looking forward to the comments

Flickertail@lemmy.world to Lemmy Shitpost@lemmy.world – 1376 points –
312

The author calls it JIF. He intended it as Jif because he has butter fingers and like butter brand JIF.

I'm used to hard G though.

I know he says it’s pronounced “jif”, but I just don’t care. It’s like “gift” without the t

Let's be honest here, English does not have that level of consistency. "Women" is pronounced with an "i" for christ sake

Because the a in woman is pronounced the same way the e in women is pronounced...

Probably that was originally introduced by some medieval swinger society, so they could say that they are faithful to their women and technically not be lying about it. When the church figured out they introduced the o as an i thing.

Because the a in woman is pronounced the same way the e in women is pronounced...

woman = wum-en
women = wim-in

Yeah I'm gonna have to disagree with you there, chief.

i always eas taught the plural to be pronounced as "wi-men" I also cannot remember any english TV show or so to talk about wimin, so where the second ibis explicit as an i and distinguishable from an e

Say the word "though" in your head. Then add a "t" to it. Would you really argue that "though" and "thought" are pronounced the same simply because they're the same spelling save for a final "t"?

The easiest "rule" is that the creator can decide how to pronounce and spell it lol. Taking English rules that don't even apply 100% of the time to its own words and trying to hold made-up words to the same standards just sounds silly to me haha

There are no rules to how new words come into being or how old ones change.

If everyone says a word a certain way with certain meaning, then that's what it is. One person doesn't get to decide.

Yeah, I always read it as "Jif" then came the correctness police of Reddit and I was bullied into "Gif" by guilt.

And now some 8-40 years later, I feel anything but "Gif" is wrong. Help!

Help!

Absolutely not, I don't say this often but those bullies did the right thing.

Can you really just drop a hard G like that though? Thought that was only okay for them to say

He didn't intend shit. He just wanted to watch the world burn!

I'm sorry, but he waited 26 years to tell everyone how it's pronounced... at this point you can go with the majority, or stick with however you want to pronounce it.

He made the format, not English.

Nobody made english, nor is a language static. It is an everchanging result of millions of people using and evolving it.

A language that doesn't change is dead, like latin is. So any rule of how something is supposed to be in a language is subject to time and place, but never absolute.

That's my point. If everyone pronounces a word a certain way, THAT is its correct pronunciation. The first person to say a thing doesn't get to tell everyone else they're wrong.

Everyone started using the word "literally" to mean figuratively, so the official definition changed to mean either or.

Everyone says GIF similar to gift, then that's the proper pronunciation. Creator has no say.

Ya and in English, we pronounce things like giant, giraffe, gin, etc. with a "j" sound.

Find me a closer English word than "Gift" that uses a J sound for the G

English doesn't work that way. Man is the closest work to woman. Doesn't mean you pronounce the "m" "a" "n" in the two words the same way.

English works like all languages. It's organic and full of exceptions. New words pop up, old ones die, pronunciations change and differ between similar words.

Most people chose to say gif like gift. One person doesn't get to change it just because of who they are. Otherwise celebrities can start changing things.

This is all like the Mean Girls scene where the girl was trying to make "fetch" happen and the other girl shot her down.

10 more...

G in gif stands for graphics just like how P in jpeg stands for poto

I feel that if you're going to bother people who pronounce it "Jiff" because Graphics, you have to also say "Sc-uh-bÆ" and "Lass-ear" and "ray-dare."

1 more...

English is phonetically inconsistent, you can find examples to support both ways of pronouncing it.

There are some consistencies in letter patterns, just not in individual letters. For example, no word that starts with go-, ga-, or gu- pronounces the g like a j (except for the archaic gaol, and there's a reason the spelling was changed to jail). It's mainly limited to ge- and gi- words.

Inconsistencies with the other options are probably due either to how the term came into English (English is practically built on loanwords) or some other subsequent pattern of letters I'm too lazy to try to identify.

The only real rule is that words come and go and change organically. People don't just decree that a word needs to change like some king of language.

Hard G and soft G are both acceptable pronunciations, the only way to be wrong in the situation is to insist that your preferred way to pronounce it is the only correct way to pronounce it

Oh, except silent G. Silent G is wrong.

Gigh, as the Scots pronounce it. That’s the only way.

5 more...

In English the correct way to pronounce something is the way that will most reliably communicate to your intended audience without ambiguity or distraction.

Since my intention is usually to convey my superior knowledge of trivia and/or to stir shit up, I pronounce it with a soft g.

