Yea. I'm not from the US (so an outsider's and probably naive perspective) ...
but the whole Biden thing seems off. Trump is a known quantity. The point of his running, at a basic level and besides vengeance, is to try the MAGA thing again without COVID "interfering". Also, if you think back to the 2020 Dem primaries, where no one was really happy with any candidate and many were asking of the Dems "is that the best you've got" ... a Trump sequel is kinda republicans forcing that question again.
As for all of the attention ... well there's a lot on the line here: Trump's a known quantity ... so, Dems, how you going to defeat him this time? Because ... if you lose to Trump, twice, both times by standing by a party elder ... that's maybe "shame on you". Moreover, we all knew Biden was old. A single term was sorta, kinda part of the deal because of that (remember, he wasn't doing well in the primaries, he never has really). So, has a bargain been broken here? A gamble lost? A mistake, perhaps all the way back in 2020 but certainly behind the decision to run again, come to fruition?
Beyond all of that ... I thought excessive media attention on Trump and the free publicity he gets was a bad thing (he's probably jealous about Biden's media attention lol)?
I agree, and all this happened when Epstein files were unsealed. Why there's no talk about that?
I think Biden promising to increase taxes for the rich doesn't bode well with the rich, because Biden might actually do it.
Ding ding ding! Biden is a threat to the wealthy so the smear campaign is rich capitalists trying to replace Biden with someone they like more, or get tRump back in so they can get tax breaks. They care not for the dangers of fascism cause they'll still make profit, but with fewer regulations and faster.
Also, probably many of those implicated in the Epstein files are extremely wealthy and don't want that info taking center stage at anytime. The wealthy like to see those bank account zeroes increase! Soon as you threaten that, they try to jail, replace, or "remove" them using their near infinite means. The same ones named in those files likely also own local news groups and can influence local and/or regional news.
Bruh the man has over 7 million in real estate, and taken in over $4 million in cash just from Israel Source literally outranking a senator who is on trial currently for accepting literal gold bars and benzs, but you think he is not in their club, old Middle Class Joe is your contemporary and gonna lay down the law, and the shadowy “they” are trying to replace him after he's been literally entrenched in politics for the last 51 years. If politics is so dangerous how has he survived so long, if not for being on the inside?
Literally the senator of Delaware known as the corporate tax haven state.
Joe has basically never been middle class. It's not like senators salaries have gone up a lot but we forget how much inflation has.
That's still upper middle class lol.
Open secrets link is money sent to PACs. Try harder please
How rich must you be to think 7 million in real estate and a salary of 5 million as president is just fucking middle class?
The lack of relatability to any of the standard working class anymore is exactly why the Democrats will lose and they will deserve it unlike the people who suffer.
And it has nothing to do with one of the worst debate performances in history? Really?
People were already hesitant about Biden before this debate. His performance was a wake up call. And nothing that has been done since has made him look any better.
I'm a straight blue ticket voter. That debate solidified my support. Both are old as shit, but we are stuck with them because our voting system sucks. I'll choose the non-rapist, non-felon.
I always focus on how I will view my choices 10+ years down the road. I always regretted voting for bush and McCain. Haven't regretted voting blue since I pulled my head out of my ass.
It’s not the “straight blue ticket” voters we need to be worried about. I’d vote for a Biden with late stage dementia over any variation of Trump.
The worry is that people that don’t always vote, but showed up on 2020 are no longer going to show up because the Trump threat is a distant memory and Biden is such a weak candidate.
And while we all knew Biden was a weak candidate, the historically bad debate performance and everything that has come up since has only shown how truly weak Biden is.
To act like this is all a conspiracy pushed by the wealthy to avoid being taxed and not actual citizens that want a better chance at beating Trump is just silly.
he wasn’t doing well in the primaries, he never has really
Biden did quit well in the primaries. Also, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and the orange felon did bad on their first debates. In fact Obama did horrible. They all went on to win.
Biden has the keys to win this. Switching candidates now will throw the election away. Biden has surrounded himself with good people, he has wisdom and experience. He averted a recession and the economy is rebounding impressively. Why throw that all away?
Allan Lichtman, a historian who has successfully predicted the outcome of the last 10 presidential elections, dismissed the calls to boot Biden from the ballot, telling CNN’s Abby Phillip it would be a “huge mistake” to replace Biden on the ballot. , “Republicans have no principles. Democrats have no spine".
The story behind Professor Allan Lichtman's methodology based on earth quake prediction absolutely is fascinating.
Biden did quit well in the primaries.
With a little help from strategically timed withdrawals and Jim Clyburn, sure.
Seriously people don't want to talk about the split votes that collapsed in suddenly all at the same time for near unanimous backing. Or how most of the opponents got cabinet positions except for Elizabeth Warren who kept saying she was gonna be a VP pick for her dedication to the party and got thrown in the trash like other progressive politicians.
He barely won by a special circumstances but he is the best bet for not changing things for the rich and so they won't possibly let him go without a desperate fight or letting fascists win first.
More importantly, there's nothing you can do to convince someone who's dumb enough to vote for Trump, not to. This is why chasing "swing" voters is a really terrible strategy and always has been. There's literally nothing Trump could say or do to alienate the voters he has now, no one is undecided on Trump.
What determines the outcome for Democrats is the same it's ever been; turn out. It's why Biden won in 2020, it's why the GOP is constantly trying to sabotage and suppress voter registration. And it's why it's critical that Biden steps down, he simply cannot drive the needed turn out now and is unwilling to form a coalition with non-conservative democrats/independents.
It actually did. It wasn't just lies, but he is also losing plot about what he is talking about.
But yeah, I guess that's not much difference in the greater scheme of things.
And “tongue tied” Is a straight up, fucking lie. It was surprising just how bad Biden was in that debate. You are right that trump seems to be consistently shity and incomprehensible.
[Donald Trump] May Not Be Good for America, but [He's] Damn Good for CBS”
-CBS CEO Les Moonves, 2/29/16
And nothing has changed since.
Vote for the administration, not the man.
This is not that difficult. Both of these geezers have been president before. We know what teams they put together, what their agendas are, and the consequences of their administration.
There is only one big fucking faux pas on the Biden administration, and that is their continuing support for Israel's genocidal campaign in Gaza. That is no good, but what is Trump's stance on Gaza? His administration wants to accelerate and intensify support of the genocide.
Both candidates suck as individuals, but only one of the administrations has been competent and generally good for all citizens.
Trump's administration is asking why Israel isn't using nukes
You know, in case anyone had any doubts at all
You know, because nuclear bombs can be contained and certainly don’t carry any irradiated winds that would affect civilian populations only a fence away.
And the minor factor of Iran?
This makes perfect sense,tankies are just zionists riling up the trump base so they can nuke Gaza.
Makes 1000x more sense than what the tankies say they want.
Stop making up paranoid delusional conspiracy to ease your mind of the unfortunate truth that people just don't like him.
People are emotional idiots. Apparently including all of us.
You are right, the Democratic administration is fucking terrible. But its still better than the republicans. Can’t wait to vote third party on the next election cycle when people tell me i can vote how i wish.
You can always vote how you wish. Voting third party in the presidential election is always just a vanity vote. Nothing about the next election will change this. If you want to change it, you're going to have to go out and work from the ground up.
I believe that the Democrat Party is so terrible that the second the republicans ease up, the built up hate against the democrats will make third parties more palatable, or the democrats will take their head out of their collective asses and push left policies.
Even if a third party rises up and unseats a major party, we'll still revert quickly to a two party system and the issue will persist. This is what I mean about it being a vanity vote: it solves nothing.
If you want to dismantle the two party system, you have to change how we vote. That ain't coming from the top down. Get out locally and support groups and policies that push star or ranked choice voting. This is how we get that change.
Voting in a presidential election, as of now, is a strategic decision. For the vast majority of people, that means voting for the "lesser of two evils" as much as we hate it.
Not going to happen locally as long as democrats are in power. So my first order of business is to vote them out. I already mentioned that i was voting Biden i am quite sure
Not going to happen locally as long as democrats are in power.
Well, I have local democrats who are actually pushing the change, so I disagree. However, even if what you say is true, your ability to influence policy is much greater locally, so you can unseat democrats there. My point still stands: voting third party in the presidential election has virtually no hope of solving the problem.
It’s a Democratic platform to oppose RCV and with such excuses as it will confuse the black population. Just… woof…
I was specifically told that i could vote my opinion on the matter after the presidential election, but not a second before.
I was specifically told that i could vote my opinion on the matter after the presidential election, but not a second before.
Wow, really got that talking point and sticking to it.
Its probably the single most consistent message i get here. Its a part of the package of “you can’t talk shit about the democrats because whataboutism or something” and “only democrats are interested in left leaning policies, it’s just not a good time to actually do it right now” or “your vote matters and is worth just as much as everyone else’s” and my favorite “sometimes you just have to accept that the democrats have to be the ones to walk the negotiation table, it’s important to try to win that moderate that is on the fence”
I agree with you all the way up to voting 3rd party.
It has never worked out how everyone thinks it will. Why would this time be different?
We have first past the post here. Meaning first across the finish line. And 2 candidates are neck and neck a few steps from it. You can vote for one of them to pull into the lead a bit OR you can vote for a person still standing at the starting line that has no hope to ever win.
It's wild to me that people don't see that. It's about keeping Trump from winning and ACCELERATING THE GAZA GENOCIDE!!!! There just simply isn't the momentum to elect a 3rd party right now this cycle so close to the end. You have to start that momentum and push WAYYY sooner and be competitive and stay close to the lead or it is over for you.
Voting 3rd party now is like sticking your head in the sand and ignoring reality.
I completely understand that neither main candidate is perfect.
If Trump wins, but your vote could have helped Biden win, how will your conscience handle that? Knowing you could have at least stopped Trump, but didn't? Is feeling good about your vote going to outweigh the reality if Trump wins?
It's like refusing to put out a fire with dirty water so you let the whole building burn down. Let's use the dirty water and stop the fire and THEN clean up the muddy mess from it.
I think we both agree that first past the post is a blight. And the only option to stop that would be either voting third party, or a violent Revolution that sees both parties on the end of a rope. The democrats have killed changing voting to ranked choice at local levels, even after being successfully voted for, because just like republicans they know that not allowing a choice is the only thing giving them power. The second that there is risk free voting for platforms you actually care about, they are fucking done.
Do you guys really not remember anything from the last 3.5 years? I get not liking Trumps admin, but Bidens admin has objectively been so poorly run it makes me wonder if they are fucking everything up intentionally. Biden has to be the worst admin in my lifetime even beating out the George W Bush debacle that got us into two endless wars.
Even a quick glance at your comment history makes my brain hurt. That amount of delusion amd willful ignorance literally has you living in an alternate reality.
I am sorry that reading makes you brain hurt.
You reckon poorly run but you don't give any examples.
What has his administration done worse than the tangerine terrors?
Good question! Off the top of my head; no border control, terrible afghanistan withdrawl (but props he went through with it), pushing us closer to WW3 (see recent new of China doing joint exercises in Belarus), continued reckless spending done by trump, continued funding of Ukraine enabling deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, funding bombs dropped on Gaza, and more!
Border control? Now you know how the native Indians felt. I have no idea why so many Central American countries are unstable, which forces people to migrate to somewhere they perceived as safer for their families.
Afghanistan was baby Bush's mess. Do we blame Nixon for pulling out of Vietnam?
Closer to WW3? Really, I must have missed that memo because I don't see that happening.
Cut funding to Ukraine. Hmmmm... give in to bully Putin you mean. And you bring up China: How would China act on the global stage if they saw the US tucked tail to run in Ukraine? Embolden for sure.
As for Gaza, annoying orange would have bent over backwards to appease AIPAC and glassed Gaza.
But let's ask what the fake tanned arsewiped did for two whole years that he had full control of the house, senate and WH? Tax cut for himself? What else...?
And who can forget the one million dead from covid, because he made it political. No other country in the world suffered the impact the US had. Guess injecting bleach or looking directly at an eclipse without protective glasses on isn't clever.
I love when you guys defend indefensible policies. I can give you a deep dive on any one of these things, but you will just say some random nonsense that you think sounds good.
Indefensible? Like wanting a pedophile, rapist, convicted felon as party leader? What is wrong with you? That's some serious malfunction if you look at him and say "yup, he's dur one fur mee"
I dont want trump as leader, but he is not what you claim. A funny and slightly true quote is a prayer that says "Lord give me the Trump that the left thinks exists." The issue is that you just repeat the same propaganda and it just boring. You dont have anything interesting to say that is why you guys are called NPCs.
Fuck it, I don't mind being called a NPC. After all, nothing I said was untrue.
Except for the pedophile and rapist part you are correct. But FYI if you said all of those things about Biden the only part that wouldnt be true is "convicted felon". The rapist part might be false, but seems to be backed by solid story.
Because literally nobody is suprised by trump as this point. We all know what he is at this point. Biden popped the fascade that has been carefully crafted to keep us all thinking he was doing alright despite being old as fuck.
100%. People want to act like it was a "bad debate performance" but it was absolutely eye opening to the american people. Its not about who won or lost a debate.
And it's not like it's the first of those incidents. He fell off his bike, tripped getting on air force one, had a bunch of press conferences where he did the trailing off in the middle of his answer thing, etc.
And this isn't the only person democrats did this with either. They enabled Dianne Feinstein to run for reelection despite her being at deaths door, there's the RBG debacle, etc.
Democrats need to get better at refreshing the old guard. The only one that did it kind of right is Nancy Pelosi: groom a successor and step aside when the time is right.
Democrats are so ego driven that they think death itself cannot claim them at a moment's notice. I think this is part of the facade of the Democrats people are, unfortunately, going to respond to this election: Democrats, as a party, like to present themselves as being all about compromise and caring. Getting things done for the #AmericanPeople. But when it's time to step down and let others shine in the limelight because you've had your time and the physical realities of age are something you have to acknowledge, or when there might be a better candidate for an election and you have to make the difficult choice of not getting what you want for the good of the country, that fucking sentiment disappears like a fart in the wind.
I love the argument about the bike, have you seen trump on a bike? There's a 99% chance that you don't ride a bike yourself.
BTW: he tripped, because he had to stop to talk with reporters and the predators had straps. It even happened to me and I'm much much younger than him.
