Trump's competitor promises to give part of Ukraine to Russia and block Kyiv's accession to NATO

Flying Squid@lemmy.world to politics @lemmy.world – 903 points – Trump's competitor promises to give part of Ukraine to Russia and block Kyiv's accession to NATO
news.yahoo.com

Sorry for the headline. I don't know why they don't just say it's Vivek Ramaswamy.

To that end, I will accept Russian control of the occupied territories and pledge to block Ukraine’s candidacy for NATO in exchange for Russia exiting its military alliance with China. I will end sanctions and bring Russia back into the world market. In this way, I will elevate Russia as a strategic check on China’s designs in East Asia.

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Never thought I'd see somebody worse than trump so quickly.

he also wants to remove federal regulatory and law enforcement agencies. Including, the IRS. Whose job it is... to you know... pay the government's bills...

They are doing it on purpose. He’s 38 years old, no one is letting him near the presidency. But these over the top statements are intended to make some other candidate look like not the craziest guy in the room.

You know that’s actually not the craziest hypothesis

I was watching a review of the GOP debates by some US political junkies just last week and one of the hosts said that Vivek knows he doesn't have a chance but is using this presidential run to get exposure for his planned foray into right wing talk show host. Something like Tucker or Alex Jones.

Great bang for your buck with free news media advertising by pretending to run for president and saying crazy stuff.

After hearing he wanted to start his own right wing talk show his character and mannerisms made so much more sense.

Apologies for the facebook link (They start talking about him around the 14 min mark and the comment on his talk show plans is at 20 mins)
https://www.facebook.com/abcplanetamerica/videos/3482537835297757

I was watching a review of the GOP debates by some US political junkies just last week and one of the hosts said that Vivek knows he doesn’t have a chance but is using this presidential run to get exposure for his planned foray into right wing talk show host. Something like Tucker or Alex Jones.

or he wants to be VP.

That was the common thought about Trump in 2016...

What would have happened if he lost? Probably exactly that.

Yeah, that was the feeling, that he was gearing up to start his own OANN style network.

Dude is worth like a billion dollars. Why would he want to be talk show host?

Besides that the fact that running for pres, can theoretically be used as a springboard into conservative media, what was their argument?

What reason other than ego is needed by the wealthy? They don't need to consider pros/cons like the rest of us do. You see the kind of following right wing talk show types build? I could very much see someone wanting that just because they can do it.

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Maybe that guy is not the craziest person in the room.

There's a lot of competition. I mean he's meek, so it isn't always clear, but Mike Pence is fucking nuts.

Its basically the exact same method movie theatres use to sell overpriced popcorn...
Not sure what that says about people but probably nothing good.

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More likely he's doing this on purpose to gain notoriety and wealth through media presence

Also he's trying to evade lawsuits

Well yeah, but maybe both? They probably offered him a talking head show already.

*edit aaaaand the guy above says he has his tv show

Considering one of his opponents tried to destroy the happiest place on earth, signed into law a law that allows people to kidnap kids, and worked as a torturer at gitmo, that is saying something

Plus he's brown. With a foreign sounding name.

The chances of Trumpy Republicans abandoning Dear Leader and voting en mass for an Indian looking guy are vanishingly small.

Eh I figure it’s just for attention. Rile up the base to get them out to vote.

Anger is a pretty strong motivator if social media hasn’t shown you that already.

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It's like "conservatives" are actually compelled to make the worst, most unethical choice, every time...

those aren't conservatives. Biden is a conservative. GOP are regressives.

No: conservatism is tribalism. It's always been "well someone's gotta be king." That is the origin of the term, right back to the invention of the modern republic. It's just hierarchy plus excuses.

Conservatism is about conserving the traditional practices and values. If the practice is tribalism, then it may be what is conserved, but it can be something else.

This has never been true. This is plain nonsense.

Like declaring Mitch McConnell and Wolfe Tone must share values because they're both "Republicans." Words mean what they are used to mean. What conservatism means, in modern English, is monarchists denied a monarchy.

You can deny it if you want, but that's what you'll find in dictionaries and encyclopedias, which is what most people consider as the standard definition of a word.

Dictionaries reflect use.

What people mean is always enforcing hierarchy.

That is the only consistent thread, within and between conservative movements worldwide. They want one guy in charge of everything and half the population fighting for scraps. On some level they do not believe society can function any other way.