So no one should be able to say 'sontimeters'? Cause that's super distracting.

1 more...

I seen a guraffe at the zoo!

I mean it's funny but of course you are objectively wrong.

I hate you feel that way. Can I get you a jift to make you feel better?

It will be a guygantic jift. A large external drive that can hold MANY jiggabytes. Just be careful, it will take a lot of power. 1.21 jiggawatts at least.

But the g in gif stands for "graphical," not "giraffe!" You silly goose

yeah man, just like you go scuba diving oo-nderwater.

it's a dead end. We can't pretend that "g" can't also be pronounced as "j", or that the words making up the acronym matter. It's all preference and since GIF's dad called it "jif", I'm gonna call it "jif". At least that's based on something beyond my own hubris.

This is my thinking - as far as I know he actually called it that as a reference to jif peanut butter.

Saying it with a hard G because ‘graphical’ has a hard G is a reason based on something beyond hubris.

That's easily the worst reasoning for the hard-g considering how we don't pronounce the letters of most acronyms based on the phrases they come from.

Tell that to Qantas, the abomination of all acronyms. WHERE IS THE U????? AAAAAAAAA

The p in jpeg stands for “photographic”.

So… “jay-feg”?

And how do you pronounce giraffe? Giant?

And how do you pronounce gift? Gondola?

See, the one thing I consistently see from the hard g side is a lack of understanding of fundamental phonics. Like, say it how you want, but at least make cogent arguments.

I don't really care for a logical explanation. JIF just sounds fucking stupid and yall know it.

That's how I feel about Giff though -- yuck what an ugly word.

I grew up eating Jif and we loved it

Not to mention it’s literally a “Choosy devs choose GIF” joke, aping “Choosy moms choose Jif”. Soft-g homies for jife.

This comment section is killing me lmao.

You have people saying that language is fluid, and that one person cannot decide which pronunciation is correct. Then, in that same comment, they say that their preferred pronunciation is obviously correct.

Hard g, soft g, you do you. It really doesn't change much.

This is fair. My only issue is with those that go "but the creator says it's pronounced this way! The other way is clearly wrong!" as if what the creator says actually matters. It doesn't. Especially when said creator waits 26 years to announce how he pronounces it.

I pronounce it "zhif" like the sound from zsa zsa Gabor's name. It irritates everyone equally, and gives me a happy.

Also, if you're familiar with the gnome/guh-nome debate on the Linux side of the playground, pronouncing it with a glottal stop at the beginning will give everyone around an immediate stroke.

It's pronounced gif with a hard G.

When I rise to power anyone who disagrees will be immediately found guilty of thought crimes and sentenced to castration, followed by execution, in that order.

I say jif. But when heard someone say jithub instead of github i felt the cringe

Next thing people will be pronouncing SQL as "sequel" and then where will we be?

https://gizmodo.com/the-creator-of-the-gif-says-its-pronounced-jif-he-is-509179289

This is the reason I say Gesus and oh my Jod, now. Can't say everyone appreciates it.

We were literally told it was pronounced "jif" by the creator. Sorry if it hurts your little feelings

Whoever invented all the words in that sentence certainly didn't pronounce them like you do.

I mean, id pronounce them the way the creators said if they were here and specifically told me how to pronounce it 💁🏻

I'm 99% sure the creator was either being sarcastic, or he decided to be a contrarian for the internet clicks. "GIF" is an acronym that stands for "Graphics Interchange Format". It makes very little sense to intentionally pronounce it like a peanut butter brand.

Of all the arguments this one always feels like the absolute weakest. There are so many acronyms that are not pronounced like that it's unreal. Unless you commit to pronouncing it jayfeg for the rest of your life...

actually, gif is an acronym. Specifically not an initialism. That means that it is pronounced as a single word (like "scuba", but unlike "fbi" or "nsa").

The pronunciation of the acronym does not have to conform to the original pronunciation of the letters.

Examples:

the "p" in jpeg stands for the "ph" sound, but we pronounce it as a hard "p".

The "u" in scuba stands for "underwater". We still pronounce it as "scOOba" not "scAAba"

So why is "gif" any different? Its creator chose the soft G for the pronunciation of the acronym (not its expansion), and therefore it is the correct one, simply because there is no rule about how it should be pronounced, so the choice was his. He made it

Contrarian when he said "choosy developers choose gif" (implying the soft g) in 1987? I think that precedes the internet debate a little

Yeah not everyone is from the US and had that brand. The soft g has always made sense as much hard g, especially if you say the words Gin or Gym besides it.

