We really need to start eating the parasites that talk like this. This fucking shit stain has never worked a day in it's pathetic little life.
Ramsey was born in Antioch, Tennessee, to real estate developers.[2] He attended Antioch High School where he played ice hockey. At age 18, Ramsey took the real estate exam[2] and began selling property, working through college at The University of Tennessee, Knoxville,[2] where he earned a Bachelor of Science degree in Finance and Real Estate.[3]
Daddy gave him all he's got and yet it's my fault my dad was a poor artist and died young?
eat my whole asshole Ramsey
It's always people born to wealth who feel the most entitlement.
Itās because they are taught about personal property and ownership in a very different way.
Dude went bankrupt in the 80s.
Do you have any recipes for cooking human flesh, since you espouse cannibalism? I'm just wondering if you're prepared to practice what you preach.
I don't think you need specific recipes for cooking human flesh, I would think any recipe used for pork would be pretty 1 to 1
What part of that says "got his money from his dad"?
It says he sold property to put himself through school at age 18.
He's born to real estate developers, probably helps tremendously with connections
Yeah people will hear stories like that and think go-getter, and its like even if it wasnāt a tee ball job, tell an 18 year old off the street to reproduce that outcome with no connections or cash, its not happening.
My dude what 18 year old do you know that owns property?
He was a real estate agent. It doesn't say he owned property at 18.
You know real estate agents don't own the properties they sell, right?
However, the upheaval millennials and Gen Z have faced may soon be behind them. The former is expected to become the ārichest generation in history,ā courtesy of a $90 trillion great wealth transfer in the coming decades, while younger consumers generally say theyāre feeling more optimistic about their financial futures.
Don't worry, eventually your parents will die and you'll be able to live in the whole house not just the basement.
$90 trillion great wealth transfer. As if that money is going into the hands of people who arenāt already obscenely wealthy to begin with.
Also the the boomers with any wealth are going to live a lot longer. My boomer momās mom was 91 when she died, the only reason my mom is solvent is because she inherited and sold grandmaās house.
If my mom lives that long Iāll be in my mid 60s and my brother in his 50s. Iām a late Gen Xer btw.
So the timeline is at least 15-20 more years.
Subscription services will be like "sorry it's $1k per extra seat now"
This is what neoliberalism and capitalism wants the younger generations to believe, but a large percentage of that wealth will be stolen via health care and similar predatory, exploitative systems.
And do you think the inflation caused solely by greed might be related? They need to capture that money now before it is inherited.
Reverse mortgage enters the chat.
This. My grandparents were well off and set up a trust for me and my brother.
It wasnāt much. And then all of it went into her nursing home when the dementia got so bad we couldnāt care for her ourselves anymore.
And the rich got richer
Whatever isn't sold off for long term care, which won't be much.
... $90 trillion great wealth transfer in the coming decades ...
This only counts if your deceased parents have any wealth to transfer.
Trickle down economics in a trenchcoat.
Don't worry, eventually your parents will die and you'll be able to live in the whole house not just the basement.
Only if you donāt have to sell the house beforehand in order to be able to afford a nursing home for your parents
Dave Ramsey sounds like someone who has forgotten what happened last time.
They haven't forgotten. They bought the cops. Now what do we do?
ACAB.
Pitchforks to dinner forks.
They cannot arrest or kill the entire working class, pitchforks or not. I mean, they could, but then who would work for them and make them richer? They need us and it's going to be a very painful reminder when we remind them, one way or another.
Slavery is allowed if youāre in prison, so that takes care of the work part.
grasshoppers vs antz
We should have reminded them decades ago. Like in the 90ās when they started shipping jobs overseas for cheaper labor.
Now? Good luck convincing people to bother instead of just doing whatever the mainstream media tells them to do.
This guy was born into a wealthy family and acts like he earned it all
They always do. Its frustrating and disgusting.
Big Trump energy.
I've been sick of him from the first moment I met an adherent. I mentioned how I like to avoid debt and pay it down early and the person said "Oh, so you listen to Dave Ramsey?" I confessed to having no idea who they were talking about, and they swore that I was being obtuse because I couldn't have come up with "interest sucks" on my own.
Those who are undereducated often canāt imagine that people can be truly brilliant.
Interest bad is far below brilliant
I guess we could be grading on a curve of people that view Ramsey as brilliant...
George Washington bemoaned debt
No just interest, compound interest is bad
Dave Ramsey can fuck himself. This is the same idiot that says you should give 10% of your money as tithe so that an invisible sky daddy doesn't send you to hell to burn for eternity.
While sitting on a golden throne he made from daddies money telling other's how to live.
Daddies money? He was literally bankrupt when he had his daughter and rebuilt everything.
Despite being born into money, he managed to take on so much risk that it society had to bail him out. Even so, I'm certain that his net worth after bankruptcy was significantly higher than the vast majority in gen-z.
Defending billionaires online is PATHETIC.
Do you know what bankruptcy does?
It doesnāt mean you have nothing. Itās designed to stop your creditors and protect what you have.
He didnāt start from scratch my dude.
Life experiences can still teach you something even if you don't start in the same place. If he has good advice it's good advice at the end of the day.
Add in another for trickle down, and the various forms the owner class use to divide us
Thanks, I was gonna post this if someone hadn't.
We should teach the millionaires to fear again
I've always made good money, and got some good advice when I started my first job to just always put aside 10% for saving, and put that into ira/401k. I'm in my 40s now and a millionaire. I still have to work and will until retirement age.
I know I'm lucky, but you're really barking up the wrong tree if you think simply having a million dollars makes you bad person. I'm just a saver.
These days, I don't bat an eye at a seven figure or even low-mid eight figure millionaire. That level of wealth is attainable through individual means (hard work, saving, diligent investing, etc) and probably a significant amount of luck. It's once you start getting into the mid to upper 8-9 figure and then billionaires where there is no way they achieved that wealth without exploitation and all the other accompanying things these people perpetrate.
Low 8 figures is my in laws. They are both doctors and busted their butts throughout their career. They could have done better had they invested better, but they still have obviously done well for themselves.
Ok then let's teach the billionaires to fear again.
Too high. How about 100 million?
Done
Or you can start saving and investing when you're young and be a millionaire when you retire. Compound interest is magic.
Saving what, exactly? The problem is that people arent able to maintain a standard of living, meaning they can't certainly can't save.
Or in simpler terms, things are becoming so expensive that they are forced to decrease their standard of living to meet their needs. This isn't a personal finance issue.
Why don't you buy 4 houses, you rent 3 and live in one. You can ask your parents for the capital of you don't have it
^^^/s
Question is, was that standard of living with in their means in the first place, Americans are in 1 trillion of credit card debt. That's insane to me, we have a spending problem that is now seemingly worse because everything is expensive.
When you're already more or less locked in to a lifestyle and then hit with record inflation, not everyone is going to just cancel their lives and live like a pauper, especially families. Yes many people are grossly irresponsible with credit card debt, but that isn't the story for everyone. You'd have to be living under a rock to not see how insanely expensive life has become in the last few years. Sure people can sell off all of their possessions and move to Nebraska, but that isn't a reasonable solution.
I hear yah, personally I cancelled a bunch of streaming apps, making all my food and coffee at home and been hitting thrift stores and estate sales for things I need. I know shits expensive, my car is a 2006 and it eats gas but I'm not falling for the new car trap.
People have done all of what you have mentioned here but still living paycheck to paycheck. They did it because they already know they can't afford stuff. Now they're starting to stop eating healthy too. You going to claim vegetables are luxury? Fuck you if you do.
Grow micro greens and tomatoes indoors. Lights are cheap af.
Do you know what the majority of debt in this country is? Health care.
Get sick, go broke.
Theyāre using credit cards to buy essentials like groceries and gas.
We donāt have a spending problem, we have a wage problem. And people like you blaming the poor for the circumstances that people like you put them in is gross
That sounds like we have a Health cost problem. No reason for some meds to cost so much. We also get meds advertised to us, so they spend some money on that instead of lowering prices. Our health system I agree sucks.
No thanks? Why would i be miserable right now and happy long after I'm no longer able to enjoy life? Unless you think we're on the cusp of curing aging or something.
This is a really cute concept. Many people don't have an extra $5 a day. Do you know what you get when you invest $5 a day over 12 years at a 4% interest rate? It's not a million dollars.
About 28000 dollars. Even with a super safe investment that gives you 4%. S&p is like 10% a year. In that case (assuming you lose 1% to the market) you would have 36k.
If you do that over 40 years (25 to 65) you have 640k.
4%?!? where are you getting 4%?? Last time I looked at CD rates it was like 1.2%
You need to look again. I have a 5% standard savings account right now. Fed rates are very high right now.
yeah the rates are way better than last time i looked! gonna have to put some savings into good use.
...what's the point of becoming a millionaire when I no longer have the same energy as I used to when I could still enjoy things?
Because you're still going to want to live and do shit when you're older. And you'll pay for it in the future with what you do now.
Unless I die tomorrow and never get to use all the money I suffered for now to use later.
Donāt get me wrong, itās a balancing act. But thereās no promise Iāll even make it to retirement. So Iām going to enjoy my now, just in case.
I thought like that in my 20s.
What was your first job and how old were you?
Who paid for your education and how?
What was your lowest salary?
Construction at 14 for a summer.
My parents who moved here in the 60s with practically nothing and worked their asses off in factories and cleaning houses. I didn't go to college.
Minimum wage.
So is compounding health problems. Fuck retirement. Live now. Eat billionaires.
And then not be eligible for government insurance because you have too much money and go bankrupt paying for medication. Plus the million other little cuts and stabs you will take. Your kids had to go to higher ed and if you don't help them they can't. Someone tripped on your property and sued you.
What I have learned is this: invest in what can't be taken away by a financial group or their judicial lackseys. Your skillset, property that has complex financial structure, your tools, your family, your reputation.
Your bank doesn't want you custom laptop but you with your knowledge have income with it. Your insurance company doesn't want your house that has crazy agreements about who owns it that would take a generation of lawyers to sort out. Your government doesn't want your brother-in-law who lives abroad and runs a farm you helped buy. The guy suing you doesn't want your professional network. What those parasites want is money without effort. So only own the stuff that requires effort to use.