The people who attempted to overthrow American democracy aren't preserving a damn thing.

Trying to overthrow institutions is typically not conservatism. It seems you confuse extreme right (fascism, authoritarism) and conservatism, maybe because in your country, what used to be a conservatist party became extreme right.

Fascism is conservatism.

Fascism is conservatism, but louder.

In every country, conservatism has that undercurrent, because they're the same idea at different intensity.

Do you think aliens beamed down and took over America's conservative party? No: they voted for fascism. This is what they wanted. They felt The Hierarchy™ was being threatened, because of gays and blacks and them darn transgenders, and they are ready to enact dictatorship to reassert the privilege of the white-nationalist ingroup.

It's always been there - from slavery to Jim Crow to Don't Ask Don't Tell. It's usually happy to use the language of civil discourse, because it's usually in control already. But the moment society shifts toward greater equality, in spite of their political efforts to stratify and separate people, the conservative base will abandon all disguises and demand violence.

People who are right-wing without being conservative are your Mitt Romneys, your Arnolds Schwarzenegger. Y'know. "RINOs." People deeply confused by how the party that used to love them suddenly calls them traitors, because they chose stated principles over kneejerk loyalty. It's almost... it's almost like... it's almost like the principles... didn't matter? Like it's all just excuses for kneejerk loyalty?

Are we going to have to do this every 4 years? Just roll the dice and risk some wholly unqualified asshole, somehow even worse that the former guy, becoming president so he or she can just shit on the people and the planet for the next 4 fucking years?

I am so tired of this bullshit.

Not forever. Now and probably 2028. The people they are appealing to are dying and are rapidly being replaced by the youth. By 2032 they won't be enough to dominate an entire party. They will return to the fringe.

We're at a point where they are so close to codifying their reign into our country's laws that it will no longer matter if they have a majority or not.

They've already done so. Political gerrymandering, legislative subversion of direct democracy, political ejections from state legislatures, etc. The thing that kills me is that the Dems have not come out loudly and uniformly in favor of shit that would make a difference, like rank-choice voting, non-partisan redistricting, etc. Fuckers all around.

Until progressives move en masse to rural areas, this country is fucked. Gerrymandering is largely possible because you only need to go two feet outside of any urban area to be in a blood red sea of prideful ignorance and xenophobia.

Until we become the old assholes for not engaging enough into the ecological transition.

For the forseeable future? yes.

Personally. I plan to go start a lunar colony, then mars, then jupiter. Build up a space civilization of enlightened scientists who.... will tolerate my leadership because "well at least it's not as bad as on earth."

Enough scientists are feral enough to just throw someone out an airlock. That shit would rapidly devolve into some demented form of anarcho-syndacalism.

That shit would rapidly devolve into some demented form of anarcho-syndacalism.

you assume that I'm not some tin pot dictator. I'm far from the last person you want to see in power... but I'm also far from the first. Although... that could make for a good story...

Can I come?

...maybe?

sure. If it turns out you're that annoying person who won't shut up about there kids on the shuttle ride out, I can just use you as a scapegoat. :)

There's a lot worse than Trump. Trump is dumb AF and is easily persuaded. I'm doubting that Trump ever actually came up with an idea of his own. He's a puppet through and through.

he came up with the idea of having a button that summons diet coke,

He also came up with the name "Space Force" and they let him pick a new color scheme for Air Force One.

As absolutely cheesy as it is, I like Space Force and its Starfleet knockoff logo.

It seems that some candidates believe that to win against Trump you have to be dumber than him.

Just look at all his accomplishments like .... .... .... .... and .... .... .... .... and don't forget .... .... .... ....

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Is this guy campaigning for American votes, or a Russian paycheck?

Neither, I think his job is to absorb the negative attention so T looks less unhinged or maybe separate off the crazier magas.

Isn’t it possible that Vivek is just nuts?

Would you put someone “just nuts” in front of a tv camera? But really, I’ve never known the gop to just roll with whomever, their messaging is tightly controlled. If he is up there it’s for a reason.

Would you put someone “just nuts” in front of a tv camera?

Have you seen today’s GOP? Trump, Marj Green, Lauren Boebert, Jim Jordan… the crazy is a feature, not a bug, In Republican politics.

I’ve never known the gop to just roll with whomever, their messaging is tightly controlled.

