in my opinion because if one ether the flat head or the Philips gets stripped you can just grab a ratchet or spanner
Which is nice because the Philips always gets stripped.
"when the Phillips gets stripped"
Boys I think this indicates a problem
If you have a quality bit and quality fastener it's quite difficult to cam out a Phillips. The issue is that finding quality bits and fasteners can be difficult and expensive so most people have experience with the homeowner grade which cams out easily without a huge amount of pressure.
Why not just use a ratchet or spanner then...?
Because sometimes that might be stripped so you have to use ether the flat head or Philips
You'll call a Phillips a Phillips but not a Robertson a Robertson or an Allen an Allen, smh
Those aren't Robertson, they're Square, it's different, Robertson has a taper, square doesn't.
In Canada, all square screws are called Robinson. If you go into a hardware store and ask for square head screws, the worker will correct you and say "the Robinsons are this way".
It's just regional.
They are literally two different things, and it's Robertson, not Robinson. Yes, saying "square" in Canada will get you Robertson, as no one uses Square up north.
Whoever drew this deserves eternal damnation!
My boy, you do NOT do Robinson dirty like that.
Square wishing he was as famous as Phillips, sad.
"Robinson"!?!
I'm sorry but you're going to have to hand in your passport.
Oh no! I am forever shamed π
Fuuuuckin hell, I haven't seen a slotted screw since the 1980s. Philips screws are exclusively for electrical.
Is this yet another way the US has dropped 30 years behind modern countries?
They make bad screw heads but the drivers themselves are useful for so many random odd-jobs that you can basically be guaranteed to find a flathead that'll fit your screw within a few seconds of searching near basically any tools
Because of that many cheaper companies use flats for their screws, though I almost never see it in anything bigger than the little ass plugs we use in doorknobs and electrical socket covers. Once you go bigger than those it's usually a Phillips/flat combo, or torx if you're spending some extra cash
Oh god yeah I still use flat screwdrivers on a daily basis, basically as levers
"Little ass plugs" are called "grub screws" btw π
In 30 years you'll catch up and they'll all be 2.5mm Allen screws. I do remember them being slotted, it was a massive pain to find a screwdriver that fitted!
Phillips are for boring fuckin normies who can't chooch
Yeah hex or torx it is. Everything else can burn in hell
I'm seeing a lot of people here claiming that the Philips head was originally designed to cam out/strip to prevent a transfer of force sufficient to twist the head off. While I agree this does sound logically plausible, I could find no reference to such features in the original patent: https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/0f/28/e3/3e3075abbb9779/US2046837.pdf π€·ββοΈ
Yup. "Cam action" is only mentioned in the context of the wedge shaped driver/bit squishing out any crud that had lodged itself in the screw. The entire idea was self-centering and better engagement between the driver and screw due to the wedging. The fact that it failed more gracefully is a side benefit at most, and more likely just sales fluff to compete against Robertson.
To be fair, I have snapped a few Robertson in my day, certainly higher by percent than the number of Phillips I've used, but that's more than balanced out by the huge number of crappy Phillips heads that have been almost as totally ruined by camming out under fairly normal use with a properly fitted driver.
I submit that every screw in the world should be the six lobe slotted. For the stuff thatβs not tamper-resistant, anyway.
You have the six lobe for actually building things, because fuck Phillips head screws, and the slot for convenience where you could use anything from a coin to a knife.
Here in the US, certain brands of deck screws for outdoor use are six lobe and they come with the driver bit in the box because everybody has the damn Phillips and flat head screwdrivers! But to be fair, if you have a bunch of tools you probably also have a set of torx drivers.
if you need to unscrew a torx screw and you don't have any torx bits, you can try using a flathead. it won't work and you'll probably get hurt doing it, but you can try it.
Sometimes an allen wrench can be found which will fit. Still a shitty option, but better than flathead usually.
Thanks, I think I'll try this next time.
Pozidriv is clearly superior to Phillips
Why?
It was designed to allow more torque to be applied and greater engagement than Phillips drives. As a result, the Pozidriv is less likely to cam out.
IIRC that was a design feature of Phillips screws, not a flaw. Deliberately designed to limit torque to avoid over-tightening.
Interestingly, it was an accidental feature. The original patent application makes no mention of it, but 9 years later they added language about it camming out to the second patent application.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cam_out
Bug >> feature
In my experience pozidrive slips more than Philips, worst experience cap IMO
Torx master race has entered the chat.
Literally the only people who I hear say negative things about Torx / star bits are people who don't own a good Torx driver set. They don't strip easily (using the correct size) and they don't slip.
my dislike of them is soly because the multi tools I carry do not usualy have bits for them.
I'm a slotted screw HATER
Everything electrical uses them and it's a nightmare keeping the screwdriver aligned properly to try and take them out at a good speed
My favorite would be square drive but they always seem to make those out of recycled ham sandwiches or something
Come to Canada, most of our existing stuff is robertson, and only the really cheap new stuff isn't.
Op has never done any serious screw work it seems
Factually incorrect.
Torx and Square/Robertson are superior, Hex/Allen and Phillips are allowed a seat on this council but not granted the rank of master, Posidriv is theoretically Phillips++ but only to the six people in the world that know what it is and own a Posidriv screwdriver, to everyone else it's that goddamn Phillips that keeps camming out. JIS is parallel universe Phillips, it's exactly as reasonably okay as Phillips is for identical reasons, the biggest problem is that they exist alongside and closely resemble Phillips screws. Everything else except slotted is a mental disorder, and slotted was dropped on its head as a child.
Posidrive is very common in the UK. Especially in trades. They are so common screwdriver sets will include posi and slotted with no Philips. Philips is still common in electronics.
Posidrive is much better than Phillips, but just as easy to quickly screw lots of things. Torx and hex take longer to align and have many more sized drive ends. Posidrive has three sizes and 90% of them are number 2. But if you need more torque then they are no good. But at that point you need to switch to a different tool like an impact or wrench.
A washing machine I recently had to repair had three different sizes of torx and it isn't obvious which one till you test fit. Posidrive is easy to identify the size by eye and many different screw diameters share the same posi head. Coupled with self alignment they are just more convenient. I have Robertson bits from multipacks but never needed them.
