Windows Updated and is Pushing More Stuff

That's actually a good thing IMO, Microsoft is giving people more reasons to switch to Linux. How kind of them!

The new Debian is fucking awesome.

Debian have been fucking awesome since i installed it 23 years ago! It was leaps and bounds better then it's contemporaries.

I agree, although I used to use it for a dev server and SSH in. It’s a great piece of kit!

Random question but you'd probably know. If I had Debian 11 when debiann12 came out will it update or do you need to reinstall? How has this worked in the past and how do you think the jump from 12 to 13 will work?

I'm used to rolling releases but I recently put Debian on my laptop

I have never needed to reinstall Debian. if sources.list say stable, you'd upgrade automatically. but normally the sources specify the release name "bullseye" and you would change that to bookworm when you want to upgrade.

I installed Debian potato right after 2000 sometime. Because i was so annoyed by running into rpm hell with early redhat releases whatever and having to reinstall all the time. and I apt upgraded to Debian woody, and following the release notes, everything worked. At the time that was wild to see. Have been running Debian on all the servers i touch at work since. The Release notes contain information about what is changed from a regular installation. So you can follow the new defaults if you so want.
I DD'd the installation to a larger harddrive, before upgrading to sarge. and by then it had become a bit of a sport, while not being necessary in any way I have kept on upgrading, and moving my daily driver over to new machines for fun.

If you want a rolling release, you can run Debian testing, if you want stability you can depend on, run Debian stable. testing will stick a bit before release, and then have a period of rapid changes after release, but for a not critical desktop, it is generally very nice.

if you want to keep your system healthy tru the decades make sure you read the issues to be aware of in chapter 5 of the release notes for each new release : https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ they contain vital changes you may want to do to keep your system more similar to a freshly installed one.

what's cool about it?

Debian is the most stable operating system ever, and it’s new version 12, is a really good OS.

What I liked was that it starts quick, never crashes, uses minimal system resources, and with GNOME has an excellent UI. Being a Linux OS that isn’t Ubuntu and isn’t Windows, it doesn’t spy on me.

Also love operating systems that use Bash or similar. I know how to drive them, I don’t know how to drive MSDOS.

I have a very powerful computer but the start time difference between Windows 11 and Debian is insane. Debian starts almost instantly.

I was specifically trying Debian as a gaming platform, so I installed Steam and GOG and a couple of Windows games running through proton. They worked really well.

In the end I had to go back to Window, because it’s just not there for me yet. Most games worked well, but a few have unacceptably low performance. It requires a bit of fiddling to get everything working right as well, because some of the defaults prevent people from just gaming.

i tried mint a couple years back and had a similar experience as far as gaming went, yeah

Good point, adds to the mountain. I may just see if I could run a windows VM at this point tbh.

I switched to Pop!_OS recently and Windows runs faster in a VM

(because you've only installed the 1 app you need to run not your entire life, and then snapshot it after debloating so it's always the same)

Yeah, I think I am going to setup a VM. I only need it for work due to Windows apps that would work just fine in a VM.

I am actually considering Qubes OS, which might take some work but overall would probably be a good seamless process.

How do you like Pop!_OS? I was looking at System76 computers one day and looked into it a couple years ago. Never gave it a try though, based off Ubuntu right?

Ubuntu/Debian base yeah.

It just worked out of the box for me and runs everything that kept me locked to windows so I've stuck with it.

I've run Handbrake in a VM because the linux version doesn't allow setting the default folder for some reason but otherwise haven't needed Windows in months. and as long as I don't need to do anymore bulk trascoding I've probably seen the last of it.

If you don't play games like valorant, and only need windows for specific tasks then going with a windows VM is a good option.

We’re getting there! There’s still games that run much better on Windows, and some games still don’t have Linux support. But the numbers are shrinking like crazy (THANK YOU STEAMDECK, Steam is the best company for game health as a whole.)

Also with VR… well, I don’t actually know. I haven’t tried, but will my index be fully functional (and run as well) on Linux?

It would not help. They just buy a Chromebook instead because there are no other alternatives in the shop. It would be a different story if the thing when you start the new computer get a guide to choose your OS to use. Even better if Android was the same. EU should force this IMO.

ah yes the non-idealistic idealist, i always admired your kind

Windows is nagware now. Microsoft dared to imagine an entire OS on the Winrar model.

Its actually worse than that. I PAID for Windows. If I paid for WinRAR they would stop.

Well WinRAR only nags you when you use it, unlike windows that is always running and almost always nagging.

If you stop using Windows, it also stops nagging you.

I have but for this PC, and only due to game pass not working nice on Linux (I like to play games with old friends far away)

I understand. If you don't already know it, you can look up here if your games would work on Linux: https://www.protondb.com/

I game on Linux but my friends on xboxs, proton does not come into it sadly.

I wish they went with the winrar model. Winrar just nags you once when starting. Windows keeps trying to trick you into giving them your data and signing up for a subscription.

Don't you compare windows to that time honoured and helpful software. WinRAR knows when to quit, and is free

So many comments shitting here and not giving helpful advice at all, so so fucking stupid. The best way to get ahead of this would be when the next time this pops up, press Shift + f10 and then type "OOBE\BYPASSNRO" easy and simple, takes only a few seconds and makes everything more seamless, such as no one drive bullshit etc..

Easy and simple

Dont forget to shit on linux afterwards for how difficult it is

Honestly I find constantly having to keep on top of disabling questionable windows features and bloat (knowing I've definitely missed something) more difficult and exhausting than just using linux. Linux feels way more "easy and simple" to me than windows ever has been.

I really didn't think anything about linux before but the number of people on lemmy being so annoying about linux just makes me really dislike it.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/all/set-up-windows-11-without-internet-oobebypassnro/4fc44554-b416-4ecb-8961-6f79fd55ae0f

Then delete system32 folder?

What are these instructions actually doing?