I'm also convinced he did that just to be an annoying contrarian back in 2013 when he announced how he pronounces it.

Dude likely never actually cared.

He waited til 2013 to come out and say that though, when he made it back in 1987. What he wants doesn't matter.

The most popular way to pronounce a word wins; Sorry if it hurts your little feelings.

The British are the creator of the English language but they pronounce nearly every word wrong.

does it really matter? as long as you passed third grade reading comprehension you can use context from the conversation to understand that the person is talking about a moving image instead of a peanut butter brand.

Wilhite says jif, I use jif. He created it, he gets to name it.

If he didn't want people to pronounce it two different ways he should have spelled it differently.

Right? And people get mad at me for saying gur-affe at the zoo. They should have spelt it different if they wanted me to say jir-affe.

Anyway, back to work on my jithub project.

Yea, should have. As another commenter posted, Wilhite should have called it the jraphics interchange format.

He didn't tell anyone it was pronounced jif till a great many years later, after most people were pronouncing it gif.

He lost the right to dictate how everyone else pronounces it for that reason alone. So fuck him. =)

Edit: It was made in 1987 and he waited till 2013. Lmao, he lost that fight long ago.

I understand that some people feel very strongly about pronunciations. So be angry about the correct pronunciation, heck, don't use the correct pronunciation, who cares?

But Wilhite made it, so he gets to name it, regardless of the popularity of later pronunciation debates that largely take place in a forum where you can't actually pronounce the word because we're all typing. It's pretty funny.

Gerrymandering was named after Elbridge Gerry, but his name is pronounced Gary: https://youtu.be/Rp0Qz19nlG4

Popularity of pronunciation does actually matter, regardless of origin.

There are plenty of pronunciations that have changed from the original and are now generally accepted as correct. Here are some examples

https://linguisticus.wordpress.com/2014/12/07/10-words-whose-pronunciation-has-changed-over-time/

Anywho, if you have any recommendations for birthday jifts for kids, lemme know

So be angry about the correct pronunciation

I'm not angry about the correct pronunciation, since I and most people already do pronounce it correctly. As Gif, not Jif.

But Wilhite made it, so he gets to name it

You're right about one thing; he named it. But he doesn't get to dictate how it's pronounced many years later after the majority had already been pronouncing it a certain way. If he wanted it called Jif, then he should have said so from the very beginning. Why wait till 2013? Doesn't that seem odd to you? Dude likely doesn't even care and only declared that in 2013 to start an argument over it.

regardless of the popularity of later pronunciation

I'm sorry but the popularity of how a word is pronounced does in fact actually matter. Plus, the English language is changing all the time and how we pronounce certain words also changes. People will say what feels most natural to them.

that largely take place in a forum where you can’t actually pronounce the word because we’re all typing. It’s pretty funny.

I've used the word Gif in real life, multiple times. Everyone I know pronounces it the same way. 🤷🏻‍♀️

However, you want to pronounce it is fine, but it doesn't make it correct.

I don't think there's a time limit on announcing the way a creator prefers to pronounce the name of his creation.

It became an internet sensation, people asked him about the correct way to pronounce guf, he said how he prefers to pronounce it.

I prefer to pronounce it that way as well, as the original pronunciation by the creator. That's more correct to me, but nobody's forcing you to pronounce it any particular way.

but it doesn’t make it correct

Except it does. This isn't the first time to happen with the English language, and it won't be the last.

I don’t think there’s a time limit on announcing the way a creator prefers to pronounce the name of his creation.

Sure, but the most popular way to pronounce a word wins, and it isn't his way.

people asked him about the correct way to pronounce gif, he specified how he prefers to pronounce it.

Yea I'm aware, I read all about it back in 2013 as well.

That’s more correct to me, but nobody’s forcing you to pronounce it any particular way.

That's nice. Now you know why the majority continue to pronounce it as Gif and not Jif, because it's the most popular and comfortable way to pronounce it. The creators opinion on the matter is inconsequential.

Cheers!

This is interesting, you're kind of proving yourself wrong. If "The most popular way to pronounce a word wins", as you say, then why are you and others still so ardently supportive of one pronunciation(deemed correct by the inventor) or the other(deemed incorrect by the inventor)? Seems like if you had won, there wouldn't be any debate.

It just sounds like you're making the case that coba-bola should be the new name for Coca-Cola. That can definitely be your name for it, and you can try to convince as many people as you want of a name that you prefer. But it doesn't change the original and correct name of that beverage.