Phillips has been such a standard for so long in the United States I don't think it's going anywhere, and Pozidriv has made basically no inroads; in fact the only Posidriv screws I own are part of an E3D 3D printer extruder.
I encounter a LOT of Phillips heads, quite a lot of Torx, at least here in America a lot of carpentry screws are starting to standardize on T25 Torx drive. A lot of them include a T25 driver bit in the package, and they are SO much better than Phillips. Drywall screws are still commonly #2 Phillips. Pocket screws (washer headed wood screws) tend to be square drive for whatever reason. Machine screws are either Phillips or Allen. I find a lot of appliances held together with small external hex sheet metal screws, if not Phillips.
I bought a 50 piece bit kit and it came with no less than 8 #2 Phillips drivers.
No mention of JIS which is yet another "fuck Phillips" argument
I got a dinky electronics repair kit that included a wide range of those bits and god DAMN. It feels like they outperform phillips heads on phillips fasteners.
Does that mean that I'm using a Phillips driver on things that are actually JIS? A lot of electronics are Japanese.
JIS is more common on Japanese machines, ie Japanese cars and motorcycles. When I was a bike mechanic you used JIS for Shimano derailleur adjustment screws. Even tho a Phillips "fit" it would destroy the screw.
I actually can't tell them apart from sight truth be told, but I'm also not wrenching anymore (not to mention the cycling industry largely moved on to hex and torx)
Probably. I find a JIS driver is, for the most part, slightly better for a lot of what I do.
The main thing I've found is you dont want too much of a point on the bit end. Too pointy and the driver will just wobble on the point and strip everything out.
Yup one of the first things I learned in computer repair is that a mostly flattened Philips works way better
What the actual fuck is a 'S type' screw? What purpose does that have that another normal screw type cannot provide? What madness is this?!
Easy to screw closed but not open. Gotta think about it in 3 dimensions. They are used in US bathroom stalls.
Why though? Do they think a pervert will go and unscrew doors? I'd argue the occupant would notice before it's all unscrewed. Also, kicking it down might just be faster.
Cool concept though, but as person who loves repairing their stuff, I must say f it.
It's less pervert prevention and more vandalism resistance.
I firmly believe that without these screws, there would actually be less vandalism. Because of theft.
Ah I understand. So like people just unscrewing things out of boredom?
I've seen them used in power supplies that are not supposed to be user-servicable.
Stops tampering. Nowadays they have learned that people have hex sets so they are moving to security hex.
To elaborate: it's in 3d, the s curve is a ramp. The regular screwdriver slots in when turned clockwise, but has no purchase the other way round. It slips out because the ramp lifts the screwdriver out of the screw.
Personally I wish we could eliminate flathead screw.
I seem to do that every time I try to use one.
I think it has its place in things that need to be fixed in the field where you may not have access to a screwdriver. Other than that they kinda suck
There's a distinct lack of love for pozidrive here. It's like Phillips but without being shit.
I worked for an engineering company that used them almost exclusively and now I won't shut the fuck up about pozidriv l. everyone thinks I'm insane
I agree. The vast majority of people don't know the difference, and have never used a pozidriv driver with a pozidriv screw. It is a vast improvement imo.
Don't think I've ever seen one before.
Might be regional? It's the go-to in the UK for a lot of screws.
Torx and PZ ftw.
Also, I'd like to apologise to the future owner of my house for making several constructions using both in no particular order.
The worst one I ever came across was five lobe tamperproof on a Seagate external hdd. Couldn't find any bits for it that didn't have to be imported. Ended with a rather destructive disassembly
Pentalobe screws are used by Apple, was surprised not to see them listed. They also use a strange tri on some old batteries.
Best is to mold one directly from the screwhead using molten iron issued from your local weaponsmith.
We're screwed
Phillips and pozi are actually designed to cam out (look it up on wikipedia). Started using torx a few years ago and I will never go back to pz again, even if it's on the clock and someone else is paying for materials.
Flat head still has it's place IMO, for example on machinery that gets used out in the field where you might need to improvise a driver out of a knife or coin or something.
Ph and pz are the work of the devil though.
This man clearly works in the field. Torx is the head to rule them all, except below T15 then it's a pain, and you break more bits than you put in screws.
True. Best to save T15 and below for cleaning the flesh out from under your fingernails after you've finished removing all the pz screws the last guy put in.
Is just me or pozi skips even more than standard Philips?
Yeah, they're even worse.
For real, an when de screw is cheap. The screwdriver just eats all the metal. More than one time I got left with a stuck screw because the craving was completely destroyed.
I came here to show love for Robertson, but it looks like I didn't need to. You guys are the best. π
Holy hell the entirety of Lemmy just exposed themselves as retarded jobless people.
Six lobe, or torx, is fucking awesome when screwing in serious screws. It's the reason why it replaced all philips and most hex heads.
Slotted screws are the fucking worst. You guys have never worked a blue collar job in your lives π€£ππ
My first thought was, "this post brought to you by not mechanics." Otherwise they'd recognize the superiority of hex and torx over Philips and especially flat. But then I realized this is, in fact, a very shit post.
You know, I made the comment and seconds later I noticed my blunder. But I refused to edit or delete it because I'm standing on bidness.
My post is bait
And good bait at that. You've snagged us all.
They y-type screw is obnoxious.
I've only encountered those on Nintendo products, they are the worst.
I will also allow hex. Anything else can get fucked
Hex stripped even when using the correct size likely due to a seized part.
Yeah, I've had hex strip before as well. It's always been on the smaller sizes for me though at least. Like sub M3 or 1/8" ish. And of course, cheap hex keys are just asking for it at those sizes. On the other hand, I've definitely never had a torx head strip out on me.
Robertson is fine, much much better than Philips, and cheaper to manufacture than torx.or hex.
Cue all the Canadians pretending anyone gives a shit about their goofy chamfered square deck screws.
I don't know what you're talking about. They're naturally superior.
Ahh, Lemmy shit post, makes sense now
They 100% got me until I saw your post, I was just about ready to start proselytizing for our lord and saivor the Torx bit.