Idk how it works but if you type this on the console you will never get this window again.

press Shift + f10 and then type "OOBE\BYPASSNRO" easy and simple, takes only a few seconds

Not picking on you, that is actually really good advice and a neat shortcut I'll be trying myself. I just think it's funny all the reddit threads regarding Linux usage, someone will pop in with a simple commands to get whatever the user wants done quickly (Ex: Open the Console and type "sudo apt update" then "sudo apt upgrade" and you'll be good!) and they get shit on with comments like "OMG! You have to Open a terminal to do anything! This is why Windowz rules and Linux is for fanboy dorks!!"

Btw, I dual boot.

I understand. I use Linux with dual boot myself and I know how great and free it feels to just use a terminal for everything. However, I cannot count how many times I have been frustrated when something just doesn't work. Some software that doesn't exist in apt is can be hard to install sometimes if you have to compile it yourself. And if you want to delete something that you didn't install via apt?? Good luck with that. Linux doesn't exist without its own problems. The use cases for both windows and Linux are very different. It doesn't fit everybody

I'll give that a try, thank you.

I believe this method was blocked. But it's also not what the screen shot is. This is an update screen.

It worked on my machine. Also, why would they block it?? This specific command was definitely added by some Microsoft engineer, and not just for shits and giggles. There must have been some reason to add it in the first place, and certainly no reason to block it.

Sorry, missed your reply. I run the setup for Windows on a lot of computers. Last time I tried that command it wasn't working. I used to be able to start the setup and once you got to the point of needing to sign in to a Microsoft account you could skip it. They removed that. Then this command you are talking about worked for a bit. Then removing the ethernet cable worked for a while, Microsoft closed that too. Currently I connect the machines to a network and attempt to log into an account, but mistype the password. This will give an error and allow a local account. Unfortunately these are machines for sale, so I can't use a Microsoft account like they want. It's a whole "thing". However, if it's your own machine, use Rufus to create a boot disk that will bypass the Microsoft account requirement.

Why would they block it? Because they want everyone to use a Microsoft account, and they have been getting more and more aggressive about it.

Edit: forgot to mention again, OP's post image is from an update message and not initial Win 11 install. The command to skip the sign on is for OOBE, "out of box experience". Aka initial setup.

For this screen not to come back, Settings notifications turn off the last three checkboxes

How did you learn this? Serious question, as I probably will be using Windows at whatever job I get. A huge part of what has made Linux so easy to learn is that there's always documentation. There's no secrets, even if it might be a lot of reading. Everything I learned about Windows I either bumbled my way into it or learned from someone else who was taught.

To be honest, you just have to Google things that you really want to fix. Genuinely just ask it how to make simple things simpler and you will find so much helpful stuff out there. If you feel some discomfort while using windows, know that there's always a way to make something easier and simpler, you just have to find it

To be clear, I've been using Windows since I was literally in diapers [3]. Only this summer did I take the plunge and actually start using Linux as a daily driver. I generally know my way around a Windows system because of Googling things I don't know.

My concern is because I have been using Windows as a "home" user, e.g. on non-enterprise systems, there's going to be a whole bunch of stuff that I don't know that I have no chance of finding unless I happen to know an experienced sysadmin.

IMO, Googling [1] things is often how I solve computer problems, but it's a very strange way of working if you think about it. Shouldn't our software tell us how to use it? At the bare minimum, software designed for use by the general public, including those who aren't familiar with computers

It's a bit of a strange response, "go to company A for information about company B's products". And yet, it is the response I unfortunately have to choose time and time again because Microsoft is too protective of their secrets, including apparently how to use their OS. Microsoft, who as a reminder is a business trying to convince me to keep buying their product, should be the primary source of information about their product.

Microsoft does have some online support, but they don't have it at the level of detail that Linux does. What has really amazed me about Linux is that the various developers actually tell you how to use their software [2]. If there's something not in the manual, they probably don't know enough about it to have finished the documentation. In those scenarios, you can go make an issue on GitHub. As complicated as Linux has been to learn, it's been a lot less "Google [1] it" and a lot more "read the docs".

If you feel some discomfort while using Windows, know that there's always a way to make something easier and simpler, you just have to find it

Well...no, actually. For example, if I want to replace the user interface, you cannot do that. You can change it cosmetically, and there are a few registry entries you can fiddle with, but if you want to throw out the whole thing and use a completely different desktop environment, you're out of luck. I installed my copy of Debian with KDE Plasma, but I also installed LXDE as an option for the rare cases when I need all 16GB of my RAM. I also tried out XFCE and LXQT to give them their fair shake. The default for Debian is actually GNOME, which I knew from prior experience was not for me. Actually, I wouldn't use a system where the only option is GNOME, so the freedom to choose a desktop environment (or none at all; e.g. window managers or the command line for the brave) was a precondition to my adoption of Linux.

Every single part of my system can be swapped out for something else. Even the kernel need not be "pure" Linux. For example, I do a lot of real-time audio computing, so I've been "shopping for" the best kernel for real-time audio. There are a few patched kernels specifically for real-time applications, although the default Linux kernel is quite good.

This is far from the only area where Windows locks you into a choice. Actually, it's a lot worse than that; Windows (more accurately Microsoft) continues to lock me into choices because I have to limit my choices to those that work with Windows installations. They could add Linux compatibility to their systems (because the whole ecosystem is open source, they don't need to reverse-engineer anything; just copy the Linux stuff!), but they choose not to do so, and instead insist on proprietary formats.

[1] I don't use Google search anymore. IMO the only use case for Google search is when you are somehow required to use it. In the example above, I would never allow company A to be Google, because based on Google's history it is clear that Google ought not exist. I often allow company A to be DuckDuckGo or an amalgamation of stripped results from SearXNG, but even then I think that the usage of company B's products should be the domain of company B.

[2] It's not perfect, but systematically it seems like more than an attempt has been made to document the various FOSS software components. For example, some of the more obscure KDE software have holes in the docs, which I have actually been running up against in the past few days. The rest of the KDE software has excellent documentation, and if you're a Plasma user, it's probably already on your computer. Remember, this is coming from a largely volunteer development force; compare that with the power and professional workforce of Microsoft.