It's not that they don't work, it's that their employers (boomers own the companies) don't want to pay them
He knows this. I used to listen to his show. And in all my time listening to him, he never took on a caller who was making nine bucks an hour and struggling to make ends meet. His most frequent type of caller is a straight late twenties couple who make $140k a year, who owe maybe $25k in credit cards, and whose obvious answer to fixing the problem is to sell the thousand dollar car payment for something more basic and eat out less often. Because he knows if minimum wage workers get past the screeners, there's nothing he can do to help. That's a systemic problem and he knows he's part of it. What's he gonna tell them? Go get a better job? Cool. If everyone does that, there won't be any of those jobs for 90% of them, one, and two, there won't be anyone working those important low wage jobs. Someone's gotta flip the burgers. Someone's gotta stock the shelves. The problem is systemic. And the answer is fuck the rich.
I literally just watched yesterday a 28 year old lady with over 100k in student debt on minimum wage.
It's not that I've been dealt a losing hand, it's that my generation wasn't dealt a hand at all, and were cussed out when we asked why the dealer left us out.... Then they told us we lost the game because we were too lazy to buy our own cards to use, even though that's not how Poker works.
I lost all respect for Ramsey when I came across a video of him saying he wouldn't take a 0% interest million dollar loan. His opinions on finance are outrageous and dumb.
His whole thing is being anti-debt which is probably good for some people, but some people already have no debt
Yea. I have managed to never carried debt. Without that, whatās this guy got to offer me? In fact, the only thing the guy has to offer is the simplest financial advice there is: spend less than you earn.
But then a poor person comes along and says they canāt and his only advice is āearn more moneyā. Because itās that easy, obv.
The guy is an out of touch chode who had some privileged upper middle class kid think he was the financial messiah once for saying āuse a budgetā and let that go to his head.
For some people "use a budget" is revolutionary advice. Most people don't literally track every dollar they spend, although apps and software make it much easier now.
Some middle class and wealthy people make a decent amount of money but spend it all on leasing a few luxury cars and going on vacation. These are the people who "budgeting" works for.
They literally cut back on eating out and save $500 - $1000 per month ("cut back", not eliminate). They end a lease and save an extra $1000. They use this money to pay off their $50K credit card debt and it's eliminated in less than 3 years.
Exactly. Thatās who his advice is for, but he markets himself as a guru to the poor and they gobble his bullshit right up and spend all their money on his financial peace university thatās just a book full of anecdotes of wealthy people learning how to do what the poors have been forced to do all along.
True. Most poor people are pretty good at managing money because they are forced to. They just don't have any money to manage.
Thing is, this advice is useless to anyone who straight up has no money and the rich legitimately don't understand that situation.
Debt comes with interest. If you don't have to pay interest it's free money.
It's only free money if you invest it in a way that allows you to make a return on it. If someone hands you an interest free loan and you blow it on an expensive car that actually goes down in value the second you take it off the lot, you're losing money. That said in the right circumstances debt is an extremely useful tool. But he's probably mostly talking to the people who don't know how to use it that way.
An interest free loan is something you take 10 out of 10 timesā¦the reason is simple: even in the worst of times you can accrue more than 0% interest on money.
Right now, with current interest rates, if you could get an interest-free million dollar loan, youād essentially be able to make $50k a year out of it by just sticking it in an online savings account.
Even if they demanded that you pay all of the money back in a month, you should still take it, because youād be netted the interest you could get out of the money in the month, and then return all of the money back to them.
Anyone saying they wouldnāt take an interest-free million dollar loan is a complete moron.
I'm well aware that that's true if you're financially responsible and educated in investment. I don't think his advice is aimed at that group of people. Also in the real world people don't hand out 0% interest loans without strings very often?
Iām well aware that thatās true if youāre financially responsible and educated in investment.
Educated in investment? Even a regular savings account will net you some return on a million dollars.
You can also be financially irresponsible in every other aspect of your life and just plunk the million dollars into a savings account and take the free money.
Also in the real world people donāt hand out 0% interest loans without strings very often?
Of course, it's a hypothetical which is why it makes his answer as stupid as it is. He's too absolute on debt and that makes him a clown, and that's coming from someone like myself who paid off a mortgage with a ~4% interest rate in 3 years.
They used to for cars, but obviously that's a depreciating asset or w/e so it's not really the same thing.
Yeah that's the definition of strings attached. If they're giving you a 0% interest loan on a car, you can assume the profit margin on the sale is large enough to cover the interest, especially since car companies often own the finance companies.
It's not free money. It's still debt, as you have to pay it back.
Then put it in TBills or a high yield savings account. The money will still be there when you need to pay and you'll have made interest on it the whole time.
Not having debt would have been nice, but itās kind hard when your parents shove you out the door at 17. I worked full time through college, shared an apartment with three other people, and ended up 50k to get a degree in a field that I can no longer work in (my state is currently covering up the murder of a transgender child, and as a fat hairy bearded man, I am legally required to piss in a stall next to teenage girls).
His advice works if youāre an upper middle class person with a supportive family. You canāt budget if you are making 12k a year.
my state is currently covering up the murder of a transgender child
What?
Nex.
Ah. It's sad I had to ask for clarification as to which one.
I'm pragmatic to a fault and so his advice often makes me cringe.
However, I still have respect for him.
First and foremost because he was the gateway for my wife actually caring about our finances. And so her realizing that we can make a lot more money in the long run by not recklessly spending it now I have to credit him for...I couldn't get through to her, but now she comes to me for most all financial advice.
However it's also because for a lot of people their relationship with money is more emotional than it is rational, and for them he is very good. Watching my wife go through the transformation gave me an appreciation for what he preaches, even if it isn't logically the best path, it's often the best path for a lot of people.
What is so bad about living with your parents? That's still the norm in many parts of the world. For some reason western countries, and especially America, have exaggerated the benefits of being financially independent, as if shared resources were some kind of failure.
I beg to differ. The only people who lose when we share resources are the capitalists.
I've got a few friends in their thirties who live with their parents and the whole family is very happy. And although my kids are only six and three, I can't imagine any reason why I wouldn't want them to continue living in my house for as long as they needed support.
We all need support. It's not a shame. It's an asset more valuable than property, imho.
you might be gay and have to move out, assuming they didn't throw you out as a teen. even if you're straight your parent's won't respect you as an adult if you live with them and impose restrictions on your lifestyle. you also have to appease them in whatever crazy shit they force on you because they can kuck you out if you refuse
Did that happen to you?
I'm a gen x, and I don't want to work. I mean really, who does? Who would rather work than spend time with their family and/or see the world? I work because I have to to survive.
People want to work if:
it is meaningful to them
their work is a mean to do something meaningful to them.
If you work to survive, there is no prospect to advance or do something fun/meaningful, then why the fuck should people want to work?
And Ramsey is kidding himself, is work is not that hard. So it's fucking rich coming from someone that peddle his shit to make money.
"want to work"? that's only for actual humans, you are a parasite leaching off the work of the people who are actually productive, the shareholders, and if they all go hide in a secret valley gated community the world will collapse as they invent a perpetomobile outside the "laws of nature" imposed by the government
(everything up to the perpetomobile is actually held beliefs among these people, just the laws of nature being enforced by the government is a bit of a gag)
I love working! ... when I'm self-employed. Knowing that what I'm doing is likely to actually make a difference for someone other than a rich fuck is incredibly motivating.
Finance gurugrifter Dave Ramsey
FTFT.
I like to imagine this means "fixed that for thee."
Dave "I fire people that have sex out of wedlock" Ramsey? Who cares what that religious nut have to say?
Dave Ramsey is one of those guys where you have to eat the fish but leave the bones.
A lot of what he teaches is really great, practical advice--aimed at people who really might not understand financial basics.
Things like budgeting, saving, investing in mutual funds, and avoiding debt like the plague. That's all fantastic financial advice. The whole "borrower is servant to the lender stuff pulled right out of the Bible is stuff that most on here would agree with. Debt is a way to force people into financial serfdom.
But occasionally he says stupid shit like this. And maybe it's taken out of context, but probably not. He always has advocated busting your ass to get out of debt and start saving. He calls it getting "gazelle" intense about it(basically saying banks, lenders, etc are lions trying to kill you). Again, not too far off from whatost people agree with.
So, he's advocated getting multiple jobs if you need to until you can right your financial ship.
But he's also an proponent of advocating for yourself and getting better jobs and ditching the second job as soon as you can. So I dunno. He says dumb stuff but he's also pretty practical overall. Like I said eat the fish, leave the bones.
His "no debt" spiel is a decade out of date. The red queen paradox applies here, most people need to run as fast as they can, just to stay in the same place.
The average house here has gone up in value 55 euros a day for the past decade, and rent has risen faster Unless you're already doing very well, you cant budget your way into buying a house anymore. Saving 55 euros a day for a decade means you're standing still, you need to MORE to actually get closer to buying property.
Again, that's 55 bucks a DAY, or 1650 a month, just keep pace. Dave Ramsey can fuck right off when it takes 32 hours at minimum just to stay as poor as you always were.
No debt has worked for me. I don't care for him and any of his advice, but getting out of debt has been great for me.
Going by your comments, you're hardly a struggling gen-z though. When you or I run in place, we're already miles ahead of those who can barely get off the starting line.
But you were in debt, and the example given of a home mortgage is pretty definitively a debt worth taking on, as rent and increasing housing costs will easily outpace accrued interest.
You should pay that debt down quickly, unless you're mortgage rate is crazy good and investment returns are crazy high, but that's not usual. But taking on a mortgage is about the only way you can get into owning a house except for being a trust fund baby.
Some people may have to suck it up and tolerate a car payment, of they can't afford a 6 to 9 thousands dollar car, because they need transportation to get to work, and any car cheaper than that will be very expensive to repair.
Carrying over any balance on a credit card? Yeah, that's always a terrible idea.
His no debt spiel is really only get a mortgage once you have no other debt.
The second job thing is interesting, it's like he doesn't understand that the economic situation of a society as a whole (generally a country) dictates what % of people can afford to have nice things.