All the tightly message-controlled Republican candidates in 2016 got thumped by Trump. The Republican party doesn’t even have a platform. They’re literally just rolling with some guy right now.

If he is up there it’s for a reason.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity… or craziness.

Yeah, occam’s says it’s a political ploy. We are literally discussing candidates and how they present themselves. To legitimately bring in mental health seems a stretch.

Would you put someone “just nuts” in front of a tv camera?

That's generally what happens because it draws in ratings.

We've put Trump, and previously 2nd term Reagan in front. So...yes?

At least they don't even try to hide how much they are in bed with Russia anymore.

.... but, but, but they're the "true patriot" party! No one is more American than Republicans! 1!!

/s

how anyone cant seem through this blatent foreign agent acting against your country is beyond me. watching in amazement from down under

Anyone with two functioning brain cells does see it. Unfortunately, there is an entire political party for people who don't.

He's at 5% of the vote in the Republican primary. He's DOA in a general election.

The alternative is that his words are bald faced lies and he believes he's all but winking at the "adults in the room" that "of course he'll never actually do this".

They're both equally horrible, and sadly equally possible.

Russia can't even control it's own military with success, how the fuck are they gonna challenge China and put them on check. Lol this fuckin puppet has the whole arm in him.

US politicians are surprisingly easily bought by foreign adversaries

How the actual fuck are the Republicans not getting hammered in the polls?

Americans have been brainwashed for decades with 'communism bad' propaganda, so it seems mind-boggling that Republicans are so willing to give the former Soviet Union any control over Ukrainian soil. Part of the reason we've been fighting back against Russia's invasion with sanctions and equipment donations has been because they've been NATO's ideological enemy for decades.

I've actually seen a shirt that says "I'd rather be Russian than Democrat."

At this point being a Republican should be considered synonymous to being part of a conspiracy to commit treason and be treated as such.

This is why some kind of civil conflict is likely. Because they are and either we are going to live in their republican hell world or they are going to make the rest of the rest of.us kill them to stop it. It is likely bc they will escalate to killing.

So have I.

I'm not even from the same continent and it hurts my head to think of how a party whose supporters are synonymous with highly patriotic rednecks are willing to continue supporting their team after they've shown a categorical willingness to sell out to the enemy.

Like... I truly think some big corporation has put something in our food or drink that is making us terminally stupid.

Maybe it's all the microplastics and PFAS.

Its the lead in the gasoline. Thats why the boomers are all crazy, they breathed that shit all their lives. Slow lead toxicity causes paranoia, delusions, lowers inhibitions, increases agression.

Overlay light airports (small prop planes still use leaded gasoline) with conservative microclimates and you'll see a correlation.

Well, your second paragraph has a major confounding factor ih that only rich people own their own planes.

Rich people tend not to actually live right next to municipal airports due to the noise as well.

A direct result of IRA/GRU/KozyBear(?), etc., disinfo and influence brainwashing social media campaigns.

Social media is a hellofadrug to the poorly educated.

Because if the other team wants something it must be bad, so they oppose them. No matter how much they cut their nose they will spite their own face.

The Republicans are more or less split on this issue. With the Trumpians being isolationist and not wanting to meddle and the Mitt Romneys wanting to keep the war machine humming along.

Nikki Haley, a Republican Romney-ist candidate at the RNC debates last week criticized Ramaswamy

“You are choosing a murderer over an ally of the U.S"

His response was

“I wish you success on your future career on the boards of Lockheed and Raytheon,”

If you look at certain polls, there are early signs that Americans may be slowly losing fervor for the war and less and less are supporting increasing aid to Ukraine - feeling that the US has done enough.

Trump and his cronies / wannabes are likely betting on that sentiment becoming more widespread. And historically, they are probably right to bet on it. People eventually get war fatigue. However, it could take a very long time before that leads to an actual policy change. Look how long Vietnam or Afghanistan lasted. These things can go on for decades before the government pulls the plug - even through years of public dissatisfaction.

So who knows? The Republicans seem to be having a little war of their own

Dont give this stupid ass a platform. Just dont talk about him. All the negative press is what gave credence to Trump by the anti crowd.

I think it's a little too late for that at this point. And I doubt posting this on Lemmy will get anyone to vote for him.

Of course, because Republicans get money from Russia to betray their country. What's sad is that it doesn't take much.

sounds like a russian asset

Sounds more like a Putin's ass

Same thing

"Motherland is not a presidental ass" - Shevchuk.