Apparently I don't know shit about handywork since everyone here is swooning about Torx and I don't even have an idea what they are
The best goddamn type of screw you will ever screw. No slipping, no stripping - you torque, it goes in.
Oh.. I thought this was satirical about gender or something. Not literally saying that those are the two best screws, because NOBODY IN THE WORLD THINKS THAT.
I remember the original image did pick on genders considering cis male and female as the only "acceptable" ones
This version is better
Probably the best shitpost I've seen in a while.
Fuck Phillips screws
If they aren't made of material that is so easy to strip, they give you a lot more purchase than flat-heads.
They are specifically designed to cam out at high torque.
Robertson screws are where it's at
ASSY (from WΓRTH) is my go to for wood screws, and Torx for mechanical, the rest can go to hell.
One day some event is going to happen that ends civilization. The last sentence spoken before the event will be "oh shot does anyone have a hex set?".
i like the torx screws (philips strips easier)
How is the one that conveniently includes both types of slot not the standard for all screws? I'm sure there's an actual reason for it, but I'd prefer to remain incensed.
It probably costs like 2% more than one or the other to manufacture and a lot of choices involve penny pinching.
Joke aside, curious about what the percentage distribution is on those. I won't be surprised if the first two together have like 90% or more.
Depends on where you live. Here in Europe Pozidrive is slowly being replaced by six-lobe. Flatheads and Phillips are only on ancient stuff
Dafuq is a pozidrive
It's like a pozidrive roundhole without the roundhole
Cheers m8 I've become enlightened now π
A slightly better Phillips head
Square!?!? Robertson should be the gold standard here!!!
what's wrong with philips + slot
Nah. Fuck the slotted screw. I hate that piece of shit screw. Phillips is acceptable. Torx is my preferred.
Robertson (square) should be the only screw type, but the US got all butt hurt that a Canadian perfected the screw.
I don't see how square/triangle worldbt be ideal. They don't look like they'd strip nearly as bad
World'bt
I believe it's *worldb't. Short for world butt.
Uh oh... I sense an AI image incoming.
Pentalobe is my favorite.
Pretty sure I could get all of these screwed in with a combo of Philips and flathead
Y type is intentionally made to say "fuck you" to that sentence.
And deserves to burn in hell for it
I'm a 6 Lobe Tamper myself.... Eeeww, I just heard it out loud.
Tri-wing is the best ! Never saw it before.
Half dozen or so of them are just slot or phillips with extra shit, no weird tools needed.
It's not "Phillips/slot" π€£π€£π€£π€£
Where torx superiority
I suppose that's what they mean by "six-lobe".
And I would personally much prefer for everything to be torx rather than Phillips head. Phillips head is designed to let the screw get damaged instead of the screwdriver, whereas torx is designed to reduce the chance of cam-out (and therefore damage to the screw). I'd much rather replace a screwdriver than invent a new way to get out a screw that's been rounded out by repeated cam-outs. Again.
six lobe and it's variants are instruments of the devil, I swear I can't ever get the screw size right for the life of me and get so paranoid about stripping screws.
Philips screws are awful. They strip if you look at them wrong. Flatheads should only be used on thumbscrews just in case you need a little extra torque from a screwdriver.
Torx and Hex are excellent.
I work on electronics and woodworking and Phillips are the utter worst of both of them. The thread lock in computers makes them easy to strip when unscrewing. The resistance of driving them into wood makes them guaranteed to strip when screwing. Fuck them.
The big issue I see with people driving Phillips screws is that they don't use a large enough driver size. Computer screws for example are Phillips #2 and I've never had an issue with them stripping.
I use the correct driver, I'll go through my kit to find the best fitting bit. It simply comes down to the fact they are designed to strip to avoid "catastrophic failure". Plus the fact that companies use intentionally cheap, soft screws, to make repair and service harder. Cough cough zinc screws on a $10,000 iMac (steel screws would have cost 25 cents for 10, zinc like 5 cents for 10, fucking ridiculous).
I read that the thing about them being designed to strip to prevent worse failure is just a myth. Or at least they weren't originally designed to. It said that the original patent never contained any feature for that. Wouldn't surprise me though if modern companies do use screws designed to strip to prevent disassembly/repair.
I think originally the screws would cause the driver to cam out and stop driving if a certain amount of force is applied but the screws are so soft and cheap that the harder driver damages the screw head when it cams out.
This and the centered shape that Philips and Robertson have were key. The lack of a sharp driver bit being able to slip out of the fastener prevented a lot of injuries.
However, Philips, at least, needs to go away.
I always figured it was intentional but for the other reason: screws soft enough that overtightening can't damage/crack the multi-thousand dollar components, the screw head cores out first.
That's great, but then you can't get your multi-thousand dollar component unscrewed anyway so what was the point?
It's also a design flaw that it's so easy to use the wrong sized driver and it will sorta work. It might be annoying that you have to have a set of different star drive or hex drive bits, but you're less likely to strip them.
Could be that it's not a Philips but a JIS. I didn't even know that JIS existed until a couple years ago. The shape is close enough to Philips to mostly work but make it super easy to strip.
Maybe I'm just being lucky but I've never experienced screws stripping anymore since I've started getting better tools for myself.
And in woodworking it can also help to pre-drill a hole using your smallest drill, before screwing a screw in. This also prevents the wood from cracking. I've also seen wood screws that have some lubrication pre-applied.
The problem is, when working with electronics, you can have a great screwdriver but it won't help if the screws in the device are very cheap (and probably partially stripped already from someone opening it previously).
I swear I've had stuff with stripped screws right from the store.
I'll be honest that I've never really experienced problems like that before. I've had cheap screws and partially stripped screws. But so far I've always been able to open them with the right screwdriver.
But I believe you when you say you did and maybe you have a lot more experience than I do so I'll respect your opinion.
I haven't had any completely fail yet, but I've seen some come worryingly close. I don't really have all that much experience, but from what I've seen it just doesn't seem like the most reliable design.
PC fan screws come to mind because they are self tapping and a lot of people seem to not use the right screwdriver or don't yet know the trick of running the screws in and out of the fan one time outside of the case first.