As a result of that, if your society is in a bad economic situation it may very well be the case that even if everybody was working the same number of multiple jobs, advocating for themselves, and busting their butts, most of those people are still going to be in a shitty situation due to things entirely out of their control. Furthermore, the ones that got out of the shitty situation, even though they're doing all of the same things, only did it due to dumb luck / being in the right place at the right time.
"fiance guru" isn't a real job. Fight me.
They're a joke, they literally produce nothing. O I made one number bigger. Congrats you're a counter.
Finance guru vs. Jiu-jitsu guru...
You aren't working your way into home ownership in many cases unless you also work your way into a different locality as well.
I bought my small 2x2 condo for around 500k in 2020, it's now worth ~800k. Housing inflation is out of fucking control.
I'm moving into a house (renting) soon, and the owner bought it 8 years ago for $185,000. It's now "worth" over $400,000.
The only homes in that price range here are an hour away from where I work.
I know a karate instructor that just bought a 2br 2ba house for 40k, in Tucumcari new mexico
There is affordable housing out there, but you really have to search, and you have to be flexible.
I'm not saying there isn't a shortage or that prices are inflated. The problem needs fixing.
Very true, if I could work remotely I could easily afford a good size home just a little out of the DFW area.
What if switched jobs, even to a different line of work. DFW, and all of metro Texas is pretty expensive.
I spent most of my career in Houston. We bought a lot of expensive houses and expensive cars. Honestly I never expected to live this long. I really wish I would have stashed money away to live the life I'm living now.
Eat the rich.
I'm fine with just throwing them in a wood chipper, personally.
Feet first, of course.
We could study the psychological effects of watching one's limbs being fed into a wood chipper.
Y'know...for science.
Would be ok with that too!
With some fava beans and a nice Chianti.
I'm a Boomer myself (born in 1964) and this maybe the first legitimate occasion I've had to say "Okay, Boomer."
Out of touch.
Feels good, doesn't it? š
God this guy is so out of touch
I work 60 hours a week and had to move an hour outside the city to find a townhouse I could afford. And I'm one of the lucky ones.
Dave Ramsey is a joke. Anyone who knows the basics of personal finance knows he has no idea what he's talking about and gives advice that is downright statistically incorrect (e.g. his 8% rule nonsense).
Yes, and that's just the start. He preaches against bankruptcy, but he himself declared bankruptcy in 1988. He claims Christianity but has been sued by female ex-employees (one was fired for being pregnant by a guy she was not married to, another was fired for coming out as gay) and is a fully batshit insane covid denier.
And while he preaches this "nObOdY wAnTs To WoRk AnYmOrE" shit, Wikipedia lists his personal value at $55 million as of 2018, which, presumably, he would never have been able to get near if he'd repaid his own debts back in 1988 instead of declaring bankruptcy like the hypocritical fuck he is.
Broadly, I wonder if these folks have no memory for how they were regarded.
The silent generation was broadly characterized as all being lazy beatniks.
The boomers were all characterized as being lazy hippies.
Of course gen xers, millennials, and z have all had their turn.
Every generation broadly bemoans the laziness of the young generation. I recall reading someone who sampled media going back to 19th century, repeatedly finding the "young folks are lazy" rhetoric that is always present.
Some of the earliest Roman historians (like way, way back in the early Republic, before they even did any conquering) used to bemoan the laziness and 'softness' of the current generation compared to the past. Thinking the previous generations were better is a human tradition older than any other aspect of civilization
Socrates complained that the invention of widespread writing would make people lazy and forgetful, because they'd just write everything down, rather than remembering it orally.
I don't know. I think most millenials are aware Gen Z got fucked the hardest. For the most part I think we all have a common enemy in boomers.
For the most part I think we all have a common enemy in boomers.
For the love of all that's right, stop letting them divide us into camps, so that we fight each other, instead of them.
There are plenty of Boomers out there who don't like the raw deal that the latest gens are having to deal with right now.
Not everything files into neat little category boxes.
Thank you!!
It's easier to piss on the ones below you.
Oh but it's super-entertaining to punch up to boomers
Go fuck yourself dave
Yeah bruh, a 1500sf house in my hood costs $1.4M. You can get a tear down for like maybe $900K.
I work 9 hours a day you fuck.
Dave Ramsey is a shitheel. His attitude toward money is obsessive and not compatible with healthy relationships or families. I would not be surprised if he were to die completely alone and unloved.
Or if he keeps talking like this in public; against a wall
I hereby encourage anyone encountering him to slam him as well.
Literally though. If possible, off the top of a cage and through a table, but at least a decent scoop slam.
Buh gawd
Then Randy Savage breaks out the steel chair, right?
In an ideal world :)
Dave Ramsey hates poor people. Itās my opinion that they remind him that his math doesnāt make sense.
What he actually means:
They need to start taking out loans so I can continue to make easy money.
It's people like this that have rotted our societies. They want all our wealth to be stretched out in easy to target debt.
I get the need to shit on him, but you're kind of revealing that you have no clue who this guy is. His whole thing has been pretty firmly anti-loan and pro-savings.
His philosophy is bullshit and hasn't been compatible with the current economical climate in 20+ years.
That's fine, but saying he wants people to be in debt is kind of an absurd claim.
His own claims contradict his viewpoint and whatever the advice he is pilferring is to "move out and buy your own home". Only way anybody with a normal wage can afford a home is via going into debt forever.
Nobody is going to get their own apartment or home without a loan, at least not anyone whom this is directed to. I don't know him, I don't want to know about him, I'm only criticizing his message. If what you say is true, he also seems to be someone who contradicts himself as well because staying with family is a great way to avoid needless loans, costs, and liabilities that consumer culture tries to instill (specially when their parents get old enough to become extremely dependent and susceptible to scammers). Not only did I not know about him, but you are not painting a great picture of him if he seems to be that inconsistent.
Maybe they deserve some sort of wall?
You know, as a memorial?
I'm at my parents house for various reasons, and I was actually thinking of moving out this year to be closer to my friends.
And then I had a seizure. And my parents and my sister were instrumental in calling 911 and making sure I didn't end falling to the ground painfully. They stuck with me in the hospital, and have been incredibly supportive. State law doesn't even let me drive for 6 months, so they've helped immensely with all that. I don't think I would've even known I had a seizure if not for them, and I couldn't have taken the right corrective measures for my health.
So, from the very bottom of my heart -- fuck you Dave Ramsey. Go fuck yourself and shove a rusty cactus up your ass. I'd call him a cunt (which I do not do lightly), but he lacks the warmth and the depth to be one.
Be safe man, hoping for you that it was just a one off seizure and you don't have a recurrence. You don't want to deal with full blown epilepsy. My sister has adult onset epilepsy that they can't really get under control. She can't drive anymore, has to wear a helmet any time she's on her feet, and with the ever-changing med cocktail she gets prescribed, it really affects her mental state and mood.
It seems like it was just a one off. There doesn't seem to be anything clearly wrong neurologically, and my blood sugar was incredibly low at the time. I'm also apparently predisposed to getting seizures at low blood sugar from a condition I have, I was on a medicine at the time which lowered my seizure threshold, and I think another medicine was artificially lowering my blood sugar too. So it was just the perfect storm.
I hope things turn around for your sister :/. That's absolutely awful. I'm incredibly fortunate, but for a while it was possible that could've been me. I hope there's a miracle cure out there to help.
Iām glad your family had your back, a lot of people canāt do so, and weāre facing generational collapses.
Oh I'm very fortunate. My parents are overbearing but they let me stay without rent and my mom still cooks for us. I'm incredibly lucky, and I wish everyone could fall back on their family like this.
There's a big problem facing the collective generation, and I sure as hell will help however I can.
Glad they were able to help you out.
Thank you!
He is the embodiment of cringe.
The man is an egomaniac
Has finance guru Dave Ramsey looked at the cost of housing compared to what working people earn? It's very different now than it was when the boomers were able to buy houses on the income of a single entry-level wage earner per household.
One wonders whether 'finance gurus' aren't just out-of-touch boomers any more
Interest rates just shot way the fuck up too. And while they were really good around 2021 a lot of folks were still struggling from being out of work
In every thread like this I have to show up and just say: I have four part-jobs and work every day of the week and I can't afford a house. It's so frustrating to literally be working all the time, have no shot at the American dream anyway, and see privileged fucks like this guy claim I'm not working at all.
10-hour days working my ass off in a technical "skilled" job to come home to a rented 1B1BR and entitled freaks like this still want to ignore their privileged life and throw shade. Fuck Dave Ramsey and fuck the greedy companies making record profits while also not paying their workers enough.
Dude thinks you can pull 8% a year from your retirement and be fine. Everything he says should be disregarded.
Iāve worked with a number of financial people, and if they talk for free, generally thatās what theyāre worth to pay them.
Clearly he is awful and should die in a fire, however I have reached my limit on news stories about how these modern 'generations' are affected differently than other 'generations.' It's a bullshit classification that does not exist in real life and I am tired of hearing manufactured news stories about it. People are people, and we need to all try to get along and help each other. No one is ever thinking about what generation someone else might be part of.
Set him up with a whiteboard and feed him actual, real figures and watch him fail to explain how it would be possible to do what heās claiming.
No financial gifts or inheritances from parents to use as a deposit, no magical income that comes from starting a business, no magical windfalls from putting house deposit savings into the stock market, just regular old income and student debt.
If he canāt do this, he should be ignored by the financial media.
Hereās a little graph I whipped up. Dave Ramsay was born in Nashville, in 1960. So he would have been a little too young to buy in 1975, but you get the general idea.
Add to that, house prices have doubled since 2015. That's a decade old at this point.
He's just going to say invest in stocks to amplify your income.
Dave Ramsey can buy a house because he doesn't work.
"... seven jobs." Is the completion of that quote.
Just get a small loan of a million dollars
Ramsey did not get rich from a $1 million loan.
He got rich by having $1.2 million in loans. Declaring bankruptcy, then building a financial media empire that teaches people to get rich by avoiding all debt; buying his books; attending his classes; and investing with financial advisors whom his organization carefully vets to assure that their kickback checks clear.