Maybe there's millions of qualified people other than Trump and Biden in the US? Why do Americans have to settle for just these 2? Why does Biden get to say he's the only one that could beat Trump, if that's objectively not true?
I can’t think of anyone else who could beat him. I really believed that Clinton could do it, and technically she did, but she didn’t beat him bad enough. A lot of people thought he was just playing himself up to win and wouldn’t be so bad once he got in (myself included). He showed them he wasn’t playing anything up and a vote against him got the largest turnout in history.
I really thought (and prayed, and begged the universe) that Sanders would get a shot.
Damn, what a mess. What a stressful, stressful, mess.
With a gay kid and a trans kid, I really do worry about their future. All we can do is ride the rock and hope for the best though. Well, that and vote against the dude who openly despises certain groups.
Edit:
Why didn’t you 9 name a candidate and why you think they’d win. Come on now, it’s a social forum. Get social.
Edit 2:
Chomp chomp. That’s me eating my words and praying I’m wrong on 7/21
The salient point- Biden does things better DAILY than Trump did in 4 years and we're still somehow focusing on stupid shit.
How many people who previously hadn't been paying attention to the race tuned in and saw the same deterioration they've watched in their own parents and grandparents?
Well the facade was bound to pop eventually, it was just easy to keep when you have done 100 less press events than literally any president in the last 4 decades.
He's been really really just hidden away and relying on good press to do all the talking for him and that's now gone for sure.
Because Trump performed exactly how he has in every previous debate, I'm not saying it was good but it was the same shit level of performance that I expected.
Biden performed horrendously compared to expectations, that's why he gets the focus. Trump lying his ass off just isn't news anymore, I'm not justifying it but it would have been stranger if he hadn't.
I know Trump shouldn't get a pass but the reason Biden is getting so much focus and Trump isn't is pretty obvious. Trump did as Trump does and Biden had a horrible performance.
Biden performed horrendously compared to expectations, that’s why he gets the focus.
Infuriating because people writing these headlines already know this. The entire purpose of these headlines is to deflect the real problem of Biden's inability to fulfill his role as Chief Executive onto "Ah but have you considered Trump is worse?!"
I know Trump shouldn’t get a pass
I don't think he really benefited from the debate either. Its not like anything he said resonated with the audience. It was the standard litany of grumpy old fascist bullshit. His approval rating didn't go up. Nothing he said has endured as a talking point or meme. He didn't even score a good laugh line.
This was a spectacle precisely because Biden was supposed to come out as a powerful voice to rally the mushy indie voters and... he didn't. We have this enormous pool of people who are disgusted with both candidates. Biden didn't put anything on the table to win them over. Trump didn't either. So now we go into the convensions with two of the must unlikable candidates in living memory.
This was a spectacle precisely because Biden was supposed to come out as a powerful voice
Yeah I believe one of the people on the post debate panel said that the Biden team were the ones who pushed for this debate precisely to show that Biden was up to the task of being president again, which he failed at. Fair warning I could be dead wrong on that though.
Trump lying his ass off just isn't news anymore
Therein lies the problem. It should be the ENTIRE news. This is what we get when we let huge companies dictate the "news" and push all this crap about Biden yet basically nothing about Trump.
It's not journalism- it's money.
It should be the ENTIRE news.
You don't think another candidate being like a lost and confused grandpa with Alzheimer deserves at least some part of the news?
Yeah I'm sure articles on Trump lying aren't generating clicks like they used to, gotta get good clickbate somehow.
John Stuart said it best - Trump meet everyone's expectations of him. His followers are either deranged or are just exploiting his madness. Biden was the one with something to prove and he ducking blew it.
He could have been better. But there are more debates. He can come out stronger next time.
That's not how old age works. Biden is not getting better, that's the whole point. This wasn't a political gaffe, it was a consequence of the inevitable collapse of age. Biden needs to step down, literally the only way Dems have a chance to win at this point.
Disagree. He's been a good president and far better than his opponent. His ACTIONS are a million times better than Trump.
I agree, but as Carter showed, being a good president isn't enough to get reelected.
Better then Trump is a low bar and you know it.
No one sane said that he was a bad president (although he could have been a lot better) just that he is too old for the job.
I would say that anyone younger and progressive would do better than him.
That's literally the race
I would trade Biden in for someone ten years older if it meant we'd get a strict and intelligent moderator
You seem to be missing the most important point here - with cognitive decline from advanced age, time is not on your side. Biden would likely be worse in a future debate, if he doesn’t do the right thing and step down immediately.
I disagree. But that's why we vote. So we get that freedom.
He could have been better
Lmao no shit, would've been hard to have been worse
You're right. He could have been Trump.
Didn't Trump gain support from the debate while Biden lost it to the degree that people from his own party are openly calling for him to drop out?
He's still a rapist. So there's that.
I don't think that came up or showed in the debate so probably didn't affect it. This is about the debate performance and its effect after all. If people didn't care about that before the debate, they're not going to suddenly care after it.
You mean I take more information than just a debate to make a decision?
I don't know you so I can't say. But maybe, most do that. But the debate is part of the decision making. In this instance, Biden's performance was dogshit, which was the point. As awful as Trump is, somehow people were more put off by Biden than Trump, if we consider how the polling changed after it. And that's just awful result for Biden.
I don't think it's a measurement of any sort of decision making. I have taken a course in public speaking. People freeze. Or respond differently to a quiet room when there should be an audience. His performance as president is better than Trump's ever will be. It does not measure intelligence. A great public speaker can inspire, but it's one debate. Trump came out looking like a liar and a little boy in a suit. Plus he is a felon rapist. There is nothing that makes me think his "snapshot" is any better than Biden's.
I just don't judge people solely on what the camera captures. It's called critical thinking by most accounts.
I realize all that, but I'm just talking based purely on general public perception and polls over the debate. The whole point of the debate was to get the public and especially fence sitters on your side. I don't know if Trump's behaviour managed to convince anyone that wasn't already on his side, but it was Biden's atrocious performance that managed to get a lot of people against him and some to side with Trump. Biden's whole candidacy is now in question. It's hard to make a worse job in a debate than that, that's all I mean.
I think it could have been worse. It's still early. He could be playing coy too. Rope a dope. Build Trump up with confidence to light him up closer to the end. I don't think that is necessarily the case, but it's a possible strategy. Trump did not look better in my eyes. Biden did not look bad. He did say something whacky. But his composure is much more impressive than Trump's. Trump couldn't even answer a question he was asked 4 times.
The people voting Trump like that about him. Stop pretending like they're after the same voters, they're not.
This article is about media reaction, not social media users.
Shockingly, you'll find the medias audience is made up of those same people that those two candidates are campaigning to. I also don't know where you see me talking about social media?
I think like half of them still mostly want the protest. Like "we'll make things bad so you in your delusions would finally see that it was bad earlier too". Maybe not very logical.
Faced by two bad choices, some people feel it as defiance to pick the worst.
But that's just about humanity, not about USA, I don't know anything about the USA, haven't even been there.
Nobody expected anything else of Trump. Him lying is no longer news. It's just how it is.
At this point, it's clear his base does not read the news outside of their own bubbles, so why do people care that at least in our own bubble we remain critical. Otherwise, it's a continued shift from a vote between full on fascism or a one party state.
Democrats tell us democracy is on the line and many people including myself believe it, but then they push a weak candidate likely to lose merely because his team has lined their pockets with corporate donations and pledged allegiance to Israel. Democrats need to decide if democracy is on the line, or if they lie to their voters and don't care if Trump wins.
Or, billionaires own media and using them to shape public opinion so they can get more corporate friendly candidate.
Biden was perceived as corporate friendly in 2020, but he delivered more worker friendly policies and also is promising to increase taxes on rich
This isn't about getting a more corporate-friendly candidate. It is about beating Trump, plain & simple. Biden's abysmal debate performance wasn't CNN drugging him to instill a new corporate shill for the Democrat-party. The Democrat party is capable of pushing corporate shills themselves already, as they did in 2016.
Speaking of CNN, many people are not aware that CNN changed owner in 2022 to MAGA friendly one. So I would now treat it more like Fox News lite.
Biden supporters in 2024 are sounding a lot like Trump supporters in 2016 by calling all the media outlets fake news now.
Maybe not, but capitalism and fascism want the same things. They don't care about Biden's age, just their wealth and not supporting anyone who threatens that. That's why all the narrative around Biden's age is all we get out of that debate. The wealthy own all means of communication.
There's a reason the saying, "the revolution will not be televised," is relevant. I think you may be missing the plot a little as no one thinks CNN drugged or did anything else to Biden. But the media can make it so the national attention is on Biden. They want him replaced or they want tRump to win.
They're playing chess while a majority of Americans are fighting about who gets the white pieces and who gets the red ones [cause they're playing checkers]!
Biden deserves this loss, he literally said only God would take him out this race, but you know democracy is threatened! So lets run the shittiest candidate possible, and its extra infuriating because Biden/Harris is literally the most unlikeable ticket possible. Harris is even more unlikeable, Ive had numerous people ask me why an Indian girl raised in India and Canda whose crown achievement is locking up marijuana users is doing a BET advert talking about shes out in these streets. It feels like beyond pandering.
Because in a televised debate, people only see performance. It's not like anyone fact-checked Trump, either. Biden tried and failed to meaningfully rebut him, and the moderators didn't even try.
There were moderators? The only people i noticed were 2 seriously overdressed stage hands that handled muting microphones. Other than that it was just Biden and Trump being total embarrassments.
That's what moderators are supposed to do. They aren't judges, or fact checkers. They are supposed to present the questions to the speakers, and manage time, and maybe on occasion ask a followup question. It's the speakers job to respond to questions and their counterpart(s) on stage.
Because we all knew trump would lie. That's not news. What we didn't know, is how far Biden has slipped since 2020.
You know, and I know, but for the low-information voter, you'd be surprised. To many low-information voters, they think Trump occasionally exaggerates because he's braggadocious, and they think Biden is a serial liar because he's an establishment politician.
It's a false equivalence, but his lies need to be pointed out and shown to be false. It's hard, because he Gish Gallops all over the stage, but it needs to be done. Trump needs to be shown as a blatant and malicious liar to the average person. It needs to be made clear that he thinks very little of his base's intelligence, and that he's taking them for a ride.
Low-info voters won't read the news and shun any media that doesn't come straight out of trump puckered anus lips. Why would the news target that demographic? Or a better way to put it: News that targeted that demographic with that messaging were unable to compete with other news organizations.
*edit because we're incredibly tense, not loose
Because Biden was the 'electability' candidate, and he's looking pretty fucking un-electable.
The argument against swapping out candidates with 4 months to go is ostensibly because it's not enough time to campaign, but that's the reason Biden needs to be tapped out. Whoever is running needs to be able to clearly prosecute the case against Trump, but Biden can't even deliver a coherent sentence. Even when he's reading off prompter he's flubbing words, missing cues, and can barely remember who's still alive and who's already dead. We can't just hope people will read between the broken sentences; Biden needs to be able to campaign for himself. Turnout will be so fucking low if he doesn't do his fucking job, and that will be nobody's fault but his and the DNC's if they don't fucking do something now.
Quit complaining about how the press is reporting on his flubs; they're not inventing that problem whole-cloth, Biden is clearly not doing well. People should be irate that the white house and the DNC have been ignoring this issue that's been growing steadily for the last 3 and a half years.
We *lose if we do nothing about this. Fullstop.
How loose are we though?
I do be so loose
Harris needs to get out there and campaign hard.
DNC doesn't care and pretending they do is pointless.
“The World”?
I think you mean the press, and that press focus is the problem.
Somebody should plot a chart of media company revenues vs. political candidates and compare it with the stories they run.
I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect there may be some cross-correlation.
Oh you’re spot on. Trump likes to go on about his ratings, but even people who wouldn’t vote for him in a million years watch him. He’s entertaining. I don’t suppose it would be so bad if so many people didn’t see him as more than entertaining.
I’ve been guilty of it for 9 years now. “What crazy thing will Trump do next?” I used to sit when something would happen and refresh his twitter page because I knew that whatever he was about to do, it was going to be thoroughly entertaining.
I’ve found myself thinking, “this can’t be real” so many times.
You couldn’t give me anything to give him a vote because I don’t think he’s the right man for the job. I can see why a lot of people do. There have always been people who believe that leaders should lead through shows of strength. I get it, but I believe that leaders should lead through intelligence. A leader should be calm, collected, strategic, and intelligent. I just don’t see Donald Trump as any of those things. I see him as impulsive and a threat to the progress that so many people have fought for.
Biden’s performance at the debate has me terrified. It would have taken him sitting there drooling on the ground to frighten me enough to vote for Trump. I’m really hoping all the people who showed up in 2020 feel the same way. The damage an angry Trump could do this time could be irreparable. We all seen the “save America” rally and everything that followed. We’ve seen his stacked courts give him the power of a king. Take a moment and watch the videos of him recording his message to the people on Jan 6 if you haven’t seen it. Not the message itself, but the process of recording it.
I’ll shut up now. Y’all be good. :p
They could Weekend at Bernie's Biden and I'd still vote for him over trump. He could be a fucking desiccated corpse, and as long as someone is there to move his stiff wrist across bills on his desk, he's still a magnitude better.
Dems and leftists can rightfully bemoan this old fuck leading us again, but holy shit we are dealing with either an embarrassing but mostly effective fogey or a guy who wants to be the fucking emperor and is gleefully planning the literal destruction of our democracy as we know it.
The choice is so easy.
Because everyone knows that Trump is garbage and republicans are complicit. We're hoping Democrats will challenge Biden
Because Trump did nothing unexpected for him - if anything he was more restrained than usual - but Biden is showing greater signs of senility. News reports things that are new, more at 11.
This. Plus that Trump will never back out and I doubt the Republican Party would have the strength to force him. On the other hand. getting a better suited candidate then Biden appeared to be somewhat possible for a moment, but I'd say that moment is probably over.
It's also harder to force Trump out, he actually won a real primary. Republicans would have to copy Democrats and argue that they can choose anyone they want regardless of votes.
Because the right doesn't care that trump lied, and the left does care that Biden can't speak.
And the right wing media wants to do is suppress the left wing voters, and the left wing media knows that people are exhausted after 8 years talking about Trump lying so the Biden thing is better for viewership
Because everyone expects trump to lie.
Continually, repeatedly and with wild abandon.