Torx gang unite.
We had our 20 y/o deck repaired and stained last year. I was chatting with the overseer about what he was going to do and the topic of screws came up; he said he was going to use Torx, and only ever used Torx anymore - I just about cheered.
I'd been losing hope in humanity lately, but little signs of sanity like this, professionals finally getting rid of the hell-bits that are Phillips heads, lifts my heart and gives me hope.
I work at a big box hardware store, and I can confirm that almost all deck and structural screws are moving to torx. (much to the older generations dismay)
That's what a worker at my local Ace store said: they were slowly transitioning to Torx.
These days, all but the cheapest outdoor-grade screws in the US are torx, generally with a bit thrown into the box that, while cheap, should work fine for a few boxes' worth.
Freaking awesome. Better and better. We've finally fixed the screw heads, and pretty much also computer connectors (and small device chargers!) with USB-C. Just in time for the end of the world via total ecological collapse.
Great times.
I've heard that was more of a European thing, but the only two serious contenders are Pozidriv vs Torx for screws (and hex vs Allen for bolts).
I just checked my local hardware store's website, and out of the 176 kinds of 4/4.5mm screw boxes in their inventory, 74 are Torx, 55 are Pozidriv, and 38 are Phillips (ew).
Either Torx or Pozidriv is fine when used properly, however most DIYers don't understand the difference between PZ and PH and end up stripping their heads. Also it's much harder to use the wrong-sized bit with Torx than PZ.
So yeah, Torx wins in just about every category and other heads only get manufactured to appease old people and penny-pinchers.
That's one of my issues with Pozi - it can be hard to see the markings, and not everyone has great eyesight. I mostly object to Phillips-related screws because there are so many variations that mostly look the same and require a table to differentiate. And none have the torque-transfer performance of Torx. Plus, you can use a hex head in a Torx bit in an emergency and you don't much care about either the bit or the head.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a philips or slotted deck screw. I have and have purchased many boxes of these things and they've always been nearly 100% Robertson. Is this a US thing?
Yes, and you're Canadian. Robertson is the standard there, and while it's used in other countries, not nearly as much.
In the beginning was slotted heads, mainly because mass machining and casting wasn't good enough to have more precise forms. Then came the Great Connector Wars, and in the US the Phillips head won and was standardized; almost every house built in the US in the past 80 years will be built with these (and nails). Slotted heads are much less common, but you find them in various specific places, like where the heads are visible and you want to hide the screw as much as economically possible.
Canada, however, was smarter and standardized on the Robertson head; IIRC one reason for the divergence was the Phillips licensing cost. In any case, Robertson is superior to Phillips in most ways, except it's even worse to dig out if it gets painted over.
As machining improved, many attempts were made to improve on Phillips, which mostly amounted to polishing a turd; Robertson remained unchanged as it was already pretty good.
Then came hex, which is great except it's structurally pretty terrible for the head. Still, it can be seen as an improvement in Robertson, but not quite so good as to be worth all the retooling. Good enough that it's probably the second, or at least third, most popular head in the US.
Finally, someone did some fucking math and came up with Torx, which is provably and demonstrably superior to all other screw heads. It maximizes force transfer, and leaves more material in the head; it's harder to strip out, and can be applied effectively to very small screw heads. There's a security version, which was mostly useless (for intended purpose) the day after it was released, but beyond that, there's no real improvement that can be made.
The Phillips patents expired decades ago, so it's holding on mainly from inertia. Commercial contractors don't have much invested in it, because they have to literally buy boxes of replacement Phillips heads because of how shitty the design is and how often the heads break. While manufacturers have a steady stream of revenue from selling replacement Phillips tools that have broken, this is balanced by the mouth-watering prospect of every contractor in the US buying new Torx size-sets and high-end Torx tools. And the screw makers probably DGAF as they'll sell screws either way; Torx screws might be a little more expensive - they used to be, but I haven't compared lately.
Canada may just motor on using Robertson; there's less incentive for them to retool since Robertson isn't nearly as crappy as Phillips, so the cost/benefit to upgrade to Torx is less compelling. But who knows?
The image feels like it should be posted in c/unpopularopinions
The only other legitimate use I've seen for flatheads is on wooden boats, where you'll be gooping the head up with tar for waterproofing. Since you'll eventually have to scrape it back off again to get to the fastener, you want a simple geometry that's easy to clean.
Square (Robertson) drives are actually great too. Better than Hex/Allen, but Torx is the most reliable, and the most German. Phillips can take a long walk off a short pier.
I do wish Robertson heads were more common. They're almost as tough as torx, but tapered to stick on the tip of the tool, which is so convenient.
The ones with bumps in the middle can go fuck themselves
Square is nice too but square/Phillips is a good damn lie. Because the Philips side of it doesn't work well enough so it is still just a square but with extra slots
I feel like spanner would be the best for not having shit getting stripped. But that's just looking at this diagram; never seen them IRL.
They're mostly just used for tamper-proof screws for things like bathroom stalls so people can't take them apart as a "prank" or whatever. The screw driver bits tend to break easily, which is usually worse than the screw stripping.
Hexagons are the bestagons
If you've tried to do any large amount of work with slotted, you'll know that it belongs in Mental Disorders. I'll take Six-Lobe/Torx over phillips or slotted any day of the week.
Yea but fuck the security torx screws. Also hot take, but underrated screw goes to tri-wing/Y. They'd be great screws if they weren't security screws as well.
Is that a hot take? Everyone I've ever mentioned them to who knows what they are immediately starts shit talking both them and Nintendo for making us buy a screwdriver for one set of devices in our lives
I remember melting plastic pens onto the nintendo screw heads in order to get them out. Fun times.
You can just get a pack of security bits from HF or online.
You can tell a shitpost is a shitpost when it is entirely wrong
Successfully baited 200 comments
Did you really shitpost? Or did you go fishing?
Was indeed a big catch
Agreed, Phillips needs to get Thanos'd.
Torx screws 4 lyfe
Same with slotted, hate them with a passion, especially when it's those with the raise head
Yeah, they're literally made to cam out.
Useful for automation, but terrible for repairs.