It is not. Putin and his gang of militant garage pensiorers are not Russia, despite what their propaganga says.

Who the fuck does he think is. The US has zero rights to do anything like this.

Right or not, there's a good chance Ukraine would not be standing today without US support. Of course other countries are also giving aid but US tops the chart by a large margin. see here $76 billion in aid as of June this year for a country whose GDP in 2020 was about $150 billion. They're running at a massive deficit and barely holding on as it is.

Should the US decide to go to Ukraine and say "hey, we're cutting you off. should probably surrender with these xyz conditions" they would be forced to seriously consider their position.

Imagine being dumb enough to vote for someone like that.

These debates seem more and more like massive focus groups. They get the non-contenders to say preposterous things with two goals: see what sticks and propagate lies.

It's the one part of Idiocracy we're actually performing.

Elections are no longer about who's the best for the job. It's now a popularity contest. Intelligence and capability mean nothing anymore.

And honestly I partially blame Obama for being to relaxed with the memes. Yeah it was funny af but it opened the gates to what we have now.

It's like how satire can quickly become real. So... Thanks Obama..

Elections are no longer about who’s the best for the job.

They were never about that. It was about which person will get my group what I want. The country could do fine for a long time without any political leadership. The mechanisms of government would just continue to operate. Look at the last admin, how many empty posts were there. I bet your trash still got picked up, I bet you still had to pay taxes, etc.

Modernizing engagement by going on talk shows and using social media is smart. The message is what makes the difference. Republicans stopped caring about a message that progressed the country around Bush jr. Ever since then been a decline into tribalism and gaslighting. At least Obama ran on something positive.

I'm not into US politics other than the basics, but let me tell every American that the consequences of something like this happening will be catastrophic, and then you'll "fight" China alone, if not with more opponents.

Trump was already a huge liability to European foreign policy, if it happens again, the EU will dissociate from the US, weaponize and go nuclear. The eastern countries will enter direct conflict with Russia eventually (sooner than later), and the whole continent will get dragged into the war. At the end who ever is left will not support the US, actively be against it, and have nuclear weapons.

In terms of European nuclear weapons, the UK and France already have their own nuclear arsenals. But the broader content of your comment is bang on.

So you're saying I should support Trump to stop the US empire. Interesting proposal.

'Course that assumes US allies aren't already looking for the exists regardless of the next election...

Not the OP, but they never said to support Trump. In fact, they said he was also bad.

Yeah I'm just teasing - ultimately I can't bring myself to vote for someone that'll enable my own internment in a concentration camp. As much as I hate America I also don't really want to die anymore lol

How fucking retarded is this guy?

Russia would make all the promises in the world until the US pulls all its support and resources from Ukraine. Once Ukraine falls, Russia would just tell the US to go fuck themselves and ally with China anyway.

Not that this whack job has a chance of becoming President and actually trying this shit, there's a less than 0% chance of it actually working.

Oh their chances are low, but never zero.

Look at his skin color and name.

There’s a negative chance that republicans turn out for him.

He's seen to have won the primary debate, might even ride as vp on the main ticket

And he's a scary, calculating gop pos

I'm actually more scared of him than of desantis

His chances of becoming President? Yes, those chances are nonzero. Low, but not nonexistent.

But that wasn't what I was saying. The chances of Russia abiding by such an agreement not to align with China are less than 0%. His plan has a less than zero chance of becoming reality even on the off-chance he actually gets a chance to try.

It's called approaching zero in mathematics

Here, I fixed it for you

Putin would make all the promises in the world until the US pulls all its support and resources from Ukraine. Once Ukraine falls, Putin would just tell the US to go fuck themselves and China will annex Russia anyway.

I definitely get the impression he is running for Trump's VP more than he is for president.

You think trump would want a name he won't ever learn to pronounce, much less spell, on his ticket?

Never vote Conservative/Republican/Tory or whatever name these RW crazies choose.

And why exactly are we giving fascists a platform?

Nothing wrong with a platform. It's the lack of trapdoor I object to.

My platform will be one high enough to push Vicki fascists off to their deaths.

Maybe with some spikes at the bottom for good measure. You can't be too careful.