Yeah isn't Dave Ramsey the guy who's financial advice basically amounts to "don't rack up credit card debt and regularly put money in a savings account"?
Which like, yeah, that's not bad advice my any means, but anyone with two brain cells to rub together can tell you that
Yeah, I'll confess to not bother looking too deep into his stuff, but I occasionally see an exchange where someone asked for advice and it is always the exact exchange over and over:
"I make minimum wage but I just had to buy a 90 thousand dollar truck and an having a hard time with finances"
"You shouldn't have bought that truck, get rid of it and don't borrow money like that"
Like why would any vaguely functional human ask that same question when they have to already know the answer. I'm wagering that most of the "questions" are fake. I just can't believe there are that many people that wouldn't already know his answer if they vaguely know of him.
His advice is simple, but a lot of people can't figure it out by themselves. His radio show is pretty good, because he really addresses the emotional side to finances. The other personalities are garbage though.
I was referring to Trump on this one.
Respectfully, Dave Ramsey can suck my whole ass.
No respect. I wouldn't let him. That's reserved for peeps I like.
But he can suck.... Wait...
He can go have coitus with himself. And even that's too good for him.
Cut him some slack, the silver spoon up his ass he was born with is surely causing some pretty incredible irritation after all these years - can't expect him to think clearly all the time.
And this is why he gives garbage financial advice. I've known several people who used their time living at home to build up a nest egg for a down payment.
Chop, chop, chop goes the guillotine.
I have heard that the younger generations just want to bang on the drum all day.
Good. I hope you have to decide between caviar and avocado toast because you donāt have the money for both because of this you silver spoon in the ear goon.
Neither does he...
There are some people this world would be better off without.
something something boot straps...
It's hard to get a job, man.
Hot take incoming...
Another daily "Eat the Rich" post.
There's too much emotion on this topic to be able to have a serious and honest conversation about it (either/both ways).
Like with everything else that has to do with human beings, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
And yeah, I know, "Centrist, kill him!!!1!!". But seriously, neither extreme has it 100% right.
Fix the supply of available new homes to purchase so that the costs come down, and stop just sitting on the couch bitching and moaning and go earn the money to buy the houses at the cheaper prices (and while you're off the couch, contact your elected reps and tell them to fix the housing shortage).
It's the earning enough money part that's difficult. We're not getting paid commensurate to our value because what used to be skimmed off the top of the value we produce is now being gouged out in big, ragged chunks.
--Privileged bitching alert--
I have three science degrees, ending in MSc, and my wife has two business degrees ending in BBA. They're all functional, i.e., no one fucked up and went for a different field. We have over $100k in student debt between us. We're highly educated professionals in senior positions in our respective fields. We also live in a high cost of living area.
When my parents were our ages, neither had a degree and, accordingly, no student debt. My father neither graduated from high school nor had a GED. He actually worked in the same field as me, in a position several levels junior to where I'm at now. My mother worked in a field shockingly similar to my wife's, also junior to where my wife is now. They lived in an extremely low cost of living area. Adjusted for inflation, they made approximately $35k more a year than we do now and had vastly lower living expenses.
We can't keep up when wages are depressed and costs are inflated. If my wife and I had the same conditions as our parents, we'd be absolutely killing it financially. Instead, despite being financially responsible, we're currently debating retiring on time or having a kid. We can't have both. Yay.
The kicker is there's absolutely no good reason we shouldn't have economic conditions at least similar to my parent's generation at this stage in our lives. We just make less money, despite actually creating more value per hour, because business owners, shareholders, and the c suite are making more than ever and it's collectively bleeding us dry.
P.s. this comment helped me realize my wife and I have professionally turned into my parents. Gross!
I know it's not a comfortable thought, and it'd be nice if we didn't have to, but you considered moving to a lower cost of living area (whether its an hour from your current job, if the +2 hours daily makes it worthwhile) or finding a job in a state with lower cost of living where your skills are in demand?
If you make 100k/yr and 90% of your income goes to necessities, then it makes fiscal sense to take a paycut to 70k/yr when your necessities only take 40ā of your income.
It's nice to live in nice places, and moving and leaving your family/friends behind is a horrible thing to have to do, but it doesn't have to be forever and this is a matter of survival.
A good read, your comment was. /yoda
Itās the earning enough money part thatās difficult. Weāre not getting paid commensurate to our value because what used to be skimmed off the top of the value we produce is now being gouged out in big, ragged chunks.
I agree, totally. If the price of goods don't go down, then the incomes earned must go up. But we (assuming Americans for this comment) live in a society where its ok for a company to "charge whatever the market will bear", they have no insentives to 'take care' of their fellow citizens. So then individuals have to fight harder/smarter for more income.
The other side of that equation is lower the costs of goods, which in this case is housing. There's currently a weird conjunction of shortage of housing and real estate corporations buying up all available housing to rent that is causing the pricing woes. The latter reminds me of how there was a shortage of computer GPUs for gamers to purchase at a reasonable price, in the recent past, and the market did not correct (much) because it didn't have to, no competition pressure.
When I mention contacting your elected representative, its for things like to talk to them about lowering the price of goods by enacting laws to prevent monopolistic behavior and promote competition. Right now those reps are not doing that because they are getting paid NOT to do that by the companies. Who you elect to office really does matter in the long run, and even moreso your active participation in the process.
The kicker is thereās absolutely no good reason we shouldnāt have economic conditions at least similar to my parentās generation at this stage in our lives.
Well, you're right, and you're wrong at the same time.
You are right that if Capitialism was working optimally the market would be saturated with product and competition would keep pricing down. But we don't have that, since we rely on goverment to regulate 'bad behavior' Capitalism, and they are not doing that right now.
But at the same time you're wrong, as Capitalism is not a guarantee, its a variance, its random(ish), and there are no guarantees that the good market that exists today will exist thirty years from now. Its one of the reasons that IMO Capitalism kind of sucks (as practiced today), for the welfare and happiness of all human beings.
āPrivileged bitching alertā
My personal story was from being a high-school dropout who had to go find work, to being a very poor "rich" homeowner person today. I lived very frugally at first (really cut down on having meals delivered to you, etc. etc.), and over time my money 'snowballed' (there really is truth to that strategy). So I know its possible to overcome any market situation, but its definately not easy, and it takes a toll on you, both body and spirit.
P.s. this comment helped me realize my wife and I have professionally turned into my parents. Gross!
The other day I was visting my 30's son, and he was in the kitchen yelling at his fiance for where some cooking ingredient was (it wasn't angry yelling, just for volume, as she was at the other side of the house). And then he stops, turns his head away from the kitchen pantry cabinet to look squarely at me sitting on the couch nearby, and says the exact same thing you said, "I've turned into my parents." I won't lie, I laughed my ass off, and felt good inside a little bit, in a misery loves company ironic comedic parental revenge sort of way. "Its the 'Circle of Life', bay-bbeeee!". We both laughed.
Bottom line, you just gotta surround yourself with loved ones and ride out the bad storms, and seek happiness where you can, day-by-day. And learn to fish, and not just ask to be given fish all the time (unless you're really in trouble). Oh, and try to pay things forward. When things are better for your neighbors, they tend to end up being better for you too.
Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.
Funny how hot takes are often the nuanced, grounded in reality takes. I guess that's what makes them spicy... people like things that confirm their beliefs and insecurities, and the truth is one of the most disturbing things for a lot of people to hear.
People's default setting is to stay in their bubbles, yes. But I'm hoping that we can actually get people to talk through the issue in an honest non-emotional way, and see if any resolution could be had, vs. what we get now, the repeated daily posts of raw emotion to enhance conflict and prevent good discussion.
If you're not aware of it, LessWrong is a good forum for enhancing your knowledge via discussion in a rational way. Unfortunately the majority don't want logical discussion, as there's no direct benefit to them in the short-term and it's much harder to think that way and you'll be excluded from your ingroup because you're going against the grain.
You can lead a horse to water, you can't make them think deeply about 'boring' things.
If youāre not aware of it, LessWrong is a good forum for enhancing your knowledge via discussion in a rational way.
Thank you. I had not heard of it before, I'll check it out.
You can lead a horse to water, you canāt make them think deeply about āboringā things.
You might be right. But at the end of the day, when everything goes to shit, at the very least I can honestly look into the mirror and like what is looking back, someone who tried to make things better. /shrug
You might be right. But at the end of the day, when everything goes to shit, at the very least I can honestly look into the mirror and like what is looking back, someone who tried to make things better.
That's a good point. I need to stop being so jaded, it never leads to anything positive.
But it is hard, having fought time and time again to get a single person to halfway see the reason. I can only hope that a seed has been planted when I do, and eventually it will grow.
Thatās a good point. I need to stop being so jaded, it never leads to anything positive.
For sure its not easy, especially when there are those with a personal interest to have anarchy via psyops/propaganda, but its something we all really need to strive for.
But it is hard, having fought time and time again to get a single person to halfway see the reason. I can only hope that a seed has been planted when I do, and eventually it will grow.
That's all we can do really. That, and participate, again for no other reason than for self-respect. Any extra good that comes out of that is just a bonus.
GreaterWrong is a nicer way to read LessWrong, IMO.
GreaterWrong is a nicer way to read LessWrong, IMO.
Thanks for that too.
Damn, you're really sending me down the rabbit hole. š¤ š
Centrist, kill him
Oh, look... a "centrist" has shown up to lick boots in public.
Yawn.
Centrist, kill him
Oh, lookā¦ a ācentristā has shown up to lick boots in public.
Yawn.
Not that there's anything wrong with being a centrist, but for the record, I'm a 70's/80's liberal. But you do you (for real, or for the /s's).
Iām a 70ās/80ās liberal.
So you've always been a right-winger. No surprises here.
Not that thereās anything wrong with being a centrist,
Yes, there is. Lots. If you are "in-between" two right-wing ideology you are still a right-winger - ie, an apologist for and/or functionary of powerful elites.
Iām a 70ās/80ās liberal.
So youāve always been a right-winger. No surprises here.
I guarantee you that a 70's/80's right-winger would not consider a 70's/80's liberal a right-winger.
Personally I'm still pissed off at Reagan for calling ketchup a food group.