[3] I have worked and played in every non-enterprise Windows OS from Windows 95 to Windows 10. I have used Windows 11 a handful of times but I'm not very familiar with it, besides the baseline familiarity that comes from working with NT systems in general.

What's your point here? If you want to argue with me about semantics then I absolutely could not care less about it. Yes of course you can't change shit, because windows is designed this way. It's made this way for people who don't know how to do things be able to easily Google their problem and find a step by step solution that is almost certain to work since windows ui doesn't change a lot. Also, at this point googling is a popular verb which means "searching shit on the internet". Use whatever browser you want, I use brave search and searx from my distro. Congratulations on successfully shitting on windows, like everybody else in this thread.

Of course Linux is better for most intents and purposes, but that's entirely not the fucking point here. The point here is how to use windows better? With all the shit Microsoft does? And the answer is you search it on the internet, it's just how it is and complaining about it and saying Linux does it better does not change anything.

If you have a problem in windows, for example one of the things I was really annoyed about in win11 was that whenever I searched something on the task bar, an internet result would pop up that will open bing on edge. I didn't want that so I googled it (searched on the internet with brave search) and turns out that you can add a registry my that can disable all web searches from the taskbar! So Yay one annoyance fixed. There are hundreds of things like that which you can just search and figure out a way to disable a shit Microsoft thing or bypass it.

What I had originally meant was that in general, you can control a lot behind the scenes in windows, even if you can't see it up front. You can shit on it all you want but being toxic to people and telling them to install Linux is obviously not the way to go. Gatekeeping is for idiots. Use what you want to use, do what you think is best for you, and I do what is best for me. From time to time I do use windows to play some games that don't work on Linux yet, or use some software that doesn't support Linux and I don't want to spend hours trying to figure out how to install there. It's efficient for me and that's how I keep it.

Windows is terrible at a lot of things, and Linux is terrible at a lot of things too but those things are completely different and it is no use to compare as everyone's needs are different. There is no one size fits all, there never will be.

Yeah just a bunch of Linux nerds on their high horse feeling smug. This attitude actively pushes people away from your platform, not towards it. If you want more people to use Linux the first step is NOT acting like a smug dick about it.

Exactly, the one thing you cannot do is force someone to move to Linux. They eventually do it on their own when they get tired of being shit on by Microsoft, or just see in general that yeah! This specific thing is gonna make my life so much easier! That's why I did it and I understand why people wouldn't want to switch to it, there's nothing that we can do about it

thanks!

I wonder whether the developers who wrote this script, did it in order to avoid these annoying messages by themselves

If it's your own machine, I recommend running one of the Windows 11 debloaters.

I've moved all of my personal machines over to Linux (specifically Ubuntu). Windows just isn't worth it anymore.

That's a good recommendation, I actually did run a windows debloater/spyware before. This just happened to be snuck in with an update I guess? I should probably do it again at this point.

I wouldn't use Windows if I didn't have too...I do run Tails and Ubuntu as well but unfortunately 40hrs+ a week on Windows...it sucks.

You have to run it again after every major update.

Run the debloater every update. Some stuff in there is actual settings, but other stuff will be "repaired" by windows.

Also, a workaround to that screen (so far, at least) is to shut the computer down and start up again and it doesn't return till next update.

Okay, nice! Good information!

Question: if you already don't like Windows, I assume you don't care about the new features that come with new updates. So I wonder - why do you update at all? Set everything up as you want it, remove all the hot garbage as you see fit, and disable updates.

Skipping software updates is not a good idea, let alone OS updates. Inbetween all the terribly annoying bullshit they insist on foisting off on people, they do provide security patches and so on.

Primarily for drivers and security updates.

You have a point, I could turn off updates and manually update as I need too but my frustration is that there are ads in the first place.

my frustration is that there are ads in the first place

Fair enough, a very good point.

Personally I've been using customized / debloated versions of windows for a couple years now and have not looked back. Every time I spin up a stock Windows VM I'm shocked how atrocious the experience is. Though I understand that a Windows ISO modified by an unknown third party can be scary to some.

I think I would trust an unknown 3rd parties ISO more then the stock Windows at this point really...

There's been a pretty recent development in the Windows Customization community which released a new toolkit, essentially allowing you to write YAML-based scripts with custom instructions how to modify a live windows installation, which makes the process completely open-source and transparent. I can link some of the projects pages if youre interested to learn more.

How do you like the Snap store and snap packages being pushed on you silently when you try to install packages through APT? :)

Give them a break. They just moved from Windows, you just need to relearn to breath after that. Moving to another distro is a small step in comparison.

Not new to Linux, it's literally what I've been dealing with for work for the last decade. I just meant that I moved the last of my personal machines away from Windows.

I have run into zero issues installing packages from other places. The snap store is a bit annoying but not a big deal. I've been on and off using Ubuntu since ~2005 so that's why I went with it over another distro.

You want a broken Windows install? This is how you get a broken Windows install.

Speaking from experience here. I've done this on over a dozen different computers with zero issues over a three month span. It was part of a proposal for transitioning our company computers to Windows 11 while cutting out the junk. None of them had any problems running without Xbox services, Cortana, bloatware games, activity tracking, etc.

We ended up using Microsoft Intune for restricting Windows 10/11 to our standards. But that's not really available for consumers and debloaters are safe to use instead.

This kind of shit is what made me switch to Linux. I just didn't feel like I owned my computer anymore.

Yeah, I'm going to see about Quebes or just running VM inside Ubuntu at this point.

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The most infuriating thing about windows to me is the big stupid fucking red X on every single file, reminding me that I'm not currently storing my shit on someone else's computer. Is there a way to remove that service from my computer entirely?

Uninstall onedrive

That's what I did, it's one of the few things that it does let you uninstall.

Disable Manage folder backup feature in OneDrive settings -> Backup -> Manage backup -> Stop backup on all folders, or toggle them off on newer version.