We are doing it right now by upvoting this content. It's the same shit that happened with Trump. People kept him in the news cycle cause he kept doing off the walls shit. We just need to downvote and ignore him. If conservatives see that this guy is effective at triggering liberals they will support him purely on that merit

I think they are worse than fascists

How the fuck have so many people never read a history book?

Guys like Vivek don't care about history because it's not new or exciting.

It is couter to their perogative. Lie, lie, lie, lie and lie some more its not an argument its just full on say anything at whatever opportunity. just say shit that doesn't even make sense and defend it. Its not stupidity, its a strategy. He knows the base just go with anything violent, racist, bigot related, you know all the most vile parts that humanity has to offer.

Vivek Ramaswamy is one of the more unappealing politicians I’ve seen in quite some time… which means that he will likely rocket up the GOP polls

You'd probably be right about that... if he were white.

Agree 100%. There’s no way this guy is getting the conservative vote - based purely on his skin tone.

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EU sanctioning the fuck out of the US in 3, 2, 1...

This idiot watched Trump sucking off the Russians and thought that was why he was popular, so he's gonna go ahead and double down.

How the Republicans of all people have managed to turn into the PRO RUSSIA party I can hardly fathom. For all their rampant flag waving and mindlessly spouted "Support our troops" drivel, they'd have been the last ones to kowtow to Moscow. In the end of course, I Do understand. It's their fanatical worship of Trump, the idea that anyone who doesn't adore Inmate Number P01135809 is just a traitor, and He of course was willing to give the Russians anything and everything they wanted to keep that kompromat from being released. So, Republicans have just internalized the idea that Russians Good, just because Inmate P01135809 said so.

And of course because Democrats have been supporting anti-Russian policies. Republicans would rather be traitors than collaborate with the Democrats.

I think it's because the current incarnation of Russia is their dream form of governance: a veneer of democracy, over an Oligarchy, where the ones with the most money end up making all the rules. (It's critical to note that most of these Republicans think of themselves as Oligarchs-in-training.) And a populace which is used to all that, and won't question things, at least openly. A place where you can make your opposition just go away by saying they are corrupt, and locking them up in Siberia.

And a place where it you want to whip up some nationalist unity, you just start a war for no good reason. (Well, at least on this point, Dubya gave the Republicans a head start).

Democrats could be stumping for eating chocolate and every Republican in the country would give it up. But still secretly eat it.

This is what a Russian Muppet looks like… naturally he’s a Republican.

If he thinks that Russia will break their military cooperation with China, he is even more stupider that Trump and Biden combined..

Why is he backing a losing side?

It$ hard to really $ay why anyone doe$ anything, maybe he really think$ that $tability in europe can only be reached by conceding territory to the mo$t agr$$sive and dangerou$ belligrrant. Who know$.

“ in exchange for Russia exiting its military alliance with China”

OMG, so funny. That is even more unlikely than this tool becoming POTUS and I am not sure that would happen even if the rest of them were tragically killed.

I see Vivek Ramaswamy is gunning to be the Neville Chamberlain of the 21st century. Giving Putin what he wants is like trying to appease Hitler. Putin's expressed ideology is for Russia to conquerer Europe. He is not going to stop with the Donbas region or Ukraine. The best thing for everyone, including the Russian people, is for Russia as we know it to collapse into smaller countries.

This video by Kraut does a good job explaining Putin's ideology.

Not to mention by supporting Ukraine, the US is sending a clear message to China that they will be met with force if they try invade Taiwan. It doesn't benefit anyone other than Russia and China to work with them and give them what they want. Dictatorships are always going to be incentivized to backstab democracies. Democracies are going to champion human rights, where as other dictatorships will look the other way. So no matter how hard you try to separate Russia and China they are always going to be incentivized to work with each other.

And the little cooperation between China and Russia is not worth backstabbing Ukraine over.

Putin is not Hitler, for many reasons, but chief among them is his incompetency. Hitler didn't get bogged down in czechoslovakia for a year. Putin has almost no chance of conquering the whole of Ukraine, much less the entirety of Europe.

Yeah no Putin rushed that one and has been interfering in his generals' decisions from day one. There's tons of incompetence in the Russian army but Bakhmut levels of strategic self-owns, no, we can safely assume that that kind of stuff was a political decision.