Not that thereās anything wrong with being a centrist,
Yes, there is. Lots. If you are āin-betweenā two right-wing ideology you are still a right-winger - ie, an apologist for and/or functionary of powerful elites.
That's a very narrow and unwise way to see the reality of things, but again, you do you. But I got to warn you, raw rage won't fix things, it just destroy things.
Centrists are citizens too, and your blind anger can't magically make them disappear. We need consensus on things that all citizens can agree to, and abide by.
I guarantee you that a 70ās/80ās right-winger
Do you always defer your opinion to right-wingers? What a "centrist" thing to do - and I wish I was being sarcastic.
Thatās a very narrow and unwise way
Considering that you, up until now, didn't understand how deeply your world-view has been dictated by right-wing ideology, perhaps it's best that you don't throw words such as "narrow" and "unwise" around too much, okay?
But I got to warn you, raw rage wonāt fix things,
Neither does appeasement - no matter how you justify it.
Centrists are citizens too,
So are serial rapists and parasite billionaires. What's your point?
We need consensus
No thanks... I'm not comfortable with slavery and genocide - no matter how you justify it.
You're definately on a mission, I'll give you that. lol
Aren't we all?
Some moreso than others. š
I actually have money in the bank and no debt because of that guy, Reflect on yourself.
Sure, but you are a sample size of 1. Consider the rest of the world. Reflect on reality dummy.
We really need to start eating the parasites that talk like this. This fucking shit stain has never worked a day in it's pathetic little life.
Daddy gave him all he's got and yet it's my fault my dad was a poor artist and died young?
eat my whole asshole Ramsey
It's always people born to wealth who feel the most entitlement.
Itās because they are taught about personal property and ownership in a very different way.
Dude went bankrupt in the 80s.
Do you have any recipes for cooking human flesh, since you espouse cannibalism? I'm just wondering if you're prepared to practice what you preach.
I don't think you need specific recipes for cooking human flesh, I would think any recipe used for pork would be pretty 1 to 1
What part of that says "got his money from his dad"?
It says he sold property to put himself through school at age 18.
He's born to real estate developers, probably helps tremendously with connections
Yeah people will hear stories like that and think go-getter, and its like even if it wasnāt a tee ball job, tell an 18 year old off the street to reproduce that outcome with no connections or cash, its not happening.
My dude what 18 year old do you know that owns property?
He was a real estate agent. It doesn't say he owned property at 18.
You know real estate agents don't own the properties they sell, right?
Don't worry, eventually your parents will die and you'll be able to live in the whole house not just the basement.
$90 trillion great wealth transfer. As if that money is going into the hands of people who arenāt already obscenely wealthy to begin with.
Also the the boomers with any wealth are going to live a lot longer. My boomer momās mom was 91 when she died, the only reason my mom is solvent is because she inherited and sold grandmaās house.
If my mom lives that long Iāll be in my mid 60s and my brother in his 50s. Iām a late Gen Xer btw.
So the timeline is at least 15-20 more years.
Subscription services will be like "sorry it's $1k per extra seat now"
This is what neoliberalism and capitalism wants the younger generations to believe, but a large percentage of that wealth will be stolen via health care and similar predatory, exploitative systems.
And do you think the inflation caused solely by greed might be related? They need to capture that money now before it is inherited.
Reverse mortgage enters the chat.
This. My grandparents were well off and set up a trust for me and my brother.
It wasnāt much. And then all of it went into her nursing home when the dementia got so bad we couldnāt care for her ourselves anymore.
And the rich got richer
Whatever isn't sold off for long term care, which won't be much.
This only counts if your deceased parents have any wealth to transfer.
Trickle down economics in a trenchcoat.
Only if you donāt have to sell the house beforehand in order to be able to afford a nursing home for your parents
Dave Ramsey sounds like someone who has forgotten what happened last time.
They haven't forgotten. They bought the cops. Now what do we do?
ACAB.
Pitchforks to dinner forks.
They cannot arrest or kill the entire working class, pitchforks or not. I mean, they could, but then who would work for them and make them richer? They need us and it's going to be a very painful reminder when we remind them, one way or another.
Slavery is allowed if youāre in prison, so that takes care of the work part.
grasshoppers vs antz
We should have reminded them decades ago. Like in the 90ās when they started shipping jobs overseas for cheaper labor.
Now? Good luck convincing people to bother instead of just doing whatever the mainstream media tells them to do.
This guy was born into a wealthy family and acts like he earned it all
They always do. Its frustrating and disgusting.
Big Trump energy.
I've been sick of him from the first moment I met an adherent. I mentioned how I like to avoid debt and pay it down early and the person said "Oh, so you listen to Dave Ramsey?" I confessed to having no idea who they were talking about, and they swore that I was being obtuse because I couldn't have come up with "interest sucks" on my own.
Those who are undereducated often canāt imagine that people can be truly brilliant.
Interest bad is far below brilliant
I guess we could be grading on a curve of people that view Ramsey as brilliant...
George Washington bemoaned debt
No just interest, compound interest is bad
Dave Ramsey can fuck himself. This is the same idiot that says you should give 10% of your money as tithe so that an invisible sky daddy doesn't send you to hell to burn for eternity.
While sitting on a golden throne he made from daddies money telling other's how to live.
Daddies money? He was literally bankrupt when he had his daughter and rebuilt everything.
Despite being born into money, he managed to take on so much risk that it society had to bail him out. Even so, I'm certain that his net worth after bankruptcy was significantly higher than the vast majority in gen-z.
Defending billionaires online is PATHETIC.
Do you know what bankruptcy does?
It doesnāt mean you have nothing. Itās designed to stop your creditors and protect what you have.
He didnāt start from scratch my dude.
Life experiences can still teach you something even if you don't start in the same place. If he has good advice it's good advice at the end of the day.
Add in another for trickle down, and the various forms the owner class use to divide us
Thanks, I was gonna post this if someone hadn't.
We should teach the millionaires to fear again
I've always made good money, and got some good advice when I started my first job to just always put aside 10% for saving, and put that into ira/401k. I'm in my 40s now and a millionaire. I still have to work and will until retirement age.
I know I'm lucky, but you're really barking up the wrong tree if you think simply having a million dollars makes you bad person. I'm just a saver.
These days, I don't bat an eye at a seven figure or even low-mid eight figure millionaire. That level of wealth is attainable through individual means (hard work, saving, diligent investing, etc) and probably a significant amount of luck. It's once you start getting into the mid to upper 8-9 figure and then billionaires where there is no way they achieved that wealth without exploitation and all the other accompanying things these people perpetrate.
Low 8 figures is my in laws. They are both doctors and busted their butts throughout their career. They could have done better had they invested better, but they still have obviously done well for themselves.
Ok then let's teach the billionaires to fear again.
Too high. How about 100 million?
Done
Or you can start saving and investing when you're young and be a millionaire when you retire. Compound interest is magic.
Saving what, exactly? The problem is that people arent able to maintain a standard of living, meaning they can't certainly can't save.
Or in simpler terms, things are becoming so expensive that they are forced to decrease their standard of living to meet their needs. This isn't a personal finance issue.
Why don't you buy 4 houses, you rent 3 and live in one. You can ask your parents for the capital of you don't have it
^^^/s
Question is, was that standard of living with in their means in the first place, Americans are in 1 trillion of credit card debt. That's insane to me, we have a spending problem that is now seemingly worse because everything is expensive.
When you're already more or less locked in to a lifestyle and then hit with record inflation, not everyone is going to just cancel their lives and live like a pauper, especially families. Yes many people are grossly irresponsible with credit card debt, but that isn't the story for everyone. You'd have to be living under a rock to not see how insanely expensive life has become in the last few years. Sure people can sell off all of their possessions and move to Nebraska, but that isn't a reasonable solution.
I hear yah, personally I cancelled a bunch of streaming apps, making all my food and coffee at home and been hitting thrift stores and estate sales for things I need. I know shits expensive, my car is a 2006 and it eats gas but I'm not falling for the new car trap.
People have done all of what you have mentioned here but still living paycheck to paycheck. They did it because they already know they can't afford stuff. Now they're starting to stop eating healthy too. You going to claim vegetables are luxury? Fuck you if you do.
Grow micro greens and tomatoes indoors. Lights are cheap af.
Do you know what the majority of debt in this country is? Health care.
Get sick, go broke.
Theyāre using credit cards to buy essentials like groceries and gas.
We donāt have a spending problem, we have a wage problem. And people like you blaming the poor for the circumstances that people like you put them in is gross
That sounds like we have a Health cost problem. No reason for some meds to cost so much. We also get meds advertised to us, so they spend some money on that instead of lowering prices. Our health system I agree sucks.
No thanks? Why would i be miserable right now and happy long after I'm no longer able to enjoy life? Unless you think we're on the cusp of curing aging or something.
This is a really cute concept. Many people don't have an extra $5 a day. Do you know what you get when you invest $5 a day over 12 years at a 4% interest rate? It's not a million dollars.
About 28000 dollars. Even with a super safe investment that gives you 4%. S&p is like 10% a year. In that case (assuming you lose 1% to the market) you would have 36k.
If you do that over 40 years (25 to 65) you have 640k.
4%?!? where are you getting 4%?? Last time I looked at CD rates it was like 1.2%
You need to look again. I have a 5% standard savings account right now. Fed rates are very high right now.
yeah the rates are way better than last time i looked! gonna have to put some savings into good use.
...what's the point of becoming a millionaire when I no longer have the same energy as I used to when I could still enjoy things?
Because you're still going to want to live and do shit when you're older. And you'll pay for it in the future with what you do now.
Unless I die tomorrow and never get to use all the money I suffered for now to use later.
Donāt get me wrong, itās a balancing act. But thereās no promise Iāll even make it to retirement. So Iām going to enjoy my now, just in case.
I thought like that in my 20s.
So is compounding health problems. Fuck retirement. Live now. Eat billionaires.
And then not be eligible for government insurance because you have too much money and go bankrupt paying for medication. Plus the million other little cuts and stabs you will take. Your kids had to go to higher ed and if you don't help them they can't. Someone tripped on your property and sued you.