It’s not your computer, it’s Microsoft’s. That’s the message I get from using windows.

In otherwords, it's Apple now, but with none of the benefits.

We can bitch all we want but their dollars still go up

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You can prevent this. Click remind later then go to your notifications in the settings app. Uncheck "Suggest ways I can finish setting up" and anything else you don't want to see.

I love that I have to go out of my way and follow online instructions to undo something that they forced on me in the first place. That's customer antagonistic design for you.

Alternatively: You can prevent this. Use a different operating system.

This is the best option, I like Fedora

You meant GNU/Linux.

GNU/BSD or GNU/HURD would be fine, too. Or even something like ReactOS or Haiku, for that matter.

The important thing is that the OS respects you as the owner of the computer and does what you tell it to do, instead of trying to subvert your authority to serve a master other than yourself (e.g. the OS publisher or third-parties that want to colonize your property for their own benefit).

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Image Transcription:

The Windows 11 Set Up Wizard with the following text: Let's finish setting up your PC Your PC needs to be backed up and connected to a few more Microsoft services to help you work more easily and securely across all your devices. Back up your files with OneDrive cloud storage Have peace of mind knowing they're backed up and available across your devices. Enhance your web browsing experience Restore Microsoft recommended browser settings. Achieve more with a Microsoft 365 subscription Get premium Microsoft 365 apps, 1 TB of cloud storage to back up files and photos, and more. Back up your phone to your PC Access your phone's photos, texts, and more, right on your PC. Sign in quickly with Windows Hello Securely unlock your device with a touch or a smile. Below are the buttons Remind me in 3 days and Continue

[I am a human, if I’ve made a mistake please let me know. Please consider providing alt-text for ease of use. Thank you. 💜]

Is there a way to put alt text in lemmy? I could see the benefit especially for screen readers. I could only see putting it in the content section right?

Mostly I've seen it in the text part of the post as part or all of the description/text.

Eh, this particular screen is kind if misleading. You say you dont see a "skip" or "do not remind again" button, well that's because those buttons are on the next screen(s) for each individual feature. I've gotten this screen a couple times, just click through and you can skip/opt out of all the features. It's kind of silly, but I think the point is that they want you to look at each new feature individually.

Yeah, but nothing here would be considered as a "new feature" and each is an ad for a product that OP chose not to use during initial install. As such, s/he shouldn't be reminded of them, especially not during an OS update and certainly not with an unskippable window. Yes, s/he has the option to skip each feature individually later, but this initial window is either a "remind me later" or a "do it now".

To get into specifics of each item:

OneDrive has been around forever.

If OP customized his/her browsing experience, s/he clearly doesn't want "Microsoft recommended browser settings" (which, by the way, is Edge with Bing search and with all telemetry turn on high).

365 has been around for a while, and this thing is pushing the subscription (by definition, an ad for a paid product).

Windows Phone app isn't new, either.

Microsoft Hello has been around for about as long as Windows Phone app and features.

Then this screen itself is misleading, because it gives no indication that you don't need to do the stuff. It should have the X to close the screen, like every other window that isn't malware.

It should have the X to close the screen, like every other window that isn’t malware.

In other words, it's designed exactly as intended.

Windows 10 is my last windows. When it's no longer supported I guess I'll have to learn to use Linux.

I'm not waiting for that, just waiting until I have a free few days to figure out linux.

Also abandoning Android for Graphene as soon as I get a new phone.

Enshittification advances ever onwards

It only takes like an evening. Go with Linux Mint and essentially you will be using your computer in a half hour. Everything else is the fun of discovering all the cool stuff that Linux does easier and more flexible than Windows.

Agreed. Linux Mint shows just how turnkey the user-friendly distros are these days. Even though it is not designed as one of the lightweight, speedy and efficient distributions for experts, it absolutely feels that way compared to windows. And that’s with windows running natively and Mint in a VM.

Can you elaborate on the cool stuff?

The terminal is essentially arcane magic, with bash scripting out of the box, this is big if you're a programmer. Most Linux desktop environments have workspaces and tiling features which make workflow really easy and fluid. Something that Windows is only getting now on W11. Everything is customizable, so you will learn the meaning of the term “ricing”. Which is to make your desktop look as cool as possible, since everything from the fonts and icons to the color of the taskbars and transparency are 100% customizable. There are several rabbit holes you can choose to go into just on aesthetics. But then you have actual productivity stuff like learning your distro's package manager, backup utilities, etc.

Just wrote myself a bash script that uses ssh to fork to background, authentication via key to an ssh server it creates; forwards to tor; tor OR proxies to socks5; creates a shadowsocks server and client, connects the client; and forwards to a remote socks5 server via ssh dynamic forwarded port.

This is my first real script.

Linux is bonkers.

I love it.

Also: Gtk is the way. Qt is not my friend.

Give us an update in a few months how that goes for you

Been on Linux for 15+ years and on graphene for about a year. It's fine. Keep a backup (quarantined) Windows box for games but don't use it much.

Keep a backup (quarantined) Windows box for games but don’t use it much.

The last vestige of my Windows install is a disk image that I haven't touched in half a decade. The SSD it was on itself has long since been reused for something else.

Or you can use ShutUp to turn off a bunch of annoying shit that microsoft pushes

Is it open source?

You should probably start learning before your OS is out of support.

Windows 7 was my last Windows. Why wait?

You could try dual booting to make the migration a little less extreme. I started that around the time Windows 11 came out and realized about a year later I don't use Windows for personal stuff anymore. Windows is now gone and I do not really miss it.

Pro-tip for dual booting Linux: make it the primary OS. Humans are inherently resistant to change, so you need to set yourself up for overcoming that.

If you shift over to Windows 10 LTSC you'll get security updates until 2032.

Don't support Windows. Just use windows activation scripts and run Chris Titus Tech's Windows security and debloating script. If you can, you're better off on Linux.

Go to Settings > System > Notifications. Turn off the last three check boxes. This screen won't come back.

Through the door with the sign "Beware of the Leopard".