Hahahaha, he'll get Russia to sever military alliances with China eh? I'm sure they'll kindly pack up their things and leave Ukraine alone, just like they did in 1991. Putin has showed his hand. He's not to be trusted with any diplomatic issue. He will not abide by American rhetoric. Negotiating terms where Ukraine is blocked from joining NATO simply signals to the West's enemies that if you're able to make inroads, we'll make concessions. It's ultimately as weak piss of a foreign policy as it gets.

I'd rather kick America out of it's own NATO before blocking Ukraine, jesus crust.

Given how many jokes I've made about Trump ordering Ukraine to "just surrender" in a second term, I'm not mad, I'm just sad that my low opinion of the world is justified and accurate.

I don't get why he thinks Russia would end a military alliance after being given everything they want without having to end that alliance. And what makes him think other nations won't still back Ukraine? We would just be putting ourselves on the wrong side of history and on the wrong side of the war.

History is for nerds. Paying attention to how appeasement turned out for the world back in the mid-20th century won't get you airtime.

And what makes him think other nations won’t still back Ukraine?

That's the weirdest thing about this. His whole plan assumes Ukraine will just say "Ok Vivek, we'll just stop fighting because you want to be friends with Putin!"

Only thing he'd accomplish is making the war drag on for years longer. This guy is so gullible he believes the Russian propaganda that tells him that Ukraine is a US puppet.

Its weird that that is not 0% chance.

I'm so glad he feels confident enough to do such a thing.

You would have thought that not been Ukrainian would make him think he has no right to make that decision, fortunately not.

Yeah. The USA is the one supplying the most monetary help, but I doubt Ukraine would just give up, if that help stopped.

US is supplying the most military hardware, the EU leads when it comes to finances.

He is the ultimate grifter...I wonder what kind of donation that got from the NRA.

Fuck you Vivek, you fawning douchebag

Is there no remotely sane candidate in the Republican party? It's not even a matter of supporting bad policies anymore, they have literally lost their minds and betray the very values this country is supposed to stand for

"in exchange for Russia exiting its military alliance with China."

"...You're questioning if is Russia is good on its commitments? Who had every heard of Russia not following through with its promises? What? Budapest memo-what?" -Ramaswamy probably

This guy has no idea what geopolitics is and how the East is playing it.

Yes he does. He just does not care. This guy is evil, not stupid. He has said many, many smart things before. He can sound pretty compelling saying super crazy shit now. Not an idiot.

He listened to all the people that said “can you imagine what a smarter Donald Trump would be like” and though “ya, let’s go for it”.

The only saving grace is that he is also at about zero percent chance of becoming President.

"Not stupid"

After seeing what the Republican party has done over the past 30 years I'd have to disagree with you there.

It will never not blow my mind that people alive during the cold War and all that drama are like yeah... liberal Americans are the enemy! We have more on common with Russia so we feel comfortable backing them in anything.

He can't realistically win potus, so he's only running to angle for {ed: Worst. Ever.} Sec of State position in the next GQP admin

Oh god, you're probably correct. I hope something unfortunate happens to him to spare the country from years more of this dude's fucking bullshit.

This fairy tale world where this dude thinks he can get “Russia to exit its military alliance with China”, this seems temping. But if this chucklefuck thinks that’s going to happen, then I’ve got 5 bridges to sell him.

Hes going to need them to cross that five-head of his.

He's the Wish version of Megamind.

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The guy is brown and his name isn't something they can pronounce. There is not a snowballs chance in hell that this guy would even be a possible front runner for a spot to even say he is competing with Trump for the nomination.

Hillary Clinton has better odds of winning the Republican nomination.

Nikki Haley is Nimarata Randhawa and plenty of Republicans support her...

And there is a reason she goes by Nikki Haley.

I can't prove that you're wrong, but my impression is that (1) many immigrants go by American nicknames simply because they're tired of explaining how to pronounce their name and (2) Republicans appear to start out more distrustful of outsiders (although some of that may simply be due to a greater willingness to express politically incorrect opinions) but they can grow to trust and support individuals - they do "have black friends," so to speak.

IMO Vivek's ethnic background is a disadvantage but not a disqualifier. I guess we'll see how he does in the primaries. (I wouldn't bet on him, mostly because I would bet on Trump.)

Oh I'm sure China would be absolutely thrilled if the US was soft on Russia.

Oh yes we'll also colonize Saturn and end world poverty. College degrees for all! Easy to blather a bunch of nonsense goals with no regard for the attainability or necessity.