What I have learned is this: invest in what can't be taken away by a financial group or their judicial lackseys. Your skillset, property that has complex financial structure, your tools, your family, your reputation.
Your bank doesn't want you custom laptop but you with your knowledge have income with it. Your insurance company doesn't want your house that has crazy agreements about who owns it that would take a generation of lawyers to sort out. Your government doesn't want your brother-in-law who lives abroad and runs a farm you helped buy. The guy suing you doesn't want your professional network. What those parasites want is money without effort. So only own the stuff that requires effort to use.
It's not that they don't work, it's that their employers (boomers own the companies) don't want to pay them
He knows this. I used to listen to his show. And in all my time listening to him, he never took on a caller who was making nine bucks an hour and struggling to make ends meet. His most frequent type of caller is a straight late twenties couple who make $140k a year, who owe maybe $25k in credit cards, and whose obvious answer to fixing the problem is to sell the thousand dollar car payment for something more basic and eat out less often. Because he knows if minimum wage workers get past the screeners, there's nothing he can do to help. That's a systemic problem and he knows he's part of it. What's he gonna tell them? Go get a better job? Cool. If everyone does that, there won't be any of those jobs for 90% of them, one, and two, there won't be anyone working those important low wage jobs. Someone's gotta flip the burgers. Someone's gotta stock the shelves. The problem is systemic. And the answer is fuck the rich.
I literally just watched yesterday a 28 year old lady with over 100k in student debt on minimum wage.
It's not that I've been dealt a losing hand, it's that my generation wasn't dealt a hand at all, and were cussed out when we asked why the dealer left us out.... Then they told us we lost the game because we were too lazy to buy our own cards to use, even though that's not how Poker works.
I lost all respect for Ramsey when I came across a video of him saying he wouldn't take a 0% interest million dollar loan. His opinions on finance are outrageous and dumb.
His whole thing is being anti-debt which is probably good for some people, but some people already have no debt
Yea. I have managed to never carried debt. Without that, whatās this guy got to offer me? In fact, the only thing the guy has to offer is the simplest financial advice there is: spend less than you earn.
But then a poor person comes along and says they canāt and his only advice is āearn more moneyā. Because itās that easy, obv.
The guy is an out of touch chode who had some privileged upper middle class kid think he was the financial messiah once for saying āuse a budgetā and let that go to his head.
For some people "use a budget" is revolutionary advice. Most people don't literally track every dollar they spend, although apps and software make it much easier now.
Some middle class and wealthy people make a decent amount of money but spend it all on leasing a few luxury cars and going on vacation. These are the people who "budgeting" works for.
They literally cut back on eating out and save $500 - $1000 per month ("cut back", not eliminate). They end a lease and save an extra $1000. They use this money to pay off their $50K credit card debt and it's eliminated in less than 3 years.
Exactly. Thatās who his advice is for, but he markets himself as a guru to the poor and they gobble his bullshit right up and spend all their money on his financial peace university thatās just a book full of anecdotes of wealthy people learning how to do what the poors have been forced to do all along.
True. Most poor people are pretty good at managing money because they are forced to. They just don't have any money to manage.
Thing is, this advice is useless to anyone who straight up has no money and the rich legitimately don't understand that situation.
Debt comes with interest. If you don't have to pay interest it's free money.
It's only free money if you invest it in a way that allows you to make a return on it. If someone hands you an interest free loan and you blow it on an expensive car that actually goes down in value the second you take it off the lot, you're losing money. That said in the right circumstances debt is an extremely useful tool. But he's probably mostly talking to the people who don't know how to use it that way.
An interest free loan is something you take 10 out of 10 timesā¦the reason is simple: even in the worst of times you can accrue more than 0% interest on money.
Right now, with current interest rates, if you could get an interest-free million dollar loan, youād essentially be able to make $50k a year out of it by just sticking it in an online savings account.
Even if they demanded that you pay all of the money back in a month, you should still take it, because youād be netted the interest you could get out of the money in the month, and then return all of the money back to them.
Anyone saying they wouldnāt take an interest-free million dollar loan is a complete moron.
I'm well aware that that's true if you're financially responsible and educated in investment. I don't think his advice is aimed at that group of people. Also in the real world people don't hand out 0% interest loans without strings very often?
Educated in investment? Even a regular savings account will net you some return on a million dollars.
You can also be financially irresponsible in every other aspect of your life and just plunk the million dollars into a savings account and take the free money.
Of course, it's a hypothetical which is why it makes his answer as stupid as it is. He's too absolute on debt and that makes him a clown, and that's coming from someone like myself who paid off a mortgage with a ~4% interest rate in 3 years.
They used to for cars, but obviously that's a depreciating asset or w/e so it's not really the same thing.
Yeah that's the definition of strings attached. If they're giving you a 0% interest loan on a car, you can assume the profit margin on the sale is large enough to cover the interest, especially since car companies often own the finance companies.
It's not free money. It's still debt, as you have to pay it back.
Then put it in TBills or a high yield savings account. The money will still be there when you need to pay and you'll have made interest on it the whole time.
Not having debt would have been nice, but itās kind hard when your parents shove you out the door at 17. I worked full time through college, shared an apartment with three other people, and ended up 50k to get a degree in a field that I can no longer work in (my state is currently covering up the murder of a transgender child, and as a fat hairy bearded man, I am legally required to piss in a stall next to teenage girls).
His advice works if youāre an upper middle class person with a supportive family. You canāt budget if you are making 12k a year.
What?
Nex.
Ah. It's sad I had to ask for clarification as to which one.
I'm pragmatic to a fault and so his advice often makes me cringe.
However, I still have respect for him.
First and foremost because he was the gateway for my wife actually caring about our finances. And so her realizing that we can make a lot more money in the long run by not recklessly spending it now I have to credit him for...I couldn't get through to her, but now she comes to me for most all financial advice.
However it's also because for a lot of people their relationship with money is more emotional than it is rational, and for them he is very good. Watching my wife go through the transformation gave me an appreciation for what he preaches, even if it isn't logically the best path, it's often the best path for a lot of people.
What is so bad about living with your parents? That's still the norm in many parts of the world. For some reason western countries, and especially America, have exaggerated the benefits of being financially independent, as if shared resources were some kind of failure.
I beg to differ. The only people who lose when we share resources are the capitalists.
I've got a few friends in their thirties who live with their parents and the whole family is very happy. And although my kids are only six and three, I can't imagine any reason why I wouldn't want them to continue living in my house for as long as they needed support.
We all need support. It's not a shame. It's an asset more valuable than property, imho.
you might be gay and have to move out, assuming they didn't throw you out as a teen. even if you're straight your parent's won't respect you as an adult if you live with them and impose restrictions on your lifestyle. you also have to appease them in whatever crazy shit they force on you because they can kuck you out if you refuse
Did that happen to you?
I'm a gen x, and I don't want to work. I mean really, who does? Who would rather work than spend time with their family and/or see the world? I work because I have to to survive.
People want to work if:
If you work to survive, there is no prospect to advance or do something fun/meaningful, then why the fuck should people want to work?
And Ramsey is kidding himself, is work is not that hard. So it's fucking rich coming from someone that peddle his shit to make money.
"want to work"? that's only for actual humans, you are a parasite leaching off the work of the people who are actually productive, the shareholders, and if they all go hide in a secret valley gated community the world will collapse as they invent a perpetomobile outside the "laws of nature" imposed by the government
(everything up to the perpetomobile is actually held beliefs among these people, just the laws of nature being enforced by the government is a bit of a gag)
I love working! ... when I'm self-employed. Knowing that what I'm doing is likely to actually make a difference for someone other than a rich fuck is incredibly motivating.
FTFT.
I like to imagine this means "fixed that for thee."
Dave "I fire people that have sex out of wedlock" Ramsey? Who cares what that religious nut have to say?
Dave Ramsey is one of those guys where you have to eat the fish but leave the bones.
A lot of what he teaches is really great, practical advice--aimed at people who really might not understand financial basics.
Things like budgeting, saving, investing in mutual funds, and avoiding debt like the plague. That's all fantastic financial advice. The whole "borrower is servant to the lender stuff pulled right out of the Bible is stuff that most on here would agree with. Debt is a way to force people into financial serfdom.
But occasionally he says stupid shit like this. And maybe it's taken out of context, but probably not. He always has advocated busting your ass to get out of debt and start saving. He calls it getting "gazelle" intense about it(basically saying banks, lenders, etc are lions trying to kill you). Again, not too far off from whatost people agree with.
So, he's advocated getting multiple jobs if you need to until you can right your financial ship.
But he's also an proponent of advocating for yourself and getting better jobs and ditching the second job as soon as you can. So I dunno. He says dumb stuff but he's also pretty practical overall. Like I said eat the fish, leave the bones.
His "no debt" spiel is a decade out of date. The red queen paradox applies here, most people need to run as fast as they can, just to stay in the same place.
The average house here has gone up in value 55 euros a day for the past decade, and rent has risen faster Unless you're already doing very well, you cant budget your way into buying a house anymore. Saving 55 euros a day for a decade means you're standing still, you need to MORE to actually get closer to buying property.
Again, that's 55 bucks a DAY, or 1650 a month, just keep pace. Dave Ramsey can fuck right off when it takes 32 hours at minimum just to stay as poor as you always were.
No debt has worked for me. I don't care for him and any of his advice, but getting out of debt has been great for me.
Going by your comments, you're hardly a struggling gen-z though. When you or I run in place, we're already miles ahead of those who can barely get off the starting line.
But you were in debt, and the example given of a home mortgage is pretty definitively a debt worth taking on, as rent and increasing housing costs will easily outpace accrued interest.
You should pay that debt down quickly, unless you're mortgage rate is crazy good and investment returns are crazy high, but that's not usual. But taking on a mortgage is about the only way you can get into owning a house except for being a trust fund baby.
Some people may have to suck it up and tolerate a car payment, of they can't afford a 6 to 9 thousands dollar car, because they need transportation to get to work, and any car cheaper than that will be very expensive to repair.
Carrying over any balance on a credit card? Yeah, that's always a terrible idea.
His no debt spiel is really only get a mortgage once you have no other debt.