People noticed Biden's stumble BECAUSE it was out of the norm
With trump it was the same old shit he always says
It wasn't out of the norm, it's just up till that point all the gaffs were smaller audience and MSM and online CTR types constantly saying things like "he's got a stutter!" or "you're just ageist!" and the debate was much more obvious and watched by enough that those deflections aren't working anymore.
I held my nose and voted Biden last election BTW, we just should have faced the facts that he's clearly been in cognative decline and put in place steps to have a successor prepared, but the party decided it had to be Biden and here we are.
You held your nose to vote for the objectively better candidate who has gone on to do more for the progressive movement than any other president ever.
I have to say that shit like that constantly being said can't possibly help either. Constant negativity at every stage no matter what; great look.
Bernie would have been better on literally every front and he was fucked by the DNC and the elites.
Saying Biden has been the most progressive president is honestly hilarious to me, like did you know FDR existed? Ever looked into some of the glorious policies in that time?
Trump is literally a wannabe evil dictator, so yeah Biden is clearly the better candidate, but let's be real here please.
It's not correct to say Biden has been more progressive than FDR, especially for the time. However, it's also not "hilarious" to mistake the number 2 for the number 1. Policy-wise Biden has been enormously good for the working class and it's not honest to say otherwise. Also, FDR had almost 4 terms and never openly sided with a union over a corporation like Biden did.
What union did Biden openly side with? If it's the rail one I'm thinking of, he broke the strike and forced them back... So...
What other progressive policies has Biden implemented?
(Serious question)
I do know about the student loan stuff, which was killed, did raise the minimum wage for federal workers, which is nice but also just a small improvement. Roe v Wade is out now (not directly his fault ofc) and I haven't seen any overall improvements/changes on that front.
UAW.
NLRB appointments that are top notch, FTC appointments that are top notch, the ones you mentioned, improved overtime 1.5x pay regulations, LOTS of infrastructure spending for public transport, lots of antitrust in the tech sector specifically regarding privacy and data brokering, strict regulations against Airlines and banks who apply hidden fees and predatory return/overdraft loan interest policies as well as specific mortgage loan practices which result in surprise rate increases, and he might be structuring for Marijuana decriminalization, it's already down to schedule 3 from schedule 1. Most of his accomplishments are tied to his agencies and some smart appointments to them, and it is a big reason the Supreme Court is trying to gut them.
His executive orders have been much more measured than Obama's and Trump's, for better or for worse. He doesn't seem to want the supreme court to slap down everything he does, but that's a neoliberal for you.
I see your point, I guess my stance is a lot of those feel like neolib small steps, which aren't nothing for sure, just hard to say they're actually progressive, as most progressive ideals I align with require much larger changes to structure in general. Neolib policies are partially what brought us to this place (of course the GOP ghouls tearing it all down every other presidency doesn't help...) I think a lot of it ends up feeling like the dems promise a lot and then under deliver every time, but they clearly don't cheerlead the wins they do make enough either. Feels like they're constantly just trying to fight off right wing narratives instead, which is clearly just a waste of time as they will misrepresent and straight lie as much as possible.
The media is only focused on one.
Biden didn't get tongue tied. He couldn't form complete sentences and kept losing his train of thought. Look at his videos from 2019. He was talking just fine, but still was a gaff machine.
And Biden didn't even have the awareness to push back on the lies! He fucking argued with him over fucking Golf!
The billionaire owners of the media have a vested interest in Trump’s agenda.
Biden administration tax policy proposals have the billionaires pissed off.
Vested interest in any government that doesn't threaten their wealth. Capitalists always thrive in fascism.
Billionaires own all the news outlets
Yeah, this does feel a bit astroturfed, I think they don't like his promises of increasing taxes on rich and strengthening protections for workers.
And exposure from the Epstein Files being unsealed.
Don’t forget thats how we got Joe in the first place, lost all the first dem primaries in 2020, while the media kept saying don’t count him out because reasons, while literally hiding wins by Bernie and other dems. I wonder where all these people come from that think a confirmed liar Source and has been in politics so long he supported and advocated for segregation Source that raised $127 million just last month Source is somehow being targeted by corporate interests and needs to be protected?
Because the people surrounding Biden are good at their jobs. Each has a weakness: Trump is a liar and Biden is old and forgetful. Trump's people made no effort to hide Trump's weakness, but Biden's people did a good job of hiding it up to the debate. That people are surprised is a good sign that Biden surrounded himself with competent people - but also this is what debates are suppose to do, reveal the true candidates to the nation.
Or maybe unlike basically any president before him in modern times Biden has the lowest public appearance rate and the least press meetings since fucking Reagan and he even had more with his early onset dementia.
Biden has literally hidden from view and hoped decorum and order would see him through to a second term and it's not working especially when he comes south of the shadows and drops a debate like what we saw.
Honestly the people around Biden aren't competent either. They are just rich people from prestigious colleges who "yes and" and want to stay influential and paid. They do their job which is more than Trump's cabinet but none of them are some heroic savior of this terrible presidential election no matter how much you want it to be.
Appease the thoughts of him losing however you want but that won't stop it either.
Because one was par for the course while the other was very unexpected.
Person 1 who missed the debate: How'd the debate go?
Person 2 who watched it: Well Trump lied thru his teeth for every answer.
Person 1 sarcastically: Wow what a shocker 🙄 and how did Biden do?
Person 2: Well he answered the question about abortion by ranting about an immigrant woman dying at the border.
Well he answered the question about abortion by ranting about an immigrant woman dying at the border.
No no. Far worse.
How an immigrant murdered this woman who was pregnant. And that there's lots of it. Maybe? And then rambling about women being raped all the time by their family.
But at least that was before they both started arguing just fine about golf handicaps.
Because the Far Right owns the "Liberal" Media
Biden really is just full on running Trump's 2016 campaign huh?
When's he gonna start yelling about Trump's emails?
Trump lying is no news. He performed as everyone expected.
Because undecided fucktards are all that matter. And they’ll be swayed by trump’s bullshitting.
"Every vote matters, except for that one, or that one, or that group, and those should just vote with me because I am right."
That's not how it works. There are electoral votes we need, there are votes we need to get those electoral points. You can't just hand wave it all away and call it a different problem to solve.
We have to play the game as it's currently playing out. You can just pull out monopoly money in solitaire to try and bribe the deck into giving you an ace.
We need the votes that Biden does not have and won't get acting like he is.
Fucking take a step back, take a deep breath, and consider for a second if I meant what you think I meant.
The context of the conversation is mainstream media. I'm talking about what matters to mainstream media. I'm critiquing mainstream media.
It sounds more like Biden’s bullshitted facade is falling apart, and he was such trash even Trump looks better.
They don’t understand the more they rally around Biden, the more likely he stays, and the more likely Trump wins.
Fuck off
Trump getting no pushback for lying for 1 hour and not actually any questions is a real issue. Trying to say Biden was tongue-tied is way too generous. His mind was spinning up like old 90 computer hardrives. It took awhile for him to reply to anything. If this debate was taken seriously, Trump wouldn't have gotten to sit up there and do that for all that time.
Because when the nation's facing its greatest threat since at least the Civil War, your chosen defender should be a beacon of hope, not a quivering old man.
I love Joe Biden. He's done great things for this country, and his administration has been excellent overall, despite being very bad at communicating it's successes. But it's time for him to rest on his laurels.
Senility is coming fast, and the Republicans are absolutely murdering him on this point. It's by far the strongest play they have, and by choosing a different candidate that's not in their 9th decade of life we can gut that argument.
RBG refused to retire and as a consequence we have the worst Court in the history of the country. Biden is refusing to retire, and as a consequence we're likely to lose our Democracy entirely in 5 months.
It's not too late to change candidates. It's only in the last few decades that the candidate was known ahead of the convention. We can and should pick someone younger that can turn the narrative of "crazy old man" around on the also-ancient Donald Trump.
Everyone I talk to laments about how terrible both candidates are. How about we swap Joe out for someone who is at least mediocre?
The strongest argument I've heard against changing is that Ohio requires a candidate to be registered before the Democratic convention. Fucking Ohio. Who let them be a swing state?
Ohio isn't in play. But also this isn't new. They've had that deadline for a while. The DNC set it up this way knowing it would be one more barrier to switching candidates.
That makes the convention irrelevant. The DNC hurt itself in confusion.
My beacon of hope is the people oldman Joe surrounds himself with and his party. Putting it on one guy is absurd.
The RGB comparison is also bad.
Admirable position, unfortunately 80 million other voters don’t have this nuanced position… and we need them to win.
That's not the concept the average American has of the President though and this isn't 1984. We're not going to just elect Bush after a caretaker term for Reagan. We need someone who has the energy to do all the normal president stuff and fight on the home front. Because we're fast approaching the point of a Christian insurgency.
Yeah but it's not about you. Other people exist and you won't change their mind through any amount of talk.
MAGA will vote for Trump no matter what. Democrats would rather vote for a corpse than vote for Trump. Which means we don't need Biden to save democracy: anyone will do.
I don’t understand how anyone… ever …can reconcile that Biden has let through 9.000.000+ illegal immigrants in a few short years and already begun to the social unrest as a result…
But further to that we can see the elections system remains easily defrauded, suggesting issues that could result in illegal immirants getting away with voting and having their vote counted…
The only way I can see Bidens actions and inactions being a good thing is he seems to be rapidly accelerating the totality of collapse that can bring the country to essentially civil war and a breaking up of the states between red and blue … which could result in more of an EU situation
Yeah, we're gonna need a citation on that 9,000,000 number.
looks around
Gonna need one for that "social unrest" too.
I mean I keep seeing articles of people being murdered by illegal immigrants, is it pure scare mongering?
And I’m really quite surprised I’d be upvoted by this as anyone that enjoys freedom and a good quality of life should really understand what’s going on
is it pure scare mongering?
Yes
Yes it is pure scare mongering, that is how most media makes money. You are more likely to be murdered by your parents than an immigrant. What do you mean by "what's going on?" I enjoy freedom and good quality of life, which is why I think borders shouldn't exist.
What’s going on? You have open borders, completely open, border control is a formality for the airports. Anyone from any motivation can walk into the states freely unchecked, unquestioned, unchallenged, for free; undocumented… since Biden laxed the laws dramatically… and on top, taxpayer money is being spent supporting these immigrants. Truly truly mind boggling stuff.
I’ve literally watched live streams of the endless flood coming across.
America is under attack by its own government policy, it’s like you’ve fought wars before but never such an internal war.
It’s the woke mind virus, it’s a cancer of the mind… it’s so sad to watch unfold
It is one of America's ideals to help people everywhere find a better life and live the 'American dream.' You don't support this patriotic ideal? Thousands of refugees from the endless global wars that the US helps initiate come to our borders to find salvation. I gladly pay taxes to help needy immigrants because that is supposedly one of the foundational elements of 'America'.
But we are ruled by the wealthy who trick average people to be mad at immigrants instead of wage theft, wealth redistribution, unchecked global atrocities and war crimes done in the name profit, Raytheon et al and the military-industrial complex. I have been to the border, my friends and family have a lot of experience in border towns and there is no dangerous immigrant invasion going on like portrayed by the media. And what open borders? Biden has deported more people than Trump.
I have such a strong disagreement on the idea of Biden being better with illegal immigration than trump that I’m convinced you’re a Russian bot intended to post pro Biden rhetoric as he’s done more damage to America than any nuke could ever achieve
It's not an 'idea', there is hard data showing the numbers of people deported. Trump hates immigrants too though, I'm not saying either one is better or worse on immigration. How am I intending to post pro-Biden rhetoric? Biden is a genociding racist that should be charged with war crimes.
I’ll upvote just so I can understand what is going on?
Mods, I’m not trolling. I’d really like to help this person.
Yes, we know that conservatives constantly foam at the mouth at the thought of collapse or inciting violence.
Specifically, focussing on two related things only, the illegal immigration and the proven loopholes for Voting/election fraud.
These pillars of democracy ate important and real… no one is foaming at the mouth for collapse, on the contrary… conservatives and non conservatives alike want freedom and peaceful respectable lives
Can you give us some examples of election fraud?
You think the illegal population has increased by over 70% in 3 years? How does one get to be this gullible to propaganda?
You can see the footage of it, and the stats, you don’t have to try hard either, YouTube shows the endless sea flooding in daily, and then states are giving them money and a bunch of handouts. This is real, this is happening, like how long can you keep your head in the sand for
YouTube videos aren't really great proof of anything. A bunch of YouTube videos get debunked daily. I also haven't found any stats of 9 million illegal immigrants, can you point me in the right direction?
We already know trump sucks. He shouldn't be running for pres, he should probably be in prison. We're focusing on biden because he's also unfit, and we're afraid he can't beat trump. This isn't rocket surgery.
Because this election isn't going to be decided by hard core Democrats and only one person on that stage looked mentally incompetent. And I understand he's not, but man is that going to be a helluva thing to prove to people who don't watch politics. People who tuned into the debate because they were undecided.
BOY DID HE EVER FUCKING LIE.
Sounds like something a Palestinian would say! /s
That entire exchange was racist, and no one called it out. Everyone on stage is a Zionist.
Imagine if Trump had called Biden a Jew. They’d be screaming antisemitism.
Question I've been asking since the debate.
I'm Canadian, and Trump and his Project 2025 scares the ever loving crap out of me.
Why doesn't it scare you guys?
It does, that's why we want a stronger candidate than Biden. Everyone already knows where Trump stands on things and has for years at this point so shining a light on it does not help. It shouldn't even be close and yet it is because the Dems keep trying to jam candidates no one likes down our throats.
Personally speaking I don’t think the wealthy elite of the US will back a fascist coup anytime soon. In all the history of fascism, it’s usually only been supported by the powers that be when said powers are threatened by an organized radical left. No such left really exists in the US. Until that time, I expect nothing to fundamentally change about the slow decline of the US and the two party system.
"Tongue tied"
Dead.jpg
It is so funny they talk about the look and presentation when its so much easier to just spew out whatever is at tip of your brain with no care about veracity.
Trump lies so often that it's no longer newsworthy to point it out. Even if Biden had debated well, the media probably wouldn't have even scratched 5% of Trump's falsehoods in a fact check and just focused on soundbytes of Trump saying dumb shit as usual.