What a piece of shit! Why? What’s the GOP line here? It’s not gay if you suck putins dick?

You know maybe trump isn't that bad

Trump would've let the special military operation happen and likely vetoed any retaliatory action. Kyiv would have fallen overnight, if not within weeks. You're forgetting that Trump got into power largely due to Putin's electoral interference, and that he's the closest that America had come to allying with Russia since the Second World War.

Don't forget that he was literally impeached for trying to blackmail Zelenskyy by denying him military support if he didn't give Trump dirt on Hunter Biden. Trump is no friend of Ukraine.

My issue with that theory is if it's true, why didn't Putin invade while Trump was in power? I think Putin rightly considers Trump a loose cannon who may well have escalated in response. While Biden is predictably afraid of escalation and has been eager to pump the brakes on military aid whenever possible, against congress's wishes.

they were not trying to place nuclear bunkers in ukraine back then.

This guy is lining up to be Trump's VP.

He's doing his job then. We all know he's too brown to be the GOP nomination. So my wager is on him making Trump seem slightly less extreme without ever changing tact himself, since he doesn't know how to.

I swear this guy is such a clown... how can people unironically like him or say he was the winner of the debate?

Well, easy to say the debate was great for him. Prior to it, most people didn't know he existed. Now some people are saying "He's like a younger trump" and that his biggest problem is that the people who would vote for him will just vote for Trump.

Vivek Ramaswamy is a fucking ghoul, and so is Putin, but if — like some commenters in this thread — you are concerned about WW3, then Vivek's position here is less bellicose than the official American "Push NATO right up to Russia's border, plant missiles five minutes from Moscow, deny Russian access to the warm water port at Crimea" position. It is also the position most likely to end a war that has already killed half a million people. What Vivek offers is what Putin started the war to obtain.

There is some evidence — various polls, and also the fact that a civil war raged for eight years — indicating that a sizable portion of the population in the contested regions of eastern Ukraine is either ambivalent about or would prefer Russian rather than Kyiv rule. Granting them this would probably not be worse than killing another half million people in Ukraine.

So why not have a vote in the matter without the goons with guns standing over.

Russia last all credibility when they invaded. That's their problem.

There were multiple polls before the invasion, and some probably contradict each other, but before we go off on an internet argument digging through polls, my main point is that the war is killing hundreds of thousands of people, half a million already, and nudging us toward world war 3, and since Putin probably won't back down for security and economic reasons, it's either compromise or drag this out to the last Ukrainian. At minimum, if you want to end this shit, a binding guarantee to not join NATO should be on the table, and Russian access to Sevastopol. I would wager that the main reason Russia wants to retain some of eastern Ukraine is to maintain a border buffer against NATO.

*For an example, this 2015 survey polled Ukrainians on a range of topics and broke down the results by region. On page 18, residents of Donbas are asked the question, "How do you evaluate your attitude toward each of the following countries?" For Russia, the breakdown is as follows: 5% very warm, 39% warm, 42% neutral, 5% cold, 1% very cold, 9% difficult to answer or no answer.

**To clarify, the survey does not show the Donbas wanting to join Russia (see page 22: 75% want to remain part of Ukraine in some form) or welcoming an invasion (page 27, surprise most people do not want war), but it does show that a plurality preferred economic ties to Russia (33%) over economic ties to the EU (21%) (page 41), and that only 16% in the Donbas wanted to join NATO (page 43).

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Wow... what a traitor. I guess we better get into World War 3 instead. That'll show those bastards!

He doesn't have the authority, so it's just bluster.

100% Ukraine is going to give up lands, they can not fight off Russia, and they have lost a ton of equipment and many of their soldiers are dead. Even the west who is now sick of giving Ukraine aid, are not pleased with how Ukraine is unable to make any dent in the war, furthermore, Ukraine has been told by the West to stop attacks inside Russia or risk losing aid, in preparation to forcing Ukraine to accept defeat, it's coming, bank on it.

Hello Putin shill

you have the brain capacity of a child.

Ooohh, burn!

Got any point to make for yourself instead of parroting Putin points?

The biggest thing holding back Ukraine is the ack of air superiority. If they can gain that, they will gain ground fast

Never going to happen, the west purposely is delaying F-16 hand over, which won't come before end of 2024.

False. The pilots are in training, and the transfer has been completely approved. There is no more delaying.