The second job thing is interesting, it's like he doesn't understand that the economic situation of a society as a whole (generally a country) dictates what % of people can afford to have nice things.
As a result of that, if your society is in a bad economic situation it may very well be the case that even if everybody was working the same number of multiple jobs, advocating for themselves, and busting their butts, most of those people are still going to be in a shitty situation due to things entirely out of their control. Furthermore, the ones that got out of the shitty situation, even though they're doing all of the same things, only did it due to dumb luck / being in the right place at the right time.
"fiance guru" isn't a real job. Fight me.
They're a joke, they literally produce nothing. O I made one number bigger. Congrats you're a counter.
Finance guru vs. Jiu-jitsu guru...
You aren't working your way into home ownership in many cases unless you also work your way into a different locality as well.
I bought my small 2x2 condo for around 500k in 2020, it's now worth ~800k. Housing inflation is out of fucking control.
I'm moving into a house (renting) soon, and the owner bought it 8 years ago for $185,000. It's now "worth" over $400,000.
The only homes in that price range here are an hour away from where I work.
I know a karate instructor that just bought a 2br 2ba house for 40k, in Tucumcari new mexico
There is affordable housing out there, but you really have to search, and you have to be flexible.
I'm not saying there isn't a shortage or that prices are inflated. The problem needs fixing.
Very true, if I could work remotely I could easily afford a good size home just a little out of the DFW area.
What if switched jobs, even to a different line of work. DFW, and all of metro Texas is pretty expensive.
I spent most of my career in Houston. We bought a lot of expensive houses and expensive cars. Honestly I never expected to live this long. I really wish I would have stashed money away to live the life I'm living now.
Eat the rich.
I'm fine with just throwing them in a wood chipper, personally.
Feet first, of course.
We could study the psychological effects of watching one's limbs being fed into a wood chipper.
Y'know...for science.
Would be ok with that too!
With some fava beans and a nice Chianti.
I'm a Boomer myself (born in 1964) and this maybe the first legitimate occasion I've had to say "Okay, Boomer."
Out of touch.
Feels good, doesn't it? š
God this guy is so out of touch
I work 60 hours a week and had to move an hour outside the city to find a townhouse I could afford. And I'm one of the lucky ones.
Dave Ramsey is a joke. Anyone who knows the basics of personal finance knows he has no idea what he's talking about and gives advice that is downright statistically incorrect (e.g. his 8% rule nonsense).
Yes, and that's just the start. He preaches against bankruptcy, but he himself declared bankruptcy in 1988. He claims Christianity but has been sued by female ex-employees (one was fired for being pregnant by a guy she was not married to, another was fired for coming out as gay) and is a fully batshit insane covid denier.
And while he preaches this "nObOdY wAnTs To WoRk AnYmOrE" shit, Wikipedia lists his personal value at $55 million as of 2018, which, presumably, he would never have been able to get near if he'd repaid his own debts back in 1988 instead of declaring bankruptcy like the hypocritical fuck he is.
Broadly, I wonder if these folks have no memory for how they were regarded.
The silent generation was broadly characterized as all being lazy beatniks.
The boomers were all characterized as being lazy hippies.
Of course gen xers, millennials, and z have all had their turn.
Every generation broadly bemoans the laziness of the young generation. I recall reading someone who sampled media going back to 19th century, repeatedly finding the "young folks are lazy" rhetoric that is always present.
Some of the earliest Roman historians (like way, way back in the early Republic, before they even did any conquering) used to bemoan the laziness and 'softness' of the current generation compared to the past. Thinking the previous generations were better is a human tradition older than any other aspect of civilization
Socrates complained that the invention of widespread writing would make people lazy and forgetful, because they'd just write everything down, rather than remembering it orally.
The 2,500-Year-Old History of Adults Blaming the Younger Generation - https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/
I don't know. I think most millenials are aware Gen Z got fucked the hardest. For the most part I think we all have a common enemy in boomers.
For the love of all that's right, stop letting them divide us into camps, so that we fight each other, instead of them.
There are plenty of Boomers out there who don't like the raw deal that the latest gens are having to deal with right now.
Not everything files into neat little category boxes.
Thank you!!
It's easier to piss on the ones below you.
Oh but it's super-entertaining to punch up to boomers
Go fuck yourself dave
Yeah bruh, a 1500sf house in my hood costs $1.4M. You can get a tear down for like maybe $900K.
I work 9 hours a day you fuck.
Dave Ramsey is a shitheel. His attitude toward money is obsessive and not compatible with healthy relationships or families. I would not be surprised if he were to die completely alone and unloved.
Or if he keeps talking like this in public; against a wall
I hereby encourage anyone encountering him to slam him as well.
Literally though. If possible, off the top of a cage and through a table, but at least a decent scoop slam.
Buh gawd
Then Randy Savage breaks out the steel chair, right?
In an ideal world :)
Dave Ramsey hates poor people. Itās my opinion that they remind him that his math doesnāt make sense.
What he actually means:
It's people like this that have rotted our societies. They want all our wealth to be stretched out in easy to target debt.
I get the need to shit on him, but you're kind of revealing that you have no clue who this guy is. His whole thing has been pretty firmly anti-loan and pro-savings.
His philosophy is bullshit and hasn't been compatible with the current economical climate in 20+ years.
That's fine, but saying he wants people to be in debt is kind of an absurd claim.
His own claims contradict his viewpoint and whatever the advice he is pilferring is to "move out and buy your own home". Only way anybody with a normal wage can afford a home is via going into debt forever.
Nobody is going to get their own apartment or home without a loan, at least not anyone whom this is directed to. I don't know him, I don't want to know about him, I'm only criticizing his message. If what you say is true, he also seems to be someone who contradicts himself as well because staying with family is a great way to avoid needless loans, costs, and liabilities that consumer culture tries to instill (specially when their parents get old enough to become extremely dependent and susceptible to scammers). Not only did I not know about him, but you are not painting a great picture of him if he seems to be that inconsistent.
Maybe they deserve some sort of wall?
You know, as a memorial?
I'm at my parents house for various reasons, and I was actually thinking of moving out this year to be closer to my friends.
And then I had a seizure. And my parents and my sister were instrumental in calling 911 and making sure I didn't end falling to the ground painfully. They stuck with me in the hospital, and have been incredibly supportive. State law doesn't even let me drive for 6 months, so they've helped immensely with all that. I don't think I would've even known I had a seizure if not for them, and I couldn't have taken the right corrective measures for my health.
So, from the very bottom of my heart -- fuck you Dave Ramsey. Go fuck yourself and shove a rusty cactus up your ass. I'd call him a cunt (which I do not do lightly), but he lacks the warmth and the depth to be one.
Be safe man, hoping for you that it was just a one off seizure and you don't have a recurrence. You don't want to deal with full blown epilepsy. My sister has adult onset epilepsy that they can't really get under control. She can't drive anymore, has to wear a helmet any time she's on her feet, and with the ever-changing med cocktail she gets prescribed, it really affects her mental state and mood.
It seems like it was just a one off. There doesn't seem to be anything clearly wrong neurologically, and my blood sugar was incredibly low at the time. I'm also apparently predisposed to getting seizures at low blood sugar from a condition I have, I was on a medicine at the time which lowered my seizure threshold, and I think another medicine was artificially lowering my blood sugar too. So it was just the perfect storm.
I hope things turn around for your sister :/. That's absolutely awful. I'm incredibly fortunate, but for a while it was possible that could've been me. I hope there's a miracle cure out there to help.
Iām glad your family had your back, a lot of people canāt do so, and weāre facing generational collapses.
Oh I'm very fortunate. My parents are overbearing but they let me stay without rent and my mom still cooks for us. I'm incredibly lucky, and I wish everyone could fall back on their family like this.
There's a big problem facing the collective generation, and I sure as hell will help however I can.
Glad they were able to help you out.
Thank you!
He is the embodiment of cringe.
The man is an egomaniac
Has finance guru Dave Ramsey looked at the cost of housing compared to what working people earn? It's very different now than it was when the boomers were able to buy houses on the income of a single entry-level wage earner per household.
One wonders whether 'finance gurus' aren't just out-of-touch boomers any more
Interest rates just shot way the fuck up too. And while they were really good around 2021 a lot of folks were still struggling from being out of work
In every thread like this I have to show up and just say: I have four part-jobs and work every day of the week and I can't afford a house. It's so frustrating to literally be working all the time, have no shot at the American dream anyway, and see privileged fucks like this guy claim I'm not working at all.
10-hour days working my ass off in a technical "skilled" job to come home to a rented 1B1BR and entitled freaks like this still want to ignore their privileged life and throw shade. Fuck Dave Ramsey and fuck the greedy companies making record profits while also not paying their workers enough.
Dude thinks you can pull 8% a year from your retirement and be fine. Everything he says should be disregarded.
https://earlyretirementnow.com/2023/11/12/dave-ramsey-8-percent-withdrawal-rate/
Iāve worked with a number of financial people, and if they talk for free, generally thatās what theyāre worth to pay them.
Clearly he is awful and should die in a fire, however I have reached my limit on news stories about how these modern 'generations' are affected differently than other 'generations.' It's a bullshit classification that does not exist in real life and I am tired of hearing manufactured news stories about it. People are people, and we need to all try to get along and help each other. No one is ever thinking about what generation someone else might be part of.
Set him up with a whiteboard and feed him actual, real figures and watch him fail to explain how it would be possible to do what heās claiming.
No financial gifts or inheritances from parents to use as a deposit, no magical income that comes from starting a business, no magical windfalls from putting house deposit savings into the stock market, just regular old income and student debt.
If he canāt do this, he should be ignored by the financial media.
Hereās a little graph I whipped up. Dave Ramsay was born in Nashville, in 1960. So he would have been a little too young to buy in 1975, but you get the general idea.
Add to that, house prices have doubled since 2015. That's a decade old at this point.
He's just going to say invest in stocks to amplify your income.
Dave Ramsey can buy a house because he doesn't work.
"... seven jobs." Is the completion of that quote.
Just get a small loan of a million dollars
Ramsey did not get rich from a $1 million loan.