I swear this gets posted weekly, there’s a simple solution but it’s always missing from the comments.

Go into notification settings

Uncheck "Suggest ways I can finish setting up my device to get the most out of Windows"

While you’re at it, turn off any of the other suggestion / recommendation settings.

Except Microsoft will occasionally reset settings on updates.

I did already have this turned off, and it still pops things up like this and trying to get me to sign into a Microsoft account. It's just annoying and they don't provide an option to skip or don't remind me again which makes it even worse.

The problem is, there's no immediately visible option to stop this crap; stopping said crap therefore takes time, which is an individual person's single most valuable resource. People have to go searching through settings or go googling 'how do I do this' in order to disable this, and even that slight inconvenience means there's going to be a lot of people that want to disable it, but end up not bothering, and that's not a good thing. Rule of thumb, if it's not absolutely trivial to do on a whim, it may as well be impossible.

The thing that really rubs me the wrong way about all this is we pay for Windows, I have 3 licenses for Windows 11 and it's gotten so annoying that I don't even use them anymore. I've been a Linux user for quite a while already and between Microsoft's doing more and more data collection, and more ads, I just walked away from it a couple years ago. Fortunately, I was in a position where I could do so. I feel bad for folks that must use Windows for this or that and can't escape it.

You just have to pick your poison. Windows is easy to use. I don't want a walled garden ios machine, nor do I want to spend 2 hours on a forum trying to troubleshoot every little thing on Linux.

I have used both Windows and Linux extensively, and although Linux used to be a serious amount of nonsense to get stuff to work, it's not like that any more. I spend similar amounts of time troubleshooting on each. Help for Linux sometimes is better. If you end up on the Microsoft answers forum, good luck to you, because it means the real answer is buried somewhere on the Internet, if it's there at all.

Agree , ubuntu, mint and popos are just works distros with max number of apps available , flatpak ( tho controversial in the linux community) has also given good option for just works distros to be user friendly ! My non technical family members have been using linux for years now without any issues !

That's not really how Linux is now. At least not Ubuntu varieties

If I had a dollar for everytime someone said Linux isn't bad now is be living on Mars.

What you're really saying is your needs are simple and you've managed to get what you need.

This does not translate to everyone as others might have more complex needs than you.

TrackIR is still a nightmare on Linux, and searching for help with that reveals about 10 situations where no one got a good result and one person who seemingly got lucky.

Another issue is MS Office. Formatting and macros get broken by FOSS alternatives so don't even go there.

There are at least a dozen more issues (NVIDIA, difficult hardware etc ...).

Suffice to say everytime someone pops up saying it works now just starts looking silly.

Until we get native support and better documentation and testing Linux is still an outlier for anything more than basic productivity or gaming in a bubble.

maybe I'm naive but I have a hard time believing msoffice macros are a major part of most business' workflows. any serious application is going to be working in a scripting language from a database. if you're still dependent on Ms office macros your business needed to retool a decade ago.

I can't speak to the other ”problems” you detailed, but if the msoffice complaint is any indication, I strongly recommend you find a new company and fast.

All it has to do is affect one person that needs that feature and it's a no go for that person.

It is rare for me but it is still an issue.

Formatting being broken is an even worse issue and happens far too often.

As a Linux user I can tell you that I run into plenty of issues no matter what distro I use. I still prefer it over windows.

Exactly this. Tried Linux mint a while but everything was a hastle for me as a new user. Every program I wanted to install had a different method to do so. I ended up not much using the laptop where I installed it on. A pity, I love alternative software.

I always laugh that the option not to get Microsoft 365 is just "Stay Basic"

That means Microsoft 365 is an acid. Because avoiding acids is how you stay basic.

Or you could be neutral, why do neutrals always get oppressed

I have no strong feelings one way or the other.

What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?

Windows is actually right back where it used to be, to be honest. Getting pretty tired of the whole "ecosystem" tech philosophy.

Local account and disabled as much as I could

2023-08 Cumulative Update Preview for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for x64-based Systems

Why are you running updates for beta testers, if you decided to disable as much as you could? Those "Preview" updates will install everything you're missing and more every time, that's their purpose.

Switch to stable updates only, and you won't have that problem... or at least have it way less often.

They will definitely still have the problem.

I literally do not have anything extra turned on, including the Insider Program has always been off. Other then automatic updates, so your guess is as good as mine as why "Preview" updates or otherwise would be pushed. It's not that I'm enrolled in beta or anything.

Windows is bullshit

Just upgrade back to Windows 10.

Windows 10 has this same screen, just a bit different looking. You turn off this notification in the settings menu.

Is that even possible? I thought it was randomly forcing the change to Windows 11 on Windows 10 users anyway.

My PC cant run windows 11 outright, which is hilarious since most of the parts are relatively new.

They are desperate because 2/3 of their userbase still uses Windows 10.

Look, i don't mind the CPU/TPM requirement too much now, but did you really needed to mess up the interface? (Plus, forcing you to have Teams always installed.)

Several things always installed, it's annoying really lol

Laughing from Debian

When it asks for an account just use a@a.a

or no@thankyou.com

Or if its windows pro, choose for work, then say you will domain join instead of use a Microsoft account. It will let you just make a local account, and you can just not domain join it.

I'm partial to fuck@you.ms

I have created several variants of StopMakingMeCreateAccountsToInstallWindows@outlook.com and then change to a local account after install.

This was since forever in Windows 10

Im going to bat for Microsoft here, coming from someone who uses both for work+home.

How many tech enthusiast/pcgamers are paying customers of Microsoft? I'd bet that most of us are using grey market OEM keys or reusing a license we've had upgraded from a previous install.

Communities like ours love to harpe on about how 95% of people are not bothered by the invasiveness of the telemetry and advertising, yet those are the very same people that are likely subscribing to Office365, not changing their default browser from Edge, and not installing an adblocker.

These are, in a sense, the "paying customer" to whom any profit driven company would be trying to improve experience of. Setting up cloud backup, signing in to your PC with your phone, using an online account are all good things from a general user perspective. I'd bet they have the telemetry to back this up.