It doesn't fucking help that the right have been repeating a lie about Biden having dementia and, regardless of what the actual cause of his poor performance was on debate night, he put wind in their sails and essentially "proved them right all along" with his hoarse voice and incoherent train of thought. The seed has been planted and now some will start to wonder that if the Republicans were right about that, then what other farfetched nonsense could they also be right about?
It's been 12 days since the debate and people are still talking about how bad it was. I'm pissed that the Biden team is treating this as if it's no big deal when this one event was an absolute torpedo to his campaign that he might not recover from if he can't convince both the Democratic establishment and the Democratic electorate that he is capable of doing another 4 years.
I'm worried about Biden's chances because he won in 2020 while Trump's atrocious term was still fresh in everyone's minds. People apparently have short fucking memories because they all want to go back to Trump mismanaging the country and potentially ending free elections forever just to shave 30 cents off the price of eggs at the supermarket. Biden is still coasting on the policy-agnostic idea that the people will reject Trump more strongly than they will approve of him and I think that's a huge mistake. He needs to be hammering his achievements home and also talking about stats from the Trump era and how they were great when Obama left office, terrible when Biden took office (due to Trump's admin) and now improving thanks to him. That makes the best case for re-election, more than just convincing everybody to not vote for the openly fascist candidate because there's no realistic alternative.
Because everyone knew Trump would lie constantly, that's all he ever does. Biden used to be an eloquent, confident public speaker, but that has changed drastically in the last 4 years. We also know that reporting on Trump's lies doesn't slow or stop them and definitely doesn't change his supporters' minds. If anything, reporting constantly on the lies he tells just gives him more screen-time to spread them. Also, the world really needs Trump to lose, so if the only guy available to do so is seemingly physically unable, it makes sense to talk about options.
Giving Trump more air time just makes more people know about Trump.
We can't hide the Democrat candidate for fear of his public appearance hitting his ratings and also try to parade him around as competent. It turns into telling not showing and any film major can tell you that's a crappy movie that no one will buy.
People need to see a guy who looks like they can handle a job and hear about it. To much begging on Trump just brings us back to Trump.
News feeds on drama so they have to foment turmoil. Also, every news source of consequence has a trump donor CEO (even the liberal biased ones)...so....
i like destinys take on trump "because nobody fucking cares"
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Here’s a summary: Not only did Trump repeatedly lie, but he also delivered nonsensical responses and non-answers lacking any insight into his policy plans.
For example, when moderator Jake Tapper asked what he would do to make child care more affordable, the presumptive GOP nominee initially dodged the question.
Later, when Trump was given an opportunity at the debate to address voter concerns over his mental fitness, the 77-year-old offered two points to alleviate the public’s fears.
Also of concern on the debate stage, Trump didn’t commit to unconditionally accepting the election results and underscored his intentions to seek political retribution.
Commentator Kaivan Shroff remarked that the media has chosen to “ignore Trump being a convicted felon, racist, nutjob, etc” while journalist Sophia Nelson said on CNN that she believed it’s fair to question Biden after his performance, but warned of the “pile-on” against him.
“It’s frankly astonishing that we have no less than eight op-ed pieces calling for Biden to drop out after a bad debate, but we had zero after any one of Trump’s convictions,” journalist Victoria Brownworth wrote.
The original article contains 1,174 words, the summary contains 181 words. Saved 85%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Because everyone who owns the news is rich and the republicans like rich people and are also gonna lower their taxes
Biden lied about israel accepting a ceasefire and Hamas rejecting it.
Why has no Democrat ever mentioned this?
Because their "ceasefire" proposal is the same as Russia's was : lay down and give us complete control of your territory, and we reserve the right to continue killing you afterwards.
That's not a treaty, that's imperialism backed by murder.
With all due respect, of which I feel very little is actually due, fuck that.
And Trump has said that Israel should "just finish the job".
What makes you think that he will lift a finger to help the Palestinian people?
And what about your Congress and Senate? Aren't they the ones who send the money and arms to Israel?
Shouldn't you be on their collective ass?
This dilemma would be a lot easier if Trump was the one complicit in Genocide right now and we just had to vote him out. You wouldn't believe the rallies we would see against Trump if he was the one in the driver seat today
Not sure if cosplaying as a Republican was the play for Biden.
Lied continually. Like multiple times.
The GoP won't disparage their boy.
The DNC just doesn't have the same manpower, thousands of underpaid people and bad AI and american volunteers, and without all that manpower can't keep up on the "but his stammer" / "both sides" bullshit.
Because Americans value being loud and confident over everything else. That's why Trump has been able to be so successful here despite being a hateful moron.
Because Assholes value being loud and confident over everything else. That's why Trump has been able to be so successful here despite being a hateful moron.
Not all Americans share these “values”
I know, but American culture in general very much does.
I'm sorry but I don't see it or hear it. I don't like Trump but this looks like the kind of propaganda where they just blatantly lie about a video. It relies on our brains expecting something to be there so it makes it up. You defeat it by getting the accusation but then skipping to the video so you don't hear the accusation ten times before watching it. So in summary Trump supposedly pauses, strains, and then there's an audio component. I didn't observe any of the three elements.
Tongue tied isn't the same as what happened with Biden on the debate night. It's theoretically possible for Trump to stop lying or at least restrain himself, because it's not a physical ailment that only gets worse as time goes by. Compare 2020 debate Trump vs 2024 debate Trump and you'll see how much better he was this time. Biden on the other hand has no control over what is going on with him, and it doesn't get better with age, only goes the opposite direction. He did good during his 4 years, but he's only tarnishing his legacy by running again. He should quit while he's ahead.
Trump is almost as old as Biden and probably more senile. It's not just lying, Trump has a complete lack of understanding about how anything in the government functions. He only sounds coherent to many people because he literally says nothing.
If you re-watch the debate, you'll see Biden actually responds to questions about his policies and platform. Trump never comes close. Part of that is probably because he has no platform, but largely because I don't think he's capable of answering those questions.
Senile has a very specific meaning, and while Trump is a number of things, he's nowhere near as senile as Biden yet. Biden lost trains of thought constantly, and tried to find a fitting word to complete his sentence, jumped from one subject to another, and ended up beating medicare. Just watch Biden in the 2020 debate and now. Tell me you don't see an astounding difference.
Do yourself a favor and watch some of Trump's "rallies" this year. It's quite clear he's fucking out of it.
Cool… cool. We’re just gonna ignore the sitting President has dementia. What’s for dinner?
Sure but Trump seems to have soiled himself during the debate. There are videos discussing this going around.
I don’t care if Presidents poop, I do require the “leader of the free world “ to be able to process thoughts.
Well Trump can certainly process foods
hamberders and Diet Coke.
Because you're the one pushing them. And they're shit videos.
Lol, look how much people comes out of the shell when you start playing their same game. The video seemed authentic to me, and Trump has a history of shitting himself according to people that worked with him.
Ok boomer
Ok beta
You should look up what dementia actually entails. It's not a joke to be thrown at people who are just simply old and can't articulate the way they used to. Which was the case with Biden.
It's an insult to those who suffer from the disease and belittles their struggles.
Can't articulate the way they used to? The man lost his thought and then switched topics to say we beat medicare. He devolved into a golf pissing contest on national TV. He gave Trump unneeded openings on things like The Afghanistan Withdrawal.
He might not have dementia but don't try and tell us he was all there, just unable to articulate properly.
They’re also not a President who won’t submit to a cognitive test, so spare me your outrage. Do you know that the 82 year old doesn’t have dementia?
My point is that dementia is a very specific disease that is debilitating and if Biden came within a golf shot of having it he never would have mounted that stage.
Honestly, Trump displays more things symptomatic of dementia than Biden does. Biden is just displaying old age. And yeah, he's fucking old. But then, Trump is only 2 years younger than his old ass.
Doctors generally don’t use senility anymore. Regardless, if there’s even a chance that Biden has this condition, he shouldn’t stay in the race.
You missed the point yet again. If there was even a chance that he had dementia he wouldn't have been on that stage you dumbass.
You seem upset about this. I am too. But getting angry at others doesn’t help. The politicians that put us in this situation like it when we’re angry with each other. It redirects our anger for them to each other.
Take care.
Being a condescending prick doesn't improve your position. Piss off.
That was not my intent. Sorry if it came off that way. Displaced anger can be curbed.
Autocratic leaders rely on displacement as a way to divide groups and redirect anger that could potentially be directed at government leadership. Helping to displace anger is cited in a 10-point checklist on how to become an authoritarian leader. A review of the history of any autocracy highlights such displacement, accompanied by fueling fear, as a core strategy for strengthening and maintaining authority.
Correction: pedantic condescending prick.
Just trying to help.
Oooo look at the pretty gaslight!
REALLY? THE PAID FOR BY THE ALT RIGHT MASS MEDIA ISN'T GOING AFTER TRUMP, ONLY ATTACKING MINOR SHIT BIDEN DOES AND ACTING LIKE IT'S A HUGE PROBLEM? YOU DON'T FUCKING SAY.
Fuck this country.
I'm so tired of pundits pretending the media is being unfair to Biden. He literally said he was the first black woman to be vice president today, and most outlets chose not to cover it. The media has been going exceptionally easy on Biden, which is why so many Americans were shocked to hear how incoherent and rambling he'd become, even compared to Trump. The media isn't covering this because they suddenly want to destroy Biden; they're covering it because the floodgates have opened and they have no choice but to acknowledge it.
Listening to this for the first time, and I don't hear him say he's the black woman. He starts saying something, then changes mid sentence and says, "like I said, the first black woman vice president, served with a black president, first black woman chief justice". Are you saying he says he's also the first black woman chief justice? There's legitimately many concerning things he has said due to his mental issues, but this is just nitpicking.
Except that's not what he said. His exact words were:
I'm proud to be, as I said, the first Vice President...the first black woman, to serve with a Black President.
Now, do I think that means he was so confused he thought he was the country's first Vice President, and also a black woman who served with the first black President? No, obviously he meant that he was the Vice President to the first black President, and was President with the first black woman to be Vice President.
But do I think this is another example of him being unable to follow a train of thought long enough to complete a coherent sentence? Absolutely, yes.
That video was stupid. Confused himself with the VP or just misspoke? Silly.
Yeah, and if he wasn't on a press blitz because he went on TV and looked like a confused grandpa during a national debate, it'd be a silly flub, not another example of his cognitive decline.
In an interview with questions his team fed to the interviewer no less.
Exactly. Since the debate, he's been exposed to very safe, very controlled media events, and he's still underperforming. This is extremely bad.
This was inevitable. Years of gaslighting was extremely bad.
I thought Biden was sick, or was it tired? Now it's tongue tied? The DNC is literally handing Trump the WH by refusing to acknowledge they are propping up a vegetable
TIL you can only be one at a time.
Not when the story keeps changing
Orrrrr yes tired and a cold, that's not a ludicrous combination lol. And he's always had a stutter, which yes can come out in many ways.
Announcing that you beat Medicare isn't a cold symptom.
"Don't you think he looks tired" isn't a great talking point in favor of your candidate.
Listening to liberals still defending Biden is like listening to Republicans in their cult like worship for Trump
Plenty of FOSS social media here, why not explore another comment thread? 🥾
Oh, you're a contrarian who is only here for drama? Shocker 🥱
So dishonest lmao. Nobody thinks he's a fucking banger of a candidate. Nobody is leaping for joy to vote for fucking Joe Biden. His faults are myriad and obvious. There is no worship. You have the choice between an actual despot and grampa Joe. That's it.
They are both despots, those are your choices. I, and many others, refuse to participate in failed politics which only serve the wealthy
This is just reductive. Look at any of the policies from the D's that benefit all of us, women, the poor. Waste your vote and enable fascism. Feel free.
edit: and the gays... and education... and taxes... and infrastructure... and climate... and migration...
Fascism has been here, you just prefer yours covert
gays... and education... and taxes... and infrastructure... and climate... and migration...
If they cared about any of those issues theyve had decades to address them, yet you settle for bread crumbs.
And you would settle for Trump? How is that better? Our system has changed incrementally since its inception. I would vote for a socialist if they existed. The only party which remotely aligns with my ethics is the Democrats. What solution do you offer? Vote third party? Be a passive participant in project 2025 rather than an active voter for the significantly lesser of two evils?
You can take a respectable philosophical stance in a vacuum, but you're not helping anyone in the real world. You're a participant in creating harm, imo.
Edit: The dems have created real policies which help real people. Look as far back as FDR. Look at Obamacare, insulin caps, gay marriage rulings. Then look at bathroom bills, or like, anything R's are pushing lol
Im not settling for anyone, trump is absolute garbage, but while the DNC has you terrified of Trump they are upholding the same views and policies as republicans. Everything they do is to protect capital and most times at our expense.
Lesser evil is a myth liberals tell themselves to justify doing what they know is harm.
Just so you know, everything FDR passed in social and workers rights came from socialist Francis Perkins. And the reason we havent seen anything like it since is because democrats actively fight those efforts. Their role is not to defeat republicans but prevent leftist orgs and movements from gaining power.
Trump has me terrified of Trump, not the DNC.
Lesser evil is a myth liberals tell themselves to justify doing what they know is harm.
I think it's far more varied than that. There are some "true" leftists in the Democratic party. I would much prefer ranked choice voting, proportional representation, etc. to represent all views. Moreover, the "lesser evil" is not merely an invention of the DNC -- it's what I view as objective reality. One side really does happen to be worse than the other. Either way we eat a shit sandwich, but one is gourmet shit and comes with the faint hope that one day I will be eating more palatable shit on perhaps higher quality bread.
Thanks for the tidbit on Perkins. Do you have more information on how dems are fighting against socialism actively? From what I can tell, they are frequently trying to package "socialist" policies in way the average red-scare American can swallow (re:obamacare, market controls, regulation, etc.).
At the end of the day, the choice is truly between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. There is zero (0.00%) room for anything else in the year of 2024. Short of a revolution, incremental change is what we are working with, and I will go to the polls to vote blue whether I have a grin or grimace on my face.
While I could see the wisdom in not propping up a vegetable, I'm not sure acknowledging that they are propping up a vegetable is any more of a "winning strategy".
They need to count their losses while they still have time.
Your loyalty to Joe biden won't get Him reelected, in fact it will do the exact opposite, denial of reality will come smacking hard the day of election, because the election will be sealed by the unaffiliated undecided electors, and Biden's mental acuity won't win them over.
"loyalty." Heh. I'm not loyal to Biden. I would prefer another viable candidate. But unfortunately, here we are. I don't have another viable democratic candidate. The party doesn't have another viable candidate.