And the automation argument isn't as important now that electric drills all have clutches.
I also watch AVE, but it's Philips heads that were made for early assembly line use to cam out under torque. Specifically for the Model-T if I remember correctly.
Never watched AVE, I used to be an auto tech.
The Wikipedia article has an interesting summary.
Looks like it wasn't intended by the initial patent, but was discovered as a useful property.
I'm sorry, calling Robertson "square" is insulting to a superior screw design and fuck you for even pretending it isn't.
6 "lobe" is torx too. Nobody calls Allen bolts hexagon either.
I don't think I've ever heard that fastener called an Allen bolt, just the tool (Allen key). I've generally heard them called hex sockets heads. Maybe it's a regional thing?
Allen is a brand name, theyβre hex keys/wrenches
Yeah you are right
Positive affirmation π₯°π₯°
Fun fact speaking of regional things, in Swedish they are called "insex" (as in six on the inside)
In Dutch they are called "inbus", which apparently comes from the German name "Innensechskantschraube Bauer und Schaurte", where Innensechskantschraube means inside six sided screw and Bauer und Schaurte is the company who patented the screw type.
I have no idea how the name inbus came to be
Innensechskantschraube Bauer und Schaurte probably
Well yeah but still, who would think of that?
Germans apparently
But the german name is just innensechskant
Maybe, I do hear hex a bunch
Just rude, really.
That's not true when working internationally, since it can have different names in different nations. In Italy is Brugola, in Germany Inbus and in other places it has other names. Everyone understands what a hex key is though
Agreed, but I often hear Allen keys referred to as hex keys. I don't think I've ever seen anyone confused by that though.
Itβs a crime against safe screwing to dis Robertson like that.
Everyone who does not want torx and nothing but torx has never screwed torx screws.
Honestly, I dont understand why everything isnt square drive.
its simple, and its a pretty strong design that resists camming out and rounding off.
Some claim to have stripped Robertson screws but to be fair, the metal used and amount of torque the peson applies is the biggest reason for problems.
Phillips heads were supposed to solve the over torquing problem, but everyone didn't listen to standard specifications and didn't bother using them as they were meant to be made and used. The Philips head was supposed to slip once the correct torque was applied. Unfortunately, this positive benefit became a negative. With poor metals and a mismatched driver bit to screw head along with not using the screw head that was meant for the specified torque demands, the Phillips screw became known for stripping.
Trying to implement non overtorquing feature to the square bit and you will find how similar it will look to the Phillips head.
Right now, Torx is the best at not stripping, but good luck if the screw is overtorqued. Eventually, the cheap metal gives out with the screw head, or bit, snapping off.
This is a common misconception. Phillips was not supposed to solve over torquing. It was designed to allow higher torques, stop slipping and self centre. It was only really good at self centering.
A screw designed to stop it being over toqured is a terrible idea. The screw should be smaller to prevent if higher torque is needed. If over torque is an issue then reducing the power to the driver is a much better solutio (easily done in industrial setting Phillips was designed for). You can also reduce the size of the screwdriver supplied.
Fuck large format torx that are exposed to the element. I just weld a nut on them now and pound them out with an impact because you'll break 2 torx bits for every one bolt you'd get out.
Torx are cancer.
There is one screw on this chart that I have a mortal hatred for. Just one. That being the fat Phillips (called "Phillips/square" on this chart meme thing).
I have no idea why, but some companies can't resist the sadistic urge to put tiny versions of these fuckers on equipment that should just use a torque or Phillips screw head. But no, they want you to truly suffer. Because they don't stop there: they make the fragile little fuckers out of NICKEL. Which means they are extra malleable and prone to strip if you so much as look at them the wrong way. So imagine you need to replace a hard drive on a RAID-type storage pool that's already down two spares and you can't fucking get the drive out of it's sled because the vendor not only hired a bodybuilder to tighten the screws, but simultaneously chose the worst possible metal just for giggles and chose the screw head that they no body will have the proper bit for and will inevitably use a normal phillips on until it strips.
I now have a ritual procedure of putting every drive that gets replaced in the coldest cold aisle in the datacenter for at least 5 minutes just to make these fucking screws less likely to ruin my day.
Fuck whoever invented the fat phillips, even the lowest ring of hell is too good for them.
It's called Planned Obsolescence, sweatie. Now go out and buy a new device.
Buddy. I'm not talking about consumer equipment. I'm talking about enterprise equipment that costs more than your car. Step off.
And yes, I know planned obsolescence is a thing in enterprise. But that doesn't mean your enterprise customer won't make purchasing decisions based on the quality of such small components. We refuse to order from HPE, to give you an idea of how we take this sort of thing. We know what we're buying and how to use it and if we can't properly maintain it because the vendor is an asshat, we'll find a new vendor because fuck you we can't afford to put up with your shenanigans.
Ya. Just those guys, and anybody who eats turtles. Keep the psychos out of the nice parts of hell.
Every awkward fascist, sexist turtle will be gathered into an imaginary pot and cooked alive for all to see. The aroma and broth will be delectable.
If you have no idea what any of this means and no idea why I don this weird username, then I kindly implore you stay out of it for sake of your own sanity. Otherwise, lmk and I'll begrudgingly curse you with knowledge of the tale of a particularly disgraceful misanthrope and an even worse excuse for a human being.
A lot of those wacky screws exist solely to keep people from randomly messing with them. You have to really go out of your way the get the right tool for the job, and that's if there even is one.
Like the one-way screws holding together bathroom stalls.
Those screws can fuck right off. Almost every bathroom stall installed today uses a security torx tip.
Edit: Forgot to clarify, the one way slotted screws can fuck right off.
Yup, I've noticed that spanner screws (the two dots) are usually found on elevator control panels. There is no reason that somebody should be able to open those up with a Swiss army knife.
It's funny because I've opened those screws on something else using a bit of effort and the scissors on my swiss army knife.
I'm American and even i can agree Robertson are the goat.
Phillips and flat suck. Not enough surface area on Phillips, resulting in stripped screws. And getting centered on flat sucks.