I wish MS would release a SKU which was targeted towards the tech enthusiast, but how would they make that profitable? Not to mention I think a lot of us have a few fundamental misunderstandings on the current situation, some examples;

Telemetry is essential to modern software development, people don't submit enough bug reports and nor should they be expected to for things like device drivers.
The store/store apps is a better delivery model for software than going to a website to grab the setup.exe. It enforces standardisation, simplifies the process for devs to push updates and isolates user applications from the underlying operating system.
Even these days you can configure Windows to not include a lot of the stuff people complain about if you're ok with Powershell. At one point in time, being a power user in Windows for both home and work was just about knowing where the GUI buttons are. Now it is about being comfortable in a command line.

I need to purge myself after all that corporate shilling.

The Univ and College where I work are forcing every students and staff to use Office 365, and the MS authentificator app for 2fa. They pay millions every years to Microsoft for this, plus the thousand of licences for windows, etc.

Why in the world would you defend that greedy unethtical corporation that now incorporate advertisment directly in windows and keep pushing more and more of their products with every forced update. They make millions only with schools in my provinces.

How many tech enthusiast

yet those are the very same people that are likely subscribing to Office365, not changing their default browser from Edge, and not installing an adblocker.

Really? Those two things do not seem to go together.

I'd bet that most of us are using grey market OEM keys or reusing a license we've had upgraded from a previous install.

It's a hard number to figure out, maybe but I personally don't know anyone since Windows 7 reusing licenses. But overall, a good point.

yet those are the very same people that are likely subscribing to Office365, not changing their default browser from Edge, and not installing an adblocker.

This is another number hard to figure out. It seems to me most people who do complain about people being okay about it have at least something implemented which is still better then nothing. At least they are aware, most of the people I come across either A) Don't even think about it, aren't aware or B) They are aware and use at least something to reduce it.

are all good things from a general user perspective.

Yes, I agree many of these services may be beneficial to general users who don't have anything already. My issue is this is all covered during setup and I went out of my way to disable all the services possible, especially a Microsoft account but it keeps pushing for it...at least add a "Don't remind me again" or something.

I wish MS would release a SKU which was targeted towards the tech enthusiast

Yes, that would be ideal and it may be a product sold but from a business stand point I think most would still stick with using scripts etc for removing/disabling. So I could see why not.

This is a very good perspective for the non power user

Why do you need telemetry when you can simply do UX studies, which Microsoft can and already does. I've even been part of a few. Microsoft is also moving away from Windows being their flagship product and is focusing more on office services and azure in terms of profit.

3 more...

Windows N is the closest I've seen

3 more...

I never understood why anyone would pay for office 365 or use something like hello. Like Libreoffice is free and does the same job with less bullshit. And last time I checked windows is not running on any ones phones so why push the leftover failed features?

To this day there are things that you can only do in Excel for Windows. Not Mac, not web, only Windows excel. If you are a spreadsheet power user, you are stuck with both Office and Windows. If you work in the corporate world, you are stuck with Office and most likely Windows.

Really? I have never ran into anything like that. I worked in the corporate world for 10 years and used open office then libreoffice. My company had office but I hated it.

Excel is far, far ahead of the competition. I wish it wasn't that way, but it just is.

Guess I would not know, myself and my businesses have not used Excel in years. Out of curiosity whats missing from the free Excel rip offs? Hotkeys, formulas, or what?

I'm curious about this as well. I have used Libreoffice for years without an issue. My understanding as always been that Microsoft Office products just have more advertising and so many people got/get trained in it that it's just easier then to learn it differently to use LibreOffice software.

I was not aware there was anything missing, other then maybe the cloud. I do know smaller businesses and even some schools who have swapped to LibreOffice but usually overseas, outside the US.

If your competition is other spreadsheet programs, then yes. If your competition is Python or R, absolutely not.

If you're using Excel so much to the point that certain things can only be done in Excel on Windows, just learn Python.

This feels awfully as a desperate move...

Are M$ numbers dwindling lately or are they just scared there is a rise in Linux users (even non tech savvy) and this is a desperate move to capture more peope?

I do believe there is a up tick in Linux users these days, probably not enough though. The main downside the the popular use of Windows in business, if they get converted Microsoft would probably really struggle even with their other markets.

I find it tedious to have to disable Microsoft crap that is switched on without my knowledge in windows. Get a copy of Autoruns to disable most of that crap at startup.

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll have a look!

It's time to come back to the light. I'm soon making the switch to Linux for good. I was waiting for gaming to become much more accessible... But I was messing up before because I was downloading the wrong drivers.

I've been learning how to use it by keeping my main machine on win10 while my laptop is on pop os. Using that to test my games and learn.

I've been using it long enough that once I get a good break from life, I'll be going thru the steps to switch my gaming PC over.

What I'm probably going to do is reinstall windows 11, complete updates, run de-bloater. Then install Ubuntu along side windows (super easy) and disable Ubuntu Telemetry. Use Ubuntu as primary for just about anything, have a win VM if I can use it or worst case Windows still available if I absolutely need it.

I wanted to try Quebes but my device isn't compatible. Having Win installed, I could use it strictly for gaming too if I wanted.

I wanted to try Quebes but my device isn’t compatible.

Really? AFAIK the only thing special it requires that a normal OS doesn't is virtualization, and any reasonably-modern x86 CPU should support that just fine. What does your hardware lack?

Hardware virtualization is often disabled in the bios by default and probably just needs to be enabled. Called something like AMD-VT or INTEL-Vd

AMD Ryzen 7 7840HS w/ Radeon 780M Graphics 3.80 GHz 16.0 GB DDR5 @ 5600 With the GeForce RTX 4060 Laptop GPU

I ensured bios were setup, attempted to install and it didn't even show an error when selecting to install or live test and install. The device just restarted and nothing.

I'm actually going to give it another try, I made a fresh USB for it, it's worth a fair attempt. I know the GPU is gonna probably be unusable, but I was looking at Qubes for 80% of my tasks.