So I'm going to vote Biden. Mainly because I absolutely do not want Trump.
That's the new narrative they're pushing -- that it's about loyalty to Biden and not action against Trump.
Because nothing about Trump has changed.
Yea. I'm not from the US (so an outsider's and probably naive perspective) ...
but the whole Biden thing seems off. Trump is a known quantity. The point of his running, at a basic level and besides vengeance, is to try the MAGA thing again without COVID "interfering". Also, if you think back to the 2020 Dem primaries, where no one was really happy with any candidate and many were asking of the Dems "is that the best you've got" ... a Trump sequel is kinda republicans forcing that question again.
As for all of the attention ... well there's a lot on the line here: Trump's a known quantity ... so, Dems, how you going to defeat him this time? Because ... if you lose to Trump, twice, both times by standing by a party elder ... that's maybe "shame on you". Moreover, we all knew Biden was old. A single term was sorta, kinda part of the deal because of that (remember, he wasn't doing well in the primaries, he never has really). So, has a bargain been broken here? A gamble lost? A mistake, perhaps all the way back in 2020 but certainly behind the decision to run again, come to fruition?
Beyond all of that ... I thought excessive media attention on Trump and the free publicity he gets was a bad thing (he's probably jealous about Biden's media attention lol)?
I agree, and all this happened when Epstein files were unsealed. Why there's no talk about that?
I think Biden promising to increase taxes for the rich doesn't bode well with the rich, because Biden might actually do it.
Ding ding ding! Biden is a threat to the wealthy so the smear campaign is rich capitalists trying to replace Biden with someone they like more, or get tRump back in so they can get tax breaks. They care not for the dangers of fascism cause they'll still make profit, but with fewer regulations and faster.
Also, probably many of those implicated in the Epstein files are extremely wealthy and don't want that info taking center stage at anytime. The wealthy like to see those bank account zeroes increase! Soon as you threaten that, they try to jail, replace, or "remove" them using their near infinite means. The same ones named in those files likely also own local news groups and can influence local and/or regional news.
Bruh the man has over 7 million in real estate, and taken in over $4 million in cash just from Israel Source literally outranking a senator who is on trial currently for accepting literal gold bars and benzs, but you think he is not in their club, old Middle Class Joe is your contemporary and gonna lay down the law, and the shadowy “they” are trying to replace him after he's been literally entrenched in politics for the last 51 years. If politics is so dangerous how has he survived so long, if not for being on the inside?
Literally the senator of Delaware known as the corporate tax haven state.
Joe has basically never been middle class. It's not like senators salaries have gone up a lot but we forget how much inflation has.
That's still upper middle class lol.
Open secrets link is money sent to PACs. Try harder please
How rich must you be to think 7 million in real estate and a salary of 5 million as president is just fucking middle class?
The lack of relatability to any of the standard working class anymore is exactly why the Democrats will lose and they will deserve it unlike the people who suffer.
And it has nothing to do with one of the worst debate performances in history? Really?
People were already hesitant about Biden before this debate. His performance was a wake up call. And nothing that has been done since has made him look any better.
I'm a straight blue ticket voter. That debate solidified my support. Both are old as shit, but we are stuck with them because our voting system sucks. I'll choose the non-rapist, non-felon.
I always focus on how I will view my choices 10+ years down the road. I always regretted voting for bush and McCain. Haven't regretted voting blue since I pulled my head out of my ass.
It’s not the “straight blue ticket” voters we need to be worried about. I’d vote for a Biden with late stage dementia over any variation of Trump.
The worry is that people that don’t always vote, but showed up on 2020 are no longer going to show up because the Trump threat is a distant memory and Biden is such a weak candidate.
And while we all knew Biden was a weak candidate, the historically bad debate performance and everything that has come up since has only shown how truly weak Biden is.
To act like this is all a conspiracy pushed by the wealthy to avoid being taxed and not actual citizens that want a better chance at beating Trump is just silly.
Biden did quit well in the primaries. Also, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and the orange felon did bad on their first debates. In fact Obama did horrible. They all went on to win. Biden has the keys to win this. Switching candidates now will throw the election away. Biden has surrounded himself with good people, he has wisdom and experience. He averted a recession and the economy is rebounding impressively. Why throw that all away?
Allan Lichtman, a historian who has successfully predicted the outcome of the last 10 presidential elections, dismissed the calls to boot Biden from the ballot, telling CNN’s Abby Phillip it would be a “huge mistake” to replace Biden on the ballot. , “Republicans have no principles. Democrats have no spine". The story behind Professor Allan Lichtman's methodology based on earth quake prediction absolutely is fascinating.
With a little help from strategically timed withdrawals and Jim Clyburn, sure.
Seriously people don't want to talk about the split votes that collapsed in suddenly all at the same time for near unanimous backing. Or how most of the opponents got cabinet positions except for Elizabeth Warren who kept saying she was gonna be a VP pick for her dedication to the party and got thrown in the trash like other progressive politicians.
He barely won by a special circumstances but he is the best bet for not changing things for the rich and so they won't possibly let him go without a desperate fight or letting fascists win first.
More importantly, there's nothing you can do to convince someone who's dumb enough to vote for Trump, not to. This is why chasing "swing" voters is a really terrible strategy and always has been. There's literally nothing Trump could say or do to alienate the voters he has now, no one is undecided on Trump.
What determines the outcome for Democrats is the same it's ever been; turn out. It's why Biden won in 2020, it's why the GOP is constantly trying to sabotage and suppress voter registration. And it's why it's critical that Biden steps down, he simply cannot drive the needed turn out now and is unwilling to form a coalition with non-conservative democrats/independents.
It actually did. It wasn't just lies, but he is also losing plot about what he is talking about.
But yeah, I guess that's not much difference in the greater scheme of things.
And “tongue tied” Is a straight up, fucking lie. It was surprising just how bad Biden was in that debate. You are right that trump seems to be consistently shity and incomprehensible.
-CBS CEO Les Moonves, 2/29/16
And nothing has changed since.
Vote for the administration, not the man.
This is not that difficult. Both of these geezers have been president before. We know what teams they put together, what their agendas are, and the consequences of their administration.
There is only one big fucking faux pas on the Biden administration, and that is their continuing support for Israel's genocidal campaign in Gaza. That is no good, but what is Trump's stance on Gaza? His administration wants to accelerate and intensify support of the genocide.
Both candidates suck as individuals, but only one of the administrations has been competent and generally good for all citizens.
Trump's administration is asking why Israel isn't using nukes
You know, in case anyone had any doubts at all
You know, because nuclear bombs can be contained and certainly don’t carry any irradiated winds that would affect civilian populations only a fence away.
And the minor factor of Iran?
This makes perfect sense,tankies are just zionists riling up the trump base so they can nuke Gaza.
Makes 1000x more sense than what the tankies say they want.
Stop making up paranoid delusional conspiracy to ease your mind of the unfortunate truth that people just don't like him.
People are emotional idiots. Apparently including all of us.
You are right, the Democratic administration is fucking terrible. But its still better than the republicans. Can’t wait to vote third party on the next election cycle when people tell me i can vote how i wish.
You can always vote how you wish. Voting third party in the presidential election is always just a vanity vote. Nothing about the next election will change this. If you want to change it, you're going to have to go out and work from the ground up.
I believe that the Democrat Party is so terrible that the second the republicans ease up, the built up hate against the democrats will make third parties more palatable, or the democrats will take their head out of their collective asses and push left policies.
Even if a third party rises up and unseats a major party, we'll still revert quickly to a two party system and the issue will persist. This is what I mean about it being a vanity vote: it solves nothing.
If you want to dismantle the two party system, you have to change how we vote. That ain't coming from the top down. Get out locally and support groups and policies that push star or ranked choice voting. This is how we get that change.
Voting in a presidential election, as of now, is a strategic decision. For the vast majority of people, that means voting for the "lesser of two evils" as much as we hate it.
Not going to happen locally as long as democrats are in power. So my first order of business is to vote them out. I already mentioned that i was voting Biden i am quite sure
Well, I have local democrats who are actually pushing the change, so I disagree. However, even if what you say is true, your ability to influence policy is much greater locally, so you can unseat democrats there. My point still stands: voting third party in the presidential election has virtually no hope of solving the problem.
DC https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/08/08/dc-ranked-choice-ballot-measure-open-primaries-lawsuit/
New York https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/12/democrats-election-ranked-choice-voting-new-york/617461/
California https://ballot-access.org/2022/02/20/california-bill-to-ban-ranked-choice-voting/
Nevada https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/sisolak-rosen-and-other-top-democrats-oppose-ranked-choice-voting-measure
It’s a Democratic platform to oppose RCV and with such excuses as it will confuse the black population. Just… woof…
I was specifically told that i could vote my opinion on the matter after the presidential election, but not a second before.
Wow, really got that talking point and sticking to it.
Its probably the single most consistent message i get here. Its a part of the package of “you can’t talk shit about the democrats because whataboutism or something” and “only democrats are interested in left leaning policies, it’s just not a good time to actually do it right now” or “your vote matters and is worth just as much as everyone else’s” and my favorite “sometimes you just have to accept that the democrats have to be the ones to walk the negotiation table, it’s important to try to win that moderate that is on the fence”
I agree with you all the way up to voting 3rd party.
It has never worked out how everyone thinks it will. Why would this time be different?
We have first past the post here. Meaning first across the finish line. And 2 candidates are neck and neck a few steps from it. You can vote for one of them to pull into the lead a bit OR you can vote for a person still standing at the starting line that has no hope to ever win.
It's wild to me that people don't see that. It's about keeping Trump from winning and ACCELERATING THE GAZA GENOCIDE!!!! There just simply isn't the momentum to elect a 3rd party right now this cycle so close to the end. You have to start that momentum and push WAYYY sooner and be competitive and stay close to the lead or it is over for you.
Voting 3rd party now is like sticking your head in the sand and ignoring reality.
I completely understand that neither main candidate is perfect.
If Trump wins, but your vote could have helped Biden win, how will your conscience handle that? Knowing you could have at least stopped Trump, but didn't? Is feeling good about your vote going to outweigh the reality if Trump wins?
It's like refusing to put out a fire with dirty water so you let the whole building burn down. Let's use the dirty water and stop the fire and THEN clean up the muddy mess from it.
I think we both agree that first past the post is a blight. And the only option to stop that would be either voting third party, or a violent Revolution that sees both parties on the end of a rope. The democrats have killed changing voting to ranked choice at local levels, even after being successfully voted for, because just like republicans they know that not allowing a choice is the only thing giving them power. The second that there is risk free voting for platforms you actually care about, they are fucking done.
Do you guys really not remember anything from the last 3.5 years? I get not liking Trumps admin, but Bidens admin has objectively been so poorly run it makes me wonder if they are fucking everything up intentionally. Biden has to be the worst admin in my lifetime even beating out the George W Bush debacle that got us into two endless wars.
Even a quick glance at your comment history makes my brain hurt. That amount of delusion amd willful ignorance literally has you living in an alternate reality.
I am sorry that reading makes you brain hurt.
You reckon poorly run but you don't give any examples.
What has his administration done worse than the tangerine terrors?
Good question! Off the top of my head; no border control, terrible afghanistan withdrawl (but props he went through with it), pushing us closer to WW3 (see recent new of China doing joint exercises in Belarus), continued reckless spending done by trump, continued funding of Ukraine enabling deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, funding bombs dropped on Gaza, and more!
Border control? Now you know how the native Indians felt. I have no idea why so many Central American countries are unstable, which forces people to migrate to somewhere they perceived as safer for their families.
Afghanistan was baby Bush's mess. Do we blame Nixon for pulling out of Vietnam?
Closer to WW3? Really, I must have missed that memo because I don't see that happening.
Cut funding to Ukraine. Hmmmm... give in to bully Putin you mean. And you bring up China: How would China act on the global stage if they saw the US tucked tail to run in Ukraine? Embolden for sure.
As for Gaza, annoying orange would have bent over backwards to appease AIPAC and glassed Gaza.
But let's ask what the fake tanned arsewiped did for two whole years that he had full control of the house, senate and WH? Tax cut for himself? What else...?
And who can forget the one million dead from covid, because he made it political. No other country in the world suffered the impact the US had. Guess injecting bleach or looking directly at an eclipse without protective glasses on isn't clever.
I love when you guys defend indefensible policies. I can give you a deep dive on any one of these things, but you will just say some random nonsense that you think sounds good.
Indefensible? Like wanting a pedophile, rapist, convicted felon as party leader? What is wrong with you? That's some serious malfunction if you look at him and say "yup, he's dur one fur mee"
I dont want trump as leader, but he is not what you claim. A funny and slightly true quote is a prayer that says "Lord give me the Trump that the left thinks exists." The issue is that you just repeat the same propaganda and it just boring. You dont have anything interesting to say that is why you guys are called NPCs.
Fuck it, I don't mind being called a NPC. After all, nothing I said was untrue.
Except for the pedophile and rapist part you are correct. But FYI if you said all of those things about Biden the only part that wouldnt be true is "convicted felon". The rapist part might be false, but seems to be backed by solid story.
Because literally nobody is suprised by trump as this point. We all know what he is at this point. Biden popped the fascade that has been carefully crafted to keep us all thinking he was doing alright despite being old as fuck.
100%. People want to act like it was a "bad debate performance" but it was absolutely eye opening to the american people. Its not about who won or lost a debate.
And it's not like it's the first of those incidents. He fell off his bike, tripped getting on air force one, had a bunch of press conferences where he did the trailing off in the middle of his answer thing, etc.
And this isn't the only person democrats did this with either. They enabled Dianne Feinstein to run for reelection despite her being at deaths door, there's the RBG debacle, etc.
Democrats need to get better at refreshing the old guard. The only one that did it kind of right is Nancy Pelosi: groom a successor and step aside when the time is right.
Democrats are so ego driven that they think death itself cannot claim them at a moment's notice. I think this is part of the facade of the Democrats people are, unfortunately, going to respond to this election: Democrats, as a party, like to present themselves as being all about compromise and caring. Getting things done for the #AmericanPeople. But when it's time to step down and let others shine in the limelight because you've had your time and the physical realities of age are something you have to acknowledge, or when there might be a better candidate for an election and you have to make the difficult choice of not getting what you want for the good of the country, that fucking sentiment disappears like a fart in the wind.