Robertson drive, just pop your driver in and it's self centering, lots of surface contact to drive, and lots of meat on the head to prevent stripping. Anything more than 4 edges is unnecessary.
You are now an honary Canadian.
Where my hex fans at?
Torx crew represent!
Fuck yea
Square Drive Gang would like to battle!
Fuck yea.
β€
nah torx and hex are great
Torx, yes, hex, no.
what's wrong with hex
Tbh 99% of the hate for hex is probably because Allen keys exist, and are included with everything. Those things are just pure hell. Hex is fine if you have proper drivers for it, but a lot of people don't.
Note: Speaking as someone that lives in America, I'm sure the rest of the world has already solved this.
Let me introduce a fresh hell: we call them Apex screws.
No take it back
German engineering?
Wonder what gave away...
Torx is the only screw I buy when I buy screws. All the phillipses and other shit screws I have were included with some other shit I bought.
I've never seen Torx screws on any shelf in France. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right place, but everything is fucking Philips. Everything
Why is that? Do they last longer than Phillips?
No thanks. I will stick to my torx and hex, and they better be in metric.
Don't use over or undersized screwdrivers, especially on smaller electronics.
Stop torquing while you are still ahead.
Be especially careful if the metals are soft.
Keep your driver perpendicular. Better drivers can make this easier.
Better to back out the screw and try again if it isn't going in smooth on something threaded. Check for debris and burrs. If you need to apply more pressure, do so carefully.
I have found that for small stuff, getting nicer drivers makes a huge difference.
Penta-lobes for some of the small electronics are funny I guess, but they don't bother me as long as I have a bit for it. Main thing is to understand why some of these different shapes exist.
Torx doesn't come in standard/metric. It uses an arbitrary system. What's so "25" about a T25?
Ah yes, the head size follows their iso standard for it. The threads, however, can be metric or SAE. You can put a different screw/bolt with whatever head in the same hole, but the threads/diameter can be metric or SAE/imperial.
Slot screws are the worst of them all...
I hate slot screws because they are easy to slip out of, and the place that I find them the most is always outlet covers. Like... What the fuck? Why are you gonna put the most easy to slip out of screw next to the most dangerous to slip into hole?!
What, you don't like playing with sparklers next to a box of dynamite?
I, too, do all of my electrical work without shutting off the breakers. Safety is for losers
I don't do electrical work. I'm usually taking the outlet covers off for painting walls. And I like to paint with the lights on.
Flatheads are awful and you know it.
Flatheads are good for a few specific applications that require the head to have flat contact with the surface but not be tall enough to be something else like a hex or torx, but needing a lot of torque. They suck for everything else.
Specific applications like... prying, poking, scraping, and chiseling.
Also handy on horrible cheap raised hex bolts when they get stripped. Dremel a slot and you're done.
There are low profile hex heads that exist for that same purpose though. Pretty much no need nowadays for slotted heads, except at very small scale.
where are they called slotted, I have only ever heard them called flat.
That's another american/british English thing
I actually really like Philips with slot because it's just a Philips with a slot for when the Philips gets stripped so the two on the bottom right corner are the best in my opinion because if one ether the flat head or the Philips gets stripped you can just grab a ratchet or spanner
Which is nice because the Philips always gets stripped.
"when the Phillips gets stripped"
Boys I think this indicates a problem
If you have a quality bit and quality fastener it's quite difficult to cam out a Phillips. The issue is that finding quality bits and fasteners can be difficult and expensive so most people have experience with the homeowner grade which cams out easily without a huge amount of pressure.
Why not just use a ratchet or spanner then...?
Because sometimes that might be stripped so you have to use ether the flat head or Philips
You'll call a Phillips a Phillips but not a Robertson a Robertson or an Allen an Allen, smh
Those aren't Robertson, they're Square, it's different, Robertson has a taper, square doesn't.
In Canada, all square screws are called Robinson. If you go into a hardware store and ask for square head screws, the worker will correct you and say "the Robinsons are this way".
It's just regional.
They are literally two different things, and it's Robertson, not Robinson. Yes, saying "square" in Canada will get you Robertson, as no one uses Square up north.
Whoever drew this deserves eternal damnation!
My boy, you do NOT do Robinson dirty like that.
Square wishing he was as famous as Phillips, sad.
"Robinson"!?!
I'm sorry but you're going to have to hand in your passport.
Oh no! I am forever shamed π
Fuuuuckin hell, I haven't seen a slotted screw since the 1980s. Philips screws are exclusively for electrical.
Is this yet another way the US has dropped 30 years behind modern countries?
They make bad screw heads but the drivers themselves are useful for so many random odd-jobs that you can basically be guaranteed to find a flathead that'll fit your screw within a few seconds of searching near basically any tools
Because of that many cheaper companies use flats for their screws, though I almost never see it in anything bigger than the little ass plugs we use in doorknobs and electrical socket covers. Once you go bigger than those it's usually a Phillips/flat combo, or torx if you're spending some extra cash
Oh god yeah I still use flat screwdrivers on a daily basis, basically as levers
"Little ass plugs" are called "grub screws" btw π
In 30 years you'll catch up and they'll all be 2.5mm Allen screws. I do remember them being slotted, it was a massive pain to find a screwdriver that fitted!
Phillips are for boring fuckin normies who can't chooch
Yeah hex or torx it is. Everything else can burn in hell
I'm seeing a lot of people here claiming that the Philips head was originally designed to cam out/strip to prevent a transfer of force sufficient to twist the head off. While I agree this does sound logically plausible, I could find no reference to such features in the original patent: https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/0f/28/e3/3e3075abbb9779/US2046837.pdf π€·ββοΈ
Yup. "Cam action" is only mentioned in the context of the wedge shaped driver/bit squishing out any crud that had lodged itself in the screw. The entire idea was self-centering and better engagement between the driver and screw due to the wedging. The fact that it failed more gracefully is a side benefit at most, and more likely just sales fluff to compete against Robertson.
To be fair, I have snapped a few Robertson in my day, certainly higher by percent than the number of Phillips I've used, but that's more than balanced out by the huge number of crappy Phillips heads that have been almost as totally ruined by camming out under fairly normal use with a properly fitted driver.