If you're going to reinstall windows, try installing tiny11: https://github.com/ntdevlabs/tiny11builder.

I've heard a lot of good things about it, consider this.

Nice, I'll check it out! I only plan on still having it installed because some exams I take might not work in a VM. Literally the only reason I plan to dual boot.

Good for you. Keep working at it. I'm not sure what usecase you have for your computer, but I am very sure you'll find a solution or alternative to all your problems.

Note to be less pessimistic about this:

This is exactly how you are supposed to handle system settings being added to, removed or modified. You re-display a limited version of the first-run setup dialogue to the user. It feels familiar, they see it every so often, but you reduce it to the relevant pieces.

You may not like what MS changes, but from a user workflow this is sort-of the best case.

It would be better if there was a no option and not just a delay.

These aren't new or changed system settings though, apart from maybe Windows Hello (which isn't new anyway). Nearly everything on this screen is an attempt to upsell users on Microsoft's subscription products.

If a user doesn't want to buy those subscription products, and is given no way to properly decline, that it is a user hostile experience.

And having no other option than "remind me in 3 days" is bullshit which should get the product manager who signed off on it sent to prison

I'm fairly certain it can be turned off in windows notifications settings. "OS Setup Notifications" or something like that

Distrowatch.org

Even if there was the option to skip. I go through the whole setup each time all the way to finishing it. Yet it still comes up again the next time. It's infuriating.

Not sure what I expected from Microsoft though. I got a 365 subscription about two years ago. OneDrive never worked properly. It wouldn't sync, and the so-called "Personal Vault" would reset itself everyday while keeping the contents. Forcing me to go through the setup whenever I used it. The email though, was by far the worst. About a year ago everyone would start receiving an absolutely insane amount of spam/phishing emails. I was getting around sixty a day. I have no idea what Microsoft did to fuck things up so badly though.

Yeah, I did give them a try at one point primarily for windows login but too many privacy concerns and yes, I agree their products don't work for me either. Especially OneDrive and Edge has always been a pain coming built in.

So that's why my disk space has gone down so much

This has always, always, always been the case for me since I got a laptop with Windows 11 preinstalled on it. I dual boot Linux (openSUSE) and rarely use Windows, and this screen pops up like 5% of the time when I boot to Windows.

I got a new Asus laptop and had to set up windows to be able to get into the advanced boot settings and install Kubuntu. I am so glad I did

You shouldn't need to do the setup. The problem is by default windows hibernates instead of shuts down fully when you pick shut down. So your only real options are crash the computer or hit reboot.

Some manufacturers are nice and don't block you from getting into the bios when the OS is hibernated, but some suck.

Thank god i use GNU/Linux

Install. Linux.

Yes.

Yes, install Linux, yes, it's better, yes, it's a little different, but yes, you will like it better.

Bloat ware? Gone. Antivirus shit? Gone. Spyware? Gone. Reboots for bullshit reasons? Gone. Forced updates? Gone.

Yeah, but it's so complicated and games don't work because there are no drivers!

Bullshit. Drivers exist now for just a out everything and most drivers are put of the box, not like windows requiring installs. Most of not all games now work.

But I needy software X!

Many, not all, but MANY software packages out there have open source equivalents that many times are equal or better than what you're using. If not that, Wine will allow you to run a huge amount of windows software transparently on Linux. YMMV of course but "I need software x!" barely has been an excuse anymore for using windows.

Did I mention it's actually free, no piracy involved (though if that is your thing, lots of software available for that too)

Windows sucks. Microsoft software in general sucks. Microsoft platforms suck (looking at you there, outlook, teams, office, and SharePoint, oh my frigging god what pieces of shit you are)

My 3080 mobile didn't work with anything but arch.

I love Linux but even I get fed up with it a lot. I do think that 90% of games work now though.

Everything driver related except my graphics cards have been great.

Just saying though, Linux isn't a drag and drop replacement, but it's still good

I'll agree that Nvidia really needs to get their shit together, but it DOES work

interesting. I wonder whether that's specific to the mobile hardware. I have a 3080 running just fine on Mint.

It was specifically a problem with the razer blade I had. I can't remember the exact issue but Arch had the fix in their kernel or something and ubuntu didn't

I think it was specifically an issue with hybrid graphics with an amd cpu

It's not always so simple. I would love to use Linux at work, but my work doesn't allow me to.

I know, I had the same problem.leep asking them. I'm in the luxury position where I'll be able to decide what we'll be using

It's not work as a company, but work I do in the company, that is preventing me from using linux. I am software delevoper, and we are developing desktop WinForms and WPF apps. The main problem here is that both WinForms and WPF are tied to Windows, and they are not working on any other OS. We would love to port those programs to another platform, but you can't just port programs that are developed 10+ years overnight. Those project are just too big to port them in some normal time. And there are also 3rd party libraries, that we are required to use, that are made for .NET Framework only. I forgot to mention, that we are using .NET Framework, that is working only on Windows. We could use opensource .NET, which works also on Linux, but even in opensource .NET, both WinForms and WPF works only on Windows. We could use Avalonia instead, because it supports Linux also, but even that is not just straight forward. It would be easier to just create new programs from scratch, but you would still need to support older software, and we just don't have time nor resources to do that.

Interesting. This sounds similar like the company I'm working at right now. They too have all windows desktop apps and I'm working on porting it all to web apps that simply work on whatever you want to use. Granted, this will take (current estimate) a year or 2-3 if I'm doing it all by myself, but then they'll have an entirely new platform that is a bazillion times better than they have now and it will work with Linux without a hitch.

I guess the solution there is to just start, somewhere anywhere.

I built my own framework for this, specialized to build web forms and handle tables easily so with this I can rebuild all their required functionalities quite fast

good points but it's not so black and white

Nothing is black and white but in windows vs Linux it's simple: you want to get your computer back for just you? You want to do whatever the hell you need to do? Switch to Linux and be happy

Not gonna claim its eay to use, not gonna claim it's easy to install, not gonna claim its easy to replace existing software wit OSS alternatives.