I love the argument about the bike, have you seen trump on a bike? There's a 99% chance that you don't ride a bike yourself.
BTW: he tripped, because he had to stop to talk with reporters and the predators had straps. It even happened to me and I'm much much younger than him.
Maybe there's millions of qualified people other than Trump and Biden in the US? Why do Americans have to settle for just these 2? Why does Biden get to say he's the only one that could beat Trump, if that's objectively not true?
I can’t think of anyone else who could beat him. I really believed that Clinton could do it, and technically she did, but she didn’t beat him bad enough. A lot of people thought he was just playing himself up to win and wouldn’t be so bad once he got in (myself included). He showed them he wasn’t playing anything up and a vote against him got the largest turnout in history.
I really thought (and prayed, and begged the universe) that Sanders would get a shot.
Damn, what a mess. What a stressful, stressful, mess.
With a gay kid and a trans kid, I really do worry about their future. All we can do is ride the rock and hope for the best though. Well, that and vote against the dude who openly despises certain groups.
Edit:
Why didn’t you 9 name a candidate and why you think they’d win. Come on now, it’s a social forum. Get social.
Edit 2:
Chomp chomp. That’s me eating my words and praying I’m wrong on 7/21
The salient point- Biden does things better DAILY than Trump did in 4 years and we're still somehow focusing on stupid shit.
How many people who previously hadn't been paying attention to the race tuned in and saw the same deterioration they've watched in their own parents and grandparents?
Well the facade was bound to pop eventually, it was just easy to keep when you have done 100 less press events than literally any president in the last 4 decades.
He's been really really just hidden away and relying on good press to do all the talking for him and that's now gone for sure.
Because Trump performed exactly how he has in every previous debate, I'm not saying it was good but it was the same shit level of performance that I expected.
Biden performed horrendously compared to expectations, that's why he gets the focus. Trump lying his ass off just isn't news anymore, I'm not justifying it but it would have been stranger if he hadn't.
I know Trump shouldn't get a pass but the reason Biden is getting so much focus and Trump isn't is pretty obvious. Trump did as Trump does and Biden had a horrible performance.
Infuriating because people writing these headlines already know this. The entire purpose of these headlines is to deflect the real problem of Biden's inability to fulfill his role as Chief Executive onto "Ah but have you considered Trump is worse?!"
I don't think he really benefited from the debate either. Its not like anything he said resonated with the audience. It was the standard litany of grumpy old fascist bullshit. His approval rating didn't go up. Nothing he said has endured as a talking point or meme. He didn't even score a good laugh line.
This was a spectacle precisely because Biden was supposed to come out as a powerful voice to rally the mushy indie voters and... he didn't. We have this enormous pool of people who are disgusted with both candidates. Biden didn't put anything on the table to win them over. Trump didn't either. So now we go into the convensions with two of the must unlikable candidates in living memory.
Yeah I believe one of the people on the post debate panel said that the Biden team were the ones who pushed for this debate precisely to show that Biden was up to the task of being president again, which he failed at. Fair warning I could be dead wrong on that though.
Therein lies the problem. It should be the ENTIRE news. This is what we get when we let huge companies dictate the "news" and push all this crap about Biden yet basically nothing about Trump.
It's not journalism- it's money.
You don't think another candidate being like a lost and confused grandpa with Alzheimer deserves at least some part of the news?
Yeah I'm sure articles on Trump lying aren't generating clicks like they used to, gotta get good clickbate somehow.
John Stuart said it best - Trump meet everyone's expectations of him. His followers are either deranged or are just exploiting his madness. Biden was the one with something to prove and he ducking blew it.
He could have been better. But there are more debates. He can come out stronger next time.
That's not how old age works. Biden is not getting better, that's the whole point. This wasn't a political gaffe, it was a consequence of the inevitable collapse of age. Biden needs to step down, literally the only way Dems have a chance to win at this point.
Disagree. He's been a good president and far better than his opponent. His ACTIONS are a million times better than Trump.
I agree, but as Carter showed, being a good president isn't enough to get reelected.
Better then Trump is a low bar and you know it.
No one sane said that he was a bad president (although he could have been a lot better) just that he is too old for the job.
I would say that anyone younger and progressive would do better than him.
That's literally the race
I would trade Biden in for someone ten years older if it meant we'd get a strict and intelligent moderator
You seem to be missing the most important point here - with cognitive decline from advanced age, time is not on your side. Biden would likely be worse in a future debate, if he doesn’t do the right thing and step down immediately.
I disagree. But that's why we vote. So we get that freedom.
Lmao no shit, would've been hard to have been worse
You're right. He could have been Trump.
Didn't Trump gain support from the debate while Biden lost it to the degree that people from his own party are openly calling for him to drop out?
He's still a rapist. So there's that.
I don't think that came up or showed in the debate so probably didn't affect it. This is about the debate performance and its effect after all. If people didn't care about that before the debate, they're not going to suddenly care after it.
You mean I take more information than just a debate to make a decision?
I don't know you so I can't say. But maybe, most do that. But the debate is part of the decision making. In this instance, Biden's performance was dogshit, which was the point. As awful as Trump is, somehow people were more put off by Biden than Trump, if we consider how the polling changed after it. And that's just awful result for Biden.
I don't think it's a measurement of any sort of decision making. I have taken a course in public speaking. People freeze. Or respond differently to a quiet room when there should be an audience. His performance as president is better than Trump's ever will be. It does not measure intelligence. A great public speaker can inspire, but it's one debate. Trump came out looking like a liar and a little boy in a suit. Plus he is a felon rapist. There is nothing that makes me think his "snapshot" is any better than Biden's.
I just don't judge people solely on what the camera captures. It's called critical thinking by most accounts.
I realize all that, but I'm just talking based purely on general public perception and polls over the debate. The whole point of the debate was to get the public and especially fence sitters on your side. I don't know if Trump's behaviour managed to convince anyone that wasn't already on his side, but it was Biden's atrocious performance that managed to get a lot of people against him and some to side with Trump. Biden's whole candidacy is now in question. It's hard to make a worse job in a debate than that, that's all I mean.
I think it could have been worse. It's still early. He could be playing coy too. Rope a dope. Build Trump up with confidence to light him up closer to the end. I don't think that is necessarily the case, but it's a possible strategy. Trump did not look better in my eyes. Biden did not look bad. He did say something whacky. But his composure is much more impressive than Trump's. Trump couldn't even answer a question he was asked 4 times.
The people voting Trump like that about him. Stop pretending like they're after the same voters, they're not.
This article is about media reaction, not social media users.
Shockingly, you'll find the medias audience is made up of those same people that those two candidates are campaigning to. I also don't know where you see me talking about social media?
I think like half of them still mostly want the protest. Like "we'll make things bad so you in your delusions would finally see that it was bad earlier too". Maybe not very logical.
Faced by two bad choices, some people feel it as defiance to pick the worst.
But that's just about humanity, not about USA, I don't know anything about the USA, haven't even been there.
Nobody expected anything else of Trump. Him lying is no longer news. It's just how it is.
At this point, it's clear his base does not read the news outside of their own bubbles, so why do people care that at least in our own bubble we remain critical. Otherwise, it's a continued shift from a vote between full on fascism or a one party state.
Democrats tell us democracy is on the line and many people including myself believe it, but then they push a weak candidate likely to lose merely because his team has lined their pockets with corporate donations and pledged allegiance to Israel. Democrats need to decide if democracy is on the line, or if they lie to their voters and don't care if Trump wins.
Or, billionaires own media and using them to shape public opinion so they can get more corporate friendly candidate.
Biden was perceived as corporate friendly in 2020, but he delivered more worker friendly policies and also is promising to increase taxes on rich
This isn't about getting a more corporate-friendly candidate. It is about beating Trump, plain & simple. Biden's abysmal debate performance wasn't CNN drugging him to instill a new corporate shill for the Democrat-party. The Democrat party is capable of pushing corporate shills themselves already, as they did in 2016.
Speaking of CNN, many people are not aware that CNN changed owner in 2022 to MAGA friendly one. So I would now treat it more like Fox News lite.
Biden supporters in 2024 are sounding a lot like Trump supporters in 2016 by calling all the media outlets fake news now.
Maybe not, but capitalism and fascism want the same things. They don't care about Biden's age, just their wealth and not supporting anyone who threatens that. That's why all the narrative around Biden's age is all we get out of that debate. The wealthy own all means of communication.
There's a reason the saying, "the revolution will not be televised," is relevant. I think you may be missing the plot a little as no one thinks CNN drugged or did anything else to Biden. But the media can make it so the national attention is on Biden. They want him replaced or they want tRump to win.
They're playing chess while a majority of Americans are fighting about who gets the white pieces and who gets the red ones [cause they're playing checkers]!
Biden deserves this loss, he literally said only God would take him out this race, but you know democracy is threatened! So lets run the shittiest candidate possible, and its extra infuriating because Biden/Harris is literally the most unlikeable ticket possible. Harris is even more unlikeable, Ive had numerous people ask me why an Indian girl raised in India and Canda whose crown achievement is locking up marijuana users is doing a BET advert talking about shes out in these streets. It feels like beyond pandering.
Because in a televised debate, people only see performance. It's not like anyone fact-checked Trump, either. Biden tried and failed to meaningfully rebut him, and the moderators didn't even try.
There were moderators? The only people i noticed were 2 seriously overdressed stage hands that handled muting microphones. Other than that it was just Biden and Trump being total embarrassments.
That's what moderators are supposed to do. They aren't judges, or fact checkers. They are supposed to present the questions to the speakers, and manage time, and maybe on occasion ask a followup question. It's the speakers job to respond to questions and their counterpart(s) on stage.
Because we all knew trump would lie. That's not news. What we didn't know, is how far Biden has slipped since 2020.
You know, and I know, but for the low-information voter, you'd be surprised. To many low-information voters, they think Trump occasionally exaggerates because he's braggadocious, and they think Biden is a serial liar because he's an establishment politician.
It's a false equivalence, but his lies need to be pointed out and shown to be false. It's hard, because he Gish Gallops all over the stage, but it needs to be done. Trump needs to be shown as a blatant and malicious liar to the average person. It needs to be made clear that he thinks very little of his base's intelligence, and that he's taking them for a ride.
Low-info voters won't read the news and shun any media that doesn't come straight out of trump puckered anus lips. Why would the news target that demographic? Or a better way to put it: News that targeted that demographic with that messaging were unable to compete with other news organizations.
*edit because we're incredibly tense, not loose
Because Biden was the 'electability' candidate, and he's looking pretty fucking un-electable.
The argument against swapping out candidates with 4 months to go is ostensibly because it's not enough time to campaign, but that's the reason Biden needs to be tapped out. Whoever is running needs to be able to clearly prosecute the case against Trump, but Biden can't even deliver a coherent sentence. Even when he's reading off prompter he's flubbing words, missing cues, and can barely remember who's still alive and who's already dead. We can't just hope people will read between the broken sentences; Biden needs to be able to campaign for himself. Turnout will be so fucking low if he doesn't do his fucking job, and that will be nobody's fault but his and the DNC's if they don't fucking do something now.
Quit complaining about how the press is reporting on his flubs; they're not inventing that problem whole-cloth, Biden is clearly not doing well. People should be irate that the white house and the DNC have been ignoring this issue that's been growing steadily for the last 3 and a half years.
We *lose if we do nothing about this. Fullstop.
How loose are we though?
I do be so loose
Harris needs to get out there and campaign hard.
DNC doesn't care and pretending they do is pointless.
“The World”?
I think you mean the press, and that press focus is the problem.
Somebody should plot a chart of media company revenues vs. political candidates and compare it with the stories they run.
I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect there may be some cross-correlation.
Oh you’re spot on. Trump likes to go on about his ratings, but even people who wouldn’t vote for him in a million years watch him. He’s entertaining. I don’t suppose it would be so bad if so many people didn’t see him as more than entertaining.
I’ve been guilty of it for 9 years now. “What crazy thing will Trump do next?” I used to sit when something would happen and refresh his twitter page because I knew that whatever he was about to do, it was going to be thoroughly entertaining.
I’ve found myself thinking, “this can’t be real” so many times.
You couldn’t give me anything to give him a vote because I don’t think he’s the right man for the job. I can see why a lot of people do. There have always been people who believe that leaders should lead through shows of strength. I get it, but I believe that leaders should lead through intelligence. A leader should be calm, collected, strategic, and intelligent. I just don’t see Donald Trump as any of those things. I see him as impulsive and a threat to the progress that so many people have fought for.
Biden’s performance at the debate has me terrified. It would have taken him sitting there drooling on the ground to frighten me enough to vote for Trump. I’m really hoping all the people who showed up in 2020 feel the same way. The damage an angry Trump could do this time could be irreparable. We all seen the “save America” rally and everything that followed. We’ve seen his stacked courts give him the power of a king. Take a moment and watch the videos of him recording his message to the people on Jan 6 if you haven’t seen it. Not the message itself, but the process of recording it.
I’ll shut up now. Y’all be good. :p
They could Weekend at Bernie's Biden and I'd still vote for him over trump. He could be a fucking desiccated corpse, and as long as someone is there to move his stiff wrist across bills on his desk, he's still a magnitude better.
Dems and leftists can rightfully bemoan this old fuck leading us again, but holy shit we are dealing with either an embarrassing but mostly effective fogey or a guy who wants to be the fucking emperor and is gleefully planning the literal destruction of our democracy as we know it.
The choice is so easy.
Because everyone knows that Trump is garbage and republicans are complicit. We're hoping Democrats will challenge Biden
Because Trump did nothing unexpected for him - if anything he was more restrained than usual - but Biden is showing greater signs of senility. News reports things that are new, more at 11.
This. Plus that Trump will never back out and I doubt the Republican Party would have the strength to force him. On the other hand. getting a better suited candidate then Biden appeared to be somewhat possible for a moment, but I'd say that moment is probably over.
It's also harder to force Trump out, he actually won a real primary. Republicans would have to copy Democrats and argue that they can choose anyone they want regardless of votes.
Because the right doesn't care that trump lied, and the left does care that Biden can't speak.
And the right wing media wants to do is suppress the left wing voters, and the left wing media knows that people are exhausted after 8 years talking about Trump lying so the Biden thing is better for viewership
Because everyone expects trump to lie.