Sure, follow the majority. While majority rule often turns out to be incorrect and it doesn't seem like the right way for me to make decisions or judgments, it's certainly your prerogative to pronounced jif the same way many other people do.

For you, a hard g is more popular and comfortable, and that's great. Doesn't make it correct, but it's still great.

I got to be honest with you, but I'm already over this topic, so I'm not even going to read your latest response to me. There really isn't anything new either of us have to share; you pronounce it one way, the majority pronounce it another. The end. Have a good evening/night/morning/etc.

Ah yes, proving you don't care about a subject by continuing to discuss it. Classic.

For you, a hard g is more popular and comfortable, and that's great. Doesn't make it correct, but it's still great.

Actually that's exactly what makes it correct, language is democratic. The more popular way to convey ideas is the correct way, as that is the entire purpose of language (to convey ideas to other individuals) and that's why language changes over time.

The more popular way to convey ideas is the more popular way, not the correct way. 🍆 💦

Most people pronounced it correctly. Hard G was mocked on many tech sites and sites like 4chan.

You mean "jif" was openly mocked, and still is for the most part. Anyone referring to it as Jif is typically viewed as pretentious.

But you are correct about people pronouncing it correctly; as Gif. =)

Soft G was only recently psedo-mocked on tech-stupid subreddits.

Ah, yes "Jrafic interchange format"

Acronyms are not pronounced based on the words that form them.

That's what the inventor chose, so yup. Unfortunately, jif is the correct pronunciation.

My favorite example of this is aluminum. Twice now, I've spoken to British English speakers that insist aluminum is pronounced the British way. And when I point out aluminum is an American invention, they check their phone, roll their eyes, and accept that I can say it that way, but they never will.

And euphonically they're correct, the British pronunciation of aluminum sounds way cooler. I used to use gif until I looked up the usage history specifically for these moments, hahaha. But that's not its name. So I use jif.

There's a concept in linguistics known as descriptivism vs proscriptivism. We either accept that things change meanings and pronunciations regionally and over time, or we try to absolutely state that there's one correct way, and every other way is wrong.

A major issue with the "I'm right you're wrong" approach is the in-group decides who is right and wrong. Regional slang is just wrong, not an equally valid way to speak. Those with formal educations are inherently more correct, and thus their grasp of their native language is more correct. This doesn't really make sense when you think about it, other than to put down groups perceived as lesser.

Additionally, academics can convince themselves of one thing, and totally fail to be relevant to the real world. This leads your average person to become disenfranchised with academia and talk about how academics in their ivory towers have no understanding of how the real world works.

Anyway, that's why I pronounce it joeff.

Very nicely put. I always noticed this phenomenon but ascribed it to people clinging to schemic security blankets, but it's good to know that there's a term that describes the illogical dependence on evolving correctness.

Aluminium sounds cool if you're British and aluminum sounds cool if you're American. How do the other English speaking countries say it?

I've only heard the British and American version myself

This always attracts pedants whining "the creator said to pronounce it like jif!" and it's like, OK, A) That's an appeal to authority, one of the best known logical fallacies B) The creator of Mother's Day spent over 30 years trying to get people to stop celebrating it, but too bad, I'm still gonna wish my Mom a happy Mother's Day, you know?

Appeal to authority is a fallacy if a non-expert in the field is appealed to. However he was the creator, does he not get to name it?

Don't get me wrong it's a hard g for me too but it's not a fallacy tbh.

it's not an appeal to authority, if the choice was his, not ours, to begin with. Tons of acronyms have letters that are pronounced differently. It could be arbitrary because an acronym is its own separate word.

Divers don't dive oonderwater with their scuba gear. And when they take a camera with them, they don't get the pictures saved as jaypheg files.

The choice can be arbitrary. Since it is, the creator gets to decide. Like whoever discovers a new species of creature gets to name it whatever they like.

I won tell you you're wrong just don't say I'm wrong for saying with a soft g.

^^^this. Nobody is "wrong". Say it how you want to. Either way is fine. But get all cocky and tell me I'm wrong for using a soft g and you better be able to defend that assertion, because I've heard every argument for why a hard g is the only correct way to say it and they're all bs.

Gif stands for "Graphics Interchange Format". If it were pronounced "jif", it would be "Jraphics Interchange Format".

It is a Graphics Card, not a Jraphics Card!

Do you pronounce Sim, Vin, and pin like sime, vine, and pine? The I for all of them stand for identification, so you have to stress the i.