But damn, it feels so good.

It is super easy to install it's super easy to use. Finding replacements for software in Oss products may take a little time but I've found everything I need since 20 years ago. Today nearly everything is out there .

Sure, backup is not something you can skip, but the others: Yes. And the backup option should show other alternatives like Veeam, otherwise they are abusing their position in the market and be banned from EU.

Yes, they dont respect the user choose either. Thinking it is their computer.

Shifting to Linux is a solution but not for everyone. Like IT only support Windows computers to minimize cost.

Me at home: If only I could pay someone to build as smooth fonts on Linux as it is on Windows in the web browser by default. Only when websites use fully custom fonts they look good. But default with new Times roman get unusual small or big without truetype etc. Also many applications in the Linux world have poor UI due to poor funding. Result is no designer and gigantic hit area for button due to too far between the buttons.

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about but your typical Linux UI tends to look enormously better than windows, beauty being in the eye of the beholder of course.

The way you talk it sounds like you saw Linux 20 years ago and figured it still is stuck there. I have a 3D multi monitor desktop with all the bling you can imagine. Much of it is just that, bling, and I mostly use it to convince people that Linux is awesome (come for the bling, stay for the actual real awesomeness) bit seriously, typical Linux looks SO much better than windows.. try KDE desktop, for example.

You can on a website with HTML 5 specify exactly the font and how it should be interpreted. Those look exactly the same. Good. But if they are not use then often some old font names are used with no more info than size. If nothing specified then browser default font is used. But what about anti-aliasing and handling the hinting? It is about trick the eye to think something is very round when it in reality it built based on squared pixels. Microsoft Truetype was a must when you made the transition from CRT screens to LCD screens. I have seen websites were the text makes the column wider, into the need row and messing up the whole websites layout due to this. I think what it all comes down is that Microsoft old fonts are therefore still used a lot. On Android it is all okey due to we have such high DPI screens.

Yes, over the last years fonts have improved a lot, making the Desktop look good.

What you're saying is something that should be fixed by responsive design and ensuring that your required fonts can be downloaded though your page (source: I built (for over 20 years) and build web page systems myself for a living). Anti aliasing should not cause your webpage to be rendered wrong in any way. Maybe it looks nicer or not, but your layout should not be messed up over that.

Either way, websites these days just send the fonts they want. Don't start about efficiency on that, people seem not to care anyway, but it does all work. Also on Linux.

I've had a Linux only desktop for the last 20 years and I've never had issues with any websites

Will digital combat simulator and my IR head tracking work?

I don't know, but there is a good chance. Try

Apparently DCS works (with lots of problems) through wine, but the trackIR doesn't work and the HOTAS has issues. DAW works but MIDI also looks like a massive PITA....

I don't know what HOTAS is but it sounds like something very specific / specialized? Maybe contact the supplier and ask if they have Linux drivers available? A lot of times it's not that hard to support Linux as a platform.

Remember, there are always alternatives..

It's been like that for at least a ear.

Left or right one?

Oh my god, ahaha.

Yes.

That ubuntu-22.04.3-desktop-amd64.iso starting to look lit af 🥵

May I recommend KDE Neon. Canonical have ruined vanilla Ubuntu with their Snaps agenda.

Microsoft have Microsoft accounts, Canonical have Snaps...

Or debian stable, for all the reliability of ubuntu without the drama

Thanks for the heads up!

if this is just like windows 10, there's a checkbox in the settings app somewhere to disable this permanently

Laughing from a PopOS Virtual Machine (I'm getting my AMD GPU soon, I'll switch over fully then I promise!).

That choice between Remind me in 3 days or Accept shows the compete contempt they have for the user.

Also that idiotic "let's finish setting up your computer", as if Microsoft is your friend helping you out.

Guys you need to stop using this software. Why do you think so many fan boys are yelling about linux all the time? Because it's fantastic these days.

so annoying

Laughing from Linux. Fedora, PCLinuxOS, OpenSUSE- all of Linux is laughing 😃

I understand some people need to use Windows for a variety of reasons, but I switched to Linux a while back and love it so much

What Distro? I use Ubuntu and sometimes tails for personal use. This weekend, I think I'm just going to setup a Windows VM instead and maybe try out Quebes if I can get that to work.

I only NEED it for a couple low resource applications, hell maybe it'll run in wine.

I mostly use OpenSUSE :) Qubes seems really cool

My answer is "no" to each of those

When did they change it from 7 days to 3 days? A couple weeks ago it said 7 days

Also, it doesnt happen every 7 or 3 days. In 2 years i got that screen only twice

So glad i ditched windows a decade ago and never locked back once. What a shit show

Comments like these from Linux users are the equivalent of going on a car maintenance community where someone has said "I'm having a problem with the brake lights on my 2021 Hyundai i20N"

And replying "Hi, I have a Renault Clio and I don't have that problem"

If you have a Renault I don't believe you that you don't have a problem.

Yeah the two car models should be switched, Hyundais are tanks nowadays

Eh, not quite. I'd say a better analogy involves the posts being "I have a (insert car model here) and the brakes are making worrying squealing noises", and "Hi, here's a (link) to a trade-in offer for a model of car that's much less likely to have the brakes fail on you. It won't even cost you anything to swap except 30 minutes of your time."

...and by the way it only runs 80% of the time and there's no way of knowing when 😂

I always wonder what people like you do for CAD.

Try to remember that some of us have to use windows for work. Comments like yours are unhelpful. The world would be entirely made of of people who don't care/complain + people on Linux if it weren't for certain software.

I do a lot of CNC cutting, 3D printing and designing my own parts. U may laugh at it but i am very fine with using FreeCAD and OpenSCAD for that.

Why would I laugh? That's awesome that you have a non-Windows solution, and suggests that on the glorious day when I CAD only for hobbies or self-directed work and not for the man that I will have options.

Until then, Windows it is.