Continually, repeatedly and with wild abandon. People noticed Biden's stumble BECAUSE it was out of the norm
With trump it was the same old shit he always says
It wasn't out of the norm, it's just up till that point all the gaffs were smaller audience and MSM and online CTR types constantly saying things like "he's got a stutter!" or "you're just ageist!" and the debate was much more obvious and watched by enough that those deflections aren't working anymore.
I held my nose and voted Biden last election BTW, we just should have faced the facts that he's clearly been in cognative decline and put in place steps to have a successor prepared, but the party decided it had to be Biden and here we are.
You held your nose to vote for the objectively better candidate who has gone on to do more for the progressive movement than any other president ever.
I have to say that shit like that constantly being said can't possibly help either. Constant negativity at every stage no matter what; great look.
Bernie would have been better on literally every front and he was fucked by the DNC and the elites.
Saying Biden has been the most progressive president is honestly hilarious to me, like did you know FDR existed? Ever looked into some of the glorious policies in that time?
Trump is literally a wannabe evil dictator, so yeah Biden is clearly the better candidate, but let's be real here please.
It's not correct to say Biden has been more progressive than FDR, especially for the time. However, it's also not "hilarious" to mistake the number 2 for the number 1. Policy-wise Biden has been enormously good for the working class and it's not honest to say otherwise. Also, FDR had almost 4 terms and never openly sided with a union over a corporation like Biden did.
What union did Biden openly side with? If it's the rail one I'm thinking of, he broke the strike and forced them back... So...
What other progressive policies has Biden implemented? (Serious question)
I do know about the student loan stuff, which was killed, did raise the minimum wage for federal workers, which is nice but also just a small improvement. Roe v Wade is out now (not directly his fault ofc) and I haven't seen any overall improvements/changes on that front.
UAW.
NLRB appointments that are top notch, FTC appointments that are top notch, the ones you mentioned, improved overtime 1.5x pay regulations, LOTS of infrastructure spending for public transport, lots of antitrust in the tech sector specifically regarding privacy and data brokering, strict regulations against Airlines and banks who apply hidden fees and predatory return/overdraft loan interest policies as well as specific mortgage loan practices which result in surprise rate increases, and he might be structuring for Marijuana decriminalization, it's already down to schedule 3 from schedule 1. Most of his accomplishments are tied to his agencies and some smart appointments to them, and it is a big reason the Supreme Court is trying to gut them.
His executive orders have been much more measured than Obama's and Trump's, for better or for worse. He doesn't seem to want the supreme court to slap down everything he does, but that's a neoliberal for you.
I see your point, I guess my stance is a lot of those feel like neolib small steps, which aren't nothing for sure, just hard to say they're actually progressive, as most progressive ideals I align with require much larger changes to structure in general. Neolib policies are partially what brought us to this place (of course the GOP ghouls tearing it all down every other presidency doesn't help...) I think a lot of it ends up feeling like the dems promise a lot and then under deliver every time, but they clearly don't cheerlead the wins they do make enough either. Feels like they're constantly just trying to fight off right wing narratives instead, which is clearly just a waste of time as they will misrepresent and straight lie as much as possible.
The media is only focused on one.
Biden didn't get tongue tied. He couldn't form complete sentences and kept losing his train of thought. Look at his videos from 2019. He was talking just fine, but still was a gaff machine.
And Biden didn't even have the awareness to push back on the lies! He fucking argued with him over fucking Golf!
The billionaire owners of the media have a vested interest in Trump’s agenda.
Biden administration tax policy proposals have the billionaires pissed off.
Vested interest in any government that doesn't threaten their wealth. Capitalists always thrive in fascism.
Billionaires own all the news outlets
Yeah, this does feel a bit astroturfed, I think they don't like his promises of increasing taxes on rich and strengthening protections for workers.
And exposure from the Epstein Files being unsealed.
Don’t forget thats how we got Joe in the first place, lost all the first dem primaries in 2020, while the media kept saying don’t count him out because reasons, while literally hiding wins by Bernie and other dems. I wonder where all these people come from that think a confirmed liar Source and has been in politics so long he supported and advocated for segregation Source that raised $127 million just last month Source is somehow being targeted by corporate interests and needs to be protected?
Because the people surrounding Biden are good at their jobs. Each has a weakness: Trump is a liar and Biden is old and forgetful. Trump's people made no effort to hide Trump's weakness, but Biden's people did a good job of hiding it up to the debate. That people are surprised is a good sign that Biden surrounded himself with competent people - but also this is what debates are suppose to do, reveal the true candidates to the nation.
Or maybe unlike basically any president before him in modern times Biden has the lowest public appearance rate and the least press meetings since fucking Reagan and he even had more with his early onset dementia.
Biden has literally hidden from view and hoped decorum and order would see him through to a second term and it's not working especially when he comes south of the shadows and drops a debate like what we saw.
Honestly the people around Biden aren't competent either. They are just rich people from prestigious colleges who "yes and" and want to stay influential and paid. They do their job which is more than Trump's cabinet but none of them are some heroic savior of this terrible presidential election no matter how much you want it to be.
Appease the thoughts of him losing however you want but that won't stop it either.
Because one was par for the course while the other was very unexpected.
Person 1 who missed the debate: How'd the debate go?
Person 2 who watched it: Well Trump lied thru his teeth for every answer.
Person 1 sarcastically: Wow what a shocker 🙄 and how did Biden do?
Person 2: Well he answered the question about abortion by ranting about an immigrant woman dying at the border.
No no. Far worse.
How an immigrant murdered this woman who was pregnant. And that there's lots of it. Maybe? And then rambling about women being raped all the time by their family.
But at least that was before they both started arguing just fine about golf handicaps.
Because the Far Right owns the "Liberal" Media
Biden really is just full on running Trump's 2016 campaign huh?
When's he gonna start yelling about Trump's emails?
Trump lying is no news. He performed as everyone expected.
Because undecided fucktards are all that matter. And they’ll be swayed by trump’s bullshitting.
Undecideds don't matter, voter suppression matters
Christ do you hear yourself?
"Every vote matters, except for that one, or that one, or that group, and those should just vote with me because I am right."
That's not how it works. There are electoral votes we need, there are votes we need to get those electoral points. You can't just hand wave it all away and call it a different problem to solve.
We have to play the game as it's currently playing out. You can just pull out monopoly money in solitaire to try and bribe the deck into giving you an ace.
We need the votes that Biden does not have and won't get acting like he is.
Fucking take a step back, take a deep breath, and consider for a second if I meant what you think I meant.
The context of the conversation is mainstream media. I'm talking about what matters to mainstream media. I'm critiquing mainstream media.
It sounds more like Biden’s bullshitted facade is falling apart, and he was such trash even Trump looks better.
They don’t understand the more they rally around Biden, the more likely he stays, and the more likely Trump wins.
Fuck off
Trump getting no pushback for lying for 1 hour and not actually any questions is a real issue. Trying to say Biden was tongue-tied is way too generous. His mind was spinning up like old 90 computer hardrives. It took awhile for him to reply to anything. If this debate was taken seriously, Trump wouldn't have gotten to sit up there and do that for all that time.
Because when the nation's facing its greatest threat since at least the Civil War, your chosen defender should be a beacon of hope, not a quivering old man.
I love Joe Biden. He's done great things for this country, and his administration has been excellent overall, despite being very bad at communicating it's successes. But it's time for him to rest on his laurels.
Senility is coming fast, and the Republicans are absolutely murdering him on this point. It's by far the strongest play they have, and by choosing a different candidate that's not in their 9th decade of life we can gut that argument.
RBG refused to retire and as a consequence we have the worst Court in the history of the country. Biden is refusing to retire, and as a consequence we're likely to lose our Democracy entirely in 5 months.
It's not too late to change candidates. It's only in the last few decades that the candidate was known ahead of the convention. We can and should pick someone younger that can turn the narrative of "crazy old man" around on the also-ancient Donald Trump.
Everyone I talk to laments about how terrible both candidates are. How about we swap Joe out for someone who is at least mediocre?
The strongest argument I've heard against changing is that Ohio requires a candidate to be registered before the Democratic convention. Fucking Ohio. Who let them be a swing state?
Ohio isn't in play. But also this isn't new. They've had that deadline for a while. The DNC set it up this way knowing it would be one more barrier to switching candidates.
That makes the convention irrelevant. The DNC hurt itself in confusion.
My beacon of hope is the people oldman Joe surrounds himself with and his party. Putting it on one guy is absurd. The RGB comparison is also bad.
Admirable position, unfortunately 80 million other voters don’t have this nuanced position… and we need them to win.
That's not the concept the average American has of the President though and this isn't 1984. We're not going to just elect Bush after a caretaker term for Reagan. We need someone who has the energy to do all the normal president stuff and fight on the home front. Because we're fast approaching the point of a Christian insurgency.
Yeah but it's not about you. Other people exist and you won't change their mind through any amount of talk.
MAGA will vote for Trump no matter what. Democrats would rather vote for a corpse than vote for Trump. Which means we don't need Biden to save democracy: anyone will do.
I don’t understand how anyone… ever …can reconcile that Biden has let through 9.000.000+ illegal immigrants in a few short years and already begun to the social unrest as a result…
But further to that we can see the elections system remains easily defrauded, suggesting issues that could result in illegal immirants getting away with voting and having their vote counted…
The only way I can see Bidens actions and inactions being a good thing is he seems to be rapidly accelerating the totality of collapse that can bring the country to essentially civil war and a breaking up of the states between red and blue … which could result in more of an EU situation
Yeah, we're gonna need a citation on that 9,000,000 number.
looks around
Gonna need one for that "social unrest" too.
I mean I keep seeing articles of people being murdered by illegal immigrants, is it pure scare mongering?
And I’m really quite surprised I’d be upvoted by this as anyone that enjoys freedom and a good quality of life should really understand what’s going on
Yes
Yes it is pure scare mongering, that is how most media makes money. You are more likely to be murdered by your parents than an immigrant. What do you mean by "what's going on?" I enjoy freedom and good quality of life, which is why I think borders shouldn't exist.
What’s going on? You have open borders, completely open, border control is a formality for the airports. Anyone from any motivation can walk into the states freely unchecked, unquestioned, unchallenged, for free; undocumented… since Biden laxed the laws dramatically… and on top, taxpayer money is being spent supporting these immigrants. Truly truly mind boggling stuff.
I’ve literally watched live streams of the endless flood coming across.
America is under attack by its own government policy, it’s like you’ve fought wars before but never such an internal war.
It’s the woke mind virus, it’s a cancer of the mind… it’s so sad to watch unfold
It is one of America's ideals to help people everywhere find a better life and live the 'American dream.' You don't support this patriotic ideal? Thousands of refugees from the endless global wars that the US helps initiate come to our borders to find salvation. I gladly pay taxes to help needy immigrants because that is supposedly one of the foundational elements of 'America'.
But we are ruled by the wealthy who trick average people to be mad at immigrants instead of wage theft, wealth redistribution, unchecked global atrocities and war crimes done in the name profit, Raytheon et al and the military-industrial complex. I have been to the border, my friends and family have a lot of experience in border towns and there is no dangerous immigrant invasion going on like portrayed by the media. And what open borders? Biden has deported more people than Trump.
I have such a strong disagreement on the idea of Biden being better with illegal immigration than trump that I’m convinced you’re a Russian bot intended to post pro Biden rhetoric as he’s done more damage to America than any nuke could ever achieve
It's not an 'idea', there is hard data showing the numbers of people deported. Trump hates immigrants too though, I'm not saying either one is better or worse on immigration. How am I intending to post pro-Biden rhetoric? Biden is a genociding racist that should be charged with war crimes.
I’ll upvote just so I can understand what is going on?
Mods, I’m not trolling. I’d really like to help this person.
Yes, we know that conservatives constantly foam at the mouth at the thought of collapse or inciting violence.
Specifically, focussing on two related things only, the illegal immigration and the proven loopholes for Voting/election fraud.
These pillars of democracy ate important and real… no one is foaming at the mouth for collapse, on the contrary… conservatives and non conservatives alike want freedom and peaceful respectable lives
Can you give us some examples of election fraud?
You think the illegal population has increased by over 70% in 3 years? How does one get to be this gullible to propaganda?
You can see the footage of it, and the stats, you don’t have to try hard either, YouTube shows the endless sea flooding in daily, and then states are giving them money and a bunch of handouts. This is real, this is happening, like how long can you keep your head in the sand for
YouTube videos aren't really great proof of anything. A bunch of YouTube videos get debunked daily. I also haven't found any stats of 9 million illegal immigrants, can you point me in the right direction?
Wait til you find out about climate migration.
Wow. An actual conservative point of view. Can we keep him everybody? Pretty please? 🥺
We already know trump sucks. He shouldn't be running for pres, he should probably be in prison. We're focusing on biden because he's also unfit, and we're afraid he can't beat trump. This isn't rocket surgery.
Because this election isn't going to be decided by hard core Democrats and only one person on that stage looked mentally incompetent. And I understand he's not, but man is that going to be a helluva thing to prove to people who don't watch politics. People who tuned into the debate because they were undecided.
BOY DID HE EVER FUCKING LIE.
Sounds like something a Palestinian would say! /s
That entire exchange was racist, and no one called it out. Everyone on stage is a Zionist.
Imagine if Trump had called Biden a Jew. They’d be screaming antisemitism.
Question I've been asking since the debate.
I'm Canadian, and Trump and his Project 2025 scares the ever loving crap out of me.
Why doesn't it scare you guys?
It does, that's why we want a stronger candidate than Biden. Everyone already knows where Trump stands on things and has for years at this point so shining a light on it does not help. It shouldn't even be close and yet it is because the Dems keep trying to jam candidates no one likes down our throats.
Personally speaking I don’t think the wealthy elite of the US will back a fascist coup anytime soon. In all the history of fascism, it’s usually only been supported by the powers that be when said powers are threatened by an organized radical left. No such left really exists in the US. Until that time, I expect nothing to fundamentally change about the slow decline of the US and the two party system.
"Tongue tied"
Dead.jpg
It is so funny they talk about the look and presentation when its so much easier to just spew out whatever is at tip of your brain with no care about veracity.
Trump lies so often that it's no longer newsworthy to point it out. Even if Biden had debated well, the media probably wouldn't have even scratched 5% of Trump's falsehoods in a fact check and just focused on soundbytes of Trump saying dumb shit as usual.