He got rich by having $1.2 million in loans. Declaring bankruptcy, then building a financial media empire that teaches people to get rich by avoiding all debt; buying his books; attending his classes; and investing with financial advisors whom his organization carefully vets to assure that their kickback checks clear.
Yeah isn't Dave Ramsey the guy who's financial advice basically amounts to "don't rack up credit card debt and regularly put money in a savings account"?
Which like, yeah, that's not bad advice my any means, but anyone with two brain cells to rub together can tell you that
Yeah, I'll confess to not bother looking too deep into his stuff, but I occasionally see an exchange where someone asked for advice and it is always the exact exchange over and over: "I make minimum wage but I just had to buy a 90 thousand dollar truck and an having a hard time with finances" "You shouldn't have bought that truck, get rid of it and don't borrow money like that"
Like why would any vaguely functional human ask that same question when they have to already know the answer. I'm wagering that most of the "questions" are fake. I just can't believe there are that many people that wouldn't already know his answer if they vaguely know of him.
His advice is simple, but a lot of people can't figure it out by themselves. His radio show is pretty good, because he really addresses the emotional side to finances. The other personalities are garbage though.
I was referring to Trump on this one.
Respectfully, Dave Ramsey can suck my whole ass.
No respect. I wouldn't let him. That's reserved for peeps I like.
But he can suck.... Wait...
He can go have coitus with himself. And even that's too good for him.
Cut him some slack, the silver spoon up his ass he was born with is surely causing some pretty incredible irritation after all these years - can't expect him to think clearly all the time.
And this is why he gives garbage financial advice. I've known several people who used their time living at home to build up a nest egg for a down payment.
Chop, chop, chop goes the guillotine.
I have heard that the younger generations just want to bang on the drum all day.
Good. I hope you have to decide between caviar and avocado toast because you donāt have the money for both because of this you silver spoon in the ear goon.
Neither does he...
There are some people this world would be better off without.
something something boot straps...
It's hard to get a job, man.
Hot take incoming...
Another daily "Eat the Rich" post.
There's too much emotion on this topic to be able to have a serious and honest conversation about it (either/both ways).
Like with everything else that has to do with human beings, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
And yeah, I know, "Centrist, kill him!!!1!!". But seriously, neither extreme has it 100% right.
Fix the supply of available new homes to purchase so that the costs come down, and stop just sitting on the couch bitching and moaning and go earn the money to buy the houses at the cheaper prices (and while you're off the couch, contact your elected reps and tell them to fix the housing shortage).
It's the earning enough money part that's difficult. We're not getting paid commensurate to our value because what used to be skimmed off the top of the value we produce is now being gouged out in big, ragged chunks.
--Privileged bitching alert--
I have three science degrees, ending in MSc, and my wife has two business degrees ending in BBA. They're all functional, i.e., no one fucked up and went for a different field. We have over $100k in student debt between us. We're highly educated professionals in senior positions in our respective fields. We also live in a high cost of living area.
When my parents were our ages, neither had a degree and, accordingly, no student debt. My father neither graduated from high school nor had a GED. He actually worked in the same field as me, in a position several levels junior to where I'm at now. My mother worked in a field shockingly similar to my wife's, also junior to where my wife is now. They lived in an extremely low cost of living area. Adjusted for inflation, they made approximately $35k more a year than we do now and had vastly lower living expenses.
We can't keep up when wages are depressed and costs are inflated. If my wife and I had the same conditions as our parents, we'd be absolutely killing it financially. Instead, despite being financially responsible, we're currently debating retiring on time or having a kid. We can't have both. Yay.
The kicker is there's absolutely no good reason we shouldn't have economic conditions at least similar to my parent's generation at this stage in our lives. We just make less money, despite actually creating more value per hour, because business owners, shareholders, and the c suite are making more than ever and it's collectively bleeding us dry.
P.s. this comment helped me realize my wife and I have professionally turned into my parents. Gross!
I know it's not a comfortable thought, and it'd be nice if we didn't have to, but you considered moving to a lower cost of living area (whether its an hour from your current job, if the +2 hours daily makes it worthwhile) or finding a job in a state with lower cost of living where your skills are in demand?
If you make 100k/yr and 90% of your income goes to necessities, then it makes fiscal sense to take a paycut to 70k/yr when your necessities only take 40ā of your income.
It's nice to live in nice places, and moving and leaving your family/friends behind is a horrible thing to have to do, but it doesn't have to be forever and this is a matter of survival.
A good read, your comment was. /yoda
I agree, totally. If the price of goods don't go down, then the incomes earned must go up. But we (assuming Americans for this comment) live in a society where its ok for a company to "charge whatever the market will bear", they have no insentives to 'take care' of their fellow citizens. So then individuals have to fight harder/smarter for more income.
The other side of that equation is lower the costs of goods, which in this case is housing. There's currently a weird conjunction of shortage of housing and real estate corporations buying up all available housing to rent that is causing the pricing woes. The latter reminds me of how there was a shortage of computer GPUs for gamers to purchase at a reasonable price, in the recent past, and the market did not correct (much) because it didn't have to, no competition pressure.
When I mention contacting your elected representative, its for things like to talk to them about lowering the price of goods by enacting laws to prevent monopolistic behavior and promote competition. Right now those reps are not doing that because they are getting paid NOT to do that by the companies. Who you elect to office really does matter in the long run, and even moreso your active participation in the process.
Well, you're right, and you're wrong at the same time.
You are right that if Capitialism was working optimally the market would be saturated with product and competition would keep pricing down. But we don't have that, since we rely on goverment to regulate 'bad behavior' Capitalism, and they are not doing that right now.
But at the same time you're wrong, as Capitalism is not a guarantee, its a variance, its random(ish), and there are no guarantees that the good market that exists today will exist thirty years from now. Its one of the reasons that IMO Capitalism kind of sucks (as practiced today), for the welfare and happiness of all human beings.
My personal story was from being a high-school dropout who had to go find work, to being a very poor "rich" homeowner person today. I lived very frugally at first (really cut down on having meals delivered to you, etc. etc.), and over time my money 'snowballed' (there really is truth to that strategy). So I know its possible to overcome any market situation, but its definately not easy, and it takes a toll on you, both body and spirit.
The other day I was visting my 30's son, and he was in the kitchen yelling at his fiance for where some cooking ingredient was (it wasn't angry yelling, just for volume, as she was at the other side of the house). And then he stops, turns his head away from the kitchen pantry cabinet to look squarely at me sitting on the couch nearby, and says the exact same thing you said, "I've turned into my parents." I won't lie, I laughed my ass off, and felt good inside a little bit, in a misery loves company ironic comedic parental revenge sort of way. "Its the 'Circle of Life', bay-bbeeee!". We both laughed.
Bottom line, you just gotta surround yourself with loved ones and ride out the bad storms, and seek happiness where you can, day-by-day. And learn to fish, and not just ask to be given fish all the time (unless you're really in trouble). Oh, and try to pay things forward. When things are better for your neighbors, they tend to end up being better for you too.
Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.
Funny how hot takes are often the nuanced, grounded in reality takes. I guess that's what makes them spicy... people like things that confirm their beliefs and insecurities, and the truth is one of the most disturbing things for a lot of people to hear.
People's default setting is to stay in their bubbles, yes. But I'm hoping that we can actually get people to talk through the issue in an honest non-emotional way, and see if any resolution could be had, vs. what we get now, the repeated daily posts of raw emotion to enhance conflict and prevent good discussion.
If you're not aware of it, LessWrong is a good forum for enhancing your knowledge via discussion in a rational way. Unfortunately the majority don't want logical discussion, as there's no direct benefit to them in the short-term and it's much harder to think that way and you'll be excluded from your ingroup because you're going against the grain.
You can lead a horse to water, you can't make them think deeply about 'boring' things.
Thank you. I had not heard of it before, I'll check it out.
Edit: This was an interesting read.
You might be right. But at the end of the day, when everything goes to shit, at the very least I can honestly look into the mirror and like what is looking back, someone who tried to make things better. /shrug
That's a good point. I need to stop being so jaded, it never leads to anything positive.
But it is hard, having fought time and time again to get a single person to halfway see the reason. I can only hope that a seed has been planted when I do, and eventually it will grow.
For sure its not easy, especially when there are those with a personal interest to have anarchy via psyops/propaganda, but its something we all really need to strive for.
That's all we can do really. That, and participate, again for no other reason than for self-respect. Any extra good that comes out of that is just a bonus.
That's a favorite of mine, and also a good way to show the honest, rational debate of LessWrong. Has "politics is the mind-killer" been a mind-killer?
GreaterWrong is a nicer way to read LessWrong, IMO.
Thanks for that too.
Damn, you're really sending me down the rabbit hole. š¤ š
Oh, look... a "centrist" has shown up to lick boots in public.
Yawn.
Not that there's anything wrong with being a centrist, but for the record, I'm a 70's/80's liberal. But you do you (for real, or for the /s's).
So you've always been a right-winger. No surprises here.
Yes, there is. Lots. If you are "in-between" two right-wing ideology you are still a right-winger - ie, an apologist for and/or functionary of powerful elites.
I guarantee you that a 70's/80's right-winger would not consider a 70's/80's liberal a right-winger.
Personally I'm still pissed off at Reagan for calling ketchup a food group.
That's a very narrow and unwise way to see the reality of things, but again, you do you. But I got to warn you, raw rage won't fix things, it just destroy things.
Centrists are citizens too, and your blind anger can't magically make them disappear. We need consensus on things that all citizens can agree to, and abide by.
Do you always defer your opinion to right-wingers? What a "centrist" thing to do - and I wish I was being sarcastic.
Considering that you, up until now, didn't understand how deeply your world-view has been dictated by right-wing ideology, perhaps it's best that you don't throw words such as "narrow" and "unwise" around too much, okay?
Neither does appeasement - no matter how you justify it.
So are serial rapists and parasite billionaires. What's your point?
No thanks... I'm not comfortable with slavery and genocide - no matter how you justify it.
You're definately on a mission, I'll give you that. lol
Aren't we all?
Some moreso than others. š
I actually have money in the bank and no debt because of that guy, Reflect on yourself.
Sure, but you are a sample size of 1. Consider the rest of the world. Reflect on reality dummy.