What about ICE? The C stands for customs, you must pronounce it like "ike". Or do you pronounce customs as sustoms?

Or do you pronounce customs as sustoms?

nope, but I will now.

Right, like how scuba is pronounced "scuhbba" and but "scooba" because it is "self contained underwater breathing apparatus"

That's the same reason why it's hard for me to watch linux youtubers, guh-nome.

1 more...

Choosy mothers choose Jif.

The modern day shibboleth. Are you someone who reads the fucking manual, or do you believe instagram influencers when they make up rules for pronunciation? Or maybe you're just an old fart who has been using gifs since before people didn't know how to pronounce it, like me.

This is why I pronounce it jif, a gif is about 5 seconds or even up to about a minute in length. (originally)

it takes a short amount of time to watch from start to finish, so its "done in a jiffy." not a giffy.

Lmao I dunno why but I find the bird puppet and jod combo hilarious.

The letter G itself is pronounced with the “j” sound.

I started out pronouncing GIF by saying the letters: “g-I-f.” It eventually shortens into “jif.”

Weird, you could totally spell G as jee. I wonder how many letters you can accurately spell without using the letter itself

This is the best I can do. a,b,see,d,e,eph,jee,h,eye,ghey,caigh,l,m,n,o,p,cue,r,s,t,yew,v,double-you,ekes,whi,z

Graphics Interchange Format. Not Jraphics Interchange Format.

Joint Photographic Experts Group. Not Joint Potographic Experts Group.

National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Not National Ah-ronautics and Space Administration.

Self-Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus. Not Self-Contained Oonderwater Breathing Uh-pparatus.

So you pronounce graphics as jraphics?

that's a single word. When we make acronyms, they're subject to the pronunciation rules of the new word they've become, not the word the letter is sourced from -- This is pretty obvious if you think about it for a minute.

It's NATO but we say atlantic It's SCUBA but we say underwater

I was addressing "The letter G itself is pronounced with the “j” sound." because letters can make more than one sound.

right but their position relative to other letters form syllables and does have (some) rules. GIF GI-F, like Gi-raf-fe

Tbh, I used to pronounce it 'JIF' (because in my native language, 'gi' is always a soft 'g', and I usually speak that), but now that I think about it in English, a hard G makes more sense.

In Romanian I also pronounce gigabytes as jigabytes :)

Just pronounce it the way you pronounce it. I say gif, because in the uk we have a well known brand of lemon juice called jif so it makes sense to not pronounce gif un the same way. Maybe in other countries they dont have jif.

Well known? I wouldn't say that all I've never heard of it before you mentioned it and no one in my area has either and we all say gif with the soft g. It's a cute bottle for it though.

Really? Jif has been a thing since the 1950s. It was marketed to go on pancakes for shrove tuesday and thats always how ive known about it. According to wikipedia it set a uk precident of protecting an unregistered trademark product when a US company made a similarly packaged lemon juice.

They also sell it in green bottles.

Jood. The further we stray from Jod, the jreater this society will jet.

Eh it’s 50-50 where I’m from, even in the tech community. I’ve always use the j sound when I say it, cause I used to think it was short for giraffe

I’m going to avoid all controversy and just make the g silent. It’s ‘if from now on.
If I say it fast enough, people will just assume I use their version.

That's a big if.

if pronounciation == mywayofsayingit:           
    print("yipee")
elif pronounciation == notmywayofsayingit:        
    print("you are objectively wrong")
else:
   print("I have no fucking idea")```

I've been fighting this war for OP's side since 1987. Come at me, I'm on Tijer Guice and shit.

You got any ghin to go with that juice?

I'm on the wajon right now but I had ghoti and shiffs for suffer last nijt.

Do I look like I know what a goddamn gif is?

In English GI is usually pronounced j. But really who cares?

I'm not aware of any word that changes pronunciation of the first letter by adding a letter at the end. The closest thing we have to GIF is "gift", being "gif" with an extra "t" at the end. By that logic GIF should be pronounced like "gift" without the "t".

Yep, that's exactly how it should be pronounced.

I'm still kinda confused with BTRFS pronounced as "butter fs"... I mean, what kind of butter is it 🤔.

There already a word in the English language which is almost the same : gift. So i prononce it like gift without the t.

So do you pronounce the k in know or other silent letters?

Tom and Tomb are pronounved very differently. Know and No very similarly (same?)

The creator gave it a name, and that is how some pronounce it. Others argue it and to me I think that's a waste of time. (As I waste my time commenting this....)