I submit that every screw in the world should be the six lobe slotted. For the stuff thatβs not tamper-resistant, anyway.
You have the six lobe for actually building things, because fuck Phillips head screws, and the slot for convenience where you could use anything from a coin to a knife.
Here in the US, certain brands of deck screws for outdoor use are six lobe and they come with the driver bit in the box because everybody has the damn Phillips and flat head screwdrivers! But to be fair, if you have a bunch of tools you probably also have a set of torx drivers.
if you need to unscrew a torx screw and you don't have any torx bits, you can try using a flathead. it won't work and you'll probably get hurt doing it, but you can try it.
Sometimes an allen wrench can be found which will fit. Still a shitty option, but better than flathead usually.
Thanks, I think I'll try this next time.
Pozidriv is clearly superior to Phillips
Why?
IIRC that was a design feature of Phillips screws, not a flaw. Deliberately designed to limit torque to avoid over-tightening.
Interestingly, it was an accidental feature. The original patent application makes no mention of it, but 9 years later they added language about it camming out to the second patent application. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cam_out
Bug >> feature
In my experience pozidrive slips more than Philips, worst experience cap IMO
Torx master race has entered the chat.
Literally the only people who I hear say negative things about Torx / star bits are people who don't own a good Torx driver set. They don't strip easily (using the correct size) and they don't slip.
my dislike of them is soly because the multi tools I carry do not usualy have bits for them.
I'm a slotted screw HATER
Everything electrical uses them and it's a nightmare keeping the screwdriver aligned properly to try and take them out at a good speed
My favorite would be square drive but they always seem to make those out of recycled ham sandwiches or something
Come to Canada, most of our existing stuff is robertson, and only the really cheap new stuff isn't.
Op has never done any serious screw work it seems
Factually incorrect.
Torx and Square/Robertson are superior, Hex/Allen and Phillips are allowed a seat on this council but not granted the rank of master, Posidriv is theoretically Phillips++ but only to the six people in the world that know what it is and own a Posidriv screwdriver, to everyone else it's that goddamn Phillips that keeps camming out. JIS is parallel universe Phillips, it's exactly as reasonably okay as Phillips is for identical reasons, the biggest problem is that they exist alongside and closely resemble Phillips screws. Everything else except slotted is a mental disorder, and slotted was dropped on its head as a child.
Posidrive is very common in the UK. Especially in trades. They are so common screwdriver sets will include posi and slotted with no Philips. Philips is still common in electronics.
Posidrive is much better than Phillips, but just as easy to quickly screw lots of things. Torx and hex take longer to align and have many more sized drive ends. Posidrive has three sizes and 90% of them are number 2. But if you need more torque then they are no good. But at that point you need to switch to a different tool like an impact or wrench.
A washing machine I recently had to repair had three different sizes of torx and it isn't obvious which one till you test fit. Posidrive is easy to identify the size by eye and many different screw diameters share the same posi head. Coupled with self alignment they are just more convenient. I have Robertson bits from multipacks but never needed them.
Phillips has been such a standard for so long in the United States I don't think it's going anywhere, and Pozidriv has made basically no inroads; in fact the only Posidriv screws I own are part of an E3D 3D printer extruder.
I encounter a LOT of Phillips heads, quite a lot of Torx, at least here in America a lot of carpentry screws are starting to standardize on T25 Torx drive. A lot of them include a T25 driver bit in the package, and they are SO much better than Phillips. Drywall screws are still commonly #2 Phillips. Pocket screws (washer headed wood screws) tend to be square drive for whatever reason. Machine screws are either Phillips or Allen. I find a lot of appliances held together with small external hex sheet metal screws, if not Phillips.
I bought a 50 piece bit kit and it came with no less than 8 #2 Phillips drivers.
No mention of JIS which is yet another "fuck Phillips" argument
I got a dinky electronics repair kit that included a wide range of those bits and god DAMN. It feels like they outperform phillips heads on phillips fasteners.
Does that mean that I'm using a Phillips driver on things that are actually JIS? A lot of electronics are Japanese.
JIS is more common on Japanese machines, ie Japanese cars and motorcycles. When I was a bike mechanic you used JIS for Shimano derailleur adjustment screws. Even tho a Phillips "fit" it would destroy the screw.
I actually can't tell them apart from sight truth be told, but I'm also not wrenching anymore (not to mention the cycling industry largely moved on to hex and torx)
Probably. I find a JIS driver is, for the most part, slightly better for a lot of what I do.
The main thing I've found is you dont want too much of a point on the bit end. Too pointy and the driver will just wobble on the point and strip everything out.
Yup one of the first things I learned in computer repair is that a mostly flattened Philips works way better
What the actual fuck is a 'S type' screw? What purpose does that have that another normal screw type cannot provide? What madness is this?!
Easy to screw closed but not open. Gotta think about it in 3 dimensions. They are used in US bathroom stalls.
Why though? Do they think a pervert will go and unscrew doors? I'd argue the occupant would notice before it's all unscrewed. Also, kicking it down might just be faster.
Cool concept though, but as person who loves repairing their stuff, I must say f it.
It's less pervert prevention and more vandalism resistance.
I firmly believe that without these screws, there would actually be less vandalism. Because of theft.
Ah I understand. So like people just unscrewing things out of boredom?
I've seen them used in power supplies that are not supposed to be user-servicable.
Stops tampering. Nowadays they have learned that people have hex sets so they are moving to security hex.
To elaborate: it's in 3d, the s curve is a ramp. The regular screwdriver slots in when turned clockwise, but has no purchase the other way round. It slips out because the ramp lifts the screwdriver out of the screw.
Personally I wish we could eliminate flathead screw.
I seem to do that every time I try to use one.
I think it has its place in things that need to be fixed in the field where you may not have access to a screwdriver. Other than that they kinda suck
There's a distinct lack of love for pozidrive here. It's like Phillips but without being shit.
I worked for an engineering company that used them almost exclusively and now I won't shut the fuck up about pozidriv l. everyone thinks I'm insane
I agree. The vast majority of people don't know the difference, and have never used a pozidriv driver with a pozidriv screw. It is a vast improvement imo.