It doesn't fucking help that the right have been repeating a lie about Biden having dementia and, regardless of what the actual cause of his poor performance was on debate night, he put wind in their sails and essentially "proved them right all along" with his hoarse voice and incoherent train of thought. The seed has been planted and now some will start to wonder that if the Republicans were right about that, then what other farfetched nonsense could they also be right about?
It's been 12 days since the debate and people are still talking about how bad it was. I'm pissed that the Biden team is treating this as if it's no big deal when this one event was an absolute torpedo to his campaign that he might not recover from if he can't convince both the Democratic establishment and the Democratic electorate that he is capable of doing another 4 years.
I'm worried about Biden's chances because he won in 2020 while Trump's atrocious term was still fresh in everyone's minds. People apparently have short fucking memories because they all want to go back to Trump mismanaging the country and potentially ending free elections forever just to shave 30 cents off the price of eggs at the supermarket. Biden is still coasting on the policy-agnostic idea that the people will reject Trump more strongly than they will approve of him and I think that's a huge mistake. He needs to be hammering his achievements home and also talking about stats from the Trump era and how they were great when Obama left office, terrible when Biden took office (due to Trump's admin) and now improving thanks to him. That makes the best case for re-election, more than just convincing everybody to not vote for the openly fascist candidate because there's no realistic alternative.
Because everyone knew Trump would lie constantly, that's all he ever does. Biden used to be an eloquent, confident public speaker, but that has changed drastically in the last 4 years. We also know that reporting on Trump's lies doesn't slow or stop them and definitely doesn't change his supporters' minds. If anything, reporting constantly on the lies he tells just gives him more screen-time to spread them. Also, the world really needs Trump to lose, so if the only guy available to do so is seemingly physically unable, it makes sense to talk about options.
Giving Trump more air time just makes more people know about Trump.
We can't hide the Democrat candidate for fear of his public appearance hitting his ratings and also try to parade him around as competent. It turns into telling not showing and any film major can tell you that's a crappy movie that no one will buy.
People need to see a guy who looks like they can handle a job and hear about it. To much begging on Trump just brings us back to Trump.
News feeds on drama so they have to foment turmoil. Also, every news source of consequence has a trump donor CEO (even the liberal biased ones)...so....
i like destinys take on trump "because nobody fucking cares"
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Here’s a summary: Not only did Trump repeatedly lie, but he also delivered nonsensical responses and non-answers lacking any insight into his policy plans.
For example, when moderator Jake Tapper asked what he would do to make child care more affordable, the presumptive GOP nominee initially dodged the question.
Later, when Trump was given an opportunity at the debate to address voter concerns over his mental fitness, the 77-year-old offered two points to alleviate the public’s fears.
Also of concern on the debate stage, Trump didn’t commit to unconditionally accepting the election results and underscored his intentions to seek political retribution.
Commentator Kaivan Shroff remarked that the media has chosen to “ignore Trump being a convicted felon, racist, nutjob, etc” while journalist Sophia Nelson said on CNN that she believed it’s fair to question Biden after his performance, but warned of the “pile-on” against him.
“It’s frankly astonishing that we have no less than eight op-ed pieces calling for Biden to drop out after a bad debate, but we had zero after any one of Trump’s convictions,” journalist Victoria Brownworth wrote.
The original article contains 1,174 words, the summary contains 181 words. Saved 85%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Because everyone who owns the news is rich and the republicans like rich people and are also gonna lower their taxes
Biden lied about israel accepting a ceasefire and Hamas rejecting it.
Why has no Democrat ever mentioned this?
Because their "ceasefire" proposal is the same as Russia's was : lay down and give us complete control of your territory, and we reserve the right to continue killing you afterwards.
That's not a treaty, that's imperialism backed by murder.
With all due respect, of which I feel very little is actually due, fuck that.
And Trump has said that Israel should "just finish the job".
What makes you think that he will lift a finger to help the Palestinian people?
And what about your Congress and Senate? Aren't they the ones who send the money and arms to Israel?
Shouldn't you be on their collective ass?
This dilemma would be a lot easier if Trump was the one complicit in Genocide right now and we just had to vote him out. You wouldn't believe the rallies we would see against Trump if he was the one in the driver seat today
Not sure if cosplaying as a Republican was the play for Biden.
Lied continually. Like multiple times.
The GoP won't disparage their boy.
The DNC just doesn't have the same manpower, thousands of underpaid people and bad AI and american volunteers, and without all that manpower can't keep up on the "but his stammer" / "both sides" bullshit.
Because Americans value being loud and confident over everything else. That's why Trump has been able to be so successful here despite being a hateful moron.
Because Assholes value being loud and confident over everything else. That's why Trump has been able to be so successful here despite being a hateful moron.
Not all Americans share these “values”
I know, but American culture in general very much does.
s/world/MEDIA world/
I'm just going to leave this here: https://youtu.be/RYHPVX_Xs6g
I'm sorry but I don't see it or hear it. I don't like Trump but this looks like the kind of propaganda where they just blatantly lie about a video. It relies on our brains expecting something to be there so it makes it up. You defeat it by getting the accusation but then skipping to the video so you don't hear the accusation ten times before watching it. So in summary Trump supposedly pauses, strains, and then there's an audio component. I didn't observe any of the three elements.
Tongue tied isn't the same as what happened with Biden on the debate night. It's theoretically possible for Trump to stop lying or at least restrain himself, because it's not a physical ailment that only gets worse as time goes by. Compare 2020 debate Trump vs 2024 debate Trump and you'll see how much better he was this time. Biden on the other hand has no control over what is going on with him, and it doesn't get better with age, only goes the opposite direction. He did good during his 4 years, but he's only tarnishing his legacy by running again. He should quit while he's ahead.
Trump is almost as old as Biden and probably more senile. It's not just lying, Trump has a complete lack of understanding about how anything in the government functions. He only sounds coherent to many people because he literally says nothing.
If you re-watch the debate, you'll see Biden actually responds to questions about his policies and platform. Trump never comes close. Part of that is probably because he has no platform, but largely because I don't think he's capable of answering those questions.
Senile has a very specific meaning, and while Trump is a number of things, he's nowhere near as senile as Biden yet. Biden lost trains of thought constantly, and tried to find a fitting word to complete his sentence, jumped from one subject to another, and ended up beating medicare. Just watch Biden in the 2020 debate and now. Tell me you don't see an astounding difference.
Do yourself a favor and watch some of Trump's "rallies" this year. It's quite clear he's fucking out of it.
Cool… cool. We’re just gonna ignore the sitting President has dementia. What’s for dinner?
Sure but Trump seems to have soiled himself during the debate. There are videos discussing this going around.
I don’t care if Presidents poop, I do require the “leader of the free world “ to be able to process thoughts.
Well Trump can certainly process foods
hamberders and Diet Coke.
Because you're the one pushing them. And they're shit videos.
Lol, look how much people comes out of the shell when you start playing their same game. The video seemed authentic to me, and Trump has a history of shitting himself according to people that worked with him.
Ok boomer
Ok beta
You should look up what dementia actually entails. It's not a joke to be thrown at people who are just simply old and can't articulate the way they used to. Which was the case with Biden.
It's an insult to those who suffer from the disease and belittles their struggles.
Can't articulate the way they used to? The man lost his thought and then switched topics to say we beat medicare. He devolved into a golf pissing contest on national TV. He gave Trump unneeded openings on things like The Afghanistan Withdrawal.
He might not have dementia but don't try and tell us he was all there, just unable to articulate properly.
They’re also not a President who won’t submit to a cognitive test, so spare me your outrage. Do you know that the 82 year old doesn’t have dementia?
My point is that dementia is a very specific disease that is debilitating and if Biden came within a golf shot of having it he never would have mounted that stage.
Honestly, Trump displays more things symptomatic of dementia than Biden does. Biden is just displaying old age. And yeah, he's fucking old. But then, Trump is only 2 years younger than his old ass.
Dementia is a continuum.
Doctors generally don’t use senility anymore. Regardless, if there’s even a chance that Biden has this condition, he shouldn’t stay in the race.
You missed the point yet again. If there was even a chance that he had dementia he wouldn't have been on that stage you dumbass.
You seem upset about this. I am too. But getting angry at others doesn’t help. The politicians that put us in this situation like it when we’re angry with each other. It redirects our anger for them to each other.
Take care.
Being a condescending prick doesn't improve your position. Piss off.
That was not my intent. Sorry if it came off that way. Displaced anger can be curbed.
Correction: pedantic condescending prick.
Just trying to help.
Oooo look at the pretty gaslight!
REALLY? THE PAID FOR BY THE ALT RIGHT MASS MEDIA ISN'T GOING AFTER TRUMP, ONLY ATTACKING MINOR SHIT BIDEN DOES AND ACTING LIKE IT'S A HUGE PROBLEM? YOU DON'T FUCKING SAY.
Fuck this country.
I'm so tired of pundits pretending the media is being unfair to Biden. He literally said he was the first black woman to be vice president today, and most outlets chose not to cover it. The media has been going exceptionally easy on Biden, which is why so many Americans were shocked to hear how incoherent and rambling he'd become, even compared to Trump. The media isn't covering this because they suddenly want to destroy Biden; they're covering it because the floodgates have opened and they have no choice but to acknowledge it.
Listening to this for the first time, and I don't hear him say he's the black woman. He starts saying something, then changes mid sentence and says, "like I said, the first black woman vice president, served with a black president, first black woman chief justice". Are you saying he says he's also the first black woman chief justice? There's legitimately many concerning things he has said due to his mental issues, but this is just nitpicking.
Except that's not what he said. His exact words were:
Now, do I think that means he was so confused he thought he was the country's first Vice President, and also a black woman who served with the first black President? No, obviously he meant that he was the Vice President to the first black President, and was President with the first black woman to be Vice President.
But do I think this is another example of him being unable to follow a train of thought long enough to complete a coherent sentence? Absolutely, yes.
That video was stupid. Confused himself with the VP or just misspoke? Silly.
Yeah, and if he wasn't on a press blitz because he went on TV and looked like a confused grandpa during a national debate, it'd be a silly flub, not another example of his cognitive decline.
In an interview with questions his team fed to the interviewer no less.
Exactly. Since the debate, he's been exposed to very safe, very controlled media events, and he's still underperforming. This is extremely bad.
This was inevitable. Years of gaslighting was extremely bad.
I thought Biden was sick, or was it tired? Now it's tongue tied? The DNC is literally handing Trump the WH by refusing to acknowledge they are propping up a vegetable
TIL you can only be one at a time.
Not when the story keeps changing
Orrrrr yes tired and a cold, that's not a ludicrous combination lol. And he's always had a stutter, which yes can come out in many ways.
Announcing that you beat Medicare isn't a cold symptom.
"Don't you think he looks tired" isn't a great talking point in favor of your candidate.
Listening to liberals still defending Biden is like listening to Republicans in their cult like worship for Trump
Plenty of FOSS social media here, why not explore another comment thread? 🥾
Oh, you're a contrarian who is only here for drama? Shocker 🥱
So dishonest lmao. Nobody thinks he's a fucking banger of a candidate. Nobody is leaping for joy to vote for fucking Joe Biden. His faults are myriad and obvious. There is no worship. You have the choice between an actual despot and grampa Joe. That's it.
They are both despots, those are your choices. I, and many others, refuse to participate in failed politics which only serve the wealthy
This is just reductive. Look at any of the policies from the D's that benefit all of us, women, the poor. Waste your vote and enable fascism. Feel free.
edit: and the gays... and education... and taxes... and infrastructure... and climate... and migration...
Fascism has been here, you just prefer yours covert
If they cared about any of those issues theyve had decades to address them, yet you settle for bread crumbs.
And you would settle for Trump? How is that better? Our system has changed incrementally since its inception. I would vote for a socialist if they existed. The only party which remotely aligns with my ethics is the Democrats. What solution do you offer? Vote third party? Be a passive participant in project 2025 rather than an active voter for the significantly lesser of two evils?
You can take a respectable philosophical stance in a vacuum, but you're not helping anyone in the real world. You're a participant in creating harm, imo.
Edit: The dems have created real policies which help real people. Look as far back as FDR. Look at Obamacare, insulin caps, gay marriage rulings. Then look at bathroom bills, or like, anything R's are pushing lol
Im not settling for anyone, trump is absolute garbage, but while the DNC has you terrified of Trump they are upholding the same views and policies as republicans. Everything they do is to protect capital and most times at our expense.
Lesser evil is a myth liberals tell themselves to justify doing what they know is harm.
Just so you know, everything FDR passed in social and workers rights came from socialist Francis Perkins. And the reason we havent seen anything like it since is because democrats actively fight those efforts. Their role is not to defeat republicans but prevent leftist orgs and movements from gaining power.
Trump has me terrified of Trump, not the DNC.
I think it's far more varied than that. There are some "true" leftists in the Democratic party. I would much prefer ranked choice voting, proportional representation, etc. to represent all views. Moreover, the "lesser evil" is not merely an invention of the DNC -- it's what I view as objective reality. One side really does happen to be worse than the other. Either way we eat a shit sandwich, but one is gourmet shit and comes with the faint hope that one day I will be eating more palatable shit on perhaps higher quality bread.
Thanks for the tidbit on Perkins. Do you have more information on how dems are fighting against socialism actively? From what I can tell, they are frequently trying to package "socialist" policies in way the average red-scare American can swallow (re:obamacare, market controls, regulation, etc.).
At the end of the day, the choice is truly between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. There is zero (0.00%) room for anything else in the year of 2024. Short of a revolution, incremental change is what we are working with, and I will go to the polls to vote blue whether I have a grin or grimace on my face.
While I could see the wisdom in not propping up a vegetable, I'm not sure acknowledging that they are propping up a vegetable is any more of a "winning strategy".
They need to count their losses while they still have time.
Your loyalty to Joe biden won't get Him reelected, in fact it will do the exact opposite, denial of reality will come smacking hard the day of election, because the election will be sealed by the unaffiliated undecided electors, and Biden's mental acuity won't win them over.
"loyalty." Heh. I'm not loyal to Biden. I would prefer another viable candidate. But unfortunately, here we are. I don't have another viable democratic candidate. The party doesn't have another viable candidate.
So I'm going to vote Biden. Mainly because I absolutely do not want Trump.
That's the new narrative they're pushing -- that it's about loyalty to Biden and not action against Trump.