Don't think I've ever seen one before.
Might be regional? It's the go-to in the UK for a lot of screws.
Torx and PZ ftw.
Also, I'd like to apologise to the future owner of my house for making several constructions using both in no particular order.
The worst one I ever came across was five lobe tamperproof on a Seagate external hdd. Couldn't find any bits for it that didn't have to be imported. Ended with a rather destructive disassembly
Pentalobe screws are used by Apple, was surprised not to see them listed. They also use a strange tri on some old batteries.
Best is to mold one directly from the screwhead using molten iron issued from your local weaponsmith.
We're screwed
Phillips and pozi are actually designed to cam out (look it up on wikipedia). Started using torx a few years ago and I will never go back to pz again, even if it's on the clock and someone else is paying for materials.
Flat head still has it's place IMO, for example on machinery that gets used out in the field where you might need to improvise a driver out of a knife or coin or something.
Ph and pz are the work of the devil though.
This man clearly works in the field. Torx is the head to rule them all, except below T15 then it's a pain, and you break more bits than you put in screws.
True. Best to save T15 and below for cleaning the flesh out from under your fingernails after you've finished removing all the pz screws the last guy put in.
Is just me or pozi skips even more than standard Philips?
Yeah, they're even worse.
For real, an when de screw is cheap. The screwdriver just eats all the metal. More than one time I got left with a stuck screw because the craving was completely destroyed.
I came here to show love for Robertson, but it looks like I didn't need to. You guys are the best. π
Holy hell the entirety of Lemmy just exposed themselves as retarded jobless people.
Six lobe, or torx, is fucking awesome when screwing in serious screws. It's the reason why it replaced all philips and most hex heads.
Slotted screws are the fucking worst. You guys have never worked a blue collar job in your lives π€£ππ
My first thought was, "this post brought to you by not mechanics." Otherwise they'd recognize the superiority of hex and torx over Philips and especially flat. But then I realized this is, in fact, a very shit post.
You know, I made the comment and seconds later I noticed my blunder. But I refused to edit or delete it because I'm standing on bidness.
My post is bait
And good bait at that. You've snagged us all.
They y-type screw is obnoxious.
I've only encountered those on Nintendo products, they are the worst.
I will also allow hex. Anything else can get fucked
Hex stripped even when using the correct size likely due to a seized part.
Yeah, I've had hex strip before as well. It's always been on the smaller sizes for me though at least. Like sub M3 or 1/8" ish. And of course, cheap hex keys are just asking for it at those sizes. On the other hand, I've definitely never had a torx head strip out on me.
Robertson is fine, much much better than Philips, and cheaper to manufacture than torx.or hex.
Cue all the Canadians pretending anyone gives a shit about their goofy chamfered square deck screws.
I don't know what you're talking about. They're naturally superior.
Ahh, Lemmy shit post, makes sense now
They 100% got me until I saw your post, I was just about ready to start proselytizing for our lord and saivor the Torx bit.
Apparently I don't know shit about handywork since everyone here is swooning about Torx and I don't even have an idea what they are
The best goddamn type of screw you will ever screw. No slipping, no stripping - you torque, it goes in.
Clutch screw aka the green lantern corp screw
Oh.. I thought this was satirical about gender or something. Not literally saying that those are the two best screws, because NOBODY IN THE WORLD THINKS THAT.
I remember the original image did pick on genders considering cis male and female as the only "acceptable" ones
This version is better
Probably the best shitpost I've seen in a while.
Fuck Phillips screws
If they aren't made of material that is so easy to strip, they give you a lot more purchase than flat-heads.
They are specifically designed to cam out at high torque.
Robertson screws are where it's at
ASSY (from WΓRTH) is my go to for wood screws, and Torx for mechanical, the rest can go to hell.
Translated into Albertan:
Slotted = Flathead. Square = Robertson. 6 lobe = Torx
One day some event is going to happen that ends civilization. The last sentence spoken before the event will be "oh shot does anyone have a hex set?".
i like the torx screws (philips strips easier)
How is the one that conveniently includes both types of slot not the standard for all screws? I'm sure there's an actual reason for it, but I'd prefer to remain incensed.
It probably costs like 2% more than one or the other to manufacture and a lot of choices involve penny pinching.
Joke aside, curious about what the percentage distribution is on those. I won't be surprised if the first two together have like 90% or more.
Depends on where you live. Here in Europe Pozidrive is slowly being replaced by six-lobe. Flatheads and Phillips are only on ancient stuff
Dafuq is a pozidrive
It's like a pozidrive roundhole without the roundhole
Cheers m8 I've become enlightened now π
A slightly better Phillips head
Square!?!? Robertson should be the gold standard here!!!
what's wrong with philips + slot
Nah. Fuck the slotted screw. I hate that piece of shit screw. Phillips is acceptable. Torx is my preferred.
Robertson (square) should be the only screw type, but the US got all butt hurt that a Canadian perfected the screw.
I don't see how square/triangle worldbt be ideal. They don't look like they'd strip nearly as bad
World'bt
I believe it's *worldb't. Short for world butt.
Uh oh... I sense an AI image incoming.
Pentalobe is my favorite.
Pretty sure I could get all of these screwed in with a combo of Philips and flathead
Y type is intentionally made to say "fuck you" to that sentence.
And deserves to burn in hell for it
I'm a 6 Lobe Tamper myself.... Eeeww, I just heard it out loud.
Tri-wing is the best ! Never saw it before.
Half dozen or so of them are just slot or phillips with extra shit, no weird tools needed.
It's not "Phillips/slot" π€£π€£π€£π€£
Where torx superiority
I suppose that's what they mean by "six-lobe".
And I would personally much prefer for everything to be torx rather than Phillips head. Phillips head is designed to let the screw get damaged instead of the screwdriver, whereas torx is designed to reduce the chance of cam-out (and therefore damage to the screw). I'd much rather replace a screwdriver than invent a new way to get out a screw that's been rounded out by repeated cam-outs. Again.
six lobe and it's variants are instruments of the devil, I swear I can't ever get the screw size right for the life of me and get so paranoid about stripping screws.
Hex is fucking stupid.